Clinton responds to Pentagon on redeployment.
Clinton responds to Pentagon on redeployment.
Earlier this week, Under Secretary of Defense Eric Edelman wrote to Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), telling her, “Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda.” Today, Clinton responded to Defense Secretary Robert Gates:
Rather than offer to brief the congressional oversight committees on this critical issue, Under Secretary Edelman – writing on your behalf – instead claims that congressional oversight emboldens our enemies. Under Secretary Edelman has his priorities backward. … Indeed, you acknowledged the importance of Congress in our Iraq policy at a hearing before the House Armed Services Committee in March, when you stated, “I believe that the debate here on the Hill and the issues that have been raised have been helpful in bringing pressure to bear on the Maliki government and on the Iraqis in knowing that there is a very real limit to American patience in this entire enterprise.”
Redeploying out of Iraq will be difficult and requires careful planning. I continue to call on the Bush Administration to immediately provide a redeployment strategy that will keep our brave men and women safe as they leave Iraq – instead of adhering to a political strategy to attack those who rightfully question their competence and preparedness after years of mistakes and misjudgments.
Full letter below:
July 19, 2007
The Honorable Robert M. Gates
Secretary of Defense
The United States Department of Defense
The Pentagon
Suite 319
Washington, D.C. 20301
Dear Mr. Secretary:
On May 22, 2007, I wrote to you to request that you provide the appropriate oversight committees in Congress – including the Senate Armed Services Committee – with briefings on what current contingency plans exist for the future withdrawal of United States forces from Iraq. Alternatively, if no such plans exist, I asked for an explanation for the decision not to engage in such planning.
I am in receipt of a letter from Eric Edelman, the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy who wrote that he was responding on your behalf. Under Secretary Edelman’s response did not address the issues raised in my letter and instead made spurious arguments to avoid addressing contingency planning for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.
As I noted in my original letter, “the seeds of many problems that continue to plague our troops and mission in Iraq were planted in the failure to adequately plan for the conflict and properly equip our men and women in uniform. Congress must be sure that we are prepared to withdraw our forces without any unnecessary danger.”
Rather than offer to brief the congressional oversight committees on this critical issue, Under Secretary Edelman – writing on your behalf – instead claims that congressional oversight emboldens our enemies. Under Secretary Edelman has his priorities backward. Open and honest debate and congressional oversight strengthens our nation and supports our military. His suggestion to the contrary is outrageous and dangerous. Indeed, you acknowledged the importance of Congress in our Iraq policy at a hearing before the House Armed Services Committee in March, when you stated, “I believe that the debate here on the Hill and the issues that have been raised have been helpful in bringing pressure to bear on the Maliki government and on the Iraqis in knowing that there is a very real limit to American patience in this entire enterprise.”
Redeploying out of Iraq will be difficult and requires careful planning. I continue to call on the Bush Administration to immediately provide a redeployment strategy that will keep our brave men and women safe as they leave Iraq – instead of adhering to a political strategy to attack those who rightfully question their competence and preparedness after years of mistakes and misjudgments.
Other members of this Administration have not engaged in political attacks when the prospect of withdrawal planning has been raised. At the June 7 Armed Services Committee confirmation hearing on Lieutenant General Douglas Lute, I asked General Lute “what level of planning has taken place” and “whether the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs have been briefed about the level of planning.” I also asked General Lute to determine “what kind of timeline would exist if a decision for either military or political reasons were taken to begin withdrawal” and if he considered this kind of planning to be part of his responsibilities.
General Lute replied, “Thank you Senator. I do think such an adaptation, if the conditions on the ground call for it, will be part of this position.”
I renew my request for a briefing, classified if necessary, on current plans for the future withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq or an explanation for the decision not to engage in such planning. I also renew my concern that our troops will be placed in unnecessary danger if the Bush Administration fails to plan for the withdrawal of U.S. Forces. Finally, I request that you describe whether Under Secretary Edelman’s letter accurately characterizes your views as Secretary of Defense.
I would appreciate the courtesy of a prompt response directly from you. Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely yours,
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Hillary is the anti-christ.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:38 am….awaiting Pentagon response to Hillary’s response. Hopefully, she’ll leak that, too.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:39 amLooks like the Kool-Aid swillers have already taken over this thread. Next…
July 20th, 2007 at 10:41 amwell that was… polite.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:43 amGetting our troops out is going to take a hell of a lot more than a nice little letter ‘encouraging’ change. DO SOMETHING HILLARY!!!
Hillary is the anti-christ.
Comment by Daryll — July 20, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Somehow I don’t think Jesus would approve of a needless and protracted war fought for oil resources and regional empire-building.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:44 amDO SOMETHING HILLARY!!!
Comment by hil — July 20, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Ah yes, the “do something” plan. Almost as useful as the “do anything” plan.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:45 amDaryll, when your fellow trolls are mocking you, it’s time to rethink your position and posting persona.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:45 amHillary is right in not allowing Edelman to get away with his tactics. ALL the Dems need to call this administration to account, keep them focused on the issues at hand, and not allow them to do their little tricks with political diversions.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:47 amYou don’t have to be a fan of Senator Clinton to agree with what she says.
Wednday Colin Powell even said more…he said :”we cannot sustain our military presence at this level in Iraq”.
Powell knows about military being ex-Chief of Staff. Shall we also criticise Powell for saying basically the same thing.
Few days ago Senator George Voinovich of Ohio(R)m, said that :’Bush f.. up the war in Iraq’….
The criticism of this war handling is coming from many directions ….because people want to see substance rather than slogans only.
And the time to ask is now.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:48 amMr. President, Daryll, Pentegon: What are the dates of your DD214’s?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:49 amMe thinks she doth protest too much.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:50 amSomehow I don’t think Jesus would approve of a needless and protracted war fought for oil resources and regional empire-building.
Comment by toasterhead — July 20, 2007 @ 10:44 am
You need to turn your Bible upside down and read it backwards.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:50 amYou need to turn your Bible upside down and read it backwards.
Comment by Egreggious — July 20, 2007 @ 10:50 am
I tried that – all I got was the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:52 amBush’s “culture of accountability” sure spends a lot of time and effort trying to do ANYTHING to avoid being held accountable. Afraid of what might be found?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:53 amWow! Hillary put the smack down.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:54 amHillary is the anti-christ.
