Bush’s New Interrogation Order Contains Loophole: ‘Does Not Create Any Right Enforceable At Law’
Bush’s New Interrogation Order Contains Loophole: ‘Does Not Create Any Right Enforceable At Law’
In October 2006, Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which provided for the continuation of so-called CIA “black sites” for interrogating terrorism suspects and allowed evidence obtained through torture to be used against them. In its lengthy series on the Vice President, the Washington Post reported that the bill gave Cheney everything he wanted:
For all the apparent setbacks, close observers said, Cheney has preserved his top-priority tools in the “war on terror.” After a private meeting with Cheney, one of them said, Bush decided not to promise that there would be no more black sites — and seven months later, the White House acknowledged that secret detention had resumed.
The Military Commissions Act, passed by strong majorities of the Senate and House on Sept. 28 and 29, 2006, gave “the office of the vice president almost everything it wanted,” said [John] Yoo, who maintained his contact with [David] Addington after returning to a tenured position at Berkeley.
Today, the AP reports that President Bush has issued a new executive order “prohibiting cruel and inhuman treatment, humiliation or denigration of prisoners’ religious beliefs.” The order seems to be an effort to bring the administration’s interrogation regime closer to the requirements stipulated in the Geneva Convention.
The new order is intended to apply to CIA interrogators. “The White House declined to say whether the CIA currently has a detention and interrogation program, but said if it did, it must adhere to the guidelines outlined in the executive order.”
The new order does not appear to shut down the “black sites.” Moreover, the text of the executive order suggests that any CIA personnel or others who engage in violations of the new regime will not be subject to any repercussions.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Subject to subsection (b) of this section, this order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity, against the United States, its departments, agencies, or other entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.
(b) Nothing in this order shall be construed to prevent or limit reliance upon this order in a civil, criminal, or administrative proceeding, or otherwise, by the Central Intelligence Agency or by any individual acting on behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency in connection with the program addressed in this order.
The Post reported that exempting “CIA case officers and other government employees from prosecution for past war crimes or torture” was a “technical provision [that] held great importance to Cheney and his allies.” So while the administration is saying that it will not torture, it appears to be turning a blind eye in the event that it happens.
UPDATE: Marty Lederman provides an interpretation: “[I]f a form of violence is not already prohibited by federal criminal law, and is not ‘comparable’ to the forms of violence prohibited by the War Crimes Act, the CIA is not prohibited from using it.”
UPDATE II: The Center for Constitutional Rights expresses concern over the legal loophole. Via Raw Story:
The Center for Constitutional Rights offered an additional warning about the text of the President’s order.
“In the past, the Bush administration has taken the position that even if some legal restrictions on interrogation methods applied, they were unenforceable in court,” the group’s press release said. “According to CCR attorneys, that problem exists with today’s Executive Order, as the last section states it does not create any rights or benefits that are enforceable in court — except for CIA officers defending themselves from charges of abuse.”
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Awesome pic of Cheney by the way, looks like he is about to tear into his usual dinner of puppy blood.
As for Bush ignoring the law is what presidenting is all about.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:47 pmHeh.
If recourse is against the law, only outlaws will have recourse.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pm#1: Yeah, along with my good buddy, Michael Vick.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pmFor a minute there, I actually thought that GDumbya had prohibited torture in the course of interrogations. That made sense to me. After all, the closer he gets to being interrogated himself, the more of a concern it becomes for him.
Guess he really still hasn’t thought that through completely . . . but why should he start thinking things through at this late date in his presi-duncy?
July 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pmThese guys seem to be hellbent on making violent revolution the only means available to deal with their criminality.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pmBarbaric. We have been the enemy of the world….great to be an American. Sad so very sad.
IGNORE THE TROLLS – Mr. President, CT_V1, Eck etc. are destroying this site, do not respond to them, do not let them do a repeat of yesterday.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:52 pmThey should be banned from TP.
Isn’t there any way to shut these guys down?? They are not even bothering to pretend they are going to play by the rules any more..
