Gen. Casey: ‘Iraq Will Be A Remarkable Country In A Decade’ If We Stick With Occupation
Gen. Casey: ‘Iraq Will Be A Remarkable Country In A Decade’ If We Stick With Occupation
At an event this afternoon at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Gen. George Casey — the former top commander in Iraq and now the Army chief of staff — declared that Iraq will be a remarkable country “in a decade or so” if we maintain the U.S. occupation.
A questioner asked, “What are the prospects in Iraq and how will this war end?” Casey responded:
Right now, there’s so much residual mistrust left over from the time under Saddam Hussein that they’re not quite ready to go forward. But they have an educated population, they have oil wells, they have water, they have some of the most fertile land I’ve ever seen. In a decade or so, this will be a remarkable country, if we stick with it.
Watch it:
Casey’s comments echo those of the current top commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) disclosed that on her recent visit to Iraq, Petraeus told her that the U.S. “will be in Iraq in some way for 9 or 10 years.”
The military does not have the current resources to maintain a decade-long occupation at or near the current troop levels. Recently, White House “war czar” Gen. Doug Lute suggested that there may be a need to put the military draft on the table.
The claim that Iraq will be a “remarkable country” if we stay belies how the Iraqis feel about the situation. Almost 70 percent of Iraqis say coalition forces make “the security situation worse.” Casey said today that his experience in Iraq suggests “when Iraqis want something to happen….it happens.” What the administration fails to grasp is that the Iraqis want the U.S. out.
Transcript:
QUESTION: What are the prospects in Iraq? And how will this war end?
CASEY: Look, I have always felt that success in Iraq was achievable. It will take patience and it will take will. And the terrorists are out to undermine our will, our national will to prosecute this.
But as complex and as difficult and as confusing as you may find Iraq, it is — we can succeed there. And we will succeed there if we demonstrate patience and will.
We forget sometimes that the Iraqis lived under Saddam Hussein for three and a half decades. They’re not going back there. And I’ve watched them several times over the course of my tenure there. When they want something to happen, like in the first elections and the second elections, it happens.
And right now there’s just so much residual mistrust left over from the time under Saddam Hussein that they’re not quite ready to go forward. But they have an educated population. They have oil wealth. They have water. They have some of the most fertile land that I’ve ever seen. In a decade or so this will be a remarkable country — if we stick with it. It’s imminently doable.
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Iraq will be a remarkable country if we have to kill every single Iraqi to achieve it…..
August 14th, 2007 at 3:02 pmHairball Reid: “Trust the generals”
Guess not, the sensitive libs back here hunched under their sinks obviously know better.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:03 pmIraq will be a remarkable country, after all it will be the downfall on the US empire
August 14th, 2007 at 3:03 pmIraq will be a remarkable country, while they have a million dollars each in Oil money to rebuild better than the US
August 14th, 2007 at 3:04 pmIraq will be a remarkable country after we occupy it for 300 years. sarcasm
August 14th, 2007 at 3:05 pmIraq will be a remarkable country , when the occupation leaves with its tail between it legs
August 14th, 2007 at 3:05 pmUmm, General, that educated population of Iraq is fleeing in droves. They ain’t dumb, yanno?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:06 pmIn other words:
Just give us 10 years to pump all that oil out of Iraq, into the pipeline we want to build to Israel. FOLLOW THE MONEY.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:06 pmGen Casey: blah blah blah – White Man’s Burden – blah blah blah – McDonalds on every street corner blah blah blah
August 14th, 2007 at 3:08 pmit will be the spitting image of america, and we all want that don’t we?
what a shining beacon of hope we are.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:10 pmIn other words:
Just give us 10 years to pump all that oil out of Iraq, into the pipeline we want to build to Israel. FOLLOW THE MONEY.
Comment by Dick Stalin Cheney — August 14, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Thought they needed 30 to pump out the oil?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:12 pm“it will be the spitting image of america, and we all want that don’t we?
what a shining beacon of hope we are.
Comment by michael — August 14, 2007 @ 3:10 pm”
If you mean “spitting image” by:
- Corruption from top to bottom
- Infighting between the population
- Non Unity as a country
Then YES, they will be a “spitting image” of America.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:14 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — August 14, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
No. He just wants to put an end to Muslim Man’s Burden.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:15 pmActually General Casey, it’s a remarkable country right now!
re·mark·a·ble –adjective 1. notably or conspicuously unusual; extraordinary: a remarkable change.
2. worthy of notice or attention.
remarkable does not always been favorable or positive.
Oh, and glad you didn’t forget to mention the oil wells, the true reason for the occupation.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:15 pmwe should also pull our troops out of S Korea, Europe and the rest of the world
August 14th, 2007 at 3:16 pmIraq will be a remarkable country , when the occupation leaves with its tail between it legs
Comment by Tobey Tall
Kinda like John Kerry Vietnam the babykiller / foreign invader
August 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pmGen. Casey:
“Iraq?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:18 pmRemarkable country, isn’t it?
Nice, neat, orderly rows of oil wells and airstips,
not a person to be seen…
Absolutely remarkable, I must say…..”
Good to see no one in the administration, nor its allies, have any sense of history.
Psst … the mistrust was “left over” from the seventh century. Add in the Kurds, who have been stomped all over for centuries, and you get what we unleashed in Iraq.
Maybe if these clowns were aware of the history of the region they would have planned this thing a bit better.
Not likely, but maybe …
.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:19 pmAh, the Thousand-Year Bush-Reich, only 993.5 years to go!
Sieg Heils all around. This oil-nazi’s for you.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:19 pmHEy, Oh.
Raven!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:19 pmTen years, no way !!! Maybe 20 or 30 years (a generation or so)
Can’t wait! Where is all that oil money that was to pay for this fiasco?????
August 14th, 2007 at 3:20 pmTranslation — “we still need to get all that oil we’re paying for…”
At least we have somebody honest enough to say “ten years” instead of “six months”. The problem is that we don’t have the money or the resources to go another ten years. This is going to be a very tough sell to the American people, and rightly so.
Can you imagine the reaction Lyndon Johnson would have gotten in 1965 if he had told the American people “we’re going to be fighting and dying in Vietnam for the next eight years, but it will be worth it”? Of course, it wasn’t worth it. We lost.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:20 pmIt amazes me how much Iraq is beginning to resemble a colonial operation. How that countries welfare matters to us, and how much money, energy, and lives is going into. It’s exactly like the British colonies of old, in all but name.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:21 pmIT-IS-NOT-WORTH-IT.
The Neocon Utopian fantasy of a Iraqi Jeffersonian Democracy ain’t going to happen, General.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:21 pmAnd right now there’s just so much residual mistrust left over from the time under Saddam Hussein that they’re not quite ready to go forward.
Ummm….George……I usually like to get kissed before I get fu%!ed.
