Think Progress

Schakowsky On Iraq Visit: ‘Surge Is A Failure,’ Warns There Is ‘Major PR Effort Going On’»

janRep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) just returned from a visit to Iraq, a trip that she called a “PR tour” chaperoned by U.S. Embassy officials. In a conference call hosted by Americans Against Escalation In Iraq this afternoon, Schakowsky said plainly, “I believe overall the surge is a failure. Why’s that? Because the purpose was to reduce violence to create a safer environment, to create the space for political reconciliation. And Iraq is as far from that as it’s ever been. … It’s clear to me we cannot win someone else’s religious civil war.”

In addition to the lack of political progress, Schakowsky said that “the security situation in Baghdad is really bad.” As evidence of this, she noted, “You can’t go anywhere without being heavily guarded. To go a few miles from Baghdad to a training camp, we had to get into a Blackhawk helicopter. We had to put on our body armor and our helmets in order to get there.”

A member of the House Intelligence Committee, Schakowsky was one of six House members to visit Iraq. Her contingent spoke with Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker. She said Petraeus told her “the U.S. would be in Iraq for 9-10 years if we want to win,” a comment he has made repeatedly. Listen to her remarks:

Screenshot

She warned that there is ongoing PR blitz from the White House and its conservative allies to build public support for a long-term occupation of Iraq:

It concerns me that they’re building up enthusiastically in much the same way that we led up to the vote and then the war in October 2002 and then March of 2003. It does worry me that some the media is buying in. […]

What I feel is going on right now is that there’s a major PR effort going on to convince the Congress and the media and the public that just enough progress has been made to justify staying. A little more, and then maybe a little more, and a little more — perhaps to where Petraeus has said 9 or 10 years have elapsed. Calling for patience is not at this point going to work with the American people, and I’m hoping…are just too smart to be fooled again.

During one of the days she was in Iraq, Schakowsky said four soldiers were killed in the Diyala province, a British soldier was killed in Baghdad, 33 Iraqis were killed in Tal Afar in a residential neighborhood by a truck bomb, six street cleaners were killed by an IED in Baghdad, two people were killed on a minibus, and 17 bodies found killed by death squads.

“It’s so clear to me that our focus is on the wrong battlefield,” Schakowsky said. “And my experience in the region has convinced me more than ever that we must set a deadline to withdraw our troops from the religious and tribal civil war that’s going on in Iraq.”

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217 Responses to “Schakowsky On Iraq Visit: ‘Surge Is A Failure,’ Warns There Is ‘Major PR Effort Going On’”


  1. stopthecons Says:

    there’s been a major pr effort going on since 2002.

    This war is immoral, financially ruinous and totally unconstitutional - and it’s been that way since the day it started.

    More troops, and more killing isn’t going to change that.

    The time to end this insane war is now.

    Some further reading:

    “Top-Ten Reasons to Get out of Iraq. Now!”
    http://www.populistamerica.com/ top_ten_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq_now


  2. Tobey Tall Says:

    Iraq: Oil Tenders Next Month

    Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani said yesterday that the country hopes to offer tenders on certain oil fields as early as September for its oilfields, but this can happen only after the controversial oil law is passed.

    Speaking in Moscow, he also dashed hopes that certain Russian oil companies would get preferential treatment, although said that Lukoil could have an advantage over other bidders because of its history in Iraq.

    http://www.priceofoil.org/


  3. Tobey Tall Says:

    The Moscow times

    Iraqi Oil Minister Lays Out the Rules

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2007/08/10/001.html



  4. Tobey Tall Says:

    He also said that all 27 producing fields in Iraq will be transferred to the national oil company, which will be free to decide whether it wants partners.

    http://www.ireland.com/ newspaper/ breaking/ 2007/ 0809/ breaking56.htm


  5. Tobey Tall Says:

    However, Mr Shahristani said after the meeting the company could have an advantage over other bidders.

    “Lukoil has done much in Iraq, has experience of working in our country, possesses vast data about Iraqi oil deposits. These temporary advantages raise the company’s chances for winning free and transparent oil tenders,” the minister said.


  6. Tobey Tall Says:

    She said Petraeus told her “the U.S. would be in Iraq for 9-10 years if we want to win,”

    LETS HOPE BETRAYUS TELLS THE US PUBLIC THAT


  7. ronjazz Says:

    Betrayus is a bigger lair than CT, p or m12. Bush really went under the rocks to find this traitor.


  8. bobh Says:

    He wouldn’t be the first officer to piss on his men for another star.


  9. Tobey Tall Says:

    1 million dead in Iraq

    http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/


  10. p Says:

    “She said Petraeus told her “the U.S. would be in Iraq for 9-10 years if we want to win,”

    We do.


  11. Keith H. Says:

    Wow, Ms. Schakowsky better be watching her back.
    They really don’t like it when people tell the truth.
    This admin. is liable to find a way for her to experience an unfortunate ‘accident’.


  12. p Says:

    Americans Against Escalation In Iraq

    Is it me, or does this organization sound like it may be biased?


  13. Ringo Says:

    Yeah failure!

    / do I fit in now?


  14. Tobey Tall Says:

    “She said Petraeus told her “the U.S. would be in Iraq for 9-10 years if we want to win,”

    We do.

    Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 6:42 pm

    Actually that is one way to lose big time


  15. p Says:

    The general [Petraeus] also highlighted progress in Anbar province, where former Sunni insurgents have turned against Al Qaeda extremists in recent months.

    Cool!


  16. Ringo Says:

    “To go a few miles from Baghdad to a training camp, we had to get into a Blackhawk helicopter. We had to put on our body armor and our helmets in order to get there.”
    ——————————————————————-
    It’s a freaking war you dumb (unt!

    …of course if you’d rather walk without body armor and a helmet, be my guest.


