Rumsfeld to appear before Congress tomorrow.
The House Oversight Committee reports that in a late breaking development, Donald Rumsfeld will appear tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. for a hearing entitled “The Tillman Fratricide: What the Leadership of the Defense Department Knew.” The following witnesses will testify:
The Honorable Donald Rumsfeld
Former Secretary of DefenseGen. Richard B. Myers (Retired)
Former Chair, Joint Chiefs of StaffGen. John P. Abizaid (Retired)
Former Commander, U.S. Central CommandGen. Bryan Douglas Brown (Retired)
Former Commander, U.S. Special Operations CommandLt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger, Jr. (Retired)*
(supboena issued/not confirmed)
Former Commander, U.S. Army Special Operations Command
A previous witness list had suggested Rumsfeld would not attend.
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Oh great. I can’t wait to watch that cocky prick Rumsfeld condescend to everyone and anyone who dares question his decisions and what he knew, and when he knew it.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:08 pmGood luck with that.
Something tells me nothing’s going to come of this hearing.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:09 pmI thought the Bush regime already had a retired fall guy for this.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:09 pmReady?
Everybody nbow….
“I don’t remember,
I don’t recall
I got no memory
of anything at all….”
Repeat till hearing closes & have a nice day!
That’s a theme song this admin could really get into .
July 31st, 2007 at 8:12 pmThe Honorable Donald Rumsfeld
Former Secretary of Defense
I think you can find that honor in in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:14 pmYou go with the cover-up you have, not the cover-up you want.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:17 pmThey are trying to head this off at the pass. They have a fall guy. Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger failed to follow procedures. Lemme guess. One of those procedures was to notify his superiors.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:17 pmOne or two more “I don’t recalls” and we should be able to impeach Bush merely for appointing such a plethora of incompetent nitwits.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:21 pmI do miss the “honorable” Mr. Rumsfeld, and his fantastic leadership and knowledge.
The surge needs a Rumsfeld!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:21 pmJust for the entertainment value, when Rumsfeld responds “I don’t know” to a question, I’d like to see a Congressman ask “Is that a known unknown or an unknown unknown?”. And if Rumsfeld starts to ask and answer his own questions, I hope a Congressman reminds him none too gently that they are asking the questions.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:21 pmAnswer: “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”
July 31st, 2007 at 8:23 pmrumsfeld should be in prison.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:24 pmI don’t understand why they don’t just subpoena the records. Then find Bush in contempt of congress if he won’t allow them to be delivered. This is a perfect test case for his so-called executive privilege defense. What can records of the investigation into Pat Tillman’s murder have to do with the President of the United States?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:24 pmHum…..
i highly doubt tillman was murdered. that’s absurd.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:25 pmcakewalk,
July 31st, 2007 at 8:28 pmTillman’s mom seems to think otherwise.
Testimony is untidy. It’s a messy thing.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:28 pmi highly doubt tillman was murdered. that’s absurd.
Comment by cakewalk my ass
Theres only one way to know. You might wanna ask the WH to get out of the way.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:29 pmI still don’t get how EP applies in this case. Why isn’t anyone even challenging that? This would be a perfect case to take to court and get this broad use of EP overturned.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:29 pmi highly doubt tillman was murdered. that’s absurd.
Comment by cakewalk my ass — July 31, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
It does seem fantastical. But what’s up with this Exec Privilege cover-up, I’d like to know. Something weird there.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:29 pmThe scandal is not whether he was murdered or not, but the failure to investigate as recommended by the medical examiners. Army leadership has lost its moral compass, not surprising when the civilian leadership has none, and it’s the cover-up’s that kill you!!!!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:29 pmI would LIKE to highly doubt that Tillman was murdered but, unfortunately, all the labeling of opposition to BushCo as “unpatriotic”, support for torture, lack of true concern for the safety of our troops, and other truly absurd conditions make it increasingly difficult to rule out ANY immoral activity by this administration and its supporters. Just the fact that executive privelege is invoked, again, raises the suspicions incredibly.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:31 pm“i highly doubt tillman was murdered. that’s absurd.
