White House Uses Its Own Illegal Conduct To Wage Political Offensive Over FISA Legislation
White House Uses Its Own Illegal Conduct To Wage Political Offensive Over FISA Legislation
Earlier today, the White House rejected an agreement that had been struck between congressional leaders and the Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell to make changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), opting instead to launch a fresh political offensive over its spying activities. House Intelligence Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) explained to CQ (sub. req.) the administration pushed for more changes after Democrats reached an agreement with McConnell:
“DNI McConnell told us, ‘We need these three things.’ We gave them to him. Then he turned around and said, ‘Well, I have some other concerns.’”
Spencer Ackerman reports that the White House weighed in and overruled McConnell’s agreement with the congressional leaders. Bush declared today that he was “going to ask Congress to stay in session until they pass a bill” to his liking. The White House communications department then spammed reporters with “fact sheets” and emails about “why America needs FISA reform now.”
A central reason for the rush to push FISA legislation through Congress was revealed by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) during an appearance on Fox News earlier this week when he made reference to a secret legal opinion declaring “a key element of the Bush administration’s wiretapping efforts illegal.” “There’s been a ruling, over the last four or five months, that prohibits the ability of our intelligence services and our counterintelligence people” Boehner told Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto. Watch it:
In the decision, a “judge, whose name could not be learned, concluded early this year that the government had overstepped its authority in attempting to broadly surveil communications between two locations overseas that are passed through routing stations in the United States.” The legislation hammered out with McConnell fixes the holes created by the ruling, but the congressional leadership rejects “the administration’s insistence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales be given an expanded role to oversee the program.”
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, said “the administration proposal to grant Gonzales greater authority ‘is simply unacceptable’” in light of “allegations that the embattled attorney general has misled Congress about legal disputes over the surveillance program.”
After illegally conducting the spying program, the White House and surrogates like Boehner are using the FISA legislation to score political points. Tell Congress not to cave in to fear by rubber stamping a spying program without proper oversight HERE.
UPDATE: Marty Lederman and Jack Balkin explain the details of the legislation and the White House’s opposition. The AP reports the White House and congressional leaders have broken off talks.
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Wow - Is my government spying on me?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:33 pmCaving? Youre talking about a dem-controlled congress whose major accomplishments so far consist of renaming various post offices.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:35 pmThis is crazy. These assholes have the audacity to try and force congress to retroactively pass unconstitutional laws for them. Bush must have alot of shit on these folks. What a damn shame.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:35 pmThese people can go to hell. Every last one of them.
This is classic Bush administration nonsense. The judiciary determines something you are doing is unconstitutional, but instead of complying and playing by the rules, you rush to the press and the congress to try to bully them into enacting laws which makes what you’re doing legal - in other words, try to get congress to enact legislation the judiciary has already ruled unconsitutional. It just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:36 pmthe administration’s insistence that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales be given an expanded role to oversee the program
Oh, yup. That’s a real good idea. Maybe Gonzo could also get Mike Brown to help him out on this. And how about Bernie Kerik?
Another production brought to you by GDumbya, The Disaster President®
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:37 pmLet’s not forget that Boehner is revealing classified information here… isn’t he? If a Dem had done that he’d be burned at the Fox News stake.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 pmYeah, Viper, the Dems have had a gol-darned hard time getting things done. Any thoughts on why that might be?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 pmCan’t believe a word they say, can’t cut a deal without expecting the, Oh, just one more little detail.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:39 pmKinda Like Columbo leaving the room…Just one more thing….
I saw on yahoo, Bush says congress shouldn’t recess until he gets a bill concerning the FISA stuff he can sign. My thoughts send the bill through, and then recess, Bush can veto, then get stuck waiting. I don’t know why the dems bother with any sort of bi-partisan efforts concerning the white house, it never works.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:40 pmtell bush no
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:41 pmLet’s not forget that Boehner is revealing classified information here… isn’t he? If a Dem had done that he’d be burned at the Fox News stake.
No, the dem would be applauded.
Remember, if libs expose top-secret info theyre a brave whistle blower, if repubs do the same thing they are traitorous leakers.
‘DNC Handbook, page 17, paragraph two.’
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:43 pmThey should tell Bush to suck lemons. If he calls them back into emergency session, send him a bill cutting off all funding for the war, and immediate troop withdrawal.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:44 pmThe Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:46 pm#
The Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
More like being anally raped without the benefit of a reach around.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:48 pmTDD ~ more like a Three Stooges tragedy…
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:48 pmYeah, Viper, the Dems have had a gol-darned hard time getting things done. Any thoughts on why that might be?
Well lets see..
1) They dont have the sacred mandate they thought they had; you would think with supposedly 99% of Americans demanding out of Iraq now, they would be able to muster public support for such a thing. It worked for the immigration bill, why not now?
2) The dems are playing politics with their measures, ala the refusal to forward any Iraq proposals until after the recess hoping it will scare more republicans into switching sides. I thought the libs really really cared about the troops?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmI’m thinking Boehner was sent out to “leak” that little bit of classified information, on the White House propoganda station.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmThe dems are playing politics with their measures, ala the refusal to forward any Iraq proposals until after the recess hoping it will scare more republicans into switching sides. I thought the libs really really cared about the troops?
Comment by Pithy Viper — August 3, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
_________________
How is your semi-question related to your set-up?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:51 pmPissy, you might want to take another look and see who’s blocking legislation in the Senate by not letting it be brought up for a vote.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:51 pmThe Bush Years are like a Fellini movie.
