Rep. Bill Sali: Religious Diversity In Congress ‘Was Not Envisioned By The Founding Fathers’
Rep. Bill Sali: Religious Diversity In Congress ‘Was Not Envisioned By The Founding Fathers’
When Idaho State Rep. Bill Sali was running for Congress in 2006, Vice President Cheney visited his state and said, “Bill is ready to make a difference in Washington, and he’s going to be the kind of Congressman who will make you proud.” Now-Congressman Bill Sali (R-ID) is demonstrating his worth by criticizing the new religious diversity embodied in the 110th Congress:
We have not only a Hindu prayer being offered in the Senate, we have a Muslim member of the House of Representatives now, Keith Ellison from Minnesota. Those are changes — and they are not what was envisioned by the Founding Fathers.
Really? Sali may want to take a peek at Article VI of the Constitution, which notes that there is no religious test for public office:
Sali’s not alone in his bigotry. In Dec. 2006, shortly after Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) was elected as the first Muslim congressman, Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA) warned that “American citizens” need to “wake up” or “there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office.”
Last month, protestors belonging to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America loudly interrupted the first Hindu prayer delivered in the Senate. Sali said that when a Hindu prayer is offered, it “creates problems for the longevity of this country.”
UPDATE: MahaBlog notes that Thomas Jefferson argued strongly for religious freedom.
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F**KING MORON
August 10th, 2007 at 10:02 amWow, like DC had a shortage of nut-jobs before this guy crawled out from under his rock.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:03 amHe's elected folks. Now we know the neighborhood.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:05 amAhhhh, the tolerance of the religous right.
Ignore the constitution, ignore the teachings of Jesus.
Can I get an A-MEN!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 10:05 amPity that Thinkprogress has driven some posters away by their lack of policing their site. If Zooey wasn't being stalked, she might have been around to comment on this dirtbag.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:07 amAmen, Terry. BTW, Sali is an idiot.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:08 amHere is a link from TPM
August 10th, 2007 at 10:08 amhttp://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/08/idaho_congressman_disturbed_by.php
Maybe the founding fathers couldn't have fathomed such a diverse society or the reflection of that society in the halls of Congress (I personally doubt it). More importantly in that statement is the overwhelming fear that the neo/theocons have in losing a white majority.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:10 amLOL! wait......... R O T F L M G D A O !
August 10th, 2007 at 10:10 amWho among us is surprised that a Republican would be an ignorant, hateful, antiAmerican bigot? Who among us doesn't want to see the GOP destroyed and outlawed? this guy is just the tip of the iceberg, and should be targeted for total defeat and humiliation. He should run for president of North Korea, although they might find him a bit extreme.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:12 amAnother dimwitted rightwinger wiping his backside with the Constitution...what else is new?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:13 amSali is a card-carrying member of the American Taliban.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:13 amThe day can't arrive soon enough when white men are in the minority, and I say that as a white man, albeit with a touch of Native American blood from way back.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:13 amBen Franklin was one of the main Founding Fathers.
Ben Franklin helped build a house of worship in PA...
This is what he had to say about that building and its purpose...
"Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. "
-Ben Franklin
http://www.pioneernet.net/rbrannan/whitefield/bfongw.htm
The great thinkers of early America were not rightwing nut jobs... they were theists and unitarians ... they were not far removed from the times of christianity being violent and deadly and abusive much more so than today...
August 10th, 2007 at 10:16 amEurope did not start its Renaissance and acceleration in all fields of science until it was able to put limits on church's involvement in Europeans political life.
Only after the power of church in Europe was reduced,Europe was able to flourish in all fields of science,art and general knowledge.
United States decided also not to let the church run the political life in America.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:16 amBut the church is getting stronger and richer now and the church again started to meddle in political life in America.
The future of this country will not be bright if church people gradually are allowed to rule again.
History speaks volumes about mixing religion and ploitics.
A country as diverse as hours ,must not let this happen.
Currently our main problem is a minority of white men, they occupy the Executive branch.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:17 amThank you Idaho for another potato head in Congress. Keep praying for the Rapture. Look over there! There it is! My bad it was Pastor Hagee.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:18 amWho among us doesn’t want to see the GOP destroyed and outlawed?
Outlawed? So much for free speech in America, compliments of ronjazz(D).
Even the nazis and the communists have a say here, even if their constituencies are miniscule.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:19 amPro-Muslim domination in the U.S., endorsed by the left.
While you lefties claim to rail against Nazis, you sure are good at employing many of their tactics to scapegoat a current generation.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:20 amWhy did Ben Franklin hate America so?
Hey everybody, the Freedom Fries are on me!
August 10th, 2007 at 10:20 amOh my, it's a republican saying this. I simply can't believe it!
August 10th, 2007 at 10:21 amHe, but for the luck of the draw, is the "Devil's Advocate". Satan will have him standing on his head in the shitroom.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:21 amPro-Muslim domination in the U.S., endorsed by the left.
While you lefties claim to rail against Nazis, you sure are good at employing many of their tactics to scapegoat a current generation.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Not true. This is a dishonest, irrational comment.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:21 amComment by CT_Version 2
No scapegoating needed. You brought it on yourselves... you murdered Iraqis just because they are muslims and your bigoted views show your ugly sould everyday. I grew up on the evangelical church ... they think they are mini-israelis first and Americans second... dont trust them... they may not want to kill you... but they will look the other way while the more violent among them do...
August 10th, 2007 at 10:22 amGreat post's all...Blessings
August 10th, 2007 at 10:22 amPro-Muslim domination in the U.S., endorsed by the left.
What the hell are you talking about, pant-load? What pro-Muslim domination? What are you so afraid of that you have to scapegoat all Muslims and/or all liberals?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:23 amLeave it to the left to mingle with what their minority ass*s don't like. But if others don't like what they bring to the table, they can "take it or leave it," or "leave the country."
Typical lefty: "Hey, we're in the Minority! Since we're self-hating baiters, we should tinker with the demographics to create our own communist utopia!!"
August 10th, 2007 at 10:24 amAny idiot with a public school education knows that a key priniciple this country was founded on, and that was a prominent focus of the founding fathers, was FREEDOM FROM RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.
Still smarting from the penal mother church of englands harsh and punative dogma, the founding fathers were careful to include laws prohibiting a state religion.
Now, 200 years later, and after generations of inbreeding, the right wing has produced this festering carbunkle on the ass of democracy, who like so many of his brethern, think THEIR religion, is the STATE religion.
The RNC is as far from the framers as they can be.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:24 amHow can the left possibly be in favor of a religion that supresses women's rights? I say that's a little more pentacostal and evangelical parallel endorsed by the right, sans the burka.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:25 amHe's a Pharisee. His is a vision of a divided, broken America. Wow what a loon.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:27 amComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 10:22 am
The use of the word "you" makes your argument fall apart in its first sentence.
May want to try again. Clearly, you lefties are scapegoating. There's plenty of dirt on you idiots waiting to be uncovered, I'm sure of it.
For the record, Iraqis are mostly killing innocent Iraqis. Those roadside bombs haven't been in short supply, huh lefty? Get your story straight. Stop blaming U.S. forces.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:28 amOnly after the power of church in Europe was reduced,Europe was able to flourish in all fields of science,art and general knowledge.
Uhh, not quite. The Ren was more a shift away from medieval religious practice but it certainly didnt abandon religion nor seek its diminuation.
Many of the Ren's greatest works of art were dedicated to Christianity; the papacy and the church patronized many of them. One only needs to take a look at the spectacular ceiling of the Sistine Chapel to understand.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:28 amThese types are always the first to scream that the "secular left" is trying to force religion out of the public sphere. Of course, what they want is religious uniformity, under their religion.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:29 amFrom the link:http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/01.html
[Footnote 5] During House debate, Madison told his fellow Members that ''he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.'' 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789). That his conception of ''establishment'' was quite broad is revealed in his veto as President in 1811 of a bill which in granting land reserved a parcel for a Baptist Church in Salem, Mississippi; the action, explained President Madison, ''comprises a principle and precedent for the appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment.''' 8 The Writings of James Madison (G. Hunt. ed.) 132-33 (1904). Madison's views were no doubt influenced by the fight in the Virginia legislature in 1784-1785 in which he successfully led the opposition to a tax to support teachers of religion in Virginia and in the course of which he drafted his ''Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments'' setting forth his thoughts. Id. at 183-91; I. Brant, James Madison--The Nationalist 1780-1787, 343-55 (1948). Acting on the momentum of this effort, Madison secured passage of Jefferson's ''Bill for Religious Liberty''. Id. at 354; D. Malone, Jefferson the Virginian 274-280 (1948). The theme of the writings of both was that it was wrong to offer public support of any religion in particular or of religion in general.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:29 amPity that Thinkprogress has driven some posters away by their lack of policing their site. If Zooey wasn’t being stalked, she might have been around to comment on this dirtbag.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 10, 2007 @ 10:07 am
?!?!?!??!?!!?!?
That's awful!!
WTF?
It's been a couple of days since i've been on last.what's going on?
Oh, and Bill Sali is a douchebag.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:30 amDrink up the kool aid. Breath in the stench of ignorance. Fear courses thru the veins of the small minded. The republic may already be lost.
I guess the quote "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" no longer pertains to this country.
This is the road the fear mongers are driving down. It's a dark, one way road that doesn't lead to prosperity or the promise land. It leads to the destruction of this country.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:30 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 10, 2007 @ 10:21 am
Yours was a baseless, hollow claim. A typical lefty-in-denial stance.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:30 amComment by the fly-man
I am not in favor of ANY religion. They all have bad points and good points, but none are logical or reasoned. The bible praises ethnic cleansing and mass murder but I dont hold that against them any MORE than I hold the views of muslims about women against them... it is THEIR religion and they have the "unalienable right" to believe that crazy crap if they so choose EQUALLY as much as do the christians in their crazy crap... ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL... real simple... would I suppress women? No... but that doesnt give me the right to force others to be just like me... some people just dont understand the American Way.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:30 amHow can the left possibly be in favor of a religion that supresses women’s rights? I say that’s a little more pentacostal and evangelical parallel endorsed by the right, sans the burka.
Comment by the Lie-man — August 10, 2007 @ 10:25 am
Ahh, another result of decades of inbreeding.
This moron, like so many of the nazi-like right wing, can't get his tiny, inbred brain, around the concept of religious diversity.
To him, tolerating opposing beliefs means endorsing them.
He is a prime example of why brothers and sisters shouldn't make babies.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:31 amIn any manner contrary to their conscience... how unequivocal is that?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:32 amI’m sure of it.
Comment by CT_Version 2
That your problem... you are not a reasoned thinker like the Founding Fathers.. you are SURE of things without proof... just like Iraq.
For the record, Iraqis are mostly killing innocent Iraqis. Those roadside bombs haven’t been in short supply, huh lefty? Get your story straight. Stop blaming U.S. forces.
Comment by CT_Version 2
Whos blaming the soldiers? They didnt buy plane tickets over there... you asses sent them there... it is YOUR fault ... it is YOU who murdered.. you simply used the loyalty of the soldiers to our Flag and Constitution to do it... they are the gun and you are the trigger puller that sent them there.. I blame YOU.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:33 amHe is a prime example of why brothers and sisters shouldn’t make babies.
As are you.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:34 amMany of the Ren’s greatest works of art were dedicated to Christianity; the papacy and the church patronized many of them. One only needs to take a look at the spectacular ceiling of the Sistine Chapel to understand.
Comment by StarHopper
You dont know much about history do you? Back then you had 2 choices... your art was christian.. or you die... pretty simple aye? You make non-christian art you die... you say that the world is not flat and spins around the sun and you die... see christianity was all about freedom... do what we say or die... you get choice...
August 10th, 2007 at 10:35 amStop blaming U.S. forces.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Another moron who can't tell the difference between condeming him and the rubes in power, from condeming US forces.
Or who doesn't WANT to tell the difference.
Either way, he's just another turd in the tank. Wipe your bum of the residue, then flush him, with the rest of the floaters.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:35 amCT...are you the POTUS? I had no idea! Congrats!
Ignore Gerald, he hates himself and the troops.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:36 amFor the record, Iraqis are mostly killing innocent Iraqis. Those roadside bombs haven’t been in short supply, huh lefty? Get your story straight. Stop blaming U.S. forces.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:28 am
For the record, none of that was happening until the Bush illegal, hateful, stupid invasion and occupation of a country that was no threat to us. You are one stupid troll.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:36 amFirst entry -- "Anyone one up for a mustache ride?"
August 10th, 2007 at 10:36 amCaption:
"I just ate a wolf burger with fries."
August 10th, 2007 at 10:37 ama religion that surpresses women's rights? what do you have against christianity, fly-man?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:38 amYou dont know much about history do you? Back then you had 2 choices… your art was christian.. or you die… pretty simple aye? You make non-christian art you die… you say that the world is not flat and spins around the sun and you die… see christianity was all about freedom… do what we say or die… you get choice…
Hehehehehe...which would then prove my point about the Rennaissance NOT being completely secular in nature, as the poster Tarazan tried to imply.
Youre not very good at this are you?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:40 amFor 200 years inbred nazi-like scum like these have been trying to overturn the democracy of America, and institute theocratic martial law.
For 200 years inbred nazi-like scum like these, have sought to invade foriegn nations, remove rights and liberties established in our constitution, and turn America into an inbred totalitarian hell, making all Americans, as miserable as themselves.
Fortunately, only a small percentage of the country endorses sibling copulation, and they still represent a small, albeit vocal minority in our country. How one got elected, is beyond me, but one things for sure. It'll be a cold day in hell before it happens again.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:40 amComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Dear Lefty,
You tend to be a little slow.
You are a demographic-obsessed crazed lefty who cares a little too much about the welfare of terrorist nations over this nation's domestic priorities.
You are claiming that our ethical and brave military forces kill innocent Iraqis. I'm not the one with the gun in my hand, nor am I the one in the aviator's seat, so you couldn't be referring to me. Your accusations are therefore fundamentally baseless and are disrespectful towards our forces. Don't slander the troops.
Second notice: Drop the use of the word "you". And don't insult the forces, either.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:40 amCaption Contest:
"I'll paint any car for $99.95!"
:D
August 10th, 2007 at 10:41 amHehehehehe…which would then prove my point about the Rennaissance NOT being completely secular in nature, as the poster Tarazan tried to imply.
Youre not very good at this are you?
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Your conflation of art and politics shows that you are not very good at this. Typical of you to move the goalposts, though, and entirely predictable.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:42 amWhat the hell are you talking about, pant-load? What pro-Muslim domination? What are you so afraid of that you have to scapegoat all Muslims and/or all liberals?
Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 10:23 am
He's a bigot. Sure, it's harder to recognize him without the white robe and the burning cross, but he's just an old-school bigot finding a new minority to pick on. They got tired of bashing blacks and gays, so they moved on to Muslims. After they're done with Muslims, they'll move on to Hindus.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:42 amWho among us is surprised that a Republican would be an ignorant, hateful, antiAmerican bigot? Who among us doesn’t want to see the GOP destroyed and outlawed? this guy is just the tip of the iceberg, and should be targeted for total defeat and humiliation. He should run for president of North Korea, although they might find him a bit extreme.
Comment by ronjazz — August 10, 2007 @ 10:12 am
I'm not surprised that a Republican would be an ignorant, hateful, anti-American bigot. We seem to have our share of those, and sadly many of them are Republicans.
But please don't count me among those who would want to see the Republican Party destroyed. Having only two major parties is bad enough -- a one-party system in this country would be a step closer to fascism, no matter which party it is.
I would like to see the Republican Party go back to the fiscal conservative values it once had. I would like to see it return to cherishing personal freedoms. I would like to see it step away from evangelicals who want to tell Americans what they can do in their bedrooms. And I would like to see it step away from "borrow and spend" economics.
If the GOP can return to the party of Barry Goldwater, it could be a balanced Yin to the Democratic Yang. Each party could check the other, allowing the best ideas of both to flourish.
(time for my reality medication now)
August 10th, 2007 at 10:43 amTypical lefty: “Hey, we’re in the Minority! Since we’re self-hating baiters, we should tinker with the demographics to create our own communist utopia!!â€
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Typical Republican: "Hey, we can only hold exploit people if everyone hates each other, we should tinker with the constitution to create our own Balkan Hell!!!"
August 10th, 2007 at 10:43 amFor the record, none of that was happening until the Bush illegal, hateful, stupid invasion and occupation of a country that was no threat to us. You are one stupid troll.
Guess we could say the same for Afghanistan, a war the left loves to parade as proof of their willingness to use military force.
Of course we need to remember that the libs just love the Iraqis today, a few years back....not so much. Dead Iraqis werent useful as a political tool when Saddam was busy digging his mass graves.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:44 amThis guy is way off the mark.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:47 amCT_Version_2 needs remedial reading courses. Our "ethical and moral" troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam, and have murdered wedding parties in Iraq. You and your treasonous GOP have sent those troops into a hell on earth, and the troops' AND the insurgents' murderous behavior falls on you falls on YOU. None of this was happening before YOU, in your ignorance, let Bushco lie YOU into losing three wars.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:47 amDead Iraqis werent useful as a political tool when Saddam was busy digging his mass graves.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Nor was it a concern of Reagan administration, since they were too busy giving Saddam money to kill them, and the Iranians.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:47 amWhat ever happened to separation of church and state?
That was put there by the founding fathers and is being ignored by the religious right today.
My religion is my business, just as yours is yours.
It's sick how these dirtbags are taking over the country and aren't slammed for making these kinds of comments. That proves the state our country is in. And it's not a good state to be in, either, IMHO.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:47 amAll elected government officials should have to take a test on the constitution.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:48 amAmerican Wahabbism.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:49 amWhatever religion Sali belongs to is the wrong one and he's going to burn in Hell for it.
And Daryll along with him.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:51 amMy religion is my business, just as yours is yours.
Comment by MsJ — August 10, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Which any school kid knows was a founding prinicple of our constitution.
Its a simple concept, and anyone, and I do mean ANYONE with a normal brain gets it.
But then theres the neocon.
Inbred. Illiterate. Lovers of blood, murder and all manner of abomination performed in the name of their god.
To them, that phrase is as foriegn and obscure as their own paternity.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:51 amYou are a demographic-obsessed crazed lefty who cares a little too much about the welfare of terrorist nations over this nation’s domestic priorities.
Second notice: Drop the use of the word “youâ€. And don’t insult the forces, either.
Comment by CT_Boredom 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Ask your doctor is Lexapro is right for you! Lexapro is a selective serotonin uptake inhibitor taken for depression.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:51 amCommon side effects include dry mouth, weight gain, decrease libido, and rarely, thoughts of suicide.
Contact your physician immediately if you or someone you know currently taking Lexapro has thoughts about suicide or dying.
