ThinkFast: August 7, 2007
ThinkFast: August 7, 2007
“Britain called Tuesday for the Bush administration to release five British residents held at Guantanamo Bay — a policy reversal that suggests new Prime Minister Gordon Brown is pursuing a tougher line with the U.S. than his predecessor.” During his time as Prime Minister, Tony Blair rarely intervened in Guantanamo cases.
“A federal judge yesterday rejected New York City’s efforts to prevent the release of nearly 2,000 pages of raw intelligence reports and other documents detailing the Police Department’s covert surveillance of protest groups and individual activists before the Republican National Convention in 2004.”
Four Republican presidential candidates have now agreed to participate in the CNN/YouTube debate. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, who has “questioned the debate format, has made a number of public statements indicating he is open to participating.” Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney “appears less convinced.”
26: Number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq in the last week, beginning a “wave” of violence after a “relatively low death toll in July.”
The new law expanding the Bush administration’s spying powers “gives Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales responsibility for creating the broad procedures determining whose telephone calls and e-mails are collected. It also gives McConnell and Gonzales the role of assessing compliance with those procedures.”
“Iraq’s political crisis worsened Monday as five more ministers announced a boycott of Cabinet meetings leaving the embattled prime minister’s unity government with no members affiliated with Sunni political factions.”
Today in Singapore, Al Gore lambasted the misinformation campaign led by the world’s leading carbon polluters. “There has been an organized campaign, financed to the tune of about $10 million a year from some of the largest carbon polluters, to create the impression that there is disagreement in the scientific community,” said Gore. “In actuality, there is very little disagreement.”
And finally: “Imminent rail strikes may be threatening to bring Germany to a standstill,” but “one German train made an unscheduled halt for an entirely different reason — to replace a broken beer keg tap.” A special train ferrying soccer fans to Hamburg faced the “alarming prospect of a beer-less journey” and stopped a Wuppertal station. A “taxi rushed to fetch a replacement for the crucial instrument. Twenty-five minutes later, the new tap had arrived and the train could continue on its way.”
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"Number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq in the last week, beginning a “wave†of violence after a “relatively low death toll in July.â€
It is a very sad state of affairs when we can refer to 70+ Americans being killed in Iraq as a "relatively low" death toll.
What have we done? And why are we still doing it?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:10 amWhen is this nightmare going to end? This hangover has lasted, now, almost 7 years.
Seems a hell of a lot longer...
August 7th, 2007 at 9:10 amThis is now day #5 that TP won't print any of my articles. Is my ban permanent?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:11 amIs Ron Paul not a cool name to post?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:13 amAt least the Germans have their priorities straight.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:17 ama policy reversal that suggests new Prime Minister Gordon Brown is pursuing a tougher line with the U.S. than his predecessor.â€
Have you ever thought about how bad news for the U.S. = good news at ThinkProgress?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:18 amI'd suggest everyone read this tremendous article by Thom Hartmann.
He suggests not just rolling back the Bush tax cuts but the Regan tax cuts as well.
Remember when the tax rate was 90% on the obscenely wealthy? Remember when corporations paid 38% taxes instead of 9%? How come there's so much talk about a minimum wage but no talk about a maximum wage?
Thom makes a damn good arguement.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:21 amhttp://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/06/3003/
The new law expanding the Bush administration’s spying powers “gives Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales responsibility for creating the broad procedures determining whose telephone calls and e-mails are collected. It also gives McConnell and Gonzales the role of assessing compliance with those procedures.â€
Foxes well in control of the henhouse. Lunatics run the asylum.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:22 amWhen is this nightmare going to end? This hangover has lasted, now, almost 7 years.
Seems a hell of a lot longer…
Comment by Kay — August 7, 2007 @ 9:10 am
Have you given any thought to what Democrats would do when they have no one to blame? Well, you're right, they would still blame conservatives. Like in the new democratically controlled congress. Must be comfortable to be able to complain without having to offer solutions.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:23 amoh man, I'm tripping all over the filter today. and all I wanted to do was congratulate the train for stopping.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:24 amRemember when the tax rate was 90% on the obscenely wealthy?
Unless we start taxing the rich at 90%, we'll never get back to the good ole days of the Carter economy.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:26 amDoes anyone know if Ron Paul is part of the UTube debate yet?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:27 amIf you made 10 dollars an hour and the government took 9, what kind of incentive would you have to work harder (or work at all)? If the rich guy that owns the business that employees the people making 10 dollars an hour, gets 90% of his money taken by the government, what incentive does he have to operate the business that provides the jobs?
I love socialism as a concept, but in reality, it's a naive joke.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:29 amRepublican Bush trolls have spent the last 30 years trashing America and now they accuse those of us pointing out the fact that George W. Bush is turning America into Zimbabwe of talking bad about America.
Funny stuff.
-GSD
P.S. Will Mark Foley and Duke Cunningham deliver keynote addresses at the Republican Convention?
Maybe they can hire the Florida blowjob guy to do minority outreach.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:30 amHave you given any thought to what Democrats would do when they have no one to blame? Well, you’re right, they would still blame conservatives. Like in the new democratically controlled congress. Must be comfortable to be able to complain without having to offer solutions.
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:23 am
Like when you neo-cronies still blame Clinton?
