‘Mutilated,’ ‘Tortured,’ And ‘Unidentified Bodies’ In Baghdad Rise To ‘Pre-Surge Levels’
‘Mutilated,’ ‘Tortured,’ And ‘Unidentified Bodies’ In Baghdad Rise To ‘Pre-Surge Levels’
In an attempt to buy more time for his escalation, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said recently that “Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq was just now hitting its stride and was showing some gains in tamping down sectarian violence in Baghdad.”
Most recently, some military officials alleged that “half of Baghdad is now under control” due to the escalation. “I see progress, a steady progress, in every neighborhood that we’ve cleared and then established a full-time presence,” said Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil, Jr., commander of Multi-National Division Baghdad.
But a new report from IraqSlogger reveals that the U.S. presence in Baghdad has shown virtually no progress in stemming the gruesome sectarian death squads pervading the capital. Between June 18 and July 18, “[u]p to 592 unidentified bodies were found dumped in different parts of Baghdad“:
Most of the bodies found by the police — an average of 20 a day — are bound, blindfolded and shot execution style, victims of sectarian violence carried out by both Sunni and Shi’ite death squads. Many also bear signs of torture or mutilation, according to medical sources in Baghdad. Despite official Iraqi and U.S. statements to the contrary, the reports indicate that the number of unidentified bodies in the capital has risen again to pre-surge levels over the last two months.
The report also gives credence to the futility of the escalation, reporting that U.S. troops have largely ignored these violent areas. “Media reports indicate that the U.S. military usually focuses on districts where they are attacked — such as the Sunni districts of Adhamiya, Jami’a and Khadhraa’ — rather than districts witnessing gruesome sectarian reprisal killings.”
Just this morning, the President claimed, “no enemy in Iraq is more ruthless than al Qaeda.” Actually, there are several.
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George W. Bush was heard to say, “Who cares? Where’s my oil? Heh heh.”
July 24th, 2007 at 4:53 pmMore on the surge here:
In the Wake of the Surge…
July 24th, 2007 at 4:54 pmhttp://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
Still waiting for a PNAC, Rape-Public-Can, AIPAC necon fake American troll to point out where in our Constitution that we export democracy at the barrell of a gun?
Water keeps getting heavier.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:56 pmAhhh, like the old times, Negroponte.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIt looks like the Sunnis are getting liquidated.
At least Bush can now add genocide to his list of accomplishments.
-GSD
July 24th, 2007 at 4:58 pmAt least Bush can now add genocide to his list of accomplishments.
-GSD
Comment by GSD
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Actually, if the Dems get their way and we retreat from Iraq it’s the Left that will be able to add genocide to their list of accomplishments….again.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pmis anyone surprised that the administration and most of the media is not talking about this?
They’ll bring up a few negatives as far as they absolutely have to, in order to keep up the appearances of being “honest” - but when it comes to the real horrors of war, they simply ignore it.
Destruction, mutilation and killing - it continues every single day.
This war holds some very serious moral and legal implications for all those involved.
Some reading:
“Collateral Damage is Murder”
July 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/collateral_damage_is_murder
that will be able to add genocide to their list of accomplishments….again.
Comment by Ringo
Oh, … that again, really hurt me because you are a very informed poster. /sarc
July 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pmGods! this makes me sick.
Just LOOK at what the Boy Emperor has done in our name.
I wonder if the World Court can have it’s way with King George? He has to be added to the list of war criminals who MUST be made to stand trial for his crimes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:03 pmMore blood on Bush’s hands and the hands of his sycophantic GOP who continue to enable him. Can’t imagine the degree of karmic payback he’s due to receive - whoa!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:03 pm#9 thankfully, THE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:04 pm“Media reports indicate that the U.S. military usually focuses on districts where they are attacked — such as the Sunni districts of Adhamiya, Jami’a and Khadhraa’ — rather than districts witnessing gruesome sectarian reprisal killings.â€
Do you really think that the US cares what happens to the people of Iraq? If you do, you are seriously deluded. And even if they were going into those areas and cleaning them up, as soon as they leave, they will go right back to the way they were before. Think about how we go out every day looking for IED’s along the side of the road and then go back to the base at night while the insurgents go back to that road to put new IED’s down.
There is no way to “win” an occupation. There is no way we can win being in the middle of a Civil War. We won the war a long time ago. Now we are losing the occupation, and deservedly so. We have no right to occupy Iraq and we have no right to steal their oil.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmstopthecons: Yes, no matter how you dice it, “collateral damage” IS murder. Engaging our troops in a known civil war whose genesis was an illegal invasion of a sovereign country based on lies and manipulated intelligence is also murder. Can’t wait for that class action suit against Bush to begin.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pm#11 - Don’t tease me. I wish it were so. Or even if the Hague was gathering evidence, do they have enough power to enforce appropriate legal action?
Anyone who supports Frat-Boy George should be just as guilty as He Who Is The Decider.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmITMFAs NOW!!!
