During Politicized FISA Debate, Nadler Forced To Withdraw ‘Truthful And Accurate Statement’ That Bush Broke The Law
During Politicized FISA Debate, Nadler Forced To Withdraw ‘Truthful And Accurate Statement’ That Bush Broke The Law
Yesterday, under heavy political pressure from the White House, the Senate approved a bill that provided expansive spying authority for the Bush administration. The White House had earlier rejected a compromise bill that provided powers sought by the Director of National Intelligence, opting instead to play politics with the issue.
Moments ago, the House passed the White House-backed Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) bill by a 227-183 vote.
During the heated House floor debate over the legislation, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) said the White House-backed FISA legislation was nothing more than a political ploy:
This bill is what Karl Rove and his political operatives in the White House have decided they need to win elections. That’s not national security. That’s political warfare.
I do not believe we will soon be able to undo this damage. Rights given away are not easily regained. This bill is not needed to protect America from terrorists. The only purpose of this bill is to protect this administration from its own political problems and cynicism, and its own illegal actions it has taken outside the law without any authorization.
In a symbolic move that reflected the efforts by many conservatives to politicize the FISA debate, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) immediately rose and asked that Nadler withdraw his statement that the Bush administration had conducted illegal activities.
After some pause, Nadler said he would withdraw his “truthful and accurate statements” in order to proceed with the floor debate. Issa, unhappy with Nadler’s retraction, said, “He is not withdrawing it if he claims they’re accurate.” Nadler responded, “I’m withdrawing them without any reservation but I retain my opinion.” Watch it:
Issa’s comments reflected the nature of the FISA debate — conservatives were more concerned with providing political cover for the White House than passing legislation that addressed national security concerns.
Nadler’s comments are hardly inaccurate. The current FISA debate was precipitated by the fact that a court had ruled the administration’s spying actions were outside the law. Just this week, Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) revealed a secret court ruling that found “a key element of the Bush administration’s wiretapping efforts illegal.”
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CHENEY/TANCREDO 2008!!!
God Bless America!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 11:12 pmthe house should be ashamed of itself. giving the emperor more power to spy without any oversight, simply so they can go on vacation.
shame.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pmNadler is absolutely correct.
I wish he wasn’t so polite….
August 4th, 2007 at 11:20 pmI don’t know why I voted for the Democrats these past elections, but I can guarantee it won’t happen again. If a vote for third party is a vote for republicans, as they say, so be it. The Democrats aren’t any better anymore.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:21 pmI do not understand what the dems are afraid of — the people are behind them – yet they keel over every time.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:21 pmThey disgust me.
Well, I am not surprised that Issa would stoop to this level. He’s the man who had Calif Gov Gray Davis recalled by practically financing the effort himself (millions of his own money).
What Jerry Nadler said is 100% accurate, and any desperate Bush defender who says otherwise is provably delusional. That would include Issa.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:23 pmgiving the emperor more power to spy without any oversight
no no no
August 4th, 2007 at 11:24 pmThe DOJ is responsible for oversight.
Ok, so you’re actually right. No oversight.
test
August 4th, 2007 at 11:26 pmAre you kidding me? Both parties are no different. At least with the GOP, we know what they stand for.
Say bye bye to the White House…I am voting for Nader.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:30 pmbush back hands the sissy liberals once again, further evidence that liberalism is a soft and flawed ideology that cannot be trusted to govern and make tough decisions. a president with 20 something approval ratings just destroyed the democrats.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:33 pmno comment, only sadness
August 4th, 2007 at 11:35 pmDarrel Issa is a butt licking rethuglican…more concerned with protecting the thugs of the crime family than he is representing the people of his district and the United States of America.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:36 pmmajority party beaten down and embarassed again, no wonder cindy is running against pelosi!!!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 11:37 pmconservatives were more concerned with providing political cover for the White House than passing legislation that addressed national security concerns.
So were the democrats… this could NEVER have happened without their help.
They lied to us leading up to November.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:38 pmTHE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 11:40 pmIssa is one of those sanctimonious bastards I’d just like to slap.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:40 pmI cannot believe this got through while the democrats are in control. I’m losing faith in both parties at the moment.
http://www.beforeyougopostal.com/MainForum/posting.php?mode=post&f=34&sid=46a4af8bcd8e9c74782ca3f95c6466a8
August 4th, 2007 at 11:42 pmI’m interested in finding out why Democrats voted for this bill. I will be asking my Senator, Jim Webb.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:42 pmBecause American really wants more years of Bush?
August 4th, 2007 at 11:43 pmI will agree with you, actually. I wish the GOP had introduced an appeal to the 22nd. The dems would have picked up even MORE seats.
THE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!
Comment by RALPH
Why? I am sure the democrats will introduce it soon.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:44 pmWhy? I am sure the democrats will introduce it soon.
IT WAS ONCE NECESSARY TO RATIFY THE 22nd AMENDMENT TO STOP THE DEMS FROM DESTROYING AMERICA!!!!!!
NOW, IT IS NECESSARY TO REPEAL IT FOR THE SAME REASON!!!!!!!!
DEMLIB = TERRORIST = DEMLIB!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 11:47 pmThey voted for it because when it comes down to it we want to know what Al Qaeda cells in Europe and Asia and the Middle East that Senator Dick Turban is talking to.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:47 pm“The Bush administration’s NSA wiretapping program has previously been ruled unconstitutional by a federal district court.”
Actually, ThinkProgress, that decision was overturned by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. Try to keep up.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:48 pmTHE GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS MADE A BIG MISTAKE OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS IN FAILING TO INTRODUCE AN APPEAL OF THE 22nd AMENDMENT!!!!!
Comment by RALPH
You don’t “appeal” a Constitutional Amendment. You repeal it through the only thing that would work, and that’s another Constitutional Amendment. Is all of your knowledge of government and civics this shaky?
August 4th, 2007 at 11:49 pmAnd which country has the CIA and FBI contracts to do the wiretapping and spying (according to a 4 part Fox News report aired December 2001 by Carl Cameron)?
August 4th, 2007 at 11:50 pmThat’s right…Israel.
At this point I can only surmise that the Bush administration has some serious dirt on the leadership of the Democratic party at both the House and Senate levels. He’s probably used the domestic spying to gather information on them and force them to vote as he wishes.
If that is NOT the case, then the leadership of the Democratic party are TRAITORS to their base and everyone who voted for them. They have bent over and grabbed their ankles on every major vote when it comes to national security. I’m thoroughly disgusted with them.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:51 pmThat’s right folks, the country that has all the WIRETAPPING and SPYING capability ready to go for Georgie Bush is ISRAEL.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:53 pmhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5133.htm
Glad you could make over to TP, Ralph!!!
August 4th, 2007 at 11:53 pmThey voted for it because when it comes down to it we want to know what Al Qaeda cells in Europe and Asia and the Middle East that Senator Dick Turban is talking to.
Comment by Frank J
Really? So all those years from 1945-2007 We never heard what Russians were saying?
BS.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:54 pm41 or 42 Dems voted in favor of this bill. Anyone have the roll call, so we can identify those people?
August 4th, 2007 at 11:54 pmFind a single political candidate that you can all agree on and get W out.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:55 pmWhere was the courage?
Where was the principle?
Congressional Dems abandoned courage for fear of a man who 26% of the country support and for a boogeyman Trent Lott castigated them for, declaring that DC needed to be evacuated unless they voted EXACTLY HOW BUSH WANTED THEM.
They abandoned the principles they were elected for, to uphold the Constitution and the liberties it stands for.
This was a betrayal of country, and furthermore, a betrayal of hope.
We’ve lost the Republic. Welcome to the United States of George Bush.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:59 pmIMPEACH
first cheney
then, chimpy.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:59 pmPuke.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:03 amPlease impeach because I hate being the only modern day President to be impeached and disbarred!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:05 amHere’s the roll call. Please note: that if those 41 Dems hadn’t voted in favor of this horrible bill, it would have FAILED to pass. If you identify your own democratic representative, contact them and let them know they’ve sold America down the river.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
August 5th, 2007 at 12:05 amtest
August 5th, 2007 at 12:13 amok, looks like I hit too close to the truth again.
bye-bye
August 5th, 2007 at 12:14 amPoor Jabba the Hut slapped down by that wimp Issa, and who does he remind me of?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:14 amHoly mother of crap, only 2 Reps broke ranks?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:19 amAgain, another reason why I left the democratic party. This has gone past the point of wondering why the democrats would pass a bill that further erodes our constitution and bill of rights? Fu@king wake up people! There is no two party system. Only two names to the same end. Those that have power and those that believe they have power, but are too fu@king stupid to realize that our democracy is dead.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:21 amGood evening. Want to cess it up?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:26 amWhat’s up, The Eck!?!?!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:28 am# Congress expands U.S. power to eavesdrop
August 5th, 2007 at 12:29 am# GI gets 110 years in rape, murder of Iraq teen
# Police name eight missing in bridge collapse
http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/140739017/index.html
http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/140780744/index.html
BREAKING NEWS: YearlyKos Broken Up By Feds
YearlyKos has been raided by the feds and its ringleader, Markos Zuniga, has been arrested for treason. Details are sketchy, but apparently no one has been hurt, though 142 traitors have been executed on the spot.
