Kristol: Surge deserves ‘another six months.’
By on Aug 10th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Kristol: Surge deserves ‘another six months.’
On Wednesday, the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol discussed his recent trip to Iraq on right-wing radio host Hugh Hewitt’s talk show, where he said Bush’s strategy “certainly deserves another six months to play out.”
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If the alternative is leaving Iraq to all out genocidal civil war and Islamic theocracy, maybe another six months isn’t a bad idea.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:05 pmUm, no. The whole thing has gone on too long already.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pmQuit it with covering this moron’s inane commentary, please!
Kristol is the Kato Kaelin of GDumbya’s dirty little war in Iraq.
The only thing that he has to say which will hold any interest for me will be a summary of his compelled testimony in GDumbya’s and Darth Cheney’s trials for war crimes.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pmPaul,
Do you really care if the Iraqis do what you think will happen?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pmSomebody’s gonna get a medal!
The Croix de Poulet-Mohet!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:07 pmWith most of the dopes on vacation from DC for a month, Billy will be working overtime carrying the water.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:08 pmof course the cheerleader would say this. Maybe the oil deal will be more favorable to Bush in 6 months.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:08 pmjust as long as you fight on the front lines Kristol… anyone think thats gonna happen?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:08 pmI believe it does deserve another 6 months. Actually i think we should stay there as long as it takes to get the job done. If we leave now everything would be screwed up and it would lead to mass genocide. You libs need to look beyond your narrow perspective and take a look at the bigger picture.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:09 pm“I am not a uncritical cheerleader”
sounds similar too
“I am not a crook.” - and we all know how that turned out!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pmDo you really care if the Iraqis do what you think will happen?
Comment by drew_ill — August 10, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
This is the Right’s new selling point.
First it was “WMDs.”
Then it was “exporting democracy”.
Next it became “Fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”.
And now, it’s “We must stop this terrible genocide”.
It’s becoming a menu in a Chinese restaurant… one from column A, one from column B…
Bring on the Freedom Fries!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pm#7 the oil deal is the one thing the Iraqis are united on. They’ve gotten wise to Dumbyas intentions there and they aren’t budging. 6 months or 6 years won’t matter, they aren’t going to sign the control of those resources over to American oil companies.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pmYeah this war needs another FU (Freidman Unit) to determine that its still an inescapable catastrophe.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pmIf we leave now everything would be screwed up and it would lead to mass genocide.
Comment by gitMORules — August 10, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
Hate to say I told you so, BUT…
Let the Freedom Fries ring!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:11 pm#9 - you need to post your personal info here so we can make sure the enlistment procedure goes smoothly….. how does that sound? btw, what is the job the troops are supposed to be doing moron?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pm…and then another six months…and then another six months…and then another six months…
That should be enough. That would take us past Inauguration Day, 2009.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pmKristol gives another FU to America by asking for another F.U.
Who here is surprised. Anyone? Bueller?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pmKristol deserves to be waterboarded for 6 months. Cowardly chickenhawk!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:15 pmWhy didn’t we just agree to buy oil from Saddam and threaten to anilhilate him if he stepped out of bounds. We boke it (Iraq) and now we own it! The argument that i fwe stay there it keeps terrorist from coming here is stupid and baseless. I mean do youthink terrorist are as stupid as our neocon leadership. I mean fight in Bagdad against the US army, or come to LA and blow up somthing, hmm lets see…do we think the terrorist are THAT stupid. They havent attacked us because we are more vigilant and they know we will retaliate quickly. The fighting in Iraq is a godsend (allahsend?) to them. I love the GOP, they love the Iraqi people so they bomb the crap out of them get rid of Saddam and mess up that entire country. Thanks for helping the average Iraqi. arrrgggg!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:15 pm“A Freidman, a Freidman, there’s going to be a Freidman! And then we will have the Oral S*x”
August 10th, 2007 at 12:16 pmTtT-*snicker*
August 10th, 2007 at 12:17 pmI believe it does deserve another 6 months. Actually i think we should stay there as long as it takes to get the job done. If we leave now everything would be screwed up and it would lead to mass genocide. You libs need to look beyond your narrow perspective and take a look at the bigger picture.