That would mean the Clinton years were like a Reuben Sturman movie.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:52 pmAll the President’s Diversions
One would think with this many levels of evidence of illegal activity, we’d have someone in Congress put down their foot. The President’s admitted the FISA warrants were not obtained as required. The revelations since the NYT article have been a smokescreen, delaying tactic. The only thing the GOP can do is, rather than assent to FISA violations and requirement es, pretend that the requirements themselves are wrong. Wake up America: The President has admitted to illegal activity when he admitted [a] FISA court was not involved; [b] warrants were not obtained; and [c] he reserves the right to opt out of FISA requirements, regardless their connection or non-connection with domestic targets requiring a warrant.
Notice what is happening: The original FISA illegal violations are not getting attention. WH is now leaking classified information to talk about new legislation, which the President will likely ignore. Note Beohner’s disclosures don’t explain why the AG did not get a warrant for what the FISA Court said was a US-based-related communication.
Again, don’t miss the point: Rather than get the public and Congress to focus on the President’s admissions that he didn’t get FISA warrants, as required — a crime — the DOJ, EOP-OVP are attempting to make the issue something else: Whether Congress is or isn’t passing new legislation. New laws are not needed. FISA needs to be enforced. if the President was really concerned about bonafide leaks of legit activity, then he should have, when first notified of the NYT investigation in 2004-5, ordered an investigation into the leak. He didn’t do that.
DC is getting lost is a diversion. The President’s already admitted to illegal activity and FISA violations. Congress is attempting to find evidence confirming the President’s hands were on every staff member’s e-mail account. Huh? Wake up: Orders went out, the FISA court was ignored, FBI agents have been banned from the FISA court because of their lying; and the DOJ Staff counsel computers have been linked to unofficial websites when the AG said they were too busy to process FISA warrants. Why would the AG’s assertions be relevant as to whether the DOJ Staff was or wasn’t busy: It’s a requirement and the President’s admitted to the illegal activity.
Having “No FISA warrants” for a domestic-connection — on top of the Comey concerns about that illegal activity — means that the warrants were known to be required; but the President-VP ordered Gonzlaez to pressure the AG for a waiver. The President admitted that he didn’t get the warrants, and the AG late night meeting at the hospital shows the President and others knew that that legal requirement was real, not something that could be explained away then, in DoJ e-mails, in the RNC e-mails, or today in 2007 before Congress or the Grand Jury.
As to the Boehner revelations: He’s essentially admitted that there was a domestic connections, and the FISA court correctly required a warrant. At issue isn’t the FISA requirement, but the excises the US government, President, and Congress are making to bypass the FISA court and warrant requirement on domestic related intercepts. Again, the President isn’t blocked from engaging in bonafide surveillance; he’s prevented from unilaterally declaring that that domestic-connected intercept is outside FISA.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:53 pmDo You See?!?!
The Republicans are following the rules! You libs have nothing to complain about!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:53 pm“Caving? Youre talking about a dem-controlled congress whose major accomplishments so far consist of renaming various post offices.
Comment by Pithy Viper”
Got those talking points going there, don’t you. So, please tell me how the Democratic controlled congress is supposed to pass legislation when the Republicans filibuster anything they try to do? The Democrats passed quite a few major bills in the first 100 hours of office, most of which are now being filibustered by the Republicans from going any further. The only reason why we even have the minimum wage increase is because the Democrats were forced to attach it to the “off the books” “emergency” spending bill for Iraq.
I certainly hope that the Democrats don’t allow Bush to introduce another “emergency” spending bill. They should tell him to introduce the bill through regular channels and figure out how he is going to pay for it. We are going to really regret mortgaging our grand children’s futures one of these days. The time will come when we have to pay the piper.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:56 pmThe Republicans are following the rules!
WTF!? You aren’t paying attention, are you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:57 pmViper: “They dont have the sacred mandate they thought they had; you would think with supposedly 99% of Americans demanding out of Iraq now, they would be able to muster public support for such a thing. It worked for the immigration bill, why not now?”
It doesn’t matter if 100% of the American public supports something. A determined minority can indefinitely obstruct legislation unless the majority holds two-thirds or supermajorities. You know why Dems haven’t been able to get things done. You’re simply two jaded to be intellectually honest about it. But most Americans know what’s going on. That’s why 58% of respondents say they’ll vote for the Dem for congress or Senate in the next election. We’ll just get supermajorities and a Dem president and the modern conservative “movement” is done.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:58 pmThe Republicans are following the rules!
WTF!? You aren’t paying attention, are you?
Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
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Sure I am. The Republicans are going to see this thing through in Congress. Whereas in the past, that would not have even been considered.
You Libs just want to complain…
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:59 pmbilbogaggins, these people don’t give a shit what happens to their children and grandchildren, as long as they get theirs now. I’m sick to death of hearing how this “war on terror” is the struggle of the century, but by God, don’t raise my taxes. Don’t inconvenience me! Let our children pay for it! Let those children not even born yet pay for it! Not a single iota of sacrifice for this “glorious” war! In fact, give me a tax cut!
It’s sickening.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:00 pm“That’s why 58% of respondents say they’ll vote for the Dem for congress or Senate in the next election. “
It must be really embarrassing to all the Republican candidates that they are losing to “Any Ole Democrat”.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pmPolitical shenanigans aside, this dispute is precisely why Abu Gonzales has to go. He doesn’t have any credibility, so nobody in their right mind (hopefully) would trust the hack with any meaningful oversight over something like this. It’s like letting a registered sex offender babysit your kid. You’d never do it, right?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm“bilbogaggins, these people don’t give a shit what happens to their children and grandchildren, as long as they get theirs now. “
You are 100% correct. This is evidenced in their refusal to even allow for the possibility of global warming. I don’t know about you, but if I was convinced that man is not responsible for global warming, I would still be encouraging my government to do something to reverse the effects of man’s footprint on earth. Because if I am wrong, then I have just committed my grandchildren to the possibility of no future and no life.
