Clinton, Kerry To Require Pentagon To Brief Congress On Redeployment Plans
Clinton, Kerry To Require Pentagon To Brief Congress On Redeployment Plans
On May 23, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) sent a letter to Defense Secretary Robert Gates urging him to “prepare plans for the phased redeployment of U.S. forces.” She requested that the Pentagon provide congressional oversight committees with “briefings on what current contingency plans exist for the future withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.”
Earlier this week, Clinton received a “biting reply” from Under Secretary of Defense Eric Edelman, who told Clinton, “Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda.” In response, she today sent another letter to Gates renewing her request for a briefing “on current plans for the future withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq or an explanation for the decision not to engage in such planning.”
Today on a conference call with reporters, Clinton called Edelman’s response “offensive and totally inappropriate.” “I sent a serious request to the Secretary of Defense, and received a political response in return,” said Clinton.
Since the Pentagon is not willing to brief Congress, Clinton and Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) plan to introduce legislation mandating such a briefing. Clinton told reporters:
[The legislation will] require a report and briefing from the Pentagon on contingency planning. This is in direct response to the unacceptable response I’ve received. … If we don’t get a response from the Pentagon, we have no choice but to require the legislation to get the response. … We need to make sure we are smarter getting out of Iraq than we were getting into Iraq.
Clinton said that she believes there is “bipartisan support” for this legislation, adding that at a recent Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) expressed concern about the lack of planning.
Kerry added that he expects the Pentagon to have a contingency plan for all situations, including “if the escalation of troops turns out to work” or “if there is a continuation of what we see today.”
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bush will veto it, though.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pmSmart, useful legislation. Even if we don’t get the 60 votes to veto-proof it, the voting record will be an excellent tool for the DNC to use to run more of these b@st@ards out of office in 2008.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:13 pmThe bush doctrine: Fighting Democracy over here, so we don’t have to fight it over there.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pmWon’t get 60, so it won’t even get voted on. Try again in 18 months.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pmI’d like to think CentCom already has a contingency plan. I mean I pray they do–but when the CIC says Plan B is to make Plan A work, there’s a disconnect.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pmOh snap! In 18 months, no bill needed!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:16 pmHow about briefing Congress about the 180,000 mercs – Cheney’s military – that receive $100,000+ per month each of our tax paying dollar?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pmBushCo.’s redeployment plan:
Scramble To The Rooftops And Wait
or
July 20th, 2007 at 4:20 pm(last) STTRAW
Good. Go for the jugular. If he vetoes this the people will storm the bastille.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmeither that or stop paying taxes in april. after all isn’t this taxation without any representation?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmwe need 8 more of those useless repugs to wake the fuk up or else this bill is going nowhere
July 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmWhy don’t they just tell Bin Laden and cut out his middle men.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pmwe need 8 more of those useless repugs to wake the fuk up or else this bill is going nowhere
Comment by hil — July 20, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
I thought we were down to 7.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:27 pmRight… and what happened to the $2.3 Trillion Rumsfeld said went missing on 9/10 and who was in the ”Energy Task Farce’, and nothing will happen again!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:27 pmeither that or stop paying taxes in april. after all isn’t this taxation without any representation?
That is actually brilliant.. If people protested by not paying their taxes, then they wouldn’t have the money to continue this war. By April they will likely have extended this to Iran as well.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:28 pmThe only problem with this is that it is the people here who need help, and the schools and such that would take the hit first. They will pay for their war before they pay for anything else.
Another piece of legislation? It will only be vetoed and there won’t be enough votes to override a Bush veto.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:28 pmNo one will storm the Bastille.
They will be shot by the Imperial White House Guard.
What is needed is a call for Edleman to be fired and to begin impeachment of Cheney and Bush.
Right… and what happened to the $2.3 Trillion Rumsfeld said went missing on 9/10 and who was in the â€Energy Task Farce’, and nothing will happen again!
Comment by Kevin Good — July 20, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
That comment will get deleted.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:29 pmTrue — it will get vetoed (if the obstructionists even allow it to get Dubya’s desk). But it’s reasonable to keep the legislative branch in the loop of what’s going on, and unreasonable to expect them to pay the bills blindly (and for you trolls out there, I would say exactly the same thing if the President was a Democrat and Congress was controlled by Republicans — as was the case a decade ago).
Keep hammering away, Dems. The more you keep logic on your side and lunacy on theirs, the more America sees them for what they are.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:29 pmFor most people taxes come out of paychecks. How do we stop our employers from sending the money in?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:30 pm#19
July 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pmmissmolly- Well said!
and if we can bring the troops home, Bush will still have his war using the mercs now around 180,00 and paid over $100,000 per month each with our tax money…. our money used to secure the oil for the oil corporations of which WE THE PEOPLE will see no relief at the gas pumps.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pmRay Taliaferro talked about this a few nights ago “The neocons are laughing in their sleeve” this so called war is not going to end.
I don’t see any storming of the Bastille unless that’s the name of a trendy boutique that’s having an amazing sale on designer and celebrity goods.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pmbig error
July 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pm180,000 not 180,00 mercs
Hey, where’d everybody go? The Bastille?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:36 pmI heard the Senate Republicans were on such an obstructionist roll that they filibustered their lunch order. I think Norm Coleman was the first one to notice that they had blocked their traditional Friday Subway party platter.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm“helenahandbasket”
Oh gawd that’s just too funny.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:41 pmWhy don’t they just tell Bin Laden and cut out his middle men.
Comment by Unvarnished Truth — July 20, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
What does he have to do with Iraq?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:43 pmYea!!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:46 pmLegislation!!
Knowing what Shrub has done with other such bills, I predict that the Pentagon will now be covered as a matter of executive priviledge. — as are conversations between anyone in the executive branch including mail servers of the RNC and Girl Scout cookie sales figures.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pm#27: Thanks for the shout out.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pm28. Nothing, before March, 2003.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:48 pm#11
July 20th, 2007 at 4:52 pmisn’t this taxation without any representation?
Comment by isis11 — July 20, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
Um, no. Your represented. You just don’t like what you’re getting.
#31
July 20th, 2007 at 4:55 pmPlease don’t stop.
I can hardly wait for comments from hellinahatbox, or hellinaheftybag, etc.
I wish all our people in Congress would watch this film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFC0SPz1L4Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbobgeiger%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F
It says it all about what this President is asking them to do – while he extends their tours of duty and shortens their time at home..
July 20th, 2007 at 4:56 pmLack of Planning – that is what this criminal administration has been all about from the beginning.
They did have ONE PLAN though, the looting of the treasury, the fleecing of the public, and the enrichment of themselves and their cronies.
IGNORE THE TROLLS – they are ruining TP
July 20th, 2007 at 4:56 pmDon’t respond to them.
Don’t read their posts.
Does this mean there is nothing currently in place that requires the Pentagon to brief Congress on what the hell is going on?
The Pentagon can just tell Congress to bugger off?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:58 pm(much to some Repubs’ relief)
IGNORE THE TROLLS – they are ruining TP
Don’t respond to them.
Don’t read their posts.
Comment by Buch Fush — July 20, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Maybe I don’t get the joke, but shouldn’t it be BucK Fush?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:59 pm~
On any given thread here or anywhere else, there must be a bajillion times I see “your” and “you’re” misused. Please people, for the sake of future generations of English speaking Americans, PAY ATTENTION TO HOW YOU USE “YOUR” AND “YOU’RE.” If you do, you’re going to make your mom proud.
The same goes for “their” and “they’re” and “there.”
(Sorry, I just had to say something.)
July 20th, 2007 at 5:00 pmCZ-1 – You’z right.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:02 pmThe bush doctrine: Fighting Democracy over here, so we don’t have to fight it over there.
Comment by helenahandbasket
LOL Must remember to use that one.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:03 pmFor most people taxes come out of paychecks. How do we stop our employers from sending the money in?
Comment by leftcoast — July 20, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Just declare 20 dependents. For starters there are Bush, Cheney, Gates, Rice, Gonzo, Halliburton, Blackwater, KBR… You get the drift?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pmThe same goes for “their†and “they’re†and “there.â€
(Sorry, I just had to say something.)
Comment by CZ-1 — July 20, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
You’re right, of course.
Basically, in the great scheme of things, does it really matter? NO.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pmI once read science fiction story where the United States had become a pure democracy. Citizens voted on legislation themselves instead of having representatives. This included the budget, where people decided how much of their own taxes went to the exact line items that they wanted. This means they could include NO money of theirs for military, if they so chose. An interesting concept.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:10 pmHillary is showing some guts. someone should
July 20th, 2007 at 5:10 pmZooey,
July 20th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWe must not forget y’all and yawl!
Just declare 20 dependents. For starters there are Bush, Cheney, Gates, Rice, Gonzo, Halliburton, Blackwater, KBR… You get the drift?
Comment by WaltTheMan
It is actually illegal to do that. The best you can do is maximize your dependents or to take out a non-standard deduction. Then when April rolls around, you should be owing the IRS money that you can choose not to pay…. except for the legal consequences that is.
I am afraid the other poster is correct however. They will spend money on the war whether it exists from your taxes or not. Have you all forgotten that this President has created the largest Federal deficit in history? He looks like Gates next to Ronald Reagan.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWe don’t need any of them misspelled homophones used around hear.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:12 pmComment by CZ-1
Maybe an interesting concept. But that would require actually educating people and giving them enough time to contemplate. We would seriously have to overhaul our entire way of life to make that effective.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pmZooey,
We must not forget y’all and yawl!
