Ken Pollack And Michael O’Hanlon: Often Wrong, But Never In Doubt
Ken Pollack And Michael O’Hanlon: Often Wrong, But Never In Doubt
After a recent trip to Iraq, Brookings analysts Michael O’Hanlon and Ken Pollack report today in the New York Times that “we are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms.”
O’Hanlon and Pollack bill themselves “as two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq.” The op-ed contains “no mention anywhere of the fact that both men very prominently backed the initial invasion and the ’surge.’” Pollack, who authored a pre-war book he described as “the case for invading Iraq,” appeared on the Oprah Winfrey show in Oct. 2002 uncritically touting the false intelligence about Iraq:
POLLACK: What we know for a fact from a number of defectors who’ve come out of Iraq over the years is that Saddam Hussein is absolutely determined to acquire nuclear weapons and is building them as fast as he can.
O’Hanlon has shared Pollack’s euphoria over attacking Iraq. Prior to the invasion, he predicted a “a rapid and decisive” victory. He has sought to convince war critics to get behind the escalation. And now he is pushing a plan for Iraq that envisions a long-term occupation.
Now that Pollack and O’Hanlon have returned from Iraq, they are embarking on a public relations tour calling for stay the course in Iraq. During an appearance this weekend on CNN, O’Hanlon claimed that war “is going brilliantly at this point.” Asked to respond to O’Hanlon’s assertion, CNN Baghdad corespondent Arwa Damon said the sentiment on the ground in Iraq is completely the opposite:
FOREMAN: Arwa, is there a sense in Baghdad on the ground that that’s exactly what’s happening?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tom, actually not when you speak to the Iraqi people. In fact, most of those that I’ve spoken to will not really say that they feel that the situation is getting better. Remember, they’re not measuring their own security in terms of numbers of U.S. casualties or numbers of bodies that were found unidentified throughout the entire capital. They are measuring their sense of whether or not things are getting better by the level of comfort with which they can leave their homes. For most Iraqis, they are still just as petrified of falling victim of sectarian violence or any other sort of attack that could take place in the capital today as they were before the surge began.
Watch it:
Pollack and O’Hanlon applaud the administration’s military strategy for providing “basic services — electricity, fuel, clean water and sanitation — to the people,” praise the ‘reliability‘ of Iraqi security forces, and express genuine surprise over “how well the coalition’s new Embedded Provincial Reconstruction Teams are working.” O’Hanlon’s metrics of success have no grounding in reality:
– Residents of Baghdad are now receiving just one or two hours of electricity each day
– Iraqi security forces are deserting in large numbers
– A new report released last week found that reconstruction has stalled
Ken Pollack and Michael O’Hanlon: often wrong, but never in doubt.
UPDATE: O’Hanlon’s dispatch from a previous trip to Iraq, 10/5/03:
The U.S.-led mission in Iraq is still quite likely to succeed over a time period of roughly three to five years. The lack of any unifying ideology for the resistance there makes it unlikely we will face a snowballing mass insurgency. Moreover, most of the difficult attributes of the effort are not the result of administration mistakes so much as the inherent challenge of the job.
Atrios notes that O’Hanlon and Pollack parrot an old conservative line.
More from Jonathan Schwarz.
UPDATE II: Joe Klein offers a muddled reaction:
I agree with many, but not all, of the conclusions Ken Pollack and Michael O’Hanlon reach in this NY Times column, but you really can’t write a piece about the wa[r] in Iraq and devote only two sentences to the political situation, which is disastrous and, as Petraeus has said, will determine the success or failure of the overall effort.
Transcript:
FOREMAN: So what’s the real situation on the ground? Arwa Damon is in our Baghdad bureau. CNN military analyst Brigadier David Grange, U.S. Army retired joins us from Chicago and here in Washington Michael O’Hanlon, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, just back from Iraq. Michael, let me start with you. The basic question, is the surge working?
MICHAEL O’HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: In military terms, yes. Two big reasons, one, we are doing very well against al Qaeda in Iraq. I don’t want to jump into this whole debate about whether they’re taking orders from Osama bin Laden or not, but they have an extreme ideology and they have gone so far that the Sunni-Arab tribes are now fighting against them. I walked through the streets of Ramadi a couple of days ago without body armor. That city is turned around, 95 percent reduction of violence because the Sunni sheikhs and tribes are with us now against al Qaeda. That’s going great. The sectarian violence much less well resolved so far, but at least we’ve put a bit of a cap or a lid on it with our greater troop strength. So that’s the more long-term problem. But the fight against al Qaeda is going brilliantly at the moment.
FOREMAN: Arwa, is there a sense in Baghdad on the ground that that’s exactly what’s happening?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tom, actually not when you speak to the Iraqi people. In fact, most of those that I’ve spoken to will not really say that they feel that the situation is getting better. Remember, they’re not measuring their own security in terms of numbers of U.S. casualties or numbers of bodies that were found unidentified throughout the entire capital. They are measuring their sense of whether or not things are getting better by the level of comfort with which they can leave their homes. For most Iraqis, they are still just as petrified of falling victim of sectarian violence or any other sort of attack that could take place in the capital today as they were before the surge began.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Madame Brookings’ Boy Whores.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:29 amIraqi police, not army. The police have always been a tougher job to get going because of the infiltration from the savages. Of course the words used were “possibly as many”.
As for electricity, under Saddam’s rule (which Im sure most of you lament the loss of) power was shunted toward the Sunni areas and the Shiites barely got any. Now the grid is being run to everyone while, as with most things that were in Saddams Iraq, the equipment to generate electricity is old, worn out and ill-maintained.
Also, the economy is starting to take over, meaning people are buying things they couldnt get before, electric and electronic things which are drawing more power.
Now I know you fools would claim that a single pothole in a Baghdad road is proof that all is lost, but really, if youre going to barf this stuff out at least have the sense to understand the minutia that lies behind it.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:30 amThe pig is still undeniably a pig…and Pollack and O’Hanlon are running out of lipstick.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:31 amThis morning Washington Journal had an entire hour segment on the possibility of a win in Iraq. Don’t lose sight of the cover that this gives Hillary Clinton in the continued defense of her pro-war vote that she refuses to disavow. Soon to be bolstered by Petreus and his report on how the surge is working they’ll try to strike the final blows to Obama.
When “winning” means a generational occupation of another country by thousands of troops you have to wonder where the forward thinkers are in this country. The DNC strikes again!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:33 amWhy do these guys keep getting published in the paper of record?
