O’Hanlon/Pollack Rebuffed By Travel Companion Cordesman: ‘I Did Not See Any Dramatic Change’
O’Hanlon/Pollack Rebuffed By Travel Companion Cordesman: ‘I Did Not See Any Dramatic Change’
In their infamous New York Times editorial, Brookings analysts Michael O’Hanlon and Ken Pollack alleged that “significant changes [are] taking place” in President Bush’s escalation, potentially ushering in a “sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with” in the future.
Center for Strategic and International Studies military analyst Anthony Cordesman, who accompanied O’Hanlon and Pollack on the trip to Iraq, recently published a report expressing a difference of opinion.
In a briefing today, Cordesman further elaborated on his disagreements with the Brookings analysts and asserted that there has been little change in Iraq:
I did not see any dramatic change in our position in Iraq during this trip. Many of the points, the problems which exist there are problems which have existed really since late 2004, if not earlier. I didn’t see a dramatic shift in the ability of the Iraqi’s to reach the kind of compromise that is almost the foundation of moving forward. […]
But I also want to stress another thing. I did not see success for the strategy that President Bush announced in January.
Watch it:
While O’Hanlon and Pollack claimed “many of the corrupt and sectarian Iraqi commanders who once infested the [security] force have been removed,” Cordesman observed the opposite. “The security forces are more divided, facing more problems in terms of alignment with Shi’ite factions than I had expected to see, even for the army.”
Cordesman added: “It is clear, that in some ways our intervention in Iraq has allowed the Sadr militia and Shi’ite extremist groups to operate in terms of sectarian cleansing with more freedom than they had in the past.”
Later in the briefing, Cordesman slammed O’Hanlon’s plan calling for a “soft-partition” of Iraq into three distinct regions, stating that such an effort would be “brutal, it is repressive, it kills people, it injures them, it drives them out of their homes, and it drives them out of their country. To talk about this as if it was something that is gentle or nonviolent is simply dishonest.”
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90 Responses to “O’Hanlon/Pollack Rebuffed By Travel Companion Cordesman: ‘I Did Not See Any Dramatic Change’”
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The 5 dollar rugs, man!!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmI can’t wait for the Kurds to join in on the fun.
August 9th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe preamble of posturing prior to Petraeus.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:00 pmI guess they weren’t expecting the other people on the same trip to say they were full of shit.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pmCordesman, who accompanied O’Hanlon and Pollack on a trip to Iraq, recently published a report expressing a difference of opinion.
Nah. They all were really saying the same thing.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pm“…ushering in a “sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with†in the future.”
Total ruin of a country and it’s infrastructure could easily be a definition of a “sustainable stability”.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pmNo electricity, no sanitation, no food, no commerce, no people….
Sounds like a suitably static state……..
Didn’t we have this same thread yesterday? I am glad someone is pointing out that those two asshats are full of it, but do we need to rehash it?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:02 pmobviously he’s a fajit.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:05 pmNah. They all were really saying the same thing.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Nah. You just choose what you want to hear.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:05 pmNah. They all were really saying the same thing.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Nah. You just choose what you want to hear.
Comment by Namtillaku — August 9, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Nah. I read both pieces, and both said the surge worked militarily.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pmI heard it too. Do you think it’s a Chupacabra?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:08 pmIt’s what they didn’t say that’s important. Wouldn’t you agree?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:09 pmUh Oh, someone forgot to give him the memo.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:10 pmNah. I read both pieces, and both said the surge worked militarily.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
by the white houses own admission 3 of the 4 goals to stabilize Iraq, are political goals, not military goals. While the military surge may be working, the political surge has pretty much failed. Look at the recent reports of Iraq reps leaving the government.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:11 pmby the white houses own admission 3 of the 4 goals to stabilize Iraq, are political goals, not military goals.
The Iraqis have failed politically.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:13 pmYou can put a fish in water, but you can’t make him drink.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pmThe purpose of the surge was to stablize parts of Iraq so the government could get itself together, wasn’t it? If the government has failed, isn’t it time to draw down the troops?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:17 pmYou can dance under water and not get wet, oh!
- Psychoalphdiscobetabioaquadooloop
August 9th, 2007 at 5:19 pmThe Iraqis have failed politically.
Comment by Peter Abelard
I have to agree with the troll here.
They should have had WMDs, AlQaeda links before 2003, the 500,000 civilians already killed and the Oil Ministry open like a cheap stripper club. That would have helped a lot.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:19 pmThe Iraqis have failed politically.
