Earlier today, the White House rejected an agreement that had been struck between congressional leaders and the Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell to make changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), opting instead to launch a fresh political offensive over its spying activities. House Intelligence Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) explained to CQ (sub. req.) the administration pushed for more changes after Democrats reached an agreement with McConnell:
“DNI McConnell told us, ‘We need these three things.’ We gave them to him. Then he turned around and said, ‘Well, I have some other concerns.’”
Spencer Ackerman reports that the White House weighed in and overruled McConnell’s agreement with the congressional leaders. Bush declared today that he was “going to ask Congress to stay in session until they pass a bill” to his liking. The White House communications department then spammed reporters with “fact sheets” and emails about “why America needs FISA reform now.”
A central reason for the rush to push FISA legislation through Congress was revealed by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) during an appearance on Fox News earlier this week when he made reference to a secret legal opinion declaring “a key element of the Bush administration’s wiretapping efforts illegal.” “There’s been a ruling, over the last four or five months, that prohibits the ability of our intelligence services and our counterintelligence people” Boehner told Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto. Watch it:
In the decision, a “judge, whose name could not be learned, concluded early this year that the government had overstepped its authority in attempting to broadly surveil communications between two locations overseas that are passed through routing stations in the United States.” The legislation hammered out with McConnell fixes the holes created by the ruling, but the congressional leadership rejects “the administration’s insistence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales be given an expanded role to oversee the program.”
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, said “the administration proposal to grant Gonzales greater authority ‘is simply unacceptable’” in light of “allegations that the embattled attorney general has misled Congress about legal disputes over the surveillance program.”
After illegally conducting the spying program, the White House and surrogates like Boehner are using the FISA legislation to score political points. Tell Congress not to cave in to fear by rubber stamping a spying program without proper oversight HERE.
UPDATE: Marty Lederman and Jack Balkin explain the details of the legislation and the White House’s opposition. The AP reports the White House and congressional leaders have broken off talks.
Wow - Is my government spying on me?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:33 pmCaving? Youre talking about a dem-controlled congress whose major accomplishments so far consist of renaming various post offices.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:35 pmThis is crazy. These assholes have the audacity to try and force congress to retroactively pass unconstitutional laws for them. Bush must have alot of shit on these folks. What a damn shame.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:35 pmThese people can go to hell. Every last one of them.
This is classic Bush administration nonsense. The judiciary determines something you are doing is unconstitutional, but instead of complying and playing by the rules, you rush to the press and the congress to try to bully them into enacting laws which makes what you're doing legal - in other words, try to get congress to enact legislation the judiciary has already ruled unconsitutional. It just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:36 pmthe administration’s insistence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales be given an expanded role to oversee the program
Oh, yup. That's a real good idea. Maybe Gonzo could also get Mike Brown to help him out on this. And how about Bernie Kerik?
Another production brought to you by GDumbya, The Disaster President®
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:37 pmLet's not forget that Boehner is revealing classified information here... isn't he? If a Dem had done that he'd be burned at the Fox News stake.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 pmYeah, Viper, the Dems have had a gol-darned hard time getting things done. Any thoughts on why that might be?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 pmCan't believe a word they say, can't cut a deal without expecting the, Oh, just one more little detail.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:39 pmKinda Like Columbo leaving the room...Just one more thing....
I saw on yahoo, Bush says congress shouldn't recess until he gets a bill concerning the FISA stuff he can sign. My thoughts send the bill through, and then recess, Bush can veto, then get stuck waiting. I don't know why the dems bother with any sort of bi-partisan efforts concerning the white house, it never works.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:40 pmtell bush no
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:41 pmLet’s not forget that Boehner is revealing classified information here… isn’t he? If a Dem had done that he’d be burned at the Fox News stake.
No, the dem would be applauded.
Remember, if libs expose top-secret info theyre a brave whistle blower, if repubs do the same thing they are traitorous leakers.
'DNC Handbook, page 17, paragraph two.'
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:43 pmThey should tell Bush to suck lemons. If he calls them back into emergency session, send him a bill cutting off all funding for the war, and immediate troop withdrawal.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:44 pmThe Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:46 pm#
The Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
More like being anally raped without the benefit of a reach around.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:48 pmTDD ~ more like a Three Stooges tragedy...
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:48 pmYeah, Viper, the Dems have had a gol-darned hard time getting things done. Any thoughts on why that might be?
Well lets see..
1) They dont have the sacred mandate they thought they had; you would think with supposedly 99% of Americans demanding out of Iraq now, they would be able to muster public support for such a thing. It worked for the immigration bill, why not now?
2) The dems are playing politics with their measures, ala the refusal to forward any Iraq proposals until after the recess hoping it will scare more republicans into switching sides. I thought the libs really really cared about the troops?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmI'm thinking Boehner was sent out to "leak" that little bit of classified information, on the White House propoganda station.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmThe dems are playing politics with their measures, ala the refusal to forward any Iraq proposals until after the recess hoping it will scare more republicans into switching sides. I thought the libs really really cared about the troops?
Comment by Pithy Viper — August 3, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
_________________
How is your semi-question related to your set-up?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:51 pmPissy, you might want to take another look and see who's blocking legislation in the Senate by not letting it be brought up for a vote.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:51 pmThe Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
That would mean the Clinton years were like a Reuben Sturman movie.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:52 pmAll the President's Diversions
One would think with this many levels of evidence of illegal activity, we'd have someone in Congress put down their foot. The President's admitted the FISA warrants were not obtained as required. The revelations since the NYT article have been a smokescreen, delaying tactic. The only thing the GOP can do is, rather than assent to FISA violations and requirement es, pretend that the requirements themselves are wrong. Wake up America: The President has admitted to illegal activity when he admitted [a] FISA court was not involved; [b] warrants were not obtained; and [c] he reserves the right to opt out of FISA requirements, regardless their connection or non-connection with domestic targets requiring a warrant.
Notice what is happening: The original FISA illegal violations are not getting attention. WH is now leaking classified information to talk about new legislation, which the President will likely ignore. Note Beohner's disclosures don't explain why the AG did not get a warrant for what the FISA Court said was a US-based-related communication.
Again, don't miss the point: Rather than get the public and Congress to focus on the President's admissions that he didn't get FISA warrants, as required -- a crime -- the DOJ, EOP-OVP are attempting to make the issue something else: Whether Congress is or isn't passing new legislation. New laws are not needed. FISA needs to be enforced. if the President was really concerned about bonafide leaks of legit activity, then he should have, when first notified of the NYT investigation in 2004-5, ordered an investigation into the leak. He didn't do that.
DC is getting lost is a diversion. The President's already admitted to illegal activity and FISA violations. Congress is attempting to find evidence confirming the President's hands were on every staff member's e-mail account. Huh? Wake up: Orders went out, the FISA court was ignored, FBI agents have been banned from the FISA court because of their lying; and the DOJ Staff counsel computers have been linked to unofficial websites when the AG said they were too busy to process FISA warrants. Why would the AG's assertions be relevant as to whether the DOJ Staff was or wasn't busy: It's a requirement and the President's admitted to the illegal activity.
Having "No FISA warrants" for a domestic-connection -- on top of the Comey concerns about that illegal activity -- means that the warrants were known to be required; but the President-VP ordered Gonzlaez to pressure the AG for a waiver. The President admitted that he didn't get the warrants, and the AG late night meeting at the hospital shows the President and others knew that that legal requirement was real, not something that could be explained away then, in DoJ e-mails, in the RNC e-mails, or today in 2007 before Congress or the Grand Jury.
As to the Boehner revelations: He's essentially admitted that there was a domestic connections, and the FISA court correctly required a warrant. At issue isn't the FISA requirement, but the excises the US government, President, and Congress are making to bypass the FISA court and warrant requirement on domestic related intercepts. Again, the President isn't blocked from engaging in bonafide surveillance; he's prevented from unilaterally declaring that that domestic-connected intercept is outside FISA.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:53 pmDo You See?!?!
The Republicans are following the rules! You libs have nothing to complain about!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:53 pm"Caving? Youre talking about a dem-controlled congress whose major accomplishments so far consist of renaming various post offices.
Comment by Pithy Viper"
Got those talking points going there, don't you. So, please tell me how the Democratic controlled congress is supposed to pass legislation when the Republicans filibuster anything they try to do? The Democrats passed quite a few major bills in the first 100 hours of office, most of which are now being filibustered by the Republicans from going any further. The only reason why we even have the minimum wage increase is because the Democrats were forced to attach it to the "off the books" "emergency" spending bill for Iraq.
I certainly hope that the Democrats don't allow Bush to introduce another "emergency" spending bill. They should tell him to introduce the bill through regular channels and figure out how he is going to pay for it. We are going to really regret mortgaging our grand children's futures one of these days. The time will come when we have to pay the piper.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:56 pmThe Republicans are following the rules!
WTF!? You aren't paying attention, are you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:57 pmViper: "They dont have the sacred mandate they thought they had; you would think with supposedly 99% of Americans demanding out of Iraq now, they would be able to muster public support for such a thing. It worked for the immigration bill, why not now?"
It doesn't matter if 100% of the American public supports something. A determined minority can indefinitely obstruct legislation unless the majority holds two-thirds or supermajorities. You know why Dems haven't been able to get things done. You're simply two jaded to be intellectually honest about it. But most Americans know what's going on. That's why 58% of respondents say they'll vote for the Dem for congress or Senate in the next election. We'll just get supermajorities and a Dem president and the modern conservative "movement" is done.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:58 pmThe Republicans are following the rules!
WTF!? You aren’t paying attention, are you?
Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
---------
Sure I am. The Republicans are going to see this thing through in Congress. Whereas in the past, that would not have even been considered.
You Libs just want to complain...
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:59 pmbilbogaggins, these people don't give a shit what happens to their children and grandchildren, as long as they get theirs now. I'm sick to death of hearing how this "war on terror" is the struggle of the century, but by God, don't raise my taxes. Don't inconvenience me! Let our children pay for it! Let those children not even born yet pay for it! Not a single iota of sacrifice for this "glorious" war! In fact, give me a tax cut!
It's sickening.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:00 pm"That’s why 58% of respondents say they’ll vote for the Dem for congress or Senate in the next election. "
It must be really embarrassing to all the Republican candidates that they are losing to "Any Ole Democrat".
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pmPolitical shenanigans aside, this dispute is precisely why Abu Gonzales has to go. He doesn't have any credibility, so nobody in their right mind (hopefully) would trust the hack with any meaningful oversight over something like this. It's like letting a registered sex offender babysit your kid. You'd never do it, right?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm"bilbogaggins, these people don’t give a shit what happens to their children and grandchildren, as long as they get theirs now. "
You are 100% correct. This is evidenced in their refusal to even allow for the possibility of global warming. I don't know about you, but if I was convinced that man is not responsible for global warming, I would still be encouraging my government to do something to reverse the effects of man's footprint on earth. Because if I am wrong, then I have just committed my grandchildren to the possibility of no future and no life.
I consider Global Warming to be a much bigger threat to our world than terrorists. Terrorists come and go. Global warming is here to stay unless we start doing something to stop it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:04 pmWho is this imbecile judge? Overturn him on appeal!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:07 pmGot those talking points going there, don’t you. So, please tell me how the Democratic controlled congress is supposed to pass legislation when the Republicans filibuster anything they try to do?
You rescind the 'Minority Bill of Rights'â„¢ that the repubs inherited from Pelosi.
But seriously folks, you get used to the fact that the dems have the slimmest of majorities which seems to be built on the same shatpile they peddled before the 06 election; change is a'coming because the American people demand it.
So here you are, trying to sell the American people your version which stinks so badly that we dont want anything to do with it. Hear that sound? Its the utter silence coming from Americans when you talk about defeat and running from Iraq.
Doesnt sound like the noise America made about the immigration debacle does it, when the senate phone system died and email servers throughout D.C. vaporized from the flood of incoming indignation.
Cry all you want, the poll numbers are going down because of feckless dem leadership; Pelosi and Reid couldnt control a one-child daycare, much less their own caucus.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:07 pmThe judiciary determines something you are doing is unconstitutional, but instead of complying and playing by the rules, you rush to the press and the congress to try to bully them into enacting laws which makes what you’re doing legal - in other words, try to get congress to enact legislation the judiciary has already ruled unconsitutional. It just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
When was the program ruled unconstitutional?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:08 pmtully: "The Republicans are going to see this thing through in Congress."
Finally, we agree on something! Yes they will. And it will be their undoing. When they obstruct a solution to Iraq they defy 72% of the public. When they obstruct stem cell research they derfy 85% of the public. When they push to eliminate the estate tax they work for 0.3% of the public. When they work to deny Medicare the right to bargain for lower drug prices, they work for big Pharma.
Yes, I want them to continue to demonstrate their priorities right up to the 2008 election.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:09 pmMy thoughts send the bill through, and then recess, Bush can veto, then get stuck waiting.
I'd love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:09 pmIt must be really embarrassing to all the Republican candidates that they are losing to “Any Ole Democratâ€.
It must be embarrassing to depend on polls for your livlihood. 58% of what, old people in Massachusetts and New York City contacted at noon on a workday? Well, tip me over with a feather.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:11 pmGrouser: "58% of what, old people in Massachusetts and New York City contacted at noon on a workday?"
I believe this was a Gallup or a CBS/AP poll. It was one of the big ones and, no, it is statistically impossible that they would only be asking people in New York and Mass. at noon on a workday. That's not how large-scale statistical polls work.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:16 pmI’d love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Not being that familiar with this idea, can the president force congress into session, or to stay in session?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:19 pmI say the polls are wrong.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:19 pmYes, I want them to continue to demonstrate their priorities right up to the 2008 election.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 3, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
------------------
You will see Republican/Conservative values at work from here on out... it's the New American Century!!! And Isl*mists will be exposed and destroyed through out the world. Including those who are already in the USA!!!
God Bless America!!!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:22 pmI’d love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
Comment by m12
You really do hate the republic, don't you? Pathetic little totalitarian personality, eager to turn the country into a dictatorship.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:23 pmAnd Isl*mists will be exposed and destroyed through out the world. Including those who are already in the USA!!!
Comment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Genocide anyone?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:25 pmFine, whatever. Polls are polls and if you dig deep enough you will find polls that show a majority of Americans believe the moon is made of cheese. Polls change and will continue to change up to the day an election is held; its only August in 2007 for gawds sake.
Here is a poll for you from Zogby: Congress has a 3% approval number on their handling of the war, a number so abysmal that Zogby claims their margin of error was only 1% instead of the usual 3% that every other poll has had.
Believe them if you want, but if you do, then be intellectually honest enough to accept them when they change and dont align with your beliefs.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:27 pm4th Amendment, we don't need no stinkin' 4th Amendment.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:28 pmGenocide anyone?
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
I don't mean all M*slims, just those that hold extr*m* views.
There are certain words that I can not say any more,
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmdue to TP's F***IST censorship.
Here is a poll for you from Zogby: Congress has a 3% approval number on their handling of the war, a number so abysmal that Zogby claims their margin of error was only 1% instead of the usual 3% that every other poll has had.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
_________________
Sounds like folks have had it with the status quo.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmKrazny, Article II, Section 3.
The President may call extraordinary sessions of one or both Houses of Congress. If the two Houses cannot agree on a date for adjournment, the President may adjourn both Houses to such a time as he thinks fit.
Here's one that Roosevelt called:
Whereas public interests require that the Congress of the United States should be convened in extra session at twelve o'clock, noon, on the Ninth day of March, 1933, to receive such communication as may be made by the Executive;
Now, Therefore, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim and declare that an extraordinary occasion requires the Congress of the United States to convene in extra session at the Capitol in the City of Washington on the Ninth day of March, 1933, at twelve o'clock, noon, of which all persons who shall at that time be entitled to act as members thereof are hereby required to take notice.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused to be affixed the great seal of the United States.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmComment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Define extremists views please. If you only want to target them then I guess you have a clear definition of what extremist means.
Cheers
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm46.: My views, Duh!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:32 pmThe trolls, here, love to show their true colors. The hell with the Constitution, all the while praying to the golden "bush" calf.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 pmMy views, Duh!
Comment by tully
There ya go, UKBristolDave. Another intelligent reply from the right.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 pmWhy do we need a 4th Amendment anyway? I trust the government . . .why whould they lie to us?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmNOT.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
Not all extr*mists, Isl*m*F*sc*sts and M*sl*mSh*t**ters. And I would love to say more, but TP won't even let me define the concept of "the enemy"
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmA troll a day keeps the truth away.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmThere ya go, UKBristolDave. Another intelligent reply from the right.
Comment by Candyce — August 3, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
That is an impostor.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
Hey UKDave, how's it going? ;)
Later.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmWhen was the program ruled unconstitutional?
Comment by m12
In the 1970s when Congress found out the same things were going on... that is why they passed FISA.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmFighting against the Constitution over here, so we don't have to fight it over there. The bushco creed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmWell, the Left has resorted to name-jacking and personal insults...
we all know that means trolls win.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmBut of course, I only spew bile.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:37 pmDefine extremists views please. If you only want to target them then I guess you have a clear definition of what extremist means.
Cheers
Comment by UKBristolDave
Yeah, like you'll get an answer to that.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmMore military people have donated money to Ron Paul (Constitutionalist against just about everything the NeoCons are for including Iraq) than they did any other Republican so far...
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmwe all know that means trolls win.
Comment by Glaukon — August 3, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
F*ck that, I just had one deleted -- and no vile racism.
We're even.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmIt just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 3, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
Careful mon Colonel... you're using "facts" to make "sense".
Why do "facts" and "sense" hate America so?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmHi, Zooey. Hi, TRoS.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:39 pmYeah, like you’ll get an answer to that.
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
---------
I would have like to answer. But you know how TP is now-a-days.
Ask Zooey......
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmMore military people have donated money to Ron Paul (Constitutionalist against just about everything the NeoCons are for including Iraq) than they did any other Republican so far…
Wait...you learned that from a poll, right? Bwaaaa
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmTrent Franks makes me nauseous.