July 30th, 2007 at 10:33 amyeah, i was just reading this myself and thinking, gee, how comforting it must be to be them… the rosy picture of iraq sounds so convincing… would that it was true…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
July 30th, 2007 at 10:34 amIs ANYONE going to go back over the records of their guests and confront them rather than take what they say as “fact” when it is clearly nothing more than “opinion” based on partisan wishful thinking???
What am I saying? Of course not! There’s AN ENTIRE TV NETWORK dedicated to just that philosophy of reporting: Fox.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:34 amThese boys are in need of remedial Sesame Street education.
I’ve a special secret children ought to know;
It’s about the little mistakes you make as you begin to grow.
If you make a mistake, you shouldn’t start to cry.
Mistakes are not so bad, and here is why:
Oh everyone makes mistakes.
Oh, yes they do
Your sister and your brother and your dad and mother too;
Big people, small people, matter of fact, all people!
Everyone makes mistakes, so why can’t you?
If you make a mistake while counting to ten,
Well don’t get mad and don’t be sad;
Just start to count again.
And if you should only get to eight or nine,
I’m still your friend and I still like you fine,
‘Cause everyone makes mistakes.
Oh, yes they do
Your sister and your brother and your dad and mother too;
Big people, small people, matter of fact, all people!
Everyone makes mistakes, so why can’t you?
If you spill a glass of milk all over the floor,
Well, your mom and dad still like you just as much as they did before,
‘Cause when Mother and Dad were just as small as you,
I’ll bet that they knocked their milk over too.
‘Cause everyone makes mistakes.
Oh, yes they do
Your sister and your brother and your dad and mother too;
Big people, small people, matter of fact, all people!
Everyone makes mistakes, so why can’t you?
If everyone in the whole wide world makes mistakes,
July 30th, 2007 at 10:36 amThen why can’t you?
We must blow up Iraqs infrastructure so we can spend billions rebuilding it. Its the least we can do to help the terrorists.
We should fly in another 8 billion cash and just give it away and jump start the terrorist economy.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:36 amYes, unfortunately, Pollack is the guy I listened to on Charlie Rose about ten times before the invasion of Iraq. My mistake! My Bad!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:37 amI read one report that states that 1/3 of the Iraqi people are at hope’s end and then this comes along? Somebody must be missing something.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:39 am“as with most things that were in Saddams Iraq, the equipment to generate electricity is old, worn out and ill-maintained.”
Yeah, well under the brilliant direction of this administration the “reconstruction” of Iraq is just as failed as the rest of this administrations simplistic nation building schemes. Recently the Iraqi’s in control of a recently built power plant put the wrong fuel in brand new turbines and ruined them to the tune of millions of dollars of OUR money. We are spending 200,000.00 per minute to “reconstruct” what we destroyed to hand it over to people who don’t know how to use it.
Yeah things are so much better than they were. Sell crazy somewhere else.
Insofar as lamenting the loss of Saddam, f*ck off with your retarded fortune cookie philosophy.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:39 amwere they on the same dog’n'pony show as billy kristol…
July 30th, 2007 at 10:40 am93 slain in Iraq in the last two days:
http://www.usatoday.com/ news/ world/ iraq/ 2007-07-30-iraq-monday_N.htm
Do you call that success? Mr. hawk from Brookings?
July 30th, 2007 at 10:43 amC’mon Dems the war should have been defunded but you are playing politics with our troops in Iraq.
Represent the people who put you in office and defund the war or are you the spineless, unprincipled sociopaths the cons say you are?
July 30th, 2007 at 10:45 amA couple of classic neoColons.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:45 amNow I know you fools would claim that a single pothole in a Baghdad road is proof that all is lost, but really, if youre going to barf this stuff out at least have the sense to understand the minutia that lies behind it. Comment by Rockefeeler
Say how is that Laura Bush Hospital going in Basra?
150% Percent over cost?
Bechtel dropped?
Why we must kill more oppressed terrorists so we can finish that hospital and make them terrorists all better with some free health care paid for by the American taxpayer.
We are the party of life after all.
I thirsty and could use some tainted water. You got Haliburtons phone number Mr Rockefeller?
Say, we should build a nuklar power plant in Iraq them being a democracy and all.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:45 am93 slain in Iraq in the last two days:
Do you call that success? Mr. hawk from Brookings?
Comment by Andrew — July 30, 2007 @ 10:43 am
That leaves only 7.999.903 Iraqis in abject poverty - real progress.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:46 amTroll,
“C’mon Dems the war should have been defunded but you are playing politics with our troops in Iraq.”
Ridiculous. It was the President that threatened to keep the troops in the desert if he didn’t get his funding. It’s the President that is playing ‘chicken’ with the lives of our armed forces.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:47 amHow long did these goons serve in the military?
Since they’re still blabbing false hope, I’d say not long enough.
They’d better serve the country KIA & Six feet under ground, pricks.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:47 amso these guys have been wrong about everything so far, and we should blindly say “oh sure everything is fine, pass the Kool-aid”?
Gimme a break
July 30th, 2007 at 10:48 amRepresent the people who put you in office and defund the war or are you the spineless, unprincipled sociopaths the cons say you are?
Comment by Troll
Hey, those Democrats voted for the use of force on that there resolution. They are no more or less spineless than my beloved GOP chickenhawks.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:49 amWow, this is creepy stuff. It’s scary knowing guys like O’Hanlon have access to CNN and the other media outlets. The think tanks, reporters, media and politicians continue to ignore the safety and security of the average American in order to bolster imperialist adventures that only benefit large multinational corporations
July 30th, 2007 at 10:49 amComment by Crump’s Brother — July 30, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Crump
July 30th, 2007 at 10:51 amAll you want to believe is that Bush and The neocons are evil and the dems are virtuous. Well grow up man. They are slime who screwed with you retards to get elected but did not do they said they would do. You make excuses for them and are as retarded as the Bushites.
Ingmar Bergman is dead
July 30th, 2007 at 10:51 amJimbo, if you want to learn more about how right-wing ideologues infiltrate the mainstream media, I recommend the book “Republican Noise Machine”, by David Brock. He tells of how the mainstream media is terrified of being called “liberal”, caving to pressure from the Limbaughs and the Murdochs, etc.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:52 amThanks for this posting. I knew there must be an alternative opinion when I read this story. TP comes through again!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:55 amHow soon these lying idiots find a friend here.
Take a look at the scum sucking ROCKFEEDER.
