Townsend: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Al Qaeda Was In Iraq Before The War
Townsend: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Al Qaeda Was In Iraq Before The War
Yesterday’s National Intelligence Estimate concluded that al Qaeda remains strong in Iraq and has been energized by the Iraq war. It stated:
Of note, we assess that al-Qa’ida will probably seek to leverage the contacts and capabilities of al-Qa’ida in Iraq (AQI), its most visible and capable affiliate and the only one known to have expressed a desire to attack the Homeland. [...]
In addition, we assess that its association with AQI helps al-Qa’ida to energize the broader Sunni extremist community, raise resources, and to recruit and indoctrinate operatives, including for Homeland attacks.
Today in an interview with NPR, Homeland Security Advisor Frances Fragos Townsend argued that the NIE’s findings strengthen the administration’s argument to stay the course. “Al Qaeda’s resources are focused in Iraq because that’s where we are capturing and killing them every single day, so it drains their resources there,” she said. “[T]hey are very much tied down because we are keeping them tied down fighting them in Iraq.”
NPR host Steve Inskeep challenged Townsend, pointing out that al Qaeda had “no capability in Iraq before the war.” Townsend refused to answer the question, stating, “I don’t know — I wasn’t at that briefing.” She then added, “I’m going to rely on the intelligence community. … I would refer you to them.” Listen here:
CLICK HERE TO LISTENIt is widely known that al Qaeda was not operating in Iraq before 9/11. The Senate Intelligence Committee found that Saddam “did not trust al-Qa’ida or any other radical Islamist group and did not want to cooperate with them.”
Rather than tying down and draining al Qaeda’s resources in Iraq as Townsend said, the war has lured the the network to that country. The last NIE found that the “Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre” for jihadists,” “shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives.” Additionally, a new government threat assessment concludes that “Al-Qaeda has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since the summer of 2001,” and with strengthened capabilities to attack the United States.
Transcript:
INSKEEP: Now let me ask about another part of the world — Iraq. This report says that al Qaeda “will probably seek to leverage its contacts and capabilities” in Iraq. What abilities are you talking about?
TOWNSEND: Steve, I think it’s important that we at least refer to the entire sentence.
INSKEEP: Please, go ahead.
TOWNSEND: “[W]e assess that al-Qa’ida will probably seek to leverage the contacts and capabilities of al-Qa’ida in Iraq (AQI), its most visible and capable affiliate and the only one known to have expressed a desire to attack the Homeland.” It’s important that we understand that there’s al Qaeda central — al Qaeda core with bin Laden, Zawahiri, in the tribal areas — and we know that al Qaeda in Iraq is a direct capable affiliate of al Qaeda core. So that when the President says that al Qaeda in Iraq are the same people who tried to kill us, it’s al Qaeda writ large. The same al Qaeda that killed 3,000 Americans on Sept. 11.
INSKEEP: Well, you know that one of the intelligence officials that helped to draft this report has been briefing reporters, and has said that before the war in Iraq, al Qaeda had no capabilities in Iraq, and overwhelmingly now their resources are focused inside Iraq, not attacking the United States. Is that correct?
TOWNSEND: Al Qaeda’s resources are focused in Iraq because that’s where we are capturing and killing them every single day, so it drains their resources there. There’s no question that they’d like to try and extend their reach. And we see them trying to inspire like-minded affiliates, if you will, around the world in places like London and Glasgow. But they are very much tied down because we are keeping them tied down fighting them in Iraq.
INSKEEP: Is it correct that they had no capability in Iraq before the war?
TOWNSEND: I don’t know — I wasn’t at that briefing. I don’t know what the intelligence official said.
INSKEEP: Based on your information, is it correct they had no capability in Iraq before the war?
TOWNSEND: Steve, I’m going to rely on the intelligence community, just as this NIE is the consensus of the intelligence community. I rely on the office of the DNI for their intelligence.
INSKEEP: The Director of National Intelligence, you’re saying.
TOWNSEND: That’s right, and so I would refer you to them.
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She’s truly ignorant enough to be a conservative.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pm.
She didn’t read the NIE and won’t use her brain.
Surprise!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pmHeh…yes…I was fortunate enough to hear this interview this morning…Steve challenged her three times on her knowledge of Al-Qaeda’s capability in Iraq before the war, and her attempts at evasion made her sound like an idiot.
It’s all up there in the transcript, but do yourself a favor and listen to the actual audio…the print just doesn’t convey Townsend’s desperation. ^_^
July 18th, 2007 at 2:08 pmAnd the NYTimes… turns it around!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:09 pmDamn facts!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:12 pmAl Qaeda is a CIA phony created/concocted organization. Most of the bombings in Iraq are Shiite versus Sunni rivalry and revenge. Less than 10% of the violence has anything to do with foreigners, from other Islamic nations, such as Saudi Arabians.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThey were in NYC before the war in Iraq how do you explain that? I thought they hated us because of the war?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:13 pmAl Qaeda has a new country in which to recruit and hide. Thank you, President Bush. MORON.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:14 pmDuh.
Just plain effing Duh.
