Biden suggests bringing criminal charges against Bush administration ‘at a later date.’
By on Aug 9th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Biden suggests bringing criminal charges against Bush administration ‘at a later date.’
In a recent interview with Newsweek, Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) said he is opposed to impeachment proceedings because they would disrupt Congressional business. “But he has a pretty stunning Plan B“:
The alternative, and it’s taken me time to think through, I think we should be acquiring and accumulating all the data that is appropriate for possibly bringing criminal charges against members of this administration at a later date.
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All talk no action!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:20 pmHow wonderful would it be to see some of these jerks swing like saddam,after a fair and balanced trial of course.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:21 pmI like it. Should be plenty of evidence to work with.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:22 pmS1*t or get off the pot Joe.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:22 pmI’m interested in hearing more.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:24 pmWon’t work……
Impeachment is the ONLY path…..
Without Impeachment, Bush can still claim “Executive Privilege” and conceal much of the evidence……
By STIPPING him of the “Privilege”, only then can charges in court work!!!
Biden should know this, and probably does, and is just playing politics…..
August 9th, 2007 at 4:24 pmA). It’s about f*cking time. B) I’ll believe when I actually SEE it.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:25 pmWorks for me. How about The Hague as a venue?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:25 pmThe paradox of American policy in the Middle East – promoting democracy on the assumption it will bring countries closer to the West – is that almost everywhere there are free elections, the American-backed side tends to lose.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/09/africa/arab.php
August 9th, 2007 at 4:26 pm#8-Actually, I think Guantamano would be more appropiate.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pm“Criminal charges” = pandering to the Left’s kook fringe
August 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pm““Criminal charges†= pandering to the Left’s kook fringe
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:27 pm”
So what do you consider we do about the Crimes committed against the Constitution and the American People???
August 9th, 2007 at 4:28 pmSo what do you consider we do about the Crimes committed against the Constitution and the American People???
Comment by RemoveBush — August 9, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
-
What crimes?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI’ve been calling for both these past 3 years or so. Gotta get them, or the worst of them, out of office first, then you prosecute them. Since this is America, I would add that when they’re in prison they be given the best psychiatric care available, which is what most of them need.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pmDems, don’t say things unless you’re WILLING TO DO THEM.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:31 pmyou had to know THAT was coming, removebush…
August 9th, 2007 at 4:31 pmImpeachment is the definitive answer. Ipmeach Bush, Cheney and Gonzales. Three up, three down, inning over. The mechanism exists, the time is Way overdue, the path is clear. If only Congress remembers its Duty to the Constitution and the Nation and Impeaches Bush, Cheney and Gonzales and Saves the Constitution!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:32 pmIt would be wonderful to see Bush and Cheney stripped of power and marched out of their offices. But honestly, don’t see it happening. They have slowly took over the media, the legal system the Supreme Court, all the members of the House who will step forward? Even our voting rights are in doubt when Ohio keeps finding hidden votes or lost votes. And that is just one instance.
We are in more serious trouble than anyone cares to realize.
.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:32 pm“What crimes?
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:30 pm”
- Fraud against the American People….. (Lies to get us into a war in Iraq)
- Warrentless Wiretapping!!!!
- Torchering AMERICAN citizens
- Preventing American citizens from their RIGHTS to Habeas!
I could go on, but these should be enough!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:33 pmPeter Abelard = Another Sockpuppet of Mr. P/CT/VV/Daryll.
Says the same old tired thing.
Again…we get tired of your bullsh!t, so we mock you and laugh at you. Next?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:34 pmRemoveBush,
Just as I thought. You got nothing.
You can’t bring charges against the Pres., he has done nothing wrong.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:34 pmLooks like I spoke too soon.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:34 pm- Fraud against the American People….. (Lies to get us into a war in Iraq)
He had faulty intell., he did not lie. No crime was committed.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:35 pm- Warrentless Wiretapping!!!!
How is that a crime?
We need to keep the Motherland safe.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pmPersonally I would advocate an international court for the hearings and put Cheney, Bush and the rest of them on trial.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pm- Torchering AMERICAN citizens
Say whaaa?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pmSame old tired sh!t posted by Peter Abelard/CT/m12/Mr. P/etc.
He didn’t have faulty intel. He had cooked intel. There is a difference.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:37 pm“a later date” — gotta get in our vacation first.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:37 pm– Preventing American citizens from their RIGHTS to Habeas!
He has protected us from enemies, domestic and foreign. No crime.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:37 pm“You can’t bring charges against the Pres., he has done nothing wrong.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:34 pm”
Tell that to the other presidents that have had charges brought against them……
You Repubs tried to Impeach Clinton on a PERSONAL matter, but refuse to acknowledge the crimes that this president has done because he is a Rebublican…….