President Bush has issued this statement: “I cannot tolerate dissent, no matter how mind-numbingly retarded it is. By the way, I’m now dictator for life and I will give a shiny new donkey to whomever delivers me the head of Hillary Clinton.”
So far, there has been no outcry against this action — at least by anyone who wasn’t later arrested as a traitor. I would would like to remind imy moonbat friends that I fully support and never question our wise government. All hail Leader Bush!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:33 amCowards
Unless the Dems impeach Gonzales and zero out ALL Executive Branch funding, this Liberal is NOT voting for the Dem Presidential candidate in 2008
If the Dems want to tell us libs, yet again, to get lost, when they let legislation come to the floor that they don’t have to, then the Dems can kiss up to some other sucker, preferably those that think W is actually combating, instead of appeasing at every opportunity, Usama bin Laden
The Dems, caving into W yet again, all their BS claims of “railroaded into voting” notwithstanding, have proven once again that it will always whimper in fear from a massively unpopular and politically isolated President, as opposed to standing with us and our Constitution
Good job Dems, I hope the other libs give you similar good wishes come the 2008 elections that you’re giving us with this complete act of craven cowardice on the Dems part today
August 5th, 2007 at 12:34 amHey Phil, what’s up buddy? Where’s zooey and the other beautiful Dems of TP?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:35 amComment by Frank J — August 5, 2007 @ 12:33 am
The RWA troll Dream World.
Be careful what you wish for….
August 5th, 2007 at 12:35 amEck! What’s up, man?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:36 amHey President I see your in your Stoicism/Neo-Platonian phase.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:36 am“Step AWAY from the microphone, Rep. Issa” ” WHOOT, WHOOT, WHIRRR”
August 5th, 2007 at 12:37 amPoor Jabba the Hut slapped down by that wimp Issa, and who does he remind me of?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:37 amNot much, Wade. Just chillin’. What’s up with you?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:37 amAs I remember it, there was a situation in the last 8 years where a nationally known political candidate’s cell phone conversations were picked up and recorded. As I remember, the candidate was outraged.
Now we give Shrub/Cheney/Rove (the paragons of election virtue) the power to do so ?
What gives ?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:38 amJTitor,
Nah… this is my Pre-Socratic phase… but I can’t stay long or Faiz will be on to me!
Keep Killin’ Libtards!!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:38 amKeep Killin’ Libtards!!
Comment by Philolaos — August 5, 2007 @ 12:38 am
It looks as if you’re actually the one under the knife, babes.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:40 amSince the FISA bill passed, then it means that several Democrats are afraid of Bush, because they are supposed to be the majority party. They act like cowards. Nadler should have told Issa to go stuff it, but instead he allowed a minority party flunky to tell him what to do.
The entire Congress is brain-dead, since passing the FISA override bill will allow Bush to spy on everyone in the Congress and Dubya’s political opponents like Cindy Sheehan.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:41 amZooey, baby, how are ya?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:42 amComment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:42 am
Hello, Eck. I’m well, as always. How are you?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:43 amComment by Philolaos — “Keep Killin’ Libtards!!”??? Don’t go there President.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:44 amAny better and it’d be a sin. :)
Where’s Martha..er Egg tonight?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:45 amWhere’s Martha..er Egg tonight?
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:45 am
Egg’s been having trouble posting comments, so he’s tkaing a break from TP. It’s not the same without him.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:47 amWe need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:47 amWe need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:47 am
That’s pretty ambitious, Eck!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:49 amComment by Jay Randal — “Bush to spy on everyone in the Congress and Dubya’s political opponents like Cindy Sheehan” Yep! Marry this little jewel of legislation with the Jul. 17 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq. We are going to have some real fun in the next year.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:50 amEgg’s been having trouble posting comments, so he’s tkaing a break from TP. It’s not the same without him.
Comment by Zooey
No cess party tonight, then. You can join me in the hottub if you like.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:51 amThe government has done it’s job today, stepping across party lines to protect the people of the United States from a very real enemy. I am happy that the hysterical rantings of those like Rep. Nadler, and those on blogs such as this, are NOT the feelings of the mainstream.
I see on the roll call that my Representative did vote against the bill, so I will be emailing him and letting him know of my disgust. However, I know it will fall on deaf ears. He consistently loses in the county I live in, but wins the rest of his district. In short, he’s not our Representative.
Am I elated that this bill passed? No. It would be far better if this bill were not necessary. However, the reality is that the one real function of our national government is to protect the people of the United States. I am happy that regardless of the rhetoric, it would appear that most in congress do actually take their job seriously from time to time.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:51 amLaws are not retroactive…
If it is against the law for me to spit on the sidewalk this week and I spit on the sidewalk, then I should have to pay the fine or do the time, right? If Congress then enacts a law saying that it is not illegal to spit on the sidewalk. It doesn’t apply to last week. Except for the President? HE gets his butt covered by a retroactive law? BS.
Bush broke the law and should be held accountable.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:51 amWe need Egg and Wayne and Jane and Mr. P to get this thread over a 1000 posts!
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:47 am
——————-
It can’t be done. Neo-Stalinists have taken over TP!!!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:53 amAnd the retarded cons once again cheer on the destruction of the USA by their deserter-in-chief. Now the USA is at the bottom of the list in defending democracy and freedom, becaus the repigs supported traitors in office. Republicans are traitors, now and forever. conservatives are stupid traitors, now and forever. Liberals founded this country, only to have the fearful and ignorant conservatives give it all up. What a shameful thing to do to America. The terrorists have won, through the leadership of Bush-Cheney, the world’s biggest terrorists. There is no war on terror, nor has there ever been one. There is fearmongeriong and mass murder, conducted by the sickest people on the planet, Republicans.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:54 amIt can’t be done. Neo-Stalinists have taken over TP!!!
Comment by Philolaos
Neostals.
I noticed that a lot of the threads have had weak post counts. I wonder what’s going on at TP?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:55 amNo cess party tonight, then. You can join me in the hottub if you like.
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 12:51 am
I’ll send Egg a note. I’m sure he’d love to join you. :)
August 5th, 2007 at 12:56 amT.P. bloggers are giving up.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:58 amno sense in fighting the system.
the system will destroy itself. along with the freedomfighters.
what does it matter anymore, bush allready destroyed freedumbs.
america will go down like all the other great nations before it.
Hi Eck, I’ve missed you!!!!
August 5th, 2007 at 12:59 amComment by Philolaos — According to Strauss; Neo-Stalanists are in a sense Neo-Conservatives. That means I’m in a NeoCon blog? Zooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?
August 5th, 2007 at 12:59 amThe Democrats are baffling me on this one. There was no need to provide a bill. Just go recess and go home! Let Bush expain to the American people what is needed and why the urgency. No explanation; no bill. End of discussion!!!!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:00 amI’ll send Egg a note. I’m sure he’d love to join you. :)
Comment by Zooey
Ew…
August 5th, 2007 at 1:00 amHello Michele. I’m a traditional guy and I know that’s why you “heart” me. ;)
August 5th, 2007 at 1:02 amEw…
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:00 am
Then he’ll just have to join me!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:02 amI just slipped on my body condom.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:03 amThen he’ll just have to join me!
Comment by Zooey
*unplugs the hot tub*
August 5th, 2007 at 1:04 amThis is not about Issa. Issa’s an ass but in this case he was an effective ass because he got what he wanted and got the person in the right to back, back, back down.
This is the WTF: After some pause, Nadler said he would withdraw his “truthful and accurate statements†in order to proceed with the floor debate.
Why? Why back down? Why proceed to accommodate bullying in the cause of B.S.? Issa won. Issa got what he wanted and he was wrong. Why is this happening over and over?
Trolls are a drag but they can say with considerable justification that the Dems just don’t have what it takes to stay in the hot kitchen. Sad as hell but what other conclusion is there?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:04 amMore top stories
August 5th, 2007 at 1:05 amHouse OKs wider wiretap powers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20126385/
I luv your huge balls!!!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:05 amronjazz, sorry you have such a poor opinion of your country, your government, and your fellow citizens. You are the one who should be ashamed. Your claim that there is no war on terror and that Bush and Cheney are “the world’s biggest terrorists”, are the words of someone who is at best delusional, or at worst a traitor himself.
While folks like you are busy lamenting some fictitious political destruction of the United States, the rest of us are enjoying the Land of the Free, and The Home of the Brave, happy that our government can act in a bi-partisan manner and get things done when necessary.