Why does she appear to be dumb as a box of bolts (without nuts or washers)
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmBush wanted Al Qaeda in Iraq, so he created not only a situation where Al Qaeda is in Iraq, but also there greatest and best recruiting and training tool. Way to go go defeat the terrorists.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmIt sounds like Bush and the Republicans have aided and abetted Al Qaeda…
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pm!!!LIAR!!!!!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmEither she is a lying hack or just plain stupid. Either way, having her as a Homeland Security Advisor does not breed confidence.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmThere were no al Qaeda in Iraq because Saddam would have squashed them like bugs. Also, we weren’t there (see comment #6). Ever notice wherever our government goes to fight them, al Qaeda is strong and so is the drug trade? the Boosh family never met a drug lord they didn’t love.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmThis woman doesn’t know here brass from her oboe…
July 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pmNote to war supporters: Affiliate is the key word. Saying that Al Qaeda in Iraq is the same as Al Qaeda is like saying Wichita Falls’ own Fox KJTL is the same as Fox News.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pmSo if we flee Iraq Al Qaeda will leave?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:18 pmThere’s no question that they’d like to try and extend their reach. And we see them trying to inspire like-minded affiliates, if you will, around the world in places like London and Glasgow. —— “like-minded affiliates’??? But Britain was with us in this fight, you know, fighting them there so that we….. damn, that didn’t work for the Brits, but it’ll still work for us, right?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:21 pmBut they are very much tied down because we are keeping them tied down fighting them in Iraq. —- Whew! Thanks for putting that fear to rest.
Am I the only one who’s a little creeped out by the administration’s new “buzzword” use of the term “Homeland”?
For instance, “the only one known to have expressed a desire to attack the Homeland.” I mean, they’re not looking to attack THEIR homeland. It just sounds a little… pre-war Germany, let’s say.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:22 pmCaption:
“See?
Here are my Wal-Mart receipts to prove I wasn’t at that meeting!”
“(PSSSSSSTTT…
July 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pmTownsend, put that down! Those are Donald Rumsfelds chemical weapons receipts Saddam gave him after THAT sale…..”
Would it not be more accurate to say that al Qaeda, using a handful of expendable fanatics, has the U.S. military “pinned down and taking casualties”?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:24 pmSADDAM HUSSEIN’S REGIME PROVIDED FINANCIAL support to Abu Sayyaf, the al Qaeda-linked jihadist group founded by Osama bin Laden’s brother-in-law in the Philippines in the late 1990s, according to documents captured in postwar Iraq. An eight-page fax dated June 6, 2001, and sent from the Iraqi ambassador in Manila to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Baghdad, provides an update on Abu Sayyaf kidnappings and indicates that the Iraqi regime was providing the group with money to purchase weapons. The Iraqi regime suspended its support–temporarily, it seems–after high-profile kidnappings, including of Americans, focused international attention on the terrorist group.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:27 pmGotta expression for ole Townsend:
Hey lady! Dumber than a box of rocks. Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree. In fact, you and my wife’s cat are really close in brightness on that christmas tree. In fact…see that bulb that’s out on the lower portion of the tree? Yep, that’s the one. No, that’s not you, that’s my cat Aerith. You and my wife’s cat Yuna? *points up to the orb of darkness enveloping the top half of the tree* THere ya are.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:27 pmyeah all the Homeland and “war czar” talk is pretty creepy coming from these jack booted Hitler wannabes. Oust them ALL!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pmHere is an interesting tidbit from TPM on the timing of that NIE released yesterday and today’s announcement of the capture of a “top leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq”:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015520.php
Interesting how they time all this so perfectly. They released that NIE just in time for the all-nighter in Congress, even releasing a copy early to the Press, after the WH refusing to declassify the last one a year ago except for ‘key judgements’. Now today they announce they conveniently captured a top guy in ‘Al Qaeda in Iraq’ who just happens to confess using the same talking points as the WH… (Though they actually captured him 2 weeks ago..) Curiouser and curiouser….
July 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pmAm I the only one who’s a little creeped out by the administration’s new “buzzword†use of the term “Homeland�
Comment by spit take — July 18, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
They’ve used all the other buzzwords up. Nobody buys them anymore.
I give “Homeland” two weeks at the most.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pmi’m surprized they are still going thru the motions after the repugs spouted and stomped their feet to stop the bill last night. And after they don’t even bother to show up to Congress when subpoenaed. Why do they care about ‘public opinion”?
The should just put a sign on the podium that says “f— off. you won’t do anything anyway”
That would be the first honest thing this administration had ever told us.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pmYeah that makes sense, they are there because that is where we are killing them….yeah thats it.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:30 pmIf I understand her reasoning correctly, then the US military is being used as BAIT. Is that correct? We may be killing them every day, but what is the net outcome of having our American sons and daughters stationed in the middle of Iraq as bait? At the end of the month have we killed more than have graduated from the training grounds of Iraq and returned home? I really don’t think so.
They treat this like the drug war. Every year we probably interdict more drugs, so they hold up that statistic as a meaningful measure. However every year far more illegal drugs not only enter this country but are increasingly produced domestically. So the net impact is really a negative in terms of law enforcement success.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:31 pmthat’s funny cuz everyone else in the entire world knows that they didnt show up until after we started demolishing Iraq
July 18th, 2007 at 2:31 pmI give “Homeland†two weeks at the most.
