26 percent:
By on Jul 18th, 2007 at 11:03 am
26 percent:
Number of Americans who believe the country is “on the right track.” The new Reuters poll also finds that 66 percent of those surveyed “said the direction of economic policy was fair or poor, and 76 percent said U.S. foreign policy was headed in a fair or poor direction.” Bush’s approval rating is at just 34 percent.
UPDATE: A new Gallup Poll shows that the 26th quarter of Bush’s presidency, ending tomorrow, is “the worst he has had,” with string of sub-40 percent quarterly averages now exceeding the run that former President Nixon had leading up to to his resignation.
View Most Popular
Advertisement
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
Reports
In depth studies on select topics
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
how did they get the phone under the rock for those 26 percenters?!
July 18th, 2007 at 11:07 amSoooo, 34% is still in denial or just really, really stupid, I think both.
Didn’t know neanderthals had phones in their caves.
Butt Slush, CT_V1’s slurpy drink of choice.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:09 amRemember this can also be seen as
“Those Chrisitians think we should all be forced to go to church, and have their idiotic family values or be burnt at the stake” And since I still have my freedom from ALL STUPID FAIRY TALES. They are not too happy..
TP quotes way too many polls.
TP How about that article that said most outside insurgents came from Saudi Arabia???
July 18th, 2007 at 11:09 amWaiting for the inevitable but congress is at XX% approval.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:10 amAnd how did Bush get re-elected? Religious credulity. The faith-based mindset is to blame for us being stuck with this President. It’s time for a new enlightenment. Why should peoples’ religious beliefs be accorded special respect? We need more doubt and critical thinking and less faith and credulity in the electorate.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:12 amAnd how did Bush get re-elected? Religious credulity. The faith-based mindset is to blame for us being stuck with this President. It’s time for a new enlightenment. Why should peoples’ religious beliefs be accorded special respect? We need more doubt and critical thinking and less faith and credulity in the electorate.
Comment by simplicio — July 18, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Some people like a Left Behind-based foreign policy, ok?
July 18th, 2007 at 11:16 amparaphrased from South Park” So, you’re telling me that 1/4 of the country is retarded, and you have to make them happy?”
July 18th, 2007 at 11:17 amTP How about that article that said most outside insurgents came from Saudi Arabia???
i second that…
so disappointed - i don’t remember anyone last night
July 18th, 2007 at 11:18 ambringing that up in their speeches…
toasterhead sez:
The Rapture is not an exit strategy.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:18 amHave we forgotten that America was built from a religious perspective.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:18 am# 3 & # 5 —
It’s disheatening that you automatically call Bush’s ’supporters’ bible-thumping religious wing-nuts.
I can’t dispute that, necessarily, but being a Christian, I can say that it doesn’t automatically imply an abandonment of reason and sense.
I don’t come here to proselytize (like some) but in the spirit of tolerance, is it really necessary to bash any belief that you disagree with? I mean, you wouldn’t use the ‘N’ word or refer to homosexuals as ‘queers’, would you?
Just asking that you tone down the hate…leave that to the extreme right.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:19 amand the democrat congress ratings are even lower
July 18th, 2007 at 11:20 amSorry folk’s, I don’t think much about these poll’s any more..No one has ever called me about a poll on anything…I would bet only 5% of the entire world even like bull shit bush, the balance would like to see him behind bar’s..My guess the same figure’s on the econemy and the war..Only 5% would be in favor and that’s because they profit from it….Any one else with the 34% thinking, I have an entire 10,000 foot mountain to sell ya in Helena, Montana….LOL..Not..There is no 10,000 ft mountain in Helena just a whole lot of space and wind…Blessings
July 18th, 2007 at 11:23 amHave we forgotten that America was built from a religious perspective.
Comment by techie24chick
It’s called deism. One of the founders, Thomas Jefferson, actually took a bible and cut out all the stories of miracles. If a presidential candidate did that today, they would be unelectable. The word ‘God’ does not appear a single time in our Constitution. If America were designed to be a theocracy, God certainly would have made more of a showing in our founding document. Freedom of religion implies freedom FROM religion which is why we have separation of church and state (or at least used to).
For those of you who are concerned about the damage religious fundamentalists are doing to our country, please consider joining the Freedom From Religion Foundation, http://www.ffrf.org.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:23 amWhy should peoples’ religious beliefs be accorded special respect?
Comment by simplicio —
They shouldn’t be afforded ’special’ respect…just respect.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:23 amIn truth, Republicans in Congress have faired far worse than Democrats.
A Washington Post/ABC News poll, which recorded a 44 percent overall approval rating for Congress, showed a 54 percent approval rating for the majority “Democrats in Congress” and 39 percent approval rating for the minority “Republicans in Congress.” By contrast, the majority Republicans received approval ratings of 35 (October 8, 2006), 33 (May 15, 2006), 35 (November 2, 2005), and 42 (June 5, 2006) percent in Washington Post-ABC News polls during the previous Congress. The minority Democrats received 48, 39, 41, and 42 percent approval ratings in those respective polls.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:24 amHave we forgotten that America was built from a religious perspective.
Comment by techie24chick — July 18, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Yes, by radical right-wing regicidal terrorists, in fact.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:24 amAn even bigger majority, 83 percent, say the Democratic-controlled Congress is doing only a fair or poor job — the worst mark for Congress in a Zogby poll
July 18th, 2007 at 11:25 amHave we forgotten that America was built from a religious perspective.
Comment by techie24chick
Actually, it wasn’t, but you can believe what you need to. All religion is a faith-based process. Keep the faith.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:26 amFreedom of religion implies freedom FROM religion which is why we have separation of church and state (or at least used to).
Comment by simplicio
Can’t argue that. The Constitution simply states that Congress (ie gov’t) shall make no law either establishing or prohibiting the free exercise of ANY religion.
Doesn’t say that a city can’t put up a nativity scene at Christmas, just that there can’t be a LAW that the nativity scene can or cannot be displayed.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:28 amJust asking that you tone down the hate…leave that to the extreme right.
Comment by SGT Higgins
I have a real hard time w/ individuals who insist that dinosurs rode on Noah’s ark and the Earth is only 6,000 yrs old, and who are determined to FORCE the rest of us to go along w/ them.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:28 amC’mon GW you can do it!!!! You can be the worst. Whatever it is you’re doing just keep it up.
As for the country, wake up and see the naked emporer
July 18th, 2007 at 11:29 amSGT Higgins,
“is it really necessary to bash any belief that you disagree with?”
