Contempt citations issued.
By on Jul 25th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Contempt citations issued.
In a 22-17 vote, the House Judiciary Committee approved “a Resolution and Report Recommending to the House of Representatives that Former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten be cited for Contempt of Congress.” The AP reports, “a vote by the full House would most likely happen after Congress’ August recess.”
UPDATE: The Gavel has updates from the hearing.
UPDATE II: Tony Snow calls the citations “pathetic.”
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I want to cite the trolls for Contempt of the Truth.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pmSlow process, but worth it.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:36 pmWhen will the full house take up the vote?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:36 pmPardon her
July 25th, 2007 at 12:36 pmExxxxxxxcellllent.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:37 pmWTF? August!? Why are our representatives helping Bush to run out the clock?!
They should have just gone for inherent contempt and dragged Miers to a cell right away.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:37 pmnice. this may be an ugly process, but I think it is a very necessary one as well.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:37 pmThe glacial pace of these proceedings is mind-numbing. The Constitution is literally on fire from the lawless behavior of the Bush administration and the next step won’t happen before the end of August???
Cancel the August recess!!!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pmI hope to see Miers lose her law license, too. It’s an abomination that an attorney would ever allow themself to be held in Contempt. That alone, the issuance of the citation, should automatically revoke her license.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pmBush: Ha!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pmDems run both the Congress and Senate so why can’t they just vote for this tomorrow? Can anyone explain?!
When I first heard of the vote I was so happy, but now I feel like I’ve been betrayed by a bunch of spineless dems again. What happened to the rule of law?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:40 pmFor what HG?
I agree with the posts stating the slow process. They are being very deliberate.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:41 pmmoe waste of tax payers money
July 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pmDems run both the Congress and Senate so why can’t they just vote for this tomorrow? Can anyone explain?!
Comment by SFdem — July 25, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
They may be trying ratchet up the pressure in order to reach some compromise wherein they actually get these folks to testify.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pmWhen I first heard of the vote I was so happy, but now I feel like I’ve been betrayed by a bunch of spineless dems again. What happened to the rule of law?
Comment by SFdem
They can’t push back scheduled votes or just insert a vote on something into the agenda like that.
It’s not being spineless, it is just how the Congress works.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pmIts likely they want to keep all of AUGUST open because the Iraqi Lawmakers/parliament are on VACATION in August and they will need to use all of AUGUST to hammer home the point.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:43 pm“They should have just gone for inherent contempt and dragged Miers to a cell right away.
Comment by SFdem”
Hopefully they are just allowing Bush to hang himself further by demanding that Gonzales not issue contempt citations. Once this is done, hopefully they will go for Inherent Contempt.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pm#8 ~ That’s why people have a low opinion of Congress, and why business people lament the time they waste in meetings. The more people involved, the longer it takes. However, the more people involved the less likely it can be subverted by a small group, or individual.
And their thorough and methodical approach forces the courts to write precedent if they want to derail justice.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pmDarknesse: But Dems run the Congress now so why can’t they just reschedule things? I am afraid that they’re just delaying the vote in order to cut some sort of a deal with the criminals in the White House.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pmHey, I have great contempt for Congress. When do I get my citation?
Gee, I wonder why the job approval numbers for Congress are even lower than Bush’s? Could it be the obsession with investigations into political maneuvers that do nothing but distract from its real job? Nah… that couldn’t be it…
July 25th, 2007 at 12:45 pmWhy can’t they cancel August break? Don’t they realize how important this is?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:46 pmHow do the Republicans justify this vote?
If I were subpoenaed, I would be required to show up, regardless of whether I intended to plead the Fifth on every question asked.
The Republican Party is above the law the rest of us are required to obey.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:46 pmI am more interested in finding out who were the 17 that voted against it.
Is there a place to find that out?
I ask because those seem to be people who care about the President more than the constitutional powers of the Congress as it pertains to Congressional Subpoenas.
To me, those are people who should not be in office.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:47 pmI thought I read somewhere that Congress was going to have various people going in every few days (taking turns) so that Bush couldn’t slip through any more ‘recess appointments’. Did anyone else read that?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmOK — at least the first step has been taken. After the August recess, the whole House will vote, and will likely support the citations.
Then, Bush will remind Jeffrey Taylor that no U.S. Attorney is to pursue any avenue that would undermine any use of executive privilege. Which means Taylor won’t do anything regarding the contempt citations. Ball is back in Congress’ court.
