Mugabe cites U.S. program to justify wiretapping law.
Mugabe cites U.S. program to justify wiretapping law.
Yesterday, Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe “signed into law the controversial Interception of Communications Bill, which gives his government the authority to eavesdrop on phone and Internet communications and read physical mail.” In order to defend the law, which has been called “the dictator’s tool kit,” Mugabe’s spokesperson pointed to President Bush’s wiretapping program:
Human rights lawyer Otto Saki told VOA that the law interferes and undermines the enjoyment of rights enshrined in the constitution and is a sign Mr. Mugabe wants to consolidate his power by “any means necessary or unnecessary.”
But Communications Minister Christopher Mushowe said Zimbabwe is not unique in the world in passing such legislation, citing electronic eavesdropping programs in the United States, the United Kingdom and South Africa, among other countries.
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Fantastic.
The United States of America.
Serving as a model of totalitarianism to repressive nations around the world.
Heck of a job, Chimpy.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:40 pmHow do you “wiretap” two tin cans connected by a string?
August 11th, 2007 at 10:42 pmThe major difference is that the the United States is a major target for international terror.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
And that justifies spying on American citizens how? Because you are willing to sacrifice your freedom in the mistaken belief that your safety from terrorism will be increased?
August 11th, 2007 at 10:50 pmAnd that justifies spying on American citizens how? Because you are willing to sacrifice your freedom in the mistaken belief that your safety from terrorism will be increased?
Comment by VerbalKint
Worst case scenario is that we will get it reversed in 09. Best case maybe in mid 08. But we WILL get our country back!!
August 11th, 2007 at 10:55 pmThe major difference is that the the United States is a major target for international terror.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
Really, I count 3 attacks on our nations soil in recent times.
1> WTC
2> WTC
3> Anthrax
Hardly justifiable in my opinion.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:56 pmHardly justifiable in my opinion.
Comment by George W. Hitler — August 11, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
Well, it seems justified if you are an ignorant, fearful bedwetter. It is people like PJN who are handing victory to the terrorists.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:58 pmComment by upside00 — August 11, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
I agree. One way or another, we will get it back — and tie up a few loopholes in the checks and balances.
August 11th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI hate the context in which all of this surveilance stuff is happening but is it possible that increased activity will increase awareness, investigation, and evaluation it is causing will help control it?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:11 pmdictators of the world unite!
August 11th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWhat’s a “legitimate need”?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:14 pmIt’s subjective. He finds wiretapping legitimate. He finds lots of acts legitimate. He is a tyrant and a despot.
I’m shocked the country hasn’t blown up these past couple years. It’s absolutely frightening what’s going on there. Thankfully, he won’t be in office much longer.
This is rediculous. I gaurantee nobody on here has experienced a personal loss of constitutional freedoms as a result of Bush’s wiretapping program, which the Democrats in congress just passed. Just because a nut in Africa thinks the two programs are comparable doesn’t mean you have to. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:14 pm9: We do not have a legitimate need to shred the 4th Amendment, because we are so paranoid.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:15 pmQuick, look under your bed, islamofascists.
I hate the context in which all of this surveilance stuff is happening but is it possible that increased activity will increase awareness, investigation, and evaluation it is causing will help control it?
Comment by dbadass — August 11, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
That made no sense.
In short I ment that sometimes bad stuff helps awaken the sleeping
August 11th, 2007 at 11:15 pmPJN sez:
Tell us, PJN: exactly how many “terrorist incidents” have been thwarted thanks to the warrantless wiretap program?
For extra credit, how many of those wiretaps could have been executed with FISA warrants?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:17 pmYou’ll guarantee, Mike? Great! How?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:17 pmLiberalism is a mental disorder.
No, liberalism is a political philosophy. Blowhardism is a mental disorder… that mean you, doughbrain.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:19 pm13 Michael Weiner – you are the one who is REDiculous – don’t be a fool, stay in school.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:19 pm“Comment by Michael Savage, PhD — August 11, 2007 @ 11:14 pm”
Awesome…
When can I expect to see the Secret NSA list, so I can validate that my name is in fact not on the list???
Unless YOU can provide that, then YOU cannot guarantee ANYTHING!
August 11th, 2007 at 11:25 pmI gaurantee nobody on here has experienced a personal loss of constitutional freedoms as a result of Bush’s wiretapping program
Comment by Michael Savage, PhD — August 11, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
How on earth can you possibly guarantee that? Are you a FISA court judge? Wait, I forgot, FISA judges are bypassed these days. Are you head spook at the NSA? What is your security clearance and from where do you get your information?
PhD my ass, Michael. I have a PhD and I don’t know a single PhD who would make such a stupid, empty “guarantee”.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:29 pmthey still have phones in Zimbabwe ?
That the least of there problems, starvation, anarchy, and abject poverty had made the country from a breadbasket to a basketcase. its just mear reheotric to justify the dictorial powers.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:30 pmSimilar to Orwell’s “groupthink,” the Law of Unintended Consequences should be renamed “Bushlaw.”
August 11th, 2007 at 11:31 pmMichael Savage, PhD, I suggest you read comments 17, 20, and 21, then consider whether you want to stick around here any longer.