They are a CLEAR and PRESENT DANGER to this nation, the Constitution, and our very democracy!!! This is quickly becoming a nation that is any longer founded on the rule of law. There is no longer any separation of powers.. What is the matter with you guys in DC??
CONGRESS WAKE UP!!! DO SOMETHING!! NOW!!!!!
July 20th, 2007 at 3:52 pmLet the record show that the detainee lunged repeatedly into the interrogator’s fist and then proceeded roll ribs-first into the interrogator’s boot at a high rate of speed. Next!
July 20th, 2007 at 3:53 pmCNN and MSNBC managed to miss this juicy little detail. Add “lazy” to the already obvious “intimidated” in terms of the MSM.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pm…and Harry Potter is wall-to-wall on the MSM news
July 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pmI hope they have the new Harry Potter in my jail cell at Gitmo.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:57 pmI hope they have the new Harry Potter in my jail cell at Gitmo.
Comment by Egreggious
Me too! ;-)
July 20th, 2007 at 3:58 pm#9– Do you really believe “lazy” and “intimidated” at this point? “Complicit” is the word I’d choose based on the last six years.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pmThis seems like good policy to me. Are you folks simply using assumptions again to polarize America? Having a “Black Site” does not mean torture, it simply is a secret place to hold people that want to harm America’s children. Seems like a good idea to keep these people away from our children since they want to kill them and all.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pmMore concern for the rights of those poor jihadists.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:00 pm#11–They will have it, but they will tear the pages out and flush them down the toilet before you get to find out what happens.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:01 pmThey know that if they come up with some platitudes to say that make it seem like they’re doing something above board, then behind the scenes they can keep on keeping on. Completely disingenuous.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pmIMPEACH BUSH CHENEY. How mush more will Congress tolerate their lawless behavior? Pelosi must put Impeachment back on the table. Republicans must uphold their oath to defend the Constitution. NOW.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pmIt’s all over the place, but check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SUKWFtlDI
The Toy Emperor gets ripped a new one. And rightfully so.
Never has this country fallen from grace, reversed it’s sense of morals, or turned from ethics so d*mned quickly as it has under this ReichWingNut regime.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pmLet me see if I understand this: “prohibiting cruel and inhuman treatment, humiliation or denigration of prisoners’ religious beliefs.â€
“But, don’t worry we won’t punish you if you’re caught doing it.”
This country has lost all moral authority. We need not worry about attacks on the U.S.; we need to worry about our own government being the enemy of Americans. I respect my country; not it’s government.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:05 pmWelcome to the traitorous oil-nazi form of government. Of, by and for the Bush-Cheney war criminals.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:05 pmSounds like it’s not worth the paper it was written on.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:07 pmWhen you take away the rights of others, you open the door for your own rights to be taken away. Are you ready?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:07 pmThose poor misunderstood Islamists.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:07 pmPity for the CIA that the president’s action does not immunize his military or CIA from criminal liability. His action amounts to an exercise of prosecutorial discretion, a temporary, non-bankable promise that this president’s Justice Dept will not take action. It need not bind Mr. Bush’s or Mr. Gonzales’ successors, which everyone likely to be directly affected by this well understands. Mr. Bush’s EO is, therefore, an indirect reminder that document and computer hard drive and server destruction procedures should proceed with all deliberate speed.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:08 pmWe need a caption for that picture of Cheney…
July 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pmFunny, I don’t see anything in this order that says it only applies to Islamists.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pmThey have no rights. They are foreign fighters of a murdering cult. You make fun of their freaking cult if that is what it takes to keep another skyscraper from being destroyed.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pmEven without the loophole, Pres Bush hasn’t shown much inclination to follow any rules -even his own.
And when caught, there is always the very likely possibility that he will invoke his “Executive Privilege” to thwart any investigation into the wrongdoings and shield the transgressor(s) from the reach of the law.
Such are the times we live in: “Here plebs, here is more bread and circus for all of you”
July 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pm#15…my concern lies not with jihadists, but in the suspension of rights.
When and if “they” should ever come for you, who will be concerned about “your” rights? Who will save you?