Lexapro may take up to 6 weeks to work. Do not stop taking Lexapro without first consulting with your doctor
Of course we need to remember that the libs just love the Iraqis today, a few years back….not so much. Dead Iraqis werent useful as a political tool when Saddam was busy digging his mass graves.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 10:44 am
More goalpost moving from the ignorant wingnuts. Republicans armed and funded Saddam, and looked away when he predictably went haywire. And the Republicans have lied on a daily basis about freeing Iraqis while they bomb and shoot them. "Shock And Awe" is one of the most embarrassing and revealing phrases ever invented by a sick, perverted, power-mad group of fascists, and they will live in infamy for it. Those who support them have abandoned American principles and ideals, and are ignorant hypocrites at best, and seditious traitors at worst. Take your pick, those are the options for chickenhawk enablers of mass murder.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:51 amThe marriage of the republican party to the evangelicals of America had nothing to do with Christianity or morals. They knowingly used each other, mostly for greed and power. The leaders of the fake churches like PTL have dozens of houses and millions of dollars and dine on $200.00 meals while others die of hunger.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:52 amNor was it a concern of Reagan administration, since they were too busy giving Saddam money to kill them, and the Iranians.
Comment by Krazny — August 10, 2007 @ 10:47 am
They were pretty useful when George Abu George called on the Shi'ites to rise up and overthrow Saddam when our troops were retreating from Iraq in 1991.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:52 amAmerican Wahabbism.
Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007 @ 10:49 am
Yup. It's the heart and soul of the Republican al-Qa'ida.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:53 am#29 fly-man
[ how can the left possibly be in favor of a religion that supresses women's rights?]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you are uninformed and lacks the necessary knoweldge,with Hollywood molded brains and mentality.
Pakistan, a Moslem country (220 millions)elected a woman as a prime minister and her party is the largest party in Pakistan Parliament.
Indonesia,the most populous Moslem country also (250 MILLIONS) also elected a woman as president. In fact she visited the White House 2 years ago.
Bangladesh a large Moslem populated country also elected a woman to be their prime minister...
Moslems women participate in all aspects of life in Moslem countries,from teaching to nursing,to politics....and business.
Did you ever travel outside USA?
You just rely on Fox network,Coulter,Hannity and Rush Limbaugh...To feed you with garbage news and in the process you surredered your brains.
Yes, there is Burka...but only in Afghanstan and some backward poor societies,but that's not the majority..these people do not even represent 5% of total Moslem population.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:54 amGo and read before you make such statements..
"Pro-Muslim domination in the U.S., endorsed by the left.
While you lefties claim to rail against Nazis, you sure are good at employing many of their tactics to scapegoat a current generation.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:20 am"
Right on the money. Liberals preach diversity, but the diversity is only acceptable if it is in total agreement with them.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:55 amGuess we could say the same for Afghanistan, a war the left loves to parade as proof of their willingness to use military force.
Comment by Petty Petty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 10:44 am
No. World War II covered that bridge hayseed.
We don't need to "prove" our willingness to use force to goosestepping bootlickers like you and your scum. Using force is easy. Its the first refuge of the fool and the criminal, which explains why writhing demonic worms like yourself, are always tauting it. You worship pain, blood and death, and serve your father the devil, as he carefully leads you, and those dumb enough to follow you, down to hell.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:56 amTo them, that phrase is as foriegn and obscure as their own paternity.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
ROTFL!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 10:56 amRep. Sali is a true holy man and based on his votes in the house has proven that he is a huge political asset to the state of Ohio and our country. George Washington and other did not want hindu, muslim, or any other prayers practiced within the House and Senate except for prayers to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Libs, emulate Rep. Sali
August 10th, 2007 at 10:57 amPoor Zooey, this clown is her representative.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:57 amNo representation without understanding the Constitution!
Rep. Sali is a true holy man and based on his votes in the house has proven that he is a huge political asset to the state of Ohio
Uhhhh, Idaho, dumbshit.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:57 amMost of the North African countries are Muslim, and have a relaxed view of women's rights. Egypt is constantly fighting the extremists who wish to impose the fundamentalist views. similar to the middle of the road US citizens who don't wish to see an evangelical Christian theology in the US.
August 10th, 2007 at 10:58 amArgue with CT and get a headache. CT has a pogo stick for debate tactics and doesn't stick to any one subject longer than the avg. ADD sufferer.
The subject content is religion and the fear of different religions being projected from Mr. Sali.
Care to comment on this subject CT?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:58 amUhhhh, Idaho, dumbshit.
Comment by RUCerious — August 10, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Don't he is on a roll
August 10th, 2007 at 10:59 amGeorge Washington and other ...?
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
So, Daryll darling, would the other include Jefferson, or not???
August 10th, 2007 at 10:59 amComment by ronjazz — August 10, 2007 @ 10:47 am
That's nice, a lefty in need of propaganda-reduction surgery.
CT_Version_2 needs remedial reading courses. Our “ethical and moral†troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam, and have murdered wedding parties in Iraq. You and your treasonous GOP have sent those troops into a hell on earth, and the troops’ AND the insurgents’ murderous behavior falls on you falls on YOU. None of this was happening before YOU, in your ignorance, let Bushco lie YOU into losing three wars.
Another "argument" that falls apart in its first sentence. Really, this idiot's irrational comments is like the grease tray after grilling up six hamburgers.
Can you justify "YOU"? Links?
Are you quoting the Hippie Propaganda Regiment from Vietnam? What relation does Vietnam bear, precisely?
Do you know what treason stands for? Can you justify the lefty overuse of that word?
Would "Bushco" belong in a term paper?
Thanks for your troop bashing. Hey, I can only quote you.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amHow are women doing in the islamic heartland, tarazan?
You would think that all those forward-thinking muslims might want the land of Mecca to be a little more lenient towards their females, guess not.
I wonder if Gwen Stefani will get arrested in Malaysia if she dares to show more than an ankle or a wrist during her concert?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amSince this idiot rep has sworn to uphold the constitution, someone needs to send him a copy. I hope someone on his staff can read.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amRight on the money. Liberals preach diversity, but the diversity is only acceptable if it is in total agreement with them.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 10:55 am
Wrong, moron. It's only acceptable if it's DIVERSE. Unlike you bigots, we don't define diversity of religion as "all the flavors of Protestant Christianity."
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amSorry Kraz, came in late, just astounded by the hypocrite's lack of fundamental reading and comprehension skills.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amtest
August 10th, 2007 at 11:00 amLooks like Sali's been hanging out with Rep. Goode from VA. Both of them are as ignorant as the day is long.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:01 amThank you Idaho for another potato head in Congress. Keep praying for the Rapture. Look over there! There it is! My bad it was Pastor Hagee.
Comment by michael — August 10, 2007 @ 10:18 am
Be careful about making negative comments about Pastor Hagee. He is a man of God.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:01 amMr. Bigfoot. you couldn't be more wrong. This thread is about the ignorance of Mr. Sali and his religious intolerance. The "left" is pointing it out.
You woke up on the wrong side of the argument again.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:01 amWORD PRESS SUCKS
August 10th, 2007 at 11:02 amYou are claiming that our ethical and brave military forces kill innocent Iraqis.
But they are and have been: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml
And in Afghanistan too: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2331981.ece
So much so, the other coalition forces threw the US out of the area recently; http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/08/news/casualties.php
All the gear and no idea.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:03 amRight on the money. Liberals preach diversity, but the diversity is only acceptable if it is in total agreement with them.
Comment by O. Bigfootfetish — August 10, 2007 @ 10:55 am
Restless sleep?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:03 amTry Lunesta, to help you fall asleep, and stay asleep. You'll wake up refreshed.
Common side effects are headache, and dry mouth.
Rep. Sali is a true holy man and based on his votes in the house has proven that he is a huge political asset to the state of Ohio and our country. George Washington and other did not want hindu, muslim, or any other prayers practiced within the House and Senate except for prayers to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Comment by Carroll — August 10, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Sali is a pussfilled sack of filth who's mouth releases an endless flow of festering fecal matter that you, and the pathetic bootlicking goosestepping worms like you, gobble up as fast as he can puke it up.
Lick it up worm.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:03 amComment by DRxJ — August 10, 2007 @ 11:03 am
Not any kind of effective response, sir.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:04 amRUC, these clowns quote the bible when it suits them, they quote the founding fathers when it suits them, they quote the constitution when it suits them (usually out of context and incompletely).
It's a great way to make your case with absolute bull$#it. Oh, but what a sound bite!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:04 amGeorge Washington and other did not want hindu, muslim, or any other prayers practiced within the House and Senate except for prayers to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Libs, emulate Rep. Sali
Comment by ParoDaryll — August 10, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Link please.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:04 am...and whose this "other" you speak of???
CAPTION CONTEST
"Are YOU paying too much for car insurance?"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:04 amOne more time.
Caption Contest: "I'll paint any car for $99.95!"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:04 amComment by CT_Version 2
YOU murdered our soldiers by sending them to fight and die not for defense of America but for the Iraqi PNAC plan from the 1990s.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:05 amComment by CT_Version 2
YOU murdered the Iraqis by sending our military into their country and busting up the society they had. Maybe it was not a society as good as America but that wasnt any of our business.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:05 amSt Darryl - you mean this Pastor Hagee?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/aipac-cheers-an-antisemi_b_43377.html
If blaming the Jews for their own holocaust makes you a man of God, well that's just dandy, eh?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:05 amCAPTION CONTEST
“Are YOU paying too much for car insurance?â€
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 10, 2007 @ 11:04 am
One more time.
Caption Contest: “I’ll paint any car for $99.95!â€
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 10, 2007 @ 11:04 am
what can I say..
August 10th, 2007 at 11:06 amThis guy looks like he would be involved in cars ONE way or another...
Comment by CT_Version 2
YOU voted in people that did this. YOU pulled the trigger personally and caused all these deaths. Soldiers are not the trigger pullers. They are not in the position to make those decisions in America the civilians are... that means YOU. YOU pulled the trigger and then soldiers are the executors of that action not the deciders... THE DECIDER ... who you elected... is to be blamed.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:06 amI agree with Sali. We should not allow Mormons in Congress, as the founding fathers obviously never envisioned that.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:06 am/snark
Rep. Sali is a true holy man and based on his votes in the house has proven that he is a huge political asset to the state of Ohio
Uhhhh, Idaho, dumbshit.
Comment by RUCerious — August 10, 2007 @ 10:57 am
I apologize. I was thinking of my friend, Rep. Kevin Bacon (R). He's another Representative who has proven his loyalty to his state and country.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:07 amurg....
day off from work....
mustn't..
hit...
bong...
must..
be...
PRODUCTIVE!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:07 amAh, looks like the troll has shifted personalities again, into the form of Daryll.
Men of God are still men, subjected to the moral failings of men. How quick does Daryll forget Reverend Haggard, the man who was caught with some gay prostitute and a bunch of meth. He is a "Man of God" too...a flawed man who exposed the hypocracy of Daryll's group. If people like him exist, I feel free to criticize any so-called 'Man of God'. Daryll focuses on the 'of God' part, and we realists focus on the 'Man' part.
Do as I say, not as I do. Sex with gay prostitutes is wrong unless I'm doing it, then it's a private matter. You're all going to hell, but I can do no wrong. And I should have a monopoly of the Religious discourse in American Society.
No thanks. Sali can go spend a quality afternoon with Haggard and Foley and check out tight butts of 17 year old boys for all I care. His opinion, much like Daryll's, ain't worth a pile of cat dung.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:07 amComment by CT_Version 2
YOU.
Be a man and take responsibility for YOUR actions. You dont see soldiers squirming away from it... they were given orders and they carried them out just as they swore on the Constitution to do...
YOU did this.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:07 amOur “ethical and moral†troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam, and have murdered wedding parties in Iraq.
Slanderous, hyperbole and you know it. Yes there were some "murders" committed by our troops in Vietnam and Iraq, also in every other country our troops have been with perhaps the exception of the smaller operations, but thats it. Emphasis on the word "some".
No nation can claim moral superiority on this point and trying to pin a broad-brush accusation of murder on the entire military is baseless.
The United States has the most powerful military ever to walk the earth, if we REALLY wanted to 'intentionally' murder civilians there arent enough backhoes in the world to dig the mass graves fast enough.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:08 amwell,maybe once..
:D
August 10th, 2007 at 11:08 amAnother “argument†that falls apart in its first sentence. Really, this idiot’s irrational comments is like the grease tray after grilling up six hamburgers.
Comment by CT_Virgin 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 11:00 am
Ever had that not so fresh feeling?
Try FDS (Feminine Deodorant Spray), so you can go about your day, fresh and confident.
FDS, available at fine drug stores and supermarkets near you.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:08 amI wonder what religion Sali is hiding behind? What fake-based ministry does he support, or supports him? Could he show up on a D.C. madam's call list?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:08 amCaption Contest: "we slow roast our chicken and hand shuck every ear of corn."
August 10th, 2007 at 11:09 amCaption Contest: "Do you have what it takes to join our Wal-Mart family?"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:10 amI agree with Sali. We should not allow Mormons in Congress, as the founding fathers obviously never envisioned that.
Or the senate. Harry Reid, clean out your office.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:10 amI had dinner with Jesus last night, and I tell you he is pretty pissed at the abuse of his name by the intolerant rednecks. He was especially pissed at Bush's blaming Iraq on Him. "I never told that dumb f*ck to invade Iraq! Bush is flat out lying to you people. I am going to rip his eyes out and skull f*ck that idiot."
I know what you are thinking, and it surprised me too, but Jesus hogged the second bottle of wine and was three sheets to the wind.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:11 amCaption Contest:"I'm getting a blow job right now, and I'm Loving it!"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:12 amComment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 11:00 am
Wrong. The obsession with lefties is that it's only diverse if whites/christians are in the minority. This is evident with the left's constant berating of christianity and openness to the dominance of muslim religions in the U.S., even after we suffered a brutal terrorist attack at the hands of them.
Tell me, why the sudden obsession with "religious diversity" and "Muslim immigration" after we were attacked? Timing is a little bad and makes you look weak, don't you think?
The left seems to be the Nazis of our time. They rail against the Nazis of the past, while being the current ones.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:12 amCaption Contest: "Im guaranteed to make liberals start frothing about 'The American Taliban'."
August 10th, 2007 at 11:12 am***snerk***
August 10th, 2007 at 11:13 amThe left seems to be the Nazis of our time. They rail against the Nazis of the past, while being the current ones.
Comment by CT_Vertigo 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Have you ever suffered from vaginal discomfort?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:14 am3 out 4 women who do recommend Vagisil for relief.
Try vagisil, today!
No nation can claim moral superiority on this point and trying to pin a broad-brush accusation of murder on the entire military is baseless.
The United States has the most powerful military ever to walk the earth, if we REALLY wanted to ‘intentionally’ murder civilians there arent enough backhoes in the world to dig the mass graves fast enough.
Comment by NameHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Notice the right wing wimps can't defeat any argument we actually make, so they are left with inventing words for us, and positions, and then debating themselves on the things THEY said, attributing them to us.
No one blames the military, and anyone other than this inbred (means your mom and dad were brother and sister) wimp knows its the President, and the PIGS who support him, that we blame.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:14 amThe left seems to be the Nazis of our time. They rail against the Nazis of the past, while being the current ones.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 11:12 am
The only people I see who seem to be enjoying bombing the $hit out of brown people are the people in the White House....
August 10th, 2007 at 11:15 amNanlichi is enjoying his new job as the inspiration for: "This is your brain on drugs".
August 10th, 2007 at 11:15 amNanlichi is enjoying his new job as the inspiration for: “This is your brain on drugsâ€.
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Nanlichi is an egg?
who knew...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:16 amCaption Contest; "Stay regular with Exlax"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:17 amwe REALLY wanted to ‘intentionally’ murder civilians there arent enough backhoes in the world to dig the mass graves fast enough.
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Actually there was an 'EternalMarine' a few days ago who showed up pon a thread who was up for it. He said that we should take the TV crews away and give them six weeks to 'win the war'. He said we wouldn't 'like how we did it'.
He is probably one of the 50% or so of GIs/Marines who raised their hands in this discussion a regular Army LTC had on Alterman a while ago: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12915283/
That's a lot of US soldiers (if this example is representative) who think shooting prisoners is OK to get information from the others.
The moral compass of your young men and women is not as straight as you think - put young people in stress like that, and eventually they become desensitized and join in. Its inevitable. And couple that with rules of engagement like the SAS man talks about and well, no wonder the Iraqis think that attacks on the US soldiers are justified.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:17 amI had dinner with Jesus last night, and I tell you he is pretty pissed at the abuse of his name by the intolerant rednecks. He was especially pissed at Bush’s blaming Iraq on Him. “I never told that dumb f*ck to invade Iraq! Bush is flat out lying to you people. I am going to rip his eyes out and skull f*ck that idiot.â€
I know what you are thinking, and it surprised me too, but Jesus hogged the second bottle of wine and was three sheets to the wind.
Comment by nanlichi — August 10, 2007 @ 11:11 am
BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:18 amSorry, SAS man discusses US rule-of-engagement here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ news/ main.jhtml?xml=/ news/ 2006/ 03/ 12/ nsas12.xml
August 10th, 2007 at 11:19 am“Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. â€
-Ben Franklin
http://www.pioneernet.net/ rbrannan/ whitefield/ bfongw.htm
August 10th, 2007 at 11:19 amThat's it TP. My last post has gone into the ether. I'll not post or visit here again. C&L, HP, and FDL are far more reliable. Good luck to my fellow liberal posters. Keep the faith.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:19 am"No nation can claim moral superiority on this point and trying to pin a broad-brush accusation of murder on the entire military is baseless.
The United States has the most powerful military ever to walk the earth, if we REALLY wanted to ‘intentionally’ murder civilians there arent enough backhoes in the world to dig the mass graves fast enough."
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:08 am
"No nation can claim moral superiority on this point..." Baloney. That's what you get when you start a war of choice, with no real moral imperative. We don't need to actively commit genocide - a few instances of killed innocents referred to as "collateral damage" is all it takes to cement the image of US soldiers as remorseless murderers. That's why wars of choice do so much damage to our soldiers' credibility, and to their ability to win "hearts and minds."
August 10th, 2007 at 11:20 amCaption Contest:
Meet Bill. Bill is enjoying the extra lift he gets from male enhancement supplements.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:20 amApparently, the boys at QC should have kept the version 2 firmware for CompuTROLLer for more testing and revision, because it's as flawed as Version 1. Kind of like the Apple iPhone's flawed firmware, they should have kept it in R&D, yaknow?
I've not heard a single thing saying that Leftists want Christianity in the minority, nor have I heard a single thing that Leftists want Muslim as the national religion of the USA. In fact, I was under the impression that Leftists wanted there to be freedom of religion, as well as freedom FROM religion...you know, to be able to worship as I please, to whom I please, and if I so please, to nobody at all? If I want to worship God through his son Jesus, I should be allowed to. If I want to worship Allah through his prophet Mohammed, I should be allowed to. If I want to worship Yahweh (I guess that's how that's spelled) through his prophet Moses and the others spoken of in the Torah, I should be allowed to. If I believe that I am a fragment of a sentient Universe, imbued with an aspect of the divine, I should be allowed to. If I wish to believe that I am part of the Living Planet, born of the Lifestream, living, then when I die, my soul returning to the Lifestream, then let me walk around with my soft glowing green eyes, hearing the Voice of the Planet, and doing my best to protect that Planet. The only requirement? That you be allowed to believe as you wish, and neither of our beliefs take away rights belonging to others. Freedom of religion, b!tch.
But with his flawed firmware, CT_V2 still can't understand this. It sucks when the people who are doing your development are Indians payed $2 bucks an hour...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:20 amIf this is such a problem with Hindu prayers and Muslim prayers and Wika Eartmother Goddess prayers, maybe the Senate should just eliminate this ritual entirely.