Comment by cakewalk my ass”
“my ass”, that’s where your head is. When someone is shot three times in the head from 10 yards away and then the people at the scene burn your uniform, it sounds a lot like murder to me.
If Mr. Bush has nothing to hide, why is he refusing to allow the release of Pat Tillman’s records? And what in the hell does Executive Privilege have to do with Pat Tillman?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:32 pmIt.makes.no.sense.for.shrub.to.claim.EP.regarding.the.death.of.a.Soldier. Slow enough for you trolls??
July 31st, 2007 at 8:34 pmI am convinced Pat Tillman died via a hit. Following is a link for force ministries…….
here
Think about this…the Air Force Academy and Dobson’s infiltration.
And the special forces general that comes to mind is Lt. Gen. Jerry Boykin who was under Rummy’s main man..think Steven Carbone was his name…… Religious fanatics……….
July 31st, 2007 at 8:35 pmAwww puhleaze!
Can you give the “I’m a leftie, so there’s got to be a conspiracy theory here some where” retort a rest!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:35 pm@ 14. Why is it absurd? Fragging has happened in every war. It’s happened in Iraq, as well as attempted fragging. Guess how many shots to the head Tillman received? Three. From how far? 10 yards. 10 frigging yards. Guess how many shots a burst fire M16 has? Three…
July 31st, 2007 at 8:36 pmIt is Henry Waxman’s hearing. Waxman is Smart and tenacious. He may not get to the bottom of the Tillman Coverup, but he is very good at framing the issues , and will underline, rhetorically, those questions that WEREN’T answered. I’m thinking This will stay in the news.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:39 pmQ: Mr. Rumsfeld, when did you first learn of Pat Tillman’s death?
A: I don’t recall. Afterall, there are knowns and unknowns and known unknowns… it is unknown when I first learned of it.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:39 pmYep. Subpoena the records. And if Bush claims executive privelege, charge him with accessory to murder after the fact.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:40 pmThe got one thing wrong: they call him the “Honorable” Donald Rumsfeld. There’s nothing honorable about this shit-stained crook.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:41 pmThe Honorable Donald Rumsfeld?!? I think I just puked a little…
July 31st, 2007 at 8:41 pmComment by Doc Rock — July 31, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
and
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — July 31, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
These post sum up for me what is the most important here.
It seems the Bush is just covering up things cause that is the only thing he knows how to do.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:42 pmSorry, CC dEvil, there aren’t any easy answers, and evading the issue, which is all you traitors want to do, isn’t going to work so well for you either. Here’s a line for you: what are they so afraid of, if nothing is wrong? Why are they covering up? why did they burn the diary? The uniform? If they’re innocent, as you claim, they have nothing to fear. But, they are very afraid, therefore, not innocent. Sweet of you to defend the murder of a top soldier, though.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:42 pm“Can you give the “I’m a leftie, so there’s got to be a conspiracy theory here some where†retort a rest!
Comment by C.C.Deville”
Ok, then explain why Bush is refusing to release Pat Tillman’s records by claiming Executive Privilege. And explain to us what Executive Privilege has to do with the death of a soldier.
You think you are such a know it all. Explain this to us then.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:42 pmCan you give the “I’m a leftie, so there’s got to be a conspiracy theory here some where†retort a rest!
Comment by C.C.Deville
Theres only one way to shut us up, CC. Lets see the evidence and shut us up. Hows that?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:43 pm“Can you give the “I’m a leftie, so there’s got to be a conspiracy theory here some where†retort a rest!
Comment by C.C.Devilleâ€
Your not talking about normal people here with your average morals. These are the abu ghraib designers, the people who would lie to a nation to start wars..
July 31st, 2007 at 8:44 pmI wonder if Rummy will actually say anything of substance?
Should be interesting…
July 31st, 2007 at 8:44 pm“Never said that,” Rumsfeld said, according to the official Pentagon transcript. “Never did. You may remember it well, but you’re thinking of somebody else. You can’t find anywhere me saying anything like either of those two things you just said I said. I may look like somebody else.”
