Pres. Clinton: Edelman Is An ‘Ideological Holdover’ From Cheney’s Inner Circle
Pres. Clinton: Edelman Is An ‘Ideological Holdover’ From Cheney’s Inner Circle
Yesterday, former President Bill Clinton sharply criticized Under Secretary of Defense Eric Edelman, who recently rebuffed Sen. Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) request for Pentagon briefings to Congress on the administration’s redeployment plans. Edelman wrote, “Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda. ABC News reports:
Clinton said Undersecretary Eric Edelman was “wrong” to send a letter to his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., criticizing her request for a briefing from Pentagon officials about military plans for a future withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. […]
In an interview with ABC’s Kate Snow in Lusaka, Zambia, Bill Clinton called Edelman “one of the more ideological holdovers” in the Defense Department.
“I think it’s wrong to politicize national security,” he said.
Edelman has close ties to Vice President Cheney and several other administration hardliners. He served under Cheney, then Secretary of Defense, in the first Bush administration. At that time, Cheney set up a “shop” to “think about American foreign policy after the Cold War, at the grand strategic level.” The project also included Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby. [New Yorker, 4/1/02]
From 2001-2003, Edelman served as a national security adviser to Cheney. In 2003, he was named as U.S. ambassador to Turkey, attempting to convince Turkey to cooperate with the Bush administration’s plans to invade Iraq. Turkish columnist Ibrahim Karagul noted, “Edelman is probably the least-liked and trusted American ambassador in Turkish history.”
Bush recess appointed Edelman on on Aug. 9, 2005, replacing Douglas Feith.
UPDATE: Marcy Wheeler notes that Edelman came up with the idea of leaking information to the press as a way to rebut Joseph Wilson. Juan Cole recounts Edelman’s long neoconservative record.
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100 Responses to “Pres. Clinton: Edelman Is An ‘Ideological Holdover’ From Cheney’s Inner Circle”
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Edelman tore Hillary a new one.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:36 amWhile I may agree with Pres. Clinton’s perspective, I do not believe it would be wise, or in his wife’s best interest, for him to make a habit of defending Senator Clinton.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 amThe economy under Bush is way better than under Clinton.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:44 amSo, do we have this incompetent partisan to blame for the current situation in northern Iraq? The Turkish government is about to send troops into the Kurdish areas, to stop seperatists from terrorizing areas in Turkey, threatening to upset the precarious balance of the al Maliki regime.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:49 amBill Clinton bombed Iraq to distract from Monica Lewinsky.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:53 amThe Turkish government is about to send troops into the Kurdish areas, to stop seperatists from terrorizing areas in Turkey, threatening to upset the precarious balance of the al Maliki regime.
Comment by barfly — July 22, 2007 @ 12:49 am
This has already happened.
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:55 amhttp://www.breitbart.com/ article.php?id=D8PJDM780&show_article=1
#
Bill Clinton bombed Iraq to distract from Monica Lewinsky.
Comment by Billy — July 22, 2007 @ 12:53 am
#
So what is Bush trying to distract us from?
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 amI’m not sure it’s correct to characterize Edelman as an “ideological holdover” when almost everybody under Cheney’s sphere of influence is still in their present jobs. They must all be holdovers.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:11 ambtw, could someone tell Billy his mommy wants him to get to bed this minute!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:11 amOf course he did, Edelman basically told Hill-dawg to go fuk herself!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 amBilly,
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:24 amSeems like you forgot to take your meds. You were told that not taking your meds would violate a court order and would land you back in the mental ward.
So what is Bush trying to distract us from?
Comment by Chris L — July 22, 2007 @ 12:56 am
robbing from the treasury, for one…
saying g’nite…
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 amat the risk of sounding redundant, well, NeoCONS ARE SCUM.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:13 amI have my own tricycle and I ride it a lot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:28 amHow many adults go by the name of “Billy”?
Do your parents know you’re posting on an adult blog, Billy?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:36 amHow many adults go by the name of “Billy�
Billy Dee Williams.
Okay, that’s only one. But I doubt our “Billy” is sitting at his computer enjoying a refeshing Colt .45 Malt Liquor.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:44 amI heard that Bush had brain surgery….somthing about polyps being removed or something. One of them was named Billy.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 amBilly = Moron
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:22 amWhat’s Bill going to do? Beat up Edelman for sending a letter to his wife?
A wife he rarely sees.
When was the last time they had a nookie session?
It’s all “Mr. Man” standing up to the undersecretary for his wife. But if she wants to be President, shouldn’t she stand up for herself?
When the Radical Islams are marching in the streets in February 2009 after Hillary is President, with their “Death to Hillary! Death to the US!” signs, is Bill going to call for more troops?
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:06 ambilly=dumbf@ck. Clinton did it. What a piss poor attempt at defending the actions of Cheney and his neocon scumbag circle.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:07 amWhen the Radical Islams are marching in the streets in February 2009 after Hillary is President, with their “Death to Hillary! Death to the US!†signs, is Bill going to call for more troops?
Comment by muckdog — July 22, 2007 @ 4:06 am
This is very possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Radical Islams marching in the streets. Death to Hillary. Put down the crack pipe and join reality, trying using that tiny, spongy thing between your ears.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:13 amWhen the Radical Islams are marching in the streets…
Comment by muckdog
After 1 trillion dollars, 3700 dead Soldiers and Marines, over 25,000 wounded, up to 1/2 million dead Iraqi’s, 4 million Iraqi refugees, and Iraq and our foriegn policy in chaos…..
Why would Bush leave us with such a scenario?
muckdog = dope
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:29 amWhen the Radical Islams are marching in the streets in February 2009 after Hillary is President, with their “Death to Hillary! Death to the US!†signs, is Bill going to call for more troops?
Comment by muckdog
I see a lot of Muslims around the world in the streets burning effigies of Bush and Co. screaming death to Bush and America. so what’s your point? Are you saying things will be the same?
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:32 amEdelman was recess appointed in Aug, 05. Recess appointments are for one year and he has not been reappointed. Edelman is in his job illegally.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 amUS military deaths at 3631
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:19 amEdelman-clones: muckdog (a.k.a. shmuckdog), Billy (a.k.a. Silly Billy), and Kalashnikov (a.k.a. Mr. Pee).
