Think Progress

During Politicized FISA Debate, Nadler Forced To Withdraw ‘Truthful And Accurate Statement’ That Bush Broke The Law»

Yesterday, under heavy political pressure from the White House, the Senate approved a bill that provided expansive spying authority for the Bush administration. The White House had earlier rejected a compromise bill that provided powers sought by the Director of National Intelligence, opting instead to play politics with the issue.

Moments ago, the House passed the White House-backed Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) bill by a 227-183 vote.

During the heated House floor debate over the legislation, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) said the White House-backed FISA legislation was nothing more than a political ploy:

This bill is what Karl Rove and his political operatives in the White House have decided they need to win elections. That’s not national security. That’s political warfare.

I do not believe we will soon be able to undo this damage. Rights given away are not easily regained. This bill is not needed to protect America from terrorists. The only purpose of this bill is to protect this administration from its own political problems and cynicism, and its own illegal actions it has taken outside the law without any authorization.

In a symbolic move that reflected the efforts by many conservatives to politicize the FISA debate, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) immediately rose and asked that Nadler withdraw his statement that the Bush administration had conducted illegal activities.

After some pause, Nadler said he would withdraw his “truthful and accurate statements” in order to proceed with the floor debate. Issa, unhappy with Nadler’s retraction, said, “He is not withdrawing it if he claims they’re accurate.” Nadler responded, “I’m withdrawing them without any reservation but I retain my opinion.” Watch it:

Issa’s comments reflected the nature of the FISA debate — conservatives were more concerned with providing political cover for the White House than passing legislation that addressed national security concerns.

Nadler’s comments are hardly inaccurate. The current FISA debate was precipitated by the fact that a court had ruled the administration’s spying actions were outside the law. Just this week, Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) revealed a secret court ruling that found “a key element of the Bush administration’s wiretapping efforts illegal.”

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267 Responses to “During Politicized FISA Debate, Nadler Forced To Withdraw ‘Truthful And Accurate Statement’ That Bush Broke The Law”


  1. Chris from Maine Says:

    the house should be ashamed of itself. giving the emperor more power to spy without any oversight, simply so they can go on vacation.

    shame.


  2. Zooey Says:

    This bill is what Karl Rove and his political operatives in the White House have decided they need to win elections. That’s not national security. That’s political warfare.

    I do not believe we will soon be able to undo this damage. Rights given away are not easily regained. This bill is not needed to protect America from terrorists. The only purpose of this bill is to protect this administration from its own political problems and cynicism, and its own illegal actions it has taken outside the law without any authorization.

    Nadler is absolutely correct.

    I wish he wasn’t so polite….


  3. Goraidh Says:

    I don’t know why I voted for the Democrats these past elections, but I can guarantee it won’t happen again. If a vote for third party is a vote for republicans, as they say, so be it. The Democrats aren’t any better anymore.


  4. Marie Says:

    I do not understand what the dems are afraid of — the people are behind them - yet they keel over every time.
    They disgust me.


  5. Wayne A. Schneider Says:

    Well, I am not surprised that Issa would stoop to this level. He’s the man who had Calif Gov Gray Davis recalled by practically financing the effort himself (millions of his own money).

    What Jerry Nadler said is 100% accurate, and any desperate Bush defender who says otherwise is provably delusional. That would include Issa.


  6. Wilco Says:

    giving the emperor more power to spy without any oversight

    no no no
    The DOJ is responsible for oversight.
    Ok, so you’re actually right. No oversight.


  7. Philo Says:

    test


  8. Mark Says:

    Are you kidding me? Both parties are no different. At least with the GOP, we know what they stand for.

    Say bye bye to the White House…I am voting for Nader.


  9. liberals destroyed america Says:

    bush back hands the sissy liberals once again, further evidence that liberalism is a soft and flawed ideology that cannot be trusted to govern and make tough decisions. a president with 20 something approval ratings just destroyed the democrats.


  10. sdr Says:

    no comment, only sadness


  11. kasinca Says:

    Darrel Issa is a butt licking rethuglican…more concerned with protecting the thugs of the crime family than he is representing the people of his district and the United States of America.


  12. liberals destroyed america Says:

    majority party beaten down and embarassed again, no wonder cindy is running against pelosi!!!!!


  13. Gerald Gibson Says:


    conservatives were more concerned with providing political cover for the White House than passing legislation that addressed national security concerns.

    So were the democrats… this could NEVER have happened without their help.

    They lied to us leading up to November.


  14. RALPH Says:

    THE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!


  15. Candyce Says:

    Issa is one of those sanctimonious bastards I’d just like to slap.


  16. Tess Adams Says:

    I cannot believe this got through while the democrats are in control. I’m losing faith in both parties at the moment.

    http://www.beforeyougopostal.com/ MainForum/ posting.php?mode=post&f=34&sid=46a4af8bcd8e9c74782ca3f95c6466a8


  17. pol Says:

    I’m interested in finding out why Democrats voted for this bill. I will be asking my Senator, Jim Webb.


  18. Wilco Says:

    Because American really wants more years of Bush?
    I will agree with you, actually. I wish the GOP had introduced an appeal to the 22nd. The dems would have picked up even MORE seats.


  19. Gerald Gibson Says:


    THE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!

    Comment by RALPH

    Why? I am sure the democrats will introduce it soon.


  20. RALPH Says:

    Why? I am sure the democrats will introduce it soon.

    IT WAS ONCE NECESSARY TO RATIFY THE 22nd AMENDMENT TO STOP THE DEMS FROM DESTROYING AMERICA!!!!!!

