Right-Wing Preacher Plans Funeral Protest Against Victims of Minneapolis Bridge Collapse
Right-Wing Preacher Plans Funeral Protest Against Victims of Minneapolis Bridge Collapse
Right-wing preacher Fred Phelps’ “anti-gay hate group Westboro Baptist Church” has traveled the country disrupting military funerals. His cult has picketed dozens of burial services with messages such as “Thank God For AIDS” and “God Hates Fags.” Phelps is once again exploiting calamity and catastrophe to promote his right-wing cause. Minnesota Monitor reports:
The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., plans to stage protests at funerals of victims of the 35W bridge collapse to state that God made the bridge fall because he hates America, and especially Minnesota, because of its tolerance of homosexuality.
Shortly after the bridge’s collapse, the Westboro group put out this release:
In response to the July 2005 London attacks, Phelps posted this release:
Thank God for the bombing of London’s subway today – July 7, 2005 – wherein dozens were killed and hundreds seriously injured. Wish it was many more.
There are only 70 members of the Westboro church, “60 of whom are related to Phelps through blood or marriage or both.”
Phelps’ protests at military funerals forced Congress to pass the Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act in 2006, which “bars protests within 500 feet of a military cemetery from 60 minutes before to 60 minutes after a funeral if those protests involve disruptive noises or other disturbances.” Banned from military funerals, Phelps is excited to be taking his hate agenda to the victims in Minneapolis.
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Minnesota Nice will only extend so far….
August 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmThis guy is not right wing. He is crazy.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmWhy this site provides this miscreants with free publicity is beyond me.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmIm not even sure what to say? I wonder if there on the “terror” watch list
August 7th, 2007 at 12:29 pmPhelps—posterboy for the Far Right
August 7th, 2007 at 12:29 pmHorrifying. I find the level of hate Phelps and his kind carry with them to be incomprehensible. If “the gay” disappeared off the earth tomorrow, they’d find some other reason to spew their filth.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:30 pmYou go, Fred! Show the world the bare nekkid truth of the fundie wordlview that so many of them try to hide behind blow-dried hairstyles and leisure suits.
“Love one another? F*ck that!”
August 7th, 2007 at 12:30 pmThese are my people. Phelps is my left hand man. Repent America!
August 7th, 2007 at 12:31 pmPhelps—posterboy for the Far Right
Comment by . — August 7, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
I think if he weren’t carrying on with this funeral lunacy, the wingnuts would be ok with him.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pmRight Wing?
According to Mother Jones:
Phelps remained prominent in state and local politics, working for years as a major organizer for the state’s Democratic Party. (He still calls himself a Democrat, refusing to change just because his party has.) In 1988, Phelps housed campaign workers for Al Gore’s first presidential run; in 1989, his eldest son, Fred Jr., hosted a fundraiser for Gore’s Senate campaign at his home.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1999/03/lauerman.html
he’s just nuts.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:33 pmWhat an utter hate-filled dirtbag. I mean, thank Cthulhu for free speech and the right to protest, but some people really abuse the privilege.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:33 pmGeez, he’s not the mouthpiece for the right!
August 7th, 2007 at 12:34 pmHe’s a whackjob!
It’s why he has only a few dozen supporters.
This guy is not right wing. He is crazy.
Comment by Kevin
Please explain the difference. Plus, don’t forget he’s a preacher too.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:34 pmThis guy is truly a sick individual, and so are his followers (mostly members of his family).
I support individual freedom for all up to a certain point, but for this morally bankrupt jerk to intrude on the grief of people who lost loved ones in the tragedy is beyond the pale.
There was a motorcycle group who have volunteered in the past to keep Phelps and his group at bay for military funerals they tried to disrupt. Are they still doing that?
August 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pmRead the press release for the bridge collapse. Unbelievable.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pmIf Jesus and his original disciples were ANYTHING like these guys, the Christian religion would never have survived.
These guys are disgusting, dispicable, hate-filled, hypocritical examples of what Jesus taught AGAINST.
If they disrupt a funeral, they should be jailed and fined heavily.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:36 pmAgreed, Phelps is no more representative of the Right than Ward Churchill is of the Left.
Phelps is a whack-job, no question. But just because he was a Democrat in the eighties doesn’t mean he’s not Far Right today. Heck, Zell Miller was a Democratic Congressman a few years ago, and you can’t say he’s not a right-winger.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pmMinneapolis police have pretty low tolerance for anyone they deem troublemakers. They’ll beat heads if these nuts jaywalk.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:38 pmPhelps is truly evil; he’d be in jail for life on child abuse charges if not for some spineless pols and cops in Kansas. Also, Topeka is pretty wingnut, so they may hate him, but they don’t necessarily disagree with him on some major points.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:38 pmPhelps is a registered Democrat.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:38 pmHe supported Clinton and Al Gore.
Get your facts right TP.
Nice Propaganda Hit piece.
This might embarrass some of you dems getting ready to fry the right for this ahole, so hold on to your socks:
Ahem…
“Phelps remained prominent in state and local politics, working for years as a major organizer for the state’s Democratic Party. (He still calls himself a Democrat, refusing to change just because his party has.) In 1988, Phelps housed campaign workers for Al Gore’s first presidential run; in 1989, his eldest son, Fred Jr., hosted a fundraiser for Gore’s Senate campaign at his home.
Phelps has frequently run for public office — for governor in 1990, ‘94, and ‘98, for the Senate in ‘92 — always losing the primaries by a landslide. Because of their years as loyal Democrats, the Phelpses have even been invited to — and attended — both of Clinton’s inaugurations.”
August 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmFred Phelps is a Five Point Calvinist. That qualifies as right wing. If you think the Democratic party is all that “left wing” I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_of_Calvinism
Yes. He is nuts. What right winger isn’t?
August 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmI’m suprised no ones seriously messed these assclowns up yet.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:39 pmPhelps, his daughter, and all their inbred followers are wac..

August 7th, 2007 at 12:40 pmPlease post the biker info missmolly…Good reason for me to become a biker chick….Blessings
August 7th, 2007 at 12:40 pmPhelps is a registered Democrat.
He supported Clinton and Al Gore.
Get your facts right TP.
Nice Propaganda Hit piece.
Comment by Bugs Bunny — August 7, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Anyone can register as anything they want, and say they can say they support whomever they want. That’s weak, Bugs.
You support this guy?
August 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pmIf you twittering birds werent so busy preparing your hysterical attacks against Christians by trying to equate them to Phelps the Pig, you might have more time to investigate rather than just accepting what TP prints.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pmThis is how you fight a monster like Phelps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ2QY_1sXCI
August 7th, 2007 at 12:42 pmFor some hair-raising reading, check this out: http://www.baptistwatch.org/fredphelps.html
Wingnuts: Phelps may call himself a Democrat, but his gaybashing is pure Republican.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:43 pmRight-wing preacher Fred Phelps’….
————————————————
Fred Phelps is – and always has been – a Democrat.
Why here he is writing Al Gore a check: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/20001025_xnjdo_FredTimGore1.jpg
August 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pmAnyone can register as anything they want, and say they can say they support whomever they want. That’s weak, Bugs.
Apparently he called himself a dem long enough to get attended to Clinton’s big party not once but twice.
If you want to write him off because he only says he is a democrat, then I can write him off for saying he is a Christian.
I do believe there is common ground to hate this jerkoff but as a self-proclaimed Christian democrat, he has managed to get all of us ranting at one another.
And yes, they have come close to getting “messed up” by others; my Patriot Guard group have encountered them and managed to persuade them to move a bit farther away than they would have liked.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pmthe gore story is an old, twisted, r.w. propoganda piece…
debunked and demythed long ago…
the westboro gang are certifiably nuts…
i also wonder about any publication who would take their money
August 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pmand print such garbage, if any…
…
I don’t care if Phelps calls himself a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent. He is, regardless of any of his self appointed titles, a purveyor of hate, oppression, and disrespect. The political question is about who will stand up against him and his agenda, in all of its manifestations.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:45 pmBread, your posts are so stupid they make my teeth hurt. Name a “Christian” leader who isn’t a wingnut. I didn’t find many; how many can you name?
August 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pmWingnuts: Phelps may call himself a Democrat, but his gaybashing is pure Republican.
Comment by NoOneYouKnow
————————————————————
I’m a Republican and I have no problems with gay people, in fact many of my close friends are gay.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:47 pmComment by NoOneYouKnow — August 7, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
The photo of Fred Phelps titled: A cheerful Fred in Topeka, Kansas
He doesn’t look so much ‘cheerful’ as bat-sh!t crazy.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:47 pmI strongly believe that giving Phelps and his hatemongers even one bit of coverage encourages them. I suggest a total moratorium on coverage. They are a tiny group of haters, representing only themselves, and should be shunned by ALL media, including liberal blogs.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:48 pmPlease post the biker info missmolly…Good reason for me to become a biker chick….Blessings
Comment by Sharon — August 7, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
Here you go — there are several news articles like this one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006021801422.html
And here’s an interview with the Patriot Guard Riders:
http://www.cycleconnections.com/articledetail.asp?TypeID=9&ID=898&admin=1
August 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmPhelps picketed the funeral of Al Gore’s father.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmFred Phelps has no more than 100 suporters, many of whom are family members.
The guy is an extreme fringe, nutcase who represents virtually nobody, Republican or Democrat.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmPhelps is so far out there, he is way beyond the edge of either left or right. He is a nutcase who needs serious meds and therapy. It is unfortunate, that his hate has spread to soldiers funerals, and now this. Minnesotans may be calm by nature, but this sort of thing is sure to get the dander up of the Sons of Norway.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:50 pmOr Christian
August 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pmI strongly believe that giving Phelps and his hatemongers even one bit of coverage encourages them. I suggest a total moratorium on coverage. They are a tiny group of haters, representing only themselves, and should be shunned by ALL media, including liberal blogs.
Comment by debkakes — August 7, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Monsters thrive in the dark. We need to switch on the light.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:51 pmaarrrgh — TP isn’t letting me post anything. I hope this one gets through.
to Sharon, who wanted some info on the motorcyclists who blocked Phelps and his group from disrupting funerals:
It won’t let me post links, but if you Google “Patriot Guard Riders” you will find their website, a Wikipedia entry, and numerous articles from the MSM.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:52 pmFred Phelps; hated by moonbats and wingnuts alike.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:52 pmApparently, TP filters do not allow posting text from Wiki, or about Phelps, or Gore or something. Tried three times and completely failed to post.
