I think your logic is a little flawed. Let’s try this thought experiment:

Let’s suppose YOUR ancestral homeland was stolen by a people who claim that God gave them that land.
Then, they round up you, your family, and all the others in the area and put YOU in concentration camps. You are no longer allowed to freely travel in your own country: you are now a second class citizen. Would YOU give up your land gladly to those who stole it, or would you fight? If you said you’d fight, well I guess you’re no better than the Palestinians, right? It might not matter to you that those who took your land did so because they are escaping persecution, or whatever, all you know is that your family lived on the land for generations, and now your whole life has been destroyed.

Yes, America did similar things to the Native Americans, but, we are not currently engaged in ethnic cleansing, if we were, then we would be discussing it! We gave the Indian Nations their own reservations, where (for the most part) we have let them be. And no, I don’t think that the Indians were treated fairly, but I don’t see the US government continuing to bulldoze Indian houses, building walls around/thru the reservations, etc, etc.

Yes, the Palestinians are wrong to use suicide bombers to kill innocent people, but Israel seems to kill a lot of innocent Palestinans.

When were the borders established and by who?

See it never existed only in your mind libtards…

No such nation has ever existed.”

Comment by FLACO — July 26, 2007 @ 12:43 pm

That’s funny (and ignorant). There are millions of people who would disagree and could point it out to you on a map.

No such nation has ever existed.

Comment by gummitch — July 25, 2007 @ 4:29 pm

That’s an east one, gummitch. Conflating the STATE of Israel with the RELIGION of Judaism allows those who want to see a STATE continue with illegal, immoral and internationally disdained actions to use a RELIGION as a human shield to cover for their crimes.

Israel = A sovereign country with a large population of Jews
Judaism = An ancient religion with members around the entire world.

Israel =! Judaism
Judaism =! Israel.

Get that through your feeble little talking points, trolls. Conflating Israel with Judaism is lazy, intellectually dishonest, and is used as a means of ending a conversation without actually discussing the issues on their merits. Just like conflating Islam with radical Islam.

But, you never hear these bloviating trolls conflating Christianity with radical Christianity, now do you? Why? Because then the meme can be pushed that America = Christianity and Christianity = America. But Americans simply wouldn’t stand for it, so that meme is simply…ignored.

Israel has defied international law. Repeatedly. More than any country in the world save Turkey. No country has disobeyed more UN resolutions. No other nuclear power in the world has been safer from inspectors and oversight of their nuclear weapons program. Many Jewish people love the country of Israel, but despise what those currently in power in the country are doing. Self-hating Jews? No, Jews who hate what a STATE is doing, not a RELIGION.

So stop trying to push such an idiotic meme, you silly little bridge-dwellers. It makes you look dishonest, lazy, and hateful. Oh, wait…

That’s a pretty good question considering this is the only post here concerning them that anyone can remember.

Comment by Zoom in

It was a foregone conclusion that Japan had already been defeated BEFORE we dropped the A-bomb. We didn’t need to do that to “defeat the enemy”.

But to counter your point, I think the reason we don’t win wars anymore, is we don’t make the enemy realize that its options are Unconditional Surrender or Death. And if that involves civilian populations as it did in WWI and WWII. That’s war.
Comment by Zoom in — July 25, 2007 @ 6:34 pm

But to counter your point, I think the reason we don’t win wars anymore, is we don’t make the enemy realize that its options are Unconditional Surrender or Death. And if that involves civilian populations as it did in WWI and WWII. That’s war.

Well, here’s where we disagree. The war against the Talibans was something pretty much well defined: get the Talibans to surrender. Same thing with the war against the Regime of Saddam Hussein.

But I think the fight against Al Qaeda is not a “war” that can be won by military means. How will you know that you can stop shooting and dropping bombs on the population? There’s never gonna be a white flag of surrender; there’s never gonna be a way of knowing that no one in the whole country belongs to Al Qaeda; there’s never gonna be a point in time when the US can say “Ok boys, pack it in, we’ve won, let’s go back home”.

What it takes is international cooperation, investigation, finding ways to remove Al Qaeda’s means of funding and recruiting terrorists.

And… to get back to the topic… the Israel-Palestine situation has been used, and will be used, by Al Qaeda, as an excuse to recruit more followers. Fix the situation (somehow… ) and you’ll be hurting the Al Qaeda organization as much as by blowing them up in the hills.

Well… that’s what I think, anyway.

Comment by Ringo

Its nothing like that. Jew != Israel… Israeli = Israel… Jew = race/religion.

And you expect us to take you seriously?

Israel didnt exist until it was artificially created in the 1948… So until there were people born under that flag there was no such thing as an Israeli… Rome dispersed the Israelis 2000 years ago. The NEW Israelis were born in the 1950s on… Some of these Israelis are arabs and not Jews at all. Which makes the NON democratic nature of Israel stand out even more because they call it a Jewish state as if all others are less than them… ie they disagree with “All men are created equal” which is a central understanding of the American style democracy.

Killing all Muslims to end the terrorist acts of some of them, is not ok. Blowing up buildings with civilians inside of them, just to get an enemy or two, is not ok. “Acceptable losses”, aren’t. “Collateral damage” is not ok, and will only augment the problem.
Comment by Luis M — July 25, 2007 @ 5:51 pm

Don’t get a big head, but you’re the most reasonable person I’ve encountered here. You probably don’t belong – joking.

The last para intrigues me the most, “Killing all Muslims”. We agree that there’s no point in that. We didn’t have to kill all Japanese or Germans. It’s the “bad ones” that we need to kill. But to counter your point, I think the reason we don’t win wars anymore, is we don’t make the enemy realize that its options are Unconditional Surrender or Death. And if that involves civilian populations as it did in WWI and WWII. That’s war.

I hope that doesn’t make me a bad person. The end of WWII wasn’t pretty. We dropped the stinkin’ Bomb! for crying out loud But at least we won.

Comment by J —

Nice.

I’m always fascinated to watch a wingnut try to rationalize the teachings of Jesus into an argument in favor of war. You can always count on them to bring in Matthew 10 and the “sword” he brings as a rationale for violence.

I don’t recall the passage where He says “Turn the other cheek unless there are more than on of you, then you can kick their ass.”

Comment by Ringo — July 25, 2007 @ 6:20 pm

Jesus came to me last night and told me the same thing.

Collective suicide would not be something that Christ would have advocated.

And when Jesus spoke of turning the other cheek, he was referring to the individual, not to entire nations or ethnic groups.

Comment by Ringo

No, Ghandi was a pacifist and morally consistent in his pacifism. Unlike, for instance, “right to life” supporters who encourage war and the death penalty.