VerbalKint, PhD
August 11th, 2007 at 11:33 pmThis is rediculous. I gaurantee nobody on here has experienced a personal loss of constitutional freedoms as a result of Bush’s wiretapping program, which the Democrats in congress just passed. Just because a nut in Africa thinks the two programs are comparable doesn’t mean you have to. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Comment by Michael Savage, PhD — August 11, 2007 @ 11:14 p
Sorry you’re wrong, we’ve all lost freedoms. We’ve lost the 4th Amendment. You know the one against unreasonable searches.
Oh and don’t give me that “if you have nothing to hide” line, unless you’re willing to keep repeating that next time Congress subpoenas someone with the big R next to their name.
Interesting google search of Zimbabwean terror came up with:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article2621831.ece
Appears Mugabe likes to terrorize his own people. Gee maybe it’s Cheneys long lost twin brother.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pmbarfly,
Groupthink is real —
What is Groupthink?
Groupthink, a term coined by social psychologist Irving Janis (1972), occurs when a group makes faulty decisions because group pressures lead to a deterioration of “mental efficiency, reality testing, and moral judgment†(p. 9). Groups affected by groupthink ignore alternatives and tend to take irrational actions that dehumanize other groups. A group is especially vulnerable to groupthink when its members are similar in background, when the group is insulated from outside opinions, and when there are no clear rules for decision making.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:35 pmThe spying bill violates the US Constitution. This bill will get stuck in the courts and will be overturned because it violates the 4th Amendment.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:39 pmMy apologies, Rose.
But the term “Bushlaw” does indeed fit as an alternate definition of the Law of Unintended Consequences.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:40 pmComment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
George W. Bush was handed evidence of an impending terror attack on August 6, 2001, and he completely ignored it.
What makes you think he’ll start paying attention now?
August 11th, 2007 at 11:41 pmAs I recall the moonbats had the same moral equivilency problems during the Cold War. Some things never change unless they are calling for for the overthrow of Comrade Bob.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:43 pmComment by barfly — August 11, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
My apologies, barfly. I realize now that I completely mis-read your comment.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:44 pmRobert Mugabe left out Israel. Serious ommission since they are spying on their own citizens as well as ours.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:45 pm“Some things never change unless they are calling for for the overthrow of Comrade Bob.”
Comment by Frank J
Naming you polyps now, Frank? You might view chemo as an “overthrow,” of your little budding buddies, but trust me; it’s for your own good.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:48 pmhttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/wonkydonkey/VLeaderspeaking.jpg
TPs New Logo
August 11th, 2007 at 11:49 pmComment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Pure speculation.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:50 pmBush’s idea of protecting Americans from terrorism is to spy on them without warrants. In doing so he has done away with Habeas Corpus and the Bill of Rights.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:52 pm“In fact, I would say he has taken the initiative and gone on the offensive in order to prevent another attack.”
And, if in the course of “fighting terrorism” they happen to garner a little “oppo” info on their political opponents, it’s all gravy.
J. Edgar must be stiff in his grave – and not from rigor mortis.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:53 pm#
16: You can not reason that an absence of terror attacks means that the program is unnecessary. The reason we have FISA and the NSA is, in fact, to “thwart†terrorism. Of course I can not tell you what “might have happened†if the program had not existed, let alone give you an exact number. But our wiretap program is for gathering various al-Quada and other terrorism related intel., so that we can take pre-emptive strikes if need be, it is not limited to “thwarting†incidents.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
Since we’re talking about useless “homeland security”, the reason we have nukes is to stop people from nuking us, so maybe we can just sell some of our nukes, you know since they don’t seem to be protecting us. Aren’t you pissed off now that our govt spent billions on a deterrent that’s not doing us any good? I mean with all the right wing pundints saying we need to attack Iran and all, cuz in 5+ years they might have their first nuke. Hell in 10 years one of our submarines would still have more nukes than Iran.
You’re a fool. Hitler told his people giving up their rights, was the right thing to do too. and WWII was a major war. Ours is a small number of extremists, who hate our extremist administration.
And you know listening to all those phone calls, data mining means hiring bigger govt, or private “for profit” corporations, spending more of your tax dollars on worthless programs that would likely not stop any one, you know with the borders wide open and all, and port security still not increased.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:54 pmRose, that sounds like the perfect description of a Bush supporter!
August 11th, 2007 at 11:55 pmmoral equivilency problems during the Cold War. Some things never change unless they are calling for for the overthrow of Comrade Bob.
Comment by Frank J — August 11, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
Like those right wing whackos in congress who wanted you to testify against friends who we’re not even communist? And in a country that basically allowed the KKK to terrorize thousands of innocent black US citizens.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:58 pmGeorge W. Hitler: Homeland Security is certainly not “useless.†And Iran is funding insurgents in Iraq.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Yah so is the USA!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/06/iraq.weapons/index.html
August 11th, 2007 at 11:59 pm16: You can not reason that an absence of terror attacks means that the program is unnecessary. The reason we have FISA and the NSA is, in fact, to “thwart†terrorism. Of course I can not tell you what “might have happened†if the program had not existed, let alone give you an exact number. But our wiretap program is for gathering various al-Quada and other terrorism related intel., so that we can take pre-emptive strikes if need be, it is not limited to “thwarting†incidents.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
Where talking about domestic spying without a court order.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:59 pmComrade Bob is a totalitarian thug who knows the MSM will parrot any idiocy he puts forth.
