Greenwald: New FISA Law Means Admin ‘Can Listen To Every Single International Call That You Make’
Greenwald: New FISA Law Means Admin ‘Can Listen To Every Single International Call That You Make’
The White House has engaged in an all-out spin operation to downplay its new warrantless wiretapping powers. Yesterday, White House spokesperson Dana Perino falsely alleged that the new law returns the FISA law to “its original intent.”
After the New York Times explained that “by changing the legal definition of what is considered ‘electronic surveillance,’ the new law allows the government to eavesdrop on conversations without warrants,” spokesperson Tony Fratto issued a statement attacking the Times, arguing that it is “highly misleading” to say Congress has broadly expanded Bush’s authority:
[U]nder FISA, court approval is required for the government to target an individual located in the United States, and nothing in the new law changes that.
Fratto’s claims are baseless. Today on C-SPAN’s Washington Journal, former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald, who blogs at Salon.com, debunked the White House’s claim that the new FISA law requires “court approval” prior to spying on an “individual located in the United States.” In fact, as Greenwald explained, the law now allows the government to “listen to our conversations, read our e-mails, with no connection to terrorism, with no proof that anyone has ever done anything wrong” — without judicial oversight.
Watch it:
Specifically, the new FISA law permits warrantless domestic surveillance in the U.S. as long as the target of the call or e-mail is “reasonably believed” to be overseas. The implication of this loose clause, Greenwald notes, is far-reaching:
The government can monitor every single phone call that London is making to you in Washington, D.C., to any of the viewers at home. … They can listen to every single international call that you make or receive, every e-mail that you write, and e-mail that you receive, in complete and total secrecy.
Under the new FISA law, the “sole authority” to authorize the warrantless surveillance of people is now granted to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
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Good!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:31 pmGlenn Greenwald speaks the truth.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:32 pmMind if I call you “Scrote” from now on?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmWe have officially changed to Amerikkka. A sad day indeed. It was a great country while it was here.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmThank God for Glenn Greenwald, but he needs a much larger audience than he’s getting on CNN. He should be on all three of the network evening news programs, at bare minimum.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmGood!
Comment by Johannes Duns Scotus — August 7, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Yeah , that’s real understandable …….Give unheard of powers to the most dishonest and incompetent president and administration in US history.
Man , you’re as dumb as dirt , and much less useful……….
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pmwell, now we’re “safe” right?
The terrorists “hate us for our freedoms” and our own government is taking them away.
I feel much much better now!
Terrorists will never, ever destroy this country. They will never destroy our way of life. They can’t.
This will only come from within - from politicians who hate our liberty because it gets in the way of their ultimate goals - profits, power and war.
That’s my rant. Read on if you’d like:
“You Are Destroying America. Yes, You.”
August 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/ you_are_destroying_america_yes_you
Great!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pmComment by gummitch
He needs to include “the surge is working” to his statement if he wants to get full exposure on the networks.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:35 pmIt ALSO means that the U.S. government itself is illegal.
The very PURPOSE of having a government, as the Declaration of Independence notes, it to protect our unalienable rights. (”That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men”). And it is our DUTY as patriots to change or dissolve this government. (”-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”)
August 7th, 2007 at 2:35 pmMan , you’re as dumb as dirt , and much less useful……….
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
Mr Pee thinks he’s vastly amusing and that the Constitution is “silly.”
Mr Pee always has to make a comment like this because, well, because he has no life and this is his only form of entertainment ever since the blow-up doll blew a valve.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:35 pmLet’s have it, wingnuts. I know. If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got no problems, right?
OK, fine. Let’s have that information on what the Bush administration knew about Pat Tillman’s murder. If Bush has nothing to hide, he’s got no problem.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:36 pmMourning Journal? editorial comment?
…and: How is Greenwald a “former Constitutional lawyer”. Has his degree been revoked?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:37 pm“They that would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” -Benjamin Franklin
To me this says it all….
August 7th, 2007 at 2:37 pmI have this plant - I think it’s a philodendron - but I’m not sure. Anyway, the leaves have been turning brown on the edges, and the plant begins to wilt in the evenings. Do you have any suggestions as to how I might return the plant to its former healthy self?
Thanks in advance.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:38 pmBack when FDR was President they didn’t bother with all these “court approvals”, they just locked you up until the war was over.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:38 pmAs for this troll Johannes Duns Scotus, just leave it alone (it is used to that, anyway). If we ignore it, maybe it will go to Powerline and comment.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:38 pmCan we please not acknowledge Mr. Pee’s presence in this thread. Otherwise it will become another win for the trolls.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:39 pmMy Aunt Sallie used to say the same thing. Her potato salad was great! I miss her.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pmOf course, we must take as a given
August 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pmthat the definition of “international”
has been changed from
“between nations”
to
“within the nation”……..
So now the only way to guarantee privacy when making international calls is to speak only in Arabic or Farsi. The government may be able to listen in, but they don’t have enough straight translators to know what you’re saying.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pmI’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
/moonbat principles
August 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pmWhen is some Dem congress person going to grow some courage & ask how many Dems congress-persons’ phone calls were listened to by Alberto and his master ???
