NBC’s David Gregory: The Angry Left Is Not ‘Very Serious And Tough’ On Iraq
NBC’s David Gregory: The Angry Left Is Not ‘Very Serious And Tough’ On Iraq
On the Chris Matthews Show this morning, NBC White House correspondent David Gregory said that Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) will need to have “her ‘Sister Souljah’ moment” and distance herself from the “hatred over Iraq” on “the left.”
“The left” needs to “think about how they’re going to engage the war on terror in a very serious and tough way,” said Gregory. Watch it:
Gregory is echoing the conventional, but deeply flawed, thinking that it is only the “angry left” who want to change course and redeploy from Iraq. In fact, 68 percent of Americans support withdrawal from Iraq within a year.
Gregory suggests that progressives have not been thinking seriously about how to transition responsibly out of Iraq. In fact, the Center for American Progress introduced such a plan in 2005, and has recently adapted the plan to respond to the deteriorating situation in Iraq.
Once again, Gregory is demonstrating his fundamental misunderstanding of the current political dynamics in America by describing left-leaning positions as out of touch when they are actually held by the majority of mainstream Americans.
Transcript:
DAVID GREGORY: Hillary Clinton, her Sister Souljah moment is going to be telling the left to move beyond their hatred over Iraq, for Bush, and think about how they’re going to engage the war on terror in a very serious and tough way.
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Well, Hillary is known for her theatrics, and distancing herself from the “hatemongering” (O’Reilly’s word) Left may be a smart move.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 pmWhen you hear people like Gregory, given that his full-time job is being a political reporter and given the access we assume he has to information, we may assume that he has a better perspective of such things than us common folks.
However, my opinion is that he is just stupid and the network is unwilling to get rid of him because he looks good on camera and he helps keep viewers around until the commercial so NBC can charge companies to run ads.
Remember folks, these people are political commentators not because of their experience and knowledge but because they help the network make money.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 pmwhat does gregory know…
the guys’s a brown nose groupie… of the right, at this time…
can’t take him serious at all any more after seeing him
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm“filling in” on the today show…
then “rapping” with rove… the last straw… gag…
…
“Once again, Gregory is demonstrating his fundamental misunderstanding of the current political dynamics in America by describing left-leaning positions as out of touch when they are actually held by the majority of mainstream Americans.”
No, he’s not. He’s displaying his fundamental desire to be accepted by the Martha’s Vineyard crowd. This is how they view progressives.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:12 pmHe’s been dancing with Karl Rove again.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmI’m so confused. Why is it that the MSM left the administration alone for years while this White House and the Pentagon constantly obfuscated any notion of a plan in Iraq and now the Democrats to have any legitimacy for controlling the White House have every single suggestion on administering the future of the iraq situation ridiculed? Toonces has been driving, time to let the car crash and get a new one.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmThe problem is the “angry left” is powerless. Russ Feingold is a perfect example. He’s is one of the very few (in politics) who’s legitimately pissed, and no one will support his efforts.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pmComment by The Eck
You’ve been watching too much television.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:15 pmHmmm….Dick seems to have sold out worse than I had thought, spewing that obvious horseshit. Theres actually two parts to it’s horseshittyness – as mentioned in the post the fact that the complicit elite media are way out of step with the majority of the American public; and, their general assumption that anger (i.e., the “Bush hatred” canard) is not a legitimate and entirely appropriate reaction to the fact that this administration’s incompetence, enabled by folks like Gregory, continues to cause death and suffering on a massive scale, and all in our name. Bastards.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:17 pmnotice how Mr. Gregory is using the points that others use as a motivational tool. Me thinks you are not reading what he is saying properly. Gregory has shown himself at most times to be a news person, and he tries to stay with facts. I don’t have an opinion of him, so this isn’t any kind of partisan statement. He is one of the few remaining that just reports. Most all those on the tube now report and comment so as to make the reporting biased and meaningless.
but he is reminding us that we aren’t tough. he reminds us that we give people too much credit for agreeing with us and then ignoring us.
on the other hand, I agree, David Gregory is a putz that has no business making his opinions known, if he wants to continue to be a news person rather than a pundit.
but serious discussions demand a lot more time than any news show can allow for. pablum is pre chewed for him by his handlers.
Is he helping us by issuing a challenge to get up off our asses? Perhaps.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 pmNo, he’s not. He’s displaying his fundamental desire to be accepted by the Martha’s Vineyard crowd.
Comment by barfly — July 22, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Just like Chris Matthews. I’m hoping that Tweety goes away and MSNBC lets David Schuster take over. Schuster’s reporting is head and shoulders above Gregory and Tweety!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 pmIsn’t this the same guy who did the disco dance to the chick group?
Like I’ll ever take him seriously again.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:20 pmthese fools are no students of history. The entire disaster of iraq and failure to correct course is akin to the Failed venture of Market Garden of WWII to get to berlin (our enemy). The distinction is we at the time realized our mistake and were able to extricate ourselves from such a mistake following devastating casualties, redeploying, and going after the enemy.
These beltway idiots are no students of history and are liars. No Dem or progressive does not recognize their are people who intend us harm and we should actually protect ourselves from the threat. In fact all evidence now shows bush’s optional disaster has weakened us and allowed our enemy to gain strength.
The objective remains the same – AQ. We have not forgotten Bush’s claim that those who harbor terrorists are no different than those who are terrorists( Pakistan). No these deffereral idiots no nothing of how to competently fight a war.
http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/arnhem.htm
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:21 pmWhy do we even give an validity to the idea that we’re in a “War on Terror”? Because Bush said we were? As if that is a sound reason? Bush has been proven wrong about a great many things, even before he took over the White House. (I seriously don’t like to say he was “elected”, because that implies the unspoken “fair and square”, and we all know that isn’t true.)
People, there will ALWAYS be terrorism, just like there will always be crime in general. You will never eliminate either. To claim to be throwing your efforts into a war on a concept is ludicrous. So to continue to speak up about this just shows the inherent fear that some people, like David Gregory, have.
And who’s to say that the only way to be “tough” is through the use of the military? We can still use plenty of non-violent means to combat those who use terror as a weapon. For example, in this country, we have something called the “Ballot Box” to fight the terrorism imposed upon us by our government. They do, after all, constantly want to “terrorize” us with BS warnings of attacks that have little or no foundation. They are constantly trying to keep us in a state of fear, just like al Qaeda. By using the Ballot Box, we can fight, and win against the terrorists in our government without firing a single shot.
No, the battle against the use of terrorism as a tactic will never be “won” militarily. It will only be defeated through education, cooperation, and the showing of a decent respect for humanity that this administration has been unable or unwilling to show.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:23 pmWho watches this show?
hardball is not a particularly popular show. this one is even less so.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:24 pmGregory’s comments typify the arrogance of the MSM and their disdain for the publich they should be trying to serve. They always think they’re just a little smarter than the rest of us, and that we don’t really understand what’s going on. What they don’t get is that we’re way ahead of them.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:24 pmGregory is a clown, as he demonstrated on the stage with Rove. He allows the president to call him “Stretch” at press conferences, which must just tickle him pink. Yuck!
And so does the right – and the rest of us too.
The way we’ve run our foreign policy over the last 5-6 decades is making us less and less safe every year. We need to completely rethink our strategy of aggression, militarism, force and war, and maybe follow the advice of the founders…
some reading on this:
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:24 pm“What Can We Do About Terrorism?”
http://www.populistamerica.com/what_can_we_do_about_terrorism
David Gregory is a Bush Regime apologist and a warmongering idiot.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmOh, we’re not serious?
We were pretty serious when we said the US should not have invaded and occupied Iraq and should have gone after al Qaeda, rebuild Afghanistan with generous investments, and deal seriously with Saudi radicalism that is funding so much of this terror.
As TP notes, the tough and serious plans are out there. The problem is we have too many unserious journalists like David Gregory who won’t bother to read those ideas and plans, or actually listen to us.
How does NBC know what liberals think, anyway? They don’t put us on their programs! Look at Meet the Press this morning!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pmI’m sure his prediction will come true, because Hillary has no interest in the Left, she’s essentially a conservative statist/corporatist.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pm“Gregory’s comments typify the arrogance of the MSM and their disdain for the publich they should be trying to serve. They always think they’re just a little smarter than the rest of us, and that we don’t really understand what’s going on…”
Comment by DanHasSpoken — July 22, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Exactly. The “news” outlets are not doing their job of informing the public with facts, but they have the temerity to assume that we’re all stupid as a result. Most “journalists” care more about having an ‘in’ with the power crowd than in doing their real job.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 pmComment by * — July 22, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
Your are so correct. Why is she so hated by those that share the same basic premises. It has to be the vagina. To call her a radical leftist is absurd by all standards of absurdity
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:32 pmI believe he is demonstrating a fundamental awareness that the only political dynamic that matters is that which is driven by the War Profiteers. Money and Power are concentrated in their hands. What the rest of us want or believe doesn’t matter. We are expendable and controllable.
With things like microwave and plasma weapons, it takes very few people to force their will upon the masses. Add to that massive detention centers and torture to elicit “confessions” and implicate “co-conspirators” and we will soon see a purge that would make Stalin envious.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:32 pmMost people never call themselves Left or Right.
Such labeling is good for people like Gregory,and others in the media and politics..
The reality is most people want this war to end.
It was reflected in last years elections when Democrats won big and took the Congress back.
Again latest polls show small confidence in this Congress by people,not because they are Right or Left, but simply because Congress members did not live up to what they promised the voters…and many might not come back again to the Congress after next year’s election in 2008,because of people’s anger.
The anger is not Left or Right anger, but it is the majority’s anger.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm“The left†needs to “think about how they’re going to engage the war on terror in a very serious and tough way,â€
Must see TV!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:34 pmAngry left, angry right. They’re all the same.
Bloody fools.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:35 pmNews Flash to Gregory…the left is pissed and the center is pissed. The right…well…they’re just piss drunk.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm“Gregory is demonstrating his fundamental misunderstanding”
I don’t think that is a correct observation. I think Gregory has become compromised by something GWBush approved illegal surveillance techniques turned up on him (Gregory) and he is being blackmailed to be a shill for the administration.
I think the same is true for almost all journalists, with a notable exception of Helen Thomas. I also think that is what is keeping the Congress ‘in line’ with the Bush’s wishes.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:39 pmHe’s paid big bucks not to know that the real concern of most Americans is getting this criminal administration out of power and the Republican Party into jail.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pmGregory’s statements do ring of Beltway mentality; 68% want the war over and David thinks that’s the “angry left”….His perspective really should disturb the population in general.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pmComparing the free-wheeling of Democratic legislators, maybe he feels the “one mind” of the Republicans is easier to report, hence a better message. I am getting very angry with these lazy reporters; if David was being paid minimum wage, it would be too much.
Mr. Gregory should get out of DC more often. Just sitting at the WH waiting to hear Tony Snow shovel his BS and then hear some of those reporters respond,”Thank you, can we have some more” is in effect hurting our nation. Good God, I wish Mr. Gregory knew the US Constitution better.
all the information you need to know
to evaluate david gregory’s comment is :
“NBC white house correspondent”.
he needs access.
he wants good access.
he will do or say whatever is necessary to achieve that access.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pmcosponsor list for H. Res. 333 up to 14. Chairman John Conyers says that if we get 3 more he’ll begin the impeachment proceedings. And many Congress Members must be recognizing that there is no other path available
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pmSorry, Gregory, but these days you are a meager lightweight.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:48 pmit almost sounds like this is david gregory’s very own ’sister souljah moment’
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pmDavid Gregory needs to sit at the knee of David Shuster and Keith Olbermann and have his own brain retooled. He swallows talking points whole.
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pmHe’s just a faceman or basically a comedian. He has no journalistic integrity or skills. And quite honestly did you see him dancing with MC Rove or Lindsay Lohan?
Anyone that is that big of a tool has no business telling anybody anything. Crawl back under the incompetent rock from which you came.
REPUBLICANTS
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pm“The left†needs to “think about how they’re going to engage the war on terror in a very serious and tough way,†said Gregory.
Yeah dummy , in the exact opposite way President Cuckoo Bananas has ineffectually done since being [s]elected……
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:55 pmDavid Gregory is not saying anything different from Bill O’Reilly on this. DailyKos is a hate site, and full of hard lefties and oooh, nobody better support them!
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 pmBipartisanship is good-and it consists PURELY and ONLY of Democrats moving closer to the Republicans–and shutting up.
It’s going to be interesting for Gregory in 2009, when Washington has a President that regards him and his ilk as The Enemy.
“He has no journalistic integrity or skills.”
i don’t think that’s true, but he has shown a certain need for approval from the older male talking heads, be it tweety or imus. that, of course, means that when he talks about defense, he furrows his brow, lowers his voice a little bit, and gets ’serious.’
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 pmlettuce learn from that one thing. everyone on the right thinks we are soft on terror and such. we are just hard on war.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pmRemember, to the right:
“Hate” means being held accountable.
They really, really hate that, and so, in good winger fashion, they turn around and project onto others.
And it’s only going to get worse….