Because Bush isn’t spying on Americans. What he is doing with Congressional and Judicial approval is finding out what overseas Al Qaeda cells Dick Turban is talking with.
August 11th, 2007 at 11:59 pmoverseas Al Qaeda cells Dick Turban is talking with.
Comment by Frank J — August 11, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
I think you meant Dick Cheney.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:00 amThe way to determine if we are “safer” now is, do we have more terrorists now, as a result of the illegal occupation of a sovereign country?
Yes we do, in spades. Bush and his cabal have spread terrorism like a cancer across the world with their foolish, myopic, arrogant agenda.
His followers all seem to be poorly educated. They can’t spell either.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:01 amComment by Frank J — August 11, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
Frank, I don’t it looks too good for a Bush supporter to be talking about moral equivalency.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:01 am“Because Bush isn’t spying on Americans. What he is doing with Congressional and Judicial approval is finding out what overseas Al Qaeda cells Dick Turban is talking with.
Comment by Frank J — August 11, 2007 @ 11:59 pm”
Really???
Where is your proof????
If this was the case, then most of the DOJ and many of the Directors of the Spy organizations would not have THREATENED to quit……
Provide the PROOF to what you say, since YOU seem to know difinitevely that he is taking care for your RIGHTS…..
Show me the documentation that proves what you say!!!!
Explain why Bush would need to setup “Secret” spy rooms only 2 weeks after getting into office if it was to protect us, when just the opposite happened.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:04 am#46 – Where = We’re
August 12th, 2007 at 12:05 am“President Bush and Adolf Hitler are nothing alike
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:01 am”
Actually, they are EXACTLY alike!!!!
I can list what Hitler done, and what Bush has done side by side without listing who done it and you would not be able to tell them apart…….
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 am“The only point I am trying to make is that Mugabe does not have a need for surveillance like we do in the United States. This would be true even if we had not been attacked, we are a bigger target of international terror.”
We’re talking about a situation in which a ruler failed to anticipate a terrorist attack (even though he was fully informed of the situation by the outgoing president), and then justified his dictatorial actions on a perceived lack of security. At this late date, only a died-in-the-wool partisan would look for possible excuses for this incompetent method of governance. If we are a bigger target for terrorists, it’s because of Bush’s somnolence.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 amIf Dick Turban can call American Armed Forces Nazis then I guess it is okay for these moonbats to call Bush, Hitler. Idiotic? Of course.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 amFrank J doesn’t need proof. He is fully armed with talking points.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:06 amGeorge W. Hitler: The name you have chosen for this blog is highly offensive. President Bush and Adolf Hitler are nothing alike, and by saying so alone shows that you are willing to sling-mud like Bill O’Reilly or Ann Coulter. They call the Liberals “Godless†and “NAZIs†and I’m sure you don’t appreciate that. But here you are doing the exact same thing.
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:01 am
It’s a free country isn’t it?
And how about a few comparisons…
Hitler said it was okay to spy on his citizens.
Hitler and bush both started a war based on a lie.
Hitler blamed the Jews, Bush blames Islam.
Hitler fired any general who disagreed, so does Bush. (Both have led to losing the war)
Hitler was “okay” with torture, So is Bush.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:07 amOpps….
“only 2 weeks ”
Should read “only 3 weeks “….
August 12th, 2007 at 12:07 am#58 We are in the same thread as a true fool. Impressive. And your lack of knowledge of not only the law but history is truly tinfoil hat material.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:10 am“Impressive. And your lack of knowledge of not only the law but history is truly tinfoil hat material.”
Comment by Frank J
Coming from a history-illiterate conservative, it must be a compliment!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:11 amComment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:01 am
Are you just as offended when the leading republican mouth pieces say Osama-Obama, or talk about Obama’s middle name? I blame Rush and fox for the nastiness of our public discourse.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:12 amIf Dick Turban can call American Armed Forces Nazis then I guess it is okay for these moonbats to call Bush, Hitler. Idiotic? Of course.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:06 am
He was calling the Bush administration a bunch of Nazis because they were the ones who sanctioned the type of behavior described in the FBI report Durbin read aloud.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:12 am“I’m Jewish so don’t you dare tell me that George W. Bush was anything like Hitler.”
And this is the Internet, where bogus claims of victimhood are seen for what they are: intellectual cowardice, on a grand scale.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:14 am#58: Hitler didn’t just blame the Jews, he exterminated them! Bush is not blaming Islam, he is going after terrorism!
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:12 am
Then why would he invade Iraq?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:14 am“I’m Jewish so don’t you dare tell me that George W. Bush was anything like Hitler. If he was my family would have left the country along with millions of other Jews. The comparison is sick and wrong!
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:10 am”
Well then when will you be leaving???
-Bush Allowed an attack on US Soil.
-Falsified information to start an illegal war
-Killed over 650,000 Iraqis
-Spied on his own people
-Torchered his own people
-denied them Habeas
These are ALL the same things Hitler did!!!!
How is he NOT like Hitler?????
Provide something with SUBSTANCE, not just ranting that “he is not Hitler because I am Jewish”.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:15 amBush is, of course, not Hitler, and our troops, of course are not Naziz, and people,of course, are not moonbats.
Could we have some discussions without all the pundit behavior?
After all thats why I stopped watching the TV.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:15 amI’m Jewish so don’t you dare tell me that George W. Bush was anything like Hitler.
