Time For President To Come Clean On Tillman Cover-Up
Time For President To Come Clean On Tillman Cover-Up
Our guest blogger is Jon Soltz, chairman of VoteVets.org and veteran of the Iraq war.
The worst way you can further exacerbate the pain survivors of a fallen soldier feel, is to keep them wondering why and how their loved one died. Now past three years since former NFL star Pat Tillman died in Afghanistan, his mother, Mary Tillman, and her family do not have answers. Unfortunately, documents meant to put the investigation into his death to rest are only bringing up more painful questions, rather than calming them. What’s worse is that the case could start to have serious repercussions with internal confidence in the Armed Forces.
Yesterday, the Associated Press reported that among the files on the case that the news agency obtained were details of Army medical examiners being unable to convince the military to look into whether Tillman was intentionally killed. According to the documents, the wounds they found were inconsistent with the government’s original official story that Tillman was cut down by Afghan fighters and looked more like he was killed by an American M-16 just a mere 10 yards away.
After an investigation, the government changed the story — that Tillman was a victim of friendly fire, an honest mistake, because he was mistaken for the enemy. The recent revelations now cast this conclusion into serious doubt. You don’t mistake someone from 10 yards away. But, was it murder or negligence? Was this a deliberate homicide?
President Bush is not helping at all. With these new details, and his decision to invoke executive privilege in the Tillman investigation, the President is certainly sending the signal that he has something to hide.
It is inevitable, then, that unless the President comes clean, rumors about Tillman’s death will take hold. By stonewalling, there is no way to stop people from wondering, “Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?” It was well known that Tillman was critical of the decision to go to war, and had often read and quoted Noam Chomsky. I don’t personally believe such a conspiracy to be the case, but until the President comes clean, rumors like that will continue to grow. Every officer knows that if a soldier in their command is killed they must write the family and tell them the truth, for exactly that reason. Why can’t the man who sent Pat Tillman to war, and used his death for political gain, have the courage to tell a family what happened to their son?
Ultimately, besides causing unfair pain to the Tillman family, the President is perilously close to doing severe damage to the military with his bullheadedness. If America looks at the Tillman case and concludes that the military cannot be trusted to tell the truth and take care of its own, and that the White House is an enabler of that behavior, public confidence in our fine military will wane.
Recruiters rely on the family members like mothers and fathers to allow their 18-year olds to sign up. The longer this festers and the longer questions linger, these families and our young people will lose their will to serve our country. Who gives their child to country who doesn’t honor their sacrifice? We don’t need new hurdles to recruiting like that, at a time when we desperately need to increase the size of our active duty component. Additionally, those already in the military will lose faith that the leadership actually gives a damn about them, as the Tillman case becomes a hot topic in chow halls. Morale and confidence in the institution will crumble.
In the Army, we have a saying: Good units have problems, but great units fix them. In other words, we’re largely judged in the military by how we are able to step up, accept responsibility, and correct problems, because problems that are allowed to fester are unacceptable. Unfortunately, the Tillman case just extends the pattern from this President of being unwilling or unable to step up and fix problems.
In that sense, this President, everyday, firms up his legacy as the worst Commander-in-Chief this nation has ever seen.
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380 Responses to “Time For President To Come Clean On Tillman Cover-Up”
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Trolls say....
"Well it is war!"
"Clinton's Fault"
"There's no underlying crime here!"
July 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pmIt's obvious that there is no legitimate national security reason why the president would have to hide the facts around Tillman's death.
The only logical conclusion is that Dumbya is invoking "executive privilege" to avoid humiliating himself further.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pm"Who gives their child to country who doesn’t honor their sacrifice?"
Powerful stuff!!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:05 pm... thank you, jon soltz...
July 27th, 2007 at 6:05 pmSuggesting that someone might start rumors like “Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?†is tantamount to starting that rumor and IMO just as misleading as something you might see on DRUDGE! We need to do better than that! This sort of sleaze is beneath the high standards I've come to expect from Think Progress.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:07 pmPat Tillman was murdered by a sharpshooter. The proof is in the doctors report. Pat Tillman was an out spoken person who thought he was doing the right thing and listening to the President. Like all of our honest soldiers who found out they were lied to by not only the President but their State representatives. McCain is also covering up for the White House. He knows Pat was murdered but didn't say a word. This murder could also be pre-medicated murder as the upper rating officers played their part. Many more of our soldiers have been killed by US soldiers and those investigations will not take place because it will name names. We thought our enemy was Al Qaeda we now know the real enemy is the White House and their supporters. McCain should be charged with the cover up and the soldier who killed Pat should be charged with murder. Bush/Cheney/Rummy will give themselves executive privilege so not to take responsibility for their part.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:08 pmI hope Congress will keep the pressure on til we get the whole truth. The coverup smells.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:08 pmIt is obvious that the administration owes the Tillman's a very public apology for the way they have handled this thing. This is a disgrace.
Tillman Family... Thank you for your sacrifice. I'm sorry that we don't have the proper leaders in control of our country so that you would not have to go through this continued pain. We can never re-pay your debt, but many of us are trying to make it right. While no one would blame you if you did, please don't give up on your countrymen. We are trying to fix this thing, and slowly, with your help, we will.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:09 pmExecutive privilege? In a battle field case? Just what the hell is this?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:10 pm"I don’t personally believe such a conspiracy to be the case"
July 27th, 2007 at 6:10 pm-------------------
Good, neither do I.
"Why can’t the man who sent Pat Tillman to war, and used his death for political gain, have the courage to tell a family what happened to their son?"
The main reason is because it was not a "man" who sent Mr. Tillman to an illegal war. It was a self-centered egotistical sociopath that cares nothing for anyone or anything except himself. He does not have the human capability nor capacity to show remorse, sympathy, or concern for anyone or anything except himself and his desires.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:11 pmNobody died when Clinton lied
July 27th, 2007 at 6:12 pmI also think that Clinton's lie didn't screw with the hearts of families who've lost loved once. This issue is as cut and dry as health care, and they're going to lose all these battles.
Another horrid event so obvious a cover up....
July 27th, 2007 at 6:15 pmThe Bush ad has been nothing but LIES, cover ups,... one wonders are we really ever going to get to the bottom of all the filth, scum....
The events about 9/11, too, are becoming a growing concern to the masses. Could the masses handle that truth?
Anyone and everyone involved in the cover up of this murder should be held accountable for treason.
Why is Bush claiming Executive Privilege? Does he have Tillman's blood on his hands?
This goes so far beyond Republican vs Democrat, beyond left or right. This is a clear matter of wrongdoing. It will be interesting to see the trolls who defend this administartion on every issue, defend this cover-up.
If Bush knew about it, if Karl knew about it, if Cheney knew about it, they should all have three little matching holes.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:15 pm"Why can’t the man who sent Pat Tillman to war, and used his death for political gain, have the courage to tell a family what happened to their son?"
Because George W. Bush is a complete and utter coward.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:16 pmIf the bush administration has nothing to hide then why are they hiding?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:16 pmI wonder if Pelosi would move to impeach if it was discovered that the WH ordered the assassination of Pat Tillman to keep their public relations hero for arguing against the Iraq war.
I wonder if this is what happened. I think surely not, but can not rule it out.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:16 pmIMPEACH This USER of OUR troops to secure HIS oil.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:17 pmThis is a shame. This exposes the abject cowardice of the Bushistas and their "support the troops" mantras.
They only care about the US troops as agents of utility for their foreign policy agenda.
Nothing more.
-GSD
July 27th, 2007 at 6:17 pmIt wasn't too long ago when conservatives around here were saying, "hey, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got no reason to worry. Why the concerns about secrecy?"
Conservatives: if the Bush administration has done nothing wrong regarding the Tillman case, why the secrecy?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:19 pm"Ret. Col. Jack Ripper"
Aka Dr. Larry Korb?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:20 pmMr. P shows up to defend his God
.
.
Comment by nanlichi — July 27, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
----------------------------------------
How did you come to the conclusion that Jon Soltz is my "God"?
I agree with him, I don't worship him.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:22 pmWhat's Up, The Eck?!?!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:22 pmIf there's a dead soldier's grave around, you can bet Mr. Pee will be dancing on it.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pmBUSH COME CLEAN????????????????????????????????????????????
July 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pmMOAHAAAHAAHAAHMOAHAHAHAMOAHAAAAHAAHAAAAHAAMOAMOAHAAA
ACTUALLY, I AM CRYING!!!!!!
If one can't hate Bushites after this...
...truly ypu have no mind or soul...
July 27th, 2007 at 6:24 pmGood, neither do I.
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007
But then, NO ONE here cares what you think.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:24 pmAka Dr. Larry Korb?
Comment by The Eck — ?
GoTFreeDUMB? Mr Eck?????LOSE IT!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Hello Mr. President.
I salute you sir.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:25 pmWhat’s Up, The Eck?!?!
Comment by Mr. President —
July 27th, 2007 at 6:25 pmTALKING TO YOURSELF AGAIN?
Thanks, The Eck!
(say, you're not me are you?)
July 27th, 2007 at 6:28 pmThree American bullets in Pat Tillman's forehead.
It's as simple as that.
Keep claiming "executive privilege," Chimperor, no one will catch on......
July 27th, 2007 at 6:28 pmThis sort of sleaze is beneath the high standards I’ve come to expect from Think Progress.
Comment by Rob Carpenter — July 27, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I just couldn't disagree more strongly, Rob. Stoltz is not starting the rumor. All the ingredients are there. A major coverup, that Tillman was killed by his own mates, has already been exposed. The friendly fire "accident" version is very suspicious, and for Bush to invoke executive privilege smacks more than a little of further coverup. That Tillman was used to sell the war, then turned against the war, proved to be plenty embarrassing to the administration. Their own hero called their war illegal. Nothing frightens these cowards more than the threat of exposure for their war crimes. It all begs the question why.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:29 pmBig papa, nice to read you, sir.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:29 pmStoltz is not starting the rumor.
Comment by VerbalKint — July 27, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
I'll agree with that. This "rumor" has already made the rounds here and elsewhere.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pmPat Tillman was incredibly visible, well-known, respected and admired. He was becoming increasingly critical and disillusioned with this war. He had made arrangements to meet with Noam Chomsky when he came home. It was an election year. This looks REALLY bad.
I am so sorry for the family and friends. He did not deserve what happened to him.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pmSo...the govt really cares about its people, right?
And we are the conspiracy theorists.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pmRove ordered the murder.
Rove directed the spin.
Rove ran the coverup.
Prove me wrong.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pmConservative constitutional lawyer Bruce Fein has said that George Bush ran for president not because of a quest for power - he's given all his away to Dick Cheney - or out of an ideological passion - his ideology evolves according to whatever needs to be said to protect the president.
He ran for president because he was bored. He had nothing better to do.
That seems pretty much the way he's responding to the controversy about the death of Pat Tillman, which wouldn't be one but for GW's intransigence. He just can't be bothered to find out, and unusual for him, doesn't want anybody else to do what he's supposed to do.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pmCongressman Mike Honda who is the Tillman's family's congressman has been leading on the charge for the truth. I hope Mary Tillman gets an a truthful answer some day. She deserves the truth and so does the country.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:35 pmThis country is made of of mostly good, hard working, honorable people. Its just that there is a small group of insane misguided people with a stranglehold on power that are perverting what this country stands for and ruining it for the rest of us. They don't represent America. Frankly, I am not sure who or WHAT they represent.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pmSean Hannity has been yammering on and on about whether of not Vince Foster was actually murdered by the Clintons. They've been so concerned with Vince Foster, they've been arguing about him for 15 years now. Getting to the bottom of the facts surrounding Vince Foster's death is very, very important.
Pat Tillman? Not so much.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pmStoltz did not describe a rumor in which Bush ordered Tillman killed. He described a rumor in which someone ordered Tillman killed. It might be rumor that Tillman's CO ordered it, for example, or anyone up the chain of command, or possibly even CIA or NSA agents. Such a theory is far from outlandish.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:38 pmIndividually maybe one can say, well it looks bad, but...
But taken in whole, with denied subpoenas, The 911 Commission Report, No Bid Contracts, new "Treat as Classified" system of classifications, destroyed evidence from 911, destroyed video tapes from 911, missing black boxes from all 4 planes, missing passenger logs fron flights, panted evidence, fabricated evidence of "Yellow Cake", the "white paper" that never showed up, shadowy "put options" that the CIA director's ex company just happen to buy, stalling criminal inestigations with "Executive Privilege" claims, and it all starts to add up to one massive sh_t storm!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:40 pmOT:
Glenn Greenwald looks into Joe Lieberman's unholy relationship with evangelical Minister John Hagee.
