Mainstream Media Catapult O’Hanlon And Pollack’s Pro-Escalation Propaganda
Mainstream Media Catapult O’Hanlon And Pollack’s Pro-Escalation Propaganda
Yesterday, the mainstream media warmly embraced Brookings analysts Michael O’Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack’s New York Times op-ed praising the escalation.
In the op-ed, O’Hanlon and Pollack call themselves “two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq.” The major cable TV networks uncritically referred to the analysts as “vocal critics” of the war, a statement that runs contrary to the analysts’ enthusiastic backing of the war since 2002.
Pollack and O’Hanlon have lept into the open arms of the mainstream media and have been given a forum to present their views largely without opposition. Together, they appeared on at least nine major mainstream media outlets in the past 24 hours.
A list of their media appearances:
| Network | Program | |
|---|---|---|
| Pollack | CBS | Evening News |
| CNN | Newsroom | |
| CNN | Situation Room | |
| MSNBC | Tucker | |
| NPR | Talk of the Nation | |
| O’Hanlon | CBS | Early Show |
| CBS | Evening News | |
| Fox News | Special Report | |
| MSNBC | Hardball | |
Of the stations mentioned above, only MSNBC’s Hardball forced the analysts to debate an opposing viewpoint. On Hardball, Center for American Progress fellow Brian Katulis called out O’Hanlon for writing a “propaganda piece” and “cherry-picking the facts on Iraq.”
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165 Responses to “Mainstream Media Catapult O’Hanlon And Pollack’s Pro-Escalation Propaganda”
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Let them spew their "we're winning" nonsense.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:17 amFacts and time will prove them wrong, just like so many times before.
The American public knows what's going on in Iraq, and no matter how many "pundits" or self proclaimed experts lie about it, the truth has a way of finding it's own current in the stream.
You'd almost think there was a conspiracy or something. These are the only two "liberals" out there? Or are these the only two that are "on message"? September? What's this September? We never said anything about September!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:19 amPollack views are needed now,approaching month of September.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:21 amThat's why the media accomodated his views.
Of course Pollack never worked or lived in Iraq;
he only visited Iraq.
Nobody in the media questioned him where did he get such information,by simply visitng Iraq.
Yes, the 'Surge' is fantastic. I don't know how we managed to live before it. Guaranteed to make you ten years younger! Trim those unwanted pounds off with the Surge!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:23 amNo doubt President George Karl Cheney picked these guys to spew the administration claptrap and the MSM lapped it up. Woof - woof.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:24 amtarazan, And I'm certain he mingled with the commoners, flak jacketless, and spent no time at all inside the relative safety of the Verdant District.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:25 amanyone who has any doubts whatsoever that we are being propagandized by our major media outlets only need look at the pervasiveness of these two in such a condensed period of time...
And, yes, I DO take it personally
July 31st, 2007 at 10:25 amOf course Pollack never worked or lived in Iraq;
he only visited Iraq.
Yah, unlike the outraged libs here who like to imagine themselves as Iraqi experts even though they have never lived in much less visited Iraq.
You pinheads are just pissed that a couple of your fellow libs strayed off the reservation, and of course you have to treat them now as you do Liebermann; psychotic hacks who dont know as much as you do. What else is new?
The DFL is hopefully starting to understand that the kooks who like to think of themselves as the 'base' are really just a bunch of hysterical twitterheads who manage to get mad at just about everything. Kooks like you.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:26 amthe big story on TODAY also...
what else to expect?
July 31st, 2007 at 10:27 am.
Watch Bill Moyers , "Buying the War" -- it talks about how the itrepid reporters are becoming a vanishing breed.
These pundits are paid puppets of this current Gang of Thugs occupying the White House (posing as an administration) --
We need more deep thrats, more intrepid reporters that will expose the truth behind the walls of the House of Thugs.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 amAhhh, the Surge. I feel so much better now that it's having such a positive effect. And my clothes are so much whiter!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 amHere's the link where Glenn Greenwald destroys O'Hanlon's and Pollack's BS.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/30/brookings/index.html
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 amKookified kookmongers who regularly get kookified over the kookiest things.
Kooks.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 amWatch Bill Moyers , “Buying the War†— it talks about how the intrepid reporters are becoming a vanishing breed.
These pundits are paid puppets of this current Gang of Thugs occupying the White House (posing as an administration) –
We need more deep throats, more intrepid reporters that will expose the truth behind the walls of the House of Thugs.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 amWe need more deep thrats (throats)sic
You already have all you need, they are called 'liberal men'.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:29 amWould love to know who's paying them off!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:29 amYou already have all you need, they are called ‘liberal men’.
What the f*ck is this supposed to mean?
July 31st, 2007 at 10:30 amTogether, they appeared on at least nine major mainstream media outlets in the past 24 hours.
Funny how quickly that little story about the murder and subsequent cover-up of a certain soldier with anti-Chimpy opinions got forgotten...
July 31st, 2007 at 10:31 amThis smells like Turd Blossom ...
July 31st, 2007 at 10:31 amI'm beginning to think that being pro-war is the new streaking. Used to, all you had to do was streak at a public event to get on television. Now it seems all you have to do is spew pro-war nonesense.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:32 amPiper sez:
Agreed. O’Hanlon and Pollack are really out there.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:32 amThe media is complicit. Restore the fairness doctrine!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:33 amI clicked over to Talk of the Nation and saw that Rebecca Roberts was involved in this propaganda. That's all one needs to know.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:33 amEverytime I hear Bush and his Left or Right Sycophants say "Progress", my stomach gets upset. There is no "Progress" in Iraq, and I wonder how much Pollack and O' Hanlon were paid to say this?