I consider Global Warming to be a much bigger threat to our world than terrorists. Terrorists come and go. Global warming is here to stay unless we start doing something to stop it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:04 pmWho is this imbecile judge? Overturn him on appeal!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:07 pmGot those talking points going there, don’t you. So, please tell me how the Democratic controlled congress is supposed to pass legislation when the Republicans filibuster anything they try to do?
You rescind the ‘Minority Bill of Rights’â„¢ that the repubs inherited from Pelosi.
But seriously folks, you get used to the fact that the dems have the slimmest of majorities which seems to be built on the same shatpile they peddled before the 06 election; change is a’coming because the American people demand it.
So here you are, trying to sell the American people your version which stinks so badly that we dont want anything to do with it. Hear that sound? Its the utter silence coming from Americans when you talk about defeat and running from Iraq.
Doesnt sound like the noise America made about the immigration debacle does it, when the senate phone system died and email servers throughout D.C. vaporized from the flood of incoming indignation.
Cry all you want, the poll numbers are going down because of feckless dem leadership; Pelosi and Reid couldnt control a one-child daycare, much less their own caucus.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:07 pmThe judiciary determines something you are doing is unconstitutional, but instead of complying and playing by the rules, you rush to the press and the congress to try to bully them into enacting laws which makes what you’re doing legal - in other words, try to get congress to enact legislation the judiciary has already ruled unconsitutional. It just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
When was the program ruled unconstitutional?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:08 pmtully: “The Republicans are going to see this thing through in Congress.”
Finally, we agree on something! Yes they will. And it will be their undoing. When they obstruct a solution to Iraq they defy 72% of the public. When they obstruct stem cell research they derfy 85% of the public. When they push to eliminate the estate tax they work for 0.3% of the public. When they work to deny Medicare the right to bargain for lower drug prices, they work for big Pharma.
Yes, I want them to continue to demonstrate their priorities right up to the 2008 election.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:09 pmMy thoughts send the bill through, and then recess, Bush can veto, then get stuck waiting.
I’d love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:09 pmIt must be really embarrassing to all the Republican candidates that they are losing to “Any Ole Democratâ€.
It must be embarrassing to depend on polls for your livlihood. 58% of what, old people in Massachusetts and New York City contacted at noon on a workday? Well, tip me over with a feather.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:11 pmGrouser: “58% of what, old people in Massachusetts and New York City contacted at noon on a workday?”
I believe this was a Gallup or a CBS/AP poll. It was one of the big ones and, no, it is statistically impossible that they would only be asking people in New York and Mass. at noon on a workday. That’s not how large-scale statistical polls work.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:16 pmI’d love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
Comment by m12 — August 3, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Not being that familiar with this idea, can the president force congress into session, or to stay in session?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:19 pmI say the polls are wrong.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:19 pmYes, I want them to continue to demonstrate their priorities right up to the 2008 election.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 3, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
——————
You will see Republican/Conservative values at work from here on out… it’s the New American Century!!! And Isl*mists will be exposed and destroyed through out the world. Including those who are already in the USA!!!
God Bless America!!!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:22 pmI’d love to see the President send our troops after Nancy Pelosi as he calls Congress into session!
Comment by m12
You really do hate the republic, don’t you? Pathetic little totalitarian personality, eager to turn the country into a dictatorship.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:23 pmAnd Isl*mists will be exposed and destroyed through out the world. Including those who are already in the USA!!!
Comment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Genocide anyone?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:25 pmFine, whatever. Polls are polls and if you dig deep enough you will find polls that show a majority of Americans believe the moon is made of cheese. Polls change and will continue to change up to the day an election is held; its only August in 2007 for gawds sake.
Here is a poll for you from Zogby: Congress has a 3% approval number on their handling of the war, a number so abysmal that Zogby claims their margin of error was only 1% instead of the usual 3% that every other poll has had.
Believe them if you want, but if you do, then be intellectually honest enough to accept them when they change and dont align with your beliefs.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:27 pm4th Amendment, we don’t need no stinkin’ 4th Amendment.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:28 pmGenocide anyone?
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
I don’t mean all M*slims, just those that hold extr*m* views.
There are certain words that I can not say any more,
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmdue to TP’s F***IST censorship.
Here is a poll for you from Zogby: Congress has a 3% approval number on their handling of the war, a number so abysmal that Zogby claims their margin of error was only 1% instead of the usual 3% that every other poll has had.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
_________________
Sounds like folks have had it with the status quo.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmKrazny, Article II, Section 3.
The President may call extraordinary sessions of one or both Houses of Congress. If the two Houses cannot agree on a date for adjournment, the President may adjourn both Houses to such a time as he thinks fit.
Here’s one that Roosevelt called:
Whereas public interests require that the Congress of the United States should be convened in extra session at twelve o’clock, noon, on the Ninth day of March, 1933, to receive such communication as may be made by the Executive;
Now, Therefore, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim and declare that an extraordinary occasion requires the Congress of the United States to convene in extra session at the Capitol in the City of Washington on the Ninth day of March, 1933, at twelve o’clock, noon, of which all persons who shall at that time be entitled to act as members thereof are hereby required to take notice.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused to be affixed the great seal of the United States.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmComment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Define extremists views please. If you only want to target them then I guess you have a clear definition of what extremist means.