Now who's the lunatic fringe?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pmSean Hannity has been yammering on and on about whether of not Vince Foster was actually murdered by the Clintons. They’ve been so concerned with Vince Foster, they’ve been arguing about him for 15 years now.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007
You have to wonder... does Hannity ever look at himself in the mirror, pause for a second, and ask himself... "Dear god, how did I ever turn into such a loathesome piece of crud?"
July 27th, 2007 at 6:42 pmJG: "Its just that there is a small group of insane misguided people with a stranglehold on power that are perverting what this country stands for and ruining it for the rest of us."
Yes, they're modern neocons, what Leo Strauss would call "special gentlemen," and, as Ace points out, their political philosophy rests on lying to the masses about their real goals.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:44 pmThis country is made of of mostly good, hard working, honorable people.
Comment by JG #46
...History might have a rebuttal or two...
...to dispute this statement...
...especially...
...the history of...
...the last two Presidential selections...
..."mostly good, hard working, honorable people"...
...would've revolted!
July 27th, 2007 at 6:45 pm"Ret. Col. Jack Ripper"
You're a member of the TP staff, right?
Just a yes or a no.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:46 pm(Plato’s “philosopher-kings†are, by definition, men - ace
---------------------------------
False.
See: The Republic, Book V, 454b-456b
July 27th, 2007 at 6:46 pmRove ordered the murder.
Rove directed the spin.
Rove ran the coverup.
Prove me wrong.
Comment by ace — July 27, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Ace, I appreciate that you post here and would not want you to stop doing so. Also, I am very disturbed by these recent revelations about Pat Tillman.
But this doesn't seem to me to be a very good way to approach this subject.
It's like me claiming that God is a bowl of spaghetti, and then insisting you prove me wrong.
You can do better.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pmThis is why the people more and more frequently are mistrusting Bush & Cheney. Why all the secrecy over things they don't need to keep secret. This administration has hidden more, classified more, and just plain said less then any in recent history. No wonder the American public is unhappy with them.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pm““The Dow lost more than 585 points, or 4.2%â€
It’s a great buying opportunity.
Comment by The Captain “
I thought the same thing at the beginning of the stock market crash the last time. I’m $200,000 poorer today because of thinking like that.
Comment by bilbobaggins
Bill, that's because you panicked and sold your stock. If you would have held to today, you would be $600k ahead.
If you would have bought Wal Mart in the mid 80's, it would probably have split about 9 times now.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:50 pmI'm really lost on this executive priviledge claim in this case. It amounts to a middle finger in the face of Mary Tillman. Hasn't anyone in Congress questioned this ridiculous claim?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm#6 Sharpshooter would be a single head shot. The report said 3 rounds close together. Very different.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pmno, I am NOT “Ret. Col. Jack Ripperâ€
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pmI Had Capt Stripes.
The NeoCons are the instument; like the SS or the Phyops division.
The problem is the same as it has been since The Gulf of Tonkin and the USS Liberty and Prescott Bush and Standard Oil.
Check out Bolivia and what the World Bank did to those people with Bechtel and Verizon. This story is why Hugo wanted our "freedom" out of his country.
The neoCons aren't the World Bank, they work for the World Bank and those super rich mega corporations. They used neoCons to devise a way to drive this country into a one world ecconomy.
Go after the NeoCons and go after the global banking systems.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pmI have been reading posts here for the past couple weeks, and some of the comments are just too "advanced" to be regular posters. They have to be staffers of TP coming in here posting.
Thoughts?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm#6 Sharpshooter would be a single head shot. The report said 3 rounds close together. Very different.
Comment by Toss these losers
3 shots makes me think of a m-16 on burst. does the m-16 have burst fire setting?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmThoughts?
Comment by The Eck — July 27, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
July 27th, 2007 at 6:53 pm---------------
Do you mean... too much truth?
Comment by Lee J. Cobb — July 27, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
Isn't it maddening how our elected officials haven't connected the dots even after all you have mentioned?
Is anyone listening in Washington?
Are the American people so out of touch?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmA question for the trolls here, if you are man enough to answer it. I won't hold my breath:
The question is, you seem to think that Bush has done nothing wrong. If that's the case, then why is he hiding behind Executive Privilege? Why would he invoke Executive Privilege in the Pat Tillman case.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmI have been reading posts here for the past couple weeks, and some of the comments are just too “advanced†to be regular posters. They have to be staffers of TP coming in here posting.
Thoughts?
Comment by The Eck
Intimidated by the fact that some here can actually "read' and "think"?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmI suspect "Ret. Col. Jack Ripper" is Faiz, Amanda, or one of the other TP staffers, for example.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmI believe the M-16 has 3 settings Full Auto, 3 round burst, and single shot.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmM-16 Doesnt, M-16A2 DOES.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pmA Burst of Three SHots.
The question is, you seem to think that Bush has done nothing wrong. If that’s the case, then why is he hiding behind Executive Privilege? Why would he invoke Executive Privilege in the Pat Tillman case.
Comment by bilbobaggins — July 27, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
July 27th, 2007 at 6:55 pm-----------
i dunno
Ummm.. the link to the president invoking executive privilege links back to this story. Just sayin> Hello?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:55 pmJust one thing to say. It's time for the Republican Party to experience electoral euthanasia.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:55 pmI suspect “Ret. Col. Jack Ripper†is Faiz, Amanda, or one of the other TP staffers, for example.
Comment by The Eck — July 27, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Does it matter?
July 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pmEck, no, I have nothing to do with the staff at TP, but thanks, I'm honored that you thought I might be. That's very kind of you.
Captain, I'm not as optimistic about the market, because of one major issue: world market liquidity. Two of the largest buyout deals in history went bust this week because institutional investors couldn't secure the credit. That's what sent the market into a tailspin yesterday and, on rumor, the day before. Today and yesterday, the market dropped precipitously at the very end of the trading period. That almost always means large insitutional investors were trying to unload holdings quietly withnout creating a panic. The last time world markets suffered from this kind of a lack of liquidity was 1929.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:57 pmThe older version M 16 Has Semi Automatic. Meaning one shot at a time.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:57 pmThe Newer version M16A2 Has Burst, Meaning Three Shots at a Time.
i dunno
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
and i dun't care.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:57 pmRanger Pat Tillman Was Murdered, But Who Ordered His Execution?
Friday 27th of July 2007
by Jay Randal
Newly released autopsy documents on Pat Tillman reveal that he was shot 3 times in the forehead, at close range, by an M-16 American issued military weapon.
According to the autopsy Tillman was professionally executed, by a skilled assassin, so a new investigation of the crime is mandated and the killer(s) found out.
All the soldiers who were present at the incident must be interrogated, by FBI agents not military police, so they are persuaded to reveal identity of the assassin(s).
Once the perpetrator(s) is/are revealed, then it must be found out if any conspiracy to assassinate Tillman took place, so was the Pentagon involved or higher up.
The Congress must not allow this crime to be covered up, nor for the investigation to be done in secrecy, nor for the White House to refuse to fully cooperate either.
Whoever are involved must be tried for Pat Tillman's murder!
(Jay Randal, political activist and writer in Georgia, USA.)
July 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pm"It’s time for the Republican Party to experience electoral euthanasia."
If the election were held today, Hillary would probably win. But it's not and a lot of things can and will change.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmThe NeoCons are an amalgamation of Straussian Philosophy, and yes, they do think the "noble lie" is key to keeping control of the masses.
But Rove is just a tool of those he serves. he is not smart enough for this plan, nor has he been around long enough.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmThere atre only two settings on the old m16
July 27th, 2007 at 6:59 pmthree on the new m16a2s i think.
If the election were held today, Hillary would probably win. But it’s not and a lot of things can and will change.
Comment by The Eck — July 27, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
As an "I'll hold my nose and vote for her" individual, I hope you're right.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pmRanger Pat Tillman Was Murdered, But Who Ordered His Execution?
There's a difference between "murder" and a contracted/ordered hit.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pmComment by Juan C #36
Hey Juan c,
...I knew you'd be carrying the banner...
...whilst I was on hiatus...
...our work is never done though...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pmIs anyone listening in Washington?
Are the American people so out of touch?
Comment by trueblue
Well, if we hadn't been distracted by Gonzo-gate, Kucinich is pressing for a full Independant investigation into these matters and the buildup to the Invasion of Iraq.
check out his sight.
but aside from him, everyone else is hiding for fear of being labled "radical leftists"
July 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pmThe neoCons aren’t the World Bank, they work for the World Bank and those super rich mega corporations. They used neoCons to devise a way to drive this country into a one world ecconomy.
Go after the NeoCons and go after the global banking systems.
Comment by Lee J. Cobb — July 27, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
Good point! Some of the more fringe "New World Order" people try to tie everything to "The Illuminati". People like David Icke and Alex Jones say the 60s, The Beatles, the ACLU, environmentalists, gays, Woman's Libbers, Al Gore, Satan, the Pope, Democrats, Owls, Vegetarians, and your mother are all members. Personally, I think "Globalization" is the key. Making a one world economy. The rich and the poor, and wipe out the middle class. All of this other claptrap is nonsense, and it makes serious fields of study like the police state and 9/11 anomalies, to be throw in the crackpot conspiracy bin, even though I have serious doubts about the official conspiracy theory about 9/11
Here's a good one for you
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260707_colbert_depopulation.html
July 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pmBut, back to Tillman. Medical evidence clearly suggests that he was executed at close range (within 10 yards) with an American weapon. This is beyond outrageous and we need to insist on an investigation. Tillman was an outspoken liberal. His favorite author was Noam Chomsky for crissakes. I want to know if some right-wing zealot in special forces fragged him! And, if that happened, I want to know if it happened on orders. And if it did, I want to know who gave the orders... AND SO ON!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pmI’m going to have sex with my wife tonight.
Comment by Jim — July 27, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Me too. Your wife's great!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:02 pmThanks for the update, I am have not served in the Military, but know plenty of people who have, and a 3 round burst if I remember correctly is pretty common on an assault rifle.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:03 pmI’m going to have sex with my wife tonight.
Comment by Jim — July 27, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Live Stream?
Tillman was murdered/contracted. I knew this when it happened, and this is just another nail in the Bushista coffin. These frightening revalations come out twice......no three times a day now, and I wonder what one year from now will look like?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:04 pmJack Ripper, i had heard his uniform was burned and that he was redressed.
Is this an accurate portrayal of the story-line, and if so it certainly would point to someone trying to ditch evidence of close range powder burns on his clothing.
have you heard the same thing?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:04 pmYou wish, Egreggious. :D
July 27th, 2007 at 7:05 pmI’m going to have sex with my wife tonight.
Comment by Jim
wait your turn
July 27th, 2007 at 7:06 pmSome questions have been answered as to why the White House is protecting the murder information about Pat Tillman. Pat was famous and other soldiers listen to him. Pat's mistake was he spoke out about how wrong Bush was. That's why this cover up goes all the way to the top. In the tight election the Bush team didn't need any trouble and Pat was his own man. Now it makes since why McCain, Military and White House used the information as classified. Pat Tillman was ordered to be murdered by those at the top of the Government. The idiots they are came up with a lam excuse of Pat's death in combat fire. As the leaks came the story changed and the order of no investigation. The proof is with the doctors report. Now we know why all we need to know is who gave the order and what soldier shot him.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:06 pmThere's no business like SHOWBUSINESS. Pat Tillman, ( And Jessica Lynch) Were unwilling actors in a propaganda narrative to boost Bush's war efforts. Needless to say, Tillman's criticism of the Iraq war, and his unfortunate and tragic death by friendly fire did not fit the storyline. Bush and his underlings obviously tried to cover this up...that's what he is trying to protect with "Executive Privilige"
July 27th, 2007 at 7:07 pmMe too. Your wife’s great!
Comment by Egreggious
OMG You Did Not Just Say That?!!
I'm torn between laughing my butt right off this seat or admonishing you.
OK. I'll take the former.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:07 pmBWaaaaaaaaaHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa!
You're not invited, Lee (Willy Loman).
July 27th, 2007 at 7:08 pmExecutive privilege is not to be used to cover up homicide.
It is disgraceful to the office of the President and disrespectful to the soldier who was killed.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:09 pmIt's OK, trueblue. It was funny. But I'm going to enjoy my wife of 10 years tonight!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:09 pmI’m going to have sex with my wife tonight.
Comment by Jim
Won't you have to inflate her first?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pmComment by Jim
I've been outed. I feel so dirty.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pmMy wife is not the blowup kind, like yours is, TROS. :D
July 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pmI fail to see how the case is made for executive privilage in this tragic case.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pmEvery time W wants to cover his ass, he invokes executive privilege. He's a supposed adult playing the kids game of tag and he's always "on gool."
I’m going to have sex with my wife tonight.
Comment by Jim — July 27, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Me too. Your wife’s great!
Comment by Egreggious
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
...(tears)...
...hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
..best laugh of the year...
...so far...
...Jim...
...I'd say there's a lesson to be learned here somewhere...
...unfortunately at your expense...
...hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pmThere’s a difference between “murder†and a contracted/ordered hit.
Comment by Mr. President
Whilst all murders are not "hits", all hits are murders.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:11 pmMy wife is not the blowup kind, like yours is, TROS. :D
Comment by Jim
Nice. the CO2 self inflating model? nice
July 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmTillman’s criticism of the Iraq war, and his unfortunate and tragic death by friendly fire did not fit the storyline. Bush and his underlings obviously tried to cover this up…that’s what he is trying to protect with “Executive Priviligeâ€
You may be right. But these bullets at close range, the unwillingness of those at the scene to talk, and the burning of Tillman's effects (including, I have heard, a diary), raise questions it would be nice to have answered.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmAssociated Press reports that the new documents released show (among other things) -
-- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
Problem with this is, Tillman was known by almost unanimous approval of his unit to be well liked.
Also: The young SP4 who was with Tillman when he died changed his story between seeing a Chaplain right after the incident, and testimony he gave at a later time. The Chaplain's report says the SP4 told him that Tillman had reacted to his "God help us!" kinda funk with a realistic "God ain't gonna help you, stop sniveling and help yourself!" response right before he got it. The later testimony has Tillman waving his hands in the air and calling out that he was a friendly... no mention of snivels.
The wild disparity between the two stories is a gigantic red flag, esp. when combined with the 3 round burst to the forehead at 10 yards bit. By all accounts the only person in a position to be that close to Tillman was that same SP4.....
July 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmMy wife is not the blowup kind, like yours is, TROS. :D
Comment by Jim
Oh, completely imaginary then, like all of Mr P's "friends"...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmI already admited it was funny, Big Papa. What more do you want?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:13 pm…â€mostly good, hard working, honorable peopleâ€â€¦
…would’ve revolted!
Comment by big papa — July 27, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
I sort of agree with you, but I am trying to be realistic (that doesn't mean others aren't being realistic). 'Good, hard working, well-meaning people' want to believe that people wouldn't lie to them. They want to trust people, even if they don't agree with everything they say or do, and believe that basically they have the good of the country at heart and would never LIE to them. I know this because my husband is a good man, very idealistic, intellectual and broadminded. He is a Democrat and a liberal. He tries to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. He may not agree with everybody's ideas or beliefs, but he thinks basically all people are good. He has been taken advantage of a couple of times and hurt in business because of his trusting of people who didn't deserve it.
I personally go by gut instinct and when I get a bad feeling about someone I will distrust them until they prove otherwise. My gut feelings are usually right.
As far as our leaders, people in this country just want to believe their leaders are trustworthy and would never do anything to hurt this country or Americans in general. Definitely you would hope that a President would NEVER send young men and women into battle without being damn sure that it was necessary. Surely a President would never LIE to his country!?
I think that in 2004 people were starting to wake up and realize they had been lied to. I don't think Kerry lost that election in 2004. I don't believe Gore lost the previous election either. I believe the 2004 election was clearly stolen through careful planning, manipulation, dirty tricks, voter caging, voter intimidation, etc, etc,..
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/06/con06219.html
I think a whole lot of people have woken up now. People are angry. I believe that the stolen elections are what is really behind all of Bush's claiming Executive Privilege, behind all the attorneys being fired, behind all the 'deleted' or missing emails, documents, records, etc.. If Congress will just stick to their guns and take this to the finish they will have a chance at finding the truth. If we can expose this and hold these guys to account, then perhaps we can take steps to ensure this can't happen again. Sure, they have done a LOT of very bad things, but I think this is a big one. It is a CRIME.
As far as Gore, I could never understand why if Bush thought he had won fair and square, then why couldn't all the votes be counted? Why was that threatening? And how can ANY election in this country count for anything if every American who voted doesn't have his vote counted? This stops being a democracy. I guess that would be the point.. Is this still a democracy?
I am very uncomfortable with the fact that people have not become more demanding about uniform, verifiable method of voting before this next very important election arrives. We have to take steps NOW to ensure these same people don't prevent this country from having FAIR and ABOVE-BOARD elections.
OK, stepping off my soap box..
July 27th, 2007 at 7:13 pmLee Cobb: "have you heard the same thing?"
Yes, they actually reported that in some of the news releases regarding his death but it was never really discussed in the media. Very strange to burn his uniform at the site. The whold thing just stinks to high heaven. That conservatives are trying not to notice should tell us volumes about their character.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:13 pmComment by Marie #105
...ALL of these Bushite theatrics...
...are aimed at...
...running out the clock on his administration...
...WE CANNOT LET THEM OFF THE HOOK...
...EVER!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pmYour right hand is not imaginary, TROS.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pmLee (Willy Loman) I see you have experience using the CO2 model.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pm3 years and Tillman's family is still waiting for the truth....
July 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pmI hope they get the answer they have been waiting for as soon as possible.
Comment by JG #113
...one simply MUST...
...pay attention to...
...History...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pmMr. President > murder is murder, whether done by a nut or a contracted killer. Whoever shot Pat Tillman must be found out and prosecuted for the crime. During the trial the killer can try to claim it was accidental, but the evidence shows otherwise. Was Tillman fragged or contracted to be iced? An investigation has to be done to find out.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pm…hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Comment by big papa
Careful, big papa, you can hurt yourself REAl bad laughing at the trolls. I did about 2 weeks ago, and I'm still sore.
(I think it was Mr P's now famous "Saudis aren't Moslems" comment...
Snicker... snicker - ouch -snicker - ouch... BWAHA-ouch-HA-ouch-HA-ouch... damn, and just when I was gittin' better... HA-ouch-HA-ouch...)
July 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pmbig papa: "…WE CANNOT LET THEM OFF THE HOOK…
…EVER!"
There's actually no running out the clock on this one. This one could be an actionable legal issue years after these guys leave office.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:17 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
That would lead me to believe that it was someone who didn't like his politics.
but i have also heard, that there is alot of strange stuff going on over there with our soldiers. They are in a bad situation and alot of them are coming to the conclusion that they are there for bad reasons.
Maybe Tillman saw something that was conducted by fellow soldiers and they thought he couldn't be bought or scared into silence.
Maybe it had to do with the drug lords that the administration lets run certain areas. Who knows. But if they shot him at close range and then burned the clothing to hide the gunpowder residue, it should be investigated.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:17 pmLee (Willy Loman) I see you have experience using the CO2 model.
Comment by Jim
I got no time for pumps! Click, squeeze, ahhhhhhhh. then back to the cheese puffs.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:18 pmOne has to wonder why the president is willing to endanger the ability to recruit new soldiers over this single death?
Why is this so important to invoke executive privilege? Americans understand friendly fire, they understand mistakes happen, they forgive and let live, (how do you think you got elected again W?) however Americans don't like to be lied and misled to time and time again.
Why are you hiding information on this President Bush? Why?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pmThis one could be an actionable legal issue years after these guys leave office.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Correct, Col. I don't think there is a statue of limitations on murder.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pmHey, I FINALLY got namejacked!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 27, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
You actually got namejacked a couple of days ago. But I slammed them for you.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:21 pm..best laugh of the year… - big papa
-----------------
Wow. You Lefties really are a dreary bunch!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pmYes you did. How them apples?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I think it's hilarious. I'm kinda suspecting Mr P. He's such a wienie that it's the only way he can fight back, at this point.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pm…one simply MUST…
…pay attention to…
…History…
Comment by big papa — July 27, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
So why do we keep repeatings the same stuff throughout history over and over again?? (Shaking my head while I ask that). Why do we let it keep happening? Do we think "they wouldn't do that again would they??"
July 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pmSometimes I think it is easiet to lie and mislead people if you make the lie REALLY huge and outrageous, because then they would think nobody would every do something like that.. I think that is what is happening here. They have lied REALLY BIG! People can't open their minds to the possibility..
I have been reading posts here for the past couple weeks, and some of the comments are just too “advanced†to be regular posters. They have to be staffers of TP coming in here posting.
Thoughts?
Comment by The Eck — July 27, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
"Advanced?" I think this is a first - a troll actually admitting his ignorance in the light of a factual discussion!!!!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pmYou actually got namejacked a couple of days ago. But I slammed them for you.
Comment by Egreggious
Really??? I missed taht one. Uh... what did "I" say?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:23 pmThere’s actually no running out the clock on this one. This one could be an actionable legal issue years after these guys leave office.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper #122
...but will there be the political will?
...To be certain the pain...
...(when the bill for Iraq/Cheney and Halliburton comes due)...
...is imminent...
...but will the people in their zeal to, "Let's just move on" (from this nightmare)...
...have the stomach to go after the Bushite TRAITORS...
...who are (at least subliminally)...
... many of these peoples' "champions"...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pmTROS has his eye on you big guy. :D
Comment by Jimbo
This really does not sound like a Jimbo comment either.
How many personalities do you have, Mr P?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThe Pentagon has not explained WHO decided to strip Tillman's clothing off his dead body and burned it? From the moment Pat was shot dead a cover up began and the Pentagon has taken part in it. If Pat was fragged by another soldier, over some personal issue, then the Pentagon should have prosecuted the soldier and hanged him.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:25 pmBut I slammed them for you.
Comment by Egreggious — July 27, 2007
Thank you, BTW...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pmRove ordered the murder.
Rove directed the spin.
Rove ran the coverup.
Prove me wrong.
Comment by ace — July 27, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Ace, I appreciate that you post here and would not want you to stop doing so. Also, I am very disturbed by these recent revelations about Pat Tillman.
But this doesn’t seem to me to be a very good way to approach this subject.
It’s like me claiming that God is a bowl of spaghetti, and then insisting you prove me wrong.
You can do better.
-----------------------------------------------------
Any thread that mentions BushCo., Halliburton or Jews ace is gonna sniff out.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmApparently you suddenly came to the realization that you were gay.
Comment by Egreggious
Damn... Mr P is his own "One-man clusterf*ck" today.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmIf Pat TIllman had been killed by another soldier over something personal, the military wouldn't have burned his clothing and all her personal items. Why the need to burn his diary? That was the point I realized this was about something else.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmThis is really where I was afraid these broad claims of executive priviledge could lead. We're talking about possible murder here, and this administration is abusing the priviledge now beyond anything we've seen before, making itself complicit in what could be a horrible crime, co-conspirators in the cover up of a murder. I don't think that's what executive priviledge was meant to be.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmAny thread that mentions BushCo., Halliburton or Jews ace is gonna sniff out.
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007
WARNING! WARNING!
Do NOT reply to this troll AT ALL!!!!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:28 pmLet me repeat TP talkin' points:
Oil
July 27th, 2007 at 7:28 pmBushCo.
Jews
Halliburton
TROS is not gay. He's bi. :D
July 27th, 2007 at 7:29 pmDamn… Mr P is his own “One-man clusterf*ck†today.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 27, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
He's used to playing all of the roles in, er, social intercourse.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:30 pm“Why can’t the man who sent Pat Tillman to war, and used his death for political gain, have the courage to tell a family what happened to their son?â€
The main reason is because it was not a “man†who sent Mr. Tillman to an illegal war. It was a self-centered egotistical sociopath that cares nothing for anyone or anything except himself. He does not have the human capability nor capacity to show remorse, sympathy, or concern for anyone or anything except himself and his desires.
---
July 27th, 2007 at 7:31 pmThere is no way I can anyhting to this post - but it's worth posting again.
Lee, I think you make a very good point about the system of deception surrounding us.
People still think that Bush, ROve and the front faces are in charge of these disastrous govt actions. IN fact, they are just the enablers, the real owners of the system just make phone calls from their high offices and sunny beaches.
These national extremists are not guided by Bush or Cheney, in any way.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:31 pm"There is no way I can anyhting to this post"
Did you type this too fast or something?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:32 pmI hear you, Big Papa, but I don't think anyone could possible move on from this one. This is a balls out execution and the more people hear about it the more people are going to be angry. This one will build, not fade away.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:32 pmtroqua > now that autopsy material on Tillman proves he most likely was murdered, the White House can NO longer claim executive privilege. Bush cannot use that to cover up a murder.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:33 pmSo why do we keep repeatings the same stuff throughout history over and over again??
Comment by JG #136
...CHANGE...
...my dear JG...
...even for the better...
...is perhaps the most difficult transformation to digest/accept...
...serious personal introspection (and historical analysis) bears this out I'm sure...
..."staying the course"...
...especially that of privilege (pleasure)...
...even if it portends one's eventual destruction...
...is easier to embrace in the short term...
...than concerning onesself with long term consequences...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmI believe the M16A1 had single shot or full auto settings; the A2's normal infantry settings are single shot or three-shot bursts. Tillman's Rangers worked with Special Forces and may have had variants that have full auto settings.