Comment by Daryll
Really? I folllowed the link on your handle, and found pic’s of your pastor smashing a Virgin Mary statue…something about idolatry. Ok, whatever….kinda disturbing to see “Jesus is next”, though. What’s on the agenda this Sunday Darryl?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:59 amWhat Would Jesus Do? NOTHING! We’re gonna bash his head in too?
A Clinton wants to surrender. How is this news?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:00 amDaryll
Dude, I found this on your website:
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of Holiness
I’m a bicyclist, as such I’m not allowed on most highways, does that mean I’m going to hell because I can’t get into heaven?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:01 amExcellent letter. Our girl’s got shiny brass balls. “Excuse me Mr. Gates, but I got this letter here from a little sh*t…um, Elderwad, one of yours is he? Well, funny thing, I addressed a letter to you on behalf of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and other oversight committees in Congress but, he replied. Odd thing. So, we sent his crazy-ass letter around and we were just wondering, does he speak for you?
That’s how you play.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:02 amEdelman, a long time Cheney/Wolfowitz cronie, is a neocons neocon who has never been confirmed by the senate.
Will Gates, who is not a neocon, fire him?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:02 amHillary is not a John Kerry who turned the other cheek when he was attacked. She’ll fight fire with fire.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:08 amDoes anyone else think of ‘Hall & Oats’ when Hillary comes up in conversation?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:10 am#12 Mr. President, Daryll, Pentegon: What are the dates of your DD214’s?
Comment by greenie
Greenie,
They wouldn’t know a DD214 if it bit them in their chickenhawk ass!!! As you know, they don’t give Honorable Discharges for Keyboard Commandos and no Purple Hearts for Carpal Tunnel either.
Sorry Trolls, and no VA bennies for you!!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:12 amI so want Hillary to win the presidency, it would make all the wingnuts republicans either flee this country, or choke on their own spittle.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:12 amDaryll,
When did you become the judge of things?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:13 amdemocrats should be forewarned that the elections of 2008 are not going to be just democrats versus republicans, but also democrats verses THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
My predication is that democrats WILL NOT BE PREPARED FOR THIS, that democrats are studiously strategizing their campaigns around running against republicans without any forethought as to how to counter the workings of the Federal Government against them a.k.a., Kerry swiftboating part II Xtreme: Federal Intervention.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:13 am.
#28 Daryll,
When did you become the judge of things?
Comment by Crump’s Brother
That happened when Gezus handed him the holy scroll of Trolldom from the peak of Mt. Wacko!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:15 amHillary needs to be out actively finding a third party to run so she can win with 43% of the vote.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:16 amAsking these clowns for anything these days is like asking for a chymp to type Shakespear on the first try. Or read the Shakespears…
July 20th, 2007 at 11:17 amThey banned “willyloman” and scrubbed up some of the posts from that handle.
——- That was an E-mail I received from willyloman.
A moment of silence would be in order.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:17 amEdelman should certainly be criticized for claiming that H. Clinton is falling under the spell of enemy propaganda. But one suspects that this is being done more for the fact that Clinton is the Democrats’s front runner than because she is such a vociferous anti-war critic, which she is not. If only Clinton would have the common sense and courage to call for the immediate withdrawal of the troops from that abattoir in Iraq.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:20 amHow dare she! Now the Treasury Department will be forced to seize her campaign funds because she is clearly impeding to flowering of Democracy in Iraq. Thank Jeebus that Our Fearless Leader had the foresight to see this treachery.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:22 amSGT Higgins -
And our resident troll, mr p/CT/Joker and her/his other names (including the ones namejacked) is still merrily shitting all over this site.
Gotta wonder who now controls this site’s censor filters!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:23 amHillary’s campaign funds come from the Chi-Coms how do you seize those?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:27 am#15 – ToasterHead — I really chuckled reading your comback to #14 — that was VERY funny! Now, I’ll have Led Zeppelin playing in my head most of the day!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:27 amI suggest that the Democrats in Congress and the Senate call on the US soldiers to desert. It is clear that the war is hurting US interests at the expense of US lives. The Republicans are blocking any moves to address this situation.
Violating the law to do what is the right thing is the only option left. If many leading public figures in the US call on US soldiers to disragard their orders and many US soldiers follow up on that then that will mean the end of the war.
No one will be prosecuted for this, because there will be far to many people who would have to be prosecuted.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:27 amIt is not easy securing Iraq, but if we decide to quit and “redeploy,†Americans should at least accept that the effort to stabilize Iraq was a crushing military defeat, that our generation established a precedent of withdrawing an entire army group from combat operations on the battlefield, and that the consequences will be better known even to our enemies than they are to us.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:33 amAnd our resident troll, mr p/CT/Joker and her/his other names (including the ones namejacked) is still merrily shitting all over this site.
Gotta wonder who now controls this site’s censor filters!
Comment by upside00
———————
I don’t wonder. I’ll give TP until tomorrow. Either they ‘catch up’ and ban Mr. P….or I’ll give firedoglake and C&L a try.
Latest from willy follows:
I have been looking at Firedoglake and C&L (registered at both) and will keep the same name.
No, I said nothing offensive except that they were scrubbing posts.
other posters on that thread had stuff removed as well.
I don’t know what was behind it, but you and I were conversing when I got zapped, and there was nothing offensive in the posts. Except of course that TP might consider leaving someone like me who defends other posters from Mr. Pee, and consider banning his IP for that stuff with Tired of Fighting.
But, there you go. Now you know how Mr. Pee keeps on going, no matter what things he says.
Thanks for your concern and I will see you in blogland. i’ll be the one with the cheese puff fingers.
Later
willy
———————————
E-mail from willyloman, recently banned from TP, while Mr. P and his ilk remain.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:35 am#41 It is not easy securing Iraq, but if we decide to quit and “redeploy,†Americans should at least accept that the effort to stabilize Iraq was a crushing military defeat, that our generation established a precedent of withdrawing an entire army group from combat operations on the battlefield, and that the consequences will be better known even to our enemies than they are to us.