Comment by gitMORules — August 10, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
It’s too bad the war-hawk neo-cons in power were un-able to “look at the bigger picture” before invading and creating this mess.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:19 pmIt’s becoming a menu in a Chinese restaurant… one from column A, one from column B…
Well, the good news is, while we’re deciding what’s on the menu, we have avoided more domestic terror attacks and actually addressed the ideology of Islamic jihad. This war is/was coming for a long time. The war was declared on the west. Better to fight it now, in the middle east, than to wait for Islamic nuclear proliferation and fighting on western soil. If you think jihadists will just go away if we placate them, you’re naive. Nobody likes war, but sometimes, it’s better than the alternative. Please wake up before western liberty becomes more difficult to defend.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:20 pmActually i think we should stay there as long as it takes to get the job done.
gitMORules
Shine a light on this for us: Exactly what is the ‘job’ you write about? How will we know when it is ‘done’. Who is going to tell us - and describe to us what ‘victory’ will look like. At least us dumb libs will be able to lookout for ‘victory’ if you will share this vision with us. Thats your plan? Until the job is done…For a moment there I thought all was lost - but you have really given me something to look forward to: Victory! Yeah, thats the ticket.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:21 pmI don’t buy any of the Bush’s arguments anymore.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:22 pmpaul-from the jihad or the current administration that’s raping the Constitution?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:22 pmWTF is so magical about SIX months? Why not 5? Or 7? Or 9? What the hell is the significance of SIX as some sort of barometer?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:22 pmCASUALTIES STARTING AUGUST 1st
Wednesday: 6 GIs, 1 Brit, 178 Iraqis Killed; 188 Iraqis Wounded
Thursday: 3 GIs, 116 Iraqis Killed; 76 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 3 GIs, 22 Iraqis Killed; 13 Iraqis Wounded
Saturday: 1 Marine, 38 Iraqis Killed; 26 Iraqis Wounded
Sunday: 4 GIs, 116 Iraqis Killed; 49 Iraqis Wounded
Monday: 8 GIs, 123 Iraqis Killed; 131 Iraqis Wounded
Tuesday: 3 GIs, 1 Briton, 63 Iraqis Killed; 50 Iraqis Wounded
Wednesday: 93 Iraqis, 1 Briton Killed; 63 Iraqis Wounded
Thursday: 3 GIs, 2 Britons, 46 Iraqis Killed; 21 Iraqis Wounded
At this death rate do you think The America military family deserve another 700 deaths …………..NO
August 10th, 2007 at 12:23 pm#27 - 6 is an easy number to precondition the sheeple to…. history has shown this fact.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pmVictory! Yeah, thats the ticket.
Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
And Freedom Fries! All the Freedom Fries a True Patriot can eat!
I think gitMORules just earned himself a medal!
One pipin’ hot Croix de Poulet-Mohet comin’ up!!! Wear it proudly!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pm“WTF is so magical about SIX months?”
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pm.
First 6 ,then six ,another six
666
If the alternative is leaving Iraq to all out genocidal civil war and Islamic theocracy, maybe another six months isn’t a bad idea.
Comment by paul
Paul, and if they want Islamic Theocracy? Iraqis voted for you to have a banana republic democracy?
Stop pissing on people, racist.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pmJust give me another Friedman, baby… please?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:25 pmdidn’t TP JUST do a post on the administration cheerleaders asking for “just 6 more months” for the past 4 years?…is 6 months the length of the USA collective memory? the time it takes us to digest information and then forget it, only to be fed the exact same lies 6months later?
August 10th, 2007 at 12:26 pmand in six more months, he’ll ask for another 6 months, and another 3, and another 6 - and on and on and on.
