Perino: FISA Bill Simply ‘Returns Law To Its Original Intent’
Perino: FISA Bill Simply ‘Returns Law To Its Original Intent’
Yesterday, President Bush signed into law an expansion of his domestic spying powers, legislation that the Washington Post called “as reckless as it was unnecessary.” White House spokeswoman Dana Perino appeared on Fox and Friends this morning to defend the new law, saying it was the “bare minimum of what Mike McConnell, the DNI, said he needed.”
She added, “And I see today that some people are saying that this is a wild expansion of powers for the president. That could not be further from the truth. Only in a Democratic spin room could they come up with expansion of powers when you have to — when what we actually did was return the law to its original intent.” Watch it:
Perino is the one who has been spending too much time in the spin room. The White House-backed legislation goes far beyond the original intent of FISA. It gives Gonzales “sole authority” to spy on people “reasonably believed to be outside the United States.” Instead of the FISA court overseeing the program and ensuring the protection of Americans’ civil liberties, Gonzales and McConnell have full responsibility. The role of of the court is nothing more than a “rubber stamp.”
Additionally, the White House rejected a narrower bill agreed to by both McConnell and the congressional leadership, which contained “three points” McConnell said the Bush administration “needed.” “We had an agreement with DNI McConnell,” said Stacey Bernards, spokeswoman for House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD), “and then the White House quashed the agreement.”
Read more about FISA in today’s Progress Report, and sign up to receive it in your inbox each day HERE.
Transcript:
KILMEADE: Hey, Dana, first off, why do you think both sides came together right now when you guys can’t get together on anything up until now?
PERINO: Well, I think it’s because people finally understood that the director of national intelligence was extremely serious when he said, I have to have this.
Now, remember, this is a bare minimum of what Mike McConnell, the DNI, said he needed. And it was a real fight with the Democrats to get them to pull it across the line. We did have some help from some senators, like Senator Mikulski and Senator Feinstein to help pull this across the line, but it was down to the wire. And the work isn’t done yet. One of the things the president said yesterday is, When you come back in September, we’ve got more work to do. This law needs to be further modernized and we need to provide liability protection for companies who are alleged to have helped the United States after the 9/11 attacks.
CARLSON: Dana, that was my question, because it’s being called modernizing the law. How is it different from what FISA was before? And what changes are still needed?
PERINO: I think that what happened is in 1978 no one could have imagined that we would all have — be using cell phones and the Internet like we are today. And so, over time, we all start using this technology but the laws haven’t kept up-to-date. And so, we just needed to — to change that definition.
And I see today that some people are saying that this is a wild expansion of powers for the president. That could not be further from the truth. Only in a Democratic spin room could they come up with expansion of powers when you have to — when what we actually did was return the law to its original intent, which was you don’t need a warrant to go after foreigners you reasonably believe to be overseas.
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Exactly. Thanks, Dana!!! You have a beautiful soul!!!
August 6th, 2007 at 1:51 pmThat pesky failure of imagination….again…
God, that woman is DUMB!!
August 6th, 2007 at 1:52 pmThe Dems sent him the bill.
TRAITORS!!!!
Why do the democrats hate freedom?
August 6th, 2007 at 1:54 pmI told you schmucks about Feinstein.
August 6th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThanks for the insight, Fascist Barbie. Do us all a favor and go get shrink-wrapped!
August 6th, 2007 at 1:58 pmWow, now that Bush has super-mega-special powers, I just know he’ll find Osama any day now!
August 6th, 2007 at 1:59 pm.
Sad, sad moment for our republic.
We expect that Republicans will seek to impose their authoriatarian vision of government on the rest of us.
We depended on Democrats to resist. They failed. We’re f*cked.
August 6th, 2007 at 1:59 pmFascist dems are about totalitarian gov but you all are so busy hating repugs you dont see it.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:00 pmTest test
August 6th, 2007 at 2:01 pmHow about you, fat-boy?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:01 pmGood-bye civil liberties.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:01 pmI’ll miss you. You’ll won’t be forgotten.
Here’s the other side of the story:
And here’s the other side of the story:
“1. Despite the amount of false propaganda spread by the Republican Party, our nation does in fact have dangerous enemies. The terrorist threat is very real, though it is also very different from the way the Republicans, and in particular the administration of George W. Bush, have described it.
2. FISA has needed an overhaul for many years now. Be thankful that it will be Democrats that will rewrite this bill instead of the Republicans. If Republicans rewrote this bill most Americans would end up being implanted with microchips to monitor their private thoughts.
3. FISA is broken and the George W. Bush broke it. Because Bush and his cronies pushed the exisiting law too far, they ended up losing a court case and severely damaged our ability to obtain intelligence. This was the result of sloppiness and a total disregard for the rule of law on the part of the Republicans.
4. It will take time to rewrite FISA, and in the meantime we needed some kind of temporary legislation to buy time for Congress to work on a new version of FISA. The bills Jim Webb voted for provide for this temporary bridge.
5. We may need another temporary extension of FISA, lasting until the end of the Bush administration. When this law is rewritten it needs to be rewritten by
August 6th, 2007 at 2:02 pmDemocratic-dominated Congress and signed off on by a Democratic President. Any rewrite of this law under the current administration would bear the unholy
fingerprints of Bush, Cheney and Gonzales–and in consequence would be deeply
flawed from its outset.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/5/124531/4040
Police detectives worked the case for years, following leads, combing through evidence and amassing a 600-page investigative report. But they had no suspect until 2004.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:03 pmComment by GitMORules’ Mother — August 6, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
You’re right, it’s great that the Dems are going to write the bill…
you know… on account of them being VASTLY different from the Republicans!!!!!!!!
HEyOOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dems and Reps = NEOCONS!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pmPerino tilts her head when she yaps…….just like my dog.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pmDoes someone have the list of who voted for this?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pmPyrrho thinks that Dana has more than just a beautiful “soul” if you know what I mean.
He thinks Tony Snow is a hunk but he likes girls too, and Dana is just his type — cute and blond, fascist yet non-threatening all at the same time. He sometimes gunks up his keyboard watching her on YouTube. He thinks no one knows.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pmI demand that my government listen to every phone call I make, read and file every e-mail I send, study every post I type……I demand my innocence be public record.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:07 pmComment by GitMORules’ Mother — August 6, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Nice spin. No matter how you slice this it is another of big brothers (AKA Democrats big government) chipping away at our civil liberties.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:07 pmOkay, so I guess the Bu**sh** administration, a group that will not testify before Congress in public, on the record and under oath, feels that if Americans are doing nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear from oversight…
What’s wrong with this picture?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:09 pmTP sure does S-U-C-K now!!!!!
They are CENSORING EVERYTHING!!!!
They are LOOSERS!!!!!
I used to like them, but now they are nothing but another arm of the propaganda machine…..
So sad….