Comment by Unvarnished Truth
What “our” generation established was enabling a NeoCon Cabal who started an illegal war and continued with an illegal occupation and will never figure out that a civil war will never be “won” by the occupying army when both sides just want that occupying force to leave their f*cking country!! You might feel the same way if, say China was here trying to take your natural resources while blowing up your infrastructure.
Just something to consider.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:38 amWhat part of the truth can you folks not comprehend??? Why not just tell the truth, Hillary???
The truth and reality is that her comments and political grandstanding DO fuel the propaganda machines of the enemy. No one can deny that.
Hillary DOESN’T CARE if it feeds the propaganda machine. Why won’t she just come out and tell the truth that she doesn’t care if her comments bolster the insurgents because they aren’t the real enemy. The Republicans, and particularly George Bush, are the enemy. You can see it. I can see it. Everyone can see it. Just say it and move on.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:39 amFor you chicken-hawks with big mouths and no brains : enlist and go!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:44 am#44 Greg -
You are JUST like the assclowns who said the same thing about Vietnam. Wake up and accept that your ‘fearless’ leadership in the WH are the real supporters of the insurgency, since they have allowed the leaders of AQ to still be in charge and to recruit more new insurgents than anyone else.
I served in that made-up war and it is just like this made-up war, just hasn’t killed as many brave US military men and women …..YET!
July 20th, 2007 at 11:44 amthank you, thank you osama for reading this forum…..and thank you for encouraging US soldiers to disregard the oaths that they took and disregard their “orders”…You Sir are an idiot…excuse me ..a super idiot who has been living in a hole since 1969 and has finally climbed out. Soldiers today are highly educated, patriotic volunteers. They are not the draft dodging bastards like you sir. I suggest that next time before you post…please open your mouth and remove the size 15 foot, that is apparently blocking blood flow to your brain.
Actually i believe you are probably one of the folks that enjoys protesting families of dead american service men.
Perhaps if you packed you bags now you could make the next boat for talibaland…traitor
July 20th, 2007 at 11:45 amHilary is a fat whore! …oh you guys are talking about Clinton…I thought you were talking about Duff….
July 20th, 2007 at 11:48 amI’ll second the motion from my colleague the Honorable Mr. Wright, and yield back the balance of my time.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:48 am“Asking these clowns for anything these days is like asking for a chymp to type Shakespear on the first try. Or read the Shakespears…”
Or like asking a chimp to SPELL Shakespeare on the first or even second try… LOL
By the way, the comments that are referred to here were a request to outline the current plan of how we would keep our troops safe in the event that we chose to recall some large portion of them, or if such a plan even existed. In light of some of the Bush administration’s over-looking of long-term consequences of short-term actions, It is not unreasonable to ask – “Did you think of this and what is your plan if it happens?” Hopefully the answer isn’t “By the time we pull our troops out, the Iraqi’s will be celebrating us as liberators with joyous parades all the way to the airport,” because we’ve heard that story before from this crowd, haven’t we?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:48 amThe Republicans and Hillary both benefit from this story. The Republicans want Hillary to be the Democratic nominee for President. This story separates her from the pack and makes her the leading voice on Iraq disengagement. I’m sure its not unintentional that this story got big play in the corporate media. The Republicans have prepared for years for a Presidential battle with Hillary. This is the fight they want.
While I support Hillary’s call for answers about redeployment I’d suggest the other candidates step forward and not let Hillary be the lone Democratic Presidential contender speaking about this.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:52 amI would suggest to those neocons that they get used to saying Madam President in the near future. The war in Iraq is completely lost. The neocon party only got kicked to the curb in the last election, come ‘08 they will be kick into the street. sweet
July 20th, 2007 at 11:54 amToo many have died in Iraq. How will knowing our plans to withdraw help the enemy? And who is the enemy it will help? And we do not have to have one particular plan but various plans with contingency provisions. Remember when we went to war? Everyone knew it was coming – especially our enemies. No one accussed the Bush administration of aiding the enemy when we were leading up to war. Democracy without accountability and open debate is no longer a democracy.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:54 amWhy would the Pentagon need a plan to keep the troops safe during a withdrawal?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:54 amThey haven’t been the slightest bit concerned with their safety so far!
The real propaganda machine: The Bush Crime familiy
July 20th, 2007 at 11:54 amIn those immortal words from Cool Hand Luke, What we have here, is a failure to communicate. Meaningful dialogue is healthy. Even healthier is disagreement based on factual information. What is unforgivable is to put your own political interests, greed, desire for power, and do anything to get to the oval office above the good of the nation. Both Hil and who sicko hubby, Slick Willy, are good examples of the “rape, pillage, and plunder” mentality of a politico, regardless of party, who is power mad…mad I tell you, mad!!! Nearly all of you on this post don’t have a freakin’ clue about war and its tactics. The problem lies with years of lackluster leadership in the military and the civilians who supposedly had oversight. All of you who think Hil is the panacea for fixing anything in this country had better learn Arabic or Chinese. You’ll need it when she sells out the country.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:56 amOnce we begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, the terrorists will be emboldened and will gain many, many more willing to become sucide murderers not only in America but also in Europe, Russia & China and they will not stop knowing they have won a great Victory in Iraq thanks to the Democrats & those few foolhardy Republicans who have been put to sleep by the power hungry democrats who will sacrifice America in their lust for “power”.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:57 amIt is the hallmark of populist fascist regimes to accuse those who question them of being unpatriotic. Those who fall for that allow their freedoms to be usurped by men who think they should have the power as the sole “decider” to make their choices and choose their opinions for them. Democracy and the Republican Lincoln’s ideals of “Government of the people, by the people, for the people” exist only if the people are allowed to freely and openly question their leaders on any topic of public policy, especially those for which the people are beings asked to put their lives or the lives of their brave sons and daughters at risk for the sake of those policies.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:57 amI invite any and all who think they know the answer to solving any of the nation’s problems to serve, in any capacity (civil or military), for the good of the nation. The quick fixes I see posted here do not address second and third order effects of said changes. It is easy to talk the talk. Try walking the walk. I have 14+ years as a Green Beret and still serving.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:00 pm#59 – Thanks gburke – I know the walk you make each day. Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:02 pmThe will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:02 pmT. Jefferson
Edelman’s contemptible response to the Senator’s request should get him fired. He is one of the neoconmen architects of this debacle in Iraq-he is partly responsible for the shoddy planning and ideological grandstanding that have marked this war.