You are stupid, even if you did spend the night at a Holiday Inn.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:30 amPaul... oh we'll get there. Once all the bills from the Iraq war come due. Our generation is going to be HATED by those that follow.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:31 amSquegee,
Yes, Paul was the first one to sign on.
Mitt The Flipper was the one saying that people need to lighten up and then said that Youtube wasn't serious enough.
-GSD
August 7th, 2007 at 9:31 amPaul do you read The NRO? Seems like the new smear talking point reference is Jimmy Carter, for just about anything.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:32 amIf they would impose some standards on the questions, then Mitt Romney would participate. I am sorry but having puppets or people dressed up in costumes that ask questions about the environment is demeaning to the candidates, the viewers, and to the environoment.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:33 am#11 Paul...Remember when we had money for bridges, streets, infrastructure, water systems, schools, hospitals etc.
Remember when we weren't 9 trillion in debt mostly to China? Remember when we weren't on the verge of fiscal collapse and catastrophe?
Remember when we had a vibrant middle class? Not just working poor and ultra wealthy?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:33 amThom makes a damn good arguement.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/06/3003/
Comment by Larry from C — August 7, 2007 @ 9:21 am
I think a tax increase like this would increase the population of the Cayman Islands substantially.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:33 amPaul… oh we’ll get there. Once all the bills from the Iraq war come due. Our generation is going to be HATED by those that follow.
Comment by Menehune — August 7, 2007 @ 9:31 am
No no no, we'll just borrow the money from India to pay back China.
Then when the India loans come due, we'll borrow from, I dunno, Kazakhstan.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:35 amGSD
Yes, Paul was the first one to sign on.
Groovy, thanks.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:38 amWhen Leahy, Conyers, and Waxman and others resume investigations, they will indeed be "show trials." There is no point in investigating the administration now, after they made the decision to pass the Protect America Act (it should be called The Enabling Act). They didn't even have to bring it up for a vote.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:39 amThey've given Bush everything and more than he asked for. These people in Congress aren't that stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing. What I can't figure out is WHY they did it.
Have you ever thought about how bad news for the U.S. = good news at ThinkProgress?
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Have you given any thought to what Democrats would do when they have no one to blame?
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:23 am
---------------------------------------------
You are suggesting that like sadists, we are getting some kind of perverse joy out of watching our world slide to h*ll in a handbasket. Wrong. It's our world, too. It would be a pleasure if TP was only able to post items about people getting the health care they need, honesty in government, bipartisan cooperation in Congress, reduction in global warming, and America being held in high esteem by the rest of the world.
Have you given any thought to what REPUBLICANS would do when they have no one to blame? We already know the answer to that one. As far as blaming others, we don't even come close to the right wing in that department. During the 2004 Republican National Convention, all the Republicans could talk about was how the evil liberals were to blame for everything wrong with the country -- despite the Repubs having control of the White House, both houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court. Even now that the Democrats have gained a pencil-thin majority in the House (not even enough to override a veto), and only a technical majority in the Senate (since the one Dem giving us that majority is still out sick), the Repubs blame the "Democratic controlled Congress" for anything that isn't meeting the approval of the American public.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:39 amMaybe they can hire the Florida blowjob guy to do minority outreach.
Comment by GSD — August 7, 2007 @ 9:30 am
Bill Clinton doesn't live in Florida.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:40 amAfter Gonzo's abysmal performance at the recent hearings in which he uttered contradictory and confusing statements (at the very least), he's put in charge of determining who gets wiretapped. Isn't that the epitome of hypocrisy?
It's like putting Sylvester in charge of Tweety's bird cage! What are they thinking?
Mitch McConnell is no better and will simply bend over to the desires of Gonzo who is bending over to the desires of the Chimp. It's one giant "bendover party" if you ask me.
Since Congress, The Chimp, and the Iraqi Parliament are taking a month's break from politics, so am I which is the most sane thing I've done for myself in a very long time. Why should we get our panties in a wad while they loll in some idyllic vacation paradise and care absolutely nothing about what they've just done to us?
I'd still LOVE to know how many of those Democrats who voted "yes" on the spy bill had airline tickets in their hand or travel plans which precluded this bill from being adequately debated?? To say that the "gang of 41" Dems have sold their soul to the devil is an understatement; they've certainly sold out the people in this country who trusted them to represent them, that's for sure.
On that cheery note, I'll say adios for the next month. After all, if no one in Congress cares about what's going on in this country's political landscape for one month, why should we?
Off to the pool!
August 7th, 2007 at 9:41 am"Remember when the tax rate was 90% on the obscenely wealthy? Remember when corporations paid 38% taxes instead of 9%? How come there’s so much talk about a minimum wage but no talk about a maximum wage?
Thom makes a damn good arguement.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/06/3003/
Comment by Larry from C — August 7, 2007 @ 9:21 am"
Remember that this isn't a Communist country, Larry from C? Remember when the economy was floundering under high taxes, rather than roaring along like it is now with low taxes?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:41 amHave you ever thought about how bad news for the U.S. = good news at ThinkProgress?
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Utter nonsense.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:43 amI just love how they give cute, warm, fuzzy names like "Patriot Act" and "Protect America Act" to legislation that erodes our freedoms. The terms "patriot", "freedom", "liberty", and "America" used to have positive meaning. They are fast becoming meaningless labels used to market toxins in new exciting flavors.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:44 amThen when the India loans come due, we’ll borrow from, I dunno, Kazakhstan.