Comment by WaltTheMan
Absolutely, Walt! And the plural of y’all, according to my niece in Texas — “youins.” :D
July 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pmBy the way, people have been suggesting that other posters on this board have the ability to delete your posts. Really? How do they do that?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:15 pmOr there’s “All y’all” for a big group.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:16 pmSorry, I mean you’re posts, meaning youins.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:16 pmRe #43 You’re right, of course.
Basically, in the great scheme of things, does it really matter? NO.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Well, obviously. The same could be said for this entire thread, really. But blogging/commenting is a social thing, right? It’s all part of the mix, like trolls and jokes and miscellaneous thoughts. Mix well and feel free to scroll faster through some parts.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:16 pmLeave it to Texas to be screwing up everything (no offense to Austin)
July 20th, 2007 at 5:17 pmI once read science fiction story where the United States had become a pure democracy. Citizens voted on legislation themselves instead of having representatives. This included the budget, where people decided how much of their own taxes went to the exact line items that they wanted. This means they could include NO money of theirs for military, if they so chose. An interesting concept.
Comment by CZ-1
Sounds like one of L Neil Smith’s books. There’s a whole subgenre of libertarian science fiction, but this sounds more like Smith than anyone else. I haven’t read any in ages, but he was always pretty entertaining.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pmI believe Y’all is plural. Least ways that’s how we used it. You/Y’all .You/Youse
July 20th, 2007 at 5:19 pmI’m fixin’ to go do a sound check. See y’all later. You’ins take care now, ya hear.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:19 pmBy the way, it seems that the military and this President have been debriefing Congress for a long time now. That’s why all I see is moon on the floor of Congress.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:21 pmOr there’s “All y’all†for a big group.
Comment by Texas
Y’all are endlessly creative, I have to say.
Growing up back east, I know that the correct term is “youse” as in “Do youse wan some mow wadda?”
July 20th, 2007 at 5:21 pm#55
July 20th, 2007 at 5:22 pmAs your post suggests, Austin is the least of Texas.
Whether you mean it in a good way or not.
Mix well and feel free to scroll faster through some parts.
Comment by CZ-1 — July 20, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Gee whiz, thanks.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:24 pmHillary is showing some guts. someone should
Comment by oldtree — July 20, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
I agree. The Bush administration’s most glaring deficit is it’s lack of planning, poor planning, and obstinate insistence that planning is not necessary. The Democrats should point this out frequently and loudly, and they should demand the administration make a best effort towards planning for all future actions the administration wants to take. And those plans should be reviewed, revised, and approved by Congressional oversight. Bush has proven that he can’t or won’t plan his way out of a wet paper bag.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:24 pmI once read science fiction story where the United States had become a pure democracy. Citizens voted on legislation themselves instead of having representatives. This included the budget, where people decided how much of their own taxes went to the exact line items that they wanted. This means they could include NO money of theirs for military, if they so chose. An interesting concept.
Comment by CZ-1
I once read a science fiction story that describes our current situation – it was written by George Orwell.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:25 pmI always enjoyed how Mid-westerners said it–everything was “you guys”. I thought y’all and youse made more sense, since they weren’t gender-specific. But then we called all carbonated beverages “Cokes” so what do I know?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:26 pmSome plan, others do.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:26 pmBut now that Bush has declared that there are only two branches of our government, Congress is moot.
I’m sure it’s only a coincidence that Bush had to write off the one branch of government his party no longer controls.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:28 pm.
The Executive is out of control. Are you counting the Cheney branch?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pm#67…Like the coyote that chews off a leg when caught in a trap, perhaps?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pmSome plan, others do.
Comment by Nothing Matters
Some plan, then do. Those others that just do often end up in doo-doo.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pmKerry and Clinton (in foreign policy)=neocon light.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:33 pmKerry and Clinton (in domestic policy)=corporate control
But now that Bush has declared that there are only two branches of our government, Congress is moot.
Ah, that’s explains what Bush is doing when he clears all that brush (branches) at his ranch! He’s practicing clearing the branches of government!
July 20th, 2007 at 5:34 pmFor those who may have missed it, the official Bush White House /RNC approved list of Republican talking points on Iraq has gotten a bit of a make-over in the past few days.
President Bush’s staggeringly incoherent surge interim progress report last week returned “We’re Making Progress” to GOP mouthpieces everywhere. Then, the Senate Republicans’ successful filibuster of the Levin-Reed after all night debate brought the Rove stamp of approval for “Political Stunt.” (This turn of events signaled the death of a previous GOP favorite, “Up or Down Vote.”) And now, Undersecretary of Defense Eric Edelman has updated John Boehner’s “Embolden the Enemy” with a twist of his own, “Reinforces Enemy Propaganda.”
Here, then, is the newly updated list of:
July 20th, 2007 at 5:36 pm“The Official Republican Iraq Talking Points.”
#67 Comment by Grand Moff Texan — July 20, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
But now that Bush has declared that there are only two branches of our government, Congress is moot.
Yup, that was part of the “plan.” A rubber stamp Congress and a stacked SCOTUS in favor of the unitary presidency. That was the biggest fear of Alito and Roberts. They both moreso even than Scalia or “Thomas the useless,” especially Alito, support a very strong executive branch.
.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:40 pmMerlin: “Kerry and Clinton (in foreign policy)=neocon light.
Kerry and Clinton (in domestic policy)=corporate control”
Good work, Merlin. Keep it up and you may be able to save the republican party.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:41 pm#73
Wow
I didn’t read the Official Repub Talking Points, but I did go down their published blog roll list. Pretty impressive list of lefties there.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:42 pmMerlin, would either Clinton or Kerry have nominated anyone remotely resembling Scalia or Thomas?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:43 pm“The Official Republican Iraq Talking Points.â€
Comment by Furious — July 20, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Shouldn”t “Wait Til September” be changed to “Wait Til November”?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:46 pmGetting 140,000 plus people out of Iraq is no simple matter ,logistically. Iraq is mostly land locked…no harbors to move lots of people to ships.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:50 pmGod help us if the lack of planning evidenced in the initial invasion is repeated in our exit. The Senate should insist on contingency plans to get us out of Iraq that don’t involve wishfull thinking.
“The Pentagon can just tell Congress to bugger off?
(much to some Repubs’ relief)
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007″
zooey, why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:54 pm#77 Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 20, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Merlin, would either Clinton or Kerry have nominated anyone remotely resembling Scalia or Thomas?
No. Their liberal credentials are way too strong to think that. However both, especially Clinton, are DLC people. I want a strong Progressive as President. Sadly my choice, Russ Finegold, did not choose to run.
Good work, Merlin. Keep it up and you may be able to save the republican party.
HAHAHA. It will take a generation or more to do that. I do wonder what that reincarnated “Republican Party” will look like. Sadly, I will have long finished fertilizing the grass with my remains to ever know.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pmBoth of them voted to give George Bush the unopposed right to invade Iraq. And now we have one who lost his bid because he could never ever discuss this disasterous vote during his campaign, in spite of the carnage going on in Iraq, supporting another who also voted the same. Excuse me–I think we are being tossed aobut like leaves in the wind here.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:58 pmQuestion everything and vote your soul.
In about seven hours, W will be spilling his brains into a comode. The effect is akin to having a dinner of Chili peppers and salt. You get this empty feeling and then hump the john again and again. By morning, no-one will be able to claim that W is full of *it. *Put sh in front of it.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:00 pmzooey, why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
Comment by michael — July 20, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
Piss off, you f*cking insane moron.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:04 pm…
this is a very good maneuver…
also wondering – is this a declaration of
who kerry is backing?
guess that wouldn’t be a surprise…
July 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pm…
#67 — actually, I think he really has it down to one branch, two, of course, if you count the Cheney Branch. Remember, this nitwit famously said, “Congress passes the laws, and I interpret them.” or words to that effect.
“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, er, uh, I can’t be fooled again.” The man is an abortion gone bad.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pmPiss off, you f*cking insane moron.
Comment by Zooey
You always give the trolls too much credit, Zooey. It’s your kind and giving heart that just won’t give up on them.
Heh.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:10 pmwalt, the brain letting should have begun by now…
following normal procedure…
just knowing that he is going through such
uncomfortable contortions is making me happy…
be strong zoo…
July 20th, 2007 at 6:10 pm#79 Comment by Badger — July 20, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
Getting 140,000 plus people out of Iraq is no simple matter ,logistically. Iraq is mostly land locked…no harbors to move lots of people to ships.
Look, we got them in safely, and we can get them out safely. This is no Viet Nam! An insurgency + people more concerned with a civil war don’t really pose that much of a problem. In fact, it would not surprise me if they (the Iraqis) would help us leave!
God help us if the lack of planning evidenced in the initial invasion is repeated in our exit. The Senate should insist on contingency plans to get us out of Iraq that don’t involve wishfull thinking.
This echos the republics (neocon) talking points! They want us to be afraid of leaving so we won’t oppose their staying. Think about it! Getting out in these conditions I stated above, will not really be all that hard. They are creating another illusion backed up with their demonstrated incompetance. The military, given the right orders, would do an excellent job of getting us out of this mess.
The problem is really the WILL TO LEAVE. The logistics will take care of themselves.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:12 pmGlad to see Senator Clinton and Kerry stand up to these Un-Ameircans!