  17. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    p, something tells me that when the average soldier in Iraq looks at this blog, sees the question of whether or not we want to be there for 9-10 years, and then sees your “We do” response, mordant chuckles ensue. No matter what you think, soldiers in Iraq don’t appreciate tin-horn phony warmongers speaking for them, especially regarding the question of whether of not they should be stuck there for the next 10 years in 120 degree heat fighting for…. what, exactly?


  18. p Says:

    “It was pretty upbeat from his [Petraeus’] point of view,” Schakowsky said. “He said he wanted to be frank and honest. But still we would have to be there for some time — for a long time.”

    Well, I’m glad that Petraeus is upbeat! The surge was a success!

    Now the Iraqis need to get their sh!t together.


  19. p Says:

    Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 10, 2007 @ 6:49 pm

    Americans will be in Iraq for more than just 10 years.


  20. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    I see that the 101st Fighting Keyboarders are enthusiastically commiting our troops to another 10 years of fighting in Iraq. And, this is on a day in which the Fighting Keyboarders had absolutely nothing to say about Bush refusing to guarantee veterans their educational benefits. Gee, I’m sure the troops appreciate your “support.”


  21. Ringo Says:

    We’ll be fighting Islamists for decades - maybe a generation - and in the end we still may not succeed.

    The US will survive but much of the rest of the world will not.


  22. Seitz Says:

    We do.

    Comment by p

    Then get your ass over there, chickenhawk.


  23. Doc Rock Says:

    Next comes her Swift-boating, branding, and discrediting by the Neo-con spin machines!


  24. p Says:

    YEA? YOU READY FOR ANOTHER CIVIL WAR?
    HERE IN AMERICA?

    Comment by GoTFreeDUMB? — August 10, 2007 @ 6:52 pm

    huh?

    Why are asking such a stupid question. IslamoFascists are in America, but they do not make up enough of the population so as a war against them would be dubbed a “Civil War.”

    LOL


  25. nanlichi Says:

    Chickenhawk chickenshit little Ms. p. Do you never tire of licking the smag off of Bush’s dick?

    You sycophants should really move to another country and get the f*ck out of mine.


  26. p Says:

    You sycophants should really move to another country and get the f*ck out of mine.

    Comment by nanlichi — August 10, 2007 @ 6:56 pm

    I’m in America. I don’t know where you live.


  27. Bush's Legacy Says:

    Somebody once said “six months, tops”…Can you name that clown>?


  28. Tom Says:

    We’ll be fighting Islamists for decades - maybe a generation - and in the end we still may not succeed.

    The US will survive but much of the rest of the world will not.

    Comment by Ringo

    So I guess we will a need draft then. Should we have a draft, Ringo? 10 yrs is a long time to continue to lower recruiting standards. I can imagine after a while anybody who can reach a trigger would be eligible to join the service. Then after that, even if you can’t reach the trigger, they will still allow you to enlist. After that, who knows.


  29. beavis Says:

    “blah blah blaaah”

    - Comment by “p” —

    …. Exley? …. Bro? …. Is that you, Exley? ….


  30. p Says:

    Slow news day. TP has to cover PR efforts.

    Hey TP, how about some real news from Iraq!!!

    The Surge is a Success!!!


  31. Jeremy Pissed at TP Says:

    [Mr.] p got owned big time in the Sali thread, so I’ll part for the day on this comment.

    It’s funny that the Troll known as Mr. P/Ringo/Conservatron/etc. is so quick to support Bush’s war when it could be it that gets called when the draft is called up. Don’t mention how much treasure that’ll cost over 10 years. Again. My father, the hard-core goldwater conservative, can no longer call himself a member of the Republican party. Not that he’s gone democrat, mind you, but you’ve managed to take a reliable ‘R’ vote and turn it off entirely.

    Great move there. 10 years, indeed.


  32. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    Ringo: “We’ll be fighting Islamists for decades - maybe a generation…”

    What great vision today’s conservatives have for our country. No, if we wean ourselves from the oil addiction, get our military out of their countries and shore up our own domestic defenses, this will be all but over in far less than a generation. If 50% of the cars on our roads were plug-in hybrids, we wouldn’t have to import one quart of middle east oil. Chevrolet, Toyota and Honda will have many plugin models on the market by 2010.


  33. Seitz Says:

    I’m in America. I don’t know where you live.

    I thought you wanted to win? Can’t win from over here, coward. Load up and ship out, chickenhawk.


  34. Ringo Says:

    So I guess we will a need draft then. Should we have a draft, Ringo?

    Comment by Tom
    ——————————————————–

    Not yet.


  35. paul Says:

    “It does worry me that some the media is buying in.”

    When the media reports the efforts are working, they’re buying in.

    When the media reports bad news from Iraq they are objective.

    Isn’t it the same media?


  36. OxyCon Says:

    How soon will it be before right wing goon Michelle Malkin launches a Swift Boat attack on Schakowsky?


  37. funky p Says:

    Troll alert.
    p sounds a lot like P.
    Ignore and proceed.

    Now they want to give favorable treatment to Russian energy companies. The neocons who cooked up this mess cannot be happy about that. No wonder they want to bomb Iran.


  38. p Says:

    I thought you wanted to win? Can’t win from over here, coward. Load up and ship out, chickenhawk.

    Comment by Seitz — August 10, 2007 @ 7:01 pm

    I thought you wanted to lose? Can’t lose from over here, coward. Load up and ship out, hawkchicken.


  39. mahamis Says:

    Yea, we stay in Iraq for 30 years and more (1 generation being 15 years x2) so that we would become similar to the former Soviet Union. What we are doing to the Iraqis is what the former Soviet Union did to Eastern Europe, which is to impose its communist ideology by military might.

    We imposed our ideology (democracy) by military might in Iraq.


  40. DittoHeads Suck Says:

    Yeah failure!

    / do I fit in now?

    Comment by Ringo — August 10, 2007 @ 6:44 pm

    Maybe you shouldn’t start fights you can’t win.