You can’t retreat from an undeclared enemy. Terrorism is a tactic. You can’t retreat from a tactic.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmSpudge: That was good and so accurate. This single moronic troll actually believes that people think he’s more than one? Amazing how stupid and delusional some people can be.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmU.S. trained death squads no doubt.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmGood thing the Coalition is there, because if they weren’t this would be an all out genocide. Just like Rwanda… you know… where Bill Clinton let nearly 1 million Tutsis die.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmRingo, it must sucks to you that Michael Moore has been right all the way since the Academy Awards…
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmbilbobaggins,
I care about the people of Iraq.
Please read: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pm“#9 thankfully, THE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
Comment by veritas”
I really hope this is true. I would even be willing to give up impeaching them if I knew that they would be tried before the Hague. If they are convicted through the Hague, they will go to prison and no President can pardon them! That would be just and fitting justice.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:08 pmA war crimes tribunal at the Hague will follow his immediate departure from office. Count on it. Germany already has weighed in on Rumsfeld for the same crimes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:08 pmSo what we need to do is immediately exit Iraq so all the killers can get back to their regular jobs at orphanages, flower shops and social centers. Without American troops to hunt them down, the murderers would naturally cease their slaughterous ways and shake hands.
Great logic, I know it worked in Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, Yugoslavia, etc.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmLet’s do some investigative work here, buddies…..let’s put out feelers and check into what’s going on at the Hague vis-a-vis the war crimes of these thugs. Let’s share it with each other.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmhuh?
Comment by Thrasymachos
——————————————–
They’re delusional.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmveritas: any proof on that Hague thingy?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmWhat’s this: Village idiot troll changes name with each post now? I believe Mr. Pee is having a meltdown and this will definitely not be cute. Go get that fake, Spudge and eviscerate him.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pmTHE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
Comment by veritas — July 24, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm——–
huh?
Germany already has weighed in on Rumsfeld for the same crimes.
Comment by veritas
————————————————
And a German judge tossed it out of court.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm“Good thing the Coalition is there, because if they weren’t this would be an all out genocide. Just like Rwanda… you know… where Bill Clinton let nearly 1 million Tutsis die.”
Please, describe this “coalition” to me. How many countries are there now? How many people are represented by these countries.
And talk about ignoring genocide, what about Bush ignoring Darfur?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmAny troll with nothing better to do, aka “a real life”, who sits and posts at TP all day long is definitely a whacko!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmGreat logic, I know it worked in Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, Yugoslavia, etc.
Comment by StarHopper
Well, it would have worked if G-8 hadnt sold weaponry to potential genociders…but lets forget about that and just say that there are good guys and bad guys. Simple!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmThey’re delusional.
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm——————————————————-
I know! It’s kind of funny, :) yet sad. :(
This means the surge is working right? Isn’t that what we were told to expect. More death=freedom on the march!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmAnd talk about ignoring genocide, what about Bush ignoring Darfur?
Comment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:12 pm———————-
The U.N. is already on that.
What is sad is you posting to yourself.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:13 pmRingo you are simply wrong to think that the blame will lay on anyone other than the Bush administration for Iraq. Your earlier link showed another side of Iraq. An Iraq that we all need to see more of but don’t deny the thread as well. There has been sectarian strife and killings going on and they will continue to go on. Ignoring this, missmanaging this and then gatting upset when it’s pointed out to the very people we look to to guide us thru what they started is just wrong.
Don’t you ever look at why the other side has the view they do. Push out the Michael Wiener Savage and Bill O’Rielly thoughts and look at the eroding freedoms in this country and the missmanagement of the conflict in Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 pmIts a civil war so we need to get out of the way.
The occupation is fueling the civil war.
The civil war is a result of 1000 years of religious animosity.
We care about the Iraqi people so we will leave them to their civil war.
Whoooooooooo, when libs talk, logic just hides in a corner.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 pmComment by whiteyfresh — July 24, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
Hey whitey,
I was just thinking I hadn’t seen you for a while, and here you are.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pmHow are you?
Funny thing invading countries…
First invent some crap that scares the sh*t off losers and invade.
Then get the resources of that country (Columbia = drugs, Afghanistan =pipelines and opium, Iraq = oil, Grenada…well, that was just for fun)
Then say you cant leave because things will be much more worse.
That way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pmYo like how the trolls use the UN as a crutch when they don’t want to help and then turn around and say the UN is quaint when it isn’t doing what they want?
Make up your fu*king mind trolls.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:17 pmThat way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
Comment by Juan C
That sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pmFreedom is on the march!
(snark)
July 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pmSo, is it safe to say that the Iraqis are greeting each other as liberators?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:19 pmThrasymachos,
I’d be willing to go with $3 if that’s all you got.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:19 pmFreedom is on the march!
(snark)
Comment by Damian
Yeah, freedom from the bother of breathing and everyday life.
/sarcasm
I hope no other country sees our predicament with the King, and decides to “free” us.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pmWell, it would have worked if G-8 hadnt sold weaponry to potential genociders…but lets forget about that and just say that there are good guys and bad guys. Simple!
We sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
Or are you talking about the communist-bloc AK-47’s which Cambodia used to slaughter their own?
Or maybe you were referring to the Russian tanks and helicopters that the Serbians used during their genocide?
