Climate change doubles hurricane numbers.
By on Jul 29th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Climate change doubles hurricane numbers.
New study released today finds that the “number of Atlantic hurricanes in an average season has doubled in the last century due in part to warmer seas and changing wind patterns caused by global warming.” Similarly, a recent assessment by the IPCC said it was “‘more likely than not’ that people also contribute to a trend of increasingly intense hurricanes.”
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So far this year there has been no canes, but could change for the worse in August or september.
July 29th, 2007 at 9:44 pm—————
Yawn. Does the propaganda ever end?
Isn’t it about time for the weekly ‘Bush approval hits record low’ post?
Once this Global Warming BS finally begins to subside, the next propaganda throw at us will be that we’re being invaded by aliens.
The people must always run to govt. for more and more help. Right?
The govt. has to continue to justify it’s existence.
Keep us scared. Keep us dependent on the govt.
Utter nonsense.
—————
July 29th, 2007 at 9:58 pmSo….since there are NO hurricanes this year the whacko environmentalists have to realease a bigus report blaming the non-existant hurricanes on “Global Warming”.
Face it loons.
The people are SICK of your scare tactics with so-called “Global Warming”.
Nice try thought.
Maybe it’s time to go back to Global COOLING….or maybe the Sun Blowing UP?
Pathetic loons.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:02 pmnerdo sez:
Apparently not, judging by your prompt appearance.
Kinda funny how Chimpy’s approval just keeps hitting record lows, isn’t it?
Isn’t it about time for the weekly “Congress’ approval hits record low” troll talking point? Funny how you jokers can’t seem to understand that the reason Congress’ approval is so low is because they’ve been too slow in relieving us of the national nightmare that is the Chimpy administration.
So, can you explain why virtually every climate scientist on the planet is complicit in your “BS”?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:06 pm“‘more likely than not’ that people also contribute to… intense hurricanes.†– - No doubt specific people, like Bill Clinton.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:08 pmNerdo and Cepan, we don’t expect your type, who don’t even accept evolution yet to understand global warming. Continue to do nothing regarding the environment, we don’t expect anything from your type. After all, you’re pro-war but are sitting at your keyboard and not fighting in Iraq.
Excuse those of us who are more scientifically savvy for getting it. WE understand the science and WE get it. Changes need to be made and sooner is better than later. We are going to make changes and all your whining and complaining isn’t going to change that.
Go read your bibles and leave technology to the grownups here. Run along now and go cash your oil industry funded troll checks because nobody here wants to listen to your stupidity.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:14 pmRight wing children: “We can’t hear you, we can ‘t hear you, we can’t hear you.” Hey guys, invest in coastal real estate if you think it’s BS.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:15 pmYawn. Does the propaganda ever end?
Isn’t it about time for the weekly ‘Bush approval hits record low’ post?
Once this Global Warming BS finally begins to subside, the next propaganda throw at us will be that we’re being invaded by aliens.
The people must always run to govt. for more and more help. Right?
The govt. has to continue to justify it’s existence.
Keep us scared. Keep us dependent on the govt.
Utter nonsense.
—————
Comment by nerdo — July 29, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
Keep us scared… you mean like the “Fort Dix Pizza Deliveryman Caper”, or Michael Chertoff’s gut feeling? That kind of scared?
Or is the kind of scared that sez “If libruls are in office, they’ll ban the Bible!”
Campaign literature mailed by the Republican National Committee warns voters in two states that the Bible will be prohibited and men will marry men if “liberals” win in November.
The New York Times reported that the mass mailing was sent to voters in Arkansas and West Virginia, and was part of a GOP effort to mobilize religious voters.
The literature shows a Bible with the word “BANNED” across it and a photo of a man, on his knees, placing a ring on the hand of another man with the word “ALLOWED.” The mailing tells West Virginians to “vote Republican to protect our families” and defeat the “liberal agenda.”
The Times said RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson had confirmed that the GOP had sent out the mailings.
The flier says Republicans have passed laws protecting life, support defining marriage as between a man and a woman and will nominate conservative judges who will “interpret the law and not legislate from the bench.”
“The liberal agenda includes removing ‘under God’ from the Pledge of Allegiance,” it says.
Just asking, nerdo.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:19 pmPathetic loons.
Comment by Cepan — July 29, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
Such nuanced political thought. So full of “facts” and insightful analysis. Must have been written by a professional…
July 29th, 2007 at 10:21 pmI remember back in ‘86 (’87?) there was a hurricane Gloria in our area.
I couldn’t believe there was one so far along in the season – - a “G” name?! I kept thinking.
20 years later the # of hurricanes blasted through the alphabet.
Something is seriously wrong here.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:22 pmThe poor trolls will continue to cling to the “No Global Warming” concept til their properties are either under water or they are shriveled up from heat. Either way, they will be holding on to the environmental Life Ring that is Mother Rover and “Never fear that is that we don’t tell youi to fear” mantra. Has worked so far for them!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:25 pm…Keep us scared… you mean like the “Fort Dix Pizza Deliveryman Caperâ€, or Michael Chertoff’s gut feeling? That kind of scared?
Or is the kind of scared that sez “If libruls are in office, they’ll ban the Bible!â€
The Republic of Stupidity —
Have you noticed the TV ads being put out lately, sponsered by the US Gov – “Where will you meet in case of an emergency?”
Scary.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:27 pmThe poor trolls will continue to cling to the “No Global Warming†concept til their properties are either under water or they are shriveled up from heat. Either way, they will be holding on to the environmental Life Ring that is Mother Rover and “Never fear that is that we don’t tell youi to fear†mantra. Has worked so far for them!
Comment by upside00 — July 29, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
These will be the same people blibbering and whining that no one ever told them famine was coming, and will want us to invade some country for it’s water.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:27 pmHave you noticed the TV ads being put out lately, sponsered by the US Gov – “Where will you meet in case of an emergency?â€
Scary.
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
My first thought: The Winchester. :D
July 29th, 2007 at 10:28 pmZoo-ster!
:)
How are you?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:28 pmTrue-ster!!
I’m great! How are you!
:D
July 29th, 2007 at 10:29 pmDo you have a gun?
Wait, you live in Idaho…………..
silly me……..
;)
July 29th, 2007 at 10:29 pmGee,
You answered quickly. Have you signed up for high speed?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:30 pmWhat is so sad is the lack of commitment that the Righties and the trolls have for their children and their grandchildren. They are like people that will put a gun to their kids’ heads and pull the trigger in a game of sick Russian Roulette; the just don’t really care about their kids’ future, they will just let them die in poverty and/or climactic holocaust.
Good to see you all haven’t changed your stripes in the past few years! Make sure you all explain that ot your kids and grandkids, OK?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:30 pmDo you have a gun?
Comment by trueblue
Actually, I don’t own a gun, but I could get one in a fast hurry. :)
I have a German Shepard.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:31 pmYou answered quickly. Have you signed up for high speed?
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Not yet. TP has been working really fast lately.
It’s about time!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:32 pmDon’t think Biscuit is as valuable as you German Shepard.
Maybe she can bite someone’s ankles?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:35 pmSo is this the new troll free thread?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:36 pmI love shane.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:37 pmMaybe she can bite someone’s ankles?
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
Always a valuable service. :)
July 29th, 2007 at 10:37 pmI love shane.
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Shane has been on fire lately, hasn’t she? I think being in SoCal right now agrees with her.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:38 pmI love shane.
Comment by Egreggious
WOW – what a triple-timer!
He was all over you, Zooey, then had a tryst with me, now it’s shane…..?
Haruumph!
;)
July 29th, 2007 at 10:39 pmComment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
Hey, trueblue! I think that Hurricane Gloria was in ‘85 or ‘86. I know that I was living on LI at the time, and was supposed to go to a wedding that weekend. I took a chance while the eye was passing over and tried to get off the island, but had to turn around–too many trees down, then hit impassible flooding. Nasty, nasty storm!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:39 pmI tire of my women very quickly.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:41 pmI love shane.
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
My, aren’t you fickle! :)
July 29th, 2007 at 10:41 pmHey, Jane, how are you doing, you pretty little thing?