  41. katy Says:

    the Fighting Keyboarders had absolutely nothing to say about Bush refusing to guarantee veterans their educational benefits. Gee, I’m sure the troops appreciate your “support.”
    Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — August 10, 2007 @ 6:53 pm

    good form! … such a pleasure to read your posts…
    so glad to have you around…


  42. p Says:

    p sounds a lot like P.

    No!!!!

    Get outta town!!!

    Ya don’t say!?!?!?


  43. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Betrayus is a bigger lair than CT, p or m12. Bush really went under the rocks to find this traitor.

    Comment by ronjazz — August 10, 2007 @ 6:39 pm

    That is a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y not true. I couldn’t lair more than General Betrayus. Lairing on a regular basis, nobody could do that better than I. So stop passing lairs!


  44. 911-was-an-InsideJob Says:

    … so… what are the Dems doing about the situation in Iraq? Bowing to the Toy Emperor?

    Come on, Dems! DO SOMETHING!!!


  45. nanlichi Says:

    I live in the 80% of America who would rather see Bush with a 100 grain broadhead through his guts, than lose our finest soldiers to his War of choice.

    The other 20% dumbf*cks who would rather support a pitiful man’s ego than support our soldiers live in some country other than a true America.

    Go f*ck yourself little p.


  46. VerbalKint Says:

    How idiots like “p” can continue to support the failed policies of this failed administration is beyond me.


  47. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    A legislator warns that the surge is a failure and that there will be a PR campaign to convince the gullable among us that this is not the case. On cue, the gullable Bush cultist types, “The Surge is a success!!!!”

    This would be comedy if it were not so tragic.


  48. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 7:02 pm

    Good point, p.


  49. Desmodus Says:

    The neo-cons are a bunch of war junkies whose mantra now is “One more fix will do the trick”.

    Just one more fix, Lord might do the trick
    One hell of a price for you to get your kicks
    Ooooh that smell
    Can’t you smell that smell
    Ooooh that smell
    The smell of death surrounds you
    Ooooh that smell
    Can’t you smell that smell
    Ooooh that smell
    The smell of death surrounds you


  50. Bush's Legacy Says:

    I don’t know if drafting or enlisting these keyboard kommandos is such a good idea.
    I wouldn’t want any of their whiny asses in a foxhole near mine.
    I’d be deathly afraid that in their sheer panic they’d forget the safety was off, they were locked and loaded and their weapon would accidently discharge as they ran screaming away from the fight.


  51. katy Says:

    …. Exley? …. Bro? …. Is that you, Exley? ….
    Comment by beavis — August 10, 2007 @ 7:00 pm

    oh lord no… that is not exley… you really wonder?
    but i am surprised he is not here to defend his “honor”…

    there, i just did…
    .


  52. WaltinTexas Says:

    #26, Seitz- Thanks, that’s just what I was thinking!


  53. DittoHeads Suck Says:

    When the media reports the efforts are working, they’re buying in.

    When the media reports bad news from Iraq they are objective.

    Isn’t it the same media?

    Comment by paul — August 10, 2007 @ 7:01 pm

    Well paul, hate to break it to you, but things aren’t working over there. When you have to change the rules like not counting deaths from car bombs to make the causality count lower, you’re not winning. when more and more innocent people are dying, and thus creating more insurgents, you’re not winning. When the Iraqi people want to control their oil, but the USA doesn’t want them to, you’re not winning.
    When you have to ignore the body counts, and have third parties make those counts, you’re not winning..

    Next!


  54. gorn by any other name Says:

    “She said Petraeus told her “the U.S. would be in Iraq for 9-10 years if we want to win”

    Win what?


  55. michael Says:

    Now here is the name of one of our troops I know you liberals love and adore!

    “Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp”


  56. GSD Says:

    Howard Dean has looked at a videotape of the Republican Party and has determined that they are suffering from a mass induced psychosis.

    Senator Jim Bunning(R-KY) explains the GOP’s symptoms.

    -GSD


  57. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    Thanks, Katy! Keep up the good work yourself!


  58. p Says:

    Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 7:05 pm

    Thanks, CT.

    I can’t stand all of these hawkchickens (you know… the Laptop Taliban) screaming and whining about how they want the US to lose.

    Meanwhile, they stay safe behind their laptops and PC’s.

    You should have seen the video of the DailyKooze… it was a hawkchicken swarm, the likes I have never seen!!!

    Most of the big-shot Dem hawchickens were there!


  59. MsJ Says:

    They haven’t signed over their oil yet. Cheney won’t let us go…well, perhaps we can go into Iran to try to get their oil, too.


  60. funky p Says:

    I don’t know if drafting or enlisting these keyboard kommandos is such a good idea.
    I wouldn’t want any of their whiny asses in a foxhole near mine.
    I’d be deathly afraid that in their sheer panic they’d forget the safety was off, they were locked and loaded and their weapon would accidently discharge as they ran screaming away from the fight.

    Comment by Bush’s Legacy — August 10, 2007 @ 7:05 pm

    They’d go AWOL (like their hero) before boot camp is over.


  61. 911-was-an-InsideJob Says:

    From an article published on Aug 3rd, 2007 titled “No progress yet on Mideast agend” we read…

    …The Bush administration has little credibility in the Arab world after it largely ignored the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; backed Israel’s failed war against Islamic militant in Lebanon; shunned the Islamic winners of Palestinian elections; refused to engage with Syria and launched a preemptive war against Iraq…

    Some officials from countries, who privately have raged at Bush’s policies and even questioned his trustworthiness, seemed to be counting the months until a successor takes office…

    Since the Dems have done nothing to contain the Boy King, it seems that we’re all relegated to waiting until a successor takes office.

    This sucks! All talk and no real action against King George and his Thugs. Sh*t!!!


  62. Frank J Says:

    Inconvenient Data Adjustment

    So, apparently a lot of the data people used to “prove” global warming is complete crap. I already knew the “science” based on the data was crap, but apparently the data used for it was wrong even on their own crap standards. So, 1934 was the warmest year for the past century… however it is someone determines the average temperature for a year.