Edelman, and his clones, represent everything in NeoCons that disgust me.
When it comes to policy, NeoCons seem to prefer:
> property over people
> the status quo over progress
> war over peace
> rich over poor
> white (Aryan) over people of color
and
> their global conglomerate Pimps over EVERYTHING!
When it comes to political tactics, NeoCons consider every encounter with those who disagree with them to be “war” (e.g., the cultural “war”), so they take no prisoners.
When it comes to personal humanity, by and large, NeoCons strike me as priggishly smug, arrogant, selfish, unyielding to reason, lacking in compassion, power-hungry, out of touch with the majority of Americans, warmongering, and slavishly subservient and acquiescent to the current corrupt, crooked president and his president-in-charge-of-Vice, SiCKO DiCKO.
The descriptions above would seem to accurately describe Ãœber-Under Secretary Edelman and his clone/trolls in here.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 amThe basic thing is that neo-cons are not only just Israelis, but Likudniks. In heart and mind if not in nationality. But it would be interesting to know how many of them have Israeli nationality.
In any event they work for Israel’s interests and not America’s.
Remember that Likud is the party created by known fascist terrorists from before ‘48 like Begin and Shamir. By definition, a supporter of Likud is a fascist.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 am“neo-cons are not only just Israelis, but Likudniks”
Comment by bernarda — July 22, 2007 @ 5:46 am
Sorry, I can’t buy into your anti-Israel opinions.
I am not pro-Israel, any more than I am pro-Palestinian. I am looking for peace, not taking sides in a millenniums-old blood-feud between folks who are of the same stock.
From my point of view, NeoCons side with Israel for even darker, and more sinister, “reasons” than you propose in your post.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:06 amhe went from the OVP to Turkey (after the invasion) and then back to the heart of the OVP. an odd career trajectory (as fond as i am of istanbul)
———————————
Edelman is involved in traitorgate:
June 19: After New Republic reports that Cheney’s office had sent Wilson to Niger, Libby and his then-principal deputy, Eric Edelman, discuss whether to leak the details of the trip to the press to rebut the article. Libby tells Edelman “there would be complications at the CIA” from disclosing the information. (link)
———————–
This I found in a rant by Stanton:
Fascists don’t see a distinction between legitimate and semi-legitimate organizations. Front companies, informants, pundits, mafia’s, consultants, retired generals, drug dealers and junkies, arms traders, spies, assassins, associations, politicians, lobbyists, judges are all just tools to advance the national and foreign interests.
It’s this kind of madness that Sibel Edmonds and those like her are fighting against. They are trying smash the mirrors and blow away the smoke that clouds the minds of so many who refuse to acknowledge that the US is rapidly becoming a reflection of Benito Mussolini’s Fascist Italy.
[snip]
Would it be a surprise that The Policy Organization (Edelman), the Attorney General and assorted US government operatives tracking these activities would turn a blind eye to Turkey and Israel’s trade in these types of goods? No. Why? Again, if Turkey and Israel are so “damn†critical to the USA’s interests, then they can operate around the globe with impunity, protected by names like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Hastert, Scowcroft, Edelman, Bush and, once upon a time, Doug Feith.
——————
here’s a glimpse of how Turkey felt about Edelman’s tenure there (before he got promoted back into Cheney’s Heart of Darkness):
Writing in Yeni Safak ,Columnist Ibrahim Karagul commented on 17 March ,“Considering the range of his activities, his statements which violate the decorum of democracy, and his interest in Turkey’s internal affairs, Eric Edelman acts more like a colonial governor than an ambassador. Since his appointment as US ambassador to Turkey, Edelman’s actions have always caused discomfort among the public. His latest ‘suggestions’ on Sezer’s upcoming visit to Syria had the same impact.
“Edelman is probably the least-liked and trusted American ambassador in Turkish history, and his reputation is not likely to recuperate. Edelman’s actions have exceeded his diplomatic mission. His ‘interest’ in nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), the Turkish media and ethnic minorities make him go beyond his role as an ambassador. His presence here has never contributed to Turkish-American relations, and it never will. If we want to address the reasons for anti-Americanism, Edelman must be issue one. As long as Edelman stays in Turkey, the chill wind disturbing bilateral relations will last.†( Incidentally Edelman has resigned but cited personal reasons )
Chiding the pro-US writers in the Turkish media , Karagul said , “ Don’t our government and people have the ability to decide which countries we should visit? Is our foreign policy decided by Edelman and his chorus among the Turkish media? — Do we have to act in accordance with the common interests of Israel and the US? Is Turkey not an independent nation? “ . He concluded ,†The ultimate plan is to corner and control Turkey in order to use it as a hit man . The Vietnamese were terrorists, according to the US. Latin America, China, Libya and the USSR were also terrorists. And now Iran and Syria. But if they abandon their policies based on opposing the US, they will no longer be called terrorists. Instead, they will be lauded as models of democracy for the Middle East.†If Turkey follows an independent policy , “ who can guarantee that those who serve Turkey’s interests won’t be declared terrorists? –Isn’t more than half of the world already a threat for the US?â€
i’m most interested in this sentence: “His ‘interest’ in nongovernmental organizations” - i’ve been meaning to track down the journo and ask what s/he meant. Sibel talks about semi-legit organisations that are used as cover for the shenanigans - i suspect that the journo is pointing to something similar here - particularly given the quote ‘interest’.
—————-
Edelman is a true-believer in terms of invading syria.
Next month Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer will conduct his visit to Damascus, as planned. This visit was the basis for a further deterioration of U.S.-Turkish relations, following a comment by U.S. Ambassador to Turkey Eric Edelman which was interpreted as criticism of Sezer’s visit. [2] The comment aroused harsh reactions in the Turkish media, with widespread calls for his removal from Turkey. The subsequent resignation of Ambassador Edelman was reported by the Turkish media with a sense of victory. (link)
——————-
Edelman was going to retire but got plucked back into the cabal by Rumsfeld. He couldn’t wait to start beating up on China about Taiwan. (remember when John Bolton was secretly working with Taiwan?)