Thanks go out to the 40 or so Democrats who supported this bill! Thank you for putting the United States first! We could not have done it without you.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:06 amI just slipped on my body condom.
Comment by The Eck
You are going to need it when you wax the floor with me!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:06 amThen he’ll just have to join me!
Comment by Zooey
*unplugs the hot tub*
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:04 am
Dude, a hot tub is just a hot tub. Have a little confidence in your sexuality. :D
August 5th, 2007 at 1:07 amburro > notice that Rep. Pelosi did nothing to defend Nadler, nor did she tell those 41 traitorous Dems who voted for the FISA bill that she would punish them. She covered her butt voting no, but did nothing to keep the Democrats together to defeat it.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:07 amDude, a hot tub is just a hot tub. Have a little confidence in your sexuality. :D
Comment by Zooey
I don’t feel comfortable sitting in a hot tub nude with Egg.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:09 amI don’t feel comfortable sitting in a hot tub nude with Egg.
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:09 am
I wouldn’t either. I’d be wearing a swimsuit.
Sheesh, Eck….Egg’s gonna think you’re coming on to him.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:11 amComment by O. Bigfoot — Without googling this one. Who said: “Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.”
August 5th, 2007 at 1:11 amI wouldn’t either. I’d be wearing a swimsuit.
Sheesh, Eck….Egg’s gonna think you’re coming on to him.
Comment by Zooey
I better put some clothes on then…
August 5th, 2007 at 1:12 amI better put some clothes on then…
Comment by The Eck — August 5, 2007 @ 1:12 am
I think we’d all appreciate that. :D
August 5th, 2007 at 1:13 amZooey, Eck get a hotel room.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:14 amYou are going to need it when you wax the floor with me!
Comment by Michelle Malkin hearts Eck
Well, ok, but I am very tired.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:15 amZooey, Eck get a hotel room.
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:14 am
Ew.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:16 amUpdated: 2 hours, 37 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday, voting to expand the government’s abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States.
The 227-183 vote,
August 5th, 2007 at 1:18 amEck, you are my hero.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:18 am:O
August 5th, 2007 at 1:19 amDemocrats concede to Bush administration on warrantless surveillance
August 5th, 2007 at 1:20 amZooey, Eck get a hotel room.
Comment by JTitor
I wouldn’t mind dinner and a movie.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:23 amEck, you are my hero.
Comment by Wade Boggs
Thanks, man. That means a lot.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:24 am“Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.â€
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:11 am
bf
August 5th, 2007 at 1:24 amComment by Philolaos — According to Strauss; Neo-Stalanists are in a sense Neo-Conservatives. That means I’m in a NeoCon blog? Zooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 12:59 am
yup. that’s right!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:26 amPhil, we got 100 posts. Only 900 more!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:27 amZooey have you gone neocon while I’ve been away?
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 12:59 am
What makes you think that!?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:28 amWhat Jerry Nadler said is 100% accurate, and any desperate Bush defender who says otherwise is provably delusional. That would include Issa.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 4, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
So he’s delusional and your guy is a massive pussy. The bill passed. This Republican is gonna be okay with that.
Meanwhile what do you want this Democrat to tell you ?
That he had to withdraw his statements so that instead of the bill passing it could pass with less criticism ? So that he didn’t hold up debate on a bill he was voting against ?
How about what party that clear majority passing the bill came from if the only purpose was to give Bush a pass on his illegal activities ?
Why bother pretending you give a shit at all if you can’t make it even the slightest bit convincing.
You just got sold out by your party and you’re calling a Republican names about something unrelated. You go girl.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:29 am“Comment by O. Bigfoot — Without googling this one. Who said: “Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.â€
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:11 am”
I believe it was Ben Franklin who said it something like this: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?”
August 5th, 2007 at 1:29 am“WASHINGTON – The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday”
It’s about damn time he got a victory on something.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:30 amComment by Dildolaos — Twilight Zone moment. Zooey’s a neocon? Hows the classes going?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:32 amEveryone has to see the trailer for the new movie “Rendition”. This will be a bit of an eye opener.
P.S. Hey Zooey I’am the daytime michael.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:32 amP.S. Hey Zooey I’am the daytime michael.
Comment by The true blue vet — August 5, 2007 @ 1:32 am
Heh. You changed your name quick. :D
August 5th, 2007 at 1:33 amtest—-
August 5th, 2007 at 1:35 am“Everyone has to see the trailer for the new movie “Renditionâ€.”
Got a link to it? Is it another George Clooney movie?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:35 amTwilight Zone moment. Zooey’s a neocon? Hows the classes going?
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:32 am
I’m no damn neocon! Mr Pee’s an idiot.
Classes start 8/20 — can’t wait!
Where did you go off to, JTitor?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:36 amtest—-
Comment by Konservo — August 5, 2007 @ 1:35 am
It’s YOU, not the name!!!!
Heh.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:37 amComment by O. Bigfoot — Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?â€
Hmmm lets see…ummmmm….hmmmm. I have the answer!!! The answer is I don’t give a shit who said it, because whomever said it democrat or republican doesn’t understand the constitution.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:38 amI am checking the names of the 41 Democrats who voted to help Bush spy on us. One is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus: Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama. He has blown himself to bits in next year’s election.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:38 amSomebody email Egg and tell him to get his ass on here!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:39 amComment by Zooey — Hey Zoo. Busy. Moving daughter from New York to LA.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:40 amI just have a list of names, not the districts or states for the Reps who voted to help Bush. Davis I was able to pick out of the bunch so far.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:42 amJTitor, wouldn’t Zooey and I make a nice couple?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:42 amIf we can’t use inspiration to motivate our leaders(?), we should probably try fear.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:42 amIn case anyone hasn’t recognized it yet . . . .
These are not opposing parties .
They are in bed together, plain as day, the rest is just for show . . .
and money.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:43 amYou have to give Bush credit. It doesn’t matter if he has a Democrat or Republican congress, he gets what he wants.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:44 amHey Zoo. Busy. Moving daughter from New York to LA.
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:40 am
Wow. That’s a big move. I hope she likes it down there. :)
August 5th, 2007 at 1:44 amComment by The Eck — Match made in heaven, or well TP at least?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:45 amI think the dems think that they will be perceived as tough by voting with the thugs on anti-terrorism bills (in the manufactured climate of fear created and willingly swallowed by far too many Americans). It’ll never happen. The only way to show toughness is to stand up to to the thugs themselves (after all, they’re all draft-dodging pussies – one good punch to the political snotbox will shut them up, but good).
August 5th, 2007 at 1:47 amComment by Zooey — She’s moving back to the west coast. NY too cold for the socal girl.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:47 amSo did John Gotti – for a while.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:48 amIf Americans voted for change in ‘06, what exactly have they changed? It seems like all the same ‘ol to me.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:48 amMatch made in heaven, or well TP at least?
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:45 am
No, that is not happening. :P
August 5th, 2007 at 1:49 amAnd since that time, the rethugs support has dwindled. The coming elections are the democrat’s to loose. Looks like they’re trying as hard as they can.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:50 amShe’s moving back to the west coast. NY too cold for the socal girl.
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:47 am
Oh — so she’ll love it!
August 5th, 2007 at 1:51 amComment by Zooey — Yes. She lives in Hollywood now. More her style.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:57 amThe coming elections are the democrat’s to loose. Looks like they’re trying as hard as they can.
Comment by Marcus Aruelius
They are working overtime at it. They just handed Bush a huge victory.
I know there are a lot of people out there like me who believe in limited goverment, low taxes and a strong national defense. If the Repubs run on those issues, they will do fine.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:59 amYes. She lives in Hollywood now. More her style.
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:57 am
Cool. Good for her. :)
August 5th, 2007 at 1:59 amComment by O. Bigfoot — And when the Democrats take the presidency in 08 you won’t be yelling to have all this repealed? Right. I hear that the Rush Limpdick blog believes your line of shit. Why don’t you go hang out there P.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:00 amGoodnight everybody.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:01 amComment by Zooey — Shes not 3000 miles away anymore. Yeah!
August 5th, 2007 at 2:01 amGoodnight, Eck. I’ll tell Egg you were asking after him. :)
August 5th, 2007 at 2:02 amShes not 3000 miles away anymore. Yeah!
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 2:01 am
Parents are funny that way. :)
My parents said I can’t move out of Idaho, but that’s what I’m planning on doing when I’m done with school. My sister will still be here!
August 5th, 2007 at 2:04 amYep. I’m taking off too. Zooey, Eck, P, …(Sounds like the Mork & Mindy blog). Have a good night! Bigfoot go fu@k yourself and sleep tight!
August 5th, 2007 at 2:05 amWell seems how I don’t visit or post here anymore cause of people responding to trolls, this is a big, “I told you so.” and time to move to another country. Good luck with your stupid, stinking trolls, I am not dealing with it anymore.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:06 amComment by Zooey — Just do it! Talk to you tomorrow.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:06 amHeh. Goodnight, JTitor.