    But don’t let that stop us from panicking and overthrowing our economies


  63. michael Says:

    “They’d go AWOL (like their hero) before boot camp is over.

    Comment by funky p — August 10, 2007″

    Who went AWOL?


  64. p Says:

    You all should be proud and happy that surge worked so well.


  65. VerbalKint Says:

    Could “p” stand for Patrick? I haven’t seen Patrick-stupidest-troll-ever lately, and this “p” guy is obviously dumber than a rock.


  66. gorn by any other name Says:

    The Colonel gets it. Worthy of a re-post:

    No, if we wean ourselves from the oil addiction, get our military out of their countries and shore up our own domestic defenses, this will be all but over in far less than a generation.

    The ONLY solution to this problem is ending the oil dependency that is the root cause. Fix that, and ME conflict (involving us) will quickly die away. The only other reason for conflict flows from the End Times dreams of christo-fanatics.

    Bad idea: putting the country in the charge of christo-fanatic oil tycoons.

    Duh!

    Let’s, pretty please, have a REAL strategy.


  67. Arthur C. Says:

    …how they want the US to lose.

    Lefties want the US to win. We are, however, skeptical of the claim that America can win the hearts and minds of the Middle East by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Tell us again how that works?


  68. michael Says:

    “Is michael — A RIGHTWING RETHUGLIGOON TROLL????

    Comment by GoTFreeDUMB? — August 10, 2007″

    Are you responding to a question?


  69. ronjazz Says:

    Pretty funny, hawkchickens, especially coming from a pansy like p. When we’re finished burying the GOP, maybe we can take to the streets and kick p’s buggered ass for a while, if we can catch him as he runs crying down the stairs to mumsy. enlist, coward, or you’re nothing but hot air and treason.



  70. michael Says:

    “this “p” guy is obviously dumber than a rock.

    Comment by VerbalKint — August 10, 2007″

    Why? What did they say that is dumb?


  71. tony Says:

    gee, a democrat saying the surge is a failure- why is this news- its predictable


  72. michael Says:

    “by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Tell us again how that works?

    Comment by Arthur C. — August 10, 2007″

    Where did you get that figure? From Michael Moore? That figure isn’t even clos!


  73. ronjazz Says:

    frank j is worried that saving the world will overthrow our economy, as if Bushco hadn’t already destroyed it for all but the very rich. How’s that Dow today, trolls?


  74. Juan C Says:

    Trolls are not even amusing anymore. What a big yawn.

    I just have to scroll down and scroll down in order to find decent comments.


  75. Tom Says:

    What great vision today’s conservatives have for our country. No, if we wean ourselves from the oil addiction, get our military out of their countries and shore up our own domestic defenses, this will be all but over in far less than a generation.

    Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper

    The Colonel is wise - and correct. The proper path would be for us to understand that OIL is the reason this has all happened. if we took the investment in killing innocent civilians - and our brave soldiers - then we would have the resources to utilize another energy source. The whole world will run out of oil in less the 100 yrs (some say a lot less than that). It seems silly, and criminal, to continue to fight and die for a resource which by its nature is finite. It will be all gone. then what do we fight about?


  76. Arthur C. Says:

    this “p” guy is obviously dumber than a rock…

    This “p guy” is the same fool who once argued that Saudis aren’t Muslims (actually, it’s where Islam was born), and cited a fatwa by Osama bin Laden as his “proof.”


  77. michael Says:

    “Ann Coulter Went AWOL !DMBFUK!

    Comment by GoTFreeDUMB? — August 10, 2007″

    Oh! I thought you might have been stupid enough to refer to our great leader!


  78. VerbalKint Says:

    #68 Wrong thread, Frank. Wrong century, too, if you think you are going to get anywhere with your global warming denial theology. The scientific community has reached a consensus on global warming so strong that to reject it is to reject science as a whole. Is that where you want to stand, Frank? Are you also a young earth creationist? Do you also reject evolution theory, the central plank of biology? Are you waiting for the rapture? Or are you just a liar, like the tobacco industry lobbyists who say that smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer?


  79. p Says:

    Now here is the name of one of our troops I know you liberals love and adore!

    “Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp”

    Comment by michael — August 10, 2007 @ 7:07 pm

    ———

    heh.

    You’re right about that, Michael.


  80. bilbobaggins Says:

    The truth is simple. You cannot win an occupation without complete subjugation of the people in the country you are occupying. Why should we occupy a country for 9-10 years bankrupting this country. Frankly, I would rather take my chances with the terrorists who are going to follow our troops home. We have no right to occupy Iraq. We have no right to try to steal their oil. We have no right to destroy their country.

    We are wrong and it’s time that we leave so that Iraq can make it’s country whole again.


  81. michael Says:

    “I just have to scroll down and scroll down in order to find decent comments.

    Comment by Juan C — August 10, 2007″

    When you find one written by a liberal, can you point it out to the rest of us?


  82. p Says:

    The whole world will run out of oil in less the 100 yrs (some say a lot less than that).

    Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

    How do you know?


  83. VerbalKint Says:

    michael, read comment #84 in answer to your question in #78.


  84. Arthur C. Says:

    Now here is the name of one of our troops I know those wingnuts love and adore: Right-wing Porn Marine Matt Sanchez!


  85. ronjazz Says:

    michael is never right about anything, he’s just a koolaid-drinking cowardly liar, like p.


  86. p Says:

    You cannot win an occupation without complete subjugation of the people in the country you are occupying.

    Comment by bilbobaggins — August 10, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

    We don’t want to occupy Iraq, we want them to pull themselves up, and become contributing members of the international community.



  87. michael Says:

    “he’s just a koolaid-drinking cowardly liar, like p.

    Comment by ronjazz — August 10, 2007 ”

    Boy, I guess you told me!


  88. beavis Says:

    Something to think about …

    (courtesy of blogger “markfromireland”)

    “Mindful of the political fallout from a rising American death toll in Iraq, the U.S. military has pulled back from widespread use of aggressive tactics on the ground this summer, helping to explain a modest reduction in the number of soldiers killed in July, according to intelligence and military sources.