August 6th, 2007 at 2:09 pmSo here we have another case of the Democrats and Republicans playing good cop/bad cop to sell us all down the river and further shape our no-longer great country into the monarchy they’ve always wanted.
How else to explain why the king and his court do as they please, and the Democrats in Congress just sit in their corners and meekly say, “Okay”. No matter how much they bluster and sputter, they sell us out every time.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:10 pmNice spin. No matter how you slice this it is another of big brothers (AKA Democrats big government) chipping away at our civil liberties.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
How so Mr. Troll? This is the law Bush and his administration wanted. They were angered, that the changes weren’t being made to suit what they wanted, now they have it. How are the dems chipping away at your civil liberties, if they are following the guide lines set by the Bush administration?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:10 pmit is another of big brothers (AKA Democrats big government) chipping away at our civil liberties.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Huh? Democrats big government? How f-ing ridiculous can you get?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:10 pmNice spin. No matter how you slice this it is another of big brothers (AKA Democrats big government) chipping away at our civil liberties.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
This is by all acounts simply an extension of the long-term effort of the Republican White House. Were you against THAT effort, too?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:11 pm” “HEyOOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”
August 6th, 2007 at 2:11 pmComment by Pyrrho
.
- hey man, don’t take it out on us if your Mommy left you all day in soiled diapers when you were a baby-
oh we weren’t really using those freedoms anyway, you go on and take that freedom.
we won’t need it in the two family system of bush and clinton.
everything is going to be great!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:11 pmI demand my innocence be public record.
Comment by Zed Lefflin — August 6, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Then start using your real name and home address when you post. That s/b easy enough, Zed…
August 6th, 2007 at 2:12 pmso only in the “democratic spin room” was the hypothesis proposed that bush has severley expanded presidential power?
can perino actually claim that she knows anything about either law or the constitution?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:13 pmWhat would you recommend for similar situations?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThis is the law Bush and his administration wanted.
Comment by Krazny — August 6, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Well if the dems are going to give Bush what he wants why were they elected?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:14 pmAh, the other side of the question!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pmand does anyone actually buy the claim that cellular technology has caused the need for oversight-less AND warrentless spying?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pmcan perino actually claim that she knows anything about either law or the constitution?
Comment by darla — August 6, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
But Dana has such a peraly white smile. What more do you want?
Why does Mr Tooth Decay hate America so?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:16 pmso they think we’re all stupid, right? I guess some people fall for these lies.
The 4th amendment is quite clear, and even FISA is in direct violation to it. Congress, the Bush administration and the courts are all working together on this to violate our rights….and sadly, it’s been like this for quite some time.
Some reading:
“The Federal Assault on our Freedoms”
August 6th, 2007 at 2:16 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/the_federal_assault_on_our_freedoms
#
and does anyone actually buy the claim that cellular technology has caused the need for oversight-less AND warrentless spying?
Comment by darla — August 6, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
I haven’t heard ONE rational comment anywhere as to why the Admin needs to avoid warrants, especially when they have 2 weeks to go file after the fact. NOT ONE!!!!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pmWell if the dems are going to give Bush what he wants why were they elected?
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
This is a good question, I am pissed as hell at all of the rolling over, and capitulation the dems have given to Bush. He is weak and ineffectual, and should be treated as such.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pmthis bill did not need to be brought to the floor at this time. W had all but said that he broke the law and would continue to do so. this just makes it legal, both now and in the future but also in the past. That, my friends, is the travesty. Does anyone really know what occurred in the past? Seems Gonzo and FBI couldn’t agree on what each other was talking about.
there is no justification for the Democratic leadership bringing this matter to the floor at this time. there is no justification for it having the audacity to pass it on a saturday so that they could take their break. W threatened, Congress walked the plank. there is simply no justification for this having happened.
None, nada, zilch. the more you try to justify, the worse it gets.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pmnever in my life would i have thought that this country would evolve into one with an authoritarian, even nearly fascistic, president.
since when do we have a press secretary who openly and brazenly insults anyone who disagrees with her master?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:18 pmThis is by all acounts simply an extension of the long-term effort of the Republican White House.
Comment by spit take — August 6, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
So the dems have joined forces with the Bush cabal.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:18 pmWhatever Bushco. says is fine with me
August 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmWhatever Bushco. says is fine with me
Whatever Bushco. says is fine with me
Whatever Bushco. says is fine with me
A circuit is a circuit is a circuit. A conversation is a conversation is a conversation.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmIt doesn’t matter if it is two copper wires ‘POTS’, plain old telephone service, a drop off a serial optic network, ‘SONET’ or voice over Internet protocol, VOIP transmitted over all technologies.
The issue is monitoring communications not the under lying technology.
yeah, exactly republic. what if the democrats simply said, “ok, you don’t need a warrant ahead of time, but we need to know exactly what you’re doing, on paper, at least 2 weeks after. a open, public paper trail.”
August 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmThe hell thinkprogress is censuring comments now. Looks like you libs cant stand letting the other site talk!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pmnever in my life would i have thought that this country would evolve into one with an authoritarian, even nearly fascistic, president.
Comment by darla — August 6, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
I did. I’ve been worrying about it for years. Seems to be coming true.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pm“Only in a Democratic spin room could they come up with expansion of powers when you have to…”
August 6th, 2007 at 2:20 pmWhere is the Democratic spin room?
Do they offer tours?
“Then start using your real name and home address when you post. That s/b easy enough, Zed…”
Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:21 pmIf the Republicans were seriously interested in reducing the size of government, they would do away with the legislative and judicial branches altogether.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:21 pmLet’s make sure that people like the “Troll” don’t control the discussion around here. Let’s just keep in mind the reality of this vote.
ALL Repubs voted for this. A solid majority of Dems voted against this. The Dems who voted for it obviously did so to take away a potential strategy by republicans which would have been implemented if we suffer another terrorist attack in the next couple months. We all know what the strategy would have been. The attack happens and Bush and his friends in media immediately begin slamming Dems for not taking the threat seriously enough. Bush would have announced that if Dems had given him the power, the attack could have been averted.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:22 pmDuring the very time Congress was debating codifying President Bush’s lawbreaking by revising FISA, Alberto Gonzales’ DOJ was raiding the home of a former Justice official to identify the person who first brought the illicit program to light.
For the disturbing details of selective retribution by the White House, see:
August 6th, 2007 at 2:22 pm“Payback Time: FBI Raids Home of Suspected NSA Leaker.”
How do we know there isn’t a “Signing Statement” that isn’t marked “Top Secret” stating that the law gives the emperor ultimate power ?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:23 pmThose who hate our freedoms are winning the GWOT.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:23 pmBingo! Worth a re-post, Col. Jack:
Let’s make sure that people like the “Troll†don’t control the discussion around here. Let’s just keep in mind the reality of this vote.