I understand your sentiment here, however, we hold religion to a much higher standard than say politics. It’s as if in this country you can’t criticize someone for their irrational religious beliefs, but you can bang away all you want at their political beliefs.
While some people tone could be revised, I also think that it is important to hold all beliefs to the same level of scrutiny.
So if someone is holding up stem cell research due to their religious beliefs, they should crushed for it. If they are propagating abstinence only education because of their religious beliefs, they should shown how false their beliefs are.
If a Senator were to be in favor of the Iraq war because Odin came to him in a vision and told him it was the right thing, we would collectively laugh him off the political landscape. But if it is just ‘God’, then it’s all good? No thanks.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:29 amBut I didn’t use the words “wacko”, “nut-job”, or “hate” once in that comment, BTW.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:29 am#
Have we forgotten that America was built from a religious perspective.
Comment by techie24chick — July 18, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Excuse me, America (and some parts of religion) were built upon morals, you know those things that have kept man from wiping each other out for million of years before “organized worship” was brought into the scene. You religious nutters like to take credit for all kinds of human traits.
Here’s an interesting read for you:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen
July 18th, 2007 at 11:29 amIt’s disheatening that you automatically call Bush’s ’supporters’ bible-thumping religious wing-nuts.
I can’t dispute that, necessarily, but being a Christian, I can say that it doesn’t automatically imply an abandonment of reason and sense.
Just asking that you tone down the hate…leave that to the extreme right.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 18, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Not all Christians are wingnuts, nor are all wingnuts Christians. But you cannot deny that there is a significant movement of Christians in the United States who believe that we are in the biblical end-times and support a foreign policy agenda that attempts to hasten this.
I’m all about religous tolerance and respecting individual beliefs, but when irrational extremist beliefs present a clear and present danger to society, they must be marginalized.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:30 amQuick, time for the media to cup George Bush’s balls and tell him that they are behind him.
-GSD
July 18th, 2007 at 11:30 am#11
being a Christian, I can say that it doesn’t automatically imply an abandonment of reason and sense.
You’re absolutely right. Believing things for which one has no evidence (virgin births, rising from the dead, existence of gods) does not automatically imply abandonment of reason. We all find ourselves in a confusing situation in life and so most people subscribe to some sort of faith belief about what it all means. Great, whatever gets you out of bed in the morning.
I am simply saying that I don’t think society should be so deferential to beliefs based on faith. I don’t think people should be belittled for believing things with no evidence, I just think it should be a private matter and not the basis for government policy in a diverse, secular society.
You seem like a reasonable person. I certainly don’t mean to be offensive but I also don’t mean to continue to quietly sit back while millions of people vote for a president like Bush for the emotional reason that he’s the choice for people of faith. It’s worth repeating that this situation we’re in is due to the credulity of FOX News watchers and mega-church religious fundamentalists.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:30 amAn even bigger majority, 83 percent, say the Democratic-controlled Congress is doing only a fair or poor job — the worst mark for Congress in a Zogby poll
Comment by crimedog
How much of that has to do w/ the fact that it’s a “Democrat” controlled Congress, as you like to put it, or that the Repubs have basically decided to throw a non-stop temper tantrum until even more of them are out of office in 2008?
July 18th, 2007 at 11:31 amI have a real hard time w/ individuals who insist that dinosurs rode on Noah’s ark and the Earth is only 6,000 yrs old, and who are determined to FORCE the rest of us to go along w/ them.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 18, 2007 @ 11:28 am
No no no - dinosaurs missed the ark. That’s why they all went extinct.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:31 amBush’s approval rating is at just 34 percent.
???
Here’s the most recent polls from pollingreport.com
Poll - Dates - App - Dis - Duh - Diff
Newsweek 7/11-12/07 29 64 7 -35
.
AP-Ipsos 7/9-11/07 33 65 * -32
.
USA Today/Gallup 7/6-8/07 29 66 5 -37
.
Newsweek 7/2-3/07 26 65 9 -39
.
CBS 6/26-28/07 27 65 8 -38
July 18th, 2007 at 11:34 am#
# 3 & # 5 —
It’s disheatening that you automatically call Bush’s ’supporters’ bible-thumping religious wing-nuts.
I can’t dispute that, necessarily, but being a Christian, I can say that it doesn’t automatically imply an abandonment of reason and sense.
I don’t come here to proselytize (like some) but in the spirit of tolerance, is it really necessary to bash any belief that you disagree with? I mean, you wouldn’t use the ‘N’ word or refer to homosexuals as ‘queers’, would you?
Just asking that you tone down the hate…leave that to the extreme right.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 18, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Ahh but you’re wrong.. Religion relies on giving up reason and sense.. C’mon virgin births, great floods, parting of seas by man, get real dude. Then they use this “fear based religion” to fight wars, telling you we must fight them there, or we’ll be wearing burkas here.
My point is that TP using this doesn’t help their case, as there are religious nutters who would love to put us Atheists in gas chambers, and so on. So yah I tend to get a bit hateful when Christians think they’re better than Muslims. You both are a joke in my eyes.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:34 amThis is the same 26% who believe in the tooth fairy.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:34 amNo no no - dinosaurs missed the ark. That’s why they all went extinct.
Comment by toasterhead
Not according to Ken Ham at the Genesis Museum down in Kentucky, and he actually found enough sucke… er, supporters to fund this nonsense.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:35 amI have a real hard time w/ individuals who insist that dinosurs rode on Noah’s ark and the Earth is only 6,000 yrs old, and who are determined to FORCE the rest of us to go along w/ them.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
lmao yeah the dino’s on the ark and Earth being 6000 yrs. old is a little hard to fathom. I’m not even sure how they come up with that crap. They are the fundamentalist types that protest Soldier funerals, not ALL Christians believe that stuff. I’m not the most well-read on the Bible, but I’ve never seen that in there anywhere.
As for them being determined to FORCE you to go along with them, again, it aren’t all, it’s some. I stopped going to church for many years…there’s only so much ‘Fire & Brimstone” you can take…or the endless calls to ’save your wretched soul’
July 18th, 2007 at 11:36 amSo yah I tend to get a bit hateful when Christians think they’re better than Muslims. You both are a joke in my eyes.
Comment by Godzilla
I can relate to your frustrations, Big G, but Sgt Higgins is trying to bridge that gap. Try to respect that single gesture.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:36 amWhy should peoples’ religious beliefs be accorded special respect?
Comment by simplicio —
They shouldn’t be afforded ’special’ respect…just respect.