July 29th, 2007 at 10:41 pmCue the ignoramus trolls who want proof that climate change is man made, therefore we shouldn’t do anything whatsoever to reduce our carbon footprints.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:42 pmHey, Jane, how are you doing, you pretty little thing?
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
Egg loves all the girls. He knows quality when he sees it. :-D
July 29th, 2007 at 10:43 pmEgregg, that you, or a name jacker??
July 29th, 2007 at 10:44 pmCool. Another global warming thread. Trolls always look their stupidest when trying to deny global warming and slander thousands of scientific experts. My favorite is when they start citing science fiction writer/nutjob Michael Chrichton.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:44 pmI’m feeling my oats today.
Nobody thinks I’m me, but I am.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pmJane,
I remember that I taped the windows then watched some great movies while getting drunk during that storm!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pmMy favorite is when they start citing science fiction writer/nutjob Michael Chrichton.
Comment by VerbalKint — July 29, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
But Jurassic Park was real!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:48 pmI’m feeling my oats today.
Nobody thinks I’m me, but I am.
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
Sleep deprivation?
Aching knees?
:-D
July 29th, 2007 at 10:49 pmYou are kind, Zooey.
I was thinking in a very different vein
July 29th, 2007 at 10:51 pmOK,
That was rude.
Perhaps I should just go to sleep……
July 29th, 2007 at 10:51 pmAching knees?
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
Catering is tough work.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:52 pmYou are kind, Zooey.
I was thinking in a very different vein
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
Once you’ve been to a cesspool party with Egg, you realize what a great guy he is. :)
July 29th, 2007 at 10:53 pmOh, Egg, you sweet-talker you!
Trueblue, at least you got to watch movies–my power was out for 2-3 days. Gave me a good excuse to eat (and drink) out at my favorite local restaurant/bar (had their own generator)!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:53 pmDude. You are so cool, nonchalant and self-confident, I want to be just like you when I grow up. What’s your stance on the GWOT? Are you going to take cate of all of the terrorists in the streets for us? We’d appreciate it – Y’know, taking care of our light work, and all.
Thanks.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:53 pmMy favorite is when trolls (especially the certifiable “Psycho-Christians”) ask for evidence of anything.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:53 pmCatering is tough work.
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
I’ve heard…
July 29th, 2007 at 10:54 pmWow! He’s speaking for “the people”. He must have quite a circle of friends.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:55 pmDude. You are so cool, nonchalant and self-confident, I want to be just like you when I grow up.
Comment by Marcus Aruelius — July 29, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
He may be surprised to find out he’s not quite as “cool” by the time he grows up.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:55 pmAnd we all know Bill Clinton single-handedly caused the Tsunami that killed 170,000 people. If there’s ever a problem, Clinton did it.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:57 pmThat was rude.
Perhaps I should just go to sleep……
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
No way!! You can sleep when you’re dead!
July 29th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI’m really enjoying my “Does anyone know…?” bit on the Rangel thread.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:58 pmYou are funny, Zooey.
I meant that perhaps I insulted or was rude, and that I should take myself out before I really get going….
July 29th, 2007 at 11:00 pmSo far this year there has been no canes, but could change for the worse in August or september.
Comment by Jay Randal
Texas is a vitual rain forest, when it sprinkles it floods right now, we are saturated , have been for the last 2 months.
This time of year, we are usually dry and baking in the heat.
Its hitting us wave after wave off the gulf. The gulf waters are pretty warm this year. Pattern is weird this year.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:01 pmThese guys invest? Not a chance – they have no money. Nothing more stupid than a middle- or lower-class person supporting a political philosophy that benefits a group to which they don’t belong and to which they will never be admitted. Kinda’ like the guy whose great uncle’s, next door neighbor’s, ex-wife’s, college roommate knows Johnny Carson’s nephew. That guy is waaaaay cool.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:02 pmComment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
Keep it up, I’m finding it amusing! :D
July 29th, 2007 at 11:04 pmSame states where it’s seen as perfectly normal to marry your own sibling. Sheesh.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:04 pmI just caught a bit on the local weather a couple of nights ago about how much glaciers have decreased in size recently. I don’t remember exactly what was said, but I remember being absolutely dumbfounded at the magnitude of it. Me, who actually believes in global warming, I was dumbfounded.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:05 pmI meant that perhaps I insulted or was rude, and that I should take myself out before I really get going….
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
True,
It would be terribly rude, and I would totally offended, if you went to bed right now. :-)
July 29th, 2007 at 11:06 pmpete the TP prophet can tutor you on global scaring too…
July 29th, 2007 at 11:08 pmHey, let’s ignore the Flaco troll!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:09 pmWayne > it would take just a small hurricane this summer to flood Texas. I have been watching the water vapor loops for the Gulf and so far it’s not conducive for Tropical Storm development. I expect the first hurricane in mid August and exploding in September and October.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:09 pmHas anyone ever noticed that once one troll has been utterly discredited, another one magically appears in its place?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:10 pmIt would be terribly rude, and I would totally offended, if you went to bed right now. :-)
Comment by Zooey
….damn.
You know exactly what to do to keep me in subservient guilt mode!
Arrrrrggghhhhhh!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:10 pmYou know exactly what to do to keep me in subservient guilt mode!
Arrrrrggghhhhhh!
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
It’s a specialty of mine. :)
July 29th, 2007 at 11:12 pmFlaccid troll? I didn’t see any posts from any Flaccid troll.
Nope. Not a one.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:12 pmHey, let’s ignore the Flaco troll!
Comment by Zooey
Who??
July 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pmHas anyone ever noticed that once one troll has been utterly discredited, another one magically appears in its place?
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
We must be down to the 6th or 7th string by now….
July 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pmAnd the self loathing of the guilty shall drive them to persecute the innocent.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWho??
Comment by Wayne — July 29, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
Haven’t a clue…
July 29th, 2007 at 11:14 pmWTF is with these stupid trolls?
Why can’t they deal with a strong, independent woman?
It makes them look even more pathetic.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:15 pmWe must be down to the 6th or 7th string by now….
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
And these guys are the ‘62 Mets, so the first few strings are pretty bad to start with.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:15 pmComment by Skinner — July 29, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
No one cares, “Skinner”. Go away.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:15 pmI think he’s grabbed enough skin, TMM.
:P
July 29th, 2007 at 11:18 pmWTF is with these stupid trolls?
…
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
Limp dicks.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:18 pmThere sure are some pretty ladies here tonight.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:19 pmThank you, Egg.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:20 pmWhat about when Bill Clinton let 18 million Rwandans die because he couldn’t keep it in his pants?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:20 pm#80,
WTF???!!!?!?!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:21 pmAnd they shall roar, as beasts, at reason for they fear what they can not understand.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:22 pmWe must be down to the 6th or 7th string by now….
Comment by Zooey
Not even that good, These too stupid to even respond to right now.
Man, I remember when you could actually debate with someone with half a mind ( I mean trolls ).
July 29th, 2007 at 11:23 pmThe quality has dropped dramatically the further Bush sinks in popularity. IMHO
Thank you, Egg.
Comment by Martha Stewart — July 29, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Martha’s the prettiest.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:24 pm#80,
WTF???!!!?!?!
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
That’s gotta be a parody. :D
July 29th, 2007 at 11:24 pmMartha’s the prettiest.
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 11:24 pm
No, dear, you are.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:24 pmMan, I remember when you could actually debate with someone with half a mind ( I mean trolls ).
The quality has dropped dramatically the further Bush sinks in popularity. IMHO
Comment by Wayne — July 29, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Ahhhh, the good old days when we had fair quality trolls…..
July 29th, 2007 at 11:25 pmDo we really need parody trolls?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:25 pmNo, dear, you are.
Comment by Martha Stewart — July 29, 2007 @ 11:24 pm
Ever so kind of you, my dear.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:26 pmDo we really need parody trolls?
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
Were you around when Herman B. Hayes used to post comments here? He was the BEST!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:27 pm#80,
WTF???!!!?!?!