    NOW, IT IS NECESSARY TO REPEAL IT FOR THE SAME REASON!!!!!!!!

    DEMLIB = TERRORIST = DEMLIB!!!


  21. Frank J Says:

    They voted for it because when it comes down to it we want to know what Al Qaeda cells in Europe and Asia and the Middle East that Senator Dick Turban is talking to.


  22. Exley Says:

    “The Bush administration’s NSA wiretapping program has previously been ruled unconstitutional by a federal district court.”

    Actually, ThinkProgress, that decision was overturned by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. Try to keep up.


  23. Wayne A. Schneider Says:

    THE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!

    Comment by RALPH

    You don’t “appeal” a Constitutional Amendment. You repeal it through the only thing that would work, and that’s another Constitutional Amendment. Is all of your knowledge of government and civics this shaky?


  24. Shirley Says:

    And which country has the CIA and FBI contracts to do the wiretapping and spying (according to a 4 part Fox News report aired December 2001 by Carl Cameron)?
    That’s right…Israel.


  25. Spudd Says:

    At this point I can only surmise that the Bush administration has some serious dirt on the leadership of the Democratic party at both the House and Senate levels. He’s probably used the domestic spying to gather information on them and force them to vote as he wishes.

    If that is NOT the case, then the leadership of the Democratic party are TRAITORS to their base and everyone who voted for them. They have bent over and grabbed their ankles on every major vote when it comes to national security. I’m thoroughly disgusted with them.


  26. Shirley Says:

    That’s right folks, the country that has all the WIRETAPPING and SPYING capability ready to go for Georgie Bush is ISRAEL.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5133.htm


  27. Konservo Says:

    Glad you could make over to TP, Ralph!!!


  28. Gerald Gibson Says:


    They voted for it because when it comes down to it we want to know what Al Qaeda cells in Europe and Asia and the Middle East that Senator Dick Turban is talking to.

    Comment by Frank J

    Really? So all those years from 1945-2007 We never heard what Russians were saying?

    BS.


  29. impeachcheneythenbush Says:

    41 or 42 Dems voted in favor of this bill. Anyone have the roll call, so we can identify those people?


  30. Lars Mord Says:

    Find a single political candidate that you can all agree on and get W out.


  31. Kryptik Says:

    Where was the courage?

    Where was the principle?

    Congressional Dems abandoned courage for fear of a man who 26% of the country support and for a boogeyman Trent Lott castigated them for, declaring that DC needed to be evacuated unless they voted EXACTLY HOW BUSH WANTED THEM.

    They abandoned the principles they were elected for, to uphold the Constitution and the liberties it stands for.

    This was a betrayal of country, and furthermore, a betrayal of hope.

    We’ve lost the Republic. Welcome to the United States of George Bush.


  32. NeoCONS 'R' SCUM Says:

    IMPEACH

    first cheney

    then, chimpy.


  33. james k. sayre Says:

    Puke.


  34. William Jefferson Clinton Says:

    Please impeach because I hate being the only modern day President to be impeached and disbarred!


  35. impeachcheneythenbush Says:

    Here’s the roll call. Please note: that if those 41 Dems hadn’t voted in favor of this horrible bill, it would have FAILED to pass. If you identify your own democratic representative, contact them and let them know they’ve sold America down the river.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml


  36. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    test


  37. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    ok, looks like I hit too close to the truth again.

    bye-bye


  38. Larry Flynt Says:

    Poor Jabba the Hut slapped down by that wimp Issa, and who does he remind me of?


  39. Wilco Says:

    Holy mother of crap, only 2 Reps broke ranks?


  40. JTitor Says:

    Again, another reason why I left the democratic party. This has gone past the point of wondering why the democrats would pass a bill that further erodes our constitution and bill of rights? Fu@king wake up people! There is no two party system. Only two names to the same end. Those that have power and those that believe they have power, but are too fu@king stupid to realize that our democracy is dead.


  41. The Eck Says:

    Good evening. Want to cess it up?


  42. Philolaos Says:

    What’s up, The Eck!?!?!


  43. Well, so much for free Says:

    # Congress expands U.S. power to eavesdrop
    # GI gets 110 years in rape, murder of Iraq teen
    # Police name eight missing in bridge collapse
    http://rss.cnn.com/ ~r/ rss/ cnn_topstories/ ~3/ 140739017/ index.html
    http://rss.cnn.com/ ~r/ rss/ cnn_topstories/ ~3/ 140780744/ index.html


  44. Frank J Says:

    BREAKING NEWS: YearlyKos Broken Up By Feds

    YearlyKos has been raided by the feds and its ringleader, Markos Zuniga, has been arrested for treason. Details are sketchy, but apparently no one has been hurt, though 142 traitors have been executed on the spot.

    President Bush has issued this statement: “I cannot tolerate dissent, no matter how mind-numbingly retarded it is. By the way, I’m now dictator for life and I will give a shiny new donkey to whomever delivers me the head of Hillary Clinton.”

    So far, there has been no outcry against this action — at least by anyone who wasn’t later arrested as a traitor. I would would like to remind imy moonbat friends that I fully support and never question our wise government. All hail Leader Bush!