August 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pmO mangiar questa minestra o saltar questa finestra.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pm“If we ignore it, maybe it will go to Powerline and comment.”
Comment by Tom
Or it might pee on a powerline and repent…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:43 pmOf course, we must take as a given that the definition of “internationalâ€
has been changed from “between nationsâ€
to
“within the nationâ€â€¦â€¦..
Comment by Raven — August 7, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
And if it’s voice-over-IP, does it count as international if one or two router hops are in Canada?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:44 pmI’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
/moonbat principles
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
My Aunt Mabel used to say the exact same thing!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:44 pm“some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
Comment by Ringo”
I suppose that would be an i-phone, so that you can look at the pictures, and the touch screen is so much easier to cleanoff…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:45 pmI’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
Ringo, those are the only two alternatives? Either we allow the government that can’t respond to emergencies, attack the right nation or even remember what meeting they attended to listen in on all our calls, or else some Islamo-terror attack is going to kill our mothers and daughters?
And we don’t really need to hear about your masturbatory habits. It’s enough that the NSA knows all about it.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmgummitch
I thought it was ever since his tube sock got sick of being molested and left him.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:46 pmI’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
/moonbat principles
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
I’d rather give up all my rights/civil liberties to a president and administration (whom are completely undeserving of such) and that is the most dishonest and secretive in US history , simply because they are part of the polticial party I so gullibly , blindly , ignorantly and stupidly worship ………..
The horseshit GOP/Chimpy leg humping backers credo.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pmBack when FDR was President they didn’t bother with all these “court approvalsâ€, they just locked you up until the war was over.
Comment by Ringo
The February 6, 2006, testimony of Alberto Gonzales to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Wartime Executive Power and the National Security Agency’s Surveillance Authority, however indicates otherwise:
GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you’re possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we’re not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.
What war are you talking about dingo?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pmO mangiar questa minestra o saltar questa finestra.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
:(
Are you giving me the non-sequitir troll treatment, too? Cause I thought that was a pretty funny joke…
August 7th, 2007 at 2:47 pm“some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
Comment by Ringoâ€
Were you on the phone with Rover?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pmYes. But only in good fun (about the translators, and all). No disrespect.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:49 pmTranslation: Either eat this soup, or jump out that window.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
/moonbat principles
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
I’d rather give up my rights/civil liberties for no reason to the most undeserving , secretive and dishonest president and administration in US history than question it in any way , because they are part of the political party I worship blindly , ignorantly , and stupidly ……
The GOP/Chimpy backers credo.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pm5 will get you 10 that domestic calls are wiretapped(without warrants) as well.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:51 pmAnd if it’s voice-over-IP, does it count as international if one or two router hops are in Canada?
Comment by toasterhead
Of course!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:51 pmIt is information coming from the outside world,
and to a totalitarian-minded regime,
that is bad…
“I’d rather that your mother and daughter die in an Islamo-terror attack than to risk the remote possibility that some government official might hear me masturbating over the phone.
/moonbat principles
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:41 pm”
“They that would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.†-Benjamin Franklin
In your paranoia you are giving away the very rights and liberties that make this country what it is. You are sadly and dangerously short-sighted.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pm5 will get you 10 that domestic calls are wiretapped(without warrants) as well.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Without judges overseeing this program….who knows? And that is the problem.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pm“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.”
-PATRICK HENRY
August 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pmWasn’t it the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pm5 will get you 10 that domestic calls are wiretapped(without warrants) as well.
Comment by Uncle Ho — August 7, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
“12-15 will get you 20″
August 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pm(overheard at Mark Foley’s house and RNC headquarters)
So how do you “reasonably believe” that an e-mail is going to be read by someone overseas?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:53 pmThis whole thing is sick and wrong, but you know what’s truly terrifying?
This:
August 7th, 2007 at 2:54 pmThe question I have is: Does this new law retroactively make legal all the warrantless wiretaps or communication intercepts the administration has done previously?
August 7th, 2007 at 2:55 pmWasn’t it the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
No
It was select Dems , called “Blue Dogs” ; Heath Shuler among them.
No wonder the Redskins suck ………….Even their ex-players are jerkoffs.
Those “Blue Dogs” better revel in their 1 and only term ; they will not be re-elected , and rightfully so……..
August 7th, 2007 at 2:55 pmUnder the new FISA law, the “sole authority†to authorize the warrantless surveillance of people is now granted to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
Comment by Zooey — August 7, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
That’s like making Charles Manson head of Humanitarian Services …..
August 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pmRingo; please keep your circle jerk fantasies to yourself, for the rest of us, TMI.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pmI really thought the folks on the right were brave and honorable. To gladly give up rights without any semblance of security, is just cowardly. The founding fathers are not proud of those who would trample on their perfectly created documents. A sad day indeed. Thank God for Greenwald and folks like him who speak the truth. Shame on those who want a monarchy. There are some monarchy’s on planet Earth. I suggest you find one and GO THERE!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pmThe idea appeals to me. It could turn my boring international phone conversations into fantastic three way hotline liasons. Bring it on, you sassy beauracrats.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:58 pmfly-man; you bet your bippy it’s retroactive.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:58 pmWasn’t it the Democrat controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
———-
Indeed, it was, r. The Democrat Party acted in the best interest of the USA for a change.