Our women and men in the military are in Iraq, following orders, and 99% of them act professionally and with honor. The same cannot be said of the White House occupant and his minions, like Edelman.
I am disgusted that my tax dollars pay Edelman’s salary. I wouln’t hire him to clean the dog poop from my yard.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:02 pmIt is not easy securing Iraq, but if we decide to quit and “redeploy,†Americans should at least accept that the effort to stabilize Iraq was a crushing military defeat, that our generation established a precedent of withdrawing an entire army group from combat operations on the battlefield, and that the consequences will be better known even to our enemies than they are to us.
Comment by Unvarnished Truth — July 20, 2007 @ 11:33 am
So?
It’s defeat either way. We either stay and are bankrupted or leave having learned a valuable lession about engaging in a pointless “preventative” war with minimal troop strength and no exit strategy.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:03 pmSomething the weak minded surrender lobby headed by Clinton fail to grasp is the results of surrender.
It is easier to envision post-democratic Iraq as a tripartite badlands: a shaky Kurdistan living under the fear of alternate invasion from either oil-hungry Turkey or an ascendant Iran; a Sunni Anbar serving, like Waziristan or Somalia, as a terrorist haven, effused with Wahhabi money and sharia courts; and an Arab Shiite rump state of Iran, residing in safety under an Iranian nuclear umbrella, that would be the convenient jumping off point for Shiite insurgents in the Gulf States. The sorting out of populations into these various enclaves would be messy and bloody, if not like the Pakistani partition of 1947, at least akin to what we saw in the Balkans during the 1990s.
What would the effect be of all this televised carnage and chaos on the United States? Antiwar critics would turn on a dime — disclaiming their prior assertions that our presence ipso facto had been the chief cause of the violence in Iraq. Instead, when the mass beheadings of female reformers and serial shootings of “collaborators†appeared on our screens, American and European leftists would almost immediately blame our fickleness for the carnage. Theirs would not be entirely a humanitarian critique — that our withdrawal was not handled sensibly or with proper concern for civilian security — as much a damning indictment of our military incompetence, far greater than the 1990s furor during the no-fly-zone years over the Shiite and Kurdish massacres that resulted from our failure to go to Baghdad in 1991. Just as our resolve and stubbornness are now alleged to have resulted in the deaths of thousands, so our irresoluteness would soon be cited for the murders of tens of thousands.
A second effect would be a sort of psychological devastation of the U.S. military, particularly the army. Critics of the Iraq war allege that once out of Iraq, we would not have precious assets exposed in Iraq (where the enemy is), and thus enjoy better options in dealing with, for example, Iran. But what precisely is the point? That our military would flee the messy encounter with al Qaeda to reengage al Qaeda on supposedly better terrain and with better odds? As in Afghanistan? The Pakistani borderlands? Or that a Shiite Iran should be fearful of an America freed up through defeat by Sunni terrorists?
Why would an Islamist cadre bumble into a clean-shooting war with our superior ships and planes when it had previously mastered the blueprint of fighting our foot soldiers house-to-house? If we take out nuclear installations in Iran cleanly from the air, we forget that the retaliation will not be with Scud missiles, but more likely terrorist attacks against our troops somewhere in the Middle East or our civilians at home — as all such deterrence against such terrorism will be lost in the mess in Anbar.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:05 pmJust make War Profiteering a crime and enforce it retroactively (as it should be). Any company that profits, or has profited in the past must return those profits. A fund will be established with the money for Iraq reconstruction and Veteran’s care. Also, abolish any foreign ownership of Iraqi oilfields. The occupation would end in about five minutes.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:05 pmMcCain is gone, rudy won’t win in the South, mitt will run out of money and thompson is a jerk. too bad, so sad.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:05 pmgburke and Duke -
I, too, have scars from ChiCom shrapnel 37 years old and learned that fighting an illegal and immoral war doesn’t make it right, even if it is the US fighting it.
And tell me what the solution to “win” this occupation is? Maybe like in Vietnam, when we decided we “had to destroy the country to save it”. If so, I will pray for your souls!
July 20th, 2007 at 12:08 pmPresident Bush has defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan, Saddam Hussien in Iraq, caused Libyia to give up it’s nuke program, caused N. Korea to shutdown it’s Nuke Reactors, on the verge of causing Iran to follow suit, is prosecuting a war on terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan and having to fight the Democrats who have “duped” the american public into thinking that once we withdraw from Iraq, all Terrorism will cease.
Only Future historians will recognise the greatness of President George W. Bush, the currenly public cannot discern it’s right hand from it’s left thanks to the propaganda programs by the Democrats.
What have you accomplished Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi in the past two years since “your victory?”
July 20th, 2007 at 12:11 pmComment by Unvarnished Truth — July 20, 2007 @ 11:33 am
You have any problem with “our generation” telling the world that illegal “preemptive” attacks are A-okay. Way I see it China, North Korea, Cuba, and any other nation who has been screwed with by the US has every right to attack us if they wish. After all, all they know need is an assumption of threat.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:14 pmbush is hovering at 26. SWEET. The neocon presidential candidates combined have less money in the bank than Clinton. bush is a jackass that is taking the neocon for a ride.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:14 pmWonderful to read that Hilary will not back down against the ridiculous neocon propaganda. I followed Daryll’s link to that truly frightening website. I have no idea who Daryll is, but if he is anything representative of the website it is so funny to think that he (or she?) is most likely the demographic that the Bush administration/GOP’s could care less about, but need so desperately to win any election; the uneducated, the impoverished, the blindly following religious fanatic. In other words, the morons of America.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:15 pmWhen did the spelling of “undersecretary” change? It used to be one word.
And for the blockheads who suggest that, when it comes to nations and war, “acknowledgment of failure” = “surrender” – buy/rent a dictionary. Then get someone to read you, and explain to you, the definition. To whom shall surrender be made? Who shall write the treaty? What shall be the terms?
This immoral and illegal enterprise has been doomed to failure from the beginning, as any cursory reading of history would show, even had there been the best of plans for the occupation. In that way it is very much like VietNam.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:16 pmSomething else for Clinton and the surrender lobby to consider.