A three-round burst into the forehead - about a 4" radius target - at less than 30 feet seems odd unless Tillman were on the ground and incapacitated. Those rounds leave the muzzle at about 2800 feet/sec; at thirty feet or closer, a .223 caliber rifle round packs quite a wallop. If he were alert and moving, he would have moved or fallen, or the impact would have changed his head's position before the third round hit it. Odd, too, that the rounds hit him and not his helmet.
So the story is materially incomplete or Tillman was flat out when the rounds were fired, which means a coup de grace, not so-called friendly fire. A competent investigator would certainly investigate that possibility, if he or she weren't under orders not to. Since "the Army" ordered his clothes, armor and effects destroyed - odd don't you think, it's usually the other way round - we may never know what happened. But once again, Bush is covering up. Not for the family's sake, clearly; as usual, for his own.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity ........
People actually respond to that nimrod, Flaco?
OT:
Cheney to Get New Battery
**damned energizer bunny**
July 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmPat’s mistake was he spoke out about how wrong Bush was.
Tillman said much, much more than that. He said that the Iraq war was illegal. He said it repeatedly, and he was going to tell it to the whole country when he returned home. Saying this is tantamount to calling the president a war criminal. This is serious stuff.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmthanks, many times.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmHey Juan c,
…I knew you’d be carrying the banner…
Comment by big papa
There are others far more capable of doing that. Thanks, anyway.
Glad to have you back.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmI agree. Egregious, Tros get a room guys.
Comment by Jimbo — July 27, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
July 27th, 2007 at 7:36 pm--------------
But that will make Lee J. Cobb jealous!
Juan C is carrying the banner for the Democrat party.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:36 pmCheney to Get New Battery
**damned energizer bunny**
Comment by trueblue
You probably need a new battery for your vibrator. :D
July 27th, 2007 at 7:38 pm#50 Comment by Egreggious — July 27, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
OT:
Glenn Greenwald looks into Joe Lieberman’s unholy relationship with evangelical Minister John Hagee.
Now who’s the lunatic fringe?
Right on! Greenwald rocks! Thanks for the link, Egreggious.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:38 pmHi Juan!
It's been quite a while. :)
Everyone,
Ignore "Jimbo"
July 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pmIt's a hijacked name, who should be banned soon enough if we all write TP.
HeyooOOOoOOOooooooooOooooooOOoooOOoOoOo Mr President!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pmIgnore “Jimboâ€
It’s a hijacked name
------
It certainly is not!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:40 pmCelebrity is a double edged sword. The same FAME that Bush used in his HERO narative will keep this COVERUP narrative in the news. Lots of folks, who don't follow the news, know who Pat Tillman was.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:40 pmIt’s a hijacked name, who should be banned soon enough if we all write TP.
Comment by trueblue — July 27, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
No it isn't:
Jimbo =/= jimbo DUDE
July 27th, 2007 at 7:41 pm"The same FAME that Bush used in his HERO narative will keep this COVERUP narrative in the news."
John Kerry covered up his military records.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:42 pmFlaco, I see you noticed ace's posts!
They are getting out of control!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:42 pmOutSourced post 165 > interesting points you make. Could Pat have been shot from just a few feet away to make sure he died? Wounds to his forehead were very accurate and could denote Pat laying down or in sitting position before he is executed. Sounds more and more like an execution.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:42 pmTrolls, the fact that you're crapping all over a discussion on the murder of Pat Tillman with your absurd, childish posts says much more about your character then I'm sure you'd like to think.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:44 pmI just obtained this document from the White House:
July 27th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Have to go eat, but will be back.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:44 pm"Sounds more and more like an execution."
Wishful thinking on your part.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:44 pmHi Juan!
It’s been quite a while. :)
Comment by trueblue
Hi, C!!
Yes, sort of, becuz Im checking you out at Facebook, sweetie. :D
July 27th, 2007 at 7:44 pm"the murder of Pat Tillman"
Do you have a witness?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:45 pm**blush**, Juan.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:46 pmTrolls, the fact that you’re crapping all over a discussion on the murder of Pat Tillman with your absurd, childish posts says much more about your character then I’m sure you’d like to think.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
-----------------------------
By all means, don't let us keep you from your conspiracy theories.
Here, I'll start it off for you:
I'm sure you can cook up something with that!!!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:46 pm“the murder of Pat Tillmanâ€
Do you have a witness?
Comment by Jimbo — July 27, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
We have a dead body riddled with bullet holes.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:47 pmThe comments in this thread are despicable. I just joined and I am a liberal Dem.
But I gotta say you guys gotta be ashamed of yourselves. You are bickering mostly about stupid BS on a topic about a man that gave up a million dollar professional athletic job to fight Al Qaeda so another 9/11 would never happen again. This man is the pinnacle of the American dream and spirit, and you break down into banal comments about what? What?!?!
The man was murdered by another US soldier. President Bush covered it up and used his death as political fodder for 4 weeks, while know he was killed by friendless, because it bolstered the right wing talking points and validated the war in Iraq!
And now we learn of all of this, and this thread is pure trash.
You make me embarrassed to be a member of the Democratic party with this sort of drivel.
You are dishonoring Pat Tillmans name and his family.
call your representative on Monday and demand and investigation,!!
NOW!
July 27th, 2007 at 7:48 pmThe key in the next few days will be television news. Will they discuss this and, if they do, will they keep the discussion going. The mainstream television media discussed purely speculative conservative suspicions about Vince Foster's death for months. 15 years later, Sean Hannity is still going on about it.
Memo to Hannity: three tightly grouped American bullits to the forehead of a true American hero. Are you interested?
If Hannity isn't interested, his adoring fans should wonder why.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:48 pmOh my! you mention Chomsky.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:49 pmHe is a god here at TP.
If Hannity isn’t interested, his adoring fans should wonder why.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Perhaps because there is a missing rich white girl somewhere.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:49 pmHaven't been able to post much lately, and the threads are really long by the time I do. So, pardon my ignoranceof what has transpired prior to my arrival.
I scanned the posts here before typing this, and other than some inane BS by Mr. Peepee (who seems to have no sense of propriety, appropriateness, or social grace), I don't see much from them regarding this topic. I find it strange that they would abandon their no-holds-barred support of this obviously corrupt administration when confronted with what might be the most evil, unpopular, and unpatriotic deed yet perpatrated by their thug brethren. Te trolls smell blood - real human blood - and it scares them.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:50 pmBut Rove is just a tool of those he serves. he is not smart enough for this plan, nor has he been around long enough.
Comment by Lee J. Cobb — July 27, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Rove has specifically trained attributes, and like Lee Atwater before him, uses them very well. It is not his job to "plan", his job is to propagandize. Nothing more. And yes he is a tool. A very valuable and successful tool for the neocons.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:50 pmOh my! you mention Chomsky.
He is a god here at TP.
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
-------------------
July 27th, 2007 at 7:50 pmJuan wants the "C" to stand for Chomsky!
The key in the next few days will be television news. Will they discuss this and, if they do, will they keep the discussion going.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper #193
...sorry Colonel...
...the msm has its marching orders...
...destroying the Obama campaign...
...no time for dead soldiers...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:51 pmdead body...bullet holes....AND a CHANGING STORY!!. Red Flag to a competent investigator.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:51 pmHere's another post that bears repeating (even if it is mine):
If there’s a dead soldier’s grave around, you can bet Mr. Pee will be dancing on it.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:52 pmDo you have a witness?
Comment by Jimbo
Evidence. Cases can be solved solely with evidence.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:52 pmSuggesting that someone might start rumors like “Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?†is tantamount to starting that rumor and IMO just as misleading as something you might see on DRUDGE! We need to do better than that! This sort of sleaze is beneath the high standards I’ve come to expect from Think Progress.
Comment by Rob Carpenter — July 27, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
Then what do YOU think the admin is using EP for? Bush and Cheney are obviously involved in this, and it wasn't because they were sitting in the White House, behind the scenes, and ordering the Army to come clean in this case.
It's because of g-damn shit like this that we get Cheney screaming "national security" when the cops want to question him for shooting a man in the face. No, they have to come back tomorrow. Cheney had been drinking and didn't want to get caught. There's no other reason.
As for sleaze, I'd rather get my sleaze from here than from the f-king Bush administration any day.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pmJimbo: "Do you have a witness?"
No, Jim, but we do have three tightly grouped American bullets to the forehead, a burned uniform and diary and a victim who was an outspoken proponent of an unpopular viewpoint in special forces.
How much do you need to suspect foul play?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pmmurder v. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:55 pmIt is inevitable, then, that unless the President comes clean, rumors about Tillman’s death will take hold. By stonewalling, there is no way to stop people from wondering, “Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?â€
Rumors that is all it takes for moonbats.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:57 pmMurder? prove it!
It Stands For My Name, D*ckhead.
Man, you ARE stupid.
Comment by trueblue
Dont hold anything back, true. :D
These idiots deserve zero attention though. But some slapping around is fun now and then.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:57 pmIt seems certain people here seem to think that when you ridicule something, it means it didn't happen.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:57 pmNo amount of ridicule is going to make this story go away. I think there is finally a chance for the truth to come out.
Rumors that is all it takes for moonbats.
Murder? prove it!
Comment by Flaco #211
...Meet me...
...and we'll...
...re-enact it...
July 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pm…has metastisized from its groin…
…to its brain…
Comment by big papa
Hahahahaha!!!
metastisized... that was so funny.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pmThen what do YOU think the admin is using EP for? Bush and Cheney are obviously involved in this, and it wasn’t because they were sitting in the White House, behind the scenes, and ordering the Army to come clean in this case. - WC
I completely agree with that. I cannot for the life of me understand how EP is appropriate here, unless there are documents, emails, phone call records in the WH that show the administration was actively involved in the coverup. And we know now, there was a coverup. Was it murder? We can't know that until there is a full investigation, and there can be no investigation without full access to everyone involved. Oh, and be sure Rove was there - the crypt keeper.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pmMurder? prove it!
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
The Administration could help by releasing documents relating to Tillman's death.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pmBig Papa, since Tillman has "star power," we might see a tipping point here. I'm sure 60 Minutes is looking at this. I'm sure Olberman will be ranting about it pretty soon. I'm hoping the Tillman story is simply too compelling for them to ignore.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pmHow much do you need to suspect foul play?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper #208
..it needs its god Bushiva's (or L'il Dick's) personal stamp of...
...ass'urance...
July 27th, 2007 at 8:01 pmYeah, ok. Your day is coming.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:02 pmFlaco,
Tell us what happened.
Please include all of the known evidence in your explanation.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:02 pmYeah, ok. Your day is coming.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
----
July 27th, 2007 at 8:03 pmoh.
The Administration could help by releasing documents relating to Tillman’s death.
Comment by Egreggious
change Tillman´s death with 9/11. Same thing.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:03 pmTrolls, don't you want to know the truth about what happened to Pat Tillman? If not, why? Isn't there the slightest interest surrounding the facts surrounding his death for you? I mean really. What is the problem? An NFL guy gives up millions to fight with special forces in Afganistan, he dies under suspicious circumstances and later, we find that he had three tightly grouped close range American bullets to the forehead and his uniform and diary were burned in the field before he was returned. No, come on, Trolls, think about it. What the hell are you doing? Are you with the good guys or are you with the bad guys?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:04 pm"It is inevitable, then, that unless the President comes clean, rumors about Tillman’s death will take hold. By stonewalling, there is no way to stop people from wondering, “Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?â€
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 27th, 2007 at 8:06 pmHe is not the only soldier critical of the war.
Bush isn't ordering soldiers to be killed because they don't agree with him on the war idiots.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
He was a victim of friendly-fire, he isn't the first and he won't be the last.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:06 pmAnd, understand, Trolls, I'm not in any way saying Bush had anything to do with this death. I'm just wondering why you would not be interested in finding the truth in this.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:06 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
You address these perverts as if they are normal, albeit misguided, Americans. They're not normal and they're not Americans.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:07 pmRet. Col. Ripper - it's hopeless. These people will even excuse murder. They aren't interested in the truth. The big lie is justified for their perception of the greater good. It's been said before. Bush could eat a live baby on tv and they would find it justifiable for their own perverted reasons.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:08 pmAll of these ugly secrets coming to the surface.
The librul media remains quiet.
Bill O'Reilly, Robert Novak, and FoxNews in general try their best to discredit all liberal blogs.
Hmmmm.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:08 pmFound out the truth.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:09 pmIgnore rumors spread by tabloids like TP.