Comment by toasterhead — August 7, 2007 @ 9:35 am
Like the French royal family's economic policies which worked so well just before the French revolution?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:44 amBesides, somewhere on the blogs yesterday Bush was quoted as saying that this 6 month bill is only the tip of the iceberg for the expanded powers he plans to design. Does this man believe himself to be an Emperor or what?
I no longer believe that we have a legitimate Two Party System; if we do, it certainly is no longer working in the best interests of the people. What I see is a melding of the two parties into one with Emperor Bush at it's helm.
That's why there's such a mass exodus from this country right now I guess.
Vote For a Third! No longer be Absurd!
Later, friends.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:44 amRemember that this isn’t a Communist country, Larry from C? Remember when the economy was floundering under high taxes, rather than roaring along like it is now with low taxes?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:41 am
Links to show the economy is doing well! Don't forget to include those which show Personal Savings at a 70+ year low, foreclosures at an historic high, poverty increasing. As well as the 9 trillion dollar debt.
NEXT LIE PLEASE!
August 7th, 2007 at 9:44 amHave you given any thought to what Democrats would do when they have no one to blame?
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:23 am
wow is that ever a great example of the pot calling the kettle black!! Coming from someone in the Republic Party - the political party that has made blaming Bill Clinton for everything since the day he took office. Paul seems to reaffirm my belief that the mean IQ of the Republic Party and its followers is slightly greater than that of a gnat.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:45 am"Paul… oh we’ll get there. Once all the bills from the Iraq war come due. Our generation is going to be HATED by those that follow.
Comment by Menehune — August 7, 2007 @ 9:31 am"
Baloney. Who paid the bill for WW2? And yet we still call those of the WW2 era: "The Greatest Generation"....
August 7th, 2007 at 9:46 amHave you ever thought about
Comment by paul — August 7, 2007 @ 9:18 am
No, haven't thought about it, paul.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:46 amMissmolly: G'morning. Yes, just like the deck of cards trick. Did you know that when the Chimp owned the Rangers he just had to have his mug on a card as the owner? With fake stats I'm sure. In his dreams!
Personally, their cutsey use of the 911 code is also part of their little head trip, along with the transparent names they give to each thing they do. They actually take the reverse of what the bill or plan does and name it as that to screw with people's minds even more.
Thank goodness they can't corrupt the minds of everyone - certainly people here are much smarter than any of them.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:46 amBen Dover: You must love Bush's giant "bendover party" then? hahaha!
As they say "it's about the economy, stupid" and the twisted neocons are screwing with all of those numbers as well. Believe nothing.
Headlines here told of giant mortgage companies filing for bankruptcy. O Bigfoot lives in the land or Ork where the economy may be booming; however, here if Bush's MSM propaganda megaphone was telling the people the truth, we are nearer a Depression again than anything.
Just go to our cities....ask the working class how they are eating these days. Just ask the right people.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:49 amBen Dover
What have you got against gnats?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:49 amO.Bigfoot, you're so right about the economy, even with the growth of federal spending at an all time high, think about the pork the Democrats can now reap after we stop spending on the war in Iraq. I mean after-all the GOP did preside over the largest expansion of the federal government, since when? So if the GOP can squander any amount of revenue and still fund a war it should be ok if the Democrats rape the treasury the way it has been done for the last 6 years and maybe even save some lives,huh?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:49 amBaloney. Who paid the bill for WW2? And yet we still call those of the WW2 era: “The Greatest Generationâ€â€¦.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:46 am
EVERYONE - corporations, individuals, hell even many foreign countries sold national treasures to pay for the war. Now in this war, only the middle and lower classes pay.
And they WERE the greatest generation, as they ALL sacrificed, from doctors to janitors, everyone wanted to sign up to fight. Now in your GOP 's "War of Our Generation" all you cowards hide in your basement.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:51 amRemember when the economy was floundering under high taxes, rather than roaring along like it is now with low taxes?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:41 am
Actually, it would appear the country did much better under Clinton. Once again, you are simply sucking on your "cigar".
Figure out the difference between levy and levee yet?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:51 am"I’d suggest everyone read this tremendous article by Thom Hartmann."
I really like and admire Thom Hartmann. He is the one person on the radio who consistently makes sense and has an incorruptible moral compass. It is really too bad that he isn't interested in entering politics because he would make a great legislator.
Another favorite of mine is Jim Hightower. He too would make a great legislator.
But, what we get are a bunch of rich white guys who love power and are willing to spend gobs of their own money to get that power.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:54 am"Today in Singapore, Al Gore..."
Right there. This is why the guy who lost is better than the guy who won. Al Gore doesn't need to be wrapped in a gaggle of White House lawyers to speak to the world, he can do it from freaking Singapore.
Stud.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:55 am"Links to show the economy is doing well! Don’t forget to include those which show Personal Savings at a 70+ year low, foreclosures at an historic high, poverty increasing. As well as the 9 trillion dollar debt.
NEXT LIE PLEASE!
Comment by PaulSux — August 7, 2007 @ 9:44 am"
How about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking? Or those that show consumer spending increasing? No reduction in travel despite high gas prices? Or those that show unemployment at an all time historic low?
No brag, just fact.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:56 am"Must be comfortable to be able to complain without having to offer solutions."