ALL Repubs voted for this. A solid majority of Dems voted against this. The Dems who voted for it obviously did so to take away a potential strategy by republicans which would have been implemented if we suffer another terrorist attack in the next couple months. We all know what the strategy would have been. The attack happens and Bush and his friends in media immediately begin slamming Dems for not taking the threat seriously enough. Bush would have announced that if Dems had given him the power, the attack could have been averted.
Remember, friends, you need to duck when that propaganda gets catapulted.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:24 pmThe attack happens and Bush and his friends in media immediately begin slamming Dems for not taking the threat seriously enough. Bush would have announced that if Dems had given him the power, the attack could have been averted.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
____________
So let’s just trim a few edges off the Bill of Rights so we don’t get “slammed”.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:26 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
So its ok with you “progressives” to violate civil liberties for political purposes.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:28 pm“So let’s just trim a few edges off the Bill of Rights so we don’t get “slammedâ€.
Comment by Typical Defeatocrat — August 6, 2007 @ 2:26 pm”
Correct!!!!
Either we stand up for what we believe, or we will soon parish as a Republic!!!!
If the current situation is not repaired within the next year, then America will not be able to recover from this without a CIVILIAN overthrow…..
August 6th, 2007 at 2:28 pmZed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
“This has been the weidest year of my life, baby…”
August 6th, 2007 at 2:30 pmEither we stand up for what we believe, or we will soon parish as a Republic!!!!
Comment by RemoveBush — August 6, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
My point exactly!!! We cannot let me perish!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:31 pmBushCo = Good 4 Amerigo
August 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pmSo its ok with you “progressives†to violate civil liberties for political purposes.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Let’s see… Dems block the bill, they’re supporting the terra-ists. Dems support the bill, they’re violating civil liberties. Bush wanted the bill… he actually wanted more… was Bush violating civil liberties?
Please clarify…
August 6th, 2007 at 2:33 pmNice try, Troll. Not condoning it, just shedding light on the reality. The Repulsives own this shite. Enjoy the taste of it.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:33 pm#
BushCo = Good 4 Amerigo
Comment by Pyrrho — August 6, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Meaningless comment.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:34 pmThis is by all acounts simply an extension of the long-term effort of the Republican White House.
Comment by spit take — August 6, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
So the dems have joined forces with the Bush cabal.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
I notice you quote most of my post but leave out the important question for you:
Were you against THAT effort, too?
Care to answer?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:34 pmThe Dems who voted for it obviously did so to take away a potential strategy by republicans which would have been implemented if we suffer another terrorist attack in the next couple months.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Such patriotism.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:34 pm… It gives Gonzales “sole authority†to spy on people …
probably will make it easier to impeach him now, eh?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:34 pmmaybe it was a trade… think?
….
The hell thinkprogress is censuring comments now. Looks like you libs cant stand letting the other site talk!
Comment by GitMORules!!!!!!!! — August 6, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
You might have something there, GMR. Judging by the quality of right-wing arguments posted here, it seems likely that TP censors any right-wing comments that make sense and leaves the others alone.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:36 pmHow does BushCo find these people (Snow-job and Little Katie Couric Perino) that can lie on cue and never seem to be upset about it? At least Gonzo looks like he swallowed the monkey every time he tries to explain his “position” and lies through his teeth.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:36 pm“The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!” Cried Chicken Little.
Enough already. I want you to tell me what civil rights YOU have lost.
I don’t want theory, I don’t wan’t what might happen. I don’t want hysteria. I wan’t details about how this is going to affect you, today, here and now.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:37 pmPerino: FISA Bill Simply ‘Returns Law To Its Original Intent’
Really Dana , you empty-headed bim ?
The original intent of FISA was to allow Chimpy the Wonder Monkey , the worst president in US history , to do as he pleases ?
Amazing , a life-long loser and utter failure , should be given powers he never earned nor merits ?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:37 pmBushCo = Good 4 Amerigo
Comment by Pyrrho
Pyrrho likes to eat the sleepies from his dog’s eyes.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:37 pmPyrrho likes to eat the sleepies from his dog’s eyes.
Comment by dlet — August 6, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
This is true. I’ve seen him do it.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:39 pm“The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!†Cried Chicken Little.
Enough already. I want you to tell me what civil rights YOU have lost.
I don’t want theory, I don’t wan’t what might happen. I don’t want hysteria. I wan’t details about how this is going to affect you, today, here and now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
I want you to either explain how and/or why any president , but most especially this one , the worst and most dishonest in US history , deserves any benefit of any doubt and a mind-boggling increase of his powers ………Or shut the the hell up.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:39 pmCare to answer?
Comment by spit take — August 6, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
Bush did what he did however believing it was right and that it was his constitutional duty to do it. The dems have authorized to continue it for political reasons and that disgusts me and most people.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pmI wan’t details about how this is going to affect you, today, here and now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
No one here has to justify anything to you, personally, so back to puffing on your cigar.
You and Rush – always sucking on something big, black, and stiff.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pm““Only in a Democratic spin room could they come up with expansion of powers when you have to…â€
Where is the Democratic spin room?
Do they offer tours?
Comment by dim wit — August 6, 2007 @ 2:20 pm”
Call up George Soros and see if he will give you a tour of his office. But be careful, Alberto Gonzales will be listening.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:40 pmRipper, the vast majority of the dems who voted for it were Blue Dogs.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:42 pmThey more likely agreed with the changes.
Call up George Soros and see if he will give you a tour of his office. But be careful, Alberto Gonzales will be listening.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Yet another irrational comment form the man who claims to know everything but really knows nothing.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:42 pmBush did what he did however believing it was right and that it was his constitutional duty to do it. The dems have authorized to continue it for political reasons and that disgusts me and most people.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Whatever the Dems reasons were, you do not have access to Bush’s thoughts. This is a flase statement and needs to be labled as such.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:43 pm“Bush [...] and [...] the dems [...] disgust me and most people.” – Troll (edited for clarity)
Yeah, I’m on board with that.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:44 pmTroll: “So its ok with you “progressives†to violate civil liberties for political purposes.”
No, dumbass. Evidently, u dont reed tu guud.
I said the solid majority of Dems didn’t vote for this bill. Progressives didn’t vote for it. Centrist Dems voted for it to defuse a possible political plan by repubs to cynically use a potential attack for political gain.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:45 pm“I don’t want theory, I don’t wan’t what might happen. I don’t want hysteria. I wan’t details about how this is going to affect you, today, here and now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 2:37 pm”
I sited several Constitutional Ammendments, but TP feels that providing FACTS is wrong so the refuse to admit the post.
See the Constitution for your answer as the following Admmendments have been broken by this Administration and supports what you are asking.
Ammendment #1
Ammendment #4
Ammendment #6
Ammendment #8
One final comment…..
TP YOU SUCK!!!!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:47 pmBush did what he did however believing it was right and that it was his constitutional duty to do it. The dems have authorized to continue it for political reasons and that disgusts me and most people.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
I figured that would be your answer.