These people know no bounds. They have the audacity to try to pull this right now.
Fearmonger asshats!
If they give Gonzo one SHRED of power with FISA we are truly screwed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmThis is all because they are trying to cover the fact that they AGAIN publically released classified info. and let the cat outta the bag that the FISA judge ruled this warrantless wiretap crap ILLEGAL. Now they want to shift it around so judges don't have a say, only Gonzo does!
UNREAL
Col. Jack: Swatting trolls, one at a time. Rock on, Col.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmThere are too many libtrolls in here!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmComment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
OK, but perhaps calling people M*sl*mSh*te*ters isn't a good idea. It will end up on websites in the Middle East as "proof" that Americans hate Muslims. I don't think stoking the fire is a very good idea at the moment.
What does qualify as an extremist though? I have my own opinion but I am genuinely interested in yours.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmYou really do hate the republic, don’t you?
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
Hate the Republic? Moi???? But... but... I'm so warm... and cuddly.... and... and... lovable. Surely, you speak of some other, less likable Republic, sir!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:42 pmCandyce, 'sup?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:43 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Newp.
You guys think the military is all pro-NeoCon... man do you have a wake up call coming...
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:44 pmThere are too many libtrolls in here!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Then perhaps Theophrastos should head for the door, whilst his trollones are still intact...
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:45 pmI don’t think stoking the fire is a very good idea at the moment.
I dont think they need much of an excuse considering 27 people died over some cartoons.
Hell, Gwen Stefani cant even wear a skirt in Malaysia because a few dimwits are afraid of seeing female legs.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:46 pmYou guys think the military is all pro-NeoCon… man do you have a wake up call coming…
You made the statement, now back it up. Source your claim for all to see.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:48 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Sooooo when are you going to invent that extremist detecting missle?
Oh you cant? So that means your entire approach since 911 has been completely retarded?
Ok now that makes more sense about why you say the things you do.
Ever hear that there is more than one way to skin a cat? Have any clue what that means?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 pmHi, Everybody. Good job, Candyce, rinding that Constitutional Quote. I was scanning the comments and decided to refresh before doing what you did.
Yes, he can do that, and the sad part is that the determination of what constitutes (no pun intended) an "extraordinary occasion" is left up to him. He might decide that all his lies becoming uncovered and unraveled would be an "extraordinary occasion". Anyway, he can call them into session, but he can't tell them what to do. He can keep threatening to call them back, and they can move for adjournment as soon as they show up if they want to. They could play that game all August long if it pleases everyone. But then you won't get that chance to meet your Congresspeople when they come back home during this month.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Okay. But first of all I didn't use the word unqualified as you seem to be doing now. I said:
If it was unclear, I apologize. But I was talking about M*slim Extr*m*sts.
I want this to get through, and I will answer in my next post.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:50 pmOK, but perhaps calling people M*sl*mSh*te*ters isn’t a good idea. It will end up on websites in the Middle East as “proof†that Americans hate Muslims.
Oof da, we wouldnt want to stoke the fire with our free-speech, now would we?
How many centuries do you think it will be before the muslim extremists feel secure enough that they wont decide to murder me because I call them names?
Ahhhh forget it, we have already been waiting for about 1000 years and it aint going to happen. Might as well enjoy it while we can.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:51 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Fully agree. That was an example of pure manipulation of events to get a result. Straight propaganda and it was despicable.
Grouser, I'm on the left of the political spectrum but I'm not a total tool.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:53 pmGerald, all Im asking for is the source you used to make the claim about troops sending cash to Ron Paul.
Does it exist or did you pull it out of your a$$?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:54 pmYou made the statement, now back it up. Source your claim for all to see.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Use Google yourself .. it was in recent news... maybe you will learn something while searching..
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:55 pmOkay, it went through.
The USA needs to gather intelligence on, hunt down, and destroy, any and all Isl*m*Extr*m*sts, these are M*sl*ms that put Isl*m above everything, and who want to inflict harm on Americans in the name of All*h,
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:56 pmYou really do hate the republic, don’t you?
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
Hate the Republic? Moi???? But… but… I’m so warm… and cuddly…. and… and… lovable. Surely, you speak of some other, less likable Republic, sir!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I was definitely referring to a much much older republic. Kind of wrinkly and definitely battered.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:58 pmComment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
OK, it is your right to call members of the Muslim community whatever you want. However, you have to consider if it is strategically the right thing to do. At the moment I'd say it isn't. We currently have X amount of Muslim believers trying to kill both you and me. Personally, it pisses me off. To try and minimise the risk, I want to try and win over as many followers of Islam as I can. That way we drain the swamp and isolate the nutters.
Tossing insults around only adds to the appeal of the extremists. I have no doubt you want to win the War on Terror. So do I. Pissing people off is a sure fire way to lose.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pmNever said you were a fool, Dave, I guess Im just tired of being told I need to tippy-toe around muslim sensibilities because they cant handle any criticism.
The simplest of events, words, pictures or displays seem to provoke a rage in so many muslims, so I doubt that one guy here saying "muslim shateater" is going to make a dent in the considerable pile the extremists claim as anti-muslim bigotry.
Like another poster said earlier, we might as well enjoy our free-speech; I dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pmit is your right to call members of the M*slim community whatever you want.
Not all M*slims are M*sl*mSh*t*aters.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Did you hear about the schools in the UK that refuse to teach the Holocaust because they don't want to offend the Holocaust denying M*slims?
Pretty pathetic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:03 pmtully doesn't want to wipe out all Muslims.
tully: "I don’t mean all M*slims, just those that hold extr*m* views."
I see. Holding an "extreme view" is a capital offense. Hmmmm. You conservatives need to get a hold of yourselves. Democracy is not for the faint of heart and I can see it's very taxing to your delicate sensibilities.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:03 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Yeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:06 pmYeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
-----
Really?
http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,2048161,00.html
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:10 pmI see. Holding an “extreme view†is a capital offense. Hmmmm. You conservatives need to get a hold of yourselves. Democracy is not for the faint of heart and I can see it’s very taxing to your delicate sensibilities.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Not to mention, it's a comic book view of Muslims, even fundamentalist Muslims. It requires completely ignoring what the "extremists" say about their own motives -- that the want the West out of their countries, that they want the West to stop propping up authoritarian regimes like those in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and that they want to control their own countries.
I'm not fond of fundamentalists of any stripe. I hate the way that the Muslim fundies in a lot of these countries treat women, I was completely appalled when the Taliban destroyed those magnificent statues of the Buddha, but I completely understand that they do not want foreigners telling them how to live or supporting autocrats like the House of Saud.
But it's not my country, and there isn't a single Muslim nation that actively seeks to conquer the US, if we would simply stop interfering in their part of the world.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Look, for me it's a bit of a nightmare as well. I'm an atheist but with a big belief in respecting other peoples religious beliefs. I've learnt that certain things offensive to Christians aren't offensive to Muslims and vice versa. The Danish cartoon thing was a total joke - offense was whipped up around the world but the two very offensive images (showing Mohammed and Allah) were constructs.
I also work with some colleagues who are very strong believers in Christ. Hence when I balls things up I no longer take the Lords name in vain as I know it will offend them.
I try and accomodate every reasonable request to tolerate religious belief. However, if anyone wants to blow me up about it I will take serious offence.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:12 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
Yes! That's it! Isl*mic R*dicals are cool, except when they mistreat women!!!
BwAhHAhAHahhAHHAhAhAhA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, don't you have someone to surrender to?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 pmYeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
—–
Really?
http://education.guardian.co.uk/ schools/ story/ 0,,2048161,00.html
Comment by Theophrastos
Looks like he got you this time, Dave. Point to the blind squirrel.
It is pretty appalling, if true. Just as inexcusable as the schools in the US who were choosing not to teach Evolution, or who thought they needed to teach ID alongside it.
If parents don't want their children hearing things that challenge their beliefs, they should ship them off to private school.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:14 pmif we would simply stop interfering in their part of the world.
So I take it you were against the invasion of Afghanistan?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:15 pmYes! That’s it! Isl*mic R*dicals are cool, except when they mistreat women!!!
BwAhHAhAHahhAHHAhAhAhA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, don’t you have someone to surrender to?
Comment by Theophrastos
No one gave you the role of policing the behavior of other people, idiot, no more than anyone gave the US the role of policing the behavior of people in other countries. If you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation -- run by Afghani women.
You don't get to blow them up just to prove you're right and they're wrong. Not to mention, it's a totally ineffective method of changing people's behavior.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:17 pmAnd I would also hope that you are against ANY type of aid to muslim countries, as this might constitute interference. Let them figure it out, even if it means civil war in Palestine.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm"Its the utter silence coming from Americans when you talk about defeat and running from Iraq."
Oh really, then why do 64% of the people in this country want us to get out of Iraq. Hardly sounds like silence to me.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm"When was the program ruled unconstitutional?
Comment by m12 "
About 5 months ago. But it was supposed to be top secret until Boner spilled the beans the other day. Don't keep up with the news much do you mommy12?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmIf you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation — run by Afghani women.
Yes, and then we send them to Kabul to harangue the Taliban about womens rights. Two hours later the women are carted off to the old soccer stadium to receive their official response in the form of a bullet to the head.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmONE history department in northern England chose not to include the Holocaust in its curriculum to avoid conflict. ONE.
NOT the entire school system. In fact it is compulsory. Every other school in England has it in the curriculum. This lie was spread by one of those email campaigns.
Snopes is your friend.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
I admit I have read different versions of the event. OK, the key thing must be the last line, which I have quoted below
"Teaching of the Holocaust is expected to become compulsory under the new national curriculum from next year."
If we had a problem then it is now resolved.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:21 pmIf you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation — run by Afghani women.
Yes, and then we send them to Kabul to harangue the Taliban about womens rights. Two hours later the women are carted off to the old soccer stadium to receive their official response in the form of a bullet to the head.
Comment by LibTeenie
Ah, so you don't think such work is being done already? You really need to read something besides NewsMax on occasion.
And, in case you hadn't noticed, the Taliban no longer runs Kabul. You really are completely out of touch with reality, aren't you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:22 pmOh really, then why do 64% of the people in this country want us to get out of Iraq. Hardly sounds like silence to me.
Jeebus, do you and Gerald scope the same polls? Its a POLL, so show me the source for this number and we can move on with it, then explain how the public could meltdown over immigration in just one week but not do the same for the war in four years? Thats the point about the "silence"; you want to live on the polls but its just a POLL.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:23 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Apparently not gummitch....
I remember this story in the UK press. I know it turned into a non-story very quickly but can't remember why.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 pmAnd I would also hope that you are against ANY type of aid to muslim countries, as this might constitute interference. Let them figure it out, even if it means civil war in Palestine.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Is this how the Republic "brain" works? Leaping around without any logical connections?
Your buddy George and his friends are in the process of giving billions of dollars worth of armaments to the Saudis, who really couldn't afford to buy anything on their own. Not to mention billions more to the Egyptians, so they can keep a good tight lid on any incipient democracy, and to the Israelis who always need more weapons.
But buddy George has completely ignored the Israeli-Palestinian question since he took office and now the Arab leaders are thinking his next scheduled visit is just a photo op. I wonder where they got that idea?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:26 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Apparently not gummitch….
I remember this story in the UK press. I know it turned into a non-story very quickly but can’t remember why.
Comment by UKBristolDave
Sorry; I should have given you a chance to respond first. At least this turns the universe back right side up. Thinking Mr Pee was right about something was warping the fabric of this dimension.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:27 pmAh, so you don’t think such work is being done already? You really need to read something besides NewsMax on occasion.
And, in case you hadn’t noticed, the Taliban no longer runs Kabul. You really are completely out of touch with reality, aren’t you?
Uh...you said that we cant change people by blowing them up, yet the Taliban were evicted by...er...blowing them up. Afghan women's groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 pmDemocrats in DC should tell Bush that they will give him NOTHING. If Dubya does not like it, then he can resign and move to Paraguay.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Irrelevant. Completely.
Interference is interference, whether it comes in the form of military invasion or gobs of financial aid. If you advocate non-interference then it stands to reason that we should do it across the board; money given might very well determine an interior struggle between competing groups since we would be...uhh...interfering if we tried to guide those funds.
Its the same argument being made today, that we need to pull out of Iraq because we are in the middle of a civil war.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
No worries fella. As I say, it was in the tabloids for a day, some investigation was done and it was shown to be total pony.
When I left school, OK it was 11 years ago, we were taken on a school trip to Germany to visit a concentration camp. It was a life changing moment. On the way back to England we stopped at one of the mass World War 1 cemeteries for the unknown dead. The scale of the slaughter became clear. Jesus, on the first day of the Somme the Brits had 60,000 casualties.
I can't envisage anyone being pro-war after experiencing that. I accept that war has to happen in certain circumstances but what both our countries are involved in now.....no way does it justify it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 pmThe USA needs to gather intelligence on, hunt down, and destroy, any and all Isl*m*Extr*m*sts, these are M*sl*ms that put Isl*m above everything, and who want to inflict harm on Americans in the name of All*h,
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
_____________________
Which has nothing to do with how women are treated in Muslim countries.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 pmUh…you said that we cant change people by blowing them up, yet the Taliban were evicted by…er…blowing them up. Afghan women’s groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
Comment by LibTeenie
See, I had no idea you were all about women's rights, here and abroad. This is intriguing. I'm sure you're now ready to invade India, because thousands of little girls are regularly kidnapped from their families and sold into prostitution. Good for you. When you join up and get through boot camp, be sure to tell them you want to be sent to India.
Or you could go over and do your good works in Afghanistan, where we have done pretty much NOTHING to change the role of women. Do a little light reading and find out what happens to adulterous women now. Or to women who have been raped. Or women who want a divorce. Or women who don't want a divorce for that matter.
You're not very good at either logical thinking or keeping up, are you?
So, no, blowing people up does nothing to change behavior. We may change the players, although in this case we mostly just moved them off the board a little.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 pmI can’t envisage anyone being pro-war after experiencing that.
Just for arguments sake and Id like to know your opinion, was WWII worth it to stop Hitler had he never invaded anyone, all else being the same?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pmIrrelevant. Completely.
Interference is interference, whether it comes in the form of military invasion or gobs of financial aid. If you advocate non-interference then it stands to reason that we should do it across the board; money given might very well determine an interior struggle between competing groups since we would be…uhh…interfering if we tried to guide those funds.
Its the same argument being made today, that we need to pull out of Iraq because we are in the middle of a civil war.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
"Interference" has a very specific meaning. You might want to look it up.
When people invite you to help resolve a conflict, it's not "interference", at least not in the English language.
You persist in making leaps that have no logical connection, and you have to pad the holes with asinine assumptions. Where did I ever suggest it was appropriate to send money of any kind to the Middle East? Weapons? Cash? Anything? What? Nothing? I never suggested that?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 pmIf the Democrats pass what Bush wants, then they are OKing Gonzales to spy on all of them. Does anyone in DC have a brain anymore?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:46 pmWhich has nothing to do with how women are treated in Muslim countries.
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
--------
What the hell are talking about?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:47 pmthrow a "you" in there for me, thanks.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:47 pmLibteenie, Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO,
I think there is only one thing that we can do now...
Say the word Libteenie and I'll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning...
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmLike another poster said earlier, we might as well enjoy our free-speech; I dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
__________________
Nor do I want any of the other freedoms guaranteed me by the Constitution to be abridged because of some imam (or anyone else) in Saudi Arabia.
Nor am I interested in having my rights infringed upon by some American fundamentalists with pre-first-century worldviews.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmWhat the hell are talking about?
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
___________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmOk, your logic stream seems to have been diverted to a holding pond.
Youre worried that Afghan women havent gained anything since the fall of the Taliban, so Ill have to wonder where you were BEFORE the Taliban were driven out since they were the worst of the worst in that regard.
Plain and simple, the left doesnt care two shats about anyone until they can be used for political gain; witness the deaths of Iraqis that the left wails about when half of them couldnt find Iraq on a map before 2003.
And you are completely wrong about blowing people up, war has done more to change people, cultures and governments than any other force in history. Hitler's Germany and Tojo's Japan being prime examples.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:53 pmComment by Candyce — August 3, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
What the f*ck is "Snopes," I got my info from the Guardian article, linked above. It says "schools," so I said "schools." No one lied, except for the schools in the UK that denied the Holocaust because they didn't want to offend sh*t*ating M*slims.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 pmSay the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Better check the spelling 1st...
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 pmBush: "Let's work together and get a compromise."
Reality: "You do what I tell you, or ELSE!"
Dems should just give him the middle-finger and leave. Seriously.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:55 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Grouser, this is an argument that has been rattling on between historians since the end of WWII. To start with, fighting in WWII was legitimate as sovereign nations were attacking and international law broken.
I think the problem we have with discussing earlier European war is that we are missing the context. A generation earlier we'd experienced the slaughter of WWI - only Germany envisaged a different war. Europe was also in the depths of the Great Recession so focus was on that.
I could go on for hours but I obviously would have preferred military involvement following the annex of the Sudetenland. However, the context of 1930's Europe meant it wasn't going to happen. Hitler read the situation superbly and achieved his goals.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:56 pmSay the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
I gratefully accept. Nothing brings on nonpartisan cooperation like a solidarity march!
Now we need a topic....ummmm....how about "Gummitch Cares More About Women Than John Edwards" (no small feat there).
Yes, I like it. Banners and porta-potties, lets get on it people!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:57 pmI think there is only one thing that we can do now…
Say the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
Comment by Theophrastos
Typical. Put on the spot where you need to support your blithering with logic and facts, you resort to childish games, seeking support of your fellow trolls.
Pathetic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:57 pmThey could play that game all August long if it pleases everyone. But then you won’t get that chance to meet your Congresspeople when they come back home during this month.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 3, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
It would also prevent Bru$ch from making any recess appointments... Doh!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 pmNow we need a topic….ummmm….how about “Gummitch Cares More About Women Than John Edwards†(no small feat there).