“Mistrust left over from Saddam”? How about how the Bush admin has completely mismanaged the reconstruction of Iraq? What about the daily bombings? Wasn’t the insurgency characterized as a “few dead enders” and weren’t we told that we were watching the same attack repeated over and over on the news? Perhaps only having electricity for 2 hrs a day or no drinkable water, or corruption within the Iraqi security forces, or the lack of solidarity in the Iraqi parliment? Maybe those issues also lead to the “mistrust” among Iraqi’s? That had nothing to do with Saddam.
It’s the usual storyline for these guys…..Blame it all on Saddam and A.Q. It couldn’t possibly be due to any action or lack thereof on our part.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:21 pm“we should also pull our troops out of S Korea, Europe and the rest of the world
Comment by tony — August 14, 2007 @ 3:16 pm”
Stawman arguement…..
First, those countries ACTUALLY WANT US THERE!!!!
Second, we are in those other countried because they actually do serve a purpose…. Unlike Iraq and Afganistan, which were going to be attacked NO MATTER WHAT….
Bush had orders sitting on his desk days before 9*11 waiting to be signed to attack Afganistan because the Taliban REFUSED to allow a OIL pipeline go through the country……
So if you can justify us being in Iraq for just OIL, then you are truely not worthy of being an American…..
August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pmOkay, maybe I should take my “tony” advice and save money to purchase a spell checker.
from my previous post:
remarkable does not always mean favorable or positive.
Not been
Yikes!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pmWhy do I get the impression that in listening to Gen. Casey, I’m actually hearing exactly the same words that must have been uttered over twenty years ago by some Soviet general describing the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, except for the part about the oil???
The similarities are striking.
And the results are bound to be the same.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pmU.S. helicopter crash in Iraq kills 5
11 minutes ago
+++++++++
Four other US Troops Killed Today
August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pmHell, no one should be surprised at the General’s positive remarks! Most of those that have been/are involved in this fiasco have been played by Bush and his goons like a fiddle! All they do is hawk what the administration puts out. Veterans should be ashamed of these so call “leaders.” A true leader would tell it like it is, not what the likes of Bush TELL them to it is.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:24 pmWhy are posts appearing and dissapearing????
This is really anoying….
Sorry AGAIN for the double post.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:25 pm10 troops Today been killed
August 14th, 2007 at 3:26 pm“10 troops Today been killed
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 14, 2007 @ 3:26 pm”
And we all know the Republicans are all High Fiving each other, because this shows that the “insurgents” are trying to turn the public opinion……
What has my country become that people care more for a party than the country???
August 14th, 2007 at 3:28 pm3694
+ U.S. helicopter crash in Iraq kills 5
http://news.yahoo.com/
August 14th, 2007 at 3:28 pmYes in a decade everybody in Iraq will either be dead, or have fled elsewhere, so Casey means then the OIL will be easy to pirate away.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:29 pmI thought it was only one more Friedman? Wait a minute….
August 14th, 2007 at 3:30 pmIf anything positive comes out of Iraq it is a LIE!
If anything negative comes out of Iraq it is Truth!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:32 pmIt is an insult to mentally challenged people to describe Casey’s comments as retarded.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:32 pmYes in a decade everybody in Iraq will either be dead
1,000,985 Iraqis dead
4% of the Population has been KILLED
August 14th, 2007 at 3:33 pmAnd shame on the Democrats for not ending this war like they claimed they would BEFORE the ‘06 elections!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:34 pmwe should also pull our troops out of S Korea, Europe and the rest of the world
Comment by tony — August 14, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Seriously? Or is this just another straw man argument from a simple-minded war supporter?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:34 pmTobey > the Bush plan is to basically kill off the Iraqi population, or force them to flee to other countries, so then the OIL can be easily pilfered. The few Iraqis who remain will be used like slaves.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:36 pmKook-aid drinker alert!
I guess Casey is one of the few who hasn’t spoken enough truth to be tossed under the bus yet?
I’m guessing Economics was not a strong study of Casey’s while in school. Do the match George and tell me at the “current occupation” levels or burn rate, just how poor or further in debt will the US be?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:36 pmAnd I suppose the mid/poor class are going to continue to sacrifice their children??? If the US poor die off killing all the ‘brown’ folks in Iraq, then this will be a true statement from the neocons: ‘Iraq Will Be A Remarkable Country In A Decade’ If We Stick With Occupation
August 14th, 2007 at 3:36 pm#28-The Oracle
What is also striking is how similar Casey’s remarks are to what General William Westmoreland said forty years ago regarding what the U.S. should do in Vietnam. It is as if the Pentagon and the Bush administration have been looking at transcripts and news clips from that era in order to convince themselves that their propaganda is actually working.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:37 pmwe should also pull our troops out of S Korea, Europe and the rest of the world
Comment by tony — August 14, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
everybody will be asking you to leave soon anyway, so Bye
August 14th, 2007 at 3:37 pmNew Orleans would be a remarkable city in a decade or so if we spend only a fraction of what the U.S. puts into Iraq.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:38 pmColonialism is EVIL
August 14th, 2007 at 3:38 pmLet’s see what Casey says when he retires.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:39 pm“If anything positive comes out of Iraq it is a LIE!
If anything negative comes out of Iraq it is Truth!
Comment by lostcosts — August 14, 2007 @ 3:32 pm”
Not true!!!!
Though YOU and the Republicans like to TWIST it that way….
If you consider only having water once or twice in a week and only having electricity one or two hours a day PROGRESS, then I guess there is….
Progress is measured in the ability of a country to sustain its self…
Just because on city is violence free for months does not make progress….. It is good, but it is NOT necessarily progress.
Especially when the violence simply goes to another town or city…..
I can claim that I made progress pulling that one weed out from my back yard as well……. But that would be a partial, if not flat out lie, when there are hundreds of other weeds I have yet to pull or control.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:39 pmIf good news comes out of Iraq it is a lie.
If bad news comes out of Iraq it is truth.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:39 pmInteresting that 10 years thing is used repeatedly by the Pentagon. Since bush leaves office in less than 17 months, so who has agreed to keep troops in Iraq for an additional 8+ years? Has Hillary Clinton agreed to do this if she becomes president? Has Mitt Romney agreed to do this? If so then the entire nation must spit on them.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:40 pmNew Orleans was devastated in poverty prior to Katrina because of power hunger politicians, what is the difference now?
Oh, people actually care now!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:41 pmIf good news comes out of Iraq it is a lie.
If bad news comes out of Iraq it is truth.
