Attacks on Gore backfire.
Attacks on Gore backfire.
Yesterday, conservatives across the blogosphere, citing a People magazine article and a poorly-researched Austrailian Daily Telegraph article, smeared Al Gore by claiming that he ate Chilean Sea Bass — a threatened species – at a rehearsal dinner for his daughter’s wedding. Attempting to paint Gore as an environmental hypocrite, BlogsForBush, NewsBusters, and others expressed outrage over the hypocrisy. But, as the Telegraph reports today, “Al Gore’s fish dinner turns out green“:
[T]he fish enjoyed by the Gores were not endangered or illegally caught.
Rather, the restaurant later confirmed, they had come from one of the world’s few well-managed, sustainable populations of toothfish, and caught and documented in compliance with Marine Stewardship Council regulations.
More information about how to live an environmentally sustainable lifestyle is available HERE.
Topic Cloud
Of course, now that we know it’s wrong, we’ll be hearing about it forever.
Facts mean nothing to these people.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:35 pm.
It wasn’t that he was eating illegally caught fish, it was that he was eating a threated species at all.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:38 pmCue reichwing mouthbreathers panting about how Global Warming is a sinister leftist plot involving virtually all of the world’s climatologists, led by the devious “Goracle”, in 3…2…1…
July 19th, 2007 at 12:39 pmsquegeeboo sez:
Honestly…all you need to do is read…
July 19th, 2007 at 12:41 pm“the fish enjoyed by the Gores were not endangered”
OK, squegeeboo, you can admit your mistake (I know it was not a deliberate troll tactic).
July 19th, 2007 at 12:41 pmThey don’t like what Al Gore says, so they call him a hypocrite for eating fish and living in a big house. Just like they don’t like what Micheal Moore says, so they say he can’t comment about health care because he’s fat. And wealthy people like John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry can’t advocate for poor people because they are wealthy… blah, blah, blah… It’s just so predictable and boring.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:41 pmThe Thugs have come all the way down to jumping on Gore’s fish?
July 19th, 2007 at 12:42 pmI noticed a huge up tick in chest beating wingers after the Libby commutation , but this has to be parody.
It wasn’t that he was eating illegally caught fish, it was that he was eating a threated species at all.
What part of “well-managed, sustainable populations of toothfish” is beyond your comprehension, exactly?
July 19th, 2007 at 12:43 pm.
“It wasn’t that he was eating illegally caught fish, it was that he was eating a threated species at all.”
Squeeg, buddy…which part of “well managed” and “sustainable” don’t you get?
Go eat yourself…be extinct…
July 19th, 2007 at 12:43 pmIf only we called it by it’s normal common nane, Patagonian toothfish nobody would eat it. As a partime advisor to a seafood proveyor on sustainable fisheries I can not say I know of any sustainable populations of toothfish however I will have to look into it. In the meantime please avoid this species along with all shark, orange roughy, and all billfish as well as many others. I would also encourage you all to investigate the problems involved in the farming of many species including but not limited to shrimp and salmon. Although expensive, when possible single hook caught fishes are your best bet.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:44 pmOn a related note.. I don’t understand why anyone thinks that global warming is a political issue…
July 19th, 2007 at 12:44 pmKEEP focusing on $400 haircuts, 100 mph Prius’, $1500 electric bills, and Chilean Seabass while the True Patriots focus on our mangled Constitutuion,Healthcare,the Iraq debacle, the declining Dollar, Slumping wages,torture, the compromised DOJ, top to bottom corruption etc. etc. F’ ing Reichwing Loooooozers.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:44 pmWild Patagonian toothfish (Chilean Sea Bass) is endangered. It is illegal to hunt or fish this species. They are grown in fisheries, but the fisheries themselves are criticized for drowning endangered bid species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonian_toothfish
July 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pmGore eats fish.
Neoturds smell like fish.
DeLay smells like sewage.
Ted Stevens smells like he’s dead.
The Dukester is dead.
Bush is brain dead.
Cheney smells like Tuna.
KKKarl smells like Jeff Gannon.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pmDo ya’ll actually think that the truth matters to these people?
They’ll believe anything that they want to believe. That’s what being a propagandist is all about.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:47 pmWhat mistake?
Globally the tooth fish is a threatened species, if there are well managed stocks they should be using those to boost other populations, not for eating.
As an aside, I really don’t care, although I’m more of a shark/tuna steak fan myself, but the report still seems accurate. He was eating a threatened species.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:47 pmI can’t get anyone to eat my Snapper
July 19th, 2007 at 12:49 pmdbadass sez:
I prefer pike and walleye myself, although perch is certainly tasty too. ^_^
July 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pmUmmm How long has Chilean Sea bass been protected?
Also, what’s worse?
Eating threatened Chilean Sea Bass? Or eating something called toothfish? (i’ve never heard of toothfish)
And what kind of maniac would threaten a fish? That’s just wrong.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pm#12 - I encourage to focus on hypocrisy wherever they can find it. If Dave Vitter yells “family values” out of one side of his mouth while sucking on hookers with the other side, then I want people to point that out. If Dubya talks about freedom and democracy while destroying freedom and democracy, I want to know (that one’s most important). If John Edwards talks up and down about helping the poor, then gets $400 haircuts, I want to know. If Al Gore is preaching to everyone to stop putting so much carbon in the atmosphere, then lives a lifestyle that puts way more carbon into the atmosphere than most people, then I’d like to know.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pmSGT Higgins
July 19th, 2007 at 12:51 pmEating threatened Chilean Sea Bass? Or eating something called toothfish? (i’ve never heard of toothfish)
Toothfish is Chilean Sea Bass.