Comment by trueblue — July 29, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
That’s gotta be a parody. :D
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 11:24 pm
Nothing slips by Zooey. Damn!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:27 pmI missed Herman.
*crying jag*
July 29th, 2007 at 11:28 pmWhy should anyone (assuming they are over 5000′ elevation) give a shit?? Just a number on the world temp. scale!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:29 pmNothing slips by Zooey. Damn!
Comment by Troll Trollie Trollie Troll — July 29, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
I’m not sure if it was the 18 million Rwandans, or your moniker…. :D
July 29th, 2007 at 11:30 pmI missed Herman.
*crying jag*
Comment by Egreggious — July 29, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Awww, don’t cry Egg. You can go visit him:
http://cfav.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2007 at 11:31 pmGood evening all. I’m still trying to perfect my new method of “troll baiting”. It seems to be having some effect. I’ve already been labeled a prophet! Imagine that. Momma’s wicked baby boy is a prophet.
And they shall try to pass off their craftiness as intelligence.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:32 pmAwww, don’t cry Egg. You can go visit him:
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
Bookmarked!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:41 pmAs much as I support rolling back the green house gases like mad(You know, cleaner air!)… bringing up a report that says that in the 1900s hurricanes doubled…
What the hell are they comparing it to? Data starting being collected in 1885.
We only HAVE a century a data…
July 29th, 2007 at 11:48 pmActually, I don’t own a gun, but I could get one in a fast hurry. :)
I have a German Shepard.
Comment by Zooey — July 29, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Ever see the Farside cartoon years ago about the Dobie-o-matic?
Ths burglar is coming tru the window and he freezes in his tracks when he realizes “Larry had his Dobie-o-matic trained on him”, the D-o-matic being this weird slingshot contraption w/ a shoulderstock like a rifle and a crazed looking Dombermann sitting in the sling, ready to be launched at the burglar.
Sorry, couldn’t help it… it was the comment about not needing a gun when you have a German Shepard.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:48 pmWhile it doesn’t compare with the reliability of modern methods, there is anecdotal information on hurricanes going back to the discovery of the “New World”.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:53 pmThe quality has dropped dramatically the further Bush sinks in popularity. IMHO
Comment by Wayne — July 29, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Would you want to be associated w/ this mess?
“Conservatives Refuse To Appear On Fox News To Publicly Defend Gonzales” – a thread several ones below.
“Excuse me, but who is this ‘George Bush’ you’re referring to?”
I also like the way Repubs are starting to claim they’re “Independents” now too. Karl’s Permanent Republican Majority sure didn’t last long, huh?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:53 pm“Once this Global Warming BS finally begins to subside, the next propaganda throw at us will be that we’re being invaded by aliens.
Comment by nerdo — July 29, 2007 @ 9:58 pm”
Hey nerdo – are you willing to bet the future of your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren that you are right. Because if you are wrong, and nothing is done about Global Warming, these people will not have a future. Or, the future they have will be very different from life today, and not in a good way.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:54 pm“The people are SICK of your scare tactics with so-called “Global Warming†Comment by Cepan “
So Cepan, same question I asked nerdo in #102. Are you willing to bet your families future that you are right?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:57 pmSorry, couldn’t help it… it was the comment about not needing a gun when you have a German Shepard.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 29, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
I remember that one. :)
That’s the basic idea, although she’s a pussy cat. She’ll get barking and snarling if I want her to though!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:59 pmG’night all. The experiment is progressing nicely.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:01 amGoodnight, pete!
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 amWho you gonna trust? Trolls or the policy stance of the American Meteorological Society? For some odd reason, I’m going to go with the main scientific organization in the US that deals with questions about the weather.
Muckdog, Mr. P, etc., I’m still waiting for your list of scientific organizations that support your position. Do you want my list of 15 or so scientific organizations that support the consensus position one more time?
“Despite the uncertainties noted above, there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems, and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond. Focusing on the next 30 years, convergence among emission scenarios and model results suggest strongly that increasing air temperatures will reduce snowpack, shift snowmelt timing, reduce crop production and rangeland fertility, and cause continued melting of the ice caps and sea level rise. Important goals for future work include the need to understand the relation of climate at the state and regional level to the patterns of global climate and to reverse the decline in observational networks that are so critical to accurate climate monitoring and prediction.”
Link: http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2007climatechange.html
July 30th, 2007 at 1:20 amFrom the same link. This is basically the AMS restating what bilbobaggins was saying in his posts.
“Prudence dictates extreme care in managing our relationship with
the only planet known to be capable of sustaining human life.”
The trolls, of course, say that we should just ignore this. Are they f*cking nuts?
July 30th, 2007 at 1:27 amThe trolls, of course, say that we should just ignore this. Are they f*cking nuts?
Comment by Vinnie — July 30, 2007 @ 1:27 am
Yes, Vinnie, they are. They are impervious to logic and facts.
Good posts, BTW!
July 30th, 2007 at 1:40 amPM hails Bush’s leadership
GORDON Brown last night praised George Bush for leading the global war on terror — saying the world owed America a huge debt.
The Prime Minister vowed to take Winston Churchill’s lead and make Britain’s ties with America even stronger.
Mr Brown stunned critics by THANKING President Bush for the fight against Islamic extremism, and insisted the UK-US relationship will be his No1 foreign policy priority.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:44 amCool excellent news from Britain.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:50 amTP will hide this news from its regulars to keep them ignorant.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:51 amRight On 3DHS.
TP will always be a far leftwing echo chamber.
I hope Britian wakes up soon. They need strong leaders like they had in past times.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:58 amYawn. Does the propaganda ever end?
No shortage of BS in here.
TP is interesting because of the nutters here.
They think they represent 80-90% but its closer to 9-10% of the US think like these fruitcakes. But hey that’s what makes the US great.
The nutters here think Bush has them on some Rove
T H E
A R C H I T E C T
hit list
July 30th, 2007 at 2:08 amMr Brown stunned critics by THANKING President Bush for the fight against Islamic extremism, and insisted the UK-US relationship will be his No1 foreign policy priority.
Comment by Brassmask from 3DHS
Those two countries have made a wonderful at finding OBL. Heh.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:19 amJuan go back to Logo channel.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:12 amWe did not have weather satellites before 1970. Meaning we only have consistent and complete data for the last 37 years, if even that. This means inevitably that there were more hurricanes earlier in the 20th century that were never recorded. A study that doesn’t take this into account is simply fraudulent. Not to mention that so-called anthropogenic global warming didn’t suddenly start back up in 1995 – we’ve been increasingly churning out CO2 since the 1940s. Yet in the period 1980-1990, there were very few hurricanes.
How to explain that? Well, let’s just not and pretend we did. Works for Al Gore and the rest of the Church of AGW.
July 30th, 2007 at 5:18 amPeople who have internet connections and still think global warming is a left wing scare tactic are stupid.
They can post comments (like on this site) but can’t do a google on the subject they’re commenting about to validate their points.
If you really want the facts you might start here:
July 30th, 2007 at 6:03 amhttp://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html
Global warming is occurring. Of that there is no serious debate.
Is it man made? Very very serious, contentious debate.
The science is not settled by any means.
There is a lot of propaganda on both sides, and while the “weight of consensus” from politically motivated panels like the IPCC, tends to support the CO2/anthropogenic theory, this does not make it true.
Remember, the world has been through dark ages in the past where idiotic beliefs and superstitions replaced real science. The current state of panic and fear mongering on this issue is an incredible statement of the level to which our population has sunk in their critical thinking ability.
That is what truly scares me, not the threat of some imminent catastrophe that we probably couldn’t prevent now even if we killed every single human being on this planet and/or shut down every piece of industry we have.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:08 amJay Randal at one, Only two types of folks predict the weather, professionals and fools.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:08 amComment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 7:08 am
Exactly
The fear mongering from each party is designed to keep the sheeple from from the real action which is that we are becoming subjects of the state. We run into the arms of whichever side promises to act to keep our nighmares from becoming reality. Meanwhile both are building a fascist gov which will keep people in line while the corporations and the gov. become so powerful we will never know true liberty again.