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2005/12/sibel-edelman.html
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:23 amLOL! Edelman and Pentagon really trolled Billary’s campaign.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:23 amFun Fact: Bill Clinton was tied with FDR as most popular President of the 20th Century.
He’ll be a great help when Hillary takes office.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:45 amEdelman served under Cheney during the administration of Bush pere. At that time he worked as part of a team headed by Paul Wolfowitz that was charged with formulating a Defense Policy Guidance that would serve as the post-Cold War framework for U.S. military strategy. Others working on the draft grand strategy were Zalmay Khalilzad and I. Lewis Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff.
Who is this man, the National Security Council Director in charge of everything from the Persian Gulf States to Southwest Asia?
Zalmay Khalilzad - Special US Envoy for Islamic Terror!
Compiled with comments by Jared Israel
[Posted 1 March 2003, revised 16 April 2003]
http://emperors-clothes.com/archive/khalilzad-facts.htm
http://www.larouchepub.com/ other/ 2004/ 3116sept_11_cmsn.html
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:47 amsorry for the redundant post above. the system ate my prior posts for a few minutes, then spit them back out - apparently.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:49 amDude, ace! Don’t you ever sleep? Or are you a collective?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:49 amWhere in American history have the names “Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby” been associated with any success or progress? Throw in a Rumsfeld and a Rove and you have failure at an historic Bush-level.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:50 am#
Dude, ace! Don’t you ever sleep? Or are you a collective?
Comment by MAYTAG Repairman — July 22, 2007 @ 6:49 am
You’ll note that there were no posts by me from 9:30 last night until 5:30 this morning. That would appear to be an 8 hour night of sleep.
Did you have a point to make about Edelman’s relationship to the writing of the Grand Strategy, his connection to the silencing of Sibel Edmonds or his connection to the forgery of the Niger documents in Italy, or are you just here to sell sleep aids?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 amRead this and look how long the overthrow of America has been in the works, and who was (and is) behind it.
http://books.google.com/ books?id=Dl5l2G8_gwkC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=khalilzad+edelman&source=web&ots=O2trmhdvWl&sig=awNW-5jyfXo3mH1YyEQ-GSF_Khg
Libby was a key player from the outset - which is why he’s a free man.
READ & LEARN
The War ON Terror is actually a War OF Terror - as proscribed by these mad men under the direction of Poppy Bush - the ACTUAL President of the United States at present.
The Defense Planning Guide is actually an OFFENSE Planning Guide.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:00 amI do not believe it would be wise, or in his wife’s best interest, for him to make a habit of defending Senator Clinton.
Comment by Chris L — July 22, 2007 @ 12:40 am
How is a hugely popular policical figure like Bill Clinton going to avoid commenting on matters concerning his wife? He will be asked…should he just say NO Comment.??
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:05 amAccording to the US State Department, the definition of TERRORISM is not confined to the physical act of killing.
Terrorism occurs when a state utilizes fear tactics against its own people to accomplish political objectives.
The mere act or announcing a falsely construed terror alert - or overplaying the significance of a plot known not to be viable - is itself terrorism.
Tom Ridge admitted that many of the Terror Alerts announced under his command were in fact phony.
Remember the run on duct tape?
That was a clear case of state sponsored terrorism by the Government of the United States under the direction of Karl Rove against the people of the United States to achieve a political objective.
Karl Rove is a Terrorist under the definition ascribed by the US State Department.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:26 amhttp://www.nytimes.com/ 2004/ 10/ 17/ magazine/ 17BUSH.html?ex=1151899200&en=079d03a2a9db7c23&ei=5070
It was during a press conference on Sept. 16, 2001, in response to a question about homeland security efforts infringing on civil rights, that Bush first used the telltale word ”crusade” in public. ”This is a new kind of — a new kind of evil,” he said. ”And we understand. And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.”
In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn’t like about Bush’s former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend — but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.
The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ”Look, I want your vote. I’m not going to debate it with you.” When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ”Look, I’m not going to debate it with you.”
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:27 amGood work, ace. You’ve filibustered this thread to death, too.
Man, you’re the best TP troll ever!
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:28 amMaytag:
It seems you were able to post with ease.
You see, here’s how the system works…it’s like a first come, first served deal, where any time you or anyone else wants to post anything, you simply hit the button below that says “Post-I agree”
I know you’d like to imply that my posting prevents others from doing so, but really that’s just a swiftboating tactic.
Do you have any actual EVIDENCE including facts and links to refute anything posted above?
No?
I didn’t think so.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:33 amAs usual, you didn’t get my point.
Your page long, off-topic screeds make it impossible to have any debate here. You see an interesting comment, but then you’ll have to scroll down a couple of pages to see the reply and so on. You don’t see how distracting that is, do you?
I have been mailing Faiz to get you banned, but unfortunately he’s just going to keep on deleting your posts instead.
But hey! There’s a new Rove article up there. Why don’t you go and filibuster it, too, before more people wake up and actually manage to start an on-topic discussion.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:36 amDebate?
Since when do you want to debate anything Mr. P?
That’s not your purpose here.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 amAce,
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 amI think MAYTAG means that your filibustering (providing facts and links related to a thread) is hindering his usual banter (idiocy and postings with no actual meaning). Filibuster away…and throw in an impeachment or two.
Ok, so you don’t mind if I start copy-pasting Ann Coulter’s equally insane screeds here? First come, first served, right?
And I’m not Mr. President.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:42 amproviding facts and links related to a thread
How the fsck is the screed #40, for instance, related to this article??
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:43 amAce,
I think MAYTAG means that your filibustering (providing facts and links related to a thread) is hindering his usual banter (idiocy and postings with no actual meaning). Filibuster away…and throw in an impeachment or two.
Comment by dlet — July 22, 2007 @ 7:39 am
It’s tactical, trust me. It’s time to fight the trolls / psyops tactics with overwhelming and abundant facts.
As you can see, they have virtually no evidence to refute anything I post.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:43 amAs you can see, they have virtually no evidence to refute anything I post.