I’m outta here too.
Bigfoot, go swim in the cesspool!
August 5th, 2007 at 2:06 amComment by Buck Fush — Sweet dreams!
August 5th, 2007 at 2:07 amThanks Zoo.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:07 amTP has prevented 2 of my posts trying to list the 41 traitor Democrats.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:13 amI give up trying to list them > TP seems to have a time-out filter to delete the post, then it drops your name and e-mail addy out of the boxes.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:15 amI have 38 of the 41 names so far.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:18 amhttp://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
Try that link to get the list. You have to pick the Democrat names out of the YEAS list > names in roman script.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:22 amFirst Democrat on the list is Altmire.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:24 amRep. Jason Altmire (D) was just elected in 2006. He represents 4th Congressional District of Pennsylvania and has decided to be a one term fool by voting to help Bush.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:32 amRep. John Barrow is in his 2nd term and represents Georgia’s 12th District. He is a bluedog dunce.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:36 amRep. Melissa Bean is in her 2nd term and represents Illinois 8th District. She forgot she is a Democrat apparently and desires to be a GOPer.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:41 amWhat sort of leverage do the Dems think they have now after THIS? How could they do this to America? It goes without saying that the Repub Party is full of liars and idiots. However, I’m extremely disappointed by this news. It looks to like the Dems have lost a lot of ground on their campaign to bring dignity and integrity back to Amreica. They’ve become “Enablers” to “The Liars Club.” Such a sad, sad week.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:44 amRep. Dan Boren is in his 2nd term and represents Oklahoma’s 2nd District. He is very young, so Pelosi should have told him never to help Dubya.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:45 amOh boy Rep. Leonard Boswell was first elected to Congress in 1969. He is an old fossil that represents Iowa’s 3rd District. He knew better than to help Bush or he is senile.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:50 amRep Alan Boyd was first elected to Congress in 1997. He represents Florida’s 2nd District. He claims to be a proud leader of the Blue Dog Democrats.
It was the Blue Dogs who have betrayed us and some old fools too.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:56 amThe issue is the Blue Dog Dems. Got to develop way to influence them. They run scared of conservative districts. We have to come up with a way to make them more responsive to Demo agenda.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:59 amComment by Spudd — August 4, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
If they voted yea based on blackmail are STILL traitors. Motives don’t play into it. You can betray your country because you were bribed, blackmailed, or just because you just felt like it, you are still a traitor.
The Democrats with this vote have demonstrated once and for all that they are scumbags who should be stripped of office, and what is more, they have demonstrated once and for all why the next president should not be a Democrat – the Democrats want to do the exact same things as Bush when they get into power.
It is the only argument for why they voted to give Bush yet more power without any oversight. Hillary, the next Democrat candidate if the official polls are right, is going to be GW Bush 2.
Vote independent, take the risk because you know damn well by this vote that by voting Democrat you may as well vote Republican.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:07 amOne more brief bio of a member of the traitor 41 group: Rep. Brian Higgins who is in his 2nd term. He represents New York’s 27th District. On his website he has a pic of himself with Nancy Pelosi his mentor. Nancy did not even try to get Democrats to vote as a group to reject the FISA bill.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:10 amI did not mean to kill this thread, but sometimes truth hurts. 41 House Democrats betrayed our entire nation. I wonder if they got their 30 pieces of silver like Judas?
August 5th, 2007 at 3:24 amIt’s now official. The terrorists have won. Time to bring the troops home.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:38 amIn 2008 I will vote for Cindy Sheehan and Ralph Nader. Screw you, Democrats.
Good ahead and gloat, you f**king traitorous Republicans.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:45 am#36 Comment by burro — August 5, 2007 @ 1:04 am
Trolls are a drag but they can say with considerable justification that the Dems just don’t have what it takes to stay in the hot kitchen. Sad as hell but what other conclusion is there?
Look at who actually voted and who they represent. They are mostly Blue Dog Democrats. They don’t represent the Progressive Democratic Party. These Representatives seek to find bipartisan solutions. They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:11 amHere is the link to the Blue Dogs on Kos.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:17 am
They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.
Comment by Merlin
The neo-cons are not conservative, but use conservatism. Capitalism is and will always be liberal. Freedom is liberal and freedom is free markets, freedom is what drives Capitalism. Sexy Ads, Sexy shows, sexy garments.
I dare you to define capitalism as some kind of theological state. YOU cannot do it. Conservatism means liberalism.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:26 amThey are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.
Comment by Merlin
LMAO how can a free market be conservative? It can’t!!
IDIOT. Liberals own you. And always will.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:29 amHere’s a nice Glenn Greenwald quote on this:
Democrats’ responsibility for Bush radicalism
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2007/08/04/democrats/
I’m Australian, but I’m worrying about what’s going on in America. It’s become so reactionary and cowardly (apart from the soldiers). It’s like there’s no backbone there. And it’s happening in Australia. Just say the word “terrorism”, and everyone begs for the government to take more control and the opposition party just agrees with the government for fear of being labelled “soft on terrorism”.
Terrorism is a big political and media beatup. Taking a big picture long-term view, even terrorists dropping a few nukes, wouldn’t be important.
It’s time for someone to take leadership and spread a positive, constructive outlook. Screw the terrorists! We should just do solid intelligent police work, and get on with positive, constructive living. Letting terrorists change our liberties is insane.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:36 amGood ahead and gloat, you f**king traitorous Republicans.
Comment by King George the Dumber
Their is nothing for them to gloat over!!
Bwahahahah
August 5th, 2007 at 4:51 amMerlins DAD
Shouldn’t you call yourself Taliesan? Anyway;
Conservative doesn’t actually mean theocracy. Neocons have twisted it into being that (In actual fact neocons are a third political alignment entirely) but conservatism proper means maintaining the status quo, which in a free market economy means maintaining a free market even when that market is detrimental to everyone.
Liberalism on the other hand means not so much a free market as a philosophy of maximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others. Hence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals) but not permissable to legislate against gay marriage (Because, if your neighbourhood has a gay couple getting married in it, it doesn’t effect you in any measurable way.)
August 5th, 2007 at 5:32 amPerhaps you meant Talisman Bruce?
No, I dont do/create talisman.
Conservative doesn’t actually mean theocracy. Neocons have twisted it into being that -BG
Such was my point =).
Liberalism on the other hand means not so much a free market as a philosophy of maximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others.
In effect, profit. $$ as long as you don’t break a law its okay to exploit human desires. (pornography etc) Desires include money. =)
Hence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals) And this is against conservatism?
August 5th, 2007 at 5:46 amHence, to a liberal it is perfectly permissable to legislate against pollution (It harms other individuals)
I am a conservative and uphold life! Except when profits supercede life.
August 5th, 2007 at 5:47 ammaximising the freedom of the individual while minimising the harm that individual does to others. -BG
Exploitation harms others.
How can you/one harm one minimally? Its okay to harm?
August 5th, 2007 at 5:50 amMerlins DAD
Perhaps you meant Talisman Bruce?
No, I mean Taliesan. Father of Merlin if you take the pagan side of the Arthurian myth.
I mean, I suppose you could call yourself Satan, if you are going to take the Christian version, but I seriously don’t think you want to go that route.
As to whether liberalism opposes conservatism? A long standing myth. The two might be different, but they aren’t always opposing concepts. The opposition traditional to the two movements is more out of the fact that liberalism as a biproduct of its aims pushes for change, while conservatism aims to do the reverse.
As to pornography? So long as everyone involved is a consenting adult I, as a liberal, have no problems with it.
August 5th, 2007 at 5:57 amHow can you/one harm one minimally? Its okay to harm?
Comment by Merlins DAD — August 5, 2007 @ 5:50 am
Frequently, yes it is okay. You step on my toe accidentally, it causes me harm. It is okay because it was accidental.
A person goes into surgery, to save their life they have to be cut open. This causes them harm, but not as much harm as leaving them to die would. It is okay because the harm caused is intended to avoid greater harm being done if you did nothing.
A criminal tries to kill you, you succeed in defending yourself and killing the criminal. This causes harm, but is okay because while that criminal was trying to actively reduce your lifespan, you were simply defending yourself.
The liberal ideal is a balance between freedom and protecting that freedom. A middle way if you prefer Chinese philosophy.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:06 amRelating to the new surveillance legislation, I found this article with some of the back story (or propaganda if you’re a skeptic) on the problem with FISA and why it needed amending. I believe nothing until I can somehow verify through another channel, but this has believeability. (I still don’t trust them)
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/03/america/NA-GEN-US-Intelligence-Powers.php
August 5th, 2007 at 6:39 amI reject all Republicans and Democrats who voted for this.
I reject all Republicans and Democrats running for President in 2008.
Anyone want to join me in The American Revolution II?