The suspension of rights affects the innocent as well as the guilty.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:10 pmThese murdering bastards are lucky they weren’t around in 1942.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:11 pm“You make fun of their freaking cult if that is what it takes to keep another skyscraper from being destroyed.”
Bill O’Reilly, check out our site! We have hateful things here too!
Quote of the Day, hands down! :D
July 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pmHaving a “Black Site†does not mean torture, it simply is a secret place to hold people (sic)
Comment by Roger_Roger — July 20, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Secret prisons, and black sites are tools of dictatorships, and not democracy. If they are indeed intent upon harming America, and Americans then let us try and convict them. We can do this, without losing out soul.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pmSo what we have here is a warm and fuzzy document with no teeth. And Cheney will stay on the “dark side”.
This is just more spinspeak — “we are embarking on a new way by continuing to do things the same ‘new way’ we have been doing things for some time now”.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:13 pmSecret prisons, and black sites are tools of dictatorships, and not democracy. If they are indeed intent upon harming America, and Americans then let us try and convict them. We can do this, without losing out soul.
Comment by Krazny — July 20, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Amen!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:14 pm#27 We need a caption for that picture of Cheney…
Comment by missmolly
Caption should read, “And I say, screw the American people.” Or, “My briefs are too damn tight!”
July 20th, 2007 at 4:16 pmTrial? You talk to them get as much information as you can and you execute them.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:16 pmwhat about contractors.
be sure to read the vanity fair article on how bush and cheney made torture u.s. doctrine — and that the two most responsible for developing the torture techniques are mormons. no wonder the mittster wants to double the size of gitmo. it’s a jobs program for his cronies..
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/07/torture200707?printable=true¤tPage=all
As Zubaydah clammed up, Mitchell seemed to conclude that Zubaydah would talk only when he had been reduced to complete helplessness and dependence. With that goal in mind, the C.I.A. team began building a coffin in which they planned to bury the detainee alive.
A furor erupted over the legality of this move, which does not appear to have been carried out. (Every human-rights treaty and American law governing the treatment of prisoners prohibits death threats and simulated killings.) But the C.I.A. had a ready rejoinder: the methods had already been approved by White House lawyers.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pmWhy am I not surprised he left himself a loophole?
At first I just guessed he follwed up w/ a signing statement exempting himself from his own proclamation. This is getting weirder and weirder.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pmTrial? You talk to them get as much information as you can and you execute them.
Comment by Unvarnished Truth — July 20, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
I mean, they’re wearing towels on their heads! What more proof do you need of their guilt?
July 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pm36.
Just the very fact that you feel it necessary to refer to an entire ethnic group as “towel heads” is enough for me to write off any point that you may attempt to be making.
You can follow GDumbya right down the rat hole — and you are probably stupid enough to do just that. You deserve everything that will befall you, pantload. Just don’t use me or my country for your sick, jingoistic, ignorant ends.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pmThat would be a blind black eye which is what Dubya knows he will be receiving for breaking the geneva conventions when he is tried at the international court, the hague.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pmBut the C.I.A. had a ready rejoinder: the methods had already been approved by White House lawyers.
Comment by linda
Then I guess should the day ever come and we need to get vital information out of these guys, they’ll understand. It’s a national security issue, after all!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pmFreedom, ain’t easy. Facism IS.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pmMy last post was intended for 37 — the unvarnished idiot.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pmLet’s keep the black sites open to receive dumb and dumber when they leave office so they can have a legitimate visit, too.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pmIn this photo it’s clear that cheney has fallen victim to mad cow disease. Either that or mad dog disease. he’s rabid.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:20 pmTom- that was #37
July 20th, 2007 at 4:20 pmTom- sorry, just saw you caught it.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmDarth hasn’t fallen victim to mad cow disease — he’s the carrier.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmRe. comment #1: if it ain’t the dogs of war (Cheney) it’s the war of dogs (Vick).