We sent these guys to Washington to do the business of the people, not the business of Jesus, Ganesh, Allah, Satan, Zeus and company.
As long as the First Amendment protects the free exercise of religion, the job of congress concerning religion is done.
Multicultural prayers before Senate Sessions sounds about as spiritual as throwing the first pitch at a ball game.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:21 amMARCUS!!!
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo.........
*poof*
August 10th, 2007 at 11:22 amBLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!
Comment by Daryll
Exactly what used to be screamed by the christians whenever someone made non christian art or science or politics or anything else...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:22 amwe REALLY wanted to ‘intentionally’ murder civilians there arent enough backhoes in the world to dig the mass graves fast enough.
Comment by TurdHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:08 am
And there isn't enough backhoes in the world to dig a hole big enough for us to crawl in and hide in once we're done.
While I realize you've never strayed too far from the trailer park, theres whole other nations out there, with massive firepower and million man armies. Firepower that combined, dwarfs ours in comparison.
I said this last night, and I'll say it again. The funny thing about being a bully, is when the rest of the kids have had enough of a bully, they all gang up, and whoop the bejesus out of him.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:23 amNo one blames the military, and anyone other than this inbred (means your mom and dad were brother and sister) wimp knows its the President, and the PIGS who support him, that we blame.
You have a curious fascination with inbreeding as it appears on every post you add.
Gerald is blaming the military, he seems to think they are automatons who know nothing other than murder. He also seems to ignore the humanitarian work our troops do every day in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Gerald's words: Our “ethical and moral†troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam, and have murdered wedding parties in Iraq.
Not "some" troops, not a "few" troops, OUR troops, as if all our soldiers were hitting the streets just looking for someone to shoot. You will notice also he highlighted "ethical and moral", as if they lack such personal qualities whatsoever.
Sending troops to war doesnt transform them into murderers and rapists, if it did the europeans would still be burying their dead from WWII.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:23 amWe don’t need to actively commit genocide - a few instances of killed innocents referred to as “collateral damage†is all it takes to cement the image of US soldiers as remorseless murderers.
That's exactly it. All it takes is the perception that US soldiers are casual with Iraqi lives. There's this older discussion on ICH that covers some of it, but there was a more recent general discussion on the breakdown in discipline of an occupying force. Can't find it yet.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8479.htm
August 10th, 2007 at 11:24 am"di·ver·si·ty (dÄ-vûr'sÄ-tÄ“, dÄ«-) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. di·ver·si·ties
The fact or quality of being diverse; difference.
A point or respect in which things differ.
Variety or multiformity: "Charles Darwin saw in the diversity of species the principles of evolution that operated to generate the species: variation, competition and selection" (Scientific American)."
-American Hertage Dictionary"
Hmm, you folks own a dictionary? I see no reference to adherence to any particular political ideology in there.
Indeed, I see no reference to ideology at all.
It would appear that the radical liberals who inhabit sites such as these are among the most intolerant oponents of diversity there are.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:24 amComment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Good Point.
That being said and to stay on topic and thus avoid being "trollish".
Prayer should not be said officialy in congress at all and sali is nuts.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:25 amCaption Contest: "I'm not only president of the hairclub, I'm a customer"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:25 amComment by nanlichi — August 10, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Dude, that wasn't me - it was probably that imposter CNN is talking about this morning.
I was at a strip club in Atlanta last night - ask Candy at the Cheetah Club she'll confirm it.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:26 amRUCerious
was trying import a little humor, just watched Animal House and was thinking of the scene where Belushi talks of the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor. Anyway Daryll is too fun, I like to let him rant about his cult, and his belief that an omnipotent creator being really gives a sh!t about who is in the white house.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:26 amGerald’s words: Our “ethical and moral†troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam, and have murdered wedding parties in Iraq.
Comment by StarHopper
This is why you people have NO CREDIBILITY...
You cant get ANYTHING right...
Did I say the above statement? Scroll Up... no I didnt.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:27 amBLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!
Comment by ParoDaryll — August 10, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Oh the irony!
...and on top of that, he cut and pasted the exact wording to which he felt was blasphemous.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:28 amNow that is funny!
TP, you REALLY need to either thread the comments or start deleting the troll posts and start banning their IPs. I don't mean kicking your critics or dissenters, but just the idiots.
This goes for Left and right. Do we really need to know that "George Bush is a f*ing fascist?" Come on. You've got a great forum and audience for discussion, but most are silent because of the mob....
August 10th, 2007 at 11:28 amIt would appear that the radical liberals who inhabit sites such as these are among the most intolerant oponents of diversity there are.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Project much, Bogfoot? Got your clock cleaned two days ago, back for more?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:29 amWhile I realize you’ve never strayed too far from the trailer park, theres whole other nations out there, with massive firepower and million man armies. Firepower that combined, dwarfs ours in comparison.
So? And? You used the word "combined" which leads me to believe you understand that the U.S. has the most powerful military ever.
That being said, your point is irrelevant to the statement, which is if we proscribed a military operation whole sole intent was the murder of civilians the pile of corpses would reach the stratosphere. Obviously it hasnt, therefore a person with any sense would realize that the murder of civilians by our troops is an anomoly.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:29 am#83 CT_Version_2
Re: "CT_Version_2 needs remedial reading courses. Our 'ethical and moral' troops murdered whole villages of women and children in Viet Nam"
Links? Are you quoting the Hippie Propaganda Regiment from Vietnam?
I live for stuff like this. Here you go. Read the whole story and find out what a real hero is:
My Lai Pilot Hugh Thompson
Early in the morning of March 16, 1968, Thompson, door-gunner Lawrence Colburn and crew chief Glenn Andreotta came upon U.S. ground troops killing Vietnamese civilians in and around the village of My Lai.
They landed the helicopter in the line of fire between American troops and fleeing Vietnamese civilians and pointed their own guns at the U.S. soldiers to prevent more killings.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:29 am"The only people I see who seem to be enjoying bombing the $hit out of brown people are the people in the White House….
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 10, 2007 @ 11:15 am"
And their fellow "brown people". I don't know if you catch any news, but most of the violence in Iraq is Iraqis killing Iraqis....or Iranians killing Iraqis.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:29 amCAPTION CONTEST: "Who wants a foot rub?"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:30 amIt would appear that the radical liberals who inhabit sites such as these are among the most intolerant oponents of diversity there are.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Person A: "All religions are equal"
Retard NeoCon: "So you are saying you love Islam and hate Christianity?"
Person A: "No I said all religions are equal"
Retard NeoCon: "So you are saying you love Islam and hate Christianity?"
Person A: "Didnt we just cover this? Are you crazy or something?"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:30 amAh, CT_V2's imaginary friend, aka his other personality O.Bigfoot, shows up and defends his position. Aren't trolls so cute.
While quoting the line 'A point or respect in which things differ', I point at the three real religions and the two fictional religions above. Diversity is having at least one of each religion possible (I'll grant you that the Mimbari religion and the Cetra religion don't really need to have members in congress who believe them, but it would be cool!). Respect for diversity is encouraging people to believe as they wish, wether it be real, fake, or not existent period, as long as those people do not harm others with their beliefs. A Muslim should be allowed to be Muslim. A Muslim who kills in the name of his religion can be handled the same way that a regular murder who kills for money is handled -- as a criminal. But you right wing hacks don't see it that way. That's why you've already lost the Left and are losing the Center too...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:30 amIt would appear that the radical liberals who inhabit sites such as these are among the most intolerant oponents of diversity there are.
Comment by O. Bigfooted — August 10, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Trichimonis is usually best treated by metronidazole 500mg twice daily for 7 days.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:30 amTake with food and avoid all alcohol, up to 3 days after treatment.
Next time you have that painful discharge, contact your physician immediately, and ask if Metronidazole 500mg is right for you!
Common sense in Congress WAS envisioned by the FF, so I guess Sali, according to them, you should resign.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:31 amGerald Gibson is a supporter of Islam.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:31 amIt's funny how the Left hates Christians but supports Muslims.
Strange.
Gerald why don't you just convert?
So Mr. Bigfoot, why should we have our soldiers (of all colors, religions and creeds) police these people who are killing each other?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:31 amI agree with this guy. What of this “diversity†– a Muslim congressman and Hindu prayer in congress – is going to keep the “united†in United States?
That the constitution is a “secular document†is a description with which I agree. That the constitution is a document devoid of the influence of Christianity is a statement with which I disagree.
The constitution, and its first amendment, was written at a time when the predominant religious view was, and was assumed to always be, Christianity.
The writings of the founders and of those close to the founding indicate that the first amendment’s purpose was to prevent any “Christian sect†from dominating the government. This is what Jefferson is making clear in his letter to the Danbury Baptists when he use the phrase: “…wall of separation.â€
Jefferson’s phrase in this letter is not a suggestion that any religion is as good or desirable as any other religion, neither is the first amendment a suggestion that any religion is as good as any other religion. (For those of “non-belief†I believe the Supreme Court has declared atheism – the belief that there is no God – a religion.)
As best as I can tell the modern view of this amendment is nothing like the original view of this amendment.
The constitution also notes that Sundays – the Christian day of worship – is not to be considered a business day.
Further, the document uses the date as “…the year of our Lord.†I have to assume that A..D. was available to them.
I believe the following questions should always be asked when considering the influences that brought about the USA.
Would there be a United States without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
Without the influence of this belief, what is going to keep the united in United States of America?
Will there continue to be a USA without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
I don’t believe the founders were trying to create a Christian nation. I believe they were creating a government for a Christian people.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:32 amThe only people I see who seem to be enjoying bombing the $hit out of brown people are the people in the White House….
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 10, 2007 @ 11:15 amâ€
And their fellow “brown peopleâ€. I don’t know if you catch any news, but most of the violence in Iraq is Iraqis killing Iraqis….or Iranians killing Iraqis.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:29 am
Um, a helluva lot more news than you get in the forest, I'm sure.
Everyone KNOWS that Iraqis are killing Iraqis-because they HATE each other. I guess Barney still has the President's back..
August 10th, 2007 at 11:33 amGerald Gibson is a supporter of Islam.
It’s funny how the Left hates Christians but supports Muslims.
Strange.
Gerald why don’t you just convert?
Comment by Sam — August 10, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Don't know about the "Left", but I hate religion. All of them!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:33 am"Each generation responds to war as innocents. Each generation discovers its own disillusionment -- often after a terrible price. The myth of war and the drug of war wait to be tasted.... Those who can tell us the truth are silenced or prefer to forget. The state needs the myth, as much as it needs its soldiers and its machines of war to survive." Chris Hedges
August 10th, 2007 at 11:33 amIt’s funny how the Left hates Christians but supports Muslims.
Strange.
Comment by Sam I am — August 10, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Vitamin B complex may help increase your libido. Also, try a product containing Ginseng and Ginko Bilboa. And a handful of oysters never hurts, either!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:34 amGerald Gibson is a supporter of Islam.
It’s funny how the Left hates Christians but supports Muslims.
Strange.
Gerald why don’t you just convert?
Comment by Sam
Sam == RetardNeoCon?
Person A: “All religions are equalâ€
Retard NeoCon: “So you are saying you love Islam and hate Christianity?â€
Person A: “No I said all religions are equalâ€
Retard NeoCon: “So you are saying you love Islam and hate Christianity?â€
Person A: “Didnt we just cover this? Are you crazy or something?â€
August 10th, 2007 at 11:34 am"Project much, Bogfoot? Got your clock cleaned two days ago, back for more?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 10, 2007 @ 11:29 am"
Clock cleaned? Laughable. Mind to point out where? I must not have been paying attention...or perhaps you weren't paying attention...I was posting yesterday and last night as well..
Oh, and just in case you didn't know: Name calling and foul language doesn't count as actual debate..or even as real thought.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:34 amLividLib,
August 10th, 2007 at 11:35 amI respect Leftists like you that hate all religions ala Hitchens.
However clowns like Gerald and Terry openly hate Christians and support Muslims.
Gerals even support Terror groups.
Those type of Leftists I don't respect.
Comment by bitblt
What you believe means nothing.
The writings of the founding fathers make it clear that they had muslims and jews and christians and indians among them.. they talked about the inclusion of these people... did you not see the references to Ben Franklins writings above?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:36 amSali is an idiot who knows shit about our founding fathers.
Here's a quote for those who think like Sali:
If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists.... [George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover]
August 10th, 2007 at 11:37 amGerald Gibson,
Jerry=Islamists supporter/anti-Christian.
You're a fool I'm not even one those imaginary neo cons you have wet dreams about.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:37 amYou're an outright traitor.
You always attack Christians and defend Muslims.
Why don't you convert and move to your beloved Iran?
don't forget the ATHEISTS who were there too,Gerald!
August 10th, 2007 at 11:37 am:)
I agree Daryll, Jesus hogging the wine was blaspehemous. But what the hell, He brought over a couple of virgins, the least I could do was pop for wine and steaks.
BTW, he said that you religious freaks shouldn't get all wrapped around the axle when defending your religion. He said he was surprised that His church is being represented by the most uptight, sexually frustrated and narrow minded bigots in America. Back off and enjoy life, he said. Just treat your neighbors like you would like to be treated and don't sweat the small stuff.
He got a big laugh out of flipping steaks with a crucifix. "Silly me, I never thought that crown of thorns was a good idea, but it does help grab the steaks."
August 10th, 2007 at 11:38 amGerals even support Terror groups.
Those type of Leftists I don’t respect.
Comment by Sam I ain't — August 10, 2007 @ 11:35 am
I've never really tried nor had the need to us Enzyte for natural male enhancement.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:38 amBut they do offer free samples, and have pretty funny innuendo commercials,
so yeah, go ahead and give it a shot. You may be pleasently suprised, and so may your partner
I find it ironic and simplistic how these arguements go! It is like I am on a playground at some government school listening to kids discussing another child.
Grow up and put some rationale debate. Calling each other names and referring to people being inbred does nothing.
Some of "YOU" are claiming to be tolerate but only tolerate to those who share the same view as you.
Can we not respect those we disagree with?
Has civility gone bye-bye?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:39 amGerald Gibson,
There weren't that may Muslims back then in Maerica.
The founding fathers wouldn't have want Sharia to be law like you and your CAIR buddies!
I love how you Leftists always come to the defense of Islam.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:39 amIt's your Achilles heel and it's a shame more on the Right don't realize this.
wow.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:39 amSounds like Sam needs a Bong Hit from Jeebus....
Trolls are supporters of LIES, which leads them to believe in falsehoods too easily.
And they're just too damn dense to realize that their support for the Neocon's agenda makes them MORE responsible for Global Terrorism than any BS posted here.
Ignorance is truly bliss.
REBUPLICANS LOVE TERRORISTS/TERRORISM. It's the greatest thing to happen to the Right Wing since Watergate(when they learned the 'value' of dishonesty, and how to govern corruptly).
Why do Republican's hate America?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:40 amnanlichi,
August 10th, 2007 at 11:40 amHowe about using the Koran as toilet papaer?
Isn't that funny?
How about using Mohamed's Turban to house clean?
Comment by nanlichi — August 10, 2007 @ 11:38 am
**SNERK***
oohhhh
i think I just snorted coffee....
August 10th, 2007 at 11:41 amPlain and simple, and addressing the topic, Sali is not representative of most Christians. There has been much liberty taken here today in an attempt to slander the religion because of this guy Sai, but most of it is just puerile ranting.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:41 amComment by Sam
Well sam ... I got a Ron Paul sticker on my car right now... last I checked he is Republican not lefty... I grew up evangelical christian.. I got saved and baptised.. I took it very seriously until I started going to the public library and reading about the history of my own religion...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:41 amwhiteyfresh,
August 10th, 2007 at 11:41 amBetter a bong hit fro Jesus than exploding belt from Allah!
wow.
Sounds like Sam needs a Bong Hit from Jeebus….
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 10, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Or a blow job, perhaps Mark Foley could help, assuming Sam is under 17.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:42 amGerald Gibson is a supporter of Islam.
It’s funny how the Left hates Christians but supports Muslims.
Strange.
Gerald why don’t you just convert?
Comment by Samatha — August 10, 2007 @ 11:31 am
See?
To an inbred sack of sh$t like this, endorsing religious diversity means endorsing Muslims.
Its just the repeat-a-troll drone.
He's as big of a liar as was his mom, who told him the guy in her bedroom is his dad.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:42 amNo muslims in America?
“Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. â€
-Ben Franklin
http://www.pioneernet.net/ rbrannan/ whitefield/ bfongw.htm
Ben Franklin seemed to have a spot for them to come preach...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:42 amOh, and just in case you didn’t know: Name calling and foul language doesn’t count as actual debate..or even as real thought.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:34 am
That's about the only thing you've ever said I can agree w/...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:43 amHow about using Mohamed’s Turban to house clean?
Comment by Sam I is — August 10, 2007 @ 11:40 am
How about buying some Tucks, or some witch hazel, to help soothe you after those hard, uncomfortable, and painful bowel movements associated with hemorrhoids?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:43 amThe constitution, and its first amendment, was written at a time when the predominant religious view was, and was assumed to always be, Christianity.
Without the influence of this belief, what is going to keep the united in United States of America?
Will there continue to be a USA without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
Comment by bitblt — August 10, 2007 @ 11:32 am
As you may have noticed, the country has changed just a smidge since the 18th Century. We now count Negroes as full human beings, for example - not just 60% of human beings. And we even allow non-white, non-male, non-land-owning citizens to VOTE (even though only about 30% of us actually do) - imagine THAT!
And we are no longer a nation of all Protestant regicidal terrorists. We now have representation from all world religions. The thing that unites us is the Constitution, with its amendment that guarantees freedom of religion.
You seem to be confusing "unity" with "uniformity." There's a slight difference in spelling. Unity doesn't mean that everyone believes exactly the same thing. Unity doesn't mean that one belief is dominant and all others accept their second class status. Unity means that differing people with differing views come together as equals and unite for the common good.
Yes, there will continue to be a USA without the influence of Christianity and the Bible. But I believe there will be a better USA with the influence of Christianity and the Bible and Islam and the Quraan and Hinduism and the Baghavad Gita, and many more.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:43 amwhiteyfresh,
Better a bong hit fro Jesus than exploding belt from Allah!
Comment by Sam — August 10, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Well, I really can't argue with you there...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:44 am:)
There has been much liberty taken here today in an attempt to slander the religion because of this guy Sai, but most of it is just puerile ranting.
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Careful, SH - you're "thinking" and that will only lead to trouble...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:44 amCan anyone believe, that in this day and age, we are actually debating whether or not there should be religious freedom in America?
:|
Our founding fathers must be spinning like tops.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:45 amI don't think Sam uses the word "love" the way it should be used. He's says he "loves the way you leftists......" but then he follows it with hatred.
Sam, you are so conflicted. You need a hug. Or a bong. Or both.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:45 ambrilliance as always, toasterhead.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:45 amOf course, these are the same backwater inbred hillbillies, who wanted to reopen the Scopes Monkey Trials.
BAWAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
August 10th, 2007 at 11:45 amIt appears that the ones on Mr. Sali's side want less religious freedom.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:46 amShave an inbred republicans head and walk him backwards and you'll have an animal almost as smart as a dog.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:46 amCan we not respect those we disagree with?
Has civility gone bye-bye?
Take a look at the very first post for your answer. I come here to laugh and point at the liberals, mostly because their activity belies the name of the blog. Are they representative of all libs, certainly not, they are the lower-crust of rational thought and thus are fun to rankle.