  45. KingCranky Says:

    Cowards

    Unless the Dems impeach Gonzales and zero out ALL Executive Branch funding, this Liberal is NOT voting for the Dem Presidential candidate in 2008

    If the Dems want to tell us libs, yet again, to get lost, when they let legislation come to the floor that they don’t have to, then the Dems can kiss up to some other sucker, preferably those that think W is actually combating, instead of appeasing at every opportunity, Usama bin Laden

    The Dems, caving into W yet again, all their BS claims of “railroaded into voting” notwithstanding, have proven once again that it will always whimper in fear from a massively unpopular and politically isolated President, as opposed to standing with us and our Constitution

    Good job Dems, I hope the other libs give you similar good wishes come the 2008 elections that you’re giving us with this complete act of craven cowardice on the Dems part today


  46. The Eck Says:

    Hey Phil, what’s up buddy? Where’s zooey and the other beautiful Dems of TP?


  47. Zooey Says:

    Comment by Frank J — August 5, 2007 @ 12:33 am

    The RWA troll Dream World.

    Be careful what you wish for….


  48. Wade Boggs Says:

    Eck! What’s up, man?


  49. JTitor Says:

    Hey President I see your in your Stoicism/Neo-Platonian phase.


  50. Marky Says:

    “Step AWAY from the microphone, Rep. Issa” ” WHOOT, WHOOT, WHIRRR”


  51. larry flynt Says:

    Poor Jabba the Hut slapped down by that wimp Issa, and who does he remind me of?


  52. The Eck Says:

    Not much, Wade. Just chillin’. What’s up with you?


  53. MapleStreet Says:

    As I remember it, there was a situation in the last 8 years where a nationally known political candidate’s cell phone conversations were picked up and recorded. As I remember, the candidate was outraged.

    Now we give Shrub/Cheney/Rove (the paragons of election virtue) the power to do so ?

    What gives ?


  54. Philolaos Says:

    JTitor,

    Nah… this is my Pre-Socratic phase… but I can’t stay long or Faiz will be on to me!

    Keep Killin’ Libtards!!


  55. Zooey Says:

    Keep Killin’ Libtards!!
    Comment by Philolaos — August 5, 2007 @ 12:38 am

    It looks as if you’re actually the one under the knife, babes.


  56. Jay Randal Says:

    Since the FISA bill passed, then it means that several Democrats are afraid of Bush, because they are supposed to be the majority party. They act like cowards. Nadler should have told Issa to go stuff it, but instead he allowed a minority party flunky to tell him what to do.

    The entire Congress is brain-dead, since passing the FISA override bill will allow Bush to spy on everyone in the Congress and Dubya’s political opponents like Cindy Sheehan.


  57. The Eck Says:

    Zooey, baby, how are ya?


  58. Zooey Says:

    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:42 am

    Hello, Eck. I’m well, as always. How are you?


  59. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Philolaos — “Keep Killin’ Libtards!!”??? Don’t go there President.


  60. The Eck Says:

    Any better and it’d be a sin. :)

    Where’s Martha..er Egg tonight?


  61. Zooey Says:

    Where’s Martha..er Egg tonight?
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:45 am

    Egg’s been having trouble posting comments, so he’s tkaing a break from TP. It’s not the same without him.


  62. The Eck Says:

    We need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!


  63. Zooey Says:

    We need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:47 am

    That’s pretty ambitious, Eck!


  64. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Jay Randal — “Bush to spy on everyone in the Congress and Dubya’s political opponents like Cindy Sheehan” Yep! Marry this little jewel of legislation with the Jul. 17 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq. We are going to have some real fun in the next year.


  65. The Eck Says:

    Egg’s been having trouble posting comments, so he’s tkaing a break from TP. It’s not the same without him.

    Comment by Zooey

    No cess party tonight, then. You can join me in the hottub if you like.


  66. O. Bigfoot Says:

    The government has done it’s job today, stepping across party lines to protect the people of the United States from a very real enemy. I am happy that the hysterical rantings of those like Rep. Nadler, and those on blogs such as this, are NOT the feelings of the mainstream.

    I see on the roll call that my Representative did vote against the bill, so I will be emailing him and letting him know of my disgust. However, I know it will fall on deaf ears. He consistently loses in the county I live in, but wins the rest of his district. In short, he’s not our Representative.

    Am I elated that this bill passed? No. It would be far better if this bill were not necessary. However, the reality is that the one real function of our national government is to protect the people of the United States. I am happy that regardless of the rhetoric, it would appear that most in congress do actually take their job seriously from time to time.


  67. LibertyLover Says:

    Laws are not retroactive…

    If it is against the law for me to spit on the sidewalk this week and I spit on the sidewalk, then I should have to pay the fine or do the time, right? If Congress then enacts a law saying that it is not illegal to spit on the sidewalk. It doesn’t apply to last week. Except for the President? HE gets his butt covered by a retroactive law? BS.

    Bush broke the law and should be held accountable.


  68. Philolaos Says:

    We need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!

    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:47 am

    ——————-

    It can’t be done. Neo-Stalinists have taken over TP!!!


  69. ronjazz Says:

    And the retarded cons once again cheer on the destruction of the USA by their deserter-in-chief. Now the USA is at the bottom of the list in defending democracy and freedom, becaus the repigs supported traitors in office. Republicans are traitors, now and forever. conservatives are stupid traitors, now and forever. Liberals founded this country, only to have the fearful and ignorant conservatives give it all up. What a shameful thing to do to America. The terrorists have won, through the leadership of Bush-Cheney, the world’s biggest terrorists. There is no war on terror, nor has there ever been one. There is fearmongeriong and mass murder, conducted by the sickest people on the planet, Republicans.


  70. The Eck Says:

    It can’t be done. Neo-Stalinists have taken over TP!!!

    Comment by Philolaos

    Neostals.

    I noticed that a lot of the threads have had weak post counts. I wonder what’s going on at TP?