    The number of U.S. military fatalities declined to 80 in July after three months of a death toll in the triple digits (104 in April, 126 in May, and 101 in June). The lower death toll has been cited by some U.S. commanders in Iraq and Bush administration supporters in Washington as a sign that President George W. Bush’s “surge” of U.S. troops is working.

    But the sources told me that the lower death toll reflects not some impending victory but just a slowdown in the U.S. ground offensive after the early phases of the surge, which poured more than 20,000 additional troops into Iraq. The sources cited a variety of factors contributing to the decline in U.S. casualties.

    One U.S. military source said the American troops have not pushed as far from their forward operating bases as the U.S. news media has been led to believe. When Bush unveiled the surge, a key goal was to get American forces out of their secure bases and into small police outposts in Iraqi neighborhoods.”

    So one positive achievement of the “surge” (lower U.S. combat casualties) may have actually achieved by not “surging” …

    Well, … how ’bout that …


  89. p Says:

    michael is never right about anything, he’s just a koolaid-drinking cowardly liar, like p.

    Comment by ronjazz — August 10, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
    —————-

    We’re not the ones hoping for America to fail.

    YOU ARE!!!


  90. Aimee Says:

    The Iragis will not agree to the oil provisions set up by the US and the oil companies.

    That’s one subject all of the Iragis come together on.

    They want us out, and they will deal with Al Qaeda themselves.


  91. number 1 Says:

    #

    test

    Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 7:21 pm

    Fail


  92. WaltTheMan Says:

    TP, it would be nice if you nulled these posts:
    Comment by nanlichi — August 10, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
    Comment by GoTFreeDUMB? — August 10, 2007 @ 7:08 pm

    Both threaten the President. Null this one as well, please.


  93. michael Says:

    “or are you not old enough yet to Join the Mil?

    Comment by GoTFreeDUMB? — August 10, 2007″

    5 years in the U.S. Navy, you?


  94. funky p Says:

    Who went AWOL?

    Comment by michael — August 10, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
    GW Bush…he was too busy politickin’ to show up for duty, for over a year.
    He also was banned from flying for refusing to take a physical (why he went AWOL)

    You are obviously part of the PR campaign to label the ’surge’ a success.
    Not.


  95. p Says:

    Well, … how ’bout that …

    Comment by beavis — August 10, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
    ——

    But it is still a sign of improvement!!!

    Or don’t you agree?


  96. Tom Says:

    The whole world will run out of oil in less the 100 yrs (some say a lot less than that).

    Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

    —

    How do you know?

    Comment by p

    Geez p. Because I pay attention and don’t spend lots of time looking up Limbaughs skirt. Ya know: Read a book!. I read your posts and they are rather childish and just troublesome. The entire world of geophysicists have declared the oil reserves declining rapidly. These folks are smarter than you and I when it comes to this stuff. Also start getting used to the phrase Peak Oil. It was first described in the early-mid seventies and the Dr. who described it has been proven correct. Again, another very smart man. You make yourself appear foolish when you write what you write. maybe it’s not your fault. I don’t know and I don’t care.


  97. Ringo'slefttesticle Says:

    79: gee, a republic believing more hype from bush and company. About that bridge in Brooklyn . . .


  98. michael Says:

    “he was too busy politickin’ to show up for duty, for over a year.

    Comment by funky p — August 10, 2007″

    Where does it say that other than dumb liberal blogs?


  99. Frank J Says:

    Great Question for the Next Democratic Presidential Primary Debate

    “What’s more patriotic: serving in the military or protesting the war?”


  100. GSD Says:

    Once the Iraqis pull themselves up by their bootstraps and sign over their oil rights to Halliburton, this war will be a success.

    -GSD


  101. p Says:

    Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 7:25 pm

    You learned it from Al Goracle’s movie!!!

    Just as I thought!!!


  102. Ringo Says:

    Once the Iraqis pull themselves up by their bootstraps and sign over their oil rights to Halliburton, this war will be a success.

    -GSD

    Comment by GSD
    ————————————————-

    Haliburton is not an oil company.


  103. michael Says:

    GoTFreeDUMB, I’m waiting for your answer?


  104. Tom Says:

    Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 7:25 pm

    You learned it from Al Goracle’s movie!!!

    Just as I thought!!!

    Comment by p

    And still again you display your ignorance to the world. Have a nice life.


  105. p Says:

    Have a nice life.

    Comment by Tom — August 10, 2007 @ 7:28 pm

    Thanks, I will. You too.


  106. Arthur C. Says:

    Great Question for the Next Republic Presidential Primary Debate

    “Did any other President lose two wars?”


  107. michael Says:

    “Once the Iraqis pull themselves up by their bootstraps and sign over their oil rights to Halliburton, this war will be a success.

    Comment by GSD — August 10, 2007″

    And you are stupid enough to believe that?


  108. BARTLEBEE Says:

    I appreciate her comments, but I didn’t need her to tell me there was a MASSIVE PR CAMPAIGN from the White House to push extending the war and even escalating it.

    I can see it on every news channel, and all over the internet. Yahoo keeps reposting the Ohanlon\Pollack story like its new news.

    But its not. Its old news.

    And its already been discredited.


  109. michael Says:

    ““Did any other President lose two wars?”

    Comment by Arthur C. — August 10, 2007″

    We lost this war?


  110. gorn by any other name Says:

    “What’s more patriotic: serving in the military or protesting the war?” - frank j

    Yes.

    Next question?


  111. Ringo'slefttesticle Says:

    109 Question for the next Republic debate: What’s more patriotic: Blindly following an incompetent neocon policy or stripping citizens of their Fourth Amendment rights?


  112. VerbalKint Says:

    We’re not the ones hoping for America to fail.
    Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 7:22 pm

    You keep saying this. Where is your proof that anyone here wants America to fail? It should be easy to prove. Please cite comments by number in this or any other TP thread that indicate someone posting here wants America to fail.