Yes, I like it. Banners and porta-potties, lets get on it people!
Comment by LibTeenie
Right on cue: Pathetic II
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 pmGummitch... can you bring the lattes?
Remember, I can only drink soy-milk!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:59 pmWhat the f*ck is “Snopes,†I got my info from the Guardian article, linked above. It says “schools,†so I said “schools.†No one lied, except for the schools in the UK that denied the Holocaust because they didn’t want to offend sh*t*ating M*slims.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
______________
Not teaching about the Holocaust is ridiculous. As someone said earlier, it is just like the attempt to remove the teaching of evolution from the schools, just because some religious group finds it offensive.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 pmI was just wondering since the allies didnt really have a clue as to the massive extent of Hitler's extermination programs until late in the war.
How would our nations have responded if Hitler had never invaded anyone or annexed territory yet we knew he was murdering everyone in sight.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 pmBush asked Congress to stay in session? This from the guy who takes a vacation when he gets a hangnail or a hangover. Hasn't he taken more vacations than any other president?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 pmI dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Or some fundalmentalist in Kansas has his eighteenth-century worldview turned upside down...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 pmI do believe that Gummitch is thrilled with the theme of our march. I say we nominate him as Master of Ceremonies, lets take a vote.
I voted aye and the ayes have it! Congratulations Big G!
This will be such a grand march...Im so excited!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:02 pmDoes anyone else get the idea that the trolls have conceded the argument?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:03 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
No one was ever "put on the spot" by you and crew of Islamic apologists.
1) One of you says that we should watch what we say because some sh*t*ater in Islamisandibad may see it one day.
2) I link an article to the Guardian which shows how the UK schools are scared of offending M*slim Holocaust deniers, and someone comes along with a link to "snopes" (whatever the hell that is) claiming it is an urban legend.
3) You say that it is wrong to enforce out values on these backwards sand-monkeys... but that something has to be done to stop the abuse of women!!!
The Left is defined by contradiction... Let's March!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:04 pmJeebus, do you and Gerald scope the same polls? Its a POLL, so show me the source for this number and we can move on with it, then explain how the public could meltdown over immigration in just one week but not do the same for the war in four years? Thats the point about the “silenceâ€; you want to live on the polls but its just a POLL.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
I see you have still not used Google... POLLs have nothing to do with counting politicl donations... This stupidity is why I refuse to look up the links for you neocons any more.... you are lazy and post links that discredit your own arguments because you are too lazy to read beyond the headline before you post it... and even when a complete slap down is provided you still refuse to change your stance like some rediculous child...
And guess what POLLs... are questions asked to PEOPLE not robots or whatever you try to insinuate about polling... polling provide real numbers about real answer real people gave to real questions... but like scientific numerical testing you only believe in your own gut BS... that way you never have to be wrong...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 pmOr some fundalmentalist in Kansas has his eighteenth-century worldview turned upside down…
Im with ya sister, though I dont recall any preachers in Kansas exhorting their congregation to martyr themselves against those who dont believe the way they do.
Our processes get worked out in the political realm instead of with an AK-47.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 pmHow would our nations have responded if Hitler had never invaded anyone or annexed territory yet we knew he was murdering everyone in sight.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
---------------
Well, like Rwanda... Clinton and the UN would have sat back and watched the exterminations. However, Bush isn't going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:08 pmAfghan women’s groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
"Historically, Iraqi women and girls have enjoyed relatively more rights than many of their counterparts in the Middle East. The Iraqi Provisional Constitution (drafted in 1970) formally guaranteed equal rights to women and other laws specifically ensured their right to vote, attend school, run for political office, and own property. Yet, since the 1991 Gulf War, the position of women within Iraqi society has deteriorated rapidly."
Hmmm....
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:09 pmWhen are the republicans going to stop supporting the people that attacked America on 911? Last I read they were about to send them billions in military weapons... providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Diverting America away from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan by leading us into Iraq... providing aid to the enemy? I think so...
Refusing to remove the leverage of forieng oil from the American economy even after 911... providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Using religious bigotry to stoke the fires of muslims that wouldnt normally lean towards extremism... providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:09 pmNo one was ever “put on the spot†by you and crew of Islamic apologists.
1) One of you says that we should watch what we say because some sh*t*ater in Islamisandibad may see it one day.
2) I link an article to the Guardian which shows how the UK schools are scared of offending M*slim Holocaust deniers, and someone comes along with a link to “snopes†(whatever the hell that is) claiming it is an urban legend.
3) You say that it is wrong to enforce out values on these backwards sand-monkeys… but that something has to be done to stop the abuse of women!!!
The Left is defined by contradiction… Let’s March!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:11 pmHowever, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
This is an absurd contention. First it was WMDs. Then was "exporting democracy". And the new "reason"? Stopping a genocide?
Perhaps you should have a menu, w/ a raison du jour on it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:11 pmHave you all figured out their belief that: anyone who does not support their insanity is against them and considered a target.They can pick who they target.They decide who they don't like.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:12 pmTheir war is really as simple as they say: us against them.
But their "us" is the very few bushcons and their "them" is the whole world now.
Using religious bigotry to stoke the fires of muslims that wouldnt normally lean towards extremism… providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Oh no, we wouldn't want to stoke the fires of our enemy...
Hell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:13 pmWell, like Rwanda… Clinton and the UN would have sat back and watched the exterminations. However, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:13 pmLessee if I've got this right.,.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:14 pmThe courts said that the existing way Bushits are conducting surveillance without warrants is illegal.
So they demand a bill to make the illegal warrantless wiretaps legal?
They want the judicial review AFTER the fact, when the privacy violations have already occurred?
That's like breaking into someone's home, then asking the legislature to say, hey, it's OK, they didn't take the stereo!
Our processes get worked out in the political realm instead of with an AK-47.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Apparently you know very little about western history or you dont realize that most of the world is still behind America in modernization... if you grew up in the boonies in Kansas and compared that to growing up in the boonies in Pakistan you would know that rule of law in most of the world is looked the same way the bushies look at it...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pmHell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pm"Snopes" is a family in William Faulkner's work. The archtypical decaying, inbred Southern family. They're all thru his work.
It is also the name of a website that debunks urban myths, legends, rumors...
Try Google.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pmHell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos —
Well now, isn't that a sweet little racist!
Sorta like "Where's all the white women?!!"
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
I am trying to write back but TP keeps rejecting my posts!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:16 pmWell, like Rwanda… Clinton and the UN would have sat back and watched the exterminations. However, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
Comment by Theophrastos
Last I checked Iraqis are adults... just like Americans were during our civil war... it really isnt any of our business.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:16 pmLessee if I’ve got this right.,.
The courts said that the existing way Bushits are conducting surveillance without warrants is illegal.
So they demand a bill to make the illegal warrantless wiretaps legal?
They want the judicial review AFTER the fact, when the privacy violations have already occurred?
That’s like breaking into someone’s home, then asking the legislature to say, hey, it’s OK, they didn’t take the stereo!
Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Like I said before, the Reps are following the letter of the law but the Left still complains....
Typical.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:16 pmThe courts said that the existing way Bushits are conducting surveillance without warrants is illegal.
Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Like I said before, the Reps are following the letter of the law but the Left still complains….
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
_____________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmThat’s like breaking into someone’s home, then asking the legislature to say, hey, it’s OK, they didn’t take the stereo!
Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Anybody up on "ex post facto" here? Isn't that expressly forbiddne in the Constitution? Just asking...
United States
Prohibited by Article I section 9 (applying to federal law) and section 10 (applying to state law) of the U.S. Constitution. Over the years, when deciding ex post facto cases, the United States Supreme Court has referred repeatedly to its ruling in the Calder v. Bull case of 1798, in which Justice Chase established four categories of unconstitutional ex post facto laws - Wikipedia
Damn that Constitution.... damn that Wikipedia
Why do the Constitution and Wikipedia hate America so?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmDont worry about Pakistan, Gerald, just vote for Obama and he will invade and take care of things.
Sure hope he doesnt stoke muslim enmity by invading a muslim country. Oh wait, hes s democrat and therefore allowed to be a warmonger.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmI am trying to write back but TP keeps rejecting my posts!
Comment by UKBristolDave
If I write anything at length, I save it as a text file because of the disappearing post phenomenon. But always check to see that name and email haven't suddenly been un-cached. There is no error message, just no post.
Irritating.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:19 pmDont worry about Pakistan, Gerald, just vote for Obama and he will invade and take care of things.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:19 pmLike I said before, the Reps are following the letter of the law but the Left still complains….
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
So, please explain this CLEARLY... I want to hear it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:19 pmA day will come when this Evil Admin cannot wiggle out of something.
Very soon this will happen.
A Day of Bright Light will shine.
And the Mendacity of these Thugs will be on display.
That day is coming.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:20 pmOh no, we wouldn’t want to stoke the fires of our enemy…
Hell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos
At least you don't have to worry about that one. Maybe if you'd written "our moms" it would have parsed.
I'm pretty sure there are strictures in the Koran about blow-up love dolls, so you're probably safe.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:20 pmIrritating, this post disappearing thing.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 pmLast I checked Iraqis are adults… just like Americans were during our civil war… it really isnt any of our business.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
--------------------
Well, according to Michael Ware the reason that there has been a relative drop in sectarian violence is that the US forces are "big baby-sitters," so maybe if the Iraqis started to act like adults, they would be recognized as adults. As of now even Michael Ware is implying that they are big babies.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 pmz e r o
a c c o u n t a b i l i t y
f e d e r a l o f f e n d e r s , o n e a n d a l l
i f t h e s e s o b s g e t o f f t h e h o o k f o r t h e i r c r i m e s . . . .
l o o k o u t i n 0 9 . . . t h e y ' l l d o a n y t h i n g a n d g e t
o f f s c o t t f r e e . . . . j u s t l i k e n o w
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:23 pmWell, according to Michael Ware the reason that there has been a relative drop in sectarian violence is that the US forces are “big baby-sitters,†so maybe if the Iraqis started to act like adults, they would be recognized as adults. As of now even Michael Ware is implying that they are big babies.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
___________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:23 pmOk, now Im fully irritated so its time to break for a nice bucket of Pacificos and a burger.
Thanks for the light discussion UKdave, Ill see ya around.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:23 pmComment by Theophrastos
So the logical understanding of your point is that you do want to stoke your enemies fires? Why is that? We aren't engaged in a traditional war where armies fight armies on the battlefield. We are engaged in urban warfare where the enemy can only survive with the support of the local population. Surely it makes sense to win over the local population?
Just a thought.....
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:24 pmLet me get this straight. . . . Bush is demanding that congress stay in session to legalize his illegal activity, which, if they are not totally stupid they will ignore and recess anyway. So that he can do what exactly? Do they stay or go? Which is better? Is this Karl's attempt at checkmate? Or do we still have a constitution? My own Senator denies a need for impeachment. I will try to convince him that they cannot be trusted under any circumstances. I have no hope this will actually happen (I have attempted this before).
Can we drop copies of the constitution on Washington from a small plane--or at least deliver them to "our representatives" once they safely deploy to their home districts? Is there nothing that will make them listen? Impeachment is the only thing that will stop this crap. I am really fed up. We need lot's of action, but too many are off to yearlykos and the real news is slim.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:24 pmOh wait, hes s democrat and therefore allowed to be a warmonger.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
Irrational, dishonest comment.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:25 pmSure hope he doesnt stoke muslim enmity by invading a muslim country. Oh wait, hes s democrat and therefore allowed to be a warmonger.
Comment by LibTeenie
Invading a country is only ONE solution... just killing Osama is another... I understand you can only handle one thought at a time but try to keep up...
If Obama did what bush did he would deserve to be impeached and imprisoned just like bush should be.
Last I checked we are not at WAR with a NATION...
I would suggest people not vote for Obama... nor anyone unless they are willing to tell the truth straight up... the only one so far is Ron Paul... maybe he will shame the others into trying it out...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:27 pmJust a thought…..
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
--------------
If you stoke the embers, you can see what is still burning, then you can determine which M*slims need to go.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:28 pmIrrational, dishonest comment.
Sure, and when the DU and KOS crowd, along with Sheehan and the Code Pink morons start rampaging through Obama stump appearances demanding his resignation, then Ill believe you. Right now, its silence, why is that?
If Bush had said such a thing you would be going bata$$ crazy on this site. You did understand the ramifications of what Obama said didnt you, invading a sovereign muslim nation to attack terrorists, or was he full of shat and simply pandering?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:29 pmIf you stoke the embers, you can see what is still burning, then you can determine which M*slims need to go.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
__________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:29 pmYou did understand the ramifications of what Obama said didnt you, invading a sovereign muslim nation to attack terrorists, or was he full of shat and simply pandering?
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
I'm not referring to what Obama said or meant. I'm referring to YOUR irrational rhetoric, period. My statement stands. Your comment was dishonest and irrational.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:31 pmWell, according to Michael Ware the reason that there has been a relative drop in sectarian violence is that the US forces are “big baby-sitters,†so maybe if the Iraqis started to act like adults, they would be recognized as adults. As of now even Michael Ware is implying that they are big babies.
Comment by Theophrastos
Who gives a crap what he has to say about anything? Americans didnt want outside intervention in our civil war.
The Iraqis are going to settle their differences no matter what the retarded bushies do.
No amount of help the Iraqis now that we have brought them chaos is going to change the fact that the bushies planed this Iraq thing in the 1990s for oil...
Through the neocons in prison and let the Iraqis determine their own fate ... that is what REAL Americans believe ... people are the determiners of their OWN fate...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:31 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
We are moving into horrifically simple metaphor land here but if we keep stoking the embers then we are going to make the fire blaze up again.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
So I take it that you want to see an all out pan-M*slim war?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:33 pmWe are moving into horrifically simple metaphor land here but if we keep stoking the embers then we are going to make the fire blaze up again.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
------------------------------------------------
So you are saying that you are willing to give up your rights, in order to stop terrorists?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:34 pmSo I take it that you want to see an all out pan-M*slim war?
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
_________________
Arming the Saudis should help make that a reality.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:35 pmSo I take it that you want to see an all out pan-M*slim war?
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
What the hell is an "all out pan-M*slim war"?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:35 pmI would suggest people not vote for Obama… nor anyone unless they are willing to tell the truth straight up… the only one so far is Ron Paul… maybe he will shame the others into trying it out…
Ron Paul also said this:
"While good white people like himself are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational.â€
and this:
"heavy cocaine use causes Bill Clinton’s scratchy voice"
and this about the city of D.C.:
"I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal"
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:35 pmIf Bush had said such a thing you would be going bata$$ crazy on this site. You did understand the ramifications of what Obama said didnt you, invading a sovereign muslim nation to attack terrorists, or was he full of shat and simply pandering?
Comment by LibTeenie
Are you freakin crazy? We on this site and people all across America have been asking WHY NOT GO AFTER OSAMA???? For along long time... It was being discussed before Iraq started... at one point Saudi Arabia sent people to come speak on American talk shows claiming they shouldnt be blamed for 911...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:35 pmSo I take it that you want to see an all out pan-M*slim war?
Comment by Theophrastos
Whatever.... as long as we free ourselves from their oil... its their business... why dont you genius neocons invent a time machine and go back and save Jesus and every other human being wrong in the past 20,000 years.... christ you are unrealistic...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:38 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
Of course not. I think we must have got our metaphors mixed up. I'm 29 and I've spent my whole life with someone wanting to blow me up. It used to be Irish nationalists, it's currently the extremist Muslims, next week it could be Cornish Nationalists. Big freaking deal. The very fact we are talking about them empowers the nutters. They thrive on fear and a disproportionate response. Both the US and the UK have played into their hands, we now have a situation that will take a couple of generations to sort out and we all should be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:40 pmComment by CowTown
Last I checked 1 & 3 have been debunked and I never heard #2 though if Ron Paul said it ....it is probably true...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:40 pmSo I take it that you want to see an all out pan-M*slim war?
Comment by Theophrastos
Whatever…. as long as we free ourselves from their oil… its their business… why dont you genius neocons invent a time machine and go back and save Jesus and every other human being wrong in the past 20,000 years…. christ you are unrealistic…
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
-------
Alright, as long as you realize what the results of withdrawal will be. I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you... it ain't gonna happen, not with the Dems. not with the Reps.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:41 pm"I hope that there are no attacks before we are able to effectively update this important act," said Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, top Republican on the House Judiciary Committee.
I'm so damned tired of these lying b*ast*rds. No one ever said, "No surveillance". We just want some oversight. OVERSIGHT!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:41 pmAlright, as long as you realize what the results of withdrawal will be. I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you… it ain’t gonna happen, not with the Dems. not with the Reps.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
_______________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:42 pmAlright, as long as you realize what the results of withdrawal will be. I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you… it ain’t gonna happen, not with the Dems. not with the Reps.
Comment by Theophrastos
Ya the Dems BSed us... I and the people I talked to before the last November elections that voted for the Dems (even a few republicans I know) didnt see any reason to believe they would take the Constitutional route... but anything would be better than just letting bushines continue to march us down the road to Rome... I guess we just have to wait until the 2nd amendment is all we got...
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:44 pmTP has a strange filtering device that rejects some posts, or occasionally a TP staffer watches the thread for a few minutes and deletes a post or two.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:45 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
Why should we be ashamed? Saddam suppressed the conflict through tryanny. But then he started mouthin' off, so we killed him. We aren't responsible for the age old desputes, we were perfectly justified in all that we have done. Now there are people killing each other because of some stupid religious sh*t and we are lending a hand, trying to save lives.
I'm proud of my country!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:46 pmYa the Dems BSed us…
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
________________
Agreed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:46 pmBoth the US and the UK have played into their hands, we now have a situation that will take a couple of generations to sort out and we all should be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves.