Cheers
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm46.: My views, Duh!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:32 pmThe trolls, here, love to show their true colors. The hell with the Constitution, all the while praying to the golden “bush” calf.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 pmMy views, Duh!
Comment by tully
There ya go, UKBristolDave. Another intelligent reply from the right.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 pmWhy do we need a 4th Amendment anyway? I trust the government . . .why whould they lie to us?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmNOT.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
Not all extr*mists, Isl*m*F*sc*sts and M*sl*mSh*t**ters. And I would love to say more, but TP won’t even let me define the concept of “the enemy”
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmA troll a day keeps the truth away.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmThere ya go, UKBristolDave. Another intelligent reply from the right.
Comment by Candyce — August 3, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
That is an impostor.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
Hey UKDave, how’s it going? ;)
Later.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmWhen was the program ruled unconstitutional?
Comment by m12
In the 1970s when Congress found out the same things were going on… that is why they passed FISA.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmFighting against the Constitution over here, so we don’t have to fight it over there. The bushco creed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmWell, the Left has resorted to name-jacking and personal insults…
we all know that means trolls win.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmBut of course, I only spew bile.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:37 pmDefine extremists views please. If you only want to target them then I guess you have a clear definition of what extremist means.
Cheers
Comment by UKBristolDave
Yeah, like you’ll get an answer to that.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmMore military people have donated money to Ron Paul (Constitutionalist against just about everything the NeoCons are for including Iraq) than they did any other Republican so far…
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmwe all know that means trolls win.
Comment by Glaukon — August 3, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
F*ck that, I just had one deleted — and no vile racism.
We’re even.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmIt just further demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the consitution and the institutions which have risen around it.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 3, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
Careful mon Colonel… you’re using “facts” to make “sense”.
Why do “facts” and “sense” hate America so?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pmHi, Zooey. Hi, TRoS.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:39 pmYeah, like you’ll get an answer to that.
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
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I would have like to answer. But you know how TP is now-a-days.
Ask Zooey……
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmMore military people have donated money to Ron Paul (Constitutionalist against just about everything the NeoCons are for including Iraq) than they did any other Republican so far…
Wait…you learned that from a poll, right? Bwaaaa
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmTrent Franks makes me nauseous.
These people know no bounds. They have the audacity to try to pull this right now.
Fearmonger asshats!
If they give Gonzo one SHRED of power with FISA we are truly screwed.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmThis is all because they are trying to cover the fact that they AGAIN publically released classified info. and let the cat outta the bag that the FISA judge ruled this warrantless wiretap crap ILLEGAL. Now they want to shift it around so judges don’t have a say, only Gonzo does!
UNREAL
Col. Jack: Swatting trolls, one at a time. Rock on, Col.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmThere are too many libtrolls in here!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmComment by tully — August 3, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
OK, but perhaps calling people M*sl*mSh*te*ters isn’t a good idea. It will end up on websites in the Middle East as “proof” that Americans hate Muslims. I don’t think stoking the fire is a very good idea at the moment.
What does qualify as an extremist though? I have my own opinion but I am genuinely interested in yours.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:41 pmYou really do hate the republic, don’t you?
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
Hate the Republic? Moi???? But… but… I’m so warm… and cuddly…. and… and… lovable. Surely, you speak of some other, less likable Republic, sir!
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:42 pmCandyce, ’sup?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:43 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Newp.
You guys think the military is all pro-NeoCon… man do you have a wake up call coming…
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:44 pmThere are too many libtrolls in here!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Then perhaps Theophrastos should head for the door, whilst his trollones are still intact…
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:45 pmI don’t think stoking the fire is a very good idea at the moment.
I dont think they need much of an excuse considering 27 people died over some cartoons.
Hell, Gwen Stefani cant even wear a skirt in Malaysia because a few dimwits are afraid of seeing female legs.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:46 pmYou guys think the military is all pro-NeoCon… man do you have a wake up call coming…
You made the statement, now back it up. Source your claim for all to see.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:48 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Sooooo when are you going to invent that extremist detecting missle?
Oh you cant? So that means your entire approach since 911 has been completely retarded?
Ok now that makes more sense about why you say the things you do.
Ever hear that there is more than one way to skin a cat? Have any clue what that means?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 pmHi, Everybody. Good job, Candyce, rinding that Constitutional Quote. I was scanning the comments and decided to refresh before doing what you did.
Yes, he can do that, and the sad part is that the determination of what constitutes (no pun intended) an “extraordinary occasion” is left up to him. He might decide that all his lies becoming uncovered and unraveled would be an “extraordinary occasion”. Anyway, he can call them into session, but he can’t tell them what to do. He can keep threatening to call them back, and they can move for adjournment as soon as they show up if they want to. They could play that game all August long if it pleases everyone. But then you won’t get that chance to meet your Congresspeople when they come back home during this month.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 pmComment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Okay. But first of all I didn’t use the word unqualified as you seem to be doing now. I said:
If it was unclear, I apologize. But I was talking about M*slim Extr*m*sts.
I want this to get through, and I will answer in my next post.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:50 pmOK, but perhaps calling people M*sl*mSh*te*ters isn’t a good idea. It will end up on websites in the Middle East as “proof†that Americans hate Muslims.
Oof da, we wouldnt want to stoke the fire with our free-speech, now would we?
How many centuries do you think it will be before the muslim extremists feel secure enough that they wont decide to murder me because I call them names?
Ahhhh forget it, we have already been waiting for about 1000 years and it aint going to happen. Might as well enjoy it while we can.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:51 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
Fully agree. That was an example of pure manipulation of events to get a result. Straight propaganda and it was despicable.