Sorry, couldn’t help that one.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pma little something from Pink Floyd…
Dogs of War
Dogs of war and men of hate
With no cause, we don’t discriminate
Discovery is to be disowned
Our currency is flesh and bone
Hell opened up and put on sale
Gather ’round and haggle
For hard cash, we will lie and deceive
Even our masters don’t know the web we weave
One world, it’s a battleground
One world, and we will smash it down
One world … One world
Invisible transfers, long distance calls,
Hollow laughter in marble halls
Steps have been taken, a silent uproar
Has unleashed the dogs of war
You can’t stop what has begun
Signed, sealed, they deliver oblivion
We all have a dark side, to say the least
And dealing in death is the nature of the beast
One world, it’s a battleground
One world, and we will smash it down
One world … One world
The dogs of war don’t negotiate
The dogs of war won’t capitulate,
They will take and you will give,
And you must die so that they may live
You can knock at any door,
But wherever you go, you know they’ve been there before
Well winners can lose and things can get strained
But whatever you change, you know the dogs remain.
One world, it’s a battleground
July 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pmOne world, and we will smash it down
One world … One world
Oh those silly trolls and their Stupid Pills. Their logic is well…not. They are shinning examples of everything that is wrong in this country. Just read the total crap that Unvarnished Lies posts, this is the enemy folks, this is what we should be fighting against. The terrorist within.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:50 pmOh, and I want the real terrorist, not just everyone with a “Towel” on their head to be caught, too.
When we use those same techniques on Bush and Cheney then that would be alright too, I guess.
caption:(in Frank Gorshen’s voice)
This studded leather thong is Kiiilllling Meee.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:55 pmAwww, shame. Better take a leak on the KKKoran real fast.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:11 pmThe Post reported that exempting “CIA case officers and other government employees from prosecution for past war crimes or torture†was a “technical provision [that] held great importance to Cheney and his allies.†So while the administration is saying that it will not torture, it appears to be turning a blind eye in the event that it happens.
gratuitous self-referential post:
http://tofubo.blogspot.com/2006/10/republic-is-dead-long-live-republic.html
July 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pmTrial? You talk to them get as much information as you can and you execute them.
Comment by Unvarnished Truth
My God, man! How can you talk about Harriet Meyers, Joshua Bolton, and Alberto like that? Are you a monster?
We should just torture them until they’re wimpering, broken wrecks, shorn of their last tattered shreds of human decency. Oh, too late.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pmThe last time the US and allies faced an existential threat (an actual, real, threat, not the paper tigers the Bush administration is fighting), there was no public advocacy for secret prisons, torture, legal loopholes, etc. that would shield officials from the law.
I am talking, of course, of WWII.
But then, maybe back then the people in charge felt they were on the right side of the issues and didn’t mind a little oversight and accountability. Or as the Bush apologists would put it: “If you are doing nothing wrong, why are you afraid of a little oversight?”
July 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pmThis studded leather thong is Kiiilllling Meee.
Comment by Sue
Especially since he always wears them w/ the studs on the inside.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:19 pmAwww, shame. Better take a leak on the KKKoran real fast.
Comment by m12
Careful, m12, don’t p*ss on your own fo… oops, too late!
July 20th, 2007 at 5:20 pmOh those silly trolls and their Stupid Pills.
Comment by Buch Fush
Those are not “pills”, those are “suppositories”, and judging from the effectiveness of the dosage, they must be pretty durn big ones at that.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:22 pmThe torture threads always bring out the “best of the worst” in our sick f*ck bloodthirsty piss-soaked trolls.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pmTroll: “You make fun of their freaking cult if that is what it takes to keep another skyscraper from being destroyed.”
We need the same thing today that we needed in the months leading up to the 9-11 attack – competent people running government as opposed to clueless ideologues. Pissing on a Koran doesn’t do anything to fight terrorism. It simply spreads more hate. But, I guess spreading hate is what the Bush cult-of-death is about, right Troll?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:38 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 20, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
Oooh, someone just opened their 5th grade insult pocket manual!
July 20th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThis is my favorite part: “The order seems to be an effort to bring the administration’s interrogation regime closer to the…Geneva Convention.”