Bush does it = Good
Dems do it = Bad
If this bill curtails civil rights (which I believe it does) why is it okay if Bush does it, just because he believes he was doing what’s right? It’s still curtailing civil rights. There’s every bit as good a chance that Dems voted for this bill believing it was right.
Typical double standard. Also known as IOKIYAR.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:47 pmWhatever the Dems reasons were, you do not have access to Bush’s thoughts. This is a flase statement and needs to be labled as such.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 6, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
“you do not have access to Bush’s thoughts. This is a flase statement and needs to be labled as such.”
Can we quote you on this in the future?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:51 pmTroll: “So its ok with you “progressives†to violate civil liberties for political purposes.†– Troll
No, dumbass. Evidently, u dont reed tu guud. – Col. Jack
Forgive him, Colonel. Like most trolls, he thinks “progressives” = “Democrats”, missing the point that voting for a Democrat is merely the least obnoxious of the most typical options.
For example, I would choose to vote for a turnip if the only viable alternative was George Bush. Although I find that turnips are among the least edible of vegetables, at least they don’t sniff and then toss their own feces.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:53 pmWhat’s up, r?!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:53 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
So do you condem the democrats who voted for this for political purposes?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:54 pmTroll: “The dems have authorized to continue it for political reasons and that disgusts me and most people.”
No, that’s just wrong. All republicans and a minority of moderate democrats have authorized this.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pmWhere did that super cap comment go? It was up for a minute.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:55 pmMy posts are dissapearing again, it’s hard to hold a debate or conversation this way…
Maybe I’ll be back when “Big Brother (And the Holding Company?)” isn’t watching…
August 6th, 2007 at 2:56 pmHey, where did my post go?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmWhatever the Dems reasons were, you do not have access to Bush’s thoughts. This is a flase statement and needs to be labled as such.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 6, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
“you do not have access to Bush’s thoughts. This is a flase statement and needs to be labled as such.â€
Can we quote you on this in the future?
Comment by r — August 6, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
You believe someone that responded with “Catching a 10-pound fish” to the question of the best moment during his presidency , has any tangible thought(s) , whatsoever ; not to mention working brain cells ?
Get a clue……………..
August 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmHey, where did my post go?
Comment by Dennis the Democrat Dhimmi
I saw it. It was great, where did it go?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
So do you condem the allegedly “moderate” democrats who voted for this for political purposes?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmMy posts are dissapearing again, it’s hard to hold a debate or conversation this way…
Maybe I’ll be back when “Big Brother (And the Holding Company?)†isn’t watching…
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 6, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
I’m sure you will be desperately missed ……….As much as jock itch is.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pmSad, sad moment for our republic.
Comment by spit take — August 6, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
Hey, I had nothing to do w/ this!
August 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pm“So do you condem the democrats who voted for this for political purposes?” – Troll
Have you stopped molesting your children?
August 6th, 2007 at 2:58 pmGorn molests his children?
August 6th, 2007 at 3:00 pmCan we quote you on this in the future?
Comment by r — August 6, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Sure, feel free to. I get excited, I misspell a word. Other than that, I can’t imagine what’s not true or ridiculous in there.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:00 pmComment by Dennis the Democrat Dhimmi
I saw it. It was great, where did it go?
Comment by r — August 6, 2007 @ 2:57
Only troll who ever used the word dhimmi here was The Joker…
August 6th, 2007 at 3:01 pmTroll molests his children AND is unable to comprehend English dialog.
Can’t wait to see you on To Catch a Predator, Troll.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pmI saw it. It was great, where did it go?
Comment by r — August 6, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I copied to a “word” file, I know DDD would want me to tell the TRUTH, no matter what!
August 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pmIf those were the “moderate” democrats I would hate to see what the extreme left has in store for us.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pm#
If those were the “moderate†democrats I would hate to see what the extreme left has in store for us.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Still can’t be as bad as what the extreme right wants…
August 6th, 2007 at 3:04 pmSo W thought what he was doing was right (i won’t even comment on the “he thought it was constitutional” part, which is ridiculous), so that makes it ok, huh? Hmmmm . . . let’s think about this, what other types of actions can this argument fit in with:
1. breaking any other federal, state or local law
2. past slavery
2. past, present and future religious intolerance (even if your religion teaches otherwise)
3. some theft in certain circumstances
4. our government arming / making deals with drug dealers, arms dealers, tyrants, dictators, terrorists
5. detaining you indefinitely because you might cause problems later (especially if your neighbor sells you in response to a call for traitors with promises of for a ransom)
shit, this is just off the top of my head. W did it because it was easier to do it this way, than to do the hard work the 9 months between him taking the oath and 9/11. Congress just caved because it’s the easiest way to get home for those summer BBQs and fundraisers. Most of us will suck it down like fast-food dining because it’s easier than doing the right thing.
Taking the easy way out again.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:07 pmI thought the extreme right had been having its way all along? Things are not so bad exept for the dems passing legislation legalising “domestic” spying. Even the Repugs did not pass that when they were in charge.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:07 pm#
If those were the “moderate†democrats I would hate to see what the extreme left has in store for us.
Comment by Troll
Ah, if only there were some “extreme left” Democrats in Congress. Maybe after 2008.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:08 pmtest
August 6th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThats legalizing sorry.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:09 pmI thought the extreme right had been having its way all along? Things are not so bad exept for the dems passing legislation legalising “domestic†spying. Even the Repugs did not pass that when they were in charge.
Comment by Troll
They didn’t need to, fool. Bush was busily violating the law until he got caught at it and had to rewrite the law to fit the violations.
Pretty funny, you dancing like mad to avoid admitting this is entirely a Republic effort, top to bottom.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:09 pm“If those were the “moderate†democrats I would hate to see what the extreme left has in store for us.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:02 pm”
How’s about GitMo for the rest of your life. We’ll just advertise it as ClubMed in Cuba and you’ll eat it up good.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pmOnly troll who ever used the word dhimmi here was The Joker…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
His pet parrot, Mr PeePee used it. I can understand why you might not remember, since Mr PeePee’s posts are mindless repetition and as memorable as a really squeaky fart.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:11 pmI find it hard to believe that from 1945 to 2007 we were not spying on Russians… which is what they are saying… the law had to be changed so they could spy on foreigners…
We are supposed to believe them?
August 6th, 2007 at 3:14 pmComment by gummitch — August 6, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
A republican effort the dems supported. Dance around that.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:16 pmI can understand why you might not remember, since Mr PeePee’s posts are mindless repetition and as memorable as a really squeaky fart.
Comment by gummitch — August 6, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
I’ve experienced several squeaky farts that were far more memorable (and more socially redeeming, BTW) than any of Mr. Pee’s comments.
Correction: I do recall that one Mr. Pee comment when he said Saudis weren’t Muslims. So that was memorable.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:17 pmThe only thing worse than listning to Snowjob is listening to Perino. Someone should give her lessons on how to lie ’cause she sucks at it.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:18 pmCorrection: I do recall that one Mr. Pee comment when he said Saudis weren’t Muslims. So that was memorable.