I think it was Kennedy who during the GW concert actually told people they did not have to change their behavior to stop global warming just vote for the democrats. That outrageous statement really indicated the reality that this is a political tool of the dems and that they do not take global warming seriously.
If the people made changes it would place demands on the market which would respond to the demand. If that were to happen then the democrats would not have reason to make legislation intended to increase gov power. So it is in their interest that you not act other than to vote for Dems.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:19 amI’m certainly pleased to see that the growing body of scientific knowledge paints such noted climate experts as Senator James Inhofe novelist Michael Crichton and professional gasbag Rush Limbaugh, squarely in the corner where they belong. Unfortunately nitwits like those three and other followers of Bush’s mantra will never admit a mistake and will continue to spew 1/4 truths to the mindless who watch Faux News and believe all this drivel.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:20 amDreamCrusher
Except that hurricanes have always been news worthy events – and the US record tends to focus on Hurricanes that have struck the continental US.
IE: It doesn’t take a satelite to tell you if it rained yesterday. It just takes a reporter getting wet.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:50 amBen,
You create strawmen. While some trolls come here and act stupid. I have never met one who doubts that the earth has warmed but many who are not convinced that humans are responsible for that warming and more who are concerned that the solutions which the liberals would embrace would do more harm than good.
More importantly I have not met one liberal who has made any significant change in their lives to lower their own carbon footprint including my own father who is an environmental engineer with the DEP.
Actions speak louder than words. If you all want people to take you seriously than I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. Put up or shut up. The average Joe respects action not rhetoric.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:08 amTroll
So your own father, who you know to have the needed qualifications to be an authority on this issue, tells you that you are wrong and you still cling to your ideology? What, do you think your father is lying to you or something?
Anyway, it doesn’t really take all that much to reduce your carbon footprint: Solar power still means you get hot water, driving a Prius (or the new Lexus if you want to go for a status symbol) will still get you to work, and flourescent lightbulbs shine just the same as normal ones while using 80% less power. Chances are you haven’t noticed the lifestyle change because… It isn’t all that big a deal.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:26 amFlaco thinks that conservative Republican men that wear diapers and hire hookers are sane.
Speaking of nucking futs Flaco, how is that jar of Peter Pan holding up?
July 30th, 2007 at 9:41 amLa Cuckoo Rot Ya
They are sane. Legally anyway. The people who vote for them, those are the guys I have doubts about.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:47 amThe fact of the matter is the world is warming. We have been coming out of a cold spell for the last 13,ooo years. Their is rotting vegetation under the Artic. Hello.
Flaco thinks that deserts have always been there. That liberals from Berkley created dinosaur bones and buried them around the world,
Wooly mammoths basked in the warm tropical areas and went extinct because the world was growing colder.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:49 amMany people I know are making small changes in their lives to benefit the environment — just as Bruce Gorton says in #124.
btw, Scientists are studying Lake Superior for its changes in temperature. That’s Lake Gitcheegoomee from the song about the Edmond Fitzgerald.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:49 amThey are sane. Legally anyway. The people who vote for them, those are the guys I have doubts about.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
I’m not so sure. I think congress critters should have psychological evaluations before taking office.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:50 amBruce Gorton
The issue here is not actually the veracity or otherwise of scientific claims about anthropogenic global warming… the issue is wether or not nations will be allowed to conduct sovereign economic development.
It is interesting that in the midst of the greatest financial crash in known history, that is about to hit us all with full force, those same financial interests, like Hedge Fund (GIA) manager Al Gore, and the city of London/Wall St crowd that he represents suddenly has a rush of conscience about an “imminent catastrophe”.
I find it all the more ironic, that those “left wing” commentators who are so eager to see conspiracy under every grain of sand on our collective political beach, fail to understand that it cuts both ways – that BOTH parties are to a greater or lesser degree controlled by the same underlying economic interests.
On the GOP side you have total fascist totalitarian militarism, and on the Democratic side you have a corporate/socialst/statism. Under conditions of profound economic crisis, both systems will have the same effect, of killing people in equal measure either by attrition and technological apartheid, or by outright murder.
Pay your money and take your choice soldier…
July 30th, 2007 at 9:53 amGet this Flaco. Reverend Hagee, A Republican Conservative, says that Satan, the anti-christ, will be peaceful creature thats anti-war.
loonie tunes!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:01 amRAL
If you honestly feel that way, may I suggest you vote Green or Libertarian?
As to how much control the state should have over industry?
Legislation occurs when the private sector doesn’t deal with the problem itself, and if there is a problem it needs dealing with. This is why you have a FDA, why you have enviromental standards at all, and why it is illegal to use child labour in the US.
The issue with global warming is it has reached the point where the private sector has not chosen to do something about the problem and it needs solving.
The Democrats have not suggested state collectivisation (IE: Proposed Stalinist policies.) They have proposed public healthcare, which is common to most first world capitalist societies, but they have not suggest America collectivise its farms. Thus I do not see your point where you call the Democrats Stalinist.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:22 amThe issue here is not actually the veracity or otherwise of scientific claims about anthropogenic global warming… the issue is wether or not nations will be allowed to conduct sovereign economic development.
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 9:53 am
This is the stupidest talking point of all your anti-science talking points. Climate change will do more to hinder economic development than colonialism, debt slavery, the IMF, and the World Bank combined.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:25 am“On the GOP side you have total fascist totalitarian militarism, and on the Democratic side you have a corporate/socialst/statism. ”
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 9:53 am
This is a common troll tactic. Throw some words in their to make it sound like I’m really not associated with your standard right-wingers. You see how cool I am by putting down the GOP?
Your comment below shows your ignorance and that you’re nothing but a right-wing, oil company-loving global warming denier.
“Is it man made? Very very serious, contentious debate.”
“The science is not settled by any means.”
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 7:08 am
Not settled? Below are a list of scientific organizations that have taken the consensus position that global warming is not only real but that it is man-made. Let’s see your list of organizations that demonstrate “the science is not settled”. Also, are you going to tell us that the link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer is just a left-wing scare tactic?
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
Joint science academies’ statement 2005
American Meteorological Society
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Physics
The American Astronomical Society
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
Geological Society of America
American Association of State Climatologists
Australian Medical Association
American Chemical Society
American Quaternary Association
Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
July 30th, 2007 at 10:26 amNo scientific consensus? Maybe you’ve never read about the Oreskes study. Below is from Wikipedia.
—
A 2004 article by geologist and historian of science Naomi Oreskes summarized a study of the scientific literature on climate change.[8] The essay concluded that there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. The author analyzed 928 abstracts of papers from refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, listed with the keywords “global climate change”. Oreskes divided the abstracts into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. 75% of the abstracts were placed in the first three categories, thus either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, thus taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change; none of the abstracts disagreed with the consensus position, which the author found to be “remarkable”. It was also pointed out, “authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.”
July 30th, 2007 at 10:31 amBruce said:
1. The US population has increased by about 225M people since 1900.
2. Most storms and hurricanes do not hit the continental US.
These two facts should tell you that (a) we have many more people living on the coasts than we did and (b) even if we pretended that we had the same amount of people on the coasts to observe and record storms, not all storms would be observed since they never hit land.
“IE: It doesn’t take a satelite to tell you if it rained yesterday. It just takes a reporter getting wet.”
Ah, so hurricanes and storms that originated and dissipated out in the ocean, the reporters of the pre-television age were able to omnisciently record their occurrence?
The only way those types of storms were observed and recorded back in those days was if there was a ship out on the ocean that day which happened to record it. Not to mention that lowly populated areas might not have recorded storms that hit them. Not to mention that not all places had the equipment to measure that back then, either.
But hey, just keep pretending that we’ve had the same ability to record and observe storms the last 100 years. That’s the only hope you have to make your “science” make sense.
To hell with satellites! Bruce Gorton says we can observe and record weather just as well without them! Technology be damned!
Next you’ll be telling me that you can send a letter in the mail as quickly as you can send an e-mail.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:41 amDreamCrusher
Your coastal settlements were mostly there at the turn of 1900 (How many new coastal cities that are remarkably far from the others have you noted?) and the traditional trade routes ships follow happen to be the same routes favoured by hurricanes. (Blast that age of sail!)