If that interpretation feeds your narcissistic ego, then go ahead a believe in it. The truth is, however, that I’m not interested in reading - not to mention refuting - your delusions. If I want to read something kooky, I’ll go to a site like 911truth.org or http://www.mt.net/~watcher/conspir.html and laugh myself silly.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:46 amYou claimed you were interested in debate.
You begin.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 amEdelman was recess appointed in Aug, 05. Recess appointments are for one year and he has not been reappointed. Edelman is in his job illegally.
Comment by ecoast — July 22, 2007 @ 4:52 am
I questioned this, too, so I did a little research last night. Turns out that there is enough ambiguity in the recess appointmens clause of the constitution that such appointees can actually stay for upwards of two years. It says they’ll keep their jobs until the end of the “next” session of Congress (two year period) plus the current one.
Here’s where I found this:
http://www.senate.gov/ reference/ resources/ pdf/ RS21308.pdf.
Or, if your Windows Vista blocks it, try this (html version):
http://64.233.169.104/ search?q=cache:MBP7E3DcRREJ:www.senate.gov/ reference/ resources/ pdf/ RS21308.pdf+%2B%22recess+appointments%22+%2B+%22term%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:53 amAce: Fire Away, patriot! Don’t let the trolls criticism affect you one iota. There are many lurkers who may not enjoy posting (many of my friends included) who cut and past your incredibly accurate information and then share it with other friends who share it with their friends and on and on.
I’ll reiterate my opinion: I’d much prefer to have page after page of legitimate, inside information about what’s really going on in this country and the links to check it out and do the research myself than to slog through vitriolic and sensless troll posts here. Ace’s information is preferred any day of the week by intelligent, inquiring minds.
Wayne: Thanks for the senate recess docment. I tried the second link and it worked fine. Kudos to you as well!
This is a great way to start a day - chock full of crimes and misdeeds that we can actually research and find factual data on!! Thanks again to both of you. Good work.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:05 amThis man is a shining example of why we need a constitutional amendment to take away the power of the president to make “recess appointments” (as, indeed, many of Bush’s RA’s are). As the article I linked to earlier noted, in the early days of the union, COngress wasn;t in session for months at a time (they were farmers and businessmen otherwise; i.e., they had “lives”), so there needed to be a mechanism to keep government functioning during their long absences. That is no longer the case and the constitution should be modifed to reflect this.
But this and other appointments were done purely to circumvent the Senate who, if they had any sense at all, would never have confirmed this man (or many of the others, such as John Bolton, who was specifically given an RA because the Senate said they would reject him. That’s an example of twisting the purpose of the constitution.)
BTW, I hope no future Congress ever confirms one of these people for a government job. Anybody Bush appointed during a recess should be considered unfit and unqualified, or else why wouldn’t Bush just let them get confirmed?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 amDebate?
Since when do you want to debate anything Mr. P?
That’s not your purpose here.
Comment by ace — July 22, 2007 @ 7:39 am
————————————————————
Dude, I didn’t know you predict the future!!!
You made this comment 20min before I woke up!
Now I’m a true believe, post away!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:11 amAfter all, Truth (and information) is the nemesis of this Cabal. They are doing everything within their power to silence whistleblowers and people who have facts on them.
The adage: “The Truth shall set you free” has taken on a double meaning in this country. Obviously, it can be interpreted metaphysically as it generally is - in today’s fascist state, truth is the enemy of the neocons so, indeed, in order to reverse this cycle of fascism and return to democracy, we MUST find the Truth in order to prosecute those responsible for the crimes and move forward (back to democracy).
Ace is a premiere “truthteller” which is precisely why the trolls are afraid of him and his information. The trolls NEVER provide links to their information because they can’t. Their information is based on lies and deception.
Ace, you are one of this blog sites most valuable posters and we, who desire the truth, are appreciative of your work.
To the trolls (or should I say “troll”) out there who have nothing to say: we know that you are intimidated by Ace whose has more resourcefulness and intelligence in his pinky that all of you combined. We understand that your criticism of him is sparked by your overt lack of sophistication which is only eclipsed by your ridiculous, inarticulate rants against him. What you handily accomplish each time you attack him and post more irrelevant information is that you lower yourselves in the eyes of anyone reading these threads - while drawing attention to and elevating the prowess of Ace. Most of my friends check intermittently all day long JUST to see if Ace has posted more information that they can collect and send to everyone they know.
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! Kudos to you, Ace for bringing our level of knowledge up a degree higher with each or your posts!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:13 amComment by veritas — July 22, 2007 @ 8:05 am
I 100% agree with everything you said about ace, and I thank you for everything you said about me. :)
TP should stop deleting ace’s posts and concentrate on the racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic excrement posted by some of the trolls. They are the ones keeping good posters away, not ace. Paying attention TP?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:14 amJust to get back to the thread topic: Edelman looks like he’s right out of Hitler’s Third Reich on that photo.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:14 amComment by Mr. Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 8:11 am
I guess you have a decision to make. Discuss the issues in a civilized, intelligent way as you did last night with me, or…not.
The choice is yours. Remember what I told you about your potential. I still believe it.
Choose the forces of goodness and light. :)
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:17 amEdelman-clones: muckdog (a.k.a. shmuckdog), Billy (a.k.a. Silly Billy), and Kalashnikov (a.k.a. Mr. Pee).
Edelman, and his clones, represent everything in NeoCons that disgust me.
When it comes to policy, NeoCons seem to prefer:
> property over people
> the status quo over progress
> war over peace
> rich over poor
> white (Aryan) over people of color
and
> their global conglomerate Pimps over EVERYTHING!
When it comes to political tactics, NeoCons consider every encounter with those who disagree with them to be “war†(e.g., the cultural “warâ€), so they take no prisoners.
When it comes to personal humanity, by and large, NeoCons strike me as priggishly smug, arrogant, selfish, unyielding to reason, lacking in compassion, power-hungry, out of touch with the majority of Americans, warmongering, and slavishly subservient and acquiescent to the current corrupt, crooked president and his president-in-charge-of-Vice, SiCKO DiCKO.
The descriptions above would seem to accurately describe Ãœber-Under Secretary Edelman and his clone/trolls in here.