Since you live in a neoCON bubble of your own choosing, I see that you have missed the numerous solutions the Democrats have come up with since the start of the 110th Congress. But, very few of them are going anywhere because the Republicans filibuster them or Bush vetoes them. I am sure that you will call that "blaming the Republicans", but if the shoe fits....
August 7th, 2007 at 9:56 amHave you ever considered that some of our government's programs might be illegal, immoral, and unethical, and that standing up for due process might actually be a good thing for the US (us)?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:57 amA la Gov. Fletcher of Kentucky, the Detroit Free Press reported Michigan's Senate Majority Leader Mike Bishop (R) blocked a liberal political blog, Blogging for Michigan, from Senate computers. Various reasons were given, among them was this statement:
"The use of state time and taxpayer money to surf sites that are not applicable to the jobs staff were hired to do is not an acceptable use of state time or funds."
This appears to be partisan censorship since Bishop hasn't blocked access to all blogs. In fact, rightmichigan, a conservative blog is still accessible.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:58 amGeorge W. Bush could take a dump on a plate and there is a 26% group of Americans that would thank him for the fudge.
Talk about sheeple.
-GSD
August 7th, 2007 at 9:58 am"and the debt shrinking?"
What are you smoking? The debt shrinking? My god, you certainly are ignorant. Our debt has increased every year since Bush has been in office. We are now in a financial condition where China virtually owns us. If they were to call in the debt we owe them, this country would be in financial ruin.
If that is the kind of a fiscal situation you think is a good idea, you have more than a few screws loose.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:59 am"Figure out the difference between levy and levee yet?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 7, 2007 @ 9:51 am"
Yup, I mispelled one word, big deal. It still Googles. It's been addressed on that thread if TP put the posts back up. Otherwise I can email the response directly to you, or we can take the conversation somewhere we can actually have it.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:59 amLike the French royal family’s economic policies which worked so well just before the French revolution?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 9:44 am
I'm glad you brought up the French. They've had enough of socialism, elected a pro-American, pro-capitalism President.
The French are smart, experienced people. Why can't we learn from their mistakes.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:01 amI remember so well the Senate Watergate hearings conducted by an elderly North Carolina Democrat by the name of Sam Ervin. Sounding a bit like Senator Cleghorn from the Fred Allen Show (also cartoon character Foghorn Leghorn), the Senator described himself as a "simple country lawyer."
Just as he had you lulled into thinking that, this "simple country lawyer" with the Harvard education would launch into a pinpoint cross examination. The hearings were broadcast by the three television networks, and many people were rivited by them.
"What did the President know and when did he know it?" was the question Vice-Chairman Howard Baker (Republican of Tennessee) wanted to know. Senator Baker opted to put his country ahead of politics.
In this present time, the nation is starved for political heroes. Political considerations appear to trump the Constitution and the rights of citizens. There is a tendency to believe it was always like this. It wasn't.
Something I have been attempting to do is show the profiles in courage that earlier generations embodied. Perhaps if we can remember people like Sam Ervin and Barbara Jordan we can get back on track. We need their spirit more than ever.
The link I am providing goes to a page about Sam Ervin. Read some of the quotes and note how relevant they are to our current situation. Listen to the Senator and get a feel for his total respect for the rule of law.
One final thing: The amount of illegal activity that occurred during the Nixon Administration greatly affected the Senator. Before he left office, he was instrumental in setting the groundwork for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to protect the privacy of the American citizens. This is the very Act that Congress seems so willing to weaken.
http://www.massachusettsobserver.com/samervin.htm
August 7th, 2007 at 10:01 amO. Bigfoot--You card! This generation won't be called the "greatest" by anyone for any reason. This is the generation that could have stood up after 9/11 and made a difference but decided to go shopping instead. War bought on credit. Paid for with the sacrifice of the few. If this really is a defining struggle akin to WWII, we should go all in. Draft. Victory gardens. Rationing. Where's the Manhattan Project to get out from under the thumbs of the Sheiks and freaks like Chavez?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:01 amIf they were to call in the debt we owe them, this country would be in financial ruin.
If that is the kind of a fiscal situation you think is a good idea, you have more than a few screws loose.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 7, 2007 @ 9:59 am
China can't call in any debt, they need us to buy their products. If the US were really in financial ruin, the rest of the world would suffer more than us.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:04 am...I love how O. says that poverty is only increasing because they adjusted the number for inflation. Well DUH! Once upon a time, 10k a year was a good salary.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:05 amThanks to the policies of the likes of Reagan and Bush, the next decade is going to make the Carter years look like heady days, indeed. Too bad Republican ideas like borrowing everything we need will be impossible to implement due to our ruined economy and credit. Way to go.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:05 amRemember when the economy was floundering under high taxes, rather than roaring along like it is now with low taxes?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Hhhmmmm. Flounder. What's your favorite fish, Bigfoot?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:06 amHow about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking? Or those that show consumer spending increasing? No reduction in travel despite high gas prices? Or those that show unemployment at an all time historic low?
No brag, just fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:56 am
Home ownership is at an all time high, because the population has grown. Simple math for simple minds.
The poverty level threshold had to be changed moron, rent, food, clothes all cost more than they did 10 years ago.