July 31st, 2007 at 10:35 amOPED should not be put on MSM, a good editor wouldn't let it happen. I expect bad journalism from Murdock, and getting the same way with CBS MSNBC.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:36 amPretty much any thing said by the white house, and the republicans is either wrong, or distorted, why are these guys allowed time to continue pushing a false message?
How is the "liberal mediaâ„¢" working?
July 31st, 2007 at 10:37 am#12...I wonder if Glenn Greenwald will get equal time on CBS to refute the claims of O'Hanlon and Pollack?
Yeah right! Another day without the Fairness Doctrine another day closer to Fascism.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:38 amjust a bunch of hysterical twitterheads who manage to get mad at just about everything. Kooks like you.
Comment by Piper — July 31, 2007 @ 10:26 am
So you think 80% of this country are hysterical twitterheads? That is the percentage who think the surge isn't working.
Go ahead and keep kidding yourself, like the rest of the Bush cultists. You won't know what hit you in the next election.
I wonder if Rudy will reach double digits of electoral votes....
July 31st, 2007 at 10:42 amNext we'll hear from Ben Gleck, touting these two as the absolute authority on all things Surgeâ„¢ and Iraq.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:42 amWhen one side is deceptive in their motives, even given equal time, it is not fair nor balanced.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:43 amOh, and since the Surgeâ„¢ is working so well, my hair has never been easier to manage!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:44 amInteresting chain of events:
Repubs invent claim of liberal Media
July 31st, 2007 at 10:44 amMultiple studies call claim into question. Studies are ignored.
Liberal Media becomes guiding myth
Myth justifies establishment of "Conservative Media"
Conservative Media becomes major outlet for distributing info
Distributing Info becomes propaganda
News exists no more.
What MapleStreet said.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:46 amOh, and since the Surgeâ„¢ is working so well, my hair has never been easier to manage!
Comment by RUCerious
I hear it removes wine and coffee stains from upholstery, too. I haven't verified that though. Could be ine of those urban legend thingies.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:47 amAnd yet another failure for Condi's travelling dumplomacy roadshow
Off the AP wire
SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt - The United States won no specific new promises of Arab help for struggling Iraq after a gathering Tuesday of several nations listed as recipients of an expanded aid and weapons package for friendly states in the region.
Iraq’s Arab neighbors repeated a general pledge to promote stability in Iraq, torn by more than four years of war and bitter sectarian divisions that have killed thousands and driven far more from their homes.
“I think we know what the obligations of the neighbors are,†Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, adding that Egypt and other U.S. allies are working to meet past promises of relief of Iraq’s heavy international debt, additional foreign aid and help tamping down violence inside Iraq.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:48 am~
She may know what they are, but getting them to agree seems to be way over her head...
Who ya' gonna' believe - these two fine, upstanding, American, impartial journalists, or your own lying eyes?
July 31st, 2007 at 10:48 amRUC, Sarge,
But does it remove Pork from one's assets? Stevens needs to know!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:48 amPollack is a player in the AIPAC spy scandal, enough said.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:49 amInteresting chain of events:
Comment by MapleStreet — July 31, 2007 @ 10:44 am
You can apply this same chain to other conservative myths, like intelligent design, the nonexistence of climate change, and the ever-present terrorism boogeyman. It still rings true.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:49 amThe media did (and still does somewhat) with Lieberman. They still believe he is liberal, completely contrary to his actions, and bring him out as the "unpartisan" expert.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:50 amRW radio has siezed on this and it's obviously coordinated.
They're all playing up the ridiculous angle that these two are somehow "seeing the light," totally ignoring the reality that this is just another piece reiterating their pro-war position all along.
Dennis Prager even called them "antiwar activists."
July 31st, 2007 at 10:50 amBut does it remove Pork from one’s assets? Stevens needs to know!
Comment by Zimzone
It probably COULD have, but it doesn't look like he applied it liberally enough. He blew it, plain and simple.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:50 amThe mainstream media is forced now to say the surge is working. This is bad news for the Dems.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:51 amThe mainstream media is forced now to say the surge is working. This is bad news for the Dems.
Comment by Dr. Dog, MD — July 31, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Actually it is bad news for the republicans, when they have to come in a couple months and say "oh by the way the whole surgeâ„¢ thing, uhh didn't actually work. Those guys you saw, well we planted that"
but nice try.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:53 amHammer the networks with e-mail. At least get them to report that Pollack was a cheerleader for the war and wrote The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq, which was essentially a roadmap for the invasion complete with ideas on how to sell it to the American people and the rest of the world. This guy is not a liberal or a Bush administration critic.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:53 amHe blew it, plain and simple.
Comment by SGT Higgins
Know how many snappy one-liners popped into my head with that one?
(None that will make it past the filters, I guarantee that!)
:P
July 31st, 2007 at 10:54 amreply to Dr. Dog:
Arf! Woof, woof, arf!