  113. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    Again, the warmongering Bush cultists are showing up here to argue that our soldiers need to spend another 10 years in hell, but none of them had anthing to say on a thread about how Bush wouldn’t support educational opportunities for veterans.

    And, Michael, in the late 60’s and early 70’s, the technical definition the military used to define AWOL was out of contact with commanding officers for 30 days or more. There is no record of Bush being in contact with ANY commanding officer for a period of 4 to 6 months during his time of active duty. So, on evidence, yes, it does look like Bush was AWOL.


  114. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Comment by p — August 10, 2007 @ 7:09 pm

    Excellent account. The anti-American, “anti-war” crowd is nestled and comforted. They tout failure, while not having to endure the pain of losing to proven enemies. Keep toutin’, lefties.


  115. Arthur C. Says:

    We lost this war?

    No doubt about it. It was unwinnable from the get-go. It was 100% predictable that the central government would collapse in the wake of a US invasion; and that, in the absence of a strong central government, Iraq would degenerate into economic chaos and secular violence. Bush and his minions, in their infinite ignorance, chose to ignore those warnings.

    Rightwingers can’t win wars: they don’t have what it takes: regular contact with reality.


  116. Spudge_Boy Says:

    “What’s more patriotic: serving in the military or protesting the war?”

    Comment by Frank J — August 10, 2007 @ 7:26 pm

    Better question:

    What is more patriotic, signing up to serve in the military for a war for oil you support or putting a yellow ribbon magnet on your gas guzzling SUV?


  117. Ringo'slefttesticle Says:

    CT: Another example of illiterate republic mixed metaphors: Learn English, punk.
    Seriously, “Keep toutin” - you from the town of Bumfuk?


  118. gorn by any other name Says:

    “We’re not the ones hoping for America to fail. - p

    “You keep saying this.” - VerbalKint

    It’s called a strawman. He will post something better when he stops molesting neighborhood children.

    I think about 75% of the outrageous posts are not from real conservatives, but just monkeys playing games. They are people with nothing better to do and no ethical compass.

    Certainly none of the conservatives that I know (and I know plenty) are as insane as these people pretend to be.


  119. Spudge_Boy Says:

    Certainly none of the conservatives that I know (and I know plenty) are as insane as these people pretend to be.

    Comment by gorn by any other name — August 10, 2007 @ 7:36 pm

    Zero republican I know are insane like these people either.


  120. beavis Says:

    #105

    “p”

    ???????????

    WTF !!!!!!

    You’re joking, right?

    An NFL running back who misses less game time to injuries while carrying the ball at the same rate as before is considered to be MORE DURABLE.

    An NFL running back who suffers fewer injuries because he doesn’t play as much is an ENTIRELY different situation. You cannot look at his reduced injury rate and say he is “more durable” if he isn’t playing as much.

    Apologies to non-NFL / football in general fans.


  121. Frank J Says:

    If Thomas Jefferson thought American liberty was such a great idea, why didn’t he serve in the military?


  122. Arthur C. Says:

    Zero republican I know are insane like these people either.

    Ditto. The Republicans I know are totally disgusted with Bush.


  123. GSD Says:

    On comment # 112, know it all troll says ”Halliburton is not an oil company”.

    Let’s go to the computer and check that pompous, ill conceived comment.

    Halliburton drilling services.

    -GSD

    The Bush supporters just lie when they feel like it.


  124. p Says:

    “We’re not the ones hoping for America to fail. - p

    “You keep saying this.” - VerbalKint

    It’s called a strawman.
    ——–

    No, it true.

    I have read countless posts saying “End this illegal occupation!” or “Bush is war criminal” when, in fact, we are not in Iraq to “occupy” as YOU would have people believe. America is helping Iraq pull itself together. Bush is any thing but a “war criminal” he is an American Hero and True Patriot!!!

    By posting lies about the country, and wishing harm on the President, you are, in fact, displaying your hopes that America does not succeed.

    Hence, you hope that America fails.


  125. Ringo Says:

    Zero republican I know are insane like these people either.

    Comment by Spudge_Boy
    ——————————————————–

    Most of the Democrats that I know are nice people - unhappy, but nice.


  126. p Says:

    Comment by beavis — August 10, 2007 @ 7:38 pm

    So you are saying that you think that less American deaths is bad!!!

    Why do you want America to fail?


  127. Spudge_Boy Says:

    Ever notice that the trolls all served in either the Air Force or Navy? The two branches of the service where people don’t get shot at.


  128. p Says:

    Ditto.

    Comment by Arthur C. — August 10, 2007 @ 7:39 pm

    ——

    Typical Lefty Comment!

    heYoo!
    !!+-+!!


  129. gorn by any other name Says:

    “If Thomas Jefferson thought American liberty was such a great idea, why didn’t he serve in the military?” - Frank J

    If Thomas Jefferson thought women were valuable human beings, why didn’t he castrate himself and wear a dress?


  130. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    Frank: “What’s more patriotic: serving in the military or protesting the war?”

    That depends on the war, Frank. How about this for a question to repubs: What’s more patriotic - to support a war and join up or to support a war and not join up?


  131. p Says:

    Inconvenient Data Adjustment

    So, apparently a lot of the data people used to “prove” global warming is complete crap. I already knew the “science” based on the data was crap, but apparently the data used for it was wrong even on their own crap standards. So, 1934 was the warmest year for the past century… however it is someone determines the average temperature for a year.

    But don’t let that stop us from panicking and overthrowing our economies

    Comment by Frank J — August 10, 2007 @ 7:12 pm

    ————-

    Thanks, Frank J.

    When TP posts a thread like this on a slow news day like today, I guess it is ok to treat it like an open thread.


  132. Arn Gunnutes Says:

    If Thomas Jefferson thought American liberty was such a great idea, why didn’t he serve in the military?