Excuse after excuse.
This war is disastrous, immoral, and unconstitutional - and has been since the day it started.
More killing and more destruction won’t change that. We have to leave eventually and in my opinion, we might as well do it now.
Not next year and not next month. Today, not tomorrow. now.
Some reading:
“The Consequences of Staying in Iraq”
August 10th, 2007 at 12:27 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/ the_consequences_of_staying_in_iraq
Why doesn’t anyone in the Bush admin. have the balls to say that a draft is needed. Or, taxes need to be increased to pay for this. Or, we don’t know how long we’ll be there but we will now be fiscally responsible toward the expenditures in Iraq.
The rationale for going in is one big argument. The way it’s been handled is quite different and this administration fails on so many fronts. Any republican thinking of life after 2008 would do their party good to shine a spotlight on the miserable failure Bush has been in conducting this conflict.
The republican party is going to be a shell of itself if it doesn’t wake up soon.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pmStop pissing on people, racist.
Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
Morning, Juan. Little careful, please? So far we’re being fairly civil here this am. Understand your point, and agree. A little more articulation is called for. It reads better.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pmIf you think jihadists will just go away if we placate them, you’re naive. Nobody likes war, but sometimes, it’s better than the alternative. Please wake up before western liberty becomes more difficult to defend.
Comment by paul —
Please read a book. They want us off their land and out of their countries. They don’t want to follow us home to fight us in Cinncinatti. They want us out of their countries and they want us to stop meddling in their affairs - that means their oil. Its really very simple - I figured even a simpleton would grasp this. If your news comes from Tony Snow and Faux news, you will never progress past grade school jingo rhetoric. All you got is the saber to rattle. Well, stand up for what you believe, or are you a coward? I presume you are packing to fight the furriners, right? Oh your not? Well, I guess that makes you a hypocrit chickenhawk now doesn’t it? Folks, we have found another GOP’er that wants to send YOUR kids to die for his ego. Sorta like the rest of the right side. So sad.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pmSend the extra 6 month bill to the Weekly Blandard!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:31 pmthe time it takes us to digest information and then forget it, only to be fed the exact same lies 6months later?
Comment by konflikt
The thing is nobody cares. Yeah, well, now and then some poor kid is blown up and everybody goes…thats so terrible. Unless you are a direct relative of the soldier killed, then it strucks you.
This is no war at all. Your troops are in a war zone, but your country is not at war. There are no enemy at the gates, there are no tanks blasting Central Park, nobody had to crawl out from gunfire in the front lines. The Muslim threat is as laughable as the Commie threat and it is as laughable as the Nazi threat (for US, that is, no Europe). You have had no wars in your soil since when you fought among yourselves. Thats why, although you have lost some wars, your country doesnt suffer directly. It is not like the Vietnam war destroyed your whole infrastructure as it happened in Vietnam.
This is a joke, a the world looks at you in awe at the way you are so easily driven to war by the most absurd reasons. This is a million civilians killed joke.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:34 pmI don’t buy any of the Bush’s arguments anymore-comment by hellinabucket
August 10th, 2007 at 12:35 pmI never bought ANY of their claims at all from the day they took office.
why is TP eating my comments… it makes me sad
August 10th, 2007 at 12:36 pm“Yeah this war needs another FU (Freidman Unit) to determine that its still an inescapable catastrophe.”
I really do wish that people would call what is going on in Iraq “war”. It is not a war, it is an occupation. And there is no way an occupation can be won short of complete subjugation of the people who live in the country. Is that what you trolls want?
The only people who can solve the problem that is Iraq are the people who live in Iraq. It is time that we get out of their way and let them get on with unifying and rebuilding their country.
You gotta love those talking points. This new one that there is going to be genocide in Iraq if we leave is laughable. But, they have nothing else to get people all lathered up about, so this is all they have now.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:36 pmi now think this “six more months” thing is a repetitive statement meant only to annoy the left, not unlike bush referring to the “democrat party.” kristol can keep us looking like hyperbolic hippies by stoking our emotional responses, while he continues to imitate supercool - while what he says is supercrazy.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:36 pm“Kristol: Stooge deserves a size six in his ass.”