Comment by Egreggious
That is what Hitler used to refer to Germany.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pmTo be replaced by Der Fatherland!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pmFrank J’s logic at work:
Mr. Shrub: Those trees in the forest may be hiding termites, which are a threat to the forest and our house.
Mr. Smart: We’ve had professionals inspect the trees and there are no termites there.
Mr. Shrub: I dumped some gasoline on three of the trees and lit them on fire . . . that should take care of those termites.
Mr. Smart: But, you’ve made the situation WORSE. Now the trees are completely dead. They’ve become a BREEDING GROUND for termites. Our house is in greater danger now than before.
Mr. Shrub: Are you saying that if I stop lighting trees on fire those termites in the dead trees will go away? No? Then I’m going to stay the course and light more trees on fire.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pmIf all else fails, use the Abu Gonzo defense: “I don’t know. I don’t recall. I wasn’t there. It wasn’t me.” Are we done yet?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:33 pmMr Shrub Redux
Don’t question my authorita or I’ll set your house on fire!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pmThat is what Hitler used to refer to Germany.
Comment by willyloman — July 18, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Well, maybe “Homeland” is an accurate description, then.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pmMr Shrub Redux
Don’t question my authorita or I’ll set your house on fire!
Comment by RUCerious
“You’re either with us…or your house is on fire!”
July 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pmWell, maybe “Homeland†is an accurate description, then.
Comment by Egreggious
That would be the SECOND honest thing this administration has said.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:37 pmComment by Republicans Can’t Govern. — July 18, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Nice…as I was reading that, I actually heard in my head the part of “Mr. Shrub” being voiced by Jon Stewart doing his Chimpy impression…complete with the “eh heh heh heh” at the end. ^_^
July 18th, 2007 at 2:38 pm#
Here is an interesting tidbit from TPM on the timing of that NIE released yesterday and today’s announcement of the capture of a “top leader of Al Qaeda in Iraqâ€:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015520.php
Interesting how they time all this so perfectly. They released that NIE just in time for the all-nighter in Congress, even releasing a copy early to the Press, after the WH refusing to declassify the last one a year ago except for ‘key judgements’. Now today they announce they conveniently captured a top guy in ‘Al Qaeda in Iraq’ who just happens to confess using the same talking points as the WH… (Though they actually captured him 2 weeks ago..) Curiouser and curiouser….
Comment by JG — July 18, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
“But wait…there’s more!…”
Cash…to sooth the savage beast:
Feds give $1 billion to fix post-9/11 radio problems
July 18, 2007
BY DEVLIN BARRETT Associated Press
WASHINGTON—- The government announced Wednesday it will distribute nearly $1 billion to states and cities to fix communications problems that still plague police and fire departments six years after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
The biggest state recipients are California with $94 million, Texas with $65 million, and New York with $61 million.
In certain states, chunks will be specifically set aside for major cities: New York City will get $34.8 million and the Los Angeles/Long Beach area was awarded $22.3 million. Other cities getting specific amounts were: San Francisco Bay area, $14.5 million; Chicago, $16.2 million; Houston, $14.6 million; Jersey City-Newark, $17.5 million; and Washington, $11.9 million.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/473178,feds071807.article
As they say…timing is everything.
Chertoff = Terrorist.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:40 pm#40. Thanks. Next time I’ll add the “eh heh heh heh”s. That’ll make the tale complete.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:41 pmWhen the facts work against you, just lie!!!
Or blame Clinton
July 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pmI would rather “lure” AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:46 pmWhen the facts work against you, just lie!!!
Or blame Clinton
Comment by Crump’s Brother — July 18, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
I don’t have anything right now, so I’ll just say,
“Of course, Clinton only had the first option available to him.” :D
I’ll probably catch hell for that, but I’ll be gone anyway.
Catch you all soon.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:48 pmheard the interview as well — she came off as a hopeless spinmeister spinning herself and her Talbot’s suit into the ground. Really, can’t these people just once come clean. It’s insulting, especially when she is doing an interview with NPR. Hey, lady, the listeners at NPR are not like your Kool-Aid drinking vacant Cheeto-eaters who listen to O’Reilly or Limbaugh — Got it!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:48 pmHahah, I listened to that this morning. That woman was an idiot.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:48 pmI would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
Comment by Roger_Roger — July 18, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Can we please “lure” them to Sweden?
One word: Bikinis.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pmTiming is everything.
Truth is optional.
As my deceased Father used to say, ‘When you find yourself in a hole, you most likely dug it yourself’.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pmTownsend is just another young, garden-variety, bushlicking liar! Too young to have any sense of self-integrity and obviously told what to say. Maybe they’ve all had frontal lobotomies, too?
Of course, she knew that AQ was being kept out of Iraq by Saddam Hussein. EVERYONE knows that. What rock was Townsend living under if she claims that she didn’t know this?