I really frown on people saying this, but I believe in this case it is warranted…..
You are a TRAITOR!!!! Standing against the COUNTRY and standing for PARTY is a TRAITOR!!!!
NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW, not even the president!!!!
So if YOU were a true American, you would step back and look at the FACTS and then stand up for the country, not a party.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:38 pmRemoveBush? The word you want is Torture. Torcher might fit under Torture, and I could see Cheney in his favorite garb (BDSM outfit, complete with hood, spiked club and barbed whip) holding a torch over an Arab dude, screaming ‘TALK, YOU FILTHY RAGHEAD!’ ;)
August 9th, 2007 at 4:38 pmSo is TP banning again? None of my comments appear.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pmtried to Impeach Clinton
Americans did impeach Clinton.
He lied under oath.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pmGreat post! Keep up the good work! Wow! Two thumbs up!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pm“He had faulty intell., he did not lie. No crime was committed.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:35 pm”
Wrong!!!!!
Is INTEL was not faulty!!!!!! Bush only read the parts of the Intel that he wanted to read!!!! That does NOT make the Intel FAULTY!!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pm“Criminal charges†= pandering to the Left’s kook fringe
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Great post! Keep up the good work! Wow! Two thumbs up!
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — August 9, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
Thanks!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pmHe had faulty intell., he did not lie. No crime was committed.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
Yawn, New troll, same shit. Office of Special Plans, created the intelligence which was disputed by many other intel agencies, including the Germans, Czechs and the CIA (Curveball, steel tubes, Atta in Czech meeting etc, etc). And no the intelligence was not all shared to Congress as Rockefeller pointed out.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html
The lies:
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/iraq_lies.html
Spend some time on this. But I doubt you have the personal integrity and honesty to do so.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pmBiden suggests bringing criminal charges against Bush admin.
Bush: “I fu(kin’ DARE you, Joe!”
Biden: “No, no, sir, I was just suggestin’ that someone ELSE bring charges…not me.”
Bush: “Didn’t think so…punk!”
August 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pmWell I give up. I’ve tried 5 times now to post a comment on Joe Biden, contantining no profanity and no insults or anything unappropriate and it just doesn’t show up.
Biden is a good man.
People should listen to him.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pmThis is exactly the approach to take – for as long as it takes to ferret out the broad and systematic criminality of Mayberry Machiavellis.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:42 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — August 9, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
Of course not. Peter Abelard isn’t a new troll. His current persona will be laughed out of the forum, and he’ll just make another one, like the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that….
August 9th, 2007 at 4:42 pm“Thanks!
Comment by Peter Abelard”
I see you’ve skipped ahead a few centuries, rather not wallow in the blacker holes of christianity?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pmNot telling the whole truth is considered lying in a court of law – hence the oath.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pmI like the way this guy thinks!
When you get them to realizing they could be called on their bullshit out of office when they don’t have as many ways to block an investigation, then we’re talking!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pmKiss E_I dead on the mouth.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/ Iraq/ Story/ 0,27- TtT
This is nothing but a smear piece.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmMr. Pee Pee is scrolling down the list of historical christianists to find his new screen names.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmBiden – you are a windbag. Pack in posing.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:45 pmHe’s also the one who put da’ ram in da’ rama-lama-ding-dong. Now, that’s a crime.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:45 pmYou freekin’ pervert. I don’t swing that way, so stop trying to come on to me.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:46 pmhttp://www.tvnewslies – TtT
Is that the best source you’ve got?
Biden will look like a fool quoting from that webpage!!!
heYoo!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:48 pm!-!.!.!-!
This is nothing but a smear piece.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Is that all you have – attack the messenger? The Guardian is a sound journalism product. You lose again tosser. Next up: Thomas Aquinas gets his rhetorical arsehole shafted by a green turtle on a blog.
Next troll please this one is useless. I need my money back.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:48 pmSo if YOU were a true American, you would step back and look at the FACTS and then stand up for the country, not a party.
Comment by RemoveBush — August 9, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
If you were a true American, you you would stand up for America, and not your party! You are traitor for not standing by your president in a time of war!!! The enemy loves you. They love hearing your voices. It gives them hope. Just go ask them! Democrats are weak on defense of this country. Thats why they love you so much! Putting your head in the sand and doing nothing as Bill Clinton did, does not solve problems. If the enemy ever does win the war, women and homosexuals will have more rights than they currently have now! Muslims love their women and homosexuals. They also love free speech!!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pm“Biden is a good man.
People should listen to him.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 9, 2007 @ 4:41 pm”
He may be, but his approach is SERIOUSLY FLAWED!!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pmAll talk and no b*lls.