He’s happy enough to lie right along with them. He’s a fan.
It’s always Republican men lying with each one way or another isn’t it?
Two hours a day of electricity is not better then under Saddam and it’s not because things have worn out or because Iriaqi’s have really powerful Ipods now.
It’s because what the US did not destroy outright by bombing was allowed to be destroyed by looting. Now to follow that up with incompetent twenty somethings put in charge of reconstruction for profit with no oversight and the outcome is exactly what is to be expected. Big profits for Bushs buddies and nothing for the Iraqi’s.
Hey the economy is great in Iraq. How about a nice translator job for the rockfeeder. How long do you thinke he would last?
And Now what kind of fool could look at the death and destruction in Iraq and see a single pothole?
What kind of insane asshole could be so blind.
NO HUMAN COULD. A bottom feeding slimy thing, maybe.
Liars don’t need to see anything. They just need everone else NOT to.
Comment by Rockefeeler — July 30, 2007 @ 10:30 am
July 30th, 2007 at 10:56 amRemember. These are the serious, high-minded people who the media trusts to put the war in perspective. So what if they’re “critics” who have been everything but critical? We can’t have those out-there, wild-eyed fringe whackos and DFHs diluting the fact that we may…JUST MAY actually win this thing, as long as we have six more months.
….what? You say six months have already passed? But we just got started! Six more months, I assure you! Come back to us in six more months!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:58 amAfter Saudi Arabia, now Egypt at 13 and Israel at 30
July 30th, 2007 at 10:58 amNow I know you fools would claim that a single pothole in a Baghdad road is proof that all is lost, but really, if youre going to barf this stuff out at least have the sense to understand the minutia that lies behind it.
Comment by Rockefeeler — July 30, 2007 @ 10:30 am
Ok, your points are interesting enough. Where are your sources that show electrical output is better (just more distributed). I would like to see them. Everything I have seen shows that total output has decreased. Unemployment has risen to between 70% - 80%. Not to mention the death toll. Please provide the links or sources for me so I can take a look.
The power plant that was in my area of operations over 2 years ago is still NON-OPERATIONAL. After 4 full years of “reconstruction” we still can not provide enough water (let alone electricity). Thanks.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:00 amTroll,
“You make excuses for them and are as retarded as the Bushites.”
Does it make you feel better about yourself to call me a retard?
I agree that the Dems should have called Bush’s bluff. If he had actually left our troops out with out the equipment they need to get out safely, (something he has already done when it comes to proper equipment) then the country would have turned on him even harder, and impeachment would have been a cakewalk. But it was Bush who was making the threat to do just that.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:00 amNeocons ARE EVIL, PURE EVIL. People who vote republican are too stupid to figure that out. The most gullable voting block are neo-conservatives. They can’t think for themselves. They need someone to tell them how to think.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:01 amPollack is named in the current AIPAC spy case, enough said.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:01 amMay 2003: “major combat operations have ended”
July 2007: “we are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms.â€
July 30th, 2007 at 11:06 amNow I know you fools would claim that a single pothole in a Baghdad road is proof that all is lost, but really, if youre going to barf this stuff out at least have the sense to understand the minutia that lies behind it.
Comment by Rockefeeler — July 30, 2007 @ 10:30 am
How’s that koooool aid?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:09 amIraq’s infrastructure may be old, but those explosions going off may have had some ‘impact’ on the amount of electricity available. I bet the new embassy has electricity 24/7.
By all means, don’t listen to people who have been to Iraq and actually have information and knowledge from which to base their conclusion.
Just merely keep “parroting” the anti-American spineless radical lose-at-all costs liberal line which states we must sit back and wait to be attacked over and over and just accept it. Thankfully, even the Democrats don’t actually believe your BS. They are just far more scared of actual success than most because they have so heavily invested their political futures in defeat. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be Democratic politician on the national level these days, having to bend far left just enough to placate the vocal, kook liberal fringe, and yet not alienate the rest of regular America leaves them standing there looking like Bavarian Pretzels.
And by all means, you worthless pieces o’ crap who wish death upon our own people, please, feel free to head over to Iraq and help the poor folks out over there. Maybe seeing some of you liberals over there handing out food and other care packages while standing in the line of fire might change the rest of the countries opinion of you. If nothing else, if a stray bullet catches you off guard, and we see you being sent back home in a box, we can call it “kismet”.
Otherwise, just shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:09 amWrong all the time, all the way.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:11 amOtherwise, just shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
heckuva job, neoColons. Only 8 million,= 1/3 of the entire population in need of emergency aid.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:11 amOnly a large ped neocolon could believe this stupifying crap.
Today, morale is high. The soldiers and marines told us they feel that they now have a superb commander in Gen. David Petraeus; they are confident in his strategy, they see real results, and they feel now they have the numbers needed to make a real difference.
Hate to be a naysayer, but I think morale is high because these troops are moving into and securing neighborhoods. We’ve done it before only to be called back and watch as the same area fill with insurgents. It’s like digging a hole at the beach, the sand fills back in with every wave and it’s friggin’ pointless. Morale might be high now, but ask these exact same Soldiers 3 months from now. I think their outlook might be a bit different.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:11 amChoices are 2: Occupy on a permanent basis or watch as everything you’ve worked hard for and lost buddies for falls apart.
Petraeus might be popular with the troops, but I think I heard on the radio this weekend that he’s not real popular with Maliki, their relationship is pretty tense and strained from what I heard.
TP admins, looks like another paid troll posing as a steroid pumped baseball player needs elimination from the site
July 30th, 2007 at 11:12 amMr. Higgins your fake!
July 30th, 2007 at 11:13 amPollack is named in the current AIPAC spy case, enough said.
Comment by tom — July 30, 2007 @ 11:01 am
In late August of 2005 Pollack confirmed to Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) News Service that he was one of the unnamed U.S. government officials known only as “USGO-1″; referred to in the indictment of Larry Franklin and two employees of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), filed by prosecutors as part of the AIPAC espionage scandal. He denies any wrongdoing, and has not been charged with any crimes.
From Wikipedia
The most gullable voting block are neo-conservatives. They can’t think for themselves. They need someone to tell them how to think.
Comment by RepublicansRHYPOCRITS — July 30, 2007 @ 11:01 am
The very definition of Right Wing Authoritarians. They need ‘Daddy’ to tell them what to do. Who’s your Daddy?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:14 amCan’t Find Osama?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:15 amAttack Iran Instead
These people like Pollack make a trip or two to Iraq ,less than three days total, sitting in a well guarded & protected hotel, then they come back home and speak with full authority about Iraq and Iraqis,as if they know it all.