Also known as ‘Merluza Negra’ and mero depending on where you are globally.
#19 - Chilean Sea Bass = Patagonian toothfish.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:51 pmSame fish.
How many people died in Iraq in the time it took that humane society yutz to write her stupid post and for the right-wing noise machine to pick up on it and kick-start their fake outrage motors? Do you think the evildoers who will follow us home if we don’t stay and keep dying in Iraq GARA about sea bass? The world is laughing at us, and rightly so.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pmFor those interested in issues related to toothfish consider “Hooked: Pirates Poaching and the Perfect Fish” by G. Bruce Knecht
July 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThe only way Republicans can get elected is by character assassination, since they can’t run on their failed policies…
July 19th, 2007 at 12:55 pmAlejandro, how does Edwards’ $400 haircut effect the poor? How is that hypocrisy?
July 19th, 2007 at 12:56 pmComment by squegeeboo — July 19, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Thanks, that cleared that up.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pmYou are right #20 Alejandro, in principle, but the individual hypocracy is given much more weight than it deserves, drowning out critical issues that effect the well being of millions.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pmYes, we know it’s the same fish, it’s just gross to eat something called a “toothfish”
and people who are all upset about this.. are you upset because it may be immoral, yet apparently perfectly legal, to eat this fish that is endangered, or are you all upset because Al Gore did it?
I don’t claim to understand this.. it’s apparently endangered, yet there is a population somewhere that is apparently doing well enough to warrant killing and eating? Doesn’t seem endangered anymore.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThe House Natural Resources Committee has invited Vice President Dick Cheney to a hearing examining his “role in influencing scientific and policy decisions at the Department of the Interior.†The hearing will focus on “Cheney’s intervention in the development of a 10-year water plan for the Klamath River,†revealed in a recent Washington Post series, which resulted in the “collapse of the West Coast salmon-fishing industry.†July 17, 2007 3:50 pm | Comment (33)
Filed under:
Posted by Think Progress July 17, 2007 3:50 pm
Permalink | Comment (33)
Say no more, say no more…………
July 19th, 2007 at 12:58 pmAl, he also drives a nice car!
July 19th, 2007 at 12:58 pmThat darn hypocrite!
He wears expensive suits, too. Oh my gosh!
If Edwards is going to talk about poverty, he should have to live in a ghetto and get his clothes from WalMart. Otherwise, he’s a hypocrite!
Please…
Dude, they create the stock farms for the express purpose of providing an alternate source for consumers while letting the species rebound naturally - scientists won’t artificially try to regenerate a species unless the situation is past dire and/or the species is important to an ecosystem.
Don’t you know what happens when farmed animals are released into the wild? They die and/or introduce variables that can have unintended consequ– ah, Jesus Christ, I can’t believe we have to deal with these idiots!
July 19th, 2007 at 12:59 pmWild Patagonian toothfish (Chilean Sea Bass) is endangered. It is illegal to hunt or fish this species. They are grown in fisheries, but the fisheries themselves are criticized for drowning endangered bid species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonian_toothfish
Comment by Alejandro
Alejandro, that article doesn’t sustain the notion that toothfish are endangered. It does say that illegal fishing threatens the population, but that legal sustainable fishing is possible.
The reference to bird deaths is to the technique known as long-line fishing and is not specific to this species of fish.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:00 pmI hope you’re not referring to me coda, because what you related can not be considered common knowledge. I was unaware of these happenings.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:01 pmidiocy abounds on both sides
I don’t claim to understand this.. it’s apparently endangered, yet there is a population somewhere that is apparently doing well enough to warrant killing and eating? Doesn’t seem endangered anymore.
Think Buffalo in the United States, a protected or endangered species, but there are also Buffalo ranches, where they are raised/slaughtered just like normal cattle because those ranches are sustainable, and people like eating Buffalo (it’s tasty). In this case there is apparently a fishing area off of Southern Georgia (the country, not state) where the species is doing well enough to fish commercially, as opposed to most other areas where it’s threatened.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pmWhat about the gross hypocracy of the “culture of life” starting a pre-emptive war that has resulted in the deaths of untold thousands of innocent men, women and children? Does that rise to the level of “toothfish outrage”?
How about Guiliani and Brownback being Catholic, but pro-war, pro-death penalty? In Guilini’s case, divorced, aldulterous, prolife and pro-gay? In Brownback’s case, anti-evolution? Are we in “sea bass outrage” territory yet?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pmThank you, I didn’t know this is how it worked; it makes sense now.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pmgummitch
Dude, you missed the very next sentence or two about that fishery:
“Illegal catches may be up to five times the legal catch limit. As a direct result, some researchers have predicted a total collapse of the fishery within two to five years”
July 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pmHmmm. I bought myself a $ 600 bike recently and stopped driving a car unless absolutely necessary. Qualifies me for environmental debates, but I better shut up about poverty? Is that it?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:04 pmYes, we know it’s the same fish, it’s just gross to eat something called a “toothfishâ€
You may wish to consider any truth in menu laws in your state. Most seenm to have few if any. It is very common to come up with cute names for less appealing ones. In a restaurant I used to work in we once ran “golden sea bass in pappiote” rather than it’s real name tilefish. Upon our creative name change we sold out, prior to that we couldn’t give it away. As more and more popular fish stocks continue to be depleted and the industry moves toward more formerly less desirable species you can expect more of this. Some time ago there was a push to market dogfish (sand shark) under the name “cape shark” in the east
July 19th, 2007 at 1:04 pmThis from the Republicans who took the bald eagle off the endangered species list so they could plunder their habitat for oil, timber or whatever else would make Bush cronies money.