Rumsfeld answering to a question about what he thought the invasion would “be welcomed by the majority of the civilian population of Iraq.”
Honor. Yep.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:45 pmOkay, where’s the proof that Tillman was executed?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:45 pmHows that, Juan?
Zoo!!!
Thanks for the link. And I will be writing you soon. I dont forget. :}
July 31st, 2007 at 8:45 pmHows that, Juan?
Comment by C.C.Deville
In the records, CC. Lets see the records, shall we? Then dance around me all you want.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:46 pmEveryone in that administration is a proven multiple liar. Every last one of them. the remaining 25% who still listen to them are the sickest bunch of idiots on the planet. Al Qaeda has more honor than Bush followers. and far more courage.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:47 pmHi Jua, looking forward to it. :)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:48 pmThe proof of Tillman’s murder is forthcoming when an investigation is completed. Just as in any murder, proof follows investigation. CC is one stupid dude.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:49 pmSorry **Juan**
July 31st, 2007 at 8:49 pmWell, I guess we be at a stalemate, huh Juan?
so, with no proof, we must speculate, judge, and sentence, eh?
Kind of like Barry Bonds.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:50 pmWhat is Barry guilty of again?
Proof please, not “speculation”
“Okay, where’s the proof that Tillman was executed?
Hows that, Juan?
Comment by C.C.Deville “
Jesus you sure are dumb. That’s why they are trying to get the records, to see if there is any proof that he was murdered.
That’s how immoral idiots like you and your neocon friends operate. Where is the proof that Bush has committed a crime. There’s no proof because Congress can’t get anyone to testify and can’t get a hold of records or e-mails. Therefore, to you, Bush is not guilty of a crime. And now you are using the same logic in Pat Tillman’s death.
So, idiot, please tell us why Bush is refusing to release the records if no crime was committed (in Pat Tillman’s case and in every other case where he is obstructing justice by claiming executive privilege).
July 31st, 2007 at 8:50 pmNothing, I repeat, Nothing Honorable about the worst SecDef Dirtbag Rumsfeld.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:51 pmWhat is Barry guilty of again?
Proof please, not “speculationâ€
Comment by C.C.Deville — July 31, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Who cares?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:51 pmthe known is unknown.. if known at all…somewhere east, west, south or maybe north… I don’t know because I don’t know because I don’t know.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:52 pmComment by C.C.Deville — July 31, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Look we do not know little
The only way to end any speculation is to impeach the Bush administration. It is that simple. Because as long as they remain in power we will not be able to get to the truth about any thing. Be it Tillman, Plamegate, Attorney Gate and on and on and on… (it is a big list)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:53 pmGee billobaggins,
where wuz your outrage when Clinton used the “Executive Privilege” ploy for a record number of times?
(birds chirping)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:54 pm#46 No CC… we want to investigate and not be obstructed by this administration and its current and former lackeys. Their obstruction of investigations is more than troubling and does, to most rational people, indicate that their is possible culpability in at a minimum, how the investigation of Tillman’s death was handled.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:54 pm@ me at 51
should be we know little (sorry)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:54 pmComment by C.C.Deville — July 31, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
I sorry but that is the worst argument you could have made. Every crimminal in jail would love to use that. He did so its ok. That argument is pro-anarchy .
July 31st, 2007 at 8:56 pmCC Deville = The Joker
Cut him loose.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:57 pmCut him loose.
Comment by Zooey — July 31, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
Already reported to TP.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:58 pmTillman was a safety with the Arizona Cardinals in the National Football League when he passed up a multimillion-dollar contract to join the Army in 2002, after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
He was a corporal with the service’s elite Rangers when he was killed during an ambush in an Afghan mountain pass in April 2004.
The Army posthumously awarded Tillman the Silver Star, the third-highest U.S. combat decoration, announcing that he had been killed leading a counterattack. But it later admitted that officers in his chain of command knew almost immediately that he had been shot accidentally by his own comrades.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:59 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/ 2007/ US/ 07/ 31/ tillman.friendly.fire.letter.ap/ index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ 2007/ US/ 07/ 31/ tillman.probe/ index.html?eref=rss_topstories#
THERE IS YOUR PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I luv you guyz! You is so…..hypocritical.
and Bush and company are. not. breaking. any. laws. by. using. Executive. Privilege.