Comment by lostcosts — August 14, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
——
That about sums up the ideology of ThinkProgress.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:42 pmthis is progressive european media that recognizes that everything is not lost in Iraq:
http://www.spiegel.de/ international/ world/ 0,1518,499154,00.html
check it out and consider. We’re in Iraq today. Do we leave Iraq to all out genocidal civil war and cement the idea in the minds of middle eastern Muslims that democracy is not a legitimate option for them. Or do we try to promote democracy in Iraq in the hopes that it will serve as an alternative to Islamic fundamentalism that fosters a jihad mentality and denies many of the liberties that westerners take for granted from our Muslim brothers and sisters in the middle east.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:43 pmDems have been backtracking since they have a chance to win the White House. It is all about politics. Not truly what is the best thing for the country. No matter if you are supportive of the war or not.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:43 pm#51 lostcosts; BULLSEYE!!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:44 pmThat worked SO well for us in Vietnam. Let’s try it again!
Ten more years. Just ten more years…
August 14th, 2007 at 3:45 pmthis is progressive european media that recognizes that everything is not lost in Iraq:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,499154,00.html
check it out and consider. We’re in Iraq today. Do we leave Iraq to all out genocidal civil war and cement the idea in the minds of middle eastern Muslims that democracy is not a legitimate option for them. Or do we try to promote democracy in Iraq in the hopes that it will serve as an alternative to Islamic fundamentalism that fosters a jihad mentality and denies many of the liberties that westerners take for granted from our Muslim brothers and sisters in the middle east.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
———–
Muslims do it because of Islam. It’s called “Muslim Man’s Burden”
August 14th, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by paul
The life and times of a chronic Kool-Aid guzzler…
August 14th, 2007 at 3:46 pm#55 Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Yes, we’ve all heard this before. We get the idea (even if it is just a cover story).
The problem is it’s not working.
Infact, with every year that we’re there occupying that country we seem to be actually getting further away from that goal.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:48 pmDo we leave Iraq to all out genocidal civil war and cement the idea in the minds of middle eastern Muslims that democracy is not a legitimate option for them. Or do we try to promote democracy in Iraq in the hopes that it will serve as an alternative to Islamic fundamentalism that fosters a jihad mentality and denies many of the liberties that westerners take for granted from our Muslim brothers and sisters in the middle east.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Wow, paul, that is quite a false dichotomy you whipped up there. Are those really the only two paths this thing can take? Really? Seriously?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:49 pmit will be the spitting image of america, and we all want that don’t we?
what a shining beacon of hope we are. Comment by michael
Obviously they don’t want Democracy. If it ever became anything it would be the spitting image of Saudi Arabia, which BTW is where most of the hijackers came from, and which BTW is where Osama was born.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:49 pmBy the way, paul, you can use a thing called a “dictionary” to learn what “dichotomy” means.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pmPentagon Princess – can you believe this guy. The generals with guts only show up after their failures loom large in their retirement (Powell) and this turkey still thinks their is victory in the air…after a decade or two.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pmThanks for the link, paul.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:51 pmlostcosts. I agree. Democrats wanted power. Last fall, they placated liberal sensibilities in order to gain the majority in Congress. I believe that now, they don’t take serious action against the war, because they understand that doing so would spark an unpopular surrender and all out genocide in Iraq that would be politically devastating to them. Actions speak louder than words. As oppositional as they can be to the administration, they’re not stupid. They only require that quality from their supporters.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:52 pmKucinich says that the DLC and Neo Con agenda is indistinguishable.
Considering this site does censorship that appears to only block progressives – maybe he’s right.
What’s up TP, are you trying to get Murdoch to buy you next?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:53 pmEveryone’s so quick-minded here.
Iraq will be de-populated, the cities reduced to piles of rubble, the countryside contaminated with radioactive residue from non-explosive radioactive munitions, but there will be oil wells.
Yes, sir, a truly remarkable country if you are allowed to maintain your illegal occupation of a sovereign nation for an additional decade.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:55 pm“Remarkable.” That’s one of those words that can be good or bad isn’t it.
President Malaprop is fond of the adjective “incredible” with realizing that it describes him perfectly: “not credible.”
I wonder if the general’s usage of “remarkable” is similar.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:55 pmKNOCK KNOCK……
Does this damn thing even work anymore???
I am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
TP YOU SUCK, fix your damn server!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:57 pmVerbalKint. I’m impress by your vocabulary, but I’m even more interested in your alternative views of the future for Iraq. Assuming you believe it is a mess that we should have never engaged in; and also assuming that we are there now; what do you propose we do and what are the likely ramifications of your plan?
I challenge to post something progressive:
defined: Moving forward; advancing.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:58 pm3694
+ U.S. helicopter crash in Iraq kills 5
http://news.yahoo.com/
Comment by Tobey Tall
According to Tony Snow, thats progress.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:00 pmdefined: Moving forward; advancing.
Comment by paul
Better living conditions for everybody. Better quality of life.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:00 pmOf course the US will be bankrupt, but things in Iraq will be just great.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:02 pmRemoveBush-
Give me your great ideas for ending the war and containing the fallout. And how about you, also, VerbalKint!
War is hell! It is getting better. Just don’t deny the truth!
http://www.spiegel.de/ international/ world/ 0,1518,499154,00.html
August 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pmBut they have an educated population, they have oil wells, they have water, they have some of the most fertile land I’ve ever seen. In a decade or so, this will be a remarkable country, if we stick with it.
Right. Because it takes 10 years of American ingenuity to figure out how oil, water, and dirt work.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:05 pmJuan.
Would you agree that coalition forces acting as a police force to stabilize and secure Iraq would promote better living conditions and quality of life for Iraqis; more so than abandoning the area to genocidal civil war – that’ what most agree would happen, if we pull out.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:06 pmWould you agree that coalition forces acting as a police force to stabilize and secure Iraq would promote better living conditions and quality of life for Iraqis; more so than abandoning the area to genocidal civil war – that’ what most agree would happen, if we pull out. Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
Soldiers aren’t policemen. That’s why they fail being policemen.
You do realize that the UN has tens of thousands of trained policemen for this sort of job – right?
Why do you hate the Iraqis so much, that you want to unleash our highly trained killing machine on them?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:08 pmThere you go again.
#
lostcosts. I agree. Democrats wanted power. Last fall, they placated liberal sensibilities in order to gain the majority in Congress. I believe that now, they don’t take serious action against the war, because they understand that doing so would spark an unpopular surrender and all out genocide in Iraq that would be politically devastating to them. Actions speak louder than words. As oppositional as they can be to the administration, they’re not stupid. They only require that quality from their supporters.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
You have this them or us mentality, and it doesn’t float. As the post following yours pointed out, at least one Democrat disagrees with your premise. Although I agree to a certain extent about Dems placating voters to gain power, that’s how the game is played by both sides of the corporate political structure. Republicans want power too, and , if anythiong, have been far more ruthless and cohesive in obtaining and maintaining power.
As for the war, again the post following yours has it. The DLC and neocon agendas are the same.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:11 pmFew on either side are brave enough to speak out; Dem Kucinich and Rep. Paul are exceptions to the rule. the rule is the problem. Democrats allow their members to vote outside of party lines.