Joe, do us all a favor and take some action. Stop talking. OK? And wake me up when you really do something.
Same goes for all you Dems we elected to power. None of you have done anything that We The People demanded. Shut up! and GET TO WORK on what we told you was important!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pmI think the ‘later date’ would occur after they leave office, where they can’t hide behind executive anything.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pmAfter the trials here, we can rendition them to the Hague for the rest of the world to take their justice.
Oh, and pardons are ‘off the table’…
August 9th, 2007 at 4:50 pmIs that all you have – attack the messenger?
—-
I’m not attacking you or the Guardian. But that article contained nothing but speculation as to what the “shadowy” agency was doing.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:50 pmI am disappointed in Senator Biden who I have supported for a long time. This idea of bringing criminal charges at a later date is an ugly attempt at relinquishing leadership. For the sake of the viability and legitimacy of our Constitution, impeachment must be brought to the floor of the Senate. Smoke and mirrors to avoid the issue is what the Senator from Delaware suggests. Cowardly, Joe, cowardly.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:51 pmYeah – I could have chosen a Pulitzer prize winner, John Pilger or perhaps a sourced Mother Jones timeline to help keep it all on track.
http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/
You got dick, Mr P.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:51 pmWould it be Attorney General Biden??
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmComment by Johnny Swank — August 9, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
That guy makes me sick. On the thread below he claimed that alKaida was justified for the 911 attacks. He is the true traitor, he doesn’t even deserve a response.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmIn the first patient, Peter Abelard, we have a particularly good example of a situation which probably occurs in the unconscious of many sexually confused men: the attachment of the term “Mother” to inanimate objects.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pm“I think the ‘later date’ would occur after they leave office, where they can’t hide behind executive anything.
After the trials here, we can rendition them to the Hague for the rest of the world to take their justice.
Comment by RUCerious — August 9, 2007 @ 4:49 pm”
But they can hide behind “executive privilege”!!!!
That is why they need to be stripped of that RIGHT to use it.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmThe only way to get Bush is to destroy the economy stupid! You have to do it before he leaves office though. Start raising taxes and demand more pork barrel projects and you might succeed. It’s the economy stupid!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmRumsfeld, Cheney and Tenet need to be tried by the international criminal court for war crimes committed in the practice of torture, murder of prisoners, and rendition to secret prisons.
The only way to atone for the American Gulag is to have the ICC try these war criminals. Perhaps then we will have restoration of our respect for the rule of law and it will be up to the next president to turn them over to the ICC.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmSee what I mean?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:53 pmBut that article contained nothing but speculation as to what the “shadowy†agency was doing.
Bullsh*t – there’s a congressional investigation going on which is quoited in the article saygin exactly what was happening. Stop making a fool of yourself – change your posting handle and try again.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:53 pmBut they can hide behind “executive privilegeâ€!!!!
Not after they’re out of office they can’t?/?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:53 pmYou are traitor for not standing by your president in a time of war!!!
Johnny’s Wank
Hey Johnny’s Wank, Teddy’s calling you out:
“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country.â€
-Theodore Roosevelt
“To announce there must be no criticism of the President, and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, it is morally treasonous to the American public.â€
– President Theodore Roosevelt
So Johnny;s Wank: are you unpatriotic, servile, morally treasonous or all three?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmYou got dick, Mr P.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 9, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Sorry. But do you have anything that does not feature a photoshopped picture of Bush riding a bomb like the poster for Dr. Strangelove?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmWow! I’ve never heard anyone state the case for avoiding undercooked meats quite so clearly.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmIsn’t Biden on the intelligence committee? He may have a greater understanding of evidence that can’t come out right now. And he doesn’t there are others that do.
Impeachment isn’t the only tool to use against these tools.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmAbelard,
August 9th, 2007 at 4:56 pmStop drinking the kool-aid.
“Not after they’re out of office they can’t?/?
Comment by RUCerious — August 9, 2007 @ 4:53 pm”
Sure they can……
Have you heard of Presidential Libraries???? They can stick all those documents in there and they can’t be opened until many years down the road…..
August 9th, 2007 at 4:57 pmAbelard,
Stop drinking the kool-aid.
Comment by USMC6002 — August 9, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
—————
I like Gatorade.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:57 pm2 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1 pound beef stew meat, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 small onion, chopped
2 stalks celery, thickly sliced
2 cloves garlic, finely chopped
1 can (14.5 ounces) recipe-ready diced tomatoes, undrained
1 cup water
2 small carrots, peeled and thickly sliced
August 9th, 2007 at 4:58 pmHey Peter Hardlyable,
Who exactly do you think the enemy is that loves listening to our voices?