You must have missed the previous few decades when muslim extremists were busy slaughtering people all over the globe. This is not a new problem, merely a new excuse in a long line of excuses.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:46 pmWhy should we be ashamed? Saddam suppressed the conflict through tryanny. But then he started mouthin’ off, so we killed him. We aren’t responsible for the age old desputes, we were perfectly justified in all that we have done. Now there are people killing each other because of some stupid religious sh*t and we are lending a hand, trying to save lives.
I’m proud of my country!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:47 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
I'm on the left but Theo is right. If we (the US and the UK) withdraw before Iraq has a stable security environment then we are condemning perhaps hundreds of thousands of people to death and further destabilishing the middle east.
The mission should be to create a strong, impartial security for Iraq. If we don't do that then we have failed miserably
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:48 pmComment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
I was fully awake through it all. However, at no point did we provide the purest of propoganda for the extremists. To move on we have to accept that we screwed up royally.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:50 pmI guess I will have to believe you, Dave.
I can't get hold of the Psychic Network right now.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:51 pmComment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
So what don't you believe?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:57 pmI’m on the left but Theo is right. If we (the US and the UK) withdraw before Iraq has a stable security environment then we are condemning perhaps hundreds of thousands of people to death and further destabilishing the middle east.
The mission should be to create a strong, impartial security for Iraq. If we don’t do that then we have failed miserably
Comment by UKBristolDave
You're young enough to serve in the military, and if you feel this way, I'd suggest you sign up. Kiss the wife and kiddies (if you've got them) goodbye, because you won't see them again for at least a decade.
Your desires are noble, but the reality is that the Bush administration has demonstrated that they are utterly incapable of pulling this off. Hell, they can't even provide the people in Baghdad with electricity and water, four years after the invasion. They built buildings in which sh!t leaked through the ceilings. They allowed the insurgents to carry off vast supplies of arms. They have repeatedly refused offers of assistance in stabilizing the area from the neighboring countries with the greatest interest in a whole and quiet Iraq.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:57 pmIf Congress refuses, does that mean they can charge the Bushies with crimes in February 2009?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:01 pmThe current FISA legislation expires September 30, 2007. Congress to Bush: "Eat Me; here's our bill". You think Bush is going to cancel is vacation to Kennebunkport?
And the caveat that Gonzo be given an expanded role to oversee the program is comical in light of Gonzo's past performance on anything.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:03 pmI was fully awake through it all. However, at no point did we provide the purest of propoganda for the extremists. To move on we have to accept that we screwed up royally.
We provided it every day, by our existence and our support of Israel. It didnt seem to take much for a terrorist to throw a wheelchair-bound man off a ship or to murder a dozen Israeli athletes.
We have been soaking up atrocities and casualties from muslim terrorists for decades, seeming to accept such things as a necessary evil to endure. Meanwhile the really fearsome terrorist groups were metastasizing under our very noses, all because of that acceptance.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:03 pmThey have repeatedly refused offers of assistance in stabilizing the area from the neighboring countries with the greatest interest in a whole and quiet Iraq.
And of course we can trust these nations, presumably you mean Syria and Iran, to have sincere and altruistic motives when they offer to help? Syria especially, a nation which subjugated their neighbor Lebanon for thirty years?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:06 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
I keep trying to post a response and it won't come through
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:11 pm"...we were perfectly justified in all that we have done..."
I’m proud of my country!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
You're out of your F-ing mind.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:11 pmWe have been soaking up atrocities and casualties from muslim terrorists for decades, seeming to accept such things as a necessary evil to endure. Meanwhile the really fearsome terrorist groups were metastasizing under our very noses, all because of that acceptance.
Comment by CowTown
Under our very noses because we trained them and provided them with weapons.
Nice attempt at rewriting history.
Leon Klinghoffer was thrown off the Achille Lauro in 1985. In the intervening years, the US government has supplied weapons and funding to Iraq, Iran and the mujahaddin that morphed into the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:12 pmIf Congress refuses, does that mean they can charge the Bushies with crimes in February 2009?
Comment by david — August 3, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
I would certainly hope so.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:13 pmThey have repeatedly refused offers of assistance in stabilizing the area from the neighboring countries with the greatest interest in a whole and quiet Iraq.
And of course we can trust these nations, presumably you mean Syria and Iran, to have sincere and altruistic motives when they offer to help? Syria especially, a nation which subjugated their neighbor Lebanon for thirty years?
Comment by CowTown
Who said anything about altruism? All nations have their own best interests at heart. Altruism has nothing to do with it. Irrelevant.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:15 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
I will try again
My point isn't about more of our armed forces but training up the Iraqi security services so we can withdraw.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:19 pmWho said anything about altruism? All nations have their own best interests at heart. Altruism has nothing to do with it. Irrelevant.
Then we would be ignoring long-term strategic influences for short-term expediency. Are we ready to turn Iraq over to a country (Iran) that will make Iraq a subject state of theirs, perhaps even another mullacracy?
Would you trust a man like Ahmadinejad to take an even hand with a freely-chosen Iraqi government when his own is so corrupt and brutal?
Simply saying "help us no matter the cost" is short-sighted and naive to the realities of countries like Syria and Iran.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 pmComment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
I agree. So what should we do?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:23 pm"Would you trust a man like Ahmadinejad to take an even hand with a freely-chosen Iraqi government when his own is so corrupt and brutal?"
Bush, meet kettle.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:24 pmMy point isn’t about more of our armed forces but training up the Iraqi security services so we can withdraw.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
Why don't they partition the country? It's not like "Iraq" is a sovereign country w/ hundreds of years of history. It's a "monster" basically created by the Brits for tehir own political benefit following WW II.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:26 pmNice attempt at rewriting history.
Leon Klinghoffer was thrown off the Achille Lauro in 1985. In the intervening years, the US government has supplied weapons and funding to Iraq, Iran and the mujahaddin that morphed into the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
No rewrite, we didnt train anyone to blow themselves up in a market, nor to shoot Israeli kids while strapped in their car seats.
We always knew that we were treading a thin line when dealing with ME governments, its the high-stakes world game we have always had to play, the game played by every country since men started waging war on one another.
Mistakes have been made and people have become enemies of ours after being allies, we once gave weapons to Stalin to fight our immediate German enemy.
Our failure was not destroying these groups when the turned on us, and not all of them did, because of diplomatic concerns. Pretending that we should still have those concerns, in a world packed tight with WMD and the fanatics willing to use them indiscriminately, is foolish.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 3, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
Not meaning to be anal but it was post WWI. I agree though, Iraq is a British Empire balls up.
Partition is an option but they argument will all be about who gets the oil rightss.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:28 pm"Would you trust a man like Ahmadinejad to take an even hand with a freely-chosen Iraqi government when his own is so corrupt and brutal?"
Well, with Bush as an example of "evenhandedness," he couldn't do much worse, in Iraq. Bush is now playing footsie with the Turks, to keep them from a larger-scale invasion of the Kurdish areas, something that will go over like a lead balloon with the Kurdish members of Iraq's military.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:29 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Well, first we should shatter the sectarian identities of the Iraqi people, then give them good Western style educations, then establish a long term alliance with them.
Oh, and all this requires NOT abandoning Iraq to alkaida or Iran et al.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:29 pmI agree. So what should we do?
As you said, get them stable enough to build on what they have and perhaps provide ourselves as very visible allies to dissuade menacing neighbors from getting involved.
Wont be easy, that much is obvious, nor should we wail and moan about what got us here. We are here now and there isnt any going back so lets deal with the present and make the best of it that we can.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:30 pmThe Senate just caved...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/03/fisa.upgrade.ap/index.html
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:30 pmI'll be back in a minute. My dog has to take a TRoS post.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:30 pmThen we would be ignoring long-term strategic influences for short-term expediency. Are we ready to turn Iraq over to a country (Iran) that will make Iraq a subject state of theirs, perhaps even another mullacracy?
Would you trust a man like Ahmadinejad to take an even hand with a freely-chosen Iraqi government when his own is so corrupt and brutal?
Simply saying “help us no matter the cost†is short-sighted and naive to the realities of countries like Syria and Iran.
Comment by CowTown
US interests in the Middle East can be summed up in one word: oil. If Iraq becomes a Shiite state (ha! riiiight), all we really care about in the long term is whether they sell us oil. There is no evidence to suggest they wouldn't.
The president of Iran is a relatively impotent position. We like to demonize him here in the US, but in reality, he's in a tenuous position in Iran. The USG has dealt with any number of far more dangerous tyrants, many many times. Bush and his cronies are trying to make him look like Satan himself, but that's strictly propaganda. You would do yourself a service to learn something (hell, anything) before making yourself a mouthpiece for the Bushies.
"Help us no matter the cost"? Where do you come up with this sh!t?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:30 pmAre we ready to turn Iraq over to a country (Iran) that will make Iraq a subject state of theirs, perhaps even another mullacracy?
Comment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
Article 7A: "Islam is the official religion of the State and is to be considered a source of legislation. No law that contradicts the universally agreed tenets of Islam, the principles of democracy, or the rights cited in Chapter Two of this Law may be enacted during the transitional period. This Law respects the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people and guarantees the full religious rights of all individuals to freedom of religious belief and practice."
What makes you think the Iraqis want the Iranians to take over?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm"No rewrite, we didnt train anyone to blow themselves up in a market, nor to shoot Israeli kids while strapped in their car seats."
Ever heard of the College of the Americas? Isn't that where we train our terrorists?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:32 pmWell, first we should shatter the sectarian identities of the Iraqi people, then give them good Western style educations, then establish a long term alliance with them.
Oh, and all this requires NOT abandoning Iraq to alkaida or Iran et al.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
Holy shit, you are f*cking unreal. People like you are the reason al qeada exists.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 pmI’ll be back in a minute. My dog has to take a TRoS post.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Oh gosh... that's so CLEVER. Almost as funny as the time Pippy Trollstockings claimed that the Saudis weren't Moslems...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 pmOur failure was not destroying these groups when the turned on us, and not all of them did, because of diplomatic concerns. Pretending that we should still have those concerns, in a world packed tight with WMD and the fanatics willing to use them indiscriminately, is foolish.
Comment by CowTown
Nice work completely avoiding the point.
The US government has been responsible not for failing to "destroy groups" but by actively supporting them when the brain trust in DC thought it would advance American interests. The simple truth is that is hasn't worked. "realpolitik" is bullsh!t, plain and simple.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 pmWell, with Bush as an example of “evenhandedness,†he couldn’t do much worse, in Iraq.
Actually he could, and does, everyday and you know it. Try being a homosexual or rape victim in today's Iran and see what happens. Better yet, try to do something that everyday you take for granted, such as wearing what you want outside.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 pmPeople like you are the reason al qeada exists.
Comment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
And ya know something, Zooey? He'll NEVER get it.
He's always so busy calling us Stalinists, but advocates CRUSHING the identity of an entire group for political reasons. Kind of amazing, isn't it?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:35 pm"Well, first we should shatter the sectarian identities of the Iraqi people, then give them good Western style educations, then establish a long term alliance with them."
The cleaner version of "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
Good luck "shattering" tribal ties that go back to before the founding of Islam.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:35 pmComment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
I agree, Zooey. To which frequency are their tin-foil hats tuned?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 pm" Better yet, try to do something that everyday you take for granted, such as wearing what you want outside."
Comment by CowTown
You mean like the Crips and the Bloods?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 pmComment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Fully agree that we have to deal with the here and now. Everyone knows who screwed up so lets look to the future.
The only possible future is a stable Iraq government. Offer people a future and they will take it. At the moment they have nothing.
Theophrastos - you don't really get it do you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 pmWont be easy, that much is obvious, nor should we wail and moan about what got us here.
Comment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
That's the spirit! No need to hold anybody accountable for their lies!!! If we have to kill them all, we just have to kill them all!
If only Defeatocrats would just see this!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:38 pmAnd ya know something, Zooey? He’ll NEVER get it.
He’s always so busy calling us Stalinists, but advocates CRUSHING the identity of an entire group for political reasons. Kind of amazing, isn’t it?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 3, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
It's absolutely stunning. Just imagine if someone tried that HERE. I think we'd be blasting the shit out of them too.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 pmYou mean like the Crips and the Bloods?
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Or those folks thrown out of Repub rallies because of t-shirts or buttons?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 pmYou would do yourself a service to learn something (hell, anything) before making yourself a mouthpiece for the Bushies.
Alright, I can see you have decided to degenerate during this conversation, something that always seems to happen when Im here. No wonder I show up infrequently, I manage to attract the hostile bitter people.
So thats it for you and I tonight, though Im sure youll flame me for it; I dont have time for frothing hyperbole or wild conspiracies, perhaps one of the others here will take your abuse?
Hey UKDave, anything rational to offer, you seem reasonable and cogent?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:40 pmWell, first we should shatter the sectarian identities of the Iraqi people, then give them good Western style educations, then establish a long term alliance with them.
Oh, and all this requires NOT abandoning Iraq to alkaida or Iran et al.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
Holy shit, you are f*cking unreal. People like you are the reason al qeada exists.
Comment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
-----------------------------------------
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:40 pmThat's truth, whether you like it or not. What to you do with a psychotic killer? You punish him, and give him psychological "help," in other words you deprogram him, and reprogram him with the help of propaganda.
What do you do with a country filled with psychotic killers...
You get the point.
The Future Belongs To The Free!!!
God Bless America!!!!
It’s absolutely stunning. Just imagine if someone tried that HERE. I think we’d be blasting the shit out of them too.
Comment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
Kind of underscores the depths of the problem on this end. Ya have to wonder, are we all speaking English here?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:40 pmThe cleaner version of “we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.â€
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
Sounds like our visitor "Theophrastos" is another Ann Coulter wannabe, like "michael" (Ann Coulter herself).
I wonder if he's any relation to Theophrastus, the Greek philosopher and natural scientist (or, as it is known today, "Unemployed".)
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:40 pm"Or those folks thrown out of Repub rallies because of t-shirts or buttons?"
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Try walking into a Texas bar with an Oklahoma State t-shirt on...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:41 pmTheophrastos - you don’t really get it do you?
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
------------------------------
I understand what needs to be done. This problem is in the blood and souls of these people, it needs to be handled with more than just military force.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 pmComment by CowTown — August 3, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
Love to join in but its nearly 03:45 in the UK and I need some kip.
Cheers
Dave
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 pmI agree, Zooey. To which frequency are their tin-foil hats tuned?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 3, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
All Ann Coulter all the time.
Unbelievable.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 pmGoodnight, UKDave!
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:43 pmLook people, this war can not be won with military force alone!
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:43 pmI find it interesting that people find it OK to conduct mass spying on any foreign communications that travel through the US. Doesn't it seem logical that our spying on any foreigner of interest to us enables any and all foreign governments to spy on any US communications that pass through their territory? Doesn't that bother anyone?
Much like kidnapping others at will ("extraordinary renditions"), imprisoning others without cause and without recourse (Gitmo) and torturing whomever we feel the need to torture to meet our needs and goals - all we're doing is building up hate and distrust of the US and giving free reign to other governments to do the same to us, with impunity.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:45 pm"I understand what needs to be done. "
And after everything goes to hell, he'll look down at all the fresh corpses with a sneering disdain, and say: "Now look what you made me do!
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:46 pmGoodnight UKDave! Thanks for coming by.
Zooey, how sad for them. To get their ideas of right and wrong from a known plagiarist just shows they weren't paying attention to the "good sources" instructions. I mean, if you want facts, I have no idea in the world why you would listen to Ann Coulter.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:46 pmComment by gsidaho — August 3, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
Except for the fact that we are better and we make the rules, so I'm not that worried.
You ol' worry wart!
Lefties...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:47 pmThe Future Belongs To The Free!!!
God Bless America!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
God with us!
... this future belongs to us completely.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:47 pmThat’s truth, whether you like it or not. What to you do with a psychotic killer? You punish him, and give him psychological “help,†in other words you deprogram him, and reprogram him with the help of propaganda.
What do you do with a country filled with psychotic killers…
You get the point.
The Future Belongs To The Free!!!
God Bless America!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
It is not the truth, Pee. Who the hell do you think you are proposing to crush a people and make them over in our image?
IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US!! That's the truth.
IT WAS, AND STILL IS, WRONG FOR US TO BE IN IRAQ!! That's the truth.
You are disgusting.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:47 pmLook people, this war can not be won with military force alone!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Let's try to see where our points of view diverge, shall we?
Why, exactly, do you view this as a "war"? Because they do? Or because President Bush does?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:47 pmComment by Zooey
Take a chill pill
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:49 pm"Take a chill pill"
Comment by Theophrastos
Quit swigging the Jingo Juice...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:50 pmI agree, Zooey. To which frequency are their tin-foil hats tuned?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
No tinfoil needed they plug directly to AC, electroshock style. heh
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:50 pmReal Terrorists do not communicate in open telephone conversations, so Bush wants to data-mine his political opponents phone calls, plus dig up dirt on everybody in Congress. If Pelosi and Reid pass this reform of FISA, then they agree to allow Bush to spy on them.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:51 pmWhy, exactly, do you view this as a “war� Because they do? Or because President Bush does?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 3, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"War" is a metaphor. I understand it to mean, the use of any and all force (military, diplomatic, etc.) to bring an end to terrorism. I do not view it as a "war" in the traditional sense of the word, there will be no treaties signed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:51 pmAFGHANISTAN DIDNT ATTACK US EITHER!! Thats the truth.
SERBIA DIDNT ATTACK US EITHER!! Thats the truth.
IT WAS, AND STILL IS, WRONG FOR US TO BE IN AFGHANISTAN AND SERBIA!! Thats the truth.
Disgustedness for everyone, take a handful.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:51 pmDisgustedness for everyone, take a handful.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
Back w/ the irrational comparisons...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:54 pmAlright, I can see you have decided to degenerate during this conversation, something that always seems to happen when Im here. No wonder I show up infrequently, I manage to attract the hostile bitter people.