You want simple, qualify your own post as simple-minded. Ignoring the slaughter by saying “yeah but the west sells weapons” is dopey. And you know it.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pmThat sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
Comment by Zooey
You know what, Zoo? Im gonna break into a house. When police catches me, I will say that it was a good thing what I did, becuz otherwise the house could be robbed for who knows else. We cant let that.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:21 pmhellinabucket,
I don’t listen to Savage and I have no use for O’Rielly (or Limbaugh)….But I will take your advise and try to be more gloomy and pessimistic from now on. And I’ll try to remember that when a Sunni tortures his Shiite neighbor to death it’s always George Bush’s fault.
Thanks.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:22 pmI care about the people of Iraq.
Please read: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I am glad to hear about good news - but that is not proof that the “surge” is working. As soon as they leave, or they make a mistake, or a new unit moves in, things will shift.
The area I was in was a ton better by the time we left (only after losing 13-14 percent to casualties or KIAs) which was pretty good for the ground we covered and area we were in; however, the Army moved in - different tactics with different results. The area is worse than when we were there. The to make things worse, an Army soldier raped an Iraqi girl and killed her family. The Iraqis don’t care that it was one soldier - as far as their concerned, it is ALL Americans.
You want more? One of my Marines went back to a different area in Iraq and when I talked to him (at the funeral of a good friend who left an empty seat at the head table of my wedding) said that things were even worse than our area - AND- “For every friend, we make six enemies”. He would have volunteered to go back and help his fellow Marines; however, he is not physically qualified after being injured in an IED attack.
Ringo, your post of a blog is very uplifting and I am glad that not ALL Iraqis hate us, but the longer we stay the more likely we will turn more of them. We are still not putting time, energy, or money into reconstruction - jobs go to contractors for 20 times or more than the cost an Iraqi can do it for. In the mean time, this administration is using fear from the Iraq occupation to dissolve the constitution and strip our rights. When will you see the light? When GW refuses to relinquish power in 08? Or maybe if he does, you will finally jump on board after 10-15 years of OTHER PEOPLE fighting AND DYING for YOU and we have an unmanageable debt that causes our government to cut back on services for OUR people.
I just ask that you look at ALL the information, not just the stuff that confirms what you WANT to believe.
By the way, are you going to sign up to help our troops and give them the rest they need Or are you already in and will be returning soon?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:23 pmJuan C,
Dang…You’re even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:23 pmWe sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:24 pm…
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
————————
Actually, that was the French.
It’s time for strategic air bombings to show the slaughtering masses who’s boss.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThe war was briliantly fought and well won. The occupation was a total bust. The administration failed to prepare and that led to the obscene civil war thats tearing Iraq apart right now. We won the war, but we failed as conquerors, or liberators or whatever word anybody wants to use. George H. Bush, despite anything else, had the wisdom not to depose Sadaam. I thought that was a criminal waste at the time. Seeing what happened now convinces me that he was right, no matter how it disturbs me to admit that. The shattered hulk that once was Iraq is a monument to George W. Bush. Regrettably its also a monument to the United States, because we let it happen.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThat way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
Comment by Juan C
That sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
You must be a piss-soaked troll. Why did we invade the Balkans, why are we still there eight years later?
Must be a secret oil pipeline out there somewhere.
BTW, you libs really really really need to get your talking points straight. You cant denounce the Afghan war while simaltaneously supporting it…not good election strategy.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pmWe sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
Yeah, machetes. You make genocides with machetes. You are bright. Never mind all the choppers and tanks there.
Cambodia…greatest mined country in the world. Wanna guess whose those mines?
The KLA militia was trained and supported by CIA, buddy.
Better luck next time, trying to debunk facts. And I say G-8.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — July 24, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Good blessings, spudge. Thank you for your military service and firm insights.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pmIt is pretty funny that Mr. Pee / CT_V1 / Ringo / PiP / Thrasymachos / etc., etc., etc. continues to troll under all of these different names. Since he/she has so many “personalities” I think a more appropriate name for him/her is Sybil.
Obviously, as stated by others, he/she has no “real life” and no friends since he/she spends all day trolling here. What a loser!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pmI doubt you can be more gloomy than you already are Ringo and that’s not what I had suggested to you. I suggested you open your eyes and see what the substance is that goes against this administration.
you have the right to not decide for yourself. I have the right to stand up to wrong decisions and to search for the truth.
DanCaveman, wonderful and heartfelt post. Thank you for your service to OUR country.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:28 pmThat sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
Dang girl! you’re firey today!
I’m doing fine.Just got back from Transformus(look it up online!)
4 day music and art festival.
In the Mountains of NC.
with 1200 other people.
a 5 story wooden effigy we burned.
and optional clothing.
twas a good time, had by all.
:D
I wanna go back!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmJuan,
Yep. Machetes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmhttp://www.unitedhumanrights.org/ Genocide/ genocide_in_rwanda.htm
Why did we invade the Balkans, why are we still there eight years later?
Putin is pretty pissed about that. NATO broke his word given by Reagan to Gorbachov with the promise that it will not expand further east. mmmm…the West broke its word. Thats really unlikely. Heh.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmComment by King George the Dumber — July 24, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
Look who’s whining. And what previous name did you fall under?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmHear that Ringo? You cant support military action anywhere unless you serve, DFL Rule Book page 14.