Further, weather monitoring stations were prevelant during that era because sea captains point blank didn’t want to get caught by storms. Read some books of that era, storms at sea weren’t pleasant. People, in other words, made a plan which was later replaced by the superior weather system presented by satellites.
The old methods of noticing the weather however, were fairly reliable as to the weather happening, they just weren’t as useful on a predictive level.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:54 amVinnie
I am not going to spend the rest of my day educating you on the fact that consensus is not the same thing as reality. That is a purely sophistical argument, which even a little bit of honest self criticism would make pretty clear.
Most of the climate “science” that is ongoing today is government funded, and would not be funded unless the “scientists” who are doing that work specifically state that they are researching climate change. Furthermore, most of the “scientific studies” that present these rediclous disaster scenarios are based on statistical computer models that have been proven time and again to be incompetent.
Since when did science become about runing a monte-carlo simulation of millions of pseudo-random variables?
What I am merely pointing out is that since we have skewed our scientific and technological programmes away from pro-industrial policies, and towards utopian post-industrial ones, there is an inbuilt “greenie” bias in the scientific community, aswell as the population at large.
The private sector only ever acts in it’s own self interest and anyone who wants to tell you different obviously doesnt work in, or have an incling how the “private sector” really works.
p.s. I am neither a libertarian, nor a Green. I am an FDR democrat.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:19 amRAL
Most of the climate “science†that is ongoing today is government funded, and would not be funded unless the “scientists†who are doing that work specifically state that they are researching climate change.
Except that for the last six years Congress was controlled by the Republican party, which is hostile to the concept of global warming.
AKA: You’re an idiot.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:23 amBruce Gorton
Does the GOP fund the IPCC then, idiot?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 amRAL
The IPCC is funded by the UN, which itself is dominated by China, France, the UK, Russia and America. Several seperate countries in whose interest it would be to deny global warming. (China is building up its industry on the back of power supplied by its coal reserves, France is a major car producer, Russia is a major oil exporter, the UK and America both have huge oil interests.)
However they hired scientists to find the truth, not what is convenient but what is actually going on. They did so, and it is inconvenient.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:34 amRAL,
This is a standard global warming denier line that is absolutely ridiculous. You are basically stating that all of the scientists in all of the organizations that I listed are flat-out lying. That there are not at all objective and are simply adjusting the ‘green bias’ you talk about. (And, as noted, it would be the Bush administration that has allowed this bias to continue.) This argument would only work with some uneducated, Fox-watching fool like yourself who doesn’t understand and doesn’t trust science. Scientists are some of the most ethical people who simply work to find the truth. Your asserting that they are all a bunch of sell outs.
Again, the troll tries to paint himself as one of us (”an FDR democrat”). No, you are a right-wing global warming denier troll who has come to a progressive website to argue the same talking points that Rush Limbaugh would. You are making the same claims that Exxon-funded ’scientists’ are making.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:51 am“I am not going to spend the rest of my day educating you on the fact that consensus is not the same thing as reality.”
What this ideology allows people like RAL to do is choose whatever they want to believe and dismiss the scientific community altogether. I suppose the fact that there is scientific consensus on evolution, or on atomic theory, means nothing to RAL. No, these things are not reality, they are only scientific theories.
Again, do you want to believe the numerous scientific organizations I listed or do you want to trust a right-wing troll who insists their educated views are not ‘reality’?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:55 amVinnie
I am not going to respond to your remarks. You are clearly a small minded, nasty little individual who is not capable of carrying out a civilized debate without resorting to threats and intimidation (how typical of the “progressive” left).
July 30th, 2007 at 12:02 pmBruce Gorton
Well done. You correctly identified that the IPCC as a world government body, that is, ipso facto, political.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pm“Since when did science become about runing a monte-carlo simulation of millions of pseudo-random variables?”
Running simulations is a key aspect of the scientific methodology used today by practicing scientists. The fact that you don’t understand this really shows your ignorance.
“What I am merely pointing out is that since we have skewed our scientific and technological programmes away from pro-industrial policies, and towards utopian post-industrial ones, there is an inbuilt “greenie†bias in the scientific community, aswell as the population at large.”
Here’s the real kicker for these guys. They are tied to the current ‘pro-industrial’ (read Exxon-profit mongering) policies that we practice. It scares the hell out of them that in order to prosper on this planet we’re going to need to think and act differently. They do not want to give up the profligate lifestyle that is causing great damage to our planet. They want to make all of the short-term profits they can regardless of the problems that this leaves our children.
This is why the trolls come out in force whenever global warming is discussed.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pmVinnie
I am not going to respond to your remarks. You are clearly a small minded, nasty little individual who is not capable of carrying out a civilized debate without resorting to threats and intimidation (how typical of the “progressive†left).
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Please provide one example of where I threatened or intimidated you. If you haven’t noticed, this is an anonymous chat board. How in the world could I possibly threaten you?
My bet is you simply can’t adequately reply and are running back to Rush to get some more talking points.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:05 pmVinnie
The only person here exposing their ignorance is you.
Since I work in a high technology industry that employs exactly the kind of statistical modelling techniques that is at the core of most of today’s “climate science”, I think I might be allowed to, mostly humbly (unlike incompetent loudmouths such as yourself) express an opinion on the subject.
What are your credentials, apart from being an overheated, opinionated fool?
July 30th, 2007 at 12:07 pmWell done. You correctly identified that the IPCC as a world government body, that is, ipso facto, political.
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
I also identified the fact that its political bias would run in the exact opposite direction to its findings.
Hence, the evidence involved demonstrates that the situation is particularly dire.
Of course, as you are a conspiracy theorist who believes in the idea that ~evil~ scientists are out to rule the world by faking the weather, I am sure you will find some way around this.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:08 pmBruce Gorton
Incorrect. The UN is a world government body, whose intention is to impose world government.
i.e. no nation states
i.e. no sovereign economic policy
i.e. give up your economic policy to world government
i.e. carbon taxes
i.e. no nuclear power
July 30th, 2007 at 12:10 pmBruce Gorton
Incorrect. The UN is a world government body, whose intention is to impose world government.
i.e. no nation states
i.e. no sovereign economic policy
i.e. give up your economic policy to world government
i.e. carbon taxes
i.e. no nuclear power
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you yet more evidence of my theory that if you scratch the surface of any Rightwinger, you will find a conspiracy theorist.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:13 pmIncorrect. The UN is a world government body, whose intention is to impose world government.
i.e. no nation states
i.e. no sovereign economic policy
i.e. give up your economic policy to world government
i.e. carbon taxes
i.e. no nuclear power
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Oh noes! The UN gonna take mah guns away!
July 30th, 2007 at 12:14 pmSince I work in a high technology industry that employs exactly the kind of statistical modelling techniques that is at the core of most of today’s “climate scienceâ€, I think I might be allowed to, mostly humbly (unlike incompetent loudmouths such as yourself) express an opinion on the subject.
What are your credentials, apart from being an overheated, opinionated fool?
Comment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Maybe you should point out to your superiors that all of the modeling that they are doing is not scientific. I’m assuming that they put all of this money into it because they find some value in it. You’ve basicly made my point that this kind of research is valid and is being practiced by large corporations and by scientists.
For the record, I have two advanced degrees and actually was a simulation modeler for about five years. It was very early on in my career that I learned to spell ‘modeling’ correctly, something you obviously never learned.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:16 pmLadies and gentlemen, I give you yet more evidence of my theory that if you scratch the surface of any Rightwinger, you will find a conspiracy theorist.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — July 30, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Well put. Would an ‘FDR Democrat’ have this kind of an attitude towards the UN? I must admit I’m not familiar with FDR’s attitude on the UN.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:19 pmFor the record, I have two advanced degrees and actually was a simulation modeler for about five years. It was very early on in my career that I learned to spell ‘modeling’ correctly, something you obviously never learned.
Comment by Vinnie — July 30, 2007 @ 12:16 pm
OWNED
July 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pmBruce Gorton
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
Even when presented with the reality of the treaty agreements (Kyoto) that would guarantee the outcome that has been presented, the true “progressive democrat” still cannot see the reality that is right in front of his nose, and instead chooses to ignore said reality and bandy around rediculous and childish labels to avoid debate.