Congress will now (depending on what’s most important to them) make the inherent contempt move (if they truly want to get any info out of Miers and Bolten), or go straight for impeachment for abuse of power.
Either way, the ugliness that will be bubbling up from this may wind up being this season’s reality show.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pm“Gee, I wonder why the job approval numbers for Congress are even lower than Bush’s? Could it be the obsession with investigations into political maneuvers that do nothing but distract from its real job? Nah… that couldn’t be it…
Comment by Cynicon Implant “
Sorry Cynicon, your talking points are out of date. The latest polls had Congress’ approval ratings higher than Bush, not by much, but higher. Also, do you really want to see our government make the Justice Department an arm of a political party. Do you want that to happen when the Democrats are in office? Simple question requiring a simple answer, one I doubt you will give us.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmI am more interested in finding out who were the 17 that voted against it.
Is there a place to find that out?
Comment by Darknesse — July 25, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
FireDogLake was live-blogging this. I haven’t checked it out yet.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmWhy are the Dems stalling? Because the gutless hacks are afraid. Hey, Pelosi, why not just cite yourself for cowardice while you’re at it?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pmWho are the 17 against?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pmFrom what I understand, Pres. Bush cannot “pardon” anyone ffrom a charge of contempt. It can only be rescinded by the Judge or Body that issued the charge of contempt.
I guess our system of checks & balances can get around the Bush Administrations inability to follow the rule of law!
Ha, ha!!!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pmI understand the assumption that this delay is another sign of the unwillingness to act typical of this Congress.
But bobh and DM have made good points as to why a delay might be a good tactical move. It’s not about emotional staisfaction, people. It’s about restoring the rule of law, and that takes time.
Hopefully the emotional satisfaction will follow.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pm“I am more interested in finding out who were the 17 that voted against it.
Is there a place to find that out?”
Comment by Darknesse — July 25, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
Can’t help you with a detailed breakdown of the vote (yet), but I can tell you that there are 22 Democrats and 17 Republicans on the committee (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Judiciary_Committee). I’m sure you can do the math.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:51 pmmoe waste of tax payers money
Comment by crimedog — July 25, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
Please tell me you had the same attitude during the Clinton witch hunting. It will make it easier to take your opinions seriously as an informed and consistent thinker.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:51 pmOT – ‘Loose Change’ producer arrested for desertion: http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2007/07/25/jprowearrest0722.html
Heh!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThe vote was made along “party lines”.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pm#25
I agree with what you wrote, unless of course, something happens in August like an ‘attack’, disaster, false flag operation, or something that would trigger Bush’s Executive Orders that basically put us in a police state and Bush would be emperor. Congress at that point will have no more power or authority. We will no longer live in a democracy.
They have been slowly and quietly setting up all their pieces, covering all their bases, and building a private army. I am so afraid this is where it is all headed.
I wish Congress would just have acted today. It is time for real action, not talking about action. They can’t afford to wait another month to act. We are one incident away from losing our democracy. Even a year ago I would have said that was a crazy statement..
July 25th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThe glacial pace of these proceedings is mind-numbing. The Constitution is literally on fire from the lawless behavior of the Bush administration and the next step won’t happen before the end of August???
Cancel the August recess!!!
Comment by Kevster — July 25, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
Congress is designed to move glacially. That’s the whole point. A legislature is supposed to be a slow plodding dinosaur.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:55 pmGee, I wonder why the job approval numbers for Congress are even lower than Bush’s? Could it be the obsession with investigations into political maneuvers that do nothing but distract from its real job? Nah… that couldn’t be it…
Comment by Cynicon Implant — July 25, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
Wrong again.
WaPo/ABC poll finds 33% approvcal for Bush, 37% for Congress.
Do try to keep up.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:56 pmHey, Pelosi, why not just cite yourself for cowardice while you’re at it?
Comment by chadwick
No need to cite the obvious.
Also, do you really want to see our government make the Justice Department an arm of a political party. Do you want that to happen when the Democrats are in office? Simple question requiring a simple answer, one I doubt you will give us.
Comment by bilbobaggins
In my cynical world view (hence my moniker), there has been influence of the justice dept. by the party in charge for a very long time (spanning decades at least). Should it be that way? No, but good luck getting the corruption out of politics no matter who is in office.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:56 pmWhere is Harriet? She has got to be the first woman found in contempt of congress. Where is she hidding out?????
July 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pmJuly 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Does anyone know if this is being covered by the MSM?