Can I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:30 pmDang…You’re even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
Comment by Ringo
Coming from an idiot who couldnt answer a direct question about nuclear power a month ago, but instead was ranting about like he had a clue…its ok.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:31 pmStarHopper:
You seem to be concerned about genocide. Well, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:31 pmRingo: “And I’ll try to remember that when a Sunni tortures his Shiite neighbor to death it’s always George Bush’s fault.”
Good, because if Bush had never become president, none of this would be happening now. There were, at best, 20 to 30 anecdotal stories of Saddam’s Baath party torturing people. They were horrible. But what they did to their people was nothing compared to what Bush has created in Iraq. The only think preventing civil war was a ruthless dictator. The only thing preventing a Shiite arc across the middle east was a ruthless dictator. Osama bin Laden wanted the “secular dictator” removed from power. Bush did Osama’s bidding and the rest is the sorry history of how Bush has ruined any chance for peace in the middle east.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmI just ask that you look at ALL the information, not just the stuff that confirms what you WANT to believe.
Comment by DanCaveman
—————————————————————————-
I do read Thinkprogress everyday.
———————————————————————————–
By the way, are you going to sign up to help our troops and give them the rest they need Or are you already in and will be returning soon?
Comment by DanCaveman
———————————————————————–
When I was young enough to join the military I was a moonbat Lefty. Now I’m in my mid forties.
I do however send care packages to the troops and I’ve donated cash to a number of charities to help the children of Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmCan I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
It’s just that it takes a lot of credibility out of your argument if you are able to serve in an occupation you feel is so important, yet don’t.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmWell, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
Comment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:33 pm———————————
The U.N. is on that with troops from many nations.
Dang…You’re even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
Comment by Ringo
Don’t be offended. It’s not like he said you were dumber than Sean Hannity!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:34 pm#54,
Why strategic bombing, why not carpet bombing?
I believe yours was satire - mine too. I got a lesson in that yesterday.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:34 pmAnd now, phony crocodile tears are being shed by sociopathic Bush worshippers about “genocide.” Give me a frickin break. When Clinton was using U.S. troops to prevent genocide in Bosnia, you people were screaming that he was just trying to change the subject from the much more important issue of blowjobs.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pmComment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Watch what you say, r.
The libs are a ruthless bunch!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pmCareful there thras, juan is into revisionist history and youre spoiling his gig.
The west broke its ‘word’ (whatever the hell that means) to stop a genocide that no one else was willing to, I would think the sensitive libs who cry rivers over the fate of Iraqi muslims would also have the same heartfelt feelings for the Kosovar muslims. Guess not.
Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:36 pmStarhopper: “Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.”
If you a-holes had as much respect for the consitution as you say you do for flags, we’d be in a lot better shape as a country.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:38 pmYou seem to be concerned about genocide. Well, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
I think we should either send in the military or ally with regional nations to kick the living shat out of the Janjaweed savages. I wish Bush would do that though the lefty reaction would be oh so predictable, minus Biden of course, the only adult at last nights CNN debate.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pm#68. Good post Col. That’s one of the “other views” I was suggesting to Ringo.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pmComment by Martha Stewart — July 24, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Your constant repeat of the lefty talking point is akin to saying the following: “Don’t call the police if you plan not to join the force.”
Really, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we’ll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren’t eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pmCareful there thras, juan is into revisionist history and youre spoiling his gig.
…
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm——————————————-
Oh, I see… he’s a post-modern liberal!
I stand corrected: Most of them were killed with Machetes and some rifles.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pmStarHopper—- banging Star Jones is nothing to brag about.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm#71
Yesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pmIf you a-holes had as much respect for the consitution as you say you do for flags, we’d be in a lot better shape as a country.
Ill remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:41 pmReally, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we’ll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren’t eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
Personally, I find you less credible.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pmJuan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.
Comment by StarHopper
Huh??? Whatever.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pmIs there any common sense Liberals in the world or do we have to sit and read this out of touch, insensitive minutia drivel that liberals constantly pour out with the foul-mouthed language associated with it?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThat is a serious question for any left winged person that adds comments to this page or any blog that posts opinions on the internet.
Is this all satirical or is this policy debate or what?
Now everyone read the intelligent responses to this inquiry!
StarHopper, when attempting to get a conceal/carry permit don’t forget about the child molestation charges and felonies against you as well. Those little obstacles might also stop you from getting your “manhood”
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmStarHopper—- banging Star Jones is nothing to brag about.
Dont knock it till you try it. Lovin is lovin.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmI suppose we should leave the war planning in this country to the most liberal academic departments in the U.S. In that case, we’d have a predetermined winner, and it wouldn’t be the U.S.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmStarHopper, the KLA killing two thousand people in a variety of regions is not what you called genocide.
But, again, you must still believe there are WMDs near Tikrit.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:45 pmStarhopper: “Ill remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities.”
OK, so there’s one part of the constitution you seem to value, even though you clearly have forgotten the first part of the most important sentence in that amendment. But, if you’re so concerned about the Second Amendment, why aren’t you concerned with separation of powers, meeting treaty obligations, the first, fourth and 14th amendments and the honesty of the executive branch in dealing with the legislative branch? Are you that selective in your appreciation for our constitution?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmHear that Ringo? You cant support military action anywhere unless you serve, DFL Rule Book page 14.