So thats it for you and I tonight, though Im sure youll flame me for it; I dont have time for frothing hyperbole or wild conspiracies, perhaps one of the others here will take your abuse?
Hey UKDave, anything rational to offer, you seem reasonable and cogent?
Comment by CowTown
"Wild conspiracies"? "Frothing hyperbole"? "Abuse"?
Run away, child. The United States government, largely during Republican administrations, is responsible for sending weapons and funding to Iraq, Iran and the nascient Taliban.
Pretend none of that happened, if that's what it takes for you to rationalize the world. And emulate Ann Coulter by casting yourself as some kind of victim.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:55 pm"IT WAS, AND STILL IS, WRONG FOR US TO BE IN AFGHANISTAN AND SERBIA!!"
And the Phillipines.
And Samoa.
And Germany.
The Netherlands.
Belgium.
And that hotbed of terrorism, Tiera Del Fuego...
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:57 pmAFGHANISTAN DIDNT ATTACK US EITHER!! Thats the truth.
Comment by LibTeenie
Al Qaeda and helped by the Taliban, were behind the US Embasy Bombings and the USS Cole bombing.
They already murdered 100s of innocents, Afghanistan was a rightous move IMHO.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:58 pmThe problem there is they dropped the ball, Georgie got distracted by something shiny ( as in Corporate Gold ), called Iraq.
and that hotbed of terrorism, Tiera Del Fuego…
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 10:57 pm
Tiera Del Fuego? Didn't she used to sing harmony for The Del Fuegos?
And what about the Far-flung Isles of Langerhans?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:00 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 3, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
They're not interested in facts either, Wayne. So why they follow that cow is beyond understanding.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 pmIt looks like we need to have another satire awareness march...
I'll make the banners!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 pmAl Qaeda and helped by the Taliban, were behind the US Embasy Bombings and the USS Cole bombing.
They already murdered 100s of innocents, Afghanistan was a rightous move IMHO.
The problem there is they dropped the ball, Georgie got distracted by something shiny ( as in Corporate Gold ), called Iraq.
Comment by Wayne — August 3, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
Careful, Wayne... you're resorting to "facts"...
Why do "facts" hate America so?
Hey, anybody want some Freedom fires?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:02 pmTake a chill pill
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
F*ck off, you bloodthirsty piss-soaked troll.
You can't even have a normal conversation without your authoritarian bent showing. You are pathetic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:04 pmWhy does "satire" hate America so?
Hey, Theophrastos... are you just "dissenting" against "liberal tyranny"?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:04 pmMake that fries... Freedom fries...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:05 pmIt looks like we need to have another satire awareness march…
I’ll make the banners!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
why don't you pinpoint the "satire," dingleberry?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:05 pmI'm sorry, Zo Zo.
Come here so I can give you a smoocheroo!
{smooch}{smooch}{SMOOCH}
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:06 pmAl Qaeda and helped by the Taliban, were behind the US Embasy Bombings and the USS Cole bombing.
They already murdered 100s of innocents, Afghanistan was a rightous move IMHO.
Agreed, righteous in the extreme.
Hezbollah massacred hundreds of US Marines in Lebanon as well as dozens of other attacks against us and our allies that have killed hundreds if not thousands; they are headquartered in and supported by Iran.
We should righteously invade Iran. IYHO, yes or no?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:06 pmBush (that is, Karl Rove) didn't want an agreement. The idea was to a) keep Democrats from going home where they can kick the crap out of the Republicans for siding with Bush on Iraq and, more importantly, b) use this as a way to try to 'catapult the propaganda' that Democrats don't want to do anything about surveillance of terrorists.
It was so botched that the White House had to kill an agreement that was already made in order to make it possible for them to lie to the country and say "See, the Democrats wouldn't agree with us on the FISA bill."
I guess we'll have to wait until Sunday morning to find out if dumb f*cks like Russert are going to swallow that crap.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:07 pmYes Theo, its time for a march.
A SOLIDARITY MARCH!! Thats the truth.
Bring banners and porta-potties...come on people, chop chop! Marches need organization and planning, lets gooooo!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:08 pmThe March to Celebrate the Trolls Being Out of Ammunition.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:09 pmComment by chimpeach — August 3, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
OooO... ooOo... oOOooOO.. AAaaaAAa!!!! AAaa!!! AaaaAaa!!!!!
CHIMPEACH!!!!!!!! CHIMPEACH!!!!!!!!! CHIMPEACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAaAH!!!!! AAHaAAA!!!!!!!! AaaAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 pmHezbollah massacred hundreds of US Marines in Lebanon as well as dozens of other attacks against us and our allies that have killed hundreds if not thousands; they are headquartered in... Iran.
Hezbollah[1] (Arabic: Øزب الله ḥizbu-llÄh,[2] literally "party of God") is a Shi'a Islamic political and paramilitary organization based in Lebanon.
Hmmm... invade Lebanon, anyone? No doubt some of these groups are getting aid from Russia too. Attack them also?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 pmF*ck off, you bloodthirsty piss-soaked troll.
Tell you what Theo, I think Cow got out of here just in time, there is some serious liberal regression happening here.
How about we have a solidarity march down to the Capitol, we can call it "Cow Saw It Coming"?
Banners man, banners! Quicktime!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 pmchimpeach, since gumbo is gone, can you bring the lattes?
soy-milk, as always.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 pmI AM SICK AND TIRED OF FEELING BETRAYED, LIED TO, DISHONESTY FROM BOTH PARTIES, READING THE HEADLINES EVERYDAY ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE GETTING SCREWED UP. KNOW WHY THERE IS SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE FUTURE, BECAUSE THIS GOVERNMENT DOESN'T GIVE A #$%^%@ ABOUT ANYONE. FORGET ABOUT POINTING FINGERS WHEN IS CONGRESS GOING TO TAKE A STAND ON SOMETHING AND STICK TO IT -THEY ARE COWARDS AND I HOPE YOU READ THIS BECAUSE YOU WORK FOR US AND YOU WILL BE OUT A JOB NEXT YEAR - GUARANTEED!!!!! IF YOU GUYS DON'T START FIGHTING BACK. GOT IT???:"
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 pmNot being that familiar with this idea, can the president force congress into session, or to stay in session?
Comment by Krazny — August 3, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
Yep.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses.
The Senate has already passed the bill, haul Pelosi back!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 pmWe should righteously invade Iran. IYHO, yes or no?
Comment by LibTeenie
Strawman, and there is no direct proof Iran was behind that.
Facts are important, the truth is important.
Lies are what were behind Iraq, we can't afford another war started on lies.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 pmBring banners and porta-potties…come on people, chop chop! Marches need organization and planning, lets gooooo!
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
You and Theo and ah, "Surrender Monkey" can start marching anytime you like. Better wait for "Surrender Monkey" to finish, ah, how can we say this politely... "gratifying himself" in the bushes first...
Please, dissent...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:13 pmHmmm… invade Lebanon, anyone? No doubt some of these groups are getting aid from Russia too. Attack them also?
Alright, we invade Lebanon and Iran just so we can keep this righteousness on a roll, IMHO (hat tip: wayne).
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:13 pmIn the 1970s when Congress found out the same things were going on… that is why they passed FISA.
And now they are passing a new law for new times, that overrides FISA's outdated nonsense.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:14 pmTell you what Theo, I think Cow got out of here just in time, there is some serious liberal regression happening here.
Yep. This is when all of the irrelevant and hateful libs come out...
Wait, no that's not right. All libs are irrelevant and hateful.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:14 pmComment by wondering in maryland — August 3, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
What?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:16 pmAlright, we invade Lebanon and Iran just so we can keep this righteousness on a roll, IMHO (hat tip: wayne).
Comment by LibTeenie
Don't twist my words to fit your meglomanic worldview.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:16 pmAbout 5 months ago. But it was supposed to be top secret until Boner spilled the beans the other day. Don’t keep up with the news much do you mommy12?
There is nothing in this article, at least, that says the program was ruled unconstitutional.
It looks like, as the judge believes, that our defense programs conflict with the FISA act. Thus, we need a new FISA act.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 pmAnd now they are passing a new law for new times, that overrides FISA’s outdated nonsense.
Comment by m12 —
Noted, M12.
Never complain about how a democratic administration might use these new laws tp spy on republicans, or you'll be eating your ill-thought words...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 pmTO #287
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 pmYOUR PART OF THE REASON THIS COUNTRY IS &)*)&*%! BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER AND YOU JUST DONT CARE. ONE OR OTHER. TAKE YOUR PICK.
"There is nothing in this article, at least, that says the program was ruled unconstitutional."
As long as they made the required notification of the FISA court.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 pmStrawman, and there is no direct proof Iran was behind that.
Facts are important, the truth is important.
That they support and arm Hezbollah is undisputed, just as the Taliban supported and armed AQ. Hezbollah slaughtered Americans just as AQ did. If the Taliban can be held responsible for AQ then Iran should be for Hezbollah.
The reasoning is the same, you would think the reaction could also be the same. Guess not. Why do the righteous libs hate US Marines?
BTW, was that subtle satire when you said "gratifying himself in the "bushes"? RIGHT ON brother! Who says libs dont have a sense of humor?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 pmThe trolls have broken out the meth amphetamine for their big Friday night.
What's the matter guys? No dates?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 pmTO # 287
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:19 pmYOUR PART OF THE REASON -- TOO! YOU DON'T GET IT LIKE THE REST OF THEM. HOPE YOU ARE THRILLED LIVING IN A DARK HOLE.
Thus, we need a new FISA act.
Comment by m12
No, thus the law as currently written has been broken, and that law needs to be enforced.
Period.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 pmOr we live in Tyrany.
And now they are passing a new law for new times, that overrides FISA’s outdated nonsense.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
hey, everybody, it's Li'l Emmie!
But... but... Emmie, Bru$chCo has been insisting all along the **cough... cough** "Terraist Surveillance Program" was perfectly legal. Why a new law to make it "legal", if it was legal all along?
Wouldn't taht be an ex post facto law, by the way?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 pmYOUR PART OF THE REASON THIS COUNTRY IS &)*)&*%!
Oh... I thought you were from the American state of Maryland.
I didn't realize you were from &)*)&*%. Does the USA need to depose your &)*)&*% government too?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 pmYep. This is when all of the irrelevant and hateful libs come out…
Wait, no that’s not right. All libs are irrelevant and hateful.
I believe there may be one lib who isnt, some guy named Laberman or Leebermon or something like that. Hold on...he might have been booted from the DFL for having his own opinion and is now an independant.
Let me check and Ill get back to you.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 pmGuess not. Why do the righteous libs hate US Marines?
I dunno. At the time, the GOP's patron saint, Ronnie Reagan, hiked his skirts and ran. I'd suggest you ask Ronnie, but alas, he's dead.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 pmNoted, M12.
Never complain about how a democratic administration might use these new laws tp spy on republicans, or you’ll be eating your ill-thought words…
There are Democrats who are good men, and who believe in the defense of our homeland, and Bush has left them essential tools like the Patriot Act.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 pm"The trolls have broken out the meth amphetamine for their big Friday night."
Too expensive, when you're living on an allowance. Much easier to break into the camping supplies, and serve up Sterno shooters.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 pmNo, thus the law as currently written has been broken, and that law needs to be enforced.
Period.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
Or we live in Tyrany.
Only according to this bozo. He will be overturned on appeal!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:24 pmLate again!
Pissy Sniper: I don't know about your circle of friends (and I use the word generously), but most people I know are fed the Fu(k up w/the war and its cost in treasure, stature, and blood (not just American blood, either). You don't hear the din? Better get your ears checked, or stop posting hyperbole.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:24 pmI dunno. At the time, the GOP’s patron saint, Ronnie Reagan, hiked his skirts and ran. I’d suggest you ask Ronnie, but alas, he’s dead.
What? You dont know the planks of your own party's platform? You must be slow so Ill forgive you this one time.
Any of the other liber...I mean 'progressives' want to take the question, why do righteous libs hate the US Marines?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:25 pmMr Pee is big on organizing marches, although most of them involve Mr Pee marching around the basement in his tighty-whiteys.
Since Mr Pee is so adamant that the Islamo-terroristas must be vanquished, maybe Mr Pee could MARCH down to the local recruiting office and join the Army?
Or, maybe . . . Mr Pee is a whiny little pussy.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:25 pmThere are Democrats who are good men, and who believe in the defense of our homeland, and Bush has left them essential tools like the Patriot Act.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
We'll remind you of that when you start wailing.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:26 pmLet me check and Ill get back to you.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
---------
Joe Lieberman... great man.
I think we can all agree that he is a shining example of putting country before party! Something other libs should take note of.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:26 pmhey, everybody, it’s Li’l Emmie!
But… but… Emmie, Bru$chCo has been insisting all along the **cough… cough** “Terraist Surveillance Program†was perfectly legal. Why a new law to make it “legalâ€, if it was legal all along?
Wouldn’t taht be an ex post facto law, by the way?
The old law does not give enough power to our intelligence agencies.
Ex post facto only applies in the aggravating direction, when you criminalize what was legal conduct. Amnesty laws aren't in violation.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:27 pmI AM, YOU IDIOT. WAKE UP, JERK. IT'S NOT A GAME ANYMORE - THIS COUNTRY IS THRASHED AND YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN. YOUR PATHETIC
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:27 pmI believe there may be one lib who isnt, some guy named Laberman or Leebermon or something like that. Hold on…he might have been booted from the DFL for having his own opinion and is now an independant.
Let me check and Ill get back to you.
Comment by LibTeenie
The "reading service" is closed for the night, so research will be difficult. Let's me it easy for you: Lieberman is not a "liberal." Lieberman is a DINO.
Go ahead and cut yourself another line of Drano.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:27 pmAlright, we invade Lebanon and Iran just so we can keep this righteousness on a roll, IMHO (hat tip: wayne).
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
But... but... the Reagan Admin sold arms to Iran too! Holy shit, we were supporting the very people we're at war w/! We' should attack ourselves! And halliburton, while whe're at it, seeing as the Big H, under the control of VP Cheney, did business w/ both Iran and Iraq right up to 2000.
UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) -- Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.
During last year's presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.
"Iraq's different," the Post quoted him as saying.
Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.
And Libya too! Hat trick! Hat trick!
Damn... you're good Teenlibbie... you get right to the bottom of it all!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:27 pm"Any of the other liber…I mean ‘progressives’ want to take the question, why do righteous libs hate the US Marines?"
Comment by LibTeenie
Only in your little stereotypical bubble. Have you ever had an original thought?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:28 pmToo expensive, when you’re living on an allowance. Much easier to break into the camping supplies, and serve up Sterno shooters.
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Ohhhhh, hard core. :D
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:28 pm#298
THEY JUST NEED TO DISPOSE OF YOU.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:28 pmToo expensive, when you’re living on an allowance. Much easier to break into the camping supplies, and serve up Sterno shooters.
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Ohhhhh, hard core. :D
Comment by Zooey
I've suggested before, with stunning accuracy, that losers like Mr Pee are actually fueled by Red Bull and Doritos.
I rest my case.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:29 pmI'm sure you all know the congress passed Bush's updated FISA legislation... in the name of national security.
Now, I'm a democrat and one who is extremely frustrated and worried about the approach our Bush led Executive branch is taking toward democracy... but what i've seen thus far is a democratic legislature that has in fact caved and given the president nearly every 'blank' check he's asked for.
I believe it would be better for civil rights and the survival of our democracy if the House and Senate would pass none of Bush's requested bills, rather than continuing the "The US President is the Decider (AKA Dictator)" precident set by the last congress.
Does anyone else find it insane that our new congress is completely failing to take effective action to stop the illegal abuses of power that President Bush has perpetrated against our constitution, citizens, and the international community?
We all know fights over subpoenas cannot be resolved before the end of Bush's presidency, we all know the democrats don't have the votes they need to override the presidents veto powers on topics like war, civil rights, privacy, torture, etc. The only effective action the congress can take to do the job we voted them in for, would be to take no action.
Don't pass Bush's defence funding bills, don't pass Bush's bills that expand intelligence gathering capabilities (especially one with oversight from AG Alberto Gonzales).
We've heard "No more blank checks" and what we're seeing is blank checks followed by subpoenas that cannot lead to results within the next 2 years.
Where do we, the people, turn when our elected officials completely fail in nearly all aspects for which they were elected? What do we, the people, do once the damage is done and the surgeons available to fix it are afraid of the blood?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:30 pmWe’ll remind you of that when you start wailing.
Comment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
Wailing about what? Even if the Goracle had won in 2000, Joseph Lieberman might be the frontrunner today!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:30 pmMr Pee is big on organizing marches, although most of them involve Mr Pee marching around the basement in his tighty-whiteys.
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
Oy....that's not good for the visual center of my brain. :-D
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:31 pmI would like to make an announcement to the Patriotic Americans posting here:
It is best to ignore the following commentor:
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:31 pmHis name says it all!
wondering in maryland,
R U "Lurking Lady" ?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:32 pmI’ve suggested before, with stunning accuracy, that losers like Mr Pee are actually fueled by Red Bull and Doritos.
I rest my case.
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
Wow. You called it. Heh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:32 pmDamn… you’re good Teenlibbie… you get right to the bottom of it all!
Thanks dude, Im just trying to feed the hysterical rants from the left that I hear everyday, you know, America is trying to create an empire and conquer the world at the expense of brown people just to line their pockets with gold and fill their mansions with slaves.
Doing my part to keep the FrothingRabidMoonbat© brigades at a razors edge for when they finally rise up to TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!
Youre welcome, no charge this time.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:33 pmWailing about what? Even if the Goracle had won in 2000, Joseph Lieberman might be the frontrunner today!
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
Read your own comment, dingleberry.
Dem President with current powers of GWB = m12 whining like Nanny Fine.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:35 pmComment by BlindPatrioticIdiocy — August 3, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
When are you libs going to learn that it is not about Dems vs Reps, it's about the security of our Homeland!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:35 pmEven if the Goracle had won in 2000, Joseph Lieberman might be the frontrunner today!