July 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pmAw, sweeeeeet.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:58 pmHey, its a first step. I was astonished that this finally happened. I’d love to see it happen sooner rather that later, but its still a start. Hopefully by August some Republicans will be willing to jump ship. Like the song says, you’ve got to get it started if youre gonna’ get it done!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:58 pmImpeach Bush and Cheney and Save the Constitution!
Ringo, #34: off-topic much?
Hell, what am I saying? It’s Ringo! His whole schtick is “off-topic”.
My apologies.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThey may be trying ratchet up the pressure in order to reach some compromise wherein they actually get these folks to testify.
Comment by Egreggious — July 25, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
DingDing Ding!@ A winner. That is exactly what is happening.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThis is a tug of war, and they are using a come-along, one ratchet at a time.
I think they are pushing the chymp into the impeachment corner…
Rinko ~ Hey look, a half moon!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:00 pmWell, you can’t exactly see it, as it’s day time, but wow! A half moon!
what about Turd Blossom??
July 25th, 2007 at 1:00 pmNo biggie. They’re staging their next terror attack for August. This will all disappear when the bombing starts….
July 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pmCynicon-
You sound like you’re hyperventilating! puff, puff indeed. Breath slowly cowgirl. Thanks for wishing us well, though. That was sweet of you, I mean considering ya’ll are gonna get your butts kicked outta every office in the land in ‘08.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pmNo hard feelings then?
RUCerious: So you think compromise would be a good thing?! I am AFRAID that they’ll make a compromise with the criminals. No negotiation. Just throw out the bums. Now!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pmWhile waiting for this to come to the floor, I hope Democrats will publicly stress that 17 Republicans voted to allow Harriet Miers to ignore a subpoena, something none of us as regular citizens would ever be allowed to do.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pmContempt Citations Issued.
Schweet. The process drags on, slowly but surely.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pmRingo, #34: off-topic much?
Hell, what am I saying? It’s Ringo! His whole schtick is “off-topicâ€.
My apologies.
Comment by mikey r
—————————————-
Perhaps I should change my nic to Off Topic?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:04 pmHello! The question is, is this INHERENT CONTEMPT? Does anyone know? Or is INHERENT CONTEMPT a decision that is made when the full House votes?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:05 pmWhile waiting for this to come to the floor, I hope Democrats will publicly stress that 17 Republicans voted to allow Harriet Miers to ignore a subpoena, something none of us as regular citizens would ever be allowed to do.
Comment by Egreggious
Were the 17 all of the Republicans on the committee, Egg? No one crossed party lines?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:05 pmIf the compromise suggested is with and for Meirs and Bolten (to get their testimony) and not with or for Bush and Cheney (making the issue go away), then I can stomach it. Let’s get the big fish.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:06 pmWere the 17 all of the Republicans on the committee, Egg? No one crossed party lines?
Comment by Zehava — July 25, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
I haven’t seen a vote breakdown, but have read that the vote was made along “party lines”.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:08 pmDarknesse: But Dems run the Congress now so why can’t they just reschedule things? I am afraid that they’re just delaying the vote in order to cut some sort of a deal with the criminals in the White House.
Comment by SFdem — July 25, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
No they can’t. There are rules in how bills and motions are brought before the house. If they decided to do away with those rules, they would be no better (or more ljustified) than those who supported the Nuclear Option.
It is a terrible idea to do this as well. If a Majority party could do this, they could just sort of never allow the minority party to get votes on bills brought to the floor by constantly pushing them to the back in order to get their pet bills voted on.
Just because you are in power does not mean that you can change the rules.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:08 pmThey would make more headway in a more timely manner if they go ahead and start impeachment. This administration is so criminal and corrupt that the difficult part is who to impeach first. Probably best to start at the top, since that’s the point of origin.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:09 pmSFDem ~ given the nature of the beast called DC politics, even the courts try to get the aggravated parties to come to some sort of agreement.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:09 pmI’m not making a value judgement good or bad, right or wrong, just observing the phenomenon.
Hello! The question is, is this INHERENT CONTEMPT? Does anyone know? Or is INHERENT CONTEMPT a decision that is made when the full House votes?
Comment by Larry from C — July 25, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
NOT inherent contempt.
Apparently they’re holding off on that option until they see how the regular contempt charges pan out.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThey would make more headway in a more timely manner if they go ahead and start impeachment. This administration is so criminal and corrupt that the difficult part is who to impeach first. Probably best to start at the top, since that’s the point of origin.