Got it?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:59 pmGood.
Next batta
Sorry **Juan**
Comment by Zooey
Oh, you can call me whatever you want… but some stud name would be better. ;)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:59 pmAhhhh, CC. There it is, a visit to TP wouldn’t be complete without some neocon ‘ho pulling the ‘but, but, but….Clinton’ screed outta their ass. How about answering the question, which was I believe, what possible motive would bush have to be claiming executive privilege in a case like this?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:00 pmComment by Egreggious, Esq. — July 31, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Cool. :)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:00 pmComment by C.C.Deville — July 31, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
But you just complained that Clinton did the same thing?
One set of rules for the RW and another for the rest of us.
Nice work Troll
Sorry I will stop.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUIsQo4K70Y
Rufus Wainwright song. Try and listen to the lyrics; the imagery doesn’t really do it justice.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pmOh, you can call me whatever you want… but some stud name would be better. ;)
Comment by Juan C — July 31, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
“Juan” isn’t studly? How about Viggo? :)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pmand Bush and company are. not. breaking. any. laws. by. using. Executive. Privilege.
Comment by C.C.Deville
First, there was our conspiracy…then it turned out that there were no proofs about Tillman´s murder, then Executive Privilege is not breaking the lwa… uh…someones is getting close to the cliff´s edge.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:02 pmNO
I never complained when Clinton did it.
I’m not complaining now that Bush does it.
Geez, can it get any simpler?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:02 pmHow about Viggo? :)
Comment by Zooey
Hahaha. BTW, he is from Argentina. *bowing*
July 31st, 2007 at 9:02 pmComment by Quadrajet — July 31, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
Hey, QJ. :)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:03 pmDon’t know if anyone else already said this.. Someone suggested it was Tillman’s mom who thought it was murder. It wasn’t just the family:
http://www.cbsnews.com/ stories/ 2007/ 07/ 27/ national/ main3104125.shtml
“(AP) U.S. Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former professional football player’s death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
“The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described,” a doctor who examined Tillman’s body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away. ”
Why was this not followed up on? Why were his gear, clothing, and personal diary burned right afterwards? Why was there a massive coverup? If it went down like they said, then why go to all this trouble?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:03 pmIt is the right thing to do now going back and asking all the hard questions and not stopping until they get all the real answers.
Hahaha. BTW, he is from Argentina. *bowing*
Comment by Juan C — July 31, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
That’s perfect!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 pmIs a blanket use of Executive Privilege in the best interests of this country? Does the Executive Branch not have to tell the people anything at all?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 pmViggo? :)
Comment by Zooey
If it’s Viggo Mortensen I’ll SO sign up.
:)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 pmHey Zooey! Good to see you my friend.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pm#
14!, i highly doubt tillman was murdered. that’s absurd.
Comment by cakewalk my ass —
#Awww puhleaze!
Can you give the “I’m a leftie, so there’s got to be a conspiracy theory here some where†retort a rest!
Comment by C.C.Deville —
Tillman was a safety with the Arizona Cardinals in the National Football League when he passed up a multimillion-dollar contract to join the Army in 2002, after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
He was a corporal with the service’s elite Rangers when he was killed during an ambush in an Afghan mountain pass in April 2004.
The Army posthumously awarded Tillman the Silver Star, the third-highest U.S. combat decoration, announcing that he had been killed leading a counterattack. But it later admitted that officers in his chain of command knew almost immediately that he had been shot accidentally by his own comrades.
http://www.cnn.com/ 2007/ US/ 07/ 31/ tillman.friendly.fire.letter.ap/ index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ 2007/ US/ 07/ 31/ tillman.probe/ index.html?eref=rss_topstories#
THERE IS YOUR PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by GoTFreedumb? — July 31, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
July 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pmTHERE IS YOUR PROOF!!!!!!