Now go lie down in the corner.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:56 amPiper promotes the puppet pussies.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:57 amEnablers, facilitating Petraeus and his denial of th ereality of freight trains... One of these days David Petraeus will look more closely at the light at the end of the tunnel... and realize it's an onrushing freight train surging up at him from behind (pictured). Hasn't happened yet, but it's only a matter of time. By the time the train runs over Petraeus, he will have served his purpose. Bush will have successfully passed on the forever war to a Democratic president. Unless. We. Stop. Him.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:01 amSpitzer's approval rating in New York has plummited after the scandal that has engulfed him there.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:02 amNote that Pollack is the husband of CNN hackette Andrea Koppel. Just like the new CNN star, Campbell Brown is the wife of CPA/Paul Bremer/Chimpy flakc-hack Dan Senor.
It's like one big incest filled gangbang with the neo-cons and the media.
-GSD
P.S. Great news, America is now working with Saddam's former goons!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:04 am"Note that Pollack is the husband of CNN hackette Andrea Koppel."
Two liberals.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:05 amYou'd think these guys just released a book or something. How can a crappy op-ed get you access to every network news show on TV in one weekend media blitz?
Obviously, when you have some propaganda to catapult you get to move straight to the front of the line.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:05 am"How can a crappy op-ed get you access to every network news show"
The media is now forced to report that the surge is working.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:06 amSomething tells me this all has something to do with Executive order 13303, aka the " Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq".
Suddenly, the news media is contradicting their OWN stories, and newscasts, and putting out White House propaganda and spin as news.
Something scared them.
Someone got to them.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:06 amThe mainstream media is forced now to say the surge is working. This is bad news for the Dems.
Comment by Dr. Dog, MD — July 31, 2007 @ 10:51 am
The capacity of Bush cultists to not get it is astounding. They share in common with their supreme leader a pathological inability to learn. Listen up, troll: 80% of Americans understand that the surge isn't working. And here is another trend for you to consider: a plurality of Americans no longer believe the media is liberal, and that number grows everyday because of this kind of media behavior.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:11 amThink Tankers [apparently people who live in sensory deprivation tanks , travel by osmosis, and use ESP to write flim-flammary] are hysterical....
July 31st, 2007 at 11:12 amWell, now that we all agree Iraq is fixed, I guess we can pack our $hit and leave.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:13 amHell, even their government is on vacation.
Spitzer’s approval rating in New York has plummited after the scandal that has engulfed him there.
Comment by Dr. Dog, MD — July 31, 2007 @ 11:02 am
Well isn't that interesting? Were Spitzer a Republican, his approval rating would rise. Thanks for pointing out that Democrats hold members of their party to some kind of minimal standard, whereas Republicans hold the rule of law in utter contempt.
Time to stop digging, Dog.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:14 amI don't know why anyone would believe what these two are saying.
They're liberals, for Christ's sake!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:16 am#1.
Let them spew their “we’re winning†nonsense.
Facts and time ALLREADY HAVE proven them wrong,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:17 am
I'm serious here. We saw stories all last week about the chaos in Iraq. The news was grim. All weekend there were bombings and disaster.
Then suddenly, Monday evening news with Katie Couric shows these two war PROPonents, calling them war critics, and talking about how they are now "turning around".
I remember Ohanlon. He was a war PROPONENT. And ADVOCATE of the war!
And here's Katie Couric on the CBS evening news, calling him a war critic!
SOMEONE got to the news station owners, and scared the hell out of them.
SOMEONE is squeezing them hard.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:17 amDr. Dog,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 amThese guys are the most hostile, narrow minded miserable individuals you'll ever come across.
They hate anything positive.
Hate is their life blood.
They accuse others of being Nazi, when in fact they're the Nazis!
What irony!
Kind of makes you wonder why Patraeus is taking so long when these guys can make an assessment in 8 days.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 amSince we are not buying what the MSM is passing off as information... how do they get sponsors?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 amI get my news on-line, so I don't even know who sponsors these various "news" programs.
Perhaps we should collect a list of the top 10 sponsors and start a letter writing campaign to get them to withdraw their commercials?
The mainstream media is forced now to say the surge is working. This is bad news for the Dems. Comment by Dr. Dog, MD
Bwahaha. So much for the liberal conspiratorial media eh?
LMAO.
BOOOOOO!!! Run for the covers Pavlovs Pet!!!
Ding Ding goes the bell. Salivate goes the Dog.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:19 amKind of makes you wonder why Patraeus is taking so long when these guys can make an assessment in 8 days.
Comment by Fools on the Hill — July 31, 2007 @ 11:18 am
This is the best comment of the day.
My condolences to the runners-up.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:19 amTHE FRICKEN WAR WAS ILLOGICAL, ILLEGAL, AND POORLY DESIGNED BY YOU CHRISTIAN LEADERS!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:20 am
No disguising the fact that we are not in a war, we are in the middle of an illegal occupation, the intent of which is to rob the people of Iraq from their natural resources.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:20 amTwo weeks ago Bush authors Executive Order 13303, threatening to seize property of "certain individuals" who can be deemed as working against the rebuilding efforts in Iraq.
Then, suddenly, the news changes from 6 months of coverage declaring Iraq a disaster, to "things are looking up".
:|
Something tells me Executive order 13303 plays a role in this..
July 31st, 2007 at 11:21 amWhy its not September yet!!
BWAHAHAA! The Friedman unit isn't up!!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:21 amIs John Burns [NYT] "cherry picking" as well?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/weekinreview/08burns.html?ei=5088&en=794a8c7902ff002b&ex=1341547200&partner=rssnyt&pagewanted=print
Sorry guys, as much as you don't want it to be true, there are some hopefull developments happening in Iraq.