If the fish was taken legally from a managed fishery what is the issue? There is none.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:05 pmBut…but…but…
It was a fish! And he did eat it! It doesn’t matter what kind of fish - all fish are equal in god’s eyes. al Gore is a “fishist” Why does Al Gore hate fish?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:07 pmThink Buffalo in the United States, a protected or endangered species, but there are also Buffalo ranches, where they are raised/slaughtered just like normal cattle because those ranches are sustainable, and people like eating Buffalo (it’s tasty). In this case there is apparently a fishing area off of Southern Georgia (the country, not state) where the species is doing well enough to fish commercially, as opposed to most other areas where it’s threatened.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 19, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Could I please get a source on this? I am not challenging you but need this info as part of my job. I have not heard of this and quite frankly the habitat does not seem correct. There are many distinct species which are lumped together as “sea bass”
July 19th, 2007 at 1:07 pmdoro
Hmmm. I bought myself a $ 600 bike recently and stopped driving a car unless absolutely necessary. Qualifies me for environmental debates, but I better shut up about poverty? Is that it?
600$ for a bike? You Captain of Industry you.
Good for you, been car free for just over a year myself, but that was more of a fitness/health for me than the world decision.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pmDynamite drop in Mr. President; didn’t bother to understand what’s actually going on at all. Way to perpetuate the notion that you’re an idiot.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pmComment by Mr. President — July 19, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
Do you inflate her by electric pump? If not, just save your breath for your girlfriend.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pmSo, squegeeboo, should we (and I include myself) stop eating Buffalo meat because overall the species is protected or endangered? Or should people stop trying to manufacture hypocrisy by Al Gore?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pmhow else can they get poor redneck Red State Americans to vote against their own self interest without pushing the buttons of character assassination. most are too busy surviving
July 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmI find it kind of funny that the Right is so afraid of Gore and the mention of GW because of its impact on their short term profits and the promises they have made to the energy cartel, that they snipe from all their Rove-controlled blogs.
Maybe it shows they are in the “final throes of Repug insurgency!”
July 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmCheney eats baby Harp seal burgers, or Bald eagle McNuggets (when an errant shot - intended for a close friend - misses it’s mark and brings one down).
July 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmOne good thing about this, is that it may shine some light on the potential global of commercial fisheries worldwide. Tragedy of the commons, and all that.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmdbadass
Could I please get a source on this?
Here you go:
July 19th, 2007 at 1:11 pmWikipedia for the fish, its been posted a few times above but here it is again.
Heres stuff on American Bison, it looks like I may be incorrect as to their exact endangered/threatened/ok to eat status
Cheney eats baby Harp seal burgers, or Bald eagle McNuggets (when an errant shot - intended for a close friend - misses it’s mark and brings one down).
Hahaha. That’s great!
July 19th, 2007 at 1:12 pmOne good thing about this, is that it may shine some light on the potential global of commercial fisheries worldwide.
Gah. Typo. I mean the potential global collapse of commercial fisheries worldwide.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:12 pmOh no! We’re having buffalo teriyaki tomorrow. Now I’ve had it, guess I might as well drive the car again, and leave the lights on.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:12 pmThat’s ’cause it’s spoiled. One would have to hold one’s nose and eat it with some of Ann Althouse’s onion rings.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:13 pmGlobally the tooth fish is a threatened species, if there are well managed stocks they should be using those to boost other populations, not for eating.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 19, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
Squegeeboo, based on all of the comments on this thread so far, it sounds like you have a good point.
Consider, however, that well-managed stocks of species like this would be much more difficult to fund and maintain were it not for commercial uses for the stock. In short, wise management of fisheries is crucial to the survival of the oceans and in providing food for our table at the same time.
Your suggestion of “they should be using those to boost other populations, not for eating” is the kind of all-or-nothing binary choice that works well in debate, not so well in the real world.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:13 pmHis mansion wastes much more energy than George W. Bush’s humble abode.
Comment by Mr. President
One more time Peabrain and friends. He pays more for energy because he buys only renewable energy. And his abode houses his office and Tipper’s office which would use energy also if located outside the abode.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:14 pmDude, you missed the very next sentence or two about that fishery:
“Illegal catches may be up to five times the legal catch limit. As a direct result, some researchers have predicted a total collapse of the fishery within two to five yearsâ€
Comment by squegeeboo
I didn’t miss it at all. But “threatened species” is not the same as a failed commercial fishing industry. Generally speaking, fisheries require massive amounts of fish to stay commercially viable and the industry collapses well before the sustainability of the population is at risk.
I’m not suggesting, however, that eating Chilean sea bass under any name is a good plan.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:14 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
So, squegeeboo, should we (and I include myself) stop eating Buffalo meat because overall the species is protected or endangered?
Heck no, like I said, it’s tasty.
Or should people stop trying to manufacture hypocrisy by Al Gore?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:15 pmAs an environmentalist he’s eating a threatened fish, seems to go against the live what you preach kinda stuff.
If one of the Christian right hired prostitutes or did drugs were it’s legal would that count as manufactured hypocrisy, or would it still be an OMG! moment for the left?
Hey shane, how’s LA?
The trollies are skeered of Al Gore!!
July 19th, 2007 at 1:16 pmspit take
is the kind of all-or-nothing binary choice that works well in debate, not so well in the real world.
Good thing we are on the interweb then :) I’m aware I tend to advocate a binary choice around here, I think it makes it more fun.
gummitch
I’m not suggesting, however, that eating Chilean sea bass under any name is a good plan.