Comment by Bob — July 25, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
As this plays out, it will strengthen the case for a successful impeachment and conviction.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:11 pmEgregg ~ My take is the same as yours. One painfully slow step at a time. Just hope the clock isn’t run out while we crawl along here…
July 25th, 2007 at 1:11 pm#62 Egreggious…It seems like you’re correct, but how do you know its Criminal Contempt. What’s your source?
Also, can you then try INHERENT CONTEMPT after Bush blocks the US Attorney from pursuing Criminal Contempt?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:13 pmI doubt it was Inherent Contempt, because they would send out the Sergeant at Arms along with the Contempt citation and arrest the person and haul them back to Congress, not just serve them with the citation of Contempt of Congress.
I would LOVED to have seen them served with the Inherent Contempt citations, arrested and dragged into Congress and jailed them in the dungeons under Congress (if there is such a place?) – then left for August break and let them cool their heels over all of August. Maybe they would be ready to talk in September..
July 25th, 2007 at 1:15 pmWe need to use the August recess to get our individual Representatives to act. Find them while they are in your district. Push them! It is always harder to get the snowball moving than to keep it accellerating.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:16 pmfrom the Friday Washington Post:
Bush administration officials unveiled a bold new assertion of executive authority yesterday in the dispute over the firing of nine U.S. attorneys, saying that the Justice Department will never be allowed to pursue contempt charges initiated by Congress against White House officials once the president has invoked executive privilege.
Pursuing Criminal Contempt will go NOWHERE. The clock is being run out intentionally. Bushco was BEGGING for Criminal Contempt charges. Conyers and the Dems failed us yet again. This is a gift to Harriet Miers. Its a scam and we were all duped.
The charge should’ve been INHERENT CONTEMPT. Harriet Miers should’ve been dragged kicking and screaming THIS AFTERNOON in the House and put on trail IMMEDIATELY. You can damn well bet if the situation were reversed the Republican would be doing this.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:18 pmWhat’s your source?
Also, can you then try INHERENT CONTEMPT after Bush blocks the US Attorney from pursuing Criminal Contempt?
Comment by Larry from C — July 25, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Larry, I’m trying to find a direct source for this. If you check out this WaPo article, it implies that it is criminal contempt.
You might also look at FireDogLake here and here for more about the hearing.
As to your second question, I know of no reason why both avenues cannot b pursued if necessary.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pmPerhaps I should change my nic to Off Topic?
Comment by Ringo — July 25, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
No need. They’re synonymous around here anyway.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:20 pm#65 – Larry from C
It’s in the first link on this post
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=362
Contempt of Congress
July 25th, 2007 at 1:21 pmAs I see it, they are doing this incrementally, first they’ll issue the regular contempt of congress citation, then send it to DOJ, knowing it won’t be acted on. Then they can say, see! We’ve done everything we can but with no effect. Then the Inherent Contempt will be the final step, as they can say they’ve tried everything else.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:22 pmPursuing Criminal Contempt will go NOWHERE.
Comment by Larry from C — July 25, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
You may well be right. But Congress probably felt it should pursue a more normal and accepted course before employing a rather “nuclear option”.
In addition, if Bush interferes with the DoJ on this, it only strengthens the case for impeachment.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:22 pmWhat we are chatting about here is the legal definition of “Contempt of Congress.”
In reality, the current administration (from top to bottom) have been in “contempt” of Congress since they first hit the scene after the Supremes handed the executive branch to them.
Now some members of Congress are trying to make them pay for their contempt. I am not hopeful.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:22 pmAgreed – Congress is giving them enough rope – first contempt charges. This makes Bush jump up and down, demanding that the Justice Dept. play on his team making him look like more of an ass (no really it’s possible)
Then Inherent contempt…unless they have something else in mind.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:23 pmThe problem is that this vote (as many others) went along party lines. We have widespread criminal conduct on the part of Bush and this administration. However, contrary to the patriotism shown by the Republicans during the Nixon presidency, the Republicans of today show that they are no more than part of a criminal mob. The president has already announced his position to block the enforcement of any contempt citations issued by Congress. Inherent contempt is a possibility, however, one would expect Republican opposition every step of the way.