Hey, true!!!
Nice reading you. :)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:08 pmOkay, smartie pantz of the left.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:08 pmIf you feel so wrong, DO SOMETHING
or your heroed congress approval ratings will plummet to single digits (if it’s not already there)
WHERE IS RYAN NEAT AND UNCLE HO WHEN YOU NEED THEM
July 31st, 2007 at 9:10 pmT.P. You really messed up when you banned them.
still waiting a banning from you to me.!
Hey Zooey! Good to see you my friend.
Comment by Quadrajet — July 31, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
Staying cool down there in that garish belt buckle state? :D
July 31st, 2007 at 9:10 pmIf you feel so wrong, DO SOMETHING
Comment by C.C.Deville — July 31, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Will do.
Toooooodles.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:11 pmCOMMENT #77!C.C.Deville
July 31st, 2007 at 9:11 pmSEE COMMENT # 75!GoTFreedumb?
Is a blanket use of Executive Privilege in the best interests of this country? Does the Executive Branch not have to tell the people anything at all?
Comment by Egreggious, Esq. — July 31, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
No, and no.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:12 pmHi Juan.
:))
C.C.D.-(Interesting initials…….)
If you feel so wrong, DO SOMETHING
Ummm, that’s why we’re having these clowns testify tomorrow. Sounds proactive to me.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:13 pmUmmm, that’s why we’re having these clowns testify tomorrow. Sounds proactive to me.
Comment by trueblue — July 31, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
In Trollie Land, you’re not supposed to investigate until you have ALL the evidence.
*eyes crossed*
July 31st, 2007 at 9:16 pm@ 80. XP
July 31st, 2007 at 9:18 pmHEY! I HAVEN,T SEEN SPUD IN A LONG LONG TIME.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:21 pmHI SPUD.
In Trollie Land, you’re not supposed to investigate until you have ALL the evidence.
*eyes crossed*
Comment by Zooey
How silly of me, Zooey.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:22 pm:}
Army censures general for ‘deception’ after Tillman death
* Story Highlights
July 31st, 2007 at 9:23 pm* Army secretary says Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger provided false official statements
* Grade review panel to consider whether to reduce Kensinger’s rank
* Army secretary says there was no attempt to cover up the facts of Tillman’s death
* Next Article in U.S. »
Reagan had 132 members of his administration convicted of felonies, a record that may be broken by Bush. Clinton? zero.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:23 pmOh, and don’t investigate because everyone is innocent until they’re proven guilty.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:24 pmHow silly of me, Zooey. :}
Comment by trueblue — July 31, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
Really, how can it be so hard for the Moronic Trolls to figure out what hearings are for?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:24 pmReagan had 132 members of his administration convicted of felonies, a record that may be broken by Bush. Clinton? zero.
Comment by ronjazz — July 31, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Clinton didn’t do it too?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:24 pmTo paraphrae Leona Helmsely, before she went to prison, “hearings are for the little people”. These troll wingnuts are too stupid to care about the law.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:26 pmOh, and don’t investigate because everyone is innocent until they’re proven guilty.
Comment by Egreggious, Esq. — July 31, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
Hey, I know a couple of criminal defense lawyers who will be thrilled! Hell, I’ll back to work for the court clerk, and close out all those pesky felony files.
Party!!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:26 pm#
Oh, and don’t investigate ?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:27 pmDon,t you mean” they are” assumed “innocent.?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:28 pmWell, at last we’ve heard one defense of Executive Privilege from the trolls.
Clinton did it too.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:28 pmClinton’s “crimes” were created by a right wing driven to a jealous frenzy by his competence and sky-high approval ratings. The only way to bring him down was to hire whores like Paula Jones and Linda Tripp, both on the repig payroll, both miserable, ego-driven, ugly failures. All for nothing, as he was acquitted, and is well-loved throughout the world, unlike the poisonous Bush, who can’t even walk among his own people.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:29 pmIn a heroic stand for the beleaguered corporatists, Bush will veto the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:32 pmIn a heroic stand for the beleaguered corporatists, Bush will veto the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
Comment by Egreggious, Esq. — July 31, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
Thank goodness, the corporations will still be safe from the consequences of unfairly paying their employees. Some thing be proud of, America!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:38 pm/sarcasm
a BJ was enough to send these pseudomoral Bushie supporters into a frenzy yet blatant disregard for the Rule of Law, utter incompetence in their various jobs, treason, obstruction, all OK by them.