But they should do more!!! What about domestic phone calls? Does the govt need to get a pesky warrant for those?
I hope not.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:59 pmThat’s like making Charles Manson head of Humanitarian Services …..
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
Nice one. :)
I think Abu G will be very interested in spying on those who have questioned him. He seems like that kind of guy.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:59 pmYes. But only in good fun (about the translators, and all). No disrespect.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Ah ok, then - no worries :)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmRingo; please keep your circle jerk fantasies to yourself, for the rest of us, TMI.
Comment by Uncle Ho — August 7, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
If a caller identifies himself as “Ringo,” hang up immediately. :D
August 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmWasn’t it the Democrat controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
———-
Indeed, it was, r. The Democrat Party acted in the best interest of the USA for a change.
But they should do more!!! What about domestic phone calls? Does the govt need to get a pesky warrant for those?
I hope not.
Comment by Johannes Duns Scotus — August 7, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Do you actually enjoy being a colossal moron and an annoying stupid piece of crap ?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pmNo
It was select Dems , called “Blue Dogs†; Heath Shuler among them.
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Actually, Yes.
You’re correct that it was only select Dems. who voted for it, but it is in fact the “Democratic controlled Congress†that made this possible.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pm“He who would trade his freedom for the ‘illusion of security’ deserves neither - freedom or security”. This pretty much says it all. We’ve traded and now we have nothing left.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:02 pmHerer is a great link from Scott Horton, Glenn Greenwald’s twin seperated at birth:
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90000790
Love this quote:Sometime soon you’ll hear an Administration apologist explain that, while he can’t really tell you anything about the surveillance program that has been crafted to circumvent FISA, because it’s super-secret, it only involves Evil Foreigners, so you have nothing to worry about. When that happens, note the moment. Somewhere in the world, an angel is being waterboarded. (H/t to Jon Stewart).
August 7th, 2007 at 3:02 pmA mandate for change.
Hehehe…hahahah….BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
At every turn Bush is pwning the democrats, at every turn. Welcome to the wonderful world of Reid and Pelosi, where pathetic leadership is standard operating procedure.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI was geting ready to change the plugs on my old Nissan pick-up, and the dude at the auto parts shop tells me that I need 8 plugs. So i tell him it’s only a 4 cylinder. he say to look at the bottom of each cylinder. So I do, and guess what? There wer plugs there, too! I had never changed them before. Wonder if I’ll get better mileage.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:03 pmAnd the Dems - the illustrious and famed “gang of 41″ be damned. These 41 could have stopped this horrendous breach of our civil liberties and they chose not to. Shame on them. Now the people will hold BOTH - the Repukes and these Dems - responsible for giving away our rights in this democracy and helping to trash our constitution.
Both parties be damned! Time for a Third! Now IS the time for a third if there ever was one.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:04 pmUnder the new FISA law, the “sole authority†to authorize the warrantless surveillance of people is now granted to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
That should read:
Under the new FISA law, the “sole authority†to authorize the warrantless surveillance of people is now granted to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, a True American Patriot.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:04 pmZooey; sounds like good advice. (hang up immediately).
August 7th, 2007 at 3:04 pmAND EVEN WORSE
A new law expanding the government’s spying powers gives the Bush Administration a six-month window to install permanent back doors in the nation’s communication networks.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:05 pmI was geting ready to change the plugs on my old Nissan pick-up, and the dude at the auto parts shop tells me that I need 8 plugs. So i tell him it’s only a 4 cylinder. he say to look at the bottom of each cylinder. So I do, and guess what? There wer plugs there, too! I had never changed them before. Wonder if I’ll get better mileage.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
What year pick-up?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:05 pmJohannas Der Scrotum: Evidently you’re not familiar with the Constitution of the United States. Poor dear - with a moniker like that, it pretty much says it all.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:05 pmI hope that BushCo realize that those very “back doors” are the ones which will be placing them in jail when the tables turn in 08.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmThe Bush administration plans to leave oversight of its expanded foreign eavesdropping program to the same government officials who supervise the surveillance activities and to the intelligence personnel who carry them out, senior government officials said yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 08/ 06/ AR2007080601303_pf.html
Just another reason this is a huge mistake.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmHere is another beautiful quote from Mr. Horton:
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmAt this point, of course, the reservoir of trust is tapped. And there’s good reason. Almost every super-secret-trust-us idea that has been sold to the American public over the last six years has turned out to be unalloyed bullshit. It has consistently been cooked up to serve a partisan political agenda. We trusted it into bogus wars and a long series of other misadventures.
It was select Dems , called “Blue Dogs†; Heath Shuler among them.