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:10 am
There are some comparisons to be made between the two.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:16 amPJN sez:
Actually, yes, I can. That is exactly what I am reasoning.
Then why can’t Chimpy use the tools he already possessed? Why the need for a warrantless surveillance program is the FISA structure was suffucuent?
That’s not what I asked you, sunshine. Scroll up.
You still haven’t answered the questions. I look forward to your answers…assuming you have the intellectual honesty to actually supply answers…
August 12th, 2007 at 12:16 amAnd anticipating those who would brand me anti-semite, I refer to you in particular, PJN and not real victims of the holocaust.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:17 amIf we are a bigger target for terrorists, it’s because of Bush’s somnolence.
Comment by barfly — August 12, 2007 @ 12:06 am
Which is all part of the plan, gotta keep those Military Industrial Contracts going, which as we look at USSR, was a major cause of it’s downfall, not spending money on things like education, and with not many countries willing, or able to do business with them. Russia finally collapsed, and went more democratic, and America is slowly becoming a fascist controlled state. As we’ve heard from recent congressional people who want to enact a law that any dissent could be seen as traitorous.
This is where America is headed, we don’t make anything any more, our education system is in shambles. Our money is based on what? There hasn’t been an audit of Fort Knox in years. It could be empty.
Never ending war was the plan all along, and trying to steal the oil. Luckily for the Iraqi people if they’re ever going to see true freedom, it will only be when they control the oil. Which is why the liberals have been right for 20 years, lets get to clean energy now. It’s good for America. And take the damn corporate profit out of my energy bill, this would save America enough to pay for healthcare for all. The rest can stay capitalistic. But my basic services should not be “for profit”.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:19 amLots of similarities between Hitler and Bush. Secret prisons, torture, rendition, holding people without Habeus Corpus to name a few.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247321/a_comparison_of_george_bush_and_adlof.html
August 12th, 2007 at 12:19 amI’m Jewish so don’t you dare tell me that George W. Bush was anything like Hitler. If he was my family would have left the country along with millions of other Jews. The comparison is sick and wrong!
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:10 am
i don’t if you (or your family) are jewish but you are a troll.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:22 amPJN sez:
Coward. Way to run off before giving honest answers to my questions.
Not that we expected any better of you…
August 12th, 2007 at 12:22 am“I said if Bush was like Hitler, I would not be here today. Anyone who is Jewish knows that.”
Comment by PJN
This presupposes that Hitler-like behavior can only directed at Jews – but it seems some are blind to this behavior, if it isn’t directed specifically at Jews.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:23 am69 “Well then when will you be leaving???â€
Well, I am leaving this website for good right now, thanks a lot!
Comment by PJN — August 12, 2007 @ 12:21 am
you’ll be back.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:23 amComparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler shows a severe case of BDS and makes whatever point you are trying to make a farce.
But as far as civil liberties go. Those of you who care about civil liberties had better be thinking about how we win this war before the casualties get so great that the American people voluntarily give up a lot of those liberties.
With Republicans in charge, that will not happen. Remember, the only president to set up internment camps for civilian citizens was Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat. I’ve been around long enough to realize those who preach the most about their liberty are the ones who lust most to take mine
August 12th, 2007 at 12:26 amNaturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
-Herman Goering, Nazi. Second in Command of the Third Reich
August 12th, 2007 at 12:27 amHe was also Commander-in-Chief of Forschungsamt (“FAâ€), the Nazi underground monitoring services for telephone and radio communications.
We were attacked, five times.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:30 am“I said if Bush was like Hitler, I would not be here today. Anyone who is Jewish knows that.â€
Comment by PJN
August 12th, 2007 at 12:33 amBush is like Hitler with the exception it is not the Jewish he is after but the have lesses.
With Republicans in charge, that will not happen. Remember, the only president to set up internment camps for civilian citizens was Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat. I’ve been around long enough to realize those who preach the most about their liberty are the ones who lust most to take mine
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Yes it was FDR, but probably by a republican general that suggested we need to do it for security. (since you republicans like to have dominance of the military) and a very bad time in our history. America has done some very bad things in the way it’s treated people. Japanese, Indians, Blacks, women. And see one thing that’s different from us liberals and you neocons, is we learn from our history.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:34 amIf we do not want to compare G. W. Bush to Hitler, there are other apt examples. Let’s start with:
August 12th, 2007 at 12:37 amSatan
Nero
Attila the Hun
Genghis Khan
Vlad the Impaler
Cortez
Stalin
Edi Amin
We were attacked, five times.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:30 am
We were attack in 1993 (six weeks into Clinton’s presidency) and then again in 2001 (eight months into Bush’s presidency).
August 12th, 2007 at 12:37 amStill waiting, PJN…
Of course, no one will think less of you if you decide to continue ducking me…
…actually, everyone will think less of you…but such things probably don’t make much difference to you, do they? After all, if you have no honor to begin with, a loss of the same won’t mean too much, right?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:39 am“With Republicans in charge, that will not happen. Remember, the only president to set up internment camps for civilian citizens was Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat. I’ve been around long enough to realize those who preach the most about their liberty are the ones who lust most to take mine
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:26 am”
Really????
Is that why KBR has been building those Camps all around America??????????
They are ready and just waiting to throw people into them….
Keep on WISHING!!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 12:42 amAfrican embassies, Kobar Towers, USS Cole.