Comment by m12
What's a "Goracle?" A Gore flavored popsicle?
And why are they so popular with republicans?
It's always "Goracle this, Goracle that," like they can't get enough of this delicacy. It must be a redneck thing, like Moon Pies...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:35 pmI've had concerns about Mike McConnell, as I'd have concerns about anyone who is agreeing to front for this administration. Particularly at this time, after the facts that we've suspected, of what lying, scheming scoundrels Bush, Cheney, et al, are, have come to light.
From all reports, the only way for McConnell to be considered an honest agent is for him to quit right now as the DNI. This is his 'Colin Powell'-moment - what Powell should have done when he realized that Bush was intent upon going to going to war in Iraq.
Bush should not be allowed this kind of legislation. If this wasn't so serious, it would be laughable. The Bush administration is a criminal enterprise, and this latest move for spying powers without oversight is the crux of the argument for why impeachment proceedings have to go forward. Now.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 pmWailing about what? Even if the Goracle had won in 2000, Joseph Lieberman might be the frontrunner today!
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
Conjecture, and therefore meaningless...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 pmIt is best to ignore the following piss-soaked troll:
Theophrastos
His name says nothing whatsoever!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 pm"When are you libs going to learn that it is not about Dems vs Reps, it’s about the security of our Homeland!!!"
Comment by Theophrastos
Baloney. Bush pushed the war before the midterms, politicizing it before it even started.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:37 pmWere you aware that Edwards currently has sizeable investments in the companies that produce Red Bull© and Doritos©?
More evidence that Big House Johnny must really care about frenetic, overweight women.
Myself, I prefer Fritos and Jones Energy Drink.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:37 pmComment by Theophrastos
NO I AM JUST YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS SPEAKING FOR YOU. STUPID MORON - TALK IN ENGLISH OR DID YOU NOT LEARN HOW TO IN SCHOOL?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 pmYoure welcome, no charge this time.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
But TeenLibbie, you didn't explain why Reagan hiked his skirts and ran from Beirut, or much of anything else either, when you come right down to it...
Hmmm... perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 pmWhat’s a “Goracle?†A Gore flavored popsicle?
And why are they so popular with republicans?
It’s always “Goracle this, Goracle that,†like they can’t get enough of this delicacy. It must be a redneck thing, like Moon Pies…
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
The Goracle, barfly, is Mr. Albert Gore, the man who lives in a multimillion dollar carbon guzzling home who predicts the doom of mankind like a fortune teller as he shuffles tarot cards.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm"... must really care about frenetic, overweight women."
Myself, I prefer Fritos and Jones Energy Drink.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
WTF??? This is ridiculous, even by your standards.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm#329
YOU HAVE THAT CORRECT. THANK YOU.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:40 pmSo Mr. P is doing his rendition of Tom Cruise dancing in his underwear?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:40 pmWere you aware that Edwards currently has sizeable investments in the companies that produce Red Bull© and Doritos©?
He does? Mr. Edwards is a smart guy; rehashing 50 year old failed LBJ 'war on poverty' nonsense, and dodging the same taxes he now wants to burden our economy with.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:41 pmIt would also prevent Bru$ch from making any recess appointments… Doh!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 3, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Not a problem anymore now that the Senate has passed the bill. We only need to call the House into session.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 pmHe does? Mr. Edwards is a smart guy; rehashing 50 year old failed LBJ ‘war on poverty’ nonsense, and dodging the same taxes he now wants to burden our economy with.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
You're just going to take his word for it? Geez.....trolls.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:44 pmThe Goracle, barfly, is Mr. Albert Gore, the man who lives in a multimillion dollar carbon guzzling home who predicts the doom of mankind like a fortune teller as he shuffles tarot cards.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
What a load of... hyperbole...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 pmHe does? Mr. Edwards is a smart guy; rehashing 50 year old failed LBJ ‘war on poverty’ nonsense, and dodging the same taxes he now wants to burden our economy with.
Yep, its easily found on the interlink.
Edwards is a stooge for the liberal feminist dingdongs but he might make some primary headway considering he is dam near willing to get a sex change to prove his femininity.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 pm"The Goracle, barfly, is Mr. Albert Gore, the man who lives in a multimillion dollar carbon guzzling home who predicts the doom of mankind like a fortune teller as he shuffles tarot cards."
Comment by m12
And what of Rushtradomis? He sits in his mansion shuffling through brocures for child-sex vacations in seedly off-shore locales...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:46 pmAnd what of Rushtradomis? He sits in his mansion shuffling through brocures for child-sex vacations in seedly off-shore locales…
Comment by barfly — August 3, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
Least he had the sense not to run for President.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 pmIt is best to ignore the following commentor:
The Republic of Stupidity
His name says it all!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
Aw, Theophrastos... you do care after all. I'm flattered... no, really, I am.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 pmAnd what of Rushtradomis? He sits in his mansion shuffling through brocures for child-sex vacations in seedly off-shore locales…
Rush isnt running for office and never has, nor does he expect you to walk to work while he takes a private jet.
How many houses do you need, Mr. Gore, that carbon footprint is starting to get kind 'o large.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:48 pmLeast he had the sense not to run for President.
Comment by m12
Why? Gore won, if you've forgotten.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:48 pmYou’re just going to take his word for it? Geez…..trolls.
Comment by Zooey — August 3, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
Edwards is a rich guy with tons of money in mutual funds. I'm sure he owns a lot of everything.
Democrats like Mr. Municipal Bond Kerry always talk one thing about taxing people, but don't bother living up to it themselves.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 pmLeast he had the sense not to run for President.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Nor run for anything else, for that matter. His poor "heart" **cough... cough** would give out like THAT.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 pmThe Goracle, barfly, is Mr. Albert Gore, the man who lives in a multimillion dollar carbon guzzling home who predicts the doom of mankind like a fortune teller as he shuffles tarot cards.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
---------------
I m12 does not mind I would like to clarify:
The Goracle is Mr. Albert Gore Jr.
Mr. Albert Gore Sr. was a Congressman from Tenn. who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964
Mr. Albert Gore III (The Goracle III) is The Goracle's drug addict son.
Thank you.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 pm"Rush isnt running for office and never has, nor does he expect you to walk to work while he takes a private jet."
I never said he was a hypocrite - just a chickenhawk. And as such, one of the "leading lights" of modern-day conservatism...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:51 pmHaving “No FISA warrants†for a domestic-connection — on top of the Comey concerns about that illegal activity — means that the warrants were known to be required;
Kindly define a 'domestic connection'. Liberals are under the impression that conversations that leave US borders and involve at least 1 foreigner happen to be 'domestic connections' for some odd reason....
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:51 pmEdwards is a stooge for the liberal feminist dingdongs but he might make some primary headway considering he is dam near willing to get a sex change to prove his femininity.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
------------------------
HEyOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOoOOO!!!!!
He sure does spend enough money getting his hair done to be a woman!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:51 pmMeanwhile the cartileginous* Senate *(no backbone) caves and votes Bush his legalized criminal fourth amendment ashtray.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 pmCan anyone with 2 or more working and connected brain cells even think of giving this"ag"any additional anything??
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 pmEven considering this would show no constructive mental activity at all.
I'm not worried about foreign intel. What do we not know about domestic programs "other" than FISA related intercepts??????
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 pmA solidarity march for drug addiction.
TROS will lead this one.
We need banners and lots of them. Thats a fact. (ht: zooey)
Hurry, Mr. Albert Gore III (The Goracle III) needs our help! Why arent you all volunteering, dont you care? What the $%*&^%$(#@ is WRONG with you people???
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:53 pm"He sure does spend enough money getting his hair done to be a woman!!!"
Comment by Theophrastos
Something Fred Thompson no longer has to worry about...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:53 pmOr John McCain.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:54 pmMitt's sure pretty as a girl...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 pmI’m sure he owns a lot of everything.
Appears to be conjecture.
Democrats like Mr. Municipal Bond Kerry always talk one thing about taxing people, but don’t bother living up to it themselves.
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
FactCheck.org: But in fact, Kerry has not voted 350 times for tax increases, something Bush campaign officials have falsely accused Kerry of on several occasions. On close examination, the Bush campaign’s list of Kerry’s votes for “higher taxes†is padded. It includes votes Kerry cast to leave taxes unchanged (when Republicans proposed cuts), and even votes in favor of alternative Democratic tax cuts that Bush aides characterized as “watered down.â€
More recently, we debunked the Bush campaign's improved claim that Kerry voted 98 times "for tax increases." That number is still padded, including 43 votes on budget measures that only set targets and don't actually legislate tax increases, as well as multiple votes regarding an individual bill.
http://www.factcheck.org/how_liberal_is_john_kerry.html
Hmm...
Senator John Kerry (D)
The following quotes are from the John Kerry for President web site unless otherwise indicated.
His Proposal
George W Bush has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy and special favors for the special interests over our economic future. John Kerry's priority will be middle class families who are working hard to cover the mortgage, pay the high cost of health care, child care and tuition, or just trying to get ahead.
John Kerry has the courage to take on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. However, he believes that we should keep the middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for in 2001 and 2003. Specifically, he wants to protect the increases in the child tax credit, the reduced marriage penalty and the new tax bracket that helps people save $350 on their first level of income. He strongly disagrees with Democrats who want to repeal these tax cuts because it would cost a typical middle-class family with two children an additional $2,000.
The Bush economic approach has left states with nearly $90 billion in budget deficits, forcing layoffs, education cuts, and tax increases – all of which hurt economic growth. John Kerry will create a new "State Tax Relief and Education Fund" that will help states so they don't have to make cuts that hurt our economy with an additional $25 billion over two years. This fund will stop the education cuts, tuition increases and tax and fee raising that are inhibiting our economic growth and causing layoffs. Kerry will, also, give additional money to states by fully funding the No Child Left Behind education law and special education.
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/taxes/a/r_taxes.htm
Hm... again...
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 pmEdwards is a stooge for the liberal feminist dingdongs but he might make some primary headway considering he is dam near willing to get a sex change to prove his femininity.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
Whoa... talk about gibberish.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 pmHurry, Mr. Albert Gore III (The Goracle III) needs our help! Why arent you all volunteering, dont you care? What the $%*&^%$(#@ is WRONG with you people???
Comment by LibTeenie
It's always pretty obvious when the trolls start getting desperate. "Hey, look over there! Paris Hilton! Gore's son has drug problems!"
Your kung fu is so weak that it's not even kung pao.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 pmComment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
My sympathies to your family, in particular your parents, they must be so ashamed of how stupid you are.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 pmI never said he was a hypocrite - just a chickenhawk. And as such, one of the “leading lights†of modern-day conservatism
No you didnt, you said:
And what of Rushtradomis? He sits in his mansion shuffling through brocures for child-sex vacations in seedly off-shore locales…
Haysoos Marimba, cant you even remember what you wrote just a few minutes ago?
Im of the mind to start a solidarity march against short-term memory loss.
We need some banners for...uh...for the....ummm...what was I talking about again?
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 pmLook at the number of cowards and traitors that have swarmed from the right. Upholders of illegal invasions, destroyers of the Constitution and the USA, and proud of it, although too proud to do anything except lie and follow the talking points of the traitors in the Shite House. Libs hate Marines, they say, but they happily send Marines to their deaths for oil profits. Reagan puts 243 marines in harms way; they get blown to pieces, he runs away. Bush ignores intelligence about 9/11; the attack is successful, he runs away. Bush breaks whatever laws he wants, and the Republican whores change the laws to assist him in destroying America's military and reputation. When the Dems wipe out the Republican party on '08, those same laws are going to be used against those liars, thieves and murderers, and the chickenhawk brigades here will be screaming into the emptiness of the political wilderness, where they will be for decades. We know you hate this country, you neocon pigs, and we're going to make sure you are done very soon. You will never again have the opportunity to destroy what men of good will and belief in democracy sacrificed their lives, fortunes and sacred honors to build. Shame on all of you anti-American troglodytes, and shame on America, for giving you a voice. You should be, and will be, locked away, along with your "leaders', the most greedy, evil, incompetent bunch of sociopaths ever imagined in power in America. the shear numbers of chickenhawks in the Republican party compared to patriotic veterans in the democratic Party tells the tale very clearly. Republicans are cowards, lears, thieves and pedophiles; Democrats are constantly saving this country from them. Here we go again.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 pmCall the House of Representatives back into session!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 pmCall the fu(king president back into reality!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:00 am"Haysoos Marimba, cant you even remember what you wrote just a few minutes ago?"
Did you think that was an assertion of Rush's hypocrisy? You didn't do very well in reading comp, did you?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:01 amCall the fu(king president back into reality!
Comment by RUCerious — August 4, 2007 @ 12:00 am
The reality that Carter's 1978 hoopla is inadequate for modern global communications?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:01 am"Im of the mind to start a solidarity march against short-term memory loss."
You could be it's poster-child.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:02 amMy sympathies to your family, in particular your parents, they must be so ashamed of how stupid you are.
Now zo, can I call you zo? You know perfectly well that us Warmongering NeoConsâ„¢ are created in a lab underneath Rove's house...you big fooler you! :-)
You had me for a moment there, pretending like you didnt know and being silly! You funny goose.
Hold on, youre just trying to distract me from cracking the whip over all these marches. Now get those piss-soaked porta-potties loaded up girlie, we have to get to D.C. quick as a nip. Mooove it out!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:02 amThe reality that Carter’s 1978 hoopla is inadequate for modern global communications?
Comment by m12
Weak, weak shit, mon. Won't stay lit.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:04 amMr. Albert Gore Sr. was a Congressman from Tenn. who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964
Mr. Albert Gore III (The Goracle III) is The Goracle’s drug addict son.
Thank you.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
And thus, your heroes. Al Gore, Jr., the 43rd President of the United States, would have been such a success that no Republican would have been elected ever again. Fortunately, the repigs will destroy themselves anyway, but not before losing three wars and screwing the American people out of every dollar they can steal from the treasury. Bush's only success is the amount of money stolen for his buddies. He has failed at everything else that he has tried that was legal or moral. Too bad that pretzel didn't finish the job.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:04 amComment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:02 am
No, you may not call me "zo."
August 4th, 2007 at 12:04 amThe reality that Carter’s 1978 hoopla is inadequate for modern global communications?
Comment by m12
But it wasn't - and isn't.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:05 amDid you think that was an assertion of Rush’s hypocrisy? You didn’t do very well in reading comp, did you?
You didnt memorize things well, did you? Ill bet you had cheats written on your arms during the test.
You said that you said (dont get confused now) Rush was a chickenhawk when clearly you didnt. You are a liar and a braggart!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:05 amMistress Z~
August 4th, 2007 at 12:06 amYou may call him itsybitsyweenie, though.
"You said that you said (dont get confused now) Rush was a chickenhawk when clearly you didnt. You are a liar and a braggart!"
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Do you know what a chickenhawk is?
Look it up; it means those who troll for little kids - just like Rush.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:08 amOh come on, Izo-zo, let Libteenie call you Zo.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:08 amMistress Z~
You may call him itsybitsyweenie, though.
Comment by RUCerious — August 4, 2007 @ 12:06 am
If I must refer to him at all, I suppose. :P
August 4th, 2007 at 12:08 amCan we call you "Kazoo"?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amComment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 12:08 am
What the f*ck is wrong with you? Get lost.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amBut it wasn’t - and isn’t.
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Hmm? How so?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amYou are a liar and a braggart!â€
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Well, you got the second part right, anyway.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amToo bad that pretzel didn’t finish the job.
You seem sad and indignant that the pretzel "didnt finish the job", perhaps you should take a hand at finishing it yourself?
Naw, your righteous (ht: wayne) clamor ends at the door of your basement bedroom, those Nintendo-64 high scores wont get achieved by themselves you know.
Ill bet you watched 'Taxi Driver' one too many times and now practice in your basement bathroom mirror with a toy gun. You know Im right so dont deny it.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amLibteenie is his dick's name. It's the head with the brain, in his case.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:10 amThe thing is that have proved to anyone ever how the fisa court is outdated there may be a need to propose new legislation just show why. Then is a response of we don't have to show why it just is and the court can only review the process after we have begun the eavesdropping and if they find it illegal then the eavesdropping and the court can't review individual cases only the overall process. Now the topper lets put Gonzo in charge of it because he's proven he's trustworthy. If this such tire need for national security then prove it plan and simple. this is the same bull with his directive against torture then reserved the right to define what torture was.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:11 ampardon my spelling above wrote too fast.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:12 am385. Jesus, you're weak. You really suck at this. You may get better at it if you ever get out of Jr. High, but don't count on it. People as stupid as you don't get far in life.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:12 amWell, you got the second part right, anyway.
Since youre a liar then this isnt true either.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:12 am"Hmm? How so?"
Comment by m12
The Fisa requirement for judicial notification wasn't intended to impede investigations - that's why there was a (two-week, I think) time constraint for notification, so that investigations could proceed - but then, you already knew that.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:14 amLook it up; it means those who troll for little kids - just like Rush.
Honestly I never thought about it that way, I thought you were referring to his war views.
Ugh, the fact that you knew of this double meaning speaks volumes. You creep me out.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:15 amComment by chad — August 4, 2007 @ 12:11 am
The article clearly answers that, Chad. Modern fiber optics flow in so many directions that calls between Islamic states can flow through US cables.
The FISA law was certainly not meant to handle such intelligence!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:15 amSince youre a liar then this isnt true either.
Comment by LibTeenie
And you're the dork who can't admit he's been proved wrong...
August 4th, 2007 at 12:15 amI am sad the pretzel didn't finish the job, since Bush's only qualifications for office hinge on his family's connections to Hitler. But only a teeny-dicked traitor like you would celebrate a deserter in the presidency. That's your dream, isn't it, to be a deserter, just like Bush. Too bad your grandad wasn't friends with Hitler, instead of with your sister.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:16 amLibteenie is his dick’s name. It’s the head with the brain, in his case.