Then again, how old was she back then?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm“Talbot’s suit” hahahahahahahaha!!!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm“I would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
Comment by Roger_Roger — July 18, 2007 @ 2:46 pm”
too bad the real world isn’t a zero-sum problem.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pmAQ is another Rove/Bush/Cheney creation. Do not be fooled.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
Comment by Roger_Roger Logic_Dodger— July 18, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
I would have rather attacked AQ in Afghanistan, weakened them, and then continue a mighty presence there to disrupt any form of resurgence, thus preventing another attack on New York, our Homeland!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pmThat’s just me though
#7 Mr. President
Well, alkaida’s there now, so they need to be handled.
Or, to put it another way: Now that some imbecile attacked a country that posed no threat to us, turned it into a breeding ground for terrorists and the reason that acts of terrorism have increased tenfold around the world, thoroughly screwed up every single decision made with respect to the occupation of that country and made it into a living hell for the people who have to live there, let’s leave that same imbecile with the responsibility for figuring out how to get rid of the terrorists.
Good thinkin’, Prez.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:52 pmI would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though. Comment by Roger_Roger
I would rather have captured bin Laden and brought him to justice. Bush promised to do so and failed. Now Bush doesn’t think about bin Laden much. I would rather shut down al Qaeda completely. Bush has instead allowed them to become stronger.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:52 pm#3 TripMaster: Wasn’t this a priceless interview? She dug her hole and continue to cover herself in it. We won’t be seeing Townsen parroting bush again any time soon.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:53 pmComment by ace — July 18, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Great post, ace…please keep up the good fight.
Here’s a few more links to add:
The first I’m sure you’ve seen already, but It’s always good for some perspective:
Olbermann Exposes Nexus of Politics and Terror
…and here’s one you might not have seen yet:
Proof Bin Laden Tape Is 5-Year-Old, Re-Released Footage
July 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pmNow that some imbecile attacked a country that posed no threat to us, turned it into a breeding ground for terrorists and the reason that acts of terrorism have increased tenfold around the world, thoroughly screwed up every single decision made with respect to the occupation of that country and made it into a living hell for the people who have to live there,
Comment by chimpeach — July 18, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Huh. Whodathunk that this occupation would make a country into a living hell, and a breeding ground for terrorists?
Ohhhhhh that’s right, the ones who weren’t blindly sucking a$$ with Bush and Cheney and Assosciates, that’s who!!!
July 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pmI would rather not have attacked anyone, anywhere,
and instead have treated others, and their cultures, and their natural resources;
with respect, therefore eliminating any fear of being attacked by them.
That’s just me, though…
July 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmAnd the daily forming groups who loathe us for what we’ve done and are continuing to do are increasing in number. Only logical, duh.
Biden brought this out today in his time on the floor. Good stuff. He called it “bush’s self-fulfilling prophesy” and the same can now be said about this country…..it’s tanking will be “bush’s self-fulfilling prophesy” since he tanked every business venture he’s ever touched.
Our supposed enemies have said that they “need to nothing” and that we will self-destuct. Looks pretty prophetic to me.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmIts all about the background!
http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com/
July 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmSounds like in the movie “Fun With Dick and Jane”, when Jim Carrey’s character – who has just been promoted, is on Money Talk or Moneyline or some show like that, spinning for his company reading off the talking points the company game him, while in a box off to the side you see the stock of the company going straight down and bursting into flames – because the company went belly up and they didn’t tell him what was really happening before he went on the air. He didn’t know he was being set up.
That just came to mind when reading about her interview.. That is what happens when my brain is sleep deprived..
July 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmTripMaster: I was thinking the same thing yesterday when the “supposed authentic BL tape appeared”…. do they really think that anyone is buying their crap any more? It was obviously a fake.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pmHuh. Whodathunk that this occupation would make a country into a living hell, and a breeding ground for terrorists?
Comment by DRxJ —
This scenario has been the end result of all occupations.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pmYou know they have such short memories and are such hypocrites..
We were for Saddam, before we were against him..
We were for Noriega, before we were against him..
We were for Bin Laden and al Qaeda, before we were against them..
Talk about your flip-flopping.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:00 pmDrxJ sez:
Exactly. I seem to remember everyone who had even an inkling of the political situation in Iraq shouting themselves hoarse about the ramifications of deposing this dictator (a dictator we installed ourselves, no less). Unfortunately, the administration wasn’t listening, not because they were stupid or stubborn, but because this is precisely the outcome they wanted.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:01 pm#44 Roger_Roger
I would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
That was an idiotic talking point the first couple of million times it was used. It hasn’t gotten any smarter, yet.
We’re “luring” al Qaeda to Iraq? First off, it wasn’t part of the plan to draw terrorists to Iraq, so don’t pretend that it was. It was a sad result that was predicted by intelligent people (the kind that Bush refuses to listen to) and it was allowed to happen anyway through sheer negligence.
And, how exactly would that keep them from going to New York? Al Qaeda are in countries all over the world. Al Qaeda have safe haven in Pakistan. What’s to stop them from coming to the U.S.?
It’s bad enough to see dim-witted trolls saying stupid things like that, but it really sucks when we have to hear the Republican asshats in the House and Senate spewing that drivel, as well.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:01 pm“I would rather “lure†AQ to Iraq instead of New York again. That’s just me though.