In fact, “redeployment†is a euphemism for flight from the battlefield. And we should no more expect an al Qaeda that won in Iraq to stop from pressing on to Kuwait or Saudi Arabia than we should imagine that a defeated U.S. military could rally and hold the line in the Gulf. Would the IEDs, the suicide bombers, the Internet videos of beheadings, the explosions in schools and mosques cease because they now would have to relocate across the border into Kuwait or Saudi Arabia?
In essence, the American military would be reconstituted for a generation — and recognized as such by our enemies — as a two-pronged force of air and sea power. The army at best would stay capable of fighting non-existent conventional wars but acknowledged as incapable of putting down increasingly frequent insurgencies. If Vietnam, Beirut, or Mogadishu left doubt as to the seriousness of American guarantees, Iraq would confirm that it is a dangerous thing to ally oneself with an American government and military. Aside from realignment in the Middle East, South Korea, Taiwan, and the Philippines would have to make the necessary “readjustments.â€
July 20th, 2007 at 12:18 pm6,000,000,000 people in the World, at least 1,000,000,000 of them Muslim, and many of these fundamentalist and anti-American. Guess our troops will be fighting the (coined phrase) “War on Terror” forever (or until our country is financially and/or militarily destroyed by China).
July 20th, 2007 at 12:20 pmThere is nothing wrong with a US senator asking those in charge of defense in a time of war what the exit strategy will be when the time comes.
Its getting to the point where asking a Gov official to be held accountable for their job duties gets played down as bi-partisan attack regardless of the underlying motive for asking.
Do I think Hillary has HUGE political motives regarding her address to Mr Gates, Yes. But I also want to know the same thing as an American citizen with friends and family in the war. Do we have an exit strategy? If so, what does it intell without divulging direct intelligence? Will we see an end to occupation in the next 10 years or does the military expect this nation building mission to move more into the decade planning?
I think all to often we don’t look at some real motives for us being over there and how valid they are. We NEED oil people. We also need to make sure we get that oil at a price that does not cripple us. I can barely afford to get to work all week when gas prices hit 3.20 a gallon.
What price are you willing to pay in order to live the standard of living you exist within? Worth national pride, National Image, national unity, is the cheaper gas worth dead foreign people?
I am against this war because of the exploitation of minds it perpetuates. Americans VS Americans. Republicans VS Democrats, Red Vs Blue Christians Vs non-believers.
I would unite behind the truth, but no one has given us the truth. Instead they feed us excuses and lies the whole time lining their pockets with private money from special interest and over bloated salaries from our tax dollars only to turn a blind eye or an accusing finger when asked “What exactly are you doing?”
July 20th, 2007 at 12:21 pmRef #66
My comment invited those who think they know any answers to serve (civil or miitary). You can protest the system and get NOWHERE or join the system and change it from the inside if you so desire.
Being a fellow combat vet I am sure you understand that nothing is simple in diplomacy. Free radicals are everywhere and countries change their policies daily. I do not envy the Office of the Presidency, but I do proudly serve under it. The President, any US president, has an extremely difficult job. The first job of ANY government is the security of its people. I will help anyway I can.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:21 pmIf Vietnam, Beirut, or Mogadishu left doubt as to the seriousness of American guarantees, Iraq would confirm that it is a dangerous thing to ally oneself with an American government and military. Comment by Unvarnished Truth
WTF is this all about? We were never “invited” into Iraq, except by the NeoCons in DC! We chose to invade that country and put in a puppet government (like in Vietnam) and wonder why it is failing. Imposing your will and concept of democracy doesn’t work… especially when you have totally f*cked it up in your ownd damn country!!
July 20th, 2007 at 12:23 pmI would not mistake Kuwait or Saudi Arabia for Iraq. Somehow, I think that the governments in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are more stable than Iraq. If VietNam falls, Calif. is next. LOL
July 20th, 2007 at 12:23 pm#78 John Auustin -
Yea Saudi is stable, under a Monarchy… it is also the primary supplier of insurgents and money to Iraq, but none of the trolls here want to face that bit of reality! Our approach to this has been: go where Daddy was threatened by a bad guy, where there is a lot of oil and where it will be easy to win.
Hows that all working out for the NeoCons (and the rest of the world)?
July 20th, 2007 at 12:27 pmWhy can Conservatives only come up with “She hates america” for questioning what the rest of the friggin country is questioning too? And who are YOU to say who hates america???
July 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pmGregg, you spilled some truth accidently. Without a doubt Bush is the enemy. The insurgents, Osama, Sadam, and all the Muslim extremists are our enemies too, but none of them has done as much damage to our country as Chimpf*ck and his administration.
He has squandered the lives and bodies of our finest, trillions of dollars and tainted our reputation for his War. My kids and grandkids are much more likely to die of a terrorist attack because of Bush’s personal War. He has pissed all over civil rights and the Constitution and has put all his cronies above the law.
The only thing worse are the sycophantic, syphalitic whores who still support him. You don’t belong in this country, you would be much more comfortable in a dictatorship where you can follow the orders and swear allegiance to a Dear Leader.
Get out of my country b*tch.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:32 pmPlease people IGNORE THE TROLLS
- Especially Mr. Pr(ick)
- yesterday was ridiculous
- that idiot is destroying your site
- he and CT_V1 should be banned from the site.
If it continues you will find yourself with very few people coming here.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:41 pmBush has no credibility and to suggest that the war in Iraq is anything other than a disaster is to believe that Sunshine Patriotism is actually
July 20th, 2007 at 12:43 pmrelevent/ Long after this war is over the wounds of our soldiers and the
people of Iraq will fester and make this country and this world a more dangerous place. Families have been ripped apart and our military is
stuck in a sand hole that sucks our young men and women into the
qbysse.. Hillary Clinton is looking for a way out of this morass and she
should be listened too , not pilloried for asking questions . I tire of the
Republicans and their attemp to salvage the Bush and Chaney show.
It should be cancelled and the neocons sent to Gilligan’s Island where they can only damage themselves. Keep up the pressure and mayble someday we’ll see Bush and Chaney waving goodby to the country along side a lifesize picture of Dick Nixon. That is a reality show worth supporting.