I used to have respect for law (I am a recovering lawyer) and the political system of the United States. However, democracy and the law require some modicum of support by the people. The Republican politicians and their supporting dead enders have absolutely no respect. I would suggest that the Democrats should not be bound by the law, custom or courtesy. Republicans should be rounded up and placed in detention camps without hearing, access to counsel or any other civil liberty. They should be treated as the terrorists that they are. Military commissions should be established and as many Republicans as possible should be executed after an appropriate hearing.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:27 pmSigh,
Perhaps it is time for a play out of the ol’ GOP book-o-tricks…
How about a Constitutional amendment, along the lines of impeachment…
July 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pmPerhaps an Executive Recall mandate, some achievable house/senate mandate that would trigger a national plebiscite, covering the Pres/VP and their APPOINTEES. Would kinda force a sitting Pres to take notice of popularity issues, appointee competency, etc., no?
Twenty-eighth ammendment: Executive accountability and good governance mandate
You may well be right. But Congress probably felt it should pursue a more normal and accepted course before employing a rather “nuclear optionâ€.
In addition, if Bush interferes with the DoJ on this, it only strengthens the case for impeachment.
Comment by Egreggious — July 25, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
I agree. If they went in with big guns against Bolten and Miers, the rightwing, and their media, would go ballistic. They may do so anyway, but if we take the proper steps they have nothing.
We just have to make sure there’s someone out front saying it — loudly.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pmI would suggest that the Democrats should not be bound by the law, custom or courtesy. Republicans should be rounded up and placed in detention camps without hearing, access to counsel or any other civil liberty. They should be treated as the terrorists that they are. Military commissions should be established and as many Republicans as possible should be executed after an appropriate hearing.
You ARE a recovering lawyer!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:29 pm(I am a recovering lawyer)
Comment by JMOHR — July 25, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
My condolences. :)
I’m a recovering legal assistant and court clerk.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:31 pmTwenty-eighth ammendment: Executive accountability and good governance mandate
Comment by TorranaTony — July 25, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
It has crossed my mind that this criminal administration might actually spawn some Constitutional amendments. Especially as the Supreme Court interprets laws in ways that were never intended. It might be our one check on a radical Court.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:31 pmI am a recovering alcoholic.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:32 pm#40, tinfoil,
[ Where is Harriet?.]
July 25th, 2007 at 1:36 pm———————
She is in a bunker playing cards with Cheney.
They should have cited Miers for inherent contempt, and they didn’t.
And now, after 7 months, there will be a recess. Will they receive cookies and milk during this recess?
I have inherent contempt for the spineless way the dems are conducting themselves.
We all know that there would have been fantastic “fallout” for the dem party had they handcuffed her, brought her before them, and threw her ass in jail for inherent contempt.
And they threw it away.
Who to vote for in 2008? Kucinich is looking better to me every day, even though I haven’t taken him too seriously up to now.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:38 pmYou fools, there will be no impeachment. The Republicans have no respect for the law, the constitution or themselves. Republicans are by nature nothing more than common whores. Their only devotion is to themselves and serving whatever leader (pimp) that they think will best think for them. Have you seen the Republicans in Congress take one action against this war criminal president or his mindless criminal minions? This president deserves to be tried for war crimes and executed. However, the Republicans will not even rise to a vote to censure.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:39 pmMy Question is this: Is there really a possibility that the DoJ would go against Congress and not issue the citations?
I understand from reading the well thought out posts that it would be a good thing if it (DoJ) did because then we can get them with inherent contempt which strengthens the path to impeachment. But, would the DoJ go so far as to disregard an order from Congress?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:39 pm“…contrary to the patriotism shown by the Republicans during the Nixon presidency…”
Comment by JMOHR — July 25, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
My memory of the Nixon times is just the opposite.
The Republicans fought the Democrats tooth and nail until the Courts made Nixon cough up the “smoking gun.” They showed NO “patriotism” I was able to discern.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pmBut, would the DoJ go so far as to disregard an order from Congress?
Comment by IgnoranceIsNotBliss — July 25, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Likely, if it conflicted with an order from the President.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pmThe Republicans fought the Democrats tooth and nail until the Courts made Nixon cough up the “smoking gun.†They showed NO “patriotism†I was able to discern.
Comment by hterrya — July 25, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
When do we get our “smoking gun”?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:43 pm“…would the DoJ go so far as to disregard an order from Congress?”
Comment by IgnoranceIsNotBliss — July 25, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Based on Alberto (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire) Gonzales’ performance before the Senate Judiciary Committe, I would say, “You Bet Your Bippy!”