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pmGosh, I feel so bad that a representative of the U.S. press corps considers me to be angry and unreasonable.
Thank God we have such moral guidance by U.S. mainstream reporters, who did such an outstanding job in examining the original case for this war.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:06 pmDavid Gregory is another one of those people who is “embarrassed by passion”. “Serious” presidential candidates have to distance themselves from the base of the party, simply because they care deeply about the issues involved. No assessment of who has been right about what along the way is necessary, as in David Gregory’s world, there are indeed still two valid arguments to the “color of sky: views differ” debate. But really, in this sense, you have to fundamentally misunderstand some really easy math. 70% of the country wants out within a year. what idiot would distance themselves from 70% of the populace while trying to run for president? Does David Gregory understand what it would do to Hillary Clinton’s campaign to get up at say, the Democratic Convention, and tell the audience “Would you hateful people get over your anger about the War in Iraq?”
Why, why do media figures not feel the need to ever think their policy positions and “serious” conclusions through to their logical end?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pmeveryone on the right thinks we are soft on terror and such. we are just hard on war.
Comment by oldtree — July 22, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Nicely put, oldtree. I’ll remember that one when arguing with some of my more conservative friends.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:08 pm“Bush has been proven wrong about a great many things, even before he took over the White House.”
Really? Like what?
“I seriously don’t like to say he was “electedâ€, because that implies the unspoken “fair and squareâ€, and we all know that isn’t true.
It’s not true? Gee wayne, maybe you can explain what really happened?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm“Nicely put, oldtree. I’ll remember that one when arguing with some of my more conservative friends.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007″
And how are you just as strong?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:11 pmThe Dems should offer a solid counter-terrorism strategy.
Be lethal. Be ruthless. Be aggressive. Be quiet.
That’s basically it. Invest heavily in HUMINT whether that be NOC’s or simply paying people for information (works especially well in very poor places). Get the information and once you have it, use the tremendous technological military advantage we have bought ourselves to covertly eliminate the threat. A perfect op would be just obvious enough that only the terrorists themselves would know who was coming after them but some wiggle room either way is acceptable. As long as the masses don’t get briefed, it’s good enough to prevent it from being used as a recruiting tool.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:12 pmAfter seeing Gregory “gettin down” with MC Traitor Rove, what credibility does he have?
None. Zip. Case closed.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:15 pm“Why, why do media figures not feel the need to ever think their policy positions and “serious†conclusions through to their logical end?
Comment by onceler — July 22, 2007″
Maybe they have, unlike you liberals. Maybe they realize what a world disaster we would be facing if we don’t stay and win this war!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:15 pmThe thing is, he might have a point. This administration has completely @#$%ed this situation up, and it would be helpful if we had something to come back with when queried about alternative courses of action in this remarkably @#$%ed world. And ain’t there some political points to be scored by underlining this essential point, that THEY @#$%ed everything up (and will continue to @#$% is it up if given the continued chance yada yada yada)?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:17 pmYou know, I’ve been left for a very long time and it’s made me angry, I’ll admit. I got a bit peeved at being discounted, mocked, and dismissed by the Dems while they were busy triangulating and third waying and stuff like that there. Why, they were so busy keeping the center moving right, they got played right out of the game.
So here’s the thing. Let’s just impeach the man and get on with figuring out how we’re going to save this country and help put Iraq back together again. Nixon had the sense to resign, but we can see that this man is too crazed to even realize how much relief almost everyone would feel if only he would go.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:17 pm“…everyone on the right thinks we are soft on terror and such. we are just hard on war.
Comment by oldtree — July 22, 2007 @ 2:02 pm”
One needs to carefully distinguish between ‘hard on war’ and a ‘war hard-on’.
Otherwise people like michael will think you’ve joined them.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pmIt’s nearly impossible to make a sensible and substanial answer to the question:
Is it only the “angry left” that wants to see an end to the occupation of Iraq, or is it a much larger segment of the American People, who want an end to the occupation of Iraq?
Impossible to make a sensible and substanial answer to such a question, because it contains within it, the nonsensical and insubstantial term “left” (angry or not).
Only assorted lunatics and delusionals and other mental cases, in love with the sound of their own voices, and in love with the foolish opinions those voices sound…
…they’re what makes for such a worthless and senseless dialogue, as centers around the empty nonsense of arguing about the “left” (angry or not).
On the other hand, were the question to be:
Does the continued occupation of Iraq by the U.S. Armed Forces, serve any National Security purpose to the American People, or protect them in any way, from a ‘terrorist attack’?
That question can be answered, because all the terms it contains (and the relationship of those terms, one to another), are both sensible and substantial.
Argue endlessly (and without resolution) about the first question… which is just how mental cases do argue: endlessly (and without resolution)…
Or ask and discuss the second question.
And find yourself easily with the answer “no”.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:20 pm“Get the information and once you have it, use the tremendous technological military advantage we have bought ourselves to covertly eliminate the threat.
Comment by Seriously — July 22, 2007″
Exactly, but you’re wasting your breath with these weak kneed liberals!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm“This administration has completely @#$%ed this situation up
Comment by Cliff — July 22, 2007″
How? Be specific?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:23 pm#54 Michael,
I am a Liberal. I’ll post again for you with some clarification.
The Dems need to offer a solid counter-terrorism strategy.
Be lethal. Be ruthless. Be aggressive. Be quiet.
That’s basically it. Invest heavily in HUMINT whether that be NOC’s or simply paying people for information (works especially well in very poor places). Get the information and once you have it, use the tremendous technological military advantage we have bought ourselves to covertly eliminate the threat. A perfect op would be just obvious enough that only the terrorists themselves would know who was coming after them but some wiggle room either way is acceptable. As long as the masses don’t get briefed, it’s good enough to prevent the effort from being uses as a recruiting tool.
This of course is the most effective counter-terrorism strategy. We don’t do it that way of course, mainly because GOP national defense policy is designed not so much to actually be effective, but rather to transfer wealth from the taxpayer to their cronies (as well as to get them elected). But it makes sense, it’s far cheaper than waging war on everybody, it will work, and the voter will quickly realize it.
So that should be the Dem position on the Global War on Terror.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm“Let’s just impeach the man
Comment by Aunt Deb — July 22, 200″
On what grounds?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:25 pm“Otherwise people like michael will think you’ve joined them.
Comment by Davis X. Machina — July 22, 2007″
No, I know who the weaklings are!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 pmThis guy is just as out of touch with reality as Bush and Co! As if to suggest that it’s only a small, isolated group of mostly Democrats who want us out of Iraq! Where is this guy living? Oh, and it’s the “angry” left as if to suggest that they have some emotional affliction that clouds their sound judgment. Again, wake up, dude, 68% of the country wants us out of Iraq. It’s always about dishonesty and smear tactics when it comes to the GOP.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:27 pm“This of course is the most effective counter-terrorism strategy. We don’t do it that way of course, mainly because GOP national defense policy is designed not so much to actually be effective, but rather to transfer wealth from the taxpayer to their cronies (as well as to get them elected). But it makes sense, it’s far cheaper than waging war on everybody, it will work, and the voter will quickly realize it.
So that should be the Dem position on the Global War on Terror.
Comment by Seriously — July 22, 2007″
It’s sort of refreshing to meet a liberal who has it 50% correct. On the war, you are right on. But I’m afraid you fall into that Michael Moore black hole on the other side. Sad!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:29 pmTurk elections
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:31 pmGet the information and once you have it, use the tremendous technological military advantage we have ….
Ahhh there’s the rub. Yeah, if all the insurgents wore red coats, we’d be out of there by now.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:34 pmThe only way we would get any information, is from cooperation by the Iraqi’s. We are starting to get some cooperation from the Anbar Shieks…after Five years of Al Qaeda blowing up innocent Iraqi civilians.
BUT we’ve still got RAMPANT infitration of the army and police by insurgents. An IED goes off, and nobody saw nothing.
I think the only way to get the cooperation of the Iraqi people is to declare unequivocally that we want NO Permanent Bases, and we are leaving by a date certain.
#60 Michael,
How else would explain such the mess they have created for our country when a classic and already proven counter-terror strategy already exists? Everything they do makes the problem worse, not better. You would have to believe they are dumbest people on earth if they are not doing it on purpose.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm“Oh, and it’s the “angry†left as if to suggest that they have some emotional affliction that clouds their sound judgment.
Comment by W.Clements — July 22, 2007″
You do! It’s called November 4, 2000!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm“Everything they do makes the problem worse
Comment by Seriously — July 22, 2007″
Provide some examples?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:36 pm#62 Badger,
You get the information by spying. With spies. Thing is, when our government hires a spy, TRW doesn’t make a dime. GE doesn’t make a dime. Halliburton doesn’t make a dime. So we don’t hire so many…
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:37 pmGregory hasn’t been listening. He says the left needs to figure how they are going to engage the war on terror. I thought that was the chief aim of border security … to protect its citizenry. (Not launching into preemptive invasions for slam dunk wmd’s.) Or is Gregory saying he wants the left to come up with another country to invade?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:37 pm“This administration has completely @#$%ed this situation up
Comment by Cliff — July 22, 2007″
“How? Be specific?”
Comment by michael
From Raw Story:
General Seeks Troop Cut in Northern Iraq
By ROBERT BURNS
AP Military Writer
BAGHDAD (AP) — In a move that could portend a strategy change, the commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq said Sunday he has proposed reducing his troop levels and shifting next year to missions focused less on direct combat.
Army Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon told The Associated Press that if current trends hold, he would like to begin this troop reduction and change in mission in Ninevah province, where he said Iraqi army forces already are operating nearly independently. He has proposed shifting the province to Iraqi government control as early as August.
Ninevah’s capital is Mosul, the country’s third largest city.
If put in place, Mixon’s approach would not necessarily mean an overall reduction in U.S. troops early next year. It could mean shifting several thousand troops from Mixon’s area to other parts of Iraq for some months.
That, however, could mark the beginning of a phased move away from the heavy combat role that U.S. troops have played, at a cost of more than 3,600 U.S. deaths, for more than four years. That, in turn, could lead to the first substantial U.S. troop reductions beginning in the spring or summer – a far slower timetable than many in Congress are demanding.
[. . .]
There are nearly 24,000 U.S. troops in Mixon’s area of responsibility. It stretches north from Baghdad to the Turkish border, including the semiautonomous Kurdish region where three provinces – Dahuk, Irbil and Sulaimaniyah – already have returned to Iraqi government control.
[. . .]
Mixon’s plan suggests the possibility of a new direction for U.S. strategy. But it is not the first time that senior U.S. commanders have proposed troop reductions and shifts in mission, only to be stopped by an unforeseen surge in insurgent violence.
Last year, for example, the U.S. military was planning to reduce its forces from 15 brigades to 10 or 12 brigades. The idea was scrapped last summer. In January, Bush ordered a boost from 15 brigades to 20.
In the interview, Mixon said he is troubled by a political debate in Washington that appears to him to oversimplify the Iraq problem. He said the U.S. needs a strategy for protecting the gains it has made in Iraq, even as it transitions control to the Iraqi government.
“I don’t want to stay here any longer than we absolutely have to,” he said. “Neither does anybody else. But we understand the investment we’ve made in this place and how important it would be to have at least some type of stability in Iraq prior to us leaving in large numbers.”
Northern Iraq is a diverse area with problems not felt elsewhere in the country. That includes the threat of a large-scale incursion by the Turkish military to drive out Kurdish separatists whom Turkey’s government considers terrorists. Mixon said he does not foresee such a crisis.
“I’m not alarmed about it at all,” he said. “I think that will be worked out in the long run.”
The Kurdish rebel commander, in an AP interview Friday, said he believed the Turkish military will launch a long-anticipated offensive against separatist bases in northern Iraq shortly after Sunday’s general elections in Turkey.
But Murat Karayilan, the leader of the separatist Kurdistan Workers’ Party, denied charges by Turkey’s government that his group was using its bases in Iraq to launch attacks against Turkish forces.
Turkey’s prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has threatened to go into northern Iraq if talks with Iraq and the U.S. after the elections fail to produce effective measures against Kurdish guerrillas.
Erdogan’s ruling party is likely to win a majority of seats in the parliamentary vote.
It would appear that whether or not the Kurds are committing terrorist acts, the Turks are determined to go into northern Iraq. Given that the US has just floated this trial balloon about re-deployment out of Northern Iraq, it would also appear that the US has decided to step back, and let the Turkish government use Bush’s “imminent threat” rationale to weed out any possible Kurdish terrorists (or perhaps just those harboring seperatist sentiments). For the US not to protect the Kurds from Turkish incursion will make a mockery of our position, which formerly was to protect Iraq’s hard fought sovereignty from outside interference, such as with neighboring Iran. We will surely look two-faced if we allow the Kurds to be attacked, while safeguarding Sunnis and Shia from Iranian “interference.”
Specific enough?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:38 pm“and we are leaving by a date certain.
Comment by Badger — July 22, 2007″
So, our enemies can wait us out?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:38 pmSo, our enemies can wait us out?