Comment by hterrya — July 22, 2007 @ 5:26 am
——————————————————————————
First of all, I think you are giving us trolls a little too much credit.
I, for one, am not affiliated with an political party or organization. I do find politics fascinating though.
Secondly, it was my understanding that the neoCons were mainly Jewish, so unless I’m mistaken, the above comment about the neocons having “Aryan” preferences would not be accurate.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:18 ammany thanks.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:18 amOops.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:18 amComment by veritas — July 22, 2007 @ 8:13 am
I’ve often said that Truth to the Neo-cons is like Sunlight to a Vampire.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:19 amGuess Edelman can march to gallows as a traitor along with Cheney, Rove, Armitage and Scooty, just to name a few. Are there any honest Republicans left?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:21 amWayne: Thanks :)
Frankly, when I see TP or trolls begin to tee off on anything relating to racism, xenophobia, homophobia, I exit, stage right and immediately! The last thing I ever intend to debate is someone’s bigotry, ignorance, or lack of respect for their fellow man. I’m happy to hear that you feel the same.
I don’t see or live any of these concepts (race, religion, sexual orientation) and I certainly don’t intend to have insensitive morons drag me into debate or discussion about any of it on a blog site.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 am#40
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 amace, this is from Ron Suskind, Without a Doubt, New York Times Magazine, October 17, 2004, right? Love his stuff. Good morning Wayne, ace and veritas.
Veritas:
The trolls come into liberal blogs and spew all the hate speech so that Bill Orally can quote them and paint the blogosphere with the brush of hatred.
Standard psyops
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 amG’morning leftcoast! How are you today?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 amIsn’t that the truth, ace? You’d think that if someone is actually paying these trolls, they’d select ones who have the ability to articulate intelligently though.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:26 amAce:
Israel is a country which is currently screwed up but getting its shit together. Its current government is not all that popular with its people, much like America, and, much like America, is being hit with multiple scandals.
It does spy on America, because America has a history of not honouring its side of several agreements to share information, and it does employ lobyists in America because it isn’t stupid, but it does not control America.
Were it up to Israel America would have invaded Iran, and Syria long before it invaded Iraq. Israel is being used by the neocons, the Saudi’s and just about anybody else with a negative agenda to distract you from the truth: That the bad decisions made by your government, were your government’s bad decisions to make.
If America did not support Israel, the surrounding arabic states would - on the quiet - support it. Israel is frankly a damn useful means of keeping criticism of the current government from becoming outright rebellion, because it focusses the hatred of the people elsewhere.
As you might have noticed, there is a lot of hatred in socieities which use public stoning as a sentence for adultary, or which for their fear of intellectuals, insist on evolution being kept out of their schools.
Now, I am pro-Israel as a country. I figure once the decision was made by 80% of the member states of the UN to create Israel the decision was final and nothing is going to reverse that decision. While I agree that the Lebanon war was wrong, I agree that torture is wrong, and I agree that there is no moral high ground in that war, I also feel that in the end this is about decisions having been made which should be followed through.
Once the decision to create Israel was made it was final. While it can be argued to have been wrong, to right that wrong would require repeating it by forcing the Jews out of Israel and into exile all over again. What is needed to force the peace in Israel is to stop blaming Israel for being successful and stop allowing its use as a scapegoat.
The Arabs around Israel could have stopped fighting and tried to rebuild their lives. Sure they were massively wronged, but in the end their lives weren’t over, and their habit of hugging old grudges to their chests hurt them more then it hurt those they held those grudges against.
If they would set aside their hatred and get their acts together they would own Israel today, but instead they set off bombs on school buses.
In every peace process I have seen with Israel, Israel has had to give something up. How about a new idea for peace in Israel? The Palestinians have to make the move towards peace, have to show that they want peace. How about a peace agreement where the Israelis aren’t always treat as if they don’t have a case.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:27 amHowdy leftcoast.
Appreciate all your efforts as well!
That Suskind quote is the most chilling thing I’ve ever read.
Repeat it often.
Who ever it was that said that revealed their arrogance, and their plan.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:27 amOff for some hi-test (coffee, that is!). I’ll check back later- thanks Ace, Wayne, leftcoast! Enjoyed this brief tete-a-tete….:):)
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:28 amG’morning leftcoast! How are you today?
Comment by veritas
Top o’ the morn veritas- Doing well, but sleepy. Need coffee. Have media and sound this morning at our church so need to wake up.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 amHope you and all here have a great day. Keep America informed and hope alive.
ace- that is a chilling quote. It bears repeating and often. Price of Loyalty and The One Percent Doctrine are my favorites by Suskind.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:34 amBruce:
I appreciate your thoughtful and informed approach to dialogue.
What is wrong with the borders as originally defined for the country of Israel?
Why is ERETZ Israel the goal at this point?
THIS cannot lead to peace:
On 04 September 2001 a demonstration was held in Jerusalem to support of the Idea of the State Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates. It was organised by the movement Bead Artzein (”For the Homeland”), headed by rabbi and historian Avrom Shmulevic from Hebron. According to Shmulevic, “We shall have no peace as long as the whole territory of the Land of Israel will not return under Jewish control…. A stable peace will come only then, when Israel will return to itself all its historical lands, and will thus control both the Suez and the Ormudz channel…. We must remember that Iraqi oil fields too are located on the Jewish land.”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/ military/ world/ israel/ greater-israel-maps.htm
And who sponsors the trolls use of Megaphone software to pollute these threads?
http://www.eretz.com/
Eretz MEANS border expansion and territory expansion, goals that run in direct opposition to peace.
http://www.giyus.org/partners.html
The Lebanon campaign push all the way to the river for a reason.
They need the water AND they are creating ERETZ Israel - using our treasure and blood.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:34 amMorning, leftcoast. My but you are up early today. Hell, I’m up early considering how late I was up last night actually have a civilized discussion with Mr. P (under his latest name).
You’d think that if someone is actually paying these trolls, they’d select ones who have the ability to articulate intelligently though.
