‘Mutilated,’ ‘Tortured,’ And ‘Unidentified Bodies’ In Baghdad Rise To ‘Pre-Surge Levels’
‘Mutilated,’ ‘Tortured,’ And ‘Unidentified Bodies’ In Baghdad Rise To ‘Pre-Surge Levels’
In an attempt to buy more time for his escalation, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said recently that “Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq was just now hitting its stride and was showing some gains in tamping down sectarian violence in Baghdad.”
Most recently, some military officials alleged that “half of Baghdad is now under control” due to the escalation. “I see progress, a steady progress, in every neighborhood that we’ve cleared and then established a full-time presence,” said Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil, Jr., commander of Multi-National Division Baghdad.
But a new report from IraqSlogger reveals that the U.S. presence in Baghdad has shown virtually no progress in stemming the gruesome sectarian death squads pervading the capital. Between June 18 and July 18, “[u]p to 592 unidentified bodies were found dumped in different parts of Baghdad“:
Most of the bodies found by the police — an average of 20 a day — are bound, blindfolded and shot execution style, victims of sectarian violence carried out by both Sunni and Shi’ite death squads. Many also bear signs of torture or mutilation, according to medical sources in Baghdad. Despite official Iraqi and U.S. statements to the contrary, the reports indicate that the number of unidentified bodies in the capital has risen again to pre-surge levels over the last two months.
The report also gives credence to the futility of the escalation, reporting that U.S. troops have largely ignored these violent areas. “Media reports indicate that the U.S. military usually focuses on districts where they are attacked — such as the Sunni districts of Adhamiya, Jami’a and Khadhraa’ — rather than districts witnessing gruesome sectarian reprisal killings.”
Just this morning, the President claimed, “no enemy in Iraq is more ruthless than al Qaeda.” Actually, there are several.
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257 Responses to “‘Mutilated,’ ‘Tortured,’ And ‘Unidentified Bodies’ In Baghdad Rise To ‘Pre-Surge Levels’”
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George W. Bush was heard to say, "Who cares? Where's my oil? Heh heh."
July 24th, 2007 at 4:53 pmMore on the surge here:
In the Wake of the Surge...
July 24th, 2007 at 4:54 pmhttp://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
Still waiting for a PNAC, Rape-Public-Can, AIPAC necon fake American troll to point out where in our Constitution that we export democracy at the barrell of a gun?
Water keeps getting heavier.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:56 pmAhhh, like the old times, Negroponte.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIt looks like the Sunnis are getting liquidated.
At least Bush can now add genocide to his list of accomplishments.
-GSD
July 24th, 2007 at 4:58 pmAt least Bush can now add genocide to his list of accomplishments.
-GSD
Comment by GSD
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Actually, if the Dems get their way and we retreat from Iraq it's the Left that will be able to add genocide to their list of accomplishments....again.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pmis anyone surprised that the administration and most of the media is not talking about this?
They'll bring up a few negatives as far as they absolutely have to, in order to keep up the appearances of being "honest" - but when it comes to the real horrors of war, they simply ignore it.
Destruction, mutilation and killing - it continues every single day.
This war holds some very serious moral and legal implications for all those involved.
Some reading:
"Collateral Damage is Murder"
July 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/collateral_damage_is_murder
that will be able to add genocide to their list of accomplishments….again.
Comment by Ringo
Oh, ... that again, really hurt me because you are a very informed poster. /sarc
July 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pmGods! this makes me sick.
Just LOOK at what the Boy Emperor has done in our name.
I wonder if the World Court can have it's way with King George? He has to be added to the list of war criminals who MUST be made to stand trial for his crimes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:03 pmMore blood on Bush's hands and the hands of his sycophantic GOP who continue to enable him. Can't imagine the degree of karmic payback he's due to receive - whoa!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:03 pm#9 thankfully, THE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:04 pm"Media reports indicate that the U.S. military usually focuses on districts where they are attacked — such as the Sunni districts of Adhamiya, Jami’a and Khadhraa’ — rather than districts witnessing gruesome sectarian reprisal killings.â€
Do you really think that the US cares what happens to the people of Iraq? If you do, you are seriously deluded. And even if they were going into those areas and cleaning them up, as soon as they leave, they will go right back to the way they were before. Think about how we go out every day looking for IED's along the side of the road and then go back to the base at night while the insurgents go back to that road to put new IED's down.
There is no way to "win" an occupation. There is no way we can win being in the middle of a Civil War. We won the war a long time ago. Now we are losing the occupation, and deservedly so. We have no right to occupy Iraq and we have no right to steal their oil.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmstopthecons: Yes, no matter how you dice it, "collateral damage" IS murder. Engaging our troops in a known civil war whose genesis was an illegal invasion of a sovereign country based on lies and manipulated intelligence is also murder. Can't wait for that class action suit against Bush to begin.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pm#11 - Don't tease me. I wish it were so. Or even if the Hague was gathering evidence, do they have enough power to enforce appropriate legal action?
Anyone who supports Frat-Boy George should be just as guilty as He Who Is The Decider.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmITMFAs NOW!!!
You can't retreat from an undeclared enemy. Terrorism is a tactic. You can't retreat from a tactic.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pmSpudge: That was good and so accurate. This single moronic troll actually believes that people think he's more than one? Amazing how stupid and delusional some people can be.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmU.S. trained death squads no doubt.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmGood thing the Coalition is there, because if they weren't this would be an all out genocide. Just like Rwanda... you know... where Bill Clinton let nearly 1 million Tutsis die.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmRingo, it must sucks to you that Michael Moore has been right all the way since the Academy Awards...
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pmbilbobaggins,
I care about the people of Iraq.
Please read: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
July 24th, 2007 at 5:07 pm"#9 thankfully, THE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
Comment by veritas"
I really hope this is true. I would even be willing to give up impeaching them if I knew that they would be tried before the Hague. If they are convicted through the Hague, they will go to prison and no President can pardon them! That would be just and fitting justice.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:08 pmA war crimes tribunal at the Hague will follow his immediate departure from office. Count on it. Germany already has weighed in on Rumsfeld for the same crimes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:08 pmSo what we need to do is immediately exit Iraq so all the killers can get back to their regular jobs at orphanages, flower shops and social centers. Without American troops to hunt them down, the murderers would naturally cease their slaughterous ways and shake hands.
Great logic, I know it worked in Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, Yugoslavia, etc.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmLet's do some investigative work here, buddies.....let's put out feelers and check into what's going on at the Hague vis-a-vis the war crimes of these thugs. Let's share it with each other.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmhuh?
Comment by Thrasymachos
--------------------------------------------
They're delusional.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmveritas: any proof on that Hague thingy?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pmWhat's this: Village idiot troll changes name with each post now? I believe Mr. Pee is having a meltdown and this will definitely not be cute. Go get that fake, Spudge and eviscerate him.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pmTHE HAGUE is watching closely and gathering their evidence against every member of the Bush Cabal. Thank goodness.
Comment by veritas — July 24, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm--------
huh?
Germany already has weighed in on Rumsfeld for the same crimes.
Comment by veritas
------------------------------------------------
And a German judge tossed it out of court.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm"Good thing the Coalition is there, because if they weren’t this would be an all out genocide. Just like Rwanda… you know… where Bill Clinton let nearly 1 million Tutsis die."
Please, describe this "coalition" to me. How many countries are there now? How many people are represented by these countries.
And talk about ignoring genocide, what about Bush ignoring Darfur?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmAny troll with nothing better to do, aka "a real life", who sits and posts at TP all day long is definitely a whacko!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmGreat logic, I know it worked in Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, Yugoslavia, etc.
Comment by StarHopper
Well, it would have worked if G-8 hadnt sold weaponry to potential genociders...but lets forget about that and just say that there are good guys and bad guys. Simple!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmThey’re delusional.
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm-------------------------------------------------------
I know! It's kind of funny, :) yet sad. :(
This means the surge is working right? Isn't that what we were told to expect. More death=freedom on the march!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmAnd talk about ignoring genocide, what about Bush ignoring Darfur?
Comment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:12 pm----------------------
The U.N. is already on that.
What is sad is you posting to yourself.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:13 pmRingo you are simply wrong to think that the blame will lay on anyone other than the Bush administration for Iraq. Your earlier link showed another side of Iraq. An Iraq that we all need to see more of but don't deny the thread as well. There has been sectarian strife and killings going on and they will continue to go on. Ignoring this, missmanaging this and then gatting upset when it's pointed out to the very people we look to to guide us thru what they started is just wrong.
Don't you ever look at why the other side has the view they do. Push out the Michael Wiener Savage and Bill O'Rielly thoughts and look at the eroding freedoms in this country and the missmanagement of the conflict in Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 pmIts a civil war so we need to get out of the way.
The occupation is fueling the civil war.
The civil war is a result of 1000 years of religious animosity.
We care about the Iraqi people so we will leave them to their civil war.
Whoooooooooo, when libs talk, logic just hides in a corner.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 pmComment by whiteyfresh — July 24, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
Hey whitey,
I was just thinking I hadn't seen you for a while, and here you are.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pmHow are you?
Funny thing invading countries...
First invent some crap that scares the sh*t off losers and invade.
Then get the resources of that country (Columbia = drugs, Afghanistan =pipelines and opium, Iraq = oil, Grenada...well, that was just for fun)
Then say you cant leave because things will be much more worse.