Comment by Peter Abelard
No the Bush Administration has failed….. miserably.
Just as you have failed intellectually, Mr. Pee-Brain
August 9th, 2007 at 5:19 pmNah. I read both pieces, and both said the surge worked militarily.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
So what? We’re killing more Iraqis? That’s a great strategy. Nothing but idiots and mass-murderers running the USA into the sand.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:21 pmNah. I read both pieces, and both said the surge worked militarily.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
As I said, you believe what you want to believe, factual or not. When the facts go against authoritarian types such as you, nah not true.
Superstitionist, fascist, traitor. I only wish there were a hell because I’d have some comfort in the fact you’d be there upon dying. Oh well.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmAstute. Do you have any other talents (that might be of value to someone, somewhere)?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThe Iraqis have been politically quite successful, in that they haven’t sold out their country to the fascist thugs of Big Oil. In the eyes of the wingnuts, political success would mean genocide and full control of the oilfields.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmSo let’s cut to the chase, shall we? Is the Toy Emperor’s spreading of “democracy” working or not???
As much as KKKarl would like to spin this, Iraq is a failed occupation. It’s only a matter of time before the soldiers who were sent to Iraq by ReichWingNuts have to come home. They’ll be chased from that country if we try to stay there long enough.
Why not just bring our sons and daughters home now? Dems? WingNuts (… though you guys never clean up after yourselves… but one needs to ask just the same… in the event you ReichScrewTards have had a peek at reality… and maybe found some moral fiber somewhere…)?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmwow… I thought it was really gonna work this time.
more bombs less soldiers. that’ll fix it.
good thing Condi sold all them guns and bombs to al qaeda through Saudi Arabia. I’m sure that’s going to pan out well.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThey should have had WMDs, AlQaeda links before 2003, the 500,000 civilians already killed and the Oil Ministry open like a cheap stripper club. That would have helped a lot.
Comment by Juan C — August 9, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
Yes!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:24 pmComment by 911-was-an-InsideJob — August 9, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Ha!
You’re doing satire, right?
It’s hilarious!!!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pmthe Iraqis have been politically quite successful, in that they haven’t sold out their country to the fascist thugs of Big Oil. In the eyes of the wingnuts, political success would mean genocide and full control of the oilfields.
Comment by ronjazz
umm.. did you see the oil bill we gave them demanding their oil? Ted Kennedy is such a saint!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pmwow… I thought it was really gonna work this time.
more bombs less soldiers. that’ll fix it.
good thing Condi sold all them guns and bombs to al qaeda through Saudi Arabia. I’m sure that’s going to pan out well.
Comment by old hack — August 9, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
My point EXACTLY!
It’s GOTTA work in Iran. The odds are with us. We can finance the whole thing with tax cuts.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pmCondiLogic: If we sell them guns, maybe they’ll leave us alone.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:27 pmyea just like Ol Benjamin Laden really worked out to our bennefit.
Why don’t we just give them the code to our nukes and just let them fire them from here
August 9th, 2007 at 5:30 pmDefine “doing”.
If it means what I think it means, and is being used in the context in which I think you’re using it, it’s either disgusting, or inept.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:31 pmWhats odd is I just saw this AP supposed “story” about “Bush’s critics now seeing progress” on Yahoo.
The stories disappeared now but it was just a rehash of the Ohanlon and Pollack story.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:32 pm“Nah. I read both pieces, and both said the surge worked militarily.” - Comment by Peter Abelard
“But I also want to stress another thing. I did not see success for the strategy that President Bush announced in January.” - Cordesman
You’re a LIAR, blowhard. I just proved it. Stupid Repuke troll.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:34 pmThe NY Time and WaPo are just as bad as Rupert Murdock. Their neocon bias is evident and their “news” cannot be trusted.
How far the mighty have fallen!
August 9th, 2007 at 5:38 pmBush strategy. Ignore Pakistan where Al Qaeda has taken refuge. Create new AQ refuge in Iraq.
Ignore Saudi Arabia who supplies most of the suicide bombers in Iraq and give the Sunni/Basthist insurgents ammunition and money.
Brilliant.
-GSD
August 9th, 2007 at 5:40 pmIf we pull back what will happen ? Car bombings, Sunnis torturing Shia, no electricity, no water, no schools, no hospitals that have medical supplies? Oh thats happening now.
How can any of you who want our military to keep dying every day sleep at night ? Do you still believe we are fighting over there to not have to fight over here? Our borders are being over run with more than illegal Mexicans. Talk with a Border Agent see who they are catching.