  71. Zooey Says:

    No cess party tonight, then. You can join me in the hottub if you like.
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:51 am

    I’ll send Egg a note. I’m sure he’d love to join you. :)


  72. Well, so much for free Says:

    T.P. bloggers are giving up.
    no sense in fighting the system.
    the system will destroy itself. along with the freedomfighters.
    what does it matter anymore, bush allready destroyed freedumbs.
    america will go down like all the other great nations before it.


  73. Michelle Malkin hearts Eck Says:

    Hi Eck, I’ve missed you!!!!


  74. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Philolaos — According to Strauss; Neo-Stalanists are in a sense Neo-Conservatives. That means I’m in a NeoCon blog? Zooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?


  75. Dahju Says:

    The Democrats are baffling me on this one. There was no need to provide a bill. Just go recess and go home! Let Bush expain to the American people what is needed and why the urgency. No explanation; no bill. End of discussion!!!!


  76. The Eck Says:

    I’ll send Egg a note. I’m sure he’d love to join you. :)

    Comment by Zooey

    Ew…


  77. The Eck Says:

    Hello Michele. I’m a traditional guy and I know that’s why you “heart” me. ;)


  78. Zooey Says:

    Ew…
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:00 am

    Then he’ll just have to join me!


  79. The Eck Says:

    I just slipped on my body condom.


  80. The Eck Says:

    Then he’ll just have to join me!

    Comment by Zooey

    *unplugs the hot tub*


  81. burro Says:

    This is not about Issa. Issa’s an ass but in this case he was an effective ass because he got what he wanted and got the person in the right to back, back, back down.

    This is the WTF: After some pause, Nadler said he would withdraw his “truthful and accurate statements” in order to proceed with the floor debate.

    Why? Why back down? Why proceed to accommodate bullying in the cause of B.S.? Issa won. Issa got what he wanted and he was wrong. Why is this happening over and over?

    Trolls are a drag but they can say with considerable justification that the Dems just don’t have what it takes to stay in the hot kitchen. Sad as hell but what other conclusion is there?


  82. Well, so much for free Says:

    More top stories
    House OKs wider wiretap powers
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20126385/


  83. Michelle Malkin hearts Eck Says:

    I luv your huge balls!!!


  84. O. Bigfoot Says:

    ronjazz, sorry you have such a poor opinion of your country, your government, and your fellow citizens. You are the one who should be ashamed. Your claim that there is no war on terror and that Bush and Cheney are “the world’s biggest terrorists”, are the words of someone who is at best delusional, or at worst a traitor himself.

    While folks like you are busy lamenting some fictitious political destruction of the United States, the rest of us are enjoying the Land of the Free, and The Home of the Brave, happy that our government can act in a bi-partisan manner and get things done when necessary.

    Thanks go out to the 40 or so Democrats who supported this bill! Thank you for putting the United States first! We could not have done it without you.


  85. Michelle Malkin hearts Eck Says:

    I just slipped on my body condom.

    Comment by The Eck

    You are going to need it when you wax the floor with me!


  86. Zooey Says:

    Then he’ll just have to join me!
    Comment by Zooey

    *unplugs the hot tub*
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:04 am

    Dude, a hot tub is just a hot tub. Have a little confidence in your sexuality. :D


  87. Jay Randal Says:

    burro > notice that Rep. Pelosi did nothing to defend Nadler, nor did she tell those 41 traitorous Dems who voted for the FISA bill that she would punish them. She covered her butt voting no, but did nothing to keep the Democrats together to defeat it.


  88. The Eck Says:

    Dude, a hot tub is just a hot tub. Have a little confidence in your sexuality. :D

    Comment by Zooey

    I don’t feel comfortable sitting in a hot tub nude with Egg.


  89. Zooey Says:

    I don’t feel comfortable sitting in a hot tub nude with Egg.
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:09 am

    I wouldn’t either. I’d be wearing a swimsuit.

    Sheesh, Eck….Egg’s gonna think you’re coming on to him.


  90. JTitor Says:

    Comment by O. Bigfoot — Without googling this one. Who said: “Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.”


  91. The Eck Says:

    I wouldn’t either. I’d be wearing a swimsuit.

    Sheesh, Eck….Egg’s gonna think you’re coming on to him.

    Comment by Zooey

    I better put some clothes on then…


  92. Zooey Says:

    I better put some clothes on then…
    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:12 am

    I think we’d all appreciate that. :D


  93. JTitor Says:

    Zooey, Eck get a hotel room.


  94. The Eck Says:

    You are going to need it when you wax the floor with me!

    Comment by Michelle Malkin hearts Eck

    Well, ok, but I am very tired.


  95. Zooey Says:

    Zooey, Eck get a hotel room.
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:14 am

    Ew.


  96. Well, so much for free Says:

    Updated: 2 hours, 37 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday, voting to expand the government’s abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States.

    The 227-183 vote,


  97. Wade Boggs Says:

    Eck, you are my hero.


  98. JTitor Says:

    :O


  99. deserves neither liberty nor safety.” Says:

    Democrats concede to Bush administration on warrantless surveillance


  100. The Eck Says:

    Zooey, Eck get a hotel room.

    Comment by JTitor

    I wouldn’t mind dinner and a movie.


  101. The Eck Says:

    Eck, you are my hero.

    Comment by Wade Boggs

    Thanks, man. That means a lot.


  102. Philolaos Says:

    “Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.”

    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:11 am

    bf


  103. Philolaos Says:

    Comment by Philolaos — According to Strauss; Neo-Stalanists are in a sense Neo-Conservatives. That means I’m in a NeoCon blog? Zooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?

    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 12:59 am

    yup. that’s right!