The left doesn’t learn from history because they continue to want to appease our enemies a method that has failed multiple times in the past.
FDR locked up Japanese Americans something Hitler wouldn’t have done, he would have killed them. So I guess FDR is not like Hitler.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:42 amSatan
Nero
Attila the Hun
Genghis Khan
Vlad the Impaler
Cortez
Stalin
Edi Amin
Comment by WaltTheMan — August 12, 2007 @ 12:37 am
If you’re into mythology, you can compare him to the God of War, Ares.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:42 amThe location of these “camps”?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 amThe only point I am trying to make is that Mugabe does not have a need for surveillance like we do in the United States. This would be true even if we had not been attacked, we are a bigger target of international terror.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
So you just have a problem with that pesky Fourth Amendment, in general.
How about the othr Amendments? Any of those botheing you?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:43 amFISA doesn’t violate the 4th Amendment. Rose I’m sure supports the tenth.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:44 amComment by Nat — August 12, 2007 @ 12:42 am
I considered that, but actually forgot:
August 12th, 2007 at 12:45 amSaddam Hussien
African embassies, Kobar Towers, USS Cole.
That’s like saying why Bush isn’t stopping the attacks on American troops in Iraq.
The left doesn’t learn from history because they continue to want to appease our enemies a method that has failed multiple times in the past.
No, you’re just being a coward.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:46 am“We were attacked, five times.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:30 am”
FIVE????
If your talking about the USS Cole, WTC 1993, and 2001 then let’s just break that down….
The 1993 WTC attack occured JUST MONTHS after Clinton took office, but he CAPTURED and TRIED all of the people found in the US to be a party to the crime.
The USS Cole attack came at the last months of Clinton’s term and refused to attack without the CIA validating that it was OBL. It was confirmed after Bush took office, but Bush did NOTHING!!!!
Then 2001, Bush received warnings from over 20 countries and received an August PDB, yet did NOTHING……
And you want us to give him more power and trust anything that comes out of his lying mouth??
August 12th, 2007 at 12:47 amJohn Kerry knows all about Genghis Khan.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:47 amAfrican embassies, Kobar Towers, USS Cole.
The left doesn’t learn from history because they continue to want to appease our enemies a method that has failed multiple times in the past.
FDR locked up Japanese Americans something Hitler wouldn’t have done, he would have killed them. So I guess FDR is not like Hitler.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:42 am
Ahh you make it too easy.. Bushes plan of bombing the crap out of Iraq and Afghanistan has created more terrorists, than say a liberal who would have built schools, hospitals, dug wells, provide farming equipment instead of AK47’s. You know actually showed them America does care about the world. You don’t kill ants in your kitchen with gasoline do you? Or swat a bee’s nest because you got stung?
Still hung up about FDR huh? How far back shall we go into American history to bring up mistakes? Grow up Frank, learn, stop blaming someone who’s not even alive. Tell ya what when Bush is no longer president, I’ll drop the GWH moniker. Or if he catches OBL alive.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:52 amClinton did such a great job in fighting the Islamists he had to send his old NSA to the National Archives to steal documents.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:52 amThis from the guy who wants to go back to Hitler.
The left doesn’t want to build hospitals or anything else. They simply want to hide and hope that the Islamists leave us alone. The 1990s show that policy failed.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:54 amWith Republicans in charge, that will not happen. Remember, the only president to set up internment camps for civilian citizens was Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat.
A shameful period in our history that should never be repeated.
I’ve been around long enough to realize those who preach the most about their liberty are the ones who lust most to take mine
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:26 am
The republicans are the ones trying to take away your liberties and because you’re such a coward, you allow them to do it.
August 12th, 2007 at 12:54 amClinton did such a great job in fighting the Islamists he had to send his old NSA to the National Archives to steal documents.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:52 am
What did the documents say?
August 12th, 2007 at 12:56 amThis sentence does not make sense.
Comment by P — August 12, 2007 @ 1:04 am
It makes sense to anyone who believes in the Constitution.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:08 amSetting an example for dictators and fascists worldwide!
August 12th, 2007 at 1:09 amThe left doesn’t want to build hospitals or anything else. They simply want to hide and hope that the Islamists leave us alone. The 1990s show that policy failed.
Comment by Frank J — August 12, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Really Frank, I hope you know we’re doing what I mentioned now in Africa. Sadly we’re not doing it all over the world on a much larger scale, trust me Frank, there will always be extremists on all political and religious boundaries. The worlds best hope is to show them (the ones who don’t hate us now) that we care, thus not creating more terrorist recruits who see a bunch of obese Americans, while they eat once a week, and have no clean water, and no job, no money, no hope. (and you don’t destroy a country, and promise you’re going to help rebuild it)
For what this war has cost us, we could have dug thousands of wells, provided thousands of tractors, helped build other countries basic needs, educated their brightest for free if they would return to their country and take care of their people. As well as secured our borders, secured our ports, taught our children, provided good paying jobs at home.
You really are a fool to think the world is full of such evil, when it’s only a few handfuls of people, one of which is running this country.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:10 amPeople like Frank, who are so blinded against anyone that is not a Christian or believes differently than him are some of the real terrorists in this world. All wars throughout history have been caused by combinations of ignorance, greed, lies or desire for power.