Oh yeah, O’Hanlon And Pollack have been critics of the war despite TP's
lame attempt to make them into "neocons".
---------------------------------------------------------
Read the milblogs for some added perspective people.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:23 amSince we are not buying what the MSM is passing off as information… how do they get sponsors?
I get my news on-line, so I don’t even know who sponsors these various “news†programs.
Perhaps we should collect a list of the top 10 sponsors and start a letter writing campaign to get them to withdraw their commercials?
Comment by Nell — July 31, 2007 @ 11:18 am
what, you don't have need for any oil platforms?
or fighter jets? ... or soybeans? ... etc?
those guys are paying for their "news"...
July 31st, 2007 at 11:23 am...
Well isn’t that interesting? Were Spitzer a Republican, his approval rating would rise. Thanks for pointing out that Democrats hold members of their party to some kind of minimal standard, whereas Republicans hold the rule of law in utter contempt.
Time to stop digging, Dog.
Comment by VerbalKint
The Sunday NY Times op-ed page included a long apology to the public from Spitzer. This is a real apology, not the sort of smarmy pretense that would be the very best thing you might get from a Republic administration, although most likely you'd get nothing at all from them.
http://tinyurl.com/ypskk8
I say, hooray for Spitzer.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:23 amHa. Funny how the Hate America right is now complaining about those that hold Iraq up for scrutiny.
These Hate America right-wingers hate taxes that build our infrastructure, they hate the poor people in Louisiana and hope for them to die, they hate social programs in America and cite all kinds of phony rightwing studies, they hate Hollywood, they hate gays, they hate atheists, they hate hippies, they hate. the west coast, the east coast, the media, Ney York, Washington.
But they love Iraq. They love to see US troops die in Iraq, they love to see US dollars spent on bridges, soccer fields and water projects in Iraq.
Move to Iraq you America haters.
-GSD
July 31st, 2007 at 11:26 amGSD,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:27 amYou're full of hate!
You hate anyone that doesn't agree with you.
They accuse others of being Nazi, when in fact they’re the Nazis!
What irony! -Alf
Yo puppet head idiot box watcher.. According to your Goddess Anne Coulter Liberals are Godless and therefore cannot possibly be Nazis.
As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.†His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal -Adolph Hitler Mein Kampf
Idiot puppet Alf, use your own brain and stop parrotting that stoopit pundit prattle. Sheeshus.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:27 amNo offense Toliver, but the military blogs are read and censored, I have some doubts, that anything negative would show up on them.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:28 amThe weird thing is that "good" news from Iraq ultimately means we get to stay there, while "bad" news increases the likelihood that we'll actually get out.
Up is down.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:29 amJeebus Krist,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:29 amMany of the Nazi heirchy were anti-Christain and were Neo-Pagan.
Himmler was a follower of the Thule society.
You’re full of hate!
You hate anyone that doesn’t agree with you.
Comment by Alf — July 31, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I hate Alf.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:29 amEXECUTIVE ORDER 13303 says don't work against stabilization efforts in Iraq.
Suppose the White House, contacted station owners and told them that their coverage was one sided, and too negative, and therefore was working against stabilization efforts in Iraq?
Suppose they threatened to seize their assets if they didn't start reporting positive stories on Iraq?
Am I the only one who finds it odd that 2 weeks after Executive Order 13303 is issued, suddenly the news is calling two war advocates war critics, and tauting their bogus claims of progress in Iraq?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:29 amThey are going to make an Edward R. Morrow award to journlist. I just hope Ed Morrow doesn't hear about this in his grave. We don't have a deserving journalist worthy of his name.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:30 amAnd here's a tip on this so called "progress in Iraq".
It ain't progress if it takes MORE troops to reduce the killing.
When it takes LESS troops, THEN it will be progress.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:30 amJeebus Krist,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:31 amSo you guys ain't Nazi then maybe Stalists make more sence!
Stalin was an Atheist.
How about Mao?
Perhaps we should collect a list of the top 10 sponsors and start a letter writing campaign to get them to withdraw their commercials?
Comment by Nell
Public pressure on Lowes convinced them to pull their sponsorship of Bile O'Really. It works!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:32 amBARTLEBEE,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:32 amYou're a paranoid delusionalist!
Stop with your hate.
Let go!
Life is short!
Enjoy life!
Looks like they are now suppressing the US troop death reports. I have not seen any in a few weeks. Keith Obermann reported three last night and I didn't see it reported anywhere else in the news. This would fit right in to force "good news" on Iraq. Say tuned for the GOP reporting a drop in troop deaths soon.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:32 am"Perhaps we should collect a list of the top 10 sponsors and start a letter writing campaign to get them to withdraw their commercials?"
Stalinism at it's best!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:33 amSo you guys ain’t Nazi then maybe Stalists make more sence!
Stalin was an Atheist.
How about Mao?
Comment by Alf — July 31, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Now you get it.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:33 am“Perhaps we should collect a list of the top 10 sponsors and start a letter writing campaign to get them to withdraw their commercials?â€
Stalinism at it’s best!
Comment by Alf — July 31, 2007 @ 11:33 am
Back in the day, the Stalinists did this all the time!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:34 amEgreggious, Esq,
What is it about Stalinism that attracts you?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:35 amSo you admit that by accusing your opponents of Dictaorship, it's really just to cover up your Totalitarian goals?
One more time for the learning challenged.
It ain't progress if it takes MORE troops to reduce the killing.