I wont claim innocence on the matter of insulting, but that attitude arrived the first time I posted. This is not your top-tier debate site, if you want something more cogent, post #1 is about as good as it gets.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:47 amSam,
I keep a Muslim prayer rug in the back of my truck to dry my Labs after a swim. The Koran as ass wpie works for me. I tell you though, the paper they use for the Book of Mormon in the Marriott hotels is the best fire starter ever, even when it's wet you can get it to catch a spark.
They are all meaningless symbols. You fools clutch your symbols and defend your myths like a monkey in a cave, clutching his pretty rock to keep him safe.
Grow up. Evolve and leave your mythological crutches behind.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:47 am"Obviously it hasnt, therefore a person with any sense would realize that the murder of civilians by our troops is an anomoly."
Comment by StarHopper
No, not an anomaly. If it were so rare, they wouldn't have coined the euphemism "collateral damage." Perhaps they could have perserved their moral integrity by instead referring to dead civilians as an "oops?"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:48 amIt would appear that the radical liberals who inhabit sites such as these are among the most intolerant oponents of diversity there are.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Oh, and just in case you didn’t know: Name calling and foul language doesn’t count as actual debate..or even as real thought.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:34 am
That’s about the only thing you’ve ever said I can agree w/…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 10, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Pity Bogfoot threw the first stone, eh?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:49 ambrilliance as always, toasterhead.
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 10, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Thanks! Though I doubt it'll change any troll minds. They'll just ignore it and continue being bigots.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:49 am"So Mr. Bigfoot, why should we have our soldiers (of all colors, religions and creeds) police these people who are killing each other?
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 11:31 am"
Why not? Our policemen do it here in the States. We are a noble country. When we act, we act for noble reasons. We should not abandon the Iraqis to their plight any more than our police should abandon Washington, D.C. or Chicago merely because they have high murder rates.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:49 ampredominant religious view was, and was assumed to always be, Christianity.
Comment by nitwlt — August 10, 2007 @ 11:32 am
Bullsh$t.
The religious view was FREEDOM from ALL religion and state sanction of none.
Just like any 3rd grader would tell you, if you could find one who could dumb down their speech enough for you to comprehend.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:50 amComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 11:29 am
Again, why single out the troops, scapegoating them because a few unethical ones among their ranks, when the culprits are Iraqis who are killing Iraqis?
What the hell is wrong with you?
"Chimpeach!" Chimpeach!" "Chimpeach!"
Yes, your response is already evident. And please, enough with the irrelevent Vietnam propaganda. You lefties then tagged that war into a propaganda machine, and we lost because of it. (You probably wouldn't take this as an insult, which is why you belong in hell.)
August 10th, 2007 at 11:51 amFounding Father Thomas Paine author of "Common Sense"
"It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes. "
-Thomas Paine
"That God cannot lie, is no advantage to your argument, because it is no proof that priests can not, or that the Bible does not. "
-Thomas Paine
"There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice. "
August 10th, 2007 at 11:51 am-Thomas Paine
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 11:47 am
ooh! ooh! look at me! I'm a "raving liberal"! Careful, you might rankle me! then I'll have to rant about how communism is great and we have to raise taxes and how Bush is the Anti-Christ!Quick! Where's a Muslim? I just wanna give him a BIG OLE HUG!
Happy?
Now, Go away if you have no reason to be here. If this site is SOO bad, why are you here?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:52 amYes, your response is already evident. And please, enough with the irrelevent Vietnam propaganda. You lefties then tagged that war into a propaganda machine, and we lost because of it. (You probably wouldn’t take this as an insult, which is why you belong in hell.)
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Looks like you are chanelling some Germans from 1918 now.....
August 10th, 2007 at 11:53 amI come here to laugh and point at the liberals, mostly because their activity belies the name of the blog.
Comment by Sh$tty Sh$tty Turd — August 10, 2007 @ 11:47 am
You come here to do your masters bidding, like the little greasy worm you are.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:53 amMe want what Bigfoot is smoking: Northern Lights, Humbolt Gold?
Especially like the "we act noble" part!
TOO FUNNY.
Invading a sovereign nation simply because they wouldn't play economics with us (i.e. open their oil industry to foreign companies) is about as noble as murdering an infant in order to take his pacifier.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:55 amWhy not? Our policemen do it here in the States. We are a noble country. When we act, we act for noble reasons. We should not abandon the Iraqis to their plight any more than our police should abandon Washington, D.C. or Chicago merely because they have high murder rates.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
So when are our soldiers going to start policing the streets of all other countries in this world? When are they going to chase down the murders of Russia or South Africa or Israel? When are they going to stop the theifs in China or Australia? Dont you have the slightest clue what soldiers are for?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:55 amNo, not an anomaly. If it were so rare, they wouldn’t have coined the euphemism “collateral damage.†Perhaps they could have perserved their moral integrity by instead referring to dead civilians as an “oops?â€
You will notice I used the word "murder". "Collateral" specifies unintended damage or death.
Now I suppose we could parse the word murder a few hundred times in an attempt to tie it in with the term "collateral damage" but I hope you understand I used murder in the colloquial sense.
"Murder" by our troops does happen, but it is still an anomoly. If 150,000 American troops in Iraq were intent on murder, you would notice the results.
August 10th, 2007 at 11:55 am"There weren’t that may Muslims back then in Maerica."
If you counted the black ones in chains, there were quite a few...
August 10th, 2007 at 11:55 amgo back and read post 208, and put David Cross in your mind when he's doing his bit about Ashcroft and "the devil".
"got my pitchfork for stickin bad guys in the tuckus"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:56 amYou lefties then tagged that war into a propaganda machine, and we lost because of it. (You probably wouldn’t take this as an insult, which is why you belong in hell.)
Comment by CT_Virgin 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 11:51 am
August 10th, 2007 at 11:56 amComment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 11:49 am
I'm sure you held the same view when it was Kosovo and Clinton leading the way.
I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the fiscally responsible Bush administration explaining how to pay for this expenditure.
In your post above it appears since you don't have the understanding of the difference between local authorities and federal forces that we should have armed military acting as policemen here.
Am I reading you correct or have you jumped again to some other factless point?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:56 amMe want what Bigfoot is smoking: Northern Lights, Humbolt Gold?
mmmmmmmMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm....
;)
August 10th, 2007 at 11:57 amGerald,
August 10th, 2007 at 11:57 amYou just keep proving my point on the Left's support of Islam and htred toward Christianity.
Thanks.
Keep posting and making my point!
#215 whiteyfresh
I think most trolls are replica's of the character in "Run Ronny, Run!"
August 10th, 2007 at 11:59 amGerald,
You just keep proving my point on the Left’s support of Islam and htred toward Christianity.
Thanks.
Keep posting and making my point!
Comment by Sam
I am only 33... I am qouting early Americans from 200 years ago... I didnt invent it.. I am just qouting people such as Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine... you insult THEM not me... feel good now?
August 10th, 2007 at 11:59 amNC-y'know, I can see that....
August 10th, 2007 at 12:00 pmIf you counted the black ones in chains, there were quite a few…
Comment by barfly — August 10, 2007 @ 11:55 am
Good point!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:00 pmWe are a noble country. When we act, we act for noble reasons.
O. Bogfoot
Wow, the Myth of American Exceptionalism Kool Aid is still flowing, eh?
Find me something noble in the following:
1. Annexation of Hawaii
2. Annexation of Cuba and the Phillipines
3. Coup in Iran 1953
4. Guatemala
5. Chile
6. Vietnam
7. Nicaragua
8. Panama
9. Guatamala again
10. Iraq
Go take your White Man's Burden elsewhere.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:00 pm"Collateral†specifies unintended damage or death."
When you invade a city (or a sovereign nation) there's bound to be a whole lot of dead civilians. That's why you ONLY do it as a last resort. The Iraq invasion was never a last resort. It was done to counter a bogus imminent threat cooked up by the office of special plans.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:01 pmI come here to laugh and point at the liberals, mostly because their activity belies the name of the blog.
Example: You come here to do your masters bidding, like the little greasy worm you are.
Cogent, rational, even handed, yep thats "Think Progress".
Whitey, I never said I didnt like it here. The site is bad because the lib trolls who populate, trolls like you, are just so...soo....so...laughable.
I come here to point and laugh at you, and everyday the site provides so much for me to laugh and point at.
Thankyou :-)
August 10th, 2007 at 12:02 pmSam,
Supporters of Bushco have created more new terrorist recruits than ANY OTHER SINGLE ACTIVITY.
Why do inbred neocon-bootlickers like you WANT more terrorists?
Whose the REAL supporter of a stronger Islam? YOU FOOL.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:02 pmGerald,
You just keep proving my point on the Left’s support of Islam and htred toward Christianity.
Thanks.
Keep posting and making my point!
Comment by Sam — August 10, 2007 @ 11:57 am
And you just keep proving my point on the Right's support of racism, bigotry, and hatred of all non-Aryans. Your constant posts about the need to racially, religiously, and ethnically purify the United States speak volumes about your character, and that of your party.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:03 pmGerald Gibson,
August 10th, 2007 at 12:04 pmYou're quoating them bash to bash Christianity.
That's your goal.
That's why when Islam is attacked you get very sensitive.
You're a hypocrite as the many of the founding fathers were skeptical of all religions.
However Leftists like you just bash Christians and defend Islam.
Why?
What is it about Islam that you become like a Crying little girl who's doll is stolen when it comes to Islam?
Yet here you are enjoying the results of our national policies. Have you moved to another country yet to show your distaste for our past actions or do you accept them as history?
You should make a list of the postive things the United States has done, do you know them as well as these negative things?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pmDamn italics. My fingeees are getting tired, it may be time for a cold Carta Blanca.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:07 pmWeren't most of the founding fathers deist? Not christian?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:07 pmToaterhead,
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pmDid you nknow Iranians are White Aryans?
You're a clown, I'm not even Anglo or Aryan.
Islam is a cult that must not be allowed to spread here.
Of course you leftists hate Christians so much you view them as allies.
If Muslims are ever the majority here, you'll see what good allies they are of you!
When you invade a city (or a sovereign nation) there’s bound to be a whole lot of dead civilians.
Irrelevant to the claim that the individual soldiers are intent on murder.
Yes, civilian deaths happen in war, every war, the question is whether the American troops entered Iraq and INTENTIONALLY set about murdering civilians. The answer is no.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pmReal Americans wont let Christians nor Muslims ruin our Constitution... you are just pissed that we wont let your religion do it... so you slander us by saying we are pro-islam... ANTI christian fascism does NOT equal pro-islam... you can understand there are more than 2 choices right?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pmthe question is whether the American troops entered Iraq and INTENTIONALLY set about murdering civilians. The answer is no.
Comment by StarHopper
The question is whether YOU sent the soldiers intentionally to kill them because they are muslim... and the anwer is YES... soldiers dont send themselves... they didnt buy plane tickets over there.. YOU sent them.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThe left is required to accept radical islam, they NEED their overlords to tell them what to do and how to think. Its a natural fit.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:14 pm#
Islam sucks!
Comment by Carlos — August 10, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Lot of meaningful information there.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:14 pmWhitey, I never said I didnt like it here. The site is bad because the lib trolls who populate, trolls like you, are just so…soo….so…laughable.
I come here to point and laugh at you, and everyday the site provides so much for me to laugh and point at.
Thankyou :-)
Comment by Pretty Pretty Bird — August 10, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Well, If you're laughing, then your soul isn't lost yet..
unless it's that evil, heartless Republican laugh...
August 10th, 2007 at 12:14 pmI'm sure you know the one...
I think you miss the purpose of the term"troll".
On this LIBERAL web site, we have wonderful, intelligent discussions,often humorous, usually slightly rambling, until the TROLLS(i.e. YOU) start showing up slinging insults and making totally stupid comments and acting like,well, Republicans..
#
The left is required to accept radical islam, they NEED their overlords to tell them what to do and how to think. Its a natural fit.
Comment by Omar Bin Farteen — August 10, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
DON'T FEED THIS TROLL!!! This is gonna be a nasty one if ya let him in!
DON'T FEED THIS TROLL!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:15 pmIslam is a cult that must not be allowed to spread here.
If Muslims are ever the majority here, you’ll see what good allies they are of you!
Comment by Sam — August 10, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Thank you for proving my point. You are nothing but a fearmongering bigot and I have no further interest in discussing this with you. If you want to believe that I hate Christians, go ahead. I really don't care what a bigot like yourself thinks of me.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:16 pmSon of Sam,
I don't see any posts defending Islam, I see a lot of posts slamming Christianity and ALL religions. It's not a zero sum game, slamming Christianity does not equate to defending Islam.
The only ones here that are claiming that their religion is the one and only are the Christians. And that's what pisses us atheists off, your claim to know the truth.
It is lazy and dishonest to claim that Christianity is the one true religion. Bullshit. You f*cks who blow Jesus have no more claim to being right than the dumb f*cks who blow Mohammed.
StarHopper....try a Negra Modelo instead of Carta Blanca. Thicker glass bottles, stays colder longer.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:17 pmANTI christian fascism does NOT equal pro-islam… you can understand there are more than 2 choices right?
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
No, they really can't understand that. It doesn't help their cause to frame the issue as anything other than good vs. evil.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:19 pmThe question is whether YOU sent the soldiers intentionally to kill them because they are muslim… and the anwer is YES… soldiers dont send themselves… they didnt buy plane tickets over there.. YOU sent them.
Sigh...if we sent them to kill because they are muslim, dont you think our tanks would be rolling through Baghdad and firing blindly into every building? Wouldnt our bombers simply pound Tikrit and Mosul to dust? If the intent is simple killing, we wouldnt accept Iraqis into our military hospitals.
Foreign policy aside, the question is whether our troops intend to murder (again used in the colloquial) civilians. You can dance around the issue all you like and change your statements but it wont wash. You know our troops are not INTENTIONALLY murdering civilians.
Can we move on now or are you going to argue this just to argue?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:20 pmdiscussing religion with any troll is more dangerous than hunting with Dick Cheney. Less fun than having a memory contest with Alberto Gonzo. More mind boggling than getting the facts out of Rumsfeld.
It's as if listening, reason, logic, humility and respect for others hasn't been introduced to these poor souls.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:20 pmOsama == muslim...
Right after 911 on the web you people were posting shit like "kill all muslms ... kill the palastinians..."
Your leaders then picked the weekest target that was muslim and wasnt an "ally" of the bush family and attacked them... Was Osama in Iraq? No. Did ANYONE claim Osama had escaped TO Iraq? No. Did anyone have proof that Iraq had funded Al Qeada? Nope... that was Pakistan and Saudi Arabia...
August 10th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThe comments made by Bill Sali and many others who have posted today do not sound too different from Osama Bin Laden and Ayaman Al-Zawahiri. Its that type of ignorance and blind belief in supernatural beings that allow american people to be controlled by this administration. This is how the masses have been controlled since the beginning of civilization.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pmThe idea that we are "Christian" nation LIE just refuses to die!
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
Most of the founding fathers were DEISTS, in other words they believed in a "Creator", but not in the "magical" aspects of Christianity and other like religions (i.e. virgin births, returning from the dead, etc.).
If people looked at the Jefferson Bible, they would know this and stop spreading this same old LIE!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pmRep. Sali = Christofascist sack of shit.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pmStarHopper….try a Negra Modelo instead of Carta Blanca. Thicker glass bottles, stays colder longer.
I hear ya, though Im not a fan of darker beers in the summer. I like the Modelo Especial but the bottle has that odd bell shape and wont fit into a coolie.
Perhaps a Pacifico would work too.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pm"Irrelevant to the claim that the individual soldiers are intent on murder."
When you rev up your troops by telling them they are on a "crusade" to battle terrorism, and that they are going to fight muslim terrorists, only a fool would think that they weren't being given the tacit approval to treat all muslims as possible terrorists. Or as possble VC, as in Vietnam.
"Yes, civilian deaths happen in war, every war, the question is whether the American troops entered Iraq and INTENTIONALLY set about murdering civilians. The answer is no."
There was a recent trial about just that, and the soldier was convicted of killing innocent civilians - even setting them up, by killing them and then planting weapons on them.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pmWhat our forefathers actually intended was to slowly factor out the rampant inbreeding of retarded rednecks like Representative Sali and his trellis-like family tree.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:27 pmPerhaps a Pacifico would work too.
Comment by StarHopper
NOW you're talkin'.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pmI mean, for dog's sake: look at the guy's picture. How long is it before he's caught crawling over a toilet stall in a men's room somewhere along Interstate 90 offering blowjobs to cops posing as long-haul truckers? It's pretty obvious what his family values are: "rolling your own."
August 10th, 2007 at 12:29 pmThe comments made by Bill Sali and many others who have posted today do not sound too different from Osama Bin Laden and Ayaman Al-Zawahiri.
So the question is do you want to group all Christians or all conservatives in with Sali while simaltaneously grouping all muslims in with OBL or Zawahiri?
Believe it or not, for those wanting to stereotype, there are conservatives out here who abhor guys like Sali, just as there are liberals who shy away from the far-left fringe.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:29 pmBelieve it or not, for those wanting to stereotype, there are conservatives out here who abhor guys like Sali, just as there are liberals who shy away from the far-left fringe.
Comment by StarHopper
Sure there is. We are not worried about them destroying the Constitution just people like Sali that are in the government are are pushing this false idea that America == Christian Taliban... those people can harm the Constitution.. Muslims cannot..
August 10th, 2007 at 12:31 pmNOW you’re talkin’.
You got it brother, non-partisan common cause found in the world of beer.
Perhaps if our legislators were to drag a few kegs of Zwiec or Tecate into their chambers and share a pint, they might get more done and with less bickering.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:34 pmPerhaps if our legislators were to drag a few kegs of Zwiec or Tecate into their chambers and share a pint, they might get more done and with less bickering.
Comment by StarHopper
Whatever breaks the crust of partisanship so that broad thinking can enter their brains the better.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:37 pmBelieve it or not, for those wanting to stereotype, there are conservatives out here who abhor guys like Sali, just as there are liberals who shy away from the far-left fringe.
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
And where are their statements criticizing him? Where are all these conservatives who are criticizing Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin and Little Green Footballs for their hate-filled rhetoric? I don't see them being quoted in the media. I don't see them posting here. The silence of the "moderate right" on this issue is deafening.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:37 pmLefties practice their own racism and bigotry by labeling this country "too white" or "too christian." The "radical right-wing's" assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:38 pm#206 CT_Version 2
Again, why single out the troops, scapegoating them because a few unethical ones among their ranks, when the culprits are Iraqis who are killing Iraqis?
I wouldn't single out the troops. It appears that you have, though, by making that statement. Actually, I blame the commanders who gave the orders to kill civilians. Ever hear of a "free-fire zone"? It wasn't the troops that declared them.
And, if you'll notice, the story I linked to had troops stopping other troops from killing civilians. It wasn't "a few unethical ones" that were killing them. It was a whole platoon under orders.
And the original reference to Vietnam was to give it historical perspective to counter your argument that our troops are too "moral and ethical" to do anything like that.