August 10th, 2007 at 12:36 pmWe need 6 more months for at least the next 6 more years, is what Kristol meant to say.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:37 pmTRoS, anyone thinking that Iraqis couldnt solve their own problems is a racist. NO more no less.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:37 pmAnd then another 6 months, then another 6 months and another and another… Wake up!!! ANOTHER 6 months won’t turn this failure of an administration into a success.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:40 pmBill Kristol and the Stink of Fear
Pro-war skunk emits clouds of obfuscation
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11404
August 10th, 2007 at 12:42 pmI understand you don’t like the war. And that you think Bush made a mistake going in. And the war has been mismanaged. And the 3000+ soldiers have died in vain. I understand your arguments. I don’t agree, but I understand.
But most seem to believe that if we leave Iraq, there will be an all out civil war followed by Islamic theocracy. Islamic theocracy, that dispite your retoric makes fundamentalist Christians look progressive and tolerant by comparasion.
Do you not believe that is the fate of the Iraqi people? Do you not care? Is it their problem? Is Islamic theocracy okay for the Iraqis, although you would never stand for it? Or do you just care not to think about the unintended consequence of demanding surrender and retreat from Iraq, because it would satisfy your partisan sensibilities?
Stop arguing against the war (we’re already there) and start arguing for the pullout. Explain to us how leaving will make the situation better. If you can’t satisfy those that fear the consequences of the pullout, aren’t you just substituting one ill-planned initiative (as you would argue) for another. Be better and more thoughtful than the conservatives you lament. If you truly are more reasonable, your partisanship won’t cloud your judgement.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:43 pm#
TRoS, anyone thinking that Iraqis couldnt solve their own problems is a racist. NO more no less.
Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
I agree Juan. Last few days the vitriol here has been off the charts. These threads are so much easier to read and it’s easier to see what poeple are trying to say if we can keep away from the extreme obscenities and name-calling.
I don’t mean to criticize your intent. I agree w/ you. Right now people are being fairly articulate here and strangely enough, it does matter.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:45 pmTP..Back to their old way’s of deleting some and allowing other’s…No suprise here…2 thread’s of crap from krystol, what’s next 2 thread’s on o’lilie and coulter.?…
August 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pmExplain to us how leaving will make the situation better. If you can’t satisfy those that fear the consequences of the pullout, aren’t you just substituting one ill-planned initiative (as you would argue) for another. Be better and more thoughtful than the conservatives you lament. If you truly are more reasonable, your partisanship won’t cloud your judgement.
Comment by paul
Nice try Paul, but no soap. Your necon administration - like yourself who never served in uniform - made all the wrong choices, at all the wrong times, for all the wrong reasons and you want us to fix the stinking mess your ‘dear leader’ made? Is that your idea of accountability? As I mentioned in my last post, it fits right in where the right is: we screwed everything up and now YOU find a way to fix it. No way. You maintaining loyalty to this administration is kinda cute, but you need to find the brrom and clean up you own messes - at least that is how I was raised.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:48 pm“But most seem to believe that if we leave Iraq, there will be an all out civil war followed by Islamic theocracy. Islamic theocracy, that dispite your retoric makes fundamentalist Christians look progressive and tolerant by comparasion.”
Iraq is already in an all our Civil War and our staying is doing nothing to stop it. And so what if Iraq wants to be an Islamic theocracy. I thought that you righties were thrilled that the Iraqi’s were now able to make up their own minds as to how they would run their government. Who in the hell are we to tell them what is good for them. Would you want China or Russia go invade our country and tell us what they think is best for us?