Comment by michael
Read my last post, pinhead.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pmEveryone needs to ask themselves, Is a war on the the emotion terror a tangible thing? If so what will victory be? When no one is frightened?
Well Boo!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pm#65 Michael,
– Helping to overthrough Mosedgh and replacing him with the brutal dictator, the Shah of Iran was pretty much the spark of the Islamic revolution. Big mistake.
– Funding and training the groups that turned into Al Queda and other such organizations in order to de-stabalize the fake red-scare that was the Soviet Union.
– Lying and cheating to invade a Muslim country run by a secular dictator who was no threat what-so-ever to the United States and in fact was our best back drop against Iran and religious radicals in the region
… to name a few…
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pmSpecific enough?
Comment by barfly
Those are lots of words for michael. Dont you have some drawings of bees and apples for his clarification?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pm“Specific enough?
Comment by barfly — July 22, 2007″
I read it. What point are you trying to make?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:42 pm“Dont you have some drawings of bees and apples for his clarification?
Comment by Juan C — July 22, 2007″
Just get out of Sunday school juan?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:43 pm“Read my last post, pinhead.
Comment by barfly — July 22, 2007″
I read what you cut and pasted and again, what point were you TRYING to make?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:45 pmRead my last post, pinhead.
Comment by barfly
michael doesn’t read. He just posts inane questions that usually do not even have relevance to the post he is responding to.
Asking him to read is like asking a rock not to sink in a pond. it’s not possible. hehe
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:46 pmSo, our enemies can wait us out?
Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Our “Enemies” are the Iraqi people who want us out of their country, and they can definitely wait.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:46 pm#69 michael – So, our enemies can wait us out?
Ridiculous argument – if our enemies can ‘wait us out’, why don’t they lay low and ‘wait us out’ now? There will be peace, which will force us to leave immediately, and then they can wreak havoc…
The childishness of that argument rivals only our President in scale.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm“michael doesn’t read. He just posts inane questions that usually do not even have relevance to the post he is responding to.
Comment by No-Chit — July 22, 2007″
Really? And you can provide an example?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 pmI read it. What point are you trying to make?
Comment by michael —
That the Iraq war was never seriously planned, and the stop-gap measures they’re now taking are too little, too late. I would further make the point that the administration is politically tone-deaf, which is clearly shown by this general’s assertions about Turkish invasion of Iraq.
Are you making the case that this is a good thing?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 pmHow about he hold the ACTUAL problems accountable for 911… 1) Americas foreign policy (treatment of others) .. 2) Saudi Arabia … 3) Pakistan… I know some on the left want to let bygones be bygones … but that is the minority … alot of people for YEARS on the left have been asking why would America attack Brazil instead of Germany and Japan in WWII?… thats right we DIDNT…. but the RIGHT did attack Iraq for 911 instead of SAUDI ARABIA and PAKISTAN because the RIGHT has secret deals set up with these people from decades back…. so they get to attack us on 911 and get away with it because their boy Bush “happened” to be president when 911 occurred….
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 pm“if our enemies can ‘wait us out’, why don’t they lay low and ‘wait us out’ now?
Comment by Ohioan — July 22, 2007″
Because we are there hunting them down, idiot!
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:49 pmBecause we are there hunting them down, idiot!
Comment by michael
Oh, really? Can you provide some examples?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:52 pmBecause we are there hunting them down, idiot!
Comment by michael
We are hunting down Iraqis in their own homeland…. if someone did that to us we would call it EVIL…. and try to kill the invaders and ask Mexico and Canada to help us… Golden Rule… What comes around goes around… YinYang… BLOWBACK…. Some people just never learn…
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm#14 Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Why do we even give an validity to the idea that we’re in a “War on Terror�
Thanks Wayne! This cuts through all the neocon and right wing propaganda and gets right to the heart of the issue! It needs to be repeated again and again.
(I seriously don’t like to say he was “electedâ€, because that implies the unspoken “fair and squareâ€, and we all know that isn’t true.)
Ditto
People, there will ALWAYS be terrorism, just like there will always be crime in general. You will never eliminate either. To claim to be throwing your efforts into a war on a concept is ludicrous.
Exactly! Another thing that needs to be shouted from the rooftops. The phony war on flowers is just as insane. (Why does BushCo hate flowers?)
And who’s to say that the only way to be “tough†is through the use of the military?
BushCo does, and the corporations that benefit from controling people’s lives spend a lot of money to make this a “fact”. (Think oil, munitions makers, Blackwater, military providers, et al). Outside of their ilk, no one but their enablers who act like pilot fish to a predator.
We can still use plenty of non-violent means to combat those who use terror as a weapon. For example, in this country, we have something called the “Ballot Box†to fight the terrorism imposed upon us by our government.
They do, after all, constantly want to “terrorize†us with BS warnings of attacks that have little or no foundation. They are constantly trying to keep us in a state of fear, just like al Qaeda. By using the Ballot Box, we can fight, and win against the terrorists in our government without firing a single shot.
Be careful!!! No left wing extremist terrorist thinking aloud! Remember, “You are with us or you are with the terrorists!”
No, the battle against the use of terrorism as a tactic will never be “won†militarily.
And this understanding puts an end to all discuss… er… Good vs Evil ranting regarding our occupation and fighting in Iraq.
It will only be defeated through education, cooperation, and the showing of a decent respect for humanity that this administration has been unable or unwilling to show.
Realistically, this will take time, like the winning the hearts and minds of the people in the ME, as well as the rest of the world (now that we have squandered the trust and admiration we had for so long. Of course, we have to win our own hearts and minds, first. And that is the biggest problem of all!
Sadly…
We the people want instant everything right this instant! Time is money! Instant coffee. “Just in time” warehousing, (thanks Japan). The list is endless. Hurry the train is leaving! If we are not being entertained every minute, find a channel that will. Keep us so enthrawled we don’t think about the uneventful dull lives we live, and the excuse not to face the emotional problems in our own lives. Don’t ask us to think about any one but ourselves. Give us an easy answer to all those things outside our front door, that are just too complicated or “boring” to bother with. Educate and inform us about the drama in others lives. BTW have you heard anything about Paris, lately? No, not Paris, France! “The man ain’t got no culture.” (Lyrics from the sixties. Simon and Garfunkle I believe with my fading memory.)
All this complication!!! What to do? Ah! Yes! I’ve got it! Bushco is Right. The answer is to reduce all this complication down to dualistic thinking. Right or wrong. Good vs Evil. (And of course only I know which is Good. Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is…) Problem solved! Hand me the remote!
Thanks, Wayne, for a great post that is so spot on! My comments to your post add little to its luster.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm“the RIGHT did attack Iraq for 911
Comment by Gerald Gibson — July 22, 2007″
That’s the biggest bunch of BS” We attacked Iraq because the first Iraqi war had not officially ended as Hussein had not complied with all 12 – 13 UN Resolutions. Bush came into office vowing to go after the terrorists who have been killing innocent men, women, and children all over the world. But a liberal doesn’t have enough comprehension to understand these things.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:54 pmAre corrupt corporate cronies now defining what the Left thinks, putting words in our mouths?
Speaking for myself and I bet many others we are not “hate filled” at all ….rather….
We are horrorstruck! and saddened over the Iraq Invasion and its destructive fallout: the lies that founded it, the needless deaths of Iraqis and Americans, the destruction of Iraq, the 4 million or so Iraqis who had to leave their homeland, the obscene profits made off of it by Haliburton et al…and maybe most of all we are frightened by the loss of our constitution and what they might portend for our beloved country, the United States of America.
For crying out loud. Iraq never did anything to the US. We invaded them for OIL.
PS: I have observed over the past 60+ years that it is the Conservative patriarchal side (no matter the country or issue) that comes down on the side of hate, fear and limitations of civil rights time after time. While the progressives and liberals always seem to support civil rights, freedom and love, and are much more accepting of human nature. Sort of the opposite of hate in my book. sigh
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:54 pm“(I seriously don’t like to say he was “electedâ€, because that implies the unspoken “fair and squareâ€, and we all know that isn’t true.)
Ditto
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007″
Ditto? That’s it? Can you elaborate a little?
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:56 pmReally? And you can provide an example?
Comment by michael
Yes, with this as a start.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:57 pmAnd then refer you to every post you have ever made, none that have any substance.
All you do is post inane questions. Like now.
Bush’s Next War of Aggression
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:58 pmLet’s just say that my position on Iraq has always been the same as American patriot and hero Pat Tillman.
So I guess that means that Pat Tillman is part of this “angy Left” which Gregory is halucinating about.
=====================================
Interviews also show a side of Pat Tillman not widely known — a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty.
…
Mary Tillman said a friend of Pat’s even arranged a private meeting with Chomsky, the antiwar author, to take place after his return from Afghanistan — a meeting prevented by his death. She said that although he supported the Afghan war, believing it justified by the Sept. 11 attacks, “Pat was very critical of the whole Iraq war.â€
…
“I can see it like a movie screen,†Baer said. “We were outside of (a city in southern Iraq) watching as bombs were dropping on the town. We were at an old air base, me, Kevin and Pat, we weren’t in the fight right then. We were talking. And Pat said, ‘You know, this war (in Iraq)is so f— illegal.’ And we all said, ‘Yeah.’ That’s who he was. He totally was against Bush.â€
…
Senior Chief Petty Officer Stephen White — a Navy SEAL who served with Pat and Kevin for four months in Iraq and was the only military member to speak at Tillman’s memorial — said Pat “wasn’t very fired up about being in Iraq†and instead wanted to go fight al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:58 pmBecause we are there hunting them down, idiot!
Comment by michael
We? As in you and others? riiiight.
July 22nd, 2007 at 2:59 pm..unlike you liberals. Maybe they realize what a world disaster we would be facing if we don’t stay and win this war!
michael
BWAHAHAHA HA HA HA! Stop it you’re killing me! HAHAHA! “Stay and win this war! BWAHAHAHAHA!
Bullshit! That is all.
Liberal
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pmJust logged on and read this story.
Gregory needs to understand that “the war on terror” (a WH term) had and has nothing to do with Iraq. So let’s separate the two first.
#1: The military must design a plan for eventual withdrawl from Iraq. Not the Dems, Not the Repubs, and Not the WH. Congress, however, must hold the WH accountable for it’s policies.
#2: Terrorism is a fact of life around the world. It is not just the U.S. versus “them”. You cannot have a “war on terror”. You cannot bomb “terror” .You can have vertical and horizontal intelligence that permits the free exchange of information between countries to aid in our security.
And of course Gregory is wrong about anyone having a “hatred over Iraq”; the anger is directed over failed policy and the lies that got us into this morass and the lies, half-truths and deceptive remarks that are the hallmark of the new American dictatorship.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pmWhen you dance with the devil, as David did with Karla Rove, your credibility goes down the toilet.
He should continue to listen to his Hillary Duff tapes and let us adults take care of the big mean war.
Jack Jett
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pmhttp://www.jackejett.com
“We attacked Iraq because the first Iraqi war had not officially ended as Hussein had not complied with all 12 – 13 UN Resolutions.”
Israel has a list just as long. Should we invade them, as well?
Thanks for running away from my assertion about protecting Iraq’s sovereignty – you demonstrated how unserious you are, and what a political rookie you are. A two-fer.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:01 pm#31 Comment by orionATL — July 22, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
he needs access.
he wants good access.
he will do or say whatever is necessary to achieve that access.
Perfect definition of a pilot fish!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:01 pmExactly, but you’re wasting your breath with these weak kneed liberals!
michael
GEEZ! What the hell is that smell? Oh, I see…Troll geek. never mind.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:02 pmDitto? That’s it? Can you elaborate a little?
Comment by michael
Another question?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pmAre you so stupid you cannot look things up on your own?
Why do you embrace us with you stupidity anyway michael?
Why do you never post anything insightfull?
What is your remedy for the current situation in Iraq?
Why do you support a president that is destroying the Constitution?
Why are you such an idiot?
Why are you such an idiot?
Comment by No-Chit
What idiot could tell you that?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:04 pmMaybe they realize what a world disaster we would be facing if we don’t stay and win this war!
— michael
And how do we win this war, michael?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:04 pmplease give us your wisdom, enlighten us.
Ahhh, how amusing to see that the instant he stops just mindlessly asking questions, and actually tries to stake out a position of his own, Michael reveals himself as an uncontrollably angry and laughably simplistic fool.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:05 pmSo Michael, we are “hunting them down”, are we? Ooooh, I’ll bet “Terrorists” are really bothered by that, considering the whole point of “Terrorism” is to trigger a “Hunt” by the State in order to gain political and military legitimacy for your cause, as well as recruit many, many more people to that cause due to the harsh reprisals asymetric warfare always leads too. That’s why, despite coming on 5 years of “Hunting”, Al Qaeda is as strong as it was on Septemeber 10th still. Every time you kill a second or third in command, they’ve got hundreds more lining up to replace them, see?
In fact, let’s take this down to about your level of aggression control and intellect; try this flash game and see if you can get the basic point;
http://www.newsgaming.com/games/index12.htm
Take your time trying to “Win” that game; it’s probably a more constructive use of your time than spending hours foolishly and obsessively trolling here.