How could they…?!
They can’t even walk in any street in Iraq, they don’t speak the language,they don’t know the culture..but they make big assessments and claims,after they come back from Iraq…
They call themselves ‘experts’,and the media treat them as such..but we heard them before the war,and we know how inaccurate they were then…
They are inaccurate also now…but the media still selling them to us as ‘experts’.
A new ‘Middle Eastern’ expert is born every day,and presented to us as such by the television networks.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:15 amPollack has been wrong before in a big way, just like most of them..but his ideas, words still sought while,regardless…
I say find someone who know something about Iraq and the Middle East(unbiased).
But the media is not there inform us.
Boy, the trolls sure are at it bright and early today. All that energy and attitude, and so little to say.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:15 amNeocons ARE EVIL, PURE EVIL. People who vote republican are too stupid to figure that out. The most gullable voting block are neo-conservatives. They can’t think for themselves. They need someone to tell them how to think.
Comment by RepublicansRHYPOCRITS
Nice strawman, but if any group is gullible it is liberals. You guys automatically dance to whatever the tune of the day is—global warming, Iraq, Bush hatred, etc.
If you think corruption only lies on one side of the aisle, you’re in for a rude awakening.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:17 amAnd by all means, you worthless pieces o’ crap who wish death upon our own people, please, feel free to head over to Iraq and help the poor folks out over there. Maybe seeing some of you liberals over there handing out food and other care packages while standing in the line of fire might change the rest of the countries opinion of you. If nothing else, if a stray bullet catches you off guard, and we see you being sent back home in a box, we can call it “kismetâ€.
Otherwise, just shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Excellent advice. Have you signed up yet to die a glorious death for the ‘homeland’? Uncle Sam needs you, so I’m sure you have a good reason for not going.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:17 amRemember, people, six more months! Six more mo-…
Oh, screw it. I can’t keep this up without suffering permanent brain damage. Seriously, this feels like Groundhog’s Day, we’re Bill Murray, and the ‘We’re Still Winning’ line is ‘I Got You, Babe’.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:18 amThe left-leaning Brookings Institution says that good progress is being made in Iraq. Guess that kinda hurts, huh TP? Your own think tanks are turning on you.
But I’m not worried about you. I’m sure you’ll continue to deny progress. Hey, maybe you should change the name of the web site. denyprogress.org. Kinda catchy, don’t you think?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:18 amHave you signed up yet to die a glorious death for the ‘homeland’?
Comment by funky p
Just a hunch, but I’d bet no.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:19 amFu(k you trolls who’d namejack using a dead hero’s name.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:19 amFrom a psychological perspective, the Bush/Cheney administration and its neocon allies succeeded in promoting the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting our core concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, they will likely try to sell us a continuing occupation of Iraq—or an attack on Iran—in much the same way. I examine these warmongering appeals and how to counter them in a new 10-minute video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It’s available for viewing on YouTube HERE.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:20 ami>Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:09 am
By all means, don’t listen to people who have been to Iraq and actually have information and knowledge from which to base their conclusion.
Just merely keep “parroting†the anti-American chickenhawk radical win-at-all costs neocon line which states we must fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. Thankfully, even the Republicans don’t actually believe your BS. They are just far more scared of actual defeat than most because they have so heavily invested their political futures in victory. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a Republican politician on the national level these days, having to bend far right just enough to placate the vocal, Fundie neocon fringe, and yet not alienate the rest of regular America leaves them standing there looking like Bavarian Pretzels.
(There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.)
July 30th, 2007 at 11:21 amthat good progress is being made in Iraq.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Hehehe. I guess your next holidays will be spent in Baghdad.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:23 amIt seems to me that progressive blogs are being flooded with right-wing bloggers recently who are there just to irritate and throw the progressive bloggers off topic. I wonder if this is some kind of organized plan to diminish the effectiveness of the progressive blogs. The technique seem to be doing an effective job because there seems to be a lot of school yard name calling that breaks out completely destroying the train of thought that started the thread. Call them Trolls if you like, but they may be well organized Trolls with a purpose.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:24 amDon’t spin the truth, Cynicon. You should have said, “two long-time war supporters who cheered the invasion and the surge said the surge is working”. Working for Brookings doesn’t make them liberals.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:24 amMaking fun out of a dead person is the lowest demonstration of personal frustration.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:24 amThis report is good up to May 2007 and outlines the nitty gritty on Iraq. Page 39 has info on electrical generation.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 amThe left-leaning Brookings Institution.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — July 30, 2007 @ 11:18 am
An analyst said this not the Brookings institute. And I for one judge a message on its’ content more than I do on its source. that’s why postings of trolls are so easy to ignore…lack of content.
Joe Lieberman is supposed to be a Democrat/Independent.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 amAnd there is Zell Miller, another brain-damaged Democrat. What they say is crap, it doesn’t matter their party affiliation is.
Carmikl,
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 amKarl Rove pays me 10,000 a week to spy on this blog!
Juan, this is obviously Mr Pee back after a fitful weekend of perpetual masturbation. Still not satisfied, the sock is getting stiffer hourly.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:26 am“heckuva job, neoColons. Only 8 million,= 1/3 of the entire population in need of emergency aid.
Only a large ped neocolon could believe this stupifying crap.
Comment by RUCerious — July 30, 2007 @ 11:11 am”
Believe what “stupid crap’? That a third of Iraq needs emergeny aid? Based on what standard? Ours? Do they need emergency aid because they don’t get electricity 24/7? What about the folks who have never had electricity in their lives? Do they need emergency aid because they aren’t getting the U.S. level of daily caloric intake? Guess what, we’re fat and they aren’t. Sounds to me like whomever came up with this statistic is merely attempting to generate class envy in Iraq just as they attempt to generate class envy in the United States. Hell, give all the Iraqis Playstation 3’s, IPODS, Blackberries, and 37″ LCD TV’s and they’ll be happy, right?
And if you believe that, what exactly are you kind hearted liberal kooks personally doing about it?
Otherwise, shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:27 amthat good progress is being made in Iraq.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Hehehe. I guess your next holidays will be spent in Baghdad.
Comment by Juan C
So what’s your point, Juan? Unless Iraq is a vacation destination, the mission has failed?