David A Dowding
Future historians will probably wonder why bush and cheney were not tried at The Hague for crimes against humanity. Their pre-emptive attack was nothing more than premeditated murder. Shock and Awe killed mostly women and children. bush has the blood of tens of thousands of innocent people on his hands, all due to his lies.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm#85 Shock and Awe killed mostly women and children. bush has the blood of tens of thousands of innocent people on his hands, all due to his lies.
Comment by John Austin
When has this ever been an issue for him and his Cabal? OHHH…..wait…..when it is stem cells, THEN they care! (But that is only when the Right Wing Wackos like Dobson and Robertson are looking over their shoulder AND there is profit in it for the Pharmas.)
July 20th, 2007 at 1:19 pmIn essence, the American military would be reconstituted for a generation — and recognized as such by our enemies — as a two-pronged force of air and sea power. The army at best would stay capable of fighting non-existent conventional wars but acknowledged as incapable of putting down increasingly frequent insurgencies. If Vietnam, Beirut, or Mogadishu left doubt as to the seriousness of American guarantees, Iraq would confirm that it is a dangerous thing to ally oneself with an American government and military. Aside from realignment in the Middle East, South Korea, Taiwan, and the Philippines would have to make the necessary “readjustments.â€
Comment by Unvarnished Truth — July 20, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
Sounds good to me. Insurgencies are an inevitable by-product of colonial and post-colonial rule. Nobody is very good at putting them down. Countries already know that it’s dangerous to ally themselves with the American government and military – there’s a fifty-year history of bad trade deals and assassinations and coups and debt slavery that leaves little doubt that it’s dangerous to work with the U.S., unless you’re one of the lucky leaders who takes the bribes.
Iraq is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Whether we redeploy or not. Any redeployment is going to take 12-18 months, which should give the GOI more than enough time to get their act together and get at least some of the factions to talk to each other. The fact that we have set a date for withdrawal will encourage them to begin talking about reconciliation, as Muqtada as-Sadr has said. ISI will not last long in Iraq without having our military to kick around, so they will no longer be a factor.
We need to not only reestablish a niche for our military power, we need a new face for our diplomatic power as well. This country is a two-faced joke barely tolerated in most foreign capitals. We have to fix that problem if we want to have any hope of solving the terrorism problem.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:27 pmIn Vietnam, we escalated to bring fear to the North Vietnamese and they escalated because we were there and they were not afraid.
In Iraq, we surge to counter the insurgency and the insurgents come to Iraq because we are there.
In Vietnam, we did the fighting for the South Vietnamese because they were incompetent to protect themselves.
In Iraq, we do the fighting for the Iraqis so they can decide who gets the oil revenues and don’t have to waste time fighting.
Take an egg and put it in a hot frying pan. That’s the US Military in Iraq.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:41 pmUpside00
July 20th, 2007 at 1:43 pmCasualties incurred in Iraq are 90+% non-traditional combat related. No force on force. No bullets flying. Our forces are killed or maimed by remote detonated devices. There is no enemy in sight, much like it was in VN. There is no visible enemy chain of command. Traditional tactics, for which our forces trained over the past 62 years, won’t work. Who do you fight? Politicos and MSM scream, this is a civil war. Obviously, these folks don’t know anything about civil war, or even war in general. It’s not a civil war, it’s a war driven by third party interests, read Iran, Syria, & others, from outside Iraq. How do we win? You can’t win a whizzin contest with skunks. The enemy we fight hides behind women and children, amongst responsible citizens of Iraq, remaining faceless and nameless, only to strike with obvious impunity with cell phones and garage door openers. We need a plan, and I would bet my last penny that we have one in place. Do we need to allow Congress to have wholesale access to these plans so they can leak them to the NYT and other anti-American MSM outlets? No. Absolutely not. Select members of Armed Forces Committees, yes, as long as they are not running for President in 08 – regardless of party affiliation. Hillary is using this whole bru ha ha for political gain – which demonstrates why she is not a wise choice to lead this nation. I repeat, y’all had better learn Farci, Arabic, or Chinese if she’s elected.
Love her or hate her she is right. Too many times this administration has ignored the wants of the American people and failed in their attempts to do things their way. How dare he have someone else draft a letter to her and then not have the reasonable questions asked answered. Typical. I for one cannot wait until this administration is far from power. I will vote for Hilary. Two Clintons in the White House is better than Bush. Americans need to be inspired again. I don’t ask much from our leaders but I at least want to feel that they are smarter than me(or the average fourth grader for that matter). Why is this man in charge of running our country when he can’t even spell? It’s almost not funny anymore. People are dying.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:43 pmI repeat, y’all had better learn Farci, Arabic, or Chinese if she’s elected.
Comment by Duke — July 20, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
From experience, I’d recommend Farsi or Chinese. Arabic is crazy hard.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:47 pm#82 nanlichi ….words cannot describe what an idiot you truly must be. Our country is in a lot of trouble with people like you.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pmDuke, forgive me for being disrespectful, but you are really an idiot. You would bet your last penny that these clowns in the WH have a plan in place?
So tell me Einstein, what are they waiting for? Maybe drop an A bomb so the blast ruins all the cell phones and garage door openers?
We can not win this war because we create two more terrorists for everyone we kill. Let the bastards come to our country where we know the terrain, we know the neighbors.
Get us the f*ck out of Iraq. Our guys are dying so the pathetic loser doesn’t have to admit he’s wrong. That’s the simple and honest answer.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pmGWsupporter,
Glad you stepped up, not many sycophantic whores self identify as such.
Give me an honest reason why you support Bush. Why is he more than just a hay bale desperately in need of a broadhead?
July 20th, 2007 at 2:11 pmNanlichi
It is apparent you’ve never served in the military – or at least at senior levels. All levels of the military are planning for something. That said, you must read Murphy’s Rules of War one of which is No plan ever survives first contact. There was a plan for Iraq. It did not survive the IEDs. There’s a plan to leave, but why would you want to tell all of your enemies? As I said before, dialogue and disagreement are healthy, but you must also have some idea of facts and history. You want the sons of unmarried parents to come to this country? Careful what you wish for as it might come true. You are reacting from a position of frustration and emotion and not thinking clearly. Having terrorists operating at the Iraqi level in this country would most likely destroy life as you know it.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pm#95
July 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmWell said Duke.
Having terrorists operating at the Iraqi level in this country would most likely destroy life as you know it.