Even maniacs buckle under pressure.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:28 pmOooh, someone just opened their 5th grade insult pocket manual!
Comment by m12
I take ‘em down to level you’ll understand. “Piss on the KKKoran”? What’s that, 6th grade humor?
BTW, I was trying to warn you, but seeing as you leave wet footprints wherever you go, I was, alas, too late.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:58 pmPissing on a Koran doesn’t do anything to fight terrorism. It simply spreads more hate. But, I guess spreading hate is what the Bush cult-of-death is about, right Troll?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Good question, Col. We’re waiting for a snappy reply, m12. Tap… tap… tap… hmmm, not here… must have gone to put on dry socks and shoes.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:59 pmEvery picture I see of Dickless Cheney, he looks like a pitbull taking a shit. Even when the guy smiles, he looks like he’s trying to pass the collie he just digested whole and raw. Does this look like the face of Democracy?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:03 pmCaption:
“Hey Butthead – the guy on the TV said ‘Bush’. Heh. Heh. Heheheh.”
“Shutup, Beavis.”
“No. I’m Vice President. Vice President Dick Cornholio. Heheheheh.”
July 20th, 2007 at 8:29 pmCNN and MSNBC managed to miss this juicy little detail. Add “lazy†to the already obvious “intimidated†in terms of the MSM.
Comment by bogtrotters — July 20, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Olbermann was too busy at a Harry Potter party to report on it. But, by golly, at least he wasn’t reporting on bears killing kids in state parks! ;)
July 20th, 2007 at 9:26 pmThe Post reported that exempting “CIA case officers and other government employees from prosecution for past war crimes or torture†was a “technical provision [that] held great importance to Cheney and his allies.â€
Yeah. As it has done for every VP, POTUS and the rest of their administrations since the first.
Got anything else in the obvious basket there ? Maybe Cheney’s not big on earthquakes ?
So while the administration is saying that it will not torture, it appears to be turning a blind eye in the event that it happens.
Yeah but they have to. I mean, look at how much damage all those war crimes prosecutions did to every prior administration in the 20th century, under all of which war crimes were permitted.
Oh wait, that never happened.
So there’s an executive order prohibiting torture of detainees which may not be binding.
How would you rate that in terms of grievous orders compared to, say, declaring all refugees fleeing the battlefield as threats to be killed on sight as a precaution and then that order being carried out ?
Sort of neck and neck you think ?
Because one of these could have resulted in war crimes prosecution and didn’t.
Pull your fkn head out of your arse.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:36 pmThere’s a reason when it comes to issuing executive orders prohibiting CIA actions that Bush hasn’t issued one about assassinating foreign leaders.
That’s because it already existed, as he wasn’t the first President to seek such a prohibition.
Unlike this one prohibiting torture. Might be a clue there. Or in the fact that the CIA rendition program predated Bush. Or the fact that any thorough examination of CIA involvement in torture programs goes back to before the CIA was even called that. FFS already. Heard about that whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki business yet have you ?
If we have to become like them in order to fight them, then why even bother? Anyone who thinks America’s recognition and defense of inalienable rights in our Constitution and even our entire cultural heritage is weak, outdated or ineffective, should just MOVE to some other country with a security-oriented totalitarian regime! I mean, they are a dime a dozen on this planet.
July 21st, 2007 at 4:54 pmI’d rather be a rebel against Islamo-fascists on this land than a secret prisoner of Neocon-fascists. At least the Islamo-fascists don’t pretend to love freedom or uphold the Constitution. They’re less insulting to the average American’s intelligence!
Executive orders which prohibit enforcement of the law are not lawful.
This is not permissible, prevents the Statute — something which the EO cannot trump — from being enforced, which is illegal:
July 21st, 2007 at 5:35 pm
End Italics
July 21st, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhat’s amazing, is they’re doing this dedspite losing the 2006 election: Passing illegal EOs. Congress can cut teh funding for thesee programs, or all staff using money putting this illegal EO into effect.
July 21st, 2007 at 5:36 pm