August 9th, 2007 at 4:58 pmNo. But my neighbor has a really big ball of tin foil.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:59 pmThat is what the International Court at the Hague is for. Give them the evidence on the vice prez and the performing monkey and see what they can do with it.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:00 pmComment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Your lack of personal integrity is clear.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:00 pmNever going to happen, they own the courts, the media, the votes.
You could catch Bush with a goat and his believers would say, “didn’t happen”
We will be lucky to get a clean vote in 2008.
I’m telling you we need a 3rd party !
August 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pmYour lack of personal integrity is clear.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 9, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
—-
If you are going to talk about bringing criminal charges on the President, you’re going to need more than a few kooky websites.
Do you think that Clinton was Impeached because of an animation of Monica sucking him off posted on the internet?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:03 pmThey need to be charged with criminal stupidity and ignorance!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pm“Kooky websites” – the Guardian, Mother Jones, John Pilger, The Times (Downing Street Memo).
You however have absolutely nothing to show for you efforts but attacking the messenger.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=The_case_for_impeachment_of_President_George_W._Bush
I’m not advocating criminal charges, except at the Hague, for Bush for War Crimes. This article fully sourced and linked summary of the ‘Case for Impeachment’.
If it takes giving Bush a blow job to get him shipped to the Hague, sign me up, I’ll do it.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:08 pmWell I’ve smoked enough troll for today, the sport has waned.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:10 pmBiden is all talk and no action, he NEVER causes anything to happen. If he would spend more time in the Senate and less on TV he might accomplish something. We have Actors turned politiican. This is one politican that should turn actor.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:14 pmImpeachment is supposed to interrupt the work of Congress. It is so important that everything else must be put aside. It is more important to remove Bush, Cheney & Gonzo than anything else. After the Senate finds them guilty, the proceedings move to the courts as required. Congress only has the authority to remove them. The Court tries them and sentences them.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:15 pmTHEN, the troops can be brought bake home for the Mexiscum border.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 9, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Sorry, but based on evidence from wikipedia, no one is going to the Hague.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:15 pmDo it!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pmSo Johnny;s Wank: are you unpatriotic, servile, morally treasonous or all three?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 9, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Don’t you find it ironic that the domocrats also voted for this war you hate so much. Bush was not alone in this endeavor; please remember that! The very people who funded and voted for this war, are now not supporting it for political gain. I think Teddy would be ashamed at what is going on in American politics these days. The far left and the far right are destroying this country!
I could argue that i’m none of the above, but who cares.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:18 pmRe: Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) said he is opposed to impeachment proceedings because they would disrupt Congressional business.
Well, so does taking a month-long vacation, Joe. Don’t see you rushing to get back to Washington after a week off.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:19 pmComment by Marcus Aurelius — August 9, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
Perhaps one of the most hilarious posts Ive read.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:21 pmYou can’t bring charges against the Pres., he has done nothing wrong.
How would you know? You say that as if you actually know something. So, how would you possibly know?
Wishin’ don’t make it so.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmImpeachment won’t save you: the twenty-second amendment will.
Biden has the right approach… an investigation into every law that these jerks broke would take 18 months at least.
Its better to document the behavior of the swaggering chimps while they are in full-blown arrogant mode. Punishment will never happen until they have have the political capital to do so.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmhiding behind EP and failing to disclose the evidence in the Tillman case is so sickening, so debase I can’t believe I forgot that one.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:28 pmThere are SO MANY crimes being committed it’s hard to keep up.
right you are bex.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:29 pmHe had faulty intell., he did not lie. No crime was committed.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
————-
No he didn’t.
The director of the CIA was told not to include “intelligence” gleaned from Curveball (an informant who in the end was not trustworthy) in Powell’s speech to the U.N., yet it was there anyway. One of many lies.
See http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,462782,00.html for more info.
Another involves the “gathering threat” of Iraq attacking America. Go read the Duelfer Report (Google it), specifically the section entitled “Strategic Intent.” In it you will find that the last thing that Saddam wanted to do was to tangle with America, especially militarily.
I’m sure that you are also aware that the weapons inspectors were pulled out of Iraq by Bush…not kicked out by Saddam…so that Bush could invade. Had the inspectors been able to complete their job, they would have found out what we now know, and many suspected from the beginning: there were no WMDs.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThe alternative, and it’s taken me time to think through, I think we should be acquiring and accumulating all the data that is appropriate for possibly bringing criminal charges against members of this administration at a later date.
They should be acquiring, accumulating, and cataloging all the data anyway. But, it will be a lot easier to serve subpoenas on this jerk once he’s out of the White House. And,a lot more people will be willing to talk, because they won’t have to worry about the administration getting back at them.
I would strongly recommend Congress figure out a way to keep the Bush crime syndicate from shredding all the paperwork and wiping disks before they go. You know they’ll do it and just say “Oops.” Congress should make sure that even an “oops” gets prison time.