Can I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
No StarHopper, let me try to explain this to you. You can support a war if you haven’t served when the military is not exhausted and ripping at the seems. When the military personnel, that are more than happy to give their lives for this country, are getting more time to see their family than they are spending in constant combat. However, if you support a war that you consider essential to this country, and our military is being grinded down, THEN NO you can not support the war unless:
1. You think that this country is not worth fighting for OR
2. You are a coward that will not fight for the principles that you value.
At the very least, you should be supporting a draft so that the military has the man power to do what YOU want them to do. Why do you think the American people have not been asked to sacrifice? Do you know how insulting it is when vets come home and some don’t even give the war a second thought and they are being sent out again and again? I still have not heard a good reason why people who support this war (and are eligible for military service) haven’t signed up. In fact, I the question is dodged EVERY TIME. Give me an alternative to 1 or 2.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmComment by John Cook — July 24, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Apparently, according to Zooey, Walt the Man, and mikey r, it is all satire. But I don’t buy it.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmevery one would be a winner and we’d go out for ice cream after.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmStarHopper, when attempting to get a conceal/carry permit don’t forget about the child molestation charges and felonies against you as well. Those little obstacles might also stop you from getting your “manhoodâ€
Oh man, you are so clever and funny! Can I send this post out to my online clan so they can laugh too?
No wait, Im sending this to Leno and maybe you can get a gig on the Tonite Show…whew…my sides hurt!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pm“The U.N. is on that with troops from many nations.
Comment by Thrasymachos”
Oh, I see, so that’s the excuse for the Bush Administration ignoring what is happening in Darfur. He is willing to put us into debt to the tune of billions of dollars a month to make his friends rich in Iraq, but he can’t seem to find any way to help the people in Darfur.
Also, I’d be willing to bet that you are one of those that bashes the UN and wishes that we would get out. But, when you find it convenient, you use the UN as an excuse for Bush’s inaction.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:47 pmJohn Cook, by all means, start a legitimate policy debate. But please have your facts straight.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pm#91. Who did you leave it to the last time because it wasn’t the military’s brightest. Oh that’s right, it was formed by the PNAC boys of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others. Just look at the wonderful job they did.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pmWhen I was young enough to join the military I was a moonbat Lefty. Now I’m in my mid forties.
I do however send care packages to the troops and I’ve donated cash to a number of charities to help the children of Iraq.
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
They are accepting people up to 43 now in the military and have been for a couple of years. So if you are older than 46 then its such a shame that you missed out on all the “fun” in Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:49 pmHey John Cook! You wanted a legitimate policy debate. Let’s have it. I’m sure you have ideas. Bring them on… that is, unless you’re just another bitter conservative whiner.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pmComment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
No. I’m merely pointing out that the U.N. is handling the Darfur situation, which, of course the US cares about as well. Plus, the U.N. has basically said that Iraq is our responsibility, it’s not that they don’t care. Neither the U.N. nor the U.S. wants to see more meaningless killing.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pmThe retard you are addressing has already tried that excuse.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pmThey are accepting people up to 43 now in the military and have been for a couple of years. So if you are older than 46 then its such a shame that you missed out on all the “fun†in Iraq.
Comment by DanCaveman
And, as noted previously, all the troll chickenhawks are the same: too old or too infirm to serve, but always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with. Some things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else’s kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pmI believe Mr. Pee is having a meltdown and this will definitely not be cute. Go get that fake, Spudge and eviscerate him.
Comment by veritas — July 24, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Spooky, Mr. P is having his meltdown at the same time President Bush is having his. And they both are delusional about their own intelligence. I wonder how many similarities the two really share.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:57 pmComment by hellinabucket — July 24, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Why you little………
July 24th, 2007 at 5:58 pmSorry Dan but you dont get to set either the basis or the alternatives, its merely your opinion and nothing more.
I support this war because I feel it was the right thing to do for many reasons, just as I supported Clinton stopping the genocide in the Balkans while the feckless europeans gazed at the clouds.
Im a 41 year old veteran and presumably I could still enlist, though I doubt my construction-ravaged bod could handle bootcamp again. I have twelve years under my belt, including the first Gulf War and unless the nation is in a dire emergency, I feel I have given my due.
You want to cut-off at the knees anyone who supports this war and hasnt served, but youre not the only veteran who has a view of the conflict. Anecdotally I could mention my family and acquaintances who have been to the ME, but Im certain this wouldnt be good enough for you anyway, so why bother?
So instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:01 pmSome things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else’s kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
What branch of the military is Chelsea Clinton currently serving in?
What unit, what ship, what squadron is she assigned to? This is important because her mother voted to send other people’s kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home.
Ill wait while you dig up this information. You dont have to get it down to the company or naval division level, just the ship or battalion would be fine.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:06 pmLast I checked, I haven’t seen either Bush twins in BDUs, either.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pmbut always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with.
You must have been quite hysterical when Clinton sent young Americans to die in Serbia, considering that committing the military is so unlike the democrats.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pmComment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
I have that evidence
She served with the 3rd Academic Battalion, 6th Hippie Regiment, Stanford University.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:11 pmStarHopper: “Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?”