I’m off to lunch! When I return I will cherry pick the dumbest of your posts to comment on.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:05 pmThat’s the biggest bunch of BS†We attacked Iraq because the first Iraqi war had not officially ended as Hussein had not complied with all 12 – 13 UN Resolutions. Bush came into office vowing to go after the terrorists who have been killing innocent men, women, and children all over the world. But a liberal doesn’t have enough comprehension to understand these things.
Comment by michael
Yaaa…
Thats why to this day many on the RIGHT still think Saddam was behind 911…
That is why Bush and Cheney and the NEOCONS mixed Iraq and 911 in the same speeches over and over and over….
So NOW … you are saying… quite incredibly that you IGNORED 911 and OSAMA and went ahead with the PNAC plan and let the people behind 911 go free…
Either way you neocons belong in prison for aiding a foreign enemy…. You tricked many Americans with fraudulent documents and intelligence into believing that Iraq had something to do with 911 AND you lead America away from the people actually behind 911… WHO FUNDED 911??? It sure wasnt Saddam …. it was the people in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that the Bush family and their followers are protecting from American justice….
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:05 pm#38 Comment by pbg — July 22, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Bipartisanship is good-and it consists PURELY and ONLY of Democrats moving closer to the Republicans–and shutting up.
The founding principal of the DLC back in 1985 in response to the “Reagun Revolution.” Bill Clinton is the DLCs poster boy. Hillary was with him all the way. Is Hillary a changed woman? So far I have not seen it.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pmAnd another thing, if anyone out there hasn’t realized it yet, Marc Ambinder’s recent comments, followed by David Gregory’s, is proof that the “Mainstream Media” has declared war on the Democratic Party.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pmThe “mainstream media” has failed at their jobs, pathetically. They are embedded into Washington’s right wing political elite circles. We, the ticked off moderate Americans, have had enough of their miserable failures and blatant partisan reporting, and we have called them on it. As a result, now, these hacks have declared war on us.
I’m off to lunch! When I return I will cherry pick the dumbest of your posts to comment on.
Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
That means you will not comment ; I’m all for that ………
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pmWhat idiot could tell you that?
Comment by barfly
lmao
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pmComment by michael
Brave Sir Michael, forges a path to the rear!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:07 pm#42 Comment by El Cid — July 22, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Gosh, I feel so bad that a representative of the U.S. press corps considers me to be angry and unreasonable.
Thank God we have such moral guidance by U.S. mainstream reporters, who did such an outstanding job in examining the original case for this war.
Hear! Hear!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:08 pmMy head is hanging heavily.
I’m off to lunch! When I return I will cherry pick the dumbest of your posts to comment on.
Comment by michael
You meant to say “I will post more inane questions that have nothing whatsoever to do with your posts, proving what an idiot I can be.”
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:09 pmEver see the movie “Network” from 1976? I didnt till yesterday… I cant believe that stuff was being thought in the 70s and we are still living it now…. amazing…
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:10 pmBrave Sir Michael, forges a path to the rear!
Comment by barfly
As he always does when confronted directly hahahaha
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:10 pmCan you elaborate a little?
Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
Can you go f*ck yourself a lot? While you’re “eating lunch”?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:10 pmMichael,
How else would explain such the mess they have created for our country when a classic and already proven counter-terror strategy already exists?
Comment by Seriously
Why are you trying to debate a Troll? It’s here to smell up the place, disrupt and antaganize and generally give neo-cons a bad name if that’s at all possible. I had my fun with it and quit. Do not engage. That is all.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:10 pmClear thinkers understand that in Iraq and Iran, where 1/2 the worlds oil is stored, there must be stability. At any cost. Left unchecked Saddam would now be in a nuclear arms race with Iran. The winner of that one would change your world as you know it. In ways that are unimaginable. Like it or not, Democrat or Republican president the US military will be there for decades to come.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 pmAnd how do we win this war, michael?
please give us your wisdom, enlighten us.
Comment by No-Chit
I think I speak for everyone when I say that I’ve heard all the “enlightenment” michael is capable of already. PLEASE no more! Thanks!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 pmBush accused Saddam Hussein of violating the UN Security Council resolutions by not revealing the presence of his WMD. Bush then invaded Iraq without permission from the Security Council. It then became apparent that Iraq did not have WMD. Ironically, therefore, Bush violated the UN resolutions and Iraq did not.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 pmBush attacked Iraq based on false pretenses and without UN permission. He, therefore, violated the UN Charter, the Nuremberg Charter, HJR114, and indirectly the Constitution. These are grounds for impeachment.
I’m off to lunch! When I return I will cherry pick the dumbest of your posts to comment on.
Comment by michael
Enjoy your shit sandwhich *ickhead.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmThat’s the biggest bunch of BS†We attacked Iraq because the first Iraqi war had not officially ended as Hussein had not complied with all 12 – 13 UN Resolutions.
Comment by michael
We invaded Iraq because Bushco claimed they had WMDs.
Judith Miller wrote, claiming an anonymous White House source, “The first sign of a smoking gun may be a mushroom cloud.â€
The case for war was all about WMDs.
Where were they michael?
Why did they not find them, when Rumsfeld said “We know where they are”?????
Can you answer that, or do you just post more inane questions?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:16 pmDo not engage. That is all.
Comment by Dean
I think it has a purpose, bashing trolls. Look 105, 72 and 68. It is important to remember the facts and the history. Troll stupidities help us to do that.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:17 pmI’m done. Thanks all I gotta go. I hate Sundays at the office. As for David Gregory he’s a Media Whore. No more no less. Does what he’s told to do. Whether it’s attack Dems or dance for Rove. And he’s about as smart as “michael the troll”. Ciao!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:19 pmI think it has a purpose, bashing trolls. Look 105, 72 and 68. It is important to remember the facts and the history. Troll stupidities help us to do that.
Comment by Juan C
So true. Confront them with the history of what actually occured and every argument they have falls apart.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:22 pmI’m off to lunch! When I return I will cherry pick the dumbest of your posts to comment on.
Comment by michael
Enjoy your shit sandwhich *ickhead.
Comment by Dean — July 22, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
A shit sandwich ?
Then that would leave him headless …………
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pmHistory is worth but Penny’s, the state of “prescience” is lined with gold. Luck also is worth a trip to the pay window.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pmHistory is worth but Penny’s, the state of “prescience†is lined with gold. Luck also is worth a trip to the pay window.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
Yeah too bad that the Chimpy administration members believe “prescience” means before science came about………
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:30 pmSorry in advance, but this will be a long post, and for a reason.
Bush came into office vowing to go after the terrorists who have been killing innocent men, women, and children all over the world. But a liberal doesn’t have enough comprehension to understand these things.
Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Here is the complete text of the speech George Bush when he “came into office”, the first time he was sworn in. If you read it carefully, you will not find ANY “[vow] to go after the terrorists who have been killing innocent men, women, and children all over the world.”
text copied from: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/inaugural-address.html
But a conservative doesn’t have enough comprehension to see what is there and what isn’t.
I bold-faced the two “pledges” (vows?) he made, and the part that showed he lied when you apply it to the people of New Orleans hurt by Katrina. There are many other laughable lines in this speech.
But I do not see the word terror (or any form of it) anywhere in the speech. Therefore, the Miss Coulter Wannabee was factually incorrect.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:31 pmLike it or not, Democrat or Republican president the US military will be there for decades to come.
Comment by onelungwilly
All we have to do is switch off oil and your argument is irrelevant.
I cant believe people just cant get the idea behind “There is more than one way to skin a cat” … It has nothing to do with cats or skining people or anything… it means problems can be solved in more than one way… jesus people… think… between the lot of us we have somewhere come across the answer… but that one person that said it is drowned out by everyone else… that is why an orderly method must be followed like a professional presidency would have done… list ALL possible solutions… and THEN pick the best one…after ALL are equally debated.. looking at the problem from an ideological point of view means you limit your choices in step one which increases the chances of failure from picking the wrong plan… Its pretty simple really… its just logical thinking…
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:37 pm#49 Comment by onceler — July 22, 2007
“Why, why do media figures not feel the need to ever think their policy positions and “serious†conclusions through to their logical end?”
Any one know what the small fish is called that cleans the teeth of predators (like a shark)? I can’t find the name. (I called them pilot fish above. Pilot fish Is wrong. My bad.) That tooth cleaner fish is the perfect visual for MSM enablers.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:37 pmComment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Are those remora?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm#52 Comment by Davis X. Machina — July 22, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
One needs to carefully distinguish between ‘hard on war’ and a ‘war hard-on’.
Perfect!
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:40 pm#56 Comment by Seriously — July 22, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
That you get Michael to agree with you speaks volumes about your understanding of what “liberal” is all about. You are a neocon fooling yourself and trying to fool others that you are liberal.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider
Thanks for the long post. Black and white.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:46 pm#89 Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007″
Ditto? That’s it? Can you elaborate a little?
Hi trollie! Is that elaborate enough? Do you get it?
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:53 pmGregory, get out there and do what you’re paid to do… never mind… you are.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmHere’s my suggestion:
1. Announce to the world that America will no longer support Israel and start the public campaign to dismantle Israel.
2. Tell the world’s Muslims they can stop terrorizing since we’re giving Israel back.
3. And as soon as the first Muslim commits an act of terrorism start dropping strategic nukes from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia to Palestine.
4. Expand Israel.
It’s not as crazy as it sounds.
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmDavid Gregory, why don’t you go dance with MC Rove you fu*king hack, sellout, DC beltway shill-of-a-whore?
-GSD
July 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 pm#56 Comment by Seriously
I agree with the tactics… as long as the correct targets are chosen. But that is only one side of it. America must not have the weakness we currently have where the power to jerk our stringes lies in the hands of those that control our energy… If someone has that kind of leverage over me one of the very first things I do is change that situation… We have the science… we have the money… we have lots and lots of people needing jobs in better high tech areas… we have been to the moon… we have built nuclear bombs way back in the 1940s… we could switch off oil whenever we put our minds to it…
So America… not just the left or the right needs to start thinking… go after the actual people that are willing to attack us in a far less ham handed way as bushies have done AND pull the syringe of oil OUT of our arm… if our dollar is based on that oil then CHANGE it… figure out a way of changing our system so the US dollar is based on something more in our interests…
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:01 pm#117 Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Clear thinkers understand that in Iraq and Iran, where 1/2 the worlds oil is stored, there must be stability.
And BushCo is stabilizing it? Good “thinking” onelung.
At any cost.
This is the neocon mantra! “The ends justifies the means.”
Left unchecked Saddam would now be in a nuclear arms race with Iran.
This is nonsense! Pure neocon talking point.
The winner of that one would change your world as you know it. In ways that are unimaginable.
Yet another neocon talking point! And more fantasy fear mongering.
Like it or not, Democrat or Republican president the US military will be there for decades to come.
And this is the neocon future you want to take place. Do you ever think for yourself? Think? Question?
Oh, nevermind. That is obvious.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:09 pmYou and the other media hacks should have done your goddamn job! Then the “angry left” wouldn’t be so angry! You and your pals in the msm have done severe damage to this country, and who knows for how long! You’re damned right we’re angry, you tool!
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:11 pmGregory is definitely stupid. He got where he is because of his looks and booming voice. What a wanker.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:11 pmJust wondering, does gregory wear a hair piece?
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pmDavid Gregory, why don’t you go dance with MC Rove you fu*king hack, sellout, DC beltway shill-of-a-whore?
-GSD
Comment by GSD
I was going to say just about the same thing, thanks for saving me the trouble.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pm#122 Comment by Juan C — July 22, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
Do not engage. That is all.
Comment by Dean
I think it has a purpose, bashing trolls. Look 105, 72 and 68. It is important to remember the facts and the history. Troll stupidities help us to do that.
There are values, yes. However do those values balance out the negatives? If a person of differing view wants to engage in meaningful debate there is value, as you point out. The problem is that trolls do not come here to discuss. They come to denigrate, inflame, and cause the the people here to lose sight of the topic. In short, to hyjack the thread.
You have seen many threads here disintegrate into highschool word brawls with no other purpose than ego satisfaction. A total waste of time and purpose.
Your defense rests on a very slippery slope.
Personally, I don’t believe that I am required to defend my position to some one whose sole purpose is to p*ss me off or denigrate me and destroy the value here. I will discuss my position with someone like you who has something real to say. From that discussion we might both learn something.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmA shit sandwich ?
Then that would leave him headless …………
Comment by MCMetal
That would make him michael, the headless horse’s assman.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pmComment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
“Clear thinkers understand that in Iraq and Iran, where 1/2 the worlds oil is stored, there must be stability.”
No, clear thinkers understand that the U.S. must wean itself off of oil and focus on alternate fuels/energy sources. Building up these new technologies should also provide well-paying jobs as well as helping to reduce global warming.
“At any cost.” So you don’t care if the U.S. is bankrupted and owes “communist” China its firstborn?