What? To chewy?
Didn’t realize that about fishery collapse vs. sustainability collapse, thanks for the info.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:19 pmOne good thing about this, is that it may shine some light on the potential global of commercial fisheries worldwide.
Gah. Typo. I mean the potential global collapse of commercial fisheries worldwide.
Comment by Luis M — July 19, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
A frightening but way overlooked issue!!
thanks squegeeboo. I actually have to head out to start cuttin’ fish right now. I am new to this new facility and am hoping to start a newsletter to our customers relative to fisheries issues in hopes that the buyers will choose alternatives. I do not see the industry changing unless driven by educated consumers. I can’t pull up my copy of it or it’s name but a great seafood cookbook came out a few years ago whose title was a take off on the old “One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish”. It’s a great source for those seeking to make the best choices when tackling these issues
July 19th, 2007 at 1:19 pmFor two days we’ve been running around like crazy people taking care of business. Today I might actually have time to enjoy LA.
Trolls are skeered of all who speak the truth to the Bushco lies. It points out how stupid they’ve been to believe the party line and they are in deep denial.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pmHis mansion wastes much more energy than George W. Bush’s humble abode.
Comment by Mr. President
One more time Peabrain and friends. He pays more for energy because he buys only renewable energy. And his abode houses his office and Tipper’s office which would use energy also if located outside the abode.
Comment by shane
You can’t win an argument with the wingnuts on the subject of Gore and his housing, and certainly not with facts. Unlike their hero, GWB, Gore is not perfect, but he is learning and his behavior changes as he learns. For example, the house resides in a development that prohibited the use of solar cells for energy, but that regulation has changed, and the cells are being (or have been) installed.
I personally don’t want a “leader” who is perfect; I want a leader who continues to learn and grow, and I’ve been seeing that from Gore over the last few years.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:21 pmFor all who disagree with Gore eating a member of a threatened species…remember, first of all that the individual in question was supplied from a well-managed, sustainable population.
Second, although the article is silent on this issue, I’m wondering how much Gore paid for that fish, and where the proceeds went. I’m betting they went toward the maintenance and support of the management of the population.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:23 pmI personally don’t want a “leader†who is perfect; I want a leader who continues to learn and grow, and I’ve been seeing that from Gore over the last few years.
Comment by gummitch
Amen to that. I think they keep slamming Gore to keep him from running for President. The best way for him to get even is to run.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:24 pmdbadass
thanks squegeeboo. I actually have to head out to start cuttin’ fish right now
No prob, enjoy! Just don’t do the Bart Simpson fish song, that might freak people out, if I remeber right it was something along the lines of “Knife goes in, guts come out”
July 19th, 2007 at 1:25 pmActually, no..he’s eating a threatened species, not a threatened fish. The fish he actually has no threat of extinction (ie the commercially grown) the wild version does.
Which is debatable as hypocrisy since if more people made a choice to eat the commercially grown and NOT the wild species, the demand for the wild species would go down and the fishing for it should become non-profitable (although, it’s always amazing to me how shortsighted humans are when it comes to “profit”) and hence the wild species should start to flourish again.
That’s all in theory, hence debtable. But I doubt it’s anywhere close to a Christian pushing morals and then using prostitutes for gratifcation aka Vitter.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:25 pmsquegeeboo
As this thread points out pretty clearly, identifying whether a particular species is or is not “endangered” or “environmentally correct to eat” is difficult. It appears that Gore may have eaten fish that he was told or thought was the latter but his detractors jumped on the former label to fault him.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:26 pmAs long as Gore is not a vegan, they’ve sort of got a point.
Eating meat is more harmful to the Earth than driving an SUV, you know.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:26 pmI’m aware I tend to advocate a binary choice around here, I think it makes it more fun.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 19, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
It does tend to rile up progressives, since we are by nature not black-and-white thinkers. And conflict is more entertaining than harmony (I think barber shop quartets prove that conclusively). So I understand your tendency.
But binary choices don’t often get very close to reality.
It’s a trade-off.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:30 pmThey don’t like what Al Gore says, so they call him a hypocrite for eating fish and living in a big house. Just like they don’t like what Micheal Moore says, so they say he can’t comment about health care because he’s fat. And wealthy people like John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry can’t advocate for poor people because they are wealthy… blah, blah, blah… It’s just so predictable and boring.
Comment by lw — July 19, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
What we need is a thin, non-fish-eating, poor guy with no house to be our spokesperson.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:30 pmHrr?
made a choice to eat the commercially grown and NOT the wild species
In this case, I believe the fishery is a ‘wild fishery’ as opposed to a fish farm, where illegal fishing in the fishery accounts for possibly 5 times the amount caught legally.
But I doubt it’s anywhere close to a Christian pushing morals and then using prostitutes for gratifcation aka Vitter.
Well that depends, whats more important to you, keeping a species from going extinct, or if a public official got a piece?
PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
July 19th, 2007 at 1:32 pmIt appears that Gore may have eaten fish that he was told or thought was the latter but his detractors jumped on the former label to fault him.
Sounds about right. I’m just having fun arguing semantics and slightly flawed logic.
Sounds about right. I’m just having fun arguing semantics and slightly flawed logic.
Comment by squegeeboo
That’s our Squeegy!!