Look up Phelps on Wikipedia and read the section on opposition to Clinton and Gore. This is just old, tired Republic lying by omission.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmMy guess, at risk of attributing too much intelligence to this nig-nog, is that he continues to call himself a Democrat because he knows he’s a detrimental figure, much like how I used to register as a Republican so that I could vote in the primaries for the most unelectable candidate I could imagine. They are crazies from all sides of the political continuum but this type of crap is way more right than left and the trolls here know it.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:53 pmComment by missmolly — August 7, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Same problems here, repeatedly.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:54 pmi just e-mailed the link from Fred’s group to the Minnesota branch of The Patriot Guard, they’ve dealt with his group before. I went to a service on Memorial day 2 years ago here in Maryland. He was totally shut out. The local municipality usually denies Fred’s group the proper permit for arcane bureaucratic reasons and the Guard usually stands by if they get too close. We’ll see.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:54 pmBread, your posts are so stupid they make my teeth hurt. Name a “Christian†leader who isn’t a wingnut. I didn’t find many; how many can you name?
Youre just naturally stupid and those are cavities, see a dentist once in a while.
What youre trying to do is take an extreme example like Falwell so that you can paint all Christians as being as doltish as he is, yet by a long shot mainstream Christians dont listen to guys like him.
You want an example? Fine, Father Michael McMillan, leader of the Message of Faith Church in Rochester, MN. Currently he is working in Liberia at various Christian NGO’s trying to help the desperately poor people who live there. He has been there for over a year with his bills paid mostly by his congregation, which is about one year longer than you have ever given to those in need.
Twit.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:54 pmhmmm. a troll here would NEVER only tell half the story, would they?
only when the facts are convenient do you agree with them, trolls. only when the facts are convenient.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:55 pmFred Phelps; hated by moonbats and wingnuts alike.
Comment by Ringo
_____________________
Perhaps here is the common ground for us to seek in what the true “American values” are.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:56 pmdebkakes –
if there is one thing I have learned from watching modern media coverage of events it is to respond quickly, respond often, respond strongly, and insult the messenger for covering the story. It’s like magic for making a story disappear.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:56 pmPlease stop covering this guy. He makes Bushie look like a smart moderate. He is irrelevant in every sense of the word in every political spectrum.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:56 pmApparently the four of his children who left the church claim that he’s “addicted to hate”.
Remember when people were sometimes committed to institutions? Do they still do that? Other than in Russia I mean?
August 7th, 2007 at 12:57 pmFred must be proud of his incestuous family.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pmAl Gore supports gay rights. He is very open regarding his support of civil unions and eliminating “don’t ask, don’t tell”
August 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pmPhelps “support” of Al Gore is a logical inconsistency.
Political labels are no longer relevant. For instance, in the actual meaning of the word, I’m a Republican. I believe that we need a Republic to protect the minority from the majority – a protection that is surely needed to balance the winner-take-all ramifications of pure Democracy.
I am also, from a social standpoint, the most flaming of flaming liberals (can you feel the heat coming through your monitor?). I understand that freedom is a very funky thing, and unless somebody is hurting someone else, or trampling on their right to be free in thought and personal action, or trashing the environment for everyone, they have a right to do whatever they want. I might not like what they’re doing, but it’s none of my business. Gays can marry. People can do drugs in their own homes (if they break any laws due to their behavior while high, they pay the price). Hookers may discreetly ply their trade. People can worship as they wish as long as religious trappings and motivations are kept completely separate from government.
I’m also Pragmatic. Wealthy people should pay more taxes than the less wealthy. Why? “Cause that’s where the money is (if you’re not wealthy, and you support the status quo, you have a major ideological disconnect). Learn from history: never fight a war you don’t have to fight – the loss of blood, treasure, and status is not worth the cost.
Then there’s my fiercely Conservative economic belief-set. Deficit spending and debt are bad for all of the obvious reasons. I cite the value of the US dollar under the Bush administration as proof. The current administration is worse than liberal in this respect. They are libertine.
Nonetheless, your comment stands:
he’s just nuts.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:59 pmPhelps has the exact same message as right wing Christofascist Pat Robertson.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThey are crazies from all sides of the political continuum but this type of crap is way more right than left and the trolls here know it.
Heh, so you admit there is ‘leftness’ in his actions, well thats a start; it must be painful for you to admit that not all conservatives act like this guy. So much for the current propoganda track of the libs.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pmI don’t know this Father Michael McMillan. I would ask what has he done to prevent folks like Jerry Falwell from hijacking Christianity for monetary and political gain.
Take it from moderate Muslims. If you are not active against the haters that represent you religion in the media you will be lumped in with them…and rightfully so.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pmFred Phelps; hated by moonbats and wingnuts alike.
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Something we can agree on….
August 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pmDon’t forget, Lyndon LaRouche ran as a Democrat for U.S. President (several times). Just to show that every political party has its nutcases. Phelps and LaRouche no more represent the mainstream of the Democratic party than Tancredo represents the viewpoint of the mainstream of the Republican party.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:01 pmPhelps has the exact same message as right wing Christofascist Pat Robertson.
And since every single conservative in America is a Robertson zealot, this really has some impact.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:02 pmThey are crazies from all sides of the political continuum but this type of crap is way more right than left and the trolls here know it.
Heh, so you admit there is ‘leftness’ in his actions, well thats a start; it must be painful for you to admit that not all conservatives act like this guy. So much for the current propoganda track of the libs.
Comment by Popcorn Eating Crusty Mac — August 7, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Way to catapult the propaganda, halfwit.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:03 pmGreat post Aurelius!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:03 pmHello!
Is everyone happy today?
I know I am!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:04 pmThere you go again.……trying to link Fred Phelps with mainstream conservatism. Leave it to TP………(You might redeem your tarnished reputation if you reported what right-wing pundits said about – and to the Phelps.) Honest reporting from the “Left”???? Hardly.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:04 pmTake it from moderate Muslims. If you are not active against the haters that represent you religion in the media you will be lumped in with them…and rightfully so.
Rightfully so? Youre ready to condemn all muslims because of the fanatics who infest their ranks?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI truly disagree with the method that Phelps uses to bring people to Christ. He does more hateful condemning than giving them what is directly out of the scripture. Also, protesting at funerals is despicable. Now if he were witnessing and pleading that the family and the friends of the deceased should give their lives to Christ before they leave this earth, that is okay. Most pastors have alter calls at funerals to save souls before the rapture.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pmthis is weird today. my posts appear, then disappear, then reappear, then disappear again.
what’s the deal?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pmTake it from moderate Muslims. If you are not active against the haters that represent you religion in the media you will be lumped in with them…and rightfully so.
Comment by ben
______________________
EXACTLY. And this is why we MUST highlight the actions of Phelps and soundly dispute his hate. This is especially true for those of us of faith.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:05 pmThanks Mike!!! Exposing Phelps as a Dem explains his intolerance……
Tooodles……….
August 7th, 2007 at 1:07 pmDaryll
Thank you for your protest about Phelps.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:07 pmRightfully so? Youre ready to condemn all muslims because of the fanatics who infest their ranks?
Comment by Bread — August 7, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
—————————-
Oh course.
It is the backwards religion that is the problem. Luckily, here is the USA we have the solution!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmHate the sin, not the sinner.
So God controls the budgets for bridge maintenance now? Wow. Here I thought people were responsible for that sort of thing…what with the paying of taxes, election of officials and manpower to do the work and everything.
Turns out people just didn’t pray enough. Who knew?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmIf you are not active against the haters that represent you religion in the media you will be lumped in with them…and rightfully so.
That says more about the media than the religion. If the media decides to proclaim scum like this as truly representative of Christians, then they are complicit in the false representation.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmRingo:
If you are indeed gay friendly, you are one of a handful within your party who is. Need I remind you that your party’s platform includes ‘defense of marriage’ and ’stopping the gay agenda’? That would be why this guy gets lopped in with your group even though he says he’s a democrat.
For all the trolls screaming that he’s a democrat: Did we say he’s a republican? Nope, we didn’t.
We refered to him as a Right-Wing Preacher. Now the whole Left-Versus-Right thing is very convoluted, with definitions being hard to pin down. You might assume every Right-Winger is Republican, but Libertarians can be said to be right wing as well (defining Right as pro-Capitalist and leaving social issues for another word, possibly socially conservative/liberal or my favorate, authortarian/libertarian). We don’t know this guys fiscal policy, and frankly I don’t care. But at least in the area of gays, he’s a social conservative of an extreme calibur. Does that make him Republican? No. Does that make him worthy of our scorn and ridicule? Hell yeah!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:09 pmWho cares? The guy is a quack. Stop giving him publicity.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:09 pmwow, is that THE mighty aphrodite/valiant venus that has been exposed here numerous times as a sociopath and a fraud?
why yes, i think it is.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:10 pmPhelps = the FUNDIE Right. He’s all yours hate filled rightards
August 7th, 2007 at 1:11 pmClinton/Phelps ‘08
Come on people, lets get organized!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:11 pmMost pastors have alter calls at funerals to save souls before the rapture.
Comment by Daryll
Hey Darryl?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pmyour pastor’s alter just called…..wanted to know if your’re gonna be there to pick it up at 5pm. I said you would be.
Phelps & his followers- poster children for hate. They are truly sick motherf*ckers.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:12 pmDaryll
Thank you for your protest about Phelps.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — August 7, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Patriot, we (holy people) do have a line that shouldn’t be crossed.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:13 pmPhelps = the FUNDIE Right. He’s all yours hate filled rightards
Yet he attends the democrat inaguration parties. When Hillary filled out the invitation, did she use “Mr” or “Reverend”…I wonder.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:13 pmRingo:
If you are indeed gay friendly, you are one of a handful within your party who is. Need I remind you that your party’s platform includes ‘defense of marriage’ and ’stopping the gay agenda’? That would be why this guy gets lopped in with your group even though he says he’s a democrat.
For all the trolls screaming that he’s a democrat: Did we say he’s a republican? Nope, we didn’t.
We refered to him as a Right-Wing Preacher. Now the whole Left-Versus-Right thing is very convoluted, with definitions being hard to pin down. You might assume every Right-Winger is Republican, but Libertarians can be said to be right wing as well (defining Right as pro-Capitalist and leaving social issues for another word, possibly socially conservative/liberal or my favorate, authortarian/libertarian). We don’t know this guys fiscal policy, and frankly I don’t care. But at least in the area of gays, he’s a social conservative of an extreme calibur. Does that make him Republican? No. Does that make him worthy of our scorn and ridicule? Hell yeah!