How the Iraqi’s run their government is none of our damn business. The only reason why we invaded Iraq was to steal their oil. Now that it looks like we will never get their oil, it is time for us to leave. We have already done enough harm to that country, we have no right to continue the harm. Not to mention the harm it has done to our country.
You are an idiot if you think staying in Iraq another six months is going to make any difference.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:49 pmTRoS, paul has always been a commenter interested in reading other opinions, like Exley.
Racist wasnt meant as an insult. But as a description of an attitude towards some issue.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:50 pmIt is funny, but the same people who argued about ‘taking the gloves off’ to deal with the Iraqis, laughing about “frat pranks” in Abu Ghraib, calling people concerned about civilian deaths worry-warts and not worrying about ‘appeasing the world” and even nuking Iraq are suddenly so in fear of something happening to the Iraqi people.
They are a shameless lot.
-GSD
August 10th, 2007 at 12:52 pmPaul, although other had said it better than me, it all comes to this:
If you agree that Islamic Theocracy is not a system that some people should live by, then you agree other people forcing you to adopt this or that system.
If you cant see this, you dont know a word called: respect.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:54 pmPaul is a typical Republican, wants everybody to believe as he does, even though he’s been proven wrong time and again. Enlist, Paul, do your part instead of spreading lies and propaganda.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:55 pm“Well, stand up for what you believe, or are you a coward?”
I have served in the military and in combat.
Also, here is an excerpt from Thomas Paine’s biography:
His career turned to journalism while in Philadelphia, and suddenly, Thomas Paine became very important. In 1776, he published Common Sense, a strong defense of American Independence from England. He joined the Continental Army and wasn’t a success as a soldier, but he produced The Crisis (1776-83), which helped inspire the Army. This pamphlet was so popular that as a percentage of the population, it was read by or read to more people than today watch the Super Bowl.
But, instead of continuing to help the Revolutionary cause, he returned to Europe and pursued other ventures, including working on a smokeless candle and an iron bridge.
If we employ your logic, Thomas Paine (Common Sense) shouldn’t really have had any say on Americans fighting for their freedom, because he wasn’t actively engaged in the fighting.
If your best strategy is to attack the messenger and not the message, you should probably take another look at your position. It should be a sign that your position isn’t that defensible.
August 10th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThey are a shameless lot.
-GSD
Comment by GSD — August 10, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Excellent point, GSD. OUCH!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 12:57 pmTRoS, paul has always been a commenter interested in reading other opinions, like Exley.
Racist wasnt meant as an insult. But as a description of an attitude towards some issue.
Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
I hear ya Juan. Perhaps I’m getting to be too much of a scold. I just find it so much more effective to truly articulate what’s offensive of misleading or dishoinest in a post than just start using explitives and calling names.
The comments you made after that about WHY you find Paul’s post to be racist were very good! (I’m agreeing w/ you, BTW :-)!!!)
August 10th, 2007 at 1:00 pmIf you cant see this, you dont know a word called: respect.
Juan. I respect you and your arguments. If you consider the genocide in Darfur, would it be your position that it is up to the people of Darfur to decide for themselves whether or not to participate and or endure the genocide? Would it be your position that we should leave them alone and respect there autonomy to pursue genocide? Allow one group to slaughter another? God forbid westerners to disrespectfully interfer.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:06 pmIf your best strategy is to attack the messenger and not the message, you should probably take another look at your position. It should be a sign that your position isn’t that defensible.
Comment by paul
Again, sir. Nice try at re-direction. The messenger is you. Your message is misguided because YOU offered nothing to support YOUR position except we need to stay in Iraq. Sir, that is not a position - it is an unhelpful way of thinking about the vanity war which mr. bush started. Again - I don’t have to prove my way is the way, because I didn’t create the mess we are in. YOU need to feel obligated to offer us something other that tough talking and more death of our brave soldiers. BTW, if you did serve this country in uniform I have the highest respect for you for doing that. That is no snark - frankly if you did what you said, you are a braver man than I am. Still, i would hope that your service would provide some perspective that mighty giants do get brought down to size. All the brave soldiers in the world can’t win a war if it is managed by imbeciles.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmpaul,
Is there a period of time after which you would say enough is enough? You have said you are ok with losing 100 soldiers’ lives and 400 more seruously wounded for the next 6 months, how about a year? Two years? Ten years?