“Left unchecked Saddam would now be in a nuclear arms race with Iran. The winner of that one would change your world as you know it.” First, Saddam was NOT being left unchecked, he was complying with the inspectors, then BushCo pulled the inspectors out in order to invade. Not to mention that the inspectors found no WMDs.
“Like it or not, Democrat or Republican president the US military will be there for decades to come.” You just don’t want those huge military bases that BushCo built in Iraq to go to waste, do you? Have you ever heard of trying to resolve problems with DIPLOMACY? Or do you just solve all of your problems with a gun? While we still had allies, they were helping us to lean on rogue nations. Now most of the rest of the world considers the U.S. to be a rogue nation. Do you think that they’ll really allow us to occupy Iraq for decades? The U.S. is but one nation among many, and will no longer be allowed to run roughshod over the entire planet. Get used to it.
“Clear thinkers” my a$$!
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:37 pmYou have seen many threads here disintegrate into highschool word brawls with no other purpose than ego satisfaction
A shit sandwich ?
Then that would leave him headless …………
Comment by MCMetal
That would make him michael, the headless horse’s assman.
Merlin-see how wrong you are>
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pmMerlin-see how wrong you are>
Comment by Joefriday
Joefriday, you are such a grownup. We are truly impressed.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:45 pm#131 Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Are those remora?
Thanks, Wayne.
From Wiki:
Remoras are commonly found attached to sharks, manta rays, whales and turtles, (hence the common names sharksucker, whalesucker). Smaller remoras also fasten onto fish like tuna and swordfish, and some small remoras travel in the mouths or gills of large manta rays, ocean sunfish, swordfish, and sailfish. Emphasis mine.)
I like sharksucker! Really depicts people in the MSM like Gregory, Novak, Broder et al.These mainstream “fish” keep the neocon line “clean” while cashing in on the closeness to power and money. As long as they keep “cleaning” they are not only safe but “appreciated.”
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pmThanks, Merlin. I appreciate the compliment. I got a link from willyloman (he says hi to all his friends here) that anyone who claims the Bush Administration never lied about Iraq should watch. ANYONE. That includes michael.
http://houston911truth.org/2007/07/21/how-to-create-an-angry-american-lies-straight-out-of-the-neo-con-machines-mouth/
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pmYou have seen many threads here disintegrate into highschool word brawls with no other purpose than ego satisfaction
A shit sandwich ?
Then that would leave him headless …………
Comment by MCMetal
That would make him michael, the headless horse’s assman.
Merlin-see how wrong you are>
Comment by Joefriday — July 22, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
I don’t know who you are , nor do I care ; I already refuted michael’s bullshit claims in a post prior to mocking his lying lame ass.
My mocking of a GOP/Chimpy leg humper is hardly significant in comparison to an individual who is willingly ignorant and blindly and unswervingly loyal to a particular party/group , over the whole country and its citizens.
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pmJoefriday, you are such a grownup. We are truly impressed.
Comment by shane — July 22, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
Thank you ;)
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pm#137 Comment by Guido the Loving OBGYN — July 22, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
It’s not as crazy as it sounds.
HaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
July 22nd, 2007 at 4:50 pm#14
‘Why do we even give an validity to the idea that we’re in a “War on Terrorâ€?’
Wayne,
Tomorrow, I suggest you take the subway down to the intersection of Liberty St & Church St and take a look around.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pmExley, while I still disagree with your sentiment, how the hell are you? And where the hell have you been? Go take a look at wayne’s brain, there’s some pictures you might enjoy.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmThe Left” They need to get over their hatred of the Iraq War and bush, and figure out how they are going to engage the war on terror.”- David Gregory.
We’ll he did what the bush crime family has done many times over, Gregory conflated the Iraq Occupation with the ” war on terror”, with his belt way subservient, marginalization of the ” left”.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 pmGet over it lefties, get on the war band wagon, the Iraq war is all about keeping us safer. Besides my company makes BILLIONS from the war, from selling weapons systems, to hyping the so called war on terror or as his boss Brian “the terror Pimp” Williams admitted, ” we are in the terrorism business ” . So in addition to pleasing war profiteering NBC, his bosses, he pleases the belt way pundits, and more importantly , he does just the opposite of ” speaking truth to power”.
He coddles, he embraces the vampire war mongers, who illegally invaded Iraq, coddles and sells the idea, we need to EXCEPT the occupation (”get over” ) agree that Iraq “war” is needed, while never mentioning all the profits these blood thirsty, money grubbing bastards are making, essentially advancing the neocon agenda the Iraq “war”, which he knows it’s an OCCUPATION, is good.
#14
‘Why do we even give an validity to the idea that we’re in a “War on Terror�’
Wayne,
Tomorrow, I suggest you take the subway down to the intersection of Liberty St & Church St and take a look around.
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
Yeah , and then they should board a plane headed to Wash,DC , and ask our retarded simian president what the hell we’re doing in Iraq…..
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pm#156,
Hi Jane….Yes, we do often disagree on some key points. But it is good to talk to you. I got to visit NY last weekend and got to go to Shea for the first time in about two years. It was good to be back….I will check out Wayne’s Brain….
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmCool pictures, Jane. You were at the Bobby Jones’ one-hitter, eh? Impressive. But I think I have you beat….I was there at the Robin Ventura “Grand Single” game!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmComment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
And yet another troll logs on! You are blind, exley, because you choose to be, and follow a “leader” who with only one eye, has no depth perception.
The old saying goes:
“In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.”
The man with two eyes sees the obvious, (that the one eyed man sees,) yet looks beyond to discern the reality beyond the simplistic dogma of Good vs Evil.
Challenge yourself, Exley! Open your eyes and let your depth perception show you the emotional truth you ignore, with your closed eyes and your fingers in your ears singing “lalala, I can’t hear you.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 pm“…got to go to Shea for the first time in about two years. It was good to be back….”
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
Good for you, hope you enjoyed Shea and the rest of your visit. I haven’t been in a long time either.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:15 pm#158, MCMetal,
There is certainly a reasonable debate about whether our efforts in Iraq are helping or hindering our fight against Al Qaeda.
Wayne, however, seemed not to be questioning merely our efforts in Iraq, but whether we are engaged in a fight against Al Qaeda at all.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:15 pmComment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
And yet another troll logs on! You are blind, exley, because you choose to be, and follow a “leader†who with only one eye, has no depth perception.
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
What can anyone expect from a NY Mutts fan ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pmDavid is part of that crowd. He knew we were being lied into this war and HE was part of that lie.
Now the liar tells us that WE need to get over being lied to. We need to get over having criminals in the White House that treasonously out a CIA agent AND the entire cover that she was working under. We should just get over Bush’s O.J. Simpson “If I did it, this is how I did it” speech. We should just get over an out of control administration that holds itself entirely beyond the law and our system of government. We should just get over the fact that the vice president has declared himself an entity unto himself. We should just get over obstruction of justice, and ignoring congressional subpoenaes.
Well David Gregory needs to get over the fact that we are RIGHTEOUSLY AND JUSTIFIABLY angry and more and more and more true Americans are demanding the impeachment and removal of a criminal organization that has tried to over throw our government. His star and the stars of all the other Bush apologists, is waning. They will be left behind as so much flotsam and jetsam when the tide goes out on the criminal adiminstration of George Bush.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm#158, MCMetal,
There is certainly a reasonable debate about whether our efforts in Iraq are helping or hindering our fight against Al Qaeda.
Wayne, however, seemed not to be questioning merely our efforts in Iraq, but whether we are engaged in a fight against Al Qaeda at all.
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
Wayne’s correct ; you don’t go fishing for Alaskan king crab in the Gulf of Mexico ………..
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm“I was there at the Robin Ventura “Grand Single†game!”
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Lucky bastard!
Sorry for being OT, Merlin and McMetal! Wayne and I have had major disagreements with Exley, but he’s a Mets fan, so we’re usually civil. :-)
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:19 pm“What can anyone expect from a NY Mutts fan ?”
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Hey, I resemble that remark!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:20 pm“I was there at the Robin Ventura “Grand Single†game!â€
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Lucky bastard!
Sorry for being OT, Merlin and McMetal! Wayne and I have had major disagreements with Exley, but he’s a Mets fan, so we’re usually civil. :-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
Jesus
The NY Mutts ……..An inferior team ; even in their own home town.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pm‘What can anyone expect from a NY Mutts fan ?
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 5:16 pm’
You have crossed the line of decency, sir! Criticize me…Criticize the President…But NEVER disparage the New York Mets! (Only Met fans get to do that!)…
Like Jane, I am sorry to go off-topic.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 pm‘What can anyone expect from a NY Mutts fan ?
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 5:16 pm’
You have crossed the line of decency, sir! Criticize me…Criticize the President…But NEVER disparage the New York Mets! (Only Met fans get to do that!)…
Like Jane, I am sorry to go off-topic.
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
Give it a rest ……….The Mutts do not compare to New York’s , and all of baseball’s , real team …….
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:25 pmWayne’s correct ; you don’t go fishing for Alaskan king crab in the Gulf of Mexico ………..
Comment by MCMetal
You do if you’re Bru$chCO!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Psst, don’t tell McMetal that you’re a Mets fan, too!
McMetal, quick question: which NY team is leading their division?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:30 pmHello, I’m Ronald Reagan, former president and Iran/Contra TRAITOR.
Now, I’m DEAD and BURNING IN HELL, and YOU CAN, TOO!
It’s EASY!!
Just continue to support the policies of the BIGGEST TRAITOR to AMERICA EVER, George W. Bush, the Saudi OIL-WHOREBAG!!
Treasonously yours from the pits of hell,
Traitor Ronnie and my Master Satan…
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:35 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Psst, don’t tell McMetal that you’re a Mets fan, too!
McMetal, quick question: which NY team is leading their division?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
Which NY team plays in a much better and loaded league and is currently playing better than any team in baseball ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:35 pmRepublic of Stupidity is a Mets fan???? Who knew? Well, that’s one thing RoS and I have in common….
MCMetal, I recommend you watch ESPN’s “The Bronx Is Burning.” That way you can relive some of that other NY team’s past glories and try to forget that New York in now a Mets town.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:37 pmFrom a psychological perspective, the Bush/Cheney administration and its neocon allies succeeded in promoting the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting our core concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, they will likely try to sell us a continuing occupation of Iraq–or an attack on Iran–in much the same way. I examine these warmongering appeals and how to counter them in a new 10-minute video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It’s available for viewing on YouTube HERE.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:38 pm#165 Comment by foolme1ns — July 22, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Well David Gregory needs to get over the fact that we are RIGHTEOUSLY AND JUSTIFIABLY angry…
One of the sneakiest ways of stopping righteous anger, is to attack it as inappropriate. If they succeed, they can keep doing what ever they want. They use the “politically correct” argument that you are “out of control” when angry.
Have you noticed how up tight (an old saying indicating a person’s skivies are pulled way up tight,) the people are who use this approach? Its like they are talking to themselves, holding all their anger inside, through gritted teeth. Stiff and stuffy with a phony smile and laugh. (Witness all the “captions” used here to describe the photos posted with the articles.)
Our righteous anger has come about, because reason and logic has failed. In the face of “signing statements” used to defy and emasculate the Congress and the people, is there another choice? Anger leads to action. It is the next reasonable and logical step. The founding fathers (especially Jefferson) warned about tyrants, and that there might come a time when the people would need to rebel.
Leave calm and reasonable discussion to a time when it will have some affect. Until that time we need to be angry to get past the complacency the neocons want us to have! (Think the “go shopping” remark!)
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:39 pm“Like it or not, Democrat or Republican president the US military will be there for decades to come.†You just don’t want those huge military bases that BushCo built in Iraq to go to waste, do you? Have you ever heard of trying to resolve problems with DIPLOMACY? Or do you just solve all of your problems with a gun? While we still had allies, they were helping us to lean on rogue nations. Now most of the rest of the world considers the U.S. to be a rogue nation. Do you think that they’ll really allow us to occupy Iraq for decades? The U.S. is but one nation among many, and will no longer be allowed to run roughshod over the entire planet. Get used to it.
“Clear thinkers†my a$$!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Another round of talks between Iran and the US are set to start in Baghdad tomorrow, I hope they continue and are successful. The quicker and the more troops come home the better. History of the last 4000 yeas as it applies to this area of the world tells us that war is inevitable, our economy IS oil based, the math on this one is rather easy. I wish I could live in the theoretical world free from hate and discontent….side by side with all other peace loving people.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:40 pmRepublic of Stupidity is a Mets fan???? Who knew? Well, that’s one thing RoS and I have in common….
MCMetal, I recommend you watch ESPN’s “The Bronx Is Burning.†That way you can relive some of that other NY team’s past glories and try to forget that New York in now a Mets town.
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
According to whom ?
The Yankees will draw 4 MILLION fans at both their home games and their away games ; the Mutts will be lucky to draw 4 Million combined.
BTW
Who has won the last World Series for NY ?
Wasn’t it the celebrated team from the Bronx that spanked the always 2nd rate team from Flushing (a toilet)?