Grouser, I’m on the left of the political spectrum but I’m not a total tool.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:53 pmGerald, all Im asking for is the source you used to make the claim about troops sending cash to Ron Paul.
Does it exist or did you pull it out of your a$$?
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:54 pmYou made the statement, now back it up. Source your claim for all to see.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Use Google yourself .. it was in recent news… maybe you will learn something while searching..
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:55 pmOkay, it went through.
The USA needs to gather intelligence on, hunt down, and destroy, any and all Isl*m*Extr*m*sts, these are M*sl*ms that put Isl*m above everything, and who want to inflict harm on Americans in the name of All*h,
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:56 pmYou really do hate the republic, don’t you?
Comment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
Hate the Republic? Moi???? But… but… I’m so warm… and cuddly…. and… and… lovable. Surely, you speak of some other, less likable Republic, sir!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I was definitely referring to a much much older republic. Kind of wrinkly and definitely battered.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:58 pmComment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
OK, it is your right to call members of the Muslim community whatever you want. However, you have to consider if it is strategically the right thing to do. At the moment I’d say it isn’t. We currently have X amount of Muslim believers trying to kill both you and me. Personally, it pisses me off. To try and minimise the risk, I want to try and win over as many followers of Islam as I can. That way we drain the swamp and isolate the nutters.
Tossing insults around only adds to the appeal of the extremists. I have no doubt you want to win the War on Terror. So do I. Pissing people off is a sure fire way to lose.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pmNever said you were a fool, Dave, I guess Im just tired of being told I need to tippy-toe around muslim sensibilities because they cant handle any criticism.
The simplest of events, words, pictures or displays seem to provoke a rage in so many muslims, so I doubt that one guy here saying “muslim shateater” is going to make a dent in the considerable pile the extremists claim as anti-muslim bigotry.
Like another poster said earlier, we might as well enjoy our free-speech; I dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pmit is your right to call members of the M*slim community whatever you want.
Not all M*slims are M*sl*mSh*t*aters.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Did you hear about the schools in the UK that refuse to teach the Holocaust because they don’t want to offend the Holocaust denying M*slims?
Pretty pathetic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:03 pmtully doesn’t want to wipe out all Muslims.
tully: “I don’t mean all M*slims, just those that hold extr*m* views.”
I see. Holding an “extreme view” is a capital offense. Hmmmm. You conservatives need to get a hold of yourselves. Democracy is not for the faint of heart and I can see it’s very taxing to your delicate sensibilities.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:03 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Yeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:06 pmYeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
—–
Really?
http://education.guardian.co.uk/ schools/ story/ 0,,2048161,00.html
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:10 pmI see. Holding an “extreme view†is a capital offense. Hmmmm. You conservatives need to get a hold of yourselves. Democracy is not for the faint of heart and I can see it’s very taxing to your delicate sensibilities.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Not to mention, it’s a comic book view of Muslims, even fundamentalist Muslims. It requires completely ignoring what the “extremists” say about their own motives — that the want the West out of their countries, that they want the West to stop propping up authoritarian regimes like those in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and that they want to control their own countries.
I’m not fond of fundamentalists of any stripe. I hate the way that the Muslim fundies in a lot of these countries treat women, I was completely appalled when the Taliban destroyed those magnificent statues of the Buddha, but I completely understand that they do not want foreigners telling them how to live or supporting autocrats like the House of Saud.
But it’s not my country, and there isn’t a single Muslim nation that actively seeks to conquer the US, if we would simply stop interfering in their part of the world.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Look, for me it’s a bit of a nightmare as well. I’m an atheist but with a big belief in respecting other peoples religious beliefs. I’ve learnt that certain things offensive to Christians aren’t offensive to Muslims and vice versa. The Danish cartoon thing was a total joke - offense was whipped up around the world but the two very offensive images (showing Mohammed and Allah) were constructs.
I also work with some colleagues who are very strong believers in Christ. Hence when I balls things up I no longer take the Lords name in vain as I know it will offend them.
I try and accomodate every reasonable request to tolerate religious belief. However, if anyone wants to blow me up about it I will take serious offence.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:12 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
Yes! That’s it! Isl*mic R*dicals are cool, except when they mistreat women!!!
BwAhHAhAHahhAHHAhAhAhA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, don’t you have someone to surrender to?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 pmYeah. It was totally debunked as bollocks.
Comment by UKBristolDave — August 3, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
—–
Really?
http://education.guardian.co.uk/ schools/ story/ 0,,2048161,00.html
Comment by Theophrastos
Looks like he got you this time, Dave. Point to the blind squirrel.
It is pretty appalling, if true. Just as inexcusable as the schools in the US who were choosing not to teach Evolution, or who thought they needed to teach ID alongside it.
If parents don’t want their children hearing things that challenge their beliefs, they should ship them off to private school.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:14 pmif we would simply stop interfering in their part of the world.
So I take it you were against the invasion of Afghanistan?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:15 pmYes! That’s it! Isl*mic R*dicals are cool, except when they mistreat women!!!
BwAhHAhAHahhAHHAhAhAhA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, don’t you have someone to surrender to?
Comment by Theophrastos
No one gave you the role of policing the behavior of other people, idiot, no more than anyone gave the US the role of policing the behavior of people in other countries. If you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation — run by Afghani women.
You don’t get to blow them up just to prove you’re right and they’re wrong. Not to mention, it’s a totally ineffective method of changing people’s behavior.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:17 pmAnd I would also hope that you are against ANY type of aid to muslim countries, as this might constitute interference. Let them figure it out, even if it means civil war in Palestine.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm“Its the utter silence coming from Americans when you talk about defeat and running from Iraq.”