Repugs seldom do.
Now, about that remarkable future Utopia Iraq; got anything on that?
Give me your great ideas for ending the war and containing the fallout. And how about you, also, VerbalKint!
Dad, I stole the car, got drunk, ran some red lights, smashed into some other cars, set the car on fire… here are the keys, you tell me how you’re going to sort this out.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pm“that’ what most agree would happen, if we pull out.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:06 pm”
Those that have been wrong in everything they say about this war……..
I would bet that things would only get worse for a short time and then the Iraqi’s would come together to end this because they ARE DIRECTLY INVOLVED in their country….
Nobody knows what would happen……. PERIOD!!!!
Only those that have been WRONG every step of the way say that is what would happen…….
Besides….. We have invested enough resources for that country…… We are neglecting ours and are not gaining ground…….
They don’t want to stand up, so let them have what they have…… They had their chance multiple times…… We can’t MAKE them take democracy……
August 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pmAssuming you believe it is a mess that we should have never engaged in; and also assuming that we are there now; what do you propose we do and what are the likely ramifications of your plan?
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20470
August 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pmBush had orders sitting on his desk days before 9*11 waiting to be signed to attack Afganistan because the Taliban REFUSED to allow a OIL pipeline go through the country……
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Substantiation please!!! Or it’s just a pointless rumor.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 8, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Ask Russia how remarkable was Afghanistan with it’s occupation.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:15 pmWould you agree that coalition forces acting as a police force to stabilize and secure Iraq would promote better living conditions and quality of life for Iraqis; more so than abandoning the area to genocidal civil war – that’ what most agree would happen, if we pull out.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
Sorry, paul, most people don’t agree it would happen that way. Most rightwing Bush supporters, Neocon propagandists, and MSM stenographers agree. Most Americans don’t.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:16 pm1,000,985 Iraqis dead
4% of the Population has been KILLED
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 14, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Comments like this need substantiation, or they are meaningless.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:18 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 8, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
We helped Afghanistan fight off the Russians…give them some of what they gave us in Vietnam.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:18 pmOkay, no more hits off the “Hash Bong” for this Dick-Head!!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pmComments like this need substantiation, or they are meaningless.
Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
A partisan hack calling for others to substantiate their claims! Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pmPaul, we need to step back and stop causing harm. Harm is all we have caused so far, and it is because of the profound ignorance of our president, his advisors, and his cultist supporters about world affairs. We are engaged in an occupation that we can’t possibly win, and the situation has done nothing but get worse the longer we stay there. It is time to try something different. Peter Galbraith presents one plausible approach (see link in comment #83), but at this point it is anyone’s guess. The fact is we have destroyed a country and left it in ruins, and have bred bitter and widespread hatred around the world for doing it. Bush has severely damaged U.S. foreign policy interests for decades to come, and it is because he is a stubborn, ignorant, willfully stupid, unprincipled failure of a human being.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pmI believe that now, they don’t take serious action against the war, …
Would you agree that coalition forces acting as a police force to stabilize and secure Iraq would promote better living conditions and quality of life for Iraqis; more so than abandoning the area to genocidal civil war – that’ what most agree would happen, if we pull out.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
What is it Paul? A war? A police action? A counter-insurgency? An occupation? Make your mind up. War’s end when the opposition lays down arms and surrenders, a police action is just an undeclared war, a counter-insurgency is a government trying to suppress an armed rebellion and can be used in an occupation and has no end unless anyone who might be an insurgent is killed or incarcerated.
Since the US is now arming the Sunni insurgents against the foreign elements and the insurgents are also opposed to the government, is the US a counter-insurgent power, an occupying power, and insurgent power or just another player in a dirty civil war.
The US apparently needs this ’spread democracy’ myth to justify a military occupation which it intends to last for 10 years at least….isn’t that what Casey is saying?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:22 pmI am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
TP YOU SUCK, fix your damn server!!!
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Maybe there’s a “rational†filter.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pmDad, I stole the car, got drunk, ran some red lights, smashed into some other cars, set the car on fire… here are the keys, you tell me how you’re going to sort this out.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 14, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Terry. What you say speaks volumes. I don’t agree that going into Iraq was a mistake. I respect that you do. My question to progressives is this, instead of complaining about how we got here (progressives are good at that) explain to us your vision of the future. Stand up for the vision of us pulling out and leaving Iraq to genocidal civil war while you protect the lives of American soldiers. Or explain to us how there won’t be civil war after we leave. Or admit that you don’t know what the future will hold, but you are comfortable exchanging one poorly thought out strategy for another. You’re great at explaining your discontent with the past. Now, be progressive, explain what your plan is for the future, and how it will make the situation better. Or do progressives even have a plan?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pmWe helped Afghanistan fight off the Russians…give them some of what they gave us in Vietnam.
Comment by lostcosts — August 14, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
If you had any credibility before you surely lost it here. And in an ironic way, because it was Osama and his bands of merry men that defeated the Russians in Afghanistan, with training and weapons provided by the US of A.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:29 pmAnd Russia had nothing to do with Vietnam.
Read a book!
Paul, bring in the UN. They’re trained for this, soldiers aren’t.
You really are completely st’p'd, aren’t you?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:29 pmGen Casey is a lunatic.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:30 pmIf (a big if) the Democrats are smart, they can use this to get us out. How many Americans really want the U.S. to be bogged down in this quagmire for another 10 years? This is a very powerful reason why we should get out of there P.D.Q.
The military tends to cling to MacArturs’s fallacy that “I war there is no substitute for victory.”
This statement is complete nonesense. There are all kinds of substitutes for victory. In this case the substitute should be cutting our losses.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:30 pmWe helped Afghanistan fight off the Russians…give them some of what they gave us in Vietnam.
Comment by lostcosts — August 14, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Credibility gap; your brief statement contains almost as many errors as words.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:31 pmOsama is the military leader we trained to fight the Russians and Russia had no involvement with Vietnam.
Read a book!
A partisan hack calling for others to substantiate their claims! Ironic!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
A progressive calling someone names rather than backing up their position. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pmI pulled this from verbalkints link. Are progressives here willing to agree that this is a strategy they would support before we begin to debate it?
“We need to recognize, as Lugar implicitly does, that Iraq no longer exists as a unified country. In the parts where we can accomplish nothing, we should withdraw. But there are still three missions that may be achievable—disrupting al-Qaeda, preserving Kurdistan’s democracy, and limiting Iran’s increasing domination. These can all be served by a modest US presence in Kurdistan. We need an Iraq policy with sufficient nuance to protect American interests.”
August 14th, 2007 at 4:33 pmA progressive calling someone names rather than backing up their position. Ironic! Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
A conservative projecting. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pmnuance: “A subtle or slight degree of difference, as in meaning, feeling, or tone; a gradation.”