Well then, let him shine a little light on the subject and stop acting like he had him murdered. Why the cover-up?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:09 pmHey Flaco. Do you want to answer the question I asked in #67? I dare you. Mr. Pee answered.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:10 pmSo why cover it up?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:10 pmOh yes Bush the prophet of god. Good one inJustice :-)
July 27th, 2007 at 8:10 pmI’m sure Olberman will be ranting about it pretty soon. I’m hoping the Tillman story is simply too compelling for them to ignore.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper #219
...Forgive my skepticism Colonel...
...but two White House advisers (Miers and Bolten)...
...are under threat of contempt of Congress citations...
...Abu Gonzo is STILL AG...
...and the TRAITORS in the White(man's) House are STILL robbing us blind...
...with NO appreciable outrage (the in the streets kind)...
... from decent, honorable, hard working Americans...
...hmmm...
and these acquiescent Bushite TRAITORS are your:
family members
July 27th, 2007 at 8:12 pmneighbors
friends
co-workers
acquaintences
"He is not the only soldier critical of the war.
Bush isn’t ordering soldiers to be killed because they don’t agree with him on the war idiots.
Comment by Flaco"
Pat Tillman was famous and that's what made the difference. He was a famous sports star and people listen to sports star for some strange reason. He had begun speaking out against the Iraq war and Bush was afraid that if that was allowed to happen, he might not be able to steal the 2004 election.
So, the difference between Pat Tillman being against the war and other soldiers being against the war is that Pat Tillman would have an audience for his views, whereas the average john doe soldier would not.
See what a little critical thinking can do for you Flaco the flake?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:13 pmThe day you pay for your filthy mouth and punk-ass attitude, you simpering, cowardly, traitorous, neocon, pig.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius —
That about sums it up nicely.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pmThank you, Marcus Aurelius.
So, Peepee - answer the question: Why the cover up?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pm"I’m sure Olberman will be ranting about it pretty soon. I’m hoping the Tillman story is simply too compelling for them to ignore."
He's already on it. He had quite a lengthly segment on last nights show and I'm sure he will have more tonight. It might even garner one of Keith's famous "Edward R. Murrow" moments.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pmBush is not hiding anything idiots.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pmThe truth will be revealed by the investigation.
Bush was not there when it happened idiot.
omment by trueblue — July 27, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
My pleasure.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pmThe fact that the right wing is in here, telling us to ignore the Tilman death, is more than enough reason to investigate it.
Not to mention more than enough reason to know they are the bad guys, because only a worm would argue against investigating the death of an actual US Hero.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pmThey are as evil as any terrorist ever was.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Once you figure out that "terrorists in a cave" couldn't get thru Pentagon Defense System and Norad with 75% accuracy, without help, then you will know that they are the terrorist.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pmBush was not there when it happened idiot.
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
Now you've gone and started another rumor.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:16 pm"He was a victim of friendly-fire, he isn’t the first and he won’t be the last.
Comment by Mr. President"
You're quite right Mr. Pee. The guy who killed him was pretty friendly with Pat since he was almost close enough to kiss him when he killed him.
Another odd thing about the Pat Tillman story is that they never said who killed him. I'm fairly sure that forensic specialists could have figured out whose gun it was that the bullets came from.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:17 pmBush is not hiding anything idiots.
The truth will be revealed by the investigation.
Bush was not there when it happened idiot.
Comment by Flaco
Please explain the executive priviledge claim. Really, I want to know how EP applies to an investigation into the coverup of a suspicious death on the battlefield.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:17 pmHey Flaco the Flake:
You are avoiding me. Answer the question I asked in #67. Mr. Pee had the guts to answer even though his answer was rather dumb. Are you man enough to answer a simple question. If not, I guess we are going to have to start calling you Flacolia.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:18 pmSo, explain the EP.
Lots of guys have been tried and convicted for both murder, conspiracy to commit murder (before and after the fact), as well as the obvious obstruction of justice.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:18 pmBush is not hiding anything idiots.
Comment by Flaco
That is wrong. He is refusing to turn over documents relating to this case.
He may have a perfectly legitimate reason for doing so. But nonetheless he is hiding something.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:19 pmFlaco/Mr.P, I would hate to be you when the lights come on and you realize that you have been everything you have been hanging onto is false. It won't feel very good..
July 27th, 2007 at 8:20 pmVince Foster’s death
——————————
CLINTON KILLED VINCE FOSTER!!!!!!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
The neocon Cabal, at minimum, leveraged the death of a popular American military man for their own misbegotten political objectives. Thay may have had him killed - and you have the unmitigated gall to post this trash in response. You are a coward, a traitor, and a thug. I might just have to kick the ass of one of my neocon acquaintences, in your stead, you dispicable, cowardly, sub-human.
Someday, you’ll get what’s coming to you. I hope that when that day comes, this post is all you can think about.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Vince Foster’s death
——————————
CLINTON KILLED VINCE FOSTER!!!!!!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
The neocon Cabal, at minimum, leveraged the death of a popular American military man for their own misbegotten political objectives. Thay may have had him killed - and you have the unmitigated gall to post this trash in response. You are a coward, a traitor, and a thug. I might just have to kick the ass of one of my neocon acquaintences, in your stead, you dispicable, cowardly, sub-human.
Someday, you’ll get what’s coming to you. I hope that when that day comes, this post is all you can think about.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
—-
ok
Yeah, ok. Your day is coming.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
Yeah, ok. Your day is coming.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
—-
oh.
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
oh, yeah.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
The neocon Cabal, at minimum, leveraged the death of a popular American military man for their own misbegotten political objectives. Thay may have had him killed - and you have the unmitigated gall to post this trash in response. You are a coward, a traitor, and a thug. I might just have to kick the ass of one of my neocon acquaintences, in your stead, you dispicable, cowardly, sub-human.
Someday, you’ll get what’s coming to you. I hope that when that day comes, this post is all you can think about.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Yeah, ok. Your day is coming.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
oh, yeah.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
———
wait… what are we talking about again?
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
The day you pay for your filthy mouth and punk-ass attitude, you simpering, cowardly, traitorous, neocon, pig.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
----
July 27th, 2007 at 8:21 pmo right, i forgot.
Flaco,
You still have not provided a scenario that explains all the known facts in this case, including the claim of Executive Privilege.
Yes, this is all conjecture. That's what we do here. Why don't you conjecture as well.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pm#5 Comment by Rob Carpenter — July 27, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
...just as misleading as something you might see on DRUDGE! We need to do better than that! This sort of sleaze is beneath the high standards I’ve come to expect from Think Progress.
Anybody else notice this same statement on other threads? I certainly have. Sounds like a gimmick to make us believe that a "concerned librul" thinks TP is bad, and we should take umbrage at the remark because of that..
July 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pmConspiracy nuts sure do thrive in moonbat droppin’s here at Tabloid Progressive.
Comment by Flaco
Why won't you answer the question? Why the EP claim? How do you defend that? Conspiracies arise from coverups and specious claims of priviledge. It could all be investigated and the truth be know if the administration would allow all the evidence to be released to investigators. Why won't they?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pmBut Flaco, my friend, are we guilty of the promoting the same "conspiracy theories" regarding Vince Foster?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pmThe conspiracy is that some "cavemen savages" as you call them, were able to get past the most elaborate defense system in the world.
With Quadruple redundancy.
And how they could literally crash a plane the size of a 757 into the most well protected building in the world.
After several warnings from multiple sources.
That's the conspiracy theory, Flaco.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pmComment by Merlin — July 27, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
Who is Rob Carpenter? Anyone?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:23 pmWell, personal insults and name-hijacking...
we all know that means trolls win!
Nice work, Flaco!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pmFake Mr. President pretty obvious dude :(
July 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pmWhy are you afraid to answer the question that several of us have asked you, Flaco? Could it be because there is no sensible, logical, meaningful reason for them to claim EP? What do you think they are hiding?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pmFlaco: Did Clinton order the killing of Vince Foster? I need to know.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:24 pmthis post is name jacker
July 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pmThe good thing is, the country is watching, and reading, and learning.
The right wings message is getting through, loud and clear.
"Give us your brave sons and if we accidentally shoot one of them in the head 3 times and you want to know why, we'll just tell you to get f$#$#Ked."
July 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pmIt could all be investigated and the truth be know if the administration would allow all the evidence to be released to investigators. Why won’t they?
Comment by troqua — July 27, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
Some of it apparently went up in Flames. I suppose they could sift thru the ashes.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pmDon't tell me the lefties are cooking up yet another conspiracy.....
Flaco?
Mr. P?
What role did Halliburton have this time? Should I write my congressman for a case where justice is being served (generals demoted, corrections to reports made, etc.)?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pmthe next post is the psot following name jacker
July 27th, 2007 at 8:27 pmI know the real Mr. President.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:27 pmHe's cool!
I am Flacco. I still will not answer your questions about why bush is invoking EP regarding the Tillman death.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:28 pmMr. President I have to lock up here at the CIA.
See ya
No new top secret documents in the trash tonight! :)
July 27th, 2007 at 8:28 pmWell Howdy, CT!
HEYOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooOOo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:28 pmFlaco is now going to search the thread for namejackers because he cannot explain why his heroes choose to co-conspirators in the coverup of the death of Pat Tillman. Do all conservatives have this problem with focus? Or is it just a handy diversion when they got nothing...nothing at all.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:28 pmComplete derailing!
You know that means.
The trolls have lost!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pm284. is name jacker. I am name jacker
July 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pmSee later, Flaco!
Look for the secret Pat Tillman documents!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pmWhose three bullets? Whose gun? Enlisted or officier?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pmI know the real Mr. President.
He’s cool!
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
I'm sure you do, you both attend the same grade school.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pmEr, Officer.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pmComment by Egreggious — July 27, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
I don't think you quite understand the mission of The Troll (tm)
July 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pmOr, did Benedict Arnold order the killing of Jane McCrea? Why would anyone view such a thing as Pat Tillman's death in context of who did what in which presidency?
Pat Tillman is dead. Tillman's family was stonewalled, lied to, and the evidence is there are a good many unanswered questions. To exacerbate the entire issue out of any logical context, the dimwit orders documents hidden under some phony excuse. Who cares what the excuse is? Since when do we hide the reason a soldier is killed, particularly when the soldier is killed under circumstances such as this, from his family.
The entire story is one that writes an epatat for what this Nation has become as much as it does as to what became of Pat Tillman.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:31 pmMy wife is not the blowup kind, like yours is, TROS. :D
Comment by Jim — July 27, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
Then why do you treat her like a thing by announcing your plans for sex this evening?
July 27th, 2007 at 8:31 pm===========> CONSPIRACY
July 27th, 2007 at 8:32 pmNothing is hidden.
Truth will always comes out.
night Mr. President
July 27th, 2007 at 8:33 pmThe republicans promise blood. Our blood. The enemies blood.
Lots of blood.
War. Death. Trillions of dollars worth of debt and expenditure.
International hatred and disgust of Americans everywhere.
Little or no attention to disaster relief or prevention.
Damaged or destroyed international political relations with superpowers like China, Russia and even the EU.
Lies and secrecy from the government on everything. Cover ups and corruption . The politicalization of our Justice System.
These are the gifts of the RNC.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
July 27th, 2007 at 8:35 pmCONS
i
r
a
c
y............................................................
Jews... BushCo... Iraq... n.e.o.CONSpiracy..........................................
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
+ - + - + - + - + - + C + - + - + - + - + - +
July 27th, 2007 at 8:36 pm+ - + - + - + - + - + O + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + N + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + S + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + P + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + I + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + R + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + A + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + C + - + - + - + - + - +
+ - + - + - + - + - + Y + - + - + - + - + - +
Damn... I forgot a "P"
Nice work, CT!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:37 pmIts fitting that the republicans chose Red as their color.
Because a vote for the red party is a vote for blood.
Never ending blood.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:37 pmCONS
p
i
r
a
c
y……………………………………………………
Jews… Bush… Iraq… n.e.o.CONSpiracy……………………………………
July 27th, 2007 at 8:38 pmWhere are the answers?
Where are the leads?
Contact your congressman (blog, phone, letterhead, email, whatever)
I_T_S A [C] [O] [N] [S] [P] [I] [R] [A] [C] [Y]
July 27th, 2007 at 8:40 pmI gotta get back to work, CT. See ya!
July 27th, 2007 at 8:41 pmTROS is not gay. He’s bi. :D
Comment by Jimbo — July 27, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Definitely not Jimbo. Mr. P must realize that his name gets him ignored and/or despised.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:42 pmComment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
Later, Mr. Chief Troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
July 27th, 2007 at 8:42 pmThis must be a pretty threatening subject for all these obnoxious trolls to come out in full force like this and try to prevent people from talking about what happened to Pat Tillman, and talking about why Bush is trying so hard to obstruct finding out the facts.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:47 pmTime to go make dinner...