  104. The Eck Says:

    Phil, we got 100 posts. Only 900 more!


  105. Zooey Says:

    Zooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 12:59 am

    What makes you think that!?


  106. Kilo Says:

    What Jerry Nadler said is 100% accurate, and any desperate Bush defender who says otherwise is provably delusional. That would include Issa.

    Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 4, 2007 @ 11:23 pm

    So he’s delusional and your guy is a massive pussy. The bill passed. This Republican is gonna be okay with that.
    Meanwhile what do you want this Democrat to tell you ?

    That he had to withdraw his statements so that instead of the bill passing it could pass with less criticism ? So that he didn’t hold up debate on a bill he was voting against ?

    How about what party that clear majority passing the bill came from if the only purpose was to give Bush a pass on his illegal activities ?

    Why bother pretending you give a shit at all if you can’t make it even the slightest bit convincing.

    You just got sold out by your party and you’re calling a Republican names about something unrelated. You go girl.


  107. O. Bigfoot Says:

    “Comment by O. Bigfoot — Without googling this one. Who said: “Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.”

    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:11 am”

    I believe it was Ben Franklin who said it something like this: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?”


  108. The Eck Says:

    “WASHINGTON - The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday”

    It’s about damn time he got a victory on something.


  109. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Dildolaos — Twilight Zone moment. Zooey’s a neocon? Hows the classes going?


  110. The true blue vet Says:

    Everyone has to see the trailer for the new movie “Rendition”. This will be a bit of an eye opener.

    P.S. Hey Zooey I’am the daytime michael.


  111. Zooey Says:

    P.S. Hey Zooey I’am the daytime michael.
    Comment by The true blue vet — August 5, 2007 @ 1:32 am

    Heh. You changed your name quick. :D


  112. Konservo Says:

    test—-


  113. The Eck Says:

    “Everyone has to see the trailer for the new movie “Rendition”.”

    Got a link to it? Is it another George Clooney movie?


  114. Zooey Says:

    Twilight Zone moment. Zooey’s a neocon? Hows the classes going?
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:32 am

    I’m no damn neocon! Mr Pee’s an idiot.

    Classes start 8/20 — can’t wait!

    Where did you go off to, JTitor?


  115. Zooey Says:

    test—-
    Comment by Konservo — August 5, 2007 @ 1:35 am

    It’s YOU, not the name!!!!

    Heh.


  116. JTitor Says:

    Comment by O. Bigfoot — Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?”

    Hmmm lets see…ummmmm….hmmmm. I have the answer!!! The answer is I don’t give a shit who said it, because whomever said it democrat or republican doesn’t understand the constitution.


  117. Jay Randal Says:

    I am checking the names of the 41 Democrats who voted to help Bush spy on us. One is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus: Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama. He has blown himself to bits in next year’s election.


  118. The Eck Says:

    Somebody email Egg and tell him to get his ass on here!


  119. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Zooey — Hey Zoo. Busy. Moving daughter from New York to LA.


  120. Jay Randal Says:

    I just have a list of names, not the districts or states for the Reps who voted to help Bush. Davis I was able to pick out of the bunch so far.


  121. The Eck Says:

    JTitor, wouldn’t Zooey and I make a nice couple?


  122. Marcus Aruelius Says:

    If we can’t use inspiration to motivate our leaders(?), we should probably try fear.


  123. Keith H. Says:

    In case anyone hasn’t recognized it yet . . . .

    These are not opposing parties .

    They are in bed together, plain as day, the rest is just for show . . .

    and money.


  124. The Eck Says:

    You have to give Bush credit. It doesn’t matter if he has a Democrat or Republican congress, he gets what he wants.


  125. Zooey Says:

    Hey Zoo. Busy. Moving daughter from New York to LA.
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:40 am

    Wow. That’s a big move. I hope she likes it down there. :)


  126. JTitor Says:

    Comment by The Eck — Match made in heaven, or well TP at least?


  127. Marcus Aruelius Says:

    I think the dems think that they will be perceived as tough by voting with the thugs on anti-terrorism bills (in the manufactured climate of fear created and willingly swallowed by far too many Americans). It’ll never happen. The only way to show toughness is to stand up to to the thugs themselves (after all, they’re all draft-dodging pussies - one good punch to the political snotbox will shut them up, but good).


  128. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Zooey — She’s moving back to the west coast. NY too cold for the socal girl.


  129. Marcus Aruelius Says:

    You have to give Bush credit. It doesn’t matter if he has a Democrat or Republican congress, he gets what he wants.

    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:44 am

    So did John Gotti - for a while.


  130. The Eck Says:

    If Americans voted for change in ‘06, what exactly have they changed? It seems like all the same ‘ol to me.


  131. Zooey Says:

    Match made in heaven, or well TP at least?
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:45 am

    No, that is not happening. :P


  132. Marcus Aruelius Says:

    If Americans voted for change in ‘06, what exactly have they changed? It seems like all the same ‘ol to me.

    Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:48 am

    And since that time, the rethugs support has dwindled. The coming elections are the democrat’s to loose. Looks like they’re trying as hard as they can.


  133. Zooey Says:

    She’s moving back to the west coast. NY too cold for the socal girl.
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:47 am

    Oh — so she’ll love it!


  134. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Zooey — Yes. She lives in Hollywood now. More her style.


  135. The Eck Says:

    The coming elections are the democrat’s to loose. Looks like they’re trying as hard as they can.

    Comment by Marcus Aruelius

    They are working overtime at it. They just handed Bush a huge victory.

    I know there are a lot of people out there like me who believe in limited goverment, low taxes and a strong national defense. If the Repubs run on those issues, they will do fine.