Claiming EP over a soldier’s friendly fire death? Waxman is going to clean the floor with these guys. It’s about time we got some facts and the military better spit them out. Something is very rotten in Denmark. All of those records need to be given to Congress, the initial story, all the coverup and the subsequent stories they made up. It will be another I don’t know I forgot, I don’t know who was in charge, “mistakes were made” their usual tag line.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:45 pmEveryone of us would have been FIRED long ago if we did our jobs like these clowns. To think they still have their jobs in spite of their gross dereliction of duty is beyond me, anyone involved should be fired and tried.
Comment by Justice
And let justice be done.
(not you personally, Justice.)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:47 pm:P
To think they still have their jobs in spite of their gross dereliction of duty is beyond me, anyone involved should be fired and tried.
Comment by Justice — July 31, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
“Maybe later, Justice. Right now I got some brush to clear out of the way down on the ranch. Pickles, be sure to pack plenty of onion rings.”
July 31st, 2007 at 9:47 pmI agree, it’s political theatre when nothing comes out of these hearings.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:06 pmCan’t this Congress do anything worthwhile?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ japan/ story/ 0,,2138493,00.html
Now they are whining about Japanese comfort women from the WWII era. Get over it already.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:08 pmI agree, it’s political theatre when nothing comes out of these hearings.
Comment by Porky tha PoPo — July 31, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
July 31st, 2007 at 10:12 pm——
Yep. A big waste of time and money if you ask me.
test
July 31st, 2007 at 10:13 pmPeople hate Congress more than Cheney
Why are you guys always so negative.
Lighten up already, be happy, life is great.
You don’t have enough votes
Clinton did it
Spineless Dems
Witch hunts
Investigate some Dems already
All those Democrats voted for war too
The WMD are in Syria
Over there, not over here
North, South, East, West of Tikrit
Aluminum tube centrifuges
No more than 6 months
Last Throes
Unknown Unknowns
They want to chop your head off
Mushroom clouds
Go with the Army you have, not the one you want
No civil liberties when your dead
Surge
Emboldening the enemy
He killed his own people
With us, or against us
Stay the course
Smoke em’ out of there holes
Shock and awe
Mobile weapons labs
Nigerian Yellow Cake
6 more months
Bring em’ on
July 31st, 2007 at 10:21 pm#103,104,105,106,107!!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:22 pmOFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reason Enough for DELETION!
A U.S. combat soldier was murdered. That’s not “political theater” it’s a capital crime punishable by death. A lifetime of experience with weapons and ballistics tells me that it is impossible to “accidentally” hit any target three times. It is highly improbable that that three shots could intentionally hit the head of a standing man.
There are, only, two possible scenarios.
1) Three rounds were fired into his head while he slept.
2) One round hit him. He fell. Two more rounds were fired into his head as he lay on the ground.
If your political agenda makes it hard for you to believe this line of reasoning; call your county coroner’s office and ask: “Is it remotely possible to accidentally shoot someone, three times, in the head”. There’s no need to take my word for it.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:29 pmYo Pete, I agree the autopsy is very damning evidence, and it seems we have a real problem here. I think this guy was silenced. So who ordered it?
I saying Rummy won’t get in any trouble. If its a case of Tillman getting fragged, I think it’ll be whitewashed. Thanks for playing.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:32 pm“If your political agenda makes it hard for you to believe this line of reasoning; call your county coroner’s office and ask: “Is it remotely possible to accidentally shoot someone, three times, in the headâ€. There’s no need to take my word for it.”
Comment by pete
You failed to postulate more than one shooter…
July 31st, 2007 at 10:33 pm“Can’t this Congress do anything worthwhile?”