Comment by mikey r — August 6, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
At this point, it’s Number 1 on the all-time Troll list of dumb comments. It will be hard to top.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:19 pmSo there is life after cheerleading – I’m so happy to learn all that talent hasn’t been wasted.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:19 pmA republican effort some dems supported. Dance around that.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Fixed it for you. Keep dancing. Dancing trolls are very entertaining, in a mindless fashion.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:20 pmA republican effort the dems supported. Dance around that.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
The only one doing any dancing is you. Every progressive poster here recognizes that thius bill would not have passed without some Democratic support, and we’re dismayed.
YOU on the other hand, have tried to portray this as a DEMOCRATIC assault on civil liberties. That’s bullsh!t.
And remember — you can’t spell “Bullsh!t” with B-U-S-H!
August 6th, 2007 at 3:21 pm-test-
August 6th, 2007 at 3:22 pm-test-
Comment by DDD
P!ss off, PeePee.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:22 pmMy name is Dennis.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:23 pmMy bad on #115 — should be:
You can’t spell “Bullsh!t” withOUT B-U-S-H!
August 6th, 2007 at 3:24 pmDana just cracks me up.
She should be grateful that the Congress just rolled over and mde the president legal.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:24 pmMy name is Dennis.
Comment by DDD — August 6, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
Hmm… “Dennis President”… nope, doesn’t really work for me. I suggest you try another name. Maybe something from ancient Greece. That would be cool. NOT.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:26 pmComment by gummitch — August 6, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
This could not have passed without the dems. Do you condemn the democrats who supported it?
August 6th, 2007 at 3:28 pmI put a lot of thought in my response to O. Bigfoot. Did it go through?
August 6th, 2007 at 3:28 pmJust what we need, first a idiot like Bush looking in my window, then Hillary the shrew peeking at my a$$ bopping up and down. When Hill’s in charge this bill is gonna be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Move off the grid.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:32 pmThis could not have passed without the dems. Do you condemn the democrats who supported it?
Comment by Troll
If they cant prove why we could not spy on foreigners until this bill was passed then yes I condemn them.
This bill was an attempt to legalize past illegality by the White House… my guess as to why some democrats when along is because they want this power for themselves in 2009 and beyond… This whole thing is going to keep snowballing just like in destroyed nations of the past… Left takes too much power then the Right one ups them … then the Left one ups them… before long we got a military dictatorship and christians are being fed to lions…
The Fed has gone too far. The power to take our freedoms lies in the hands of the Fed not Osama… Osama can only dream of having the tools the Fed gives itself even though it is forbidden in the Constitution.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:33 pmI put a lot of thought in my response to O. Bigfoot. Did it go through?
Comment by DDD — August 6, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
“I put a lot of thought” — relatively speaking, I presume…
August 6th, 2007 at 3:36 pmhello
August 6th, 2007 at 3:36 pmdamn it!
August 6th, 2007 at 3:37 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 6, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
God Bless you Gerald,
They are of the same cloth. Both parties are destroying us in their power grabs. We the people suffer. The federal gov has become so powerful (while we fall victim to the smoke and mirrors charade) that if we do not elect leaders from any party commited to smaller federal gov we will truly be a fascist nation and soon.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:41 pmBLUE DOGS DAMAGE DEMOCRACY
Monday 6th of August 2007
by Jay Randal
Pres. Bush’s Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell, according to an article by Susan Crabtree “Spy chief courts Blue Dogs for FISA law overhaul” on 2nd of August 2007, met 33 Blue Dog Democrats at a secure location on Tuesday July 31st to convince them to vote for the ‘Protect America Act’ override of FISA.
On Saturday night, 4th of August, 26 of 33 Blue Dogs voted Yeas to override FISA statute to allow wiretaps of anybody the Bush Regime decides might/perhaps be a terrorist, or is just a trouble-maker Bush opponent.
The Blue Dogs cut a back-room deal with McConnell, and stabbed the Democratic party membership in the back, so Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi must explain that she knew about this or punish Blue Dogs.
Democrats nationwide are enraged at the 16 Senators who voted for the bill, and are furious at the 41 House members too, but the Blue Dogs have betrayed us all!
(Jay Randal, poltical activist and writer in Georgia, USA.)
PS: Demand an investigation of the treachery of Blue Dogs.)
August 6th, 2007 at 3:44 pmJosephine Goebbels
August 6th, 2007 at 3:47 pmJust a friendly reminder folks the BLUE DOGS are DEMOCRATS. And yes investigate since thats about all the dems are capable of doing they can at least be bipartisan and investigate their own. Better yet censure them.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:53 pm#
Just a friendly reminder folks the BLUE DOGS are DEMOCRATS. And yes investigate since thats about all the dems are capable of doing they can at least be bipartisan and investigate their own. Better yet censure them.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
Meaningless comment.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:57 pmMeaningless comment.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 6, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Meaningless comment.
August 6th, 2007 at 3:59 pmHere is a link to article on Blue Dogs betraying Democratic party:
http://thehill.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=...
I hope this link is viable and not blocked.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:01 pmGo to thehill.com to bring up article, since link I posted is blocked.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:03 pmMeaningless comment.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Geez, now I feel like I’m dealing w/ my little brother.
Troll is a stinky head.
No he’s not.
Yes, he’s not.
No, he is…
Haha got ya!
August 6th, 2007 at 4:03 pmSo tell why it is meaningless and act like you are at least a little educated.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:08 pmCol Ripper posted a very good analysis of the vote earlier today on one of these threads. Others have pointed out that SOME of the Dems voted.
This is a truly complicated, ugly situation, any YOUR comments gloss over all the complexities and reduce it to a simplisitc sound byte that “sounds” clever to you.
Bet good money I’d clean your clock on an IQ test.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pmSo tell why it is meaningless and act like you are at least a little educated.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Mind if I handle this one, TRoS?
Your comment was meaningless because it added nothing to the conversation, used sarcasm to make a vague point and used it badly, and came from a troll already known to resist the constraints of conventional logic and reality.
Does that about cover it?
August 6th, 2007 at 4:15 pmDoes that about cover it?
Comment by mikey r — August 6, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Not a problem, mikey r. I appreciate it! Good reply too, but probably lost on a troll.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:18 pmMickey
Sorry the conventional logic and reality of TP toadys doesn’t cut it in the real world.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:18 pmSo, late Friday everyone in DC suddenly realized that FISA was broken and required an immediate, urgent FIX. JUST FIX IT NOW!!!!! No a moment to lose . . . not a moment to think . . . barely time to breathe . . . Hurry scurry . . . oooh . . . thank God we dodged that bullet . . . and now we’re off for vacation! Ahhh.