July 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pmSea Bass is my favorite sea food. No question about it.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:40 pmWhat’s the deal with these exotic fish? Howcome it couldn’t be flounder or halibut, or any other common fish? You know, as much as I admire Al Gore, one has to admit, he is rich. One also has to admit that John Edwards is rich. One also has to look at Obama’s life style and to many, he looks rich also. Forgedda bout it. A four hundred dollar haircut–as much as I spend for food per month, strictly budgeted–and cut my own hair and grow a garden for my food, at least some of the time. And we have these people in the forefront, rich and the elite priveleged, eating a fish with a fancy name–could have been tuna or locally caught flounder or crab or lobster locally caught by hard working fishermen–nope–had to be the fish with the fancy, obnoxious name that few, especially we common folk,could buy in the local supermarket, that was served at this ostentatious wedding dinner. Think about it. Is it a smear? I am sure Republicans do the same.\
\
It is the good life–did he earn it? Sure,but I, born into a lower income family and deprived of a college education, also worked hard and gave back to society –I never heard of Chilean whatever the hell it is, fish.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:43 pmWhat we need is a thin, non-fish-eating, poor guy with no house to be our spokesperson.
Comment by Egreggious
[Nah, he’d just get label a wimpy, lazy, free-loader who wants a government hand-out]
I’m just having fun arguing semantics and slightly flawed logic.
Comment by squegeeboo
[You can be infuriating but also entertaining. BTW, you fish-spawned
July 19th, 2007 at 1:45 pma good discussion and I learned a lot. Thanks.]
Well that depends, whats more important to you, keeping a species from going extinct, or if a public official got a piece?
What’s more important to me is a legislature that has character to back up what they believe, whether I agree with them or not.
Gore thought he was being “eco-friendly”, yes, he could have eaten another fish, but he was under the impression that the fish he was eating was not in danger of being extinct.
Similar to Willie Nelson, who drives a bus. Yes, he can drive something else smaller, but his bus runs on biodiesel.
I would have no problem with Vitter if he lived the life he’s trying to push on other people Heck, even if he “faltered” once or twice when he was younger, he’s human. But to continuely be hypocritical while not making the effort to change shows his lack of character, especially at his age when he should know better.
Btw, Chilean Sea bass is quite tasty..although I prefer eating monkfish myself.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:48 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
July 19th, 2007 at 1:49 pmYou can be infuriating but also entertaining. BTW, you fish-spawned a good discussion and I learned a lot. Thanks.
any time. After all, with out a devil’s advocate, wouldn’t god win?
This update is nothing more than damage control and cover up.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:49 pmSea Bass is my favorite sea food. No question about it.
Comment by Roger_Roger — July 19, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Is it ill-tempered mutated sea bass?
July 19th, 2007 at 1:54 pmMr. President knows a lot about what it takes to be a better father. He’s totally pissed at Papa President because of the time he tried to teach Mr. President to play baseball and poor Mr. P kept hitting himself in the head with the bat and wound up crying. Mom President made him rice krispy treats to help him feel better, and then they listened to Hannity’s radio show. Papa President didn’t even look at his son.
Since then, their relationship has been kind of cool.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:57 pmO M G is this the best the rapture righties can come up with? If so, then I have to say their bag of ugly slurs and evil tricks is almost empty. I would like to see Mr. Gore face-to-face with say…Limbaugh or O’Cryly. Gore would first stare em down, then throw his head back, give out a deep belly laugh, get up and leave the set. I’d love to see that.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:01 pmReminds me of the old joke about the traveler asking a Boston cabbie where he could get “scrod”.
Latin student Cabbie said that was the first time he had been asked that question in the pluperfect subjunctive.
There must be something serious to argue about.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:04 pmIndeed, he needs to be a better father, for Goracle III’s sake.
Comment by Mr. President
Why don’t you do a little research about Gore’s son’s childhood accident before you decide what kind of father he is?
Right now, I’m not thinking too highly of your parents. Is that fair?
July 19th, 2007 at 2:05 pmGlobally the tooth fish is a threatened species, if there are well managed stocks they should be using those to boost other populations, not for eating.
What planet do you live on? What private company is going to manage a high-end boutique fish farm for purely charitable goals and NO profit? This is the sort of thing a government-funded organization might be able to do, but I doubt you’re recommending that, and I’m not holding my breath.
This is the sort of “If you live you must be an environmental hypocrite because you might step on a rare bug or exhale CO2″ argument that right-wingers think is soooo clever.
I don’t know if the poster is in that camp of lunatics (uber-environmentalists might make the same comment), but it makes a great case-in-point on the general issues:
The point - which is so freaking obvious to everyone but the so-called “conservatives” - is that to make a difference you try to make a difference - which means you do what you can differently from the old way; you don’t have to become an environmental Mother Theresa to make a difference.
It’s ironic that THEY hold Al Gore to that standard. I’d be more impressed if they actually tried to out-do Al Gore. Show us how it should be done, if they don’t think he’s doing it right.
That last thought really underscores that they are indeed scared of Gore. They aren’t arguing any facts (except for their wacko made-up ones), simply hunt desperately for reasons to attack him personally. I don’t think it really has anything to do with the issues: if it was Health Care or Education they’d behave the same. Al Gore scares them because they know he’s right.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:05 pmHrr?
Btw, Chilean Sea bass is quite tasty..although I prefer eating monkfish myself.
Fish is way to hit or miss for me, I’ll have to give monkfish a shot.
I find this interesting as compared to the Salmon arguments. Where people say eat wild, because the commercial fisheries don’t treat the fish right.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pmPersonally I only eat the wild Salmon because it tastes much better.