I have to say, as much as I don’t trust Biden to actually follow through on something like that, at least he said it. And none of the other candidates have.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:32 pmwhen chicken is in Paraguay and the shooter is in the UAE?
Senator Biden, you should be sending both of them to the Hague right now and you talk about things in the future?
this is disgusting and sounds like it is coming out of snowjob’s mouth. or it will be in a week or two.
resign Joe, your mind is gone and you a criminal conspirator
August 9th, 2007 at 5:33 pmHow is that a crime?
We need to keep the Motherland safe.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
———————-
It’s a crime because it is illegal. Period. Lindsey Graham and Arlen Specter both said so, among others.
Bush will get a warrant to spy on a domestic-to-domestic call; apparently he has plenty of time to do so. But he will not get a warrant on a domestic-international call. Why? Because there isn’t enough time and a terrorist may get away. Bush cannot explain the difference.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmBiden is very wrong, here’s why:
The straightforward reason why impeachment is a mandate to return to a working democracy is no matter what legislation Congress passes, Bush will veto it, ignore it, or add a dubious “signing statementâ€, making unilateral claims he may disregard it or claim the bill is “unconstitutional”, plainly bypassing the judicial process of the Supreme Court, as well.
As many historians have appropriately point out, not even King George III of England had or assumed these kinds of authoritarian powers.
Impeachment is the only remedy, not an option!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWell, yeah – I do. So, what of it?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmBut what about Bush jr’s flawless legacy?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmBiden is assuming that there will be an election in 2008.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:39 pmComment by WC — August 9, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
I’ve been reading it since you last suggested I do.
It supports the view that Saddam was an eccentric despot. If I may quote from the cover page of the section you mention:
More than anything, the report explains that Saddam was concerned with accumulating Chemical weapons to use against Iran and Israel.
But, as you know, bullets/chemicals/etc. don’t discriminate.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:39 pmPlease. The same people that brought us MORE Iraq funding, removed the wording forbidding an attack on Iran in the same bill, “caved” to Bush on FISA (caved my ass, they are consciously complicit), the MCA, etc…they are going to do all this after Bush is gone to set to rights all that Bush (and Cheney) did wrong? HAH! Dream on.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:41 pmWC,
Also Saddam targeting Israel DID indicate that he wanted to attack us.
From the Report:
August 9th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
While impeachment should remain on the table. I’m all for bringing criminal charges. The US attorneys firing scandal can provide the justification for criminal proceedings.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:42 pmAlso Saddam targeting Israel DID indicate that he wanted to attack us.
From the Report:
Saddam, however, portrayed the United States and
Israel as inseparable and believed Israel could not
attack Iraq without permission from the United
States
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
You don’t know how to read English, obviously.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pmWC,
More from the report:
August 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
They won’t be able to touch Bush after he leaves office, moves to his new 100,000 acre spread in Northern Paraguay where they won’t extradite for political offenses.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pmBush knows he is teflon coated. I am sure he will have his own private army there to protect him.
“The US attorneys firing scandal can provide the justification for criminal proceedings.
Comment by Probus — August 9, 2007 @ 5:42 pm”
It already has, but I have YET to see Tim Griffin arrested!!!!
Voter Caging is a DIRECT GO TO JAIL FEDERAL CRIME…….
Conyers has been given the emails containing the caging lists and yet nothing has been done.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:46 pmWC,
More from the report:
August 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Your destroying your own point. Saddam was talking about self-defense. A mind is terrible when it’s wasted, as in a wingnut’s head. Saddam certainly spoke with more truth than either you or Bush.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pmPublic statements, intensified research and development, production, weaponization, and dispersal of WMD suggest that Saddam sought the option of using WMD strategically before and during Desert Storm. He hoped to prolong the war with the United States, expecting that the US population would grow war-weary and stop the attack.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Again, you’re putting the lie to your own point. the report “suggests”, but it didn’t happen. Straw man up, straw man down.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:49 pmBut, as you know, bullets/chemicals/etc. don’t discriminate.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
Apparently stupidity doesn’t either.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:51 pm“dispersal of WMD suggest that Saddam sought the option of using WMD strategically before and during Desert Storm. He hoped to prolong the war with the United States, expecting that the US population would grow war-weary and stop the attack.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:47 pm”
OK….. Now I know your REACHING!!!!!
Information was obtained after Desert Storm that most of the WEAPONS were in fact destroyed during that attack….. There may have been a FEW that were missed, but nothing that was a THREAT to the US!!!!
By the way….. Isreal IS NOT THE US!!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmIve been screaming RICO for months now.
It’s about F-ing time!
RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:54 pmRICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!
RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!
RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!
I have to believe that those who still swallow the Kool-Aid of Bushco, have no clue about the history of what has happened, and how this war was planned and orchestrated long before Bush came into office.
It is the thinking of the blind and deaf or the very young, who have come of age in Bush’s America:
Read about that here:
August 9th, 2007 at 5:55 pmtest
August 9th, 2007 at 5:55 pmStop feeding the mfin trolls. They are not here for an honest debate, just to jerk you around.
don’t get punked by Mr.P clones.
Now, as for Biden; I do not dislike him but I don’t trust him either. If any Dem. says they favor some action, or write intimidating letters (Leahy) or promise to start impeachment proceedings if just 3 more congress members sign on (Conyers), assume it’s rhetoric. They need to act; enough talk you invertebrate bastards.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmRemoveBush: “By the way….. Isr[ae]l IS NOT THE US!!!!”
It is if your name happens to be Joe Lieberman (I = Israeli).
August 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmBiden = presidential poser
August 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmSaddam was a crazy despot, who knows what he would have perceived as a threat!!! Thank God GW Bush took him out!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
“Comment by J Lewd — August 9, 2007 @ 5:56 pm”
True, or Chertoff……
August 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pm“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to
August 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pmrestrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to
restrain the government — lest it come to dominate our
lives and interests.”
— Patrick Henry
“Saddam was a crazy despot, who knows what he would have perceived as a threat!!! Thank God GW Bush took him out!
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:57 pm”
Peter, your a PUSSY!!!
Time to change your diaper again, because just the mention of Sadam has made you soil the one your wearing…..
August 9th, 2007 at 5:59 pm“Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives
August 9th, 2007 at 5:59 pmpeople harder than a fear of sudden death.”
— Adolpf Hitler
“fascism – A system of government that exercises a
August 9th, 2007 at 6:03 pmdictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the
merging of state and business leadership, together with
belligerent nationalism.”
— The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983
I was responding to a post from WC, but that commentor seems to have left.
Sorry.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:03 pmSarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about
August 9th, 2007 at 6:07 pmwhat we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased
down in the streets and lynched.”
— George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McClendon in 1992
“Comment by funky p — August 9, 2007 @ 6:07 pm”
Can you post the link????
I have heard about this but I have not seen it.
Thanks
August 9th, 2007 at 6:14 pmAlso from the report, Pete:
Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability—which was essentially destroyed in 1991—after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion,
irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
• Iran was the pre-eminent motivator of this policy. All senior level Iraqi offi cials considered Iran to be Iraq’s
principal enemy in the region. The wish to balance Israel and acquire status and influence in the Arab world
were also considerations, but secondary.
————-
Hmmm…Iran was the motivator of the WMD policy…not the U.S.
Interesting.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:17 pmHave you heard of Presidential Libraries???? They can stick all those documents in there and they can’t be opened until many years down the road…..
Comment by RemoveBush —
All the searching I’ve done on executive privilege, nothing mentions documents sealed in a presidential library. The courts would get to decide, and if they used Nixon as precedent, the claim would be denied.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:18 pm“All the searching I’ve done on executive privilege, nothing mentions documents sealed in a presidential library. The courts would get to decide, and if they used Nixon as precedent, the claim would be denied.
Comment by RUCerious — August 9, 2007 @ 6:18 pm”
Bush has sealed his dads records for years, I forget how many, so I believe it is possible…..
I’ll do a search and get back to you…
August 9th, 2007 at 6:21 pmThis week, two of the least trusted men in America extended their dubious records of accomplishment. Last night in San Francisco, the steroids-scandal tainted Barry Bonds added to his record home run total by swatting his 757th round-tripper. And this morning in Washington, George W. Bush held a rare press conference before commencing his annual August vacation, a recess which will pad his dismal presidential record for most days off.
For the details, see:
August 9th, 2007 at 6:22 pm“Bush, Bonds Extend Dubious Records.”
More from the report:
Saddam did not consider the United States a natural
August 9th, 2007 at 6:24 pmadversary, as he did Iran and Israel, and he hoped
that Iraq might again enjoy improved relations with
the United States, according to Tariq ‘Aziz and the
presidential secretary.
—
“nothing mentions documents sealed in a presidential library. The courts would get to decide, and if they used Nixon as precedent, the claim would be denied.
Comment by RUCerious — August 9, 2007 @ 6:18 pm”
Here you go……
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/03/elec04.prez.gop.dean.ap/index.html
“Dean told ABC’s “Good Morning America” Monday: “You don’t actually get to seal the majority of records, just those sensitive parts that apply to other people. President Bush sort of takes the cake for his sealing. He actually had his sent, as I understand it, to his father’s presidential library, where there’s a 50-year seal.”"