August 5th, 2007 at 7:04 am“Look at who actually voted and who they represent. They are mostly Blue Dog Democrats. They don’t represent the Progressive Democratic Party. These Representatives seek to find bipartisan solutions. They are conservative, not liberal. Daily Kos has the breakdown on them.
Comment by Merlin — August 5, 2007 @ 4:11 am”
And the Progressive Democratic Party doesn’t represent the people of the United States at large, only the far-left fringe. The United States is still a conservative country by an large. Many of the Democrats who were elected to congress last year were elected on platforms more conservative than the Republicans they defeated.
Sorry to break it to you folks, but conservatism will win every time. Only when the Republicans got drunk with their power and failed to uphold the conservative values they promised to stand for did they lose their majority. Pork barrel spending, waffling on social issues, no clear cut strategy to win in Iraq, failure to act on previously passed measures to secure our open borders, all contributed to the Republican loss.
Those of you who think Democrats have sealed their defeat by voting for the Protect America Act are all wrong. The American public overwhelmingly supports spying on terrorists. And the Protect America Act legalizes spying on terrorists. This isn’t even a huge issue to most Americans.
All of the ranting about the destruction of the Constitution doesn’t resonate with the American people. Why? Here’s the major reason:
“Comment by O. Bigfoot — Here’s a quiz for you. Who said: “Exactly what freedoms are the citizens of the United States losing by the passage of the Protect America Act?â€
Hmmm lets see…ummmmm….hmmmm. I have the answer!!! The answer is I don’t give a shit who said it, because whomever said it democrat or republican doesn’t understand the constitution.
Comment by JTitor — August 5, 2007 @ 1:38 am”
As usual, heavy on the rhetoric, light on the facts. All sorts of ethereal talk about how the Constitution has been compromised, and if we don’t all agree, then we simply don’t understand the Constitution. But no one can come up with any specifics on exactly HOW the Constitution has been compromised. Why? Because in reality it hasn’t been compromised at all.
No one is losing any freedoms, no one will know the difference. Average Americans will go to work on Monday, go home after work, play with the kids, go to the park, the lake, the bar, the sports game, watch NASCAR on TV, whatever, and nothing will change from last week, before the Protect America Act was passed.
The only difference is that the government now will not have to go through the political wrangling necessary to listen in on electronic communications from outside the country that they have been listening in to all along. The issue is settled, for now, and we won’t have to continue to broadcast our surveillance efforts to the world anymore.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:06 amI hate the god damned democrats!!!! Weak kneed, lily livered, impotent, incompetent, petrified, god damned cowards!!!! Give me a hundred evil greedy horrible republicans rather than one lying, double crossing, capitulating, prevaricating, belly crawling dog of a democrat.
At least I know what I am up against with the republicans. The democrats are betrayers of the worst kind.
God, I hate the democrats.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:28 amO. Bigfoot
Never say anything you are not absolutely sure of.
As a matter of fact we CAN point out how the US constitution has been violated quite easily.
Amendments IV, VI and VIII
Oh, and this bit in XIV:
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Note how it says any person, rather then citizen.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:33 am“Vote independent,….”
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 3:07 am
Here Here!!
Bruce,
I’ve been trying to warn you TP toadys for some time now that you are backing the wrong horse in siding with these dems. But because you lack forsight you continue to think that a strong federal gov is not a threat to liberty.
“We’re hugely disappointed with the Democrats,” said Caroline Fredrickson, legislative director for the American Civil Liberties Union.
We are truly being led down a road to facsism and most republicans are peed off also because their politicians have betrayed them as well. We must elect people devoted to restricting the power of the federal gov.
You cant have your cake and eat it too. The “progressives” have an agenda of increasing the size and power of the fed gov. This is what you get when you elect them.
Less federal gov = more liberty.
Starve the beast. It must be done soon or there will be no turning back.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:34 am“CHENEY/TANCREDO 2008!!!
God Bless America!!!
Comment by Philolaos — August 4, 2007 @ 11:12 pm”
God forgive America if this happens.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:45 amNat
If there is a god, and that happens, what the heck makes you think he is on America’s side?
August 5th, 2007 at 7:48 am“If there is a god, and that happens, what the heck makes you think he is on America’s side?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 7:48 am”
That’s a good question considering everyone who believes in God thinks he is on their side. I don’t know whose side he’s on or if he has even picked a side.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:57 amIt just keeps getting darker, doesn’t it? We think we saw some light at the end of the tunnel, when we, the people, made our voices heard in the election of 2006. Yet things still keep going from bad to worse, and there are precious few true heroes out there.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:41 amI am curious to know how the NEWLY elected Democrats voted on this mater, and are THEY at least hearing this country’s cry for change? Must we change every last one of them?
Oh, and for the record, you neo-cons..I’m not for giving ANY president these unitary powers. Not Obama, not Clinton, not Edwards and definitely not Bush. Our country is on a short road to hell.
There is no bigger lie than bigfoot’s lie that America is a conservative country. it was founded as a liberal democracy, and came to to its heights as a liberal democracy. All fo the great things we are known for are liberal, and liberal leaders won WW2. bigfoot hates that idea of America because he is ignorant, racist, mysoginistic, homophobic and gullible, as are all conservatives. America has never taken such a beating economically, militarily and security-wise as it has with a conservative government. the shredding of the Constitution and the ignorant (Americans will do blah blah NASCAR blah blah”) is pure, evil, Nazi rhetoric, voiced by a member of the far-right totalitarian fringe. The numbers prove that America is a liberal country that has been hijacked by outright thieves, liars and traitors, and the conmfort these fascists enjoy as their sociopathic leaders destroy this country shows how pathetic they are. Chickenhawk traitors have no standing, bigfoot, that means you. Real Americans are not afraid of Freedom, on ly cowardly bedwetters. You would have been hanged for treason during the Revolution, as you are on the side of King George. The only good to come out of this would be if the “terrorists” targeted you and people like you. As it is, you are the biggest supporter of terrorism when you gutlessly capitulate to the Nazi wannabes in charge today. You are a disgusting example of antiAmericanism here at home.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:46 amGee, why wouldn’t the Democrats give-in to bush on this? After all with a president with such a high approval rating, with all the successes he’s had on the domestic and foreign scene, the fact that after 7 years bush’s administration has been scandal free, I can understand … what?, huh? … really?
… never mind …
August 5th, 2007 at 9:24 amI’m never voting for another Democrat ever again.
August 5th, 2007 at 9:28 amI really wish there was a way we could generate emails to every one of these gutless Democrats all at once. You know.. one letter reaching multiple cowards. I’d certainly be one writing them every day.
August 5th, 2007 at 9:31 amMoney talks and bullshit walks, I am sitting here mad as hell. The only way the dems will get it is to see how much money we can raise for Cindy Shehan. I am going to send Cindy 10 dollars a month until nov 08, If you can people send her 1 dollar everytime the dems piss you off. I think that will send a powerful message, We the people want justice, that is GW Bush impeached, convicted and executed for treason.
August 5th, 2007 at 9:54 amWaydot: go to http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml for the official House roll call votes. Appallingly, 41 Democrats voted to enable the continuation of this illegal measure, thereby providing defacto exoneration of Bush’s culpability. Utterly appalling are the only words to describe such betrayal by these 41 Dems to the american people.
In fact, the final House vote was 227-183 (with 23 abstaining). Just do the math: If these dems voted “nay”, the number would have been 224 – and taking these 41 enabling votes away from the “yea side”, it leaves a paltry 145 for the Yea Side of the ledger – making the final vote: 224-145 – and would have made a clear statement TO the people that the Dems are working for us as well as a clear statement to Bush Co that this politically-motivated chicanery MUST stop right now.
But, just like bending over with the pursestrings on the Iraq War, the Dems caved – again!
Don’t be absurd: Vote for a Third! HAD ENOUGH YET??
August 5th, 2007 at 10:01 amoOPS….Fingers not awake yet! Lo Siento! It would have made the vote 222-176.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:04 amMaybe I’ll get it yet…..If these 41 dems had not caved on us, the vote would have been 186-224 (with 2 Republicans voting “nay”). I imagine Ron Paul voted “nay” but I haven’t dissected it enough to determine who the other Republican was.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:07 amI’d agree with waydot….it would make a bold statement, huh? I’m so disgusted by watching these folks in Congress, red and blue alike, bend over and submit to the Bush Admin. It just sickens me. They’re ALL yellow, if you ask me.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:08 amO. Bigfoot. Hmm. Your remarks are similar to those of the citizens of Germany in 1932. Then *poof* before they knew it, it was too late. Wake up.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:23 amI,M for Communism ALL THE WAY BABIES!