Comment by Jeremy — August 7, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
I have no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:15 pmAlso, protesting at funerals is despicable. Now if he were witnessing and pleading that the family and the friends of the deceased should give their lives to Christ before they leave this earth, that is okay.
So protesting a funeral is a no-go?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pmHarassing an entire grieving family at a funeral is all good, though?
What’s with the hearse-chasing mentality of spreading the faith? Why not just send ‘em an e-card?
Robertson/Phelps two peas in a fundie pod… hehehhe
August 7th, 2007 at 1:18 pmBread, you couldn’t think of one decent Christian leader, could you? Your example is in no way a national leader like Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, Ralph Reed, etc. I’m not saying that all Christians are nasty hypocrites. Just the ones with huge congregations that politically or morally support wingnuts like yourself.
Not surprisingly, you missed the point:
”
Take it from moderate Muslims. If you are not active against the haters that represent you religion in the media you will be lumped in with them…and rightfully so.
Comment by ben”
Ben is saying if you don’t counter the fanatics amongst you, you’ve supported them with your silence and deserve to be counted among them. Silence equals passive consent. If you need, I’ll explain it in smaller words.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:19 pmI can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
‘filthy’ ways? You mean they don’t wash their hands afterwards? That IS gross, ewww!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pmA blast from the past, here’s the incomparable Westboro crowd singing their hit song “God Hates the World” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQjLLPoxbKk
August 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pmHave I been banned?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:20 pmplease refer to my post at 52 to learn exactly *how* phelps attended the 1997 inaugural. only when the facts are convenient, bread-head.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmComment by wvng — August 7, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
YouTube is blocked here, but please..for the love of all things right and good in the world, tell me that it’s sung to the tune of ‘We are the World’.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmany doubt Phelps is a self-hating in-the-closet homosexual rightard?…like most of the hate filled right?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHave I been banned?
Comment by DRx J
Not yet…should we take a vote?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:22 pmWhy give this scum bag attention. The guy has 70 people in his church. WHO CARES. If you ignore the freak he will go away.
In other news, the Democratic party hates your freedom, and will use your donations that you worked so hard to be able to give, to stab you in the back.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:22 pmI’m a 5-point Calvinist and a Democrat but not a right-wing whack job.
Regardless of his political affiliation, his hate-filled diatribes remind me of other “right wing” preachers such as Falwell and that guy that looks like an elf whose name escapes me.
I can’t think of the name of the motorcycle group that provides security at the funerals but I do know they’re still doing it. One of my uncle’s friends is one of them.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:23 pmfred phelps is a DISGUSTING excuse for a human being. He used to protest now and then at my university. I have successfully executed a drive-by argument with him and his cronies. They didn’t know what hit them.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:25 pmWasn’t Phelps on the Right hate-radio ‘Michael Savage Show’ several times?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:25 pmHe’s a paranoid, violently homophobic preacher from the south who blames disasters and tragedies on those who are tolerant of other lifestyles. Yeah sounds just like a Democrat to me. LOL. You people are a frikkin joke.
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August 7th, 2007 at 1:26 pmWhen is Bush hiring Rev. Phelps to spearhead the Office of Faith Based Initiatives?
-GSD
August 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pmWe homeschool, so I come in contact with quite a few right wing wackos. As crazy as they are, they all think this guy is a nutjob.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pmWe homeschool, so I come in contact with quite a few right wing wackos. As crazy as they are, they all think this guy is a nutjob.
Comment by red state liberal
So do we, and I’d bet that not all of the ‘wacko’s’ you encounter are right-wing.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pmI really wish that the media would stop giving this guy ANY time at all. Regardless of whether it’s bad coverage or not, it’s still coverage. Any coverage of this disgusting person is too much coverage.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:32 pmI have no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
“Filthy ways”?? Sounds like you DO have a problem with gays, Daryll. Tell me something — who DO you associate with? Do you check out the sex lives of everyone you associate with? I mean — surely you must equally condemn the “filthy ways” of fornicators, adulterers, and anyone who has ever had sex with somebody they weren’t married to. I’d love to see the questionnaire you hand out.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:33 pmYou will keep taking it “werenotgonnatakeit†if you don’t get your directions right.
Westboro Baptist church is in Kansas. Kansas may be south of you, but we in the south tend to think of it as being in the mid-west.
Many of the funerals were WBC protestors gather are in the south.
And Baptist, as a species, are known to freely range the earth.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:37 pmTHis is how you fight unChristian jerks like Phelps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ2QY_1sXCI
August 7th, 2007 at 1:38 pmThis guy is not right wing. He is crazy. Comment by Kevin
He sounds alot like the troll Righty Ralph. And yes he is a wacko righty. Your guys should really control your village people.
Heh.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:39 pm“Phelps ain’t that bad actually.
He’s against the Iraq war.
The War in Afganistan.
He hates Israel.
He supports Islam.
He supports the Iranian regime.”
All obvious Lies
Phelps IS part crazy Fudamentalist Christian Right-Wing . Y’know the group that the Neocons love to fool, and use to get elected(?).
August 7th, 2007 at 1:40 pmgod hates the world…
god hates your children…
yes, it is to the tune of ‘we are the world’.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:41 pmand ‘we are the world’ is a bad enough song on its own.
I have no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
“Filthy ways�? Sounds like you DO have a problem with gays, Daryll. Tell me something — who DO you associate with? Do you check out the sex lives of everyone you associate with? I mean — surely you must equally condemn the “filthy ways†of fornicators, adulterers, and anyone who has ever had sex with somebody they weren’t married to. I’d love to see the questionnaire you hand out.
Comment by missmolly — August 7, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
I do. I associate with fellow bethren and sisters within the church.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:44 pmhave no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways. Comment by Daryll
You mean like this guy?
Howard L. Brooks: The Republican staffer was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography
Daryll, have you met Ralph yet?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:44 pmDrive-by arguments work well against phelps’ group.. “I DISAGREE!” You should have seen the reactions!
August 7th, 2007 at 1:44 pmDon’t call this guy rightwing…
I’m from Kansas, and no one likes Fred.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:45 pmPhelps is a despicable human being. There are despicable humans on the left and the right. There are despicable humans who are religious and atheist. The shame belongs to one, Phelps himself, but his shameful behavior should serve as a reminder to all of the frailty of the human and of the institutions which humans create.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:46 pmDaryll,
As a Christian, you are supposed to love gay people – not “not have a problem” with the, You shouls go to a gay bar and start showing these people some love.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:47 pmI associate with fellow bethren and sisters within the church.
Comment by Daryll
And you can be absolutely certain that your fellow brethren and sisters have never, ever ‘fallen’ off the straight and narrow path of righteousness? And if they did? Would you forgive them just as Christ forgave you, or would you condemn them in their sin?
August 7th, 2007 at 1:47 pmPhelps is a despicable human being.
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
I agree. And decent people everywhere can condemn despicable people like Phelps without tarring others.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:49 pmHow do you know that god didn’t wreck the bridge? If you can’t prove he/she didn’t do it, then Fred could be right. But if he/she did wreck it I don’t think it was because he/she was punishing Minnesotans for supporting gays. I think he/she did it because they talk funny.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pmReid and Pelosi are abject failures…
very disheartening.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pm.
#9
Show how little you think.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:52 pmThank’s missmolly, got it before TP made it go away….Blessings
August 7th, 2007 at 1:54 pm“I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.”
Too late. Bloomberg sold it to a European consortium last week. 8^)
August 7th, 2007 at 1:55 pmI do. I associate with fellow bethren and sisters within the church.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Sounds nice and safe. Even if your fellow brethren and sisters in the church aren’t all paragons of virtue, you can at least pretend they are.
I am very glad that Jesus Christ didn’t feel as you do. Instead of staying in a very safe environment of the righteous, He got out and associated with sinners. He ministered to them, He healed them, He loved them, and He forgave them. My Bible doesn’t record any instance of His using the term “filthy ways” to describe them.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:56 pmMy Bible doesn’t record any instance of His using the term “filthy ways†to describe them.
Comment by missmolly
Yeah well, that’s ‘cuz you and papa gino don’t read the same Bible, I presume. His says it’s Ok to beat the crap out of a Virgin Mary statue in front of an enthralled and enraptured audience during a sermon on idolatry. I bet he did it with a great big cross on the wall behind him.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThe reason these guys protest at funerals has little to do with god – it is the money. Can you imagine how hateful everyone is to them when they picket these funerals? They are basically begging for things to be thrown at them and be assaulted – because they’ll sue for that, and they’ve won in the past (from what I’ve heard, don’t really want to bother researching at the moment)
August 7th, 2007 at 2:01 pmThe only way to deal with this type of person is to ignore them.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:01 pmThe only way to deal with this type of person is to ignore them.
Comment by KingJacob — August 7, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
That or a pickaxe to the skull. That would be just as effective and much more satisfying.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:04 pmMy Bible doesn’t record any instance of His using the term “filthy ways†to describe them.
Comment by missmolly
Yeah well, that’s ‘cuz you and papa gino don’t read the same Bible, I presume. His says it’s Ok to beat the crap out of a Virgin Mary statue in front of an enthralled and enraptured audience during a sermon on idolatry. I bet he did it with a great big cross on the wall behind him.
Comment by SGT Higgins — August 7, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Wrong, we have no idols in the church AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:05 pmI think Daryll isnt for real. He is another toady who presents a caricature of a christian to reinforce the stereotype of a christian that so many here posses.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:05 pm#63
So what was the point of you BS #9 post?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:09 pmI think Daryll isnt for real. He is another toady who presents a caricature of a christian to reinforce the stereotype of a christian that so many here posses.
Comment by Troll
I think he lacks a chromosome.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:10 pm…assaulted – because they’ll sue for that, and they’ve won in the past…
Comment by Xbot — August 7, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
yes, they have… and it’s easy enough to find the facts, but i’ve read that phelps has sent many of his kids to law school for just that reason…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:10 pmthere are several, at least, lawyers in that group…
explains how he gets away with his hate…
it’s all very calculated…
.
It’s so good to see Joker back with his hateful ways…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:12 pmUsing yet another name…
You can’t use violence against them. If you do, they’ll sue. If you kill them, they’ll be martyrs. Either ignore them completely (won’t happen) or drive-by arguments. They don’t get the satisfaction of responding; it’s great!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:13 pmI think Daryll isnt for real. He is another toady who presents a caricature of a christian to reinforce the stereotype of a christian that so many here posses.