Oh really, then why do 64% of the people in this country want us to get out of Iraq. Hardly sounds like silence to me.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm“When was the program ruled unconstitutional?
Comment by m12 ”
About 5 months ago. But it was supposed to be top secret until Boner spilled the beans the other day. Don’t keep up with the news much do you mommy12?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmIf you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation — run by Afghani women.
Yes, and then we send them to Kabul to harangue the Taliban about womens rights. Two hours later the women are carted off to the old soccer stadium to receive their official response in the form of a bullet to the head.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmONE history department in northern England chose not to include the Holocaust in its curriculum to avoid conflict. ONE.
NOT the entire school system. In fact it is compulsory. Every other school in England has it in the curriculum. This lie was spread by one of those email campaigns.
Snopes is your friend.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 pmComment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
I admit I have read different versions of the event. OK, the key thing must be the last line, which I have quoted below
“Teaching of the Holocaust is expected to become compulsory under the new national curriculum from next year.”
If we had a problem then it is now resolved.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:21 pmIf you disapprove of the way Afghanis treat women, we can easily come up with a good solid list of organizations working to change the situation — run by Afghani women.
Yes, and then we send them to Kabul to harangue the Taliban about womens rights. Two hours later the women are carted off to the old soccer stadium to receive their official response in the form of a bullet to the head.
Comment by LibTeenie
Ah, so you don’t think such work is being done already? You really need to read something besides NewsMax on occasion.
And, in case you hadn’t noticed, the Taliban no longer runs Kabul. You really are completely out of touch with reality, aren’t you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:22 pmOh really, then why do 64% of the people in this country want us to get out of Iraq. Hardly sounds like silence to me.
Jeebus, do you and Gerald scope the same polls? Its a POLL, so show me the source for this number and we can move on with it, then explain how the public could meltdown over immigration in just one week but not do the same for the war in four years? Thats the point about the “silence”; you want to live on the polls but its just a POLL.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:23 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Apparently not gummitch….
I remember this story in the UK press. I know it turned into a non-story very quickly but can’t remember why.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 pmAnd I would also hope that you are against ANY type of aid to muslim countries, as this might constitute interference. Let them figure it out, even if it means civil war in Palestine.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Is this how the Republic “brain” works? Leaping around without any logical connections?
Your buddy George and his friends are in the process of giving billions of dollars worth of armaments to the Saudis, who really couldn’t afford to buy anything on their own. Not to mention billions more to the Egyptians, so they can keep a good tight lid on any incipient democracy, and to the Israelis who always need more weapons.
But buddy George has completely ignored the Israeli-Palestinian question since he took office and now the Arab leaders are thinking his next scheduled visit is just a photo op. I wonder where they got that idea?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:26 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Apparently not gummitch….
I remember this story in the UK press. I know it turned into a non-story very quickly but can’t remember why.
Comment by UKBristolDave
Sorry; I should have given you a chance to respond first. At least this turns the universe back right side up. Thinking Mr Pee was right about something was warping the fabric of this dimension.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:27 pmAh, so you don’t think such work is being done already? You really need to read something besides NewsMax on occasion.
And, in case you hadn’t noticed, the Taliban no longer runs Kabul. You really are completely out of touch with reality, aren’t you?
Uh…you said that we cant change people by blowing them up, yet the Taliban were evicted by…er…blowing them up. Afghan women’s groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 pmDemocrats in DC should tell Bush that they will give him NOTHING. If Dubya does not like it, then he can resign and move to Paraguay.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Irrelevant. Completely.
Interference is interference, whether it comes in the form of military invasion or gobs of financial aid. If you advocate non-interference then it stands to reason that we should do it across the board; money given might very well determine an interior struggle between competing groups since we would be…uhh…interfering if we tried to guide those funds.
Its the same argument being made today, that we need to pull out of Iraq because we are in the middle of a civil war.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
No worries fella. As I say, it was in the tabloids for a day, some investigation was done and it was shown to be total pony.
When I left school, OK it was 11 years ago, we were taken on a school trip to Germany to visit a concentration camp. It was a life changing moment. On the way back to England we stopped at one of the mass World War 1 cemeteries for the unknown dead. The scale of the slaughter became clear. Jesus, on the first day of the Somme the Brits had 60,000 casualties.
I can’t envisage anyone being pro-war after experiencing that. I accept that war has to happen in certain circumstances but what both our countries are involved in now…..no way does it justify it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 pmThe USA needs to gather intelligence on, hunt down, and destroy, any and all Isl*m*Extr*m*sts, these are M*sl*ms that put Isl*m above everything, and who want to inflict harm on Americans in the name of All*h,
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
_____________________
Which has nothing to do with how women are treated in Muslim countries.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 pmUh…you said that we cant change people by blowing them up, yet the Taliban were evicted by…er…blowing them up. Afghan women’s groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
Comment by LibTeenie
See, I had no idea you were all about women’s rights, here and abroad. This is intriguing. I’m sure you’re now ready to invade India, because thousands of little girls are regularly kidnapped from their families and sold into prostitution. Good for you. When you join up and get through boot camp, be sure to tell them you want to be sent to India.
Or you could go over and do your good works in Afghanistan, where we have done pretty much NOTHING to change the role of women. Do a little light reading and find out what happens to adulterous women now. Or to women who have been raped. Or women who want a divorce. Or women who don’t want a divorce for that matter.
You’re not very good at either logical thinking or keeping up, are you?
So, no, blowing people up does nothing to change behavior. We may change the players, although in this case we mostly just moved them off the board a little.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 pmI can’t envisage anyone being pro-war after experiencing that.