What would you have said to that question two years ago?
At some point, even the most die-hard neocon has to say enough is enough. But it’s always a rolling six month period and things are getting worse not better.
The real reason Bush and his sycophant defenders (apologies to TRoS) keep begging for more time, is to give themselves cover until the next Administration takes over and cleans this mess up. Then they can all say that they weren’t wrong, that if we had only lasted another six months we would have won.
Bullshit. We are losing our soldiers and creating more terrorist enemies every day we stay. But that’s ok with the neocons, that’s the cost of not having to say you were wrong.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmBill Krystal is a coward and so are the democrats.
http://www.plainnews.blogspot.com
August 10th, 2007 at 1:10 pmKristol: Surge deserves ‘another six months.
umm…. I’m pretty sure Mr. Kristol KNOWS that the USA will be there far longer than six months!
August 10th, 2007 at 1:17 pmWe can’t leave ‘yet,’ the concrete on our permanent airbases needs time to set, and the concrete in people’s heads who don’t understand the meaning of the word PERMANENT has dulled the hardest titanium jackhammer bits.
Think of the PERMANENT OCCUPATION OF IRAQ as a series of sluices, made out of concrete, down which that former nation’s former inhabitants blood can flow. An orderly genocide is, to quote Herr Matthews, “bringing democracy to the Middle East” — one dead Arab at a time, though preferably in the millions when our ‘work’ is done.
And the beauty part is that it is highly profitable, even if considerable expense in dental bills is involved, trying to keep the fangs from showing. At a recent fang-measuring contest, Herr Snow’s recently removed pair of eight inch incisors easily won out over his former boss, Herr Murdoch (son of famous antichrists Gog and Magog), although the elder bastard said his were shorter because he had just finished gnawing the heads off the Bankcroft family. Yummy!
August 10th, 2007 at 1:23 pmNobody likes war, but sometimes, it’s better than the alternative.
Comment by paul — August 10, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
That pretty much sums it up, doesn’t it? For our dear troll and the subject of the thread: war is icky, but necessary (as long as I don’t have to do it).
How much blood does this administration need to bathe in?
August 10th, 2007 at 1:23 pmAllow one group to slaughter another? God forbid westerners to disrespectfully interfer.
Comment by paul
Paul, westerners not only interfer. They DIVIDED THE WHOLE CONTINENT. You see those straight lines dividing countries in Africa? Do you think that was done by Africans themselves? About the Darfur problem…why are westerners interfering since beginning of the century? Do you know that Belgium began doing racial profiling between Tutsis and hutus? That they began the apartheid?
No, I guess you didnt. You see consequences…people slaughtering people. The causes are the important ones.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:27 pmPaul, westerners not only interfer. They DIVIDED THE WHOLE CONTINENT. You see those straight lines dividing countries in Africa? Do you think that was done by Africans themselves? About the Darfur problem…why are westerners interfering since beginning of the century? Do you know that Belgium began doing racial profiling between Tutsis and hutus? That they began the apartheid?
No, I guess you didnt. You see consequences…people slaughtering people. The causes are the important ones.
Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
—-
Oh, really now? That complicates things. Sadly, I still suspect the same outcome.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 10, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
August 10th, 2007 at 1:29 pmJuan C,
I’m glad you’ve begun studying Rwanda. Now you know how Clinton and the UN FAILED miserably!!!
August 10th, 2007 at 1:31 pmNow you know how Clinton and the UN FAILED miserably!!!
Comment by p
I would blame the UN. I blame the UN for not standing up against the US in NIcaragua, Panama, Granada, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. I blame Clinton for bombing 5 countries.