Comment by Roger_Roger”
i love “The Match Game.” my turn:
“I would rather the bush administration not send $750 million into pakistan’s tribal regions (where oversight would be impossible) since that’s where al qaeda has been allowed to thrive, thanks to a ‘truce’ musharraf signed last year. i also would have preferred that the bush administration expressed one iota of outrage over this.”
“I would rather the bush administration try and stop the flow of money and suicide bombers from saudi arabia to sunni-backed insurgency in iraq than simply make stuff up about iran. the majority of u.s. troop casualties are a result of the sunni insurgents.”
July 18th, 2007 at 3:02 pm#65 Raven
This scenario has been the end result of all occupations.
Japan and Germany?
July 18th, 2007 at 3:03 pmIt doesn’t matter where AQ is, or when it got there.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:04 pmIt doesn’t matter whether there were WofMD in Iraq before we dumped on it.
The simple truth is that Islamia had to be confronted sooner or later by the West, and better now than letting it fester for another generation.
Think Progress. Registration please….
So, Quijote, who are you really. Probably just another personality of Mr. P., CT, Jake, et al….
July 18th, 2007 at 3:06 pmJapan and Germany?
Comment by chimpeach
Thank you!
July 18th, 2007 at 3:08 pmI made a very general blanket statement without thinking it through.
We’re “luring†al Qaeda to Iraq? First off, it wasn’t part of the plan to draw terrorists to Iraq, so don’t pretend that it was. It was a sad result that was predicted by intelligent people (the kind that Bush refuses to listen to) and it was allowed to happen anyway through sheer negligence.
Think about this for a second. What if it WAS part of the plan – to lure the ‘terrorists’ and insurgents into Iraq. If we went in, took out Saddam, and everything worked perfectly, we wouldn’t have had a reason to stay in Iraq. That would never do. They never intended to leave. We NEEDED that ‘terrorist’ enemy to justify staying there to fight.
Perhaps that was why Rumsfeld threatened to fire ANYONE who came to him with a plan regarding post fall of Saddam. I think they needed the chaos. That gave them the need, reason and time to build all those bases, the most expensive embassy in the world, and build up the troop presence there.
This has crossed my mind more than once. These people who planned this war (and it was before 9/11 folks) have thought this out for a long time. They are not exactly trustworthy or honorable. They don’t have the interest of this nation, the American people, or our Constitution at heart. This is about globalization and empire building and it takes a long time and big ideas – and LOTS of money.
Just thinking out loud.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:09 pmmonkey spank is back from lunch
July 18th, 2007 at 3:10 pmMr. President has made up another personna, Quijote, in order to have a love fest for himself.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:12 pmComment by JG
I just posted something very similar to what you just wrote on my link. Called Morning. Check it out.
they will never leave Iraq. Even impeachment won’t stop them. They just won’t show up. And if Congress were to get it’s courage back or it’s hands out of the corporate pockets, this administration will do everything they can to “stay the course: to the “new middle east”.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:12 pmAnd, how exactly would that keep them from going to New York? Al Qaeda are in countries all over the world. Al Qaeda have safe haven in Pakistan. What’s to stop them from coming to the U.S.?
Comment by chimpeach — July 18, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Wiretapping my phone?
July 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pmWhen did facts ever bother a BushCo mouthpiece?
July 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pmCNN seems to be doing it’s best to help the administration link al-Qaeda in Iraq with Osama Bin Laden. They ran an article this morning trying to make that link through the capture of Khalid al-Mashadani but as usual they didn’t ask the essential questions:
Did Khalid al-Mashadani have actual contact Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The CNN article implies that’s the case, but doesn’t actually say that. I would think the big news would be that they had someone who knew where Bin Laden is hiding if that was the case.
Did Khalid al-Mashadani travel to Afghanistan?
If Bin Laden is in contact with Khalid al-Mashadani by phone, why isn’t he talking directly to al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Ayyub al-Masri instead?
If the contact is by internet, then calling any one person the intermediary just doesn’t make any sense. This story is really fulla holes. Someone needs to ask a lot more questions.
Just how is this guy an intermediary with Osama Bin Laden?
The the man who announced the capture, Brig. Gen. Kevin J. Bergner, was a personal assistant to George W. Bush in the Whitehouse until this spring.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pmAs long as there is money in the coffers and a line of credit with China, there will be an al Qaeda. A dark, hidden, nomadic enemy that can never be killed or even seen.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pmAnother ‘Stepford Witness’.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pmhttp://www.unknownnews.org/070702a-KevinGood.html
#75 Raven
I made a very general blanket statement without thinking it through.
That’s okay, you just forgot to put the qualifier in there:
This scenario has been the end result of all occupations that have ever been undertaken by maniacal right-wing dictators.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pmMr. President has made up another personna, Quijote, in order to have a love fest for himself.
Now cue the conversations with itself.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:16 pmPretty goddamn pathetic.
I don’t know, he got you guys with “Billy” last night. Kept that one up for hours.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:17 pm#81 Egreggious
Wiretapping my phone?
Oh yeah, I forgot. Spying on all Americans keeps us safe.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:19 pmthat have ever been undertaken by maniacal right-wing dictators.