Unemployment stats doesn't count those no longer able to collect. Rules which were changed by the bush administration to cover up the true rate of unemployment. Or those forced to work lower paying jobs.
What debt shrinking? We're 9 trillion dollars in debt, and Bush is looking to increase the amount we can borrow.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/14/news/economy/pluggedin_fortune/index.htm
August 7th, 2007 at 10:07 amThe Bush Cultists are using Karl Rove's math.
You know the math that told Rove the Republicans were going to maintain their hold on the House and Senate.
-GSD
August 7th, 2007 at 10:07 amHow about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking? Or those that show consumer spending increasing? No reduction in travel despite high gas prices? Or those that show unemployment at an all time historic low?
No brag, just fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:56 am
Did you make those stats up? Where are they? And how are all of those good indicators? Home ownership is up in part due to predatory lending. Tinkering with the poverty line to shift people out of poverty is really not a solution to poverty. High consumer spending is not necessarily a good thing if that spending is all on credit, which it is for many Americans.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:09 amComment by Menehune
I like how Big O. thinks the debt is shrinking...hahaha..what a moron. Someone should tell him that the yearly debt might be getting less but it's still a debt that adds onto the debt already there. He probably wouldn't understand anyway.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:09 amIs this lunacy intentional? Low taxes? Try high debt. What are the CEO types going to do for the likes of you when the national bill comes due? Got plenty of cash? Got foreign currency? Have enough money to immigrate? They do. You don't.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:09 amHow about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking?
I happen to be work on the website of a highly regarded South African newspaper. Its why I know so much about America, and American politics. My speciality happens to be business.
One: American personal indebtedness is up.
Two: The national debt has doubled under GW Bush. There have been no signs of it being paid off.
So where you get the idea that debt is down, I would really like to know because it doesn't appear to be from data from this planet.
As to the poverty threshold, I would also like a link backing up this claim seen as the debt claim is so easily dismissed.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:11 amI wish all you poor TPers would stay home on the weekends. Try to find a table at a nice spot on Saturday night.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:13 amWhere's all that wealth coming from, Paul? We're a consumer culture. It's financed by debt - not because we're greater and smarter than everyone else and god loves us best. If we had a National balance sheet, it'd be easy to show you the lack of balance. Without balance, things tip, and crash to the ground.
I suggest you keep spending. If you don't have the cash, use credit. Get more cards and use it all. You won't have to pay it back. God and the GOP will bail you out.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:17 amThe new law expanding the Bush administration’s spying powers “gives Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales responsibility for creating the broad procedures determining whose telephone calls and e-mails are collected. It also gives McConnell and Gonzales the role of assessing compliance with those procedures.
Yeah, this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Not.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:18 am#63...Yup. The tables are all full up with people. What are they paying with? Credit cards! Keep that economy rolling!
August 7th, 2007 at 10:18 amThe point to remember here is the GOP is the party responsible for the largest single expansion of the federal government in recent history. If they really cared about anything other than pure power for their Dear Leader and the Party they would have addressed Social security reform, immigration reform and healthcare. Wreck another country ignore domestic issues, other than pork for loyalty, and now turn the Democrats into the mean ole Jimmy Carter, tax and spend liberals. How utterly disingenuous.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:18 am"We are now in a financial condition where China virtually owns us. If they were to call in the debt we owe them, this country would be in financial ruin.
If that is the kind of a fiscal situation you think is a good idea, you have more than a few screws loose.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 7, 2007 @ 9:59 am"
And before China, it was Japan, and before Japan, it was some other country. We've always had national debt.
Same money shell game, different era.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:18 amI wish all you poor TPers would stay home on the weekends. Try to find a table at a nice spot on Saturday night.
Comment by s — August 7, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Dude, it's Tuesday.
Hungover....?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:18 amPredatory lenders are another reason for the high levels of homeownership.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:21 amSo, you don't mind suffering, as long as someone else suffers more? Are those Christian values you're touting?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:21 am"Yup. The tables are all full up with people. What are they paying with? Credit cards! Keep that economy rolling!
Comment by Menehune — August 7, 2007 @ 10:18 am"
Most people pay with credit cards to keep track of expenses or to take advantage of special deals.
And as long as we pay the cards, who cares?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:22 amweekends... ...Saturday night.
Dude, it’s Tuesday.
Hungover….?
Comment by Zooey — August 7, 2007 @ 10:18 am
weekends... ...Saturday night.
Dude, Still drunk?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:23 amAnd as long as we pay the cards, who cares?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Last time looked the average credit card debt was $8000.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:23 amIt's not getting paid.
Dude, Still drunk?
Comment by s — August 7, 2007 @ 10:23 am
I guess you are.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:24 am"Predatory lenders are another reason for the high levels of homeownership.
Comment by Zooey — August 7, 2007 @ 10:21 am"
Wrong, people buying houses is the reason for the high levels of home ownership. It's up to the individual to decide which lender to use, and to make the payment.
Every hear of personal responsibility?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:24 amThe Congress has rushed off for their month long vacation leaving America in ruins, symbolized by the collapse of the highway bridge. They also left Alberto Gonzales in charge to spy on the entire nation. Plus there might be a false-flag terror attack this month and Bush using that as justification to blame Iran then to bomb them.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:25 amLast time looked the average credit card debt was $8000.
It’s not getting paid.