In the military, we take an oath to protect and defend the constitution. To support an illegal war, one in which consensus was built on lies, one which flies in the face of the constitution, is not to support the constitution or our system of laws. To support a lawless administration which trashes the constitution on a daily basis is the most unpatriotic thing an American can do. If you can’t come to terms with the fact that this administration has been lying to the American people about the most important of issues, you owe more allegance to the leader than you do to the system. That is the definition of unpatriotic in this constitutional republic.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:11 pmLast I checked, I haven’t seen either Bush twins in BDUs, either.
Yeah, isnt that something, neither Bush nor Hillary(D-NY) have children in the military.
Kind of squashes the argument that only republicans are willing to send off ‘other people’s kids’ to die.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:12 pmStarhopper: “This is important because her mother voted to send other people’s kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home.”
That’s not correct. Her mother voted for an authorization bill which gave the president the right to invade Iraq as a last possible alternative to weapons inspections and UN mandates. As part of the deal, Bush was supposed to provide, in writing, evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9-11 attack. If you’re going to act like a knowitall, at least get your facts straight.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:13 pmShe served with the 3rd Academic Battalion, 6th Hippie Regiment, Stanford University.
I could have sworn she was part of the ‘Children Of Priviledge’ Honor Guard, their sole duty being the protection of the liberal intelligentsia who attend all the popular dinner parties.
I bow to your superior knowledge on this matter.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pmStarhopper: “Kind of squashes the argument that only republicans are willing to send off ‘other people’s kids’ to die.”
Would you like to start comparing the number of Democratic veterans in congress to Repubs? You’ll lose that game. Would you like to know which party the IAVA thinks supports the troops the best? You’ll lose that one as well.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pmSettle down jack, youre getting a bit frothy around the edges.
I took the same oath you presumably did, I just choose not to see everything as a Bush/Rove conspiracy to create a monarchy and subjugate the world.
On this we will have to differ, or you could continue to lose your temper and Ill ignore you. I dont have much time for rants and flying spittle.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:18 pmThe return of Dead Bodies to presurge levels is evidence that the sectarian violence is back…and that the surge has just moved the problem to different areas of Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pmThe”good news” comes from neighborhoods with huge US Troop presence. This is Not sustainable, and the Iraqi Army isn’t capable of taking over.
The Sunni shieks are turning against Al Qaeda, but they want us out of their country too. So do the Shiite’s.
The surge was Bush’s last hope. There are no more Military Options available.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
What’s up, CT?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pmStarhopper, I know you don’t want to let a silly thing like facts get in the way of your narrative, but Iraq and Afganistan Veterans of America rates lawmakers on their voting records supporting the troops.
Duncan Hunter: C; Dennis Hastert: F; John Cornyn: D-; Rick Santorum: D-; Norm Coleman: D.
By contrast, here are some grades for Democrats:
John Kerry: B; Ted Kennedy: B+; Nancy Pelosi: B+
Talk is cheap, Starhopper. Talk is cheap.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pmPoor Starhopper. He thinks I’m hoppin mad and it offends his delicate sensibilities. Evidently, it’s given him the vapors and we’ll have to call off the cotillion.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pmComment by Thrasymachos — July 24, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Mr. Macho, good evenin’, sir.
Say, would you have one of those special troll-hair combs I could use?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pmYou know what, Zoo? Im gonna break into a house. When police catches me, I will say that it was a good thing what I did, becuz otherwise the house could be robbed for who knows else. We cant let that.
Comment by Juan C — July 24, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
You are so self-sacrificing, Juan. I’m sure the homeowner AND the police would appreciate you doing that. :D
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pm“I just choose not to see everything as a Bush/Rove conspiracy to create a monarchy and subjugate the world.”
What do you suppose it would look like if they did try to do so?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
It ain’t me….
It ain’t me….
I ain’t no senator’s son.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmJack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you? The post I responded to stated that republicans are always sending the military out somewhere, as if dems dont do the same thing.
Pretty easily refuted, the biggest example being Vietnam.
BTW, do you think its republicans or democrats who splash paint on recruiting offices or refer to the troops as (insert slur here)?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmYesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
I still have that box of tissues, if you need them.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmComment by Zooey — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
Why, hello Zoo….
….purrr…..
July 24th, 2007 at 6:25 pm“No. I’m merely pointing out that the U.N. is handling the Darfur situation, which, of course the US cares about as well.”
And they care how? What has the Bush Administration done to show that they care one whit what is happening in Darfur.
And, of course the UN has told the US that Iraq is our problem. We refused to allow them to get involved in the beginning. Now, do we want to have the UN come in and clean up the mess we have made? I don’t blame the UN for saying, “you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you made”.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:26 pm#129 - Hello CT.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:27 pmReally, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we’ll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren’t eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan
Wow CT, you change names as often as that idiot Mr. P. Doesn’t matter when you post the same stupid stuff under each of your names.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:28 pmEasy now jack, I can smell the dirty steam from here (hint: I know this is true or you wouldnt have responded, you know it and I know it). :-)
You must be under the assumption that IAVA represents all ME vets. Are you really that stupid or or…I cringe at the alternatives.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pm#129 - Hello CT.
Comment by Zooey — July 24, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Kind of like Seinfeld says “Hello, Newman.”