  136. Zooey Says:

    Yes. She lives in Hollywood now. More her style.
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:57 am

    Cool. Good for her. :)


  137. JTitor Says:

    Comment by O. Bigfoot — And when the Democrats take the presidency in 08 you won’t be yelling to have all this repealed? Right. I hear that the Rush Limpdick blog believes your line of shit. Why don’t you go hang out there P.


  138. The Eck Says:

    Goodnight everybody.


  139. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Zooey — Shes not 3000 miles away anymore. Yeah!


  140. Zooey Says:

    Goodnight, Eck. I’ll tell Egg you were asking after him. :)


  141. Zooey Says:

    Shes not 3000 miles away anymore. Yeah!
    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 2:01 am

    Parents are funny that way. :)

    My parents said I can’t move out of Idaho, but that’s what I’m planning on doing when I’m done with school. My sister will still be here!


  142. JTitor Says:

    Yep. I’m taking off too. Zooey, Eck, P, …(Sounds like the Mork & Mindy blog). Have a good night! Bigfoot go fu@k yourself and sleep tight!


  143. Buck Fush Says:

    Well seems how I don’t visit or post here anymore cause of people responding to trolls, this is a big, “I told you so.” and time to move to another country. Good luck with your stupid, stinking trolls, I am not dealing with it anymore.


  144. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Zooey — Just do it! Talk to you tomorrow.


  145. Zooey Says:

    Heh. Goodnight, JTitor.

    I’m outta here too.

    Bigfoot, go swim in the cesspool!


  146. JTitor Says:

    Comment by Buck Fush — Sweet dreams!


  147. JTitor Says:

    Thanks Zoo.


  148. Jay Randal Says:

    TP has prevented 2 of my posts trying to list the 41 traitor Democrats.


  149. Jay Randal Says:

    I give up trying to list them > TP seems to have a time-out filter to delete the post, then it drops your name and e-mail addy out of the boxes.


  150. Jay Randal Says:

    I have 38 of the 41 names so far.


  151. Jay Randal Says:

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml

    Try that link to get the list. You have to pick the Democrat names out of the YEAS list > names in roman script.


  152. Jay Randal Says:

    First Democrat on the list is Altmire.


  153. Jay Randal Says:

    Rep. Jason Altmire (D) was just elected in 2006. He represents 4th Congressional District of Pennsylvania and has decided to be a one term fool by voting to help Bush.


  154. Jay Randal Says:

    Rep. John Barrow is in his 2nd term and represents Georgia’s 12th District. He is a bluedog dunce.


  155. Jay Randal Says:

    Rep. Melissa Bean is in her 2nd term and represents Illinois 8th District. She forgot she is a Democrat apparently and desires to be a GOPer.


  156. Common Sense Rules Says:

    What sort of leverage do the Dems think they have now after THIS? How could they do this to America? It goes without saying that the Repub Party is full of liars and idiots. However, I’m extremely disappointed by this news. It looks to like the Dems have lost a lot of ground on their campaign to bring dignity and integrity back to Amreica. They’ve become “Enablers” to “The Liars Club.” Such a sad, sad week.


  157. Jay Randal Says:

    Rep. Dan Boren is in his 2nd term and represents Oklahoma’s 2nd District. He is very young, so Pelosi should have told him never to help Dubya.


  158. Jay Randal Says:

    Oh boy Rep. Leonard Boswell was first elected to Congress in 1969. He is an old fossil that represents Iowa’s 3rd District. He knew better than to help Bush or he is senile.


  159. Jay Randal Says:

    Rep Alan Boyd was first elected to Congress in 1997. He represents Florida’s 2nd District. He claims to be a proud leader of the Blue Dog Democrats.

    It was the Blue Dogs who have betrayed us and some old fools too.


  160. Dahju Says:

    The issue is the Blue Dog Dems. Got to develop way to influence them. They run scared of conservative districts. We have to come up with a way to make them more responsive to Demo agenda.


  161. Bruce Gorton Says:

    Comment by Spudd — August 4, 2007 @ 11:51 pm

    If they voted yea based on blackmail are STILL traitors. Motives don’t play into it. You can betray your country because you were bribed, blackmailed, or just because you just felt like it, you are still a traitor.

    The Democrats with this vote have demonstrated once and for all that they are scumbags who should be stripped of office, and what is more, they have demonstrated once and for all why the next president should not be a Democrat - the Democrats want to do the exact same things as Bush when they get into power.

    It is the only argument for why they voted to give Bush yet more power without any oversight. Hillary, the next Democrat candidate if the official polls are right, is going to be GW Bush 2.

    Vote independent, take the risk because you know damn well by this vote that by voting Democrat you may as well vote Republican.


  162. Jay Randal Says:

    One more brief bio of a member of the traitor 41 group: Rep. Brian Higgins who is in his 2nd term. He represents New York’s 27th District. On his website he has a pic of himself with Nancy Pelosi his mentor. Nancy did not even try to get Democrats to vote as a group to reject the FISA bill.


  163. Jay Randal Says:

    I did not mean to kill this thread, but sometimes truth hurts. 41 House Democrats betrayed our entire nation. I wonder if they got their 30 pieces of silver like Judas?


  164. King George the Dumber Says:

    It’s now official. The terrorists have won. Time to bring the troops home.


  165. King George the Dumber Says:

    In 2008 I will vote for Cindy Sheehan and Ralph Nader. Screw you, Democrats.

    Good ahead and gloat, you f**king traitorous Republicans.