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
I am real and the Lord God is real. I am always psyched about Jesus.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThere is no god, and I’m psyched about that because that means there’s no hell so I can do whatever I want without any “afterlife” consequences.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:18 pmYay me!
There are only 70 members of the Westboro church, “60 of whom are related to Phelps through blood or marriage or both.â€
Filed under: Ethics Posted by Think Progress at 12:25 pm
70 members and 60 are related?
:|
Inbreeding.
Its a b$tch.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:18 pmbartlebee – lots of kids who got married and had kids…
it’s really sad to see the young ones who follow their parents…
anyone remember those 2 cute 12yr old nazi singers?
whoddu thunk it in the 21st century…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:21 pm…
Nahhh Katy.
Based on the press release put out by the Westboro Baptist Church on the Minnesota Bridge Collapse, I can safely conclude that the church is the result of inbreeding.
:|
Its a no brainer.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:24 pmThats funny, I thought god made Fred Phelps because he hated America.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:24 pmAt least we agree god hates america.
Or is it they’re the “no-brainers”… ?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:24 pmWrong, we have no idols in the church AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Daryll
Not so fast, Darryl. After looking again at Papa Gino’s page….you gotta admit…You idolize him, don’t you? Just a little?
Hey Darryl, can you think of another preacher in recent memory who felt it necessary to have a ’security’ team (aka thugs)? Jim Jones comes to mind. His ’security’ staff also ensured that the ‘meetings’ weren’t disrupted. So what’s up with that, huh? Why does Papa Gino needa team of thugs to protect his comings and goings? Whoarethey protecting him from? The church members? Seems kinda disengenuous to make yourself unavailable to the very same people you profess to care about.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:25 pmanyone remember those 2 cute 12yr old nazi singers?
Comment by katy
Real fine upbringin’ those two, huh? Believe it or not, it’s a small enough world that I actually have a familial (by marriage) tie to the former(?) producer of one of those extreme hate-fillled music labels. Resistance Records, I think.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:28 pmYou know whats really neato about this folks?
These same “church”, that posts a press release thanking God for the collapse of the Minneapolis bridge, get tax exemption from the Federal government.
:D
Cause they’re a church. You know, a church, that teaches people about God and love and junk…….
They’re super Christy!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:30 pmDaryll: “Wrong, we have no idols in the church AT ALL!!!!!!”
Sorry, your most iconic idol, something millions wear around their neck, is an image of a man being tortured to death. That you don’t refer to it as an “idol” is simply semantics.
Christians: is Phelps or is he not a christian?
I find it amazing that the same people who tag all of Islam with bin Laden’s radical philosophy are quick to dismiss Fred Phelps as not being christian.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pmI must correct you. This guy is definitely right wing. He’s mad as a hatter, like how right wingers mostly are.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pmChris: “Thats funny, I thought god made Fred Phelps because he hated America.
At least we agree god hates america.”
Then, you also agree with Osama bin Laden, bibleboy.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmBartlebee, it’s all about what degree of hate you’re willing to accept.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmAs loving and caring any religion professes to be, so long as it also teaches about sinners going to hell, or non-believers going to hell, there is a certain form of “hate” being taught.
Lots of people believe their god responsible for horrible events, Phelps is just thankful.
#
You know whats really neato about this folks?
These same “churchâ€, that posts a press release thanking God for the collapse of the Minneapolis bridge, get tax exemption from the Federal government.
:D
Cause they’re a church. You know, a church, that teaches people about God and love and junk…….
They’re super Christy!
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Yeah, like their tax breaks for the pool (naturally it’s used for baptisms) and the tennis court (outdoor sermons of course)…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:36 pmChristians: is Phelps or is he not a christian? —- WTF Are you asking us for? From what we can SEE, the short answer is no friggin’ way.
I find it amazing that the same people who tag all of Islam with bin Laden’s radical philosophy are quick to dismiss Fred Phelps as not being christian. —– The primary difference Col. is that bin Laden is living exactly as the Koran tells him to. He’s not a hypocrite. What Phelps is doing is not what’s taught by Christ in the Bible. Quite the contrary, Jesus own words rebuke people like Phelps for doing what they do in His name.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
August 7th, 2007 at 2:36 pmWilco.
Its insane.
A horrible disaster occurs and these peices of sh$t calling themselves a church put out a press release thanking god for killing all those people?
They’re garbage. Their church is garbage. And it should be closed down and their tax exempt status removed.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:38 pmHere is the response I recieved from the Mn. Patriot Gaurd:Hi Scott,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
We, like all Minnesotans and most Americans, all are grieving for and with the families of everyone affected by the tragedy of the bridge collapse and pray those affected will find comfort knowing that they are all in our thoughts and prayers.
While we feel sadness for our loss, we also feel sadness and disgust for those in this country who feel the need to use this tragedy for their own gain. These are truly reprehensible acts by people who use the First Amendment right to free speech to further their cause.
As our Mission Statement reads, our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family . Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.
1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.
2. Shield the mourning family and their friends from interruptions created by any protester or group of protesters.
Understanding that mission statement it is the feeling of the Board of Directors that in spite of the threat of protesters, this falls outside of the stated mission of the Patriot Guard Riders. We are not a counter-protest group, and our missions exist to honor the service and sacrifice of those who have served in the US Armed Forces.
We are unsure at this time, if there were any veterans involved in this event and we pray none were. If so and if we are invited by the family to attend the services, we will do our utmost to show our honor and respect for that fallen veteran.
Thank you again for your concern and willingness to share that with us.
One final thing I should bring to your attention: Minnesota has a state statute restricting protests of any sort within 500 feet of any funeral, memorial service, procession, or burial, beginning one hour prior to the start and ending one hour after conclusion of these services. Anyone participating in a protest or counter-protest in violation of that law could be subject to arrest right along with the WBC. This is one of several reasons why we only attend Veteran’s funerals as invited guests of the family. If we show up uninvited we’re no better than the thugs from KS.
Respects,
August 7th, 2007 at 2:39 pm–
Nate “Birdie” Zenker
Southeast Metro Ride Captain
Minnesota Membership Coordinator
Coordinator – Red Bull Welcome Home
Member – Red Knights MC, MN 4
bartlebee, it’s free speech
August 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pmtheirs is the speech which needs protection most
unfortunately
SGT. Higgins: “What Phelps is doing is not what’s taught by Christ in the Bible. Quite the contrary, Jesus own words rebuke people like Phelps for doing what they do in His name.”
I agree with you, SGT. Phelps and many conservative fundamentalist christians are strictly Old Testament. They should be calling themselves “Leviticans” instead of Christians. And, modern conservative christianity seems to conveniently forget that the New Testament is largely a repudiation of much of what is expressed in the Old Testament.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pmI have no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
COuld be just me, but this seems like a contridiction.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pmThe primary difference Col. is that bin Laden is living exactly as the Koran tells him to. He’s not a hypocrite. What Phelps is doing is not what’s taught by Christ in the Bible. Quite the contrary, Jesus own words rebuke people like Phelps for doing what they do in His name.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Bullsh$t.
The Koran doesn’t teach them to kill innocents no more than the Bible teaches nothing but love. Have you ever read the Old Testament?
The fact is intelligent people don’t let another man, or a book, teach them the difference between right and wrong.
Intelligent people can figure it out for themselves.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pmWrong, we have no idols in the church AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Daryll
Not so fast, Darryl. After looking again at Papa Gino’s page….you gotta admit…You idolize him, don’t you? Just a little?
Hey Darryl, can you think of another preacher in recent memory who felt it necessary to have a ’security’ team (aka thugs)? Jim Jones comes to mind. His ’security’ staff also ensured that the ‘meetings’ weren’t disrupted. So what’s up with that, huh? Why does Papa Gino needa team of thugs to protect his comings and goings? Whoarethey protecting him from? The church members? Seems kinda disengenuous to make yourself unavailable to the very same people you profess to care about.
Comment by SGT Higgins — August 7, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
Sure when you have individuals like you who want to murder the Pastor for speaking the truth. I have had multiple one on one conversations with Pastor Jennings. He’s a great man of God, and he is one of the few apostles who continue to preach the true word of God. Try again.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:43 pmUnbelievable. Unspeakable cruelty knows no bounds apparently. These are probably the same people who sing “Jesus wants me for a sunbeam” in church every Sunday. Or is it just a huge hatefest?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:44 pmbartlebee, it’s free speech
theirs is the speech which needs protection most
unfortunately
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Sure. Its free speech.
But its not tax exempt speech.
I never said ban their speech. I said remove their tax exempt status.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:45 pmChristianity is a perverted religion.\
It is a religion that has strayed from the path of the one true God.
That is why Christianity is be defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Islam is sweepeing the world.
Heck this website is more Pro-Muslim than it is Christian.
I salute ypu my Progressive Allie,s as we continue to undermine and destroy the Christian order.
Soon the blessing of Islam will dominate this land!
Insha’Allah!
Visit my website.
It’s for Muslims and Progressives!
http://www.umarlee.com
August 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmDaryll, what’s the difference between a statue of Shiva and a stature of the Crucificion? Aren’t they both “idols?”
August 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmI have no problem with gay people, but I do not support their lifestyle. I can be around them, but I cannot become an associate because of their filthy ways.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
COuld be just me, but this seems like a contridiction.
Comment by Jeannie See — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
It is just you. I will continue to pray for you.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmSure when you have individuals like you who want to murder the Pastor for speaking the truth.
Comment by Daryll
Hmm, that’s funny. My pastor also speaks truth and uh….hmmm…nope! No security necessary.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI find it amazing that the same people who tag all of Islam with bin Laden’s radical philosophy are quick to dismiss Fred Phelps as not being christian.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 7, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
me too… excellent point…
think they got it?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pm…
Ret. Col. Jack Ripper ,
August 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pmAccording to the holy Qu’ran yes they are both idols.
Hindus and Christians are idol worshippers.
They must both change and follow the will of Allah!
MN needs Phelps like we need another bridge collapse.
The Patriot Guard will be there to keep this vermin from the Church.
Personally, I don’t think our ‘MN nice’ will be fully displayed that day. Maybe we should get Jess Ventura out of mothballs to greet Fred with a bull body slam.
Sell tickets. Raise money for a new bridge.