Comment by Zooey — August 7, 2007 @ 10:23 am
People with that much debt shouldn’t use credit cards.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:25 amNumber of U.S. troops killed in Iraq in the last week, beginning a “wave†of violence after a “relatively low death toll in July.â€
Bollocks! There were four execution murders in New Jersey yesterday, is this a sign of a "wave of violence" soon to come?
You can almost hear the hope that more troops will be killed just so the media can say, "SEE???"
August 7th, 2007 at 10:25 amI see that Big O. has no response to the strapping he tookfrom his idiotic comment above. No links no facts...just more blah...blah.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:26 amAhhhhh - the old Shell game - key to national prosperity. Now that the housing pyramid scheme has collapsed, fraudulent tricks and a population stupid enough to play them are all we have left.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:27 amO. Bigfoot
Most RESPONSIBLE people pay with credit cards to keep track of expenses or to take advantage of special deals.
Fixed that for you. Most people use credit cards because they can't afford expensive stuff otherwise, but I'd say only a minority use them responsibly.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:27 amI guess you are.
Comment by Zooey — August 7, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Wow, I've reduced you to "I'm rubber, you're glue"
Sad.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:27 amleaving America in ruins, symbolized by the collapse of the highway bridge.
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
There are about 700,000 bridges in America, one collapses and this means America is becoming Bangladesh? You fuktwit.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:28 amUm...defauts and bankruptcies are at an all time high.
Shorter Bigfoot: Who cares if the gas pipes are leaking into the house? i happen to like the smell.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:29 amLollipop fool > do us all a favor and go jump off one of those decaying bridges.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:29 ams
Sad.
Well you never had an initial point, except that restaurants are busy on Saturdays. Why bother with a good response?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:30 amDont get mad, jay, be happy! :-)
Fuktwit.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:30 amYes, I have. It's not living on credit.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:31 am#27 O Bigfoot...Yes, all the issues I brought up in my post #19 mean nothing, correct? Bush's economy has brought massive pain. And we haven't even got around to paying back the 9 trillion we owe largely to China. I'm sure that'll be fun. What a great economy, living on credit.
Add to that Bush's record on job creation has been HORRIBLE. And wages have gone down over the past 6 yrs.
The Nasdaq is down some 250 points since Bush took office. His economy is a total wash.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:31 amMarcus Aurelius
Who cares if the gas pipes are leaking into the house? i happen to like the smell.
Thats a horrible analogy. A closer one, using gas pipes, would be who cares that all my neighbors houses exploded due to bad gas piping, because I keep mine repaired.
Which is still not that good of an analogy, but when life gives you gas leaks, make explosions.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:31 amChina can’t call in any debt, they need us to buy their products. If the US were really in financial ruin, the rest of the world would suffer more than us.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Famous last words.
And tell me, how happy are you with your substandard Chinese tyres, poisoned pet food and deadly children's toys?
And how are you enjoying that anti-freeze in your Toothpaste from South Afr1ca?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:32 am"Um…defauts and bankruptcies are at an all time high.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 7, 2007 @ 10:29 am"
The U.S. population is at an all time high, also. Your point?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:32 amPeople with that much debt shouldn’t use credit cards.
Comment by s — August 7, 2007 @ 10:25 am
Thank you for that blinding flash of the obvious.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:33 amGo find a life Lollipop, or go find a lover, but take your stupidity elsewhere.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:33 amOkay, dickweed: The percentage of bankruptcies is at an all time high. Your point?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:34 amYou can focus on "Doom and Gloom" all you want. I choose not to.
I'm old enough to have heard all of this before. Same statistics, different decade. The United States still stands, and will continue to stand until we are all long gone.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:38 amThe new law expanding the Bush administration’s spying powers “gives Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales responsibility for creating the broad procedures determining whose telephone calls and e-mails are collected. It also gives McConnell and Gonzales the role of assessing compliance with those procedures.â€
==================================
In reality, we all know that Gone-zo is not very bright and that he is nothing but a lackey who takes his orders indirectly from Karl Rove, so we also know he won't be "creating the broad procedures determining whose telephone calls and e-mails are collected" or "assessing compliance with those procedures".
August 7th, 2007 at 10:39 amYou can focus on “Doom and Gloom†all you want. I choose not to.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 10:38 am
You should change your name to Scarlett O'Hara.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:39 amEvery hear of personal responsibility?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Sometimes the combination of irony and hypocrisy that comes from the mouths of RNC representatives is simply sickening.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:43 amKeep fiddling while your party burns, Bigfoot.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:44 amI’m old enough to have heard all of this before. Same statistics, different decade. The United States still stands, and will continue to stand until we are all long gone.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
That was really moving. So patriotic...how you manage to be so eloquent and pathetic at the same time truly must take a lot of mental obtuseness.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:44 amVerbalKint
Sometimes the combination of irony and hypocrisy that comes from the mouths of RNC representatives is simply sickening.
How was his comment ironic/hypocritical? It seemed to be "Don't buy stuff you can't afford"
August 7th, 2007 at 10:45 am“relatively low death toll in July.â€
What relatively low death toll in July? 80 US soldiers and Marines were killed. When you include British and Coalition caualties you have 90 deaths, then if you add the contractors who are performing services that have historically been done by military personnel then you are over a 100 deaths.
Think Progress has to point out that the “relatively low death toll in July†was a NeoCon talking point and nothing more.