Comment by Duke — July 20, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
No, but it would be healthy for the U.S. as a whole. Perhaps if people here had a clue what war was like for people who have to live with them, we wouldn’t be so quick to start pointless ones.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmDuke,
I think you have too much faith in this administration, and are blindly guessing that there is a plan in place. IED’s have been around since just after Shock & Awe, and we haven’t figured out how to deal with them yet?
I have no doubt there’s a plan. There has been a plan and the plan(s) haven’t worked. These clowns just want to stretch it out for another year and a half until Bush can leave without admitting fault.
In the meantime, we are squandering lives and money for Bush’s War. And it is his War, have no doubt about that.
If we had stayed after AQ in Afghanistan and done the right job, we would have several thousand soldiers alive and tens of thousand would still have whole bodies and minds. But Bush wanted to go to Iraq, his War, for who the f*ck knows what reason.
I do have a lot of frustration and emotion. I hate that miserable pathetic coward more than any person ever for what he has done to my country and would love to see him suffer in jail for his crimes.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:21 pmThe war in Iraq is already lost. Imagine, bush took the only superpower and was defeated by deadenders and their IEDs and it only took about 4 1/2 years for him to do this.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:29 pmGWsupporter,
Still waiting for your reasons to support Bush. Beside the one that you just like the way his balls slap your chin.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pmI honestly believe Bush is doing what’s right for our counrty and that he has my and your best interest at heart. I do not believe he is dishonest or has mislead the country in any way. I don’t believe he is doing anything for personal gain or for his “cronies”. I think he’s a good leader who does not lead by polls but by what he feels is best for our national security.And as far as wiretapping US citizens and violating our constiturional rights, it’s not mine our yours he’s doing that too, it’s the people who have ties to the terrorists. Go get ‘em GW!!!
July 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pmLooks like the trolls stayed up all night to cruise the 12-year-old chat rooms. Now they’re here to spew their syphilitic spooge.
Dissent isn’t propaganda; claiming dissent creates propaganda is. Henirich Edelman sounds like a trustworthy guy — wonder what size jackboots and Sam Brown belt he wears? Like his DNA source, Dickless Cheney, this guy is a fucking facist through and through. He represents a war machine that’s chosen Orwell’s “1984″ as its roadmap. This country is on the road to ruin as long as treasonous shitbags like this are behind the steering wheel. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hails from Pulaski, Tennessee.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pmThe person who dealt with this directly last night was Keith Olbermann. If you missed his Special Comment at the beginning of Countdown last night, here it is:
July 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pmhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/19/special-comment-keith-blasts-bush-scapegoating-this-is-your-war/
Olbermann_slams_Bush_after_Hillary_blamed_0719.html
He was ON FIRE! This was one of his most powerful comments to date. Why aren’t more people stnading up and shouting out like this??
It’s possible he could be tapping my phone. You are a good German GWsupporter, it’s always the bad guys that your God Bush is going after.
How do you feel about random traffic stops to search your vehicle? I suppose you are ok with that because you have nothing to hide.
And door to door searches in the middle of the night? That’s ok too, because you aren’t harboring terrorists.
How about when they strip and cavity search your wife and daughter? Still ok? They surely don’t have anything to hide do they? DO THEY?? And when you protest that they seem to be enjoying it a little too much, guess what? You are an enemy combatant and get thrown in jail.
It’s a slippery slope when you start throwing civil liberties out the door, and I am amazed at the Bush lovers who support it.
I would bet $100 that youa re a good Christian, GWsupporter. That is the last bastion of believers who support the evil f*ck. They are predisposed to believing fantasies, and to yielding their unquestioning faith to a father figure who tells them that He is right.
Think for yourself little puppet.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:14 pmWhat Duke and GWsupporter are actually saying in their posts here is that there is some level of intelligence and planning AND execution going on that we don’t know about. And that we just have to trust this regime to get it right.
I have to ask then, why haven’t they gotten anything right yet and why do over 75% of this country disagree and want a change? I am a fairly intelligent, grad school educated individual who reads, studies issues and have worked inside and outside this government. I am also a wounded combat vet of Vietnam and I travel a lot outside of this country and find it refreshing to get opinions from others that see us with a different eye then we do. They just can’t understand how we have let our country get away from all the things we stand for and why we don’t take it back.
Getting our country back should be the FIRST thing we do… then get our troops home in a managed way to prepare for the real battles to come, not the false one in Iraq.
Right now, if I was in another country and some US troops invaded me to “give me the gift of democracy”, I would say thanks for the offer but I have seen what it has done to your country, so GO F@CK YOURSELF!!!!
July 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pmupside00,
You are right, it is faith that keeps the Bush supporters where they are. But at some point, given all of the proof that they are wrong in placing their faith in these guys, that they are in fact, being lied to, they will give up their stubborn (sorry, resolved) postions and see the real world.
And it is happening, slowly but surely. It may appear that there are more GWsupporters than there are because they are so vocal, but the polls are consistently sliding down. Some of these die-hards are getting the message.
BTW, I appreciate your posts. You are articulate without stooping to the vitriol.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:36 pmNANLICHI….I might be a Christian but I’m certainly no saint. I do believe that if people l;ike you were in charge around WWII, we’d all be speaking German now and there would be no open forum to have this type of discussion. I’ll have a beer in your honor tonight and say a prayer for you too. Let’s see if you can opine without the perfunctory vitriol that you are so appreciative of.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:49 pmOkay, we’re getting somewhere with the communication. Don’t all have to agree, but the dialogue is opening up some good ideas. Upside is correct. The American people have lost their country to politicians and the politicians could give a tinker’s damn about how the country turns out. As long as they get their free jet rides, vacations, trips to the Super Bowl, cash under the table, or can sell their crappy life story for $11 and $12 million respectively.
Get our country back. How? Vote the scum out of office!! Next, how to keep from getting into the VN, Somalia, Haiti, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, & other firefights? Quit trying to be the world’s police force. How arrogant to we Americans look as we invade another country to take down their leader because we don’t like what he stands for or does? What if someone invaded us because they didn’t like Carter, Bush, Clinton, or JFK? We crap a mess of flying squirrels!! We can no longer afford to police the world. We can no longer afford to give away billions of taxpayer dollars to countries where the people don’t even like us. We have infrastructure problems here at home. We have homeless to house. Sick to heal. Hungry to feed. And this is all within our own country!!