Jesse?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pmDaryll, what’s the difference between a statue of Shiva and a stature of the Crucificion? Aren’t they both “idols?â€
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 7, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Yes, the statue of the cruficix does not represent Christ. Neither does a statue of Shiva. Wearing a crucifix will not send you to heaven. It is just a piece of wood or gold.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pmSure when you have individuals like you who want to murder the Pastor etc…
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
The good pastor sounds more and more like a cult leader. My advice Daryll when he passes out the kool-aid, take a walk. This is what cult leaders do daryll, they make themselves seem to be men of god, while insulating their followers from society. you have already stated you pretty much only hang out with fellow members of the church. there is a great big world out their Daryll no need to be afraid just cause someone doesn’t share your exact beliefs.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pmSo Joker, how many aliases do you use?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pmUmar, you’re barking up the wrong tree here. Don’t let the disdain for conservative fundamentalist christianity around here fool you. I think most christians are crazy and most muslims are even crazier, but that’s just me.
And, a muslim theocracy, just like a christian theocracy, is completely alien to the values of American liberalism.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pm#162
Do you even know what the New Testament is? Where exactly are Christ’s teachings and quotes in the Old Testament?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pm[...]
Lots of people believe their god responsible for horrible events, Phelps is just thankful.
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
whoa… … good one…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pm…
Daryll: “Yes, the statue of the cruficix does not represent Christ. Neither does a statue of Shiva. Wearing a crucifix will not send you to heaven. It is just a piece of wood or gold.”
Daryll, I only asked because of your contention that there are no “idols” in christianity. Your answer seems to be indicating that you DO think there is an “idol” in christianity.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:51 pmDaryll, what’s the difference between a statue of Shiva and a stature of the Crucificion? Aren’t they both “idols?â€
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 7, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Thats right. Praying to a statue of Jesus on the Cross is idol worship, nothing more. Just like the ancient egyptians praying to a statue of Amum.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pmSure when you have individuals like you who want to murder the Pastor for speaking the truth.
Comment by Daryll
Hmm, that’s funny. My pastor also speaks truth and uh….hmmm…nope! No security necessary.
Comment by SGT Higgins — August 7, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Has he spoken against homosexuality, women preachers, fornication, adultery, re-marriage, divorce, lust, etc.? If not, he does not speak the truth. You have been fooled. Wake up, read the bible, follow Acts 2:38 and save yourself before the rapture.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pmAccording to the holy Qu’ran yes they are both idols.
Hindus and Christians are idol worshippers.
They must both change and follow the will of Allah!
Comment by Umar Lee — August 7, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Ya Umar,
The will of God as stated in the Qu’raan is that Muslims and Christians should be allies, not enemies.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pmI will continue to pray for you.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
:|
Yea, thats great…if she wants to get hit by lightning bolts.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pmRet. Col. Jack Ripper ,
August 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pmIslam is gaining in strength. As much as you would deny it, most posters here would side with the wise Ayatollahs of Iran against your misquided Pastors.
Even in Atheistic Europe, many on the Left are now accepting the truth of of Allah and are following the Deen.
Many on this site do not realize it yet but they are Muslim in spirit.
But Daryll, you wake up. The Bible is fiction. There is no god. You will not get into heaven because heaven doesn’t exist.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pmNow I’m preaching to you!
Al Franken
Pick up truck
398 cream pies
Big sign – Free pies to throw!!
49 mini-cams
Youtube circle jerk
Add Soupy Sales if he can make it for color
August 7th, 2007 at 2:56 pmsome light reading daryll repent before the spiked drinks come.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
August 7th, 2007 at 2:58 pmSo Daryll, as a good Christian, you ignore all the laws Jesus followed? You know, the ones in the Torah?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:59 pmBARTLEBEE,
August 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmYou are correct. Christians are Idol worhippers like Pagans. They worship a 3 headed god that is blaspheme. They give gods unto Allah.
You have enlightenment. Do you follow the path of Islam?
If not you shoulkd pursue it and live the Deen.
Bullsh$t.
The Koran doesn’t teach them to kill innocents no more than the Bible teaches nothing but love. Have you ever read the Old Testament? —– I have, most anyway. Maybe all of it, just not ever from front to back. Are you saying that the Koran doesn’t teach killing innocents? Or that the Bible doesn’t teach nothin’ but love?
The fact is intelligent people don’t let another man, or a book, teach them the difference between right and wrong. —- No one said the book was for learning the ‘difference’ between the two, heck, the ‘book’ says its inherent, doesn’t even require a level of intelligence.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
August 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pmActs 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Nothing about Homosexuals, women preachers, fornication, adultery, re-marriage, divorce, or lust in this passage. I think most people who consider themselves Christian have been baptized, and understand the communion of saints and the forgiveness of sins.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pmKrazny ,
August 7th, 2007 at 3:03 pmChristianity is a religion based on lies. Islam is the truth as it is the direct revelation of Allah to his most beloved Prophet.
I will continue to pray for you.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
:|
Yea, thats great…if she wants to get hit by lightning bolts.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Yea, Daryll, please don’t. I have no time for lightning bolts. I just closed on a house and have to move.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:04 pmWait a minute… “or both” – someone related by blood that’s also married to the Phelps family… that does imply imbreeding, doesn’t it…
(Unless they mean someone who is related by blood to someone who’s married to the Phelps family… but after seeing this group in action, I doubt that’s the correct explanation…)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmI am not sure what point you were trying to make with your last post Sarge, but what I am saying is the Koran does not teach men to kill any more than the bible does.
NEITHER of them really teach men to kill. Once you understand the older languages, like Aramaic and Hebrew, you understand the figurative and poetic nature of the passages. Much of whats in the Koran, or the Old Testament, and much of the new Testament, was figurative.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmOften overlooked about the old testament, is it was passed down in an oral tradition for a few thousand years, before ever being written. Anyone ever played the game, where you sit in a circle and whisper something to your neighbor, then see what you get after it has been passed through a dozen people or so?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:09 pmWait a minute… “or both†– someone related by blood that’s also married to the Phelps family… that does imply imbreeding, doesn’t it…
Comment by John — August 7, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
You bet.
And you know how the ole saying goes…
Better dead than “inbred”.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pmI have no problem with gay people…
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
COuld be just me, but this seems like a contridiction.
Comment by Jeannie See — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
not just you… that was funny…
yeeeeaah… i got no problem wit the gaaays…
eehhh… i just got a problem BEin’ wit the gays…
(sorry, i can only come up with nj/mob style… albeit lame)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pm…
Has he spoken against homosexuality, — They, not he. (does that make us lost?) — hasn’t come up.
women preachers, — None as preachers, plenty elsewhere.
fornication, adultery, —yes
re-marriage, divorce,—– Not important. What’s more important Darryl, alienating everyone who’s ever been divorced or re-married, or being accepting of all who want to love and know Christ?
If not, he does not speak the truth. —- truth as it’s spoken by Gino, you mean.
You have been fooled. —- I’m not the one who’s been fooled.
Wake up, read the bible, follow Acts 2:38 —- There’s more than one verse in that book, genius.
and save yourself before the rapture. — I’m good, thanks.
Comment by Daryll
August 7th, 2007 at 3:11 pmPhelps is the best example of pure Christianity that I have ever seen, which is why I am an atheist.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmoral tradition for a few thousand years, before ever being written. Anyone ever played the game, where you sit in a circle and whisper something to your neighbor, then see what you get after it has been passed through a dozenpeople or so?
Comment by Krazny — August 7, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Its not quite that loose Kraz.
The “oral traditions” were repetitive prayers and oral scriptures, receited word for word, exactly the same, over and over throughout the ages.
The early oral traditions of the Jews had less innaccuracies in them than our printed text does today.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmFred Phelps is just a complete nut.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:14 pmActs 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Nothing about Homosexuals, women preachers, fornication, adultery, re-marriage, divorce, or lust in this passage. I think most people who consider themselves Christian have been baptized, and understand the communion of saints and the forgiveness of sins.
Comment by Krazny — August 7, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Krazny, wrong again. Baptized means to be go down or to be submerged with water in Jesus name. If it you were sprinkled and the preacher said in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, it does not count. The bible says that you must distinctly follow those rules. Also, have you received the holy ghost? Have you spoke in other tongues as the spirit gave utterance? If you followed Acts 2:38 correctly, you are not saved and you are still considered a sinner. The Holy Ghost will change your life. The Holy Ghost will convict you of wrong doing.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:14 pmJust what is the biblical foundation for The Rapture, anyway?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pmAnd that was one crappy movie, too.
EVERYONE WILL GO TO HELL, EXCEPT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY!!!
(Oh yeah, I’m just being sarcastic here. Like Fred Phelps would actually read the TRUTH. Just another part of homosexual behavior, according to that wife-beating child-beater. – Anthony)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:16 pmNEITHER of them really teach men to kill. — Ok, I’m willing to cede that point to you.
Once you understand the older languages, like Aramaic and Hebrew, you understand the figurative and poetic nature of the passages. —-Ok, wait just a dam minute! I know you’re like, part genius, but if you have an understanding of Aramaic and Hebrew, I’m even more impressed.
Much of whats in the Koran, or the Old Testament, and much of the new Testament, was figurative. —— There is definitely figurative speech. But most? C’mon, it’s more like 50/50. lol
btw, aswell read as you seem to be, ever read any of the ‘Case for…’ books? Just curious.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
August 7th, 2007 at 3:18 pmTo answer your question Daryll, yes I have accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, and have been baptized. I am sorry that it doesn’t meet your stringent requirements. Please read up on cults, and how they operate. I was raised Lutheran, and was baptized by my grandfather an ordained priest of the Lutheran Church.
Not sure where the speaking in tongues part comes from Acts 2:38 says to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and the gift of the Holy Ghost is yours. I think pastor Gino is a little off his rocker.
with apologies to Soundgarden
Hate, if you want to hate
August 7th, 2007 at 3:18 pmIf it keeps you safe
If it makes you brave
Fred Phelps and his crazy cult followers are some of Osama bin Laden’s and al Qaeda’s best “tools.”
Odds are very strong that some of these crazy cult followers of Fred Phelps have sat around their kitchen tables, sprinkling powder into envelopes, and then mailing these terrorist letters to patriotic American citizens that they “hate” as much as bin Laden and al Qaeda hate Americans.
And I actually feel sorry for all of these “stalkers” of our democracy and “terrorizers” of patriotic citizens in our freedom-loving society.
As they’ve sown, they must reap…and as they’ve sown their hate-filled judgments, they must all reap these self-same hate-filled judgments themselves…sometime, somewhere. It’s THE LAW. God’s LAW.