And the occupation of Iraq is just another piece of evidence supporting that fact.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:18 amthat’s right folks,
Robert Mugabe says “I learned it by watching you”
the problem with ACTING like you’re the International Dickhouse is that at some point, you will be held accountable.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:22 amAll wars throughout history have been caused by combinations of ignorance, greed, lies or desire for power.
And the occupation of Iraq is just another piece of evidence supporting that fact.
Comment by upside00 — August 12, 2007 @ 1:18 am
GREED? You mean like these people have some interest in Iraq’s oil?
Vice president, Dick Cheney, came from Halliburton Oil. Donald Rumsfeld, the chief of the Pentagon, came from Occidental, another oil company. Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Advisor, was on Chevron’s board of directors and has oil tankers named after her. Gale Norton, the Security of the Interior, is linked to the oil industry. Bush Sr. is with the Carlyle group and Bush Jr. is with Harkins Oil.
Gee I thought we were there for WMD.. *COUGH*
August 12th, 2007 at 1:28 amthe problem with ACTING like you’re the International Dickhouse is that at some point, you will be held accountable.
Comment by a in pa
True, but I travel outside the US a lot and most people I talk to now know that it is a small number of the US that is to blame for BushCo and they also know that the majority of the US citizens will make it right in 08 and will even forgive the a$$hats that let this slime ooze around the WH for the past 6 1/2 years.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:30 amComment by George W. Hitler — August 12, 2007 @ 1:28 am
And if course, all the billions in tax breaks the oil companies received had nothing to do with all the K Street money that flowed into the BushCo coffers and election campaigns.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:33 amIf Congress put up a bill making war profiteering illegal wouldn’t this mess be over the next day?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:34 amWhy isn’t war profiteering illegal?
Why isn’t war profiteering illegal?
Comment by had enough — August 12, 2007 @ 1:34 am
It already is a treasonable offense. Just that no one has the balls to go after BushCo. After all, the highest ranking member of the DoJ is……..GONZO, Ball-licker to Dubya and Darth.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:38 amupside00
War profiteering should be a treasonable offense, but since it is so obviously out there how and why can this go on?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:45 amIt already is a treasonable offense. Just that no one has the balls to go after BushCo. After all, the highest ranking member of the DoJ is……..GONZO, Ball-licker to Dubya and Darth.
Comment by upside00 — August 12, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Which also includes our media, which is guilty of this mess we’re in as well. If it were a democrat profiting from stock options in a compan that received no bid contracts, it would news every night until they resigned. When Dick Cheney’s stock in Haliburton goes from $241,498, to 8 million we don’t hear a word.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:46 amWhen Dick Cheney’s stock in Haliburton goes from $241,498, to 8 million we don’t hear a word.
Comment by George W. Hitler
And you won’t, until he is safely ensconced back in Dubai, the new corporate home of Halliburton and where he owns a multi-million dollar condo.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:49 amPJN…
told ya you’d be back.
August 12th, 2007 at 1:51 amHey libtards
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Comment by Sonny White — August 12, 2007 @ 1:26 am
george bush’s hat size
August 12th, 2007 at 1:53 amand your iq, right sonny?
eh?
Iowa Straw Poll Results
Mitt Romney: 4,516 / 31.5%
August 12th, 2007 at 1:58 amMike Huckabee: 2,587 / 18.1%
Sam Brownback: 2,192 / 15.3%
Tom Tancredo: 1,961 / 13.7%
Ron Paul: 1,305 / 9.1%
Tommy Thompson: 1,039 / 7.3%
Fred Thompson: 203 / 1.4%
Rudy Giuliani: 183 / 1.3%
Duncan Hunter: 174 / 1.2%
John McCain: 101 / 1.0%
Comment by joe cantwell — August 12, 2007 @ 1:53 am
This just one of mr p’s periodical meth meltdowns, he goes through them on a more frequent basis now. He is harmless, but good for a few laughs.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:00 amThe ASCII art reminds me of what Rachel used to post.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:01 amComment by Tau — August 12, 2007 @ 1:58 am
thanks tau but you forgot sonny white. wanna know how many votes sonny got? here:
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sonny, eh?
August 12th, 2007 at 2:03 amSo much for setting a good example.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:03 amI’m not Sonny or Mr P. (8^P
I only posted the poll results for information purposes. Frankly I am glad to see Rudy and Thompson not doing so well.
The only one in the list who I think is worth a look is Ron Paul. The Republican field is pretty dismal overall.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:12 amThe only one in the list who I think is worth a look is Ron Paul. The Republican field is pretty dismal overall.
Comment by Tau
And the rover and the Repugs will destroy him pretty soon. He brings up too many points that make them uncomfortable.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:18 amI just love the line: “…Mr. Mugabe wants to consolidate his power by “any means necessary or unnecessary.â€
Reminds you of our der Leader, doesn’t it?
August 12th, 2007 at 2:22 amReminds you of our der Leader, doesn’t it?
Comment by Theresa
Except for Mugabe’s superior intellect and better grasp of the English language.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:24 amIf Congress put up a bill making war profiteering illegal wouldn’t this mess be over the next day?
Why isn’t war profiteering illegal?
Comment by had enough — August 12, 2007 @ 1:34 am
Hah! We’d lose a sizable portion of our Congress, both Dem and Repub, with that one! ;)
August 12th, 2007 at 2:38 amCHENEY/TANCREDO 2008!!!