August 9th, 2007 at 6:24 pmYes, Biden is right on track.
It will be much easier to get him for war crimes and other illegal activity than to impeach him.
Sadly their aren’t enough honest judges left in DC.
Bush does belong in prison and the sooner the better.
jack jett
August 9th, 2007 at 6:25 pmhttp://www.jackejett.com
That’s it. I’m done for now quoting the D. Report. Pete, like another troll from a few days ago, has failed to show that Saddam was a gathering threat to the U.S. and had to be taken out immediately.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:26 pmHere is even more information on it….
http://www.slate.com/id/2130445/
The Presidential Records Act of 1978 made White House papers public property. Each president’s papers now go to the National Archives at the end of his term. They remain sealed for up to five years while librarians sort them out. Under the terms of the act, former presidents can choose to seal documents relating to security, personal matters, trade secrets, federal appointments, or confidential communications for another seven years. After this initial 12-year period, archivists handle all pages in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, which has its own similar special exemptions.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:26 pmA famous Bush comment, “dictatorship is alright, as long as I am the dictator.” 2004
August 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pmSorry.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Very!
August 9th, 2007 at 6:32 pm#136
Bush has sealed his dads records for years, I forget how many, so I believe it is possible…..
That was done by executive order. It can be undone by executive order.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pmHmmm…Iran was the motivator of the WMD policy…not the U.S.
Interesting.
Comment by WC — August 9, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
——
It doesn’t matter who the motivator was.
Weapons don’t discriminate.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmComment by chimpeach — August 9, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
August 9th, 2007 at 6:37 pmCHIMPEACH!!! CHIMPEACH!!! CHIMPEACH!!!
OOoo… OOoOO…. OOooOOOoO…
AAaAAAaAH!!!!! AAAaAAaAHH!!!!!!!! aAaAAAaAAaAAaAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a problem when people like Biden seem to think that Congress can’t do more than one thing at a time. Besides, there is no reason for Congress to continue to legislate because the Republicans will filibuster anything Bush doesn’t like and then if somehow the Democrats are able to push a bill through, Bush will veto it.
I think that Congress should spend it’s time restoring our confidence in our Government by impeaching the lot of them. If they don’t, they will be setting a terrible precedence for future presidents, even Democratic Presidents.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:39 pm136 – 2001 Bush issued Exec Order 13233 which blocked records of Reagon and GHB. This order gave sitting President authority to prevent the release of past presidential and present presidents and v.p records.
http://www.teachablemoment.org/high/secrecy (seven pages of how much classification is now going on up 81% since 2004.
This very useful site – Previously records belong to the public and must be available no more than 12 years after president leaves office.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmCan you post the link????
I have heard about this but I have not seen it.
Thanks
Comment by RemoveBush — August 9, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
I have seen this quote in several locations including wikipedia, where they characterize it as a sourced quote, but do not give the source!
August 9th, 2007 at 6:50 pmI also found it on a site examining the JFK Jr. death. Reporter MCclendon believed GHW Bush met with the Iranians prior to the election of Reagan, to get them to hold onto the hostages until after the election. She was an interesting lady, and along the lines of the venerable Helen Thomas.
You can google her name with GHW Bush and find multiple hits.
Don’t feed the trolls! No matter how stupid and desperate they are. They are paid by Karl Rove to go on Progressive sites and cause ‘confusion’. He saw how the Republicans butts got kicked in 2006 and knew it was a firestorm that came together on the Progressive sites. So, his plan is to PAY some stupid 23 year old kid who just graduated from Pat Robertson U (or whatever) to come on these sites and antagonize. He actually thinks this will work.
Just ignore them and they will go away. When you respond, Karl thinks his little plan is working.
P.S. Maybe one of them is Jeff Gannon, one of Karl’s personal favorite ‘news persons’!
August 9th, 2007 at 6:55 pmHere is the troll manifesto.
The White House’s own recently de-classified strategy for “winning the war on terror” targets Internet conspiracy theories as a recruiting ground for terrorists and threatens to “diminish” their influence.
In addition, the Pentagon recently announced its effort to infiltrate the Internet and propagandize for the war on terror.
If you are not getting paid, you are getting played.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:58 pmThey even got some of you to do their work for free.
Useful idiots indeed.
Comment by newpantaloons — August 9, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
Synchronicity; I posted mine before I read yours. Do great minds think alike?
August 9th, 2007 at 6:59 pmAt least we Progressives don’t have to PAY someone to state our views!
August 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmAnd, yes, great minds do think alike. And, not so great minds don’t seem to think about anything at all.
All talk no action!
Comment by criticalthinker #1
…Smoke and Mirrors…
August 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pmTime to start taking action, Joe.