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:40 pmWe have come here many times before
To find your strategy to peace is war
Killing helpless men, women and children
That don’t even know what they are dying for
We can’t trust you when you take a stand
With a cold expression on your face
Saying give us what we want or we’ll destroy
“Saturn”
Stevie Wonder (1976)
Even MORE TRUE today….
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pmIMPORTANT correction:
We have come here many times before
To find your strategy to peace is war
Killing helpless men, women and children
That don’t even know what they are dying for
We can’t trust you when you take a stand
WITH A GUN AND BIBLE IN YOUR HAND
And a cold expression on your face
Saying give us what we want or we’ll destroy
“Saturnâ€
Stevie Wonder (1976)
Even MORE TRUE today….
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 pm“History of the last 4000 yeas as it applies to this area of the world tells us that war is inevitable, our economy IS oil based, the math on this one is rather easy. I wish I could live in the theoretical world free from hate and discontent….side by side with all other peace loving people.”
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
So you’re saying that we should just bow to the inevitable and not try to change things? Why not even TRY to change the theoretical into reality? War is not always inevitable, our economy can be weaned off oil, and “resistance is NOT futile.”
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pmThe Mets have already drawn more than 2 million this season. Mets fever has gripped New York….
As for the last World Series for NY, that was technically “won” by the Yankees. But, anyone who watched that series knows the Yankees were helped by numerous “questionable” calls by the umps. That 2000 Yankees “championship” has a HUGE asterisk next to it. It was as if an NBA ref was officiating that series!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 pm“the RIGHT did attack Iraq for 911
Comment by Gerald Gibson — July 22, 2007″
That’s the biggest bunch of BS†We attacked Iraq because the first Iraqi war had not officially ended as Hussein had not complied with all 12 – 13 UN Resolutions. Bush came into office vowing to go after the terrorists who have been killing innocent men, women, and children all over the world. But a liberal doesn’t have enough comprehension to understand these things.
Comment by michael — July 22, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
I’m a little late to the ball on this one, and it may be that Wayne has already addressed this.
First, I imagine what Gerald was saying was that the Right tried to link Iraq and 911, not that the Right actually wanted to attack Iraq because of 911.
That said, it is interesting that, in 2000, Bush did not run on a platform of invading Iraq and that we heard no “serious” threats to Iraq from this Administration until after 911. To me, this is one of many “proofs” that puts the lie to the idea that BushCo did not try to link Iraq and 911.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 pmEven a confirmed lefty like Gregory is starting to get a little nervous with the mindless hate mongering on the kook left fringe. No wonder the posts here today have such a paronoid tinge to them.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:49 pmOh, I forgot. That’s usually the case every day.
#183 Jane,
“So you’re saying that we should just bow to the inevitable and not try to change things?”
And change things is exactly what President Bush is trying to accomplish in Iraq. From the very beginning, Bush argued that helping establish a democratic Iraq would be a crucial step in helping create a more peaceful, less terrorist-friendly Middle East. Based on what you are saying, Jane, you should be supporting U.S. efforts in Iraq….
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:50 pmComment by Egreggious — July 22, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Take about six minutes to watch the video I posted a link to at #151. (willyloman sent it to me.) And I addressed that “person” at #128. Thanks.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:51 pmThe Mets have already drawn more than 2 million this season. Mets fever has gripped New York….
As for the last World Series for NY, that was technically “won†by the Yankees. But, anyone who watched that series knows the Yankees were helped by numerous “questionable†calls by the umps. That 2000 Yankees “championship†has a HUGE asterisk next to it. It was as if an NBA ref was officiating that series!
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
The Yankees attendance average for an AWAY game is higher than the Mutts average for a HOME game.
That “Mutts Fever” resembles a mere sniffle………..
BTW
The Mutts got blown out 4-1 , which could have easily been a sweep ; don’t try and claim you got “robbed” when you were clearly the inferior team and never stood a chance in hell.
It’s like Chimpy entering an oratorical contest…..
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:56 pmRepublic of Stupidity is a Mets fan???? Who knew? Well, that’s one thing RoS and I have in common…
Comment by Exley
T’is true, T’is true… ever since 1967. I had a friend in highschool (upstate NY) who told me about them. He said what made them so cool was the fact that they were so bad. I started following them at the tail end of that season, the right from the start of 1968.
I think I listened to every game in 1969 on my cheap little transistor radio. Somehow I could get a clear signal all the way out to near Rochester. I liked West Coast games because they’d be on to 2 or 3 in the morning if they went into extra innings.
I remember Seaver’s near perfecto and I remember the Mets playing against Bob Gibson.
I believe I might have made a rude comment or 2 in past about you, Exley.
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:56 pmOh, BTW, OT?? Hey, it’s a weekend, and Mets fans are here! ;-D!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:57 pmBut a liberal doesn’t have enough comprehension to understand these things.
Comment by michael
let me correct that for you michael.
But a CONservative doesn’t have enough backbone to admit he’s wrong.
There, all better!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 5:58 pmComment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
What I was saying was solely in response to onelungwilly’s post. If you read his other posts and my responses, you’ll see that I am saying that problems are not solved with a gun, or military force. The sort of change that you’re talking about, and Bush is lying about, is the kind that can only come from within a country. If the Iraqi people had originally asked for the U.S.’s help in establishing a democratic Iraq, that would be a different scenario altogether, and one that I, personally, would have supported – but not by FORCE. However, if you have read anything about PNAC, you’d see that the idea of invading and occupying Iraq was BushCo’s plan before he even got to the White House.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:00 pm#183 Jane,
“So you’re saying that we should just bow to the inevitable and not try to change things?â€
And change things is exactly what President Bush is trying to accomplish in Iraq. From the very beginning, Bush argued that helping establish a democratic Iraq would be a crucial step in helping create a more peaceful, less terrorist-friendly Middle East. Based on what you are saying, Jane, you should be supporting U.S. efforts in Iraq….
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
You cannot be serious.
Chimpy the Wonder Monkey didn’t even know that Iraq was separated by 3 different sects ; the Sunni , Shia and Kurds.
Before trying to “help” others , it would help if you knew something ridiculously basic about them……….This idiotic Iraq Adventure has never been about the Iraqi people ; it’s been about Chimpy’s searing hatred for Saddam (who tried to off the senior Shrub) , oil , and Chimpy’s legacy as a “war president”.
They thought that Iraq would be an “easy go” ; sadly , just as with everything this administration has claimed , they were monumentally wrong.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:01 pmSo you’re saying that we should just bow to the inevitable and not try to change things? Why not even TRY to change the theoretical into reality? War is not always inevitable, our economy can be weaned off oil, and “resistance is NOT futile.â€
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
Hopefully a peaceful resolution can be found…forever. One must be ever mindful of history and those with who we are dealing. Their belief’s are absolute. Their laws are also their religon…inseperable in their eyes. They don’t negotiate the laws of their religion OR their beliefs. Their religion gives no leniency to others. Its black and white. Negotiations digress to the most simplistic forms….what is it going to take for you to leave us alone?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:03 pmBush Believed what the Iraqi Exiles were telling him. Saddam would be easy to topple, and the Iraqi people would reward their liberation from the Butcher of Baghdad by becoming gratefull, compliant , oil producing American allies.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:03 pmNot enough troops. Shakey WMD evidence. No ties to Bin Laden. No world support. Who cares. No Problem. It would be a quick Glorious Victory and no one would care about the details and incorrect intelligence.
Then the looting started….
So you’re saying that we should just bow to the inevitable and not try to change things? Why not even TRY to change the theoretical into reality? War is not always inevitable, our economy can be weaned off oil, and “resistance is NOT futile.â€
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
Hopefully a peaceful resolution can be found…forever. One must be ever mindful of history and those with who we are dealing. Their belief’s are absolute. Their laws are also their religon…inseperable in their eyes. They don’t negotiate the laws of their religion OR their beliefs. Their religion gives no leniency to others. Its black and white. Negotiations digress to the most simplistic forms….what is it going to take for you to leave us alone?
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
As opposed to the open-mindedness and reasonableness of the Chimpy administration and the neo-cons that have influence over them ……………………….
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:04 pmI believe I might have made a rude comment or 2 in past about you, Exley.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
And probably for good reason! :D As I’ve said, Exley and Wayne and I have agreed to disagree politically and ideologically, but I can’t totally dis a fellow Mets sufferer.
Hey, McMetal, how ’bout we agree to disagree on the (off) topic of NY baseball. I’ll admit that the Yanks have, for the majority of the last century, ruled baseball, if you’ll just admit that the Mets are currently in 1st place, and stop calling them “Mutts”? Okay? :-)
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:07 pmHey, McMetal, how ’bout we agree to disagree on the (off) topic of NY baseball. I’ll admit that the Yanks have, for the majority of the last century, ruled baseball, if you’ll just admit that the Mets are currently in 1st place, and stop calling them “Mutts� Okay? :-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I don’t care if they are in 1st ; they play in an inferior league.
It’s like comparing the Western Conf. to the Eastern Conf. in the NBA.
And after today’s loss , your precarious lead is dwindling by the hour…..
And they’re still below the Yankees in every regard , especially when it comes to who is THE TEAM in NY
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmHey, McMetal, how ’bout we agree to disagree on the (off) topic of NY baseball. I’ll admit that the Yanks have, for the majority of the last century, ruled baseball, if you’ll just admit that the Mets are currently in 1st place, and stop calling them “Mutts� Okay? :-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
S’okay w/ me. I’ve even been known to check out a Yankee game from time to time. (Shi-ite… I just like baseball, period. Ever been to Cooperstown? HEAVEN on Earth!). It’d be hard to NOT appreciate some of the things Derek Jeter does. It’s like a good Indianna Jones movie – the movie is only as good as the villain, and let’s face it, the Yankees are baseball’s Evil Empire!
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:14 pmAnd they’re still below the Yankees in every regard , especially when it comes to who is THE TEAM in NY
Comment by MCMetal
Oh, a tough guy, eh?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:15 pmAnd they’re still below the Yankees in every regard , especially when it comes to who is THE TEAM in NY
Comment by MCMetal
Oh, a tough guy, eh?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
C’mon
How can anyone take a team seriously that’s located in a place named after a toilet action ?
Heh heh
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:17 pmS’okay w/ me. I’ve even been known to check out a Yankee game from time to time. (Shi-ite… I just like baseball, period. Ever been to Cooperstown? HEAVEN on Earth!). It’d be hard to NOT appreciate some of the things Derek Jeter does. It’s like a good Indianna Jones movie – the movie is only as good as the villain, and let’s face it, the Yankees are baseball’s Evil Empire!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
Oh please
I recall you delusional souls attempting to ridiculously try and compare Wright and Reyes to Jeter and A-Rod ; how’s that comparison turning out ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:19 pmHeh heh
Comment by MCMetal
Ummm, what was A-Rod’s BA in the playoffs last year? And WHAT’S up w/ that name? I have a friend (a Mets fan) who refers to him as TheRod.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:20 pmComment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
You’re going to beat this one to death, aren’t you? I admit that I have great respect for many of the Yankee players (as TRoS mentioned, Derek Jeter is a phenomenal player), can’t you even try to accord my team (and ME) at least a little respect?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:22 pmDont you just love how being “serious” means “blow sh*t up?”
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:24 pmHeh heh
Comment by MCMetal
Ummm, what was A-Rod’s BA in the playoffs last year? And WHAT’S up w/ that name? I have a friend (a Mets fan) who refers to him as TheRod.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Because David Wright set the playoffs on its ear ?
Want to know what you can tell your friend to call him ?
How about MVP , for the 3rd time .
How many of those has any team that plays for the toilet action-based team even won ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:24 pmI have a friend (a Mets fan) who refers to him as TheRod.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
We call him “GayRod” :)
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:25 pmComment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
You’re going to beat this one to death, aren’t you? I admit that I have great respect for many of the Yankee players (as TRoS mentioned, Derek Jeter is a phenomenal player), can’t you even try to accord my team (and ME) at least a little respect?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Win a World Series within the last decade before trying to talk up your team ; I’ve been to Shea. It sucks.
That team is getting better but that stadium is a relic , and has some of the most lousy concession stands.
The hot dogs taste like rubber and the beer is more flat than mAnn Coulter……
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:26 pmI have a friend (a Mets fan) who refers to him as TheRod.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
We call him “GayRod†:)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
Add “American League MVP” to that ; and the best player in baseball , too….
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:27 pmTake about six minutes to watch the video I posted a link to at #151. (willyloman sent it to me.) And I addressed that “person†at #128. Thanks.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Thanks for the awesome video link, Wayne (and willyloman). Man, if that’s not lying, then it’s as close as you can get.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pm#196 Comment by Badger — July 22, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Bush Believed what the Iraqi Exiles were telling him.
Slight change.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pmHow about “The exiles told Bush what they knew he (and the neocons) wanted to hear.”
And that Chalabi knew they would benefit by becoming the puppet government after Sadaam fell. He was on his way to Iraq to do just that. Unfortunately for him…
TP, why does Wayne’s post at #200 keep disappearing and reappearing? TP Admin?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:29 pmAdd “American League MVP†to that ; and the best player in baseball , too….