Nobody here scapegoats the troops and you know that. And few if any of the so-called liberals here take their service for granted. It's not liberals who are always responding to the deaths or maiming of soldiers, or their extended deployments and multiple re-deployments, with "Well they signed the contract. They knew what they were getting into." It's cowardly little putzes whose sense of duty to their country is staying home and calling people unpatriotic, commies, Islamists, etc. for disagreeing with the moron in the White House. It's chickenhawks like them who not only don't support the troops, but they think the troops are suckers for signing up.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:38 pmthose people can harm the Constitution.. Muslims cannot..
Then you have decided to proscribe a perfect sense of morality and ethics onto muslims, something which is impossible.
Keith Ellison is a muslim U.S. congressman from my state of Minnesota, he has just as much chance of harming the Constitution as Sali were he to choose to do so.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:39 pmThe “radical right-wing’s†assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
Comment by CT_Version 2
Spoken like a true shill. (see Manncoulter, M. Malkin, etc.)
August 10th, 2007 at 12:40 pm#206 CnT_Version 2
“Chimpeach!†Chimpeach!†“Chimpeach!â€
Gee, that's effective. Thanks for the publicity, though.
Yes, your response is already evident. And please, enough with the irrelevent Vietnam propaganda. You lefties then tagged that war into a propaganda machine, and we lost because of it. (You probably wouldn’t take this as an insult, which is why you belong in hell.)
I'm guessing that you think Defense Secretary McNamara was also a lefty, since he decided the war was not winnable by military means. Yeah, he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Certainly not as well as an expert military strategist and historian like yourself would.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:42 pmI don’t see them being quoted in the media. I don’t see them posting here. The silence of the “moderate right†on this issue is deafening.
Then you dont understand politics in this age. I dont hear the democrats railing against Edwards poverty stance while he lives in a mansion, nor do I hear them criticizing Gore for his high-energy consumption while he rails about global warming.
You want to make this guy a poster child for all republicans or conservatives.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:43 pm....It appears that you have, though, by making that statement....
Uhhh...come again? I'm not surprised, though. To an inbred lefty, it always "appears" to be something it clearly isn't.
You, sir, are an idiot-supremo.
And to quote TripSurrender Monkey, "the rest of your post isn't worth responding to."
August 10th, 2007 at 12:43 pmAnd, if you’ll notice, the story I linked to had troops stopping other troops from killing civilians. It wasn’t “a few unethical ones†that were killing them. It was a whole platoon under orders.
Yes, a platoon out of 500,000 troops who were stationed in Vietnam.
You might as well blame the entire NYPD for the actions of a few corrupt cops; it doesnt work and the idea that our troops INTENTIONALLY murder civilians is bogus.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:45 pm#267 CnT_Version 2
You, sir, are an idiot-supremo.
All out of ammo, are you?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pmComment by Not Canadian — August 10, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
It's most certainly a logical step ahead of your playbook.
Don't enjoy being rightfully challenged? Then get the f*ck out.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm.†The “radical right-wing’s†assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Please articulate what exactly you see as these assertions/responses. Lay them out so that you opionion which you wish to state as fact can be examined more closely. Thank you...
August 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pmIts been real, time for a Carta Blanca and a dip in the pool.
Adios
August 10th, 2007 at 12:47 pmComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
Take it up with TripSurrender Monkey. His methods for debate, I decided to try here.
You have no case, regardless of anything. Just a bad record.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:48 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
This posting is an example. Do you have to play stupid?
You lefties are pure racists. Now STFU.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:49 pmThe founding fathers also didn't envision dimwits such as Sali & Dubya running the country either. Jefferson was an atheist, he must be rolling in his grave at how low Religionists have brought this country.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:51 pmTypical self-hating lefty:
"It's too White" "Wah!'
"It's too Christian" "Wah!"
"How many white people can we scapegoat in a day? Hey, I have an idea! Let me present it to Milton Bradley!"
August 10th, 2007 at 12:52 pmCT spanks it to Rove sound bytes.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:57 pmMore about Thomas Jefferson’s belief…
In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush on April 21, 1803, Thomas Jefferson wrote:
Dear Sir, In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798-99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others (“The Thomas Jefferson Papers...,†emp. added).
“The Thomas Jefferson Papers Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651-1827†(no date), Library of Congress, [On-line], URL: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mtj1&fileName=mtj1page028.db& recNum=190&itemLink=%2Fammem%2Fcollections%2Fjefferson_papers%2Fmtjser1. html&linkText=6.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:58 pmCT is so far right he refuses to turn left whenever driving.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:58 pmThis posting is an example. Do you have to play stupid?
You lefties are pure racists. Now STFU.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
How so? You were respectfully asked to articulate your opinion so as to allow it to be examined in an objective manner? Were you disrespected in anyway? Called stupid? Rascist? Or told to STFU?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:59 pmCT is so conservative he doesn't flush after #1 or #2.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:59 pmBringing in facts and quotes from real americans only confuses CT. He wasn't spoon fed this from Rove.
CT puts the Con in neocon. He puts the Lick in Republican. He's not an a$$hole, he's the whole A$$.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:02 pmYou know our troops are not INTENTIONALLY murdering civilians.
Can we move on now or are you going to argue this just to argue?
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
You are wrong, and it has been proven. it doesn't mean all troops are murderers, but it does mean that some are. and conflating Edwards' and Gore's positions on domestic issues is just more of your turd-flinging. A rich man fighting poverty is the very essence of Judeo-Christian morality. You don't fool me, you're just a hater. Republican, no doubt.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:02 pmThen you dont understand politics in this age. I dont hear the democrats railing against Edwards poverty stance while he lives in a mansion, nor do I hear them criticizing Gore for his high-energy consumption while he rails about global warming.
You want to make this guy a poster child for all republicans or conservatives.
Comment by StarHopper — August 10, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
Because we recognize these as non-issues to be dragged out by people with nothing substantive to say. I care much more about policies to alleviate poverty and arrest global warming than I do about the personal lives of the people making them.
Yes, if I found out that Al Gore was killing baby seals with a coal-powered tractor every weekend, or that John Edwards owned a textile factory in Cambodia and was employing ten-year-olds at $1.08 a month, I wouldn't support them personally, but it wouldn't change my stance on the issues of poverty and global warming.
In this case, we have two elected members of Congress, in a public capacity spouting hate speech about Muslim-Americans and claiming that religious freedom is not enshrined in the Constitution. If Republicans and conservative bloggers do not speak out against this, you are making him your poster child.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:02 pm#1 reason why CT doesn't join the military? Fratricide.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:03 pm#1 reason why CT doesn’t join the military? Fratricide.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
well, and the fact that the military is anti-gay.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmMore about Thomas Jefferson’s belief…
In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush on April 21, 1803, Thomas Jefferson wrote:
To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others
Comment by bitblt — August 10, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
Thank you very much for proving exactly what I've been trying to say in this thread. Jefferson was opposed to the corrupted Christianity of the type Rep. Sali seems to follow. He sought a more pure belief, based on Jesus' teachings of love and forgiveness.
Go, TJ!
August 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pm#5 as well as I, the trolls suck ass, I really even visit here anymore, and don't bother to post anymore
August 10th, 2007 at 1:09 pmIn all seriousness, thanks to all who bring the letters of our fouding fathers to this post. Showing all who care to see the true direction they had.
Now back to bashing CT.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:11 pmMexico is too brown.
Statement on that, lefties?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:24 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Your troll poop will hopefully be deleted by admin.
I hope you're proud of yourself.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:26 pmMexico is too brown.
Statement on that, lefties?
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Other than my usual assertion that you're a moron who needs to stop posting? Nope.
P.S. You're a moron who needs to stop posting.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:27 pmCT's moral compass is also conservative. It always points right. That's why he's always going in circles.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:27 pmComment by CT_Version 2:
What a dumba*s. The only thing too brown around here is the sh*t that comes out of your di*k-sucking mouth.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:28 pmCT is so conservative he doesn't throw away the toilet paper until he's used both sides.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:28 pmGlad to see you still here CT. Although I do not approve of the bashing you are taking. I think it is largely self inflicted. Anyway, I was curious if you might respond more thoughtfully to both #272 ans 281. Thanks again
August 10th, 2007 at 1:28 pmoops make that 271 and hope no one is deleted.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:29 pmOn another note, the founding fathers were all basically Christian and used Christian philosophy and doctrine to create the laws of the land. When they talked about 1. Freedom of Religion and 2. non establishment of a state santioned religion, they were protecting against the religious differents of Christian denomonation - not differences in religion itself. They believed that both government and church were equal institutions under God - differing from the Church of England concept where one denomonation was the sanctioned church of the country. I doubt that a hindu prayer would have even been considered, let alone allowed in the Congress of that day.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:30 pmI'm not feeling so good today, maybe that's because America is "too white" or maybe "it's too Christian."
I hate Christmas. It's time for Muslimas. Hey, what's in that package for me? "Boom."
If America wasn't too white, everything would be so bettermas.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:33 pmI doubt that a hindu prayer would have even been considered, let alone allowed in the Congress of that day.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
And many of the Congressmen of the day, including many of the founding fathers, owned slaves. Should we revive that old tradition, too?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pmSo "All men are created equal" only pertains to men that believe in a christian god?
This isn't a grocery store where you can pick and choose the pieces of the constitution and the letters of the founding fathers that suit you and discard the ones that don't.
dbass, CT deserves every insult thrown at him. He can't answer questions that make him question his own perverted notion of what this country is.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
Yeah, what do you want?
Repeat your stupid, uneducated requests.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIf America wasn’t too white, everything would be so bettermas.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
What part of "you're a moron who needs to stop posting" weren't you clear on, CT?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:35 pmWe need more diversity on the commentary board here at TP. There are too many lefty whites commenting.
It just doesn't feel right...so little diversity.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:36 pmRemember the earlier posts when CT was correct? Neither do I.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:36 pmCT assumes I'm left and white. I assume CT graduated 8th grade and then had to work in the field.
Whose closer?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:37 pmComment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Nothing that you say, goes. You should be ignored at all costs.
Consider my response a nice gesture.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:38 pmThe Christian issue is more cultural. It is the Christian philosophy that stands behind the laws of this land and the culture - our ability to determine right from wrong. Although society is not perfect, the levels of what are right and wrong are. Yes the founding fathers had slaves and basically started the move to outlaw the institution because of Christian thought. It was the Catholics of the North East that led the abolition movement.
The problem that we are seeing is a change in culture that is potentially incompatable with what makes us America. We don't opress our woman and force them to walk around looking like icons from a PacMan game. We don't blow innocent people up in the name of our Lord (the very few that do are criminals and creating a moral equivalency between a few abortion clinic bombers and 25+% of Islam is rediculous at best).
August 10th, 2007 at 1:38 pmWe need more diversity on the commentary board here at TP. There are too many lefty whites commenting.
It just doesn’t feel right…so little diversity.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
Thank you for making sure the brain-dead moron demographic is fully covered.
Now please stop posting.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:38 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
There's a demand for lefty whites to hate themselves for minorities in our nation. Once your all used up, however, be warned: they'll have no further use for you.
What's that chill in the air? Oh wait....it's too white.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:40 pmIt’s not clear to me when you say…
whether or not you think Jesus was giving out “Get out of Jail Free†card.
That is, do you think Jesus didn’t condemn sin, do you think he was “Ok†with sin, or do you think He ignored the sin?
These are Jesus’ words as recorded in John 5:24-30. You can decide who Jesus thought about sin.
Do you think He meant the things he said?
Jefferson, on the other hand, would have noted the word “judge†and “judgement†in the scripture. Jefferson was a lawyer and a law maker.
In fact Jefferson suggested some rather harsh penalties for some crimes. Jefferson advocated emasculation as the penalty for homosexuality in the state of Virginia.
Apparently, Jefferson was interested in justice, just like Jesus, just like most people, and just like God.
People expect that God can and will deliver justice.
Source Jefferson information:
August 10th, 2007 at 1:42 pmJefferson, Thomas (1903), Writings of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Albert Bergh (Washington, DC: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association).
Okay CT maybe we should take them one at a time what with my stupidity and all...
1) .†The “radical right-wing’s†assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Please articulate what exactly you see as these assertions/responses. Lay them out so that you opinion which you wish to state as fact can be examined more closely. Thank you…
Here I am asking that you delineate those ideas/actions of the right which you see as "rightful and concerned"
2) This posting is an example. Do you have to play stupid?
You lefties are pure racists. Now STFU.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
How so? You were respectfully asked to articulate your opinion so as to allow it to be examined in an objective manner? Were you disrespected in anyway? Called stupid? Rascist? Or told to STFU?
Here I am asking why such vitriol should follow a request for you to engage in a dialogue when I showed you nothing but courtesy.
3) How are either one or two "stupid or uneducated" which by the way seems redundant.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pmComment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
So, Mr. Toasterhead, what demographic should you be considered part of? You'd fit right in the braindead muslim-sucking demographic. It's a disturbing growth chain in this country, one that needs to be combated immediately.
I don't take orders from prospective dictators. Communist slime who refuses intellectual challenge should be disposed of. Your meddling way of life should be disposed of.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pmThe problem that we are seeing is a change in culture that is potentially incompatable with what makes us America. We don’t opress our woman and force them to walk around looking like icons from a PacMan game. We don’t blow innocent people up in the name of our Lord (the very few that do are criminals and creating a moral equivalency between a few abortion clinic bombers and 25+% of Islam is rediculous at best).
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Islam does not oppress women. Islam does not condone the killing of innocent people. Equality of the sexes is written into the Quraan, as are several suras that promote democracy and public participation.
Yes, religious and political leaders in some Muslim countries have abused their authority and used the religion as an excuse to oppress people. That doesn't mean the religion is incompatible with our culture.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:46 pmNeither George's (W. Bush or Washington) believes as Sali does.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:46 pmhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050115-3.html
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
This guy is fear personified.
He's almost too wacked to be scary. Perhaps we should fear the folks in Idaho that elected him.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:47 pmCT is being used by the Rovian fear machine. Anything other than what CT was taught by Mommy CT and maybe daddy (if he was around) is bad and can't be looked at as possible answers to any of the ills in CT's world. That would require CT to question what's already been shoved into the now closed mind of CT.
You are being used by this administration. And you've already been discarded but just don't know it yet.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:48 pmReligious Diversity In Congress ‘Was Not Envisioned By The Founding Fathers’
You can not argue with that fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:51 pmHey CT!
God Bless You!
†
August 10th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
It's apparent you have nothing of note, except lefty talking-points ("Rovian Fear Machine", "BushCo", "Chimpeach")
Really, how do you expect to be taken seriously. Leave the talking-points department and come back to America.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:54 pmOn another note, the founding fathers were all basically Christian and used Christian philosophy and doctrine to create the laws of the land. When they talked about 1. Freedom of Religion and 2. non establishment of a state santioned religion, they were protecting against the religious differents of Christian denomonation - not differences in religion itself. They believed that both government and church were equal institutions under God - differing from the Church of England concept where one denomonation was the sanctioned church of the country. I doubt that a hindu prayer would have even been considered, let alone allowed in the Congress of that day.
Comment by John Sacks
Completely false... it is well known by those that go to the library or bother to use Google that the founding fathers were mostly deists and unitarians nor christians... they had lengthy debates with the rabid christians of the day about their bigoted ways and these debates were written in letters that we have access to read to this day. They talked agaisnt ascribing everything to the christian faith and instead talked about rights that came from A creator (deists) not THE christian creator... look it up ... dont take my word for it.
“Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. â€
-Ben Franklin
http://www.pioneernet.net/ rbrannan/ whitefield/ bfongw.htm
August 10th, 2007 at 1:55 pmComment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
p? Is that you?
Codeword: GMU
August 10th, 2007 at 1:57 pmLefties practice their own racism and bigotry by labeling this country “too white†or “too christian.†The “radical right-wing’s†assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
Comment by CT_Version 2
Who ever said this country was too christian? The complaint is that the christians dont keep there religion between themselves and their god instead of wearing on their sleeve and going out on the street corner and proclaiming it loudly ... which is exactly what Jesus said NOT to do...
August 10th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThese are Jesus’ words as recorded in John 5:24-30. You can decide who Jesus thought about sin.
Do you think He meant the things he said?
Jefferson, on the other hand, would have noted the word “judge†and “judgement†in the scripture. Jefferson was a lawyer and a law maker.
Comment by bitblt — August 10, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Jesus never spoke those words. None of those words even existed when Jesus was alive, so it's ludicrous to try and argue what Thomas Jefferson may have thought based on them.
Yes, Jefferson was a lawyer and legislator. That doesn't mean he fancied himself as god-like, passing final judgement on sinners. And it doesn't imply that he believed the United States should be solely a Christian nation that is intolerant of other faiths.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:58 pmCT, what part of a hindu prayer scares you? What part of religious diversity do you think will be the downfall of this country? I'm done with any "talking points" you may think I'd fall back on.
I'm asking you what is the big fear?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:59 pmCompletely false… it is well known by those that go to the library or bother to use Google that the founding fathers were mostly deists and unitarians nor christians…
FALSE. This is a myth that started to show up on the Internet a few years ago. Deists believe in a God that set the world in motion then washed his hands of the process - kind of like a watchmaker. This was a new age religion that centered in France during that time period - and Jefferson definately played with the notion - but none of the founding fathers were actually Deists.
The proof is in the fact that Congress, from day one started with opening and closing prayers. Deists don't pray - given their belief that God doesn not intervene there is nothing to pray for. So, you are very wrong about that - the founding fathers were all Christian.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:59 pmLook up Deists and unitarians.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:00 pmThen you have decided to proscribe a perfect sense of morality and ethics onto muslims, something which is impossible.
Keith Ellison is a muslim U.S. congressman from my state of Minnesota, he has just as much chance of harming the Constitution as Sali were he to choose to do so.
Comment by StarHopper
Incorrect. There just are not enough muslims in our government to do such a thing. Ellison is only ONE... not the large number that would be needed to cause harm... and watch what the left does to him if he EVER tries to tell people that this is a country that follows GOD instead of the Constitution he will be treated equally bad as do the fascist christians like the guy this post is about.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:02 pmYeah, what do you want?
Repeat your stupid, uneducated requests.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I did. I look forward to your response. If I miss them I will look for them upon return from work. Thanks
August 10th, 2007 at 2:04 pmThen you dont understand politics in this age. I dont hear the democrats railing against Edwards poverty stance while he lives in a mansion, nor do I hear them criticizing Gore for his high-energy consumption while he rails about global warming.
You want to make this guy a poster child for all republicans or conservatives.
Comment by StarHopper
There is nothing immoral about being rich or being rich and trying to help the environment... there is something immoral about violating the U.S. Constitution and mixing religion with government.
And apparently you have not been paying attention... at the last democratic debates Hillary, for example, got booed for saying that talking frankly is a bad idea...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pmIt's a tragedy that so many in America today are woefully ignorant and backward compared to the Founders, whose language regarding religion's role in politics and government could not have been more clear, or more forward-thinking.
Supersition will be the end of us all.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pmDeism is a religious philosophy and movement that became prominent in Great Britain, France, and the United States in the 17th and 18th centuries and continues to this day. Deism differs from theism in that according to Deism God does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe.
Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and divine revelation prominent in organized religion, along with holy books and revealed religions that assert the existence of such things. Instead, Deists hold that religious beliefs must be founded on human reason and observed features of the natural world, and that these sources reveal the existence of one God or supreme being.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:07 pmCaption Contest: "come in tonight and receive a free homemade dinner roll with every meal"
August 10th, 2007 at 2:07 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
The timing is wrong. Winning the War on Terror can't involve stuffing our congress - let alone, our country - with 20 different middle-eastern - the religions of our enemy.