:|
When it takes LESS troops, THEN you can call it progress.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:36 amJeebus Krist, So you guys ain’t Nazi then maybe Stalists make more sence! Stalin was an Atheist. How about Mao?
Comment by Alf.
Gee, idiot, lemme think, I was born in America and went to American Schools and sat beside idiots like you. Of course we didn't study or follow Stalists [sic] or Mao. Idiot.
This was a freedom operation in Iraq. Remember? To promote Democracy. To Free the people from an oppressive dictator? Isn't that what you were told? The hijackers were Saudis, Osama was a Saudi. IDIOT.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:36 am"Of course we didn’t study or follow Stalists [sic] or Mao. Idiot."
So why do you use Stalinistic tactics of hate and calling your opponents Fascists, when your side is even more intolerant and Totalitarian?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:38 amWhat is it about Stalinism that attracts you?
So you admit that by accusing your opponents of Dictaorship, it’s really just to cover up your Totalitarian goals?
Comment by Alf — July 31, 2007 @ 11:35 am
As to the first question, too hard.
As to the second, yes.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:39 amAlf, the Kool-Aid truck is coming down the street. Hurry up or you'll miss it.
-GSD
July 31st, 2007 at 11:39 amBy the way, only an absolute moron would say that using a grass roots campaign is 'Stalinism'.
These rightwing Bushole trolls needs some edumacation.
-GSD
July 31st, 2007 at 11:41 amWhat is it about Stalinism that attracts you?
So you admit that by accusing your opponents of Dictaorship, it’s really just to cover up your Totalitarian goals?
Comment by Alf
Put down your projectionist water color Idiot. Have you been reading that Idiot Tim LaHaye and his conspiratorial spooge?
You went from Nazi to Stalinist in 10 seconds with your insane imgination that your trying to pin on people you don't even know.
Looney Tune Idiot. We are Aliens from planet clare and live in the fifth dimension, are invisible, and make you have crazy thoughts about Mao and Stalin and Nazis and all other kinds of inane things. Idiot
July 31st, 2007 at 11:41 amFolks, please just ignore "Alf". He has nothing of substance to add, and from this question: "What is it about Stalinism that attracts you?", it's obvious that he isn't here for rational discourse.
Some trolls need to be refuted, and some just need to be ignored. Alf is clearly in the latter category.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:42 amReminder: Alf=The Joker
Don't give Alf any attention and eventually it will wander off.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:42 amYeah Alf, but Germany was an overwhelmingly Christian nation. I mean Bush just hired Muslim Zalmay Khalilzad, that doesn't make the US government Muslim.
Get some facts straight you semi-coherent asschapper.
-GSD
July 31st, 2007 at 11:42 amOkay, Idiot Alf, I just made that up. Really we are shape shifters like on Star Trek. Usually we turn into bats but sometimes chupacabras or reptilians.
You can see us out of the corner of your eye now and then scurrying around. BTW Don't piss us off. We may have to bite you and turn you into one of us. But at least you will live forever.
I am 4.6 billion years old.
Idiot.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:44 amReminder: Alf=The Joker
Comment by gummitch — July 31, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Wow. So, at any time, we can expect racist slurs, namejacking, and the defamation of dead Soldiers.
I can hardly wait.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:44 amGSD,
Germany was barley Christian.
Most intellectuals that supported the regime were members of the Neo-Pagan Thule society.
In fact the Nazis were trying to create a post Christian society.
Get your facts straight!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:45 amYou people shouldn't buy into the Commie,Stalin BS these clowns throw out. This is old stale talking points that don't even relate to modern times. Just ignore. This is a deception to throw you off the topic.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:47 amgummitch,
Who's Joker?
Is in't that the batman character?
I'm Alf, a different character.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:47 amThe Barley Christians. They didn't like the Jews very much.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:49 amAnyone who doesn't want to give up is in the pay of the Bush admin? Brah-ha-ha-ha-ha!
You liberals obviously can't make heads or tails of this!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:49 amO'Hanlon and Pollack put a lie to the commonly held belief that all liberals are smart.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:52 amTrip.
I have yet to come into a thread lately where anyone is talking about the topic of the thread.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:52 amSo why do you use Stalinistic tactics of hate and calling your opponents Fascists, when your side is even more intolerant and Totalitarian?
Comment by Alf
Your the one who came in here parroting that teevee sh_t. The you went from Hitler to Stalin. I have never advocated poisoning judges like Ann Coulter. I do not pray for become to become Ill and die, like Pat Robertsons neo-phytes, And I do not hope San Francisco gets nuked, like Oreilly.
I actually hoped that Roberts, whose political position I don't agree with, has a complete recovery. I sent my condolences to the Falwell family when Jerry passed away, I don't agree with hsi politics either.
I don't even hate George Bush.
So quite trying to project what YOU think my opinion is. YOU don't know and you look like an idiot when you go from Hitler to Stalin to Mao in effort to paint people into your flip flopping imagination.
And just so you know ALF I consider myself a Christian just not a crazy Apocolyptic one. That happened back in 70 AD. I do not hate Jews as many of you IMAGINE.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:53 amWell here, I'll say it again.
Last night on the CBS evneing news, Katie Couric pushed a story about so called "progress in Iraq". She referenced two guys, Pollack and Ohanlon, and identified them as former war critics.