Comment by Blood-Thirsty Troll
Might pull 20-22% tops. A great ticket, mr. p
Entertaining, as always.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:40 amZimbabwe???? Irrelevant. ;)
August 12th, 2007 at 2:44 am#125 – i could only hope so…. history should serve as a lesson, but it won’t and we’ll probably be having the same conversation in about 30 years.
America friggin’ rules.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:45 am#123 Sonny White-
Nice macro, what’s your baud rate?
Know any good BBS’s? My local one runs on Renegade.
The long distance one has nice ASCII animation.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:51 amComment by a in pa — August 12, 2007 @ 2:45 am
People here in the US are energized They do want change and it will come in HUGE waves in 08. The money alone and the number of grassroots volunteers is larger than anything in history.
The republic party is in full auger-in mode and gaining terminal velocity.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:51 amI am just sorry I couldn’t see that happening, the 20-22% return. But even the republic party isn’t THAT stupid. They have to put up some kind of ticket with a better chance than that one. But you need to get out more, see the real world. WIll do you good, p.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:55 amRepublicans should nominate Cheney at their convention so we can watch him cry during his concession speech on election night.
August 12th, 2007 at 3:28 amdid you hear that? 10,000,000 more mexicans just snuck into California.
Wire tapping? Any of them speak spanish cause we’re being invaded by hostile foreigners that want to take our territory,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GIW-BZ8oLrk
August 12th, 2007 at 3:34 amHello all….it’s been awhile. I see the trolls and lizards have become a problem…..let’s let them be.
Something is happening and I am worried for my people……….will you be who you were born to be or will you buy their propaganda? Will you really fight for your country or will we give up? America, my sweet sister…have we given up?
August 12th, 2007 at 4:03 amGive it up already, Ralph/Pee/Neocon/Etc. Nobody gives a shit what you think or what your opinion is of this blog that you claim to have “turned conservative.”
Take it to Newshounds Forum. Ooops! Except, you can’t! You’ve been banned there! Boo hoo hoo…
August 12th, 2007 at 4:22 am#157, green, as always, don’t feed the trolls. Registration IS coming….
August 12th, 2007 at 4:28 amI will not give up. I have children and grandchildren to fight for……….and more I do not know. I was born in a great country and a few dicks fu(ked it up in a fairly short time. We are better than this. Please all of you great posters — you progressive, caring folks — do not lay down; do not let “them” stop you from what you do so well……..communicate.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:43 amMugabe is a dictator thug who knows that Bush is just like him.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:51 amJay,
I was just having some fun and did a Wik on Mugabe:
The Mugabe administration has been criticized around the world for corruption, suppression of political opposition, mishandling of land reform, economic mismanagement, and deteriorating human rights in Zimbabwe.
Just substiture “Bush administration” for Mugabe administration.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:14 amSo, this seems to all make sense.
Today, we look more and more like a third world country. We certainly have the inarticulate and embarassing president that comes with being one.
August 12th, 2007 at 6:17 amThe United States has lost so much prowess in the last 6 years thanks to the demolition of our constitution that its heartening to see we are again a world leader in something. Heckuva job, Dubya.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:30 amMy name is Austin, i have had several experiences, the most memorable ones i am about to share. First, me, my mom, and my sister, moved to mason in magoffin county kentucky,(the year is the last little bit of 2006, and continues into now) and while we were living there something strange happened. The first couple of weeks were ok, nothing happened, but then i started getting woken up by a deep voice that sounded like it was calling my last name “Slone, Slone, wake up” and i felt someone shaking me, at first i brushed it to the back of my thoughts because i figured i was dreaming or something, but then it began to happen every morning between 3:00 and 3:20. I didn’t really mind the company or anything, i just wish they wouldn’t wake me up so early. It happened until i moved again, (to where i live now) and then a couple of days after getting everything unpacked and set up, it started happening again, it still happens. Then one night on my way back home from my tae kwon do class (my grandma was driving) it was just me and her, and we were talking about my dad, whom died when i was about 4 or 5 years old, and i got to thinking and asked my grandma if “Slone” and “Son” sounded anything alike, and she said they did to her, so im guessing it is my dad telling me everything is all right. It still happens to this day. I really don’t mind now.
August 12th, 2007 at 7:48 amFrank J
A few things:
1: America was only attacked twice. 1993 and in 2001.
The first attack resulted in all of the bombers being caught. Unlike the Republican party, which seems to blame Clinton for everything it does wrong, well the funny thing is, Clinton, who was only in power for just over a month, took responsibility for it himself and set about the nation down.
Contrast this with a jackass who was in power for over 8 months during his attack, who spent the month before attack on holiday, and who would later go on to achieve the most days off of any president, I have to ask: What the crap are smoking that makes it look like a good idea supporting the man.
The other attacks: Under Bush, Britain its first attacks ever, Spain was attacked and abandoned its alliance with America, America’s allies have suffered more attacks then at any time in their history and, ahem, just take a look at those attacks in Iraq by Al Qaeada fighters.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:08 amRepublicans are not like the Nazi Party. They are bloody Bolsheviks, they come here and blame the prior administration for their own failings in echoes directly out of Russia.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:14 amNote: When I say Britain’s first attacks ever: Prior to Bush Britian had never been the victim Islamic terror attacks.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:16 am“The major difference is that the the United States is a major target for international terror.