    Comment by Frank J

    Because he foresaw that Chickenhawk cowards like AWOL Bush the WAR CRIMINAL and you and the young Rapetards would need an EXCUSE why YOU aren’t DYING for the LIES of Bush, your hero…

    Instead, REAL, non-traitor Americans are DYING for his TREASON…


  133. I'm Out Says:

    TP (Troll Patrol)

    Rupert is proud of what has become of TP, so I say congratulations to Mr. Dog, P, pp, ppp, Mr. P. PPB, CT, and all the other 29%er’s for your successful takeover of this site, you have proven that the right still has the fight to take it to the enemy. (sarcasm off)


  134. upside00 Says:

    Ever notice that the trolls all served in either the Air Force or Navy? The two branches of the service where people don’t get shot at.

    Comment by Spudge_Boy

    Be careful there! I was in the Air Force in Vietnam and was wounded as a member of ARRS (Air Sea Rescue). Just saying.

    And I am not A repug!!


  135. p Says:

    Damn, we all responded to Frank J, prolific commentor here at TP.


  136. Arthur C. Says:

    Ditto. The Republicans I know are totally disgusted with Bush.

    Typical Lefty Comment!

    Well, it’s the truth. Sorry if it displeases you anti-reality wingnuts. The Republicans I talk to say Bush is incompetent, and blame him for lying to them to trick them into suypporting his endledss, insanely costly invasion, and for ruining the future of their party.


  137. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 10, 2007 @ 7:42 pm

    Ships do go to battle and planes do get downed. There’s certainly a death risk; it’s not a comfort zone.

    You’ve served our country…shouldn’t you know this?


  138. trueblue Says:

    Hey, Spudge_Boy.

    If you haven’t noticed, a bunch of us (Zooey, BnF, TMM, JPark just last night) have decided that the trolls own TP and we should go elsewhere.

    I definately want to extend the invitation to you.

    Any sites you think would be welcoming?
    If you still have my email address, send your response there.

    If not, I still (I believe) have yours and can write you.

    :)

    Have a good night.


  139. VerbalKint Says:

    Zero republican I know are insane like these people either.

    The Republicans that I know are not Bush cultists. Most of them no longer call themselves Republican, because they are so embarrassed by what the party has become. This is why the party is shrinking, and why it appears to be getting more fascist every day: the sane, moderate centrists are fleeing the party.

    Those few Republicans I know who continue to support the party do it with considerable discomfort, and with some degree of denial and self-delusion. This usually takes the form of equivalencing, namely arguing that whatever Bush and the GOP do, the Democrats would have done worse. This absurd hypothetical is getting harder by the day for party defenders to swallow, however.


  140. p Says:

    Comment by trueblue — August 10, 2007 @ 7:48 pm

    Zo zo was here earlier today.


  141. Spudge_Boy Says:

    You’ve served our country…shouldn’t you know this?

    Comment by CT_Version 2 — August 10, 2007 @ 7:48 pm

    I have served and it is exactly why I know this.

    upside00,

    Things have changed since Vietnam.


  142. trueblue Says:

    TP (Troll Patrol)

    Rupert is proud of what has become of TP, so I say congratulations to Mr. Dog, P, pp, ppp, Mr. P. PPB, CT, and all the other 29%er’s for your successful takeover of this site, you have proven that the right still has the fight to take it to the enemy. (sarcasm off)

    Comment by I’m Out

    I hear you.

    Like I said to Spudge_Boy, most of us are outta here.

    Care to join us?


  143. Spudge_Boy Says:

    trueblue,

    I do have your e-mail. I will drop you a line so we can triangulate on a better position. Think Progress has allowed their site to be over run by trolls.

    I would love to have some real republicans we could debate with, instead of these children.

    Talk to you soon.


  144. ClockworkOrange Says:

    i just started reading the comments, attempting to cut to the chase. instead, there’s taunting crap from those like “Ringo”. must be Lorne Greene’s saddlemate. anyway… can we ignore those types with no life and playing with themselves online? this news was an inspiring bit of cut-the-crap, which we should demand of our representatives.

    thank you.


  145. Arn Gunnutes Says:

    And, yup, Bush IS a WAR CRIMINAL.

    And a TRAITOR coxucker PUNK to the USA of the WORST kind, like Libby.

    And a BLASPHEMER and MURDERER who does NOT follow the Word of Jesus Christ, his “favorite philosopher”.

    His ACTIONS have spoken VOLUMES LOUDER than his forked-tongue WORDS…


  146. VerbalKint Says:

    #136 Next time, idiot, try providing something resembling proof.


  147. p Says:

    Typical, when the Lefties lose, they run away crying foul…


  148. gorn by any other name Says:

    “No, it true.” - p brain

    Let’s assume you aren’t joking.

    What you are saying is: because we disagree with your premise about Iraq, therefore we hope that America fails.

    That’s like saying “Worship Allah, or you will burn in hell”. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. A logical leap, without external validity, is required.

    Your proposition makes no sense logically.

    Again, assuming you’re serious, I don’t think you want America to fail. Rather, I think you are just badly confused about reality. Your assumption that “we” want America to fail is crazy, and/or intended only to inflame.

    Crack open the brain seal, and you might be able to grok the notion that we want America to succeed and believe that success impossible following the current political path. That’s a very different thing from “wanting America to fail”.

    Listening? ** crickets **


  149. flo B Says:

    We don’t want to occupy Iraq………

    We ARE occupying Iraq pee brain……..oh and we DID win. We won the Iraqi’s the right to have a hellacious religious civil war. Isn’t Halliburton an OIL services company?


  150. Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Says:

    Sure, the bush cultists are taking over this thread. Funny, but when the subject was Bush not supporting educational benefits for veterans, none of them showed up.


  151. Ringo Says:

    Hey, Spudge_Boy.

    If you haven’t noticed, a bunch of us (Zooey, BnF, TMM, JPark just last night) have decided that the trolls own TP and we should go elsewhere.

    Comment by trueblue
    ———————————————————————————————-

    Ahh….Mission accomplished!

    Mr. Rove should provide me with a big bonu$ after I email him this thread.

    ‘nite crazies.