August 5th, 2007 at 10:27 am
no comment, only sadness
Comment by sdr — August 4, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
Sadness is my overwhelming reaction too. If our whole government is collaborating in violating the Constitution, then there’s only one remedy and it has nothing to do with voting. It was explicitly endorsed by the Founders so let’s get to it forthwith. And I think the perfect time to start is while all our congresspeople, executives, and judges, as well as their corporate and media collaborators, are dispersed on vacation and feeling oh so relaxed and superior. Time to clear some BUSH, cheney some CHENEYS, judge some judges, downsize some CEO’s, and lob off some lobbyists. Think patriotically and act locally…
August 5th, 2007 at 10:31 amI’m betting the Dems voted on it because they didn’t want to be seen as “weak on terror”.
This is like the McCarthism of the 40s and 50s, where everyone was terrified of being called a communist sympathizer.
The Democrats suck. There’s no real difference between them and the Republicans. Time to vote for Nader. Or Ron Paul… I guess…
August 5th, 2007 at 10:32 amI have this deep, miserable sadness that neither Gore nor Feingold is running. Clinton scares me, and Obama appears unripe. I would feel so much better, have so much more hope….
August 5th, 2007 at 10:44 amAugust 5th, 2007 at 10:46 am
CHINA PEOPLE ARE MEEK AND HUMBLE!
August 5th, 2007 at 10:48 amTHE POOR PEOPLE ARE MEEK AND HUMBLE.
GUESS WHICH NATION IS NOT MEEK AND HUMBLE!
YOU GOT IT!!!!
FREE NATIONS ARE NOT!
I,M ALL for Communism BABIES! ALL THE WAY!!!!
BUCK FREEDUMBS!
Please explain to me how a president with approval ratings in the 20’s can exert “political pressure�
There’s something else going on here that we don’t know about.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:53 amNow, I’m really scared about what these bastards have been doing.
“I’m betting the Dems voted on it because they didn’t want to be seen as “weak on terrorâ€.
That’s what happened. Bush has been ratcheting up the “we’re gonna be hit” rhetoric with the help of people like Trent Lott who said “we all need to leave town for six weeks” making it sound like he knew that Washington DC was going to be hit. I’m sure that the Democrats are scared that if something happens (either real or manufactured by the madman in the White House), that the Republicans would point their fingers at the Democrats and say “see what happened because you didn’t give Bush the powers he needed to protect us”. The sad thing is that Bush will do it anyway.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:01 amTesting…TP’s site has become like our entire administration, corrupt, infected and broken….Post’s don’t go through and no response, just like the Rep’s and Dem’s, no one manning the store and fixing the messes just creating more problem’s…..Blessings
August 5th, 2007 at 11:02 amOk, I tried to list all the Democrats who voted with Bush and it won’t post. So I’m going to do it in pieces and see if that works. Spend some time today writing or calling these people. Go to their web page and find out their snail mail address. Then make up a street and enter their city and zip and that will get you past their filters. Fight back!
August 5th, 2007 at 11:03 amHere’s the first of the list:
Jason Altmire (4th Pennsylvania)
August 5th, 2007 at 11:03 amJohn Barrow (12th Georgia) Blue Dog
Melissa Bean (8th Illinois) Blue Dog
Dan Boren (2nd Oklahoma) Blue Dog
Leonard Boswell (3rd Iowa)
Allen Boyd (2nd Florida) Blue Dog
Christopher Carney (10th Pennsylvania) Blue Dog
Ben Chandler (6th Kentucky) Blue Dog
Rep. Jim Cooper (5th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Jim Costa (20th California) Blue Dog
Bud Cramer (5th Alabama) Blue Dog
Henry Cuellar (28th Texas)
Artur Davis (7th Alabama)
Lincoln Davis (4th Tennessee) Blue Dog
“Please explain to me how a president with approval ratings in the 20’s can exert “political pressureâ€?
There’s something else going on here that we don’t know about.
Now, I’m really scared about what these bastards have been doing.
Comment by Beth — August 5, 2007 @ 10:53 am”
I agree. I don’t see how it’s possible any real political preasure could have been exerted here. Kind of makes you wonder who or what is really running our country. Behing the masks of the Republicans and the Democrats there is a power the runs our country. The question is what is it? Who really is in control? Am I just being paranoid?
my belief has always been that it was the leaders of the energy and arms industries, but that doesn’t explain this…
August 5th, 2007 at 11:04 amHere’s the second part of the list:
Joe Donnelly (2nd Indiana) Blue Dog
August 5th, 2007 at 11:07 amChet Edwards (17th Texas)
Brad Ellsworth (8th Indiana) Blue Dog
Bob Etheridge (North Carolina)
Bart Gordon (6th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (South Dakota) Blue Dog
Brian Higgins (27th New York)
Baron Hill (9th Indiana) Blue Dog
Nick Lampson (23rd Texas) Blue Dog
Daniel Lipinski (3rd Illinois)
Jim Marshall (8th Georgia) Blue Dog
Jim Matheson (2nd Utah) Blue Dog
Mike McIntyre (7th North Carolina) Blue Dog
Charlie Melancon (3rd Louisiana) Blue Dog
Harry Mitchell (5th Arizona)
DigDug
How about this: Its the Democrats and the Republicans. The energy and arms industries are only two amongst many backers for this pair, but in all reality, it is the Democrats and the Republicans who rule America.
And they want to expand and maintain that state of affairs. They can do that most easily when they can control communications. It is no accident that most dictatorships start out by monitoring their citizens communications.
Plus, in this day and age, how can you be sure they aren’t getting bribes to leak the stuff to telemarketers and spammers?
August 5th, 2007 at 11:16 amIn response to #208 Dig Dug, I believe it is big business and the
August 5th, 2007 at 11:17 amFederal Reserve which BTW is not run by the gov. but by big money banker’s…Even our money is run by shadowy figure’s from all over the world….Blessings
I give up trying to post the list here. You can get the entire list at Daily Kos.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:20 amHi Beth.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:23 am“How about this: Its the Democrats and the Republicans. The energy and arms industries are only two amongst many backers for this pair, but in all reality, it is the Democrats and the Republicans who rule America.”
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 11:16 am
You mean, together? Cooperating behind the scenes? Perhaps…
August 5th, 2007 at 11:25 amYou all realize that if Hillary is elected, we will have been ruled by members of the same two familes for 24 years. That’s a quarter of a century… can anyone say ‘dynasty’
I don’t know, I think my conspiracy theory brain is going into overdrive… maybe I should outside and get some fresh are for a while…
August 5th, 2007 at 11:28 amWhat a puss. I would have told them to shove it.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:31 amy’know… when i see a link like this:
(FISA) bill by a 227-183 vote.
by clicking on those linked numbers
i’m expecting to go to the roll call list…
NOT the jerusalem post…
what’s THAT about?…
August 5th, 2007 at 11:42 amanyone else?
.
hi whoever you are!
August 5th, 2007 at 11:43 amDigDug – I was referring perhaps to black mail as the result of the wiretapping that has gone as the piece we don’t know about.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:45 am“DigDug – I was referring perhaps to black mail as the result of the wiretapping that has gone as the piece we don’t know about.
Comment by Beth — August 5, 2007 @ 11:45 am”
Oh, I see what you mean. I suppose that could be the case too.
I think it’s more likely the fact that there is very little difference between the Dems and the Reps actual policies, and when you add the threat of being called ‘weak on terror’, it was probably not very difficult at all for the Republicans to get this one past.
I believe that our democracy is broken. We have no real options when it comes time to vote.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:56 amTime to vote for Nader. Or Ron Paul… I guess…
Comment by DigDug — August 5, 2007 @ 10:32 am
if you were listening to the republicRATS like i am, on abc,
you would think again before giving any one of THEM
such an opening to be the next dictator…
well, if we’re lucky it would be rudy… but we’re not so lucky…
thirds are best left to the state and locals, maybe congress…
August 5th, 2007 at 11:57 ambut not for prez… not. this. time. …
…
Nadler did a good thing. But he should have refused to withdraw his statement.
August 5th, 2007 at 12:14 pmgeorge, your father’s a priest…
i’d rather explain it to your father.
-rudy, at the repug debate…
his answer when asked about life changing mistakes…
big laughs all around…
August 5th, 2007 at 12:19 pmi grinned too…
Time to vote for Nader. Or Ron Paul… I guess…
Comment by DigDug — August 5, 2007 @ 10:32 am
if you were listening to the republicRATS like i am, on abc,
you would think again before giving any one of THEM
such an opening to be the next dictator…
Comment by katy — August 5, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Ron Paul is a libertarian. He’s just running as a Republican because he believes that’s the only way to get elected in this country. Personally I doubt I’d vote for anyone that is affiliated with Republican party in any way. Or the Democratic either for the matter
August 5th, 2007 at 12:33 pmDuring the very time Congress was debating codifying President Bush’s lawbreaking by revising FISA, Alberto Gonzales’ DOJ was raiding the home of a former Justice official to identify the person who first brought the illicit program to light.