What the heck does Congress do all day? FISA didn’t break overnight. The need for a fix has been apparent for years. The only cause for urgency is that the big bad wolf lost a court case, exposing its criminal conduct, and saw an opportunity to spin the flock of sheep that is Congress into a tizzy run amok and shephard thru this POS legislation.
Next day . . . the sheep are shaking their heads and asking what happened? Hopefully, as they vacation among the people, they’ll find Americans more feral than the big bad wolf . . . cowards.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:19 pmObviously Stupid could not handle it himself.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:19 pmClarification for my post 130: There are a total of 47 Blue Dog Democrats in the House of Representatives. Article I refer to is unclear exactly how many secretly met with McConnell. 33 at least attended, because they forwarded a letter expressing desire to overhaul FISA to Michael. Of those 33 who co-signed the letter, 26 voted Yeas on Saturday 4th of August 07.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:21 pmNot a problem, mikey r. I appreciate it! Good reply too, but probably lost on a troll.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 6, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Your case in point:
Sorry the conventional logic and reality of TP toadys doesn’t cut it in the real world.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Coming from someone whose definition of “factual” varies so far from the commonly accepted definition, you’ll understand if we don’t take your word for what is and is not “conventional logic and reality”, mmKay?
August 6th, 2007 at 4:25 pmSo anyway 33+ Blue Dogs met at a secured location with Michael McConnell prior to voting for the “Protect America Act” override of FISA.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:26 pmSorry the conventional logic and reality of TP toadys doesn’t cut it in the real world.
Comment by Troll
Quite a funny statement coming from a BushCo sheep. Reality and morality have never been a strong suit with your idols in the WH.
As the pendulum begins the swing back to a true balance of power, it Bets uncomfortable for those that are losing the control.
Nut you will learn to enjoy living back in a true democracy again. Adult leadership does have its benefits.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm“You can’t spell “Bullsh!t†withOUT B-U-S-H!” – spit take
Bullsh!t is an anagram for Lit’l Bush
August 6th, 2007 at 4:32 pm#
Obviously Stupid could not handle it himself.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
See, mikey? Told ya both answers would be lost on him. Troll, you’re free to back to “interroagint your hamster”.
Why do hamsters hate America so?
August 6th, 2007 at 4:34 pm#144
August 6th, 2007 at 4:34 pmI tried reading your article, but was distracted by the “50 Most Beautiful People on Capitol Hill”
“Just a friendly reminder folks the BLUE DOGS are DEMOCRATS.” – stupid Troll
Hey Stupid Troll, how many times are you going to toss out the red herring trying to get people to defend Democrats?
We’re interested in what’s good for America and the world, not what’s good for Democrats or any other politicians.
Get it?
August 6th, 2007 at 4:34 pm“Coming from someone whose definition of “factual†varies so far from the commonly accepted definition, …?”
Comment by mikey r — August 6, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
Have some evidence? Anything which I have said that you can use to factually back up your assertion that I have a “definition of “factual†(which) varies so far from the commonly accepted definition.” I dont recall ever having defined factual in my posts. But if you can produce it and prove it varies from the commonly accepted definition I will conceed. If not you conceed that you are an idiot TP toady.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:36 pmWe’re interested in what’s good for America and the world, not what’s good for Democrats or any other politicians.
Get it?
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
That’s another point that’s lost on trolls like, well… Troll.
They think that what’s good for the Republican Party is, by definition Good. So they expect us to leap to the defense of Democrats who betray their country.
Must be disappointing when the bait just sits there in the sun, draws flies and gets rancid.
Hmmm… “Sits there in the sun, draws flies and gets rancid”? Sounds just like most right-wing talking points!
August 6th, 2007 at 4:37 pmWe’re interested in what’s good for America and the world, not what’s good for Democrats or any other politicians.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
Maybe you should tell TP and their toadys this.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:39 pmMaybe you should tell TP and their toadys this.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Siiigh… and we’ll keep telling you, too.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:43 pm“Maybe you should tell TP and their toadys this.” – stupid Troll
Yet another red herring. It’s all you got, I guess.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:44 pmcan anyone read this?
August 6th, 2007 at 4:44 pmHello….
August 6th, 2007 at 4:45 pmHave some evidence? Anything which I have said that you can use to factually back up your assertion that I have a “definition of “factual†(which) varies so far from the commonly accepted definition.†I dont recall ever having defined factual in my posts. But if you can produce it and prove it varies from the commonly accepted definition I will conceed. If not you conceed that you are an idiot TP toady.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
My bad. I confused you with ANOTHER troll who, coincidentally, has the exact same commenting style that you do.
You are the troll who essentially said that if Bush does it, it’s okay, but if Democrats do the exact same thing, they are evil.
I stand corrected. Troll: NOT the one who used “factual” to describe a fanciful opinion. The one who stands behind the principle of IOKIYAR.
I don’t accept your characterization of the consequences of this concession, however. Although it must be recognized that you are an authoritative voice among “idiot TP toadies”.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:48 pmTroll: “Fascist dems are about totalitarian gov but you all are so busy hating repugs you dont see it.”
Troll, a while later: “A republican effort the dems supported. Dance around that.”
Troll, you are so neck-deep in b.s., I’m surprised I or anyone else around here even pays attention to you. You’re not really here to make a cogent argument because your “arguments” change with the wind. You’re simply here to annoy us.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:51 pmMikey
August 6th, 2007 at 4:55 pmI am no toady to TP or Bush. I earlier expressed that I believed Bushs motive in the fisa debate was more honorable than the dems who voted to legalize the “domestic spying” because they, it was argued, did it for pure political reasons.
“I earlier expressed that I believed Bushs motive in the fisa debate was more honorable than the dems who voted to legalize the “domestic spying†because they, it was argued, did it for pure political reasons.” – stupid Troll
… which would have relevance if, and only if, anyone here was defending this alleged motive…
… but nobody has taken your bait…
… so move on…
August 6th, 2007 at 5:00 pmYou’re simply here to annoy us.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Not true Jack,
August 6th, 2007 at 5:01 pmI am here because I love our nation and value the liberties it affords us. I think most of you feel the same. A powerful federal gov is a threat to those liberties. History is replete with examples of good gov gone bad with too much power. I think Dems I do a disservice to their own causes when they insist on granting more power to the fed and I try to bring that to light.
“I think Dems I do a disservice to their own causes when they insist on granting more power to the fed and I try to bring that to light.” – roadkill Troll
Since everyone here would (and has) agreed with that statement, it is proof that either you can’t read or you are lying about your motives.
You need to try harder than this, Roadkill.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:04 pmI’m not arguing with “Troll,” because Troll’s mellon is obviously too thick to let cogent facts get in the way of his silly GOP spin points, but again, a solid majority of Democrats did not vote for this bill. All republicans voted for this bill. Moderate Dems from purple areas were concerned with the possibility that the Repubs, who expect another attack soon, would use a negative vote on this bill to attack them for not protecting us from another attack. The Repub plan has always been to blame Dems for another attack if it happens. We all know this. There is absolutely no point in disputing it.