Comment by SGT Higgins
I respect a man’s religious beliefs the same way I respect his idea that his wife is beautiful and his kids are smart, that is, at best, I can just not point out the fallacy of said beliefs because they are comforting to that individual. What we have over the last 7 years however is an effort to use faith-based beliefs (beliefs based on no evidence at all) as a basis for government policy. That I have a problem with and that is why you see so many people speaking out these days.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:37 amAn even bigger majority, 83 percent, say the Democratic-controlled Congress is doing only a fair or poor job — the worst mark for Congress in a Zogby poll
Comment by crimedog
And the Republican-controlled Congress was so much more popular. That explains how the maintained a majority in both Houses after the 2006 elections. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
P.S. Congress is currently about half Republican. Still not popular.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:38 amAs for them being determined to FORCE you to go along with them, again, it aren’t all, it’s some. I stopped going to church for many years…there’s only so much ‘Fire & Brimstone†you can take…or the endless calls to ’save your wretched soul’
Comment by SGT Higgins
I didn’t say it was ALL, Sgt. I just have very little use for the Tim Lahaye, Left Behind, violent video game nonsense. Convert them or kill them? Geez, screw al Qaeda, We’re growing our own domestic extremeists these days.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:39 am“The Rapture is not an exit strategy.”
THAT is fabulous. I want bumper stickers!
July 18th, 2007 at 11:40 am“Bush’s approval rating is at just 34 percent.”
???”
Um… they meant in the poll that was referenced in the original post, of course. Your citation of other polls is irrelevant.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:41 amAnd the Republican-controlled Congress was so much more popular. That explains how the maintained a majority in both Houses after the 2006 elections. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
P.S. Congress is currently about half Republican. Still not popular.
Comment by ann — July 18, 2007 @ 11:38 am
Approval ratings for Congress are meaningless anyway. Voters don’t vote for Congress. They vote for their individual members. If you want a meaningful statistic, you need to look at approval ratings for each member of Congress by their own constituents.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:41 amwe hold religion to a much higher standard than say politics. —- That doesn’t seem kinda backwards to you?
It’s as if in this country you can’t criticize someone for their irrational religious beliefs, but you can bang away all you want at their political beliefs. — criticize away, just asking that there be a level of respect.
I also think that it is important to hold all beliefs to the same level of scrutiny. — No argument here.
So if someone is holding up stem cell research due to their religious beliefs, they should crushed for it. —- crushed? seems a bit harsh for simply holding a different viewpoint than you.
If they are propagating abstinence only education because of their religious beliefs, they should shown how false their beliefs are. —– Disagree, their beliefs shouldn’t be in question, so much as their conclusions.
If a Senator were to be in favor of the Iraq war because Odin came to him in a vision and told him it was the right thing, we would collectively laugh him off the political landscape. But if it is just ‘God’, then it’s all good? No thanks. —- Ever read Norse mythology? That Odin dude was one bad @ss MF’er. lol
Comment by Crump’s Brother
July 18th, 2007 at 11:44 amWe’re growing our own domestic extremeists these days.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
No kidding. Look at he backwoods militias that came to light after the OKC bombing…look at Mc Veigh himself.
I have a familial connection to an extremist hate group that lives on a mountain in OK…a religious little compound in all honesty. They think the Bible says that whites are superior to Blacks. Wana know what they base it on? Apparently in Genesis, speaking of the Garden of Eden…it says there were many ‘trees’…..they think these ‘trees’ were not actually ‘trees’ so much as ‘races’ …… Crazy people abound everywhere.
I didn’t say it was ALL, Sgt. — I didn’t intend to put words in your mouth. But I don’t think the far right religious nuts are reallya ‘threat’ to the political landscape.
July 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amSGT Higgins,
“criticize away, just asking that there be a level of respect.”
Fine, but the problem is the lack of intellectual honesty from those who call themselves religious. They use the their faith as a shield from which we cannot criticize them. Sorry, I will criticize those who hold irrational beliefs. Especially when those beliefs spill out into the public sphere. I think people find offense, when they are being shown to be wrong. It hurts to have the truth exposed to those who live their life through faith alone.
“crushed? seems a bit harsh for simply holding a different viewpoint than you.”
Like I said, if it’s God, it’s ok, if it’s Odin or Zeus then we would all feel justified laughing them out of the political arena. So no, I don’t feel it’s harsh.
“Disagree, their beliefs shouldn’t be in question, so much as their conclusions.”
But when they are using the bible as the basis for their conclusions, then yes, their beliefs are fair game!
July 18th, 2007 at 11:52 amAhh but you’re wrong..— Disagree
Religion relies on giving up reason and sense..—- No, no it doesn’t.
C’mon virgin births, — If you believe in a god who can do anything…making a little Y chromosome is probably not all that difficult.
great floods, —- there’s archaeological evidence of it.
parting of seas by man, — not by man…through man.
get real dude. —- real.
Then they —- they? You mean the Christian Coalition?
use this “fear based religion†to fight wars,— it isn’t fear-based….but religion has been usedto commit atrocities for a long time. Doesn’t mena religion is the culprit, so much as man. Lots of posters here feel like man’s inhumanity towards man is more to blame than religion itself. It’s more a mis-interpretation that causes these things.
telling you we must fight them there, or we’ll be wearing burkas here. — Really? and you’re implying that they argue that because it’s biblical?
My point is that TP using this doesn’t help their case, as there are religious nutters who would love to put us Atheists in gas chambers, and so on.— Gas chambers? Really? seems a bit over-dramatic. And what would you do to them if given the chance?
So yah I tend to get a bit hateful —- That’s the part I’m addressing
when Christians think they’re better than Muslims. You both are a joke in my eyes. —- And that’s fine, again, I’m not here to preach to you..laugh all you want, dude.
Comment by Godzilla
July 18th, 2007 at 12:00 pmAs my screen name indicates, I am a Christian and I am adamantly opposed to the mixing of politics and religion, which can be detrimental to both. I base much of my approach to the issue on the following:
July 18th, 2007 at 12:01 pmYour citation of other polls is irrelevant.
It’s obvious that they were citing their poll.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:03 pmWhich happens to contradict the most recent polls from other sources, just pointing out the diffs. I’d disagree with your irrelevant characterization.
[stupid fingers!]
…on the following:
1. The Bible is meant for believers, not unbelievers, to follow.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:04 pm2. The Bible is a love story, not a science or history or political book. It
is a guide for believers relationship with their God and each other.
I respect a man’s religious beliefs the same way I respect his idea that his wife is beautiful and his kids are smart, that is, at best, I can just not point out the fallacy of said beliefs because they are comforting to that individual. —– So, in your opinion, it’s all subjective?