Bridge. To. Nowhere.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:41 pmWell, conspiracy, before the fact, isn’t necessary. It is far more likely that he was killed for personal reasons. The problem with a “hit” is that too many people, who may need to make a plea agreement, would have to have direct knowledge. I have a hard time believing that these guys would have enough mutual trust to try something so dangerous.
However, it hardly matters. “Accessory after the fact”carries the same penalty as pulling the trigger or ordering a hit.
There are some interesting things about murder charges. There is no statute of limitations. Charges could be brought in any, or all, of the following jurisdictions: U.S. Military, Federal Courts, the State of Residence of the deceased, or, I believe, the home county of the deceased. But, my favorite would have to be the Afghani Court. After all, the murder happened in a foreign country.
This crime is going to follow the guilty to their graves.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:43 pmYou failed to postulate more than one shooter…
Comment by barfly — July 31, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
It is equally impossible for two, or more shooters to hit such a target simultaneously.
Another well known source of information on the nature of head shots would be film of Jack Kennedy’s assassination.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:46 pmRumsfeld is an abomination. He belongs in a jail cell at The Hague.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:08 pmHe is a monster, just like Cheney and Bush.
Barfly, Pete.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:08 pmThe Newer version M-16 A2 Rifle has what is called a BURST. When you pull the trigger, the rifle fires THREE bullets simutainously.
in other words, the rifle fires trhee consecutive rounds with one trigger pull.
so, if the result is a soldier accidentally pulled the trigger while the trigger was in BURST position, three rounds definitely would wind up at a near target.
Thus, counting for the three rounds in The Honorable Pat Tillmans Head..
It could have been an accident, BUT, the Coverup is was and will forever be UNFORGIVABLE!
Senerio. WHAT IF ?
The one responsible, admitted to it. and apoligizing?
sorry, i am tired. can,t spell worth a damn.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:08 pmThe surge needs a Rumsfeld!
Comment by C.C.Deville
Yes…put him right out front with an American flag.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:12 pmIt was my experience with the M-16 in Nam that a burst of three rounds always pulled the barrel up and to the right such that a tight grouping of any sort was out of the question.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:14 pmThis was something else.
It is equally impossible for two, or more shooters to hit such a target simultaneously.
Another well known source of information on the nature of head shots would be film of Jack Kennedy’s assassination.
Comment by pete
Links?
Kennedy’s shot (s) was/were from behind, and he was in a seated position at impact. Are you saying that it is impossible for two shots to hit that closely when a person is on the ground, no matter the circumstances? Can you provide something to back it up?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 pmhey Porky
anyone who doesn’t think they are “getting anything” out of the hearings CLEARLY did not watch the hearings. You need to turn of Limbaugh and Faux News and learn the facts YOURSELF and try thinking FOR YOURSELF, because you are dead wrong. There is such an incredible amount of evidence of incompetence, criminal activities and cronyism coming out of the hearings it boggles the mind. WATCH the hearings and stop being such a lemming and swallowing the lies and pay attention. You have a civic duty to THINK FOR YOURSELF instead of blindly following your leader cowering in fear.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 pmRUCerious — J
July 31st, 2007 at 11:19 pmI believe you, But, I Think after the years gone by, Improvements could or have been made.
you are right though, a burst of three rounds still pull the barrel up and to the right . But, not as much as the Older Version of Burst.
I didn,t know that Burst was used in Vietnam, tell me more about it.
I thought it just came out in the new M-16A2,s.
They appear to be offering one general star from the scapegoat retired corps. That’s a pitiful price for a soldier’s life.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:23 pmtesting
August 1st, 2007 at 12:13 am“Gee billobaggins,
where wuz your outrage when Clinton used the “Executive Privilege†ploy for a record number of times?
(birds chirping)
Comment by C.C.Deville “
Proof please. Since you said it, you must have a link to something that says that Clinton used Executive Privilege for a record number of times.