We need our military HERE protecting our borders, our National Guard HERE helping during floods.
It is all of our faults, there was no marching and protesting so we all share the blame for the wounded and dead, sons and daughters and Iraqis.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:40 pmRove engineered smear of Cordesman in 3…2…1…
August 9th, 2007 at 5:42 pmthere was no marching and protesting…
That’s a breathtakingly ignorant thing to say. Hundreds of thousands marched in the streets trying to prevent this fiasco:
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Protests_against_the_2003_Iraq_war
August 9th, 2007 at 5:43 pmWhat! O’Hanlon and the Codfish are wrong?
August 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pmHow can that be?
Oh, right, they’re NeoColonics. They seem to have trouble looking at a situation and gleaning anything but their preconceived answers from it.
Even though Saudi Arabia isn\’t Muslim (according to a troll, they said so), they aren\’t allowing non-Muslim religious items in the country, or the items will be confiscated. Good thing Saudi Arabia is not Muslim.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pmFacts are wasted on the willfully ignorant. You have to swat them in the nose with a rolled-up newspaper (The Washington Post is a good one - it serves no other purpose, and only costs a quarter).
August 9th, 2007 at 5:48 pmIf we pull back what will happen ? Car bombings, Sunnis torturing Shia, no electricity, no water, no schools, no hospitals that have medical supplies? Oh thats happening now. Comment by texaslady
Well,…..uhh,……..Gee,……….BBBut if we pulled out now, I would have lost a war, and Daddy is already pretty pissed at me. Might not give me another toy to play with, like my two oil companies I ran into the ground. And I want to be known as the bestest President ever……. This is just not fair! I try and I work real hard, …..maybe like 12 hours…. a month!
What more do you want from me, anyway?? Maybe I’ll just go to Mom’s basement/bunker in Paraguay and take Barney with me,…… then the bad people won’t be able to get me……….YEA!! That’s hat I’ll do!!
YIPPEE!!!!
(Random thoughts of Dubya)
August 9th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWe need our military HERE protecting our borders, our National Guard HERE helping during floods.
Well we can agree on something. I say leave Iraq and let the savages have at it between themselves; this may be shortsighted but I dont give a shiite (no pun intended) about their centuries-old religious war anymore.
Maybe its time we allow Allah to glean his followers for a few years, Im tired of ALWAYS having to deal with an entire region of tenth-century retards.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:51 pm(Random thoughts of Dubya)
Comment by upside00 — August 9, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
Thanks for adding that, I just assumed it was you.
Its nice to be back.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmShare the blame? Like we should all share the blame for slavery, even though we live 300 years after the fact? I will share no blame for what the Bush administration has done and will keep doing in Iraq. It is Bush’s war/occupation and it is squarely on his shoulders. I will do everything within my admittedly limited power to make sure Bush and his henchmen are either hanged or do serious prison time for their heinous war crimes and crimes against humanity. I wonder how these unconvicted criminals are going to fare when, and if, they are finally out of office. And the so-called weak-kneed opposition party, the Democrats, are also complicit as Bush’s agreeable enablers and that includes Hillary Clinton.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmAs for the Iraqis, pea-brain, you may recall that their “centuries-old religious war” was on hiatus before Bush’s ill-conceived, ineptly executed invasion. This violence is Bush’s fault.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:55 pmWell, it’s probably easier than dealing with a teenager.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmAnd the so-called weak-kneed opposition party, the Democrats, are also complicit as Bush’s agreeable enablers and that includes Hillary Clinton.
Accessories to the crime, you might say. Does your admittedly limited power give you the strength to build a looooooong line of gallows?
Though I must disagree with your assessment of your power; unless you are a parapaledgic you have the power to get a firearm and take matters into your own hands and stop this ‘criminal behavior’.
I just figured you would agree to that since you have seemingly designated yourself judge and the accused as guilty before even having a trial. So get to it, Dredd.
August 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pm47 -
Let’s hope the new congress (2008) passes laws that will allow the victims of Bush and Cheney to have their day in court.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:00 pmAmericans would like to see Bush/Cheney do some time.
As for the Iraqis, pea-brain, you may recall that their “centuries-old religious war†was on hiatus before Bush’s ill-conceived, ineptly executed invasion. This violence is Bush’s fault.
Ya, and the benevolent Saddam somehow kept that in check with a kind word here and a butterfly kiss there.