Dems nonetheless; they had to answer to the red constituency who were supposedly the newest members of the 2006 Blue Tide.
At least you still have Mexifornia and Homochussetts.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmYeah unfettered executive branch, at least until Bush is out of office from the sunset provision.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pmBoth parties be damned! Time for a Third! Now IS the time for a third if there ever was one.
Comment by veritas — August 7, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
———–
I don’t think you can vote for OBL, veritas.
Too bad 4 U!!!
CHENEY/TANCREDO 2008!!!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:06 pm~~~~~~~GOD BLESS~~~~~~~
The UNITED STATES of AMERICA!!!!!!
Back when FDR was President they didn’t bother with all these “court approvalsâ€, they just locked you up until the war was over.
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Not that I am condoning in any way the west coast Japanese internment camps of WWII, but I’d like to point out that FDR’s war was a real war, with a real enemy and a real objective. Our occupation of Iraq
August 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmA mandate for change.
Hehehe…hahahah….BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
At every turn Bush is pwning the democrats, at every turn. Welcome to the wonderful world of Reid and Pelosi, where pathetic leadership is standard operating procedure.
Comment by Clammer of the Shell — August 7, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
And at every corner , Chimpy is still a failure and the worst president in US history , and you still support him ; how stupid and pathetic are you ?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmyeah, but it’s up 25% today…this thing had just steadily declined nearly everyday over the past year…maybe good news for the longs (I got out at $1.59)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmAlberto Gonzales: The only man alive who can contradict himself in public, making a huge jackass of himself, and then be appointed to be the “decider”. This is movie script material.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmSo does Ringo support warrantless searches?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:07 pmThe government should have unfettered access to our homes if it might maybe protect us from terrorists?
You’re beautiful when you’re manic. Wanna get married?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:08 pmJohanna’s Scotum: We know you’re the moron troll here who has nothing better to do with his time than to play schizoid and think you’re fooling any of us. Have it your way, little juvenile dweeb. No one here EVER listens to a bit of your drivel.
I hear that new moniker of yours refers to your private parts. Johanna’s Scrotum…..a little hermaphroditey-tidey??
August 7th, 2007 at 3:09 pmyeah, but it’s up 25% today…this thing had just steadily declined nearly everyday over the past year…maybe good news for the longs (I got out at $1.59)
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Ok, but what did you get in at?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:09 pmIt was select Dems , called “Blue Dogs†; Heath Shuler among them.
Dems nonetheless; they had to answer to the red constituency who were supposedly the newest members of the 2006 Blue Tide.
At least you still have Mexifornia and Homochussetts.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Yeah , as opposed to Texass , Oklahomo , and Kansass ; the 3 states that resemble aboriginal backwaters in terms of their collective IQ and their hilariously stupid beliefs in the joke called the Bible.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThe new poll of Bush’s numbers will be in the teens by next week. How much lower can he go before he becomes totally irrelevant and a human cipher?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:09 pmBoth parties be damned! Time for a Third! Now IS the time for a third if there ever was one.
NOW! Now is your time, Maitlyn! (hat tip: Wellington). ‘Cept there isnt a viable third party for the greater mass of Americans. The liberals will naturally lean toward the communists or the nazis but the rest of us will have to be more circumspect in our decisions.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pmBack when FDR was President they didn’t bother with all these “court approvalsâ€, they just locked you up until the war was over.
Comment by Ringo — August 7, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
I am not condoning the west coast Japanese internment camps of WWII, but I’d like to point out that FDR’s “war” was a real war, with a real enemy and a real objective. Our occupation of Iraq has already lasted longer than our involvement in WWII, and our leaders are talking about indefinite occupation. Does this mean that we hold our prisoners without counsel, without a trial, and without any rights at all forever? Evidently so.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pm‘Bout 2 a.m. And you?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pmtest
August 7th, 2007 at 3:12 pm“Oklahomo�
“hilariously stupid beliefs in the joke called the Bible�
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
That doesn’t sound very progressive.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:12 pmfly-man; good link.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmYeah , as opposed to Texass , Oklahomo , and Kansass ; the 3 states that resemble aboriginal backwaters in terms of their collective IQ and their hilariously stupid beliefs in the joke called the Bible.
Cool, dont forget we also get Tennessee!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmNot that I am condoning in any way the west coast Japanese internment camps of WWII, but I’d like to point out that FDR’s war was a real war, with a real enemy and a real objective. Our occupation of Iraq
Comment by missmolly — August 7, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
OK — at least now PARTS of my posts are getting through! I meant to say that our occupation of Iraq has lasted longer than our involvement in WWII did, and it looks like we may be there indefinitely. I suppose this means that we hold our prisoners without trial, without counsel, and without any rights whatsoever until the end of time? Evidently.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pmComment by veritas — August 7, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Where’s ♠?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:13 pm‘Bout 2 a.m. And you?
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
13′-9″, but the bridge sign said 12′ clearance.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:14 pmThat doesn’t sound very progressive.