Comment by chimpeach
yeah, yeah, that’s what I was trying to say…;)
In my mind I was in Mesopotamia, and witnessing the long march of invaders to troop through the fertile crescent, and understanding the sentiments of the inhabitants there……
July 18th, 2007 at 3:19 pmRaven sez:
The B-52’s – Mesopotamia
Turn your watch, turn your watch back,
about a hundred thousand years.
A hundred thousand years.
I’ll meet you by the third pyramid
I’ll meet you by the third pyramid
Ah come on, that’s what I want, we’ll meet
in Mesopotamia.
I ain’t no student,
of ancient culture
Before I talk
I should read a book.
But there’s one thing I do know,
There’s a lot of ruins in Mesopotamia.
Six or eight thousand years ago
They laid down the law.
Six or eight thousand years ago
They laid down the law.
I’ll meet you by the third pyramid
I’ll meet you by the third pyramid
Ah come on, that’s what I want, we’ll meet
in Mesopotamia.
Now I ain’t no student,
of ancient culture
Before I talk
I should read a book.
But there’s one thing that I do know,
There’s a lot of ruins in Mesopotamia.
Six or eight thousand years ago
July 18th, 2007 at 3:25 pmThey laid down the law.
Six or eight thousand years ago
They laid down the law.
In Mesopotamia.
They laid down the law.
In Mesopotamia.
#70
Germany and Japan were DESTROYED. Every fighting male was dead, imprisoned, or disarmed. All weapons, including large kitchen knives and bamboo spears, were confiscated. Millions of allied soldiers were in Germany and we had proven our willingness to use “The Bomb”. Yet, we still maintain PERMANENT bases in Germany and Japan. And, let’s not forget this, Germany and Japan were homogeneous nations in which civil war was unimaginable. I’m afraid there are no direct comparisons between WW2 and the occupation of Iraq.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:27 pmTownsend: “‘I Don’t Know’ If My Ass Was A Hole In The Ground Before The Iraq War”
July 18th, 2007 at 3:30 pmHey! I found a copy of the troll playbook! I’m going to try it out.
Tactic 14: Illusion of Numbers
It can be very effective, if the forum allows, to create alternate identities and establish conversation with them in order to create the illusion that a lot of people think like we do.
I’m going to try it.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:32 pmI’m going to try it.
Comment by mikey r — July 18, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Great idea, Mikey R! You’re a genius. I’m going to steal that idea, if you don’t mind.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:33 pmLet’s read further:
Be sure to change your screen name every time you post, or the plan will fail.
Oh, damn! I wish they’d said that first.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:34 pmI’m going to try it.
Comment by mikey r — July 18, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Great idea, Mikey R! You’re a genius. I’m going to steal that idea, if you don’t mind.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pmI would rather not have attacked anyone, anywhere,
July 18th, 2007 at 3:36 pmand instead have treated others, and their cultures, and their natural resources;
with respect, therefore eliminating any fear of being attacked by them.
That’s just me, though…
Comment by Raven
BEST POST!!
Comment by mikey p — July 18, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
That was fun. Good, clean fun.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:37 pmmikey p, er I mean r, I hope you can share more of that playbook with us. (Actually, that reminds me that I did buy a little red covered book which laid out the neocon’s strategy for manipulating public opinion. I’ll have to dig that out.)
July 18th, 2007 at 3:40 pmYeah mikey r, you’re the best. And PLC, try to find that book and share it with us. We need to know the enemy.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:43 pmWe need to know the enemy.
Comment by LiberalChristianPatriotic(LCP) — July 18, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Karl-Rove-looking teenage boys in basements wearing Mommy’s dress and a soiled diaper.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:46 pmNo problem, PLC. But it’s all pretty familiar stuff:
Tactic 1: Straw Men
Tactic 2: Blame Clinton
Tactic 3: Change Subject
Tactic 4: Blame Clinton Again
Tactic 5: Up Is Down
You know — the usual. The strange thing is, I can’t find a directive on name-jacking a dead soldier and claiming his buddy is lying about his army service, anywhere in here. That one must have been improvised.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:47 pmThe strange thing is, I can’t find a directive on name-jacking a dead soldier and claiming his buddy is lying about his army service, anywhere in here. That one must have been improvised.
Comment by mikey r — July 18, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
That’s in the super-duper extra-classified for-troll’s-eyes-only version.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:49 pm“I don’t know!!!!”
I’m only here to lie for WAR CRIMINALS, and if I tell you the TRUTH, you will KNOW that they are WAR CRIMINALS and TRAITORS to the USA…
So, I don’t “know”
July 18th, 2007 at 3:50 pmAnd
Coxucker!
July 18th, 2007 at 3:52 pm“…In Mesopotamia.”
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Shake that Cosmic Thing!
July 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pmAnd
Coxucker!
Comment by Egreggious
Bush is POSOLUTELY and ABSITIVELY a coxucker!
July 18th, 2007 at 3:55 pmThanks, mikey r, although my “request” was just playing along with your post. Anyway, I enjoyed the diversion and laugh. Gotta get on the road.
July 18th, 2007 at 3:58 pmLet me try this again:
Shouldn’t this read: “Townsend: ‘I Don’t Know’ If My Ass Was A Hole In Iraq Before The War”?