Ever wonder, with your limited intellect of course, how 80% of Iraq’s population could be so thoroughly persecuted by the other 20%? Hint for the fools like you: it wasnt through hugs and kisses.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:02 pmThanks for adding that, I just assumed it was you.
Its nice to be back.
Comment by LibTeenie
Nice to see you again, too, Lib!
August 9th, 2007 at 6:03 pmMan it gets old. They tell the lies then the truth comes out and people still believe the lies. If it is all that good why isn’t Murdoch investing in Iraq’s media outlets? or Billo or Hannity purchasing property in Iraq? I honestly believe these sadistic bastards want this genocide to continue indefinitely.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:03 pm47 - Yes we all share the blame for this war. I wrote, called did what I thought I could do. But I did not march, I did not join with others who wanted to stop Bush. There had to be more and I failed.
We are not talking slavery or whatever, we are talking about young Americans with families and futures that want to come home, not be sent out each day not knowing if they will die or lose a limb.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:04 pmAmericans would like to see Bush/Cheney do some time.
Comment by RagingGurrl — August 9, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Community Service, say 60 years to life, in Baghdad, maybe in the worst slum we can find.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:06 pmComment by Pod — August 9, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
So you are saying that taking out Saddam because he was a “not nice person” was the reason we illegally invaded Iraq? You are so full of bullsh!t, you could be from Texas.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:07 pm#52: Don’t smear me as a defender of Saddam, doughbrain. I said the sectarian violence was in abeyance before Bush’s idiotic invasion, and it true. I would only add that the disintegration of the central government, and consequent rise of civil violence, was 100% predictable.
Rightwingers can’t win wars. They don’t have what it takes: regular contact with reality.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmI wonder how these unconvicted criminals are going to fare when, and if, they are finally out of office.
Comment by timeisart — August 9, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
They’ll probably end up at the AEI as “scholars”. Bastards.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmAmericans would like to see Bush/Cheney do some time.
Let me input “Americans” into my handy-dandy LibSpeak Translatorâ„¢…hold on….
Ah, here we go, the correct meaning is: “The 8% far-left moonbat turds who consider themselves a national movement”
August 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmby the white houses own admission 3 of the 4 goals to stabilize Iraq, are political goals, not military goals.
The Iraqis have failed politically.
Comment by Peter Abelard — August 9, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
and cheney/bush were the enabler guys
August 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmThe 8% far-left moonbat turds who consider themselves a national movement
Zogby: more than two-in-five voters (42%) say they would favor impeachment.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:11 pmAmericans would like to see Bush/Cheney do some time.
Comment by RagingGurrl — August 9, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
do some time?
August 9th, 2007 at 6:12 pmyou’re much too kind!
So sorry 55.
The Republicans would LOVE for you to take the blame for their war. I’m not going to do that and neither should you. Iraq is squarely on Bush’s shoulders and those who support him.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:13 pmNot those who marched, made calls, wrote emails, against this war and fought everyway we could. We spoke up even when doing so got us labeled as “Traitors.”
Nope - this is a Republican War, started by a Republican president - and they OWN it.
do some time?
you’re much too kind!
Comment by LividLib
How about a 6 hour daily dose of waterboarding, and include Gonzo. That would make for great UTube watching!
And it is all OK, since waterboarding is nbot torture, right?
August 9th, 2007 at 6:14 pm#40 - No there was not the marching that was done to end Vietnam. I have been through both. We had occasional protests but alot was blocked by the media or downplayed. You can quote Wikipedia, I tuned every day and night and the outpouring was not there.
People buy the stupid yellow ribbon and think that is supporting your military. How about demanding some answers so that there is NO MORE KILLING.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:15 pmRaging Girl - We cannot just hope the new Congress will do something they have to hear us.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:18 pmLibTeenie, you are coming onto a liberal site to call liberals:
“far-left moonbat turds”?
Classy.
Calling people names won’t make it “ALL” go away, sweetie.
We know you are hurting deep inside. The rot has taken over and it’s killing your soul. Just breathe. Go back to Hot Air, suck up some lies to give you the courage to get through another day.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:22 pmCordesman is right, no political progress has been made. The surge has failed because no political progress has been made. The whole point of the surge was to enable Maliki to make political progress. Maliki is incapable of making progress no matter how many troops Bush sends to Iraq. O’Hanlon and Pollack who falsely claim to be “war critics” tried to paint a rosy picture which is quite different from the reality on the ground.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:31 pm67
Of course, you are right! For starters, I vote, email, sign petitions, call, make videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZlxBTVxINM), send money to causes and candidates that are in this fight, volunteer for progressive causes. I made a congresswoman cry a few months back after laying into her for voting to approve funds for the war.