Comment by veritas — July 22, 2007 @ 8:26 am
Is it possible to defend racism and bigotry “intelligently”? If they are getting paid, I would say it is not money well spent.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:45 amBruce…I also appreciated your thoughtfull post. 3 points
1. The Arabs want an issue rather than a solution to the Palestinian problem. If the Palestinians had adopted the Nelson Mandella/Martin Luther King approach, they would have had their own country decades ago.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:48 am2.Israel lost their moral highground when they stated building settlements in the occupied lands. I believe they were pushed in this direction by the Huge increase in Immigration, largely from the Soviet Union and other Communist countries by Jews after the Berlin Wall fell.
3. Israel has surpassed Britian as the number 4 exporter of weapons and security systems. They have a vested economic interest in promoting fear of terrorism and the “war on terror” ( Naomi Wolfe..in the Nation)
Ideology is one thing; competence is quite another. Wasn’t Edelman responsible for our failure to open the northern front in 2003? The 4th Division from Texas was supposed to enter Iraq through Turkey, secure the Kurdish oil fields, open a second front and help secure “victory.” The Bush Administration loaded the armor on ships and then announced that the division was on the way . . . oops Forgot to ask the Turks first. Put the Turks in an impossible position of seeming to be American lackeys. They were forced to say no. We could have used those troops, if only to guard the oil and the ammo dumps. A complete and utter clusterf#@ck. Not only do I disagree with his ideology, he is a complete incompetent as well.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:52 am3. Israel has surpassed Britian as the number 4 exporter of weapons and security systems. They have a vested economic interest in promoting fear of terrorism and the “war on terror†( Naomi Wolfe..in the Nation)
Comment by Badger — July 22, 2007 @ 8:48 am
A Country as Well as a Company
Michael Saba
Arab News
WASHINGTON, 27 December 2004 — In2003 , according to a Dec. 23 article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, Israel’s military sales abroad reached the $ 3billion mark. That figure is about 10 percent of the overall world arms trade. It puts Israel in5 th or6 th place in the list of the largest arms exporting countries. Estimates for 2004 place Israeli arms sales at about $ 4billion. Israel is a company as well as a country. Yet that company may be in trouble in light of a recent arms controversy between the United States, China and Israel.
The United States has allegedly demanded that Israel confiscate Chinese-owned Harpy assault drone aircraft that had been returned to Israel for upgrading. The Harpy drones are Israeli-made but currently the property of the Chinese. The Israelis sold these aircraft to the Chinese in the1990 s and are designed to destroy radar stations and anti-aircraft batteries. There is a dispute over whether these drones contain any American technology prohibited from export to third countries, but American sources claim that these drones could be used against American forces in Taiwan.
For more than a decade, the US has been raising concerns about Israeli weapons exports to China. In the summer of2000 , the US forced the Israelis to cancel the sale to China of a Phalcon, an airborne radar system equipped with advanced Israeli-made aeronautics loaded on a Russian-made plane. The Israelis had to return $ 350million in that aborted arms deal and between the botched Phalacon and Harpy arms deals with China, the Israelis have lost their increasing good will with China and possibly future arms sales to the People’s Republic.
Israel has utilized its sizable arms trade for decades in increasing both its own domestic arms production as well as providing significant income for the Jewish state. According to a top secret CIA report made public in1979 , “Israel’s program for accelerating its technological, scientific and military development as rapidly as possible has been enhanced by exploiting scientific exchange programs. Mossad (the Israeli intelligence service) plays a key role in this endeavor. In addition to large-scale acquisition of published scientific papers and technical journals from all over the world through overt channels, the Israelis devote a considerable portion of their covert operations to obtaining scientific and technical intelligence. This has included attempts to penetrate certain classified defense projects in the US.â€
In1983 , the US General Accounting Office, GAO, pointed out, “Israel’s technological exports are heavily dependent on foreign components. In Israel’s fastest growing industry, the electronics field, about 35 percent of the knowledge is acquired from the United States in licenses production or technology transfer. Almost every arms production includes a US input.†The GAO suggested that Israel needed to become a major exporter of high-tech products to obtain the foreign currency it needed to solve its tremendous debt problems. Unlike most other arms manufacturers, Israel exports 75 percent of the total production of its military industries. Israel’s military industry is dependent on exports for its survival.
Israel is China’s second-largest arms supplier (Russia is first). Israel ad China have only had official diplomatic relations since 1992 , but their military and arms ties go back to the early1980 s. And various current and former US officials have played significant roles in US-Israel-China relations. According to an article written by Stephen Green in the February 2004 issue of Counterpunch, Paul Wolfowitz, the current US deputy secretary of defense, was in 1990 brought into DOD as undersecretary for policy by then Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney. Two years later, in 1992 , the first Bush administration launched a broad inter-departmental investigation into the export to Israel of advanced AIM-9M air-to-air missiles that happened under Wolfowitz’ watch. Israel has already been caught selling the earlier AIM-9-L version of the missile to China in violation of a written agreement with the US on US arms re-sales.
Earlier, in the1980 s, Stephen Bryen was appointed as deputy assistant secretary of defense by his neocon associate, Richard Perle, the assistant secretary of defense for international security policy. Bryen was the founder and director of the Defense Technology and Security Administration (DTSA) which controlled US defense technology exports. Bryen, who was investigated in 1978 for espionage to Israel, was cited for having attempted to allow the export of sensitive US military exports to Israel without the permission of the US State Department which actually issued the export license at the time. Bryen is currently president of the US arm of Finmeccanica, Italy’s largest aerospace firm Finmeccanica that currently does business with China.
A close associate of Bryen’s is Michael Ledeen also a close friend of Israel. Ledeen has been in and out of the US government as both an official and a consultant. He most recently served as a consultant for the now infamous DOD Office of Special Plans (OSP) under Douglas Feith. Both Ledeen and Bryen serve or have served on a US congressional consultative body called he United States-China Economic Security Review Commission. The charter for the China Commission, as it is popularly known, states that its purpose is to….â€monitor, investigate and report to the Congress on the national security implications of the bilateral trade and economic relationship between the United States and the People’s Republic of China.†The charter also reflects an awareness of the problem of “back door†technology leaks: “The Commission shall also take into account patterns of trade and transfers through third countries to the extent practicable.â€
Ledeen and Bryen co-authored an article in the Jerusalem Post in 1992 criticizing the first Bush administration for being too tough on restricting Israel’s re-exports of American technology to China. Could we have the “fox in the chicken coop†here, by chance?