However, I appreciate Clinton not going into Darfur…it is not a US issue. It is a UN issue. US is not the world police, or did you see foreign troops in New York after 2001…just to “stabilize” things? Why not? Your troops are almost everywhere once a destabilization occurs (most of them provoked by CIA…I have to say)
Pretty funny how you want me to adore Clinton so I fit into your “right and wrong sad little” description of the world.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:37 pmWhy not?
Because there were no ethnic killings, of course.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:40 pmWhen Kristol has any relevancy, there will be formations of pigs at 20,000 feet!
August 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pmJuan. I’m sure you arguments carry a lot of weight, if you looking into the past.
But, the question remains, would you turn your back on the people of Darfur today, out of principle to respect their autonomy and the autonomy of the people of Iraq.
I understand you disagree with much of western history, but I assume you claim to be progressive:
defined:
Moving forward; advancing.
Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods.
For a progressive, you spend a lot of time defending your positions, by explaining you discontent with the past.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:45 pmI understand you disagree with much of western history
I dont know what you mean by this. Guess you wanted to say that I disagree with events made by some governments and groups of people. Whether they are Western or Far East, it doesnt matter. The present example is a proof that Western countries have enslaved, stolen and divided a whole continent for profits.
We can talk about how Japanese killed millions of Chineses whenever you want, so your “westerness” doesnt feel so attacked.
For a progressive, you spend a lot of time defending your positions, by explaining you discontent with the past.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:52 pmComment by paul
Thats how progress is made. See the scientific method.
Kristol deserves 6 months.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:54 pmI dont know what you mean by this. Guess you wanted to say that I disagree with events made by some governments and groups of people.
He means that you subscribe to a revisionist history.
Must likely because of you devotion to Chomsky.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:02 pmThis is par for the course, YET ANOTHER FU from these idiots that can’t manage their way out of a paper bag much less “bring democracy” to Iraq. As if the Bush brand of “democracy” is something anyone would want. They don’t want the US shoving their agenda down their throats, bad enough the US has destroyed their country, now they want to steal their oil. the Iraqi people can solve their own problems, they sure don’t need their INVADERS to tell them how to solve it! WE are the reason they are facing so much strife through our illegal actions! Good heavens, Bush Cheney and Gonzales should all be charged criminally and removed from office. Joe Biden is right. This has gone on long enough.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:02 pmIf I was wrong as often as Kristol has been, I’d be hiding out somewhere in shame. At the very least, I’d hesitiate to express my dubious opinion. Why are these pundits who are always wrong constantly appearing on my TV?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pmHow historically ironic that the warmongering Paul uses Thomas Paine to make a point. Paine was the most liberal of all our Founders. He was an unashamed athiest and was hounded into bankruptcy by the conservative christians in his time. He agreed with Jefferson that we shouldn’t even have a standing army and we should have nothing to do with military “conquest.”
But, what Paul and “Gitmorules” seem to overlook or purposely ignore is that the vast majority of foreign insurgents in Iraq are there because of our presence. If we leave, they will too and if they don’t, the Iraqis themselves will kick them out. And, there will be no “genocide” of Sunnis by the ruling Shiites because Iraq and Iran are still surrounded by countries dominated by Sunnis.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:10 pmLetseee, he’s been wrong on every call so far.
So are the odds finally catching up that he might be right for once?
I think not.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:11 pmBut, the real question for this thread is this: How many times must Bill Kristol lie or be spectacularly wrong about things before conservatives stop listening to him? The guy’s track record is non-existent. He’s been wrong about everything.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:11 pmBill Kristol: “There is kind of a ‘pop psycology’ around these days that Sunnis and Shiites can’t get along. Look, Iraq has been secular for a long time. There won’t be any problems between Shiites and Sunnis.”
Conservatives: that’s your guy. How much longer will you take what he says seriously?