Just for arguments sake and Id like to know your opinion, was WWII worth it to stop Hitler had he never invaded anyone, all else being the same?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pmIrrelevant. Completely.
Interference is interference, whether it comes in the form of military invasion or gobs of financial aid. If you advocate non-interference then it stands to reason that we should do it across the board; money given might very well determine an interior struggle between competing groups since we would be…uhh…interfering if we tried to guide those funds.
Its the same argument being made today, that we need to pull out of Iraq because we are in the middle of a civil war.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
“Interference” has a very specific meaning. You might want to look it up.
When people invite you to help resolve a conflict, it’s not “interference”, at least not in the English language.
You persist in making leaps that have no logical connection, and you have to pad the holes with asinine assumptions. Where did I ever suggest it was appropriate to send money of any kind to the Middle East? Weapons? Cash? Anything? What? Nothing? I never suggested that?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 pmIf the Democrats pass what Bush wants, then they are OKing Gonzales to spy on all of them. Does anyone in DC have a brain anymore?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:46 pmWhich has nothing to do with how women are treated in Muslim countries.
Comment by Typical Defeatest Democrat — August 3, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
——–
What the hell are talking about?
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:47 pmthrow a “you” in there for me, thanks.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:47 pmLibteenie, Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO,
I think there is only one thing that we can do now…
Say the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmLike another poster said earlier, we might as well enjoy our free-speech; I dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
__________________
Nor do I want any of the other freedoms guaranteed me by the Constitution to be abridged because of some imam (or anyone else) in Saudi Arabia.
Nor am I interested in having my rights infringed upon by some American fundamentalists with pre-first-century worldviews.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmWhat the hell are talking about?
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
___________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pmOk, your logic stream seems to have been diverted to a holding pond.
Youre worried that Afghan women havent gained anything since the fall of the Taliban, so Ill have to wonder where you were BEFORE the Taliban were driven out since they were the worst of the worst in that regard.
Plain and simple, the left doesnt care two shats about anyone until they can be used for political gain; witness the deaths of Iraqis that the left wails about when half of them couldnt find Iraq on a map before 2003.
And you are completely wrong about blowing people up, war has done more to change people, cultures and governments than any other force in history. Hitler’s Germany and Tojo’s Japan being prime examples.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:53 pmComment by Candyce — August 3, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
What the f*ck is “Snopes,” I got my info from the Guardian article, linked above. It says “schools,” so I said “schools.” No one lied, except for the schools in the UK that denied the Holocaust because they didn’t want to offend sh*t*ating M*slims.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 pmSay the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Better check the spelling 1st…
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 pmBush: “Let’s work together and get a compromise.”
Reality: “You do what I tell you, or ELSE!”
Dems should just give him the middle-finger and leave. Seriously.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:55 pmComment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Grouser, this is an argument that has been rattling on between historians since the end of WWII. To start with, fighting in WWII was legitimate as sovereign nations were attacking and international law broken.
I think the problem we have with discussing earlier European war is that we are missing the context. A generation earlier we’d experienced the slaughter of WWI - only Germany envisaged a different war. Europe was also in the depths of the Great Recession so focus was on that.
I could go on for hours but I obviously would have preferred military involvement following the annex of the Sudetenland. However, the context of 1930’s Europe meant it wasn’t going to happen. Hitler read the situation superbly and achieved his goals.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:56 pmSay the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
I gratefully accept. Nothing brings on nonpartisan cooperation like a solidarity march!
Now we need a topic….ummmm….how about “Gummitch Cares More About Women Than John Edwards” (no small feat there).
Yes, I like it. Banners and porta-potties, lets get on it people!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:57 pmI think there is only one thing that we can do now…
Say the word Libteenie and I’ll have 1500 banners made by tomorrow morning…
Comment by Theophrastos
Typical. Put on the spot where you need to support your blithering with logic and facts, you resort to childish games, seeking support of your fellow trolls.
Pathetic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:57 pmThey could play that game all August long if it pleases everyone. But then you won’t get that chance to meet your Congresspeople when they come back home during this month.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 3, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
It would also prevent Bru$ch from making any recess appointments… Doh!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 pmNow we need a topic….ummmm….how about “Gummitch Cares More About Women Than John Edwards†(no small feat there).
Yes, I like it. Banners and porta-potties, lets get on it people!
Comment by LibTeenie
Right on cue: Pathetic II
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 pmGummitch… can you bring the lattes?
Remember, I can only drink soy-milk!
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:59 pmWhat the f*ck is “Snopes,†I got my info from the Guardian article, linked above. It says “schools,†so I said “schools.†No one lied, except for the schools in the UK that denied the Holocaust because they didn’t want to offend sh*t*ating M*slims.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
______________
Not teaching about the Holocaust is ridiculous. As someone said earlier, it is just like the attempt to remove the teaching of evolution from the schools, just because some religious group finds it offensive.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 pmI was just wondering since the allies didnt really have a clue as to the massive extent of Hitler’s extermination programs until late in the war.
How would our nations have responded if Hitler had never invaded anyone or annexed territory yet we knew he was murdering everyone in sight.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 pmBush asked Congress to stay in session? This from the guy who takes a vacation when he gets a hangnail or a hangover. Hasn’t he taken more vacations than any other president?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 pmI dont want to muzzle it because some imam in Saudi Arabia might have his tenth-century worldview offended.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
Or some fundalmentalist in Kansas has his eighteenth-century worldview turned upside down…
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 pmI do believe that Gummitch is thrilled with the theme of our march. I say we nominate him as Master of Ceremonies, lets take a vote.