O M G is this the best the rapture righties can come up with? If so, then I have to say their bag of ugly slurs and evil tricks is almost empty. I would like to see Mr. Gore face-to-face with say…Limbaugh or O’Cryly. Gore would first stare em down, then throw his head back, give out a deep belly laugh, get up and leave the set. I’d love to see that.
Comment by EmilyD
You sound like a Dungeons & Dragons nerd… “I challenge your dragon Limbaugh with my dwarf wizard Gore…”
July 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pmOh good lord….
This is a pure and simple attempt at character assassination, and the Mainstream Media just eat it up.
For heaven’s sake, the Gores didn’t even have a hand in the dinner. Their daughter’s IN-LAWS arranged it.
You know– wedding rehearsal dinner tradition?!
And the restaurant’s statement says all that needed to be said as far as any rational person is concerned.
But as we know, the Reich Wing is NOT rational, and the truth is meaningless once they’ve accepted a narrative as Their Gospel.
We now have a country where the media aim their message to a constant 30% of delusional lemmings. No wonder we’re in such dire straits….
July 19th, 2007 at 2:14 pmsquegeeboo
I appreciate your “devil’s advocate” role here at TP. I often play that role in organizations I am active in. Every group needs at least one to help move the discussion and to think outside the box. Of course, I’d like to think that you really are “one of us” progressives also!
Later
July 19th, 2007 at 2:16 pmmy my, what a surprise to discover that the daily telegraph is a part of rupert murdoch’s disinformation distribution network:
The Daily Telegraph is a tabloid newspaper published in Sydney, New South Wales, by Nationwide News, part of News Corporation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph_(Australia)
July 19th, 2007 at 2:18 pmIf one of the Christian right hired prostitutes or did drugs were it’s legal would that count as manufactured hypocrisy, or would it still be an OMG! moment for the left?
Comment by squegeeboo — July 19, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
Manufactured hypocrisy??? Ted Haggart, Mark Foley, Rush Limpballs, Duke Cunningham. You’re full of shit squeegie.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI can’t pull up my copy of it or it’s name but a great seafood cookbook came out a few years ago whose title was a take off on the old “One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fishâ€. It’s a great source for those seeking to make the best choices when tackling these issues
Comment by dbadass
Our local grocery chain, New Seasons, has all their seafood color coded, red, yellow or green with a legend that explains what each color means. In fact, they don’t carry any fish that would be labeled red, and not a lot of the yellow.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pmPersonally I only eat the wild Salmon because it tastes much better.
Comment by squegeeboo
Farmed salmon has all the rich flavor of library paste.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pm…This is a pure and simple attempt at character assassination, and the Mainstream Media just eat it up…
Comment by rw808
… and we know that never happens to anyone on the Right…
July 19th, 2007 at 2:25 pmPat
Manufactured hypocrisy??? Ted Haggart, Mark Foley, Rush Limpballs, Duke Cunningham. You’re full of shit squeegie.
Thank you for that well thought out and insightful rebuttal that missed the ‘were it’s legal’ part of my inherently flawed statement.
PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC)
Of course, I’d like to think that you really are “one of us†progressives also!
I’ve got some bad news for you then (depending on the topic of course)
Enjoy your day!
gummitch
Farmed salmon has all the rich flavor of library paste.
And how would you know about that? What did you do in kindergarten?
Also, whats so bad about the red and yellow groups?
July 19th, 2007 at 2:31 pmgummitch
Never mind, I did the google thing. I was hoping for a tasyness scale, or perhaps a wine/seasoning scale, but it appears to be a sustainability scale.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:33 pmgore is an environmental hypocrite as is anyone that eats meat.
http://environment.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19526134.500
A kilogram of beef is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution than driving for 3 hours while leaving all the lights on back home.
This is among the conclusions of a study by Akifumi Ogino of the National Institute of Livestock and Grassland Science in Tsukuba, Japan, and colleagues, which has assessed the effects of beef production on global warming, water acidification and eutrophication, and energy consumption. The team looked at calf production, focusing on animal management and the effects of producing and transporting feed. By combining this information with data from their earlier studies on the impact of beef fattening systems, the researchers were able to calculate the total environmental load of a portion of beef.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:36 pmHe could get a $20 haircut and donate the rest to a homeless shelter.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:43 pmI agree, there are much bigger problems in this world than the plight of the patagonian toothfish.
But that doesn’t mean we have to totally ignore things like this.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:46 pmOkay, so lets summarise this quickly:
Rightwing claims that Gore ilegally ate an endangered fish. Turns out the fish is legal and being sustainably fished. Oops.
Further, much as Gore is big on global warming, I don’t know his stance on fishing or wildlife conservation - so calling him a hypocrit on that score seems a little odd anyway.
As to the beef comment: What you need to ask is whether animals would be farting in those fields anyway, and what would you rather give up: Animals or cars?
July 19th, 2007 at 3:00 pmBruce Gorton
July 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pmRightwing claims that Gore ilegally ate an endangered fish. Turns out the fish is legal and being sustainably fished. Oops.
I don’t think they ever claimed he ate it illegally.
Cattle and other domestic animals can be raised in “sustainable” ways as opposed to the CAFOs that persist nowadays.
Try to find beef that comes from cows raised on grasses and not grains. And try to find chickens that aren’t pumped full of hormones, etc. Not easy, but you can if you try.
http://www.themeatrix.com/
July 19th, 2007 at 3:12 pmhttp://www.eatwellguide.org/
squegeeboo
Well, if it wasn’t legal to catch it it probably wasn’t legal to buy and eat it. Anyway, the whole thing comes down to:
The fish was legal. Was sustainably fished. the rightwing was talking out of its arse about a person who so far as anybody knows has given up politics for more fun pursuits.