And after all that, I hope.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:31 pm#66 - No there was not the marching that was done to end Vietnam. I have been through both.
So was I. And I also remember vividly how street protests subsided quickly after the draft was eliminated in 1972. No draft = no riots in the streets. It’s that simple. If the US still had compulsory military service, Bush would’ve been impeached already.
August 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pmGuess who’s LYING?
August 9th, 2007 at 7:38 pmTP Satyam didn’t realize that Cordesman has also SLAMMED CAP/Larry Korb’s Strategic Reset as being absurd and childish.
Cordesman: The Tenuous Case for Strategic Patience in Iraq
“The idea that the US can some how simply stand aside and deal with Al Qa’ida or the Sadr militia by relying largely on air power and Special Forces is equally absurd. The US could not target, it could not cover the country, it could not secure its bases, and it would lack the force numbers to act decisively without relying on Iraqi forces. Such concepts are little more than childish in practical military terms.”
Well, Larry Korb did have to admit in recent congressional testimony that he was “not a military expert”.
August 9th, 2007 at 7:38 pmProgress?
We don’t need no stinkin’ progress.…
Check out this Iraqi woman’s blog on the reality of day to day life in Baghdad/Iraq.
August 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pmTroll Score: Peter Abelard 20 everyone else 74. Looks like he is going to win again. Why do you keep feeding this troll. Do you really think that you are going to change his mind? He has no mind to change!
August 9th, 2007 at 8:48 pmI like poking him with a stick!
August 9th, 2007 at 8:50 pm“I like poking him with a stick!
Comment by Marcus Aurelius “
Why, so you can muck up another thread to the point where it is not worth our time to try to weed through all the crap to find some honest discourse?
What does it accomplish? Does it make you feel important? Does it make you feel witty and intelligent? All it does is take you down to their level.
August 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmIt was not an EDITORIAL they wrote, it was an Op-Ed piece, emphasis on the “op.” Editorials are on the facing page and come from the Times’ own editors. Kind of a critical difference.
August 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pmO’Hanlon’s “soft-partition” is really no different from the Gelb-Biden Plan. here’s a link to the WSJ piece they wrote in the Fall proposing a federalized Iraq (http://tinyurl.com/2ygdpd).
August 9th, 2007 at 11:25 pmIt depends of what the meaning of “Progress” is!
August 9th, 2007 at 11:31 pmCordesman is drawing a line between CSIS and Brookings. I wouldn’t waste too much mental activity trying to conjugate the differences between O’Hanlon/Pollack & Cordesman.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:58 amCordesman gains credibility in his honest assessment while O’Hanlon and Pollack’s assessments are nothing more than neo-conservative fabrications that have nothing to do with the reality on the ground.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:50 amProbus,
You make some of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard.
Cordesman, O’Hanlon, and Pollack say the exact same thing! All three say that the surge worked militarily and that now it is up to the Iraqis to come through politically.
Did you read any of the articles, or are you just skimming through the lies that TP puts in the headlines?
August 10th, 2007 at 4:43 am>All three say that the surge worked militarily
quote for cordsmen please? … please note… “signs it might possbly succeed” is not equal to sucess
August 10th, 2007 at 5:12 amWe can no longer win militarily in Iraq. Maliki is incapable of making political progress in Iraq. The surge was supposed to give Maliki enough room to make political concessions. He has not done this. Thus the surge has failed. No number of troops can ensure that political progress will be made. The Joint Chiefs of Staff did not support this surge because they knew it would fail, it has.
August 10th, 2007 at 6:03 amFraud Thompson ‘08
August 10th, 2007 at 1:31 pm“Another GOP Disaster”
Is our government ever planning to send diplomats to talk with other countries about Iraq? Are we going to ask the UN to jump in? Why aren’t we talking to Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Kuwait? Does the Bush white house have any options beyond the use of force???
We’re in Iraq to build a massive US Embassy and to construct a slick underground oil pipeline around Iran. Our government is being run by a Texas Oil Man…what did you expect would happen when we invaded?
The USA will have armed forces in Iraq for the next 25 years…
August 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pmBush in his promdrss feels no need to court anyone. He’s king and queen. . . .prefers to dance solo.
9-11 two-step.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:08 pmIf only Laura would divorce him and write a tell-all on the peanut.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:12 pmKARL ROVE HAS SUBMITTED HIS RESIGNATION.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:11 am