Just look at Alberto Gonzales. He, too, is nothing more than a “righteous pawn” for bin Laden and al Qaeda, literally a “front-man” doing to America what bin Laden and al Qaeda can only dream of doing to America.
Poor people. Poor, poor people. Poor, poor righteous, religious fundamentalist people. And all having to eventually and inevitably reap what they’ve sown in the way of their hate-filled righteous judgments.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:20 pmFred Phelps isn’t on the political left, or the political right.
He’s on the political wrong.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:21 pmwomen preachers, — None as preachers, plenty elsewhere.
fornication, adultery, —yes
re-marriage, divorce,—– Not important. What’s more important Darryl, alienating everyone who’s ever been divorced or re-married, or being accepting of all who want to love and know Christ?
If not, he does not speak the truth. —- truth as it’s spoken by Gino, you mean.
You have been fooled. —- I’m not the one who’s been fooled.
Wake up, read the bible, follow Acts 2:38 —- There’s more than one verse in that book, genius.
and save yourself before the rapture. — I’m good, thanks.
Comment by Daryll
Comment by SGT Higgins — August 7, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Sgt, you cannot pick and choose. If you have have to alienate people to preach the truth, so be it. We are on a mission to save and redeem as many souls as possible. The goal is not pleasing others. The goal is pleasing Christ. Also, re-marriage and divorce is important and if God’s laws aren’t followed, those who divorce and re-marry will be judged and sent to hell. Your preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:22 pmYour preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
Comment by Daryll
Daryll, in all seriousness, then why do preachers ignore Old Testament scripture so roundly?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pmWhy DO preachers pick and choose scriptures? You know well all the laws of the OT that Christians ignore, arguing Jesus changed everything. But Jesus was first and foremost a Jew. HE followed the OT laws. I don’t remember him saying that people should ignore them.
I’ve never gotten a satisfactory answer to this.
those who divorce and re-marry will be judged and sent to hell. Your preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Become a Lutheran Daryll, far less of the fire and brimstone, and far more about God’s love. When the day comes I will humble myself before God, and he will judge. Not you.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:27 pmTo those who choose to highlight Phelps’ party affiliation, I’d simply note that the Democratic Party has, over the past 75 years (at least), been the Party that welcomes a wide range of opinion–from the conservative to the liberal–unlike the Republican Party whose liberal faction was rooted out during the 1980s and became virtually non-existant (except for its Northeastern contingent) in 2007.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pmYes, Zell Miller remained a Democrat while espousing an incredibly conservative philosophy, but, on the other hand, a very large majority of Southern Democrats who followed the same conservative philosophy actually switched parties by 1995. The liberal-leaning Republicans, on the other hand, who chose to remain in the GOP to promote the “open tent philosophy” have been shunted aside to a point where they’re not taken seriously.
Also, re-marriage and divorce is important and if God’s laws aren’t followed, those who divorce and re-marry will be judged and sent to hell.
PooR Newt, PooR Guiliani are going to hell!! Yet Daryll will vote for these remarried men..?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pmthose who divorce and re-marry will be judged and sent to hell. Your preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Become a Lutheran Daryll, far less of the fire and brimstone, and far more about God’s love. When the day comes I will humble myself before God, and he will judge. Not you.
Comment by Krazny — August 7, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
There is more to the bible then God’s love. I don’t attend churches to go through a rendition. I go for the truth and to ensure that my life is right before judgement day. I want God to tell me, ” Well done my good and faithful servant”.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:36 pmYour preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
Comment by Daryll
Daryll, in all seriousness, then why do preachers ignore Old Testament scripture so roundly?
Why DO preachers pick and choose scriptures? You know well all the laws of the OT that Christians ignore, arguing Jesus changed everything. But Jesus was first and foremost a Jew. HE followed the OT laws. I don’t remember him saying that people should ignore them.
I’ve never gotten a satisfactory answer to this.
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
Wilco, the OT should only be used as a guide to assist us in life. The NT is the law for the Gentiles (Each and every one of us).
August 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pmPhelps and his church and kin are clear illustration of the dangers of sever inbreeding. It does tend to lower IQ averages and cause bad gene expession to predominate.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:38 pmEventually this man will die. And when he does, may 10,000 clowns be there laughing non-stop through his funeral.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pmThere is more to the bible then God’s love. —- That IS the message in the Bible, Darryl. It’s just one big love-fest.
I want God to tell me, †Well done my good and faithful servantâ€. — I suspect you’ll only be hearing that from pAPA gINO
Comment by Daryll —
August 7th, 2007 at 3:42 pmDaryll, then how does a Christian justify trying to be Christlike without being like Christ?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:44 pmAgain, Jesus followed the OT laws. So why do his followers, charged with being like him, ignore his beliefs?
Did Jesus ever tell his followers that the OT is “a guide to assist us in life”
Why does the NT take preference over the OT when Jesus, the man you profess to follow, followed the OT and believed in the OT?
Doesn’t it imply that Jesus’s very faith in God is just “a guide to assist us in life”?
Daryll
Jesus says you must hate your family. Do you hate your family?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Bart,
Actually there is an evolution of thought within Judaism which is reflected in the OT as it is being written over many centuries. You will find the later writings more in step with the teachings of Jesus who certainly takes their understanding of “God” to a new level. The traditions of Judaism and orthodox christianity overall reject literalist interpretations of the scriptures, the rise of protestantism changed that. Regardless the OT in christian tradition was only kept to help clarify the teachings and authority of the Christ. Anyone who has an elementary understanding of Christianity understands that the teachings of Christ supercede the Mosiac law.
The Koran however as poetic as it may be was always believed to be a literal record of the will of God revealed through the “prophet”. In it Allah clearly demands the death of those who will not submit. Jesus on the other hand commands his followers to put away the sword and to love.
In regards to your statement “Intelligent people can figure it out for themselves.” that assumes such a thing as right and wrong actually exist as opposed to being mere conventions relative to a particular society, if it does not how can it be figured out?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pmSgt, you cannot pick and choose. — Sure I can!! I can pick which bed to sleep in tonight or choose which law to break tomorrow. It’s called free-will. Something God absolutely values.
If you have have to alienate people to preach the truth, so be it. —- So if a ‘reformed’ homosexual decided to join your cul, I mean church, you’d not allow them in, right? I mean, they’re doomed to hell, right? Same as the divorced in the world? Just off to the fire pit with ‘em huh?
those who divorce and re-marry will be judged and sent to hell. Your preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures. — My pracher? Take a closer look at yours, Darryl.
Comment by Daryll
August 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pmThat guy is just a nutcase. I dont think he represents anyone except the far right such as the Coulters, Savages and Maulkins, and they are not truly republicans. But their kinds have invaded the republican party and basically shanghied it but eventually they will be run out on a rail and once again be outcasts on the fringes of society. All diseases run their courses and Phelps, Coulters and O’Reilly’s of the world will run theirs.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pm“If you come to me without hating father and mother, spouse and children, brothers and sisters, and even your own life, you cannot be my disciple.”
August 7th, 2007 at 3:47 pmJesus says you must hate your family. Do you hate your family?
Comment by Bruce Gorton
Excellent point!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pmWhat of it Darryl? Ever have to ‘gouge out your eye’? ‘cut off your left hand’??
A lifetime of service and praising, then an after-lifetime of service and praising. This is appealing how exactly?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pmI want God to tell me, †Well done my good and faithful servantâ€.
Comment by Daryll
The supreme being of light doesn’t talk,as we do, Daryll.
But you’ll find that out one day. I suggest removing all hate and materialism from your heart/soul.
Verily, Verily I say unto you to stop judging people.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pmDarryl,
Ever wonder what Jesus meant when he said to remove the plank from your own eye, before attempting to remove the speck from your brother’s?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pm60 members of the church are related to Phelps? Just goes to show that “so a twig is bent, so will it grow.” Hate is not a family value…Is it?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pmHate is not a family value…Is it?
Comment by LibertyLover
Unfortunately it is in some families. Neo-nazi’s raising their kids to hate ni**ers and j*ws aren’t only intolerant and ignorant, they’re real.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:53 pmAlso, Darryl do you accept, as literal truth, the story of Adam and Eve?
Because if you do, you accept that mankind’s origins include one heck of a lot of incest.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:54 pmAnd here is the catch 22 for all of you Christians out there: If you don’t you totally invalidate the crucifixion of Jesus as an act of sacrifice. (Original sin, eating that apple.)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:56 pmJim Bunn, Oregon: With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then immediately ditched his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll for the unheard-of salary of $97,500
Daryll is gonna send you to hell Mr Bunn. Of course Daryll may also go to hell for judging you.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:57 pm“If you come to me without hating father and mother, spouse and children, brothers and sisters, and even your own life, you cannot be my disciple.â€
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Wow Bruce you know how to screw it up it actually reads.
“Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;”
August 7th, 2007 at 3:59 pmtroll
I was quoting vebatim. Go read your Bible again. It is Luke 14, verse 26 and Jesus said it in those exact words.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:05 pmLiveth by the pie perish by the pie.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:06 pmComment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
A, I don’t need your google-school history of the Old Testament. I studied direct translations of the original Codex’s at Catholic U for years as a young man. I also have read the Masoretic Text (essential if you want to really understand the OT), as well as hundreds of other texts you’ve probably never heard of. What I wrote, stands.
That being said, I do agree with you that the gospel of Christ takes precedence over the Law of Moses, but that doesn’t change one bit what I wrote.
With regards to whether right or wrong exists, thats just esoteric bullsh$t. Of course right and wrong exists. Soothsayers and poets like to hear themselves talk, so they expound on topics and create doubts where none exist.
Its wrong to bash the head in of a 6 year old girl after raping her. Its wrong to hit an old lady over the head and take her purse. Its wrong to murder 100,000 people because you want to score political points.
Wrong is wrong, and no one but the overly self important, self deluded psuedo intellectuals consider otherwise.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:07 pmComment by Freedomboy — August 7, 2007 @ 4:06 p
*Snicker*
August 7th, 2007 at 4:10 pmIt’s in the English Standard version and in the King James version, the somewhat toned down Contemporary English Version of course changes it. Maily because the Contemporary English Version is designed for children.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:10 pmJesus said it in those exact words.
Comment by Bruce Gorton
No. No he didn’t.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:12 pmIt’s a translation. You two are working off of two different translations.
Bruce
Mea culpa, I was looking at matt 10;37
August 7th, 2007 at 4:13 pmbut it only makes clear the problems of literal interpretation for this would clearly contradict the command to love.