What we have over the last 7 years however is an effort to use faith-based beliefs (beliefs based on no evidence at all —– There is evidence…. there’s not left-over petri dishes, but there is evidence)
government policy. That I have a problem with and that is why you see so many people speaking out these days. — As a means to shape policym, I agree, it doesn’t belong. But because a politician, voted in, HAS a belief system, shouldn’t be reason enough to oust him/her. They should be free to exercise their beliefs….as long as it isn’t setting it up as policy.
Comment by simplicio
July 18th, 2007 at 12:06 pmPLC, well put.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:06 pmIt’s only when zealots like Bush use their interpretations of it to guide our national policy in health care research, reproductive rights, etc, that I get up in a huff.
What is really sad is that the American Public hate the Dem controlled congress even more then Bush.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:07 pmBut I don’t think the far right religious nuts are reallya ‘threat’ to the political landscape.
Comment by SGT Higgins
Hitler started out w/ a half dozen drunken cronies in the back of a beerhall in Munich. I get nervous when I keep reading about the embedding of evangelicals in the military by BushCo, like at the Air Force Academy, or some of the articles I’ve read about religious arm-twisting at Veterans hospitals. All big trees grow from small seeds.
One of the behaviors I find the most disturbing about Bush is this attempt to meld God to Republicanism to the military., and all as part of his own cult of personality. “Only George can save us…” There has been an unwritten rule that American presidents don’t appear publicly in military uniforms. Of course, Bush pi**ed on that one too - Kommander Kodpiece on the aircraft carrier.
I have come across more than one Rightwing, Christian website of late that blends those three together - American eagles w/ crosses superimposed over red, white, and blue backgrounds, etc, etc, etc.
And the nasty little whackjob goes on and on about it being “God’s will” that he took Saddam out. W/ all due respect to your personal beliefs and feelings, I simply find Bush and his evangelical supporters to be nasty, frightening people.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:07 pmBush and his Puke keepers are trash. Rmember them next election!
July 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pmWhat is really sad is that the American Public hate the Dem controlled congress even more then Bush.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Actually, what’s really, really sad is seeing someone like you continually try to distort the truth for your own personal agenda, no matter how obvious or ineffective you turn out to be. Keep trying.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:09 pm2nd longest economic expansion ever.
People are not happy with that?
July 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pmOkay SGT, we’re on..
Ever keep tropical fish?
Or maybe salt water??
Try mixing them.. IE put saltwater fish in freshwater, and vice versa. Bet you your next years wages they all die. (except for some who are capable of living in both) We on? A world flood would be catastrophic to one form or other of aquatic life, simple logic don’t you see that? So did god “design” all new fresh/salt water fish in the last 10,000 years? What about the fossils? More lies by scientists?
Next…
Why in thousands of years have we not even had one “freak” human pregnancy? Especially now when we have some 7 billion people?
More BS..
Religion is brain washing, so it’s often used for evil men to forget their logic and compassion. Hitler killed 3-13 million jews using peoples religion, hatred and fear. We’re on that path now don’t you see it. Only this time it’s against Islam/Muslims. It’s for the evil rich men to take control of anothers resources, using the pawns in their armies religious and patriotic beliefs.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:16 pmFine, but the problem is the lack of intellectual honesty from those who call themselves religious. —- And the intellectual dishonesty of those who don’t?
They use the their faith as a shield from which we cannot criticize them. —- They may use it as a shield…but who says you can’t criticize them?
Sorry, I will criticize those who hold irrational beliefs. — irrational…in your opinion.
Especially when those beliefs spill out into the public sphere. — public sphere? So you would want a law prohibiting the free exercise thereof?
I think people find offense, when they are being shown to be wrong. — I would think that they would get defensive in such a case….but then they would get over it…..I mean, if they’re wrong.
It hurts to have the truth exposed to those who live their life through faith alone. —- the truth hurts? how cliche’. So it doesn’t hurt unless their lives are lived exclusively through faith?
Like I said, if it’s God, it’s ok, if it’s Odin or Zeus then we would all feel justified laughing them out of the political arena. So no, I don’t feel it’s harsh. — ok, again, I’m not here to proselytize.
But when they are using the bible as the basis for their conclusions, then yes, their beliefs are fair game! — Then why hasn’t your ‘truth’ made ‘em see the light? You’d think if it was so overwhelmingly truth-y, they’d have no choice but to abandon it.
Comment by Crump’s Brother
July 18th, 2007 at 12:17 pm2nd longest economic expansion ever.
People are not happy with that?
Comment by Muckdog
Based on what? Bushco’s own figures? Dude, these guys cook the books worse than Chef Boyardee.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:21 pmI am a Christian and I am adamantly opposed to the mixing of politics and religion, which can be detrimental to both.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
I agree.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:21 pm#
2nd longest economic expansion ever.
People are not happy with that?
Comment by Muckdog — July 18, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Oh and the highest foreclosure rates EVER, and lowest personal savings and personal incomes ever. I’ll provide links if you do! But maybe you know how to “google it”
You mean there’s more new Walmarts? Whoopie more sh!t from China, sold to us by people making billions while we give them tax breaks.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:22 pmThis can all end if New York and California secede from the union. This country is broken and there’s no fixing it.
http://www.middleburyinstitute.org/
July 18th, 2007 at 12:25 pmJust asking that you tone down the hate…leave that to the extreme right.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 18, 2007 @ 11:19 am
A reasonable request.
We don’t have to agree with anyone’s religion, or lack thereof, but I think we must respect that person’s right to believe the way they choose.
Sarge doesn’t hide the fact that he’s a christian, but he also has never tried to impose his beliefs on anyone here.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:25 pmI respect a man’s religious beliefs the same way I respect his idea that his wife is beautiful and his kids are smart, that is, at best, I can just not point out the fallacy of said beliefs because they are comforting to that individual. —– So, in your opinion, it’s all subjective?
Comment by SGT Higgins
Religious belief is not only subjective, it’s likely false. Do you claim that religious faith is based on objective evidence? I’m open to the existence of gods, just haven’t seen a shred of proof. Same goes for unicorns and fairies. I can’t prove they don’t exist either, but I don’t have to waste my time explaining why I don’t believe in them. God on the other hand is another matter since so many people choose to believe gods exist.
I think you would agree that even if one of our religious traditions is right, since they disagree with each other, they can’t all be true. If you’re a Christian, do you stay awake at night in a cold sweat thinking maybe Islam is the right one?