Let me know if you want to have a serious discussion — otherwise keep your childish posts to yourself.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:28 amContrary to what some trolls want to imply, Brookings receives funding from the right, too. It’s not a liberal publication. The conservative Olin Foundation gave Brookings $105,000 in 2005:
July 30th, 2007 at 11:28 amhttp://www.mediatransparency.org/ recipientgrants.php?recipientID=570
You just jacked a real soldier’s name.
You a Commie and a worthless human being.
I hope you get Tillman’s fate!
Comment by Barry Bonds
Wait a second…..don’t I recall that you were gonna PROVE me a fake a week or so ago? What happened to your ‘evidence’? Didn’t pan out, huh?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:30 amI recall a couple of years ago, the right wing was all up in arms, because Baghdad was getting about 7-8 hours of electricity a day. They were yelling about how much progress Iraq was making, and as long as we stayed the course everything would be fine. Now Baghdad is down to 1-2 hours a day??? Sounds like progress to me.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:31 amRot in hell, you twisted f*ck.
Comment by Zooey
Good morning Zoo,
July 30th, 2007 at 11:33 amThis fu*kstik has been wishing death on me and name-jacked (I strongly suspect) SPC Tillman’s name above. He’s a real class-act.
Otherwise, shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
When did the professionals get OBL? Guess it was more important to fabricate laughable proofs for going into Iraq so morons who cant use their thumbs say: Hell, that guy has nukelear weapons. Professionals, yes. It shows.
Unless Iraq is a vacation destination, the mission has failed?
Let me know if you want to have a serious discussion — otherwise keep your childish posts to yourself.
Comment by Cynicon Implant
Mission? Could you state without ambiguity the mission´s goals? Please, try. Now, after 5 years, and trillions of your money spent there…I would bet somebody must be fired.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:34 amContrary to what some trolls want to imply, Brookings receives funding from the right, too. It’s not a liberal publication. The conservative Olin Foundation gave Brookings $105,000 in 2005:
Comment by Andrew — July 30, 2007 @ 11:28 am
That makes the report that I reference even more poignant! It is a tale of failure.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:35 amGood morning Zoo,
This fu*kstik has been wishing death on me and name-jacked (I strongly suspect) SPC Tillman’s name above. He’s a real class-act.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 30, 2007 @ 11:33 am
Good morning, Sarge.
I’m sorry this shit goes on here. It’s totally f*cked up.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:35 am“Carmikl,
Karl Rove pays me 10,000 a week to spy on this blog!”
Comment by Barry Bonds — July 30, 2007 @ 11:25 am
10,000 what? Peanuts?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:35 amLet me know if you want to have a serious discussion — otherwise keep your childish posts to yourself.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — July 30, 2007 @ 11:28 am
Otherwise, shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:27 am
Neo con debate technique: As father Bill O’ Really would say STFU.
Please oh lords of the blogosphere, show us enlightenment, lead the way (oh wait, where did you guys go?). The recruiting office is just blocks away. Now join the professionals in the job you are too afraid to do, or get out of the way. You are obstructing progress by not pitching in yourself.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:35 amSerious discussion, if you know what that is, usually would involve facts, although opinions frequently take the place of facts in your minds. I have not been in Iraq, but perhaps Sgt. Higgins has. We all must take someone’s word for it. Unfortunately for the neo clowns, your words have proven false too much of the time.
Get some real facts you Right Wing Authoritarians.
Sounds like progress to me.
Comment by Krazny
Well sure, as long as we’re only counting progress in Kilowatts. But you’re not seeing the ‘big picture’. See, this time last year, there weren’t nearly as many American troops on the ground as there are now. Now that’s progress! (Of course these extra troops are to replace the Spanish, Korean, Japanese and any other partner in the ‘coalition of the willing’ that have decided that they are not so willing after all)
July 30th, 2007 at 11:36 amAmericans must prevail over the forces of evil in Iraq. We will prevail, because we are soldiers of Jesus, and Jesus will prevail.
We must take the oil it belongs to us we have paid for it.
When will Bush start pumping the oil, the fruits of our labors in Iraq
July 30th, 2007 at 11:37 amIf things are so great in Iraq, why not pull out like the British are doing?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:37 amIgnore the troll.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:38 amFrom the San Diego channel 10 website”:
“WASHINGTON — The latest audit report to Congress on Iraq reconstruction says corruption in the country, including fraud, theft and skimming amounts to a “second insurgency” and is hindering the rebuilding effort.
Stuart Bowen, who wrote the quarterly report, told The Associated Press that except for security, corruption is the biggest challenge for the Iraqi government to overcome.
Failure to maintain projects, once transferred to the Baghdad government, also figures in the report. As an example, an Iraqi power plant in Dora rebuilt with tens of millions of U.S. dollars fell into disrepair once transferred to the Baghdad government.
Bowen also notes bright spots like increased oil production. And Iraq is generating more electricity despite problems at the Dora plant.
Bowen said it’s still too early to say whether the rebuilding effort will produce lasting results”
July 30th, 2007 at 11:42 amso sure the egocentric Bonds would care to bloviate on this thread. Looks like Mr. P(issant) is branching out.
Where’s the medias cold hard asessment of Iraq? We don’t need anymore political slants. We need to see the detailed plan(s) and the level of completion.
Let the American people decide after being shown all.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:43 amIf things are so great in Iraq, why not pull out like the British are doing?
Comment by Zimzone
Why stay? It’s the American’s who are so friggin’ adamantly deciding to ’stay the course’. If you were British (you’re not, are you? Good.) would you want your government to ’stay the course’ after what you see in the news? Iraq is a quaqmire, and we really are caught in the middle of a civil war. That’s not defeatism, that’s honesty.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:44 amwhy not pull out like the British are doing?
Comment by Zimzone — July 30, 2007 @ 11:37 am
Even better question, zinzone… WHY are the British pulling out? I thought they were our loyal, steadfast allies. Aren’t the Tonganese and Albanians still staying? THE COALITION OF THE WILLING!!!!
July 30th, 2007 at 11:46 am“When did the professionals get OBL? Guess it was more important to fabricate laughable proofs for going into Iraq so morons who cant use their thumbs say: Hell, that guy has nukelear weapons. Professionals, yes. It shows.
Comment by Juan C — July 30, 2007 @ 11:34 am”
And when did OBL become all of Al Qaida or every terrorist’s personal leader? If you can’t figure out that we need to fight this threat from the bottom up, as well as from the top down, then you aren’t even qualified to comment on the topic. You are merely displaying your ignorance. Which, in a way, is a good thing.