Trolls, the fact that you’re crapping all over a discussion on the murder of Pat Tillman with your absurd, childish posts says much more about your character then I’m sure you’d like to think.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 27, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Amen to that Col. These trolls have no respect for any human other than themselves. Neocon = sociopathic
July 27th, 2007 at 8:49 pmAnybody see this yet? (On voter suppression):
July 27th, 2007 at 8:50 pmhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072607A.shtml
it is obvious the Trolls do not give a damn about the troops, Pat Tillman, or the fact Bush is covering up a murder with the use of Executive Privilege.
The trolls have proven that is is they who are the true enemy of America and American values.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:51 pmThese trolls are not even worth the moisture to spit on them.
this would not be the first time bush folks set out to undercut a war hero: max cleland and john kerry come to mind right away.
not just war heroes but even civil service officers that need covert protection to do their jobs effectively.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:54 pmTe trolls smell blood - real human blood - and it scares them.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
Perhaps they should see their futures when the administration determines they are not carrying water fast enough.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:55 pmThats crazy; All these conspiracy theroists saying he was murdered and Bush has something to hide.
That reminds of my Later Mother repeatedly saying that Reagan was losing his mind (literally).
DJ
July 27th, 2007 at 9:02 pmAnybody else notice this same statement on other threads? I certainly have. Sounds like a gimmick to make us believe that a “concerned librul†thinks TP is bad, and we should take umbrage at the remark because of that..
Comment by Merlin — July 27, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
Yes I've noticed too. Concern trolls who are trying to keep TP legit by complaining about it.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pm#229 Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 27, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
You address these perverts as if they are normal, albeit misguided, Americans. They’re not normal and they’re not Americans.
There are many ways to skin a troll! This is a most effective way, though subtle, way of dealing with these pablum brained trolls. Reduce them to impotency wearing that deer in the headlight look.
I take another tack, but his approach is actually better than mine because they have no answer even knowing what he is doing. All they can do is change the subject or attack harmlessly.
Well done Col. Jack.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pmTP is cleaning up this thread.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:08 pm#229 Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
wait… what are we talking about again?
Here you go Mr Pee
HeYOOOoOOOOoOOOOoOOOOOoOOOO.
Glad to be of service. No need to thank me.
Boy the trolls are confused today! First, pablum for brains, now Mr. Pee
July 27th, 2007 at 9:11 pm“Mounting evidence that football star Pat Tillman, who famously gave up a high-paying pro career to sign up as an Army Ranger and fight Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, may have been assassinated in a high-level conspiracy to prevent him from returning to the US as a prominent war critic should make even hardened military people question orders from their commander in chief, particularly if those orders involve arresting or shooting American citizens. Tillman, it is now known, had turned strongly against the war in Iraq as early as late 2003, and was telling his platoon to vote against Bush. There are reports too that he was contacting war critics like Noam Chomsky from Afghanistan about coming out as a war critic in 2004–a prospect which must have terrified the war-mongers in the White House and Pentagon.â€
from:
July 27th, 2007 at 9:15 pmhttp://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/25158
He is not the only soldier critical of the war.
Bush isn’t ordering soldiers to be killed because they don’t agree with him on the war idiots.
Comment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
No, but he's one of the only soldiers I know of which the administration took advantage of for selling this war. If a hero like Pat Tillman, star football player, can give up his life and go fight for the U.S. of A. and the "war" on terror, then he'll be a great role model for Bush & Co. Tillman was high profile (hell, just look at the cover of Sports Illustrated above); just look at all the press he got when he left his football career, and the even greater attention he received when this American hero, this man who gave it all up, was killed by an enemy of the United States of America. Why, we might as well have had another skyscraper attacked by terrorists. This was the "sell" the Bush administration loved.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:29 pmComment by Flaco — July 27, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
-----------
Oh, and answer the damned question. Why is Bush hiding behind EP?
Oh yeah...that's right. You can't answer it. You have no curiosity...no concern. You don't want any answers. You want a president that has all power, one which no one in this country can stop. Let's just ignore the Tillman case and it will go away. Like that trash Britney Spears says, we should just all shut up and trust our president.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:33 pmUrr Guberment wouldn't do dat:
Just a Coincidence? Four of Jessica Lynch's Rescuers Have Died Mysteriously:
When the Department of Defense insisted on keeping up their official version of the rescue, inevitably some of Lynch's rescuers would be hushed.
Eerily enough, four of Pfc. Lynch's rescuers and colleagues have met an early demise:
Petty Officer First Class David M. Tapper died of wounds received in Afghanistan. He took part in the rescue.
Lance Cpl. Sok Khak Ung was killed in a drive-by shooting. He was also part of the rescue team.
Spc Josh Daniel Speer died when his car crashed into some trees for no apparent reason. He was part of the rescue team.
Kyle Edward Williams, who worked in the same company as Lynch, died of "suicide".
"A Tucson man was shot to death outside a West Side hotel Wednesday after breaking into a vehicle and being confronted by its owner, an Army soldier, who shot him in the back and fled, police said Friday".
The soldier, Spc. Kyle Edward Williams, 21, was found dead outside San Diego and officials believe he committed suicide with one of the seven firearms he had been carrying with him.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:36 pmIn that sense, this President, everyday, firms up his legacy as the worst Commander-in-Chief this nation has ever seen.
–Jon Soltz
That about sums it up, IMHO.
Why is this president invoking EP in this case?
(sorry, I haven't read any of the comments yet)
July 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pmTillman’s own brother Kevin, who was with him every day, says Pat despised and rejected the war in Iraq as unnecessary and brutal. Kevin wrote a public letter on 20 October 2006:
"Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world."
The Tillman brothers were due for a furlough, and Kevin stated in interviews that Pat had arranged to meet with an anti-war journalist while at home. We wonder if others might have known this.
As Pat’s outrage grew, he was reassigned before he could refuse to serve in Iraq.
It seems overwhelmingly likely that Tillman was not a victim of fratricide or “friendly fire†as it is euphemistically called, but was deliberately assassinated. Much of the daily killing is performed by “contractors†in Iraq. Tillman may not have been shot by anyone in the military. The Tillman “probable assassination†(our word) would have been temptingly easy, for instance for the CIA, which runs and hides secret prisons and torture camps, and creates false identities at will. It could have been carried out with the knowledge of a mere handful of persons above Army level, including as few as one assassin. It has been asserted that even now some of Tillman’s unit cannot be located for questioning. This would seem nearly impossible in an Army that maintains detailed personnel records, but likely if the CIA was involved. And we are told Pat’s personal diary was burned with his body armor- if this is true, we can only wonder what was in this diary.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:44 pmComment by . — July 27, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
Well said. It reflects what I have thought as well.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:52 pmRight now, I am of 78% sure that Pat Tillman's death was either an act of passion or a hit job, 12% sure that it was friendly fire and 10% unsure of any real reason. The reason for the 78% number is that Pat Tillman's clothing would only have to be burned if powder residue was still present. To crown that three rounds left but a minimun entry point. The range was most likely one to two meters with a ground fix of the shoulder.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:53 pmBush regime went easy on a Saudi bank that was and IS
FINANCING Al Queda...
Bush and Cheney are IMMORAL WAR CRIMINALS and TRAITORS to the USA
July 27th, 2007 at 9:53 pmI don't know, folks. Maybe we should cut Bush a little slack here.
I mean, just look at what we are dealing with.
We have an administration full of members who can't seem to get even the simplest story straight. I've never seen such a problem with memory since the days of Ronald Reagan.
For example, Gonzo says the meetings at the WH weren't about warrantless wiretapping, yet Mueller says they were.
Lurita Doan can only remember that there were cookies on the table.
Rove says he has access to "The Math" that tells him Repubs will keep the majority in Congress.
Bush says we should "stay the course" in Iraq at least 30 times, and this is documented on video, yet Tony Snow says the administration's plan for Iraq has never been about stay the course.
Bush says he never thought about dumping Rummy until after the 2006 election, and then said he had thought about it in Sept. '06.
Bush said we'll leave Iraq if the Iraqi government asks us to, and then the next day says only the generals on the ground in Iraq will decide when we leave Iraq.
Gonzo and Bush say there was never any disagreement in the administration over the legality of warrantless wiretapping, yet we recently learned there was.
Bush says he wants to wean the U.S. off of foreign oil within 10 years, and a few days later spokesmen for Bush tells us not to take him literally.
Bush says we don't get warrants for wiretapping domestic-international calls because there isn't enough time, but gets a warrant for domestic-domestic calls because, apparently, we have plenty of time.
And the list goes on.
I think, in reality, Bush isn't citing EP to cover up any scandal. He's citing it due to the sheer incompetence in his administration. He knows the bumbling idiots will sink him if this is investigated.
(a dash of sarcasm precedes this message)
July 27th, 2007 at 9:56 pmWhy is this president invoking EP in this case?
(sorry, I haven’t read any of the comments yet)
Comment by Zehava — July 27, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
After 303 comments, we can't get any of the Bush supporters to answer that question. It isn't for a lack of trying.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:01 pmAfter 303 comments, we can’t get any of the Bush supporters to answer that question. It isn’t for a lack of trying.
Comment by WC
They won't answer because they don't have a smug, flip answer to that one that derails the thread.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pmWC,
He should have stuck with baseball. He would have been held accountable.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pmAfter 303 comments, we can’t get any of the Bush supporters to answer that question. It isn’t for a lack of trying.
Comment by WC — July 27, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
July 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pm---------------------
What question?
why are you here?
July 27th, 2007 at 10:06 pmMr. President sez:
This question.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:08 pmCorrection:
For example, Gonzo says the meetings at the WH weren’t about warrantless wiretapping, yet Mueller says they were.
Ok, so the disagreement was about the meeting at Ashcroft's side at the hospital. Sorry.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:11 pmBush was not there when it happened idiot.
Comment by Flaco
OK. So, then HOW can he claim "executive privilege" if he WASN'T???
July 27th, 2007 at 10:13 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — July 27, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
Well, it would be rather presumptuous for anyone to offer an explanation to that question. Especially since the EP link in the article doesn't work.
I do, however, have a strong feeling that Noam Chomsky is irrelevant.
So, to repeat my response found at post #67,
I dunno.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:16 pmTillman was likely murdered because he held the opinion that the war was illegal. Some Neanderthals could not stomach his opinions, even though he had the courage and dignity of serving his country. He could just have basked in his glory of being a superb athlete. Instead he went to war.
I hope the military is tarnished forever for what they did to him.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:16 pmHi all. I haven't been in the mood for troll noise but I figured I would make a brief appearance. The story is most definitely out. Every American needs to show a little faith. If our worst suspicions are true? There is still hope for timely justice. And keep this in mind. There is no statute of limitations for murder charges and many venues can claim jurisdiction.
G'night
July 27th, 2007 at 10:18 pmAgain, it was reported TODAY that the Bush administration decided to be LENIENT with a Saudi Bank who was FINANCING Al Queda in Iraq.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/27/144210
More of Bush and Cheney's FRIENDS, no doubt---
The Saudis AND Al Queda...
July 27th, 2007 at 10:18 pmFrom crooksandliars.com:
Could al-Qaeda possibly have found a better publicist than President Bush?
At a South Carolina Air Force base yesterday, Bush mentioned al-Qaeda and bin Laden 118 times in 29 minutes...
Go Team Bush!
Hell yeah!
July 27th, 2007 at 10:18 pmWhat question?
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
Err...the string of words that precede the question mark in the comment by Zehava — July 27, 2007 @ 9:40 pm.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:21 pmI dunno.
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
in a nutshell.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:21 pmOops! I forgot. Those who willfully conceal the identity and actions of a convicted murderer are often proven to be accessories to the crime.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:21 pmCould al-Qaeda possibly have found a better publicist than President Bush?
Nope. Bush is the BEST friend Al Queda has.
And the Saudi FINANCIERS of the TERRORISTS:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/27/144210
July 27th, 2007 at 10:21 pmHi all. I haven’t been in the mood for troll noise but I figured I would make a brief appearance. The story is most definitely out. Every American needs to show a little faith. If our worst suspicions are true? There is still hope for timely justice. And keep this in mind. There is no statute of limitations for murder charges and many venues can claim jurisdiction.
G’night
Comment by pete — July 27, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
Thank you, Pete. G'night.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:23 pmAfter 303 comments, we can’t get any of the Bush supporters to answer that question. It isn’t for a lack of trying.
Comment by WC — July 27, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
Thanks, WC. I won't bother reading them. That frees up my evening a little more. :)
As far as I can tell, Bush simply CAN'T invoke EP in this case. Doing so casts a serious shadow....
July 27th, 2007 at 10:38 pmAs far as I can tell, Bush simply CAN’T invoke EP in this case. Doing so casts a serious shadow….
Comment by Zehava — July 27, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
NBC, the only network to cover this, didn't mention EP at all.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:40 pm"NBC, the only network to cover this, didn’t mention EP at all."