That way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pmYo like how the trolls use the UN as a crutch when they don't want to help and then turn around and say the UN is quaint when it isn't doing what they want?
Make up your fu*king mind trolls.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:17 pmThat way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
Comment by Juan C
That sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pmFreedom is on the march!
(snark)
July 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pmSo, is it safe to say that the Iraqis are greeting each other as liberators?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:19 pmThrasymachos,
I'd be willing to go with $3 if that's all you got.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:19 pmFreedom is on the march!
(snark)
Comment by Damian
Yeah, freedom from the bother of breathing and everyday life.
/sarcasm
I hope no other country sees our predicament with the King, and decides to "free" us.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pmWell, it would have worked if G-8 hadnt sold weaponry to potential genociders…but lets forget about that and just say that there are good guys and bad guys. Simple!
We sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
Or are you talking about the communist-bloc AK-47's which Cambodia used to slaughter their own?
Or maybe you were referring to the Russian tanks and helicopters that the Serbians used during their genocide?
You want simple, qualify your own post as simple-minded. Ignoring the slaughter by saying "yeah but the west sells weapons" is dopey. And you know it.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pmThat sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
Comment by Zooey
You know what, Zoo? Im gonna break into a house. When police catches me, I will say that it was a good thing what I did, becuz otherwise the house could be robbed for who knows else. We cant let that.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:21 pmhellinabucket,
I don't listen to Savage and I have no use for O'Rielly (or Limbaugh)....But I will take your advise and try to be more gloomy and pessimistic from now on. And I'll try to remember that when a Sunni tortures his Shiite neighbor to death it's always George Bush's fault.
Thanks.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:22 pmI care about the people of Iraq.
Please read: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I am glad to hear about good news - but that is not proof that the "surge" is working. As soon as they leave, or they make a mistake, or a new unit moves in, things will shift.
The area I was in was a ton better by the time we left (only after losing 13-14 percent to casualties or KIAs) which was pretty good for the ground we covered and area we were in; however, the Army moved in - different tactics with different results. The area is worse than when we were there. The to make things worse, an Army soldier raped an Iraqi girl and killed her family. The Iraqis don't care that it was one soldier - as far as their concerned, it is ALL Americans.
You want more? One of my Marines went back to a different area in Iraq and when I talked to him (at the funeral of a good friend who left an empty seat at the head table of my wedding) said that things were even worse than our area - AND- "For every friend, we make six enemies". He would have volunteered to go back and help his fellow Marines; however, he is not physically qualified after being injured in an IED attack.
Ringo, your post of a blog is very uplifting and I am glad that not ALL Iraqis hate us, but the longer we stay the more likely we will turn more of them. We are still not putting time, energy, or money into reconstruction - jobs go to contractors for 20 times or more than the cost an Iraqi can do it for. In the mean time, this administration is using fear from the Iraq occupation to dissolve the constitution and strip our rights. When will you see the light? When GW refuses to relinquish power in 08? Or maybe if he does, you will finally jump on board after 10-15 years of OTHER PEOPLE fighting AND DYING for YOU and we have an unmanageable debt that causes our government to cut back on services for OUR people.
I just ask that you look at ALL the information, not just the stuff that confirms what you WANT to believe.
By the way, are you going to sign up to help our troops and give them the rest they need Or are you already in and will be returning soon?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:23 pmJuan C,
Dang...You're even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:23 pmWe sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:24 pm...
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
------------------------
Actually, that was the French.
It's time for strategic air bombings to show the slaughtering masses who's boss.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThe war was briliantly fought and well won. The occupation was a total bust. The administration failed to prepare and that led to the obscene civil war thats tearing Iraq apart right now. We won the war, but we failed as conquerors, or liberators or whatever word anybody wants to use. George H. Bush, despite anything else, had the wisdom not to depose Sadaam. I thought that was a criminal waste at the time. Seeing what happened now convinces me that he was right, no matter how it disturbs me to admit that. The shattered hulk that once was Iraq is a monument to George W. Bush. Regrettably its also a monument to the United States, because we let it happen.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThat way we could be invading every country and never leave. Hehehehe.
Comment by Juan C
That sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
You must be a piss-soaked troll. Why did we invade the Balkans, why are we still there eight years later?
Must be a secret oil pipeline out there somewhere.
BTW, you libs really really really need to get your talking points straight. You cant denounce the Afghan war while simaltaneously supporting it...not good election strategy.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pmWe sold the weaponry to the Hutus? You mean the machetes which killed 75% of the victims?
Yeah, machetes. You make genocides with machetes. You are bright. Never mind all the choppers and tanks there.
Cambodia...greatest mined country in the world. Wanna guess whose those mines?
The KLA militia was trained and supported by CIA, buddy.
Better luck next time, trying to debunk facts. And I say G-8.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — July 24, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Good blessings, spudge. Thank you for your military service and firm insights.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pmIt is pretty funny that Mr. Pee / CT_V1 / Ringo / PiP / Thrasymachos / etc., etc., etc. continues to troll under all of these different names. Since he/she has so many "personalities" I think a more appropriate name for him/her is Sybil.
Obviously, as stated by others, he/she has no "real life" and no friends since he/she spends all day trolling here. What a loser!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pmI doubt you can be more gloomy than you already are Ringo and that's not what I had suggested to you. I suggested you open your eyes and see what the substance is that goes against this administration.
you have the right to not decide for yourself. I have the right to stand up to wrong decisions and to search for the truth.
DanCaveman, wonderful and heartfelt post. Thank you for your service to OUR country.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:28 pmThat sort of logic escapes the piss-soaked trolls.
Dang girl! you're firey today!
I'm doing fine.Just got back from Transformus(look it up online!)
4 day music and art festival.
In the Mountains of NC.
with 1200 other people.
a 5 story wooden effigy we burned.
and optional clothing.
twas a good time, had by all.
:D
I wanna go back!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmJuan,
Yep. Machetes.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmhttp://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/genocide_in_rwanda.htm
Why did we invade the Balkans, why are we still there eight years later?
Putin is pretty pissed about that. NATO broke his word given by Reagan to Gorbachov with the promise that it will not expand further east. mmmm...the West broke its word. Thats really unlikely. Heh.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmComment by King George the Dumber — July 24, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
Look who's whining. And what previous name did you fall under?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pmHear that Ringo? You cant support military action anywhere unless you serve, DFL Rule Book page 14.
Can I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:30 pmDang…You’re even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
Comment by Ringo
Coming from an idiot who couldnt answer a direct question about nuclear power a month ago, but instead was ranting about like he had a clue...its ok.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:31 pmStarHopper:
You seem to be concerned about genocide. Well, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:31 pmRingo: "And I’ll try to remember that when a Sunni tortures his Shiite neighbor to death it’s always George Bush’s fault."
Good, because if Bush had never become president, none of this would be happening now. There were, at best, 20 to 30 anecdotal stories of Saddam's Baath party torturing people. They were horrible. But what they did to their people was nothing compared to what Bush has created in Iraq. The only think preventing civil war was a ruthless dictator. The only thing preventing a Shiite arc across the middle east was a ruthless dictator. Osama bin Laden wanted the "secular dictator" removed from power. Bush did Osama's bidding and the rest is the sorry history of how Bush has ruined any chance for peace in the middle east.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmI just ask that you look at ALL the information, not just the stuff that confirms what you WANT to believe.
Comment by DanCaveman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do read Thinkprogress everyday.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, are you going to sign up to help our troops and give them the rest they need Or are you already in and will be returning soon?
Comment by DanCaveman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was young enough to join the military I was a moonbat Lefty. Now I'm in my mid forties.
I do however send care packages to the troops and I've donated cash to a number of charities to help the children of Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmCan I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
It's just that it takes a lot of credibility out of your argument if you are able to serve in an occupation you feel is so important, yet don't.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:32 pmWell, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
Comment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:33 pm---------------------------------
The U.N. is on that with troops from many nations.
Dang…You’re even dumber than the real Jaun Cole.
Comment by Ringo
Don't be offended. It's not like he said you were dumber than Sean Hannity!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:34 pm#54,
Why strategic bombing, why not carpet bombing?
I believe yours was satire - mine too. I got a lesson in that yesterday.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:34 pmAnd now, phony crocodile tears are being shed by sociopathic Bush worshippers about "genocide." Give me a frickin break. When Clinton was using U.S. troops to prevent genocide in Bosnia, you people were screaming that he was just trying to change the subject from the much more important issue of blowjobs.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pmComment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Watch what you say, r.
The libs are a ruthless bunch!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pmCareful there thras, juan is into revisionist history and youre spoiling his gig.
The west broke its 'word' (whatever the hell that means) to stop a genocide that no one else was willing to, I would think the sensitive libs who cry rivers over the fate of Iraqi muslims would also have the same heartfelt feelings for the Kosovar muslims. Guess not.
Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:36 pmStarhopper: "Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching."
If you a-holes had as much respect for the consitution as you say you do for flags, we'd be in a lot better shape as a country.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:38 pmYou seem to be concerned about genocide. Well, what do you think about Bush ignoring the genocide that is going on in Darfur right now?
I think we should either send in the military or ally with regional nations to kick the living shat out of the Janjaweed savages. I wish Bush would do that though the lefty reaction would be oh so predictable, minus Biden of course, the only adult at last nights CNN debate.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pm#68. Good post Col. That's one of the "other views" I was suggesting to Ringo.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pmComment by Martha Stewart — July 24, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Your constant repeat of the lefty talking point is akin to saying the following: "Don't call the police if you plan not to join the force."
Really, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we'll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren't eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pmCareful there thras, juan is into revisionist history and youre spoiling his gig.
...
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm-------------------------------------------
Oh, I see... he's a post-modern liberal!
I stand corrected: Most of them were killed with Machetes and some rifles.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pmStarHopper---- banging Star Jones is nothing to brag about.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm#71
Yesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pmIf you a-holes had as much respect for the consitution as you say you do for flags, we’d be in a lot better shape as a country.
Ill remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:41 pmReally, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we’ll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren’t eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
Personally, I find you less credible.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pmJuan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching.
Comment by StarHopper
Huh??? Whatever.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pmIs there any common sense Liberals in the world or do we have to sit and read this out of touch, insensitive minutia drivel that liberals constantly pour out with the foul-mouthed language associated with it?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThat is a serious question for any left winged person that adds comments to this page or any blog that posts opinions on the internet.
Is this all satirical or is this policy debate or what?
Now everyone read the intelligent responses to this inquiry!
StarHopper, when attempting to get a conceal/carry permit don't forget about the child molestation charges and felonies against you as well. Those little obstacles might also stop you from getting your "manhood"
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmStarHopper—- banging Star Jones is nothing to brag about.
Dont knock it till you try it. Lovin is lovin.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmI suppose we should leave the war planning in this country to the most liberal academic departments in the U.S. In that case, we'd have a predetermined winner, and it wouldn't be the U.S.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:44 pmStarHopper, the KLA killing two thousand people in a variety of regions is not what you called genocide.
But, again, you must still believe there are WMDs near Tikrit.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:45 pmStarhopper: "Ill remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities."
OK, so there's one part of the constitution you seem to value, even though you clearly have forgotten the first part of the most important sentence in that amendment. But, if you're so concerned about the Second Amendment, why aren't you concerned with separation of powers, meeting treaty obligations, the first, fourth and 14th amendments and the honesty of the executive branch in dealing with the legislative branch? Are you that selective in your appreciation for our constitution?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmHear that Ringo? You cant support military action anywhere unless you serve, DFL Rule Book page 14.
Can I support military action if Im a vet or do I have to be a combat vet who was actually in Iraq? Can senior citizens support it? What about teenagers, disabled people or those who are considered 4-F?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
No StarHopper, let me try to explain this to you. You can support a war if you haven't served when the military is not exhausted and ripping at the seems. When the military personnel, that are more than happy to give their lives for this country, are getting more time to see their family than they are spending in constant combat. However, if you support a war that you consider essential to this country, and our military is being grinded down, THEN NO you can not support the war unless:
1. You think that this country is not worth fighting for OR
2. You are a coward that will not fight for the principles that you value.
At the very least, you should be supporting a draft so that the military has the man power to do what YOU want them to do. Why do you think the American people have not been asked to sacrifice? Do you know how insulting it is when vets come home and some don't even give the war a second thought and they are being sent out again and again? I still have not heard a good reason why people who support this war (and are eligible for military service) haven't signed up. In fact, I the question is dodged EVERY TIME. Give me an alternative to 1 or 2.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmComment by John Cook — July 24, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Apparently, according to Zooey, Walt the Man, and mikey r, it is all satire. But I don't buy it.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmevery one would be a winner and we'd go out for ice cream after.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pmStarHopper, when attempting to get a conceal/carry permit don’t forget about the child molestation charges and felonies against you as well. Those little obstacles might also stop you from getting your “manhoodâ€
Oh man, you are so clever and funny! Can I send this post out to my online clan so they can laugh too?
No wait, Im sending this to Leno and maybe you can get a gig on the Tonite Show...whew...my sides hurt!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pm"The U.N. is on that with troops from many nations.
Comment by Thrasymachos"
Oh, I see, so that's the excuse for the Bush Administration ignoring what is happening in Darfur. He is willing to put us into debt to the tune of billions of dollars a month to make his friends rich in Iraq, but he can't seem to find any way to help the people in Darfur.
Also, I'd be willing to bet that you are one of those that bashes the UN and wishes that we would get out. But, when you find it convenient, you use the UN as an excuse for Bush's inaction.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:47 pmJohn Cook, by all means, start a legitimate policy debate. But please have your facts straight.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pm#91. Who did you leave it to the last time because it wasn't the military's brightest. Oh that's right, it was formed by the PNAC boys of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others. Just look at the wonderful job they did.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pmWhen I was young enough to join the military I was a moonbat Lefty. Now I’m in my mid forties.
I do however send care packages to the troops and I’ve donated cash to a number of charities to help the children of Iraq.
Comment by Ringo — July 24, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
They are accepting people up to 43 now in the military and have been for a couple of years. So if you are older than 46 then its such a shame that you missed out on all the "fun" in Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:49 pmHey John Cook! You wanted a legitimate policy debate. Let's have it. I'm sure you have ideas. Bring them on... that is, unless you're just another bitter conservative whiner.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pmComment by bilbobaggins — July 24, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
No. I'm merely pointing out that the U.N. is handling the Darfur situation, which, of course the US cares about as well. Plus, the U.N. has basically said that Iraq is our responsibility, it's not that they don't care. Neither the U.N. nor the U.S. wants to see more meaningless killing.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pmThe retard you are addressing has already tried that excuse.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
They are accepting people up to 43 now in the military and have been for a couple of years. So if you are older than 46 then its such a shame that you missed out on all the “fun†in Iraq.
Comment by DanCaveman
And, as noted previously, all the troll chickenhawks are the same: too old or too infirm to serve, but always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with. Some things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else's kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pmI believe Mr. Pee is having a meltdown and this will definitely not be cute. Go get that fake, Spudge and eviscerate him.
Comment by veritas — July 24, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Spooky, Mr. P is having his meltdown at the same time President Bush is having his. And they both are delusional about their own intelligence. I wonder how many similarities the two really share.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:57 pmComment by hellinabucket — July 24, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Why you little.........
July 24th, 2007 at 5:58 pmSorry Dan but you dont get to set either the basis or the alternatives, its merely your opinion and nothing more.
I support this war because I feel it was the right thing to do for many reasons, just as I supported Clinton stopping the genocide in the Balkans while the feckless europeans gazed at the clouds.
Im a 41 year old veteran and presumably I could still enlist, though I doubt my construction-ravaged bod could handle bootcamp again. I have twelve years under my belt, including the first Gulf War and unless the nation is in a dire emergency, I feel I have given my due.
You want to cut-off at the knees anyone who supports this war and hasnt served, but youre not the only veteran who has a view of the conflict. Anecdotally I could mention my family and acquaintances who have been to the ME, but Im certain this wouldnt be good enough for you anyway, so why bother?
So instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:01 pmSome things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else’s kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
What branch of the military is Chelsea Clinton currently serving in?
What unit, what ship, what squadron is she assigned to? This is important because her mother voted to send other people's kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home.
Ill wait while you dig up this information. You dont have to get it down to the company or naval division level, just the ship or battalion would be fine.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:06 pmLast I checked, I haven't seen either Bush twins in BDUs, either.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pmbut always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with.
You must have been quite hysterical when Clinton sent young Americans to die in Serbia, considering that committing the military is so unlike the democrats.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pmComment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
I have that evidence
She served with the 3rd Academic Battalion, 6th Hippie Regiment, Stanford University.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:11 pmStarHopper: "Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?"
In the military, we take an oath to protect and defend the constitution. To support an illegal war, one in which consensus was built on lies, one which flies in the face of the constitution, is not to support the constitution or our system of laws. To support a lawless administration which trashes the constitution on a daily basis is the most unpatriotic thing an American can do. If you can't come to terms with the fact that this administration has been lying to the American people about the most important of issues, you owe more allegance to the leader than you do to the system. That is the definition of unpatriotic in this constitutional republic.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:11 pmLast I checked, I haven’t seen either Bush twins in BDUs, either.
Yeah, isnt that something, neither Bush nor Hillary(D-NY) have children in the military.
Kind of squashes the argument that only republicans are willing to send off 'other people's kids' to die.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:12 pmStarhopper: "This is important because her mother voted to send other people’s kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home."
That's not correct. Her mother voted for an authorization bill which gave the president the right to invade Iraq as a last possible alternative to weapons inspections and UN mandates. As part of the deal, Bush was supposed to provide, in writing, evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9-11 attack. If you're going to act like a knowitall, at least get your facts straight.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:13 pmShe served with the 3rd Academic Battalion, 6th Hippie Regiment, Stanford University.
I could have sworn she was part of the 'Children Of Priviledge' Honor Guard, their sole duty being the protection of the liberal intelligentsia who attend all the popular dinner parties.
I bow to your superior knowledge on this matter.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pmStarhopper: "Kind of squashes the argument that only republicans are willing to send off ‘other people’s kids’ to die."
Would you like to start comparing the number of Democratic veterans in congress to Repubs? You'll lose that game. Would you like to know which party the IAVA thinks supports the troops the best? You'll lose that one as well.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pmSettle down jack, youre getting a bit frothy around the edges.
I took the same oath you presumably did, I just choose not to see everything as a Bush/Rove conspiracy to create a monarchy and subjugate the world.
On this we will have to differ, or you could continue to lose your temper and Ill ignore you. I dont have much time for rants and flying spittle.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:18 pmThe return of Dead Bodies to presurge levels is evidence that the sectarian violence is back...and that the surge has just moved the problem to different areas of Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pmThe"good news" comes from neighborhoods with huge US Troop presence. This is Not sustainable, and the Iraqi Army isn't capable of taking over.
The Sunni shieks are turning against Al Qaeda, but they want us out of their country too. So do the Shiite's.
The surge was Bush's last hope. There are no more Military Options available.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
What's up, CT?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pmStarhopper, I know you don't want to let a silly thing like facts get in the way of your narrative, but Iraq and Afganistan Veterans of America rates lawmakers on their voting records supporting the troops.
Duncan Hunter: C; Dennis Hastert: F; John Cornyn: D-; Rick Santorum: D-; Norm Coleman: D.
By contrast, here are some grades for Democrats:
John Kerry: B; Ted Kennedy: B+; Nancy Pelosi: B+
Talk is cheap, Starhopper. Talk is cheap.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pmPoor Starhopper. He thinks I'm hoppin mad and it offends his delicate sensibilities. Evidently, it's given him the vapors and we'll have to call off the cotillion.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pmComment by Thrasymachos — July 24, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Mr. Macho, good evenin', sir.
Say, would you have one of those special troll-hair combs I could use?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pmYou know what, Zoo? Im gonna break into a house. When police catches me, I will say that it was a good thing what I did, becuz otherwise the house could be robbed for who knows else. We cant let that.
Comment by Juan C — July 24, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
You are so self-sacrificing, Juan. I'm sure the homeowner AND the police would appreciate you doing that. :D
July 24th, 2007 at 6:23 pm"I just choose not to see everything as a Bush/Rove conspiracy to create a monarchy and subjugate the world."
What do you suppose it would look like if they did try to do so?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
It ain't me....
It ain't me....
I ain't no senator's son.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmJack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you? The post I responded to stated that republicans are always sending the military out somewhere, as if dems dont do the same thing.
Pretty easily refuted, the biggest example being Vietnam.
BTW, do you think its republicans or democrats who splash paint on recruiting offices or refer to the troops as (insert slur here)?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmYesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
I still have that box of tissues, if you need them.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pmComment by Zooey — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
Why, hello Zoo....
....purrr.....
July 24th, 2007 at 6:25 pm"No. I’m merely pointing out that the U.N. is handling the Darfur situation, which, of course the US cares about as well."
And they care how? What has the Bush Administration done to show that they care one whit what is happening in Darfur.
And, of course the UN has told the US that Iraq is our problem. We refused to allow them to get involved in the beginning. Now, do we want to have the UN come in and clean up the mess we have made? I don't blame the UN for saying, "you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you made".
July 24th, 2007 at 6:26 pm#129 - Hello CT.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:27 pmReally, yours is an ineffective response. The all-volunteer forces will do their thing and we’ll choose to support them in many ways - and that includes people who choose not/aren’t eligible to enlist. That includes supporting the conflict so they can best complete their mission.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan
Wow CT, you change names as often as that idiot Mr. P. Doesn't matter when you post the same stupid stuff under each of your names.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:28 pmEasy now jack, I can smell the dirty steam from here (hint: I know this is true or you wouldnt have responded, you know it and I know it). :-)
You must be under the assumption that IAVA represents all ME vets. Are you really that stupid or or...I cringe at the alternatives.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pm#129 - Hello CT.
Comment by Zooey — July 24, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Kind of like Seinfeld says "Hello, Newman."
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pmSay, would you have one of those special troll-hair combs I could use?
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pm-----------------------------------------------
No. But sleep is good for troll-hair's sheen.
Yesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r — July 24, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Aw, shucks, r, now. I am redder then Bashful in a nudist colony.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:30 pmYesterday Zooey, and Walt the Man, and mikey r and several others taught me about how to be a good TPer. The secret is satire.
Comment by r
Thing r, satire requires a certain amount of intellect. I'm afraid the secret escapes you.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:31 pmStarhopper: "Jack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you? The post I responded to stated that republicans are always sending the military out somewhere, as if dems dont do the same thing.
Pretty easily refuted, the biggest example being Vietnam.
BTW, do you think its republicans or democrats who splash paint on recruiting offices or refer to the troops as (insert slur here)?"
OK, question for you: how many of the 55,000 dead Americans in Viet Nam died AFTER Nixon got elected by promising to end the war?
Bonus question: what helps troops more? A good congressional voting record supporting troops or spurious rhetoric about thowing paint on recruiting offices?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pmIll remember that next time I try to get a conceal-carry permit in San Francisco, New York City or Seattle. Hint: those are all liberal-controlled cities.
Comment by StarHopper
Are you implying that the right to carry a concealed weapon is guaranteed in the constitution?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pmStarhopper: "You must be under the assumption that IAVA represents all ME vets. Are you really that stupid or or…I cringe at the alternatives."
I never said they represented "all ME vets." Nobody does. What I said was that they rated lawmakers as per their voting records supporting the troops. They are a non-partisan organization. I invite anyone to go check out their backgrounds and their grading criteria. Just google on IAVA to get to their site and find out for yourselves.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:34 pmI don’t blame the UN for saying, “you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you madeâ€.
Yeah right. They showed up, proclaimed themselves untouchable, refused military protection and then got blown to ashes by a suicide bomber.
Soon after they ran like scalded dogs and did their best to beat their own shadows out of the country. Damm you guys are stupid.
These liberal troll here at TP are REALLY getting on my nerves, when are they going to get cleaned out?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pmTroy Malerta, the Bush administration defied the U.N. with their invasion of Iraq which the U.N. did not support. Remember, it was U.N. weapons inspector Hanse Blix who tried to tell us before the invasion that there was no evidence that Hussein had WMD's. In addition, the war authorization act called for Bush to let the U.N. inspections run their course and invade as a last resort. Bush instead kicked the inspectors out and attacked. Now, why should the U.N. go along with lawless activity like that?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmOK, question for you: how many of the 55,000 dead Americans in Viet Nam died AFTER Nixon got elected by promising to end the war?
Ummm...who started the war? D or R? The original point I was answering, you are able to contextualize this are you not? I would suggest referring back to the post I responded to and then try again, and no, you dont have to pay me for assisting you.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmI don’t blame the UN for saying, “you made the mess, now children, clean up the mess you madeâ€.
Yeah right. They showed up, proclaimed themselves untouchable, refused military protection and then got blown to ashes by a suicide bomber.
Soon after they ran like scalded dogs and did their best to beat their own shadows out of the country. Damm you guys are stupid.
These liberal troll here at TP are (Shouldn't this be is?) REALLY getting on my nerves, when are they going to get cleaned out?
Comment by Troy Malerta — July 24, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
July 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmAnd, as noted previously, all the troll chickenhawks are the same: too old or too infirm to serve, but always more than ready to send young Americans over to die for whatever wacko cause they come up with. Some things never change, especially Republics who are always ready to send someone else’s kids off to die but are always much too busy, too important or too old to go themselves.
Comment by gummitch
This is the one constant in all their arguments. They are all unable to serve. Mr. P is the only one who admits he just doesn't want to go. Of course it would be hard to walk away from that stellar community college education he's getting. They might not have a place for him when he got back, haha.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:40 pm[...]including the first Gulf War and unless the nation is in a dire emergency, I feel I have given my due.
So instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
Comment by StarHopper — July 24, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
Starhopper, I do respect your service, and if you are unable to serve for legitimate medical reasons, then so be it. You should be for a DRAFT at least.
I would, however, argue that if you think this country is in REAL DANGER that requires our presence in Iraq AND we do not have sufficient troops to complete the mission, which soldiers being deployed 3-4 and more times in 4 years is evidence of, then we ARE IN A DIRE EMERGENCY. Even top military commanders have said that we don't have the troops and our military is at the "breaking point".
As for me and the rest of the Liberals, we don't believe that Iraq is essential. In fact, we believe that our involvement in Iraq has made us LESS SECURE and is ENDANGERING AMERICA. Therefore, it is our duty as patriotic Americans to speak out and get our voices heard. In fact, preventing the destruction of the constitution is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing we can do.
By the way, you wouldn't have to go to boot camp again unless you switched from one service to the Marine Corps. In fact, you would probably keep you rank. I re-signed after being out for 3 years.
The reason I asked the question is because there are several people that I have talked to that say that fighting in Iraq is keeping the USA safe and is detrimental to the future of America. Many of these (most) are mid 20s - 30s who are perfectly fit.
So - to recap, if you think Iraq is detrimental to the survival of the USA and you are of military age (mid 20s - 30s) you should be fighting for it. Then the late 30s people, military personnel that have been there multiple times,injured soldiers, etc would not have to be sent back to Iraq. Anything less means that - no matter what you say - you do not think this country is worth fighting for.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:42 pmStarhopper: "Ummm…who started the war? D or R?"
Answer: R
Our presence began during the Eisenhower administration in 1957. Before leaving office, the Eisenhower administration committed more troops and advisors. By the time he was murdered, JFK was actively seeking ways to get troops out of the country. Yes, LBJ fell for the military's Gulf of Tonkin scam and committed, but if you remember, he resigned a few years later out of honor for having made such a terrible decision.
Oh, and could you bring yourself to post an argument without adding a snarky personal dig?
July 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pmSo instead Ill toss it off to all the liberals here who havent served, those who claim they are patriotic, troop-loving Americans. Why havent YOU given something back to the country, or are you simply fair-weather patriots and unwilling to stand the line yourselves?
Comment by StarHopper
Progressives don't support the WAR and don't think the troops should be there. We do support the TROOPS but want them home and unharmed. Why would we want to fight a war we don't believe in? Talk to the trolls who support the war like you do and ask them why they're not fighting.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pmNow, why should the U.N. go along with lawless activity like that?
Irrelevant, you fool.
We dont need a U.N. mandate to conduct military activity, witness Clinton's attack against Serbia which had no U.N. 'permission'. No one else needs a mandate either, as the French showed when they sent troops to the Congo a few years back.
But of course that didnt stop the U.N. from getting involved in Iraq after the war was essentially over, wanting to do the overseeing and defacto running of the country without getting their hands dirty with military force.
Then the bomber showed up, killed a few dozen fools who thought they were too special to be targeted by muslim savages (because the U.N. really really likes muslims) and the mighty U.N. ran away to hide.
You idiots are so busy bowing to the corrupt animals that inhabit the circus known as the U.N. that you forgot how to be Americans.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:45 pmWhat branch of the military is Chelsea Clinton currently serving in?
What unit, what ship, what squadron is she assigned to? This is important because her mother voted to send other people’s kids off to war while her own child presumably stayed at home.
Ill wait while you dig up this information. You dont have to get it down to the company or naval division level, just the ship or battalion would be fine.
Comment by StarHopper
What branch are the Bush twins in. Chelsea has an impressive college education with degrees and an impressive resume to protect.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:46 pmAnd here daddy didn't send us to war and mommy is not president.
You trolls are the most pathetic hypocrites on earth. All the Bush twins have are dui's and I don't think they would lose any edge going to fight daddy's war.
Oh, and could you bring yourself to post an argument without adding a snarky personal dig?
If you’re going to act like a knowitall, at least get your facts straight.
-Jack-
Evidently, it’s given him the vapors and we’ll have to call off the cotillion.
-Jack-
Sure thing jack, sure thing.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:50 pmThe US military focuses on areas where they are attacked? Who'd of thought! Ridiculous! ;)
July 24th, 2007 at 6:52 pmTroy Malerta: "Irrelevant, you fool.
We dont need a U.N. mandate to conduct military activity, witness Clinton’s attack against Serbia which had no U.N. ‘permission’."
Poor Troy. He calls other people "fool," but doesn't seem to know that the war in Serbia was a NATO issue, not a U.N. issue. And, he doesn't seem to understand that treaty obligations are treated as U.S. federal law under our consitution. As a member of NATO, we were required to enter the fray under our NATO treaty obligations. Troy, here's a suggestion: don't toss the word "fool" around unless you're pretty certain you're not going to be made fool of.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:54 pmChelsea has an impressive college education with degrees and an impressive resume to protect.
And here daddy didn’t send us to war and mommy is not president.
Sooooo, since she has an education and an...uhh..."impressive resume" she shouldnt have to serve? Youre serious? What constitutes an impressive resume and why is that supposed to be worth something?
Her president daddy sent other people's kids off to war, or were you born yesterday and are unaware of that?
Before you randomly choose a post to attack, you might want to put it in context. And no, Im not going to do it for you, Im tired enough as it is propping up Jack.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pmI didn't mean to start this who should send who to war. I am simply sick of people saying that this war is essential but only a select few should sacrifice (and sacrifice everything) for it.
It isn't about sending your kids, it is about standing up for what YOU believe in. It isn't about whether you liked Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton, It IS about our current situation and how we are more vulnerable and LESS safe than before.
It is about how we had empathy and good will from some Arab nations after 9/11 (even a few that we were not friendly with) and have squandered it.
It is about trying to re-define torture and lowering the bar for moral standards. I don't care if our enemies torture - we should be setting the example.
How can we support democracy in Iraq when the Iraqis want us out? Who is the dictator? How do we export freedom when we don't practice it here? Ask Adam Kokesh about freedom (that he fought for). We need to stand up and be a leader - not the bully of the world. I want to be proud and show the world how to act, not tell them "Do as I say, not as I do".
July 24th, 2007 at 6:58 pmStarhopper, at least I'm capable of posting without a snarky remark. Here's a sampling of your work here today:
"Are you really that stupid or or…I cringe at the alternatives.â€
"Jack, youre not too good at this debate thing, are you?"
"you dont have to pay me for assisting you."
"Settle down jack, youre getting a bit frothy around the edges. "
"Juan, I think I heard your doorbell, its the UPS guy bringing in a fresh load of U.S. flags for you to burn. Happy torching."
"You must be a piss-soaked troll."
All brought to us by the sensible, level-headed conservative known as "Starhopper."
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pmComment by shane — July 24, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
Why do you talk so damn stupid?
Really, "impressive resume???"
You're so fukcing stupid.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pmBefore you randomly choose a post to attack, you might want to put it in context. And no, Im not going to do it for you, Im tired enough as it is propping up Jack.
Comment by StarHopper
Let me simplify this for you. I haven't heard Chelsea support the war and I think a volunteer military should be staffed by supporters of the war.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:00 pmJack(off), are you retarded or something? That was the point, we went to war against Serbia without a U.N. mandate, something the current crop of brainless libs seem to believe was absolutely necessary before taking action in Iraq.
Fool.
Tarnation, if this is the best the dems can do, God help us if they take the WH. What a fracking circus you people are.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:01 pmCry a river jack, maybe you should try Teletubbies.com if you cant take a little heat, that site might be better suited for your delicate disposition. And Im supposed to trust the DFL to lead and defend this nation?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:03 pmStarhopper: "And no, Im not going to do it for you, Im tired enough as it is propping up Jack."
I'm still waiting for you to respond to my post asking you to compare the number of Democratic lawmakers who are veterans to the number of Republicans. And, did you get over to the IAVA site yet and find out how wrong you are about them?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:04 pmTroy Malerta: "Tarnation, if this is the best the dems can do, God help us if they take the WH. What a fracking circus you people are."
Tarnation???!!! What is this, the Beverly Hillbillies?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:05 pmComment by shane — July 24, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
".....an impressive resume to protect."
Only in the mind of this self-serving libecrat squid. Here's a pinch of advice: honorable military service doesn't exactly compromise any one's resume. It's a huge competitive plus. That's why veteran's should always receive preference for government and civilian employment over those who didn't serve. Yes, even over Oxford Chelsea.
What a fukcing stupid geyser...
July 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pmTroy, you've already proven that you don't know fact one about the Serbia thing so why don't you just quit while you're behind.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:07 pmLet me simplify this for you. I haven’t heard Chelsea support the war and I think a volunteer military should be staffed by supporters of the war.
No, you said Chelsea had her "impressive resume" to consider, while ignoring the fact that her daddy also sent other people's kids off to war.
The military doesnt work like that so you can think (if thats what you call it) anything you want, it doesnt mean youre any less naive or oblivious than you seemingly are.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:07 pm"......I think volunteer military should be staffed by supporters of the war."
Comment by shane — July 24, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
Uhhh....they voluntarily serve with the expectation of going to war. It kinda goes hand-in-hand.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:08 pmLefty Cat Scans: "That’s why veteran’s should always receive preference for government and civilian employment over those who didn’t serve."
I thought conservatives were deadset against preferences and thought everyone should stand on their own talents.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:09 pmSo how many of you brave liber, I mean "progressives" (hehehehe) are blogging from Tikrit? I mean you must have set up shop SOMEWHERE in Iraq to contribute to the cause of the Iraqi people you claim to love so very much, right?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:09 pmThat’s why veteran’s should always receive preference for government and civilian employment over those who didn’t serve.
Id like to see it go further, ala "Starship Troopers". Great book, if you havent read it, I highly recommend it.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:11 pmTarnation???!!! What is this, the Beverly Hillbillies?
You stupid bum, turn off the tv and get a job!
July 24th, 2007 at 7:13 pm“……I think volunteer military should be staffed by supporters of the war.â€
Comment by shane — July 24, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
Uhhh….they voluntarily serve with the expectation of going to war. It kinda goes hand-in-hand.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 24, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
What do we do when the "WAR" needs more soldiers?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:13 pmI thought conservatives were deadset against preferences and thought everyone should stand on their own talents.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 24, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Military service is the ultimate talent. That talent should receive weighted consideration.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:14 pmTarnation, Troy, try to get this through your thick skull. Most liberals don't support the illegal war of occupation in Iraq. Most liberals think our troops are being misused as pawns in a sick game of neocon world domination. So, tarnation no, boy, we ain't bloggin from Tikrit.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:14 pmTroy, you’ve already proven that you don’t know fact one about the Serbia thing so why don’t you just quit while you’re behind.
Did we or did we not conduct military action against Serbian units without a U.N. mandate, i.e. "permission"?
Educating you lib morons is getting to be a full-time job.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:16 pmTarnation Troy: "Id like to see it go further, ala “Starship Troopersâ€. Great book, if you havent read it, I highly recommend it."
Troy, according to the author himself, Heinlein wrote "Starship Troopers" as a testimonial to military fascism and it was meant as a book for teenage boys to read because it's thinking and philosophy was so simple-minded. Just thought you might need to know that before you go singing the books praises in mixed company and make a fool out of yourself.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:18 pmTarnation, Troy, try to get this through your thick skull. Most liberals don’t support the illegal war of occupation in Iraq. Most liberals think our troops are being misused as pawns in a sick game of neocon world domination.
Would that domination theory include Afghanistan?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:19 pmClue for ya jack, I dont care why Heinlein wrote it, I agree with the basis of the government he described.
Now go back to your comics, Archie.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:21 pmLefty Cat Scan: "Military service is the ultimate talent. That talent should receive weighted consideration."
Depends on the job, Lefty. Just because you're a veteran doesn't necessarily mean you're smarter or have more talent than the next guy. Don't kid yourself.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:22 pmTroy: "Clue for ya jack, I dont care why Heinlein wrote it, I agree with the basis of the government he described."
Fine, Troy. You agree that military fascism is a great way to run a country. Thanks for your input. Oh, you did take that oath about defending the Consitution, right? Just checking.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:26 pmSo? Tortured, mutilated, and unidentified bodies turn up every day in the Mall of America, too!!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 7:27 pmTroy: "Would that domination theory include Afghanistan?"
Of course. If you know anything about PNAC, you know Afghanistan is a big piece of the puzzle. There's that pipeline they needed from the Indian Ocean up to central Asia, you know.... or, maybe you don't.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:28 pmYou are so very wrong about Heinlein, jack. Do more research about the basis and function for Starship Troopers and why Heinlein originally decided to write the book.
BTW, ST is current on the reading lists of the Army, the Corps and the Navy, including their academies. Its also far more in depth than you make it seem, and very definitely NOT written to the level of young boys; the philosophy sections with DuBois are pretty intensive.
One of my faves too, Troy.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:29 pmOf course. If you know anything about PNAC, you know Afghanistan is a big piece of the puzzle. There’s that pipeline they needed from the Indian Ocean up to central Asia, you know…. or, maybe you don’t.
Then you might want to inform your democrat reps who seem unaware that they are actively and enthusiastically supporting Bush's cause of world domination.
How is that pipeline coming, anyway? You would think some dem like Kucinich would have exposed such a large project by now. Hmm, dropping the ball.
The Fever Swamps are in full swing on the left, the vacancy sign is always on.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:32 pmTroy,
Why is the leader of Afghanistan and the first two US ambassadors to Afghanistan all from UNOCAL?
Why did Cheney's Energy Task Force divide Iraq's oil fields in March 2001?
Why did our Sec of State have an oil tanker named after her?
Why did a bin Laden invest in W's first oil company, Arbusto?
Why was BCCI (full of terrorists and drug dealers) a major funder of W's small West Texas Harken Energy?
Why did PNAC write ten years ago that we should take control of the Middle East because of the OIL---but that it would take a New Pearl Harbour before people would go along?
Why is the Bush administration full of people from PNAC?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:35 pmComment by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MI)
Hehehehehe, Bachman is from Minnesota not Michigan.
DUH with a capital (D).
Tarnation you libs are dumb.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:35 pmStarhopper: "You are so very wrong about Heinlein, jack"
Star, I've eaten up everything he has ever written and I know a great deal about him. The information I offered came from him. He's the one who described his thinking in an interview done decades ago in the early 80's. I also know that he's a conservative and supports the military. But, I think that if you check a little closer into his own writings regarding his work, you will find that I'm correct about Starship Troopers.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:35 pmKeith, those are all great questions. Something tells me our trolls will find a way to pretend that you didn't pose them.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:37 pmKeith, or should I say...some other poster who decided to name change? Jack, come on now, youve been a fount of trivial conspiracy knowledge all night...fess up.
Like I said, fever swamping seems to be on the rise over in Donkeyland.
An SoS had an oil tanker named after her? Stop the presses, its world domination!
Do you have any idea how many members comprise the bin Laden family? Are you ready to hang them all for the actions of one, if so then you need to jail Al Gore since his son just got arrested for drug possession.
Would those ambassadors be 'appointees'? Oh my GOD, a POTUS appointed people that he knows...its never been done before in the history of the nation! WORLD DOMINATION!
Here, take some quinine for that fever, its on me.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:42 pmAfghanistan, and the Taliban, allowed Bin Laden a base of operations. The WORLD was with us when we toppled the Taliban and went after Bin Laden. We had bin Laden and al Qaeda cornered, but incompetent war planning let them skip across the Border into Pakistan...where they Have RECONSTITUTED THEMSELVES.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:44 pmThe WORLD was NOT WITH US, in Invading IRAQ. The Pope was against it. Nelson Mandela was against it. Hundreds of thousands of Americans were against it. The French, yes...and THE RUSSIANS and the CHINESE were against it. If we had listened to them, and given the inspectors time to inspect....we wouldn't be in the disasterous Quagmire...B Y OURSELVES ...like we are now.
Heinlein did many, many interviews, often defending his book against attacks that said he was either too militaristic or too blameful of the military.
According to Heinlein himself, he wrote ST in response to an article that advocated the U.S. stop nuclear testing altogether. He created the 'Patrick Henry League' to advocate continued testing and then wrote ST to clarify his views after being vilified by opponents.
Heinlein was also a vehement anti-communist as well as an opponent of the military draft.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:49 pmCongradulations, Troy! You instictively vomited out a bunch of non-sequiter nonsense without really answering any of Keith's questions.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:49 pmBUSH & CHENEY WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY. AND, THOSE WHO ALSO TAKE PART IN THIS SLAUGHTER FOR GREED WILL BURN IN HELL WITH THEM.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:51 pmAfghanistan, and the Taliban, allowed Bin Laden a base of operations. The WORLD was with us when we toppled the Taliban and went after Bin Laden.
Iran and their religious government currently allow a base of operations and headquarters for Hezbollah, a group who until AQ came along, were responsible for more deaths and atrocities than any other current terrorist organization. They are still considered one of the deadliest terror groups in the world.
Should we head in to Iran and wipe them out?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:51 pmStarHopper, that's interesting. I don't think Heinlein saw Starship Troopers as anything more than one of his minor works. Don't get me wrong, though. I like the book. There are a half a dozen others of his work that I think are much deeper and more enduring.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:53 pmTroy: "Should we head in to Iran and wipe them out?"
Since by our own Pentagon's estimate 45 to 50% of all al Qaeda in Iraq come from Saudi Arabia and less than 10% come from Iran, I would say NO! And, since Cheney and Bush have their heads up the Saudi's asses, we're not going to do thing one about al Qaeda in Iraq.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:56 pmIts congraTulations, jack, and what was there to answer?
I could say anything, I could show you photos of Rove getting busy with Pelosi and crapping on a photo of Cheney and you would STILL barf out lame 'truther' bullshat.
No matter what Bush does you will hate him, and in your zeal you create these tenuous threads of circumstance to prove that Bush is out to dominate the world, kill all the muslims, enslave gays and spread the AIDS virus to French citizens.
Its just so effin kookified that its just not worth answering with any real attempt at seriousness. I cant carry on a legitimate conversation with people who think that Bush is hiding Bin Ladens body in the White House freezer so he can continue the WOT.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:58 pmI’m still waiting for you to respond to my post asking you to compare the number of Democratic lawmakers who are veterans to the number of Republicans.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 24, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Fewer Republican vets choose to live off the government of the country that they love? Republican vets prefer to get real jobs? Fewer Republican vets can stand the company of politicians? ;)
July 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pmCongradulations, Troy! You instictively vomited out a bunch of non-sequiter nonsense without really answering any of Keith’s questions.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Exactly, thank you Purity of Essence or Peace on Earth.
So if I think the multi-Trillion dollar oil industry plans things---then I am a tin-foil hat conspiracy nut?
If you (TROY) think they don't---then you are brainless.
Barrel of oil under Clinton: $18. Barrel today: $74. Oil reserves of top five corps now worth $2.3 TRILLION !
I don't namejack. I used "keith" for a long time. Then 2 more keith's appeared. Then I switched to Keith G.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pmTroy, your last post wins today's award for the most strawmen arguments packed into the least space and making the least amount of sense. And, if you don't have the nads to "carry on a legitimate conversation" then get the hell out of here. Oh, and it's can't, not cant, dumbass.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:03 pmIts cool, jack. You were right, ST was actually written first as a shorter version meant for youngsters, a quickie space adventure novel, but his publisher canned it and Heinlein moved on to Putnam. That was where he added more of the philosophy and fleshed-out Rico's interaction with DuBois and his father.
He abandoned writing kid-oriented books and moved on to more intense adult novels. Ive read most of his books but ST was my first foray into SF as a lad and it just stayed with me. Better days and all that.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:03 pmShould we head in to Iran and wipe them out?
Comment by Troy Malerta — July 24, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Obviously not. We don't have the troops. We don't have the justification in the eyes of the world. And if you think terrorism is a problem now...try an unprovoked attack on IRAN. Not to mention the likely "shock and awe" at the gas pumps.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:06 pmAnd IRAN was the first country our CIA overthrew in 1953...so we don't have the moral Highground.
And it is wrong to CONFLATE Al Qaeda ( sunni) with Hezbollah (Shiite). Such lumping together of ethnic groups into the catchphrase "Terrorists" is why we're in the mess we are in in Iraq.
Since by our own Pentagon’s estimate 45 to 50% of all al Qaeda in Iraq come from Saudi Arabia and less than 10% come from Iran, I would say NO! And, since Cheney and Bush have their heads up the Saudi’s asses, we’re not going to do thing one about al Qaeda in Iraq.
Uh, I was talking about badger's synopsis that we had a right to topple the legitimate government of Afghanistan and then occupy the country because AQ was a dangerous terrorist threat. Hezbollah is just as dangerous, our own agencies agree, so by badger's logic we should go into Iran and wipe them out.
Youre getting slow, maybe you need a Pamprinâ„¢ and a nap?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:07 pmupright left: "Fewer Republican vets choose to live off the government of the country that they love? Republican vets prefer to get real jobs? Fewer Republican vets can stand the company of politicians? ;)"
Or maybe it's that more Democratic veterans value public service than do Republican veterans. Maybe more Democratic veterans want to work within the system. Maybe they have more respect for our consitutional government than repubs.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:08 pmI don't think bin Laden is in W's freezer. But it is obvious that W gave him an easy exit to Pakistan and then has left him alone for the past six years.
Pakistan actually has nuclear weapons. They, along with Reagan, GHWB, and the CIA actually did strongly support al Qaeda. Pakistan sold nuclear technology to North Korea. etc., etc.
W spent all our resources going after the oil. All intelligence of the USA said we INCREASED terrorism.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:09 pmStarhopper, thanks for that. I don't think I've read the expanded version you're talking about. I'll have to look for it.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:10 pmAnd if you think terrorism is a problem now…try an unprovoked attack on IRAN.
Curious that the unprovoked attack on Afghanistan didnt raise the liberal spectre of more terrorism.
BTW, you do understand that 911 occurred BEFORE we invaded Iraq? Just want to make sure that you realize we have been enduring attacks from the ME savages for quite awhile with no meaningful retaliation.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:10 pmTroy, I don't think any legitimate expert on terrorism believes Hezbollah to be as serious a threat as al Qaeda. I havn't heard anyone make that argument, but maybe I just need to get out more.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:12 pmNo prob. If youre interested, there is a fine version of the book available with all sorts of extras, a sort of compenium of various ST prints, info on Heinlein, background, etc. I believe its only hardcover and therefore expensive but its only money.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:12 pmAfghanistan was related to 9/11.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. (Other than being strongly suppressive of the radical Islamists who did commit 9/11).
It would have made sense to invade Pakistan. That's where bin Laden and his men actually were.
Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:14 pmTroy: "Curious that the unprovoked attack on Afghanistan didnt raise the liberal spectre of more terrorism."
Oh, wise up, dumbass. Almost everyone approved of the attack on Afganistan because they were harboring the terrorist group that planned and executed the 9-11 attack. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the 9-11 attack.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:14 pmI would have to do some digging on sites that reference national security agencies, but Hez is right up there on top of the list of highly dangerous terrorist groups. Big, well-funded, well-trained and state sponsored.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:15 pmThe reason Iran was so radical and anti-American in 1979 was because the US overthrew a very popular and democratically-elected leader of Iran in 1953 and installed the fascist Shah.
The reason we did was because of the OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 8:16 pmTroy..Al Qaeda attacked American Civilians in America. Hezbollah attacks were mostly aimed at Israeli Troops in occupied Lebannon.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:17 pmDo you favor attacking the Tamil Tigers???They're Terrorists too.
Starhopper, thanks for the headsup on that book. I'll look for it at Amazon! Gotta go.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:20 pmSorry Col. Assgoblin, but I will have to again lead you by the nose. We are not talking about Iraq, we are talking about Iran, please get the semen out of your eyes and pay attention.
Hezbollah has been killing our citizens for years, not the least of which was the barracks bombing in 1983 that killed 241 American military personnel. It also has the distinction of being the deadliest attack against Americans overseas since WWII. How many other attacks have they committed against us?
Is 241 dead soldiers enough for you or not, just so we can be clear on how many Americans can die in an attack before Col. Shatforbrains can declare a right to retaliate. Iran sponsors and supports Hezbollah, by the logic iniated in earlier posts, we should have the right to hit Iran.
Get it now you syphilitic?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:22 pmTroy..Al Qaeda attacked American Civilians in America. Hezbollah attacks were mostly aimed at Israeli Troops in occupied Lebannon.
Do you favor attacking the Tamil Tigers???They’re Terrorists too.
Tell that to the American and French soldiers targeted and killed in 1983.
If the Tamils start killing Americans then yes, I favor wiping them off the globe too.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:24 pmReagan, Casey, Ollie North, Colin Powell, Richard Armitage, and GHWB sent massive amounts of weaponry (including thousands of TOW missiles) illegally to the terrorist state of Iran. Hezbollah takes hostages in Beirut. Reagan administration says "we will sell you more if you release the hostages". Hezbollah thinks this is a neat idea, and therefore takes more hostages in order to get more weapons, etc., etc.
Senator Kerry leads prosecutions. They are squashed by lying, obstruction of justice and pardons (sound familiar).
Reagan testifies under oath "I don't recall".
July 24th, 2007 at 8:25 pmAlmost everyone approved of the attack on Afganistan because they were harboring the terrorist group that planned and executed the 9-11 attack.
So? They attacked America, why would or should the world agree to invasion and occupation because of that, AQ didnt topple the Eiffel Tower or the Parliament Building.
By that measure we need to invade Iran for sponsoring a group that regularly attacks and kills Israelis.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:27 pmCarter(D) watches for 444 days as Iranians students first attack and invade American territory and then parade and humiliate their American hostages.
Coward, useless spineless coward democrat.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:29 pmComment by Troy Malerta — July 24, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
Maybe the Lebanese did not like the US supporting the illegal Israeli invasion of their country killing many thousands. Maybe the Lebanese didn't like the US gunships shelling their villages and killing innocent civilians.
Would it be all right with you if someone invaded and occupied your country?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:29 pmCarter's inaction cannot be as bad as the Reagan administration selling Iran massive amounts of weaponry, you hypocrite.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pmWould that be "Winter Soldier" Kerry, he of the atrocity claims that couldnt be proven or even substantiated?
You retard, your short bus is waiting, why dont you drag your drooling butt outside and begone.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pmCarter's inaction canot be as bad as Eisenhower radicalizing the country by overthrowing a democratically-elected leader and installing the fascist Shah.
p.s.: Eisenhower banged his chauffeur.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:33 pmCarter’s inaction cannot be as bad as the Reagan administration selling Iran massive amounts of weaponry, you hypocrite.
Wrong. Carter made America look like a foolish paper tiger, then he grudgingly sends a half-supported rescue mission which ends in disaster. He was a coward who still believes to this day that you can somehow sweet-talk terrorists. The anti-semite wouldnt even have done that had there not been massive public outcry.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:33 pmMy brother was in Nam and he said My Lai was nothing. That it happened all the time. Special Forces. Two tours. Many medals.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:34 pmp.s.: Eisenhower banged his chauffeur.
P.S: Clinton banged everybody. Except his wife, of course.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:34 pmI would say selling them massive amounts of weaponry is worse than "sweet talking", but that is just my opinion.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:35 pmbut we didn't impeach Eisenhower for banging his chauffeur.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:37 pmAnd what was President Reagan"s reaction to the tragic deaths of our Marines by a TRUCKBOMB. For once, he got and took some good advice....he got the Hell out of there. Notice he didn't put even more Marines in poorly protected barracks.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:38 pmGood for you. I had two uncles in Vietnam (brothers), both Green Beanies, both majors, both did multiple tours, both were in Special Forces since its inception; they were part of the original cadre that eventually morphed into the Green Berets. I have a stack of unbelievable black and white photos that one uncle gave me.
War is ugly, atrocities happen, no country can claim the high ground on that issue. But you just keep hating America and putting your trust in guys like Chavez and Castro. Youre a lib and libs need someone to tell them what to do and how to live.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:38 pmI would say selling them massive amounts of weaponry is worse than “sweet talkingâ€, but that is just my opinion.
Thats why libs cant be trusted with national security, you fail to see the big picture.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:38 pmbut we didn’t impeach Eisenhower for banging his chauffeur.
We didnt impeach Clinton for banging anyone either, we impeached him for lying to a grand jury.
Are you really this stupid?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:39 pmCarter didn't try to rescue the hostages in Iran?
http://www.specwarnet.net/miscinfo/eagleclaw.htm
July 24th, 2007 at 8:39 pmI was responding to you saying atrocities did not happen in Vietnam.
Of the three million that died, over one-half were civilians.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:40 pmClinton did not lie. The prosecutors' definition of sexual relations did not include anything that he and Monica did. That is why he was found NOT GUILTY.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:41 pmRead 222 again, rick. Something about "sending a half-supported rescue mission".
Jebus, this is getting old dragging you dimwits along.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:41 pmReagan said "I don't recall" under oath about the massive sale of weaponry illegally to the terrorist state of Iran.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:42 pmClinton did not lie. The prosecutors’ definition of sexual relations did not include anything that he and Monica did. That is why he was found NOT GUILTY.
Not the same as innocent. He still banged everybody, not just his chauffeur.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:42 pmReagan said “I don’t recall†under oath about the massive sale of weaponry illegally to the terrorist state of Iran.
Funny you say that, a certain wife of a certain dem president said the same thing under oath when questioned about strange activities dealing with 'Whitewater'.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:44 pmClinton should not have had to testify about Paula Jones. It was a big lie that allegedly happened decades previously. It was not a constitutional violation.
Our current administration has 101 constitutional violations.
Notes of meetings during Iran-Contra said "this is impeachable if it gets out".
July 24th, 2007 at 8:45 pmIn Whitewater, the Clintons lost a few thousand in a condo deal decades before he was president.
Which was worse: that or the illegal sale of massive amounts of weaponry to the terrorist state of Iran?
July 24th, 2007 at 8:46 pmTroy has a problem with "SEX".
July 24th, 2007 at 8:48 pmYou said Carter didn't try to rescue the hostages, I proved to you that, yes, he did allow a rescue mission.
The planning of that mission was problematic, as the late Colonel Beckwith and Orr Kelly pointed out in their books.
The United States at the time lacked a unified SpecOps capability (due to the inservices continual animosity towards "joint operations"), and so the operation had to be put together piecemeal.
While the mission failed due to these shortcomings, it did lead to the creation of the joint Special Operations Command, as well as improved training and techniques for future operations.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:49 pmI'm sorry, the books I'm referring to were Col. Charlie Beckwith's "Delta Force" and Orr Kelly's "From A Dark Sky".
Great reads if you get the chance.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:51 pmlibs always want USA USA USA to fail in war
libs cheer for the enemy while taxing poor RICH republicans
libs basically run the media - so letting Greenwald interview
the GENERAL - would make it so lopsided, Hewitt interview
is the least the LIBERAL media can deal with.
libs are ALWAYS partisan and ALWAYS wrong
libs defend Clinton the liar while attacking Bush who can
do no wrong (he did say he never made a mistake)
libs HATE - just look how they went after poor Vitter who
was merely being a guy. :(
Since republicans WON both the last elections - and Bush CLEARLY
won - then it matters not that only 30% of the population supports
him - he only has to please them. :)
He is the father figure, the protector - the tough man’s man
and he is the UNITARY EXECUTIVE - and what he says goes
deal with it.
If a lib challenges me - or provides links to facts - I will simply
July 24th, 2007 at 9:33 pmrefuse to directly respond to said facts - and just repeat the
vaunted phrase-of-the day that I heard Rush say this morning.
or was it Hannity.
The surge has basically been chasing the terrorist and criminal gangs around the suburbs of Baghdad, or even into northern or western Iraq. This has taken its toll. Time spent in flight cannot be spent planting IEDs or killing people. Putting all these guys on the road, also makes them more susceptible to capture. A lot of important terrorists have been captured this way. The chief liaison between al Qaeda headquarters and al Qaeda in Iraq was nabbed, as well as many mid-level terrorist cell leaders.
What most of the troops, and Iraqi civilians, notice is the lower level of violence. Since the surge offensive began four months ago, Iraqi (military and civilian) deaths have declined by more than 50 percent, and American casualties are down by over a third. U.S. troops are still taking the lead in moving into hostile areas, and being exposed to ambush and IEDs. But U.S. tactics and training have made enemy efforts much less lethal. This has helped demoralize an increasing number of terrorists. Many are tired of killing Iraqi civilians, and the increasing difficulty at getting at American troops. Look at this from the Iraqi perspective. In a very good month, Iraqis make a hundred or more attacks a day on American troops, and kill, on average, about four of them. While the terrorists make a big deal out of every American killed, they know that most of their attacks were not only failures, but got a lot of their buddies killed. On average, 10-20 terrorists die for every American killed. This has been going on for years, and an increasing number of Iraqi fighters are demoralized and quitting. Many either become informers, or surrender and speak freely. This is resulting in fresher intelligence, and raids that are catching terrorist cells preparing for operations, and in possession of weapons, bombs and incriminating documents.
Well, good.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:51 pmIn a very good month, Iraqis make a hundred or more attacks a day on American troops, and kill, on average, about four of them. While the terrorists make a big deal out of every American killed, they know that most of their attacks were not only failures, but got a lot of their buddies killed.
Comment by Frank J — July 24, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
Reminiscent of David Brooks, admitted puller of numbers out of thin air.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:18 amWelcome to fantasy land!
Google is great.
I found out that the title of the article at 244 is "Not A Good Time To Be Sunni And Arab In Iraq" at Strategy Page.
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20070724.aspx
Not a good time to be a Sunni and Arab in Iraq?
Okay, the Sunni part is, I would hope, referring to the Sunni insurgents. I would hate to think the author meant Sunnis in general. But I have seen some reports that US forces are fighting Shia militiamen.
So apparently it's not a good time to be either a Shia or Sunni in Iraq. Which leaves, what, the Sufis?
And it's also not a good time to be an Arab, in an Arab country?
Now I'm no editor, but wouldn't a better title have been "Not A Good Time To Be An Insurgent In Iraq"? Just a suggestion.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:00 amNot a good time to be a Sunni and Arab in Iraq?
Or an American!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:05 amIt's better to have a civil war over there than to fight a civil war over here. Heh heh heh
July 25th, 2007 at 5:53 amSee this is why the Lancet estimates look like complete bullshit.
Even those Iraqis killed on orders by the heads of government departments or still wearing police handcuffs to go with their police issued bullet wounds are dumped in public.
In terms of who's killing people, nobody from the government, Mahdi, Sadr, Badr, Sunni militants all the way down to al Qaeda and ISI aren't shy about dropping bodies in public. Nobody.
This is in fact the express purpose in leaving them in public, so that they are found.
Yet the Lancet figures suggest for every 1 body found there are 9 that are not.
Presumably killed by someone other than those who are doing the opposite of what you see here and in every news report you've ever seen about Iraq.
Because after all, there is no news report yet that mentions those killings. No family member either for that matter. For every body you hear about killed by someone, Lancet tells you there's 9 killed by an unknown "other" who's so crafty that not only are the dead bodies never discovered, apparently the missing family members aren't either.
Buy that do you ?
Pulitzer prize waiting right there.
Seymour Hersh won one for simply reporting that Mai Lai happened. That was a couple of hundred people. Can you imagine if his story was instead that out of the 3 million Vietnamese killed, that Malaysians killed 2.7million and he was the first guy on the planet to notice ?
Nobody on the planet want to claim it ? No ?
For revealing that the Iraq you know about and the known mass murderers at work are absolute pussies compared to this as yet unidentified "other" cause resulting in 9 times the amount of violent deaths than all known causes combined.
Yeah, there's a reason for that.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:13 pmFiction and Reporting are 2 totally separate categories in the Pulitzer prize and they get kind of pissy if you pass one off as the other.
What are you not understanding about the word "genocide" ?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:54 pmGenocide? Where does it mention genocide in the article at #244?
And against who? The Sunnis?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pmYeah.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pmWhat did you think was the idea behind the police going to a street and dragging whole Sunni families at a time out of their homes to be tortured and killed.
Or militia checkpoints where a Sunni name on your ID papers determines whether you never make it home.
It ain't a neighbourhood watch thing.
Bit of a quandry.
The majority of insurgents attacking Americans are Sunni, who get support from the Sunni population (the temporary alliance in Anbar notwithstanding), yet apparently the United States can not leave because those same Sunnis will be massacred, according to the war supporters.
The future of Iraq does seem bleak.
There was a quote I read today, by a Dr. Bhaskar Dasgupta at Descrtics.org ( http://desicritics.org/2007/07/22/004750.php ):
"What is unfortunate is that the future of the country (Iraq) and its people is now either dependent on a divine miracle or on a bunch of frankly very small minded people lead by pygmies, wrapped up in obstinate ideologies and the vagaries of American/British politics. "
July 25th, 2007 at 1:45 pmThe American government is already a corrupt, evil and brutal government. All proof has already been set in cement over the past few years that Bush Jr. and his Republican cronies took over the White House. As for the topic at hand, it shouldn't be surprising that Bush might call it progress. The fact that he doesn't show too much sympathy for the innocents that die in Iraq - and believe you me, Saddam's life was not worth the lives of innocents that die to this day - shows us that Bush has an agenda in Iraq, and his agenda must stop immediately.
Best thing he could do is cut and run from press conferences.He shouldn't make any more excuses, as he has no excuse at all.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:05 amThis is really sad. It is about the oil. Saudi Arabia and Houston do not want Iraq to produce more oil they want to sit on it and make sure it does not get tapped to drive prices higher. It has been that way since the 1920's.
It is all in the new Greg Palast book "Armed Madhouse," which explains everything to you if you have any outstanding questions about why we are in Iraq. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Just finshed it. No more questions. Peak oil is a myth that is supposed to explain the cartel's price per barrel. Time for us to leave the missle east.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:26 pmI meant to type middle east. That was not a joke!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:27 pm