July 20th, 2007 at 6:24 pmThanks gummitch & katy,
You’re always good for a smile. :)
July 20th, 2007 at 6:26 pmThe logistics will take care of themselves.
Comment by Merlin — July 20, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
I sure hope you are right. The best solution would be political agreement to leave, with the iraqi’s helping us leave. The insugents have had 5 years to practice their Ambush skills…it’s just a matter of whether they will use them. The road out of Iraq is literally a ROAD, and these have been deadly for our troops lately. I don’t doubt that the military could pull it off successfully, but carefull planning would seem to be necessary.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:28 pmAnd then there is the matter of all that military equipment that needs to be removed, and spraywaqshed to prevent Iraqi pests and germs from entering the US. We sure don’t want to leave it there for use by whomever.
Merlin: “I want a strong Progressive as President.”
So do I, but failing at that, I’ll take a garden-variety Democrat over a Repub any day of the week.
no named: “Both of them voted to give George Bush the unopposed right to invade Iraq.”
Sorry, that’s just not true. They voted to give him authorization IF inspections failed and as a last resort. They stipulated that he had to provide linkage between Hussein’s regime and 9-11 in writing before he could invade. Read the original authorization act. I wish they hadn’t trusted this administration to live up to the agreement, but I’m tired of hearing that they “voted for the war.” They did no such thing. Bush simply didn’t live up to the terms of the agreement and the media never reported that to the people.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:35 pmComment by Merlin — July 20, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
It took 16 months to put the equipment and men in place for the March 19, 2003 invasion of Iraq. Since then, more than four years have elapsed and more equipment has been moved in, a palacial embassy is about (Jerry) built and about 14 fortresses have been added to the equation. It would take more than ten months just to pull back the MacRibs and Big Macs. After the clorine evaporates, the Iraqis can get potable water from the swimming pools.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:46 pmBush simply didn’t live up to the terms of the agreement and the media never reported that to the people.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Damn you and your clever “facts” Col. You give aid and comfort to the enemy when you “make sense”.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:03 pm#93 Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 20, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
So do I, but failing at that, I’ll take a garden-variety Democrat over a Repub any day of the week.
Yes so will I. However, that does not preclude my ranting against Hillary. Edwards is my current choice, Obama has yet to show himself. I would prefer Gore (even with his DLC background, which I think he may no longer believe in, if he chooses to run.) If Hillary wins the primary I will vote for her as an “anybody but a republic” as I did Kerry. (Anybody but Bush).
July 20th, 2007 at 7:04 pmColbert said it best: “Facts have a well-known liberal bias.”
July 20th, 2007 at 7:04 pmYou know, Merlin, she’s not my favorite candidate, but if she wins, she may surprise all of us with stunning competence, good will and hard work. After all, she IS a woman.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:06 pmYou know, Merlin, she’s not my favorite candidate, but if she wins, she may surprise all of us with stunning competence, good will and hard work. After all, she IS a woman.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Ok, the Colonel just shot up to the top of the list of my all-time favorites. :)
July 20th, 2007 at 7:09 pmTP’ers. OT. Most of you don’t know me, but I know you. I come here daily, but can’t usually comment on current threads (my schedule sucks, but hey it’s a living). This is what I just sent to TP:
“TP is (actually WAS) my homepage. I tend to lurk here because the only time I’m able to get here, the threads are basically dead or dying (my schedule is rather odd). But the degeneration of the comments section of this site, the takeover by people posting under multiple names, the disgraceful smearing of a dead soldier (I happen to be retired military) absoultely disgusts me. I will be leaving and MIGHT be back in a month or two to see if you have made any significant changes. If I wanted infantile conversation (e.g. Mr. President, CT-V1, Jake, etc) I just watch bad, B-level cartoon shows.
This site, a year or two ago, was awesome. Now….not so much.”
I just wanted to tell you I’ll miss you all. Zooey (great sense of humor), Bartlebee (always insightful), Republic of Stupidity, ACE (I don’t connect the dots the way you did, but you definitely make me exam my thinking and I never saw a false reference/link), Sgt Higgins (brother NCO, commone sense is a hallmark of a GOOD NCO-You got it). I know I’ve missed a lot of you but I just can’t hack the trolls and their total disdain for honest debate.
Thank you (above named plus those I ‘ve missed) for being there. I don’t have Hangul script on this machine, but…Anyongasayo chingos.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:13 pmMr. P is the most effective troll of all time.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:16 pmI am the best troll ever!
July 20th, 2007 at 7:22 pm#98 Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 20, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
You know, Merlin, she’s not my favorite candidate, but if she wins, she may surprise all of us with stunning competence, good will and hard work. After all, she IS a woman.
I agree that she would be as you describe. And I would cheer a woman president… er, not Condi however. It is just her right of center ideology in foreign policy that she still believes in (by refusing to agree that she was duped by the neocons,) that really bothers me. She will continue to have our troops and major presence in Iraq, even if not chasing a civil war. She has said this.
The DLC was created to be “strong” as opposed to the 70s weak “appeasers” and “cut and runners.” An answer to the “Reagun Revolution.” The Democratic Party “remade.” A founder of the DLC was a signatori to the PNAC document presented to Clinton in ‘98 to invade Iraq, as I recall. When Hillary disavows the DLC ideology in a way that I can believe I will be an ardent supporter. We’ll deal with the corporate problem after that.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:22 pm#94 Comment by WaltTheMan — July 20, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
It took 16 months to put the equipment and men in place for the March 19, 2003 invasion of Iraq. Since then, more than four years have elapsed and more equipment has been moved in, a palacial embassy is about (Jerry) built and about 14 fortresses have been added to the equation. It would take more than ten months just to pull back the MacRibs and Big Macs. After the clorine evaporates, the Iraqis can get potable water from the swimming pools.
That’s fine! whatever it takes to get out. Starting now! Slow is fine. Just lets stop the killing, bombing and all the other horrible things that are happening because of the neocon dream of Empire and a unitary president.
Yup, 16 months is fine, cause if we stop the fighting it will be a relatively peaceful withdrawal.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:30 pmDear Senator Clinton,
Thank you for your inquiry.
We do have a plan to withdraw the troops. Once the war is won, we will begin to withdraw the troops by planes and ships.
Thank you again.
Regards,
Under Secretary of Defense Eric Edelman
July 20th, 2007 at 7:35 pmWe do have a plan to withdraw the troops. Once the war is won, we will begin to withdraw the troops by planes and ships.
Thank you again.
Regards,
Under Secretary of Defense Eric Edelman
Comment by Muckdog — July 20, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
P.S. As this will not be in your lifetime or in that of your daughter, there is no need to concern yourself with this matter.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:37 pmThank you, Zooey! I’m honored.
Merlin, Hillary Clinton has already expressed an interest in revisiting NAFTA and CAFTA, which means she may not be as much of a DLC’er as we think. I think there is a growing consensus even among moderate Dems that one of Bill Clinton’s biggest mistakes was embracing the corporate bate-and-switch called “globalization.” On the war, I think she’s made her position pretty clear. If we haven’t started already, on the day she takes over, she will begin withdrawing troops from Iraq. And, even though she hasn’t presented a plan, her website is full of details on healthcare. I would expect healthcare to be a priority for her just as it was in the early 90’s.
Good day everyone! I’m taking a weekend.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:46 pmFrom the article:
“Kerry added that he expects the Pentagon to have a contingency plan for all situations, including “if the escalation of troops turns out to work†or “if there is a continuation of what we see today.â€
Classic Kerry! Refusing to say the truth. Straddling the middle of the road and triangulating. I wonder what ever happened to the brave young man from the Viet Nam war who had so much powerful stuff to say back then. I doubt he would recognize himself if he had the chance to go back in time and look to today.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:50 pmmerlin and walt -
leave all that equipment and supplies and EVERYTHING there…
the iraqis will need all they can get to rebuild their country…
just bring home our troops…
the contracters can stay, if they want to be paid by dubai…
July 20th, 2007 at 7:55 pm…
that of your daughter, there is no need to concern yourself with this matter.
Comment by Egreggious
Inflatable women can’t get pregnant, dude.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:57 pmInflatable women can’t get pregnant, dude.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 20, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
TRoS,
I was talking about Hillary and Chelsea. Did you think I was addressing Pee?
July 20th, 2007 at 8:00 pm“Kerry added that he expects the Pentagon to have a contingency plan for all situations, including “if the escalation of troops turns out to work†or “if there is a continuation of what we see today.†. . . Classic Kerry! Refusing to say the truth. Straddling the middle of the road and triangulating. I wonder what ever happened to the brave young man from the Viet Nam war who had so much powerful stuff to say back then. I doubt he would recognize himself if he had the chance to go back in time and look to today.
What are you babbling about? Kerry is writing a official letter to the Secretary of Defense here, not making a stump speech. The request/demand/whatever is supposed to be fully explained and laid out so Gates cannot duck it in any way. In any case, the Pentagon should have plans for those two eventualities and Gates needs his ass chewed out if he cannot produce any. Politically, the added text covers Kerry from spin accusations of defeatism and cuts off one line of weaseling Gates might take to avoid complying.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:11 pm#109 Comment by katy — July 20, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
leave all that equipment and supplies and EVERYTHING there…
the iraqis will need all they can get to rebuild their country…
just bring home our troops…
the contracters can stay, if they want to be paid by dubai…
The military does not have a lot of stuff the Iraqis can use to rebuild their country. Leaving military stuff would be a bad idea. If we don’t take it, it should be destroyed. The contractors are the ones who have stuff the Iraqis could use, but that stuff belongs to private not public contractors.