I suppose this is just another conspiracy theory?
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf
Read the section on Kyoto and let’s have a serious debate, not a slanging match.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pm#158 – That’s right people. If we conserve energy, drive more energy efficient cars and invest in research on alternative energy it will be the end of western civilization as we know it.
While I know it’s petty to point out spelling errors, I will note that you have spelled ‘ridiculous’ as ‘rediculous’ twice now. It hurts your credibility when you make errors that my 10 year old would make.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:27 pmRAL
And I am sure you think Clinton has magical teleporting powers that let him jump from plane to plane on 9/11 and drive them into the two towers while shouting “BJ Akbar!”
The UN couldn’t even stop the Rwandan genocide for crying out loud and you say this is the sinister bunch out to conquor the world?
July 30th, 2007 at 12:28 pmBTW, I just asked my 10 year old to spell ‘ridiculous’. He got it right. :)
July 30th, 2007 at 12:29 pmRAL also fails to realize that “models” based in the same formulas and computer algoritms are used also in other fields of the science and industry, as in design of cars and aircrafts, nuclear plants, refineries, and many many more. I didn’t know that my car or the planes I’ve traveled are product of a “random guessing”.
Hey, RAL, tell the philosophers, psycologues and mathematicians that are working (quite infructuously) in AI that you’ve found the answer to using “random algoritms” to create designs intelligently…
July 30th, 2007 at 12:38 pmOf course, while I may joke and be silly from time to time, we are indeed very interested in serious debate. Throwing up a link to a 70 page PDF file and claiming that it makes your point is not very productive nor convincing. Just for grins, I thought I would go to your link.
Just for grins, I briefly looked at your link. It talked a lot about forming an economic union with Canada and Mexico. I completly fail to see how this makes your point.
I did see one thing that interested me as the top point under what we need to do by 2010:
“Make a North American commitment to a cleaner environment.”
Please, tell us how what you’re advocating that will make that happen. I could go on and on with things that discuss this. In fact, go watch “An Inconvenient Truth” or visit Al Gore’s web site and you’ll hear a lot of suggestions on how to make this happen.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:45 pmHere’s another one:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/11/05/warm-refs.pdf;jsessionid=NMZ2POE3IGZTXQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0
By way of example of what I am talking about – I live in the UK. A former democracy, that is now in the advanced stages of being absorbed into the tower of babel called the EU.
Originally, the citizens of this country were told we were joining an “economic union”.
And now we find we are losing our sovereignty to supranational institutions that we did not ask for, or vote for, and certainly have no political influence over.
EU politicians now openly boast of the fact that they have created an Empire. Some even think this is a good thing, as a counterweight to US “Imperialism”.
When you have UN (or more probably Blackwater USA) troops on your streets (as you did in Katrina), stripping you of your freedoms, imposing their “economic union” and the economic/fiscal austerity that goes with the downshift in energy production that you morons are promoting with your wind/bio/renewables, don’t come bleating to me, because you were warned.
But then, this is all just a conspiracy theory. Go back to sleep and keep scaring your children with the wrong nightmares.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:13 pmO, yippee the BN bloody P is now on Think Progress.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:14 pmComment by RAL — July 30, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Oh, a british rightie that thinks that the UK is still an empire. Hear this: if it wasn’t for the EU economic help, your “empire” would be in tough economic shit. Yes, it is, you’ve received an enormous load of money from your long time hated “continentals” frenchies and fritzs, money that the UK still receives. Money that the UK uses to play bully in the world while being the poodle of the real bully. So you love your independence? That’s rich. The UK does nothing without Bush consent, and you must act tough with the rest of the countries of Europe to save your face.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:21 pmBruce Gorton
Have you been so brainwashed to believe that being anti-globalization is to be a racist/fascist/white supremacist nationalist?
Pretty amazing really. Once upon a time you Americans defeated an Empire, and today you are too stupid to see one being erected under your noses.
Perhaps you never really wanted to live in a Republic after all.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pmBruce,
I’m amazed that you insist on contending that satellites are essentially worthless in picking up more weather systems than the “technology” of ye olde times. Well, not really. What other choice do you have really? You can’t admit that you got roped into yet another propaganda piece masquerading as a science study.
Satellites never made a difference at all! Yeah! Clap louder!
Yes, there were storms back then, and yes, there were weather monitoring stations, and yes, people did record storms back then. Does that mean that satellites aren’t picking up more than they did? No, of course not. But you just can’t admit that, because then you’d have to admit that this study is a sham.
I hear Lewis and Clark were as good as Google Earth, too. Keep living the lie my friend. It’s all you’ve got. Poor thing.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:25 pmRAL
Ahem.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1947246,00.html
Some highlights:
Christopher Monckton, otherwise known as Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. He has a degree in classics and a diploma in journalism and, as far as I can tell, no further qualifications.
As to his talking about vikings in Greenland:
Anybody who has read any history on Eric the Red knows this one. It was what is operatively called a scam, Eric named the place Greenland so as to attract settlers to his barren little rock, and without constant supplies those settlers eventually died horrible deaths – they couldn’t even escape the Island because there wasn’t enough wood.
The current population of Greenland is due to a later group of settlers.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:26 pmAs to his talking about vikings in Greenland:
Anybody who has read any history on Eric the Red knows this one. It was what is operatively called a scam, Eric named the place Greenland so as to attract settlers to his barren little rock, and without constant supplies those settlers eventually died horrible deaths – they couldn’t even escape the Island because there wasn’t enough wood.
The current population of Greenland is due to a later group of settlers.
Is mine, not contained in the quote, it just didn’t close off for some reason.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:28 pmDreamCrusher
Yes, I am sure you are very surprised that when sailors met a hurricane they actually noticed without a satelite in view.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:30 pmYou are all fools. When we can go back one hundred million years and see all the “Actual” data that “Actually” occurred, I will choose what side to be on. It took millions of years for the Grand Canyon to become what it is today. Is it not possible that the earth is just going through a cycle, like it has for millions of years? Thirty years ago we were going through a cooling phase. Now were going through a warming phase. You can predict all you want, but it’s just a prediction!!! Why not keep it simple and use some common sense. I forget how old the earth is, but it’s a few hundred million years old, right? Come on Al Gore(inventor of the internet), please tell your flock that your full of sh*t, and get the flock out of here!!!
July 30th, 2007 at 1:31 pmEvil Spaniard
More labels. More hate. More idiocy.
In actual fact, the UK is still an Empire in some senses. It is a key player in the system called “globalization”, and the private military industrial complex which supports it.
Take a look at BAE systems for example. Propping up dictators like Pinochet.
I do not and will never be an Imperialist. I in fact detest all oppression and tyrannical systems of government.
I am pro-American. I am vehemently anti-Bush, anti-Cheney, and anti-GOP.
Being anti-global warming and anti-globalization does not make you a fascist.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:31 pmRAL
No, but citing a source whose chief academic qualifications are classics and journalism to counter sources who are actually specialists in fields relating to global warming does make you stupid.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:43 pmHurricanes and the number of them is the topic. Your computer models were wrong last year, way off. The computer models this year are way off. It proves that computer models can be, and are wrong. I live in hurricane land. I understand that water is wet and the sun is hot. When the brew is just right, you get nasty weather. When you realize the simplicity of things, which you don’t, you won’t sound so foolish. We have no clue as to why the earth does what it does. We pretend to, but we don’t. We need to stop sounding the panic alarm and be sensible. When the cooling period comes, will we blame ourselves for this as well?
July 30th, 2007 at 1:46 pmOh, yes, man can’t change the climate… doesn’t?