For the disturbing details of selective retribution by the White House, see:
August 5th, 2007 at 12:53 pm“Payback Time: FBI Raids Home of Suspected NSA Leaker.”
Comment by DigDug — August 5, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
you didn’t “get it”…
what i’m sayin’ is: vote 3rd party = repug dictator…
you forgot the last part:
thirds are best left to the state and locals, maybe congress…
but not for prez… not. this. time. …
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT
August 5th, 2007 at 12:57 pmis the only way to keep them from stealing the presidency…
…
katy
I judge the Democrats by their actions. Here, they acted to further weaken the US constitution in a manner consistent with the Republican Party.
I do not see the point to voting Democrat in order to simply get a Republican-Lite president who makes all the right noises and but acts just like the other guys.
You talk about 3 parties a Republican dictatorship, would it make any difference if it was a Democrat dictatorship? Or a continued duopoly of it becoming and harder to tell which party is the lesser of two evils?
It is time to reboot America’s politics. It is time to vote for a third party.
And it is time that message got taken to the rightwing.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:20 pm“Ron Paul is a libertarian. He’s just running as a Republican because he believes that’s the only way to get elected in this country. Personally I doubt I’d vote for anyone that is affiliated with Republican party in any way. Or the Democratic either for the matter”
Well, if that’s the case, then why has he voted with Bush 80-90% of the time? Before you consider Ron Paul, please go see how he votes on important issues. Other than Iraq, I see him as pretty main-stream Republican.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:28 pmYou know, now that I have thought about what has happened, I am starting to get mad at people bailing on the entire Democratic party for what a few Senators who are wusses and the Blue Dog Democrats (who are more like Republicans) have done.
The problem with the Democrats is that they can’t maintain party discipline like the Lemming Republicans can. The Democrats are thinking people with varying views on a lot of subjects. They are not prone to voting along the party line just to maintain party loyalty. Once I heard someone compare dealing with Democrats as being like herding cats.
I have decided that I am going to withhold my judgment until the Democrats prove to me beyond a shadow of doubt that they have abandoned us. I am hoping that they have something really big up their sleeves that they will drop when they get back from their vacation.
But, I’m still furious at them for taking that vacation. They are leaving town and allowing Bush the opportunity to appoint a new AG as a recess appointment when Gonzo quits. If they allow that to happen, then I’ll be ready to abandon the Democratic Party.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:32 pmi hear ya, bruce…
keep sending that message from SOUTH AFRICA…
what i’m trying to prevent is another STOLEN ELECTION…
again:
thirds are best left to the state and locals, maybe congress…
but not for prez… not. this. time. …
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT
is the only way to keep them from stealing the presidency…
that’s all i’m sayin’…
August 5th, 2007 at 2:35 pm…
bilbobaggins
Three seperate incidents now of the Democrats stabbing their supporters in the back.
1: Pelosi takes impeachment off the table.
2: The Democrats fund the war, and then smirkingly congratulate themselves on how they have played their supporters.
3: They rubber stamp away a major civil right in a manner consistent with the Republican Party’s rubber stamp.
So tell me, why shouldn’t we judge them harshly? Because it is only a few blue-dog Democrats? the so-called DINOs? No, I say we judge them as we judge the Republicans. If those DINOs are really the root cause, and they are really not representative of the Democrats, then they should be kicked out of the party.
There will be no double standard and if the Democrats fail they most lose elections. If they succeed they must win elections. Failure, must no longer be excused by treason within the party.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:40 pmBut, in the cases of those congressmen who are blue-dog Democrats, or Lieberman clones? If they don’t lose their primaries vote third party. get rid of the DINOs because they will drive the Democrats to extinction.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:01 pmOkay, the one post showed up before the other. Nonetheless you should get my point.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:02 pm#78 is exactly right — when the Pugs were in power Issa’s counterpart wouldn’t even have been heard on the floor.
August 5th, 2007 at 3:23 pmtest
August 5th, 2007 at 4:37 pmWhy didn’t he tell Darrell Issa to go f*** himself? The truth is the truth. The Democrats have a well deserved reputation for weakness.
August 5th, 2007 at 4:41 pmwhere the hell is my post that i’ve now sent 3 times????
August 5th, 2007 at 4:49 pm“you didn’t “get itâ€â€¦
what i’m sayin’ is: vote 3rd party = repug dictator…
you forgot the last part:
thirds are best left to the state and locals, maybe congress…
but not for prez… not. this. time. …
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT
is the only way to keep them from stealing the presidency…
…
Comment by katy — August 5, 2007 @ 12:57 pm”
That’s how I felt in 2004.
I’m tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. A lesser evil is still evil. The democrats IMO are just as much in the pockets of the pro-war arms and energy industry coorperations and their lobbyists as the republicans. And to fuel the fire there is the whole fear of being seen as ’soft on terror’.
Anyway, I’m not 100% sure I’ll bail on the democrats in 08. They still have a chance to change their behavior and win my vote, but I’m not holding mt breath.
For the time being though, I’m in a greement with Bruce:
“I do not see the point to voting Democrat in order to simply get a Republican-Lite president who makes all the right noises and but acts just like the other guys.
You talk about 3 parties a Republican dictatorship, would it make any difference if it was a Democrat dictatorship? Or a continued duopoly of it becoming and harder to tell which party is the lesser of two evils?
It is time to reboot America’s politics. It is time to vote for a third party.
And it is time that message got taken to the rightwing.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
I’ve spent some time over at RedState.com (until I hinted at my dis-approval of the Iraq war in a post and got banned =D ). You’d be surprised how many conservatives are talking about bailing on the republican party to vote 3rd party as well. Alot of them (the libertarian leaning, fiscaly conservative) are sick of what’s going on as well.
August 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pm#231 Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 5, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
No, I say we judge them as we judge the Republicans.
This is simply the wrong way to do it. You are saying “All Democrats are bad.” It sounds good, and satisfies our need to find a simple answer. (Dualistic thinking like Bush?) “Just kick ‘em all out!” or vote for a third party candidate that will show a sense of rebellion and make you feel better (”There! I voted for Nader! I showed ‘em”) while doing more harm than good, is not the answer that makes sense. Short of a revolution, we will have two parties that matter, and that is the reality. Whether you like it or not. It is imperative that we change the Democratic party from within. There is no other reality based alternative.
So recognize the reality of today, and stop whining about what it has been from 1985 till now. Where were all the loud voices of dissent from the public in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. I heard only a few. In 2001 everybody was clamoring to be a neocon, not a Democrat! Now all of a sudden everyone is demanding action and courage from the very Democrats that the public was happy to elect ‘without thought.’ Tigers don’t change their stripes, and these Bluedogs and appeasers haven’t and won’t. They must be removed. You work on fixing the patient, not killing him by desertion.
The election of 2006 was but the first step and there is a lot more to do. 2008 will be the next step. Don’t lose perspective, folks, and act out of frustration and anger.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:10 pmInteresting that I was going to post a quote by Hillary in my post above but it was not accepted that way. Removing it, got it posted. I will try again and see what happens.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:14 pmTP is still filtering out anything “Hillary” it appears. How sad. This smacks of comment management. As has been pointed out many times in the past, there are many troll posts that TP would be wiser to ban, than posts that express a legitimate point of view that differs from their own. I will register my complaint but I don’t expect an answer. I have not gotten any in the past.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:35 pmMerlin > not wise to mention “AIPAC” on here either. TP deletes posts that say too much about it.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:38 pm#239 Comment by Merlin — August 5, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
You raise some good points. After all the democratic party was “The White Man’s Party” and staunchly pro-slavery for most of the century following the end of the Civil War, and they certainly have changed since then. I guess the party could change in big ways still. I just hope you’re not being overly optimistic.
My worry, is that there are political and economic powers behind the scenes, that are getting more and more entrenched with the current parties that are in power. Multi-national coorperations that wield incredible power globaly, and hunger for more power. Modern day rober-barons, but far, FAR more powerful than the rober-barons of old could have ever dream of being. I fear that there is a point of no return that we may be nearing. A point where the real powers –with the aid of the two practicaly wedded parties in power– get so entrenched there is no way back.
August 5th, 2007 at 6:47 pmBut, maybe I’m just paranoid :P
Maybe I spend to much time trying to read between the lines…
August 5th, 2007 at 6:50 pm#242 Comment by Jay Randal — August 5, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Merlin > not wise to mention “AIPAC†on here either. TP deletes posts that say too much about it.
Yes, thanks for the reminder. That had slipped into the recesses of my mind.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:08 pmWell, another post was not allowed.. No mention of H or AIPAC. Just a response to DigDug.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:46 pmAnd now TP is not allowing me to post my email to them regarding this problem. It has it on record as duplicate posts are rejected as “you already said that”.
Very strange. Maybe I should try posting it in parts. Let’s see if that works.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:56 pmPart 1 of my email to TP
I would appreciate your comment on what your policy is regarding censorship of political comment.