Big and beautiful baby, just like the one upstairs. :-)
Leave it to a lib to talk about another man's junk.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:16 amUgh, the fact that you knew of this double meaning speaks volumes. You creep me out.
Comment by LibTeenie
Know thy enemy...
Next time, perhaps you should do a little research before shooting off your mouth - just a suggestion from the "liar."
August 4th, 2007 at 12:17 amUgh, the fact that you knew of this double meaning speaks volumes. You creep me out.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:15 am
Of course. Informed people who read and understand the news would naturally creep out a retard like you. Just like you piss yourself whenever a plane flies over. It's cute how proud you are of your ignorance.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:18 amm12 I understand that part that communications and how they are routed have changed but that does not explain how seeking court approval for eavesdropping when they only have to do it within two weeks of initiating the program and the court has only turned down 1 request in the history of the fisa court impedes eavesdropping. Seems like this court is already pretty flexible. I'm just asking there may be a need to revise things all I ask is give me a sufficient reason.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:19 amKnow thy enemy…
Next time, perhaps you should do a little research before shooting off your mouth - just a suggestion from the “liar.â€
Is that what you call it, "research"? The cops call it something else, but then again you already know that, its why you have so many locks on your door and the shades always closed.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:22 amevery system has to have checks and balances even if it is a republican or democrat to avoid corruption of any system maybe the court needs to be scrapped that is a conversation congress can have but there does not be a sufficient oversight and balance and right now this administration will not submit to that. We only ever found out about this program through a leak to a NY Times reporter or we would still not know about this program.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:23 amThe FISA law was certainly not meant to handle such intelligence!
Comment by m12
I don't think we need worry about how Fisa handles intelligence.
Republicans are another matter.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:23 amchad, Bush is a 4-year-old, spoiled little brat that doesn't want to give reasons for doing what he wants. he stamps his feet, and all of the slavering incompetent idiots he's appointed to help him destroy the USA rush to do his bidding, unthinking and unpatriotic. He's a psychotic, sick person, with parents who hated him all his life, the perfect neocon puppet, they thought. They didn't count on his massive ignorance and ego to screw up their plans so completely. What other leader could have lost a war to a dead man, as Bush has done?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:23 amIs that what you call it, “research� The cops call it something else, but then again you already know that, its why you have so many locks on your door and the shades always closed.
Comment by LibTeenie
Heh.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:24 amInformed people who read and understand the news
So youre up to date on what "chickenhawk" means too, huh? And youre a lib? Go figure.
Jeez you guys are slimy. Gross.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:25 amProjection, littleteeniedick. Do you take care of gramps before or after he's done with your sis?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:25 amForgive me for breaking up the lovefest, folks, but you might consider bombarding your Congressmen and -women with demands that they save the Senate from itself. Only the House now stands in the way of this nonsense, of course, and the reps need to hear hell from their constituents.
Why do you all feed these trolls? No good movies on television tonight? I'll never understand...
August 4th, 2007 at 12:26 amThe Fisa requirement for judicial notification wasn’t intended to impede investigations - that’s why there was a (two-week, I think) time constraint for notification, so that investigations could proceed - but then, you already knew that.
If you're referring to after the fact warrants, the time frame was only a meager 72 hours.
The law passed in 1978 makes no allowances for the increased anonymity of the internet and cell phones, especially disposable cell phones. The burden of proof required by the FISA law (that the subject is definitively linked to a terrorist cell) is far too high when you don't know who is calling!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:26 amWeak ron, weak as a can of month-old Olympiaâ„¢. Try again and see if you can do better.
Ill wait...-jeapordy tune-
August 4th, 2007 at 12:28 amI understand guys but that is not helping the discourse here. Letting others actions dictate your own does not make yours any better in light of theres. People have to stop looking at questions in terms of absolutes like one party is right and the other is wrong. What are the REAL arguements are for overriding a judicial judge who ruled against this TSP program? And why would we want to create into law something that a judge has ruled illegal.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:28 am"Forgive me for breaking up the lovefest, folks, but you might consider bombarding your Congressmen and -women with demands that they save the Senate from itself."
Diane Finestein, and Duncan Hunter?
I'm not going to bother.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:29 amm12, I hope you get a wrong number from a Muslim overseas some day. You will learn the folly of stripping freedom and privacy from American citizens as you languish in Gitmo or some other secret Soviet-style Bushista prison. this is totalitarianism, plain and simple, enabled by cowards and chickenhawks, and completely ineffective in the GWOT. You happily give up your country for what? So you can have a nice corner in a concentration camp? What an idiot and waste of carbon you are.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am"So youre up to date on what “chickenhawk†means too, huh? And youre a lib? Go figure."
Jeez you guys are slimy. Gross.
Comment by LibTeenie
It is the original usage, and has been in use for over a century (as such).
Home schooled? Poor soul.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:32 amComment by chad — August 4, 2007 @ 12:19 am
The problem, chad, is that due to this modern routing the FISA court can have jurisdiction over wiretaps of foreigners, which is creating an 8000 hour backlog in the warrant application filing.
Even Harry Reid wants US officials to be able to monitor Al Qaeda operations in Afghanistan without a needless warrant.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:33 amYou will learn the folly of stripping freedom and privacy from American citizens as you languish in Gitmo or some other secret Soviet-style Bushista prison. this is totalitarianism, plain and simple, enabled by cowards and chickenhawks, and completely ineffective in the GWOT.
Intelligence and monitoring of Al Qaeda is completely ineffective?
What is effective, in your opinion? Toothpicks and paper plates?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:34 amYou're weaker and weaker, littleteeniedick, but you keep waiting, maybe I can find some shorter words so you can understand. Finish up that month-old Olympia, though. Figures you'd have that as your only expertise.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:35 am"The problem, chad, is that due to this modern routing the FISA court can have jurisdiction over wiretaps of foreigners, which is creating an 8000 hour backlog in the warrant application filing."
Comment by m12
Says who? The Bushies? Yeah, they have a clear track record of truth-telling!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:35 amm12 I don't know about todays technology but that would be a good argument unfortunately it is not being framed quite that way. But I would be interested in hearing if disposable cell phones and the internet do prevent eavesdropping the way the fisa court is currently set up because those two advancements are not recent developments and have been around for a decade or so. But at least it starts a discussion right now there is none.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:36 amEven Harry Reid wants US officials to be able to monitor Al Qaeda operations in Afghanistan without a needless warrant.
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 12:33 am
August 4th, 2007 at 12:36 am-------------
Exactly. Republicans and Democrats agree that the safety and security of the Homeland is more important than partisanship. This is an absolutely reasonable and correct move.
M12; fool me once - won't get fooled again?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:37 amAl Qaeda is bushit. A big, bad bogeyman to keep you chickenhawks good and nervous while the neocons take your country away from you. You're a coward.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:37 amm12 is the backlog just from the 5 months since it was ruled illegal by the courts because before that they weren't even going to the courts for warrants?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:37 amThis is an absolutely reasonable and correct move.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 12:36 am
Says who? You? Now there's an unimpeachable authority!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:38 amIt is the original usage, and has been in use for over a century (as such).
Home schooled? Poor soul.
Sorry pal, one out of a thousand people (if that) would assume chickenhawk referred to a pro-war position, not pedophilia. Spin it all you want, the term came readily to you and thats all anyone needs to know.
Slimy. Gross. Yuck.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:38 amSays who? The Bushies? Yeah, they have a clear track record of truth-telling!
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Says the officials of the FBI and NSA who are in charge of our national security.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:38 am"Exactly. Republicans and Democrats agree that the safety and security of the Homeland is more important than partisanship. This is an absolutely reasonable and correct move.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 12:36 am"
Very good. Now, make sure your creases are perfect and your shoes brightly shined, and click those heels smartly when you say "Sig Heil, Mon Fuehrer!" Why haven't you enlisted yet?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:39 amSays the politically-appointed officials of the FBI and NSA who are in charge of our national security.
Comment by m12
Fixed it for you.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:40 amSays who? You? Now there’s an unimpeachable authority!
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 12:38 am
---------
What? Do you have the same response for everyone?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:41 amm12, wasn't robert mueller of the FBI against this program though when he was in office? not sure what the current guy thinks.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:41 amSlimy. Gross. Yuck.
Comment by LibTeenie
Rush Limbaugh certainly is.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:42 amYou’re weaker and weaker, littleteeniedick, but you keep waiting, maybe I can find some shorter words so you can understand. Finish up that month-old Olympia, though. Figures you’d have that as your only expertise.
Still with the genitalia references, why is that?
Ill have to give this attempt of yours a solid D-, it lacks any sensicality or thoughtful prose.
Please drag out your chalkstick and slate and try again. Ill continue waiting. -Muzakâ„¢-
August 4th, 2007 at 12:42 amSorry pal, one out of a thousand people (if that) would assume chickenhawk referred to a pro-war position, not pedophilia. Spin it all you want, the term came readily to you and thats all anyone needs to know.
Slimy. Gross. Yuck.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:38 am
dead wrong, as usual. Your definition, as applies to you and the other cowards in the Republican party, is only a few years old. looking at gay porn all day isn't getting you educated very well, is it? You're most likely both kinds of chickenhawk, but keep on bragging about your lack of education. Ignorance is especially attractive to Repig congressmen; they'll be falling all over themselves to get a date with you.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:42 amAl Qaeda is bushit. A big, bad bogeyman to keep you chickenhawks good and nervous while the neocons take your country away from you. You’re a coward.
Hmm? You miss those planes smashing the towers?
Tell me, ronjazz, do you even believe in a military?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:42 amWhat? Do you have the same response for everyone?
Comment by Theophrastos
So two equals "the same response for everyone?"
Got it.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:43 amsensicality, that must be a new chickenhawk word. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your impotence.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:44 amyes, yes enlightened discourse this is.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:45 amTell me, ronjazz, do you even believe in a military?
Comment by m12
Do you believe in shared sacrifice for the common good?
I didn't think so.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:45 amNow, make sure your creases are perfect and your shoes brightly shined, and click those heels smartly when you say “Sig Heil, Mon Fuehrer!â€
Why would someone speaking German throw in a French word?
You are a dolt.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:46 amcome I would yell at my students for these kind of debating skills are you going to yell at other like kids at a school yard or discuss the topic?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:46 amWhy would someone speaking German throw in a French word?
You are a dolt.
Comment by LibTeenie
He was calling you a Vichy. Do you know what that is, you poor, uneducated home-schooler?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:48 amcome I would yell at my students for these kind of debating skills are you going to yell at each other like kids at a school yard or discuss the topic?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:48 amwell, I dont believe in destroying our military in a botched attempt to murder innocents because of oil. and since when is Al Qaeda anything but a made-up fairy tale for you scaredycats? A group of Saudis and Egyptians alledgedly flew those planes ino buildings, but to date there is absolutely no proof of that. Only the assertions of a born liar and his crew of opportunistic traitors. just because you're ignorant and cowardly enough to believe the likes of Rice and Cheney doesn't mean we all fall for that crap. And terrorism has only grown because of Bush's misguided, incompetent, knee-jerk reactions. Any competent leader would have had the perpetrators caught and convicted within a year, as Clinton did in '93.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:49 amDo you believe in shared sacrifice for the common good?
I didn’t think so.
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 12:45 am
I don't know how those terms are defined.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:49 amFailed again, ron. -Sigh- I can only help you along so much, eventually you will have to do it for yourself.
Now try again, this time drag the chalk horizontally across the slate as well as vertically, you might get lucky and make your first "H". And stop eating the chalk.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:49 ambarfly, you got it! littleteeniedick doesn't have what it takes to be a real soldier, but he would be a perfect surrender monkey, thus, a Vichy. Very sharp of you.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:50 amcome I would yell at my students for these kind of debating skills are you going to yell at each other like kids at a school yard or discuss the topic?
Comment by chad
If you can handle second-hand republican spin, and already-debunked talking points, then debate away!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:51 amSorry pal, one out of a thousand people (if that) would assume chickenhawk referred to a pro-war position, not pedophilia. Spin it all you want, the term came readily to you and thats all anyone needs to know.
Slimy. Gross. Yuck.
Comment by LibTeenie
What a moron. "one out of a thousand people (if that) would assume chickenhawk referred to a pro-war position, not pedophilia."
soooooo, one out of a thousand understand the term "chickenhawk" to reference people like Cheney. Interesting, if maybe just the opposite of what you thought you were writing.
The original definition of chickenhawk was, and is, someone who is obsessed with young boys.
The current definition is "Republican punks who send others off to war while at the same time avoiding having any actual combat experience."
August 4th, 2007 at 12:51 amComment by ronjazz — August 4, 2007 @ 12:49 am
So first you call Al Qaeda a fairytale, then you praise Clinton for arresting the Al Qaeda perpetrators of the 93 WTC bombings!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:51 am"I don’t know how those terms are defined."
Comment by m12
Now that makes me sad for your civics teacher's wasted efforts.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:52 amsorry, chad, this isn't a debate when these robots get aboard. You're probably wasting your time if you want reasonable discussion. I drop by to educate, and it's like dealing with mules. First, the 2x4, then the 2x4. They never learn.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:52 amA group of Saudis and Egyptians alledgedly flew those planes ino buildings, but to date there is absolutely no proof of that.
Allegedly? Those 2 planes were holograms created by Cheney or something?
Damn, he fooled millions of New Yorkers!
August 4th, 2007 at 12:52 amm12, how do you have any knowledge of the '93 bombers being Al Qaeda? Or are you making it up as you go along. Oops, never mind. I know you cowards need your monsters in the closet.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:54 amHe was calling you a Vichy. Do you know what that is, you poor, uneducated home-schooler?
Nice try but no cupie doll for you. 'Vichy' as an insult would imply collaboration with a foreign occupier, since Theo is American and Bush is American, your poor attempt to salvage ron doesnt apply.
You both lose.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am"Damn, he fooled millions of New Yorkers!"
Comment by m12
W. M. D.
Any questions?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:55 amYou have no proof of who was flying those planes, None, not a shred. Nor who they worked for, nor their reasons. Cheney is as likely a suspect as anyone. More likely than most.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:55 amok I denying al queda doesn't help. so we have one party saying al queda is everywhere be very afraid and run for your lives and one party saying al queda is a threat one of many and that the best way to stop and ideology is not to run all over the world stomping out fires and enraging people put is to protect our borders rebuilt our infrastructure and fight their ideology of hate with one of compassion in that region with schools and aid that would be more effective and less costly to lives and taxpayer dollars. Currently the war to stop terrorists has increased terrorists.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:56 amSo first you call Al Qaeda a fairytale, then you praise Clinton for arresting the Al Qaeda perpetrators of the 93 WTC bombings!
Hate to jump in on your conversation, but I noticed that too.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:56 amSorry pal, one out of a thousand people (if that) would assume chickenhawk referred to a pro-war position, not pedophilia
Libteenie,
You forget that these libs are ultra-PC-anal-retentive. They expect you know the terminology for all of their deviant acts. They (thank God) do not represent America, the "progressive" fringe is so far Left that Dems like Pelosi won't even make appearances at their little conventions (and she went to Syria with "an alternative democrat agenda").
August 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am"Nice try but no cupie doll for you. ‘Vichy’ as an insult would imply collaboration with a foreign occupier, since Theo is American and Bush is American, your poor attempt to salvage ron doesnt apply."
Can you prove Theo is an American?
I didn't think so.
Next?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:57 amNice try but no cupie doll for you. ‘Vichy’ as an insult would imply collaboration with a foreign occupier, since Theo is American and Bush is American, your poor attempt to salvage ron doesnt apply.
You both lose.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Sorry, your stupidity got in the way of common sense again. Vichy implies weak-willed traitor, which applies perfectly here. i wouldn't expect you to know that, though, since you don't seem to know much at all. It's nice that you think Bush is an American, though, what with all that kissing and holding hands with Saudi princes. An American wouldn't have stolen the presidency to use to his own ends. Bush is an antiAmerican.
August 4th, 2007 at 12:59 amCheney is as likely a suspect as anyone. More likely than most.
Cheney had the resources and organization to create and carry-out the most infamous terrorist attack in history, yet he doesnt have the capability to bury a few hundred warheads or barrels of WMD in the trackless Iraqi desert to be found later?
August 4th, 2007 at 12:59 amsorry, chad, this isn’t a debate when these robots get aboard. -ron
-------
The sad thing is, ron actually thinks we are robots.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:00 amHate to jump in on your conversation, but I noticed that too.
Comment by CowTown — August 4, 2007 @ 12:56 am
Noticed what, where I called the '93 bombers Al Qaeda? Are you blind or just stupid? If blind, I apologize. If not, learn to read.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:01 amYou have no proof of who was flying those planes, None, not a shred. Nor who they worked for, nor their reasons. Cheney is as likely a suspect as anyone. More likely than most.
Was he using his Sith powers, or remote control?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:01 amThose 2 planes were holograms created by Cheney or something?
Bingo!
August 4th, 2007 at 1:01 amAny competent leader would have had the perpetrators caught and convicted within a year, as Clinton did in ‘93.
Comment by ronjazz — August 4, 2007 @ 12:49 am
vs.
So first you call Al Qaeda a fairytale, then you praise Clinton for arresting the Al Qaeda perpetrators of the 93 WTC bombings!
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 12:51 am
It was you m12, who said the perpetrators of the '93 WTC bombing were al Qaeda, not ronjazz. I would have thought real al Qaeda bombers would have stayed with the truck to make sure it went off. These guys parked and ran off, but they got caught and are in prison right now.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:02 amBush is an antiAmerican.
Thats why youre a ilberal and why the nation wont trust you with the reins. Simple really.
Maybe you could call up the DFL pres nominee after the convention and convince them to peddle your '911 inside job' theory. Click.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:02 amm12, how do you have any knowledge of the ‘93 bombers being Al Qaeda? Or are you making it up as you go along. Oops, never mind. I know you cowards need your monsters in the closet.