July 25th, 2007 at 1:45 pmWhen do we get our “smoking gun�
Comment by Egreggious — July 25, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Today wouldn’t be soon enough to suit me, Egreggious!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:47 pmI’ll be a recovering citizen about Jan 19, 2009
July 25th, 2007 at 1:49 pmNo hard feelings then?
Comment by RagingGurrl
Nah… I can’t really work up enough angst on this one to generate any hard feelings…
July 25th, 2007 at 1:52 pmComment by Egreggious — July 25, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Yay, Egg. :)
July 25th, 2007 at 1:54 pmIt has crossed my mind that this criminal administration might actually spawn some Constitutional amendments. Especially as the Supreme Court interprets laws in ways that were never intended. It might be our one check on a radical Court.
Comment by Egreggious — July 25, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
You know, that is a great idea. We might be able to do just that, if the NeoCons become a real minority party at both the Federal and State level in 2008. By that, I mean less than 40 seats in the Senate, and weak enough in enough States to pass the amendments.
It something to say our prayers for!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:57 pmIf I could only get Condi to quit plying with drink.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:58 pm*plying me*
July 25th, 2007 at 2:00 pmThis is slightly off the topic of this thread – but – yesterday I was listening to Ed Schultz, and he had Steny Hoyer (house – Maryland) on, and he was asking him about impeachment and other issues. Hoyer was adamant about not doing anything about impeachment because, as he said “in 18 months people can make the changes themselves”. 18 months? I can’t imagine what kind of damage these a$$holes can do in 18 months – do the dem leaders have any clue as to wtf is going on in this country?
Sorry for the diversion – but this has been driving me nuts
July 25th, 2007 at 2:02 pmmuzz ~ short answer, NO.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:03 pmjust heard a quote from snowjob
July 25th, 2007 at 2:03 pmcalling it “partisan…blahblahblah…”
like it was a pesky fly…
Congress is a pesky fly on the sh*t stained a$$ of the president.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pmWe’ll see about partisan when Harriet and her flunky companion are in DC Jail.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:07 pmWe need to ask these people:
Hon. Sensenbrenner Jr. , (R) Wisconsin, 5th
Hon. Coble, (R) North Carolina, 6th
Hon. Gallegly, (R) California, 24th
Hon. Goodlatte, (R) Virginia, 6th
Hon. Chabot, (R) Ohio, 1st
Hon. Lungren, (R) California, 3rd
Hon. Cannon, (R) Utah, 3rd
Hon. Keller, (R) Florida, 8th
Hon. Issa, (R) California, 49th
Hon. Pence, (R) Indiana, 6th
Hon. Forbes, (R) Virginia, 4th
Hon. King, (R) Iowa, 5th
Hon. Feeney, (R) Florida, 24th
Hon. Franks, (R) Arizona, 2nd
Hon. Gohmert, (R) Texas, 1st
Hon. Jordan, (R) Ohio, 4th
why they voted against holding them in contempt. Make them defend this partisan position! Why is a blanket refusal of a subpoena NOT an automatic contempt citation?
Republicans scream “PARTISAN!” but are never called out for it themselves.
These people marquerade as reasonable representatives of their districts. Make them justify their actions!
July 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pm#
We’ll see about partisan when Harriet and her flunky companion are in DC Jail.
Comment by RUCerious — July 25, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
#
Actually, Bush will make it partisan when he pardons them.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pmComment by muzz — July 25, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Steny Hoyer has been in bed with the NeoCons for a loooong time. When Speaker Pelosi let him have the Majority Leader post by “backing” Murtha, she cut herself off at the knees. Murtha, of course, is like Ron Paul. He is only right about the occupation of Iraq. His WRONG on everthing else.
And your post is not off-topic. We’ve been complaining about the spineless Democrats with regard to “Contempt of Congress” citations. Impeachment isn’t that different when it comes to “spinelessness.”
July 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pmDamn! Damn!
Keep your chin up, Harriet. The Supreme Court is still within reach and just be patient. In the meantime, keep shopping for a stylist black robe. You will certainly be nominated again.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pmPer Yahoo News, the vote was split down party lines.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070725/ap_on_go_co/prosecutors_contempt
July 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pmDoes anyone know how Inherent Contempt could work? Could they lock them up and let them sit for a while before they haul them before Congress to give testimony? Beings Bush suspended Habeus Corpus, do they have any rights? Like to a speedy trial?
July 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pmIf Congress locks them up and then hauls them before Congress to testify, if Congress doesn’t like their answers, could they haul them back into jail until they are ready to tell the truth and produce the documents that are being requested of them?