I mean really, why does Gore scare them so much?
July 19th, 2007 at 3:13 pmAlejandro, why should he get a $20 haircut? Should he by a shanty and donate the rest?
July 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pmShould he buy off the rack and donate the difference?
Why is it a requirement for someone concerned about poverty to be poor?
Now, if he donated no money, did nothing to actively help the decline of poverty, then I could understand the criticism.
But calling him a hypocrite for enjoying the money he earned is ludicrous.
Bruce Gorton
Well, if it wasn’t legal to catch it it probably wasn’t legal to buy and eat it. Anyway, the whole thing comes down to:
They never implied that anything about the fish he was eating was illegal (at least in the articles I’ve read) They stated he ate a threatened species, and then gave reasons as to why it was a threatened species, which is where the overfishing/illegal fishing aspect came in.
Apparently because he loves Earth so much, he should have known better than to eat it, that was the point (which is rather weak) of the stories.
I mean really, why does Gore scare them so much?
July 19th, 2007 at 3:26 pmBecause he is the current poster child for Global Climate Change, which business interests tell the right to fight against.
The restaurant in question should sue the shit out of these slanderers. Not only would this claim be bad for business, but also very likely falls under the domain of “food disparagement” laws — the ones McDonald’s and their craptacular ilk jammed through Congress a few years back.
The best way to hurt these political hit squads: take away their meager-assed funds and make them stand in their crap-filled pants by the freeway holding up a sign that reads “Will Spin Republican Lies for Food.”
July 19th, 2007 at 3:35 pmsquegeeboo
So hang on one minute: This whole thing amounts to Al Gore ordered a rare, legally caught fish? That is the whole stinkup? The best shot the right had got?
Shiiit, and I thought they were reaching with that story about Gore’s son being a screwup.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:44 pmAs long as Gore is not a vegan, they’ve sort of got a point.
Eating meat is more harmful to the Earth than driving an SUV, you know.
Comment by Vinnie — July 19, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
FWIW, this is name-jacking. I have not been on the site all day.
For the record, I am a vegetarian but I am not a vegan.
If I were to post anything here I would say “Regardless of what Al Gore ate last night, there is still scientific consensus that global warming is real and is caused by mankind. Al Gore could become a Hummer-driving right-wing troll and that scientific consensus would still stand. The right just cannot take that Al Gore is leading such a decent crusade and exposing their profit-hungry, environmentally-destructive ways.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:48 pmsome guy wrote a blog entry saying that there are no good democratic candidates for prez!!?? Obama, Clinton, Edwards? C’mon! http://www.mypetpeeves.com/plog/index.php/archives/2514 please help me out folks!
July 19th, 2007 at 4:00 pmBruce Gorton
So hang on one minute: This whole thing amounts to Al Gore ordered a rare, legally caught fish? That is the whole stinkup? The best shot the right had got?
Not quite. This whole thing is because his daughters soon to be in-laws set up the rehearsal dinner with a rare-legally caught fish.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pmTruth doesn’t matter to conservatives. What matters is belief.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:24 pmAnd every conservative just said “God D**m, he keep doing everything right. WTF, why can’t we catch him on one god d**m little thing. F**k.”
Oh wait, they won’t see the retractions. They’ll be burried on pg. 17 of the printed paper, and by request only for news websites….
July 19th, 2007 at 4:38 pmClimate folks are getting billions in money to research “global warming.” I understand if they’re compromising their principles in order to provide for their families.
Al Gore is also makes $100,000 to talk about “global warming.” Not sure if he throws in the hypocrisy for free and if charges an additional surcharge for jet fuel.
We could ask him, but he’s probably in the middle of a good meal.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pmNever made sense to me either. I guess if you are rich you can only spend money on personal things if your are *against* helping the poor? I guess that’s neo-con logic for you…
July 19th, 2007 at 5:11 pmSo, in other words, poor Al probably had no idea what species the fish was until after it was digested and stories ran on the blogs and somebody told him. LOL. Can’t kill the message, so shoot the messenger. Jeez.
July 19th, 2007 at 5:13 pmSince Al Gore’s daughter was marrying, the rehersal dinner was the obligation of the grooms family. They were responsible for the planning of all aspects of that affair!
July 19th, 2007 at 6:21 pmWow, I wondering how long this would take before we realized it was a smear… not long it seems.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:11 pmIt doesn’t matter. Even if they can’t find an incorrect item to latch onto, they’ll just lie and make it up. Remember Clinton’s alleged haircut on the LAX runway (What IS it with conservatroids and their fetishes, in this case, hair)? It never happened, but that didn’t stop them and their servants in the msm from repeating the big lie enough to make it true in the minds of thousands, maybe millions.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pmHey wingers,
You never grow up or what? When you were 24 years old you were running to daddy and mommy to tell you what was right and wrong?
Gore III is an ADULT, morons. You know what that means?
He is responsible for his own decisions not his mother or father.
But I’m sure when wingers commit a crime at age 60 they still blame their parents for it.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:38 amRon,
You are an environmental hypocrite because you live.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:40 amYour mere existence is bad for the environment.
“Apparently because he loves Earth so much”
And that means he also loves every single freaking species on Earth so much he would never eat another creature…. oh wait a minute. Then how can he be still alive?
First, climate change is not about love. It’s about pragmatism.
Second noone loves the Earth as a whole. Actually it has some really really ugly things which every normal person would HATE. People may love certain things on Earth but not the Earth itself from A to Z. I for one do not love this fish. Do you? Does Gore?
Unlikely.