False. Just a practical example: London and its well known fog. You know, the fog that appears in every movie from Jack the Ripper and/or Sherlock Holmes. Well, it was human produced, and was human solved. But was solved only thanks to acts, and a policy from the government (the horrors!):
Through the 19th and in the early half of the 20th century, Londoners used coal for heating their homes, which produced large amounts of smoke. In combination with climatic conditions this often caused a characteristic smog, and London became known for its typical “London Fog”, also known as “Pea Soupers”. London was sometimes referred to as “The Smoke” because of this. In 1952 this culminated in the disastrous Great Smog of 1952 which lasted for five days and killed over 4,000 people. In response to this, the Clean Air Act 1956 was passed, mandating the creating of “smokeless zones” where the use of “smokeless” fuels was required (this was at a time when most households still used open fires); the Act was effective, though the nickname is still used sarcastically.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London#19th_century_London
July 30th, 2007 at 1:49 pmJohnny Swank
Frankly, we have several clues as to why the world is the way it is. We don’t know everything, but that doesn’t mean we know nothing.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:50 pmSee, that’s the whole point, smart ass. The sailors had to actually be in or near the storm to record it.
Does it really pain you that much to admit that, yes, in fact, there were a number of storms that went unrecorded back then?
I mean, it’s just pathetic. It’s like you’re part of a cult or something.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThe 2006 Atlantic hurricane season was an event in the annual cycle of tropical cyclone formation. This season was unusual in that no hurricanes made landfall in the United States of America.
2007 Atlantic hurricane season (active) First system1 formed: May 9, 2007
Active systems1: None
Total named storms: 2
Total hurricanes: 0
Major hurricanes (Cat. 3+): 0
Better crank up the SUV or 2006 and 2007 will bring down the average and make this post (and the global warming arguements) irrelavent.
Nice try, ThinkProgress.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:16 pmBruce Gorton
Yes, and promoting the views of the famous hypocrite, genocidalist hedge fund manager, and politician who has refused to debate Lord Monckton – who actually knows someting about the science (if you read his work, rather than pulling the usual “smear the messenger” tactic) – precisely because he knows less about the subject than his challenger does, makes you what?
Statistical models are not science, no matter how loudly you shout, and no matter how low your debate goes.
But then, popular opinion is as popular opinion does.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:57 pmCalifornia Bankruptcy Revealed as Economy Collapses
Increase DecreaseJuly 28, 2007 (LPAC) – The real problem for California is not with the 2007-08 budget — which appears to be hopelessly stalemated — but with the accelerating collapse of the state’s economy, spearheaded by the popping of the huge real estate bubble, which had been responsible for higher-than-forecast revenues for the last four years. These revenues are drying up. It is now expected that California will have at least a $5 billion deficit for the next fiscal year. Instead of addressing the underlying cause of this deficit – the collapse of the physical economy, which is gaining momentum – the Governor is pretending he is addressing it with this year’s budget cuts, while lunatic Republicans are demanding more cuts now, in anticipation of even more massive triage next year.
The latest economic reports, despite efforts at massaging by federal agencies in Washington, give some indication of the problem. Only 400 jobs were created in the state in June, with the housing slump largely responsible. Stephen Levy, senior economist for the Center for Continuing Study of the California Economy, said that the housing slowdown is “finally having an effect on the job numbers.” In June, jobs were lost in the financial sector – mortgage brokers, real estate agents, finance and credit professionals – as well as in construction, manufacturing and transportation. One prominent economist told EIR that there are “much more serious problems coming,” as the credit crunch is “just beginning to hit.” The only jobs being created are low-wage, in tourism and the service sector. “California has been living a charmed life. Those days are now over,” he added.
Meanwhile, the Governator has been busy hob-nobbing with Tony Blair, Nikolas Sarkozy and other world leaders, discussing how he will make California the model Green government in the world. He has been relying on the Democratic Party leaders in the Assembly and the Senate to push through his budget, which is draconian — though not enough for the Republicans — by promising them he will promote stronger “climate change” policies in the future. One leading Democrat, who has been following closely the LaRouche-led mobilization to get rid of VP Cheney, compared the lack of guts of Democratic elected officials in the state, who are doing Schwarzenegger’s dirty work, to those in the U.S. Congress, who are refusing to take on Pelosi to impeach Cheney. He called it a “spectacular epidemic of negative testicular fortitude.”
July 30th, 2007 at 4:17 pmRAL
Did you even read the link?
The Greenland debacle, used by your boy who has about as much training and knowledge on the subject as your average block of cheese, claimed that Greenland was proof that there was a warm period in the middle ages.
Greenland is referred to in a book called “History’s worst decisions” precisely because it wasn’t a green fertile paradise it was an icy, barren rock which Eric the Red named Greenland in the hopes of attracting settlers. Those settlers eventually died out because it wasn’t a green and pleasant land, it was an icy, cold hell.
Your guy claims that the Chinese sailed through the north pole in the middle ages – I would like to see some evidence of that because they would have left some artifacts behind wherever they landed.
I am not “Attacking the messenger,” because he isn’t acting as a messenger, the way Gore is (Gore in essence, is not reporting his findings he is reporting the findings of climate scientists. In other words he is not an authority on the subject, he is reporting on people who ARE.) I am attacking the originator’s authority.
He is reporting on his own findings, which as the article I linked to points out, are deeply flawed.
Further, I hope you have some evidence of Gore calling for genocide, or are you just another BNP member pulling things out of his backside?
July 31st, 2007 at 3:52 amBruce Gorton
The practical implications of Mr Gore’s policies is genocide by attrition. This is clear enough to anyone who actually bothers to watch the C4 documentary “The great global warming swindle”. By forcing developing countries to adapt to scarcity, and denying them access to high technology like nuclear power (another policy Gore supports), you are creating economic and social conditions of poverty and disease due to a lack of the basic economic infrastructure required to run a civilized, modern economy. But then, it is all too typical of the green lobby to ignore the consequences of your insance ideas and busy yourselves trying to rubbish and slander the careers and credibility of people who disagree with your pathetic, self righteous views.
If your “science” is so truthful, why did the IPCC see fit to manipulate the historical temperature record to remove the medieval warm period, when multiple, incontrevertible time series exist that prove the existence of said anonaly that destroys your hockey stick curve and the whole rediculous argument that goes with it.
And I would advise you not to call me a BNP member again. I know a thing or two about fascism that you clearly do not. For example, the Nazis were horticulturalists, romatics and anti-technology, zero growth fanatics, just like you greens.
Pot, kettle anyone?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:44 amBruce Gorton
Perhaps you would like to actually respond to the question that I posed by posting the story about the California budget crisis?
We might actually get somewhere and you might even learn something about what is really behind the enviromentalist agenda of that Nazi Arnold Swarzenegger.
I will give you a clue, it’s called Schatianism.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:48 amThe Profits of Starvation
Increase DecreaseJuly 30, 2007 (LPAC)– Archer Daniels Midland Co., the largest ethanol producer in the U.S., said its net income for the three months ending June 30, more than doubled. Although the cost (to them) for corn was higher, sales were more than enough to make up the difference. Corn processing operating profit fell 16%, but sales jumped 28% to $12.21 billion. Recently, company executives said they were preparing to enter the sugar-cane-ethanol business in Brazil. The company is exploring a variety of strategies, ranging from building sugar-cane mills and ethanol plants from the ground up to acquiring sugar-cane companies.
The push for ethanol, made by processing corn into a burnable fuel for autos, has caused a doubling of the price of corn in the last year, and made a major staple foodstuff unaffordable for many of the world’s poorest families. Justified as reducing the US dependence on foreign oil, and rationalized by legions of environmentally challenged individuals as an aid to ending the Iraq War, the ethanol program has thus traded one horseman of the Apocolypse: War, for another: Famine.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:30 amIf my response to that kak doesn’t post I will be most annoyed.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:58 amI am most annoyed.
Okay, a quick rundown for the lurkers who think that RAL is onto something:
Go read up on The Great Global Warming Swindle on wikipedia. In essence, it misrepresented its sources, purposefully used out of date data, and falsified graphs. It is about as factual as your average B movie.
As to maize prices: In actual fact it has a lot to do with weather conditions going funny in Southern Africa, which is both a maize exporting region, and a major maize consuming region. Basically. our farm production is down.
Further, speaking as an Africa, one thing which may allow Africa to rise out of the current state it is in, is via a relatively simply created fuel source which can grant some measure of stability to the local economy which is not present with oil.