July 18th, 2007 at 4:14 pmI would rather not have attacked anyone, anywhere,
and instead have treated others, and their cultures, and their natural resources;
with respect, therefore eliminating any fear of being attacked by them.
That’s just me, though…
Comment by Raven
BEST POST!!
Comment by Juan C — July 18, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Fantastic. That’s the best thing I ever read, Raven.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:15 pmThanks everyone.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:16 pmSo simple a solution…
I agree with Zooey and Juan C, Raven. Your post said it beautifully.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:17 pmRaven sez:
Rather reminds me of that great quote from Sneakers:
July 18th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Fantastic. That’s the best thing I ever read, Raven.
Comment by Zooey — July 18, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
It’s certainly a noble sentiment.
Though I must admit I would not have despaired too much if we had actually taken out Bin Laden.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:20 pmEgreggious sez:
Oh, don’t worry, Egreggious…bin Laden died in 2001 (although you won’t catch the administration admitting it…).
July 18th, 2007 at 4:21 pmThanks for the correction, TMM!
July 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pmhttp://www.alternet.org/story/57001/
She would fit right in here.
Neocons on a Cruise: What Conservatives Say When They Think We Aren’t Listening
By Johann Hari, Independent UK. Posted July 17, 2007.
The Iraq war has been an amazing success, global warming is just a myth and Guantanamo Bay is practically a holiday camp. The annual cruise organized by the ‘National Review,’ mouthpiece of right-wing America, is a parallel universe populated by straight-talking, gun-toting, God-fearing Republicans.
I’ll add the Racist, Homophobe “But Gay”, Jesus freak Crazies who were no doubt on this cruise.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pm“I don’t know — I wasn’t at that briefing.”
The kind of absurd, lame, and flat-out brain dead stupid excuse only a Bush official can cook up and believe they can get away with. The sort that would get anyone fired from their job.
Of course, for the Bush cultists, that is a powerful reason for not knowing whether or not AlQaeda was in Iraq prior to the invasion -the bar is never low enough for the Bush administration and their minions.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:25 pm“Though I must admit I would not have despaired too much if we had actually taken out Bin Laden.”
Comment by Egreggious
The philosophy I outlined would have pre-empted the creation of an OBL type individual.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:30 pm(Theoretically of course…)
Addendum to my previous post:
Sad things is, they do get away with claiming incompetence, and get rewarded for it too.
::sigh::
July 18th, 2007 at 4:30 pmThe philosophy I outlined would have pre-empted the creation of an OBL type individual.
(Theoretically of course…)
Comment by Raven — July 18, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
True.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:31 pmThat’s a damn good point you raise, Gregor Samsa.
I mean, Jeezus, this is the Homeland Security Advisor to the WH, and she doesn’t know if al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to our invasion?
Isn’t that the kind of knowledge that might reasonably be expected to fall within her responsibilities? I mean, even if she wasn’t at “that briefing” there are other ways of getting information, and many, many public officials who are not able to attend ALL briefings and meetings find ways to gather the information presented at the ones they missed.
You’re right. It’s completely lame. But also completely in character for a Bush administration official.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:41 pmI mean, Jeezus, this is the Homeland Security Advisor to the WH, and she doesn’t know if al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to our invasion?
Comment by spit take — July 18, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
Hell, she could have asked me! I should send her my phone number.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmHey there, Egreggious!
July 18th, 2007 at 4:48 pmThis administration has made incompetence a virtue.
If we come to find out that they haven’t been planning for this situation and that they are hiding the records and not testifying because they are scared we will find out they are simply stupid (as opposed to criminal and greedy) then we will all be relieved to the point of celebration in the streets.
Hooray! They’re not Nazis! They’re just stupid. yea!
And that is an amazing accomplishment for any administration.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pmHow’s it going, Egreggious!
Man these leftards are nuts, huh?
July 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pmYou said it, Egreggious.
By the way, I agree with everything you say.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:50 pmMe, too!
Love and kisses.
I have to go feed my mom’s cat.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pmEgreggious. Aren’t you supposed to make up some name, like say…Billy? for that to work?
July 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pmSorry I stepped on your meaningful comment there, Salesman.
I’m bored.
Not sure why I don’t go do somethng else.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pmI think willyloman is right, Egreggious. Billy might work. Or maybe something in Latin.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pmThe 4 “tite ass..constipated sisters, Dana, Frances, Monica ‘n Sara, asingin’ that hit written by, Loose hips’d diarrhea mouth Coulter, titled “We, et al, doesn’t giveashit ’bout no Constitution, laws, rules ennymore. Big dancin’ hit inna red states, the udder being cuntfusion.
July 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmIt’s not a left-right spectrum. It’s a smart-dumb spectrum.
Example: Bill Clinton has an IQ of around 180. George W. Bush has an IQ oof around 90, not counting brain damage from years of drugs and alcohol.
That means their guy is LITERALLY half as smart as ours!
That’s why the White House imploded when George W. Bush took office.
Democrats are easily 20 to 30 IQ points smarter than Republicans. Republicans don’t know this because 1) they have bloated egos, and
July 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm2) they’re stupid.
Comment by spit take — July 18, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
Yes, the Homeland Security Advisor, no less.