Third, if Gore in fact ate that fish - and keep in mind we don’t know that part of the story - that didn’t threaten anyone or anything.
Fourth, exactly what does “threatened” mean here? Who will decide how many of such fish should exist and why would he have such a right?
Let’s not forget this nonsense started with the lies of a lefty nutjob at the Humane Society. The wingers then picked it up — as if they agreed with that lying woman.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:48 amThe far left is no better than the far right. They lie, fabricate and they are concerned about non-issues like gay marriage or the fate
of the Chilean sea bass sucker fish.
Beverly Hills, huh? Mighty long walk…
July 20th, 2007 at 1:36 amOur local grocery chain, New Seasons, has all their seafood color coded, red, yellow or green with a legend that explains what each color means. In fact, they don’t carry any fish that would be labeled red, and not a lot of the yellow.
Comment by gummitch — July 19, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
That’s excellent. Do you know if this is a choice this chain makes or does your state have labelling laws which exceed federal regs. I will look into this chain and bring this idea to the attention of my superiors. This issue is very important to me as I have always been near the ocean and have travelled extensively and it is always the same story when you talk to the fishing folk. “The fish just aren’t coming anymore like they used to”
July 20th, 2007 at 2:01 amClimate folks are getting billions in money to research “global warming.†I understand if they’re compromising their principles in order to provide for their families.
Al Gore is also makes $100,000 to talk about “global warming.†Not sure if he throws in the hypocrisy for free and if charges an additional surcharge for jet fuel.
Comment by Muckdog — July 19, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Right-Wing Values 101: When you are on the losing side of a scientific argument, resort to personal attacks.
Any idiot with half a brain knows that it is Exxon and other energy companies that have poured millions into ‘research’ that suits their business (i.e. denies global warming is a problem). This argument that scientists are somehow being bribed to the tune of billions of dollars to alter their results is ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS. Do you have ANY evidence to back up this wild claim?
Isn’t it the federal government that give out the funding that you’re referring to. If what you’re saying is true then it is the Bush administration that has allowed this travesty of taxpayer money to occur.
I know this will confound you, but scientists are usually people with principles that conduct their science in pursuit of the truth. Your attack on scientists in general if deplorable. (You are basically saying that all of the scientists in the consensus position - the 20 or so scientific organizations I’ve listed repeatedly - are dishonest liars.)
Al Gore is independently wealthy. He doesn’t need any profits from his work on global warming and, indeed, he donates them. To right-wing, money-grubbing creeps like MuckDog, the thought of someone doing something for the decency of the planet without caring about being compensated for it is incomprehensible. Fortunately, the world does consist of caring people that don’t think like the typical selfish Republican.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:47 amBTW Muckdog, I’m still waiting for you to list a single scientific organization that has taken your position on global warming. Do you want me to list again all of the scientific organizations that have taken a formal position on global warming that basically agrees with what Al Gore is saying?
July 20th, 2007 at 2:49 amWhat we need is a thin, non-fish-eating, poor guy with no house to be our spokesperson.
Comment by Egreggious — July 19, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
The closest to that is Dennis Kucinich, a thin vegan and probably with the least personal money of the current Dem contenders. However, I don’t know whether or not he has a house of his own, and the rightwing would probably rip him for his stunning young British wife.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:52 amand the rightwing would probably rip him for his stunning young British wife.
Comment by Lora — July 20, 2007 @ 3:52 am
Indeed she is stunning. I wish I could commit to the Kucinich team. It is unfortunate that he and his ideas get such little attention
July 20th, 2007 at 4:06 amHey, maybe we should think about getting the hell out of IRAQ!
Oh, no, not when we can get prople all distracted by a bullshit story about what Al Gore had for dinner.
Next up: We have CREDIBLE EVIDENCE that Gore attempted to purchase Yellow Cake Uranium Ore from the West African Country of Niger! Oh, and high strength aluminum tubes too.
Doesn’t matter if it’s total right-wing bat-shit-crazy wacko bull, just keep distracting people from the fact that the September deadline for evaluating the troop surge in Iraq has now slipped to November.
Next up: Boobies!
July 20th, 2007 at 6:39 amVinnie, I’ve already listed them. Go back and find them yourself.
Or we can just summarize the groups/organizations and call them “The Smartest Group of Scientists.”
Hey, did you hear that Gore’s daughter went and picked up Al Gore III in the Maserati? Just part of the Gore family’s Green Fleet.
LMAO
July 20th, 2007 at 5:48 pmComment by Muckdog — July 20, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
You guys just can’t get over Al Gore, can you? What kind of dirt, real or fake (most likely the latter), are you reichwingers going to find or make up next, muckhead?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:17 pma poorly-researched Austrailian Daily Telegraph article, smeared Al Gore by claiming that he ate Chilean Sea Bass — a threatened species – at a rehearsal dinner for his daughter’s wedding.
He did, as his office confirmed. That’s another name for Patagonian Tooth Fish.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:21 amSo, you know, speaking of poorly researched…
Comment by Kilo — July 21, 2007 @ 1:21 am
Kilowatt-level brain,
July 21st, 2007 at 10:49 amIs it so hard to understand the meaning of
“Rather, the restaurant later confirmed, they had come from one of the world’s few well-managed, sustainable populations of toothfish, and caught and documented in compliance with Marine Stewardship Council regulations.”?
I’ve been to Australia a number of times. It is illegal to catch crocodiles in the wild for human consumption. However, there are licensed crocodile farms, which are permitted to kill and sell their meat to markets and restaurants. The principle here is the same, (not) Einstein.