We’re all in the same boat. None of us knows why we’re here or what happens (if anything) after we die. With the lack of any evidence available supporting the veracity of any of our religious traditions, I prefer to live this life to the fullest, be the most compassionate and helpful I can to my fellow human beings and believe things that have evidence supporting them. That’s my path.
The best that I can say about religious faith is that it gives people comfort and hope. It’s worth pointing out that it also comes with a downside for many people (not all, but many) and that is that millions of people live in willful ignorance of reality and can’t deal with this life and so look towards a supposed next life where things will be better. That means they don’t feel a sense of urgency about protecting this planet, the only one we’ve ever lived on as far as we know. Why worry about sustaining the planet through human actions if you believe a higher power will intervene and swoop you up into the sky?
Faith and credulity may be comforting but, as we can see from the actions of the Bush administration, it has a downside. Bush has had unwavering support from religious fundamentalists and the world and America has paid a terrible price for their willful ignorance. It’s about time people said so.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pm#
I am a Christian and I am adamantly opposed to the mixing of politics and religion, which can be detrimental to both.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
I agree.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 18, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
I’ll third that. Well all but the Christian part. I’m an atheist who practices zen buddhism.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:28 pmHitler started out w/ a half dozen drunken cronies in the back of a beerhall in Munich. — and has been as equally argued to be religiousas irreligious.
I get nervous when I keep reading about the embedding of evangelicals in the military by BushCo, like at the Air Force Academy, —aren’t they called chaplains?
or some of the articles I’ve read about religious arm-twisting at Veterans hospitals. — I’m not familiar with that.
One of the behaviors I find the most disturbing about Bush is this attempt to meld God to Republicanism to the military.,—- That kinda bugs me, too. I mean, you wanna take out Saddam, go ahead, but you gotta realize you sound silly when you claim God told you to.
There has been an unwritten rule that American presidents don’t appear publicly in military uniforms. Of course, Bush pi**ed on that one too - Kommander Kodpiece on the aircraft carrier. — lmao…if it’s unwritten, then is it really a rule? and who cares what he wore?
I have come across more than one Rightwing, Christian website American eagles w/ crosses superimposed over red, white, and blue backgrounds, etc, etc, etc. —- I’ve seen some of those, they are prety over the top…..but there are stes like that all over the internet, from all walks of life, and political leanings.
W/ all due respect to your personal beliefs and feelings, — Thank you, that’ all I’m asking.
I simply find Bush and his evangelical supporters to be nasty, frightening people. —- And his supporters that aren’t evangelical? they aren’t as nasty or frightening?
Comment by The republic of Stupidity
July 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pmPoll or NO poll, the country can NEVER be “on the right track†as long as the current corrupt, crooked president and his unconvicted (or uncommuted/pardoned) cronies are in control of the Executive Branch.
IMPEACH!
July 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pmNot all Christians are Bush supporters, but I am willing to bet that 90% of Bush supporters are Christian.
There is no denying that the messes that Bush has got us in have a religious taint and influence. How much influence we will never know. Did Bush divert us into Iraq because Jesus told him to, as he has said on more than one occasion until KKKarl told him to STFU? Or did Bush go after Sadam because he wants Daddy to like him more than Jeb? Or was it because the pathetic loser wanted to be remembered as a War President?
But his religion has rotted everything he has touched.
There’s a real world out there, and it isn’t subject to interpretation from some silly myth.
I appreciate Sgt. Higgins religious bent, and will gladly give any and all room to believe the way they want. As long as they keep their beliefs out of my laws, schools and government. When they start to impose their beliefs on my life, I want to burn the churches and shoot any survivors.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:34 pmWe on? — Godzilla,
I didn’t intend to start a battle. I didn’t come here to prove my belief or disprove yours.
Why in thousands of years have we not even had one “freak†human pregnancy? Especially now when we have some 7 billion people? — Kinda argues to it not being a ‘freak’ accident.
Religion is brain washing, so it’s often used for evil men to forget their logic and compassion. Hitler killed 3-13 million jews using peoples religion, hatred and fear. —- I think he probably relied more on their hatred and fear than their religion.
We’re on that path now don’t you see it. Only this time it’s against Islam/Muslims. —- except that ‘we’ aren’t on that path. Some have ALWAYS been on that path. And always will be.
It’s for the evil rich men to take control of anothers resources, using the pawns in their armies religious and patriotic beliefs. —- Wars have throughout history been land/resource grabs. Because religion has been used many times for them doesn’t argue that religion should be banned.
Comment by Godzilla
July 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pmAs long as they keep their beliefs out of my laws, schools and government.—– fair enough! I agree.
When they start to impose their beliefs on my life, I want to burn the churches and shoot any survivors. — Ok, now that part seems a lot like another writer I saw…what was it she said?……” Bomb their cities, Kill their leader and convert them all to Christianity”. (or something like that).
Comment by nanlichi
July 18th, 2007 at 12:40 pmMy distaste for the current corrupt, crooked president is informed by my Christian faith. To me he is a hypocrite and a Pharisee, more than any Christian I would ever want to worship with.
However, the topic of this thread has to do with his inability/unwillingness to keep the country “on the right track.†We can discuss his religious beliefs, or lack thereof, at another time.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:42 pmBush has had unwavering support from religious fundamentalists and the world and America has paid a terrible price for their willful ignorance. It’s about time people said so. —- I agree, but calling their willful ignorance out, their unwavering support of Bush in his failing policies is one thing….they ARE ignorant. But taking them out at the kneecaps, attacking their religious beliefs, is the part that seems mean-spirited and unhelpful to the debate. I mean, I have to think that reasoning with them, pointing out flawed policy will work a lot better than, “Your God is a sham!”.
Comment by simplicio
July 18th, 2007 at 12:44 pmBurning the churches was an obvious hyperbole, of course I am not suggesting that we resort to violence because of someone’s beliefs. And you probably recognized that. But I will aggressively battle religion when it trys to poke it’s ugly head in my life.
Compare me to Ann Cunter? Now that does hurt and was over the top.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:45 pmReligious belief is not only subjective, it’s likely false. Do you claim that religious faith is based on objective evidence? I’m open to the existence of gods, just haven’t seen a shred of proof. Same goes for unicorns and fairies. I can’t prove they don’t exist either, but I don’t have to waste my time explaining why I don’t believe in them. God on the other hand is another matter since so many people choose to believe gods exist.
Comment by simplicio — July 18, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
Well that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? Faith and proof are mutually exclusive. If you have faith in something, you don’t need to find evidence. The moment you start looking for proof that your faith is correct, you begin losing faith. That’s the inherent hypocrisy in the Moron Magnet and Intelligent Design and all that crap. It’s using pseudoscience to create proof. There’s no faith involved.