Also, it's not so much the left's call for diversity as it is their eagerness to reduce Christianity to the gutter, the well-documented history of their hatred for it. If Christianity were to be dissolved entirely, the left probably wouldn't be calling for it to be reincorporated for the sake of "diversity."
The timing, again, is wrong. And the left, as usual, has their motives to distort perfectly healthy demographics.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:09 pmIt is not about superstition, it is about having a solid line separating good from evil, immoral and moral behavior, etc. Without a solid philosophy to base a culture on, then we get moral relatism which leads ultimately to anarchy - which is what is happening by the few who attempt to remove God from the public discussion alltogether.
The founding fathers were moral men and their morality was based on their understanding of Christianity - whether devout followers or cultural Christians. This is a fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:10 pmBenjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[36]
August 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pmDeists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and divine revelation prominent in organized religion, along with holy books and revealed religions that assert the existence of such things. Instead, Deists hold that religious beliefs must be founded on human reason and observed features of the natural world, and that these sources reveal the existence of one God or supreme being.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
You describe it somewhat. You obviously are cutting and pasting and don't understand the core of it. It is a fact that Deists do not pray because they don't believe that the supreme being interacts with what he set in motion.
The founding fathers prayed - before and after every meeting. If they were Deists this would not have been the case.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pmFounding Fathers who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams,Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, Hugh Williamson, James Wilson,[31] and James Madison.[32] Although these men were members of traditional Christian denominations (Hugh Williamson was a Presbyterian and the rest were Episcopalians), their political speeches show distinct Deistic influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly Deist. These include Ethan Allen[33] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize Deism throughout America and Europe). Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American Deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize Deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York."
August 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pmComment by John Sacks
Non christians bow their heads when christians are praying all the time to this day... cherry picking does not cut it here.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThis is a fact.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Then as such empirical evidences should be available to show your statement to be factual. Please direct me to them.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:13 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
And this time, at this moment in our nation's history, I'm telling you: You are worrying about the wrong religion.
The violently threatning religion at this point is, *gasp*, not Christianity. It is radical Islam. For the sake of our nations sanity and security, put your head on right.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:13 pmp? Is that you?
Codeword: GMU
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 1:57 pm
---
It sure is, my VA brother!
Howdy!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:14 pmCT_Version 2???????????
August 10th, 2007 at 2:14 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
You are cutting and pasting text from the Internet that is fighting to argue that they were Diests - but you are not listening and it is pretty clear that you really don't know what you are talking about. Taking an argument that fits what you want to be true from the Internet is how 99% of posters (from left and right) do to make their point. Very shallow.
Again, Deists do not pray and the founding fathers were big proponants of prayer. Yes, as educated men they studied all the modern philopsophies of the time - especially Jefferson and Franklin who were not devout Christians.
That said, you are just plain wrong in this particular argument.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:16 pmHEY!!!
ALL OF YOU IDIOT LEFTIES!!!
THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE CHRISTIANS!!!
DEAL WITH IT!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:16 pmThe founding fathers were moral men and their morality was based on their understanding of Christianity - whether devout followers or cultural Christians. This is a fact.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
And they chose, based on that sense of morality, to write a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that did not establish a state religion and did not insist on a religious test for officeholders. This, too, is a fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pmAnd this time, at this moment in our nation’s history, I’m telling you: You are worrying about the wrong religion.
The violently threatning religion at this point is, *gasp*, not Christianity. It is radical Islam. For the sake of our nations sanity and security, put your head on right.
Comment by CT_Version 2
Worrying about ALL RELIGIONS is the right thing to be worrying about... if we dont let ANY religions control this government then we are free from Islam are we not?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pmAnd they chose, based on that sense of morality, to write a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that did not establish a state religion and did not insist on a religious test for officeholders. This, too, is a fact.
Comment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
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So what?
They based everything off of Christian customs.
NOT HINDU, NOT MUSLIM, NOT WHATEVER!!!
LEFTIES, YOU LOSE!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:19 pmComment by John Sacks
Copy and Pasting from the Internet is not proof of falsehood... I learned this stuff from the public library 20 years ago after I watched two churchs fall apart because the preacher and/or his wife was having sex with people that went to that church... I then realized that these people love Israel more than America and are a bunch of hypocrits... so I went to the library and learned... I am pasting from the Internet because it is faster not because I dont already know this stuff... you attacking my pasting does not attack the truth...
PRAYER proves nothing...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pmAh, I see another personality of the Troll Mind has come out. This one calls itself p.
The Founding Fathers may well have been Christians, but you see, they also argued fervently that religion was not to intrude into public affairs. This would be why your boy Sali's on bad terms with us.
And the other personality of the Troll Mind, the ever-defective CT, regardless of version, is still wrong. No, radical Islam isn't the danger to human society. Let me clear this up for it. It's radical ANYTHING. Radical Religion, Radical Communism, Radical Fascism, Radical Conservatism, Radical Liberalism. In essence, anything that seeks to force your ideology down my throat is a problem. But this fact is one CT can't grasp. Radical Christianity is OK in its eyes. It's radical Islam that we all have to worry about. Hey, can I take CT_V2 in and get V3? Maybe they'll have gotten the bugs out this time.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:21 pmAnd they chose, based on that sense of morality, to write a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that did not establish a state religion and did not insist on a religious test for officeholders. This, too, is a fact.
Comment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
They created a Nation Under God. In their view God was at the top and the government and church were equal institutions under God. The government would run the country, make its laws, pay its bills - and the churches (any church allowed) would take care of the culture, the moral issues, etc. They probably were not thinking multiple world religions, but multiple denomations of Christianity. It is fair to think however, that absent of the word Christianity we can take it as to mean any religion.
It does not change their intention of how the country should be however, only ours.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pmLEFTIES, YOU LOSE!!!
Comment by p
There are no winners and there are not losers... just like WAR... this is not a football game....
August 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pmJohn Sacks: "the founding fathers were all Christian."
Nice try, Sacks. Why don't we go to the source:
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
--Thomas Jefferson
"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together" - Madison's letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
-- John Adams
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -- Treaty of Tripoly, article 11
August 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pmTHE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE CHRISTIANS!!!
DEAL WITH IT!!!
Comment by An uneducated illiterate Twit — August 10, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Wrong.
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist.
Another uneducated idiot republican.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pmThey probably were not thinking multiple world religions, but multiple denomations of Christianity.
Comment by John Sacks
“Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. â€
-Ben Franklin
http://www.pioneernet.net/ rbrannan/ whitefield/ bfongw.htm
August 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pmOh god. I'm sorry, you guys. This is my rep -- the most stupid thing since bags of hair.
**hanging head in shame**
August 10th, 2007 at 2:25 pmSali was always a douchebag, but this takes the cake.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:25 pmThe Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831:
"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
    "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
John Sacks, the good Reverend Wilson was around at the same time as our Founders and this was his opinion. On what evidence do you base your opinion that the Founders were christians, other than campaign speech rhetoric taken out of context?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:26 pm[The Founding Fathers] argued fervently that religion was not to intrude into public affairs.
Exactly. So... you lose.
As you say yourself, religious diversity WAS NOT to intrude!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:26 pmThomas Jefferson dabbled in Deism - and died a Christian. Even if he was a deist, that does not support the fact that the Founding fathers were not Christian. Sorry charlie. They liked prayer, Deists did not, plain fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:27 pmComment by Zooey — August 10, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
I thought you were gone for good!!!
HEyOOOOOOOoOOOOOoOOOoOoooO!!!
I new you couldn't stay away, Zo-zO!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pmCT_Version 2???????????
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
August 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pmNo p. Lefties don't lose. The country loses if people like yourself and Sali and other here get to impose their versions of what religion can and can't be accepted.
I had a conversation with the Chaplin of the Army when I was in the service and he showed me the last rites section in his "book". It contained the last rites for every imaginable religion including Satanism. I asked him how he felt about this passage as well as others that go against his specific religion. He said it was the army's view of all being accepted into the service and they deserve to be respected. He also said it wasn't up to him to decide for others.
That's the head chaplin of the Army. I value his insight and wisdom far more than the ranters here opposed to religious freedoms.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pmCT_Version 2???????????
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
---------
Why did you do that?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pmThey created a Nation Under God. In their view God was at the top and the government and church were equal institutions under God. The government would run the country, make its laws, pay its bills - and the churches (any church allowed) would take care of the culture, the moral issues, etc. They probably were not thinking multiple world religions, but multiple denomations of Christianity. It is fair to think however, that absent of the word Christianity we can take it as to mean any religion.
It does not change their intention of how the country should be however, only ours.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Interesting twisted logic. "There's no proof that the founding fathers wanted a to form a solely Christian country, and they wrote the country's founding documents to say that there should be no state religion, but they were probably thinking it should be a Christian country so let's base policy on what we want to think they were thinking instead of what they actually wrote."
Sometimes I wish the rapture was real so we could get rid of you people once and for all.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pmThey liked prayer, Deists did not, plain fact.
Comment by John Sacks
Prayer means nothing... I have watched many people bow their heads at a prayer when I know for a fact they are not christian... they are simply showing respect for the people around them... not their faith.... You have provided NO proof of your claims... only your opinion... this is EXACTLY what Jefferson, Adams, Paine and mainy others pointed out to the ultra-christians of the day... they wrote about it... others wrote about conversations they over heard from the founding fathers... the CONSTITUTION spells it out... where is YOUR proof?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:30 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Sorry, YOU lose.
This country was FOUNDED on STRONG CHRISTIAN BELIEFS!
Not you weak, sappy, moral relativism that you Libs charish so much today.
It is the Christian values that have preserved our nation.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:31 pmComment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Zup, Mr. P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder how I could load my PC's Control Panel and adjust its settings -- it's a bit "too white."
August 10th, 2007 at 2:32 pmIt is the Christian values that have preserved our nation.
Comment by p
Prove it.
The founding fathers were all about reasoned proof... prove it... if you can.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:33 pmAgain, John Sacks, if you were to provide some evidence that the Founders were christian as opposed to your personal pronouncements, your argument might have a little credibility. Let me help you out: many times, when they were running for office, they made campaign speeches which implied that they had respect for the christian religion. You might try there. But, also be aware that in their personal correspondence, they almost all professed nothing but contempt for organized religion. Remember, they were men of "The Enlightenment." They didn't like the way things had been done in Europe. They valued reason, science and observation. And, they were all well aware of what happened in Massachusettes when organized religion was running things.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:33 pmWhy did you do that?
Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
Oh CT was going to get back to me about some stuff and I just wanted to remine em since it was back around 302 or something like that. 312 might help explain it if you are interested
August 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pmAh, p is as faulty as CT.
Ideally, religious diversity is not an issue because Religion does not enter the picture. I'll grant it that. But you see, p doesn't grasp this little fact. It's the people to which p is such a devote butt-licker that make religion a matter.
I wonder if p can tell me the answer to this little question. If Bill Sali hadn't made a big deal over a Muslim Representative and a Hindu prayer, would we even be talking about this? I doubt it can, as it wants to define 'Religious Diversity' to mean 'KKKhristian Only Club.'
For people like [Mr.] p/Daryll/CT/VV/John Sachs/etc, I have to invent a new term. Christians are people who profess to believe that God had a son named Jesus, and that Jesus came to Earth to preach the new Gospel that teaches tolerance, compassion, living your life in the glory of God even while accepting that others choose not to and tolerating their choice. Then we have KKKristians, who believe that all that New Testament stuff is liberal panzy bullsh!t, and that the unbelievers should die by the sword (or the gun and missile) and poor people are poor because it's their own fault. Christians I can respect and tolerate. KKKristians on the other hand do not even deserve to call Jesus's name. Christians saw Jesus as a grown man, who tolerated unbelievers, who opened his heart and compassion to a prostitute, who lived his life as an example for others to live, and didn't force his creed down other people's throats. KKKristians see Jesus as a little baby that cries whenever Fags and Commies come around.
I'll take the Christians over the KKKristians any day. Hell, I'll take a Muslim over a KKKRistian. What's amusing is that the radical Islamists (the Islamo-Theocrasts (tm) :) ) have alot more in common with KKKristians than the KKKristians wish to admit.
Sali's a KKKristian. So is Goode. And so is our resident MPS afflicted Troll.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:36 pmp. I don't care if you get it or not. I don't. I enjoy reading the more patient posters here who prove the case that religious intolerance is not good for this country. That the founding fathers were careful not to allow religion to be the dominating force in the creation of our govt.
Your words remind me of the spoiled whiney child. Luckily your not mine.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:36 pmI reference Jeremy as why I continue to read and post here. Along with Gerald Gibson and the others that provide evidence.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:38 pmSometimes I wish the rapture was real so we could get rid of you people once and for all.
Comment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
August 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pmGiven that Christians are over 85% of the country and probably growing do to the Latin immigration influence - I don't think we are going anywhere anytime soon.
Oh yeah. PatrioticLiberalChristian is an example of a Christian. Daryll/Mr. P/CT_V3.14.15.92653/etc. is a KKKristian.
I thought that would clarify for the MPS afflicted Troll.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:40 pmIt is the Christian values that have preserved our nation.
Comment by p
Absolutely correct. And no rational person should trade those values for anything. Those values, the motivation from those values aided in creating modern American way of life — the great way of life other nations yearn to have, and that's why they're seeking to destroy it.
America is the world's last great hope, and Muslims are seeking to bring the entire world's score down to zero.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:40 pmJohn Sacks: "Thomas Jefferson dabbled in Deism - and died a Christian."
John have you ever heard of "Jefferson's Bible?"
On his deathbed, Jefferson counted this as one of the three things he was most proud of. What he had done was take the New Testament and remove all of what he called "magic" from it. All that was left was the essential philosophy of Jesus with respect to people, government and morals, something Jefferson respected. Jefferson was not a christian and didn't die a christian.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:41 pmOh CT was going to get back to me about some stuff and I just wanted to remine em since it was back around 302 or something like that. 312 might help explain it if you are interested
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
--------
You guys don't know what Jefferson really thought.
You need to go and read what Jefferson read (Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Cicero, AND the Bible). Then you will see that he uses some of the same language and ideas found in the philosopher's writings and the Bible.
Honestly, most of you Lefties subscribe to a revisionist history of America. I blame the teachers.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:41 pmComment by Jeremy — August 10, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
What a propaganda humper this one is. Really, what a slush-head.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:41 pmGiven that Christians are over 85% of the country and probably growing do to the Latin immigration influence - I don’t think we are going anywhere anytime soon.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
So then why are you so worried about one Muslim Congressman and a Hindu prayer in the Senate?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pmthe founding fathers were careful not to allow religion to be the dominating force in the creation of our govt....
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
-----
Exactly. So they would have been against all of this pagan crap in Congress!!!
I'm glad you agree.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:43 pmComment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Hence the original subject of this thread.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:44 pmAmerica is the world’s last great hope, and Muslims are seeking to bring the entire world’s score down to zero.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
------
Yep. The more the Leftists pander to Radical Islam, the more they are exposed as weak, defeatists, valueless, scum that they are.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:45 pmGiven that Christians are over 85% of the country and probably growing do to the Latin immigration influence - I don’t think we are going anywhere anytime soon.
Comment by John Sacks
You do know that only some christians believe in Rapture right? Rapture was invent in what was it 1870? Back when all the kooks were coming out talking about finding Atlantis and such...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:45 pmYou guys don’t know what Jefferson really thought.
You need to go and read what Jefferson read (Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Cicero, AND the Bible). Then you will see that he uses some of the same language and ideas found in the philosopher’s writings and the Bible.
Honestly, most of you Lefties subscribe to a revisionist history of America. I blame the teachers.
P:
August 10th, 2007 at 2:46 pmThis has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed in the posts you are responding to.
John Sacks: "Given that Christians are over 85% of the country and probably growing do to the Latin immigration influence - I don’t think we are going anywhere anytime soon."
What percentage of Americans regularly go to church today as opposed to, say, the 50's? Sorry John. Organized religion is dying a slow death. Every year, science and observation provide more cognitive dissonance for devoutly religious people, and this process just makes many of them more and more angry and defensive. Personally, I'm not cheering the end of religion as it clearly provides a kind of happiness and support to many people, but it is slowly dying out.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:46 pmAmerica is the world’s last great hope, and Muslims are seeking to bring the entire world’s score down to zero.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
——
Yep. The more the Leftists pander to Radical Islam, the more they are exposed as weak, defeatists, valueless, scum that they are.
Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Are you two morons still posting here? Why? Stop posting!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pmExactly. So they would have been against all of this pagan crap in Congress!!!
I’m glad you agree.
Comment by p
My guess is because the evangelicals are trying to take over... and they have to be shown that will not be allowed.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pmSo then why are you so worried about one Muslim Congressman and a Hindu prayer in the Senate?
Comment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Actually, I believe that the Islamic culture that is growing and using the left and their political correctness as a tool, is not compatible with the culture we have here. The game that is played about ignoring the core elements (that the fundementals do not ignore) in order to let them setup shop here is dangerous.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:48 pmComment by Jeremy — August 10, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
What a propaganda humper this one is. Really, what a slush-head.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
Like I really care what a clinically insane person thinks about me. I might care an iota more if CT_V3.14.1592653 cared, if it would back up its idiotic ad hominem attack with facts. But it is a KKKristian who would be happy to see the Congress a KKKristian Only KKKlub!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:48 pmSeparation of Church and State!
Only a Lefty would think that the above phrase means:
Religious diversity in govt!!
You Libs crack me up!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pmThe game that is played about ignoring the core elements (that the fundementals do not ignore) in order to let them setup shop here is dangerous.
Comment by John Sacks
The Founding Fathers solved the problem along time ago...
It is called Seperation of Church and State... as long as the right does not destroy the Constitution then NO religion will ever be able to harm us...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pmHence the original subject of this thread.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
It's nice when they're defeated by their own flawed logic, isn't it?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pmThis has absolutely nothing to do with the questions posed in the posts you are responding to.
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
I wasn't asked to answer those questions. I am just commenting on your lack of understanding of Jefferson's conception of Justice.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pmOnly a Lefty would think that the above phrase means:
Religious diversity in govt!!
You Libs crack me up!!!
Comment by p
We would prefer NO religion in govt ... thanks...
But since the evangelicals are going nazi we must make sure they KNOW they will not be ALLOWED to take over...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pmWhat percentage of Americans regularly go to church today as opposed to, say, the 50’s?
Apparently a lot more than you believe. The number still stands above 85% (it was over 90% in the 50's) not a huge change. In many dioceses (Catholic) the numbers are growing rapidly - especially where Latins are showing up.,
August 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pmIt’s nice when they’re defeated by their own flawed logic, isn’t it?
Comment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
It sure is!!! Like I said:
Separation of Church and State!
Only a Lefty would think that the above phrase means:
Religious diversity in govt!!
You Libs crack me up!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pmI wasn’t asked to answer those questions. I am just commenting on your lack of understanding of Jefferson’s conception of Justice.