Is it true that Bush and his lawyers can’t intervene or interfere in Inherent Contempt?
#98 Muzz, I was posting here yesterday about Steny Hoyer’s comments.
He said YES to impeachment STILL being off the table.
He said he’s focusing his time and efforts on stopping the war. Ed Schultz brough up Dennis Kucinich’s plan: simply do nothing (defund the war/occupation) and use the remaining funds in the pipeline to bring the troops home. Steny Hoyer then showed his true colors and repeated a Republican talking point: That would leave the troops stranded and they’d have to find a car or plane to get home.
Steny Hoyer is a lying piece of garbage. They could end the war/occupation by defunding it. It takes NO time to NOT submit a bill. Then unlimited amounts of time would be freed up for Impeachment!!
July 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pmJG #108 – Inherent Contempt: She’d be handcuffed and dragged to the House by the Sergeant at Arms and Capitol Hill Police. She’d go on trial immediately. She could be jailed for the remainder of the term of Congress (about 1.5yrs).
Could Bush spring her free. My guess would be YES. But the public would see this and hopefully be very upset.
Then they should repeat the process with Josh Bolten.
Then again with Condi Rice who has ignored a subpoeana for months.
But the Dems don’t truly want to fight. They fear getting dirty. Too much cushy K-street money to be made. Better to do nothing and not take a risk.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:30 pmhterrya:
I remember watching the hearings in my frat house while I outlined my cases for Con Law. Yes, I am quite aware that the Republicans tried to assist Nixon. I would have to include Freddy Boy who leaked information to the White House concerning the impeachment investigation. However, the congressional Republican leadership did come around. Nixon did leave office without going through the messy process of impeachment.
We have had more than enough evidence of improper conduct by Bush and his minions to justify impeachment action against the president or his minions. Yet, we have seen nothing from the Republican side other than their noses . . . (well, how do you think the Republicans participated in the Bush colon procedure.) One would think that a delegation would have gone to the WH to tell King George to demand Gonzo’s resignation or that the Republicans would support his impeachment. Yet, this is the kind of patriotism (and political self preservation) that we have not seen. Sorry to say, the Republicans of Nixon’s day do look far more independent and patriotic by comparison because Bush and the current party have set the bar that low.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pmRIngo its pretty cool that kid is drawing more attention to himself and what he does. Now more people will know him.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pmIssue involuntary retirement orders to the follow congressional old-dog obstructionists:
Patrick Leahy (D-Vt)
July 25th, 2007 at 2:34 pmJohn Conyers (D-Mich.)
Arlen Specter (R-Penn.)
I am with Kevster and others above. Cancel the August recess and fasttrack these contempt charges. There is no reason to hold back on these.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:36 pmi seem to recall part of hoyer’s closing comments
about impeachment was something on the line of:
let’s get a democratic president and more dems
in congress and we’ll be able to pursue charges
after bushco leaves office…
i’m not sure how that would play out, but
i have heard that argument before…
(so, i may be mistaken about hoyer/ed conversation)
July 25th, 2007 at 2:36 pm.
a nearly-noon-time edition
of the “nightly nolo” here appears. . .
so, we see contempt bloom, as a small
flower, in the halls of congress, while
all around it bakes the desert of defiance
that is this white house, and this administration. . .
in under two-and-three-quarters-
minutes of highly condensed video. . .
rep. jackson-lee of mississippi,
decrying the echoes of nixonian
stone-walling — long ago defeated. . .
and rep. schiff, of california, laying
bare the nakedly-specious nature of
just about the entire white house
position on blanket executive privilege. . .
all with archival nixon and bush footage,
interspersed — to boot! enjoy the show!
let us move forward swiftly, and ferociously!
July 25th, 2007 at 2:37 pmMuzz, #98
I think the Dems have every clue, but they are part of the same corrupted political system as the pukes. Not much better at representing the people and upholding the Constitution.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:38 pmI am with Kevster and others above. Cancel the August recess and fasttrack these contempt charges. There is no reason to hold back on these.
Comment by calguy
I agree. The MSM is failing miserably at their job as it is, they don’t need an excuse to ignore it further. There might be a missing white girl!
July 25th, 2007 at 2:39 pmJMOHR:
Now that I think about this, this could be the gift horse that shakes up the Republican party, marginalizes the fundamentalist biblethumpers while forcing the Republican Party to go back to its small government roots.