Seriously, no one was there to write down what Jesus said. It didn’t happen.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:17 pmMea culpa, I was looking at matt 10;37
but it only makes clear the problems of literal interpretation for this would clearly contradict the command to love.
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
In Matt 10:37, Jesus doesn’t contradict the command to love. It is a poetic way of reiterating the “great law” from the Mosaic laws to love God above all else.
Matthew 10:37 :He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:18 pmWrong is wrong, and no one but the overly self important, self deluded psuedo intellectuals consider otherwise.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
You should read some of what Lahaye, of the left behind series of books, writes. Scary how some people have twisted evil into good.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:19 pmNo. No he didn’t.
It’s a translation. You two are working off of two different translations.
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
And therein lies the problem with the bible. Who’s translation are you using, or who’s bible are you using?
August 7th, 2007 at 4:22 pm… just another mainstream Republican evangelical.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:25 pmSeriously, no one was there to write down what Jesus said. It didn’t happen.
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Well, not quite correct. We know Mark was written before 70 CE. And since John lived to around 100 CE, we know that at least one of the original witnesses were there when the oral history was finally recorded.
And the oral history was most likley a reciting of the same scriptures that we read today in the 4 gospels, read most likley by a Rabbi in a mixture of song and lament, word for word, unchanged for 40 years.
What we have in the 4 gospels as recorded in the KJV of the New Testament, is probably fairly close to what was originally recorded.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:25 pmYou should read some of what Lahaye, of the left behind series of books, writes. Scary how some people have twisted evil into good.
Comment by Lucem Ferre — August 7, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Yea, I’ve seen some of it Lucem. I also saw one or two of the movies. I’ve got some super-Christy holy rollers in the family, and they make me watch them.
Its cool though, I just undress the women with my eyes, and the 90 minutes goes by fairly quick.
:D
August 7th, 2007 at 4:28 pmTroll
Except you are left with the problem of what do you take literally and what is figurative?
Take the story of Adam and Eve: Most Christians figure it didn’t happen that way. The implications are simply, well, silly.
But without the story of Adam and Eve you don’t have original sin. No original sin, no Eden, no sacrifice of the perfect man.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:28 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Again a mea culpa, I spoke as if you had no knowledge of the subject.
Why then do you reference the OTs violence if you understand that Christ taught otherwise and he is the authority to a christian?
You also would be aware of the violence which Islam teaches but you overlook it. Why?
August 7th, 2007 at 4:28 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
I was refering to luke 14;26
August 7th, 2007 at 4:30 pmWilco
I am arguing it as Jesus the character in that remarkable work of fiction we call the Bible.
One could equally well say “Harry Potter said…” It doesn’t mean I accept the Bible as literal truth, it means I have read the book.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:31 pmComment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Agreed if all you have is the scriptures then it is all non-sense. I think the traditions of the ancient church which reject the sola-scriptora of the modern protestants help to clarify the meaning of scripture.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:40 pmWhy then do you reference the OTs violence if you understand that Christ taught otherwise and he is the authority to a christian?
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Because most Christian religions in this country do. Bear in mind, my identifying a common theology does not constitute my endorsing it.
The fact is most Christian churchs tend to read more and teach more from the OT than the NewT. Think about it, how many times have you heard a good ole country Christian say, “the good book says an eye for an eye.”? They ignore the “good news” Christ taught, and focus on all the stuff he wanted them to move beyond.
But I do understand they’re wrong in doing this, and hopelessly lost in an endless cycle of tedious scriptural debates and hatred of all that disagrees. Basically Christ came, told everyone to stop worrying about the letter of the law and to start getting along with each other and stop killing each other, and then they killed him for it. Its a pretty simple story, just like the simple stories he told to try to get people to understand, that at the end of the day, none of it works unless we all learn to live with each other and to stop killing each other.
:|
Oh yea and he said to stop wearing the silly hats.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:40 pmMy point is that we have no way of knowing what Jesus said. To argue discrepancies, is then ludicrous.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:41 pmJust because we suspect one of the original followers of Jesus was still alive when the first gospel was written (lived to 100? really very hard to believe) doesn’t make any bit of the gospels more likely.
And that they’re derived from oral tradition makes them even less likely to be factual. Stories change from person to person. They’re retold through different eyes, different experiences.
Then those get translated into other languages by other people. And then those translated texts get translated again.
To suggest what we have now is reliable is just not factually correct.
I was refering to luke 14;26
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
When you wrote Matt 10:27 ?
:|
Whats that like a kind of code or something?
August 7th, 2007 at 4:43 pmWe also should not forget the Council of Nicaea chose, which books went into the new testament, and spent a great deal of time arguing of whether Jesus was divine or not. The entire purpose of the council was to create single Christian church.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:48 pmthe Bible says “judge not lest ye be judged” perhaps this “preacher”, and i use that term very loosely here, should step back and take a better look at his Bible. instead of condeming the world why don’t u try saving it instead as Jesus commanded us.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:51 pmAs for your reference to the “hate thy father” verse from Luke, its clear to all but the uneducated that this was an example of the hyperbolic translations of the Greeks. The Greek language uses extremes and did at the time. Often the opposite or extreme is used to augment the point. Jesus was speaking of the relationship required of a disciple (not a typical follower) who would follow him and teach of him, and the idea was to emphasize the lack of importance usual family obligations must take as opposed to service to him.
Clearly if you think that message, teaches hate, then you’re out of your league.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:53 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
I was responding to Bruce. Sometimes having multiple conversations confuses matters. No code.
:)
How would you respond to Luke 14:26? I assume there is something lost in the translation of the word “hate” here? I have not researched it.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:54 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
oops nevermind.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe fact is most Christian churchs tend to read more and teach more from the OT than the NewT. Think about it, how many times have you heard a good ole country Christian say, “the good book says an eye for an eye.� They ignore the “good news†Christ taught, and focus on all the stuff he wanted them to move beyond.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
It’s EXACTLY this practice that is responsible for people like Phelps. He takes his justification from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis, and from Leviticus 18 and 20.
Leviticus also contains a number of other laws — concerning diet, dress, hygiene, shaving, animal sacrifice, stoning as the penalty for a variety of offenses, Sabbath observance, etc. etc. People like Phelps cherry-pick two passages that support their particular brand of bigotry and ignore the rest.
Homosexuality doesn’t appear in the 10 commandments (although adultery does). Jesus is not recorded as having said anything about homosexuality (He may have, but if He did, it’s lost to the ages).
August 7th, 2007 at 4:58 pmHuzzah, missmolly!
August 7th, 2007 at 5:02 pmI’ve never understood why that is. I mean, I do, but I don’t.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:02 pmYou also would be aware of the violence which Islam teaches but you overlook it. Why?
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Once again you’re looking at poorly translated western versions of a complex and ancient language. The Koran (Qu’ran) was originally, like much of the bible, only recorded in oral recitings for hundreds of years. It is a much newer book than the bible and the western translations are poorly done at best. In fact, you cannot discuss the Koran with a traditional cleric using any quotes from an english translation. Arabic is a difficult language for English translation, and the fact is the meaning of the words are obscure at best.
In other words, you don’t know what the Koran says.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:03 pmAs much as his message disgusts me, I can’t support taking away his right to vomit it up. However, I don’t think that he and his groups First Amendment rights should trump the rights of the people mourning and exercising their own First Amendment rights in the process of having a funeral.
I still think the Patriot Guard should set up a 24 / 7 protest outside of the WB church and blast Ministry all night long.
But to be honest all these people want is relevance and attention to feed their martyr complex. The more we pay attention to them the more they want.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:09 pmI still think the Patriot Guard should set up a 24 / 7 protest outside of the WB church and blast Ministry all night long.
Comment by E in MD
Or some Sisters of Mercy!
August 7th, 2007 at 5:17 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Do you know arabic as well?
August 7th, 2007 at 5:17 pmOr some Sisters of Mercy!
Comment by SGT Higgins (I swear, it’s me!) — August 7, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
LOL
That will straighten them out.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:19 pmI would suggest Skinny Puppy myself
August 7th, 2007 at 5:20 pmThis ring-wing preacher is using God to spread his narrow minded and discriminatory and hateful view. Christianity is all about showing compassion and not sitting in judgment of others.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:27 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 7, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Do you know arabic as well?
Comment by Troll — August 7, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
No, I don’t read or write arabic. Which is why I don’t know what the Koran says either. The only difference between you and me is I know enough about the language, to know I don’t know what the Koran says.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:46 pmMy point is that we have no way of knowing what Jesus said. To argue discrepancies, is then ludicrous.
Just because we suspect one of the original followers of Jesus was still alive when the first gospel was written (lived to 100? really very hard to believe) doesn’t make any bit of the gospels more likely.
And that they’re derived from oral tradition makes them even less likely to be factual. Stories change from person to person. They’re retold through different eyes, different experiences.
Then those get translated into other languages by other people. And then those translated texts get translated again.
To suggest what we have now is reliable is just not factually correct.
Comment by Wilco — August 7, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
Sorry Wilco, I missed this one.
As for John, I didn’t say he lived to be one hundred. I said he lived till around 100 CE, which he did. He was born around 6 CE, which would make him somewhere between 94 and 96 years old when he died. Why is that hard to believe? Lots of people live much older than that.
As for your less than eloquent statement “doesn’t make any bit of the gospels more likely.” I haven’t a clue as to what you are trying to say. More likely than what? More likely about what? Please elaborate.
As for your statement about how stories change from person to person, I already explained to you that the “Oral Scriptures” are actually more accurate than most printed text today for accuracy. These were not kids sitting on the floor passing along a ridiculous sentence to see how far they could mangle it.
These were literal scriptures recited just as Jews recite prayers and scripture at the wailing wall today in Jerusalem. These were verbal scriptures quoted precisely and often in unison, like a chant or a mantra. They were precise, which is one reason why the 4 gospels ended up so close to each other.
As for the languages, there weren’t that many. Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew, later Latin. The translations were painstakingly detailed and performed over time, and the beauty is we have much of the original translations in the Codices, as well as some of the original papyrus fragments, etc. The informations there, its just today we have idiots like this so called preacher, who don’t know any of this, so they invent their own gospels, which usually comprise gospels of hate.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:01 pmEven though Catholicism is totally screwed up, at least they teach their priests about actual history, language and culture of the bible. The Protestant religions which were essentially heretics to the mother church, today don’t even give their priests a good once over in latin. Instead they just send them to Falwell U where they learn to do the “holy-roll shuffle”, and send them out to deceive the masses.