Comment by MCMetal
Yet somehow WS ringless… how odd, and always AWOL at crunch time.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pmThe hot dogs taste like rubber and the beer is more flat than mAnn Coulter……
Comment by MCMetal
mAnn Coulter? Now you’re gettng just down-right rude.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:32 pmAs opposed to the open-mindedness and reasonableness of the Chimpy administration and the neo-cons that have influence over them ……………………….
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
I refuse to carry even 1/2 of 1 ounce of water for this administration but I am aware that you know negotiations with Bin laden, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al qaeda, Hezbolah, Ainsar al Islam and the rest is all but impossible. I know you are aware that there are a great number of men in these Islamic religion based factions that would really enjoy meeting you MC. You could sit down and talk to them…the conversation would be, shall we say “cut” short.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:33 pmAdd “American League MVP†to that ; and the best player in baseball , too….
Comment by MCMetal
Yet somehow WS ringless… how odd, and always AWOL at crunch time.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
Well , everyone isn’t a Derek Jeter or a Reggie Jackson ; just ask Bill Buckner , probably your “favorite” player of the last 20 years………
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:34 pmI recall you delusional souls attempting to ridiculously try and compare Wright and Reyes to Jeter and A-Rod ; how’s that comparison turning out ?
Comment by MCMetal
Just go back to my comment about Rod and the lack of WS rings. BTW, why haven’t the Yankees won yet another WS since 2000?
And has Jeter forgiven A-Rod for those rather crass remarks?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:35 pmTP, why does Wayne’s post at #200 keep disappearing and reappearing? TP Admin?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
On my screen this is #200: It the same on yours?
Hey, McMetal, how ’bout we agree to disagree on the (off) topic of NY baseball. I’ll admit that the Yanks have, for the majority of the last century, ruled baseball, if you’ll just admit that the Mets are currently in 1st place, and stop calling them “Mutts� Okay? :-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
S’okay w/ me. I’ve even been known to check out a Yankee game from time to time. (Shi-ite… I just like baseball, period. Ever been to Cooperstown? HEAVEN on Earth!). It’d be hard to NOT appreciate some of the things Derek Jeter does. It’s like a good Indianna Jones movie – the movie is only as good as the villain, and let’s face it, the Yankees are baseball’s Evil Empire!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pmComment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
That’s what I show. But, for a brief time, it showed a longish post by Wayne in response to Exley.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pmThat’s what I show. But, for a brief time, it showed a longish post by Wayne in response to Exley.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
WHAT??? I was pre-empted, for WAYNE??? We’ll see about that!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:41 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
No, Wayne was pre-empted by YOU! :-) and :-(
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:42 pmI refuse to carry even 1/2 of 1 ounce of water for this administration but I am aware that you know negotiations with Bin laden, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al qaeda, Hezbolah, Ainsar al Islam and the rest is all but impossible. I know you are aware that there are a great number of men in these Islamic religion based factions that would really enjoy meeting you MC. You could sit down and talk to them…the conversation would be, shall we say “cut†short.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
Really ?
Based upon what ?
Your intimate knowledge of them ?
Knowing anything about me ?
BTW
al Qeada and Bin Laden were given their power by the horseshit GOP’s idiot deity , Ronnie Retard.
Hamas gets an overwhelming amount of their funding provided by the Saudis ; a Shrub family favorite.
Ironic how those in the horseshit GOP that scream about the most “evil” of groups in the world , are the ones that were enabled by those the GOP adore ………
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:42 pmI recall you delusional souls attempting to ridiculously try and compare Wright and Reyes to Jeter and A-Rod ; how’s that comparison turning out ?
Comment by MCMetal
Just go back to my comment about Rod and the lack of WS rings. BTW, why haven’t the Yankees won yet another WS since 2000?
And has Jeter forgiven A-Rod for those rather crass remarks?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
And when is the last time the team from the toilet-action named town has even made a World Series ?
Oh yeah
In 2000 ……..when they got their asses kicked by the Yankees.
You’re trying to find fault with the Yankees ?
Worry about your team even making it as far as that , then ask …….
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:45 pmOh , I forgot
The Taliban were also given a huge cache’ of arms , as were the Contras , by that “great president” , Ronnie Retard.
Quite a visionary , that Ronnie guy , wasn’t he ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:46 pmNo, Wayne was pre-empted by YOU! :-) and :-(
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Well, then that makes perfect sense! Carry on, TP, caryy on (no offense, Wayne..)
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:47 pmI gotta say, it seems like TP is having an identity crisis these days.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm#
Any one know what the small fish is called that cleans the teeth of predators (like a shark)? I can’t find the name. (I called them pilot fish above. Pilot fish Is wrong. My bad.) That tooth cleaner fish is the perfect visual for MSM enablers.
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Are those remora?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Pilot fish is correct, for teeth.
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:58 pmThe remora, attaches and feeds on leftovers that float by and also cleans the skin of paracites =)
#216 Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
I refuse to carry even 1/2 of 1 ounce of water for this administration but I am aware that you know negotiations with Bin laden, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al qaeda, Hezbolah, Ainsar al Islam and the rest is all but impossible.
Your post implies that
1. We believe in negotiating with “terrorists.”
2. That all those groups you have listed above are terrorists.
3. That the only way to “solve the problem” is to fight a military war.
4. That the US is the country to fight that “war.”
So that leads me to ask you:
1. What is it that you believe we want to negotiate?
2. With whom do you think we want to negotiate?
3. Do you see no other way to deal with terrorists other than military force?
4. Why is it the US should be the only country that has the right to decide who is Good and who is Evil and worthy of punnishment?
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:01 pmBased upon what ?
==Their televised killing demonstrations.
Your intimate knowledge of them ?
==Just going by what they say and do.
Knowing anything about me ?
==Your in front of the world.
BTW
al Qeada and Bin Laden were given their power by the horseshit GOP’s idiot deity , Ronnie Retard.
==Bin laden received money from his father, business and sympathetic Islamists to fund al Qeada.
Hamas gets an overwhelming amount of their funding provided by the Saudis ; a Shrub family favorite.
==Wrong again..that would be Palistinians, Syria and Iran.
Ironic how those in the horseshit GOP that scream about the most “evil†of groups in the world , are the ones that were enabled by those the GOP adore ………
==Nonsensical statement???
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Oh , I forgot
The Taliban were also given a huge cache’ of arms , as were the Contras , by that “great president†, Ronnie Retard.
==Wrong again…that would have been sales of arms to Iraq to fund the Contras fight against the Sandinestas….worked out well in the end.
Quite a visionary , that Ronnie guy , wasn’t he ?
==Finally…you got one right
Comment by MCMetal — July 22, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
Please stay here…this is just where you belong.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm#228 Comment by No-Chit — July 22, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Pilot fish is correct, for teeth.
The remora, attaches and feeds on leftovers that float by and also cleans the skin of paracites =)
Thanks No-Chit
Wiki seems to have that same problem as TP with disappearing info. I looked it up and found “no listing”. Now its there. Oh I get it! You just made the entry! Silly me. Maybe I need to learn how to spell fsih. ;)
I still think “sharksucker” is the best description of the media whores, but I guess Pilot Fish will have to do…Sigh
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:14 pm==Wrong again…that would have been sales of arms to Iraq to fund the Contras fight against the Sandinestas….worked out well in the end.
I wonder then why it’s always called the Iran-Contra affair? Because it was really Iraq? Can you find proof that it was Iraq in that arms for hostages deal?
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:19 pmI wonder then why it’s always called the Iran-Contra affair? Because it was really Iraq? Can you find proof that it was Iraq in that arms for hostages deal?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
The Iran-Contra Affair (also Irangate), was a political scandal occurring in 1987 as a result of earlier events during the Reagan administration in which members of the executive branch sold weapons to Iran, an avowed enemy, and illegally used the profits to continue funding rebels, the Contras, in Nicaragua.
This is getting depressing. Some folk seem to think they can just make stuff up and it automatically becomes “fact”.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:27 pm4. Why is it the US should be the only country that has the right to decide who is Good and who is Evil and worthy of punnishment?
Comment by Merlin
Most likely because we have the biggest stick at this point.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:32 pmPlease stay here…this is just where you belong.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Please stop posting here …..every single counter you made was just absolute bullshit culled from your ass.
You sound like a Ronnie Retard supporter.
Oh , and BTW
Where did the majority of Saddam’s supposed weapons cache’ come from ?
A bake sale ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pmHey
1braincellwilly
Hamas gets an overwhelming amount of their funding provided by the Saudis ; a Shrub family favorite.
==Wrong again..that would be Palistinians, Syria and Iran.
The majority of Hamas funding comes from Saudi Arabia.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:44 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
#234 Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 22, 2007 @ 7:32
4. Why is it the US should be the only country that has the right to decide who is Good and who is Evil and worthy of punnishment?
Comment by Merlin
Most likely because we have the biggest stick at this point.
I’m still waiting for an answer from onelung. Sigh…
Of course, I might as well accept your humor as definitive. Trolls in drag, (concern troll?) as onelung appears to be, never answer questions that expose them. Any answer they give just sinks the other foot in their mouth. And they know it.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pmWhere did the majority of Saddam’s supposed weapons cache’ come from ?
A bake sale ?
Comment by MCMetal Although U.S. arms manufacturers were not as deeply involved as German or British companies in selling weaponry to Iraq, the Reagan administration effectively turned a blind eye to the export of “dual use” items such as chemical precursors and steel tubes that can have military and civilian applications. According to several former officials, the State and Commerce departments promoted trade in such items as a way to boost U.S. exports and acquire political leverage over Hussein.
When United Nations weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, they compiled long lists of chemicals, missile components, and computers from American suppliers, including such household names as Union Carbide and Honeywell, which were being used for military purposes.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pmOT – TRoS: Mets just pulled out a squeaker. Funny, even with Wright and Reyes in slumps, Wright still has a .298 avg w/18 homers, and Reyes missed hitting for the cycle today by a homer… pretty good for 23-year-olds, or are they 24 now?
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 pmAnd again , to Ronnie Reetard’s corpse lover , 1braincellwilly
Oh , I forgot
The Taliban were also given a huge cache’ of arms , as were the Contras , by that “great president†, Ronnie Retard.
==Wrong again…that would have been sales of arms to Iraq to fund the Contras fight against the Sandinestas….worked out well in the end.
The basis of the Taliban was provided when, in the early 1980s, the CIA and the ISI (Pakistan’s Interservices Intelligence Agency) provided arms to any group resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and started the process of gathering radical Muslims from around the world to fight against the Soviets. Osama Bin Laden was one of the key players in organizing these U.S. backed training camps for the Muslims. The U.S. poured funds and arms into Afghanistan and “by 1987, 65,000 tons of U.S.-made weapons and ammunition a year were entering the war” [12].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Afghanistan is a similar FUBAR situation to that in Iraq ; Nicaragua’s president is again Daniel Ortega , who survived a U.S.-backed armed rebellion by the Contras during his 1st stint as president of Nicaragua during his 1st term (1985-1990).
Proving that Ronnie Retard was a moronic simpleton is “good” ?
I concur……
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:52 pmHow does it feel to be nothing more than a GOP/Ronnie Retard jock sniffing jackass ?
Is he auditioning for a position on Fox News?
What a disappointment that guy has turned out to be.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:55 pmHarry Reid’s non-committal, hemming and hawing in response to (Face the Nation) Bob Scheiffer’s question…
…”Will you support Feingold’s call for censure?”…
…shows his (Reid’s) “conservative” (al Ceeracka), Mormon, Nevada leanings…
…with traitors like these (Lievermin and Reid)…
…we’ll be forever spinning our wheels, and listening to bullsh*t and double speak…
…we need committed Progressive Democrats…
…not warmed over Repulsivescum-lite conned’self-serving traitors….
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:57 pmQuite a visionary , that Ronnie guy , wasn’t he ?
==Finally…you got one right
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Proud that you support the 2nd worst president in US history behind only Chimpy the Wonder Monkey , ya’ big dope ?
Congrats , you’re an imbecile……….
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:57 pmFunny, even with Wright and Reyes in slumps, Wright still has a .298 avg w/18 homers, and Reyes missed hitting for the cycle today by a homer… pretty good for 23-year-olds, or are they 24 now?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Wright’s ave has been climbing slowly for months. He was only hitting about .225 for the 1st quarter of the season and it’s been gradually rising ever since. There are times when I wonder why we’re still in 1st place, which, ahem, we are!
I like wins like today’s. I call them ‘gut check’ wins. The team just decided they wanted to win today and dug it out! It does seem as though we’re coming around. We just went into LA and took 3 out of 4 from a front runner in their own park! :-D!!!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:00 pmCongrats , you’re an imbecile……….