Religion and science can peacefully coexist. Einstein said it beautifully:
In other words, if someone is truly faithful, they don’t need to see one miraculous virgin birth to believe in God. They only need to look at the several million miraculous births that happen daily throughout the world.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:46 pmOne Planet
One People
One Chance
July 18th, 2007 at 12:50 pmSGT Higgins,
“I mean, I have to think that reasoning with them, pointing out flawed policy will work a lot better than, “Your God is a sham!—
But the ‘whacko’ wing of that party doesn’t listen to anything but the bible. And they have been critical to the current success of the Republican Party. So the only way to go at them, is their religion.
They are against gay rights, because the bible tells them it is an abomination. The only way to go at this rationale, is through a critique of their religious belief.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:52 pmIn still another attempt to get us back on topic (sigh):
Poll or NO poll, the country can NEVER be “on the right track†as long as the current corrupt, crooked president and his unconvicted (or un-commuted/pardoned) cronies are in control of the Executive Branch.
IMPEACH!
July 18th, 2007 at 12:55 pmHitler started out w/ a half dozen drunken cronies in the back of a beerhall in Munich.
— and has been as equally argued to be religious as irreligious.
I’m not sure what you mean. My point is that even small, disconnected groups can manage to turn into mass movements over time. Hitler eventually took over a country.
I get nervous when I keep reading about the embedding of evangelicals in the military by BushCo, like at the Air Force Academy,
—aren’t they called chaplains?
This is from the Washington Post, about 2 yrs ago.
“Last week, the Washington-based group Americans United for Separation of Church and State issued a 14-page report charging that there is “systematic and pervasive religious bias and intolerance at the highest levels of the Academy command structure.”
The report said that during basic training, cadets who declined to go to chapel after dinner were organized into a “Heathen Flight” and marched back to their dormitories. It said the Air Force’s “Chaplain of the Year” urged cadets to proselytize among their classmates or “burn in the fires of hell”; that mandatory cadet meetings often began with explicitly Christian prayers; and that numerous faculty members introduced themselves to their classes as born-again Christians and encouraged students to become born again during the term.”
This goes beyond a few enthusiastic chaplains.
here has been an unwritten rule that American presidents don’t appear publicly in military uniforms. Of course, Bush pi**ed on that one too - Kommander Kodpiece on the aircraft carrier.
— lmao…if it’s unwritten, then is it really a rule? and who cares what he wore?
Others have commented on Bush’s “uniform”, Sgt.
“By appearing in military garb, most notoriously for the “Mission Accomplished” aircraft carrier landing in 2003, Bush has broken a long-standing presidential tradition, according to Dana Milbank of the Washington Post:
… the experts I checked with said it is unlikely any president had done that since Teddy Roosevelt, and that was before such images would be broadcast into millions of homes. Even true military figures, such as Eisenhower, avoided wearing uniform as president.
President Eisenhower, who as an Army general had led four million troops in the invasion of France during World War II, was concerned that such attire would be contrary to the constitutional principle of civilian control of the military.
Update: Glenn Reynolds weighs in with a link to Clinton looking goofy in his own commander-in-chief jacket back in 1996.
Though I’m a yellow-dog Democrat, Reynolds himself suggested after the flight-suit photo op that a sartorial line was being crossed. He even used Ike to make his point:
… when Eisenhower was President, he made it very clear that he was an ex-General. … It’s the blurring of the lines that bothers me here. The President is the civilian commander-in-chief of the military, not a part of the military himself.
was concerned that such attire would be contrary to the constitutional principle of civilian control of the military.
“WAS CONCERNED THAT SUCH ATTIRE WOULD BE CONTRARY TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPAL OF CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY.”
I didn’t know Clinton had done it too, and I don’t like that either.
I have come across more than one Rightwing, Christian website American eagles w/ crosses superimposed over red, white, and blue backgrounds, etc, etc, etc.
—- I’ve seen some of those, they are pretty over the top… but there are sites like that all over the internet, from all walks of life, and political leanings.
POLITICAL, not religious. The problem I have /w the sites I’m talking about is the way they intertwine the religious w/ the political. “It’s GOD’S will we take over the world.” When people believe, w/out question, that “God” supports their actions, such as w/ Osmam Bin Laden, they can become very dangerous. And Tim LaHaye’s comics can get very violent towards “non-believers”.
W/ all due respect to your personal beliefs and feelings,
— Thank you, that’ all I’m asking.
Respect is a 2 way street, Sgt.
I simply find Bush and his evangelical supporters to be nasty, frightening people. —-
And his supporters that aren’t evangelical? they aren’t as nasty or frightening?
Of course they are. I don’t like fanatics of any stripe anymore.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:58 pmBurning the churches was an obvious hyperbole, of course I am not suggesting that we resort to violence because of someone’s beliefs.
Compare me to Ann Cunter? Now that does hurt and was over the top.
Comment by nanlichi
But there really was a comparison. It wasn’t personal nanlichi, but your hyperbole was comparable to AC’s.
I didn’t intend to inflict harm or insult.
July 18th, 2007 at 1:01 pmMy point is that even small, disconnected groups can manage to turn into mass movements over time. —- ok, I can cede that point.
Hitler eventually took over a country. — more than one.
—aren’t they called chaplains?
This is from the Washington Post, about 2 yrs ago. — Ok, I didn’t know that. that’s a long way past disturbing, that’s frightening.
This goes beyond a few enthusiastic chaplains. — it does indeed.
— lmao…if it’s unwritten, then is it really a rule? and who cares what he wore?
Others have commented on Bush’s “uniformâ€, Sgt.
Even true military figures, such as Eisenhower, avoided wearing uniform as president. — Ok, I would think Eisenhower had more ‘right’ to wear the uniform than Bush.
Update: Glenn Reynolds weighs in with a link to Clinton looking goofy in his own commander-in-chief jacket back in 1996. — I have to believe it’s a case of egoism overtaking reason.
It’s the blurring of the lines that bothers me here. The President is the civilian commander-in-chief of the military, not a part of the military himself. — I agree. The uniform should only be worn when serving. I just didn’t put that much stock in the photo. He’s dangerous for more reasons that what he wears.
“WAS CONCERNED THAT SUCH ATTIRE WOULD BE CONTRARY TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPAL OF CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY.†—- ok, gottit. lol Concerned.
I didn’t know Clinton had done it too, and I don’t like that either. — The article mentioned he wore a ‘jacket’, like an embroidered one was my take, difference between that and a uniform.