We know Saddam Hussein was working on either making or acquiring nuclear weapons. That is fact. It doesn’t matter how far along he was in his plan. Hussein understood he needed nukes in order to counteract his not-so-friendly neighbor, Iran. Better to stop him now, than after he had the nukes.
Would it have been better for all of you if Iran and Iraq merely nuked each other in say 10-15 years? Would that have been better for the world? Perhaps so. It would have dealt with two problems at once, and we, literally, would only have deal with the “fallout”.
Now we only have to deal with a nuclear Iran. And if we don’t do it, I can assure you Isreal will.
It’s only a matter of time.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:49 amOtherwise, shut up, get out of the way, and let the professionals do their job.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:27 am
Good god, there’s not a single rational, coherent thought in this screed. KKKarl must have bought these trolls at Walmart.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:49 amOk, I am going to be cordial even though you chose to insult me. Oh, by the way, I have been there. I did not spend more than 2 weeks total in the Green Zone. I have also talked to people who have been there since and will be going again (for the 3rd time). Talk to the military service members from IVAW. Staying in the Green Zone does not qualify for being an expert on the country.
I have simply asked for facts from people posting here. If things are better, show me the facts. Show me your statistics. We have seen plenty of statistics and facts showing that the occupation in Iraq is not going well and the surge is having little effect. I am sure more than a few would be willing to post them again. Although there may be progress in one area, the declines in other areas more than negate any gains.
Go ahead, demonize me as “UnAmerican” a “traitor” or whatever makes you feel better for dismissing my concerns. Know this, I WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT, however, I know that you are not. I wish every day that I am wrong. I went to Iraq even though I didn’t believe we should have invaded. I wanted to help my country and hoped I could be part of the solution. I have said it before, and I will say it again, at every turn where we could have made a difference, the administration undermined the efforts of the troops . The troops have provided security in many areas, but the reconstruction never came - that only contributes to the hatred of American forces over there.
Go right ahead “parroting” the talking points and calling me a coward. Where were you when you went over there? Since you made it clear that if you believe in helping the Iraqis, you have to go over there to do it, I would assume that to support this war, you would also agree that you have to go over there to do it (especially when the military is hurting). I just want to know what area you were in when you fought in Iraq.
Anyway, back to my original point, please post the facts, figures, and statistics that support your optimistic view. I want to believe you, I just have a little problem believing without any information. I will assume your insults were sheer ignorance and you did not mean them.
Peace,
Dan
July 30th, 2007 at 11:50 amIt’s only a matter of time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:49 am
You know he’s a man’s man, folks. Codpieces that big never lie!
July 30th, 2007 at 11:50 amGot anything real to say? Or just agitating for cheap thrills?
Comment by funky p — July 30, 2007 @ 11:46 am
You need to ask? lol
Mr. Higgins,
It’s a shame your Commie ass isn’t in Iraq.
So you could end up like your buddy Pat Tillman!
Comment by Barry Bond
Ummm Hey d!psh*t,
July 30th, 2007 at 11:51 amIf I was in Iraq, I wouldn’t end up like Pat Tillman. He was killed in Afghanistan. As for him being my ‘buddy’…. I would have been honored to have ever met him.
Baseball is boring beyond belief. No one cares Barry
July 30th, 2007 at 11:52 am#36,
Too retarded for words
July 30th, 2007 at 11:55 amAnd if we don’t do it, I can assure you Isreal will.
It’s only a matter of time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Israel is in the middle of a internal crisis produced by the Lebanon´s fiasco of trying to get back their kidnapped soldiers (I guess those soldieres were really important because they kept looking for them…or not?) So, I wouldnt put my money on Israel attacking Iran. I guess US will bomb Iran but will not invade it…US knows it is suicide and no benefits.
Now, going back to Saddam. The worst of Saddam´s crimes occur in 1988 when he gassed Kurds, what did Reagan´s govt say about it? mmm… US knew that Saddam posed no threat at all. Thats the way with every totalitarian regime like US, China and Russia. They wont engage another state with NUKES, no matter what. Why US didnt attack North Korea? Better yet, if US is really worried about dictators all around the world, guess they miss the 2nd greatest country in the world and one of the worst countries when it comes to human rights: China. Give it a shot at China, Bigfoot. Lets see how that goes. Hypocresy. Just that.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:57 amBaseball is boring beyond belief. No one cares Barry
Comment by dbadass
Don’t make me come over there and kick your butt. Baseball is NOT boring.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:57 amThanks for the post DanVaveman as well as your service. I agree. I want to see facts. I’d also like to see the other side finally push for what the fear they spout is calling for. A draft. If the menace is so great, we need to combat it only with total domination of all things scary. But yet when the draft is discussed it’s put off as not needed.
I wonder what the real Bonds would think about someone here spouting unpatriotic blather in his name? He’s such an understanding person.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:59 amComment by Texas Democrat — July 30, 2007 @ 11:55 am
You serve a better purpose in life when you’re sucking Muslims.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:59 amBaseball is NOT boring.
Comment by gummitch
Come on… chewing tobacco for 3 hours is not fun.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:00 pmWe know Saddam Hussein was working on either making or acquiring nuclear weapons. That is fact. It doesn’t matter how far along he was in his plan. Hussein understood he needed nukes in order to counteract his not-so-friendly neighbor, Iran. Better to stop him now, than after he had the nukes.
Would it have been better for all of you if Iran and Iraq merely nuked each other in say 10-15 years? Would that have been better for the world? Perhaps so. It would have dealt with two problems at once, and we, literally, would only have deal with the “falloutâ€.
Now we only have to deal with a nuclear Iran. And if we don’t do it, I can assure you Isreal will.
It’s only a matter of time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Liar. All lies, all the time. I’m ashamed that there are American citizens as uninformed and easily duped as you, bigfoot. Not a shred of fact or proof in all of your allegations. i can’t wait until ‘08 when you jerkoffs are completely powerless to keep raping Iraq and the USA. In the meantime, keep on lying, it’s all you’re good for and all you’re good at.
Traitor pig.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:00 pmUncle Sam needs you, so I’m sure you have a good reason for not going.
Comment by funky p — July 30, 2007 @ 11:17 am
Most likely some sort of embarrassing medical condition he’d prefer not to discuss in public.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:00 pmIf you can’t figure out that we need to fight this threat from the bottom up, as well as from the top down, then you aren’t even qualified to comment on the topic. You are merely displaying your ignorance. Which, in a way, is a good thing.