Right now we are at the mercy of first world currency speculators because they really can sink our economies by making it more expensive for us to buy dollars, and hence oil.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:04 amas an African.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:06 amBruce Gorton
So your refutation of the facts, and firsthand statements of numerous scientists in the C4 doc is to quote wikipedia?
Who is the idiot now then?
p.s. Feel free to get a (slave labour) job with ADM, Cargill or any of the other food cartels. Speaking as an African, I would have thought you would understand this topic a bit better. My fiancee is from Zimbabwe and she seems to grasp the concept of economic colonialism pretty well.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:19 amhttp://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2006/Update55.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/china/article1917927.ece
Is there anything you idiot global warmers won’t blame on the weather?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:30 amRAL
I actually originally posted the statements of scientists who had been misquoted in the documentary you so trust. Wikipedia has the same information, which is to say it is general flipping knowledge you twit.
Heck here is an example of one of the scientists used as sources in the documentary:
Carl Wunsch: “I’m somewhat troubled that TV companies around the world are treating it as though this were a science documentary. It’s not. It’s a tendentious political propaganda piece… It’s not a science film at all. It’s a political statement.”
Lockwood commented on the BBC:
All the graphs they showed stopped in about 1980, and I knew why, because things diverged after that…You can’t just ignore bits of data that you don’t like.
Friis-Christensen and colleague Nathan Rive, whose evidence on solar heat emmissions was used:
We have concerns regarding the use of a graph featured in the documentary titled ‘Temp & Solar Activity 400 Years’. Firstly, we have reason to believe that parts of the graph were made up of fabricated data that were presented as genuine. The inclusion of the artificial data is both misleading and pointless. Secondly, although the narrator commentary during the presentation of the graph is consistent with the conclusions of the paper from which the figure originates, it incorrectly rules out a contribution by anthropogenic greenhouse gases to 20th century global warming.
I hope this posts. The first post was somewhat more extensive.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:41 amThere are more examples where that came from RAL.
And what you lack is a basic understanding of how currency instability and oil prices impact a country’s economy, perhaps because you are currently in a country where such issues do not dictate how many people can eat the next day. We have high food inflation because the vast majority of African farming is subsistance farming, we happen to have a drought right now, and Zimbabwe, a major agricultural region, is under the thumb of a madman.
You pretend that Africa’s problems are about the price of food. It is not the price of food, it isn’t even the availability of food, it is transporting that food, coupled with bad politics. Africa would still starve if food was free, because our food supply is a political issue, both here and in the parasitic first world which uses aide as a means of keeping us quiet and preventing us actually developing our own independent supplies.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:51 amBruce Gorton
No, your actual problem is free trade. i.e. You cannot produce at prices that are above breakeven in terms of net physical economic profit, due to the extremeties of globalized markets.
If you had nuclear power, you could desalinate sea water and hence, not have to rely on rain for your crops.
Here are some interviews with actual scientists who contributed to that propaganda piece, the GGWS…
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2007/3422piers_corbyn.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_20-29/2007-25/pdf/33-37_725.pdf
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2007/3419dr_akasofu.html
This is also an important read if you want to hear the truth about the IPCC:
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_10-19/2007-11/pdf/38_711_science.pdf
Take the time to read them and then carry on your stupid rant about twisted science…
July 31st, 2007 at 1:03 pmRAL
We have nuclear power you idiot.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:14 pmOh, and free trade? The invisible hand isn’t currently beating welts into its political opponents in Zimbabwe.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:15 pmNot enough of it obviously.
Like I said, read the interviews and we can discuss further.
But then, since your mind is already made up on the subject, what’s the point?
July 31st, 2007 at 1:16 pmBruce Gorton
Unless you hadn’t noticed, democracy is under assault globally.
Zimbabwe is an extreme case, and yes it is run by a madman, but that does not get to the cause of the problems we are facing.
That can be found in the collapsing international speculative casino. The one which you seem to be intent on defending, even as it collapses, and turns to ever increasing orders of magnitude of cannibalism of the real physical economy to keep itself alive.
In summary, pretty soon you will have bigger things to worry about than global warming. That is, assuming we make it through 2007 without starting a nuclear war.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pmNuclear energy
South Africa currently has one commercial nuclear power station at Koeberg near Cape Town. It provides 1 800 MW of Eskom’s installed electricity generation capacity of 37600 MW, less than 5% of the total. There is intensive debate among energy planners as to whether nuclear energy should play a role in South Africa. In addition to being a costly option, nuclear fission produces dangerous radioactive by-products. There is considerable concern about their safe containment in the case of accidents at nuclear power stations, the closing down (decommissioning) of old power stations, and the storage of highly toxic wastes. At present, low-level radioactive wastes are stored in sealed containers which are buried underground at disposal sites. No long-term solution has been agreed on for the safe storage of high-level radioactive wastes, some of which remain harmful for thousands of years. At present there is no national policy to deal with radioactive waste.
Hardly a national nuclear energy policy now, is it Bruce?
July 31st, 2007 at 1:29 pmFinal point – no, the invisible hand is not beating it’s political opponents in Zimbabwe, but it is killing millions of Africans by attrition, disease, and malnutrition.
i.e. You can thank Al Gore for worsening the Aids epidemic in SA when he intervened on behalf of the drug companies’ intellectual property rights. Look it up…
You just can’t beat the free market for mass death in the name of profit.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:31 pmRAL
It is called Kohlberg. Recently studies were done into the economic viability of using it to desalinate and it was found that it wasn’t, actually, economically viable.
And shit you are calling me an idiot when you are quoting as a source of ultimate truth: A documentary which has the scientists quoted in the documentary talking about suing the channel that aired the documentary for mis-representing their views.
You are a conspiracy theorist, you think there is this great conspiracy by liberal scientists to force you to plant trees and save money on your electricity consumption. Maybe also to make farming a bit more profitable (Though bioethonal and biodiesel are both considered quick fixes, not permanent solutions.)
That is the sum total of how the evil scientist/liberal world takeover is supposed to occur.
The reason why I don’t believe you is simple, I have read the same studies you have, and actually checked up on them. Your guys are mostly funded by oil interests, are mostly economists (Who can’t even get the field of economics right 9/10) and a guy whose chief qualification in any academic field of study, is classics and journalism.
Me, I will go with what the actual scientists have to say. And they say that you are wrong. You of course counter with a conspiracy theory saying most of the world’s scientists are using it as a mad cap scheme to bring about a governmental system I actually agree with.
You read that right, I agree with international government. I think the world needs a basic minimum wage, open borders and a single currency. I see multiple currencies as needlessly complicating world trade.
I think that it would be a wonderful thing if we were not a collection of nationalities but rather a collection of individuals. Free trade? Great, if everyone has the same minimum wage and enviromental standards to uphold.
I think a singular criminal code would massively aid fighting the scourges of drugs, slavery and dictatorship. I also have noted how effective the UN is, and if that is what they are trying for, they aren’t trying very hard.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:33 pmBruce Gorton
Absolutely brilliant.
Firstly you state that anyone (scientist or otherwise) who disagrees with your consensus view of the truth is a conspirator of powerful economic interests – “the evil oil companies” (notwithstanding that most oil companies have recently come out in favour of policies consistent with global warming), and then you deny that conspiracies exist.
The you go on to say that even though no “world government” conspiracy exists, that you are a conspirator in bringing about the thing that does not exist.
Are you insane or what?
Sorry, no you are not insane, you are a globalist. Wow, and I thought this was a “left wing” blog.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pmRAL
What is insane about it?
It isn’t much of a conspiracy to say that oil companies do not like the idea of going broke, and they have a lot more money then most private researchers do. And it isn’t like the connections between the oil industry and a lot of these guys are all that hidden.
Heck, not too long ago the oil industry was offering $10,000 to any scientist who would publish a peer reviewed article refuting global warming.
As to internationalism? I feel it would be highly desireable – but I don’t see it happening any time soon and to be frank about it, religion is a far greater barrier to it then nationalism ever was, or haven’t you read Revelations?;
July 31st, 2007 at 2:26 pm