So, yes, moderate Dems made a political decision, but it is far less cynical than the ultimate Repub plan of blaming them for the next attack because of concern for constitutional guidelines.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:04 pmWhat “sockpuppet” Glenn Greenwald says.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:04 pmTroll: “A powerful federal gov is a threat to those liberties.”
Not necessarily true. Depends on who’s running it. In the 30’s, a powerful federal gov created policies which for decades led to the strongest middle class in our nation’s history.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:07 pmIf today were 1776, Troll and his buddies would be wearing red coats, carrying the Union Jack, and attempting to capture and hang Washington, Madison, Adams, and the rest of the men (and women) who decided to opt out of King George’s tyranny.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:10 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Jack you would never accept that excuse if it was the republicans. TP would post some blog and there would be hundreds of posts condemning the action. All the toadys would scream of the corruption and the doom of our nation. But since its a dem you shake your head and say “oh well”.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:10 pmComment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
gorn,
August 6th, 2007 at 5:16 pmI dont think everyone here does agree. Everyday they call for more and more gov. to combat whatever they think is wrong with the US. I think government has a role in defending our “negative” rights but here the call is for “positive” rights which are alien to the constitution and which create that big gov of which I am concerned.
bluestatedon: “If today were 1776, Troll and his buddies would be wearing red coats, carrying the Union Jack, and attempting to capture and hang Washington, Madison, Adams, and the rest of the men (and women) who decided to opt out of King George’s tyranny.”
Absolutely! They worship authority and defend power. They equate protest with treason and above all, want order and structure. They’re not really cut out for representative democracy. Too cowardly.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:17 pm“Everyday they call for more and more gov. to combat whatever they think is wrong with the US.” – roadkill Troll
Nice way to set up your argument.
It might have a point in a context where it had relevance to the debate. But it has no point in the context of this thread. You’re dying to get people to defend (some) Dems for caving to Big Brother on the eavesdropping bill, BUT NOBODY IS BUYING IT. Now you think you can just flip the argument to the broader “Dems love big government”? Please, get a grip.
Nobody is going to go off chasing your off-topic red herring.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:20 pmComment by bluestatedon — August 6, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
don
August 6th, 2007 at 5:21 pmyou dont know what you’re talking about. I merely try to highlight that Bush and the congress is a result of the power that we the people have allowed the fed gov to usurp. I am very anti-authoritarian but stop short of anarchist. In other words to satisfy your oh so simple black and white mentality the king would have me hanged.
Wow! What a HUGE LIE!
August 6th, 2007 at 5:24 pm“Not necessarily true. Depends on who’s running it. In the 30’s, a powerful federal gov created policies which for decades led to the strongest middle class in our nation’s history.” – Col. Jack
Careful, Colonel. Troll is sucking you away from topic and into his web.
This thread is not about government’s role in anything other than invasion of privacy. He’s just dying to get you to turn it into a debate about the New Deal, or Great Society, or whatever. Don’t take the bait.
I’ll give one back to him: Repukes just love “small government” except when it comes to examining what people do with their private parts, or where it involves their own personal pork and profit, in which case they want all that Chinese money can buy.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:25 pmtroll: “I am very anti-authoritarian but stop short of anarchist.”
Yawn. Dumbass libertarians always say this. They hate all authority except that which is wielded by big corporate oligarchies.
gorn, of course you are right.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:29 pmI merely try to highlight that Bush and the congress is a result of the power that we the people have allowed the fed gov to usurp. I am very anti-authoritarian but stop short of anarchist. In other words to satisfy your oh so simple black and white mentality the king would have me hanged.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
Then why defend Bush’s usurpation of power because his “motives” were pure?
You say you’re “very anti-authoritarian” but you don’t sound very anti-authoritarian.
You come across very much like a typical right-wing troll much more concerned with trapping left-wingers with “gotchas” than with expressing your “anti-authoritarian” leanings.
If you truly WERE anti-authoritarian, you would be outraged at Bush, not at the Dems. After all, they simply gave him what he was asking for. You would be outraged at signing statements. At warrantless wiretapping. At politicizing the DoJ. At canning any internal critics of their war (or any other) policy. But no, your primary target is the moderate and conservative Democrats who joined the GOP to hand over these liberties.
Your outrage rings a little hollow.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:31 pmI wouldn’t expect someone who worships at the alter of libertarian dogma to understand this, but being against American civil government is not the same as being “anti-authoritarian.”
August 6th, 2007 at 5:39 pmhello………
August 6th, 2007 at 5:40 pmHow did 4 posts get added, when my original post was 130 and is now 134 on here?
August 6th, 2007 at 5:49 pmI thought Perino claimed not to be a “legal scholar” or “legal expert…”
August 6th, 2007 at 5:52 pmAccording to crooksandliars.com, Bush wants even more power. He wants liability protection for telecoms who assist in wiretapping. More at their site.
This statement from Bush is unbelievable:
“While I appreciate the leadership it took to pass this bill, we must remember that our work is not done,†the President said in his Sunday statement. “This bill is a temporary, narrowly focused statute to deal with the most immediate shortcomings in the law.â€
Remember, folks, Bush is speaking of the law that he chose to ignore, and now he wants to eliminate the shortcomings….of that law…he chose…to…ignore.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:55 pmI still want to know why Bush has plenty of time to go to the FISA court for a warrant when dealing with a domestic-domestic call, yet there is no time to spare when dealing with an international-domestic call.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:58 pmComment by spit take — August 6, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
Why must my outrage only be directed at who you think it should? Of course I am angry at the republicans but a hundred toadys already spoke to that. They seem to think its simply a matter of what party is in power and the fisa crap helps to make clear that it does not matter a big powerful fed is the culprit.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:02 pmJust a reminder: Most credit card calls, and other solicitation calls, get routed through India, so if you chat with whomever during those calls it allows Bush officials to eavesdrop on the calls according to just passed bill.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:05 pmSee if you reveal your credit card number to the person in India, then Bush officials get all that information.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pmAnd most Americans have no idea they are chatting to foreigners in India, which allows Bush officials to wiretap the calls and record information too.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:12 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 6, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
I am not against American civil government. I am opposed to the federal gov usurping the authority of the states. I am in favor of keeping the limits which the constitution dictates. I am in favor of more local authority which is far more responsive to the will of its constituents.
These are the principles which before the 30s held sway and which since then have slowly been chipped away at which has done damage to our nation.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:32 pmSorry the conventional logic and reality of TP toadys doesn’t cut it in the real world.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
where is that, troll? not Iraq, I’m sure.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:32 pm“These are the principles which before the 30s held sway and which since then have slowly been chipped away at which has done damage to our nation.” – roadkill Troll
Fine, then create your own blog and invite people to it to discuss.
Don’t hijack a thread that has NOTHING to do with your supposed point.