It would be interesting to see how many contractors would want to stay without any military protection. I suspect they will want to leave with or before the troops do.
We can go back and help them rebuild their country after we get out totally and they ask us to come back. Then we should do what they want, the way they want us to do it. It is their country after all, and we have no right to be there.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:24 pmOnce the war is won, we will begin to withdraw the troops by planes and ships.
Comment by Muckdog — July 20, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
Muckdog…sastisfy my curiosity….what will Iraq look like “once the war is won”??? Starbucks???Burka’s???
July 20th, 2007 at 8:26 pmKerry and Clinton (in foreign policy)=neocon light. Kerry and Clinton (in domestic policy)=corporate control
The one universal rule of the liberal blogosphere: even if the headline were “Hillary Clinton Slaughtered and Eaten By Bush Staffers after Republican Zombie Coup,” there would still be a selection of comments by people reminding us that they hate her and/or don’t trust her and/or don’t want her as President.
We get it, guys. You don’t like Hillary. Get some therapy and maybe save the Hillaryphobia for a discussion that is actually, you know, about freaking Hillary!
This one is about a political appointee mouthing off to an elected US Senator and two US Senators demanding answers and action from his boss. If this Edelman character had been working for a private firm and spoke like that to a corporate board member his ass would have been flying out the door already.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:26 pm#112 Comment by Berken — July 20, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
What are you babbling about?
Putting someone down is troll 101. So are you a troll? For the moment I will assume you are not. If not, your denigration simply turned me off to your message. Disagree without putting someone down will get better results.
Politically, the added text covers Kerry from spin accusations of defeatism…
And this was exactly what my post was about! There is no need for this waffling triangulation. Look at Russ Finegolg’s speeches and feel the power of a man with conviction who speaks his mind, without the fear Kerry exhibits here, or that sunk his presidential run in’04.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:35 pm“Piss off, you f*cking insane moron.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007″
Didn’t think a dumb liberal like you could answer that question?
July 20th, 2007 at 8:36 pm“It’s your kind and giving heart that just won’t give up on them.
Heh.
Comment by gummitch — July 20, 2007″
It’s her brain, or lack there of, that never kicks in!
July 20th, 2007 at 8:37 pmThank you (above named plus those I ‘ve missed) for being there. I don’t have Hangul script on this machine, but…Anyongasayo chingos.
Comment by usafret — July 20, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
Thank you for sending that to TP, usafret. Faiz has promised changes within the month, and he knows I’ll be holding him to the timeline, as well as many others.
I hope this is a very different site when next to check in.
Thanks for saying such nice things. :)
July 20th, 2007 at 8:38 pm“Glad to see Senator Clinton and Kerry stand up to these Un-Ameircans!
Comment by Aimee — July 20, 2007″
What unAmericans?
July 20th, 2007 at 8:39 pmThe michael troll is such a brave no-brainer that he has to launch personal attacks on a mostly dead thread.
Change your pants you f*cking idiot, you”re smelling up the place.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:40 pmComment by Merlin — July 20, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
and apologize profusely…
yea, i understand about the military stuff…
although any country should have the tools they need
to defend itself…
but, if you must, destroy that stuff…
leave everything else behind…
AND, we taxpayers have paid for the contractor’s equipment also…
it’s ours… should now be a gift to iraq…
and don’t forget to apologize… profusely…
July 20th, 2007 at 8:40 pm.
strong, zoo… c’mon…
the tracy comes to dead threads to talk to itself also…
July 20th, 2007 at 8:43 pmfunny…
….and don’t forget to apologize… profusely…
Comment by katy
That might actually go a long way, but it will never happen. Maybe 100 years form now, like with the slavery issue, but not now.
*sigh*
July 20th, 2007 at 8:43 pm“two US Senators demanding answers
Comment by Berken — July 20, 2007″
And I demand to see his military records!
July 20th, 2007 at 8:43 pmkaty…a lot of that equipment is used by the national guard…and is sadly missed in this country when Natural disasters strike. The lack of satellite phones during Katrina, because they were all in Iraq, for example.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:44 pm“Change your pants you f*cking idiot, youâ€re smelling up the place.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007″
And is this your best effort at an intelligent debate? I asked you a simple question. If you don’t know the answer admit it. But no, like a little child you resort to cursing and name calling. That’s why I look for you whenever I am on here!
July 20th, 2007 at 8:46 pm#115 Comment by Berken — July 20, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
“We get it, guys. You don’t like Hillary. Get some therapy and maybe save the Hillaryphobia for a discussion that is actually, you know, about freaking Hillary!”
OK, apparently you did not read my comments on Hillary. Go back and read #81, 96, and 101. My reasons are evident and not as you ignorantly assumed.
Your appology will be accepted.
Pssst… I’m not a troll or a republic.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:47 pm“katy…a lot of that equipment is used by the national guard…and is sadly missed in this country when Natural disasters strike. The lack of satellite phones during Katrina, because they were all in Iraq, for example.
Comment by Badger — July 20, 2007″
Oh please? Who were they going to call? The lowlife looting the stores?
July 20th, 2007 at 8:48 pmVast areas of the Gulf Coast, from Louisiana to Florida, had no regular telephone or wireless service. Thousands of the switches and cell towers that form the region’s telecommunications network were inaccessible or left without power — if not demolished.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:59 pm#129 Comment by michael — July 20, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
Oh please? Who were they going to call? The lowlife looting the stores?
Your warmth, empathy and compassion are truly shining here, Michael. You are a hero to all the trolls over at the West Hollywood Gym for Men.
Question:
Do you trolls get dressed up in military uniforms and get yourselves weighted down with a ton of medals like those Russian Generals we used to see during the cold war?
Enquiring minds want to know!
July 20th, 2007 at 9:00 pmkaty…a lot of that equipment is used by the national guard…
Comment by Badger — July 20, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
yea, i know all that…
imagine the jobs created manufacturing new equipment
for OUR national guard…
what’s there is ruined, by the sands, abuse, neglect, whatever…
leave it there… they can melt it down if nothing else…
just sayin’… emotionally… not necessarily intelligently…
July 20th, 2007 at 9:28 pm…
And is this your best effort at an intelligent debate? I asked you a simple question. If you don’t know the answer admit it. But no, like a little child you resort to cursing and name calling. That’s why I look for you whenever I am on here!
Comment by michael
We had our debate, idiot, and I won without having to write a single word, thank you very much. That’s how stupid you are.
Yeah, keep looking for me loser.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:28 pmLook at Russ Finegolg’s speeches and feel the power…
Comment by Merlin — July 20, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
uh… guess you haven’t heard the latest…
feingold thinks impeachment is not a good idea either…
check out kos…
i could be mistaken, but what a major disappointment…
July 20th, 2007 at 9:31 pm…
Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not my Feingold! Not him!
katy, did you hear the guy on Ed Schultz’ show yesterday who was doing Impeachment Thursday? He was subbing for Ed, thank god, and he did this “closing argument” for impeachment with six points. I thought he did a fantastic job, but I didn’t hear how the rest of the show went because the station in Portland is weak and cut out before I got out of the Gorge.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:50 pmI am the best troll ever!
Comment by Mr. President
That’s like crapping your pants and being proud of it. Best troll ever, indeed!
July 20th, 2007 at 9:53 pmwell darn, zooey…
i was in and out and when i heard it was norm _?_ i just turned it off…
too bad for me…
ed just went to subscription podcast too… not free anymore…
but i know he’s been pushing it, vehemently too…
randi rhodes, thom hartmann…
it’s gonna come down to us… WE, the people…
and, what bobby kennedy said at live earth:
I’LL SEE YOU ON THE BARRICADES!
i’ve been hearing about october…
July 20th, 2007 at 10:01 pm…
I am the best troll ever!
Comment by Mr. President
That’s like crapping your pants and being proud of it. Best troll ever, indeed!
#136 Comment by shane — July 20, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
HaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
Now, Shane, don’t be so negative! I suspect he really has won many a “contest” over at the West Hollywood Gym for Men. I know, I know, he does look funny, even for a troll with a load like that, but look at all the medals he wears so proudly! Give credit where credit is due…Best loaded troll ever
July 20th, 2007 at 10:03 pmThat’s like crapping your pants and being proud of it. Best troll ever, indeed!
Comment by shane
Priceless!!
July 20th, 2007 at 10:28 pmand, what bobby kennedy said at live earth:
I’LL SEE YOU ON THE BARRICADES!
i’ve been hearing about october…
…
Comment by katy
Yeah, I was driving up the Gorge, going slower and slower, because I knew the station was going to crap out. I think it must have been a great show.
What is this Bobby Kennedy thing about — barricades? Protests? Please, please? :)
July 20th, 2007 at 10:34 pmNevermind, katy. I found it. :)
July 20th, 2007 at 10:49 pmLike all good conversation in our country, it is a shame that things have slipped back to politics, and particularly party politics.
Each of us, as individuals, make this country what it is, for better or worse. It’s when we allow ourselves to be herded into huge groups of ‘this’ vs. ‘that’ that we are first fooled into feeling stronger by association (I’m a ‘this’, what are you?), and then given to realise that with so MANY voices out there, our own personal voice could hardly be significant (or even heard).