The problem is they were not war critics. They were war advocates from the beginning. This story was already being pushed by AP, CNN, MSNBC and other news outlets. Now why did all the news outlets, suddenly, overnight, turn into FOX news?
Consider this.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 13303 says don’t work against stabilization efforts in Iraq.
Suppose the White House, contacted station owners and told them that their coverage was one sided, and too negative, and therefore was working against stabilization efforts in Iraq?
Suppose they threatened to seize their assets if they didn’t start reporting positive stories on Iraq?
Am I the only one who finds it odd that 2 weeks after Executive Order 13303 is issued, suddenly the news is calling two war advocates war critics, and tauting their bogus claims of progress in Iraq?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:53 amBARTLEBEE,
July 31st, 2007 at 11:55 amSo what can we do about it?
Please enlighten us and we the masses will follow you!
There is no "progress in Iraq".
If you have to send in MORE troops to reduce the violence, then its NOT PROGRESS.
Its just simply trying to keep a lid on it.
When it takes LESS troops to quiet the violence, THEN you can call it progress.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:55 amBARTLEBEE,
I'm a Marxist. So I'm with you!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:56 amLet's have a revolution and set up a people's Republic.
Will you lead us Great Chairman?
You liberals obviously can’t make heads or tails of this!
Comment by Kyle
Heres another dittohead idiot now. The liberal media [Myth] posits a study by a Democratic think tank and suddenly the media is no longer liberal!!
Talk about not making heads nor tails!
What is YOUR opinion Kyle. And I don't mean try to put your imagination on people you don't know. WHAT do YOU [Not Limbaugh, not Coulter, Not Oreilly, YOU] make of this study?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:57 amI’m a Marxist. So I’m with you!
Let’s have a revolution and set up a people’s Republic.
Will you lead us Great Chairman?
Comment by Komrade Al
Marx wrote Das Kapitalist ALF. And Guess what else, his name wasn't Marx.
IDIOT
July 31st, 2007 at 11:58 amBARTLEBEE sez:
No, BB...you're definitely not the only one.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:59 amTalking about it is what works. Talking about it changes things.
We talked about Rumsfeld, and they put him out to pasture.
We're talking about Gonzales, and now he's burying himself under oath.
We talked about the spying program, and now its under review.
We the people, of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect union, need to "talk" about those things that the corrupt members of our government, don't want us to talk about.
Because once a corrupt act is exposed in the light of day, good men will work to correct it.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:00 pmYou liberals obviously can’t make heads or tails of this!
Comment by Kyle — July 31, 2007 @ 11:49 am
We liberals aren't the ones who f**ked up Iraq, Afghanistan and New Orleans. You conservatives really should deport yourselves to a country that is more like you. North Korea would fit you perfectly. they ahte freedom and democracy just like you do.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pmWhat can we do about the topic of this thread?
In the short run, we can write to CBS and others who described these two as "vocal critics" and ask that, in the interests of accurate reporting, they look over the past writings and statements of these men, and present to their viewers a more balanced appraisal of their past views.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pmIf you have to send in MORE troops to reduce the violence, then its NOT PROGRESS.
When it takes LESS troops to quiet the violence, THEN you can call it progress.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pmBy that standard, Hillary has been an advocate from the beginning.
The truth is that after the months following the invasion, they have been socking it to the administration for years but have seen reason for some hope recently in Iraq.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pmBARTLEBEE,
July 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pmI will follow you and your glorious revolt!
You have the potential to be the greatest revolutionary leader since Mao!
We the People will follow!
THe news outlets now all suddenly sound like FOX news.
Why?
I'm not sure, but I am betting Executive order 13303 has something to do with it.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:04 pmAlf,
July 31st, 2007 at 12:05 pmBartlebee is a delusional fool.
He thinks he's this great fountain of wisdom, when in reality he's a conspiracy monger.
Don't expect him to lead any revolt soon.
He's a coward that hides behind a keyboard!
The truth is that after the months following the invasion, they have been socking it to the administration for years but have seen reason for some hope recently in Iraq.
Comment by olive oil — July 31, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
One more time for the homeschooled and inbred.
If you have to send in MORE troops to reduce the violence, then its NOT PROGRESS.
When it takes LESS troops to quiet the violence, THEN you can call it progress.
Idiot.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:06 pmBARTLEBEE,
July 31st, 2007 at 12:06 pmWhat can we do!
We must stop this!
Lead us to glory, great one!
We the Peons will follow you!
TP still links to their post from yesterday, even though it has been shown to be misleading? It's getting harder to believe that it was just an honest mistake. Could it have been deliberately misleading? ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 12:07 pmLook at the troll worm talking to himself under different handles.
He's all worked up.
Squirm little troll, squirm.
And I'll just keep saying things you don't want said.
:P
How's that?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:09 pmIf you have to send in MORE troops to reduce the violence, then its NOT PROGRESS.
When it takes LESS troops to quiet the violence, THEN you can call it progress.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:10 pmBARTLEBEE,
July 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pmYou are a great leader!
Please lead us to revolutionary glory!
The Barley Christians. They didn’t like the Jews very much.
Neither do your beloved Muslims! Comment by Alf
Idiot. George Soros who funds TP is Jewish [Dovish] is advocating an alternative to AIPAC. I could care less, really, about the 'convert by the sword wackos' there in Iraq. They would, if they ever got a nuke, probably nuke each other. If it wasn't for oil we probably wouldn't be in Iraq. BTW Jesus was hebraic and MADE Judah betray him.
IDIOT.