We know Saddam Hussein was working on either making or acquiring nuclear weapons. That is fact. It doesn’t matter how far along he was in his plan. Hussein understood he needed nukes in order to counteract his not-so-friendly neighbor, Iran. Better to stop him now, than after he had the nukes.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 30, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Oh confused one, your second paragraph from the quotes above, contradicts your first. You have thus proven yourself either too biased, or too uninformed to argue your own points. Any nuclear program Iraq had was long before dismantled. Scott Ritter said so, he was there as a weapons inspector, and you were not. He was right (proven many times over in fact) and you were/are wrong. There is just no factual basis for your statement, so I can only hope that you read a little into the subject before making a fool of your self. Again.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:00 pmMeanwhile, what about that recruiting office. What, are you afraid?
Don’t make me come over there and kick your butt. Baseball is NOT boring.
Comment by gummitch — July 30, 2007 @ 11:57 am
To each their own. As to Barry my quess is we are in agreement. Why can’t they say someone is batting 50%? Do they inflate the numbers to overcome the assoication with school percentage grades or is there some other reason? Never ever ever take a ‘lude and go to a baseball game….
July 30th, 2007 at 12:01 pmYou serve a better purpose in life when you’re sucking Muslims.
Comment by CT Scantonocity — July 30, 2007 @ 11:59 am
You serve no purpose in life when you’re creating terorists by using terrorism. You’re a waste of carbon, like all chickenhawks. Coward.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:02 pmComment by DanCaveman — July 30, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Dan; Thank you for your service, and your honesty. I sense you know lots more about what’s going on than ANY troll who is too afraid to back up their hollow talk with action. You have exposed them for the cowards they are, and shown the hero that you are.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pmYou serve a better purpose in life when you’re sucking Muslims.
Comment by CT Scantonocity
Yep, TRoS, Wal-mart… no doubt.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pmMeanwhile, what about that recruiting office. What, are you afraid?
Comment by funky p — July 30, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
See my comment above yours for the reason.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:05 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — July 30, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Mr. Monkey continues…..
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:05 pmThere’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
There’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
Yep, TRoS, Wal-mart… no doubt.
Comment by Juan C — July 30, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
Well, that’s just like the righties, they even lowball this - the cheaper the better!!! And the quality just… oozes… and dribbles… out of every post.
You get what you pay for!
July 30th, 2007 at 12:07 pmThere’s more to your post, but it’s not even worth replying to.
Comment by CT Scantonocity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
There’s acertain, “masturbatory” quality to CT’s post, isn’t there?
July 30th, 2007 at 12:08 pmAnbar Province is almost 100% Sunni so the Civil War isn’t really a factor. It may be one of the only places in Iraq where the war is against al-Qaeda so it could be considered a success. The law of unintended consequences is likely to catch up with us there though. We appear to have taken sides with the Sunnis, and maybe we have. That’s not going to sit well elsewhere. Maliki and the other Shiite leaders certainly don’t like it.
When the so called “Surge” started the Shiite militias could afford to lie low because we were doing their job for them, namely fighting and killing Sunnis. Our new tactic of allying ourselves with Sunnis is likely to reenergize the Shiite militias and drive them closer to Iran.
Al-Qaeda has never been the biggest threat to peace in Iraq, so we could completely eliminate al-Qaeda and Iraq would still be far from at peace. Left to their own devices, the Iraqis would probably eliminate al-Qaeda on their own. The Kurds don’t want them. The Shiites have been fighting them from the beginning. Now the Sunnis are turning against them. Al-Qaeda in Iraq is probably toast, but that’s not the end of our problems.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:08 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Supporting Muslims…the left can’t get any lower than this.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:09 pm“It seems to me that progressive blogs are being flooded with right-wing bloggers recently who are there just to irritate and throw the progressive bloggers off topic. I wonder if this is some kind of organized plan to diminish the effectiveness of the progressive blogs. The technique seem to be doing an effective job because there seems to be a lot of school yard name calling that breaks out completely destroying the train of thought that started the thread. Call them Trolls if you like, but they may be well organized Trolls with a purpose.
Comment by Carmikl — July 30, 2007 @ 11:24 am”
No one’s contacted me to be any part of an “organized plan”, but I would be happy to participate if asked.
My take on this “flood” is that people are starting to figure out where all this anti-American crap is going on, and are starting to seek out and inject their opinions with the idea that the liberal kook fringe cannot continue to assume they have power they actually do not have.
There is no monolithic pro-impeachment, anti-Bush, hate movement. It’s all a farce foisted on the American public by a vocal, radical, few. It’s getting a lot of press (mostly bad because of the raw hatred expressed) because it’s a relatively new phenomenon, but will soon fade away into the background noise of political discourse, right where it belongs.
There’s nothing new about radical, kook conspiracy theories which attempt to illustrate how the Constitution is being subverted by our own government, and how our country is run by the corporations, for the corporations, with Presidents and others in political power merely their hand-picked minions. This is really all old news. It’s just that all of this “information” and “knowledge” used to have to be spread through various local meetings and printed newsletters which relied on the then-current power of “snail mail”. I know, I used to go to some of these meetings, and I used to recieve the newsletters. Hell, I even worked as a fundraiser for a “progressive” political action commitee in Indiana for a time. (Yes, there were folks who called themselves “progressive” before there was an internet!)
Same poppycock, different era.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:09 pmThere’s acertain, “masturbatory†quality to CT’s post, isn’t there?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Mostly imaginary, being ball-less, as all of these chickenhawk cowards are. imagine worshipping a coke-addled deserter like Bush, and you can see why their all such zeroes.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:09 pmThere’s acertain, “masturbatory†quality to CT’s post, isn’t there?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
As per usual….
July 30th, 2007 at 12:10 pmComment by CT Scantonocity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
TP, can we have another troll over here, please? This one appears to be stuck in an infinite STUPID loop.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:11 pmBack to the subject at hand;O’Hanlon wrote an article recently that, while he noted some progress, gives his assessment of what has not gone right. Here’s a quote from Michael O’Hanlon from June 10, 2007:
Alas, bad news still dominates. Overall levels of violence remain very high by the standards of other countries suffering from civil conflicts, and also in comparison with the Iraq of 2003 through 2005. Bombings by Sunni insurgents and Qaeda terrorists remain prevalent enough that the current restraint being exercised by most Shiite militias will be difficult to sustain. Cities like Kirkuk and Mosul remain tinderboxes. The economy remains stagnant and utility performance abysmal.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:12 pmAnd, perhaps worst of all, the Iraqi political system has failed to deliver any real progress on the core issues dividing Sunni from Shiite from Kurd, without which there will be no lasting peace.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Yeah, the fake intellectual, Mr. Monkey, sure enjoys repeating that line. Selective responding and evasion of debate, that’s the monkey’s way of life.