August 14th, 2007 at 4:35 pmA conservative projecting. Ironic!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
A progressive projector with a dim bulb. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pmI am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
r. It has happen to me too. I think the longer it takes to compose your post, the more opportunity for it to be lost. My suggestion is to copy your longer posts before you hit the post button. Good Luck.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pmnuance: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)
Yeah, shadings of meaning and value. What you wingnuts lack almost completely.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pmA progressive projector with a dim bulb. Ironic!
Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
A Republican projector with a burnt out bulb that won’t stop buzzing. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:38 pmA progressive projector with a dim bulb. Ironic!
Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
A conservative projector with a burned out bulb that won’t stop buzzing. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:38 pmI am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
Well thought out complete sentences from a Republican? BAHAHAHA, Ironic claim!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:40 pm“My question to progressives is this, instead of complaining about how we got here (progressives are good at that) explain to us your vision of the future.”
How about we actually protect our country and take care of America???
“Stand up for the vision of us pulling out and leaving Iraq to genocidal civil war while you protect the lives of American soldiers.”
It’s not that hard…… You move them to Kuwait and ship them out from there….. It’s not like it is the 650,000 troops we had during the Gulf War, and we moved them JUST FINE!!!
“Or explain to us how there won’t be civil war after we leave.”
Sure, because Iraqi’s will have the power to stand up for themselves….. Of course violence will increase some, but in the long run (which is what YOUR talking about) things will be MUCH BETTER.
“Or admit that you don’t know what the future will hold, but you are comfortable exchanging one poorly thought out strategy for another.”
We don’t know….. However, YOUR “wait 6 months” after 6 months after 6 months is not working either…..
“You’re great at explaining your discontent with the past. Now, be progressive, explain what your plan is for the future, and how it will make the situation better. ”
By moving out of the area, you allow the surrounding countries to play a larger roll…… They have no desire for a country near their borders in termoil like Iraq is….. They will step in and participate more….. Perhaps not the way YOU like, but YOU don’t live there now do YOU???
“Or do progressives even have a plan?”
Sure they do….. More than the Republicans, wait another 6 months X 20….
I have been hearing “give it just 6 more months” for YEARS……. What has the Republicans offered besides more of the same?????
At least by pulling back to allow the Iraqi’s step up to the plate, is different then “give them 6 more months”……
In the mean time……. Those that keep saying “give them 6 more months” are of age to join and support this quagmire, but would rather give lip service than actually serve their country.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:40 pmA Republican projector with a burnt out bulb that won’t stop buzzing. Ironic!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
A progressive projector with no bulb at all that buzzes in a more annoying way than any other thing and who also smells funny. Ironic!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:43 pmHaving fired every general officer with an independent and professional mind, Bush now has only monkeys who will ook-ook-ook on demand.
General Mongo Loyd: Happier Than You And Me; Stay The Course Across The Sea
August 14th, 2007 at 4:43 pm“Well thought out complete sentences from a Republican? BAHAHAHA, Ironic claim!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:40 pm”
I am by NO MEANS a Republican…..
I am a INDEPENDANT!!!!
I vote for the BEST person, not party!!!!!
I would vote for Ron paul, or Kusinich (SP?) over any of the other candidates….
Please make sure you know what your talking about before you spew non-sense!!!!
I have been on this site for a long time, and the regulars know that I am definately not a Republican…..
August 14th, 2007 at 4:43 pmVietnam part deaux
August 14th, 2007 at 4:45 pmThese guys should all watch “Fog of War”. Maybe that will serve as a reminder.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pmWell thought out complete sentences from a Republican? BAHAHAHA, Ironic claim!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
I am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
TP YOU SUCK, fix your damn server!!!
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Um… The post was from RemoveBush. Are you saying RemoveBush is a Republican? BAHAHAHA, Ironic claim!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pmI am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post…
I would recommend CTRL-C.
If I type something really long I’ll usually copy it to the clipboard before posting. Just in case…
And I don’t only do that here at TP. I do that when I’m posting on any blog site.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:48 pmIt’s amazing, but Cheney was right about an occupation in Iraq. IN 1994. What the f**k happened to that man besides drinking some kool-aid from Satan? I mean, jeez, I guess greed and power lust just corrupts to the soul.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:48 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
I am by NO MEANS a Republican…..
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Wasn’t referring to you, was referring to concept that ‘r’ would ever do that. Sorry for the confusion :)
August 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmFor the RECORD…..
“I am so tired of writing complete, well thought out sentences only to have them not post….
TP YOU SUCK, fix your damn server!!!
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm”
August 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmUm… The post was from RemoveBush. Are you saying RemoveBush is a Republican? BAHAHAHA, Ironic claim! Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
Nope. If it was too much nuance for RemoveBush to get the comment, no surprise you wouldn’t :)
August 14th, 2007 at 4:50 pmWhat strikes me as idiotic is; no one is apparently exploring the option of engaging the “world community” (either with or without the UN) in efforts to stabilize Iraq. Granted, U.S. leaders would have to appear on the world stage and proclaim, “We blew it”. But, what’s the harm in stating the obvious?
There seem to be only two logical explanations for this.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:50 pm1: Bushco are so insecure that they can’t admit error.
2: Bushco knows they would be tried, convicted, and punished, in an international court.
Methinks they want to trade for their oil with a bunch of cheap-ass condo towers like the dreck they’ve been shipping onto our shores for 20-30 years now… hey, wait! Where’d a whole shitload of OUR resources go?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI am by NO MEANS a Republican…..
I am a INDEPENDANT!!!!
I vote for the BEST person, not party!!!!!
I would vote for Ron paul, or Kusinich (SP?) over any of the other candidates….
Please make sure you know what your talking about before you spew non-sense!!!!
I have been on this site for a long time, and the regulars know that I am definately not a Republican…..
Comment by RemoveBush — August 14, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Oh no. Now you went and did it.HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus —
August 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pmBAHAHAHA, Ironic!
What’s so nuanced about leaving Iraq? How do you oppose jihadists with nuance? Do you protect Iraqis from genocide or don’t you? Would you decribe Iranian Islamic theocracy filling the vacuum of power left by coalition retreat as some kind of nuance? When you retreat to kurdistan, is the lost of the Port of Umm Qasr, on Iraq’s border with Kuwait, the country’s only deepwater ocean port, more nuance? If you want to convince people that your way is better, you have a lot of convincing to do. Maybe you should give up the “trust us because Bush is an evil idiot” line of reasoning, and start addressing some issues that accompany the retreat to a more modest, nuanced American policy for Iraq.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:52 pm“And I don’t only do that here at TP. I do that when I’m posting on any blog site.
Comment by DigDug — August 14, 2007 @ 4:48 pm”
It does not work still….