He is a selective liberal, completely killing the idea of the liberal Big Tent. Closet bigot.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:14 pmExactly.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:14 pm“Oklahomo�
“hilariously stupid beliefs in the joke called the Bible�
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
That doesn’t sound very progressive.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
You believe that a fictional book that is viewed as the “word of God” with multitudes of contradictions throughout it , is somehow “progressive” ?
Thanks for informing me that you’re Tom Tancretin , the stupid ass who believes the Flintstones to be a documentary of human history ……..
August 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pm“Wasn’t it the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by r”
Are you saying that no Republicans voted to give Bush that power? It was not the Democratic controlled Congress, it was turn-coat Blue Dog Democrats who are more Republican than Democrat. And they will undoubtedly pay in the next election.
This turn of events is not playing well with any of the Conservatives I know. They are all furious with the Republican party and with Bush. And I’ll bet that poor Goldwater is turning over in his grave every night.
This just may be the beginning of the end folks.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:15 pmI meant to say that our occupation of Iraq has lasted longer than our involvement in WWII did,
We also fought a total war, including firebombing of cities and the use of the atom bomb. Meanwhile our Russian allies were absorbing twenty million casualties on their side of the war.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:16 pmThe crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:19 pmThat doesn’t sound very progressive.
He is a selective liberal, completely killing the idea of the liberal Big Tent. Closet bigot.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Birds — August 7, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Yes, because you writing “At least you still have Mexifornia and Homochussetts.”
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
shows you to be nothing close to homophobic and a bigot , right Shitty Shitty Turd ?
I have gay and lesbian friends and believe they should be allowed to wed ; do you ?
Somehow , I doubt it……….
And BTW
August 7th, 2007 at 3:19 pmYou can keep Tennessee along with the joke know as country “music” ; laughable crap that sounds as if someone is going to start yodeling at any moment shouldn’t try to call itself music in any way……..
“You’re correct that it was only select Dems. who voted for it, but it is in fact the “Democratic controlled Congress†that made this possible.
Comment by r “
And how do you come up with that inane bit of logic? Are going going to tell us that if it had been a Republican controlled congress the bill would not have passed?
Gawd you are such an idiot.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:20 pmI meant to say that our occupation of Iraq has lasted longer than our involvement in WWII did,
We also fought a total war, including firebombing of cities and the use of the atom bomb. Meanwhile our Russian allies were absorbing twenty million casualties on their side of the war.
Comment by Clammer of the Shell — August 7, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
We were also sneak-attacked by the Japs ; yet , we didn’t go invade the Faulkland Islands , either , jerkoff…………Funny how you Chimpy ball mongers fail to acknowledge that.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWe the Sheeple should be proud of ourselves.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWhat’s Lindsay Lohan’s next move?
The problem is that there isn’t one credible shred of evidence that any of these expanded powers of the presidency are protecting us. Sure they have arrested a few wannabes like the Fort Dix Six that are more to be pitied than feared, but they haven’t arrested a real bad guy who posed a real threat. They haven’t found a bomb factory in this country. There’s just no tangible evidence to prove all of their claims of protecting us.
If they really are doing their jobs, and the threats are real, we should see perp walks with real bad guys in handcuffs. We should see raids and weapons confiscated. Instead they always use the negative that nothing has happened so they must be doing their jobs, knowing that you can’t prove a negative. So where is the positive proof. Where are the fruits of all of this unconstitutional spying? We don’t even know if the eight years between the two attacks on the World Trade Center is a proper interval to use as a standard because you can’t establish a normal interval based on two events.
You can bet that they aren’t keeping any terrorist arrests or raids a secret. If they had them, they would use them as cover next time Gonzo sticks his foot in his mouth. They seems to be running out of wannabes to round up for cover recently so now they’re going with Chernoff’s gut reactions.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:22 pmLong live Glenn Greenwald!
He is a must read every day…
August 7th, 2007 at 3:23 pmAre you saying that no Republicans voted to give Bush that power? It was not the Democratic controlled Congress, it was turn-coat Blue Dog Democrats who are more Republican than Democrat. And they will undoubtedly pay in the next election.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 7, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
I agree that all Republicans voted for it. And I agree with you that it was it was turn-coat Blue Dog Democrats that you don’t like who voted for it.
But you can’t say it was not the “Democratic controlled Congress†who made it possible. That’s the only congress we have, and they – in fact – made this possible.
And how do you come up with that inane bit of logic? Are going going to tell us that if it had been a Republican controlled congress the bill would not have passed?
Gawd you are such an idiot.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 7, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
I’ll type slower. There is only one congress and they are “Democratic controlledâ€. Like it or not.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:25 pmThat doesn’t sound very progressive.
He is a selective liberal, completely killing the idea of the liberal Big Tent. Closet bigot.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Birds
Do trolls even bother making arguments anymore? We should be able to flag this nonsense as spam.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:25 pmMaybe McClellan told the Blue Dogs that something really horrible is in the works and that the gov needs this expanded power for a few months as an extraordinary measure to prevent a terrible tragedy.
