http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

But when pushed, the nation still can rise up and be heard. Historically, when that happens, the shift is to the right, not to the left. Call it a “correction” if you will.

Three counter-examples:

The New Deal in response to the Great Depression brought on by what was essentially an American aristocracy
Labor Laws brought on by the horrible abuses to workers during the Industrial Revolution
The Food and Drug Act of 1906 (Wiley act) in response to works by authors such as Upton Sinclair

These are 3 instances where a single stimuli resulted in liberal legislation. In fact, it is arguable that no single stimulus has ever brought about conservative legislation. Let’s take the Patriot Act for example. This Act was the result of the 9/11 attacks and resulted in what is certainly not conservative legislation (as the conservative values you laid out). The Patriot act resulted in larger government coupled with larger government spending and a great deal more intrusion into our daily lives. Even the welfare reform you refer to does not adhere to strictly conservative principles as it requires an expanded beurocracy to monitor welfare or “workfare” recipients. Again, something contradictory to the conservative principles you define.

This is all beside the point though. Every political movement started out as a fringe component of some other belief system. Even the Republican party started out as a collection of other political parties’ radical members that opposed the expansion of slavery. At that time, it was the abolitionists who were considered a fringe movement. As then with the Republicans, today the “radical left” is dismissed as a fringe element with outlandish ideas of equality and progressivism. I’m not saying that one day the “DailyKos party” will one day be as powerful as todays republicans but it is difficult to dismiss them, particularly given the notariaty that they have received as of late.

I would agree with you that America is conservative to a point. We do desire lower taxes and smaller government. However, socially, America will continue to drift to the left…not out of apathy but out of compassion and understanding. I suppose that means we will all be quasi-liberatarians someday, with some attention paid to public welfare.

Comment by erock — August 4, 2007 @ 10:05 am”

And more people show up at car shows, bike rallies, GPAA Gold and Treasure Shows, etc. etc. I think more than 100,000 showed up to watch the city of Tulsa, Oklahoma dig up a 1958 Plymouth that had been buried for 50 years(and it ended up looking like it had been sitting in water and mud for 40 years).

My point didn’t have anything to do with “legitimacy”. YearlyKos all you want, get togethers of like minds are generally pretty fun. My point is that the same type of far left thinkers have been with us for generations, and the percentage of the general population who think like that is still pretty small.

The United States is still a pretty conservative (I didn’t say Republican, I said conservative) country. We want low taxes, little, if any, government intrusion, a stable economy, a good job, a nice house, 32 inch plasma screen TV, etc. etc. When most folks, even those classified by some arbitrary scale as “poor”, can have these things, it is difficult to make the case that there should be radical change. And indeed, why should there be? If the system works, leave it alone.

Most people in this country are not politically active. Most people do not vote. We allow our “leaders” to pretty much get away with anything, including “drifts” to the left through creeping tax increases, creeping increases in social programs, creeping regulations and relaxed social standards.

But when pushed, the nation still can rise up and be heard. Historically, when that happens, the shift is to the right, not to the left. Call it a “correction” if you will.

Even Bill Clinton was aware of this – It was a Democrat who pushed, and passed, welfare reform – a conservative principle.

The 2004 Republic National Convention had 2,509 delegates and 2,344 alternate delegates totalling 4853 total in attendence. So simply using your attendence metric for legitimacy, Kos has already achieved 25% of the legitimicay of the Republican party. Also, based on the college football games I have attended in the past year, Virginia Tech is 6 to 7 times more legitimate than the Republican party.

Comment by Jay Randal — August 3, 2007 @ 3:07 pm”

How many folks are at YearlyKos? 1200? 1400? That’s not enough to vote anyone in or out of office. The lunatic fringe of the left has found a voice in the internet, and is getting a lot of press, but the numbers are pretty much the same as they have been all along-miniscule.

Only difference is that now all the talk is open to the general public, rather than limited to the minimal readership of a few kook left old-time printed newsletters.

Already the Democrats have figured out that they can pretty much ignore the “netroots” except for around election time, when they will throw a few bones for a few votes, just as they have all along.

I figure one, maybe two, more election cycles and it will be all over. The Democrats won’t even acknowledge the far-left websites anymore.

It was fun! Thanks, upside00. :)

Rock hound.

*nose in air*

:-D

Your erroneous assumptions in that post include (but are not limited to) the following:

-The soldier was shouted down due to his dissenting opinion
-I claimed that Kos was absolutely inclusive rather than simply more inclusive
-Kos recognizes and objects to a “good ole boy” network
-Kos rewards the banning of members and deletion of comments by monitors
-The solution to providing civil discourse is independent of the level of inclusivity that an organization provides

As has been pointed out, the soldier was prevented from speaking out to prevent him from violating the rules set out by the Armed Forces.

Kos’ function is that of a business, providing a venue for civil discourse while collecting revenues from advertising to those who come to discuss current events. I applaud their ability to maintain said discussions while allowing a much higher level of inclusivity than its right wing analogs. It would be foolish to assume that the site can be absolutely inclusive AND conduct its business successfully. Unfortunately, they have chosen to do this by bestowing the banning/deletion powers to its monitors who occassionally abuse these powers. Is there a better way? As of yet, neither of us has suggested a more practical method though I have no doubt that one exists.

Me thinks we may have mined this quarry to depletion.

But, yes, it was fun. We do need some of that once in a while.

Thanks all, for indulging a bit of the smileys today!

Comment by RUCerious — August 3, 2007 @ 6:52 pm

My sedimentaries exactly. I chert wish Tully could get the schist of it.

Mr Pee is such a frickin’ cranky old man.

Always best to take one’s own advice.

BTW, it’s called fun. Try it sometime…..somewhere else.

It’s moronic Physical Geology 101 vocab day at TP!

Comment by erock

Then you have a ‘tin ear’ for “sounds like.” How Kos treats dissent is an entirely different issue from the solution to the problem. I merely pointed out that the issue of the soldier being shouted down or silenced by Kos members is not an isolated one, however much you prefer to frame my reply.

It has happened frequently on the site itself, with, as I now understand it, even the encouragement of Kos. That does not sound like anything approaching an egalitarian forum.

By your logic there does not exist an inclusive organization anywhere. The fact that you can read dissenting opinion within the dKos comments indicates to me that they are far more inclusive than say lucianne or redstate where left-leaning posters have their comments removed and their membership revoked within seconds.

In your apparent haste to reframe my reply by insinuating “my logic,” you overlook the idea that Kos is objecting to the government’s “good ‘ol boy” network by apparently implementing one of his own. One that also excludes rational input and rewards abuse with stature of “monitors” for the ‘regulars.’ Claiming Kos is inclusive because they allow a brief period for dissent to exist before the posters are abused and their comments disappeared for the larger audience is disingenuous.

You should all pumice to be gneiss, (if you phyllite it.) You could end up marbling at how coal you feel.

Project much?

We hadn’t even covered the thrusting and heaving of the earth’s crust. :(