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pmSay, would you have one of those special troll-hair combs I could use?
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pm———————————————–
No. But sleep is good for troll-hair’s sheen.
Yesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Aw, shucks, r, now. I am redder then Bashful in a nudist colony.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pmYesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r
Thing r, satire requires a certain amount of intellect. I’m afraid the secret escapes you.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:31 pmStarhopper: “Jack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you? The post I responded to stated that republicans are always sending the military out somewhere, as if dems dont do the same thing.
Pretty easily refuted, the biggest example being Vietnam.
BTW, do you think its republicans or democrats who splash paint on recruiting offices or refer to the troops as (insert slur here)?”
OK, question for you: how many of the 55,000 dead Americans in Viet Nam died AFTER Nixon got elected by promising to end the war?
Bonus question: what helps troops more? A good congressional voting record supporting troops or spurious rhetoric about thowing paint on recruiting offices?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pmIll remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities.
Comment by StarHopper
Are you implying that the right to carry a concealed weapon is guaranteed in the constitution?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pmStarhopper: “You must be under the assumption that IAVA represents all ME vets. Are you really that stupid or or…I cringe at the alternatives.”
I never said they represented “all ME vets.” Nobody does. What I said was that they rated lawmakers as per their voting records supporting the troops. They are a non-partisan organization. I invite anyone to go check out their backgrounds and their grading criteria. Just google on IAVA to get to their site and find out for yourselves.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:34 pmI don’t blame the UN for saying, “you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you madeâ€.
Yeah right. They showed up, proclaimed themselves untouchable, refused military protection and then got blown to ashes by a suicide bomber.
Soon after they ran like scalded dogs and did their best to beat their own shadows out of the country. Damm you guys are stupid.
These liberal troll here at TP are REALLY getting on my nerves, when are they going to get cleaned out?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pmTroy Malerta, the Bush administration defied the U.N. with their invasion of Iraq which the U.N. did not support. Remember, it was U.N. weapons inspector Hanse Blix who tried to tell us before the invasion that there was no evidence that Hussein had WMD’s. In addition, the war authorization act called for Bush to let the U.N. inspections run their course and invade as a last resort. Bush instead kicked the inspectors out and attacked. Now, why should the U.N. go along with lawless activity like that?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmOK, question for you: how many of the 55,000 dead Americans in Viet Nam died AFTER Nixon got elected by promising to end the war?
Ummm…who started the war? D or R? The original point I was answering, you are able to contextualize this are you not? I would suggest referring back to the post I responded to and then try again, and no, you dont have to pay me for assisting you.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmI don’t blame the UN for saying, “you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you madeâ€.
Yeah right. They showed up, proclaimed themselves untouchable, refused military protection and then got blown to ashes by a suicide bomber.
Soon after they ran like scalded dogs and did their best to beat their own shadows out of the country. Damm you guys are stupid.
These liberal troll here at TP are (Shouldn’t this be is?) REALLY getting on my nerves, when are they going to get cleaned out?
Comment by Troy Malerta — July 24, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmAnd, as noted previously, all the troll chickenhawks are the same: too old or too infirm to serve, but always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with. Some things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else’s kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
Comment by gummitch
This is the one constant in all their arguments. They are all unable to serve. Mr. P is the only one who admits he just doesn’t want to go. Of course it would be hard to walk away from that stellar community college education he’s getting. They might not have a place for him when he got back, haha.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:40 pm[…]including the first Gulf War and unless the nation is in a dire emergency, I feel I have given my due.
So instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
Starhopper, I do respect your service, and if you are unable to serve for legitimate medical reasons, then so be it. You should be for a DRAFT at least.
I would, however, argue that if you think this country is in REAL DANGER that requires our presence in Iraq AND we do not have sufficient troops to complete the mission, which soldiers being deployed 3-4 and more times in 4 years is evidence of, then we ARE IN A DIRE EMERGENCY. Even top military commanders have said that we don’t have the troops and our military is at the “breaking point”.
As for me and the rest of the Liberals, we don’t believe that Iraq is essential. In fact, we believe that our involvement in Iraq has made us LESS SECURE and is ENDANGERING AMERICA. Therefore, it is our duty as patriotic Americans to speak out and get our voices heard. In fact, preventing the destruction of the constitution is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing we can do.
By the way, you wouldn’t have to go to boot camp again unless you switched from one service to the Marine Corps. In fact, you would probably keep you rank. I re-signed after being out for 3 years.
The reason I asked the question is because there are several people that I have talked to that say that fighting in Iraq is keeping the USA safe and is detrimental to the future of America. Many of these (most) are mid 20s - 30s who are perfectly fit.
So - to recap, if you think Iraq is detrimental to the survival of the USA and you are of military age (mid 20s - 30s) you should be fighting for it. Then the late 30s people, military personnel that have been there multiple times,injured soldiers, etc would not have to be sent back to Iraq. Anything less means that - no matter what you say - you do not think this country is worth fighting for.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:42 pmStarhopper: “Ummm…who started the war? D or R?”