I voted aye and the ayes have it! Congratulations Big G!
This will be such a grand march…Im so excited!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:02 pmDoes anyone else get the idea that the trolls have conceded the argument?
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:03 pmComment by gummitch — August 3, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
No one was ever “put on the spot” by you and crew of Islamic apologists.
1) One of you says that we should watch what we say because some sh*t*ater in Islamisandibad may see it one day.
2) I link an article to the Guardian which shows how the UK schools are scared of offending M*slim Holocaust deniers, and someone comes along with a link to “snopes” (whatever the hell that is) claiming it is an urban legend.
3) You say that it is wrong to enforce out values on these backwards sand-monkeys… but that something has to be done to stop the abuse of women!!!
The Left is defined by contradiction… Let’s March!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:04 pmJeebus, do you and Gerald scope the same polls? Its a POLL, so show me the source for this number and we can move on with it, then explain how the public could meltdown over immigration in just one week but not do the same for the war in four years? Thats the point about the “silenceâ€; you want to live on the polls but its just a POLL.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
I see you have still not used Google… POLLs have nothing to do with counting politicl donations… This stupidity is why I refuse to look up the links for you neocons any more…. you are lazy and post links that discredit your own arguments because you are too lazy to read beyond the headline before you post it… and even when a complete slap down is provided you still refuse to change your stance like some rediculous child…
And guess what POLLs… are questions asked to PEOPLE not robots or whatever you try to insinuate about polling… polling provide real numbers about real answer real people gave to real questions… but like scientific numerical testing you only believe in your own gut BS… that way you never have to be wrong…
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 pmOr some fundalmentalist in Kansas has his eighteenth-century worldview turned upside down…
Im with ya sister, though I dont recall any preachers in Kansas exhorting their congregation to martyr themselves against those who dont believe the way they do.
Our processes get worked out in the political realm instead of with an AK-47.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 pmHow would our nations have responded if Hitler had never invaded anyone or annexed territory yet we knew he was murdering everyone in sight.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO — August 3, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
—————
Well, like Rwanda… Clinton and the UN would have sat back and watched the exterminations. However, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:08 pmAfghan women’s groups wouldnt have lasted one hour under the Taliban, so either youre perfectly happy to have women literally destroyed by the Taliban or youre accepting of our invasion and interference.
Like you also said, we shouldnt be interfering their lives. You did say that, didnt you?
So much for reality. Youre not very good at this, are you?
Comment by LibTeenie — August 3, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
“Historically, Iraqi women and girls have enjoyed relatively more rights than many of their counterparts in the Middle East. The Iraqi Provisional Constitution (drafted in 1970) formally guaranteed equal rights to women and other laws specifically ensured their right to vote, attend school, run for political office, and own property. Yet, since the 1991 Gulf War, the position of women within Iraqi society has deteriorated rapidly.”
Hmmm….
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:09 pmWhen are the republicans going to stop supporting the people that attacked America on 911? Last I read they were about to send them billions in military weapons… providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Diverting America away from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan by leading us into Iraq… providing aid to the enemy? I think so…
Refusing to remove the leverage of forieng oil from the American economy even after 911… providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Using religious bigotry to stoke the fires of muslims that wouldnt normally lean towards extremism… providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:09 pmNo one was ever “put on the spot†by you and crew of Islamic apologists.
1) One of you says that we should watch what we say because some sh*t*ater in Islamisandibad may see it one day.
2) I link an article to the Guardian which shows how the UK schools are scared of offending M*slim Holocaust deniers, and someone comes along with a link to “snopes†(whatever the hell that is) claiming it is an urban legend.
3) You say that it is wrong to enforce out values on these backwards sand-monkeys… but that something has to be done to stop the abuse of women!!!
The Left is defined by contradiction… Let’s March!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:11 pmHowever, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
This is an absurd contention. First it was WMDs. Then was “exporting democracy”. And the new “reason”? Stopping a genocide?
Perhaps you should have a menu, w/ a raison du jour on it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:11 pmHave you all figured out their belief that: anyone who does not support their insanity is against them and considered a target.They can pick who they target.They decide who they don’t like.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:12 pmTheir war is really as simple as they say: us against them.
But their “us” is the very few bushcons and their “them” is the whole world now.
Using religious bigotry to stoke the fires of muslims that wouldnt normally lean towards extremism… providing aid to the enemy? I think so.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 3, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Oh no, we wouldn’t want to stoke the fires of our enemy…
Hell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:13 pmWell, like Rwanda… Clinton and the UN would have sat back and watched the exterminations. However, Bush isn’t going to let that same scenario play out in Iraq.
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:13 pmLessee if I’ve got this right.,.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:14 pmThe courts said that the existing way Bushits are conducting surveillance without warrants is illegal.
So they demand a bill to make the illegal warrantless wiretaps legal?
They want the judicial review AFTER the fact, when the privacy violations have already occurred?
That’s like breaking into someone’s home, then asking the legislature to say, hey, it’s OK, they didn’t take the stereo!
Our processes get worked out in the political realm instead of with an AK-47.
Comment by Grouser TRex-Omaha PVO
Apparently you know very little about western history or you dont realize that most of the world is still behind America in modernization… if you grew up in the boonies in Kansas and compared that to growing up in the boonies in Pakistan you would know that rule of law in most of the world is looked the same way the bushies look at it…
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pmHell, maybe we should invite them over to our homes and let them f*ck our wives and daughters!!!
Genius!!!!!
Comment by Theophrastos — August 3, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
_________________
oh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pm“Snopes” is a family in William Faulkner’s work. The archtypical decaying, inbred Southern