Comment by p
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Jesus-Without-Miracles1dec05.htm
August 10th, 2007 at 2:53 pmApparently a lot more than you believe. The number still stands above 85% (it was over 90% in the 50’s) not a huge change. In many dioceses (Catholic) the numbers are growing rapidly - especially where Latins are showing up.,
Comment by John Sacks
No where NEAR 85% go to church each sunday...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pmI wasn’t asked to answer those questions. I am just commenting on your lack of understanding of Jefferson’s conception of Justice.
Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Please show us all where I discussed anything related to this. In the mean time you buddy CT can't seem to muster an response. Why you wished to seems odd. Nudge, nudge, know what I mean...
August 10th, 2007 at 2:55 pmWe would prefer NO religion in govt … thanks…
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
August 10th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
John Sacks: "Actually, I believe that the Islamic culture that is growing and using the left and their political correctness as a tool, is not compatible with the culture we have here."
I see. So your concern is that people who DON'T support the idea that this is a christian nation WILL support the idea that this is a muslim nation???!!!
Get a hold of yourself, John. That's simply hysterical.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:56 pmOne Nation under God,
Indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
Comment by p
That wasnt added until the 1950s... didnt know that did you?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:56 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Oops..
I read #311, yours was #312.
My bad, dbadass.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:57 pm85%+ are Christians - cultural or practicing (by cultural they do follow the philosophy). Probably around 50% who attend church every Sunday.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pmComment by Jeremy — August 10, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
.....devote butt-licker....KKKhristian.....liberal panzy bullsh!t..... Hell, I’ll take a Muslim over a KKKRistian.
You forgot MMMooslims.
Q:What's Jeremy's 5-day forecast for America?
A: 2 days.
Enjoy your Muslim slumber party, son.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pmThat wasnt added until the 1950s… didnt know that did you?
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
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It was added to combat liberalism...
you know...
after the Liberal NAZIs destroyed Europe!
August 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pmOh, and I just have to do this. Hey, everybody, let's play Jeopardy!
Since CT/Mr. P/VV/Daryll/etc thinks that Muslims are the big threat to the United States, let's go to the big board and pick 'Threats to America' for a thousand.
"This country is the largest Communist country in the world. It enjoys favored trading status with the United States, to which it sells the following items: Wheat paste thickened with rat poison, which it laughs while watching as Americans feed to their animals, which then die horribly and painfully of kidney failure, liver failure, and other symptoms of poisoning. Lead-paint covered toys when it laughs while watching as Americans give them to their children, who then procede to grow up while being poisoned. And Toothpaste enriched with the sweat taste of antifreeze, which Americans happily brush their pearly whites with."
Anybody want to hazard an answer to that question? :-D
August 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pmrefresh
August 10th, 2007 at 3:00 pmPercent of adults who attend religious services at least once a week:
In order of decreasing attendance:
Country % Attendance
August 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pmNigeria 89%
Ireland 84% *
Philippines 68%
N. Ireland 58%
Puerto Rico 52%
South Africa 56%
Poland 55%
Portugal 47% *
Slovakia 47%
Mexico 46%
Italy 45% *
Dominican Republic 44%
Belgium 44%
United States 44%
Turkey 43%
Peru 43%
India 42%
Canada 38% *
Brazil 36%
Netherlands 35%
Venezuela 31%
Uruguay 31%
Austria 30% *
Britain 27% *
Chile 25%
Argentina 25%
Spain 25%
Solvenia 22%
Croatia 22%
Hungary 21% *
France 21% *
Romania 20% *
Switzerland 16%
Australia 16%
Lithuania 16%
South Korea 14%
W. Germany 14%
Czech Republic 14% *
Taiwan 11%
Bulgaria 10% *
Ukraine 10%
Moldova 10%
Georgia 10%
China 9%
Armenia 8%
Serbia 7%
Montenegro 7%
Azerbaijan 6%
Belarus 6%
Latvia 5%
Denmark 5% *
Norway 5%
East Germany 5%
Sweden 4%
Iceland 4%
Finland 4%
Estonia 4%
Japan 3%
Russia 2%
China is a big problem for us no doubt.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pmSince CT/Mr. P/VV/Daryll/etc thinks that Muslims are the big threat to the United States, let’s go to the big board and pick ‘Threats to America’ for a thousand.
I say that Liberals and Islamists are threats.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pmIt was added to combat liberalism…
you know…
after the Liberal NAZIs destroyed Europe!
Comment by p
Please stop... you are starting to make me feel bad for you...
Nazis were ultra conservative christians...
It was added because of the "Godless Communists"
Christ people... THINK... READ... then THINK again...
August 10th, 2007 at 3:02 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Why are you spamming the thread?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:02 pmNigeria???
August 10th, 2007 at 3:03 pmMr p. now you are just being stupid. Republicans were siding with the Nazi's prior to WWII. Even GW's grandpappy was profiteering thru the Nazi's. It was the great democrat FDR that stood up to the Nazi's, the Japaneese and the Italians in shorter time than GW has been able to deal with a few dead enders.
you really don't know much. That's not a question. It's a reflection on your posts.
The original pledge didn't include equality because women weren't considered equal.
Look it up and learn.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pmBTW, muslims go every day and they are not on the list.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pmWhy are you spamming the thread?
Comment by p
Because of all the people reading and not commenting... it is good that they learn how wrong you are... and since you refuse to provide ANY proof of your own... well...
August 10th, 2007 at 3:05 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Hitler was a pagan, Leftist.
Look it up and learn.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pmMr p. now you are just being stupid. Republicans were siding with the Nazi’s prior to WWII. Even GW’s grandpappy was profiteering thru the Nazi’s. It was the great democrat FDR that stood up to the Nazi’s, the Japaneese and the Italians in shorter time than GW has been able to deal with a few dead enders. - spoken like a true follow of the KOS. Give that one a rest will ya.
FDR definately did the right thing in supporting the UK in WWII against the Nazi's - but read his speaches of the time, he was telling the American people that we were not entering that one. Was he a liar?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:07 pmBTW, muslims go every day and they are not on the list.
Comment by John Sacks
The muslim culture has not modernized... but I guess the list is about christianity only.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:07 pmJeremy's a little slow, but tries to look smart. He looks to create doubt, as if there's any.
Jeremy dudette, Muslim's the threat!
What time period are you living in?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:07 pmModernized. hmmm - so they are not compatible with our modern western culture. I agree with that.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pmModernized. hmmm - so they are not compatible with our modern western culture. I agree with that.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Exactly.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pmCT_Version 2???????????
Should I assume you don't have a response? 302 suggested you did.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:09 pmComment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
You don't have a say in any of that. Please take your lefty, America-hating schtick elsewhere. America would be just fine without crazed me-me-me! lefties attempting to distort it's fine vision.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:10 pmActually, I believe that the Islamic culture that is growing and using the left and their political correctness as a tool, is not compatible with the culture we have here. The game that is played about ignoring the core elements (that the fundementals do not ignore) in order to let them setup shop here is dangerous.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Really? Because the members of that Islamic culture would disagree with you. According to the recent Pew survey of Muslim-Americans, 63% of them don't believe there's a conflct between being a devout Muslim and living in modern American society, 59% believe they should adopt at least some American customs, and the overwhelming majority have unfavorable views of al-Qa'ida and suicide bombing.
On the other hand, American Muslims overwhelmingly vote Democratic, believe in bigger government, and believe the government should help the poor. So I have to wonder why conservatives if these aren't the real reasons conservatives are so worried about Muslims "setting up shop" here.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:10 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
To square you away, please go back and read #321.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pmOn the other hand, American Muslims overwhelmingly vote Democratic
Because the Democrats are definately a much less of a threat to World Islamofaciasts. I would venture to say that Osama himself would vote Democrat if given the chance. Heck, if he were in Phili or Chicago, he could vote for Democrat today.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:13 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
To square you away, please go back and read #321.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
What does that have to do with what I asked in 312? Weren't you the one that called me stupid?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pmp. you aren't only wrong but delusional. If you have meds you better start taking them. If you don't, then I'm sure you can find a "doctor".
Hitler leftist? I would really enjoy to see where you got this. He was all for an open govt. differing opinion and open elections. not.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pmModernized. hmmm - so they are not compatible with our modern western culture. I agree with that.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Exactly.
Comment by p
Correct which is why we should leave them alone and mind our own business instead. Watch our own borders and do all we can to help them modernize... there is one sure way to slow that down... make them resist us and our war mongering ways that we have shown them for the last 60 years.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHitler wanted to make a new religion around himself... the germans were christians...
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for
compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but
in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."
[Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance
August 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pmwith the will of the Almighty Creator."
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]
Islamofaciasts.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Thank you for this. You've now proven yourself to be nothing but a talking-point-spouting moron with nothing of value to add to this discussion. You and your friends CT and Mr. P can stop posting now - you've proven your idiocy.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:17 pmWhat are these people who want to kill everyone of us then? Pick a name. Islamofaciast makes a point.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:18 pmWhat are these people who want to kill everyone of us then? Pick a name. Islamofaciast makes a point.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
Yes. It makes the point that you're an idiot. Thanks again!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:19 pmOkay, now you Libs are defending IslamoFascism!!!
You LOSE!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:20 pmCorrect which is why we should leave them alone and mind our own business instead. Watch our own borders and do all we can to help them modernize… there is one sure way to slow that down… make them resist us and our war mongering ways that we have shown them for the last 60 years.
We did - we gave them the oil industry - made their tribes rich - and they used that wealth to take their war against non-muslims worldwide. Didn't really work out the way we intended it to.
As far as warmongering ways - they have been doing nothing but that for 1500 years.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:20 pmYes. It makes the point that you’re an idiot. Thanks again!
Comment by toasterhead
So if in your eye's I'm and idiot then I am to assume that you support the terrorists and hate the US as much as they do?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:21 pmThe entire muslim religion is centered around resistance from invaders... LATER when that religion was MIXED with government is when they BECAME the invaders to their surrounding countries... Its been hundreds of years since they were doing that... America is doing it today. We should set the example and set it in STONE that NO ONE has the right to do this any more. Everyone stay within their own borders... all the criminals bands like Al Qeada should be destroyed... any NATION state that violates that gets what Saddam get in the early 1990s...
August 10th, 2007 at 3:22 pmOkay, now you Libs are defending IslamoFascism!!!
You LOSE!!!
Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Nope. Just fighting fascism in general. Speaking of - why haven't you stopped posting yet?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:23 pmp. you remind me of that kid who would "I know you are but what am I". I learned a long time ago not to argue with a child like a child.
now eat your p mr. p. mind your p's and q's and start treating others like you want to be treated or you'll go directly to bed without any ice cream. Of course we'll turn the night light on just try not to have another wet night mr. p.
You've already lost and don't know it.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:23 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
You've been squared away, sir. You only want to hear what you want to hear, and those aren't the facts. Don't seek to create doubt where there isn't any.
If you knew what's right for our government, you'd advocate eliminating religious dealings within our government. But you show your hypocrisy by making non-christian faiths the exception. You're going to have to explain yourself if you want any shot at restoring your credibility.
Ever hear of Separation of Church and State?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:24 pmThe entire muslim religion is centered around resistance from invaders… LATER when that religion was MIXED with government is when they BECAME the invaders to their surrounding countries… Its been hundreds of years since they were doing that… America is doing it today. We should set the example and set it in STONE that NO ONE has the right to do this any more. Everyone stay within their own borders… all the criminals bands like Al Qeada should be destroyed… any NATION state that violates that gets what Saddam get in the early 1990s
Ok. First empty our streets and send them all back to their homeland. Then give them a bunch of cash to rebuild and modernize their societies, and pull everyone out. since we buy 12% of our oil from the middle east we can cut it off and take more from South America and partner with Russia.
Sounds like a plan.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:24 pmWe did - we gave them the oil industry - made their tribes rich - and they used that wealth to take their war against non-muslims worldwide. Didn’t really work out the way we intended it to.
As far as warmongering ways - they have been doing nothing but that for 1500 years.
Comment by John Sacks
They have been at the whim of the west for hundreds of years... Turkey then Britian and now the USA...
We over threw their elected leaders (Iran) We colonized their lands (Britian and the z--o-i--n-i--s-t--s) we helped train their dictators to torture them into submission (CIA & Egypt) .. we armed both sides of their wars.. (Iraq & Iran)... Hell I dont buy it... why would they?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:25 pmSo if in your eye’s I’m and idiot then I am to assume that you support the terrorists and hate the US as much as they do?
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
You can assume that if you like. It doesn't matter how I respond - you're just going to twist my words to fit your perverted worldview anyhow. Just like you did with Thomas Jefferson and Jesus Christ. I don't need to explain myself to a bigot.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:26 pmWe did overthrow the Irananian government and put the Sha in power and supported him. And it worked. Then, we got a weak President who had no balls and let the Islamists destroy what was becoming a very modern society.
In Chili we did the same thing and look at them - the jewel of South America - thriving economy - and great wine.
There is something said about using force to put in a group that will actually work with the world rather than against it.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:27 pmComment by toasterhead — August 10, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
Typical lefty stalinist, only wants to tell everybody who doesn't tout his line to shut up.
Your entire agenda is being exposed for the entire world to see.
America is not "Thinkprogress.org Progressive." Is is Christian, and we want to retain our good values from demographic-tinkering lefties, or the dirty opinions of a few.
Proceed, lefties, with your pro-Islam viewpoints....
August 10th, 2007 at 3:28 pmThere is something said about using force to put in a group that will actually work with the world rather than against it.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Great! Can we overthrow Bush now?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:29 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
You’ve been squared away, sir. You only want to hear what you want to hear, and those aren’t the facts. Don’t seek to create doubt where there isn’t any.
If you knew what’s right for our government, you’d advocate eliminating religious dealings within our government. But you show your hypocrisy by making non-christian faiths the exception. You’re going to have to explain yourself if you want any shot at restoring your credibility.
Ever hear of Separation of Church and State?
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
So my learned friend who chose to call me stupid . Is this your response to the post in which I have reprinted for your review least you be inadvertently make a fool of yourself.
Okay CT maybe we should take them one at a time what with my stupidity and all…
1) .†The “radical right-wing’s†assertions are rightful and concerned responses, not anything controversial.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Please articulate what exactly you see as these assertions/responses. Lay them out so that you opinion which you wish to state as fact can be examined more closely. Thank you…
Here I am asking that you delineate those ideas/actions of the right which you see as “rightful and concernedâ€
2) This posting is an example. Do you have to play stupid?
You lefties are pure racists. Now STFU.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
How so? You were respectfully asked to articulate your opinion so as to allow it to be examined in an objective manner? Were you disrespected in anyway? Called stupid? Rascist? Or told to STFU?
Here I am asking why such vitriol should follow a request for you to engage in a dialogue when I showed you nothing but courtesy.
3) How are either one or two “stupid or uneducated†which by the way seems redundant.
Comment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
August 10th, 2007 at 3:29 pmOverthrowing the Iranians did NOT work... it made the religious people and the non religious in Iran join together into a revolution to overthrow the dictator and the religious were left holding the power... that did not WORK... pretty dumb.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:31 pmWe did overthrow the Irananian government and put the Sha in power and supported him. And it worked. Then, we got a weak President who had no balls and let the Islamists destroy what was becoming a very modern society.
In Chili we did the same thing and look at them - the jewel of South America - thriving economy - and great wine.
There is something said about using force to put in a group that will actually work with the world rather than against it.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Well this comment cements you as a Nazi, my friend. "It works" - right - 1000s of people tortured and murdered by Pinochet and the SAVAK. Massive blowback in Iran in 1979 for US support for a fascist Shah.
Ever been to Chile? I have - the ordinary people hate you for what you did for Pinochet.
Up yours Adolph
August 10th, 2007 at 3:33 pmWord press suucks
August 10th, 2007 at 3:33 pmOh and CT please excuse a few typos in my last. I think you get what I mean. I'll be back around 3 am eastern if you wish to discuss this further. What I want to hear is consistent conscious rational thought expressed with manners and dignity. I have offered you such. What have you offered to those which are willing to engage you here?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:33 pmp. you remind me of that kid who would “I know you are but what am Iâ€. I learned a long time ago not to argue with a child like a child.
now eat your p mr. p. mind your p’s and q’s and start treating others like you want to be treated or you’ll go directly to bed without any ice cream. Of course we’ll turn the night light on just try not to have another wet night mr. p.
You’ve already lost and don’t know it.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
------
Why are blabbering on about nonsense?
Are you high?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:34 pmYour entire agenda is being exposed for the entire world to see.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Exposed? I think I've been pretty straightforward with my agenda of fighting racism and bigotry. Now stop posting. We don't need bigots like you polluting this site.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:35 pmword press really really sucks
August 10th, 2007 at 3:36 pmSounds like a plan.
Comment by John Sacks
This is America... remember the Statue of Liberty?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pmSounds like a plan.
Comment by John Sacks
as for the rest of your idea... I agree... except we should pump up Americas economy by switching off oil to Pebble Bed Nuclear Reactors and 100% electric motors.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pmUmm... that's not what I wrote...
TP, what gives!?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:37 pmdealing with you mr. p I'm in the dirt at the moment. But you are nothing more than a fart in the wind. You have no substance even though you momentarily disturb me. Luckily I don't think of you after responding.
Now show me where Hitler was a leftist. Or lie about something else. It makes no matter to me little fart.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:39 pmGods, TP is getting on my nerves...
BUT I triumph again!
Mr. P loses $1000, unfortunately. John Sachs came close. The correct answer was:
“Who is China?â€
Now, for a lesson for CT. He made a mistake and took little soundbytes out of my post. Let me show this fool how it’s done…
You don’t have a say in any of that. Please take your lefty, America-hating schtick elsewhere. America would be just fine without crazed me-me-me! lefties attempting to distort it’s fine vision.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Not only does CT have an obsession with lefties, he’s also is stuck in the 60’s, with his inane ‘American-hating schtick’ schtick. He also projects, trying to foist off the ‘me! ME! ME!!!’ marker of neoconservatism (I’m better than everyone else, America is Great and can do no wrong, and everyone exists to service us) and fundamentalist religions (I’m right, you’re wrong, I’m going to heaven, you’re going to hell, I can do no wrong, you can do no right, and do as I say, not as I do, cause I’m better ‘n’ you) onto lefties.
Too bad reality has a liberal bias, as some say around here. ;)
(Typed in Word, Pasted into Wordpress. Suck on that, TP!)
August 10th, 2007 at 3:41 pmP why must you answer for CT and again with the same vitriol. Show us where I have treated you with anything less than courtesy. I think your "ideas" might be taken more seriously if you stopped with the irrational attacks and multiple personalities
August 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pmComment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Show you?
Ok.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pmHere.
Ooops, forgot one detail. CT also doesn't know the difference between 'its', the possessive third person neutral singular pronoun, and 'it's', a conjunction of 'it' and 'is'. :)
August 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pmRefresh!!!
Death to IslamoStalinism!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pm#375 John Sacks
Given that Christians are over 85% of the country and probably growing do to the Latin immigration influence - I don’t think we are going anywhere anytime soon.
Actually, in the U.S., Islam is growing much faster than Christian religions as a whole. In fact, all non-Christian religions, as a whole, are growing faster than Christian ones. Even the category of "No Religion/Atheist/Agnostic" is growing faster than Christian religions.
Bummer, eh?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pmWow.
CT, Mr.Pee, Ringo, Daryll, John Sacks, Sam et al. (more than likely the same person) has offered absolutely nothing to this thread, but to hijack it with lame non factual comments, as well as unsubstantiated character attacks more than likely learned from Rush.