  166. Merlin Says:

    #36 Comment by burro — August 5, 2007 @ 1:04 am

    Trolls are a drag but they can say with considerable justification that the Dems just don’t have what it takes to stay in the hot kitchen. Sad as hell but what other conclusion is there?

    Look at who actually voted and who they represent. They are mostly Blue Dog Democrats. They don’t represent the Progressive Democratic Party. These Representatives seek to find bipartisan solutions. They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.


  167. Merlin Says:

    Here is the link to the Blue Dogs on Kos.


  168. Merlins DAD Says:

    They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.

    Comment by Merlin

    The neo-cons are not conservative, but use conservatism. Capitalism is and will always be liberal. Freedom is liberal and freedom is free markets, freedom is what drives Capitalism. Sexy Ads, Sexy shows, sexy garments.

    I dare you to define capitalism as some kind of theological state. YOU cannot do it. Conservatism means liberalism.


  169. Merlins DAD Says:

    They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.

    Comment by Merlin

    LMAO how can a free market be conservative? It can’t!!

    IDIOT. Liberals own you. And always will.


  170. Martin Gifford Says:

    Here’s a nice Glenn Greenwald quote on this:

    Democrats’ responsibility for Bush radicalism

    It is staggering, and truly disgusting, that even in August, 2007 — almost six years removed from the 9/11 attacks and with the Bush presidency cemented as one of the weakest and most despised in American history — that George W. Bush can “demand” that the Congress jump and re-write legislation at his will, vesting in him still greater surveillance power, by warning them, based solely on his say-so, that if they fail to comply with his demands, the next Terrorist attack will be their fault. And they jump and scamper and comply…

    Examine virtually every Bush scandal and it increasingly bears the mark not merely of Democratic capitulation, but Democratic participation. In August of 2006, the Supreme Court finally asserted the first real limit on Bush’s radical executive power theories in Hamdan, only for Congress, months later, to completely eviscerate those minimal limits — and then go far beyond — by enacting the grotesque Military Commissions Act with the support of substantial numbers of Democrats. What began as a covert and illegal Bush interrogation and detention program became the officially sanctioned, bipartisan policy of the United States.

    http://www.salon.com/ opinion/ greenwald/ ?last_story=/ opinion/ greenwald/ 2007/ 08/ 04/ democrats/

    I’m Australian, but I’m worrying about what’s going on in America. It’s become so reactionary and cowardly (apart from the soldiers). It’s like there’s no backbone there. And it’s happening in Australia. Just say the word “terrorism”, and everyone begs for the government to take more control and the opposition party just agrees with the government for fear of being labelled “soft on terrorism”.

    Terrorism is a big political and media beatup. Taking a big picture long-term view, even terrorists dropping a few nukes, wouldn’t be important.

    It’s time for someone to take leadership and spread a positive, constructive outlook. Screw the terrorists! We should just do solid intelligent police work, and get on with positive, constructive living. Letting terrorists change our liberties is insane.


  171. Merlins DAD Says:

    Good ahead and gloat, you f**king traitorous Republicans.

    Comment by King George the Dumber

    Their is nothing for them to gloat over!!

    Bwahahahah


  172. Bruce Gorton Says:

    Merlins DAD

    Shouldn’t you call yourself Taliesan? Anyway;

    Conservative doesn’t actually mean theocracy. Neocons have twisted it into being that (In actual fact neocons are a third political alignment entirely) but conservatism proper means maintaining the status quo, which in a free market economy means maintaining a free market even when that market is detrimental to everyone.

    Liberalism on the other hand means not so much a free market as a philosophy of maximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others. Hence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals) but not permissable to legislate against gay marriage (Because, if your neighbourhood has a gay couple getting married in it, it doesn’t effect you in any measurable way.)


  173. Merlins DAD Says:

    Perhaps you meant Talisman Bruce?

    No, I dont do/create talisman.

    Conservative doesn’t actually mean theocracy. Neocons have twisted it into being that -BG

    Such was my point =).

    Liberalism on the other hand means not so much a free market as a philosophy of maximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others.

    In effect, profit. $$ as long as you don’t break a law its okay to exploit human desires. (pornography etc) Desires include money. =)

    Hence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals) And this is against conservatism?


  174. Merlins DAD Says:

    Hence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals)

    I am a conservative and uphold life! Except when profits supercede life.


  175. Merlins DAD Says:

    maximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others. -BG

    Exploitation harms others.

    How can you/one harm one minimally? Its okay to harm?


  176. Bruce Gorton Says:

    Merlins DAD

    Perhaps you meant Talisman Bruce?

    No, I mean Taliesan. Father of Merlin if you take the pagan side of the Arthurian myth.

    I mean, I suppose you could call yourself Satan, if you are going to take the Christian version, but I seriously don’t think you want to go that route.

    As to whether liberalism opposes conservatism? A long standing myth. The two might be different, but they aren’t always opposing concepts. The opposition traditional to the two movements is more out of the fact that liberalism as a biproduct of its aims pushes for change, while conservatism aims to do the reverse.

    As to pornography? So long as everyone involved is a consenting adult I, as a liberal, have no problems with it.


  177. Bruce Gorton Says:

    How can you/one harm one minimally? Its okay to harm?

    Comment by Merlins DAD — August 5, 2007 @ 5:50 am

    Frequently, yes it is okay. You step on my toe accidentally, it causes me harm. It is okay because it was accidental.

    A person goes into surgery, to save their life they have to be cut open. This causes them harm, but not as much harm as leaving them to die would. It is okay because the harm caused is intended to avoid greater harm being done if you did nothing.