And we’d be right – but only when we wash the issues in politics and parties; We may as well just let Bush & Co. run their game as they see fit (as a good king would).
You could refuse to pay taxes in april. But you’ll end up in jail. And that’s counterproductive. And if, theoretically, it did work – I’d agree with JG (#16) that it would be the smaller portions of the budget that get cut first, like healthcare and education (funny that…”smaller”).
…Or you could vote with your daily dollar instead of, lazily, for your “party” every 4years. Which do you really think is more powerful? But think before you spend it (that’s where most people slip up – someone else mentioned a sale on?). We will only gain from what we are willing to risk (or perhaps lose…and I mean in a social-luxury/convenience sense, not send our kids off to fight and die sense).
On the up side, we won’t pay for it. Our kids will. At least, they’ll have a hell of a time trying to fix what we are so complacent about today.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:52 pmNevermind, katy. I found it. :)
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
you should check out the youtube of that speech…
it’s at C&L i’m almost sure…
but it was great ( you gotta get past his raspy voice)
and he had no notes, no teleprompter…
he’s gonna need some angels…
July 20th, 2007 at 11:20 pm…
“We had our debate, idiot, and I won without having to write a single word, thank you very much. That’s how stupid you are.
Yeah, keep looking for me loser.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007″
Ok, for all of you people who are not familiar with the conflict between zooey and me, let me explain. I have challenged zooey on quite a few issues which she has always responded with curses and insults. Why? Because she is a child. She prides herself in being able to join in with the rest of you liberals in feeding off of each other in painting the Bush administration as being EVIL! I come along and have the nerve to challenge her on some stupid comment that she makes and the hair on the back of her neck goes up and the insults and curses fly. Little does she understand how immature and foolish she makes herself look. But afterall, she’s just a dumb child!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:41 am“I am the best troll ever!
Comment by Mr. President ”
Sorry Mr Pres, that’s my title!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:44 amBut afterall, she’s just a dumb child!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 12:41 am
You are poop.
July 21st, 2007 at 12:44 am“he did this “closing argument†for impeachment with six points
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007″
Oooooooooooo zooey, you may be on to something here! What are those 6 points?
July 21st, 2007 at 12:47 am……michael has unresolved sibling rivalry issues….
July 21st, 2007 at 12:48 am“I have challenged zooey on quite a few issues which she has always responded with curses and insults. Why?”
Because she’s stupid.
July 21st, 2007 at 12:50 am#144
**sniff**
Now everyone is gonna stop liking me, and they’ll be michael’s new best friends.
July 21st, 2007 at 12:51 am“You are poop.
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
And TP allows idiots like you to reduce this blog to be on the same intellectual level as “sweetjesusihatefoxnews”? TP, you really need to screen the people that you look to for support. When you allow idiots into forming your opinion, guess what you are going to get?
July 21st, 2007 at 12:53 amAnd TP allows idiots like you to reduce this blog to be on the same intellectual level as “sweetjesusihatefoxnews� TP, you really need to screen the people that you look to for support. When you allow idiots into forming your opinion, guess what you are going to get?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 12:53 am
Double-poop!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:54 am““I have challenged zooey on quite a few issues which she has always responded with curses and insults. Why?â€
Because she’s stupid.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007″
Well Mr Turner, we all knew that!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:54 amHey michael,
Why don’t you bring your information about me to the top thread? You can embarrass me in front of all sorts of people there!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:55 am“Double-poop!
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
And you are a perfect example! Keep digging that hole? 6th grade?
July 21st, 2007 at 12:56 am“Why don’t you bring your information about me to the top thread? You can embarrass me in front of all sorts of people there!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
Why? Why don’t you show your intelligence here? Because you CAN’T!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:57 amAnd you are a perfect example! Keep digging that hole? 6th grade?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 12:56 am
Quadruple-duple poop!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:57 amI have the troll libs covered in the top thread. Mike’s got them here. Zooey is a brainless gasbag liberal.
July 21st, 2007 at 12:58 amWhy? Why don’t you show your intelligence here? Because you CAN’T!
Comment by michael
You’re just skeered.
Goose poop!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:59 am“Quadruple-duple poop!
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
My God, you are so intelligent with that response! The people at TP must be proud of you!
July 21st, 2007 at 12:59 amZoey eats goose poop soup for lunch.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:01 amMy God, you are so intelligent with that response! The people at TP must be proud of you!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Super duper smelly poop!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:01 am“Zooey is a brainless gasbag liberal.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007″
Correction! zooey is just brainless! Doesn’t matter what her political affiliations are!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:01 amNuh uh, michael, you are!!
Now, run and tell the teacher!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:03 amWell I see the same dumbshit pissing match crap is the theme here as well. This whole site is getting really lame what with all the douche bags trying to prove they have 2 synaptic connections by claiming others are ignorant, they are not, and calling names to “prove” it. Tools!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:05 am“Now, run and tell the teacher!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
zooey, when will you EVER say anything intelligent enough to warrant a intelligent discussion? I’m serious! I do want to have that discussion. But “Now, run and tell the teacher” is something I would expect to hear from my 12 year old niece. Are you 12 yet?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:06 amHey dbadass,
Just seeing how long we can string along these idiots with “poop names.” Fun!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:07 amMike,
Zooey needs to go on a diet. She needs two chairs to cover her asscheeks.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:07 amzooey, when will you EVER say anything intelligent enough to warrant a intelligent discussion? I’m serious! I do want to have that discussion. But “Now, run and tell the teacher†is something I would expect to hear from my 12 year old niece. Are you 12 yet?
Comment by michael
Just talking to your level, poopy head.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:09 amSeems to be holding you here nicely, doesn’t it? :-D
dbadass is a liberal hatemonger.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:11 am“Well I see the same dumbshit pissing match crap is the theme here as well. This whole site is getting really lame
Comment by dbadass — July 21, 2007″
Why? Because people like me ask you and zooey to back up your ridiculous accusations about the Bush Administration? This site is going down because myself and other Conservatives won’t let you get away with your rhetoric without proving it! We’re watching you and hopefully we will bring down this blog!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:11 am“Just talking to your level, poopy head.
Seems to be holding you here nicely, doesn’t it? :-D
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
Thanks for the confirmation! You’re your own worse enemy! But you are a LIBERAL!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:13 amWe’re watching you and hopefully we will bring down this blog!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:11 am
Na-na-na-na-na.
I’ve got my fingers in my ears and I can’t hear you!
Na-na-na-na-na.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:14 amJust seeing how long we can string along these idiots with “poop names.†Fun!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007 @ 1:07 am
I hear ya. Running circles around them does get old though. I genuinely enjoy dialogue with others especially others with varied ideas, ideologies, and insights. Problem here seems that the intelligent opposition has been replaced by a ragtag bunch of buffoons. Get a chance to pick up any Frans deWaal yet. If not consider “Our Inner Ape”. I really got a lot out of that one
July 21st, 2007 at 1:14 amZooey can’t wear pants. She can’t fit them over her ass.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:14 amBut you are a LIBERAL!
Comment by michael
Thank you, michael. That’s the nicest thing you ever said to me. *sniff*
Next you’ll be calling me a hippy, and I’ll have to kiss you!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:15 am“Running circles around them does get old though.”
It must suck to be a hateful liberal.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:16 am“Just seeing how long we can string along these idiots with “poop names.†Fun!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
A perfect example of why TP has a red face! Thanks zooey! Keep up the good work for us intelligent Consevatives!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:16 amGet a chance to pick up any Frans deWaal yet. If not consider “Our Inner Apeâ€. I really got a lot out of that one
Comment by dbadass
I’ve got it on order from Amazon. :)
July 21st, 2007 at 1:17 amMichael when have I made a “ridiculous accusations about the Bush Administration”? Oh a blog warrior are ye? That’s pretty humorous.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:18 amKeep up the good work for us intelligent Consevatives!
Comment by michael
Actually, that should be “Keep up the good work for [we] intelligent Consevatives!”
You’re welcome.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:18 amZoey never leaves the house, she orders everything online.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:18 am“Next you’ll be calling me a hippy, and I’ll have to kiss you!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
No zooey, you’re too young! That was my era. You would have fit right in with your ignorance though!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:18 amGrowing up back east, I know that the correct term is “youse†as in “Do youse wan some mow wadda?â€
Comment by gummitch — July 20, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
Now that I understood! Sounded correct to my ears. D:
July 21st, 2007 at 1:20 am“Actually, that should be “Keep up the good work for [we] intelligent Consevatives” Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007 @ 1:18 am”
Zooey is dumb as a box of nails.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:21 amNo zooey, you’re too young! That was my era. You would have fit right in with your ignorance though!
Comment by michael
So now you know how old I am? Tell me, please? I forgot.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:23 am“Michael when have I made a “ridiculous accusations about the Bush Administrationâ€?
Comment by dbadass — July 21, 2007″
Oh, I don’t have a specific quote by you but most accusations made on this blog are ridiculous. It’s late and I don’t want to go back and look at past posts to prove my point. Just take notice that if you make a statement like “W lied to get us into this war” if I am online that day, I’m going to challenge you to prove it. And guess what? You won’t be able to!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:24 amMetallica: Do you have a point or just a beef with Zooey? By the way what’s up with the hateful liberal deal? You seem to have some anger issues going. Is hate not bipartisan?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:24 am“So now you know how old I am? Tell me, please? I forgot.