Well, for me, I want to know the facts. I want to know about whatever threat lurks. Our dems do us no favors by sheltering us from the truth. This administration has lied repeatedly about supposed threats. Let the suspected threats see the light of day. Maybe a few journalists, embarrassed about past lapses, will investigate and either debunk or confirm the alleged threats.
If the threat is real, we nee leadership. “Walk softly and carry a big stick” . . . “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” kind of leadership.
If the terrorist threat is here to stay . . . leaders should instill a culture of informed Americans prepared to deal with it.
Don’t profess to protect me from me.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pmI’ll type slower. There is only one congress and they are “Democratic controlledâ€. Like it or not.
Comment by r
I agree with you on this. It is a horrible piece of legislation and Bush should not sign it and send it back to Congress.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pm“The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.”
Comment by Marcus Aurelius
“… ain’t this boogie a mess!………….”
August 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pmshows you to be nothing close to homophobic and a bigot , right Shitty Shitty Turd ?
I have gay and lesbian friends and believe they should be allowed to wed ; do you ?
Somehow , I doubt it……….
No, I admit my biases, unlike you who try to cloak it in righteous liberal boilerplate. Do you ever ask your gay and lesbian ‘friends’ if they have ever visited “Oklahomo”?
And BTW
You can keep Tennessee along with the joke know as country “music†; laughable crap that sounds as if someone is going to start yodeling at any moment shouldn’t try to call itself music in any way……..
I agree, country music is tough to listen to, I prefer traditional blues myself. BTW, did I mention Al Gore is from Tennessee?
Now get back under the sink!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThey should understand that to mean that you plan to faint dramatically and thus distract the attention of the medical staff and, for that matter, the assembled audience, from the main event.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pmDo you ever ask your gay and lesbian ‘friends’ if they have ever visited “Oklahomo�
Ouch. I’ll bet that doesn’t get answered.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pmWould the Ben Franklin have voted to give this power to King George?
Would the John Hancock have voted to give this power to King George?
Would the Thomas Jefferson have voted to give this power to King George?
Would the George Washington have voted to give this power to King George?
Would the John Adams have voted to give this power to King George?
And all the others?
They seemed to understand that a power given today is an abuse that will happen tomarrow…
We were able to go through the entire cold war without this law… yet somehow it is needed now? It does not add up.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:29 pmHa!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:30 pmI’ll type slower. There is only one congress and they are “Democratic controlledâ€. Like it or not.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
No one claimed that they weren’t ; but there’s a reason why they are referred to as “Blue Dogs” , and it isn’t because they’re offspring of Barney…….
I know it must be difficult for a room-temperature IQ like yours to comprehend ; your political party follows each other like lobotomized morons , with nary an original thought or voice of dissent anywhere within their putrid ranks.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:30 pm“Oklahomo�
“hilariously stupid beliefs in the joke called the Bible�
Comment by MCMetal — August 7, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
That doesn’t sound very progressive.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
You’re absolutely right, “r”.
The sad thing is, “At least you still have Mexifornia and Homochussetts.” sounds quintessentially Conservative.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:30 pmBehind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:32 pmBehind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
My wife left me and took my dog. Gawd I’m gonna miss him.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:34 pm“Wasn’t it the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by râ€
Are you saying that no Republicans voted to give Bush that power?
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 7, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
bilbo, you misunderstand the Republican creed. When they talk about “personal responsibility” they mean they seek to find persons other than themselves that they can hold responsible for bad stuff that they’ve done personally. See how it works?
Their goal is to find someone else who can be held to account. That person is almost always Not A Republican. Those few times when it IS a Republican, it’s always one who has outlived his usefulness to The Party.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:34 pmNo, I admit my biases, unlike you who try to cloak it in righteous liberal boilerplate. Do you ever ask your gay and lesbian ‘friends’ if they have ever visited “Oklahomo�
I agree, country music is tough to listen to, I prefer traditional blues myself. BTW, did I mention Al Gore is from Tennessee?
Now get back under the sink!
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
When have I ever claimed to be “righteous” ; and for you , a GOP/Chimpy backing stooge to accuse anyone of that is preposterous.
That is the sole “domain” of the phonies in the hypocritical party that you yourself support ; they run on platforms that do not in any way apply to them at all.
As for the blues ; those who play it , do so because they aren’t fast enough or talented enough to play higher forms.
Now , back into your hovel , you knuckle-dragging , brainless cretin………Before I kick you back into the cesspool you were 1st formed in.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:35 pmThe sad thing is, “At least you still have Mexifornia and Homochussetts.†sounds quintessentially Conservative.
Yeah? What does “Oklahomo” sound like? You better ask MCMetal if he is a closet quintessential conservative, its his term.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:36 pmThose who would give up even a few rights in order to obtain a little security deserve neither rights nor security.
I’m typing from memory, but you get the idea. Ben Franklin thought this was a bad idea 230 years ago.
I personally would rather die then give up my rights to a bunch of cowards.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pm“Wasn’t it the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible?