    A criminal tries to kill you, you succeed in defending yourself and killing the criminal. This causes harm, but is okay because while that criminal was trying to actively reduce your lifespan, you were simply defending yourself.

    The liberal ideal is a balance between freedom and protecting that freedom. A middle way if you prefer Chinese philosophy.


  178. funky p Says:

    Relating to the new surveillance legislation, I found this article with some of the back story (or propaganda if you’re a skeptic) on the problem with FISA and why it needed amending. I believe nothing until I can somehow verify through another channel, but this has believeability. (I still don’t trust them)

    http://www.iht.com/ articles/ ap/ 2007/ 08/ 03/ america/ NA-GEN-US-Intelligence-Powers.php


  179. Kay Says:

    I reject all Republicans and Democrats who voted for this.
    I reject all Republicans and Democrats running for President in 2008.

    Anyone want to join me in The American Revolution II?


  180. O. Bigfoot Says:

    “Look at who actually voted and who they represent. They are mostly Blue Dog Democrats. They don’t represent the Progressive Democratic Party. These Representatives seek to find bipartisan solutions. They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.

    Comment by Merlin — August 5, 2007 @ 4:11 am”

    And the Progressive Democratic Party doesn’t represent the people of the United States at large, only the far-left fringe. The United States is still a conservative country by an large. Many of the Democrats who were elected to congress last year were elected on platforms more conservative than the Republicans they defeated.

    Sorry to break it to you folks, but conservatism will win every time. Only when the Republicans got drunk with their power and failed to uphold the conservative values they promised to stand for did they lose their majority. Pork barrel spending, waffling on social issues, no clear cut strategy to win in Iraq, failure to act on previously passed measures to secure our open borders, all contributed to the Republican loss.

    Those of you who think Democrats have sealed their defeat by voting for the Protect America Act are all wrong. The American public overwhelmingly supports spying on terrorists. And the Protect America Act legalizes spying on terrorists. This isn’t even a huge issue to most Americans.

    All of the ranting about the destruction of the Constitution doesn’t resonate with the American people. Why? Here’s the major reason:

    “Comment by O. Bigfoot — Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?”

    Hmmm lets see…ummmmm….hmmmm. I have the answer!!! The answer is I don’t give a shit who said it, because whomever said it democrat or republican doesn’t understand the constitution.

    Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:38 am”

    As usual, heavy on the rhetoric, light on the facts. All sorts of ethereal talk about how the Constitution has been compromised, and if we don’t all agree, then we simply don’t understand the Constitution. But no one can come up with any specifics on exactly HOW the Constitution has been compromised. Why? Because in reality it hasn’t been compromised at all.

    No one is losing any freedoms, no one will know the difference. Average Americans will go to work on Monday, go home after work, play with the kids, go to the park, the lake, the bar, the sports game, watch NASCAR on TV, whatever, and nothing will change from last week, before the Protect America Act was passed.

    The only difference is that the government now will not have to go through the political wrangling necessary to listen in on electronic communications from outside the country that they have been listening in to all along. The issue is settled, for now, and we won’t have to continue to broadcast our surveillance efforts to the world anymore.


  181. foolme1ns Says:

    I hate the god damned democrats!!!! Weak kneed, lily livered, impotent, incompetent, petrified, god damned cowards!!!! Give me a hundred evil greedy horrible republicans rather than one lying, double crossing, capitulating, prevaricating, belly crawling dog of a democrat.

    At least I know what I am up against with the republicans. The democrats are betrayers of the worst kind.

    God, I hate the democrats.


  182. Bruce Gorton Says:

    O. Bigfoot

    Never say anything you are not absolutely sure of.

    As a matter of fact we CAN point out how the US constitution has been violated quite easily.

    Amendments IV, VI and VIII

    Oh, and this bit in XIV:

    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Note how it says any person, rather then citizen.


  183. Troll Says:

    “Vote independent,….”

    Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 3:07 am

    Here Here!!

    Bruce,
    I’ve been trying to warn you TP toadys for some time now that you are backing the wrong horse in siding with these dems. But because you lack forsight you continue to think that a strong federal gov is not a threat to liberty.

    “We’re hugely disappointed with the Democrats,” said Caroline Fredrickson, legislative director for the American Civil Liberties Union.

    We are truly being led down a road to facsism and most republicans are peed off also because their politicians have betrayed them as well. We must elect people devoted to restricting the power of the federal gov.

    You cant have your cake and eat it too. The “progressives” have an agenda of increasing the size and power of the fed gov. This is what you get when you elect them.

    Less federal gov = more liberty.

    Starve the beast. It must be done soon or there will be no turning back.


  184. Nat Says:

    “CHENEY/TANCREDO 2008!!!

    God Bless America!!!
    Comment by Philolaos — August 4, 2007 @ 11:12 pm”

    God forgive America if this happens.


  185. Bruce Gorton Says:

    Nat

    If there is a god, and that happens, what the heck makes you think he is on America’s side?


  186. Nat Says:

    “If there is a god, and that happens, what the heck makes you think he is on America’s side?
    Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 7:48 am”

    That’s a good question considering everyone who believes in God thinks he is on their side. I don’t know whose side he’s on or if he has even picked a side.


  187. waydot Says:

    It just keeps getting darker, doesn’t it? We think we saw some light at the end of the tunnel, when we, the people, made our voices heard in the election of 2006. Yet things still keep going from bad to worse, and there are precious few true heroes out there.
    I am curious to know how the NEWLY elected Democrats voted on this mater, and are THEY at least hearing this country’s cry for change? Must we change every last one of them?
    Oh, and for th