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
Judging by your comments, 16?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:25 amZooey ordered a case of donuts over the Internet. She hasn’t left her loft in 3 years.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:25 amdbadass got his name by cruising gay bars.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:26 amAnd guess what? You won’t be able to!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Yeah! Take that, dbadass! So there!
*sticks out tongue*
July 21st, 2007 at 1:26 amPiss off, you f*cking insane moron.
Comment by Zooey — July 20, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
That goes double for me, Ann “Michael” Coulter. If you’re so damned convinced there was something wrong with Kerry’s discharge, then why don’t you provide some proof instead of constantly bringing up something unrelated to the discussion and insistiing that others prove you wrong? (And “proof” does not include your personal anecdotes about what you and your friends did.) How about proving yourself right for once (unlike you do in your books)?
Why don’t you just run and hide in your Fox News Channel Guest of Honor Suite?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:26 amEgreggious is a San Francisco queer.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:28 amKerry got a scratch on his ass to get a purple heart. He’s a pathetic fool. A flip flopping fool.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:28 am“Egreggious is a San Francisco queer.”
ROFL!
And it voted for Nancy Pelosi.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:28 amOh, I don’t have a specific quote by you but most accusations made on this blog are ridiculous.
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:24 am
So what you are saying is that you are a warrior for the destruction of a site which you feel has folks making unsubstantiated comments yet you can not substantiate your own accusation. Seems sort of screwy. Don’t bother looking as what you seek is not my agenda here. You might wish to employ a smaller brush next time.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:28 amSo you have a problem with San Francisco and homosexuals as well. So again about this hate thing…
July 21st, 2007 at 1:29 amEgreggious is a San Francisco queer.
Comment by Metallica — July 21, 2007 @ 1:28 am
Hey, I live in Portland.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:30 amJudging by your comments, 16?
Comment by michael
You caught me! Wow, you’re good. How do you do it, michael?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:30 amDon’t you feel kind of creepy following in underage girl around a blog?
dbadass you can’t substaniate your accusations against Bush because they are pure bullshit.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:30 amZooey,
16!
I feel dirty, like a Republican.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:31 amHey, I live in Portland.
Comment by Egreggious
Priceless….
July 21st, 2007 at 1:31 amZooey, you have the mentality of a 16 year old. You’re probably 300 pounds and unemployed (how’s that possible with a 4.5% unemployment rate?).
July 21st, 2007 at 1:32 am16!
I feel dirty, like a Republican.
Comment by Egreggious
I always knew that about you, Egg.
Sorry, I’ve been keeping secrets. :)
July 21st, 2007 at 1:33 amdbadass got his name by cruising gay bars.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:26 am
Actually it was bestowed upon me by my students as a take off upon my actual name not that it matters. Despite being hetero I have had a great time in some gay clubs through the years though with my gay friends. Damn those guys can dance.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:33 am“I feel dirty, like a Republican.”
You shouldn’t be snooping around the bedroom of Republicans anyway. Freaks.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:33 amdbadass you can’t substaniate your accusations against Bush because they are pure bullshit.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:30 am
Which accusations would those be?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:34 am“Why don’t you just run and hide in your Fox News Channel Guest of Honor Suite?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Ah Wayne. I thought you left us with your tail between your legs, but you are back? To zooey’s defense? She hasn’t even taken a stab at explaining the 5 year gap! You have, which I have shot holes in, but zooey’s response is to curse at me and call me names. It’s understandable, after all, she is only 16. So, would you like to take another shot (excuse) at why the 5 year gap?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:34 am“Which accusations would those be?”
That Bush lied us into war for one thing.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:35 amZooey! 16!!! And after all that White Zin I gave you? I swear, Your Honor, she showed me her driver’s license. And her son!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:35 amdbadass teaches straight boys to be gays.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:35 amSo, would you like to take another shot (excuse) at why the 5 year gap?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:34 am
Would you like to explain your point? You still haven’t mentioned (as far as I’ve seen, but I don’t go looking for you) precisely why this matters?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:37 amThat Bush lied us into war for one thing.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:35 am
What the hell are you on? When/where did I ever imply let alone say that?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:37 am“#
Zooey! 16!!! And after all that White Zin I gave you? I swear, Your Honor, she showed me her driver’s license. And her son!!!
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Wayne, why the 5 year gap?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:37 amWayne, why the 5 year gap?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:37 am
Ann, why does it matter?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:39 amMetallica did you “bamg your head” too hard. It’s a coed school and you do not teach someone to be “gay”. It has more to do with hormone levels during key windows of the developmental process. This is why we have be able to feminize and masculinize opposing genders in controlled laboratory work with a variety of animals.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:40 amHere michael, this is what you need to find out about Kerry’s five year gap:
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/email.html
July 21st, 2007 at 1:40 am“Would you like to explain your point? You still haven’t mentioned (as far as I’ve seen, but I don’t go looking for you) precisely why this matters?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
You have defended him in past discussions. I have asked you to explain the 5 year gap, you tried and it held NO water! So, I’m giving you another chance!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:40 am“What the hell are you on? When/where did I ever imply let alone say that?”
So you’re saying Bush did not lie us into war?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:41 amZooey! 16!!! And after all that White Zin I gave you? I swear, Your Honor, she showed me her driver’s license. And her son!!!
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
He’s way younger than he looks…..thanks for the Zin. :D
July 21st, 2007 at 1:41 amKerry slandered our boys in Vietnam.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:42 amWhy are you plying Zooey with wine if you’re married?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:42 amSo you’re saying Bush did not lie us into war?
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:41 am
That would certainly be a tough one to prove!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:43 amSo, I’m giving you another chance!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:40 am
To listen to your explanation of why this matters? Okay, I’m waiting.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:43 am“Here michael, this is what you need to find out about Kerry’s five year gap:
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/email.html
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
My God! This is a PERFECT example of liberal ineptitude. What did zooey direct me to? A kerry website that told me NOTHING! zooey, where can I go to find out why it took kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge? Wayne, can you help this child out?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:44 amSo you’re saying Bush did not lie us into war?
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:41 am
No. I wasn’t discussing anything related to the topic you wish to dangle as bait nor have I before. Again slowly this time… my agenda here is entirely different and has to do with the study of human behavior in an electronic environment. Are you going to show us where I said such a thing or are you going to acknowledge your mistake.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:45 amIs Hillary going to pick Kerry as her running mate? Beacuse that would be really fun!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:46 amWayne, can you help this child out?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:44 am
Ann, can you explain why this matters so much?
I didn’t think so. Until you do, no one is going to feel the least bit compelled to indulge you.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:46 amSo you’re saying Bush did not lie us into war?
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007 @ 1:41 am
No.
Comment by dbadass
———
My bad.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:47 amMy God! This is a PERFECT example of liberal ineptitude. What did zooey direct me to? A kerry website that told me NOTHING! zooey, where can I go to find out why it took kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge? Wayne, can you help this child out?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:44 am
michael, you need to fill out the form at that site and then wait for an answer.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:47 am“Metallica did you “bamg your head†too hard.”
What does this mean? Is this gay talk?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:47 am“And after all that White Zin I gave you?
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
And it figures that zooey would actually enjoy (white zin) a wine that beer drinkers substitute when they are TRYING to display a little class!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:48 amWayne, can you help this child out?
Comment by michael
Dumb shit, you can write Kerry an email and ask him yourself. You couldn’t even tell that was an email form, could you?
Heh.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:49 am“my agenda here is entirely different and has to do with the study of human behavior in an electronic environment”
dbadass is a cyber-predator.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:49 am“michael, you need to fill out the form at that site and then wait for an answer.
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
What site? Before you answer, you better go there to make sure you can back it up.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:50 amAnd it figures that zooey would actually enjoy (white zin) a wine that beer drinkers substitute when they are TRYING to display a little class!
Comment by michael
Are you saying Wayne has no class? That’s not nice. Wow. You’re always demanding that people be nice to you, and then you’re nasty to Wayne.
Would it be more classy if I drank my White Zin with crushed ice and a squiggly straw?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:52 amWhat site? Before you answer, you better go there to make sure you can back it up.
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:50 am
What am I missing here, guys? Anyone?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:52 amZooey drinks MD2020, not white zin.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:52 am“Dumb shit, you can write Kerry an email and ask him yourself. You couldn’t even tell that was an email form, could you?
Heh.
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007″
I love how you keep digging a hole and you don’t even realize it. We could settle this once and for all with a debate between you and me? How about it? Are you afraid?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:52 amWhat site? Before you answer, you better go there to make sure you can back it up.
Comment by michael
You didn’t even click on the link!! You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
Stupid f*ck!! We’re all laughing at you right now!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:53 am“You’re always demanding that people be nice to you”
The libs here are nasty and they have no class.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:53 am“What am I missing here, guys? Anyone?
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
Simple, FACTS!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:53 am“We’re all laughing at you right now!”
That’s your medication, sweetheart.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:54 amWhat site? Before you answer, you better go there to make sure you can back it up.
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:50 am
What am I missing here, guys? Anyone?
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007 @ 1:52 am
Miss Coulter doesn’t like to check the links people provide her. Thinking doesn’t come naturally to her, as anyone who has read one of her screeds would know.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:55 amI love how you keep digging a hole and you don’t even realize it. We could settle this once and for all with a debate between you and me? How about it? Are you afraid?