Oh, and you might want to choose a name better than “Troll”, which plainly enough projects your intentions.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWhy must my outrage only be directed at who you think it should? Of course I am angry at the republicans but a hundred toadys already spoke to that. They seem to think its simply a matter of what party is in power and the fisa crap helps to make clear that it does not matter a big powerful fed is the culprit.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
–sigh– my last reply to this never posted, so I’ll try again…
Troll: Why must your outrage be directed at “who I think it should”?
Because we don’t believe you. The response you gave doesn’t ring true to who you claim to be — namely, an “anti-authoritarian”.
“States’ rights” is not the same thing as “anti-authoritarian”. Bush has been the most authoritarian President in a generation. If you truly were anti-authoritarian as you claim, then you would be outraged at all of the excesses that I mentioned. The minority group of conservative Democrats joining the rock-solid Republican caucus to hand the President nearly everything he wanted would have been the latest straw, sure, but it would have been small potatoes.
When asked about your assessment of the President’s long-held position, you defended him as having purer motives than the Democrats.
What kind of anti-authoritarian defends authoritarian acts because they are sincerely pursued?
That’s why we don’t buy your act.
August 6th, 2007 at 6:47 pmComment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
My point has everything to do with this thread. TP has been playing the fisa issue as a republicans are evil for a long time. The facts are that the dems are no better and they proved it on this issue, on the iraq war issue, on the patriot act issue etc etc etc.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:07 pmThe following are Dems who capitulated in the Senate to grant Gonzo the power to tap your cellphone and read your email without a warrant:
Lincoln (D) – DLC
Pryor (D) – DLC
Feinstein (D) – DLC
Salazar (D) – DLC
Carper (D) – DLC
Nelson (D) – DLC
Inouye (D) – DLC
Bayh (D) – DLC
Landrieu (D) – DLC
Mikulski (D)
Klobuchar (D) – new seantor DSCC’s chosen candidate.
McCaskill (D) – new senator Vice-chair of the Third Way
Nelson (D) – DLC
Conrad (D) – DLC
Casey (D) – new senator DSCC chosen candidate
Webb (D) – new senator DSSC chose candidate
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sourcelink:
(scroll down to # 20)
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FYI:
“DLC” stands for those who belong to the Democratic Leadership Concerence (and are therefore closet neocons in my opinion)
“DSCC” syands for members of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, an insider Politial Action Committee.
“THIRD WAY” describes itself as the voice for the “radical center”, and is movement dedicated to creating a society based on Justice, Community and Individual freedom against one that is based on Greed, Globalisation and Tyranny.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:10 pmTroll: “The facts are that the dems are no better and they proved it on this issue…”
Memo to Troll: All republicans voted for this and a majority of dems didn’t vote for this. I know that’s a subtle distinction to someone like you who tends to look at the world like a gradeschooler, but nonetheless, it is a distinction.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:12 pmThe point to #198 is that 11 of the 16 are dyed-in-the-wool DLC’ers.
Go figure.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:14 pmOne Citizen, if “Third Way” politicians are dedicated to individual freedom, why did one of them vote for this bill? It’s not hard to understand why DLC’ers and campaign committee people did, but what’s the Third Way’s excuse? (Note: this is not a hostile question. I simply want to understand the “Third Way” stuff.)
August 6th, 2007 at 7:16 pm“My point has everything to do with this thread. TP has been playing the fisa issue as a republicans are evil for a long time. The facts are that the dems are no better” – roadkill Troll
Oh, BS.
At worst, (some) Dems are reactive to the this authoritarian Administration. You may call some cowardly or ineffective. Fine. But the Administration is the root of the evil. Rather than attack the root (ahem), you choose to forgive the root and attack the reaction.
But your attack is merely a ruse for your supposed true cause, which is to attack policies of past Democratic administrations going back 70+ years.
If the latter is your true cause, it does not belong in this thread. Take it to your own blog. Invite us to the discussion, and perhaps some of us will take the time to visit your blog and shred your arguments to bits over there.
If you continue to post on this thread, it proves only that your real cause is to defend the current authoritarian regime by attacking the opposition. As such, your claim to being in favor of freedom and against authoritarianism is plainly a lie. Nobody is fooled, so why persist?
Do what trolls do. Change your name to something else, and tilt at some windmills on another thread. Maybe you’ll have learned from this beating not to be so easily exposed next time.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:17 pmThe hell thinkprogress is censuring comments now. Looks like you libs cant stand letting the other site talk!
Comment by GitMORules!!!!!!!! — August 6, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
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You’re exactly right.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:36 pmWe all lose posts, Eriugena (??). This server doesn’t discriminate. I’ve lost at least three of them today. If you’ve got anything to say, just say it and quit your whining.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:48 pmThe hell thinkprogress is censuring comments now. Looks like you libs cant stand letting the other site talk!
Comment by GitMORules!!!!!!!! — August 6, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
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You’re exactly right.
Comment by Iohannes Scottus Eriugena — August 6, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
If, as you guys seem to complain, TP (and libs in general) “can’t stand letting the other side talk”, then how do you explain these posts being allowed to remain?
*crickets*
August 6th, 2007 at 7:58 pmMaybe you’ll have learned from this beating not to be so easily exposed next time.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 6, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
Exposed? I call myself TROLL. Exposed?? My point has been to make the central issue the fact that dems voted for this legislation and you toadys have carried my water well. You are funny gorn. IF I was trollish I would have served my purpose well and it would certainly be you who would have recieved the beating and have something to learn for I have occupied a considerable amount of your time and energy as well as the thread. As it is I am a troll of a different nature. A troll who tries not to be trollish but a troll non the less only because I am not a toady and will not carry TPs or the dems water. So I remain Troll. And you are toady. Carry on.
August 6th, 2007 at 8:28 pmTroll = total fugging self-absorbed idiot. End of story.
Whatever your ulterior purpose, you’ve been a total failure. Sorry to break it to you.
August 6th, 2007 at 8:48 pmHow have I been a failure gorn? You are the failure because you have failed in your attempt to pursuede me to stop, while I have achieved my objective. see ya on the next thread.
August 6th, 2007 at 9:08 pmHow have I been a failure gorn? You are the failure because you have failed in your attempt to pursuede me to stop, while I have achieved my objective. see ya on the next thread.
Comment by Troll — August 6, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Insisting doesn’t make it so. Unless your purpose was to demonstrate your inability to reason or your willingness to spout nonsense for the benefit of some bizarre agenda, then you have failed. If your purpose was either of those aims, then you have succeeded admirably.
August 6th, 2007 at 10:19 pmThe Constitution requires warrants and Court supervision. Perino is deluded: This FISA update doesn’t return anything to the Constitution, but ignores the 4th Amendment requirement.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:20 pmPerino looks and sounds like she’s been using a might too much peroxide on her hair…it’s obviously seeped into her brain.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:10 am