In1992 , in an article in Commentary magazine, current DOD Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith, a close colleague of Wolfowitz and a fellow neocon wrote: “It is in the interest of US and Israel to remove needless impediments to technological cooperation between them. Technologies in the hands of responsible, friendly countries facing military threats, countries like Israel, serve to deter aggression, enhance regional stability and promote peace thereby.â€
According to the Israeli press (the major sections of US media have ignored the current US-Israel-China flap until now), the present conflict has arisen because of Paul Wolfowitz and Doug Feith’s concern of Israel’s exports to China. There are even stories that Feith has asked for the resignation of Israeli Defense Ministry Director General Amos Yaron over the Harpy drone upgrade issue. All of this doesn’t seem to look good for Israel, the company. Or maybe there is much more here than meets the eye. Stay tuned.
http://www.aljazeerah.info/ Opinion%20editorials/ 2004%20opinions/ December/ 27%20o/ A%20Country%20as%20Well%20as%20a%20Company%20Michael%20Saba.htm
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 amWhat is wrong with the borders as originally defined for the country of Israel?
too narrow for the current population, the Arabs were officially the agressors in the wars in which that territory was gained, the original borders are way, way too wide for the territory involved (The country was in the shape of a crescent moon, making it very difficult to defend) and people have moved into that territory, thus forcing the issue of forced removals.
Further ERETZ is a pipe dream, Israel as a state doesn’t have the population to handle that ammount of ground for one thing (And Israel’s population is growing more slowly then the populations of its surrounding neighbours) and the population of Israel is highly irritated right now, but not to the extent that they want endless wars with everybody.
What people forget is that the same government which started the Lebanon war is currently losing support on a level which rivals that of the Republicans. The Israeli government seriously was considering a convicted sex pest to replace a fired fraudster for one of its top posts not too long ago. The Israeli people are looking for a change of direction.
As to a larger policy of border growth: What do you call Gaza?
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:03 am2.Israel lost their moral highground when they stated building settlements in the occupied lands. I believe they were pushed in this direction by the Huge increase in Immigration, largely from the Soviet Union and other Communist countries by Jews after the Berlin Wall fell.
That was perfectly justified by the concept of repairations - the Palestinians attacked, lost and thus the Israeli’s got to take the ground.
Where Israel really lost the moral high ground was when they legalised torture. It wasn’t on the same level as with America, but they did legalise torture.
Neither side has the moral high ground, so right now we have to look at the pragmatic element: Is there any way in hell Israel is just going to go away? No, so stop fighting it, get on with your lives and then maybe one day you will get Israel anyway because you will be richer then it, and can simply buy the place.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:16 amHow is a hugely popular policical figure like Bill Clinton going to avoid commenting on matters concerning his wife? He will be asked…should he just say NO Comment.??
Comment by Badger — July 22, 2007 @ 7:05 am
Badger, that’s the first thing I thought of when I read the article. If Bill responded with “No comment”, that would certainly imply (to idiots/right-wingers) that Bill believed that Edelman was correct. Just because Senator Clinton is running for President does not mean that former President Clinton can’t answer questions. Notice that he kept out of this fray until directly asked about the subject! Smart guy!
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 amYeah when the Viet Nam Hawk generation finally dies off America can get about the business of facilitating real peace in the world.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:01 amHey, OBGYN, nice to see you again!
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:18 amI see a lot of Muslims around the world in the streets burning effigies of Bush and Co. screaming death to Bush and America. so what’s your point? Are you saying things will be the same?
Before President Bush they marched around with Death To Clinton signs.
They just want to kill us. Doesn’t matter who is President.
If we decided to remove the troops and declare the war is over, they won’t. They’ll come over here.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:22 ammuckdog,
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:47 amThanks for agreeing with me on the priciple that MAYTAG’s statement about Clinton was idiotic.
If we decided to remove the troops and declare the war is over, they won’t. They’ll come over here.
Comment by muckdog — July 22, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Oh, please, that’s such a laughable argument to make. What’s stopping them from coming over here in the first palce? For that matter, since al Qaeda is supposed to be a “world wide organization” (personally I believe it is less that than a bunch of people pledging support to a common cause), why hasn’t al Qaeda in the Far East launched any attacks against us? They’re all supposed to be one and the same people, right?
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:57 amIf we decided to remove the troops and declare the war is over, they won’t. They’ll come over here.
Comment by muckdog — July 22, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Maybe we can hire them to build a fence to keep the scary Mexicans out. Actually maybe we better start some shit in Mexico. Better to fight them there don’t you think? Oh and what about those Indians and their skills our kids lack, and the Chinese, and those Europeans what with their better taste in food and culture. Damn we need to get going before they invade our trailer parks and reality tv shows.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmWhat’s stopping them from coming over here in the first palce?
Our troops are over there fighting on their home field. We’ve distracted them. Diverted their attention. They can’t put their offense on the field when we’ve got our offense on the field. They’re playing defense. If we remove our troops, then they will be able to go on offense again.
If you were running Al Qaeda, would you attack US interests in the Far East? And where?
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pmThey’re playing defense.
No they aren’t they are playing covert offense by draining our resources in a stupid misguided trap which are “cowboy” raised mentalities respond to all too easily. Once we have been financially and emotionally broken they will have won.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pmSo you’d rather have them blowing up buildings, schools, and shopping malls in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc?
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:25 pmClinton should stop pre-empting his wife. Cannot she speak nfor herself without the aid of an ex president? To me it is proof–Bill wants back in the White House. He cannot be elected, so he seeks to use his wife to get back in.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pmShe, flush with the idea of becoming president, and the first woman president at that, is willing to let him bat for her, because she just cannot make it on her own.That is the way I see it.
Our troops are over there fighting on their home field. We’ve distracted them. Diverted their attention. They can’t put their offense on the field when we’ve got our offense on the field. They’re playing defense. If we remove our troops, then they will be able to go on offense again.