POLITICAL, not religious. The problem I have /w the sites I’m talking about is the way they intertwine the religious w/ the political. —what they BELIEVE is theirs….what they DO is fair game.
“It’s GOD’S will we take over the world.†—- Is that a quote? Cuz that’s just nutty.
When people believe, w/out question, that “God†supports their actions, they can become very dangerous.—- They already are by that point.
And Tim LaHaye’s comics can get very violent towards “non-believersâ€. —- yeah, I agree. Way to expres God’s love, huh?
Respect is a 2 way street, Sgt. — If i haven’t been, please call me on it. I’ve tried to remain even-headed and not emotional here…that doesn’t always come across.
And his supporters that aren’t evangelical? they aren’t as nasty or frightening?
Of course they are. I don’t like fanatics of any stripe anymore. — I was just trying to point out that supporters on both sides, especially the extremes, can be very fanatical.
Comment by The republic of Stupidity
July 18th, 2007 at 1:19 pm“It’s GOD’S will we take over the world.†—- Is that a quote? Cuz that’s just nutty.
It’s not a quote. I don’t have time right now to google a bunch of websites, but I’m sure I could find some doozies if I spent the time.
Yes, you’ve been respectful, and I’d like to think I have been too. Nice talking to you. I’m late for work. I’m sure we will cross paths at TP again.
July 18th, 2007 at 1:39 pmReligious belief is not only subjective, it’s likely false. Do you claim that religious faith is based on objective evidence? — there is objective evidence that SUPPORTS faith.
I’m open to the existence of gods, just haven’t seen a shred of proof. — I would suggest a book, “The case for Faith”. It’s a bit one-sided, but the arguments both for and against (mostly for, in all honesty) are very well thought out.
but I don’t have to waste my time explaining why I don’t believe in them. God on the other hand is another matter since so many people choose to believe gods exist. —- But I don’t believe you should be made to explain WHY you don’t believe in God. It’s your choice. (Freedom of choice is something God values)
I think you would agree that even if one of our religious traditions is right, since they disagree with each other, they can’t all be true. If you’re a Christian, do you stay awake at night in a cold sweat thinking maybe Islam is the right one? —– No, I don’t LOL Has to do with the evidence mentioned in the book above, as well as another book by the same author.
None of us knows why we’re here or what happens (if anything) after we die. — None of us can PROVE.
be the most compassionate and helpful I can to my fellow human beings That’s my path. — And I wouldn’t want to knock you off your path. I don’t wish you harm, either. But let’s face it, There are religious nuts who DO wish you harm for ‘turning your face from God’ and whatnot….just as there are those who don’t believe who wish harm on the ‘crazy religious nutjobs’. Hate and irrationality isn’t strictly a right-wing philosophy.
Why worry about sustaining the planet through human actions if you believe a higher power will intervene and swoop you up into the sky? — That is a dangerous tack to take. Believing in a higher power and believing that that higher power wil swoop down and save you from yourself is a misunderstanding of said higher power.
Man 1: “I’d like to ask God why he allows famine, war and injustice.”
Man 2: “I’m afraid God might ask me the same question.”
Faith and credulity may be comforting but, as we can see from the actions of the Bush administration, it has a downside. — The Bush admin. hasa downside that goes beyond his faith.
Bush has had unwavering support from religious fundamentalists — this is true.
and the world and America has paid a terrible price for their willful ignorance. — this is also true, but not necessarily connected.
Comment by simplicio
July 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pmIt’s not a quote. I don’t have time right now to google a bunch of websites, but I’m sure I could find some doozies if I spent the time.
lol, I know you could. I was just wondering if that one was quoted, cuz it would definitely qualify asa doozie. —there’s probably onesthat are worse.
Yes, you’ve been respectful, and I’d like to think I have been too. Nice talking to you. I’m late for work. I’m sure we will cross paths at TP again. — Thanks, you have been. See you around.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
July 18th, 2007 at 1:44 pmPoll or NO poll, the country can NEVER be “on the right track†as long as the current corrupt, crooked president and his unconvicted (or un-commuted/pardoned) cronies are in control of the Executive Branch.
IMPEACH!
Comment by hterrya
Right on! (sorry for the thread being steered off-course)
July 18th, 2007 at 1:49 pmBush has had unwavering support from religious fundamentalists — this is true.
and the world and America has paid a terrible price for their willful ignorance. — this is also true, but not necessarily connected.
Comment by SGT Higgins
Sure it’s connected.
1) Bush screws up country from 2000-2004
2) credulous, faith-based religious people vote for him anyway because that’s what they do, their pastor passes out ‘voter’s guides’ in their church and they go pull the (R) lever no matter what.
3) we’re stuck with 4 more years of Bush and our country and world continue to pay a price.
I lay this at the doorstep of selfish people who just want tax cuts and don’t care about the world and willfully ignorant faith-based religious folks who believe the republican party gives a damn about “family values.”
SGT Higgins, while I disagree with your religious beliefs, you seem to be a clear-thinking individual otherwise. I don’t blame Christians like you for the state of our country and world. I do blame the faith-based, unquestioning mindset however. And while it doesn’t require religious faith to be credulous and unquestioning, there is a higher proportion of such people in churches, especially the kind of churches that Karl Rove has tapped into to perpetuate republican rule.
Simply put, without appealing to common folks’ religious sentiments, the republican party could never sell it’s brand to the majority of the populace.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:11 pmWhen hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans two years ago, the aftermath was dire. We had no electricity, water, food, and basic medical needs. Our entire infrastructure was in total chaos for a few weeks. But guess who came to help? Guess who took off from their jobs to come down here and help? Church based groups from all over the Country. I got to meet many of these people. They came here to help the people in need. They didn’t discriminate who they were helping. In their eyes, we are all God’s children, and they wanted to do anything they could to help! And they did, in mass. My community did not flood, we were on higher ground. The goverment sent hundreds of semi-trucks to different areas of New Orleans, loaded with water, ice, and M.R.E.’s (meals ready to eat). Guess who helped me and my community pass out those supplies? A Baptist church group from Oklahoma, over a hundred members from their church alone. They stayed for weeks, some stayed for months. They stayed in school gyms, and slept on cots. No air conditioning in the brutal summer heat of New Orleans. They spent their own money on diapers, childrens aspirin, and other neccesities until some of the stores opened back up. They came with chain saws to help clear the dangers from falling trees while putting themselves in danger. One lady pulled up to me and asked me directions to the neediest neighborhood in the city she could get to. She had diapers, baby food, hygiene products, and medicine. The neediest was the worst, but she went anyway. Her van had the logo, “Faith and Hope Christian Church”.