I have posted several times, modifying the text to what I think TP might be censoring but it still does not work….
Once in a while, they are just slow….. However, it is more times than not that they are just omitted and even pasting the original in and reposting does not work…..
August 14th, 2007 at 4:52 pmBuckaroo Banzai; I thought Iraq was Vietnam part deux.. Iran is Vietnam part trey.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pmOh, you were dealing in nuance. How ironic.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pm“Wasn’t referring to you, was referring to concept that ‘r’ would ever do that. Sorry for the confusion :)
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007 @ 4:49 pm”
No Problem….. :>)
August 14th, 2007 at 4:54 pmBuckaroo Banzai; I thought Iraq was Vietnam part deux.. Iran is Vietnam part trey.
Comment by Uncle Ho — August 14, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Yes Uncle. That is what I meant if not clear! They will be reciting the domino theory for the whole middle east. I love how they speak of Iran needs to be attacked because they are supplying (supposedly) IED’s to insurgents. Yet, the Saudi’s are funding about 90% of the insurgency and we are talking of giving them weapons. Curiouser and curiouser.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pmI’ve seen fog of war. Just because war’s are difficult to prosecute and aren’t guarenteed to be 100% successful is not reason to paralyze yourself into inaction. If you’re suggesting that we all watch fog of war and retreat to appeasement or isolationism because war is difficult, I’m not buying. If you’re a fan of your liberty, maybe you shouldn’t buy it either.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pmAs someone pointed out to me on another thread: TP uses more than one server due to traffic load. Thus, one server may house your comments, while you’re viewing a thread on another server. Also, one may be handling the spam filter a bit different.
Try hitting refresh a few times, or closing your browser and coming back. It should do the trick (in theory).
Oh, and a question for paul at #125 — you list a whole host of things that could happen. Yet all those scenarios have been put forth by people who have been wrong about pretty much everything concerning Iraq.
So why, exactly, should I trust anything they say? Seriously. Why put stock in the opinions of people who have zero credibility?
,
August 14th, 2007 at 5:00 pmThere is no one more dispicable that a military “yes” man. They have sworn to serve their country, but when they betray their solidiers for the sake of serving their careers, they betray the nation that trusts them to protect “all” of America’s citizens, including those who are risking and sacrificing their lives in combat.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pmWith Big Oil controlling the interests in Iraq, I’m betting 10 years from now if there is an Iraq left, it will not be a remarkable country; just a flawed and dangerous region.
“There is no substitute for Victory”?!?–sounds like a General parroting a Talking Point to stay worthy of employment in Geo Bush’s eyes.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pmPaul, I’m for war that is prosecuted properly and against targets that attack the US. Iraq doesn’t fit that bill. The troops should be withdrawn to Afghanistan and Bin Laden found. After all, W said dead or alive, right? What happened to that. I myself think the man is dead and his name is thrown around as the boogeyman. THere is no evidence he is alive.
To the point of Fog of War, even when they knew it was lost they kept escalating it. Kennedy told McNamara to pull out our 5,000 troops then was assassinated. Johnson comes on and tells McNamara he didn’t agree with that and to send more. Occupations don’t work. They never have and never will. This is not a war, but an occupation, with a civil war going on around it. If you look at the history of Iraq, you can be pretty sure that democracy will not undo the thousands of years of hatred between these different sects.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pm“I’ve seen fog of war. Just because war’s are difficult to prosecute and aren’t guarenteed to be 100% successful is not reason to paralyze yourself into inaction. If you’re suggesting that we all watch fog of war and retreat to appeasement or isolationism because war is difficult, I’m not buying. If you’re a fan of your liberty, maybe you shouldn’t buy it either.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:57 pm”
True, but getting into 2 wars because you WANT to is not a reason to continue because an IDIOT screwed it up to begin with…….
War is bloody, but this is NOT A WAR!!!!!
This is by choice, and is ILLEGAL……. Though you will argue otherwise…..
Just because we are there does not mean that we should continue to cut our wrists until there is no more blood pooring from our bodies…….
We need to just admit we failed and screwed up, then re-deploy!
My newborns children will be paying for Bush’s fu(kup!!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pmI’ve seen fog of war. Just because war’s are difficult to prosecute and aren’t guarenteed to be 100% successful is not reason to paralyze yourself into inaction. If you’re suggesting that we all watch fog of war and retreat to appeasement or isolationism because war is difficult, I’m not buying. If you’re a fan of your liberty, maybe you shouldn’t buy it either.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
There is ONLY ONE justification for war IMO and that is self defence. Which Iraq was not. Saddam posed not credible threat to us.
The admministration could have let the inspectors finish their work in Iraq to verify that too. There was no need to invade to check if their intel was good.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:04 pmWell paul, my answer to your post was deleted.
1. The civil war is already underway, the US has abandoned Al Malaki by arming the Sunnis who oppose him.
2. There are no good options, the US is blamed already and will be blamed if they leave – the only upside is a chance to save the army from exhaustion and the wasted money
3. What US interests are there in Iraq? Please explain that.
4. What possible upside have you seen that convinces you that invading Iraq is still ‘a good idea’?
Progressives wouldn’t be in this position, your question demanding a solution is hypothetical.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:06 pmWhat strikes me as idiotic is; no one is apparently exploring the option of engaging the “world communityâ€
It isn’t possible until there is a sea change in our government. No one trusts Bush anymore. Besides, the situation is so screwed up that people in other countries are reluctant to get involved, understandably so.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:10 pmBuckarooBanzai. That’s a reasonable post, but you have been lead to believe that all is lost in Iraq. It’s not. Here’s the link again:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,499154,00.html
read it.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:12 pmTo add Paul, if this occupation is going to continue, then Bush will have to implement the draft and roll back tax cuts. He has destroyed our military capability and we are more vulnerable than ever should a true threat come our way. The US cannot continue to fund a war by borrowing money from the Saudi’s, Chinese and Japanese. Where is the sacrifice? Why does Bush continue to not ask a thing of this country if this is truly a noble cause? And for every occupation supporter out there, why aren’t they calling for a draft? Oh yeah, because some of them might actually be called to fight. No, Bush is treading water and leaving this mess for the future. The man shows zero leadership, abdicating his responsiblity for any accountabilty to Patreaus. You think he has the answer?
August 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmhere’s a sample:
Ramadi is an irritating contradiction of almost everything the world thinks it knows about Iraq — it is proof that the US military is more successful than the world wants to believe. Ramadi demonstrates that large parts of Iraq — not just Anbar Province, but also many other rural areas along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers — are essentially pacified today. This is news the world doesn’t hear: Ramadi, long a hotbed of unrest, a city that once formed the southwestern tip of the notorious “Sunni Triangle,” is now telling a different story, a story of Americans who came here as liberators, became hated occupiers and are now the protectors of Iraqi reconstruction.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmAnd what country would it be in 10 years?