Comment by râ€
Comment by mikey r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
None-the-less, it was the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pmDo you trolls think that just once you could, I don’t know, actually elevate the conversation? As opposed to turning every thread into an online version of the NY Post?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pmGet over it, already.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:37 pmAs for the blues ; those who play it , do so because they aren’t fast enough or talented enough to play higher forms.
Comment by MCMetal
Yeah, that Stevie Ray Vaughn was a total hack.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:38 pmAnd where were you at the time in queation?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pm#104 We were also sneak-attacked by the Japs ; yet , we didn’t go invade the Faulkland Islands , either , jerkoff…………Funny how you Chimpy ball mongers fail to acknowledge that.
Comment by MCMetal
But But………. what if we hadn’t invaded Iraq? Saddam would still be in power……..and Iraq and Iran would be keeping each other balanced……….and we wouldn’t have the thousands of new insurgents/terrorists we have created in Iraq…….and we would have 3500+ more live young American troops………….and we would not be owned by China…………and Iraq would still have an infrastructure……..and the “Commander Codpiece Guy” and his Keystone Kops might actually have captured OBL.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pmYeah? What does “Oklahomo†sound like?
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird
Sounds like an off-off-off-off Broadway show.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pmDo you ever ask your gay and lesbian ‘friends’ if they have ever visited “Oklahomo�
Ouch. I’ll bet that doesn’t get answered.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
I sure have ……….I am not a hypocrite like you 2 douchebags , and the garbage political party you stupidly adore.
I can joke about it , because I do not scream like a mindless banshee about the “evils” of homosexuality , and how it’s against “God’s will” , or even how it will lead to an acceptance of beastiality ; and then turn right around , AND ENGAGE IN GAY SEX ………..
Hypocrisy , ignorance and blind loyalty are the 3 traits that the GOP ’screens’ for in its members and polticians.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:39 pmr - If that “r” for righteous or “ridiot”? Ridiot, which wh know that U R.
“L”? It’s for loovah . . .yeah, that’s me.
How’s that bridge you’re buying?
Goin’ nowhere I suspect.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:40 pmYeah? What does “Oklahomo†sound like? You better ask MCMetal if he is a closet quintessential conservative, its his term.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Hey look, I’m agreeing with you guys. “Oklahomo” doesn’t sound like a progressive term. It sounds like a right-wing-type term. Maybe MCMetal IS a closet conservative.
Or maybe he was making an exaggerated point to demonstrate your own repugnant positions and debating techniques. I don’t know.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:40 pmAs for the blues ; those who play it , do so because they aren’t fast enough or talented enough to play higher forms.
Comment by MCMetal
Yeah, that Stevie Ray Vaughn was a total hack.
Comment by dlet — August 7, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
He’s a novice compared to a Steve Vai , an Allan Holdsworth and/or a Segovia (and many others I could name on a whim) ; end of story …..
August 7th, 2007 at 3:41 pm#123 - You admit that you are biased!? Yet another difference between republicans and democrats. I address every issue on its merits. I would gladly change my mind on an issue if I was presented with persuasive facts. You would rather discount arguments, opinions, and facts because they don’t fit your world view. That is a very startling admission. I appreciate the honesty though.
Sincerely,
August 7th, 2007 at 3:41 pmYeah? What does “Oklahomo†sound like? You better ask MCMetal if he is a closet quintessential conservative, its his term.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
I’ll try: (O-kle-hOm-O)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:43 pm#129 Yeah. BB King and Clapton . . . total hacks.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:43 pmAs for the blues ; those who play it , do so because they aren’t fast enough or talented enough to play higher forms.
Comment by MCMetal
Hey! Watch it!
This is wrong. You are disrespecting some of the greatest musicians of the 20th century. Don’t make me come over there and slap you.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI presume that everybody realizes that when you access the MS help desk, you are more then likely to be talking to someone in mainland China. When you check into your employer’s benefits desk, you could be talking to someone in India or mainland China. The call centers that you use to access services and personal information are being off loaded away from the United States. The same can be true on on-line chat sessions.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:44 pmend of story …..
Comment by MCMetal
Ok then. discussing musical leanings is stupid anyway. You like what you like….you play what you like to play…end of story.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pmI don’t care if they listen to my international phone calls.
Well maybe a little because it means they are wasting their time (and my tax $)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pmHe didn’t say a word about Abba.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pmNone-the-less, it was the Democratic controlled Congress that made this possible.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
that’s the old wing-nut spirit! Find a crooked stick to beat a point with, and beat it and beat it and beat it, even after the stick splinters and you’re left with just a nub!
Ignore the fact that the bill passed with more Republican votes than Democratic in both houses, or that the Democratic leadership voted against it. Because the Democrats hold a slim majority in both houses, you can claim that the Democrats hate America because this Republican-backed bill passed and was signed by a Republican president!
Nice work!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:46 pmYeah? What does “Oklahomo†sound like? You better ask MCMetal if he is a closet quintessential conservative, its his term.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Hey look, I’m agreeing with you guys. “Oklahomo†doesn’t sound like a progressive term. It sounds like a right-wing-type term. Maybe MCMetal IS a closet conservative.