Mr. Monkey is tripping on his own banana peels.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:12 pmsure, bigfoot, that’s why 68% of the American people want Bush-Cheney impeached, because they’re just a few “liberal kooks”. that’s why ‘06 was such a huge victory for you, and why Bushco has to do everything in secret. You aqre one ignorant hick, with no regard for America or Americans. You’re part of the 20% fringe moron group that still believes what a born liar says, even though he deserted in wartime. See what happens during the ‘08 elections, as the 68% fringe destroys the Republican party for all time, and saves the world from your ignorance and bloodlust.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:13 pmHow long is TP going to leave up the troll mocking Fallen Soldier Pat Tillman?
These neocon scumbag trolls have no honor at all.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:15 pmOverall levels of violence remain very high by the standards of other countries suffering from civil conflicts, —–Hmmmm, wonder why that could be.
1. Sunni insurgents and
2. Qaeda terrorists
3. Shiite militias
4. A coalition of the willing.
Man, that sure is a lot of players. No wonder violence is higher as compared to other countries.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:15 pmCT Scantonocity sez:
Let me know when you actually have a debate to present, chippy, and I’ll be happy to respond to you.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:15 pmmmmm…still no facts from any of the trolls here.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:16 pmHow long is TP going to leave up the troll mocking Fallen Soldier Pat Tillman?
These neocon scumbag trolls have no honor at all.
Comment by Wayne — July 30, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Wayne,
They have been reported. Still waiting…
July 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pmWayne sez:
Until he mentions 9/11 or badmouths Israel. Those are the only real reasons posts get yanked here.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pmThese neocon scumbag trolls have no honor at all.
Comment by Wayne — July 30, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Right, and my comment over at the Karl Rove payraise thread just got vapped. Admittedly, it was tasteless, and crude, and involved sexual innuendo about Karl and certain visitors to the WH who shall go unnamed, BUT I didn’t mock a dead soldier.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pmTP, can we have another troll over here, please? This one appears to be stuck in an infinite STUPID loop.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — July 30, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
…coming from the monkey who’s only good for using the bold/italic features excessively, it seems.
And why, Mr. Monkey, would TP care to help you? You are, after all, banned, and you ignored TP’s will and changed your IP address. So the irony is, you’re an unwelcome guest while this “troll” technically isn’t.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:18 pmmmmm…still no facts from any of the trolls here.
Comment by Juan C — July 30, 2007 @ 12:16 pm
Trolls can only exist in fact-free zones.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:18 pmFacts would just slow down the hurling of insults.
SGT Higgins, don’t forget the mounting tensions between the Kurds and Turkey.
Fools rush in…………..
July 30th, 2007 at 12:20 pmThey have been reported. Still waiting…
Comment by Zooey — July 30, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
I reported them on Saturday. Nothing. No reply to my e-mail or anything. Starting to have serious doubts about the folks running this site.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:20 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity
Don’t take it personally, I got zapped too. I think the thread changed after it was up. It was weird.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:20 pmMan, that sure is a lot of players. No wonder violence is higher as compared to other countries.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 30, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
You also left out Blackwater and the oil companies, SGT.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pmI reported them on Saturday. Nothing. No reply to my e-mail or anything. Starting to have serious doubts about the folks running this site.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 30, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
If we don’t see any results soon, I’ll send them directly to Faiz. I’m sure he’ll be thrilled.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pm#123 — good post, Bigfoot. What’s interesting is the amount of influence they have on the Dem party. They have been successful in getting the Dem leadership to attack Bush to a point, but the attacks seem to be stopping short of impeachment. As well as stopping short of defunding the war.
Dems are trying to play these folks along without really doing what groups like TP want them to do. The Dems throw them bones with these silly investigations that never really go anywhere (the Scooter Libby conviction was a complete joke). But I think the folks here are starting to realize that they are being played for chumps.
Should be interesting to see what happens next!
July 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pmWhat’s one great thing about the trolls is that true bloggers here are honing their message and gaining great resources (i.e. facts) from other posters.
The trolls are pimples on lady liberty’s a$$.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:22 pmCT Scantonocity sez:
It was a joke, dolt…which was, quite predictably, lost on you.
What’s your point?
Yes, that is ironic, isn’t it? TP welcomes yammering, hate-filled idiots like yourself, while it attempts to silence me. Intriguing.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:22 pmDon’t take it personally, I got zapped too. I think the thread changed after it was up. It was weird.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 30, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Admittedly, what I said was tasteless… I know, I have a problem.
Hangs head… **sighs** But I’m working on it. I can change, no really!
July 30th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThe only way to see if Iraq is making any REAL progress towards political reconciliation is when W flies into Iraq-with more than a 5 minute “heads up” to the Iraqi leadership-and delivers a speech in the Iraq Parliament
Until car and suicide bombings drop to ZERO, until electricity for Baghdad is back to pre-invasion levels, until basic services like security, sanitation and health care are brought back to pre-invasion levels as well, then there’s NO real progress in Iraq
Now, you “dead-ender” trolls, prove everyone wrong by going to Iraq and wandering around outside the Green Zone just like the average Iraqis have to, lightly armed with no bodyguards
If you’re not willing to back up your rhetoric with real actions, then you brain-dead W sheeple are nothing but the most easily-debunked of claptrap-bleating hypocrites
Oh, and your blather here on these blogs, won’t do anything to bring the clearly-lost Iraq occupation any closer to “victory”, a “victory” your Glorious Leader W can’t even articulate
When the message goes from “We will stay the course until unconditional victory” to “the consequences of leaving will be disastrous”, it’s obvious even this Administration has given up on anything except passing yet another of W’s own messes onto someone else to clean up
Iraq’s a clearly lost cause, so we can begin withdrawing our forces now, or we can do it by helicopters via Green Zone rooftops, but we WILL be exiting Iraq in shame and total humiliation, as the Iraqis don’t seem more predisposed to letting the US maintain a permanent presence on their soil than the Vietnamese were
July 30th, 2007 at 12:23 pmSGT Higgins, don’t