August 14th, 2007 at 5:16 pmNow they are only explaining what they had planned all along.
They get taxpayers to pay for stealing and guarding that treasure for the oil companies.
The oil companies get (+ -) 5 trillion for zero investment.
And the con continues.
What strikes me as idiotic is; no one is apparently exploring the option of engaging the “world communityâ€
August 14th, 2007 at 5:17 pmAnd they won’t be engaged. Condi is unqualified and incompetent as Secretary of State. Bush has burned all the good will and the rest of the world will not trust the US since what got us into this quagmire (Cheney’s words from ‘94) were lies. Why would anyone trust what the US says anymore?
BuckarooBanzai. That’s a reasonable post, but you have been lead to believe that all is lost in Iraq. It’s not. Here’s the link again:
http://www.spiegel.de/ international/ world/ 0,1518,499154,00.html
read it.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
An article with a cheery outlook on Iraq… this is something new?
August 14th, 2007 at 5:18 pmCasey’s “in a decade”-comment is quackery. There’s no basis for that assertion; nor the 10-year timeframe. “In 10 years, things will happen:” That’s not a forecast, but inevitable.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:19 pmhere’s a sample:
Ramadi is an irritating contradiction of almost everything the world thinks it knows about Iraq — it is proof that the US military is more successful than the world wants to believe. Ramadi demonstrates that large parts of Iraq — not just Anbar Province, but also many other rural areas along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers — are essentially pacified today. This is news the world doesn’t hear: Ramadi, long a hotbed of unrest, a city that once formed the southwestern tip of the notorious “Sunni Triangle,†is now telling a different story, a story of Americans who came here as liberators, became hated occupiers and are now the protectors of Iraqi reconstruction.
Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
So… the conflict has shifted somewhere else. Again, nothing new.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pmSorry, Paul. I’ve just been seeing articles that make the case Iraq is getting better and is about to turn corner and get better for over 4 years now. The act is getting old.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:22 pm“Comment by paul — August 14, 2007 @ 5:13 pm”
Yeah…. Yeah… Yeah……
You know….. There is more wrong with Iraq then there is right……
So what if smaller towns and issolated areas are doing well???? The overall situation IS NOT ANY BETTER 4 years later…….. IT’S WORSE!!!!!
I guess you would not fight with only 1-2 hours a day of electricity and only having water once or twice a week?????
PLEASE!!!!!! Just because some small area of the country is doing well does not mean that we are making headway in any way shape or form…… It just means that in that area we have been successful.
Your idea of success seems to be ANY sign of something to brag about??? Ignore those “bad” things and only talk about the good!!!!!!
How about all those college students fleeing Iraq, or the Doctors, or the Engineers??????
How about the fact that the river can’t be used as a water source because of the bodies that keep getting dropped in it????
How about all those buildings that have not been rebuilt???? Those that were started and now just sit there???? All that money GONE!!!!
Please wake up!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 5:22 pm175 killed today Paul. Things are getting so much better…
August 14th, 2007 at 5:24 pmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20250066/
Paul, my earlier point on the draft is on target. If the US is to continue an occupation, they will have to send in a heck of alot more troops than what is there now. Right now, it is a shell game. Send some here, it quiets down. When they leave, the violence picks right back up. It won’t end.
I find it fascinating that we are listening to any of these clowns about 6 more months. Nothing will change, it will just continue to wear down the troops and cost billions of dollars. We went into Gulf War I with over 500,000 troops and didn’t stay. Why not? For some reason, the military had leaders then that said an occupation wouldn’t work. Look again at my earlier post with the link to Cheney’s remarks in ‘94 on that exact fact. So what is different now that leads ANYONE to believe that would change? The difference is we know have an administration full of people who think they can create reality just by repeating something to the press often enough. They aren’t grounded in any reality, they don’t want to be accountable, and lack the courage to say, “I made a mistake”, and then set about correcting the mistake. Instead, Bush will leave this for the next guy. He drove every business he’s been involved with into the ground, and now he’s done it to the US.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:32 pmof course it will, general – look at what a decade of soviet occupation did for afghanistan
what a f’in reeetard!!!!
somebody court-martial that dolt, or send some of the free, retired generals over to his house for some old-fashioned persuading….
got a little dubbie-poop on yer nose there mon’ general
August 14th, 2007 at 5:33 pmpaul @ a#131: Fine words…how do you write while jerking your knees so hard?
August 14th, 2007 at 5:38 pmI think you FAILED at being a citizen of this fine USA by relinquishing your duty of keeping yourself informed of what has been transpiring in the WH. When our nation was attacked on Sept 11, 2001, we had a clear mission: Take out Osama bin Ladin. Root him out where he was hiding.
George Bush had the support of all Americans–until he started on a tangent of Iraq. Suddenly, GW “didn’t care where [Osama] was” and Saddam had WMD’s (I think he used this phrase because he couldn’t pronounce “Nuclear”) WMDs are also vaguely secretive and frightening.
Well paul, you and your republicon friends bought it; hook, line, and sinker. You NEVER QUESTIONED, and worse, you challenged and continue to challenge every American who asked Why?
You don’t do your homework; you put more faith in George Bush than mere mortals have a right to claim.
The “fog of war” phrase is only for in the field of battle. You have no such illusions now. It is now daylight without threat of immediate death. It is OUR responsibility to keep our elected officials to the high standard of forthrightness with the citizenry. You have given this Presidency so many passes, he now feels it is HIS right to do as he pleases, and hide as much as he pleases.
But it is not so; Remember Bill Clinton. He couldn’t even get away with an indiscretion with another consenting adult.
George Bush will not be getting away with deceiving the American people, even if there are still the 25% like you who would rather be lied to, even to the continued sacrifice of more servicemen and women.
Don Rumsfeld, Feb. 7, 2003:
“It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.â€
- http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/03/
August 14th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIraq will be remarkable after 10 more years of occupation? Of course! There will be plenty to remark on! The remarks will be critical of the 14+ years of occupation? That’s ridiculous! I will ridicule any such observations! You’ll be shocked by my audacity? Works every time.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:45 pmMaybe the U.S. will be a remarkable country in 10 years too.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:48 pmJust suppose… China invades the US (because we stopped by their tainted products) and decides to occupy the US (got to keep the US insurgency under control), would the US be a “Remarkable Country in a decade” if China continues with it’s occupation? Just asking a hypothetical question. It would be a similar situation as to what happened and is still happening in Iraq(nam).
August 14th, 2007 at 5:59 pmAnother ten years? Well that’s a bargain! I thought we’d be there at least another twenty to thirty.
God help us if the Republicans win the White House in 08!