Comment by MCMetal
Now, don’t hold back, MC… tell us how you really feel.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:01 pmI wonder then why it’s always called the Iran-Contra affair? Because it was really Iraq? Can you find proof that it was Iraq in that arms for hostages deal?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
Put your straw man back in the closet. Arms were, as you know sold to Iran through Israel. Iraq received the largest amount of arms from the US in the switching of positions.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:03 pmPut your straw man back in the closet. Arms were, as you know sold to Iran through Israel. Iraq received the largest amount of arms from the US in the switching of positions.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:03
What the hell are you talking about? And what do you mean by this “switching positions” remark? I’m not following you.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:13 pmHeres one for you MC……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypa75axdK6o
And there is nothing you can do about it…………..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:15 pmDavid Gregory should stick to his white-boy back-up dancing behind MC Rove.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:18 pm#246 Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Put your straw man back in the closet.
Straw man? Wayne was pointing out your obviously incorrect statement.
Arms were, as you know sold to Iran through Israel. Iraq received the largest amount of arms from the US in the switching of positions.
Switching positions?? Like playing “musical chairs?” What are you talking about?
Oh, and since you are still around, I’m still waiting for your answers to my questions in #229. That was over an hour ago.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:22 pmIt would appear taht “onelung” is scholarship-impaired.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 pmWhat the hell are you talking about? And what do you mean by this “switching positions†remark? I’m not following you.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 22, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
Look it up…during the 8 year war the US, at different times, supported both Iraq and Iran.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:28 pmLook it up…during the 8 year war the US, at different times, supported both Iraq and Iran.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
Everybody knows that. Duh! But the operation known as the “Iran-Contra” affair had nothing selling or giving arms to Iraq.
What I’ll bet you didn’t know is that Reagan was not only aware of what was going on despite his public denials, he testified, under oath (this was back when Republicans weren’t afraid to testify under oath) that the whole thing was taken at his behest.
And GHW Bush, who claimed to be out of the loop, admitted in his memoirs that he was probably one of the few people who knew everything about the operation.
Wrong again…that would have been sales of arms to Iraq to fund the Contras fight against the Sandinestas….worked out well in the end.
Now, explain again the part about us selling arms to Iraq to fund the contras? Because it appears that you are the only one in the country who is aware of this. Can you provide us with a link to your source for this tidbit of info?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:35 pmHey David,
Anyone (who considers him/herself an American)…
…who isn’t “angry”…
…at the criminal TREASON, corruption and incompetence…
…of the Bush regime…
…is a mindless, murderous, gutless…
…TRAITOR…
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:36 pmIs Gregory on ?
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:37 pm#248 Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
Heres one for you MC……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypa75axdK6o
And there is nothing you can do about it…………..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Glad you appreciate the humor!
You ever heard of a “gallows laugh”? Back in the days of public hanging in England, the condemned with a noose around his neck would “entertain” the “viewers” with funny comments until the trap door opened.
You are the “viewer” here laughing at what you don’t understand, as the trap door is about to be tripped sending BushCo and his oblivious “viewers” like you to twist slowly in the breeze.
Did you also know that psychologically, people often pick names that represent themselves in their own eyes? (I picked Merlin you will I’m sure make note of). And you picked a name representing what? A person who can’t get enough air? The air of understanding, perhaps? A brain starved of oxygen has great difficulty thinking straight.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:42 pmThe straw man was “arms for hostages” The US at the end of the war was selling Iraq state of the art hellicoptors…..like about 117.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_sales_to_Iraq_1973-1990
The whole thing was one big cluster**** as I am sure you remember.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:44 pmJust like today…….its about the OIL and always has been. I cut back aprox 20% I hope you can do better.
Did you also know that psychologically, people often pick names that represent themselves in their own eyes? (I picked Merlin you will I’m sure make note of). And you picked a name representing what? A person who can’t get enough air? The air of understanding, perhaps? A brain starved of oxygen has great difficulty thinking straight.
Comment by Merlin — July 22, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Uh…thats because I have only 1 lung…… In your feeble attempt to be “prescient” and “sagacious” your narcissistic condition was reveled psycho boy.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:49 pmDid Michael come back from his lunch? I am waiting with baited breath to read his list of our comments! He promised!
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:53 pmSome of us can be “self deprecating” and laugh at our condition while sadly other find pleasure in bullying and amusing themselves at others expense. Merlin, you are probably a good person….you have just lost your way a little bit. Pure hate is causing you to do things you would not ordinarily do. Please check yourself.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 pmI’ll bet many of you did not know you can pile bull crap that high. You all thought it stopped with Shrub’s and Chinny’s height. There is another shame looking for a place to happen. He jist makes his momma proud.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 pm#258 Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Uh…thats because I have only 1 lung…… In your feeble attempt to be “prescient†and “sagacious†your narcissistic condition was reveled psycho boy.
BwaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaa
Gotcha!
Yeah, and I’m really Merlin.
Psssst…Here is a secret one lung. You refused to take my questions and answer them. So I poked you and you responded. What a punching bag you are. I just love out trolling trolls. Especially ones like you who make that delicious sounding Blappity, blappity blippity blap, as your head bangs around.
P.S.Hey, and you are off the hook about those questions. Don’t embarrass yourself.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:01 pmanyone taking this idiot seriously after he danced onstage with KKKarl Rove during the correspondent’s dinner??
uggggh,……………
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:05 pmSome of us can be “self deprecating†and laugh at our condition while sadly other find pleasure in bullying and amusing themselves at others expense. Merlin, you are probably a good person….you have just lost your way a little bit. Pure hate is causing you to do things you would not ordinarily do. Please check yourself.
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
Nice try, as they say, but you’re talking way over your head. Condescension suits you well however. It is one refuge of trolls. What page is that on in the troll handbook? VV used to talk like that too.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:10 pmMerlin, we both know who got whom. It would help though if you could do some community work in you area with the underprivileged. For a cruel conservative you are living you life in the closet. It’s OK you can come out now. Do you really do smash Kitty’s with sledge hammers, or have you been able to control the urge up until now?
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:18 pmJust out of curiosity, after re-reading this whole thread, what are you guys arguing about?
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 pmComment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
Keep trying, fool… and keep waiting for that trap door to spring.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:30 pmThis guy thinks he’s moderate, no doubt, so he sees the ‘left’ as the little bit of noise he and Versailles can’t avoid. But he fails to note how extreme and far to the right the neocons have taken us. Even if he pushes spokespeople for the Bush gang a little, it’s big in his own mind because they’re so powerful. He’s arrogant, not very bright, and therefore too out of touch to grasp the larger picture.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pmThese clowns need to get out of Washington more and open their ears to what over 65% of the people in this nation are saying. People are very angry about this unending war and the smart ones are aware that our taxes are going to go through the roof because the geniuses in the Bush Administration are funding this war off-budget. When China and Japan call their notes in and our dollar becomes worthless, these wunderkinds aren’t going to know what hit them.
I disregard anything these phony pundits say because life to them is limited to access to the powerful–they don’t care about doing good journalism, they care about their egos and access. They really are a bunch of insecure wuss’–if they had any integrity, they would go after this crew in the White House and demand answers and solutions.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm#199
“It’s like comparing the Western Conf. to the Eastern Conf. in the NBA.
And after today’s loss , your precarious lead is dwindling by the hour…..”
Ummm, MCMetal, the Mets WON today, taking three out of four from the first-place LA Dodgers. Y’see, we have to play REAL teams in our league. We don’t get to beat up on the Devil Rays and Royals to earn our division championships.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pmThe only honest reporter is a poor reporter.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pmComment by Exley
There’s a sports blog somewhere just itching for your input. Why not search them out?
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:09 pmI support the pull-out too, as a slap in the face to that idiot Bush and as a response to 5 inept years of the status quo. Bush didn’t have 5 years to dick around and fail to change strategies out of political nervousness. But you’re a fool if you think a pull-out does anything good for Iraq. You think it’s a bloodbath now? just wait.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:13 pmYou think it’s a bloodbath now? just wait.
Comment by klaus
And if we stay, chances are the blood bath will occur anyway.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:18 pm#273 Comment by klaus — July 22, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
You think it’s a bloodbath now? just wait.
This is a pure neocon talking point.
The civil war is happening now and will continue whether we stay or leave. When they have had enough, their war will stop. We have no control over it. To believe that we do is to arrogantly overestimate our importance there, or sincerely believe the fantasy BushCo has created.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pmEither way, everybody loses as long as we stay the course.
#199
“It’s like comparing the Western Conf. to the Eastern Conf. in the NBA.
And after today’s loss , your precarious lead is dwindling by the hour…..â€
Ummm, MCMetal, the Mets WON today, taking three out of four from the first-place LA Dodgers. Y’see, we have to play REAL teams in our league. We don’t get to beat up on the Devil Rays and Royals to earn our division championships.
Comment by Exley — July 22, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@ Your ridiculous claim that the Dodgers are a “real” team.
Congrats on your comeback win today , but stop being completely silly.
The Tigers , Indians , Red Sox , Angels , Mariners and Twins are all better than the Dodgers…….And they don’t play in the National League.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pmHe is a reichwing bootlicker. This war is part of the neo-con farce of perpetual war. Read “Armed Madhouse”, Greg Palast.
911 was an inside job and the war is part of the plan for a one party rule and fascist regime to replace democracy.
Impeach the chimp.
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pmHeres one for you MC……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypa75axdK6o
And there is nothing you can do about it…………..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Comment by onelungwilly — July 22, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
I never said I could ……….And that’s your retort after being made to look like a clueless and unmitigated ignoramus ?
Leave it to a Ronnie Retard leg humper to be completely useless……..
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:58 pmWhat else is there to expect from the MSM. Five corporations own most of the newspapers, TV stations, and radio stations. It is called an oligopoly. They instruct anyone who work for them to follow the corporate line, which is to bash Democrats.
The media is dead in this country. It is just a mouthpiece for corporate America, hence the Republicans.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pmOh, how did the Administration @#$% the situation up… specifically? Gee golly… maybe:
1) fumbling the ball in Tora Bora. You know what I’m talking about Michael- don’t try to be coy.
2) promising to “never abandon Afganistan again” only to abandon Afganistan again by redeploying our military to Iraq because they were
3) cooking up some TOTALLY PHONY BALONEY invasion of Iraq and actually going through with it
4) and @#$% it up by entrusting the rebuilding of Iraq to GOP hacks
5) who were following a post war plan that didn’t actually exist.
6) and best of all, because everybody knows the political math that a DRAFT = ELECTION DEATH this administration has fought this “GRAND BATTLE OF OUR TIME” with an all volunteer army that was far too small to occupy, pacify and provide security in a country that size, an army that is literally nine months from breaking.
7) this little adventure is now a rallying point for the jihadist movement, a kick in the nuts to the moderate Muslim demographic, yadda yadda yadda.
I could go on for hours but I want to go to bed. Can I be specific? Let’s roll!
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:37 pmWell, if the Bush administration’s actions define what being “serious and tough on Iraq” is, I’d rather take the exact opposite direction. I don’t really care what this twit labels it.
And if this man is a good measure of what White House correspondents think, it is no wonder they don’t ever challenge any claim by the Bush administration, whether on Iraq or anything else. The White House press corps is little more than a ready-set springboard for the Bush administration to effectively “catapult the propaganda”.
That damned “librul” media…
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 amDavid:
Some of us recognize that the “War On Terror” does not exist. It is a Rovian stunt.
You are a tool.
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:07 amWell now I’m serious enough to give lil Davy a rifle and send his butt to Iraq. Along with all the neo-thug bravehearts hiding under the desk instead of fighting for the war they lied to get and lie to keep. Manly men who hide behind keyboard while someone else’s lil Johnnie comes home wrapped in a flag. Lots of flag wrapping going on here, and there.
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:55 amDavid Gregory was once a pretty tough and intelligent reporter. Then he was invited to a white house function. Enough said.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:33 amGregory suggests that progressives have not been thinking seriously about how to transition responsibly out of Iraq. In fact, the Center for American Progress introduced such a plan in 2005, and has recently adapted the plan to respond to the deteriorating situation in Iraq.
Yes. And in it you proposed addressing the most serious issue in Iraq — the security problem and civil war — by monitoring it from over the horizon using the navy.
That was you “thinking seriously about how to transition responsibly out of Iraq” was it ?
Sorry, that’s you declaring you’ve got nothin. And everyone knows it.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:39 amI just nominated David Grgory for Media Putz of the Week.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 am“Gregory suggests that progressives have not been thinking seriously about how to transition responsibly out of Iraq.”
Gregory is a liar.
Rep. Dennis Kucinich has a 12-point plan for responsible withdrawal from the debacle that the nation was lied into. His plan is incorporated into H.R. 1234.
It is time to withdraw, no matter what Gregory and the other NeoCon liars say.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:00 amWhy does anyone care abouth anything this buffoon has to say…Sister Souljah moment–pathetic. These people are all highly paid whores, and so is Tweety. Olberman for president!
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:15 amIs he really a liar ?
I got as far as point 3 on DKs plan which was to withdraw all US contractors responsible for reconstruction because there has been rampant corruption. And turn this over to the Iraqi government where rampant corruption has been redefined as “comparatively not that bad” over the past 4 years.
Is that a sensible plan ? Or is that just a wishlist ?
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:02 pmGregory has no credibility since dancing onstage w/Rove.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:17 pmThe “angry left” now includes almost 70% of the country! The jig is up, Neonuts!
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm