Senators Call Bush’s Veto Of Children’s Health Insurance Program ‘Outrageous’ And ‘Offensive’
Senators Call Bush’s Veto Of Children’s Health Insurance Program ‘Outrageous’ And ‘Offensive’
Congress is currently considering legislation to reauthorize and expand the popular State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which currently insures close to 6 million children. The new proposal would expand “current levels of spending by $35 billion over the next five years” and “reduce the number of uninsured children by 4.1 million.”
Six Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee voted for the SCHIP expansion, which is being heavily opposed by the tobacco industry. But “in an unexpected turn of events,” the conservative leadership announced that it is caving to President Bush’s demands and is objecting to the legislation.
Bush has promised to veto the SCHIP expansion. Today in an event at the Center for American Progress, Sens. Bob Casey (D-PA) and Hillary Clinton (D-NY) sharply criticized the veto threat:
Casey: [Bush] wants to give a billion dollars a year of an increase for children’s health insurance, and tens of billions — by one estimate as much as a hundred billion dollars — in tax cuts to wealthy people. … I don’t understand it and we are not going to accept that because fortunately, unlike a lot of things on Capitol Hill, there is bipartisan agreement on this.
Clinton: [I]f he wants to have part of his legacy be vetoing the child health insurance program then we’ll try to override the veto because this is absolutely an imperative. … I just think it’s outrageous and offensive that the President would threaten to veto this legislation.
Watch it:
As Ezra Klein notes, the right-wing objections to SCHIP are “explicitly ideological.” They are based in a right-wing desire to see “as few individuals on government-based insurance as possible.” Conservatives are rallying opposition to children’s health care as “spring training” practice for future battles over universal coverage.
This year, SCHIP marks its 10th anniversary as a bipartisan, federal-state collaboration to improve the nation’s health coverage. Bruce Lesley of First Focus calls SCHIP “the one major healthcare success story over the past 10 years” for providing “cost-effective health coverage to millions of children with coverage that the private market by itself has been unable to provide.” Along with Medicaid, SCHIP has “reduced the proportion and the number of low-income children who are uninsured by about one third since 1997.”
Transcript:
PODESTA: Just because it’s so topical, I would just ask you both to comment on one item we didn’t talk about. But kids who are sick also can’t learn and right now there is a controversy over the bipartisan SCHIP bill that the President has threatened to veto and I wonder if you might want to comment on that since it’s likely to be before the Senate in the very near future.
CLINTON: Absolutely, you know I am very proud to have helped start SCHIP when I was first lady and am very gratified by the fact that it does insure nearly six million children, but we have still about nine million children who are uninsured. And both the House and the Senate are working to expand out coverage.
First of all, we have to reauthorize SCHIP by the first of September.
So first and foremost, we have to keep the existing program going, but we all believe that it is important to try to expand its coverage beyond the nearly six million that it covers now because John is absolutely right, as every one of us knows, a child with a physical illness, dental problems, other undiagnosed ailments — behavioral or even mental — is not going to be successful. And it is just wrong for the president to threaten to veto this effort to expand the children’s health insurance program.
So we’re going to do everything we can to pass this program. And if he wants to have part of his legacy be vetoing the child health insurance program then we’ll try to override the veto because this is absolutely an imperative. There are lots of examples of how children are not successful in school because they don’t have access to quality, affordable healthcare. I just think it’s outrageous and offensive that the President would threaten to veto this legislation.
CASEY: To reiterate what Senator Clinton said, I really find it hard to accept the fact that once again the millionaires and the multi- millionaires and the billionaires will get their tax cut this year to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, just in one year. And president has told us is that apparently he believes that the [SCHIP] program is working and it should be reauthorized and should have an increase in funding. But he only wants to give five billion dollars of an increase over five years. So he wants to give a billion dollars a year of an increase for children’s health insurance, and tens of billions — by one estimate as much as a hundred billion dollars — in tax cuts to wealthy people.
I don’t understand it and we are not going to accept that because fortunately, unlike a lot of things on Capitol Hill, there is bipartisan agreement on this and — there are a lot of Republican senators who don’t’ understand — even if they are quite about it, as they sometimes are — they don’t understand why the president has taken this position. So I can’t say how much, I can’t emphasize enough, I should say, how critically important this is, this year, to get this done to make sure we fund it in a way that make sense for children but also makes sense for the health of the country.
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in an unexpected turn of events,†the conservative leadership announced that it is caving to President Bush’s demands and is objecting to the legislation.
I don't see why following your commander-in-chief's policy would be that strange.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:13 pmHere's Bush's little rant against having children get more health care.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:15 pma right-wing desire to see “as few individuals on government-based insurance as possible.â€
All these damn kids, always coming around wanting stuff.
"Can I have some milk?"
"Can I have some food?"
"Can I have some medicine?"
Republicans: "Sheesh, you just ate yesterday, what's your problem? medicine? why? you an addict? (*please say yes, so we can ship you off into the prison system*). Medicine! You hear that? Some 6 year old just told she needed 'medicine'. What is she, a Dr.?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:16 pmRepublicans are more and more reminding me of the bank lendersin those "small business loan - What's in your wallet" commercials.
Apparently, "government-run healthcare" is only good when it removes polyps from his own ass.
Typical self-centered conservative whiner.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:17 pmthis is not funny. it is time we get a new government, for the one we have is totally useless and harmful to our collective health
July 25th, 2007 at 4:18 pmI Love Compassionate Conservatism!
July 25th, 2007 at 4:18 pmWhy do Republicans love fetuses but hate the children they become?
Just more obstructionism. I am sure that the replacement bill that will be put to the floor will be pretty much the same thing, but the Republicans want to take credit for it.
Unfortunately, the Democrats would have to vote for it, and allow the Republicans to do so.
The Republicans are putting politics over people once again. Unsurprised.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pmsick sick sick... i can't even comprehend the conservo-wacked out logic on this.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pmUHC NOW!!!
Ages ago, Marc Maron (of blessed memory) described Republicans as people who believed that the worst thing you could possibly do for the poor is help them.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:21 pmPretty much nailed it.
Remember, if American children get healthcare, the terrorists win!
July 25th, 2007 at 4:21 pmHealth care for the privledged; screw the middle class. That about sums up bush-cheney-g.o.p. view of Americans.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:23 pmThe next time you hear someone say,"There's no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans", this is a very good example of why they are wrong.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:24 pmYou really don't see what is wrong with vetoing a children's health bill? Wow, where the hell did you get your morals?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:24 pmfor sausagebob et al:
Section 2.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/
A commander-in-chief is the commander of a nation's military forces or significant element of those forces.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:25 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander-in-chief
Hey, as soon is something is opposed by the tobacco industry then you know it must be on the right tracks.
Incidentally, I'm a smoker so please feel free to label me a hypocrite. Wish I wasn't but 14 yr old UKBristolDave had other ideas.....
July 25th, 2007 at 4:26 pmin an unexpected turn of events,†the conservative leadership announced that it is caving to President Bush’s demands and is objecting to the legislation.
I what universe is that considered "unexpected"?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:28 pmTypical Republican refusing to support children and family values, while spending hundreds of billions on weapons.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:29 pmWow, where the hell did you get your morals?
It's not a question of morals. It's a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pmThey've got theirs, screw everybody else.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:31 pmGotta be repukelickins...
Well, these days the country carries the burden of insuring 5-8 children per couple, probably all illegal immigrants. So yes, the country can't afford this. This is cost ineffective.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:32 pmBush's Texas was the only state to not fund this program when it started. This should come as no surprise. At least they can't say they're doing it for the children.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:32 pmRemember, it is 'Compassionate Conservatism'.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:32 pmWhat's sick about this is a kid can't just go out and get a job to pay for his or her healthcare, like conservatives believe that an adult could. I have not seen any stories on this on the MSM sites, which is pathetic.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmPresident Bush is to veto a bill that would ban mercury in flu vaccines for children despite its known links to autism and other neurological disorders and despite the fact that he pledged in 2004 to support such a move when campaigning for re-election.
The White House stated on Tuesday that President Bush would veto the FY 2008 HHS-Labor-Education Appropriations Bill because of the cost and "objectionable provisions" such as a measure to ban the use of childhood flu vaccines that contain thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, a press release from Autism advocacy group Safe Minds on the PRNewswire-USNewswire states.
Bush is calling for an amendment that would remove the children's safety provision from the bill.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmJust be thankful he's not crushing their testicles.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmI can't wait for that pudthwacker to veto that bill!!
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmI can see the campaign commercials now; big-eyed children asking why did Senator (insert g.o.p. name) vote against health care for me?
Good luck with this one republics.
Why does the g.o.p. hate children?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmIt’s not a question of morals. It’s a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief.
Comment by Boudin Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Wow. You have a vastly different view of our form of representational democracy than I do.
Your view sounds an awful lot like an authoritarian regime.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:34 pmWith his vocal opposition to the expansion of the S-CHIP program to provide health care coverage for more of America's children, President Bush is returning to the same tried and true formula he first pioneered in Texas. That is, Bush initially fought the legislation on ideological grounds before caving to popular pressure and grudgingly accepting some version of the bill. Then, as with the Texas S-CHIP program, the Texas Patients Bill of Right and the 2003 Medicare prescription drug benefit, Bush claimed credit for it.
for the details, see:
July 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pm"S-CHIP on Bush's Shoulder."
Comment by Angry One — July 25, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
So you are saying that healthcare provided by a non-profitmaking body works? Hold the front page!
:-)
July 25th, 2007 at 4:37 pmBoudin Bob: "It’s not a question of morals. It’s a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief."
You don't really know much about our constitutional system and the men who crafted it, do you Bob.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:37 pmPerhaps we might have more money if it werent being spent on every illegal soul who manages to put a toe over our border. This really is just a prelude to bigger and stupider ideas by the dems, mainly because you cant compromise with the left; agree to give them an inch and the next day they demand a mile.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:37 pmAhnuld shootz for the tohp
July 25th, 2007 at 4:39 pmTo protect the constitution as the US having coequal branches of govt judiciary panel issues contempt citations
It’s not a question of morals. It’s a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief.
Comment by Boudin Bob
Comment by spit take — July 25, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
Comment by katy — July 25, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
Spit & Katy,
Bob is a troll. His only mission in life (besides the unenviable task of having to wash Mr. Pee's tube sock once a year) is to get you riled up with stupid and inane comments. It's what sustains him.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:39 pmWhy does the g.o.p. hate children?
Comment by helenahandbasket — July 25, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
If this plan is so good let the states implement it for themselves. Or did we forget the 10th amendment to the Constitution? Why is it so hard for you “progressives†to understand that government rarely gets anything right and if left alone private industry will resolve the issue? Why force it government health care on everyone?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pmYou don’t really know much about our constitutional system and the men who crafted it, do you Bob.
Oh, I do. I just think that it's a high time for a change. Let's have some discipline in our constitutional system, people!
July 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pmWe'd also have more money for healthcare if we didn't spend $300-plus billion a year on defense.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pmSeeing an opportunity to solve both the armed forces recruiting problem and provide children with healthcare, Bush advised that all uninsured children should enlist in the military.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:41 pmHis only mission in life (besides the unenviable task of having to wash Mr. Pee’s tube sock once a year) is to get you riled up with stupid and inane comments. It’s what sustains him.
Nah. I'm just fscking bored here.
Watching all this instrumentation in the lab is just too boring.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:42 pmOffensive? Bush gave much more money to SCHIP than Bill Clinton ever did!
July 25th, 2007 at 4:42 pmWhy is it so hard for you “progressives†to understand that government rarely gets anything right and if left alone private industry will resolve the issue? Why force it government health care on everyone?
How can the government do any worse than the system that we have now? You conservatives have no clue about anything. The private capitalist system is why were are in this mess, idiot.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:43 pmComment by Frybread — July 25, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
Frybread, Frybread, Frybread. The point you are missing is that guns and bombs are sexy. Keeping people alive is boring. Hell, look at the picture of a 45 year old man who hasn't been blown apart. Then look at the footage of a cruise missle blowing the living jesus out of something. Which one gives you a hard on?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:44 pm#32 that makes no sense. the money being spent on illegals who claim health care is not even a drop in the bucket when you look at all the money we WASTE in iraq!!!
fuzzy math?!
jackass
July 25th, 2007 at 4:44 pmOffensive? Bush gave much more money to SCHIP than Bill Clinton ever did!
Do you have proof?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:44 pmComment by SGT Higgins — July 25, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Your website is touching, Mr. Higgins.
You seem to be a good family man. Good blessings to you and your family.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:45 pmThe private capitalist system is why were are in this mess, idiot.
Comment by Frybread — July 25, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
How so?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:48 pm"If this plan is so good let the states implement it for themselves. Or did we forget the 10th amendment to the Constitution?"
States don't have the money for this. Even if they did, do you really feel it would be appropriate for every American child to have coverage except for those in backasswards states like South Carolina
"Why is it so hard for you “progressives†to understand that government rarely gets anything right"
I agree, that's certainly true of Republican administrations
"and if left alone private industry will resolve the issue?"
Sure they will! Just like Enron did!
"Why force it government health care on everyone?"
Oh yes, becuase Americans would rather die than have the opportunity to see a doctor when they are sick! Like your ideological masters, you are completely disconnected from public opinion and on your way to obscurity. Have a nice ride!
Comment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
July 25th, 2007 at 4:48 pmComment by Frybread — July 25, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Hey frybread, I was being sarcy. Hope you didn't take offense
July 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pmYour website is touching, Mr. Higgins.
You seem to be a good family man. Good blessings to you and your family.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan
Thank you.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pmBoudin Bob: "Let’s have some discipline in our constitutional system, people!"
Bob, why do you think the founders made the rules and powers of Congress the first article? Wouldn't "discipline" in this case apply to the executive branch? Why shouldn't the executive branch recognize and have the discipline to bow to the power of Congress, the "people's body."
Or, let me put this another way. Would you agree that a President Hillary Clinton should disregard the congress if they disagree with her policies? Are you ready to fall in lock-step behind Hillary Clinton?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm#32 that makes no sense. the money being spent on illegals who claim health care is not even a drop in the bucket when you look at all the money we WASTE in iraq!!!
fuzzy math?!
jackass
You do understand that how much money we spend in Iraq is irrelevant in determining how much money is wasted on illegals. In the purely technical sense, wasting money on two different things doesnt detract from the 'wastefulness' of either.
Or are you too much of a dumbass to understand that simple point? Dont bother answering, I already know.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pmComment by Frybread — July 25, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
http://healthaffairs.org/press/janfeb0201.htm
Enrollment in the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) grew 70 percent in fiscal year 2000, from 1.9 million to 3.3 million. Total SCHIP spending increased to $2.8 billion in 2000, up from $1.8 billion in 1999.
Bush's proposal is $30 billion over 5 years, or $6 billion annually. Currently, its at $5 billion.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:51 pmStates don’t have the money for this.
How so?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:52 pmWould you agree that a President Hillary Clinton should disregard the congress if they disagree with her policies? Are you ready to fall in lock-step behind Hillary Clinton?
Ah. The dreaded Hillary-scenario.
That's so hypothetical that I won't even bother answering it. Face it. Hillary (or any dem for that matter) won't be allowed to win in 2008.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:53 pmYou trust the government to provide you health care? The same government who cant seem to anything right? Great, next the government, who pays the bills, will start deciding what you get to eat, where you get to travel, what hobbies youre allowed to do, etc.
Mr. Orwell, sir, its time to roll over in your grave.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:56 pmOh yes, becuase Americans would rather die than have the opportunity to see a doctor when they are sick! Like your ideological masters, you are completely disconnected from public opinion and on your way to obscurity. Have a nice ride!
Comment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
Name something the government does better than private industry......
Who pays?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:57 pmYou cannot have an abortion because we need dumbed down and sickly American children to grow up and work in sweat shops to replace the illegal aliens who do the jobs Americans don't want!!
Plus we need that money to pay for freeing the terrorists in Iraq so they won't attack the homeland. We must spend billions rebuilding the Iraqi infrastructure so we can have a healthy happy terrorist Democracy in the middle east. We also need to keep building multi-million dollar guided weapons that can shoot camels up the butt and destroy cheap adobe shacks and lean-toos and nomadic tents. We must destroy the world in order to save it you stupid liberals will never learn. Money and greed and war are our saviour! Not some peace love hippy Jesus communal pot heads spewing love your enemy and turn the other cheek dribble.
/sarcon
July 25th, 2007 at 4:57 pmM12, Bush's $30 billion over 5 years will result in another 5 to 6 million children NOT being covered. The congressional plan results in 4.1 million children MORE being covered. The cost of healthcare has risen at 5 to 10 times the rate of inflation over the last 6 years, so 90's numbers for this area are next to irrelevant. And the states are strapped for money as a result of lower state taxation rates as well as unfunded federal mandates in education and cuts to their federal dollars for welfare and homeland security. Texas, for example, is almost bankrupt. California has huge budget problems. Most states are in the same stew.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:58 pmComment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
National Defense?
July 25th, 2007 at 4:58 pmFood and Drug Inspection?
Provide ALL of our Infrastructure?
How so?
Because they are already burdened with underfunded mandates such as Dumbya's "No child left behind."
July 25th, 2007 at 4:59 pmWell, I hope that the Democrats pass it anyway and make Bush veto it. People are sick and tired (pun intended) of our healthcare system and vetoing health care for children is going to sink Bush further.
I just hope that the Democrats don't just stop on this because they know Bush will veto it. They need to do their job and pass laws and let Bush find his "veto pen" which was strangely missing for 6 years.
All those Senators who backed down are going to catch hell from their constituents for doing this. Hopefully their constituents will remember this when it comes time to vote in 2008.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:00 pmYour website is touching, Mr. Higgins.
and i wanted you to know that, while at the same time
slighting your distinguished military service...
- l c scan
sure what it looks like to me, sarge...
and yes, i know about the trooll, sausagebob...
July 25th, 2007 at 5:00 pmthanks...
We are the only Western industrialized nation that does not have universal healthcare, yet we pay more per capita than any of our peers for healthcare.
Kevin, please explain to us why Americans don't deserve the same access to care that the rest of the civilized world has.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:01 pmName something the government does better than private industry……
Who pays?
Comment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Feed the poor?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:01 pmKeep orphans alive?
Negotiate Treaties?
Collect taxes?
Maintain our national parks?
M12, Bush’s $30 billion over 5 years will result in another 5 to 6 million children NOT being covered. The congressional plan results in 4.1 million children MORE being covered. The cost of healthcare has risen at 5 to 10 times the rate of inflation over the last 6 years, so 90’s numbers for this area are next to irrelevant.
This is your excuse for your hero Clinton? Health insurance premiums have increased about 85% since 2000, and SCHIP, going from $2.8b to $6b, more than keeps pace with it!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:02 pmBecause they are already burdened with underfunded mandates such as Dumbya’s “No child left behind.â€
You mean Ted Kennedy's No Child Left Behind?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:02 pmName something the government does better than private industry……
Who pays?
Comment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Break up monopolies?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:03 pmFarm subsidies?
Monitor transportation security?
You trust the government to provide you health care? The same government who cant seem to anything right?
Comment by CowTown
Yeah the same govt that provides the police, fire dept, safe drinking water, schools for our children, etc. Which would most likely be run into the ground if profit was involved. But hey to a con a burning building deserves govt allocation more than the health of a citizen.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:03 pmKevin: "Name something the government does better than private industry……"
Medicare: the operational overhead for Medicare is 2 to 3%, while insurance based healthcare is 25 to 35% for profit-based and about 20% for non-profit.
Rural electification: even hard-core libertarians admit that private industry could never have developed rural America as efficiently as did government.
Interstate highways: Nobody in their right mind believes private industry could do a better job than government in this area.
Voting: we never had near the election problems before the vote was privatized.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:03 pmName something the government does better than private industry……
Comment by Kevin
Are you saying that you would want to privatize the police?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:04 pmName something the government does better than private industry……
Who pays?
Comment by Kevin — July 25, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Provide essential utilities like energy?
Create and develop emerging technologies like the Internet?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pmm12: "You mean Ted Kennedy’s No Child Left Behind?"
OK, now that's the definition of intellectual dishonesty and you know it. Kennedy tried to cooperate with Bush on this. Bush's budgets didn't actually support the program and Kennedy has been very vocal in criticizing how this program has been implimented. I'm assuming you know all of this.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pmAre you saying that you would want to privatize the police?
Comment by dlet — July 25, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Don't forget we used to have private fire departments...that worked out really well.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pm"It’s not a question of morals. It’s a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief.
Comment by Boudin Bob"
Hey Bob, Hitler would have been very happy to have you as one of his own. And you would have fit in just fine.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pmI thought that Bush was the guy who didn't leave children behind. Whats up with this? Does this mean that no child left behind was just a campaign slogan and that the Chimpmeister lied to us again?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pmNo no no, you HAVE to have an abortion because babies will only cause more global warming. Every time the little aholes fart, they add carbon to the atmosphere and that is UNACCEPTABLE.
What we should do is pour all of our funds into building Interpretive Cultural Centers where Americans can learn what total bastards they are and how the rest of the world is blameless for anything bad that happens.
We can also send money to Castro, Chavez, Kim and Ahmadinnerjacket to partially pay them back for our unfair policies that forced them to slaughter and imprison their own people.
Break out the guitars, Bin Laden can be swayed by a little brotherly kumbaya bullshit, he just needs to know he is LOVED!
/sarca....wait...I never put the sarcasm on. Hmm.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pmMedicare: the operational overhead for Medicare is 2 to 3%, while insurance based healthcare is 25 to 35% for profit-based and about 20% for non-profit.
Never mind that Medicare spends $400b+ annually and is on the path to bankruptcy as it is.....
Maybe we should get rid of mandates like the Clean Water and Air Acts.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pmHey, lets make the amount of fires the local fire department puts out linked to their profits. I wonder if the number of arsons would go up?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:06 pmBush is a heartless SOB.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pmwhile at the same time
slighting your distinguished military service…
- l c scan
sure what it looks like to me, sarge…
Comment by katy
distinguished? katy, you're too kind. But yeah, I saw the slight. I gave it the benefit of the doubt, there....but...
July 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pmI have a gut feeling (you know, like the one Chertoff had, but not as dangerous) that this is Joker, who not only insulted my son but, I suspect, name jacked me once before, including the link. On the off chance that I'm wrong about who it is, I decided to be civil.
Comment by War4Sale — July 25, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Wasn't rural electrification, although a bit old, something the US government did quite well? As was the socialist economy of WWII.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pmThis topic really makes me mad each and every time it comes up.
Whoever is against universal healthcare, and there are many ways to ensure, that everybody has access, is expecting you to look at your sick baby and decide to let him/her get worse, so your child is sick enough for the emergency room! Should you, not being a doctor, misinterpret any symptoms and your baby dies, is that considered just bad luck? This is disgusting!
I lived in two countries with universal healthcare, it is mandatory to be insured, it's the law(!), and I never experienced any of the downsides, like having to wait ages for treatment or anything. My father was a doctor and, while we weren't rich, we were comfortably well off, although he worked in a country with universal healthcare.
So maybe the difference between being comfortably well off and being rich makes for the standpoint of US doctors to universal healthcare. But the health and well being of children, the most fragile and helpless members of society, are much closer to my heart, than the greed of medicinal entrepreneurs, for whom "doctor" is a mere title, not a calling.
I'm ranting again, this topic does that to me. Sorry to the regulars here.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pmOK, now that’s the definition of intellectual dishonesty and you know it. Kennedy tried to cooperate with Bush on this. Bush’s budgets didn’t actually support the program and Kennedy has been very vocal in criticizing how this program has been implimented. I’m assuming you know all of this.
That's because Ted Kennedy, as you know, is a two faced hypocrite.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:08 pmProvide essential utilities like energy?
Big Oil is actually Big Government? Holy moly, dont let this get back to Hillary, she might actually decide to take profits from the government to give back to the...uh...government.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:08 pmHey Bob, Hitler would have been very happy to have you as one of his own. And you would have fit in just fine.
Comment by bilbobaggins
Yeah, but he could only have been a brown-shirt, Bob's only 11.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:09 pmMaybe we should get rid of mandates like the Clean Water and Air Acts.
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
Great idea! In fact, why don't you convince the Republican candidate to make that the centerpiece of his campaign? I dare you!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:09 pmm12, Clinton is not my "hero." I admire Clinton and I think he was a far more competent president than we have now.
But, no matter how you torture the numbers, the fact remains that the congressional funding will provide healthcare for 4.1 million more children and Bush's plan will result in less children covered. This is according to the OMB.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:10 pmWhy universal healthcare? Is it somehow essential?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:10 pmAnother idea. Lets privatize clean drinking water. We could sell it more for the price of gasoline. Yet people could still get just a good of product from their tap.(That's where most bottling companies get it from anyways...good lobbyists) Oh....wait...that's been done.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWe must continus to buy poisoned dog food and other dangerous foods from communist china you stoopit liberals. We need healthy chinese communists to support our sickly illiterate fellow Americans and protect our homeland from those healthy Iraqi terrorists with their newly built infrastucture!
YOU STOOPIT LIBERALS!!! We need our Islamic extremist and communist enemies to be healthy and strong and our people stupid and weak and dumb!!
You mean
Ted Kennedy’sGOP No Child Left Behind?Comment by m12
Maybe we should get rid of mandates like the Clean Water and Air Acts. Comment by m12
Hey hows that faith based initiative not working for ya? Yeh we need to have our lakes polluted like Chinas with smelly fungus to make our stoopit poor sickly Americans suffer from inhaling pollutants and drinking fetid water. Why lets bring lead based paint back!! Them sickly little kids can eat paint!!!!
Money is my God! Long live Mammon!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:11 pmGreat idea! In fact, why don’t you convince the Republican candidate to make that the centerpiece of his campaign? I dare you!
Well, according to the left, the Republican party is dead. It's up to the Democrats to get rid of these mandates, and others like OSHA and HIPAA.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:12 pmMaybe we should get rid of mandates like the Clean Water and Air Acts.=
Comment by m12
Yes! Let's just wallow in out own feces while we're at it. My momma always said lead makes the water sweeter. Hmmm.......hmmm
July 25th, 2007 at 5:12 pmm12: "That’s because Ted Kennedy, as you know, is a two faced hypocrite."
Look, I know you're only 14 years old, but that's no excuse. You ought to be able to make some sense by now. My children had more critical thinking skills in grammar school than you appear to have.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:12 pm"won’t be allowed to win in 2008.
Comment by Boudin Bob "
So Bob, how are you going to "not allow" the Democrats to win? The only thing I can think of is for the Republicans to take total control of our government by having Bush declare Martial Law. Is that what you are looking forward to?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:12 pmBut, no matter how you torture the numbers, the fact remains that the congressional funding will provide healthcare for 4.1 million more children and Bush’s plan will result in less children covered. This is according to the OMB.
And no matter how much you whine about the numbers, in 1 year, Bush has proposed more money for SCHIP than the first 42 Presidents combined!
That's real generosity!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:13 pmNational Defense?
Food and Drug Inspection?
Provide ALL of our Infrastructure?
Comment by erock — July 25, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
Try and steal something from Microsoft.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:14 pmIsn't this the year of the food recall? Most started voluntarily by the companies.
give an example. I have one. The US postal service vs. UPS. Who do you use?
I am for a veto. This "children's health care" plan is NOT free. $35 billion more a years means more taxes for someone. And of all people, you try and overly tax poor Americans through an increase in a smoking tax. Do you think more tax of smokes will get these people to quit? If so, your children health plan won't get the money anyways. If you think they won't quit (they won't, they are ADDICTED!), then your stealing from poor Americans to fund more entitlement programs. Either way, this is evil legislation at its finest.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:14 pmCowtown: "Why universal healthcare? Is it somehow essential?"
Yes, health and healthcare is essential. For citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, it is a right. Is your position that we are unable to accomplish what every other industrialized nation on the planet has done?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pmIf Congress actually cared about this country or its people, they'd cut this vacation short, to a week at most, and get back to work.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pmComment by Roger_Roger — July 25, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Shhhh! Don't try to confuse the 'I want my free lunch' liberals!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pmerock,
July 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pmAs a protest to the government providing us with things that should be privatized please refrain from driving on any govt paved roads. That'll show 'em.
We need to jack-up the minimum wage to twenty bucks per hour, that would be fair, while simaltaneously forcing companies to keep everyone employed even if their job is extraneous or outdated.
You make wooden shoes? Great, take a seat over there. You build covered wagons? How grand, you get an office with a view. Your only skill is dusting? Marvelous, here is your $100,000 salary.
Stupid ass conservatives just dont understand modern business techniques! But dont worry, big government is here to educate you whether you like it or not. Give us your money, sit down and shut up.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:16 pmin an unexpected turn of events,†the conservative leadership announced that it is caving to President Bush’s demands and is objecting to the legislation.
I don’t see why following your commander-in-chief’s policy would be that strange.
Comment by Boudin Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Because it isn't very prudent to keep backing a documented moron who is an absolute failure and the worst president in US history , skid mark......
July 25th, 2007 at 5:17 pmYes, health and healthcare is essential.
So is food. Should we have universal food supplies for everyone, provided by the government? Everyone gets the same food just as everyone is given the same healthcare?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pmWell, according to the left, the Republican party is dead. It’s up to the Democrats to get rid of these mandates, and others like OSHA and HIPAA.
Comment by m12
Yeh we need these stoopit liberals to fall off more buildings and get buried in the concrete! we need to defeat communism by destroying the water, the air, the minds and hearts of Americans and have them living in unsafe, delapidated, lead painted crates built by untrained engineers with leaky septic systems and steam pipes that blow up at regular intervals and we should make them drink that leftover nuclear plutonium waste water leaking from the storage pits so they glow in the dark!! Why your a satanic moral majority value voter genius m12!
Money before mankind! m12 has great WussDumb!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pmIf Congress actually cared about this country or its people, they’d cut this vacation short, to a week at most, and get back to work.
What work? All the idiot Democrats can do is fund wars and obstruct nominations!
And you can be on vacation and manage the latter...
July 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pmRead This!
http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2007/07/25/jprowearrest0722.html
THEN...
Watch this!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3837554806768067398
SPREAD THE WORD!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pm"Why universal healthcare? Is it somehow essential?"
Yes, because the right to health should be exactly that, a "right", and not a privilege. We are the only industrialized nation that thinks that health care is a privilege and not a right. It's sick and downright embarrassing.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:19 pmRogerx2: that's not fair -- we're the "I want my MTV" librals!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pmKevin: "Try and steal something from Microsoft.
Isn’t this the year of the food recall? Most started voluntarily by the companies.
give an example. I have one. The US postal service vs. UPS. Who do you use?"
Kevin, people steal things from Microsoft every day. And, yes, a lot of food is being recalled. This is because the current administration has cut back on regulations and the quality of food production has gone to hell. And, flash: the Postal Service was privatized years ago. It used to run better and cheaper when it was completely government run.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pmYes, because the right to health should be exactly that, a “rightâ€, and not a privilege. We are the only industrialized nation that thinks that health care is a privilege and not a right. It’s sick and downright embarrassing.
Why?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pm1. Kevin, please explain to us why Americans don’t deserve the same access to care that the rest of the civilized world has.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pmComment by War4Sale — July 25, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Americans don’t deserve to wait 6 weeks for an MRI. Or 6 months for an elective surgery, like say a knee replacement. They deserve to make choices without the government forcing someone else’s idea on us.
So is food. Should we have universal food supplies for everyone, provided by the government? Everyone gets the same food just as everyone is given the same healthcare?
Comment by CowTown
That's kind of like saying everyone should get the same roads. The Govt is involve in food. It's "supposed" to ensure that our food supply is safe for EVERYONE. (Just not the stuff from China.....they have to get rid of their toxic waste somehow)
July 25th, 2007 at 5:21 pmagain I bring up this issue... why does our tax payer money go towards this while other countries only pay a fraction to their defense.
Why...? because we are lining the pockets of corporate thugs while dwindling the funds ... purposefully ...towards our social programs.
Spending this is an outrage when we have 18,000 a year tax payers dying because of denied access to health care.
What happened to WE THE PEOPLE? When did it change to THEY THE THUGS?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:21 pmComment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
And all the idiot Republicraps can do is START wars and obstruct supporting the troops...
July 25th, 2007 at 5:22 pmPart of the problem I see here is that people really don't understand capitalism. The Father of Capitalism, Adam Smith actually believed that capitalism only works for a society when it is regulated. Every time capitalism has gone for any amount of time without strict regulation, it has self-destructed. The good news for liberals is that these periods of self-destruction have always resulted in populist uprisings which have always created stong middle classes.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:23 pmIt’s not a question of morals. It’s a question of obedience. Senators are doing what they are supposed to do: following the order of the commander-in-chief.
Comment by Boudin Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
That's seriously flawed thinking, Boudin Bob.
Beside the fact that the Senators do not work for the president, and he is not their commander in chief.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:23 pmSo is food. Should we have universal food supplies for everyone, provided by the government? Everyone gets the same food just as everyone is given the same healthcare?
Comment by CowTown
No, we must buy poisoned pickles from communist china! We must buy more goods from communist china!! We need more poison pet food!! We need lead paint and cars that get 2 mpg with no catalytic converters! We need to create smog to stop global warming! We need antique jet engines that blow plumes of black smoke! We need dirty technology to save the world!! We need more lung cancer and fatty fried foods!! We don't need colleges we need labor farms!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:23 pmComment by ace — July 25, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Umm, spread what word?
Ace, This guy was picked up as a deserter. Is this a conspiracy because he just happened to put out a 9/11 conspiracy film?
Take a deep breath, wouldn't want you to be too winded before the fed's start chasing you.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:23 pmIf Congress actually cared about this country or its people, they’d cut this vacation short, to a week at most, and get back to work.
What work? All the idiot Democrats can do is fund wars and obstruct nominations!
And you can be on vacation and manage the latter…
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
You mean the "noble cause" claimed by your retarded simian hero ?
And all the horseshit GOP can do is start idiotic wars and lose them , and lie the whole time .....
July 25th, 2007 at 5:24 pmMan these conservatives are dumb. Dont they know that energy has been documented to appear out of nowhere? We dont need to develop our own sources of energy as we demand to cut ourselves off from foreign sources, the earth will provide.
Who needs heat and A/C anyway, those conserative fools in Minnesota can run in place to keep warm and those dunces in Florida can make themselves a paper fan to cool off. We need to stop processing oil and coal and also refuse to build nuke plants or windmill farms off Hyannisport, all we need is each other. Fuel the nation with love and and hugs, thats what I say!
Capitalism is a deadend. I can make my own clothing from weeds, plus I can eat my shirt when I get hungry. Dumb conservatives trying to keep the strongest economy that has ever existed alive, what kind of dolts are you?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:24 pmFeed the poor?
Keep orphans alive?
Negotiate Treaties?
Collect taxes?
Maintain our national parks?
Comment by erock — July 25, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
You don’t really think the government does a better job than the Salvation Army or the red cross do you?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:24 pmWhat?
Lawyers.
They have a monopoly on that. But if you want a better system check out Fairtax.org.
That are on fire. I don’t see many fires in Bush Gardens’ or some privately owned botanical gardens..
m12, if you're asking why we are the only nation that doesn't treat healthcare as a right, the answer is that large corporations have more political power here than anywhere else.
If you're asking why this is sick and embarassing, the answer is simply common decency and patriotism.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:26 pmLoose Change Producer kidnapped by Army:
http://www.prisonplanet.com./articles/july2007/250707neoconscheer.htm
July 25th, 2007 at 5:26 pmagain I bring up this issue… why does our tax payer money go towards this - see what's the story with this pie,@ http://www.truemajority.com/ while other countries only pay a fraction to their defense.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:26 pmThat’s kind of like saying everyone should get the same roads. The Govt is involve in food.
Paying to inspect food is not the same as paying to provide it. The government does not provide food, it merely monitors the safety of it.
Food is essential, why should not the government provide food to the people as it should healthcare? In fact food is MORE essential than healthcare since you cant survive at all without the chow.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:27 pm"Yes, because the right to health should be exactly that, a “rightâ€, and not a privilege. We are the only industrialized nation that thinks that health care is a privilege and not a right. It’s sick and downright embarrassing.
Why?
Comment by m12 "
There is no way I could explain it to you since you have no soul and no compassion. Any human being who doesn't think that their brothers and sisters have a right to heath care when sick is lacking a soul and therefore has no compassion. Do you really care about that baby that is going to die because it's parents can't afford health insurance and can't afford to take the baby to the hospital? What if it was you and that child was yours. Oh, I know, your answer will be "Well that never would be me because I'm such a special person I will never be in a position where I don't have health insurance".
July 25th, 2007 at 5:28 pmKevin: "You don’t really think the government does a better job than the Salvation Army or the red cross do you?"
Of course the government does a better job than the Salvation Army and the Red Cross, but only when the people in government are competent. Ask the people of Florida how FEMA worked for them after the largest hurricanes of the 90's.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:30 pmI think one of Bush's polyups survived and named itself Cow Town.
Paying to inspect food is not the same as paying to provide it. The government does not provide food, it merely monitors the safety of it
Comment by CowTown
Okay. The government should prvide the inspection of the food. And yes they do provide food to those that qualify for it. Just like it would be for universal health care. Its there for everyone that needs it and qualifies for it and if you want something better...pay for it...like you do now.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:30 pmWord of the day:
Kakistocracy. n. Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:31 pmDumb conservatives trying to keep the strongest economy that has ever existed alive, what kind of dolts are you?
Yeh, we need dirty air and water and dumbed down kids with no health care! We need another industrial age of Robber Barons! We need slums, prostitutes, pollution and gang wars! We need our skys darkened with the soot of industry!! Money before life! We need more Child Labor! We need petri dishes of greed like in the Mariannas! We need to buy more goods from poor destitute countries!! We need a bigger housing slump! We need more disparity amd more pot smoking Paris Hiltons!! We need more coke spoonLindsey Lohans YAY!!! We need more illegal drugs!! We need more drunk drivers!! We need more idiot papparazzi to follow the blonde haired bimbos around and make their dastardly deeds seem okay!! More bimbos in jail!! More idiot media!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:31 pmDo you really care about that baby that is going to die because it’s parents can’t afford health insurance and can’t afford to take the baby to the hospital?
Name a single hospital that would turn away this baby. Why do you think illegal immigrants always use the emergency room?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:31 pmCowTown,
One other thing about providing food. What do you think all those farmer subsidies do? Lower costs to the farmer to provide food to the country?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:32 pmI usually don't use such language, but the trolls here are a twisted, hard-hearted, cynical, evil, vampiric, disgusting and sociopathic flock of simpleminded a***holes.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:33 pmGreenguyfromStartrek: capitalism is not dead. It works fine when it is regulated. That's just one reason why the Euro and the Pound are stronger currencies than the Dollar.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:33 pmName a single hospital that would turn away this baby. Why do you think illegal immigrants always use the emergency room?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:33 pmComment by CowTown
Have you ever been to an emergency room that is used by people that don't have insurance?
Kevin: “You don’t really think the government does a better job than the Salvation Army or the red cross do you?
Why Halliburton has done a great job at rebuilding the infrastructure of iraq and bringing our troops bad water while overcharging the taxpayers!!!
We need to lose 8 billion more dollars in Iraq!! Just put it on a plane and fly it in!!
And Yes I'm a conservative just like Brittney Spears!! I'm gonna go to rehab soon and meet me a trophy wife!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:34 pmCowtown: "Name a single hospital that would turn away this baby."
Come on, shitheal. There's a case history of a baby dying after being turned away from a hospital in "Sicko." Nobody has even tried to argue that it isn't a true story.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pmQuestion for all you trollie-boys is whether you trust unregulated big business? Got Vioxx? Got Ford Escorts? Got Dead Pets? Got Child Labor?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pmI don’t see why following your commander-in-chief’s policy would be that strange.
Comment by Boudin Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Are you really this clueless? The congress is not in the military and Bush is not their commander-in-chief. The member of the house and senate are elected by the people in their states to do the right thing. They are not elected to blindly follow an ideology.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhat we need to do is get rid of the evil corporations that are the source of all evil and are evil and do evil things and are really really evil.
Ok ok so they have provided us with luxury and comfort, modern medicines, nutritious food, flush toilets and a standard of living which allows us all sorts of spare time to do things like surf the internet....who cares?
They are evil and need to be demolished. Let the government take over providing us with everything. Dont you doltish conservatives understand that all we really need is a padded Mao jacket, a pre-fab one room apartment and a job at the broom factory?
Standing in bread lines is GOOD for you, keeps the circulation going.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pmWarren Buffet has called for a tax increase. So has Bill Gates.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pmPart of the problem I see here is that people really don’t understand capitalism.
The real problem is - is that Reagan made health care a for profit. Before that it was understood profiting from health care was immoral. Health care costs then were not out of bounds as it is today. And look where we are in 20 years: An average family of 4 pays $900 to $1300 per month for health insurance and with that, an insurance with such poor coverage many have to claim bankruptsy.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:37 pmI'm very much in favor of funding children's healthcare, but should it be funded again by another tobacco tax increase then I am opposed to it. If the country is in favor of a program then it should act like it. Seeking funding through one group of people is disengeuous. Either you're for the program or not and you are willing to pay for it.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:37 pmWhy not a tax on snacks, which cause huge health problems for children? A tax on too much T.V. which takes away time from exercise?
Cowtown: "Food is essential, why should not the government provide food to the people as it should healthcare?"
Because delivering food to our population has not been a problem. In fact, we have an obesity problem here. The problem is healthcare and no amount of silly strawman arguments will change that.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pm"That’s so hypothetical that I won’t even bother answering it. Face it. Hillary (or any dem for that matter) won’t be allowed to win in 2008."
Comment by Boudin Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
The only way the Repubs will win the White House in 2008 will be if they practice caging on a huge scale to disenfranchise as many Dem voters as possible, and if they tamper with the electronic voting machines. Hmmm --- come to think of it, they just may win. They've already shown they aren't above doing these things.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:40 pmhad enough, the CEO of one of our HMO Corporations received $1.3 BILLION in compensation last year.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:40 pmComment by leftcoast — July 25, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
Love the sarcy left coast. I'm a smoker and it's right I pay a fortune in tax (last time I checked it was something like 80% of the retail price) as my decision to smoke harms others and takes resources away from people who have made the decision to live the healthy life.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:41 pmStill haven't heard from any conservative here that believes the police and fire department should be privatized like our health care system is. Really...Why so silent on this? Everything would be better privatized...wouldn't it?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:41 pmCome on, shitheal. There’s a case history of a baby dying after being turned away from a hospital in “Sicko.†Nobody has even tried to argue that it isn’t a true story.
Did I hit a nerve there, jack, or are you a typical lib who resorts to cursing to prop up a failing argument? And its "shitheel", not "heal". Duh.
Where was this baby, what were the circumstances, what is the case study? Sicko also claimed that Cuba had the greatest health care system in the region, even though thats been heavily refuted and Castro had to fly-in a Spanish surgeon to operate on him.
If a soundbite from Sicko is the best you can do, perhaps you should keep up the name-calling, you obviously need it. Remember, its "heel".
July 25th, 2007 at 5:42 pmWhy is our health care system ranked number 37, below that of Morocco, Cyprus, as well as almost every country in Europe? Do you think that proves that our private health care system works?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pmmissmolly, keep in mind that Ohio elections are under the control of Democrats now and in Florida, they might even go to paper ballots. Nope. The Repubs are toast and they know it. Obstructing healthcare for children is just another nail in their coffin.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:44 pmleftcoast,
July 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pmWhile I agree with you on overtaxing tobacco products is wrong and the laws about smoking in public places also....I think that govt places like schools and such should not be paid by private companies to provide our kids food. They go cheap and we get coca-cola and pizza for lunch. There is nothing wrong there were days they dropped children down chimneys to clean them because they fit. Healthy society, more production, more intelligence, better democracy.
We need more greedy lobbysists, we need fascism, we need guys more limos and whores and guys like Cunningham! We need more of this type of conservatism to save our morals and our values!! We need more cash in the freezers to keep our economy strong! We need more special interest groups and pork barrel bridges to nowhere!! We need to pay people as little as possible so they cannot buy those goods that make our economy strong!! We need more poor uneducated sikly dolts, people that cannot buy American made goods so we can support communist china!! We must buy our oil from Mad Mullah countries and support Islamic Extremism to keep our economy strong!! We need sweat shops to bolster our economy and rob Americans of real paying jobs!! We need the housing bubble to burst so we can have empty homes that people cannot afford!!
YAY! Mammon YAY! Go Avarice!!! YAY! Forget Jesus turning the tables of the money changers!! We need USURY!!! USURY!!!
July 25th, 2007 at 5:47 pmThe only way the Repubs will win the White House in 2008 will be if they practice caging on a huge scale to disenfranchise as many Dem voters as possible, and if they tamper with the electronic voting machines.
You would think the republicans would have done such a thing in '06 when the results were so crucial, why didnt they? And if they couldnt accomplish it then, how will they possibly do it in 2008?
I crack up when I see this tack from the left because its so pathetic. When the dems win an election they claim its America voting for positive change, when they lose its the evil republicans hacking into the voting booths.
No introspection, no critique of their own message or the quality of their candidates, just finger-pointing and hysterical claims of a conspiracy. What a joke.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:47 pmWhy does the Republic party hate me?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pmIf only the little children had oil, then I am sure they would have no trouble at all in getting a government handout
Bush is just showing his true christianity again. That God Damned liberal Jesus, with his "suffer the little children to come unto me".... crap.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pmCowtown: "Sicko also claimed that Cuba had the greatest health care system in the region, even though thats been heavily refuted and Castro had to fly-in a Spanish surgeon to operate on him."
Hey, y'all is the one called "cowtown," cowboy. I'm not surprised that you know the correct spelling of shitheel. If you knew thing one about "Sicko," and didn't just get your propaganda fed to you by corporate criminals, you would know that it is clear in Sicko that Cuba is ranked 39th in the world as opposed to our 37th ranking. Somehow, though, Cubans have a longer life expectancy and better infant mortality rates than the most powerful country in the world. Are you proud that we can't beat a pissant little third-world country when it comes to life expectancy and infant mortality? I'm not.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pmCowTown,
July 25th, 2007 at 5:49 pmPrivatized police and fire departments. Your introspection, critique if you will. Please enlighten us.
151: So you'll have a laugh riot after the 2008 elections.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:50 pmStill haven’t heard from any conservative here that believes the police and fire department should be privatized like our health care system is. Really…Why so silent on this? Everything would be better privatized…wouldn’t it?
Perhaps no one here outside of Kevin(?) believes in such a thing. I certainly dont.
Im still waiting for an answer as to why the government shouldnt be supplying the public with universal nutrition, a necessity far greater than that of healthcare.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:50 pmCowtown: "You would think the republicans would have done such a thing in ‘06 when the results were so crucial, why didnt they? And if they couldnt accomplish it then, how will they possibly do it in 2008?"
They did try, but their attempts were overwhelmed by strong popular turnout for Dems and a groundswell of disgust for republican scandals in their own base. The republicans' efforts to supress voting are well-documented. If you want to ignore the evidence, that's your right.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:51 pmCowTown: Why can't the federal goverment back off and bring back child labor? Isn't that what you want, free enterprise?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pmThese messages have been brough to you by the Orwellian Conservative council of the moral majority and the value voters and lovers of life -Signed Mr Neo-Conservative Goldwater the IV.
No Apoligies.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pmthe CEO of one of our HMO Corporations received $1.3 BILLION in compensation last year.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
July 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pmWhat an outrage... while folks are going bankrupt or losing their homes for the scraps of health care available... and doesn't this play into the wish of the neocons - to dissolve the middle class?
Cowtown: and while were at at, let's get rid of that pesky minimum wage and 40 hour work week. Big business will set the market on wages and hours. You'd like that, wouldn't you.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:53 pmPerhaps no one here outside of Kevin(?) believes in such a thing. I certainly dont.
Comment by CowTown
Wow. You admit some things should be socialized. So what is greater...a burning building or a person with cancer that has no insurance and can not afford PROPER treatment?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:53 pmI honestly believe the Republicans don't know what to do: actually pass legislation and work for the betterment of the country, or keep paying Bush's blackmail. Rove's opposition research must have something on each and every Republican (and a few Democrats, I'm sure). Repubs remind me of ducks at the carnival that go back and forth every time you hit one. Bing . . . bing . . . bing, or maybe a ping ball game. People are beginning to understand what flip-flopping, off-the-wall, obstructionists Repubs have become.
What does Karl have on all of them?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:54 pmCowtown: "Im still waiting for an answer as to why the government shouldnt be supplying the public with universal nutrition, a necessity far greater than that of healthcare."
I already answered that one. Delivering food to our general population is not a problem. There is hunger among the poor and there are programs to attempt to deal with that. Delivering healthcare to the population is a problem.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:55 pmYoure boring jack, trite, juvenile and boring. You use Sicko as a basis to refute an argument instead of delving a little deeper into the causes and claims. You must feel bad that I had to correct your slur, the only thing you seem to be good at.
Find someone else to talk to, your level of debate is better suited for the simple minded.
Cheers
July 25th, 2007 at 5:55 pmIm still waiting for an answer as to why the government shouldnt be supplying the public with universal nutrition, a necessity far greater than that of healthcare.
Comment by CowTown
The govt pays for the police...you don't have to call them. The govt provides schools...you don't have to use them. The govt provides roads...you don't have to drive on them. The govt provides USDA graded food...you don't have to eat it. The govt provides mail service at a lower cost...you don't have to use it. And on and on.....
July 25th, 2007 at 5:56 pm157: The goverment has tried to feed the poor through lunch subsidies, but the g.o.p. keeps trying to cut the programs.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:56 pmWhy does the g.o.p. hate children?
No introspection, no critique of their own message or the quality of their candidates, just finger-pointing and hysterical claims of a conspiracy. What a joke.
Comment by CowTown
I don't know about conspiracies. However the Diebold accu-vote systems are based on Windows CE. Windows, as we all know, is extremely hackable and poorly written (C++) systems. There are some 70,000 virii/trojans at this time. Furthermore studies done at several universities have published how to hack these closed source code machines. Voting machines should not be based on windows and should be written in a much more secure computing language such as Java and should be open source code.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:57 pmCowTown: Why can’t the federal goverment back off and bring back child labor? Isn’t that what you want, free enterprise?
Ok, Im imagining a number, tell me what it is? Whats that, you cant read my mind? Huh.
If you want to talk then talk, dont try to create a controversy by trying to tell me what you think I believe. I smell straw.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:58 pmGOD BLESS RET. COL JACK RIPPER. Turning the right wing into a bunch of wimpering trollie-boys.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:59 pmcowtown, if you don't think Sicko is a suitable place to find facts, how about Paul Krugman. Krugman points out that the British healthcare system provides better healthcare for its citizens at 40% of the cost of our system. Krugman is where I got the information on overhead. Medicare overhead is 2 to 3% as opposed to our insurance based system which has an overhead of 25 to 35%.
Look if you want to slink away and crawl back into your hole, go ahead. But, don't try to act like your delicate sensibilities were destroyed by my lack of respect for your position. Just slink away, sociopath.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:00 pmThats cool NCLB, now if you believe that the machines are being hacked all you need to do is prove that republicans are the only ones doing the hacking. Virture and honesty are not a strict purview of either party.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pmCowtown: I suspect it's number 69.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pmWhy does the Republic party hate me?
Comment by bigeyedchild — July 25, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Because you're no longer a big eyed fetus. You're on your own, kid.
Buck up, little buckaroo!
July 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI smell straw.
Comment by CowTown
That's the best line so far. Does that straw smell pissy...'cause maybe you're standing in it.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:02 pmIsn't it odd how the right-wing trolls come to this site to practice their sociopathic behavior?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:03 pmOffensive? Bush gave much more money to SCHIP than Bill Clinton ever did!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
Enrollment in the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) grew 70 percent in fiscal year 2000, from 1.9 million to 3.3 million. Total SCHIP spending increased to $2.8 billion in 2000, up from $1.8 billion in 1999.
Bush’s proposal is $30 billion over 5 years, or $6 billion annually. Currently, its at $5 billion.
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Fiscal years 1999, 2000 and 2001 budgets were formulated during the Clinton administration. In addition, Bush’s proposal is $6 billion over 5 years, or $1 billion annually. It is the Democratic House and Senate that have proposed $30 billion over 5 years, or $6 billion annually.
You are repudiated on a daily basis for the misinformation that you spew on this identical subject.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:04 pmCowtown: "Thats cool NCLB, now if you believe that the machines are being hacked all you need to do is prove that republicans are the only ones doing the hacking."
The CEO of Diebold is a Bush "Pioneer." He promised before the 2004 election to "deliver Ohio to Bush." Now, why would this guy be paying people to hack votes to help Democrats? Cowboy, you're just not making much sense.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:04 pmThe goverment has tried to feed the poor through lunch subsidies, but the g.o.p. keeps trying to cut the programs.
Why does the g.o.p. hate children?
One could assume that supporters of universal healthcare took the time to study the definition of "universal". I will assume for the moment that you understand the colloquial use of the word and know that universal health care is meant to provide for everyone, not just the poor.
Again, if health care is essential and food is essential (even more so than healthcare) why should not the government provide universal nutrition to the American people?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:04 pm176: They come here to escape right wing censorship and to enjoy free discussion of the issues.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:05 pmrogerSquared
Smoking is bad for both the rich and poor. Many will quit, but those
July 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pmthat cannot/will not will simply pay more. It is a choice after all.
I do not see the problem with having this extra tax money save the lives of children. your priorities and moral are trully whacked you evil bastard. I can only hope that you work for a living - because then maybe just maybe you may find your self poor - and maybe then you may know empathy.
That’s the best line so far. Does that straw smell pissy…’cause maybe you’re standing in it.
Any actual point to make that is germane to the discussion or are you purposely regressing down to jack's level?
Any adults here want to have a valid give and take or am I wasting my time? We can duke it out and air our best persuasions, but having a pissing match gets old quick.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:07 pmCowtown: "Again, if health care is essential and food is essential (even more so than healthcare) why should not the government provide universal nutrition to the American people?"
You don't read too well do y'all. For the third time, delivering food to our population is not a widespread problem. Delivering healthcare IS a widespread problem - 45 million of us get none at all. Get it, cowboy? Or do we need to dumb things down for you even more?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:07 pmPresident Bush knows what's best to spend the taxpayers money on. Iraq oil and pay offs are more important then children's health care. If you can't afford health care just die. Look our troops are dying because of lack of health care so why would money go to children. Bush/Cheney will be able to give Billions to big businesses and contractors. 280 Million American dollars was stolen from the Green Zone in the safest place in Iraq. The Bank to totally control by the United States yet someone broke in and stole all of the money and there is no investigation into who did it. Bush only ask the Congress replace the stolen money.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pmComment by CowTown
Well I live in Texas and I can tell you that you won't find very many educated and enlightened people in CowTown. They are usually very nice friendly and helpful people who are not greedy at all. They are hardworkers and quite fair. The fact is we spend 12 billion a month for a quagmire in Iraq that may go on for another decade and serves to undermine the GWOT. Afghanistans opium crop is bumper. The Taliban is on the rebound. Bush sr and Scowcroft realized that an extended war in Iraq would de-stabilize the middle east and undermine the shadowy war on terror.
Thats cool NCLB, now if you believe that the machines are being hacked all you need to do is prove that republicans are the only ones doing the hacking. Virture and honesty are not a strict purview of either party. Comment by CowTown
I specifically did not mention political parties for the reason you just posted. Virtue and Honesty are not party specific and it would be foolish of me to entertain such a thought. Im simply pointing out the machines are not secure by any means. The hacks that I have seen do not leave a fingerprint. Much like a 'rootkit' could be operating on your computer right now and you would not know it because of the stealth techniques used today.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pmComment by bigeyedchild — July 25, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
I'm very lucky, the company I work for has a 35 hour working week and offers it's staff flexi-time. It's belting. When the workload is massive I happily work 12-14 hours a day, knowing that for the next few weeks I can work 10:00-16:00.
Hey, if the company that employs you is flexible it makes you more loyal and increases productivity.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:09 pmCowtown: Do you want bush to veto the children's health care legislation? If so, why?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:10 pmActually, the Democratic proposal is a degree of increase while W is touting a total. The difference between helping the poor ($24 billion) and helping the rich ($500 billion) is a trivial matter.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:12 pmI wasnt throwing a dig your way NCLB, it was just a side comment that included an earlier post claiming that republicans were hacking the Diebold machines.
I meant to provide edification (your post about the Diebold programming language assisted with this) that a hackable voting machine would be hackable by anyone, not just republicans.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:14 pmCowtown: Do you want bush to veto the children’s health care legislation? If so, why?
Id have to do more study on it. The thing about bills is that all sorts of things are included that have nothing to do with the bill topic; I dont know if thats the case or not here so Ill have to take the fifth and say "Im not sure".
July 25th, 2007 at 6:16 pmI am not a democrat, and for the record (A Jason jingle) I am Sovereign.
I understand Capitalism but I also have read the Polity IV charts that show disparity in America is quite high. Free Markets are good but we should not only think about the bottom line and we should moderate ourselves. Money today is not backed by gold and is nothing more than an promissory note. Its like monopoly money. We shouldn't horde it and we should moderate ourselves and not put this green paper before the welfare of our great country. I am on the verge of becoming an Isolationist and saying to hell with China and cheap goods and to hell with the oil rich countries. Let them choke on their overpopulation and oil. Im an American by God not a supporter of Islam or Communism.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pmIf you’re asking why this is sick and embarassing, the answer is simply common decency and patriotism.
So the founding fathers were unpatriotic? Well, ok!
July 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pm190: That's fair.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:18 pmCowtown: "I meant to provide edification (your post about the Diebold programming language assisted with this) that a hackable voting machine would be hackable by anyone, not just republicans."
It's a company which supports Republicans. The CEO is a Bush "Pioneer." To hack the system, you need the code. Now, where is a Democratic operative going to get code and why would a Democrat need to hack a machine in an area with a greater population of Democratic voters than republican? You know, Cowboy, with every lame attempt to present yourself as cultured and sophisticated, you simply demonstrate your uncanny lack of critical thinking skills. And, your silly little attempt to act like I'm not here is fine for you, but remember, other people are reading these posts as well. All it does is confirm that you are a whimpering, cowardly little sociopath who can't stand toe to toe with someone willing to call you on your bullshit.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:18 pmWell hey if it isnt Col. Dumbshit of the 1st HappyAss Division, how you doing today? Still smarting from the asskicking you received last night?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:18 pmId have to do more study on it. The thing about bills is that all sorts of things are included that have nothing to do with the bill topic; I dont know if thats the case or not here so Ill have to take the fifth and say “Im not sureâ€.
Comment by CowTown
I concur as Im sure that there is quite a bit of pork involved. A Line item veto would be a good thing.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:19 pmm12: "So the founding fathers were unpatriotic? Well, ok!"
Where on earth did you get the idea that the Founding Fathers wouldn't have supported universal healthcare. Jefferson pushed for free healthcare for all veterans of the Revolutionary War. The preamble to the constitution includes these words: "We the people..." and "provide for the general welfare."
July 25th, 2007 at 6:20 pmNot matter how you look at it, the uninsured already cost the rest of us money. According to the Kaiser Foundation, local, state, and the federal government are picking up over $42 billion in costs for the care of the uninsured. Families USA estimates that the average family with insurance will be paying $1500 more a year for their insurance by 2010. It could be even higher. It has been noted by economists that all the number of uninsured increase, the costs for the insured is increasing dramatically. Between 2005 and 2006 the average increase for the insured was 7.7% which was twice the rate of inflation.
So the selfish so-called conservatives here have a good reason to support universal health care because it is affecting their precious pocketbooks now. They are just not smart enough to know it.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pmNCLB: How can you be sure that there is "quite a bit of pork involved". Have you read the bill?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pmPicking on someone again I see, and to think that just last night you were riding the high horse when Moon Jumper or whatever his name was got a little smarmy with you.
Private Shatmaster and his talking dog, you do put on a good circus.
Ignore him cow, he talks a big game but always seems to trip over his own size five (ladies) feet.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pmWhy does President Bush hate children?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pmCareful, Startrek boy. You're going to offend the Cowboy's delicate sensibilities.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:23 pmWould you rather pay more taxes to the Federal goverment or more insurance premiums. Do you really trust the health insurance companies (which only answer to their stockholders) more that the elected representatives of our government (you answer to the voters)?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:24 pmYou're a little late, startrek boy. Cowboy has already as much as admitted that he can't argue with me and is ignoring my posts. Poor baby. That's what guys like you do, right. If you can't win an argument, you pretend it doesn't exist.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:25 pm#NCLB: How can you be sure that there is “quite a bit of pork involvedâ€. Have you read the bill? Comment by bigeyedchild — July 25, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
I said I concur which means I haven't seen the pork attached to the bill. As usual congress critters likes dem sum pork. If you have a link that shows not just the bill but the attachments to it, I would be appreciative of that. =)
Anyway, I need a drink, its after 5pm now =)
July 25th, 2007 at 6:25 pmHealth premiums rising twice as fast as the rate of inflation and our health system is ranked number 37 in the world. Maybe the g.o.p. would like the premiums to go up even faster.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:25 pmVote g.o.p. - empower the health care industry.
How much of that health care cost is being generated by illegal aliens? Its no coincidence that cities with high populations of such people are suffering from hospitals being shut because of lack of reimbursement for the services they provide.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:26 pm205: Don't like your health carrier know or they'll drop you from the rolls.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:28 pmCheers.
Startrek Boy: "Picking on someone again I see, and to think that just last night you were riding the high horse when Moon Jumper or whatever his name was got a little smarmy with you."
I was having an argument with a poster called "Starhopper." Is that what babies like you call "picking on someone?" Anyway, Starhopper told me something I didn't know about one of Heinlien's books and I appreciated it and thanked him for it. That's called "being civil." I know it's a very complicated concept for you, but that's what happened. We found common ground. That's a good thing, dumbass.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:29 pm207: Since the illegals can't afford health care coverage, I would say that none of the rising premiums you pay are due to illegals.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:30 pmBy the way, do you approve the billions of dollars being paid to the health care c.e.o.s?
Come now jack(ass), I did a little research here and see that you have been quite the prick, not that Im surprised as you dream about such appendages nightly.
Youre an assholian assaloid, you know it and I know it. If I didnt enjoy watching you hyperventilate like the sissy that you are, I would ignore you too.
Now get back to your broom!
July 25th, 2007 at 6:30 pmStartrek boy, do you have a comment regarding healthcare for children? If so, let's have it. Whether or not I'm a "prick" is irrelevant. Do you have anything of value to offer. If not, I'm sure one of the Startrek franchises is on one of your channels.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pmThat’s called “being civil.†I know it’s a very complicated concept for you, but that’s what happened.
Like tying your shoes, being civil must be complicated for you too. Calling someone a shitheal is civil? You must be a real hoot at parties, at least when youre not feeling-up your guy.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pmI am ego-man!!!!!!!
July 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pmI just love me !!!!!!
I think I'll give myself a hug and a high-five !!!!!
Youre an assholian assaloid, you know it and I know it. If I didnt enjoy watching you hyperventilate like the sissy that you are, I would ignore you too.
Oi! Tempers are running hot tonight!
Congratulations for that wonderful line! "Assholian assaloid" made me LOL.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pmBouden: It's Oye, not Oi.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:34 pmSchmuck.
#216: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!
Screw you.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:37 pmThe ignorance of the Republican base is just amazing. We all know that the United States ranks down there with Cuba and many other third world countries in terms of the leading health indicators for our population. Nevertheless, we spend more on a per capita basis than any other nation in the world for our health care.
One may ask how we can attain such poor results for so much money. Let me count the ways:
1. Lacking universal coverage, the uninsured end up utilizing the most expensive form of care, emergency roorms, with the most acute conditions. These costs will be passed along.
2. Insurance companies are there to make a profit. Most people change insurance companies many times because of employers chasing lower premiums, change in jobs and other causes. As a result, preventive care and chronic disease management hurt short term profits with little long term benefit as the insured moves to another company.
3. Administration and marketing as well as the incredible big pharma lobbying just adds unnecessary costs to our system.
However, we will see the Republican base believing that the country has superior medical care to all others. They will believe that universal coverage will involve government in making medical decisions (as if insurance companies don't do that already with far more greed and self interest as a motivation.) They believe that there will be longer waiting lines, less choice in physician selection and other horror stories which are not true.
Why will they believe it? They do not understand the individual means nothing to the Republican political elite. They do not understand that the Republican elite believes that only the wealthy members of society deserve protection and support from the government. The poor and middle class are lower forms of life to be manipulated, used and discarded.
If you do not believe me, then examine corporate vs individual bankruptcy laws, tort reform, regulation of new drugs or food. Look at who actually writes the laws and regulations under the Bush administration (yes, corporations and their lobbyists.)
So Republican fools, learn your lesson. This is an ownership society. Wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. The ability to rise in this society will be dependent upon how much wealth your family can accrue for education in a privatized system. There will be the owners and the owned. The vast majority of the Republican base will learn that they will be owned.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:37 pmAgain, if health care is essential and food is essential (even more so than healthcare) why should not the government provide universal nutrition to the American people?
Comment by CowTown — July 25, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Hunger is PREDICTABLE. Go without eating awhile and you get Hungry.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:38 pmIllness is like the lottery...unpredictable. Don't Smoke, don't eat Junk, look both ways...and you could still get a catastrophic Illness.That's why people buy insurance....but many can't afford it...and many jobs don't offer it...because 1/3 of it goes to PROFITS. Profiting off peoples misfortunes is Immoral.
Since the illegals can’t afford health care coverage, I would say that none of the rising premiums you pay are due to illegals.
And what causes the premiums to rise, pure greed or a combination of factors? We have medicines that can cure maladies that would have killed you fifty or a hundred years ago, the R&D for such meds isnt free.
Then of course they need to be manufactured and packaged; ever see a capsule filler or a sterile syringe filling machine? There is a barrier machine that packages stroke medicine, the machine costs over three million dollars.
Now would you like to go without the simple medicines that we take for granted, or the ones being developed to hopefully cure the really heinous diseases, or would you like to go back to the days when strep throat or mumps regularly killed people?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:38 pmAll of the sudden Kevin is all "pro-choice" when it comes to health care, and doesn't want the government forcing any choices on us.
Good one Kev Kev.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:39 pmHunger is PREDICTABLE.
Yet people still go without three squares a day or dont have access to the healthy stuff.
Food is essential as is health care, in your case you discuss catastrophic health emergencies. Would you be willing to compromise and provide government-funded catastrophic coverage only?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:41 pmHere's the bottom line: Democrats are trying to ensure that American children have access to healthcare and Bush and his accomplices in the Republican party are trying to block it.
If you think that American children do not deserve healthcare, show your appreciating by voting Republican in the next election.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:42 pmthe Republican elite believes that only the wealthy members of society deserve protection and support from the government. The poor and middle class are lower forms of life to be manipulated, used and discarded.
Ted Kennedy has a poor family living in his house, does he? Pelosi gives away most of her fortune? Kerry sold one of his houses to provide for the downtrodden?
The rich dems arent exactly going out of their way to sacrifice for the masses. Sure they advocate all sorts of ways to spend MY money, conveniently they already have their stashed away. How many normal houses could Edwards have built for what his current mansion will cost?
July 25th, 2007 at 6:45 pmCowtown: "We have medicines that can cure maladies that would have killed you fifty or a hundred years ago, the R&D for such meds isnt free."
This is a common argument corporatists make. The fact is we pay for most American pharmaceutical R&D with tax breaks and public money for big pharma corporations. Almost all R&D is done on the public dime and they get to keep the patents. That's a corporate scam we should do something about.
And, we're already attempting to deal with food as we have for the last 60 years. It's called Food Stamps. As far as nutrition is concerned, a univeral single-payer plan would take care of that because it would be in the interests of society to make sure everyone knows about proper nutrition. The insurance-based system doesn't need to care about that.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:49 pmI joined the regular libs here who complain to management about the name jacking. I reported #214 and #216, now I guess we can see if they play fair across the board.
hehehe, name jackers
July 25th, 2007 at 6:51 pmCowtown: "The rich dems arent exactly going out of their way to sacrifice for the masses. Sure they advocate all sorts of ways to spend MY money, conveniently they already have their stashed away. How many normal houses could Edwards have built for what his current mansion will cost?"
This is another phony, trivia-based non-argument that current corporatist conservatives love to make. Since conservatives can't imagine someone doing something against their own self-interest for the public good, they conveniently forget that some of the country's greatest advocates for the poor were wealthy people. FDR was a rich man. JFK was a rich man. Teddy Roosevelt was a rich man. So what? These people didn't advocate personal sacrifice as much as they advocated public policy to deal with the problem of poverty.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:52 pmThanks for the kind words bob, always nice to know my efforts are appreciated.
Assholian Assaloids is actually a race featured in Star Trek episode 12, "The Planet of Liberal Ineptitude". There was a race of godawful creatures (the AA's) who looked a lot like what I would imagine Col. Jakoff looks like. Just use your imagination.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:55 pmWhere on earth did you get the idea that the Founding Fathers wouldn’t have supported universal healthcare. Jefferson pushed for free healthcare for all veterans of the Revolutionary War. The preamble to the constitution includes these words: “We the people…†and “provide for the general welfare.â€
Veterans being the key word.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:57 pmWell its been real but I have a nice steak just begging to be tossed on the grill...and the Amstels are calling to me like sirens.
Have a day.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:57 pmDo you really trust the health insurance companies (which only answer to their stockholders) more that the elected representatives of our government (you answer to the voters)?
Yes.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:58 pmIn addition, Bush’s proposal is $6 billion over 5 years, or $1 billion annually. It is the Democratic House and Senate that have proposed $30 billion over 5 years, or $6 billion annually.
No, idiot, Bush's proposal is an increase of $1b annually, to a total of $6b annually.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:00 pmDo you really trust the health insurance companies (which only answer to their stockholders) more that the elected representatives of our government (you answer to the voters)?
You mean like President Bush? Uh oh, now THIS is going to be a difficult conundrum.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:01 pmMore facts: SCHIP covered 3.3 million people in 2000. Today, it covers over 6 million children and 600k adults!
Thank you President Bush!
July 25th, 2007 at 7:02 pmI miss the dear col. jerk...I think Im going to cry.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:02 pmm12: "Veterans being the key word."
Good point, but it does show that the idea of government paying for healthcare was not an unknown concept in the late 18th century and that Jefferson and some of his peers saw it as an acceptable job for government.
I don't know why you would trust a corporation to do anything other than increase its profits. It's the law. Our current Supreme Court has ruled that CEO's and corporate boards MUST work to increase profits. Government workers or elected representatives are public servants. There mandate is not profit, it's public service.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:03 pmHunger is PREDICTABLE. Go without eating awhile and you get Hungry.
Illness is like the lottery…unpredictable. Don’t Smoke, don’t eat Junk, look both ways…and you could still get a catastrophic Illness.
Actually, vaccines, routine checkups, and chronic conditions are all quite Predictable.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:05 pmmay be a repeat... is so, worth it:
My Challenge to the Presidential Candidates
Posted July 25, 2007 | 12:01 PM (EST)
The American government isn't afraid to hand out free health care. Senior citizens get it. Veterans get it. As SiCKO shows you, even the detainees at Guantanamo Bay get it.
So, too, do our federal elected officials. It doesn't matter if they are Republicans or Democrats, young or old, healthy or sick -- they are entitled to free, government-provided health insurance. They don't have to worry about being able to pay for medical help -- even if many of their constituents do.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:08 pm[...]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/my-challenge-to-the-presi_b_57772.html
...
Notice how the right wingers will always blame the problems on the individual. They eat the wrong food, they do not exercise, they bring this on themselves. If that were true, we would see vastly worse health in terms of weight, lack of exercise and other lifestyle choices in countries that have greater social support and universal health since there would be absolutely no incentive to abstain from such conduct. However, that is not what has been found.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pm"Do you really trust the health insurance companies (which only answer to their stockholders) more that the elected representatives of our government (you answer to the voters)?
Yes. m12"
Proud of her stupidity, this one is. bush's $1 billion increase is pretty cheesy compared to Dems' $5 billion increase, isn't it? Or do you, like Bush, hate children? And why have the costs risen so high so quickly? it couldn't be because Big Pharma is killing people for profits, could it? the right wing's understanding of the Declaration Of Independence and the Constitution is nonexistent. The "conservatives" on this site currently are going to cause the Republican Party to be destroyed, finally, once and for all, and the entire world will be better off.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pmm12: "Actually, vaccines, routine checkups, and chronic conditions are all quite Predictable."
Yes, but statistics show that people without healthcare insurance do not go in for routine checkups because they can't afford them. 18,000 Americans die each year from chronic conditions because they are uninsured and can't afford to treat them.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pmMore facts: SCHIP covered 3.3 million people in 2000. Today, it covers over 6 million children and 600k adults!
Thank you President Bush!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Yes, thanks for making that necessary by allowing Big Pharma to murder thousands every year for profits!
July 25th, 2007 at 7:10 pmProud of her stupidity, this one is. bush’s $1 billion increase is pretty cheesy compared to Dems’ $5 billion increase, isn’t it?
No, its sanity compared to foolishness. Maybe if the Democrats planned to cut Harkin's ethanol subsidies, or create a tax that doesn't revolve around tobacco, they might be believable!
July 25th, 2007 at 7:11 pmYes, but statistics show that people without healthcare insurance do not go in for routine checkups because they can’t afford them.
So? That's their fault for not budgeting for the $100 or so expense.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:12 pmJMohr: "If that were true, we would see vastly worse health in terms of weight, lack of exercise and other lifestyle choices in countries that have greater social support and universal health since there would be absolutely no incentive to abstain from such conduct. However, that is not what has been found."
Right on! And, one of the most astonishing things Moore points out in Sicko is that even if people make unhealthy lifestyle choices in countries that have universal healthcare, they still end up better off. They smoke and drink like maniacs in places like France, but enjoy longer life expectancy anyway.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:13 pmProud of her stupidity, this one is. bush’s $1 billion increase is pretty cheesy compared to Dems’ $5 billion increase, isn’t it?
No, its sanity compared to foolishness. Maybe if the Democrats planned to cut Harkin’s ethanol subsidies, or create a tax that doesn’t revolve around tobacco, they might be believable!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
It's sanity to allow children to die from malnutrition and disease? good one, m12, you're really proving your lack of humanity. Maybe if the Republicans weren't so politically eager to block every Dem initiative taxes on tobacco would have the results they should. Your hatred of your fellow man seems to be your only platform. You must be a Republican.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:14 pmSo? That’s their fault for not budgeting for the $100 or so expense.
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
No, it's your fault for not allowing the 1 or 2 cents per month in taxes it would take to cover them.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:15 pmm12: "So? That’s their fault for not budgeting for the $100 or so expense."
I hope you are aware of the fact that hundreds of thousands of seniors have to make a choice between medicine and food every week of their lives and that millions of single women with children have to make the same choice. I know it's hard for many people to get their heads around this, but millions of Americans are stuck with these kinds of choices. I think it's a disgrace. I think we can do a lot better.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:16 pmTed Kennedy has a poor family living in his house, does he? Pelosi gives away most of her fortune? Kerry sold one of his houses to provide for the downtrodden? Comment by CowTown — July 25, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
You may not like Ted Kennedy, but you cannot dispute the service that most of the Kennedy children have given this country, ie Peace Corps, VISTA, Save the Children, The Special Olympics to name a few. Not all wealthy people care only about money. As for spending your money, don't forget that they pay taxes too. I'm pretty sure that Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry individually pay more in taxes than you make in a year.
You seem to be very obsessed with money and how taxes supposedly hurt you. I can't think of a more shortsighted view on life. Scandinavians have the highest taxes in the world, but they are the happiest. You come across as a very bitter person.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:18 pmIt's simple economic good sense: a healthy workforce is a productive workforce. If some small investment is necessary to provide health coverage for people working on the lower end of the scale, it is a worthwhile investment for this reason alone.
And from the simplest logic of the current situation, it's obviously much more efficient and economical to provide basic preventive care for everyone instead of massively-expensive care in emergency rooms when the lack of preventive care eventually results in the collapse of their health.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:20 pmAt least all the members of Congress can take a break from having to think about sick kids and wars and stuff when they go on a well deserved month long vacation in August. It's not like there is anything for them to do!
July 25th, 2007 at 7:22 pmKay T: "Scandinavians have the highest taxes in the world, but they are the happiest."
I've traveled to Europe on business many times and been around lots of business people there. They pay, on the average, more taxes than we do, but I have never, in all my contact with them heard any European complain about taxes. I think it's because they get a lot more for their taxes than we do. None of them every worries about being bankrupted by a medical condition. Nobody worries that a qualified son or daughter will not be able to go to college. Nobody worries about their infirm mothers or fathers. We could take a few lessons from the way they're running things over there.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:24 pmBeing a conservative pretty much means not giving two shits about anyone else. It comes down to: "How do I manage to hold onto my hard-earned money without paying a single penny in taxes?" Everyone is on their own. Those needing a helping hand be damned; it's not my problem.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWould you be willing to compromise and provide government-funded catastrophic coverage only?
Comment by CowTown — July 25, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
Actually, I think this is a good Idea. It would definitely make insurance rates more affordable. I'm not so naive to not be worried about the "Worried Well". Open ended universal coverage at NO Cost to the patient...would probably Bankrupt the government...what with the Poor health condition of many Americans.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:54 pmWe have a sickness treatment system, not a health care system. Prevention and early intervention are Money Savers.
We need to take PROFIT out of the health care system. Doctors should make a good living...but 1/3 of the costs going to profit...immoral.
And we need a single Payer system...so the insurance companies do'nt spend a fortune trying to AVOID paying the bills.
Start with the children...but make it free to ALL Children. Otherwise we are pitting the working poor against the middle class and well off.
W.Clements, spot on.
Instead of "We the people..." it's "Me the individual..."
Instead of "promote the general welfare..." it's "protect my property rights..."
July 25th, 2007 at 7:55 pmBadger: "Open ended universal coverage at NO Cost to the patient…would probably Bankrupt the government…what with the Poor health condition of many Americans."
It hasn't bankrupted any government which has tried it. In fact, they end up paying less as a fraction of GDP than we do. The British system is rated as much better than ours at 40% of the cost. And, the poor health of Americans is partly due to our lack of a healthcare system. With a single-payer plan, the government and society as a whole would have an incentive to get into prevention, nutrition and all the lifestyle choices which make people healthier.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:58 pmit is Bush's gift to Blue Cross Blue Shield..... cmon ya'll they need more MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
July 25th, 2007 at 8:01 pmCol. Jack...I'm in agreement with you, but I worry about the TRANSITION. You travel a lot. Compare Americans at an airport with Europeans. We're overweight and out of shape. True...a real HEALTHCARE system would mitigate the problem...but our culture is not Healthy.... Americans fiercly defend their right to make bad choices...and the advertising!
July 25th, 2007 at 8:09 pmWhile I am in favor of Some Piecemeal steps like Chips...We need a Universal Single payer Health care system like the Rest of the civilized world. And in the end...it would cost le$$.
Would you be willing to compromise and provide government-funded catastrophic coverage only?
Comment by CowTown — July 25, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
You are missing the point. One of the reasons that the uninsured cost us so much is that they cannot afford preventive care. Instead of managing a disease such as diabetes, asthma, hypertension, they arrive at hospitals with the complications of their illness. Treating advanced diseases is much more complicated and expensive.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:12 pmAmericans fiercly defend their right to make bad choices…and the advertising!
Comment by Badger
I think that's why the poor and unhealthy are decried. Because as a society, we know laziness, stupidity, and irresponsibility are encouraged. Its a reflection of our society.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:28 pmRevolution.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:34 pmI support congress for supporting the bill for health care of impoverish children. This administration has, thus far, done little to nothing for the poor in this country or around the world. Rather, more poverty, violence, and terror are created overseas and within US. According to the Borgen Project, whose goal is to fight global poverty, US is one of the nations pledged in the Millennium Development Project. MDP is aimed at eliminating world poverty in half by the year 2015. With $19 billion dollars annually, world poverty can be stopped. However, our government has already spent more than $450 billion dollars over this fruitless war in Iraq. It is time for the Bush Administration to take a real interest in the lives of the American people as well as people who are in desperate needs around the world. Stop the lies and stop poverty now. Put away the arrogance and put the needs of the people before political gains.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:34 pmPut away the arrogance and put the needs of the people before political gains.
Comment by Mstessyrue — July 25, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
I wonder if this president will have the honor of actually creating MORE poor and impoverished, while at the same time bragging that we have the greatest economy in the world? Hmmmmm....that would be interesting.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:38 pmzehava - i'm pretty sure it's already happened...
i remember hearing the statistics even years ago...
it's only getting worse...
the rich are getting richer... more poor are getting poorer...
July 25th, 2007 at 10:05 pm...
Pres Bush to the American people:
"Let them eat cake!"
(The cake will be provided at a charge, lest the poor think it's an entitlement and to teach them "personal responsibility" skills)
July 25th, 2007 at 10:07 pmBadger: "Col. Jack…I’m in agreement with you, but I worry about the TRANSITION."
The transition wouldn't have to be uncomfortable for most Americans. The only industries that lose are the health insurance industry and the pharmeceutical industry. Pharma is just going to have to make due with less profit and the insurance industry still has cars, fire, life, house, etc. They'll be just fine. And, of course you're right about what you see in international airports. We are the most out-of-shape society on the planet, period. And, the crazy thing is when you go to Europe, people are smoking and drinking like crazy, but they're still healthier. That's what universal healthcare does for a society.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:14 pmi remember hearing the statistics even years ago…
it’s only getting worse…
the rich are getting richer… more poor are getting poorer…
…
Comment by katy
Yep. I just wonder if there's ever been a president who did an even worse job regarding the situation of the poor.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:20 pm"All these damn kids, always coming around wanting stuff.
“Can I have some milk?â€
“Can I have some food?â€
“Can I have some medicine?â€
Can mommy and daddy please make sure they can afford health care for me before mommy decides to get pregnant! Is that too much to ask?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pm"the rich are getting richer… more poor are getting poorer…
…
Comment by katy"
Work a second job? I have! My father did!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:28 pm"That’s what universal healthcare does for a society.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 25, 2007"
And what is that?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:29 pm"Pres Bush to the American people:
“Let them eat cake!â€
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 25, 2007"
No, learn how to provide for your family and stop looking for a handout!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:31 pmWork a second job? I have!
Comment by michael
(Hand jobs don't count, Michael ... not the first time, nor the 2nd, or the 3rd, or ...)
July 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pm"I wonder if this president will have the honor of actually creating MORE poor and impoverished, while at the same time bragging that we have the greatest economy in the world? Hmmmmm….that would be interesting.
Comment by Zehava — July 25, 2007"
And what do you propose? That we become a Socialist country? Ain't going to happen so you better learn to provide for your families!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pm"(Hand jobs don’t count, Michael … not the first time, nor the 2nd, or the 3rd, or …)
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 25, 2007"
Thanks for saving me the effort of showing everybody what an idiot you are!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pm"This administration has, thus far, done little to nothing for the poor in this country or around the world.
Comment by Mstessyrue — July 25, 2007"
Maybe the poor should start taking things like education and personal responsibility more seriously?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pmNo, learn how to provide for your family and stop looking for a handout!
Comment by michael
Micahel, you're 100% right! In an IDEAl world, people would provide for their families and stop looking for a handout.
Of course, in an ideal world, Republican legislators wouldn't pay prostitutes to dress 'em up in diapers, or molest pages, or take bribes from defense contractors, or launder money thru their PACs, or... oh, you get the picture, I hope.
If you ever find that ideal world, let me know, 'cause I sure as hell don't want to be there w/ you.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pmMaybe the poor should start taking things like education and personal responsibility more seriously?
Comment by michael
Think David Vitter is learning his lesson right now?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:38 pmThanks for saving me the effort of showing everybody what an idiot you are!
Comment by michael
Li'l mikey, there's a world of difference between having people laughing w/ me, or having people laughing at you.
And trust me, they're laughing at you, not at me.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:39 pmIt’s sanity to allow children to die from malnutrition and disease? good one, m12, you’re really proving your lack of humanity. Maybe if the Republicans weren’t so politically eager to block every Dem initiative taxes on tobacco would have the results they should.
We already have taxes on tobacco. At what point are those taxes too high?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:44 pmNo, it’s your fault for not allowing the 1 or 2 cents per month in taxes it would take to cover them.
1 or 2 cents per month? Where did you get that figure?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:45 pmI hope you are aware of the fact that hundreds of thousands of seniors have to make a choice between medicine and food every week of their lives and that millions of single women with children have to make the same choice. I know it’s hard for many people to get their heads around this, but millions of Americans are stuck with these kinds of choices.
How are these Americans going to afford to pay the UHC taxes then?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:46 pmAs for spending your money, don’t forget that they pay taxes too. I’m pretty sure that Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry individually pay more in taxes than you make in a year.
Kerry dumps his wife's money in tax free bonds. Maybe we all should do that; Congress would go bankrupt.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:47 pmI support congress for supporting the bill for health care of impoverish children. This administration has, thus far, done little to nothing for the poor in this country or around the world. Rather, more poverty, violence, and terror are created overseas and within US.
Didn't Lyndon Johnson fight and win the war on Poverty? 50 years later, Edwards is rehashing his rhetoric!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:50 pm"Micahel, you’re 100% right! In an IDEAl world, people would provide for their families and stop looking for a handout"
There isn't a better time to start than now?
"Of course, in an ideal world, Republican legislators wouldn’t pay prostitutes to dress ‘em up in diapers, or molest pages, or take bribes from defense contractors, or launder money thru their PACs, or… oh, you get the picture, I hope."
Oh sure, it's just the Republicans? Spare me? Have you forgotten the $90,000 in cold cash in Jefferson's freezer?
"If you ever find that ideal world, let me know, ’cause I sure as hell don’t want to be there w/ you"
And if your picture of an ideal world is one where government solves all social problems, I don't want to be there with you! These people need to get off their *sses and solve their own problems and stop looking to me!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 25, 2007
July 25th, 2007 at 10:52 pmYes, thanks for making that necessary by allowing Big Pharma to murder thousands every year for profits!
How many millions have been saved by Big Pharma's wonder products?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:52 pm"1 or 2 cents per month? Where did you get that figure?"
Comment by m12
You questioning other's figures?
That's rich.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pm"Think David Vitter is learning his lesson right now?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 25, 2007"
Probably! He deserves what's coming to him. What does that have to do with this thread?
July 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pmYou questioning other’s figures?
That’s rich.
Well, yeah, the KennedyReaganBush tax cuts have made everyone in this country rich.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:54 pmHow many millions have been saved by Big Pharma’s wonder products?
Comment by m12
The ones who could afford them. The others are S.O.L....
July 25th, 2007 at 10:55 pm"And trust me, they’re laughing at you, not at me.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 25, 2007"
And if the people who are laughing at me are liberals and if the reason they are laughing is because they took exception to my comment about yours, then they are as stupid as you!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:55 pm"Well, yeah, the KennedyReaganBush tax cuts have made everyone in this country rich."
Comment by m12
Except Reagan's tax cuts ran the national debt up to a level higher than all other presidents combined. So high, Congress had to step in, and raise the rates to a realistic level.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:57 pm"Didn’t Lyndon Johnson fight and win the war on Poverty? 50 years later, Edwards is rehashing his rhetoric!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007"
Maybe one of the house liberals can answer that question? Time to go, O'Reilly is coming on!
July 25th, 2007 at 10:57 pmThe ones who could afford them. The others are S.O.L….
Comment by barfly — July 25, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
If you say so. Better some than none.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:57 pm"And if the people who are laughing at me are liberals and if the reason they are laughing is because they took exception to my comment about yours, then they are as stupid as you!"
Comment by michael
Well, that lets me out.
I'm just laughing at your room temp I.Q. ...
July 25th, 2007 at 10:59 pm"Better some than none."
Comment by m12
The 2007 version of "let 'em eat cake."
July 25th, 2007 at 11:00 pmAnd if the people who are laughing at me are liberals and if the reason they are laughing is because they took exception to my comment about yours, then they are as stupid as you!
Comment by michael
Well, snarky snark snark, li'l mikey. Keep looking for your ideal world. I'm sure you'll find it eventually, a magical place where Christian evangelicals never snort meth while hittin' the hay w/ male prosties, or VPs never shoot their friends in the face while slaughtering pen-raised birds by the dozen, or DoJ appointees never feel compelled to take the 5th after resigning.
Gosh, it'll be just like Disneyland, except no Tinkerbell, 'cause there'll never be fairies there, huh li'l mikey?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:02 pmTime to go, O’Reilly is coming on!
Comment by michael
Don't stroke it too hard, or you'll be walking funny tomorrow...
July 25th, 2007 at 11:02 pmAnd if the people who are laughing at me are liberals and if the reason they are laughing is because they took exception to my comment about yours, then they are as stupid as you!
Comment by michael — July 25, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
No, we're just laughing at you.
Where does TP get these trolls?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:03 pmWhere does TP get these trolls?
Comment by Zehava
At the Troll-Are-Us mega-outlet store, near San Diego?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmThe 2007 version of “let ‘em eat cake.â€
Comment by barfly — July 25, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
The pharmaceuticals are eating cake. Kanye West gets 75 years to copyright his garbage music.
Big Pharma gets maybe 10 on their patents.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmtsk, tsk,tsk... michael... will you ever learn?
Your posts have little substance on a good day, your repetitious statements are tiresome, your one-liners old and stale, and your grammar atrocious.
Of course we laugh at you, regardless of anyone else's comment...
July 25th, 2007 at 11:08 pmBig Pharma gets maybe 10 on their patents.
Comment by m12
Then perhaps they shouldn't spend 60% of profits on advertising - 'ya think?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:08 pmThen perhaps they shouldn’t spend 60% of profits on advertising - ‘ya think?
Comment by barfly — July 25, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
Why shouldn't they? With such a short length of patent protection, they have to market their products like every other company in the world does!
July 25th, 2007 at 11:11 pm#298 - At the Troll-Are-Us mega-outlet store, near San Diego?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
That explains it. That store is so dirty, I never go in there. I'm not surprised they have broken trolls.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:13 pmhe pharmaceuticals are eating cake. Kanye West gets 75 years to copyright his garbage music.
Big Pharma gets maybe 10 on their patents.
Comment by m12
There, there, li'l emmie. What's the snark all about?
In the United States, under current patent law, the term of patent is either 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date or 17 years from the issue date, depending on the filing date and the issue date (provided that the maintenance fees are paid in due time):
For applications that were pending on and for patents that were still in force on June 8, 1995, the patent term is either 17 years from the issue date or 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date, the longer term applying.
For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, the patent term is 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date.
10 years? Really? Wikipedia must have it wrong.
Of course, Kanye West can always lobby the government to control how much and where his fans can buy his music.
Oh, my bad, Kanye can't do that. Big Pharma can.
I see your point, li'l emmie. It's a rough world for Big Pharma.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:16 pmI’m not surprised they have broken trolls.
Comment by Zehava
If you check the lables, they're all made overseas these days. Globalization.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:18 pmm12 seems to resent black performers and the durability and sustainability of their product. He must own stock in Big Pharma.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:18 pmIn the United States, under current patent law, the term of patent is either 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date or 17 years from the issue date, depending on the filing date and the issue date (provided that the maintenance fees are paid in due time):
For applications that were pending on and for patents that were still in force on June 8, 1995, the patent term is either 17 years from the issue date or 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date, the longer term applying.
For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, the patent term is 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date.
10 years? Really? Wikipedia must have it wrong.
17 years from the discovery of the drug formula. Never mind that the clock is ticking while the pharmaceuticals go through the overbearing $800b FDA approval process!
It only ends up being about 10 years.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:20 pm#305 - If you check the lables, they’re all made overseas these days. Globalization.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Probably slave wages as well. TP should be ashamed for troll shopping there. This m12 seems to have a powerful battery, but it does have a tic.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:20 pmOf course, Kanye West can always lobby the government to control how much and where his fans can buy his music.
Oh, my bad, Kanye can’t do that. Big Pharma can.
Please provide an example of Big Pharma attempting to limit their marketability as you describe!
July 25th, 2007 at 11:22 pmIt only ends up being about 10 years.
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
You are not seriously trying to make us feel sorry for the big pharmaceutical companies, are you? Do you have any idea what their earnings are?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:26 pmPlease provide an example of Big Pharma attempting to limit their marketability as you describe!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
Reading comprehension issues, r12?
July 25th, 2007 at 11:27 pmYou are not seriously trying to make us feel sorry for the big pharmaceutical companies, are you? Do you have any idea what their earnings are?
Their earnings aren't any better than software, silicon, or entertainment industries, and with a lot more risk and upfront expense.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:29 pmTheir earnings aren’t any better than software, silicon, or entertainment industries, and with a lot more risk and upfront expense.
Comment by m12
Especially when they fake test results, or don't tell the public about possibly fatal adverse effects. That gets very expensive - in court.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:32 pmTheir earnings aren’t any better than software,
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
Right. They only make $1 billion, instead of $3 billion.
Those poor, downtrodden pharmaceutical companies...
July 25th, 2007 at 11:34 pmRight. They only make $1 billion, instead of $3 billion.
Those poor, downtrodden pharmaceutical companies…
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 25, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Given that it costs that $1b to bring a drug to market, something like that, yeah.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:36 pmGiven that it costs that $1b to bring a drug to market, something like that, yeah.
Comment by m12
"17 years from the discovery of the drug formula. Never mind that the clock is ticking while the pharmaceuticals go through the overbearing $800b FDA approval process!"
So it takes $800 billion to bring a drug to market?
Or a billion?
That's quite a disparity...
Bullshit.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:40 pmM12 is pulling stuff out of his ass again - and not even bothering to wipe it off, before offering it to us!
July 25th, 2007 at 11:42 pmComment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
You are really talking out of rear end, and you have no idea how much money the pharmaceutical industry makes.
Here is a quick example:
The Whitehouse Station, New Jersey-based Merck reported net income of $1.674 billion, up 11.8% from $1.499 billion and earnings rose 11.6% to $0.77 per share from $0.69 per share in the same quarter last year.
Strong Product Sales Lift Merck Q2 Profit By 12%, Boosts FY07 EPS Target
That is net income we are talking about, and just for Q2 this year. I find it very hard to feel sorry for them.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:43 pmYet again, M12 gets his nose rubbed in his own dukie.
Bravely elbowing aside his own strawmen, valiant M12 forges a path to the rear...
July 25th, 2007 at 11:52 pmonly ends up being about 10 years.
Comment by m12
How does it only end up being about 10 yrs? What about an extension, you ask?
What's the motivation behind patent extensions? It's really quite simple. The pharmaceutical industry uses its formidable lobbying powers and deep pockets to convince Congress, on a drug by drug basis, to extend the patents on certain highly profitable prescription drugs. Just adding a few years-say, two to three-to a patent allows the manufacturer to continue to market the brand-name drug without any competition from a comparable generic equivalent.
During the next five years, it is estimated that some $20 billion worth of medications will come off patent, thus opening the door for development of generic versions. The popular antihistamine Claritin is one such drug. It currently sells for about $2 a pill in the United States, but an over-the-counter version sells for about one-quarter of the price in Canada and much of Europe.
We're talking big bucks. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that a single patent extension for the anti-inflammatory drug Lodine would cost federal health plans $10 million annually. When CBO includes the cost to the Medicaid program, private payers and consumers, the figure will easily exceed $50 million per year. And this is just one medication!
Hmmm, seems there's more to this that you're telling us, li'l emmie.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:59 pmMore information on the earnings that pharmaceutical companies make:
ohnson & Johnson today announced second-quarter sales of $15.1 billion, an increase of 13.2% as compared to the second quarter of 2006.
[...]
Net earnings and diluted earnings per share for the second quarter of 2007 were $3.1 billion and $1.05, respectively.
Johnson & Johnson Reports 2007 Second-Quarter Results
These people are definitely not starving.
But r12 would have us feel sorry for those CEOs who are only making $1 million a year, plus perks and bonuses.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:59 pmPlease provide an example of Big Pharma attempting to limit their marketability as you describe!
comment by m12
"Customs officials have seized thousands of packages of prescription drugs sent from Canadian pharmacies to U.S. residents since Nov. 17, 2005, when the agency began to increase enforcement of federal laws that restrict the purchase of prescription drugs from abroad.
The purchase of medications from abroad is illegal, but customs and FDA officials generally have allowed the practice. Some Canadian pharmacy officials have said that they believe the increased seizures are related to the launch of the new Medicare prescription drug benefit."
Ring any bells for ya, emmie?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:05 amGiven that it costs that $1b to bring a drug to market, something like that, yeah.
Comment by m12
More and more, pharmaceutical companies are going after higher profits by bypassing health care professionals and appealing directly to consumers, who may or may not be qualified to decide whether they truly need a drug. Last year the drug industry spent $1.8 billion on direct-to-consumer ads. That’s an increase of 41 percent over last year. Those with the best ads sell the most drugs. The ad budget for the antihistamine Claritin was higher than Coke and Diet Coke, combined. And the top 10 advertised drugs accounted for 22 percent of all retail drug spending.
Yeah, marketing drugs like they were soft drinks is expensive, isn't it?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:11 amHmmm, li'l emmie seems to have split.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:13 amNever mind that the clock is ticking while the pharmaceuticals go through the overbearing $800b FDA approval process!
Comment by m12 — July 25, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
This is a nugget of wisdom I almost missed.
r12 seems to be completely unaware that the "overbearing" approval process is supposed to protect us the consumers from drugs that are untested, unsafe, or flat-out unfit for human consumption.
Anybody who is faintly aware of the devastating effects that thalidomide had on unsuspecting pregnant women, should not think the FDA approval processes are "overbearing". I prefer to call them thorough and comprehensive.
r12 spins the facts as if he had a stake in the pharma industry. More likely he is yet another Kool-Aid drinker.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:18 amMore likely he is yet another Kool-Aid drinker.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
It would appear that he is off drinking some right now, Gregor.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:21 amwell if the problem is recouping research costs then the government should fund stem cell research to keep all discoveries in the public domain. It then could be made available to the public at cost instead of at cost plus profit.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:37 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007 @ 12:21 am
It really annoys me when someone tries to argue with me with inanities such as "they don't make that much money...." when I know the money in question is in the range of billions of dollars.
All pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies are already hugely profitable. Not to mention the tax breaks the Bush administration has given them (if we were talking about the poor, twits like r12 would babble about "entitlements", and "handouts". But I digress).
What else do people like r12 want? How much more do they value a drug company's profits over the health of the public?
It truly boggles the mind...
July 26th, 2007 at 12:39 amIt truly boggles the mind…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
This brings to mind a story I heard 10 or 12 years ago. Some fairly liberal elected official in California got into an exchange w/ the then-head of BofA, David Souter.
The official asked Souter, 'When is enough enough? How much more money do you need to make?"
The stunned Souter is reputed to have replied, "It terrifies me that you would even ask such a question."
July 26th, 2007 at 12:44 amAnother thing about drug companies' "r & d," is that these drug companies capitalize on research produced by partnerships between american universities and the government. This initial research "cost" doesn't appear on these companies' profit-loss statements - a giveaway that does a lot to ensure a product's profitability, and raise Big Pharma's stock prices. If one wants to talk honestly about Big Pharma's "burden," the first step is to seperate research from development costs.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:45 amthe problem with health care is even for the people that have what is considered "good" coverage it is still expensive. It cost me over $5,000 when I had my daughter last year. Over 1.5 million people claimed bankruptcy last year over 75% because of medical costs that exceeded $11,000. $11,000 was enough to push people into poverty. I don't see why businesses especially small businesses are not for this this would relinquish them for the absorbent costs of employer funded health plans but would also give employees more freedom. For this I would be willing to increase my taxes. I pay $240 a month in health care costs for 3 people and my employer probably matches that so total say $500 a month in health care costs. Take the middle say $250 times a populace of $300 milliion or subtract the 50 million uninsured or homeless that can't afford healthcare and the system would be funded in the trillions.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:46 amIt's the little kids' fault for choosing parents whose jobs are just above the poverty line. They should have chosen parents who are rich or below the poverty line. Or who are in every other developed country in the world. Then they would not have a problem with healthcare.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:46 amif you don't have your health you don't have anything I remember one line from "Sicko" , " if you can find the money to kill you can find the money to care."
July 26th, 2007 at 12:50 amConsumer Reports ten years ago said the US would save $175 billion (administratively-alone) each and every year by switching to single-payer government-run healthcare. Since this is a %, it would be about $250 billion every year today. And there would be noone without healthcare.
Automakers are moving to Canada because US healthcare is so expensive.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:51 amIt then could be made available to the public at cost instead of at cost plus profit.
Comment by chad
Ya'd think now, wouldn't ya?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:52 amHey asshat M12 - do a Google search for "hospital turned away" and see what you find. Is that the kind of medical care you want in your country?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:53 amSome US health plans are $1000 per month just for self. Plus deductibles. Plus co-pays. Plus dental. Plus optometric. Plus behavioral, etc.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:54 am22 years ago, my brother and wife had twins with so many complications for a long period----that they got a bill in the end for over $250,000. Needless to say----bankruptcy.
This would not happen in any other developed country in the world.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:56 amAnother stupidity in our system of health care. For a two month period last year I was without health insurance. And I found out something very interesting. When I went to pay for my prescriptions, I had to pay twice what the pharmacy charges the insurance company. And I understand it works the same with other things like tests, doctor's visits and hospital care. So, the people who can least afford to pay pay the most. Where's the sense in that.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:57 amok completely off topic. But there is simply something wrong with our unregulated capitalist system. I an attempting to refinance and I get a 6.125 on a 15 year loan on only half what my house is worth with both myself and my wife with excellent credit that would pay them 50% of the loan amount $75000 back in interest on a very very low risk loan. What is that thing in the bible it says about usurping? Yet every wealthy supposed christian believes they have obtained their money because they are somehow better than poor people. The only response I get is every bank does it !!! Well peoples morals are not and should not be based on the actions of others.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:02 amHey asshat M12 - do a Google search for “hospital turned away†and see what you find. Is that the kind of medical care you want in your country?
Comment by bilbobaggins
He had to go change his pantyhose. Must have had a problem. He's been gone for quite a while.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:05 amIt’s the little kids’ fault for choosing parents whose jobs are just above the poverty line. They should have chosen parents who are rich or below the poverty line. Or who are in every other developed country in the world. Then they would not have a problem with healthcare.
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007 @ 12:46 am
Kids today have no standards when it comes to wombs. Any womb will do! Geez....
July 26th, 2007 at 1:10 am"Kids today have no standards when it comes to wombs. Any womb will do! Geez….
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
It's not the kids who have to make the intelligent decisions, it's parents, and in most cases, the public has to pay!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:16 am"He had to go change his pantyhose. Must have had a problem. He’s been gone for quite a while.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007"
And your response is?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:17 am"This would not happen in any other developed country in the world.
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
Although I feel sorry for their predicament, what would have happened in other developed countries and who would have paid for it?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:19 amIt’s not the kids who have to make the intelligent decisions, it’s parents, and in most cases, the public has to pay!
Comment by michael
That was sarcasm. You're pretty dumb, aren't you?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:21 am"Kids today have no standards when it comes to wombs. Any womb will do! Geez….
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
Never said it was the kid's fault, it's usually the fault of the low life parents who get women pregnant without understanding the responsibility that goes with it! I don't want to give these people 1 penny!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:23 amreally michael linking your name to an Ann Coulter site really.... when has she said anything of value to say in her entire life that wasn't a complete fabrication .. I mean misquoting.... I mean outright lie.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:24 am"That was sarcasm. You’re pretty dumb, aren’t you?
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
No it wasn't! It was reality! If you are too stupid to see it, sorry!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:25 am"when has she said anything of value to say in her entire life that wasn’t a complete fabrication .. I mean misquoting…. I mean outright lie.
Comment by chad — July 26, 2007"
How about an example?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:26 amI don’t want to give these people 1 penny!
Comment by michael
That might mean depriving helpless children of needed healthcare. What's wrong with you?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:27 amNo it wasn’t! It was reality! If you are too stupid to see it, sorry!
Comment by michael
MY statement about lack of standards in wombs was sarcasm.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:29 amDo try to keep track.
"when has she said anything of value to say in her entire life that wasn’t a complete fabrication .. I mean misquoting…. I mean outright lie.
Comment by chad — July 26, 2007"
Example?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:29 am"What’s wrong with you?
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
What's wrong with mommy and daddy? Huh?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:30 amok when she comments in her book godless there she says liberals want to kindergarteners sex ed. and she uses as her evidence an article from 20 years ago talking about teaching sex ed. to COLLEGE students. Quite a big leap from reality wouldn't you say.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:31 amAnd your response is?
Comment by michael
To what, Michael?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:32 amAlthough I feel sorry for their predicament, what would have happened in other developed countries and who would have paid for it?
Comment by michael
If you don't know the type of healthcare system that every OTHER developed country has------then do a little reading.
Consumer Reports says that type of system in the US would save us $250 billion (administratively-alone) each year and everyone would be covered.
Do you understand that parents below the poverty line have no trouble getting healthcare for their kids in the US? It is only working parents above the poverty line that have trouble.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:33 am"MY statement about lack of standards in wombs was sarcasm.
Do try to keep track.
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
Instead of concentrating on lack of standards in wombs, you might try asking the poor about lack of standards in character and responsibility!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:33 amWhat’s wrong with mommy and daddy? Huh?
Comment by michael
WTF??? Non sequitur??
July 26th, 2007 at 1:33 amZehava was saying these kids should really try to choose better parents. Since this is not possible-----she was using HUMOR.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:35 amor when she said Edwards supported people trying to stop doctors from delivering babies when she was talking about his work as a trial lawyer representing victim a malpractice lawsuit that has nothing to do with A) delivering babies or B) stoping them from doing any further medical work
July 26th, 2007 at 1:35 amInstead of concentrating on lack of standards in wombs, you might try asking the poor about lack of standards in character and responsibility!
Comment by michael
Sarcasm. Joke. Funny. Ha ha. Humor.
Nevermind, you're just too dumb.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:37 amYes, generations of poverty may harm your character and responsibility-----but why should innocent children PAY.
The question becomes how do you break the cycle of poverty.
Did you know that poverty always decreases under Democrats and increases under Republicans? Do you ever wonder why?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:38 am"If you don’t know the type of healthcare system that every OTHER developed country has——then do a little reading"
Such as?
"Consumer Reports says that type of system in the US would save us $250 billion (administratively-alone) each year and everyone would be covered"
Really? I have been working in the healthcare industry for the last 20 years and I'm sure you can explain to me some idiotic liberal plan that is going to provide coverage to the uninsured at a minimal cost? I can't wait to hear your socialist response!
"It is only working parents above the poverty line that have trouble"
Why did they have kids?
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
July 26th, 2007 at 1:39 amZehava was saying these kids should really try to choose better parents. Since this is not possible—–she was using HUMOR.
Comment by Keith G
Do you always have to draw a picture for this one? :-)
July 26th, 2007 at 1:39 am"Did you know that poverty always decreases under Democrats and increases under Republicans? Do you ever wonder why?
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
No, explain?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:40 amapparently even drawing a big picture with crayons doesn't work.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:40 amExplain?
Records are kept on such things for at least the last 87 years. Go look at the evidence.
You ain't going to believe anything I say anyway.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:41 am"Sarcasm. Joke. Funny. Ha ha. Humor.
Nevermind, you’re just too dumb.
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007"
And I guess you told me? Idiot!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:42 amSo michael is your stance is that you do not want to fund sex ed. that talks about actual sex and ways to prevent pregnancy and disease. But you also want to limit peoples choices once they are pregnant. Then you also do not want to be responsible for the options and quality life of that mother and child is that essentially the republican talking point in a nut shell. Is that the personal accountability and responsiblity that you mean?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:42 amIs this the kind of proper adult conduct we should all aspire to, michael?
A Tennessee state senator sponsoring a state constitutional amendment aimed at "solemnizing the relationship of one man and one woman" is accused in a divorce case of cheating on his wife. Sen. Jeff Miller, a Republican from Cleveland, is accused of "inappropriate marital conduct" in a divorce complaint filed February 25 in Bradley County. The senator's March 2 answer to the complaint "vehemently denies" any inappropriate marital conduct.
"He is very hypocritical, fighting for the sanctity of marriage and not keeping his own," the senator's wife of 15 years, Bridgitte Suzanne Miller, said in a report in the Chattanooga Times Free Press. Miller, chairman of the senate Republican caucus, acknowledged the divorce in a statement Thursday. "Divorce is a very difficult time for everyone," he said. "It is a very private matter, which is played out in public proceedings. My chief concern right now is the best interest of our children."
July 26th, 2007 at 1:43 am"Records are kept on such things for at least the last 87 years. Go look at the evidence.
You ain’t going to believe anything I say anyway.
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
You made the statement PROVE IT?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:43 amDo you always have to draw a picture for this one? :-)
Comment by Zehava — July 26, 2007 @ 1:39 am
Yes. Preferably with images no more complex than stick figures.
And if you can include a little play dough, that really helps enrich the little troll's learning experience. Don't forget to give him a little treat and pat him on the head before you leave.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:44 amhey Michael you wanted examples I gave you two on Ann Coulter.
so explain there slappy am I wrong is Ann Coulter the next nobel peace winner?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:45 amIdiot!!! You never told him that children don't choose which womb they go into!!!!
Yes, Mr. stork, I would like a womb with a view, please.
Republic of stupidity always likes my humor.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:45 am"Is this the kind of proper adult conduct we should all aspire to, michael?
A Tennessee state senator sponsoring a state constitutional amendment aimed at “solemnizing the relationship of one man and one woman†is accused in a divorce case of cheating on his wife. Sen. Jeff Miller, a Republican from Cleveland, is accused of “inappropriate marital conduct†in a divorce complaint filed February 25 in Bradley County. The senator’s March 2 answer to the complaint “vehemently denies†any inappropriate marital conduct.
“He is very hypocritical, fighting for the sanctity of marriage and not keeping his own,†the senator’s wife of 15 years, Bridgitte Suzanne Miller, said in a report in the Chattanooga Times Free Press. Miller, chairman of the senate Republican caucus, acknowledged the divorce in a statement Thursday. “Divorce is a very difficult time for everyone,†he said. “It is a very private matter, which is played out in public proceedings. My chief concern right now is the best interest of our children.â€
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007"
What the hell does this have to do with a bunch of low lifes wanting ME to pay for their health care insurance?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:45 amYou made the statement PROVE IT?
Comment by michael
NO-------go find yourself an almanac or something. You won't believe anything I type anyway.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:46 amAnd I guess you told me? Idiot!
Comment by michael — July 26, 2007 @ 1:42 am
That post was obviously sarcasm, michael.
It was almost painful to read your serious response to it, and even more so to read your next post denying that it was sarcasm.
Once more you are proving to be the most obtuse troll in the thread. What is scary is that you are not even trying...
July 26th, 2007 at 1:47 am"is Ann Coulter the next nobel peace winner?
Comment by chad — July 26, 2007"
Absolutely NOT! Why would she want to be in the same company as Jimmy Carter and Nelson Mandela?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:47 amok michael I can understand your convictions so why don't we put universal health care up for a referendum vote?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:48 am"What is scary is that you are not even trying…
Comment by Gregor Samsa — July 26, 2007"
What might be more scary is I MEAN IT!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:49 ammaybe they are lowlifes because they can't find a fricking job.
but as i explained previously----it is working people ABOVE the poverty line who are having the problem and who we are talking about.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:49 amUmmnn where to start.
so michael not a big fan of Nelson Mandela do tell why? I understand Cheney tried to make the African National Congress labeled as a terrorist organization back in the 80's is that it?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:50 am66% of Americans are in favor of universal, government-run, single-payer healthcare for all. That means they are to the left of every presidential candidate except Kucinich.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:51 ammichael hate peace
michael like war
July 26th, 2007 at 1:52 am"why don’t we put universal health care up for a referendum vote?
Comment by chad — July 26, 2007"
Why don't we put up milk production by the government for a referendum vote? Or how about ice cream production, or those electric fans some small company in Boise makes? Where does it end?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:52 am"michael like war
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
Is that the most intelligent thing you have to say?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:53 amthe 66% comes from every poll ever done when they are not afraid to ask the question.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:54 am"66% of Americans are in favor of universal, government-run, single-payer healthcare for all. That means they are to the left of every presidential candidate except Kucinich.
Comment by Keith G — July 26, 2007"
And 66% of Americans don't understand what they are asking for. Ask me!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:55 amhaven't heard anything intelligent from you
July 26th, 2007 at 1:55 amyes because milk, ice cream, and electric fans ahhhh those are for the common good and the general welfare as set up in article 1 of the constitution because if you haven't had a ice cream cone on a hot day with a glass of milk and a fan on you than you are just missing out.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:55 ammichael,
I know you are not in that 66%.
You are in the 26%.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:56 amWhat the hell does this have to do with a bunch of low lifes wanting ME to pay for their health care insurance?
Comment by michael
Instead of concentrating on lack of standards in wombs, you might try asking the poor about lack of standards in character and responsibility!
Comment by michael
Just asking if that was the standard in character and responsibilily the poor should look up to. Is it?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:56 am"so michael not a big fan of Nelson Mandela do tell why? I understand Cheney tried to make the African National Congress labeled as a terrorist organization back in the 80’s is that it?
Comment by chad — July 26, 2007"
Possibly. What's your liberal point?
July 26th, 2007 at 1:57 amso instead of system of majority rules with respect for minority rights we have michael rules and he will explain it all to us. Please don't look behind the curtain.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:57 amIs that the most intelligent thing you have to say?
Comment by michael
Oh, li'l mikey, he's just trying to dumb it down to the point where even you'll get it!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:58 am"Just asking if that was the standard in character and responsibilily the poor should look up to. Is it?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007"
I would hope so, but I'm sure a liberal wouldn't understand it!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:59 amthe African National Congress was favored by about 85% of the population of the country.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:59 amWhy don’t we put up milk production by the government for a referendum vote? Or how about ice cream production, or those electric fans some small company in Boise makes? Where does it end?
Comment by michael
Strwman, michael. NONE of those have anything to do w/ healthcare. Irrational comparision.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:59 amoh no he called me a liberal i'm melting i'm melting.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:00 amI actually prefer progressive you now ending corruption making government responsible to all the people not just big business. That the economy serves society not that society serves the economy that sort of thing.
people don't really choose to be poor. They are forced into it due to lack of opportunity.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:00 amI would hope so, but I’m sure a liberal wouldn’t understand it!
Comment by michael
“He is very hypocritical, fighting for the sanctity of marriage and not keeping his own,†the senator’s wife of 15 years, Bridgitte Suzanne Miller, said in a report in the Chattanooga Times Free Press.
Did you even read it?
July 26th, 2007 at 2:01 amRepublic,
did you like #372?
July 26th, 2007 at 2:02 ampeople don’t really choose to be poor. They are forced into it due to lack of opportunity.
Comment by Keith G
Actually, Keith G, I've met some poor people who were poor because they were dumb as rainwater, just like more than a few rich folks who inhereited their money, like the Walton Clan, or Duh-bya, whose daddy has bailed him out of bad business decisions in the past.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:03 amdid you like #372?
Comment by Keith G
yeah... makes about as much sense as nominating Rush Limbaugh, doesn't it?
July 26th, 2007 at 2:04 am"Just asking if that was the standard in character and responsibilily the poor should look up to. Is it?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007"
Absolutely! It's what my father taught me back in the 50's. Sorry you liberals missed that character lesson. It's obvious you believe the government is your salvation, mine is "personal responsibility"! How does it feel to be a lemming?
July 26th, 2007 at 2:04 amYes, I was using a broad generalization.
But government policies do affect poverty---liberal policies reduce it and conservative policies increase it. At the height of roaring 20's prosperity, the majority of Americans were below the poverty line.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:06 amIdiot!!! You never told him that children don’t choose which womb they go into!!!!
Yes, Mr. stork, I would like a womb with a view, please.
--------------------
I thought it was funny, anyway.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:07 ammichael,
There is more poverty under conservatives. There is less under liberals. There is less in Holland, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, etc., etc.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:10 amBut government policies do affect poverty—liberal policies reduce it and conservative policies increase it. At the height of roaring 20’s prosperity, the majority of Americans were below the poverty line.
Comment by Keith G
Absolutely, there's no doubt about it. I've always wanted to ask a wealthy businessman, "Which would you rather have, 6% profit on $2M, or 8% on $1M? " And no, the answer is not, Why can't I have 10% on $2m?
The point is, if these guys would loosen the purse strings and treat their workers better, they'd have a more, loyal, dedicated workforce on their hands. Productivity would go up, absenteeism would go down, and the money would circulate more and more.
I've never quite understood why those that are really, really well off seem to get so turned on by zeroes and decimal points on pieces of paper. Once you get above a certain levle, you're never gonna be able to spend it all, so why not make sure yur own employees live better too? Do the family members who inherited Sam Walton's wealth really need more BILLIONS? What's the point?
July 26th, 2007 at 2:13 amI thought it was funny, anyway.
Comment by Keith G
So did I.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:13 amAbsolutely! It’s what my father taught me back in the 50’s.
Comment by michael — July 26, 2007 @ 2:04 am
michael obviously hasn't read TRoS' post.
Or he is saying that his father taught him back in the 50s that cheating on one's wife while hypocritically pontificating about the "sanctity of marriage" is ok.
michael, you are really embarrassing yourself now... that is, if you have at least a minimum amount of self-awareness required.
How does it feel to be a lemming?
Says the Coulter fan who is also a Limbaugh dittohead...
July 26th, 2007 at 2:14 amfor the last 87 years, everytime presidency has gone from Repub to Demo---the job growth rate has increased. Everytime the presidency has gone from Demo to Repub, the job growth rate has decreased.
Clinton created 22 million jobs. W five million.
Clinton inherited 7.8% unemployment from GHWB and took it down consistently to 3.9% with the greatest period of economic expansion in the history of the US.
W inherited the 3.9% from Clinton, took it up to 6.8%, then down to 4.7% and tells us what a terrific job he has done.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:14 amSorry you liberals missed that character lesson.
Hey Michael are you bitter or something? Why do you paint with such a broad brush? I just walked in from another 12 hour shift at a second job. I lost my shirt to an immoral and money driven rightwing family. Whose children by the way have never earned a thing they have nor felt the sting of sweat in their silverspooned eyes. I did not look to the government. Instead I earned two masters degrees and work in a warehouse as a second seasonal job to rebuild. And quess what Sir, I am a proud liberal. Open your mind to other possibilities other then your us versus them mentality.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:15 amtrickle-down economics doesn't work. But the opposite does work. The rich do benefit from more employment and a raise in wages for the middle and lower.
Too many of the Rich are only interested in short-term, self-interest.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:17 amAbsolutely! It’s what my father taught me back in the 50’s. Sorry you liberals missed that character lesson.
A Tennessee state senator sponsoring a state constitutional amendment aimed at “solemnizing the relationship of one man and one woman†is accused in a divorce case of cheating on his wife
Hmmm... one more time, what lesson in character are we to learn from this man?
It’s obvious you believe the government is your salvation...
My salvation? WTF??? That's so broad and ill-defined as to be meaningless. It's also a projection on your part.
mine is “personal responsibilityâ€!
Explain this a little more, and while you're at it, do you think I'm not "personally responsible"? What do you base this, ahem, opinion on?
How does it feel to be a lemming?
Again, so vague and ill-defined, as to be meaningless.
Comment by michael
July 26th, 2007 at 2:18 amWhen GHWBush graduated from college he was given an oil company as a graduation gift. And he is far superior workwise to GWB.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:20 amhen down to 4.7% and tells us what a terrific job he has done.
Comment by Keith G
And it's hard to know anymore how meaningful those numbers are anymore, w/ the way Bushco cooks everything to their own benefit.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:25 amBush should veto this. Of course Amanda does not mention that there may be a ligit reason for the opposition to this legislation. The issue is one of states rights and responsibilities. If the people of a state think their children need this then they should provide it on the state level. That I could support. But to enlarge the federal Gov feeds and empowers big brother (and people like Gonzo or Sen Davis a democrat) and is a threat to individual liberty.
Compassion begins at home, have the states provide the care for its own children.
July 26th, 2007 at 7:44 amAlert, Alert! N.Y. Gov. Eliot Spitzer is being investigated for “misuse of state police to track a top GOP lawmakerâ€
Another corrupt Democrat we won’t see a story about on this website!
ROTFL, ROTFL, ROTFL
July 26th, 2007 at 8:38 amThis is one case where I am with Republicans and the Tobacco lobby. I am a smoker, and honestly we are taxed enough.
I pay $7 a pack in NYC a majority of which is state/federal/city taxes. Im not a rich man. Give us a break.
If cigarettes are so goddamn awful, then ban them.
July 26th, 2007 at 9:01 am"Alert, Alert! N.Y. Gov. Eliot Spitzer is being investigated for “misuse of state police to track a top GOP lawmakerâ€
Another corrupt Democrat we won’t see a story about on this website!
ROTFL, ROTFL, ROTFL"
Hi, I'm from NY. This is the first I am hearing of this, but I garauntee that Spitzer is not only clean, but he will handle the situation with class.
For those that do not know, this man is anti-corruption incarnate. He'd have a cop write his mother a jay walking ticket.
July 26th, 2007 at 9:26 amAlert, Alert! N.Y. Gov. Eliot Spitzer is being investigated for “misuse of state police to track a top GOP lawmakerâ€
Another corrupt Democrat we won’t see a story about on this website!
ROTFL, ROTFL, ROTFL
Comment by Happy Guy
Boy is that ever a complete distortion of the situtation.
July 26th, 2007 at 9:32 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 26, 2007 @ 9:32 am
What is the situation then Stupid?
July 26th, 2007 at 10:11 amformer first Lady,
July 26th, 2007 at 10:13 amWhy is this shocking too you, at this point bush has mad it his trademark strategy too elude the American Value system by simply ignoring use, It works in a most devious way .
Like defending a lie would would need too be explained.
Its a strategy used by most adolescents.
and they test every your every emotion for ways too be loved, A child will defend a lye for fear of punishment by acting as if nothing is wrong, even knowing there is they still do it.
even if being punished for fear of shame.
in this case bush is defending the Corporate Pharmaceutical Industry and Insurance Co.
why, Because he knows he can get away with it.
You say don't he fill shame.
Not even close, he fills confident The well stated propaganda speech will put you at ease , I am sure a 5 year old will be devastated to see Bush get off the Hook and he gets crappy dental Care??
Let's face it. The Chimperor is willing to take health care away from children is because of one thing.....Invest in a useless war and put in some oil wells so he can get orgasmic over getting oil in Iraq, then he can get the kickbacks.
WHY DOES GEORGE W. BUSH HATE CHILDREN?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:33 pmSo it takes $800 billion to bring a drug to market?
Or a billion?
That’s quite a disparity…
Bullshit.
I apologize, barfly. It's $800m to $1b.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:46 pmThe Whitehouse Station, New Jersey-based Merck reported net income of $1.674 billion, up 11.8% from $1.499 billion and earnings rose 11.6% to $0.77 per share from $0.69 per share in the same quarter last year.
Strong Product Sales Lift Merck Q2 Profit By 12%, Boosts FY07 EPS Target
That is net income we are talking about, and just for Q2 this year. I find it very hard to feel sorry for them.
Who said anything about being sorry for them? They run a good business and deserve that money!
July 26th, 2007 at 12:48 pmr12 seems to be completely unaware that the “overbearing†approval process is supposed to protect us the consumers from drugs that are untested, unsafe, or flat-out unfit for human consumption.
Anybody who is faintly aware of the devastating effects that thalidomide had on unsuspecting pregnant women, should not think the FDA approval processes are “overbearingâ€. I prefer to call them thorough and comprehensive.
Oh, you mean a handful of drugs out of thousands didn't work perfectly? Let me know if you've had a mistake free life!
Besides, by our laws, fetuses aren't people, anyway. Drug companies shouldn't even have to test anything for them.
July 26th, 2007 at 12:50 pmAll pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies are already hugely profitable. Not to mention the tax breaks the Bush administration has given them (if we were talking about the poor, twits like r12 would babble about “entitlementsâ€, and “handoutsâ€. But I digress).
How are they hugely profitable? Intel, for example, makes a similar level in profits!
July 26th, 2007 at 12:52 pm66% of Americans are in favor of universal, government-run, single-payer healthcare for all. That means they are to the left of every presidential candidate except Kucinich.
How much in taxes do those 66% pay?
July 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pmLast year the drug industry spent $1.8 billion on direct-to-consumer ads.That’s an increase of 41 percent over last year. Those with the best ads sell the most drugs. The ad budget for the antihistamine Claritin was higher than Coke and Diet Coke, combined. And the top 10 advertised drugs accounted for 22 percent of all retail drug spending.
Yeah, marketing drugs like they were soft drinks is expensive, isn’t it?
Marketing in general is expensive. But I like your cherry picked figure, which don't include Sprite and Poweraid!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:03 pmHow does it only end up being about 10 yrs? What about an extension, you ask?
What’s the motivation behind patent extensions? It’s really quite simple. The pharmaceutical industry uses its formidable lobbying powers and deep pockets to convince Congress, on a drug by drug basis, to extend the patents on certain highly profitable prescription drugs. Just adding a few years-say, two to three-to a patent allows the manufacturer to continue to market the brand-name drug without any competition from a comparable generic equivalent.
Since when are extensions guaranteed, or unique to the pharmaceutical industry?
The companies are just asking Congress to do its constitutional duty.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:05 pmWhat else do people like r12 want? How much more do they value a drug company’s profits over the health of the public?
Over the health of the public? If drug companies didn't exist, the health of the public would be a helluva lot worse!
July 26th, 2007 at 1:06 pmIt's Congress constitutional duty to extend patents?
July 26th, 2007 at 5:09 pmSince when?
I thought you regressive s were all about competition.
Granting patent extensions doesn't sound like competition to me.
It's their duty to grant patents and ensure they last for a sufficient duration.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
July 26th, 2007 at 6:27 pmTo promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
In other words, lets cut off the nose (poor children) to spite the face (those low-life parents.) This strategy is bound to work! Way to be part of the solution!
So you say. Or maybe these drugs they are jamming down our throats are merely another way to separate money from the pockets of people who think they need them because of the constant drone of ads and the incentives doctors get to shill them? You have a LOT more faith in drug companies than I do. But that's really no surprise!
July 27th, 2007 at 12:16 am