If you want to learn about the historical Jesus, then talk to a Catholic.
The protestants will just tell you “all that junk don’t matter“.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:15 pmThink of it this way.
Lutherans are just lazy Catholics.
Presbyterians are just lazy Lutherans.
Methodists are just lazy Presbyterians.
And Baptists are just crazy Methodists.
:D
Thats from the Gospel according to St BARTLEBEE.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:29 pmPhelps just takes religious belief to its logical conclusion.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:43 pmBartlebee: “If you want to learn about the historical Jesus, then talk to a Catholic.
The protestants will just tell you “all that junk don’t matter“.”
I don’t know about that. The romans haven’t really been that gracious about the Gospels of Thomas, Mary and Judas. There doesn’t seem to be any inclination on their part to re-examine their dogma. And the fact that the Pope is a former Nazi doesn’t bode too well.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:08 pmYour preacher cannot pick and choose scriptures.
Comment by Daryll — August 7, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Says the twit who is an expert at picking and choosing from the Bible.
Talk about lack of self-awareness…
August 7th, 2007 at 7:15 pmGregor: “Talk about lack of self-awareness…”
My favorite stunt was when he chastised everyone for harboring “lust,” and then, in the next sentence, talked about how Laura Bush was hot. You can’t make this stuff up! The guy is certifiable.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:22 pmI am not talking about getting a holistic and theologically correct view of the real message of Christ, and I thought I was being redundantly clear about that.
I was talking about the historical life of Christ and the people he knew, as well as the language and culture of the time. You’ll find few more knowledgeable than Catholic priests. And about the only profession you’ll find that knows more latin than a lawyer is a Catholic priest.
And not only do they know the history, culture and languages of the time, they have access to the oldest known translations and papyrus of the books of which you speak, many of which I have read. For instance the Gospel of Thomas which is prominent in the Gnostic Gospels, or the “Nag Hammadi Library”, which reads quite different than the synopitc gospels that we have today in the canon.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:22 pmHe’s a christian nutjob… he’s a not a democrat. He may say he is… but like Lieberman, it doesn’t make him one.
Go to hell and burn shithead. (And that’s a SEVERE understatement)
August 7th, 2007 at 7:23 pmAs for the Pope being a former member of the Hitler Youth, yea, I thought that was really freaky too.
But then I considered that the horrors and crimes commited by the mother church at rome since its earliest days have far surpassed the short lived reign of nazi Germany.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:24 pmSome well-meaning American should put a bullet in Reverend Fred.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:25 pmMuch of whats in the Koran, or the Old Testament, and much of the new Testament, was figurative. —— There is definitely figurative speech. But most? C’mon, it’s more like 50/50. lol
Comment by SGT Higgins — August 7, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
I didn’t say “most”.
As you correctly quoted, I said “much”.
August 7th, 2007 at 8:11 pmIt’s a shame that the incest laws were not enforced in Kansas.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:03 pmThe guy is certifiable.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 7, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
This freak of nature he claims to follow the Bible literally (”you cannot pick and choose”) but then refuses to give up clothing made of two kinds of thread. Or give up shell fish. Or avoid touching his wife while she’s “impure”. Or…. you get the idea.
As for him being certifiable, sometimes I’d like to think he is a parody. It’s just too easy to poke fun at him…
August 7th, 2007 at 9:54 pmis what phelps does in breach of some kind of law or is he protected by free speech? – the hateful and violent statements made by this lunatic in the name of god reminds me of another lunatic on a religious crusade to rid the world of infidels,bin laden…..why doesn’t phelps get locked up in guantanamo bay as a terror suspect?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:13 pmgotta agree with norbizness up at the top. Stop giving this guy press and he’ll slink away.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:46 pmPhelps is a homophobic individual. Alone his speech would be called hate speech so he hides behind the cloak of Christianity to further his hate speech.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:47 pmBahahaha. I love how it’s always God punishing someone for not doing what insert-religious-group says people should do. It’s a pity, but it did make me burst out loud into laughter when I read the line “God made the bridge fall because he hates America, and especially Minnesota, because of its tolerance of homosexuality.” Gold.
~Sean
August 7th, 2007 at 10:55 pmBARTLEBEE
Think about this, as recently as the 1900’s, life expecancy averaged at 47 years of age.
In classical Rome, When John would have been around, the average lifespan was 28.
100 years would be almost 4 times the average lifespan of a normal human being at the time. It would be highly unlikely for John to have survived that long. particularly as John, at the time would have been considered a dangerous cult leader and have had a highly stressful life, if Christianity is to be believed about Rome’s reaction to the early Church.
The trouble with the Church, both in its early days and recently, is that it tends to rewrite history whenever something inconvenient shows up. For centuries the common people of Britain thought that Christianity had died out on the isle in the time between the fall of Rome and the mainland Church re-establishing contact. Now we know differently.
Think about the recent hoohah the Vatican had with Israel, over Israel saying the Pope, in WWII declared the church neutral to Nazi Germany. The pope actually did. It is precisely what he did. And the Jews daring to actually say so, resulted the current Pope threw a hessy fit over it. You know, just before starting a bid to saint the guy.
August 8th, 2007 at 3:58 amThe Catholic Church was the only Church for centuries, it is the wellspring from which all the other Church’s sprang, and it has a long history of lying, falsifying evidence, and silencing opposition to its lies and false evidence.
While I don’t doubt that the vast majority of mainstream priests nowadays are more honest then their predecessors, what we know about Christian theology is based on what those predecessors said.
Thus we are left with the issue of scripture, which itself is far from reliable, particularly if one takes into account downright obvious lies contained within it. Take the story of Christ’s death.
These guys seriously expected us to believe that the Romans, known for being ruthlessly effecient enforcers of Rome’s will, in a rebellious province, would allow a convicted rebel leader to go free because he was the most popular convicted rebel leader? That would be the equivelant today, of letting Osama Bin Laden go free because the Arabs like him!
August 8th, 2007 at 4:06 amI don’t know why so many want to associate him with the Democratic party as if they have anything to do with him. It is he who votes for them not the reverse. In our “tolerant” Christian nation, we tolerate people and groups like him because of the first amendment. It would seem that free speech has no limit. The hatred against gays comes mainly from Christian “tolerant” associations. They love the sinner but hate the sin. Yeah, yeah. There are plenty of people out there who listen to the rantings and ravings of these swine and think to themselves, I’m glad someone else is saying it for me. Gays are not asking to be tolerated or even loved by society. They just don’t want to have fewer rights nor be persecuted for being what they are. No, choice is never but never an issue.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:33 amThere you go again.……trying to link Fred Phelps with mainstream conservatism. Leave it to TP………(You might redeem your tarnished reputation if you reported what right-wing pundits said about – and to the Phelps.) Honest reporting from the “Leftâ€???? Hardly.
Comment by vile venus — August 7, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
And how about your many attempts to link everyone on the left with Ward Churchill and the Vox de Atzlan group, which most here have never even heard about? No one is forcing you to read this blog with its “tarnished reputation,” you know. Oh, I’m sorry: I almost forgot that you’re an admitted paid troll. Speaking of tarnished reputations.
August 8th, 2007 at 10:45 amOodles of noodles, toodle-pie.
RIGHT WING is right ….
I am a proud Moderate member of the Demorcratic Party (to say Democrat Party is an offensive slur BTW).
Phelps I am sure is so old and from the south he was a RIGHT WIN DIXIECRAT Demorcrat bigot – the same people MODERATE DEMOCRATIC President JFK had to fight with to integrate the southern schools.
August 8th, 2007 at 12:08 pmRJP3
LBJ. Not JFK.
August 8th, 2007 at 2:50 pmWhy does anyone that is crazy have to be right wing? Let me think…um…Stalin was far left.
August 8th, 2007 at 4:10 pmWe had to keep them away in my hometown when one of the students from the Va. Tech massacre was being buried. It has nothing to do with political party or affilation. It is just plainly sad, disrespectful, and crazy.
August 8th, 2007 at 4:14 pmLostcosts
The world is full of crazy people. A living Budha needs a license to reincarnate in China for crying out loud.
But these religious fundie crazies, they happen to be what we mean by the religious right.
August 8th, 2007 at 4:49 pmKranzy
Acts 2:38 uses the word “repent.â€
I understand the word “repent†to mean to turn from. So, I take the answer to the question preceding this scripture – “What shall we do to be saved?†– to mean you must turn from those things that you shouldn’t be doing.
Don’t believe the Jews had to be told what it was that they should be doing. They had laws telling them what the should being doing. Laws that very definitely told them what was irresponsible, sinful sexual behavior.
They were told to turn from their sinful behavior which includes sinful sexual behavior.
Christ is quote in Matthew 19 as saying the Creator intended a man and a woman to be one flesh. This is what is called marriage. This is the Bible endorsed version of sexual expression – one man one woman forever.
The Bible does record instances of men having more than one wife; however, the Bible never says it is permitted or a good thing, never endorses the practice, and never instructs these men as to how they should treat their multiple wives. In all cases of multiple wives the Bible records the negative consequences of the practice – sometimes with and sometimes without comment on the results.
Christ in Matthew 19 endorses the Creator’s intent which is record in Genesis.
Christ is also quote in John 5:28 as saying
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.â€
Do you think He really didn’t mean the things he said?
August 9th, 2007 at 10:18 amSad as it may be, is anyone really surprised to hear about this?
August 9th, 2007 at 12:00 pmOPERATION GOD LOVES LULZ IS UNDERWAY!!!!!!
Do NOT CALL numbers until 8.13.07
More information:
http://snipr.com/ghf_raid
This will be lulz :D
August 12th, 2007 at 6:00 pmi am a conservative Christian and i promise you — this gentleman is not acting as Jesus would at all — i think protesting funerals is unpatriotic — should not be allowed — and no matter what your belief — it is cruel to the family members and friends who are mourning — it is just plain evil spirited… i am so so sorry that he says he is a Christian — and even quotes Scripture — that is sad and sick… there are so many wackos that claim to be followers of Christ — i apologize to you who see them and think their way is representative of Christ — it is not… God is love. Jesus doesn’t hate anyone — He loves everyone… He hates sin — not the sinner — i.e., God hates drugs — not the drug addict… again, i am sorry — i don’t know this man — but again, i apologize that he says he is representing Christians — have a good day and know that Jesus loves you!
August 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pmi’m from minnesota. i’ve crossed that bridge i don’t know how many times. For God’s sake–just leave the families to mourn. They don’t need any more hurt.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:06 am