Or maybe he was making an exaggerated point to demonstrate your own repugnant positions and debating techniques. I don’t know.
Comment by mikey r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
I’m simply just tired of the stupidity and hypocrisy exhibited by these horseshit GOP/Chimpy backing nimrods.
They speak as if their neighborhood/state , is so inherently “better” ; based upon what ?
It’s already worthless , because stupid asses that back the useless GOP devalues all property.
And please , you cannot have an IQ over three digits and not understand that a state that tries to teach Creationism as a “fact” , like Kansas , isn’t an embarrassment ; you going to claim that Santa and the Easter Bunny are hanging around , too ?
Cancervatism is a mental disorder ; it’s as simple as that.
It’s based upon the principle of “me and mine , 1st and 2nd , and the hell with everyone else”………
August 7th, 2007 at 3:47 pmThis thread has degenerated completely… people need to learn to ingnore the trolls.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:47 pmHe didn’t say a word about Abba.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
He didn’t diss disco, either. That he could have gotten away with.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:47 pmYou going to answer me, MCpopcorn? You ever ask your gay friends if they have visited “Oklahomo”?
August 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pmGlenn Greenwald still speaks the truth.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pm#129 Yeah. BB King and Clapton . . . total hacks.
Comment by L — August 7, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I could play their material while taking a dump (which mirrors their playing) , when was a teen-ager ……..
August 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pmFor god’s sake, LET. IT. GO!
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pmI don’t care if they listen to my international phone calls.
Well maybe a little because it means they are wasting their time (and my tax $)
Comment by Cynicon Implant
OK, just don’t mention anything about your unregistered guns which I am sure you would have no problem, if they were all taken away, huh?
See, if you shit on MY Constitutional rights, then I can shot on yours as welll……… RIGHT??
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pmNice work!
Comment by mikey r — August 7, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
Well said, mikey. But the troll will be back to repeat the same crooked stick again, as if you had not responded at all.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:49 pmYou going to answer me, MCpopcorn? You ever ask your gay friends if they have visited “Oklahomo�
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 7, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
I already answered you stupid ass , you tremendous ignoramus , in my last several posts.
Get lost now , Shitty Shitty Turd…………
August 7th, 2007 at 3:50 pmOh, such a toss up. To be a bllues legend for a day or ridiot? What’s a girl to do?
I don’t know . . . but if gummitch is planning to slap McMetal . . . I think I’ll go with our idiot . . . maybe shortcircuit his wires. . . . all tapped . . . out.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:50 pmOT
Another Catastrophe!!!
PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY DESTROYED BY FLOOD
August 7th, 2007 at 3:51 pmÂ
       (Crawford, Texas) A tragic flood this morning destroyed the personal library of George W. Bush . The flood began in the presidential bathroom where both of the books were kept.
Â
       Both books have been lost. A presidential spokesman said the president was devastated, as he had almost finished coloring the second one.Â
       Â
       The White House tried to call FEMA, but there was no answer.
(Snark)
I told you.
I’ve been telling all of you this for 2 years now.
Soon, you’ll hear about how they are actually recording ALL CALLS in the US, just like I’ve been saying.
Its not just ALL international calls.
Its ALL CALLS.
Wait and see.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:52 pmWhat’s a girl to do? Comment by L
Gee, tough question, but I hear that when things get bad for RUDEE, he buys some new dresses!
Hope that helps.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:53 pm. The flood began in the presidential bathroom where both of the books were kept.
Both books have been lost. A presidential spokesman said the president was devastated, as he had almost finished coloring the second one.
Comment by Merlin — August 7, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
BAWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
August 7th, 2007 at 3:53 pm…
i’ve wondered this since the news broke…
listening to randi now helped put some thoughts together…
how are they gonna sift through all the tech support / catalog orders / customer service / etc. calls that go overseas? …
i have a feeling that was a special part of the deal - definitely broadens any chances of finding SOMEthing to latch onto…
but mostly i think it’s about spying on politicians…
oh! that reminds me:
August 7th, 2007 at 3:56 pm***
did you know that any investigation begun during this 6 month period, even though the law sunsets, will be allowed to go on for another year…
just enough time to get in the “elections” and skadoodle out of the white house with the evidence…
!
#151
BB King and Clapton . . . total hacks.
Comment by L — August 7, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I could play their material while taking a dump (which mirrors their playing) , when was a teen-ager ……..
Comment by MCMetal
__________________________________
Must be so disappointing. You there on the crapper . . . no audience, no recording contract, just you and a little air guitar.
August 7th, 2007 at 3:57 pm#151
BB King and Clapton . . . total hacks.
Comment by L — August 7, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I could play their material while taking a dump (which mirrors their playing) , when was a teen-ager ……..
Comment by MCMetal
__________________________________
Must be so disappointing. You there on the crapper . . . no audience, no recording contract, just you and a little air guitar.
Comment by L — August 7, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
It was during band practice ……..Wearing a wireless……Don’t be jealous just because an uncoordinated clod like yourself has difficulty playing the lottery and radio ………Much less something of substance