Comment by Egreggious — July 27, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
No, but I'll bet that they showed at least 10 ED commercials.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:00 pmI can only hope the Democrats listen to the moonbats on this site and propogate this garbage. I am so sick of the left's hatefulness.
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:00 pmNBC, the only network to cover this, didn’t mention EP at all.
Comment by Egreggious — July 27, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
here is a story from almost two weeks ago (link below contains MSNBC video) -
Legal expert 'baffled' why White House would invoke executive privilege in Tillman caseMonday July 16, 2007
Keith Olbermann reported Monday that the administration is facing two deadlines where the House of Representatives has called for officials to testify and the administration is invoking executive privilege. One has to do with the death in Afghanistan of former football star Pat Tillman, which the Pentagon used for propaganda purposes instead of acknowledging it was the result of friendly fire. (The other involves a subpoena to White House Counsel Harriet Miers over the US Attorney firings that Miers has refused to honor.)
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Law_scholar_baffled_by_Executive_Privilege_0716.html
July 27th, 2007 at 11:05 pm#325 - the right-wing-nuts wrote the book on hatefulness. Why don't you take your beloved president (and his father and mother as well) and move to Albany - I guess they actually like him there.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:08 pmHmmm
Let's see first it was combat death, then friendly fire at 2 football lengths now it is 30 feet cripes....and there was no comabt in that area.
A predator was to have been there then it was not hmmm giving directions to the shooter no doubt...
When Kevin Tillman testified and O'Neil it was stated on th record that Pat's head was blown off yet the MDs who examined him and realized something evil happened..well they may have seen something diffrent than Kevin was shown.
And the US Army Attorneys are part of the cover up, are they with Gonzo these day, they need to be indicted for obstruction of justice. The public has a right to know who the Army Attorneys are that did this they are not defense attorneys they are working for the taxpayers.
This reaks...
July 27th, 2007 at 11:14 pmI can only hope the Democrats listen to the moonbats on this site and propogate this garbage. I am so sick of the left’s hatefulness.
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
Comment by Enough Already — July 27, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
Oh, BS. Other than the Iraq war/"war on terror" and tax cuts, what has Bush done since 2001 that makes you think history will be "much kinder"? Name 14 things and describe how they make America, and Americans' lives, better.
You can also enlighten us by sharing your thoughts on why Bush is citing Executive Priviledge in the Tillman case. What do you think he is trying to cover up? We already know how inept the military is just by looking at what has transpired in the case thus far.
There is nothing hateful about wanting to know the truth. Apparently you don't give a damn about that. Don't you think the Tillman family deserves that?
Finally, I suggest you go read my post at 9:56 pm and then come back and discuss some of the things I bring up, and tell us how they make Bush such a prize for history. All of the things I bring up, by the way, can be documented. They aren't "made up" or someone's "opinion."
July 27th, 2007 at 11:14 pmFor anyone who calls themselves American, to not DEMAND from the WH the facts of the Tillman case and public hearings being reopened is NOT AMERICAN. The FACTS we ALREADY have, documentary evidence AND the doctor's reports show gross discrepency, it is UNAMERICAN, regardless of your party affiliation to not want ALL the facts exposed and the truth be given to the Tillman family. They deserve at LEAST that.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:15 pmYou slimy disgusting immoral people who would impune Tillman AFTER HIS DEATH WHILE ENGAGED IN PROTECTING YOU are worthless and do not deserve to call yourselves Americans.
Can't tell you many times stories, such as this one, started on the "moonbat cospiracy" sites like Prison Planet or Info Wars, in this case years ago, and have turned out to be true.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:18 pmThere is nothing can be done until we demand it. This means like 85% ?
July 27th, 2007 at 11:18 pmComment by Enough Already
--------
Your beloved president is good at blocking any oversight or investigations.
As you know, he personally blocked an investigation by a division of the DOJ into questions about improper actions by lawyers in regards to the warrantless wiretapping program. Why? Because the asshole lied when he said that lawyers in the administration fully supported the legality of the program. An investigation would have proven him a liar, but he didn't want that to happen. Nevertheless, we have learned the truth.
Bush wouldn't give security clearance to those who needed it to investigate. However, he had no problem providing clearance to civilians when he wanted to find out more info regarding who leaked the program's existence to the press.
This is the kind of shit you support.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:22 pmTim Griffin, the vote caging guru pal of Rove's, bragged in an email about the fact that the Media in the US didn't even pick up the story or evidence of his clear involvement. These slimebag criminals are committing these crimes with impunity!
July 27th, 2007 at 11:26 pmWe have GOT TO get to the bottom of this, demand testimony and evidence from our now corrupt Voter division of the DOJ and connect all the dots with the Diebold fraud and Smartech crimes with the USA firings and the hack hiring and politization of the Voter division before the upcoming election!
If we don't have a legitimate vote, WE ARE NO LONGER A DEMOCRACY.
People have to start writing all the MSM outlets and DEMAND that they cover these stories!
I'm outta here. Will check in sometime tomorrow.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:27 pmWho cares how history treats George Bush, what about NOW. HIStory is not gonna bring back the thousands that have died at the hands of his and his cronies incompetence. HIStory is not gonna restore the confidence that we once had. Why should I have to wait for some apologist to write HIS story when I can tell the MY story right now.
NOONE will be calling George Bush a great president tomorrow or ever.
Deal with the now.
And if the media even did 1/10 of the job that its suppose to do, all of you enablers, apologist,and armageddonist would have jumped off the train wreck a long time ago.
There is NO defending a person who would withold the TRUTH of how a loved one died, no matter how hurtful it is there is just no defending that, and HIStory is gonna say just that.
RIP
July 27th, 2007 at 11:39 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
Funny how a soldier gets MURDERED by his OWN TROOPS and YOUR "president" declares "executive privilege" concerning the DEATH.
And Bush Sr. pardoned INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST Orlando Bosch, as well as the Iran/Contra TRAITORS who now work in his son's cabal.
What a TRAITOR.
Just like his SON...
July 27th, 2007 at 11:39 pmThe average life of a democracy is 300 years. Bush has shortened the life of this one.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:50 pmI can only hope the Democrats listen to the moonbats on this site and propogate this garbage. I am so sick of the left’s hatefulness.
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
Comment by Enough Already — July 27, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
You have to be kidding!!!??? GHW Bush, the invader of Panama that murdered 3000 innocents to get one drug dealer? Pardoning the whole Iran-Contra crew? False incubator story to kill a few hundred thousand Iraqis, many innocents? I sometimes whether people like this are just satirists, taking the role of the psycho, in a theater of the absurd fashion (I have done it on Right Wing Blogs), or are simply insane.
Too bad history is out in the internet and the people, and not being written by corportists. In the past, books and the written word was always taken down by the elite. No more. History will piss on the graves of the Bushes.
July 27th, 2007 at 11:59 pmI can only hope the Democrats listen to the moonbats on this site and propogate this garbage. I am so sick of the left’s hatefulness.
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
Comment by Enough Already — July 27, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
yeah! the best he can.
sorry little thing, that's not good enough.
i'm doing the best i can... unreal.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:07 amEnough Already... yes.
enough.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:10 amObstruction of justice in a possible murder investigation. Sounds like an impeacheable offence to me. Let's get going now!
July 28th, 2007 at 12:39 amLeave him alone "he is doing the best he can." HA, that's funny. I suppose he is doing the best a moron can do. I am just so sad that the other morons have banned together to defend him. How can anyone support this corrupt administration? How can anyone condone the destruction of our rebublic and the underming of our constitution? Unreal.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:46 am3 tightly cropped rounds in the forehead.
Fired from 10 yards away.
And they call it friendly fire.
:|
Nothing "friendly" about it.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:05 amThink about it.
3, tightly cropped rounds, in the FOREHEAD.
Not the BACK of the head. The FORE-head.
That means he was FACING them.
In broad daylight.
10 yards away.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:05 amAnd the Military covered up the medical examiners report, and lied, stating he was shot from 150 yards away.
Oh but theres no reason to be suspicious, right?
July 28th, 2007 at 1:07 amShot in the face? Executive privilege? Only points to one person, yes?
July 28th, 2007 at 1:10 amBARTLEBEE > 3 rounds to the forehead is what you see in movies with mobsters killing people. It appears that Tillman was executed as he faced his killer. The assassin just walked up to him and shot him from a couple yards away. It was cold-blooded murder and most likely ordered to be done.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:22 amI thought thats what I just said Jay.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:25 amImagine the scenario: Tillman yells to the other soldiers that he is fellow American. The soldiers walk up to him and Pat says hello. The assassin probably says > I have been ordered to kill you. Pat stares back and then is shot in the forehead. Then the hit team cleans up the site, takes off Pat's clothes to burn them, and contacts team leader the target is dead.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:28 amBARTLEBEE > It was a hit team > the entire group was involved and reason why nothing has been done to them. If Congress does not see this as an assassination, then I give up.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:32 amYea, the burning the clothes part pretty much drove the final nail in the coffin of that case.
It doesn't take Matlock to figure out Tillman was silenced by someone in power do to his outspoken opposition to Bush's strategies.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:37 amA few on here have said the newest version of the M-16 has a switch to fire 3 rounds in unison, so that probably accounts for the 3 bullet holes close together in his forehead, but also denotes a close in shot to his face. The hit team had to make sure he died fast, so blew his head off. Most likely the top and back of his head exploded.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:46 amThats more information that I needed.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:50 am"What question?
Comment by Mr. President — July 27, 2007 @ 10:03 pm"
The question you answered in #67. You know Mr. Pee, I'm getting worried about you. You are starting to sound more and more like Ronald Regan every day and we all know he was suffering from Alzheimer's while he was President. Maybe that's the President you are pretending to be.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:51 am"BARTLEBEE > It was a hit team > the entire group was involved and reason why nothing has been done to them. If Congress does not see this as an assassination, then I give up."
Does anyone besides me find it odd that the person who did the shooting was never identified. I'm quite sure forensic experts could have figured out what gun the bullets came from.
Too many things just do'n' add up here.
July 28th, 2007 at 1:58 ambilbobaggins > the hit-team probably buried the murder weapon somewhere out in the desert. That would prevent any of their other M-16s being confirmed as murder weapon, but a real investigator would get suspicious about that too. It's obvious the Pentagon wanted no real investigation. The hit-team altered the crime scene anyways.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:09 amWhile Congress was passing minimum wage, Bush was inking this little beauty into law.
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004. I hereby order:
Section 1. (a) Except to the extent provided in section 203(b)(1), (3), and (4) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(1), (3), and (4)), or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted prior to the date of this order, all property and interests in property of the following persons, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons, are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in: any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense,
(i) to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of:
(A) threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq; or
(B) undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people;
(ii) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support for, or goods or services in support of, such an act or acts of violence or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or
(iii) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order.
(b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section include, but are not limited to, (i) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order, and (ii) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.
Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
Sec. 3. For purposes of this order:
(a) the term "person" means an individual or entity;
(b) the term "entity" means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and
(c) the term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:11 amActually strange that a Russian gun was not used to do the deed. The Taliban use old Russian weapons, so perhaps the hit-team goofed up.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:14 amPat Tilman spoke out against Iraq, and he's dead now.
Bush just wrote a law 10 days ago that pretty much gives him the right to seize anyone in heres property, including ThinkProgress management and staff, and all their equipment.
The law says acts of violence but it leaves a lot of leeway for "suspected" acts or even "indirect support". Did anyone see this?
Here's the actual executive order from the White House website.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html
July 28th, 2007 at 2:16 amJessica Lynch is pissed that her bullshit story no longer draws attention.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:18 amBARTLEBEE > yes I heard about that, but that executive order does not take effect till near the end of August. 30 days to take effect, but Bush better think hard before he does it to anybody.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:20 amIf another 911 happens, Bush can institute Martial Law and arrest us all.
Thats what his new "executive order" states and congress isn't even looking at it.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:24 amThis one kind of gets your attention, doesn't it?
Where was the news on this? Where was congress? Did TP do a story on it that I missed?
Who the hell let this one slip in the back door.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel like a turkey being fattened up for the kill.
It would be very advantageous for the Bush administration right now, if another 911 were to occur. And thats bad for us. Real bad.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:29 amAnd by the way, I see nothing in that order stating it is not in effect as of July 17th, the date it was issued.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:31 amEvery blogger needs to read that "executive order".
July 28th, 2007 at 2:37 amYeah, Bartles, I read it. It pretty much is a blank check, as it is in the opinion of the executive as to what aiding terrerists means.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:43 amScary shit.
Gives me goosebumps.
July 28th, 2007 at 2:44 amBARTLEBEE, have you checked out this guy's blog? He has something to say about it you might be interested in.