August 14th, 2007 at 5:59 pmOops…
August 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pmcorrection:
Just suppose… China invades the US (because we stopped buying their tainted products) etc…
Any country that American’s invest ONE TRILLION taxpayer DOLLARS into SHOULD become a REMARKABLE COUNTRY! The states of OHIO, MICHIGAN and INDIANA represent about the same population as Iraq (approx. 27.5 million people). What would a ONE TRILLION DOLLAR investment do for the economies of those STATES? Would those three AMERICAN STATES become REMARKABLE ONES if their economies received an investment of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS? Would AMERICA and AMERICANS receive a greater return on their ONE TRILLION DOLLAR INVENSTMENT in IRAQ or in OHIO, MICHIGAN and INDIANA?
August 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pmOh, you were dealing in nuance. How ironic.
Comment by r — August 14, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Ironic that you didn’t get the nuance? Nope, that’s not irony – that’s just you being you. Hopeless and pathetic…
August 14th, 2007 at 6:11 pmAnd the “front runners” for the Democrats? They want to stay in Iraq. They want all that stuff. None of them, except for Kuchinic have recommended getting out. They hem and they haw and the killing goes on. They suffer no regrets and are out to set the US on it’s fascist imperialistic goals. They WANT IT. Hillary, Obama, Edwards–THEY WANT IT.
Jessus, how many have to die? Jeesus, these people did not choose to be born where they were born. Jessus–they are being murdered while the building of the largest embassy in the world goes on.
And we kill them without hesitancy on the COMPLICITY of the “front runners” two of whom voted for it, and the congress and all the “D” wimps who will not dare to take a stupid man , along with the votes of Democrats, who caused it all out of power.
THEY MUST WANT IT.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:30 pmIn Ten years?! Hey, that will only be 1.5 trillion dollars extra! Bend over tax payers!
August 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pmFor the 1 Trillion Dollars and 10 years(it will probably end up more like 3 Trillion+), I’d wager we would have hydrogen powered cars readily available. Does that make more sense? Oh, but the oil there is SO important. Right. An Appolo program for alternative energy development would be so much better for America and the world. But no, 10 more years in Iraq is so much more important.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:46 pmGotta love Casey reminding us that the Iraqi people lived under Saddam for 3 1/2 decades. Yeah, Casey? Who helped keep him in power? Who supported him? Who sold him WMD, that he then used on his own people? Yup, the good ‘ol US of A. Wonder why they might resent us now? Here’s a great photo:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
We loved Saddam right up until he didn’t want to be our boy anymore…
August 14th, 2007 at 6:52 pmIraq will be remarkable, but America will be third world at best. This country is 36th in quality of health care and 41st in longevity. This is no longer a “great country.” So what do we do, immigrate to Iraq so we can enjoy the country that contributed to America’s downfall? More idiocy for popular consumption.
August 14th, 2007 at 7:11 pmThis country is 36th in quality of health care and 41st in longevity.
As bad as it is, are you planning to move somewhere better?
August 14th, 2007 at 7:16 pmSo, did the reporter challenge his assertions????????????????
August 14th, 2007 at 8:14 pmSo, are we to accept them as fact, or reasonable?????????????????????
So, what is the responsibility of the press other than to report favorably what their handlers decree??????????????????
“Iraq Will Be A Remarkable Country In A Decade”
This statement is the extended version of a Friedman Unit.
1 Friedman Unit = 6 months.
1 Casey Unit = 10 years.
Friedman’s prediction powers have been proven wrong time and again. I see no reason to give Gen. Casey the benefit of the doubt.
Just like in Vietnam, the longer the US military presence remains in Iraq, the higher the number of casualties will be, with the locals doing most of the dying.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pmIn listening to the Bush administration’s Iraq War propagandists, I cannot help but think that the Kremlin, Soviet generals and Pravda/Tass probably used the same words back in the 1980s to rationalize why Soviet forces should remain in Afghanistan.
I know I’m right.
If somone went back to quotes coming out of the Kremlin and Soviet military in the 1980s while the Soviet Union was bogged down in Afghanistan, I just bet that many things said back then by the Soviets would match almost verbatim what the Bush administration and their “loyal Bushie” generals are saying about Iraq.
War hawks always follow the same script, you see…no matter what nation, no matter what period of time, no matter what war is being waged or contemplated.
And just as the Soviet Union was severely strained by it’s occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s, which ultimately led to it’s collapse, the Bush administration has done equal damage to our democracy through it’s war hawk driven invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Hopefully, though, our great democratic nation will survive this neo-con Republican almost-Communistic assault on our nation’s resources and freedoms in pursuit of their mad war hawk delusiions. I have faith that our nation has the strength to overcome the utter stupidity of the Bush administration…in time.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:49 pmThe sun’ll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There’ll be sun!
Just thinkin’ about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
‘Til there’s none!
When I’m stuck a day
That’s gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh
The sun’ll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
‘Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!
You’re always
A day
A way!
http://www.jansjoyousjungle.com/sunout.html
August 15th, 2007 at 12:22 amHey, someone tell me why we should have troops in S Korea? We can protect any country via air support– look at the highway of death during the 1st gulf war. S Korea has industrialized and had over 50 yrs and can protect themselves. If you are going to use the argument that we should leave Iraq, Then it should also apply to other areas of the world.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:33 am3,699
August 15th, 2007 at 4:39 amIf it’s imminently doable in a decade or so, after 4 years of war or so, 5 years of lies or so, 2 trillion dollars of US treasury or so, 3666 Americans dead or so and 600 000 Iraqis dead or so, I don’t think I have what it takes to “stick with it” to make Iraq a “remarkable country”, General Stupid, Sir.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:58 amFrom “Mission Accomplished” to now = 4 years i.e. a factor of 4.
It is now claimed “Remarkable Country” will take 10 years.
Doing the math, we would still be blogging about this war in…
10 x 4 = 40 years from now.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:19 amTen years? Gee, just in time for a Republican president to declare Victory!
But I’m sure that is just a coincidence…
What strikes me as idiotic is; no one is apparently exploring the option of engaging the “world communityâ€
We did. They came, they saw we didn’t know what the hell we were doing, they started to leave. It will have to be the UN and they’re a bit stretched right now because some military genius decided to remove soldiers from Afghanistan and whined at the UN to help out.
I think that’s what you’ll see at some point (before 10 years I hope), the UN will go into Iraq, they’ll be greeted as liberators, get flowers & candies etc, the country will start to settle down. The war profiteers will already have their cash, the soldiers will have … their memories? Hopefully all of their limbs? We’ll have a parade in DC and then we will be expected to forget who did what when and why.
And some whore will write a biography of GWB that claims he vanquished Saddam Hussein in a duel and single-handedly re-built Iraq.
August 15th, 2007 at 7:35 amHeck, it could be another Chile in a couple of years!
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 amHeck Iraq could be the next vacation hotspot! …. well in ten years anyways..
August 17th, 2007 at 4:23 pm