Uh, the man arrested in the plots, Ramsey Yousef, was related to and financed by Khalid Shiekh Mohammed?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:02 am"Cheney had the resources and organization to create and carry-out the most infamous terrorist attack in history, yet he doesnt have the capability to bury a few hundred warheads or barrels of WMD in the trackless Iraqi desert to be found later?"
Comment by CowTown
No mystery. In one, he's the vice president, in the other, a powerless pariah. Do you really think the Iraqis would've allowed that, knowing who Cheney is/did?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:03 amCan you prove Theo is an American?
I didn’t think so.
Next?
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 12:57 am
--------------------------------------
Can you prove that we are all real, or maybe we are all just part of someone else's dream... and when he or she wakes up, we will all disappear...
whoa..... this is totally blowing my mind, bro.......
Where's Goracle III, I want to thank him for the primo grass.....
August 4th, 2007 at 1:05 amThe sad thing is, ron actually thinks we are robots.
And is feverishly trying to convince everyone of that. I think I saw him downtown wearing a sandwich board and nothing else, baying about "republican robots who will doom us all to mechanical slavery!"
I went back inside after the cops showed up and the scuffle ended.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:06 amWas he using his Sith powers, or remote control?
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 1:01 am
what do you think? was he in league with "Al Qaeda"? did he hire the pilots? who knows, they're all dead. how convenient. the evidence trucked away and sent to France to be melted down, in clear violation of every statute for a major disaster in the US. Why no WMDs? Again, who knows? the incompetence of this administration is quite unexplainable. Perhaps they thought we were all as gullible and stupid as you appear to be, and that we would be so afraid that we would fall right in line, as you did. It worked for Hitler, but he was slightly more competent, having actually fought in a war.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:07 amMaybe we are all just little windup toys being pushed around by a giant, our sleep is actually when the batteries run down.
I have to stop watching The Twilight Zone©, I dont like it here in ron's world.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:08 amThats why youre a ilberal and why the nation wont trust you with the reins. Simple really.
Maybe you could call up the DFL pres nominee after the convention and convince them to peddle your ‘911 inside job’ theory. Click.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 1:02 am
Thanks for '06, and many thanks in advance for '08, when the conservatives disappear from power forever. 70% of Americans want you people out, so you obviously have proven conclusively that you can't be trusted with the reins, which you only got through theft, anyway.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:10 amIt worked for Hitler, but he was slightly more competent [than Bush], having actually fought in a war.
Comment by ronjazz — August 4, 2007 @ 1:07 am
-----------------------------
So this is how the Left thinks... nice.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:10 amComment by LibTeenie
You laugh at claims that you're just pre-programmed robots - and yet when pressed, you fall back on old republican bromides, and debunked spin.
Strange...
August 4th, 2007 at 1:10 amIt was you m12, who said the perpetrators of the ‘93 WTC bombing were al Qaeda, not ronjazz. I would have thought real al Qaeda bombers would have stayed with the truck to make sure it went off. These guys parked and ran off, but they got caught and are in prison right now.
He seems to be hinting that the 93 bombings were some sort of terrorist activity. Given the identity and allegiance of the perpetrator, I assumed he was referring to Al Qaeda, or at the very least, related organizations.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:11 amSo this is how the Left thinks… nice.
Comment by Theophrastos
So, let's hear your defense - is Bush more competent than Hitler, or less?
It's a valid question.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:12 amMaybe we are all just little windup toys being pushed around by a giant, our sleep is actually when the batteries run down.
I have to stop watching The Twilight Zone©, I dont like it here in ron’s world.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 1:08 am
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It's either that, or we are all paid by "KKKarl Rove" to troll here!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 1:12 amNo mystery. In one, he’s the vice president, in the other, a powerless pariah. Do you really think the Iraqis would’ve allowed that, knowing who Cheney is/did?
Well that is convenient for the argument, but thats about it. The dems claim we control Iraq, that the Iraqi government is a sad puppet of ours with the US Army holding it together.
We can fly in our dignitaries into Iraq anytime we please, wouldnt it stand to reason that we could also arrange to bury some WMD devices out in the desert somewhere on a dark night? It would seem possible, given the scope of 911 and the preparation that would have to be involved in such a venture.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:13 amSo this is how the Left thinks… nice.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 1:10 am
Yes, the Left relies on facts, even if uncomfortable for you 'bots. You can all be proud of your deserter-in-chief, but patriotic Americans are embarrassed, as they should be. And that's 70% of us, by the way. You far-right extremists are finished. America doesn't need to be a totalitarian, nazi state just because your're all cowards. We destroyed the Axis powers without destroying the Constitution, but that's because we were led by a liberal. Case closed.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:14 amComment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 1:11 am
And you know all of this because you saw the evidence yourself? Or did you take the word of people from the Bush Administration?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:14 amHe seems to be hinting that the 93 bombings were some sort of terrorist activity. Given the identity and allegiance of the perpetrator, I assumed he was referring to Al Qaeda, or at the very least, related organizations.
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 1:11 am
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If ron wasn't hinting at that, then he has to admit that Clinton was incompetent, because he did not connect the incident to the international terrorists.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:15 amThe dems claim we control Iraq, that the Iraqi government is a sad puppet of ours with the US Army holding it together.
Comment by CowTown — August 4, 2007 @ 1:13 am
References please? All the sane people are saying the situation is out of control.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:15 am"It would seem possible, given the scope of 911 and the preparation that would have to be involved in such a venture."
Comment by CowTown —
So you're arguing that Bush was too incompetent to have pulled it off?
I'd agree to that.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:16 amComment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 1:12 am
President Bush is a moral and an intellectual giant compared to Hitler.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:16 amMaybe we are all just little windup toys being pushed around by a giant, our sleep is actually when the batteries run down.
Comment by LibTeenie — August 4, 2007 @ 1:08 am
Nice one, TeenLibbie. You finally come out and jus tadmit it's true.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:18 amNobody claims we control Iraq, not even the idiot Bush. We can fly in "dignitaries" under cover of darkness, after total security sweeps in a very tiny area, and they can stay for, at best, a few days. That is quite a bit different from burying enough weapons-grade materiel to prove the case for war. It was a PR stunt, and it backfired on them, but worse, on our soldiers. I realize you righties think that they're just slaves to be used as target practice (they signed up!), but we patriots want them around to defend the country against real threats, not to liberate oil fields for rich white men.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:18 amPresident Bush is a moral and an intellectual giant compared to Hitler.
Comment by Theophrastos
Yeah, telling the world that we were on a "crusade" to end terrorism was pure genius!
August 4th, 2007 at 1:18 amAnd you know all of this because you saw the evidence yourself? Or did you take the word of people from the Bush Administration?
You mean the Clinton administration? The perpetrators of the 93 bombings are all in jail and their trials are public record.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:18 amYeah, telling the world that we were on a “crusade†to end terrorism was pure genius!
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 1:18 am
----------------
He's honest too.
Because, we are and we will.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:20 amIf ron wasn’t hinting at that, then he has to admit that Clinton was incompetent, because he did not connect the incident to the international terrorists.
Osama bin Laden did not use the term "al Qaeda" until after the 9/11/01 attacks, and he used it because our intelligence agencies started calling them that. So how could Clinton connect them to an organization that, for all intents and purposes, did not exist in the world under the name "al Qaeda"?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:21 amPresident Bush is a moral and an intellectual giant compared to Hitler.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 1:16 am
Actually, that's not true. Hitler was a monster and quite brilliant in his own way, far, far brighter than Bush. Hitler took a destroyed, economically depressed country and turned it into an economic powerhouse in less than 10 years. He was a monster, but a brilliant monster.
All Bush ever did was inherit his family's money and his father's political cnnetions.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:21 amreaching, Theophrastos, but not connecting. your republican congress is entirely to blame for Clinton's inability to do the job he was hired for. Your only strategy for the past 30 years has been to weaken the country to prove that government doesn't work, so that your leaders can amass riches that they can never spend in a million centuries. Treason is your party's claim to fame, and the only thing it's good at.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:22 amHe’s honest too.
Because, we are and we will.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 1:20 am
And you're a fraud, but you're not as bad as that "Pippy Trollstockings" character. At least YOU don't try to claim the Saudis aren't Moslems...
August 4th, 2007 at 1:22 amHe’s honest too.
Because, we are and we will.
Comment by Theophrastos
It must be home-schooled Troll Night at TP. Look up the word "crusade" Poindexter, and then suck on the brown nob of your own ignorance...
August 4th, 2007 at 1:23 amfunny how the war on terror has increased terrorism wordwide, but "we're" going to end terrorism. you wear stupid very well.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:24 amFine, if you dont like the first paragraph then concentrate on the second. The US military has full-range of movement throughout Iraq, why would it be difficult for a man who orchestrated a monumental event like 911 to have a few Pave-Low helos deposit WMD warheads out in the desert?
The Iraqis themselves buried fighter-jets in the desert, yet Cheney with all his resources cant bury some crates?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:25 amThe perpetrators of the 93 bombings are all in jail and their trials are public record.
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 1:18 am
What!?!?!?! Are you ADMITTING that Clinton actually caught his terrorists? And after 2 wars, billions spent, and closing in on a million dead Iraqis, Bush STILL hasn't caught OBL? Whoa!!! STOP THE F-ING PRESSES!
Li'l Emmie FINALLY woke up!!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 1:25 amyet Cheney with all his resources cant bury some crates?
Comment by CowTown — August 4, 2007 @ 1:25 am
Apparently not... kind of puzzling, isn't it?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:25 amyet Cheney with all his resources cant bury some crates?
Comment by CowTown — August 4, 2007 @ 1:25 am
not without getting caught. you are frightfully unaware of spy satellite technology.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:27 amAll Bush ever did was inherit his family’s money and his father’s political cnnetions.
Lord knows there arent any democrats who seized such an opportunity to set themselves up in the political scene.
Hey Ted, lets have a drink. ILL drive though, if you dont mind.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:27 am"The US military has full-range of movement throughout Iraq, why would it be difficult for a man who orchestrated a monumental event like 911 to have a few Pave-Low helos deposit WMD warheads out in the desert?"
Isn't it cute when they try to reason?
How many other countries have surveallance satellites, and wouldn't they have seen throught any such gambit?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:29 amApparently not… kind of puzzling, isn’t it?
Puzzling indeed, though not very rational. I guess it depends how much you value a good conspiracy tale.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:29 amComment by ronjazz — August 4, 2007 @ 1:22 am
Are you okay, man?
Judging by some of the things you post, it seems that you might need some help.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:30 amHey Ted, lets have a drink. ILL drive though, if you dont mind.
Comment by Piper — August 4, 2007 @ 1:27 am
Yes, we all regret the wars Ted's lost and the damage he's done to America around the world. What other 40-year-old irrelevancies can you think up to show how mighty Bush the deserter is? How about Bush's own DUIs? or his coke-and-hooker habit? Or is deserting in wartime the only point of pride he has?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:31 amfunny how the war on terror has increased terrorism wordwide, but “we’re†going to end terrorism. you wear stupid very well.
Comment by ronjazz — August 4, 2007 @ 1:24 am
-----------
Defeatism at it's finest.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:32 amComment by CowTown
So you're going with incompetence over willful deceit?
OK, so why do you think this incompetent can protect the country?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:32 amHey, I'm not the one blindly following the ravings of a proven deserter and lifelong failure. You're the poor sucker defending Bush, theo. I think you may be far beyond any help currently available.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:33 amDefeatism at it’s finest.
Comment by Theophrastos
Why not just sell them weapons? It's been done before.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:35 amHow many other countries have surveallance satellites, and wouldn’t they have seen throught any such gambit?
Would they? Our enemies go to great lengths to disguise their facilities and cloak their movements; our satellite tracks are of great interest to those who wish to hide things from us. I would suspect we have the same capability to track their birds too.
With the massive amount of helo and truck traffic happening daily in Iraq, even if a satellite were to pass over a specific point, would it pick out that one spot over another? Or would it spot a small convoy of trucks that deposited the WMD in an abandoned building of a city to be found later?
You can parse it all you want but Im still not hearing any cogent excuse as to how Cheney could execute 911 without ANY discovery of evidence proving it, yet he couldnt manage to secrete munitions in a country already full of munitions.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:35 am"yet he couldnt manage to secrete munitions in a country already full of munitions."
Comment by CowTown
Except it wasn't. You keep leaving that part out.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:37 amtheo, your ignorance is as bright as a full moon. 3 billion Muslims, and you're going to defeat terrorism by invading Muslim countries and randomly killing Muslim women and children. Excellent plan, they won't take any offense. how about domestic terrorism. McVeigh? Anthrax? Unibomber? Have you defeated terrorism, or merely caught two out of three?
Delusion at its best.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:37 am“yet he couldnt manage to secrete munitions in a country already full of munitions.â€
Comment by CowTown
Except it wasn’t. You keep leaving that part out.
Comment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 1:37 am
Thank you, barfly, I was about to point that out but you beat me to it.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:39 amYou can parse it all you want but Im still not hearing any cogent excuse as to how Cheney could execute 911 without ANY discovery of evidence proving it, yet he couldnt manage to secrete munitions in a country already full of munitions.
Comment by CowTown — August 4, 2007 @ 1:35 am
Because he didn't think he had to, and it was very risky. he thought everybody would fall into line as you have. Sociopaths have certain errors in judgment. Cheney is very ill. You can't really expect him to think rationally.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:39 amWhat other 40-year-old irrelevancies can you think up to show how mighty Bush the deserter is? How about Bush’s own DUIs? or his coke-and-hooker habit?
You seem...ah..a bit hysterical. Everything all right? I was just pointing out that claiming democrats as the moral and ethical high ground probably isnt such a great idea.
Now back to your regularly scheduled rant. LOL
August 4th, 2007 at 1:40 am3 billion Muslims, and you’re going to defeat terrorism by invading Muslim countries and randomly killing Muslim women and children.
See, ron? This is what I'm talking about. I didn't say anything about invading Muslim countries and randomly killing Muslim women and children. Where did you get that?
August 4th, 2007 at 1:41 amBecause he didn’t think he had to, and it was very risky. he thought everybody would fall into line as you have. Sociopaths have certain errors in judgment. Cheney is very ill. You can’t really expect him to think rationally.
Why not do it now? Why not suddenly discover a load of WMD ammo somewhere and salvage Bush's low numbers. Its the surge after all, there are troops moving around everywhere, what a perfect opportunity to have a squad locate the WMD and subsequently vindicate Bush.
I understand that youre trying to cover all the bases but its not adding up. 911 was too big, hiding ammunition in the desert should be a cakewalk for Cheney to pull off.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:44 amNow back to your regularly scheduled rant. LOL
Comment by Piper — August 4, 2007 @ 1:40 am
yup.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:45 amSee, ron? This is what I’m talking about. I didn’t say anything about invading Muslim countries and randomly killing Muslim women and children. Where did you get that?
Comment by Theophrastos — August 4, 2007 @ 1:41 am
well, that's what Bush is doing, and you praised him. Your bloodthirstiness is all over this blog. it's a mystery why you manly men aren't off fighting the terrorists for Georgie. he can't do it himself, you know.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:46 amAsked and answered, CowTown. But keep asking, it's amusing to watch you try to get different ideas through your programming.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:48 amThanks Jane.
Posts are staring to disappear, I think I'm going to call it a night. Perhaps I'll see you and Wayne around tomorrow.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:48 amComment by barfly — August 4, 2007 @ 1:48 am
Yeah, Wayne had one go missing. We'll be around tomorrow off and on, we'll see you.
Goodnight!
August 4th, 2007 at 1:51 amYou know where he got it, in his black heart, deep down where he actually believes U.S. Marines enjoy killing civilians.
Ever wonder why the dems cant get rid of the albatross around their necks concerning their attitude towards the military; because whenever they make a little headway, a-holes like ron come along to pull them back down with tales of baby-killing soldiers.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:51 amAsked and answered, CowTown. But keep asking, it’s amusing to watch you try to get different ideas through your programming.
I feel like Im watching an old episode of the Wayans show, when the janitor stops pushing the broom and starts talking to the camera.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:56 amWhat!?!?!?! Are you ADMITTING that Clinton actually caught his terrorists? And after 2 wars, billions spent, and closing in on a million dead Iraqis, Bush STILL hasn’t caught OBL? Whoa!!! STOP THE F-ING PRESSES!
So now they are terrorists? I thought they were fairytales?
August 4th, 2007 at 8:37 amI thought they were fairytales?
Comment by m12 — August 4, 2007 @ 8:37 am
that's bull. You've never "thought".
August 4th, 2007 at 9:43 amwith tales of baby-killing soldiers.
Comment by Piper — August 4, 2007 @ 1:51 am
sorry, moron, it's the soldiers with tales of baby-killing soldiers, not me. Mai Lai sound familiar? Wedding parties blown apart by gunships sound familiar? That's what happens when the military is used for political purposes rather then defense of the country. And certainly nobody has wreaked more havoc on our military than the deserter Bush. Republicans treat soldiers like slaves; many are on their 4th and 5th rotation, destroying their families and their sanity. One marvels that there aren't more atrocities, although one also knows full well that the Bush's expertise is in hiding inconvenient facts from the public. Works great on nonthinking automatons like you, though.
August 4th, 2007 at 9:57 amUPDATE: Marty Lederman and Jack Balkin explain the details of the legislation and the White House’s opposition.
For reference, here is the first paragraph currently shown on the front page of Balkinization:
The passage of the new FISA bill by the Senate and now the House demonstrates that the Democrats stand neither for defending civil liberties nor for checking executive power.
Hey, but at least the White House isn't happy right ?
August 5th, 2007 at 5:14 amWhat exactly was "classified" about what Boehner said? Didn't everybody already know about these court rulings? See this article from May:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101357.html?hpid=topnews
It mentions a letter AGAG wrote in JANUARY on this... so if it's all public, what "classified" info is Boehner supposed to have "leaked?" Ridiculous.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:20 am