BARTLEBEE,
What can we do!
We must stop this!
Lead us to glory, great one!
We the Peons will follow you!
Comment by Komarde Alf
I can see you have no debatable points and have resorted to...well idiotology. Is this the best you can do? BTW I think you mean PIONS.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:17 pmAlf: "Germany was barley Christian."
"Many of the Nazi heirchy were anti-Christain and were Neo-Pagan."
"Get your facts straight!"
Adolph Hitler, 1941: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"
July 31st, 2007 at 12:18 pmProgress is progress Bartlebee. Sunnis turing against AQ is progress. Shi'a turning against radical militias is progress. The Iraqi army improving is progress.
Google up John Burns from the NYT for more.
Go to Michael Yon's blog for even more.
Why do you want us to lose? This wouldn't be for partisan political BS now would it?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:18 pmOn NPR when Pollack was spewing yesterday someone called in and asked the question: You've been wrong about everything so far, why should we believe you now? Pollack was glib - of course people may say that, things don't always go as planned, blah, blah, blah. And of course Ms. Roberts never asked him any tough questions.
Bill Moyers and some folks at McClatchy seem to be the only honest journalists left.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:19 pmI will be so glad when school starts back and the immature know it all teenage TV dittohead trolls will get back on the short buses and whisked away to public education. =P
July 31st, 2007 at 12:20 pmAdolph Hitler: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so..."
July 31st, 2007 at 12:22 pmIn the short run, we can write to CBS and others who described these two as “vocal critics†and ask that, in the interests of accurate reporting, they look over the past writings and statements of these men, and present to their viewers a more balanced appraisal of their past views.
Comment by Egreggious, Esq. — July 31, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Write CBS if you feel the need. But if you fail to investigate O'Hanlon and Pollack's writing beyond what TP quoted, CBS will assume you are uninformed and dismiss your letter. ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 12:23 pmHimmler was a member of the Thule society!
July 31st, 2007 at 12:23 pmPions [PI Mesons], ALF, just so you know, are unstable and decay rapidly and why I used that word to apply to you.
Idiot.
I have work to do. Later taters.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:24 pm"...I consider myself a Christian..."
Comment by JEEBUS KHRIST— July 31, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Not likely. ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 12:26 pmAdolph Hitler: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so…â€
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 31, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
Once again, rip, he was no more a Christian than you are. ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 12:29 pmTrip.
I have yet to come into a thread lately where anyone is talking about the topic of the thread.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 31, 2007 @ 11:52 am
Because a mere two or three individuals is grounding all conversation on this entire website. Every single time a subject hits home, or a post hits home, the nonsensical posts have a "Surge" of their own.
As for your theory on Executive Order 13303? I think you are likely correct. It is either that, or they once again leaned on the various media ownerships with reminders of the blackmail material they have, what, with the whole spying on everyone in the nation with a program the courts have declared illegal fiasco. Else it was a combination, "We have these pictures and correspondences from you, sir, remember? Oh, and by the way? Didn't you read this Executive Order. Say exactly what we tell you to say, or we seize all of your assets. Don't force our hand."
The timing is extraordinary. The polls all disagree with the admin and the surge, the raw numbers disagree, many critics have been filtering out from the administration and finally starting to tell us what goes on behind the scenes in this administration, and the Pat Tillman case had started to gain traction. Public opinion and the tenor of the news have both been increasingly negative towards the war. Suddenly, and in news cycle terms EXTREMELY SUDDENLY, the building sense that the sleeping giant is awakening is being forcefully swept under the table. Or, at least, that is what they are attempting.
Even if all this shift in the news accomplishes is suppressing the Tillman case (again), it is too much damage to our nation. It is unacceptable.
We must let the MSM know, forcefully ourselves, that the voice of We the People is louder than the voice of Bush the Blackmailer.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:32 pmSame trolls, different names.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:35 pmModeration,
July 31st, 2007 at 12:42 pmI was a follwer bof Bartlebee.
However you are more revolutionary.
I propose you lead us!
[...]
Am I the only one who finds it odd that 2 weeks after Executive Order 13303 is issued, suddenly the news is calling two war advocates war critics, and tauting their bogus claims of progress in Iraq?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 31, 2007 @ 11:29 am
nope...
i'm sure our congress is feeling the pressure also...
what to do?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:47 pm...
Adolph Hitler: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so…â€
upright left: "Once again, rip, he was no more a Christian than you are. ;)"
Adolph Hitler: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter"
Adolph Hitler: "For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
July 31st, 2007 at 12:59 pmTalking about it is what works. Talking about it changes things.
[...]
We the people, of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect union, need to “talk†about those things that the corrupt members of our government, don’t want us to talk about.
Because once a corrupt act is exposed in the light of day, good men will work to correct it.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 31, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
YES!!!
thank you...
except sometimes i think members of our gov
DO want us to talk about these things...
they need to know that we are behind those efforts...
not completely cynical... yet...
July 31st, 2007 at 1:12 pm.
Adolph Hitler: “For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.â€
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — July 31, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
He was a Christian because he said he was a Christian? Haven't we been through this before? Ok, rip, say "I'm a Christian." See, it didn't work for you either. You aren't a Christian any more than Hitler was. ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 1:45 pmHe was a Christian because he said he was a Christian?
Comment by upright right — July 31, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Well we're supposed to beleive you guys are Christians just because you say you are.
If its gute enough for der Fuhrer its gute enough for you, right?