  152. p Says:

    #136 Next time, idiot, try providing something resembling proof.

    Comment by VerbalKint — August 10, 2007 @ 7:53 pm

    ok.

    And, yup, Bush IS a WAR CRIMINAL.

    And a TRAITOR coxucker PUNK to the USA of the WORST kind, like Libby.

    And a BLASPHEMER and MURDERER who does NOT follow the Word of Jesus Christ, his “favorite philosopher”.

    His ACTIONS have spoken VOLUMES LOUDER than his forked-tongue WORDS…

    Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 10, 2007 @ 7:53 pm


  153. Spudge_Boy Says:

    Most of the Democrats that I know are nice people - unhappy, but nice.

    Comment by Ringo — August 10, 2007 @ 7:41 pm

    Then why do you feel the need to come onto this blog and act like an a$$hole?

    Oh never mind. I don’t give a flying fu*k what you think.


  154. Arn Gunnutes Says:

    I LOVE America and WANT it to SUCCEED.

    And George W. Bush is a TRAITOR who needs to DROP DEAD and go to hell, where he belongs…

    For the record…


  155. Spudge_Boy Says:

    ‘nite crazies.

    Comment by Ringo — August 10, 2007 @ 7:54 pm

    We know you aren’t going anywhere you crazy fu*k.


  156. I'm Out Says:

    Dont mind if I do Trublue. BTW I’m still Tired Of Fighting. Regardless of the censoring by TP.


  157. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Comment by trueblue — August 10, 2007 @ 7:51 pm

    Could I be the troll representative in your new chat house? You know, just to be representin’.


  158. beavis Says:

    #138

    “p”

    In my own words … (from #98)

    … So one *** positive achievement *** of the “surge” *** (lower U.S. combat casualties) *** …

    Now - “p” - take your bullsh#t - put it in your bowl, and eat it.

    When you are done - read the advice that the military had for this administraion prior to the war.
    ——
    Conclusion #6 From the U.S. Army War College Feb. 2003 Report

    “An exit strategy will require the establishment of political stability, which will be difficult to achieve given:

    Iraq’s fragmented population

    Weak political institutions

    and

    Propensity for rule by violence.

    ———-

    Wars are difficult, if not impossible, to win when good strategic advice is ignored. It leads to failure.

    Bush ignored this good advice and a lot more like it.

    Why did Bush - by ignoring sound military advice - want America to fail?

    Why?


  159. GSD Says:

    Breaking News:

    GOPervert from Indiana blows a sleeping fellow Republican.

    His defense is the party is trying new forms of voter outreach.

    -GSD


  160. trueblue Says:

    Dont mind if I do Trublue. BTW I’m still Tired Of Fighting. Regardless of the censoring by TP.

    Comment by I’m Out

    OK, great.

    Looks like I’m going to have to post my email address.
    UGH! ;)

    I have a spam blocker, so forget trying to email me, all you nasty trolls.

    I’m out, may I ask your real screen name?


  161. gorn by any other name Says:

    “If you haven’t noticed, a bunch of us (Zooey, BnF, TMM, JPark just last night) have decided that the trolls own TP and we should go elsewhere.

    I definately want to extend the invitation to you.” - trueblue

    Hey, don’t leave me here all alone!!!

    Post where you’re going…


  162. p Says:

    A logical leap, without external validity, is required.

    I’m a Quinean/Humean Empiricist. That leap is required for every instance of logical deduction. However, it is not possible to validate an instance of deduction with another instance of deduction, so the validation that is required can never be provided.

    That’s why you have to have faith!


  163. I'm Out Says:

    It was Tired OF Fighting


  164. CT_Version 2 Says:

    Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 10, 2007 @ 7:54 pm

    There are certainly troops who’ve died in Iraq while serving in the Navy/Air Force. And a number of Air Force/Navy personell have been directed to serve on the ground, have they not? Multi-tasking?


  165. Arn Gunnutes Says:

    #136 Next time, idiot, try providing something resembling proof.

    Comment by VerbalKint — August 10, 2007 @ 7:53 pm

    ok.

    And, yup, Bush IS a WAR CRIMINAL.

    And a TRAITOR coxucker PUNK to the USA of the WORST kind, like Libby.

    And a BLASPHEMER and MURDERER who does NOT follow the Word of Jesus Christ, his “favorite philosopher”.

    His ACTIONS have spoken VOLUMES LOUDER than his forked-tongue WORDS…

    Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 10, 2007 @ 7:53 pm

    Comment by p

    Yeah, the TRUTH hurts you RIGHTWING NUTJOBS.

    That’s why TRAITOR Bush has to be SHELTERED from the TRUTH that he is the most REVILED and DESPISED “human being” in the WORLD,

    and the crowds have to sign LOYALTY OATHS before being admitted.

    The PROOF is EASY:

    Clinton can go ANYWHERE in the world and the people LOVE him and want to BE with him.

    Bush can’t go ANYWHERE without an ARMORED CONTINGENT.

    Because the WORLD knows he is a SCUMBAG and a MURDERER.

    REAL PROOF!!


  166. p Says:

    we DID win - flo B
    -

    Well, partially, but there is still more to be done.


  167. DrBB Says:

    We’ll be fighting Islamists for decades - maybe a generation - and in the end we still may not succeed.

    The US will survive but much of the rest of the world will not.

    Aw, you’re so beautiful when you salivate.


  168. p Says:

    Geez… the Dems want to escape from reality so much that they are starting a secret club!!!

    Too Funny!!!

    CT, they’ll be back. I promise you that!


  169. trueblue Says:

    gorn, tired of fighting,

    My email is cforrest@capecod.net
    Put trueblue in the subject.

    It WILL be spammed, but I’ll check them and let you 2 through. Don’t bother filling out the form that will be sent to you.

    Trolls, don’t even think about it. I won’t let you through.


  170. beavis Says:

    You are pretty far removed from reality yourself, “p” …


  171. Arthur C. Says:

    CT, they’ll be