They came here to help us. They never once asked me my religon! They never once tried to preach to me! They did prey in their little circles, and as for someone who does not go to Church, I was thankful for them.
One day, your community may experience what we went through. I hope not. But if it does, I’ll bet my life that the same people who came here to help, will come to help you also!!! The same Christians that some of you here, love to HATE. And I gurantee if you ever need their help, you’ll warmly accept it. Your ignorance is pathetic!!! You are sheltered fools who believe in your own kind of religion. You spew hate for people who believe in something besides themselves.
I know some of you are going to blame Bush for Katrina. He did not create hurricane Katrina. He did not build the levees that failed(They were built defective decades ago by the Army Corps of Engineers), and the majority of the stories you read about the food and water not getting here are bullshit. I never left the city, and as I said above, we were passing out hundreds and thousands of meals, water, etc., sent by the goverment two days after the storm.
One funny side note. My job had me working two weeks after the storm all over the city, in mostly places where there was six to twelve feet of water. The water was gone and we were allowed back in the city. We worked in the bad areas. Often I would be approached by people, mostly women, and ask me if I had seen any dogs or cats around. They were here to rescue the animals. A lot of animals were left behind. Most people believed they would be back a day after the storm, like we always did. That did not happen. They saved many animals and we thank them for their help. One day I was approached by three women driving a new B.M.W. with license plates from New York. They advised me they saw a dog run bye and did I see which way it went. I did not and advised them they were in a really bad neighborhood, and to be careful. When they drove off, I noticed a “Kerry for President” bumper sticker. I thought nothing more of it and went about my business. This scenario started happening on a dailly basis. It hit me one day that the people who vote Democratic are here to save the animals, and the people who vote Republican are here to save the people. Both parties representing who they are.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pmNanlichi sounds exactly like Ann Coulter. You use your hateful words to get a point accross, even though you don’t mean it? Please….
July 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pm“Impeach”!!! And then what? Do you have the two thirds majority to throw him out? No! Enough already. New Zogby poll states that”83% of the Democratic controlled Congress is doing a poor job- the worst mark in a Zogby poll”.
“It’s gonna take a woman to clean the House!”. They are a full of nothing!!!!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:53 pmTo Simplico and The Republic of Stupidity- A real life dose of “reality” is all it takes to turn down the hate? I thought so! I hope you never have to rely on anyone but yourselves. That way, when the people you despise come to help, you won’t have to say hateful things and send them away!! But your were taught better than that, right?
July 18th, 2007 at 5:14 pmTo Simplico and The Republic of Stupidity- A real life dose of “reality†is all it takes to turn down the hate? I thought so! I hope you never have to rely on anyone but yourselves. That way, when the people you despise come to help, you won’t have to say hateful things and send them away!! But your were taught better than that, right?
Comment by Johnny Swank
What hate? Is it hate to disagree with someone? Because it’s religion, we can’t talk in a forthright manner? Great, a religious group helped you out. That has no bearing on the truth of their religious beliefs. I am an atheist and I spent several years of my life teaching high school in east new orleans, a place our society has neglected and where there is much poverty. I volunteer at hunger centers, carry water and food in my car to give to the homeless, and am generally a very nice person.
Thing is, if I or some other atheist were to help you out, you’d never know that I was an atheist and so we get this slanted view that only people who go to church help people out. That’s not true. And in fact, I think atheists need to start doing volunteer work while wearing some kind of marker of their atheism so people start to see that there are good people who don’t believe in god.
I’m glad some of your fellow human beings helped you out. I’m sure they were nice, compassionate people. I just happen to disagree with them that god exists, answers prayers, and sent his son here to be crucified for my salvation. I also think that people who are too credulous are easier for politicians to fool. In this case, millions of Christians lined up to support Bush and the Republicans. That support has enabled them to do much damage in our country and world. In no way is that ameliorated by the fact that many of these same people are kind and generous with their time.
July 18th, 2007 at 5:27 pmSimplicio, you state that the people who are to credulous are easier for politicians to fool. Do you honestly believe that fifty million voters, voted Bush in because of religon? They voted for him based on Consevative values. Of course there is a block of Christian voters that vote strictly Republican, and they did help him win. Just like the Democratic party rely on their African American block. Without them, you would never see another Democratic in the office for decades. And the majority of them are spiritual people. Ironic. It’s easy to blame the voter. We vote based on ideals(at least some of us do) and principals that a candidate conveys to us. Bush is angering his own party, based on not being a Consevative. I would argue that half of the people who voted for Bush are angry; just look at poll numbers. The war, immigration, out of control spending, and bigger goverment just to name a few. During Clintons administration, he was allowed to focous more on domestic issues. Bush has had to deal with a lot more than Clinton ever did, but he still not living up to Conservative ideals. The only good thing going is the economy. Thats whats saving his ass.
“What hate?” The new sport in Democratic politics these days are”Destroy the Christian White Male Voter!!”, and my favorite orginization, the A.C.L.U. is incrimintally succeeding. It is happening. Why do you think the Christian organizations are fighting back? Because they have nothing better to do? You put a dog in a corner and he will fight his way out. And look at this blog. There is plenty of hate; “crush them” and “destroy them”. I thought we had freedom of religon for everyone. Do you truly understand the meaning of that? Are we now to say that Christianity is so dangerous to this Country,( because Bush got elected), that it is time to destroy Christians and their beliefs? If you don’t like Christians, throw out, or vote out The Declaration of Independece, and The Bill of Rights. The people who wrote them decided that for a true Democracy to work, it had to be based on morals. I am not saying people without religon are without morals, I am pointing out why our system works.
You are attacking people of faith whether you know it or not. You are what you blame them of being; pushing ideals on others. You attack their faith because they hold a majority in this Country that you do not. You do not believe what they do, and that is your right. However, they are not pushing their beliefs on you by voting for G.W.B. Thats a cowardly thing to imply. “If only there were no believers, we would never lose another election!”. (How about better candidates?) However true that may be, the only way to eliminate the possibility of another G.W.B, is to deny the right of free religon? Thats amount to imposing your beliefs on theirs. Which you don’t believe in, right? What you are implying is what people of color went through. Their right to vote was denied based on color. Do you want to deny Christians the right to vote based on religon? It sounds like it. In your heart you may, but would be foolish to admit it. Majority rules in our system(except for the electorate in the presedential nomination). Get used to it already.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:51 pm