She should have been at the briefing -doing the debriefing, for crying out loud. If not, it is her job to look for the bloody information so she can better advise whoever needs to be advised.
How can she not know? That excuse is ridiculous. I’d laugh if it wasn’t so tragic and this whole mess hadn’t been so deadly for so many people.
But then, incompetence is the hallmark of this administration. Maybe she has a background in race horse associations or something.
(Even I could have told them AlQaeda wasn’t in Iraq prior to the invasion. Many of us could have…. ssheessshhh…. )
July 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmNot sure why I don’t go do somethng else.
Comment by Egreggious
TP is like crack. :D
July 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pmTP is like crack. :D
Comment by Zooey — July 18, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
I still can’t get the picture of McCain’s ass out of my head.
And Condi wth an icepick.
What’s that about?
July 18th, 2007 at 5:17 pmYou know somethings is in the wind the WH brings out a real, real good liar like Fran Townsend….
July 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm#138, yeah, as if Tony Faux or Dana whatsername aren’t skilled enough prevaricators.
July 18th, 2007 at 5:37 pmInskeep actually challenged a neocon talking point? When did he grow a set of ‘nads?
Let’s hope his behavior wasn’t an exception, but the start of a much-needed course correction.
July 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pmWell, alkaida’s there now, so they need to be handled.
Comment by Mr. President — July 18, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
So please go and handle them, Mr. Pee. No one is stopping you, and you are apparently a young, big guy.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:26 pmAnd, let’s not forget this, Germany and Japan were homogeneous nations in which civil war was unimaginable. I’m afraid there are no direct comparisons between WW2 and the occupation of Iraq.
Comment by pete — July 18, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
We should also not forget that both Germany and Japan had some experience with parliamentary democracy before the militarists took over, which is another way in which they are not comparable to Iraq.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:28 pmNPR host Steve Inskeep challenged Townsend, pointing out that al Qaeda had “no capability in Iraq before the war.†Townsend refused to answer the question, stating, “I don’t know — I wasn’t at that briefing.†She then added, “I’m going to rely on the intelligence community. … I would refer you to them.â€
And this is our Homeland Security Advisor talking?!?!? WTF, do we have another “You’re doing a heck of a job” Brownie in this post? What exactly are her qualifications for such an important-sounding post? Gazillions in contributions to the RNC? Hand-jobs every morning for the Deciderator-in-Chief?
<*GAG*>
FWIW, I have other comments on this brain-dead maladministration flunky over on my blog….
Cheers,
July 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pmI still can’t get the picture of McCain’s ass out of my head.
And Condi wth an icepick.
What’s that about?
Comment by Egreggious
I think I’m just not going there…. :D
July 18th, 2007 at 7:06 pmWhat exactly are her qualifications for such an important-sounding post?
Comment by zuch@ix.netcom.com — July 18, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
I would guess a “degree” from a Christian “colledge? calhodge? skool?” you know, that place that teaches the “Trooth”.
July 18th, 2007 at 8:31 pmI particularly appreciate her “I-wasn’t-at-that-briefing logic”.
It used to work for me back in the 5th grade: “But, teacher, you can’t ask me that! You know, I was not in school when we did fractions!”
July 18th, 2007 at 9:42 pmTownsend: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Al Qaeda Was In Iraq Before The War »
\Is the Townsend tart aware of the 9/11 and ith ISG report?
If the tart could read, she may have notices that both reports debunked ANY links between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
In this Bush Administration, the women are whores and the men have their lips stuck on Bush’s ass.
July 18th, 2007 at 9:43 pmOh, who do we have here ? Another player ? Yes, another member of the Theatre of the Absurd…..da da dum…
July 18th, 2007 at 10:40 pm“Yesterday’s National Intelligence Estimate concluded that al Qaeda remains strong in Iraq and has been energized by the Iraq war.”
The NIE wasn’t accurate by a long shot in November 2002, so what makes this report any more reliable?
July 18th, 2007 at 11:29 pmI see no one swung at this soft-ball…so I’ll be your huckleberry.
Al-Qaeda is also in Lebanon, Somlia, Sudan, Algeria, Indonesia, Bosnia, and last but not least, Pakistan
…but let’s put all our eggs in the Iraqi basket…afterall, it’s a Bush fulfilling prophecy don’t ya know.
Either you were being sarcastic with your comment (in which event I apologize), or you’re a Chimpy leg-humper…what say you?
Signed,
July 19th, 2007 at 12:50 amBill O’Reilly
I’m so sick of administration members claiming “I don’t know”. Why won’t the media follow up with the obvious question…”You don’t know because you were not at the briefing? Isn’t it part of your job to find out what was discussed at all briefings, even ones before you were in your current position? If you don’t have all the pertinent information, how can you stand before the media and pretend you understand what these reports mean?”
Just once, at a press briefing or at one of these congressional hearings I want ones of these liars to be called on their bullsh*t. It would be so easy and so effective, and so gratifying.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:49 pmI listened to this “interview”. She is a typical repuke shill. She refused to answer a question with a yes or no. Makes you want to toss the radio out the window when these people are on. She is covering her boss’s butt just like the rest of the trolls.
July 19th, 2007 at 7:43 pm