Check today's Salon article by Juan Cole for more.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:46 amAnd tell me, how happy are you with your substandard Chinese tyres, poisoned pet food and deadly children’s toys?
And how are you enjoying that anti-freeze in your Toothpaste from South Afr1ca?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 10:32 am
So far I'm unaffected.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:46 am"Most people pay with credit cards to keep track of expenses or to take advantage of special deals."
This is a truly insipid comment.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:46 amHow was his comment ironic/hypocritical? It seemed to be “Don’t buy stuff you can’t affordâ€
Comment by squegeeboo — August 7, 2007 @ 10:45 am
He means this:
And before China, it was Japan, and before Japan, it was some other country. We’ve always had national debt.
Same money shell game, different era.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 10:18 am
August 7th, 2007 at 10:49 amBruce Gorton
He means this:
Ah, good call, didn't think to combine the credit card/home loan comments with the national debt comments.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:50 amSo far I’m unaffected.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 10:46
If you are comfortable with sub-standard goods sometimes literally made under slave labour conditions (Chinese bricks for example) driving your businesses under as your country is, via economic blackmail, kept from doing anything about it...
August 7th, 2007 at 10:51 amWow! When were you born? 1904?
August 7th, 2007 at 10:52 amGood Morning Lady Z and all,..Noticed that the usual troll's are present and unaccounted for..Must be a reich winged thing...Still massive problem's with the TP site, skipped yesterday and so far today this site has crashed my puter 3 time's..
Can't even read all the post's...Sorry folk's, to much trouble to bother with...Untill the site is fixed will be absent and working else where...Blessings
August 7th, 2007 at 10:59 amIf you are comfortable with sub-standard goods sometimes literally made under slave labour conditions (Chinese bricks for example) driving your businesses under as your country is, via economic blackmail, kept from doing anything about it…
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 10:51 am
In the 1960s and 1970s, it was the U.S. economically blackmailing countries in Asia and Latin America. Now it's our turn. Ha! Sucks to be us.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amWhat We'd Like to See from Our Congress:
Oversight!
We want a Congress that carries out its Constitutional responsibilities to tax, fund, and oversee the execution of the laws of the land. We are tired of a Congress with blinders on, without the courage of its convictions (if any).
We want full and complete transparency in earmarking!
We demand a real ethics process with bulldogs and teeth in both the House and the Senate.
We want legislation that passes both the House and Senate and is not rewritten by the majority in camera after conference subverting the will of Congress.
We want an end to K Street bribery, including trips, comps, and we want the offer, delivery, and/or acceptance of favors to be felonies!
We want everyone to have, at a minimum, the same health plans as Congress (with contributions from workers and employers like that for government employees) with the government as the payer-of-last-resort for those without work or with low incomes.
We want the United States to renounce forever preemptive war.
We want habeas corpus reinstated for all!
We demand due process and equality before the law for all!
We must end torturing prisoners, including waterboarding which, in the past, we have prosecuted others for doing as a war crime!
We demand that the United States accord with international law and honor its treaty obligations.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:01 am"If you are comfortable with sub-standard goods sometimes literally made under slave labour conditions (Chinese bricks for example) driving your businesses under as your country is, via economic blackmail, kept from doing anything about it…
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 10:51 am"
Actually, I try not to buy Chinese if I can help it. I have my criticisms of the Communist Chinese and their slave labor practices. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do in the reality of today. Neither Democrat nor Republican seem all too concerned that we have sold/are selling China the rope with which to "hang" our manufacturing base.
At this point, it would be difficult to return a lot of manufacturing to the United States in an emergency, because we have shipped the tooling to China.
But is the "sky falling" over the United States because of it? No.
Can we blame Bush for this? No again. It's been happening through several Presidencies.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:06 amO. Bigfoot
America's China based debt reached record levels under Bush and only became a critical concern under Bush as he doubled America's over-all debt.
You want to make up stories about it being multiple presidents, it was Bush. Clinton actually managed to pay off about 10% of America's debt during his reign.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:09 amPeople with that much debt shouldn’t use credit cards.
Comment by s
damn right!
August 7th, 2007 at 11:35 amthey should just starve and suffer!
and who puts medical payments on a credit card anyway?
write a check like yer sposed to...
/duh/
Hey Junior . . . what say right after you release the prisoners . . .
you release the world from the results of your failed existence.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:37 amI see that Big O. has ...
Comment by dlet
aw c'mon! ... why do you wanna grant that one
August 7th, 2007 at 11:39 amsuch a nickname? ... that could've ruined it for me...
...
And tell me, how happy are you with your substandard Chinese tyres, poisoned pet food and deadly children’s toys?
And how are you enjoying that anti-freeze in your Toothpaste from South Afr1ca?
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 7, 2007 @ 10:32 am
So far I’m unaffected.
Comment by r — August 7, 2007 @ 10:46 am
It appears to be so ......You're just as stupid as you were last month , last year , and the year before that ..........
August 7th, 2007 at 11:42 amHow about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking? Or those that show consumer spending increasing? No reduction in travel despite high gas prices? Or those that show unemployment at an all time historic low?
No brag, just fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:56 am
If you want facts on unemployment, consult the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The real shocker is that among citizens 25 years old or older with a college degree, the unemployment rate has risen from 1.6% to 3.1% in the time span from January 2001 to July 2007.