July 28th, 2007 at 3:11 amTillman was killed because he was tipping off the Taliban and Al-Qaeda to troop positions.
July 28th, 2007 at 4:06 amHe was a traitor and deserved his death!
Mr. President
July 28th, 2007 at 4:07 amPat Tillman was an outspoken atheist. How much you want to wager that one of his good Christian comrades offed him for the Lord? Anyone? Considering the rise of evangelicals within the ranks, it comes as no surprise.
July 28th, 2007 at 4:18 amShlomo, dude that seems too outlandish, even for Christian Fundies.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:32 am#339 Comment by Enough Already — July 27, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
... I am so sick...
I'm glad you realize how sick you are.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:57 amLet's fix that shall we:
Fixed!
And kudos to the other gentleman who suggested the people who run ThinkProgress could have their property seized because they somehow support terrorist attacks in Iraq.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:30 amI am sure they are happy to have you posting here.
"Actually strange that a Russian gun was not used to do the deed. The Taliban use old Russian weapons, so perhaps the hit-team goofed up.
Comment by Jay Randal — July 28, 2007 @ 2:14 am"
And there we have it. If this were some sort of ordered hit, it would have been easy to come up with a more convincing set of circumstances for the "cover up".
It would be pretty elementary stuff to use a seized enemy weapon if one wanted to make it look like enemy fire. If I can go down to the local pawn shop and buy a Russian AK, don't you think our government could come up with one?
It would have also been just as easy to simply have Tillman be "MIA" and still not be found.
All this crap about "cover up" is just that, crap. Perhaps George Bush simply feels this is a personal issue that should be between Tillman's family and the military, not some public soap-opera to be played out on the world stage.
I was wondering how long it would take to put all blame squarely on "BushCo"...it only took 38 posts:
"Rove ordered the murder.
Rove directed the spin.
Rove ran the coverup.
Prove me wrong.
Comment by ace — July 27, 2007 @ 6:34 pm"
The only thing missing here was Cheney doing the shooting and Bush handing him the loaded gun.
I applaud those who tactfully confronted ace on this one.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:59 am"While Congress was passing minimum wage, Bush was inking this little beauty into law."
#358 - BARTLEBEE - I read somewhere, maybe here, that Congress can nullify Executive Orders. If that's so, then why is Congress silent on this?
July 28th, 2007 at 10:15 amWell, I went to Wikipedia and looked up Executive Order. So I have the answer to my question.
"Congress may overturn an executive order by passing legislation in conflict with it or by refusing to approve funding to enforce it. In the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order."
I expect that they would have a hard time getting the super-majority so they are leaving it alone. I do think, though, if he has the nerve to try to enforce this Executive Order, the courts will slap him down really quickly.
Here's where the courts have already chimed in on this:
"Until the 1950s, there were no rules or guidelines outlining what the president could or could not do through an executive order. However, the Supreme Court ruled in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 US 579 (1952) that Executive Order 10340 from President Harry S. Truman placing all steel mills in the country under federal control was invalid because it attempted to make law, rather than clarify or act to further a law put forth by the Congress or the Constitution. Presidents since this decision have generally been careful to cite which specific laws they are acting under when issuing new executive orders."
Apparently an Executive Order is supposed to "clarify or act to further a law put forth by Congress or the Constitution". I don't see where this Executive Order does this. This Executive Order seems to be relying on prior Executive Orders for the "law".
George Bush thinks he is a law unto himself. Here's one of the criticisms that legal scholars have with the Executive Order. I think it fits perfectly with George Bush and what he has been doing for the last 6 1/2 years:
July 28th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Why is Bush hiding behind executive privilege?
Because he can! Because he's the Decider. Because Congress and the Court can go Cheney themselves that's why.
I'm not being funny. I truly believe he's at the stage where he believes he can do whatever he wants. Regardless of how you voted, what party you represent or prefer, it's up to every American to recognize when the President is out of control, believes he's a king, is unfit for the job, and to Impeach. Every day these clowns are in office we are all put at increased risk from natural disasters to infrastructure breakdown, to terrorists.
Tillman is a perfect example, as good as Katrina, that they simply don't care about Americans. Either you're in the Loyal Bushie fan club or you're against them.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:35 amFixed!
And kudos to the other gentleman who suggested the people who run ThinkProgress could have their property seized because they somehow support terrorist attacks in Iraq.
I am sure they are happy to have you posting here.
Comment by Lying Trickster July 28, 2007 @ 8:30 am
As I am sure TP is happy to have morons like yourself posting here, who don't know how to read.
The executive order does not say just that. The executive order is broad and generalized, and makes room for arrests of practically anyone.
Go back to school mook.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:40 amComment by BARTLEBEE #360
...in attempting to find a "silver lining" in this dark cloud...
...couldn't "waste, fraud and abuse" by major U.S. corporations...
...of U.S. taxpayer sponsored...
...reconstruction and "private security contractor" funding...
...be considered as...
..."undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people,"...?
...and if so...
...won't this give the new Democratic administration the tools they need...
...to confiscate the assets and properties of Halliburton/KBR, Blackwater, Bechtel and Bush and Cheney war profiteers club of DUHmerikkka?
July 28th, 2007 at 11:07 am>Does anyone besides me find it odd that
>the person who did the shooting was
> never identified.
sounds like it was probably this guy: Spc. Bryan O'Neal
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3958728.html
(someone look him up see if you can find anything)
' It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."
July 28th, 2007 at 11:14 am'
George W. Bush is my President. He is doing the best he can. History will be much kinder to him than the anti-American media has. Just like his father. What a wonderful man.
Comment by Enough Already #339
Anyone who knows inbred TRAITORS like this pathetic demon Enough Already...
...should do the country a favor...
...and make its existence...
...as miserable as...
...its gods- Bushiva and L'il Dick...
...has made ours, the Afghans, Palestinians and the Iraqis...
...excrement like Enough Already should be flushed...
July 28th, 2007 at 11:14 amEither you’re in the Loyal Bushie fan club or you’re against them.
Comment by ScrewBush — July 28, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Then I'm against them, and proud of it!
July 28th, 2007 at 11:23 amYea Big Papa, but we don't want the executive with that kind of unchecked authority, whether republican or democrat. Our government exists with checks and balances and we need to maintain them. The right wing has for years wanted to pump the executive up to the status of a caesar, and have him rule over the courts and the senate with an iron fist, which is of course, another form of government than what America has been for the last 2 centuries.
July 28th, 2007 at 11:55 amThe Congress is supposed to hold hearings on Tillman's murder, this next week, so I hope they ask important questions and not act stupid about it.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:05 pmHow about those new billboard Marine Corps. ads placed in various strategic locations around our cities, "We don't accept applications, only commitments." and with that message includes a picture of a hardcore squared away Marine?
For an affable young indecisive person, it might be enough to walk confidently into a local recruiters office. Wait a minute, Pat Tillman, was going to be that poster for the US Armed services one day, is it possible that Pat began to assert his personal unfavorable opinions about the war that influenced other Rangers or soldiers?
Pat walked away from a couple million dollar contract to join the Army, could others along the way in the military become covetous and accusations of arrogance and being a "hero" ? How much of an impact did Pat have while he was still alive in the Army? Is it possible that someone or group wanted to see Pat Tillman die?
These questions and others, I wonder. Now the straight answer recruiters and other military officials convey is a rather simple one, "War is ugly and tragic incidents happen. In war, friendly fire does occur and people die." Appears to make sense logically, and we know things do unfortunately happen, but what really happened to Pat Tillman? How long will the code of silence continue? Or Is the story that Pat Tillman's brother shared with a panel politicians months ago the whole truth or did the government disclose only part of the story or a fabricated story?
Pat Tillman's story was told only because of his visibility as a former NFL player with a multi-million dollar contract, he left behind. What about the story of the hundreds of other "Unknown" soldiers killed in similar ways or related and there families were lied to also. The government got caught with there fingers in the cookie jar this time, which leads me into thinking about the hundreds, if not thousands of cases within the last hundred years of war history.
This issue is not about whether I support the soldiers representing the USA in whatever conflict there Commander in Chief demands, but it is about principles. It's about what we the people can do to prevent these types of corrupt stories from happening and the consequences for those caught in the action of things. We know about this incident today, but where do we go from here? I am tired of hearing people complain about an existing problem within our government. Comment by Pall Stanley
July 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI know that this has been said many times before, especially since the 2006 elections. GWB is the worse President in the history of the United States. Even Nixon himself knew that the overwhelming majority of the American people had lost confidence in him. Nixon also seen the hand writing on the wall and came to terms that his own party no longer looked to him as an effective leader. Having said this we now come to GWB. The polls taken by liberal and consertative groups both show that he too has now matched the lack of confidence of the American people had for Nixon in August of 1974. But at least Nixon came to terms with that reality. GWB however appears not to understand that the great majority of the citizens of our great country no longer trust him nor believe him. This to me at least speaks of a person who is delusional and has dreadful secrets to keep from the American people.
July 29th, 2007 at 1:46 amThree 2 inch bullet holes fired into the head of this noble fallen soldier from 30 feet speaks loudly with such clarity that even a 5th grade elementry student would know that this death was a homicide. Yet the President refuses to release the information to the family. What does he have to hide? It is obvious that there is damaging evidence of a crime that is being covered up. This is typical of this administration. From the files guarded in the vice President's office, to the false and misleading statements of the Attroney General before the Senate, and now the refusal to let this family know how exactly what circumstances took place surrounding the death of their son.
I am a parent of two U.S. Soldiers. One is no longer in the Army due to injuries from an IED. My other son is currently on his fourth deployment. It scares me to no end when thinking they are serving under a commander and chief who seems to be a person who will not tell the truth and hide the same from the American people and specifically the families of our brave veterans of the U.S. military!
Next they need to investigate the deaths of Col. Ted Westhusing and Alyssa Peterson and any others with moral conscience.
July 29th, 2007 at 4:46 amWhich Col. Ted Westhusing would that be ?
The same one who showed signs of depression in the weeks before writing a note questioning what good was he to anyone in a war zone before being found with a bullet in his head from his own gun that was already investigated and found to be a suicide ?
I'm guessing you must mean someone else, because that one really ain't a big puzzle.
July 29th, 2007 at 5:01 amWhat you say is what had been reported - might even be true -although some of his family and friends do not believe he was a suicide (a month before his return home?). At any rate, my point was that any suspicious death in Iraq should be further investigated. And I think most reasonable Americans would consider Col. Westhusing's death a bit suspect.
July 29th, 2007 at 5:54 amYes and also only a few days after he sent them emails indicating he was depressed and saying he didn't think he would make it through the night.
What do you mean "further" investigated ?
July 29th, 2007 at 9:59 amDo you mean forever ?
Or just that after being investigated and coming to a pretty conclusive finding that all the evidence suggested was the cause.... that they should do this again, for no apparent reason or benefit, as though they do't have better things to do.
Would it surprise the 75% of Americans who agree that Bush's presidency is a failure that a desire to shut up Pat Tillman came from the top? Why would anyone be amazed if it is proved that Bush/Cheney were behind the killing? They and their entire grisly gang are criminals first and public officials last. What truly amazes me is that anybody in the contemporary political environment would join the military because it is noble and patriotic. These are words best reserved for a time long past. When you don the uniform today, your butt belongs to Uncle Same and
July 29th, 2007 at 4:58 pmif he wants you zapped for your political views...well, bye bye. What's the old Vietnam war jingle? "Don't take it personally, you are not a person."
Or just that after being investigated and coming to a pretty conclusive finding that all the evidence suggested was the cause…. that they should do this again, for no apparent reason or benefit, as though they do’t have better things to do.
Comment by Kilo — July 29, 2007 @ 9:59
I'm sure Pat's family is happy others looked deeper into his death and didn't accept the initial report of enemy fire as his cause of death. And I am also sure there are more questionable deaths that can be FURTHER investigated. Now, I'm done with you and your rose-colored glasses. Everything is not 'peachy' here, buddy. Wake up.
July 29th, 2007 at 6:33 pmMy son was also an Army Ranger in Afghanistan who was discharged in 2003 and went to college. He has now re-enlisted in the Army to become a helicopter pilot. I am appalled by the layers of secrets that the Tillmans have had to uncover and still do not know the truth of Pat Tillman's death. Those of us who are parents of soldiers must believe that the government will tell us the truth. It is terrifying even to watch the news when you have a son or daughter in harms way. I hoped at the time that I could count on Donald Rumsfeld and was dismayed to discover that I could not. I am from a family that has served in every war since WWI. We had had family members who were prisoners of war in WWII and my father, husband and son all earned combat infantrymans badges and my husband and son both received the bronze star for valor. We have given a lot. Please honor all of us with the truth about Pat Tillman
July 31st, 2007 at 4:32 pm