Were the Democrats to be loudly protesting the President’s obstructionism alongside Republican Congresspeople, this could get out loudly to world+dog. “The Republicans for six years did everything in their power to shut out the minority, but now that they are the minority, they are doing everything in their power to block the majority position! They’re saying ‘if you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn’t worry!’ about the loss of our personal freedoms, but when it comes to investigations into their own possible wrong-doing, they stonewall like they did with Nixon. At least with Nixon’s batch of Republicans, they eventually saw the light. Now what?”
However, the Dems forget that they got into power thanks to the will of the true Majority, that’s us Independents, and are too damn timid to take advantage of the opportunity.
Tragic.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:44 pmThere might be a missing white girl!
Comment by Zehava — July 25, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
July 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pm———————————–
The classic tell-tale sign of TP satire. I still don’t get it… where’s r?
If Steny Hoyer’s position is backed up by the rest of the House Dems, the country is well and truly screwed. Are the collaborators in charge?
July 25th, 2007 at 2:52 pmSorry, cut my post off.
To address the point about Republicans eventually coming around, perhaps it’s a good thing that they don’t come around. If the Democrats take this bull by the horns, the Republicans stonewalling may ostracize their party for years to come. Give the Trolls what they want. Give them the victory they’re savoring on before they’ve even attained it. And let the center (who is the key to winning any election) see the outrageous obstructionism by this administration and its enablers in congress, and let the Republicans lose the support of the center.
Congratulations, Trolls. Your short term victory may well lose you the long-term war. You’ll be part of that 30% for a very long time…
July 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pmThere might be a missing white girl!
Comment by Zehava — July 25, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
The usual nutty obsession of sociology majors. Take comfort: the media unfairly shoves lefty viewpoints down the throats of the common man. You have little to complain about in the PR arena.
July 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pmTake comfort: the media unfairly shoves lefty viewpoints down the throats of the common man.
Comment by Lefty Cat Scan — July 25, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
I noticed the media really shoved Gonzo’s shameful performance yesterday down our throats.
Oh wait. They didn’t. Never mind.
July 25th, 2007 at 3:02 pmBooman Tribe:
July 25th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I want to cite the trolls for Contempt of the Truth.
Comment by VerbalKint
While you’re at it, why don’t you tack on Contempt of Intelligence and Decency.
July 25th, 2007 at 3:48 pm#110 Could Bush spring her free. My guess would be YES. But the public would see this and hopefully be very upset.
Actually, I don’t think he can. Inherent Contempt is a civil statute, not a federal statue, which means Bush has no authority over it, as his executive “pardon” power only applies to federal statutes.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:22 pm#127 Hrr…I’m not a laywer (thank god) but I disagree. As President, he can pardon any American held for any reason (except himself). I’m almost certain of this.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pmAhnuld shootz for the tohp
July 25th, 2007 at 4:42 pmTo protect the constitution as the US having coequal branches of govt judiciary panel issues contempt citations
It is outrageous that these intemperate, government-abusing authoritarians refuse to cooperate.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:52 pmComment by Larry from C — July 25, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Article II , Section 2.
[...] and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/
just sayin’…
and, did you happen to listen to randi this afternoon?
she spoke with “Democratic strategist, former aide to U.S. Senator Lloyd Bentsen, now contributing editor to Fighting Dems News service, Brent Budowsky.” today…
he helped explain why going for the criminal comtempt (vs. inherent/civil) is a better track taken…
for others curious:
1. it is the 1st avenue usually taken, it’s protocol
2. it the US atty in DC (an interim appointee) decides to prohibit the grand jury proceeding bringing contempt charges on orders from dumby, then that’s a violation, another one, grounds for impeachment
that’s from my notes… i could be mistaken…
July 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pm“As President, he can pardon any American held for any reason (except himself). I’m almost certain of this.”
No. He can only pardon those who commit “offenses against the United States,” i.e., federal crimes. He cannot intervene in a civil lawsuit, for example. As for Congressional “inherent contempt,” it’s a gray area and you will find lawyers arguing on both sides — that he can pardon and that he cannot. My suspicion is that he cannot but it’s anyone’s guess as to how this will end up.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:40 pmAlert, Alert! N.Y. Gov. Eliot Spitzer is being investigated for “misuse of state police to track a top GOP lawmakerâ€
Another corrupt Democrat we won’t see a story about on this website!
ROTFL, ROTFL, ROTFL
July 26th, 2007 at 8:39 am