I was unable to find a reference to the number of times Clinton used Executive privilege but I did run into this gem:
“Declaring that “absolutely no one is above the law,” independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr said such a privilege “must give way” and evidence “must be turned over” to prosecutors if it is relevant to an investigation.”
What do you say about that CC?
August 1st, 2007 at 12:15 amComment by bilbobaggins — August 1, 2007 @ 12:15 am
I wondered if CC had just pulled that out of his a$$.
I didn’t question it at the time because the “Clinton did it too” thing is so ridiculous anyway.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:20 amThe problem with a “hit†is that too many people, who may need to make a plea agreement, would have to have direct knowledge. I have a hard time believing that these guys would have enough mutual trust to try something so dangerous.
Pete - you are thinking that everyone who was there was in on the crime. That is not necessarily the case. One guy could have been responsible and have intentionally killed Pat Tillman. Then he could have put on a good act and convinced his fellow soldiers that it was an accident, he didn’t mean to kill him. Then, the loyal soldiers would have helped him cover it up. Once they did that, they were not complicit in the crime and in as much legal jeopardy as the person who pulled the trigger.
I am firmly convinced that this was a hit. I am equally convinced that if George Bush did not order Pat Tillman’s death, he at least knew it was going to happen and that’s why he is so desperately trying to cover it up. Pat Tillman had become a vocal critic of the Bush Administration and he was due home on leave before the ‘04 election. Bush was scared to death that Pat Tillman was going to talk to reporters and he knew that because of his fame, that the media would cover what he had to say.
So, to all you trolls, if it turns out that Bush ordered Pat Tillman’s death or was complicit in that he knew it was going to happen, will you still support Bush?
August 1st, 2007 at 12:21 amoops. I said “they were not” and should have said “they were now”
Typo.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:22 amBarfly.
Something is up with my ability to post. Until TP lets me post links I’ll leave you with this. I’ve spent 26 years with a national ammunition manufacturer. My job is to produce the most accurate rifle ammo that money can buy. I also served 8 years in the U.S. Army including 2 years as a rifle instructor. I have taken innumerable animals including many with head shots.
I referred you to the Kennedy film as an example of how much an unsupported head jerks when hit with a bullet. Standing or sitting makes no difference. When a bullet hits bone it doesn’t penetrate until the neck has bent to, nearly, it’s limit. This would shift the point of impact. Even if the rifle was held in a vice, the grouping described in this case would be impossible. I’ll try posting further info tomorrow.
G’night all.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:22 am________
Rumsfeld will make Gonzo seem honest!
Can’t wait for some more classic Rumsfeldian musing ….
August 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am________
Bbaggins
I’m not saying the whole unit would be involved and I’m not saying it wasn’t a hit. That’s not my area of expertise. However, there would have to be a chain between the “contractor” and the shooter. Unless the links in the chain have “disappeared” someone holds very dangerous secrets.
G’night again.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:30 amIt should read:
The “Honorable” Donald Rumsfeld
August 1st, 2007 at 8:58 amFormer Secretary of Self-Defense
Rumsfeld is anything but “Honorable”.
August 1st, 2007 at 10:16 amDo you think anybody’s going to plead the Fifth?
I can hear the old crotchety Rummy complaining now: “This is a witch-hunt…!”
August 1st, 2007 at 11:33 am#4
Ready?
Everybody nbow….
“I don’t remember,
I don’t recall
I got no memory
of anything at all….â€
Repeat till hearing closes & have a nice day!
That’s a theme song this admin could really get into .
Comment by pwapvt — July 31, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
ha!! - you called it!! - i’m watching rumsfeld right now and “i dont recall” is part of every so-called answer to the questions they are being asked…..but mind you,the questions are kind of strange and largely incomprehensible and relate to f**k all to do with tillman’s death - is anybody else watching this and am i the only one who thinks none of it makes sense? - i mean,can any of these people ask a direct question?
August 1st, 2007 at 11:48 amunlike the poisonous Bush, who can’t even walk among his own people.
Comment by ronjazz
The birds even shit on him when he ventures outside. ;)
August 1st, 2007 at 11:48 pm