August 7th, 2007 at 11:45 am[...]
Remember when we had a vibrant middle class? Not just working poor and ultra wealthy?
Comment by Larry from C — August 7, 2007 @ 9:33 am
i don't know much about the guy, but many of these puppies who post here are obviously great fans of that cramer money screamer...
August 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amthey are much too young, and their parents much too engrossed in their materialism, to remember and learn the lessons of grandma and grandpa
(who are fast dying away, or thought of as "quaint")...
sad...
How about those that show home ownership at an all time high, poverty increasing because poverty level threshold is raised, and the debt shrinking? Or those that show consumer spending increasing? No reduction in travel despite high gas prices? Or those that show unemployment at an all time historic low?
No brag, just fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 7, 2007 @ 9:56 am
As to the
August 7th, 2007 at 11:55 amhref="http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/feeds/businesswire/2007/08/06/businesswire20070806005310r1.html" rel="nofollow">American dream of home ownership.
Still massive problem’s with the TP site, skipped yesterday and so far today this site has crashed my puter 3 time’s...
Comment by Sharon — August 7, 2007 @ 10:59 am
are you still here, sharon?
i remember on my old imac, that i had to clear out old stuff, cookies, etc,
on a regular basis...
also, when things get weird and slow, i have to shut down completely, not just sleep, or even restart, to get back to speed...
maybe that will help, if you haven't already tried...
are you on safari? cause the macs really don't like navigator...
sometimes firefox runs better on certain sites or programs...
listen at me... sounds like i know what i'm talking about...
August 7th, 2007 at 11:58 amheh...
Comment by me — August 7, 2007 @ 11:55 am
Here's that link again:
http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/feeds/businesswire/2007/08/06/businesswire20070806005310r1.html
I do not know why it failed to format correctly.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:03 pmKaty, back between shut down's and Bear walk's..Yep! had to unplug 3 time's..Not on those program's...Do you have a new Mac.? Looking into getting one as soon as I save up the money..LOL.If I live that long...Blessings
August 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pmJob Growth Per Year Under Most Recent Presidents:
Johnson 3.8%
August 7th, 2007 at 1:08 pmCarter 3.1
Clinton 2.4
Kennedy 2.3
Nixon 2.3
Reagan 2.1
Bush 0.6
sharon - i have an imac, circa 04... but it's a newer model than yours...
which i had before this one (the cpu/screen combo, right?)...
well, i just know that the shut-down has solved my problems before...
i recently installed some new RAM, but did not notice much difference...
i don't think you need to physically unplug the thing, except in storms...
but, ya know... things only last so long... sounds like you got some very good mileage out of your old imac... ... what color? btw...
also, what kind of internet do you use?...
sometimes i think my older mac can't keep up with the broadband...
surely there are other mac-philes out there to help!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:33 pm?...
Why is someone trying to make a big deal out of the German soccer/football fans story? I don't get it. It's a funny story and I hope
August 7th, 2007 at 2:35 pmit was posted as such.
The ICE trains (as opposed to the IC trains) have a special car where they sell food and drinks. If something breaks...the call ahead at the next available stop for parts.
It is only smart to stop when you have a much larger "drinking" crowd on the weekends during football games. Imagine the only beer tap az an American football game breaking? NOT a pretty sight.
fritzritz
The last story is always something light.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pmAnd with regards to the CNN/YouTube debate, have the conservative bloggers and pundits (and this site's trolls) been denouncing the RepubliCON candidates for their refusal/reluctance to accept this debate in the same way that the Democrats who refused the FauxNews debates? I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:35 pmThe new British PM should set a date to withdraw all British forces from Iraq. This will put political pressure on Bush to withdraw all of our troops from Iraq. We can't win this civil war. The surge has failed. Bush's State Department won't publicly express confidence in Maliki anymore. There is no reason for our troops to stay in Iraq. We should not lose anymore American lives in Iraq, even one more is one loss too many.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:03 pmWe owe it to the families to fix the policy in Iraq as the current policy has failed. The fact that the Sunni coalition has abandoned Maliki government further indicates that Maliki can no longer make political progress which is the basis of the surge, thus the surge is pointless and has failed.
Al Gore is right, global warming is real and the people who continue to deny its legitimacy have connections to energy and car manufacturers. That is a direct conflict of interest. This leaves them with very little credibility.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:04 pmWe owe it to the families to fix the policy in Iraq as the current policy has failed. The fact that the Sunni coalition has abandoned Maliki government further indicates that Maliki can no longer make political progress which is the basis of the surge, thus the surge is pointless and has failed.
Al Gore is right, global warming is real and the people who continue to deny its legitimacy have connections to energy and car manufacturers. That is a direct conflict of interest. This leaves them with zero credibility on the issue.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:05 pmKaty, hope you see this note....My iMac is a 98 (year) turquoise(sp) color....When it screw's up or lock's up the only alternative is to unplug, replug in, it then run's a fix and can be restarted..Crazy, huh....I have high speed comcast now, because of the age of the puter not a lot of diffrence on some site's...TP has been the major problem in the past and present, no problem's with any other sites or serches...It has been a nightmare for over a month this time...Repeat of last year when I was banned.....My computer and I are not compatible with TP I guess......LOL...Blessings
August 8th, 2007 at 12:45 pm