I was not able to post a comment as long as I included a quote from Hillary Clinton. Removing that quote allowed the comment to appear. Posting just the quote was rejected as well.
I don’t believe I was violating your rules here. It appears that you are censoring the comments to suit your own political agenda. In other words, any comment that might appear, or is negative to Hillary, is simply banned.
Here is the comment that was not accepted by you. Please tell me why you have chosen to ban it.
I have omitted the “offending” comment I sent to them so it posts here.
End of comment
August 5th, 2007 at 8:02 pmThis is the next part of my email to TP.
You (TP) hold an important position in the political arena. Many Progressives, and I am one, look to you to be honest and straight forward in your dealings with us. We have had enough of the secrecy and news management that comes from BushCo and the MSM. We need this forum for open debate and any censorship detracts from that important goal.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:08 pmNext part of my email to TP
So the bottom line is that we, your commenters, need to know your position on censorship of political comment, and why you are taking it.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:11 pmAnd the next part of my email to TP
Keep in mind that silence is the same as consent. No reply, (as BushCo is, and has been doing,) and you are guilty (in our minds) of censorship and your blog’s reputation will take a step toward its own demise. That censorship “fact” will then be spread like feathers in the wind.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:14 pmGetting stuff to post here today is a real chore.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:19 pmTest
August 5th, 2007 at 8:36 pmI quit. The final close won’t print. I think the server has problems.
August 5th, 2007 at 8:42 pmDarrell Issa (R-CA) – Inventor of the car alarm from hell. The annoying one that goes off when a bird craps on it or the wind blows or you are trying to take a nap.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:26 pmJust say the word “terrorismâ€, and everyone begs for the government to take more control and the opposition political party just agrees with the government for fear of being labelled “soft on terrorismâ€.
Terrorism is a big political and media beatup. Taking a big picture long-term view, even terrorists dropping a few nukes, wouldn’t be important.
It’s time for someone to take leadership and spread a positive, constructive outlook. Screw the terrorists! We should just do solid intelligent police work, and get on with positive, constructive living. Letting terrorists change our liberties is insane.
August 6th, 2007 at 1:03 amThe only difference is that the government now will not have to go through the political wrangling necessary to listen in on electronic communications from outside the country that they have been listening in to all along. The issue is settled, for now, and we won’t have to continue to broadcast our surveillance efforts to the world anymore.
Comment by O. Bigfoot-in-the-Mouth — August 5, 2007 @ 7:06 am
First, I didn’t realize that getting a warrant from the court meant broadcasting our surveillance efforts to the world. Could you please explain how this is broadcasted?
August 6th, 2007 at 1:40 amSecond, an important point that tends to be forgotten by supporters of warrantless surveillance is that the various US intelligence agencies are still very short of staff capable of translating Arabic, Urdu, and other languages spoken in the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is already a backlog of hundreds of thousands of hours of taped conversations that have yet to be rendered into English. Without competent interpreters, the backlog will only grow, and the increased wiretapping will be almost meaninglessand ineffective unless it is actually to be used on English-speaking opponents of Bush–not real terrorists.
#256 Comment by Lora — August 6, 2007 @ 1:40 am
US intelligence agencies are still very short of staff capable of translating Arabic, Urdu, and other languages spoken in the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
You are right, of course, in your post, IMO.
And the above quote says to me that the reasons they give for needing this “permission” is false. As Martin states above:
We should just do solid intelligent police work, and get on with positive, constructive living.
I believe it is part of the larger picture called the unitary presidency. More and more power with less and less oversight. BushCo has gone way beyond Nixon in that goal. And this has been Chany’s dream from the 70s. Though his presidential ambitions were cut short by health factors he is doing the same thing from just behind the curtain.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:30 am(Chainy cranks the handles and Bush’s voice booms from the media putting fear into the nation. Yes, “The wizard of Oz” is alive and well.
These guys are pussies!!! We need more options in this country!!
August 6th, 2007 at 8:45 am“There is no bigger lie than bigfoot’s lie that America is a conservative country. it was founded as a liberal democracy, and came to to its heights as a liberal democracy. All fo the great things we are known for are liberal, and liberal leaders won WW2. bigfoot hates that idea of America because he is ignorant, racist, mysoginistic, homophobic and gullible, as are all conservatives. America has never taken such a beating economically, militarily and security-wise as it has with a conservative government. the shredding of the Constitution and the ignorant (Americans will do blah blah NASCAR blah blahâ€) is pure, evil, Nazi rhetoric, voiced by a member of the far-right totalitarian fringe. The numbers prove that America is a liberal country that has been hijacked by outright thieves, liars and traitors, and the conmfort these fascists enjoy as their sociopathic leaders destroy this country shows how pathetic they are. Chickenhawk traitors have no standing, bigfoot, that means you. Real Americans are not afraid of Freedom, on ly cowardly bedwetters. You would have been hanged for treason during the Revolution, as you are on the side of King George. The only good to come out of this would be if the “terrorists†targeted you and people like you. As it is, you are the biggest supporter of terrorism when you gutlessly capitulate to the Nazi wannabes in charge today. You are a disgusting example of antiAmericanism here at home.
Comment by ronjazz — August 5, 2007 @ 8:46 am”
Sorry, buddy, but you are simply wrong. Lots of words in your diatribe, very little actully said.
First off, the fact that you are unable to debate without juvenile namecalling either denotes your actual age, or your maturity level. In either case, you are unqualified by your very words to be taken seriously.
The United States was founded on a “Classical Liberal” philosophy, which in no way equates to what is called liberalism today. The term “liberal” been hijacked by people such as you to describe a minor political movement that the founders would find completely foreign to them. A movement they would find dangerous to a truly free country. A movement thay would discard out of hand.
Classical Liberalism equals Modern Conservatism. The words have changed, the basic principles have not.
ronjazz, you need to go back to school.
Today, on the American stage, Modern Liberalism, when either promoted or discovered, is still relegated to a position of minor, bit player on the political scene. In short, the only time Liberals are elected to office is when they either hide their liberalism, or when they are percieved as the lesser of the evils.
Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John F. Kennedy were all more conservative, using today’s definition, than either George W. Bush or John Kerry. Given the choice, I would have voted for either of the three aformentioned rather than either of the two aftermentioned. However, we must deal with reality today, rather than “what if’s.”
August 6th, 2007 at 11:23 amFranklin Roosevelt
FDR is the originator of most of America’s social programs, believed in high taxes for the rich, and did not make a big deal about his religion. His economic phylosophy was Keynsian as opposed to the more conservative Moneterism.
He was also behind many of the regulations the rightwing seeks to overturn on American business nowadays.
He was a stone cold liberal, a mile to the left of both Kerry and Bush.
JFK is the most overrated president in American history, remembered chiefly for the Cuban nuclear crisis and getting shot.
What nobody mentions of course, is that the Bay of Pigs and similar attempts at invading Cuba launched by JFK just happened to give Castro very good reasons to call for Russia’s nuclear help.
Kennedy is also the chief originator to the fiasco in Vietnam.
Further his nepotism with his brother, who was not qualified for his position under Kennedy, sent some very poor signals for the future of the American state.
Truman, in his day would be called a conservative, however his views on religion would make him a liberal today.
August 6th, 2007 at 12:26 pmFranklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John F. Kennedy were all more conservative, using today’s definition, than either George W. Bush or John Kerry. Given the choice, I would have voted for either of the three aformentioned rather than either of the two aftermentioned. However, we must deal with reality today, rather than “what if’s.â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 11:23 am
Franklin D. Roosevelt more conservative than Dumbya Bush, eh?! Now that is really funny, big foot-in-the-mouth. As Bruce Gorton already pointed out in the previous post (#266), FDR was responsible for most of the social programs, such as Social Security, that today’s neoCONs lament so much. You must have been living on another planet if you’ve never heard, for one, how the neoCONs want to do away with or drastically change Social Security.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:11 pmFDR, unlike George Bush, also knew how to run a war. Shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor, his administration set up intensive Japanese language schools, mostly on military bases, to increase the number of intelligence officers capable of interpreting that language. Although Japanese, like Arabic, is a difficult language with an entirely different writing script, the best of the students became capable even of cracking military codes within a few years. By contrast, almost 6 years after 9/11 (more time than the American participation in WWII), the US is still sorely lacking in interpreters of Arabic, Persian, Urdu, and other languages used in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan. And to be back on thread, the warrantless wiretapping you so strongly support won’t do much good without the means to render the intercepted calls/e-mails into English promptly.
God bless spying, torture, invasion, occupation, slavery, theocracy, Bohemian Grove, Pat Tillman assassinating Neo-Nazis.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:48 pmoh, ah False Flag Terror attacks like that described in Operation Northwoods.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:49 pmThe Grand Jury could use your assistance: Gathering evidence Member of Congress vioalted their oath on this FISA bill.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:29 pm