Answer: R
Our presence began during the Eisenhower administration in 1957. Before leaving office, the Eisenhower administration committed more troops and advisors. By the time he was murdered, JFK was actively seeking ways to get troops out of the country. Yes, LBJ fell for the military’s Gulf of Tonkin scam and committed, but if you remember, he resigned a few years later out of honor for having made such a terrible decision.
Oh, and could you bring yourself to post an argument without adding a snarky personal dig?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pmSo instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
Comment by StarHopper
Progressives don’t support the WAR and don’t think the troops should be there. We do support the TROOPS but want them home and unharmed. Why would we want to fight a war we don’t believe in? Talk to the trolls who support the war like you do and ask them why they’re not fighting.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pmNow, why should the U.N. go along with lawless activity like that?
Irrelevant, you fool.
We dont need a U.N. mandate to conduct military activity, witness Clinton’s attack against Serbia which had no U.N. ‘permission’. No one else needs a mandate either, as the French showed when they sent troops to the Congo a few years back.
But of course that didnt stop the U.N. from getting involved in Iraq after the war was essentially over, wanting to do the overseeing and defacto running of the country without getting their hands dirty with military force.
Then the bomber showed up, killed a few dozen fools who thought they were too special to be targeted by muslim savages (because the U.N. really really likes muslims) and the mighty U.N. ran away to hide.
You idiots are so busy bowing to the corrupt animals that inhabit the circus known as the U.N. that you forgot how to be Americans.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:45 pmWhat branch of the military is Chelsea Clinton currently serving in?
What unit, what ship, what squadron is she assigned to? This is important because her mother voted to send other people’s kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home.
Ill wait while you dig up this information. You dont have to get it down to the company or naval division level, just the ship or battalion would be fine.
Comment by StarHopper
What branch are the Bush twins in. Chelsea has an impressive college education with degrees and an impressive resume to protect.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:46 pmAnd here daddy didn’t send us to war and mommy is not president.
You trolls are the most pathetic hypocrites on earth. All the Bush twins have are dui’s and I don’t think they would lose any edge going to fight daddy’s war.
Oh, and could you bring yourself to post an argument without adding a snarky personal dig?
If you’re going to act like a knowitall, at least get your facts straight.
-Jack-
Evidently, it’s given him the vapors and we’ll have to call off the cotillion.
-Jack-
Sure thing jack, sure thing.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:50 pmThe US military focuses on areas where they are attacked? Who’d of thought! Ridiculous! ;)
July 24th, 2007 at 6:52 pmTroy Malerta: “Irrelevant, you fool.
We dont need a U.N. mandate to conduct military activity, witness Clinton’s attack against Serbia which had no U.N. ‘permission’.”
Poor Troy. He calls other people “fool,” but doesn’t seem to know that the war in Serbia was a NATO issue, not a U.N. issue. And, he doesn’t seem to understand that treaty obligations are treated as U.S. federal law under our consitution. As a member of NATO, we were required to enter the fray under our NATO treaty obligations. Troy, here’s a suggestion: don’t toss the word “fool” around unless you’re pretty certain you’re not going to be made fool of.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:54 pmChelsea has an impressive college education with degrees and an impressive resume to protect.
And here daddy didn’t send us to war and mommy is not president.
Sooooo, since she has an education and an…uhh…”impressive resume” she shouldnt have to serve? Youre serious? What constitutes an impressive resume and why is that supposed to be worth something?
Her president daddy sent other people’s kids off to war, or were you born yesterday and are unaware of that?
Before you randomly choose a post to attack, you might want to put it in context. And no, Im not going to do it for you, Im tired enough as it is propping up Jack.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pmI didn’t mean to start this who should send who to war. I am simply sick of people saying that this war is essential but only a select few should sacrifice (and sacrifice everything) for it.
It isn’t about sending your kids, it is about standing up for what YOU believe in. It isn’t about whether you liked Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton, It IS about our current situation and how we are more vulnerable and LESS safe than before.
It is about how we had empathy and good will from some Arab nations after 9/11 (even a few that we were not friendly with) and have squandered it.
It is about trying to re-define torture and lowering the bar for moral standards. I don’t care if our enemies torture - we should be setting the example.
How can we support democracy in Iraq when the Iraqis want us out? Who is the dictator? How do we export freedom when we don’t practice it here? Ask Adam Kokesh about freedom (that he fought for). We need to stand up and be a leader - not the bully of the world. I want to be proud and show the world how to act, not tell them “Do as I say, not as I do”.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:58 pmStarhopper, at least I’m capable of posting without a snarky remark. Here’s a sampling of your work here today:
“Are you really that stupid or or…I cringe at the alternatives.â€
“Jack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you?”
“you dont have to pay me for assisting you.”
“Settle down jack, youre getting a bit frothy around the edges. ”
“Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.”
“You must be a piss-soaked troll.”
All brought to us by the sensible, level-headed conservative known as “Starhopper.”
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pmComment by shane — July 24, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
Why do you talk so damn stupid?
Really, “impressive resume???”
You’re so fukcing stupid.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pmBefore you randomly choose a post to attack, you might want to put it in context. And no, Im not going to do it for you, Im tired enough as it is propping up Jack.
Comment by StarHopper
Let me simplify this for you. I haven’t heard Chelsea support the war and I think a volunteer military should be staffed by supporters of the war.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pm