If you were running Al Qaeda, would you attack US interests in the Far East? And where?
Comment by muckdog — July 22, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Sorry, pal, but you’ve been listening to Giuliani too much. Your entire “offense-defense” scenario is completely delusional and overly-simplistic to have any validity.
And they can attack us here from the far East the same way they got to us from the Middle East, or are you too limited in your thinking to see that?
BTW, if what they really wanted was to kill as many Americans as possible, and if they really do have “sleeper cells” in the US already, then why haven’t they ever loaded up a small plane with explosives and flown it in to a stadium filled with people? Wouldn’t be that hard. Small aircraft don’t go through the same security checks as big airplanes do. Shea Stadium is just a few hundred yards from the runways at Laguardia. They could be in the air and into the stadium before anyone knew something was amiss. And yet, they haven’t even attempted this yet. I wonder why.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:05 pmit was my understanding that the neoCons were mainly Jewish, so unless I’m mistaken, the above comment about the neocons having “Aryan†preferences would not be accurate.
Comment by Mr. Kalashnikov #59
WRONG!
…there are plenty of Jewish al Ceeracka wannabes…
…just like there are Black, Asian,and Latin al Ceeracka wannabes…
…they’re all TRAITORS under the banner of…
…”conned’self-servatism”…
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 pmanother incompetent hack…*yawn*…so what else is new?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 pmAh, Wayne. You’re either dumb or naive.
Fortunately for all of us, you’re not calling the shots.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 pm“…it was my understanding that the neoCons were mainly Jewish…”
Comment by Mr. Kalashnikov — July 22, 2007 @ 8:18 am
Funny, the current corrupt, crooked president and his president-in-charge-of-Vice, SiCKO DiCKO, don’t look Jewish. However, those two impeachment candidates perfectly fit my earlier description of NeoCons:
When it comes to policy, NeoCons seem to prefer:
> property over people
> the status quo over progress
> war over peace
> rich over poor
> white (Aryan) over people of color
and
> their global conglomerate Pimps over EVERYTHING!
When it comes to political tactics, NeoCons consider every encounter with those who disagree with them to be “war†(e.g., the cultural “warâ€), so they take no prisoners.
When it comes to personal humanity, by and large, NeoCons strike me as priggishly smug, arrogant, selfish, unyielding to reason, lacking in compassion, power-hungry, out of touch with the majority of Americans, and warmongering.
Whether Ãœber-Under Secretary Edelman is Jewish or not seems to be beside the point. Remember the part about NeoCons being “slavishly subservient and acquiescent to the current corrupt, crooked president and his president-in-charge-of-Vice, SiCKO DiCKO?” Edelman is following the NeoCon screed set down for him by those to whom he is a lackey.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 pmEdelman went too far. The prick seems to believe that Cheney’s umbrella is enough to cover his outrageous statements. Wrong! Gates definitely did not endorse the arrogant sycophant.
Go f… yourself, Edelman. You are a nothing, and hopefully, you will be relagated to official nothingness in 2008.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:22 pm“…That is the way I see it.”
Comment by No named — July 22, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
Then maybe you ought to get new glasses. Senator Clinton went to bat for herself by re-addressing her concerns to Gates himself, and did so in the right way, by not dignifying Edelman’s attack on her. President Clinton did the right thing by NOT immediately commenting on Edelman’s nasty letter when Senator Clinton received it. He was asked a question, and answered it appropriately and reservedly.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:28 amHow long was it that traitors to Hitler’s regime were eventually considered heroes by the rest of the world
?. At what point did the decision to sell out the Nazis to their enemies become the moral thing to do rather than being acts of treason?
When did pentagon personnel become partisan political lobbyists?
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 amClinton asked for the plans for withdrawal and redeployment and got a political assessment on her judgment from a hack working at the pentagon. Kind of like asking where the bathroom is and getting a lecture on bladder control from an plummer. Some one should slap him. And Gates is just the man for the job.
#92****You aren’t really thinking. The NIE reports that the 5-7% attacking us in Iraq as al qaeda would be thrown out of the country by the Sunni, Shiites and Kurds if the US withdraws. The terrorists don’t have and army, air force or navy to attack us. And handfulls of terrorists can just as easily attack us here by sneaking into our country whether we have troops in Iraq or not. Our men are getting killed there because it’s the only place where we are close enough for them to kill us on a routine basis. The terrorists have bullied Bush into staying in Iraq for exactly that reason, it makes it easy to kill us and it bolsters their recruitment efforts. Bush’s policies do more to build up and supply the terrorists than anything else they’ve tried. Iraq has gotten nearly 4000 American troops killed, it has drained our treasure and gave us the reputation of being just as bad as Sadam because we now torture people , and our soldiers are on video raping 14 y/o girls. We are less safe now than ever before because of our occupation of Iraq where we are refereeing a civil war. The terrorists that attacked us are in Pakistan and Afghanistan, not in Iraq. They have incited Sunni extremists to kill us there. They are neither distracted nor do they have their “offense” on the field. They are actually standing back laughing at how easy Bush is to manipulate. They got him to act like General George Custer and chase them right into an ambush called a civil war and keep Bush there by calling him ‘chicken” so they can continue to kill us with little effort other than sabotage and getting Sunnis vs Shiites to shoot anything in between like US forces. The terrorists like al qaeda don’t brag look at what we did to the Americans,…they brag, “Look at what we made them do to themselves”. Get smart and get our troops out of the turkey shoot. The Iraqis will come to their own agreements our of necessity. Our troops should go after the real al qaeda and our national guard should be home protecting our docks protecting us here from all disasters, natural or not. Stop this stupid occupation, where soldiers are “forced” to fight and die for a mistake. 5 kids killed everyday and 10-15 wounded and that is not counting the innocent Iraqi men, women and children caught in the crossfire or the 12billion/mo we are paying to continue the occupation. If you care, if you really care about our soldiers then protect them and bring them home now. Hell, we held the Russians with all their nukes off for 50 yrs without giving up our personal freedoms, I’d say we can handle a handfull of terrorists who have no army, air force or navy to attack us. We are pretty smart Americans after all. Think about it.
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 am