August 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmOn my way down to the comment section I noticed that many of us have the same thought — take action now — when it could mean something. Time for talking is over.
Every now and then I hear that someone in a position to act has read comments on certain blogs — I hope someone in Biden’s office is reading this thread.
BTW Is Biden really serious about being president – or is he really interested in a cabinet position?
August 9th, 2007 at 8:35 pmJoe,you’re on to something.
August 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmNow get off your fat, stupid. lazy, political ass and DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Marie #157
…judging from the last “Hillary” (crowning) debate…
…Biden would be her hairdresser…
…if asked to serve….
August 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmBiden suggests bringing criminal charges against Bush admin
not gonna happen
August 10th, 2007 at 2:09 amAs chairman of the powerful Foreign Relations Committee he could put together a subcommittee just to investigate these legitimate claims. He can start with the justification for starting a preemptive invasion into Iraq for the false claim that Iraq had WMDs. And since articles of impeachment can only be brought up in the House he could investigate criminal charges and turn over the committee’s report to the House counterpart subcommittee.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:47 amIt doesn’t matter who the motivator was.
Weapons don’t discriminate.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
—————–
The point you keep missing is this: other than tying the U.S. to Israel, you have failed — in using the Duelfer Report — to show that Iraq was a “gathering threat” to the U.S. Bush would have us believe that Saddam’s dream of restarting his WMD programs was directly aimed at the U.S. (”mushroom clouds” and all that).
Based on what I have read in the report, the information supports this basic premise most people were saying from the start: we invaded Iraq based on insinuations and suggestions of what Iraq and Saddam might do.
Was Saddam a threat to the U.S. when we invaded? No. Would he have been a threat in the future, had we not invaded? Who knows? But you can’t go around invading countries and throwing out their leaders because of something that might happen. Bush didn’t let the weapons inspectors finish their job. Iraq had actually been in the process of destroying outlawed missiles, under the watchful eyes of the U.N., when we invaded (it’s in the Report). And Tyler Drumheller, a former CIA agent, has said that he told George Tenent to NOT let info gleaned from “Curveball” be included in Powell’s speech to the U.N. Tenent said he’d take care of it; the informant was not trustworthy. The info was in the speech anyway. It was faulty intelligence, yes, but the administration was warned to not use it. They ignored the warning because it didn’t support Bush’s desire to invade Iraq.
August 10th, 2007 at 7:24 amLet the German government have them all!
August 10th, 2007 at 8:16 amSen. Joe Biden (D-DE) said he is opposed to impeachment proceedings because they would disrupt Congressional business.
Just what business is that Joe ?
Oh, you mean the business of NOT doing what they were elected to do?
Or are you speaking of the business of giving this fu(king criminal administration what ever they want ?
You sure as hell wouldn’t want to disrupt that would you ?
Better keep this fine Congress in business Joe .
Have a cookie with your tea and keep watching cnn .
You’ve really got it covered .
The alternative, and it’s taken me time to think through, I think we should be acquiring and accumulating all the data that is appropriate for possibly bringing criminal charges against members of this administration at a later date.
The operative word there being POSSIBLY.
August 10th, 2007 at 9:57 amYou clowns can’t even call their crimes illegal, let alone ‘bring criminal charges’.
You wanna bomb Iran? Go ahead.
You wanna spy on the American people? Be our guest.
You wanna extend the Iraq invasion until you leave office? Well of course, we’ve helped with that since November .
In short Joe, you dems have zero credibility.
Crawl back into your box and extend your vote for this admin. whenever possible.
Maybe they’ll find you a cushy job .
FINALLY!!!
This is an excellent idea!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 5:22 pmExcellent suggestion: The President, VP, and DOJ Staff can be prosecuted. Outside Congress. Outside impeachment.
This is an excellent idea.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:23 pm“bringing criminal charges against members of this administration at a later date“
Why not now?
August 10th, 2007 at 5:24 pmOh Joe.
Just leave me alone.
August 11th, 2007 at 9:25 pmJoe, this is why you have 2% or less in the Democratic Presidential Polls. You are talking bullsh*t and you know it.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:12 pmIf Washington, Franklin and our other Revolutionary leaders were living today, they would buy guns, raise an insurgent army and attack the White House and Congress and hang nearly everyone they could catch and then call for a Constitutional Convention. They would also force much of the South out of the Union for inbreeding “Git ‘er done!”
Then they would adopt a more Parlimentary form of government and preclude any corporate contibutions to elections and limit personal contributions to $200 and fund elections from the general treasury. Also, screwing with germandering (Tom Delay et al) and jiggling the ballot box would be punished by death.
Yes, we’d go back to a Republic by the people and for the people.