July 31st, 2007 at 1:59 pmBesides, God knows no one would figure it out by your works.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:01 pmupright left: "He was a Christian because he said he was a Christian?"
OK, critical thinking - Hitler himself said he was a christian and you, someone else, say he wasn't. We don't know you, but we do have Hitler's own writing - about himself.
On top of that, the critical issue with regard to being a christian these days is ALWAYS the words you say. The "born again" christian only has to say or "testify" in front of a congregation that he has "accepted Jesus as his personal savior" to become a christian. If he commits acts that are not what the congregation thinks are "christian," all he has to do is say more words, in this case an apology, to retain his christian status. Nuns rushed to television cameras after Timothy McVeigh was executed to say he had apologized and was now in heaven. 168 dead against one apology taken by Nuns - simply words.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:04 pmOh, and upright left, why would Hitler be so intent on establishing a "reich bishop" and a state religion if he were not, as he maintained, a christian? And how about the Pope who supported Hitler and his various "programs?" I'm sure you would agree that this Pope was christian.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:09 pmCol Ripper.
He's a rube.
Anyone who's studied the topic in the least would know Die Tausend Jahr Reich was literally identified by the Germans with the 1000 year reign of Christ. Many tried to identify Hitler himself as Christ, or a Messiah of sorts.
Germany was a Christian land, which anyone who knows the history of Germany knows (Hint to the trolls: Think Lutheran) and both catholicism and protestant churches thrived in Germany.
The fact that Hitler was a Christian is not historically in question.
He was a Christian. Just not a very good one.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:12 pmAnd then there's the tired old cannard that the left "worship Stalin."
Grover Norquist had a portrait of Stalin over his desk for years. He and many neocons admire Stalin for the party discipline he imposed in the Soviet Union. So, this is just more silly projection from fact-challenged conservatives. Nobody of any note on the left has ever "worshipped Stalin."
July 31st, 2007 at 2:13 pmAnd its noteworthy that today, that a former member of the Nazi party has now become Pope, the head of the Catholic Church.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:14 pmBartlebee: "And its noteworthy that today, that a former member of the Nazi party has now become Pope, the head of the Catholic Church."
I can't get over how much he looks like Emperor Palpatine.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:26 pmHitler started out a Christian, but then objected traditional religions later. This is basic history.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:04 pmToliver: "Hitler started out a Christian, but then objected traditional religions later. This is basic history."
Sorry, but Adolph Hitler wrote this to Gen. Gerhard Engel in 1941, only 4 years before his death: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"
Look, Toliver, the Catholics and a number of Protestant churches from Germany have been trying to duck this compliance they had with Hitler and his "final solution" to wipe out the Jews for a long time now. Some people believe the Holocaust to simply be the culmination of centuries of pograms, forced expulsions, executions and torture dealt the Jews over the centuries in Europe, beginning with the original lie that it wasn't really the Romans who executed their own Savior, it was the Jews. Yes, somehow, even though crucifying prisoners was their execution of choice, and they had done it to tens of thousands before, and tens of thousands after, this one special time, they decided to stand down and let the subjugated masses make the decision. It's a big lie and it's why Jews have been screwed for centuries.
July 31st, 2007 at 6:05 pmIt is interesting to watch the right wingers try to derail any discussion on this website. They seem to use the following techniques:
1) Insult the liberals (in an attempt to make liberals go on the defensive)
2) Claim that Liberals worship: Satan/Mao/Stalin/Osama Bil Laden/NAMBLA/etc
3) Accuse liberals of doing whatever it is that the right wing is accused of ("I'm not a hate monger, Liberals are hate mongers!!")
4) Barrage the message board with nonsense messages, which endlessly repeat themselves (so that readers will give up reading the thread because it is too hard to wade through all of the garbage)
Kind of makes you wonder if they are all being paid....
July 31st, 2007 at 7:32 pmCNN's Michael Ware (there since before the Iraq invasion) reported Tuesday night on 360 that the optimism is a charade, that sectarian divisions are well established and aren't going away anytime soon. He also said there have been lots of payoffs to our supposed enemies to lay low. He basically ripped Michael O’Hanlon and Kenneth M. Pollack a new one.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:58 pmWare is pro muslim extremist and horrible anti american.
August 1st, 2007 at 3:59 pmTo be honest I have been disturbed by a number of the reactions to Pollack and O'Hanlon. Not necessarily to their promoting the surge, but to the vitriol shown against them and how they have been called "war critics."
Yes, these scholars were for the war in Iraq, as a good deal of both liberal and conservative lawmakers and intelligentsia were in March 2003. Tony Smith's new book A Pact with the Devil offers an enormous amount of evidence for that fact, but they also have been critical of the handling of the war. If you look at both of their articles and books going back over the last two years, both O'Hanlon and Pollack have often criticized the Bush admin for handling the war.
http://www.brookings.edu/index/scholarwork.htm?show=all;scholar=O%27Hanlon*Michael*E.*
http://www.brookings.edu/index/scholarwork.htm?show=all;scholar=Pollack*Kenneth*M.*
It is certainly true that O'Hanlon and Pollack have advocated the U.S. stay in Iraq to the chagrin of some here and even to myself, but it is disingenuous to accuse these people of being nothing but schills for the Bush administration and not "war critics."
Argue against the claims they make, but don't resort to name-calling or conspiracy theory. It debases the left's cogent arguments against continuing the war.
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:45 am