Comment by PJ”
And Zimbabwe is not? Don’t these terrorists strike against freedom everywhere?
August 12th, 2007 at 8:24 amGomzo is going to Iraq to advise them.
Looks like he’s already been to Zimbabwe to advise Mugabe.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:32 amYo Bruce Gorton. Very good points especially in post number 166. Thanks. I’d forgotten that very important point that Bill actually caught the perps unlike the current resident.
August 12th, 2007 at 8:58 amI’d forgotten that very important point that Bill actually caught the perps unlike the current resident.
Comment by Ben Dover
That’s the difference between having intelligence IN the WH… as well as a President who is a real American, unlike what we have now.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:01 amhttp://www.thinkfrogress.org
ribbit
August 12th, 2007 at 9:05 am#169 – Excuse my ignorance of geopolitical terrorism, but I’m not really familiar with any terrorist attacks in Zimbabwe. Would you please provide some evidence of the frequency of terrorist attacks there? How many planes have slammed into Zimbabwayan buildings in recent years?
And regarding your assertion of freedom in Zimbabwe, Wikipedia has this to say about the country:
During the first decade of independence Mugabe used the North Korean trained Fifth Brigade to silence any opposition from the Ndebele nation in an operation against dissidents referred to as Gukurahundi. Several thousand civilians, mostly Ndebele, were killed or disappeared and have not been accounted for to this date. Allegations of genocide and ethnic cleansing have resulted in calls for Mugabe’s arrest and prosecution for crimes against humanity
Would you care to expand and expound on freedom in Zimbabwe for us?
August 12th, 2007 at 9:16 amYikes lol.
The Democrats did this, don’t you forget it.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:25 amThe major difference is that the the United States is a major target for international terror.
Comment by PJN — August 11, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
So you admit then that Bush is a syphilitic madman who is willing to commit genocide, torture political dissenters, commit massive election fraud and drive his once-prosperous country broke, in the name of maintaining power?
August 12th, 2007 at 9:29 amAnyone who supports Mugabe and his headlong rush to become a surveillance state modeled after the US is a fool.
Anyone who supports the surveillance state that GW Bush is creating is a traitor.
Perhaps these fools are so terrified of the spy state that they post defenses of Bu$hCo. on message boards in the hope that the govt will ignore them when the round up begins. Maybe they know that Echelon keyword scanners are trained on their every phone call, fax, email, net posting, SMS message and now Bu$h has signing statements that give him “permission to open their mail. AND all WITHOUT A WARRANT.
Traitors and fools, rushing as fast as they can toward the destruction of this country.. sad they call us names for trying to point out the crimes against this country which they claim to love so much.
And you can bet your A$$ that the funding and technology for Mugabes little reich-wing experiments are coming directly from the black budget that Bu$hCo has pilfered from the taxpayers of this country. Feel good supporting yet ANOTHER dictatorship in the world??
you trolls call yourselves Americans…
YOU DON’T KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD!!!
August 12th, 2007 at 9:54 amThinkprogress.org’s mission for America: Lose. Lose in any way you can. We will make sure of it. Lose, according to our agenda to “win”.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:47 amIsn’t it wonderful what a shining beacon of democracy we are. It’s so nice to know that we set a good example for the rest of the world. NOT!
August 12th, 2007 at 11:08 amHarry Reid should be proud.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:24 amYou can not reason that an absence of terror attacks means that the program is unnecessary.
Actually, yes, I can. That is exactly what I am reasoning.
Sorry, I was mislead into thinking this was a global war: clearly we don’t give a rats ass about the UK or Spain. Terrorist attacks are up up up because the terrorists have sympathizers, and those who would empower them.
The major difference is that the the United States is a major target for international terror.
Err, so you think that Mugabe who has his fair share of haters (and well he should) isn’t as much of a target as anyone? Have you done any research on this at all? Oh wait, those nasty “facts” and shit: sorry. Heck, if they ain’t Ameridumb they don’t count, right?
August 12th, 2007 at 1:23 pmNIE: Al Qaeda back to original strength since before 9-11. Thus, domestic surveillance program has failed. There is no proof that spying on Americans will prevent attacks.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:20 pmAs a lifelong American potsmoker, I’m thoroughly used to having no civil rights. The Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments do not apply to me and haven’t for as long as I’ve been firing up. Ask any defense lawyer about the “drug war” exemption to the Bill of Rights, he could explain.
Just thought I’d mention this for the benefit of the above posters who want to assure me that life here resembles Zimbabwe in no way.
August 12th, 2007 at 4:27 pmMug-abe means rotten monkey in Danish.
An instant children’s classic along with “My Pet Goat”:
“Chimpy and the Rotten Monkey”.
August 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pmIts funny how americans are so afraid of their government, don’t you know that it should be the other way.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:23 amHave you ever picked up your cell, seeing you missed a call & when you went to listen to the message it dialed & called your home phone#? Have you ever had your work phone conversations interrupted by loud push-button tones that only you could hear, but not the person you were talking to? Have you ever had a Christmas card reach your black friend by Febuary, when you had mailed it in early December?
August 13th, 2007 at 1:54 pmClap clap to the dictator! Just another ploy to oppress his own country. Why doesn’t he just commit genocide and use the Chinese to help him out? I think that he should just start cloning himself into a ZANU-PF.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:56 pm