Comment by michael
How about we debate the merits and risks of you stalking a 16 year old girl in cyberspace? Or you could just email me directly, ok? Would you like that? I wouldn’t tell anyone. zooey@goodvibes.com
Shhhhh……
July 21st, 2007 at 1:55 amSimple, FACTS!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:53 am
The funny thing is, he’s right.
I don’t have the least idea what you guys are arguing about.
I’m just looking for a good opportunity to say “poop” again.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:55 am“Stupid f*ck!!”
Someone’s mommy needs to wash her little mouth with soap!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:55 amdbadass is a cyber-predator.
Comment by Metallica — July 21, 2007 @ 1:49 am
You intrigue me. What inner demons cause you to disrespect those you know not. Does this help with inner conflict, feelings of inadequacy, lack of meaningful human relationships? I do not mean to insult just curious as it is slightly abnormal to attack others for no meaningful reason. Would you mind reflecting upon this and offering clarification. I do not mean to suggest you suffer the issues I site just that these are often the root causes of such behaviors.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:56 amzooey, zooey, zooey, people want to see a debate between you and me. Are you AFRAID?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:56 am“Miss Coulter doesn’t like to check the links people provide her. Thinking doesn’t come naturally to her”
Pot meet kettle.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:56 amzooey, zooey, zooey, people want to see a debate between you and me. Are you AFRAID?
Comment by michael
No, I’m not afraid. Email me. Are you afraid?
July 21st, 2007 at 1:57 am“I don’t have the least idea what you guys are arguing about.”
I don’t either. But it’s fun to watch Zooey stammer.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:58 am“Zooey was the 16 year old bait!”
I can just see her asking “Did you bring the condoms?”
July 21st, 2007 at 1:59 amzooey, zooey, zooey, people want to see a debate between you and me. Are you AFRAID?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:56 am
Wrong! People want to see you go away and stay away.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:59 am“But it’s fun to watch Zooey stammer.
Comment by Mr. Turner — July 21, 2007″
And that’s because she is an immature child!
July 21st, 2007 at 1:59 amSimple, FACTS!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:53 am
No, it is YOU who are missing facts.
Why does Kerry’s discharge matter? It’s a simple question and one you refuse to address. On those rare times when I do come across your name here, it is almost immediately that you start demanding that everyone here explain this question to you. (As you did onthis thread.) And yet when you are asked why it matters, you refuse to respond.
That’s not how debate and discussion work in the “reality-based community.” But having your head stuck in the Desert Sands of Conservatism, you wouldn’t know that, would you?
So, one more time, why does Kerry’s discharge matter so much?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:00 amAnd that’s because she is an immature child!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 1:59 am
There you go again!
I feel so horribly dirty.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:00 am“And that’s because she is an immature child!”
Don’t tell that to Wayne, he already has her drunk!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:01 am“Wrong! People want to see you go away and stay away.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Why? Because you can’t answer my questions? Get used to it! That’s why I am here!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:01 amWrong! People want to see you go away and stay away.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Jane,
I’m all askeered! michael found out I’m only 16, and now he’s acting all creepy, I mean more creepy than ever, and I don’t know what to do!
He also found out Wayne gave me wine! I know you said it was ok, but I don’t want Wayne to get in trouble!
What shoudl I do!?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:01 am“Wrong! People want to see you go away and stay away.”
Like you have been in the Psych ward?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:02 amSo, one more time, why does Kerry’s discharge matter so much?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007 @ 2:00 am
Well, he needs some pretext for calling Zooey names.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:02 amWell, he needs some pretext for calling Zooey names.
Comment by Egreggious
Well, I’ve gotta go.
Little Zoo Jr wants to play “Oscar the Grouch v. Cookie Monster” on the computer, and he wants me to go out and get him some cigarettes and beer, for his sleepover with his pre-school friends.
Goodnight all (except the trolls)!!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:05 amWhy are the creepy liberals trying to lure people into conversations through personal email accounts?
Isn’t that a violation of the Terms of Use agreement?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:05 amWhy? Because you can’t answer my questions? Get used to it! That’s why I am here!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:01 am
No, because your question is stupid and pointless. Unless you’d like to explain to Wayne (as he has asked you so many times) why your question has a point?
——————-
What shoudl I do!?
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007 @ 2:01 am
Keep drinking the White Zin!:D
July 21st, 2007 at 2:06 amWhy? Because you can’t answer my questions? Get used to it! That’s why I am here!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:01 am
Nor can you answer mine. Why does it matter?
(C’mon, you always have a ready answer when you’re on TV. I grant you, it’s usually a senseless one, but you do have an answer.)
July 21st, 2007 at 2:06 amComment by Zooey — July 21, 2007 @ 2:05 am
Goodnight, Zoo! Hey, don’t spoil the little tyke!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:07 amGoodnight all (except the trolls)!!
Comment by Zooey — July 21, 2007 @ 2:05 am
Goodnight, Zooey. I’ll be in to tuck you in shortly. ;)
(Jane said I could say that!)
July 21st, 2007 at 2:08 amGoodnight, Zooey!
I don’t care how old you are. You still make me hot!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:08 amWayne & Jane
**wink**
July 21st, 2007 at 2:09 amEgg,
Raaahh. *wink*
July 21st, 2007 at 2:09 amI thought you all should know that The Republic of Stupid may be HIV positive.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:11 am“So, one more time, why does Kerry’s discharge matter so much?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Because he ran for President based on his military record. I am suggesting that he originally was issued a “less than honorable discharge” because of his anti American activities after his separation from active duty. He was an officer who went to Paris to meet with the enemy, he organized an anti-war group to protest the war, he tossed his medals over the White House fence in protest of the war. There is NO way he would have been issued an Honorable Discharge under these circumstances. So, explain to us, because zooey can’t, why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:12 amWayne and dbadass, you might want to get tested. Your lifestyle is dangerous.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:13 amDon’t know. Ask him yourself.
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/email.html
July 21st, 2007 at 2:14 amWayne and dbadass, you might want to get tested. Your lifestyle is dangerous.
Comment by Metallica — July 21, 2007 @ 2:13 am
Now what are you going on about?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:15 amI am suggesting that he originally was issued a “less than honorable discharge†because of his anti American activities after his separation from active duty.
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:12 am
Thank you, we’re finally getting somewhere. Now, here’s the hard part. What evidence do you have to back up this assertion? I mean, you’re “suggesting” it, and it’s the basis of your whole diatribe against us for not responding. But can you “prove” it?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:15 amOh, and “michael”, just in case you (deliberately) misunderstood me, I meant what evidence do you have that “he originally was issued a less than honorable dischargeâ€?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:18 amI’d also like some clarification on “anti American activities” if I may.
(I was in a coma during the Swift Boat Veterans era).
July 21st, 2007 at 2:21 am“But can you “prove†it?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Why did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge when it only took me and my friends 1 year? We were in the service at the same time (60’s), some of us were officers. Explain to us why kerry received his Honorable Discharge only after Carter’s amnesty program, but the rest of us received ours 4 years earlier? Can’t wait for your excuse for this coward!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:21 amComment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:21 am
michael, michael, ann, michael,
What evidence do you have that he was originally given a less-than-honorable discharge? I told you not to cite your personal anecdotal evidence (assuming it’s even true to begin with) because it proves nothing.
Where is the proof of the entire basis for your constant badgering?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:24 am“what evidence do you have that “he originally was issued a less than honorable dischargeâ€?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
None, considering he won’t release his military records. What evidence do you have that George Bush lied to get us in to this war?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:26 amAll righty then. That debate’s been resolved.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:27 am“Where is the proof of the entire basis for your constant badgering?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
Why did it take 5 years wayne?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:27 am(I was in a coma during the Swift Boat Veterans era).
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007 @ 2:21 am
Glad to see that you’ve fully recovered! ;-)
July 21st, 2007 at 2:28 amWayne, I believe you may be stuck in one of those situations wherein Michaels heartfelt opinions require him to override cogent defenses of them lest he face uncertainty and be forced to question the basis of his own assumptions
July 21st, 2007 at 2:28 amOf course you’ll simply denounce this as a liberal website without even checking what they have to say but, here it is:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html
Your turn, “michael”. What proof do you have that Kerry was originally given a less-than-honorable discharge?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:29 amWayne, I believe you may be stuck in one of those situations wherein Michaels heartfelt opinions require him to override cogent defenses of them lest he face uncertainty and be forced to question the basis of his own assumptions
Comment by dbadass — July 21, 2007 @ 2:28 am
My thoughts exactly!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:29 amComment by dbadass — July 21, 2007 @ 2:28 am
Thanks, dbadass, but I’m not convinced “michael” is really a male and not Ann Coulter herself. It debates just like it.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:30 am“Your turn, “michaelâ€. What proof do you have that Kerry was originally given a less-than-honorable discharge?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
You give me a website about W to defend the coward kerry? I’ll ask you again, why did it take kerry 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge? Stop dancing and answer the question?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:32 amYou give me a website about W to defend the coward kerry? I’ll ask you again, why did it take kerry 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge? Stop dancing and answer the question?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:32 am
Wow, Ann.