Way to go TP! Way to ruin an informative thread by allowing anyone to post their nonsense, all the time, while the regulars are routinely censored..
No wonder they are leaving!
Au Revoir!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pmOoops, forgot one detail....
Comment by Jeremy — August 10, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
----
That's ok. No one cared what you wrote anyway.
(do unto others, right hellavuhandjob?)
:D
August 10th, 2007 at 3:44 pmUp yours Adolph
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 10, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
You can always tell when a lefty get's frustrated - the always resort to the Nazi name calling because of their lack of anything else to day. Typical.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
CHIMPEACH!!! CHIMPEACH!!! CHIMPEACH!!!!
OOooO... OOoOo... Oooo...
AAAAAhhahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHahHAaAaAaAaAAHhHHhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:45 pm#377 CnT_Version 2
America is the world’s last great hope...
Well, at least it was until Bush came along. I think most of the world has given up on us at this point.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by CT_Lover's John Sack — August 10, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
I'm going to fight the good fight until AmericaBlog gets its version 2.0 up and running, then I'll head there and limit my viewing to that, DailyKOS, and Crooks and Liars. Even with a posting system similar to this one, Americablog isn't overloaded with trolls, mainly because the likes of CT/Mr. P/Ringo/Daryll/John Sachs/Conseratron/ect. aren't tolerated there. Thank God for moderators!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:46 pmYou can always tell when a lefty get’s frustrated - the always resort to the Nazi name calling because of their lack of anything else to day. Typical.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
--------------
Yup. The next sign is when they post using your name.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:46 pmmr.p, Hitler is a leftist how?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:46 pmmr. p. Bush is a conservative how?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:47 pmYou can always tell when a lefty get’s frustrated - the always resort to the Nazi name calling because of their lack of anything else to day. Typical.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Well, you bigots prove time and time again that you won't listen to facts or reason, so it's the only option you leave us with. Now stop posting, bigot.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pmActually, in the U.S., Islam is growing much faster than Christian religions as a whole. In fact, all non-Christian religions, as a whole, are growing faster than Christian ones. Even the category of “No Religion/Atheist/Agnostic†is growing faster than Christian religions.
Given that Christianity makes up 85% of the country and has been following due to immigration and the fact that Islam is such a low percentage of the population now (0.5% I believe) - then what you say is true - spin is your tool in this argument.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pmhellinabucket, you are not a traitor how?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pmhellinabucket, you are not an idiot how?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:49 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
"EXAMINE" what precisely, lefty?
Can you either put up or shut up? I mean, I'm already devoting my own personal time to a bigot.
Really, what the hell are you talking about? My responses are perfectly sufficient. Get off your ass, already.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:49 pm#471
CT, Mr.Pee, Ringo, Daryll, John Sacks, Sam et al. (more than likely the same person)
Poor little troll. Nobody wants to play with him. He has to surround himself with imaginary playmates.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:49 pmWell, you bigots prove time and time again that you won’t listen to facts or reason, so it’s the only option you leave us with. Now stop posting, bigot.
Facts or reason? You mean like the blanket statements that the founders were all Deists? Or that any conservative is a Nazi? etc. etc.? You guys are the same everywhere on the Internet.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:50 pmSeparation of Church and State!
Only a Lefty would think that the above phrase means:
Religious diversity in govt!!
You Libs crack me up!!!
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
You can always tell when a troll is frustrated - they always resort to liberal name calling because of their lack of anything else to say. Typical.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:51 pmSeparation of Church and State!
Nice thing about this board is that anyone can be anyone - that was a different John Sacks.
Now that you bring up Separation of Church and State - can anyone point to the Constitution where it actually says this?
August 10th, 2007 at 3:53 pmPoor little troll. Nobody wants to play with him. He has to surround himself with imaginary playmates.
Comment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Sacks had me fooled for a while - I thought he was capable of making some reasoned arguments. But then he resorted to the usual Bill O'Reilly "OH NOES CULTURE WARS" crap and I just tuned out. There's no point arguing with closed-minded bigots.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:54 pmComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
OOooO… OOoOo… Oooo…
AAAAAhhahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHahHAaAaAaAaAAHhHHhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:55 pm#477
You can always tell when a lefty get’s frustrated - the always resort to the Nazi name calling because of their lack of anything else to day. Typical.
If the 'brains' of the whole Bush crime syndicate, Karl Rove, weren't running plays directly from Hitler's playbook, it wouldn't be so easy to make the comparisons.
Tell him to mix it up once in a while, maybe throw in a little more Ferdinand Marcos or some Pinochet or Idi Amin for variety.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:55 pmReally, what the hell are you talking about? My responses are perfectly sufficient. Get off your ass, already.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
You lose. Given the chance to show yourself as someone worthy of discussion despite difference of opinion you have ended up looking nonsensical at best and most people follow most of the comments so trying to deflect your inability to explain your angry irrational posts won't help.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:55 pmComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
OooOooO… OOOoOOoOo… OOOoOooo…
AAAAAhhahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHahHAaAaAaAaAAHhHHhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAhhAAAAAhhahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pmSeparation of Church and State!
Only a Lefty would think that the above phrase means:
Religious diversity in govt!!
You Libs crack me up!!!
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
You can always tell when a troll is frustrated - they always resort to liberal name calling because of their lack of anything else to say. Typical.
Comment by CT_Lover's John Sack — August 10, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Ya, really. I think John Sachs slipped into p’s character there. I mean, isn’t it funny how hard the troll has keeping its character straight? Makes me laugh.
Doubly so since it doesn’t get that Separation of Church and State in its ideal form is no religious practices in the congress, which means instead of swearing your oath on a bible, you have to swear it on, say, the United States Constitution. I could go for that. But the troll would likely scream ‘violation of religious freedom!’ when the Christian prayer session happened and ‘separation of church and state!’ when it’s a Muslim prayer.
Double standards. Gotta love ‘em.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pmFacts or reason? You mean like the blanket statements that the founders were all Deists? Or that any conservative is a Nazi? etc. etc.? You guys are the same everywhere on the Internet.
Comment by John Sacks
For the Deists evidence was provided... you refuse to provide any of your own.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pmSacks had me fooled for a while - I thought he was capable of making some reasoned arguments. But then he resorted to the usual Bill O’Reilly “OH NOES CULTURE WARS†crap and I just tuned out. There’s no point arguing with closed-minded bigots.
Anyone who is against political correctness, who is for continuing a culture that has made and kept this country great - is a biggot or a racist to a liberal. That is as shallow as it get's in any debate.
For example, I have seen this time and time again in the current debate for closing the boarders and deporting illegals. Any outspoken American citizen that sides with rule of law, closing the boarders and forcing illegals out of the country - is branded a racist by the left wing pro-Latino groups. That is bullshit.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:57 pmCT...
WHHhhEeEn A LeftYYYY SAyySs yoouu Lose, thAttt iSs GoooDddddD
BbeeCaAaauussseee Lleeeftiesss tRrryy tooo LOosse!!!!
OOOooo.... ooOoOO... oOOO...
AaaaaHAaaAAhh!!!!!!!! AaAAAAAAAAAAAaaAAaAAaH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:58 pm#490
OOooO… OOoOo… Oooo…
AAAAAhhahAHAH!!!! AHAhahAHhHAhhAhAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHahHAaAaAaAaAAHhHHhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, that's cool! It's just like Pavlov's dog. I can make the troll cut and paste the same gibberish every time just by posting.
Let's see if he does it again.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:58 pmIf the ‘brains’ of the whole Bush crime syndicate, Karl Rove, weren’t running plays directly from Hitler’s playbook, it wouldn’t be so easy to make the comparisons. - making my point. There is nothing truthfull in this statement.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:58 pmmr. p. you made the statement that Hitler was a leftist. I'm questioning that. Either you can prove this, or you can continue to show what a complete pissant you are.
the choice is yours.
The bonus question was if you think Bush is a conservative.
The first question is fully justified. The second is just for fun.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:58 pmComment by chimpeach — August 10, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
OOOOooo…. ooOoOoO… oOooOoOO…
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhh!!!!!!!! AaAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:59 pmComment by Zooey — August 10, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
i thought this thread would get you out of hiding...
heh...
...
for john sacks:
Our Godless Constitution
Brooke Allen
It is hard to believe that George Bush has ever read the works of George Orwell, but he seems, somehow, to have grasped a few Orwellian precepts. The lesson the President has learned best--and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him--is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration's current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.
Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God. The omission was too obvious to have been anything but deliberate, in spite of Alexander Hamilton's flippant responses when asked about it: According to one account, he said that the new nation was not in need of "foreign aid"; according to another, he simply said "we forgot." But as Hamilton's biographer Ron Chernow points out, Hamilton never forgot anything important.
In the eighty-five essays that make up The Federalist, God is mentioned only twice (both times by Madison, who uses the word, as Gore Vidal has remarked, in the "only Heaven knows" sense). In the Declaration of Independence, He gets two brief nods: a reference to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God," and the famous line about men being "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." More blatant official references to a deity date from long after the founding period: "In God We Trust" did not appear on our coinage until the Civil War, and "under God" was introduced into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954...
August 10th, 2007 at 3:59 pm[...]
read the rest: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen
.
#499 John Sacks
making my point. There is nothing truthfull in this statement.
--in the Bizarro World. Here on our planet, it's fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:00 pmAnyone who is against political correctness, who is for continuing a culture that has made and kept this country great - is a biggot or a racist to a liberal. That is as shallow as it get’s in any debate.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Waaaaaahhh! The LEFTIES are discriminating against the INTOLERANT! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhh!
August 10th, 2007 at 4:00 pmDoubly so since it doesn’t get that Separation of Church and State in its ideal form is no religious practices in the congress, which means instead of swearing your oath on a bible, you have to swear it on, say, the United States Constitution. I could go for that. But the troll would likely scream ‘violation of religious freedom!’ when the Christian prayer session happened and ‘separation of church and state!’ when it’s a Muslim prayer.
Actually there are two parts to the church issue in the Constitution - the establishment clause and the "Freedom of Expression" clause. The establishment clause basically means that there will be no "Church of the United States" like the Church of England. The Freedom of Expression clause means that anyone can practice any faith without oppression from the government.
None of this says anything about praying in Congress, putting the 10 Commandments on the walls of the Supreme Court (which they are there), or anything else about religion. Nothing states that a school cannot have a Christmas padgent, or a county court house cannot have a 10 Commandments display, none of this is in the Constitution.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:01 pm#501 sURrEnDEr MonKEy
OOOOooo…. ooOoOoO… oOooOoOO…
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhh!!!!!!!! AaAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I'll bet he's drooling buckets of slobber all over himself, too.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:02 pmThat the constitution is a “secular document†is a description with which I agree. That the constitution is a document devoid of the influence of Christianity is a statement with which I disagree.
The constitution, and its first amendment, was written at a time when the predominant religious view was, and was assumed to always be, Christianity.
The writings of the founders and of those close to the founding indicate that the first amendment’s purpose was to prevent any “Christian sect†from dominating the government. This is what Jefferson is making clear in his letter to the Danbury Baptists when he use the phrase: “…wall of separation.â€
Jefferson’s phrase in this letter is not a suggestion that any religion is as good or desirable as any other religion, neither is the first amendment a suggestion that any religion is as good as any other religion. (For those of “non-belief†I believe the Supreme Court has declared atheism – the belief that there is no God – a religion.)
As best as I can tell the modern view of this amendment is nothing like the original view of this amendment.
The constitution also notes that Sundays – the Christian day of worship – is not to be considered a business day.
Further, the document uses the date as “…the year of our Lord.†I have to assume that A..D. was available to them.
I believe the following questions should always be asked when considering the influences that brought about the USA.
Would there be a United States without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
Without the influence of this belief, what is going to keep the united in United States of America?
Will there continue to be a USA without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
I don’t believe the founders were trying to create a Christian nation. I believe they were creating a government for a Christian people.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:03 pmp
August 10th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWithout the influence of this belief, what is going to keep the united in United States of America?
Obviously as God has been removed from the public discourse we have become less united.
Will there continue to be a USA without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
No.
I don’t believe the founders were trying to create a Christian nation. I believe they were creating a government for a Christian people.
This is a true statement.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:06 pmFor the Deists evidence was provided… you refuse to provide any of your own.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 3:56 pm
That's their time-honored tactic. They don't provide evidence to back up their claims, but refuse to acknowledge evidence that refutes their claims. It's the same logic that lets them believe in Intelligent Design or the climate change deniers.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:06 pmJohn Sachs. Let me clear something up for you. Not all liberals wish to see unfettered access to these United States by any Tom, Dick or Harry (or Juan, Filipe, and Guapo) who can run across the Mexican desert. I’m a left-leaning moderate who absolutely does not want illegals of any kind here, and I also want to see legal immigration restricted to those who can improve the US’s economic standing and global standing in Science, Math, Engineering, Technology and even in the Liberal Arts. Diluting our country with illegals who are too lazy to learn the dominant language, who have no skills to offer our society, and who are here to leech off our public assistanceship programs burns me up. Every Hispanic family I see in the Denver Projects (which there are a lot of in the projects) makes me want to go to each and every one of them and say, “Green Card or US Birth Certificate now, or I’m calling the cops.â€
However, I’m also for protectionism. I’m sick of the excuse that we need to compete with foreign manufacturers by screwing over our workers as much as China screws over theirs. That puts me squarely in the Left on economic issues, and of course, being pro-civil rights, anti-authoritarianism, and anti-government in my bedroom, I’m much more socially liberal than socially conservative. I might not be totally socially liberal as I don’t want government telling me what’s best for me, but I’ll stand seatbelt laws and required insurance to drive laws more than I’ll stand some NSA agent throwing a flag in my bedroom when I’m getting intimate with my wife because she happens to look very good in black and he thinks sex should be done in missionary position with the lights out and only to have children.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:07 pmComment by dbadass — August 10, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
No, no loss. You have refused to argue on the merits. The burden of proof is in your hands.
And really, does claming "you lose" like a screaming child really mean anything? Run along, now.
Again, don't attempt to create doubt where none exists.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:08 pmComment by John Sacks
Your opinions mean squat... provide evidence.. remember.. THE ENLIGHTMENT... PROVE your case or else you look stupid.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:09 pmI read a lot of books and have read a lot of books on the subject - don't really believe in the cut and paste debate tactics of the Internet. That said, I will break this with a block from the Wiki for Deism (any of you can go there)
Some contemporary Deists believe (with the classical Deists) that God has created the universe perfectly, so no amount of supplication, request, or begging can change the fundamental nature of the universe.
As I said earlier - Deists don't pray - the Founding fathers did and to this date the tradition of opening and closing prayers are still with the Congress. Read any book on the subject - this is just a plain fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:10 pmYour opinions mean squat… provide evidence.. remember.. THE ENLIGHTMENT… PROVE your case or else you look stupid.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
He won't - don't worry. His stupidity is secure.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:11 pmthanks for the link katy.
Good reading.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:12 pmAs I said earlier - Deists don’t pray - the Founding fathers did and to this date the tradition of opening and closing prayers are still with the Congress. Read any book on the subject - this is just a plain fact.
Comment by John Sacks
No one said there were no christians... no one said that they were not very vocal and at times violent... that is why we point out writings by the Founding Fathers where they explain to the christians of that day why they cannot have an official state religion... They didnt tell the christians to get our of America .. they tried to accomidate them because there was so many of them and because the purpose of the U.S. Constitution was to create a land for all people and all religions.
Bowing your head while others pray PROVES NOTHING.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:13 pmYou try to ask 'dbadass' for a further inquiry to his official-sounding request, and he doesn't reply, only trying to claim the moral higher-ground.
I ask again, EXAMINE WHAT? Are you working in a lab? Are you an IRS agent?
This idiot puts out some cheap-sounding responses to look smart, only so he won't have to prove anything substantial.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pmMr. Sacks, where does the constitution say anything about religion? Where? you lump all founding fathers into a group that "pray" but there is no mention of prayer in our constitution. That's a plain fact.
Mr. p, still waiting on the Leftist Hitler theory.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pmHe won’t - don’t worry. His stupidity is secure.
You are hopefully able enough to go out and actually read what Deism is - not how it has been used by lefty bloggers to rewrite history. They don't pray - check it out for yourself.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:15 pmMr. p, still waiting on the Leftist Hitler theory.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Hitler = pagan = leftist.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:19 pmCompletely false… it is well known by those that go to the library or bother to use Google that the founding fathers were mostly deists
Comment by Gerald Gibson — August 10, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
My comments are targetted at this where the discussion began. The debate was whether or not the founding fathers were Christian - not about the Constitution which mentions nothing about religion other than the establishment and "freedom of expression" clauses.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:19 pmYou are hopefully able enough to go out and actually read what Deism is - not how it has been used by lefty bloggers to rewrite history. They don’t pray - check it out for yourself.
Comment by John Sacks — August 10, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
My dog does not pray. I have never seen him pray. Not once. Therefore, he believes that God created the universe perfectly. My dog is obviously a Deist.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:20 pmBTW, this Gerald Gibson is a typical dope - based on this comment alone.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI just realized - my TEAPOT is a Deist! My teapot never prays! It stands to reason that it believes that the fundamental nature of the universe is unchangeable by divine intervention!!
How will I ever make tea again knowing that my TEAPOT is DEIST??
August 10th, 2007 at 4:23 pm“Pro-Muslim domination in the U.S., endorsed by the left.
While you lefties claim to rail against Nazis, you sure are good at employing many of their tactics to scapegoat a current generation.
Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 10:20 amâ€
Right on the money. Liberals preach diversity, but the diversity is only acceptable if it is in total agreement with them.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 10, 2007 @ 10:55 am
----
Yep. The libs got it from Hitler.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:23 pmAlso,
Hitler (brown hair, brown eyes, part Jewish) = self-hating = leftist
August 10th, 2007 at 4:29 pmYou guys got in line for a second helping of stupid soup today.
mr. p = ignorant.
CT and Bigfoot, you are forgetting the initial reason for this thread. It's the religious intolerance of Mr. Sali. Not any Liberal or lefty.
your desire to repeat a lie is very telling. Hitler did have people that understood this. Maybe mr. p. can enlighten you on that.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:30 pmyour desire to repeat a lie is very telling. Hitler did have people that understood this. Maybe mr. p. can enlighten you on that.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
A bigoted conservative troll - repeating a lie? What a surprise!
August 10th, 2007 at 4:33 pmBTW, this Gerald Gibson is a typical dope - based on this comment alone.
Comment by John Sacks
Considering I provide evidence of the words of the Founding Fathers themselves and you only provide your opinion well..
Not to mention others have posted what rightwing christians of the day thought of the Founding Fathers... which was that they were not christians...
So the Founding Fathers say they were not christians... the christians of the day say they were not christians... and we are supposed to believe YOU instead why?
August 10th, 2007 at 4:33 pmmr. p is the one that follows the fool. A sad miserable wretch. Soon to be losing any guidance whatsoever. At least theres Pat Robertson.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:34 pmmr. p. Christ was all Jewish. Was he a leftist?
August 10th, 2007 at 4:34 pmmr. p is the one that follows the fool. A sad miserable wretch. Soon to be losing any guidance whatsoever. At least theres Pat Robertson.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 10, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
-------------
Well, now you have resorted to personal attacks.
Typical, for a lefty who has been proved wrong!