Whether H.C. is correct or not is a moot point! She has proven herself as a self serving, narcissist ego maniac. Republicans are no better.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:08 pmGWsupporter,
You may have mistaken me for a pacifist, and I most certainly not. I was totally supportive of going after AQ in Afghanistan. Chase them down and skin them would have been fine with me. I have read several books about our detour to Iraq and where you and I disagree is to what extent were we lied to and manipulated to justify what I see as Bush’s private vendetta against Sadam.
I would have been supportive of going after the Germans.
Have two beers and hold the prayer. I will have a glass of wine with my trout and chanterelles and hold the vitriol.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:14 pmNanlichi….It’ll be more like several beers and I’ll say that prayer anyway. They’re free and they sure can’t hurt. I do not believe Bush lied or mislead nor manipulated us in any way. Intelligence was perhaps not as accurate as we all would have liked but everyone, including Clinton and the dem’s all agreed with the intelligence at the time. I’ll bet if you ask the parents of the young girls that were dragged out of the schools by Sadam’s son’s and brought back to their palaces and raped, ask them how thankful they are that we came and liberated their country from one of the most evil tyrannical rulers of our time. Bush is not the enemy. The enemy will surely show themself on our soil again one of these days. I dread the thought but it is inevitable. And if everyone shouting out today about the abuses of power had their way then surely the attacks will happen sooner and with frequency and ferocity. The american people seem pretty ignorant to this inevitable fact. They’ll wake up as soon as it’s happened unfortunately. I say go get the bad guys on their home turf and don’t wait till they get here. Everyone seems to think that was is easy and no one loses their life. Its ugly and sad. War sucks but freedom is worth it. IMHO. Ok, maybe that’ll be several martinis instead. Still gonna pray for you though
July 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pmDUke,
I agree with you on much of thsat last post, including your assessment of HC and the majority of the candidates from both sides running for the Emperor’s seat in 08. But the real issues are embedded much deeper than that; we have congressmen, senators, generals, intelligence officers, attorney generals, etc who are also corrupt and/or blinded by power and greed.
I think that we should just take half the members of congress from a random sampling of the average people on the street and put them in office with a crash course in US Constitutional law for Dummies and they would do better than waht we have nbow.
It takes no rocket scientist to do what they do, just hard work, honesty and wanting to do what’s right for the country and their constituants…. not for their own pockets and special interests.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:31 pmGWsupporter -
I do not believe Bush lied or mislead nor manipulated us in any way. Intelligence was perhaps not as accurate as we all would have liked but everyone, including Clinton and the dem’s all agreed with the intelligence at the time. I’ll bet if you ask the parents of the young girls that were dragged out of the schools by Sadam’s son’s and brought back to their palaces and raped, ask them how thankful they are that we came and liberated their country from one of the most evil tyrannical rulers of our time.
Here is where you and I part ways: I think there was mistakes in the intelligence but also that it was manipulated and misused to further the reason to attack Iraq. (See C. Powell’s and G, Tenet’s recent statements.)
And your other comment about the raping, etc. does two things; one says that you now have a different reason for going into Iraq then we first used, and that it is justified because he was one of the most evil men in power. If you REALLY believe that last part, why did we not invade a half dozen countries in Africa , other MEast countries or parts of Eastern Europe insted?
That is where the blind support of Bush gets you wrapped around the axle. You will accept whatever excuse they give, or so it seems.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pmNanlichi –
Thank you for your insight here and I haven’t had this kind of discussion on TP in months, I can’t believe how nice it is to have the trolls somewhere else and be able to have real dialogue again!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:44 pmGWsupporter,
We will have to agree to disagree on what Bush knew and his motives for Iraq. And I agree with going after the enemy wherever you find them.
My point is that our enemies weren’t in Iraq. Sadam was an evil madman, but there were and are lots of them around. I have a horrible picture of an Iraqi dad holding the mangled body of his daughter after a bomb hit the house, and I can’t help but think that if that were me, I would be the first one to volunteer to carry that heavy suitcase to New York. We are creating enemies where we didn’t have any.
What a strong message we would have sent to the entire world, and especially the Muslim world, if we had pursued Osama and AQ in Afghanistan and totally and ruthlessly destroyed them to a man.
Instead, we played right into his hands and are breeding terrorists in a country he was not welcome in.
My kids and grandkids are much more vulnerable to dying from a terrorist attack because of Bush’s ego.
Anyway, thanks for the martinis and have a good weekend.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:09 pmGood post Nanlichi,
We see it the same way, it seems.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pmupside00,
I sent a long reply to your post at #112, but it didn’t get through for some reason. Clean it was too. Nothing new, just a discussion on how do we turn loose of that tiger’s tail now we have it?
No good options at this point. I just hate to see us sacrifice soldiers to delay the inevitable until the Democrats are in office so the Repugs can deny losing Bush’s War.
I am off for a weekend of trout fishing and mushroom hunting with my kids. You have a good weekend and thanks for your posts.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:55 pmwell, I’ll be dipped. It did get through. I look like Mr. P. talking to himself.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pmWho decides who the most evil men of the world are? ANd if its the ‘world community’ shouldn’t W be worried? Really.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:55 pmTraitorous whiny democrats are the only problem. GWBush is the GREATEST president this country has ever forwarded. Only the self absorbed self righteous cannot see this. History WILL show this to be TRUE. History will show you as fools not Bush. Only then will you whiney sore pussy armchair generals and diplomats see how misguided you were and are.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:59 pmI think that there is a very good chance that if Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama become the next president everything that the bush administration has accomplished will be expunged, deleted, rejected, overwritten or destroyed. His legacy is only fit as the residue in septic pipes and only his sycophants use it in their swill. The bush administration will be noted for its incompetence, corruption, cronyism, arrogance and faux self-righteousness, but most of all for its constant and incessant falsehoods.
July 21st, 2007 at 1:31 pmCan somebody say something true-that our enemies find defeat-talk reassuring-without somebody else taking offense? Edelman called Clinton’s plan foolish, not unpatriotic.
July 26th, 2007 at 3:29 am