August 10th, 2007 at 2:14 pmBut, what Paul and “Gitmorules†seem to overlook or purposely ignore is that the vast majority of foreign insurgents in Iraq are there because of our presence. If we leave, they will too and if they don’t, the Iraqis themselves will kick them out. And, there will be no “genocide†of Sunnis by the ruling Shiites because Iraq and Iran are still surrounded by countries dominated by Sunnis.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 10, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Not fair, Colonel, you’re using facts and experience to back p your position. This will not go down well with rightwing extremists.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pmDon’t worry, ronjazz. As conservatives, they rarely let facts get in the way of a good argument.
August 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pmOkay, don’t take my word for it. If it was such a good idea to leave Iraq now, the democrats you elected to the congress would make it happen. Or at least they would stop the funding. They are smart enough to placate you and also smart enough not to want responsibility for the carnage that will ensue if we pulled out. Why not use your facts and experience on your democratically elected majority.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:20 pmp
August 10th, 2007 at 4:06 pmIf you just keep doing the same thing over and over and over again it will eventually get a different result. Stay the course.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:06 pmAnd then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. And then another six months. …
August 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pmWhy not use your facts and experience on your democratically elected majority. Comment by paul — August 10, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
You - a wingnut - arguing for the use of facts!!! That’s ironic!!!
Facts never persuade you obstructionist inepticons!
August 10th, 2007 at 4:31 pmPaul: “If it was such a good idea to leave Iraq now, the democrats you elected to the congress would make it happen. Or at least they would stop the funding. They are smart enough to placate you and also smart enough not to want responsibility for the carnage that will ensue if we pulled out. Why not use your facts and experience on your democratically elected majority.”
Fact: if you can’t overcome a filibuster with a supermajority, you damn well can’t overcome a veto with a 2/3 majority.
Fact: If the Dems cut off funding, Repubs would accuse them of putting the troops in danger and the media would, of course, play along with Repubs.
But, you know all of this and that’s why your post is intellectually dishonest.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:08 pmIt is wrong to wait another 6 months for a flawed policy to work. The surge cannot succeed without political progress. We can no longer win in Iraq militarily. It is time to get out.
August 10th, 2007 at 5:23 pmJack. Let me get this straight. In order to gain control of Congress, democrats pledged, if elected, they would bring the troops home. That was last November. Democrats won control of the House. They won control of the Senate. Nine months later, the troops are still in Iraq. Only now there are more. When asked to explain, Democrats respond that it is the Republican’s fault.
And I’m intellectually dishonest?
August 10th, 2007 at 6:18 pmIf the Dems cut off funding, Repubs would accuse them of putting the troops in danger and the media would, of course, play along with Repubs.
translation: We care about troops dying in an unwinable war, but we don’t care enough to be wrongfully accused by the media of placing them in danger.
Is that the progressive idea of leadership?
August 10th, 2007 at 6:26 pmOK, toad- sucker. We’ll have you there by next week. Pack light, loser.
August 10th, 2007 at 7:01 pmThe best thing would be not to give Mr. Kristol any column-inches whatsoever. Why print what is unfit to even wipe with?
August 10th, 2007 at 10:55 pmDon’t you love how the war cheerleaders are so concerned for the welfare of the Iraqi people while simultaneously hating all Muslims and wanting to bomb Iran back into the stone age? Obviously it’s not the Iraqi people that they care about as much as it’s our occupation and domination of their country that makes them feel better.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:59 amConservatives don’t want Iraq to be what Vietnam was for Johnson and Nixon. A failure. But the fact is that it has become a failure. The surge has failed too.
August 11th, 2007 at 1:28 amI remember when I was about 19 I thought “In six months, I’m going to have my first record finished and I’ll be a rock star.” Strangely, when I was 25 I was saying “Seriously… No more screwing around. In six months, I’m going to have my first record finished and I’ll be a rock star!!” Now I’m 30 and I’m saying “Okay, maybe not six months, but soon!”
Is that what the perpetual surge is like?
August 13th, 2007 at 12:58 pm