Your attention span is even shorter than mine!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:35 amOf course, Wayne, your point that the matter of Kerry’s discharge has absolutely no relevance to the news item that is the basis of this thread remains valid… Or, to put it another way, Michael is just a troll with nothing substantive to say about the current issue that is relevant today…
For that matter, Michael, can you tell us about Bush’s missing records? (Not that I’m really that interested…)
July 21st, 2007 at 2:37 amYou give me a website about W to defend the coward kerry? I’ll ask you again, why did it take kerry 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge? Stop dancing and answer the question?
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:32 am
You have got to be one of the stupidest people (and TV pundits) on the planet, Ann. I didn’t give you a website about W to defend Kerry you idiot. I gave you a website to prove that Bush lied us into a war in Iraq, which you insisted I do before telling me what evidence you have that Kerry was given a “less-than-honorable” discharge.
So, I’ll use small words so your acerebralist brain doesn’t get confused.
Where is the proof that Kerry was given a less-than-honorable discharge?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:37 am“Your attention span is even shorter than mine!
Comment by Egreggious — July 21, 2007″
So you can help wayne in explaining why it took kerry 5 times longer to get his Honorable Discharge than me?
July 21st, 2007 at 2:37 amYou don’t need proof, Michael, you need therapy.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:39 amMichael: Heres an idea cough up the evidence of a less than honorable discharge as you have been asked numerous times and then it would be only fitting for you to get the answer you seek
July 21st, 2007 at 2:40 am“I gave you a website to prove that Bush lied us into a war in Iraq
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 21, 2007″
wayne, what were those lies? Be specific and PROVE it! I can’t wait for your response but I will have to pick it up tomorrow because I’m going to bed. This will give you plenty of time to INVENT things!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:41 amThis will give you plenty of time to INVENT things!
Comment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:41 am
Hey1 Wayne needs to sleep too!
July 21st, 2007 at 2:43 amComment by michael — July 21, 2007 @ 2:41 am
You do that, and don’t come back until I do!
Meanwhile, Sean Hannity is waiting in bed for you.
July 21st, 2007 at 2:43 amWhat? Bush didn’t lie about anything. I was just reading a bunch of quotes from Democrats in the late 90’s and early 2000’s that believed Iraq had WMDs and needed to be taken out.
Hillary, John Edwards and Kerry for example. And Al Gore. These four were among the nation’s biggest war hawks at the time.
“We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and
consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to
take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air
and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to
end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From
a letter signed by Joe Lieberman (D), Dianne Feinstein
(D), Barbara A. Milulski (D), Tom Daschle (D), & John
Kerry (D) October 9, 1998.
“In the four years since the inspectors left,
intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has
worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and
sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his
involvement in the terrible events of September 11,
2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity
to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep
trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed
in that endeavor, he could alter the political and
security landscape of the Middle East, which as we
know all too well affects American security.” Hillary
Clinton (D) October 10, 2002.
“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of
the Persian Gulf and we should organize an
international coalition to eliminate his access to
weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons
of mass destruction has proven impossible to
completely deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” Al Gore
(D) 2002.
“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to
America and our allies, including our vital ally,
Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has
sought weapons of mass destruction through every
available means. We know that he has chemical and
biological weapons. He has already used them against
his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to
build more. We know that he is doing everything he can
to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he
gets closer to achieving that goal.” John Edwards (D)
Oct 10, 2002
War hawks!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 3:21 amFirst of all, Muknut, the first quote was from 1998 when Saddam was resisting UN inspectors coming into Iraq to do inspections. It was a totally different context in which we could only assume the worst and threaten force to pressure him in to compliance. BUT, he did comply and UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations from December 2002 into March 2003 — and found… NOTHING. Bush continued to ignore this fact, continuing to claim that he had irrevocable evidence that Saddam DID have weapons… which was a LIE.
The subsequent quotes from Hillary and Edwards were made well after Bush and his minions had been asserting all over the place that Saddam was a threat, had we WMD, and was threatening to use them against the US. Bush, et al., asserted that we had the hard intelligence to back up all those claims… In that context, of course, all anyone could do was assume that the Bush was telling the truth, take the threat seriously and say the things they said. BUT Bush was LYING.
The Al Gore quote is from a speech made on September 23, 2002 — again, BEFORE Saddam had complied with UN demands for inspections — and simply asserts that Saddam was a leader who should always be considered to be a threat. In fact, here’s what Gore actually said that day:
Your post reconfirms that leading Democrats have always taken the threat of Saddam seriously and offered a sensible response to the threat. Bush, on the other hand, skewed the facts, LIED to us, and took advantage of the well-meaning patriotism of the citizens of this nation and its politicians to move us into an unnecessary war that has cost us dearly and will for decades to come.
Thanks for clarifying that, Mucknut.
July 21st, 2007 at 4:58 amComment by dale54 — July 21, 2007 @ 4:58 am
Well said!
July 21st, 2007 at 6:45 amGreat post, dale54,
For those not convinced that Saddam was complying (when it became clear to him that Bush was crazier than he), here is Mohamed El Baradei’s report to the U.N.
http://www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/elbaradei27jan03.htm
And for those still not convinced that Bush lied about Iraq, please see:
http://www.buzzflash.com/ contributors/ 03/ 07/ 22_lies.html
July 21st, 2007 at 9:15 ami never really understood americans’ desire to leave iraq because american soldiers are dying in iraq.
they are soldiers right?there are no drafts in place in america right?
no one is holding a gun to their head forcing them tostay in iraq right?
the war is more than 6 years old. therefore most soldiers are on their 2nd or 3rd term there. and any new soldiers who signed up after 911 knows that they will be sent there so why all the fuss to get them out???
americans…the soldiers are soldiers. they knew what they were getting into!!!
July 21st, 2007 at 11:16 amamericans…the soldiers are soldiers. they knew what they were getting into!!!
Comment by just me
Oh please, that’s the biggest load of shit I’ve ever read. You don’t even know how long the war’s been going on — 4 years, 4 months.
Dismissed.
July 21st, 2007 at 11:22 amSo you have to spin like crazy to justify what your Democrat leaders said?
And it was based on CIA intel.
Unbelievable. You people really are sucking down the koolaid.
You think Hillary would stop the war? LMAO.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:15 pmShe received a political response? No shit–its Washington. Everything is political.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:45 pmSo you have to spin like crazy to justify what your Democrat leaders said?
muckdog — July 21, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
Mucknut, political speech is contextual — especially when it relates to diplomacy. Leave out the context — textual or political — and you are in danger of misinterpretation.
“Spin” is when words are deliberately taken out of context and interpreted to suggest another meaning than that which was originally intended… in other words, exactly what you did in your post.
Your spinning, however, leaves a little to be desired. In the Gore quote, for example, you should have included everything I did except for the last sentence. That way you’d have Gore saying that the option of war is viable. Just leave out the last line in which Gore makes it crystal clear he does not advocate going to war because he doesn’t think the situation warrants such drastic measures. Tsk, tsk. Your more accomplished wingnuts would not have missed that opportunity.
Stil your clumsy little attempt at “good ol’ cherry-pickin’” and spin is duly noted. You’ll have to do better, however. For a primer from the masters of spin, perhaps you could google “last throes” or “mission accomplished” for example.
July 21st, 2007 at 7:35 pmthere have been soldiers since i don’t know when…
romans have them and their role was to fight.
no questions asked.
if you don’t want to fight then be a blogger and fight
with your mouth!
even if i don’t know how long the was is .. so what?
it does not deny the fact that no one is forcing the soldiers to fight.
their job is to win the war….
americans please stop being complainers!
July 21st, 2007 at 10:59 pmamericans please stop being complainers!
Comment by just me — July 21, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
So… soldiers should expect to become human fodder? Shouldn’t we expect more competence from our leaders in the Pentagon who pushed this war, failed to plan for it, totally screwed things up, and now refuse to acknowledge their culpability for any of it?
And, by the way, our leaders ARE forcing our soldiers to fight in longer and longer tours of duty with little rest. Bush, et al. covering their a**es for their poor planning by extending soldiers’ tours of duty. How utterly incompetent!! Yet, weary as they must be, our soldiers continue to respond… and your response to our soldiers is “Tough sh*t! You signed up for it!”
I’m glad you aren’t a complainer, just me. It’s easy not to complain when you aren’t doing the fighting. And to those fighting on your behalf, you say, “Yeah, let them suffer, they’re soldiers after all.”
Our soldiers deserve better.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:46 amwhat is a tour of duty now? 16 months? 48 months?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 amit means that the soldiers who enlisted 16 months ago knew that iraq will not be won in 16 months. yet they signed up for the tour.
america has a PAID military. they are not volunteers. it is a career choice to join the us military.like any career, you have difficult times and light times.
that is life…
i am not an american but if some country was trying to kill my fellow citizens by blowing up my city then i would be the first to go and invade that country. no questions asked!no complains, no whining…
americans are becoming soft.
Sen. Clinton and Kerry are on the right track here. The Pentagon needs to address these critical issues. If plans are in place to redeploy troops, Gates should let Congress know what they are. Once again Sen. Kerry has shown that this administration is accountable to Congress. We are losing more than a 100 troops every month in Iraq. Redeployment is a complicated process and Gates should answer Clinton’s questions. Clearly if Kerry were president our troops would have been home by now and would not have been placed in harm’s way.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:58 am“our troops would have been home by now and would not have been placed in harm’s way”
so what is the use of the military then? it is their job to be in harm’s way so that other people will be safe at home.
the military’s place is never at home…they should be out of the country so that the enemy cannot come here..
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:34 am