Helicopter crash kills five U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
By on Aug 14th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Helicopter crash kills five U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
Five American soldiers died in Anbar province today “when a CH-47 Chinook helicopter crashed during routine post-maintenance test flight near Taqaddum air base, according to a military statement.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Glenn Beck
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
4 also killed in a roadside Bomb and also another by sniper fire
thats 10 today
August 14th, 2007 at 3:48 pmIraq’s deputy oil minister three others kidnapped
More than 50 gunmen dressed in Iraqi security forces uniforms and using 17 official vehicles broke into an Oil Ministry compound in eastern Baghdad Tuesday and abducted a senior deputy of the oil minister, and three other officials…
August 14th, 2007 at 3:49 pmTragic.
Another 5 American lives WASTED.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pm“Routine post-maintenance test flights” require 5 soldiers?
August 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pmThat’s odd.
You’d think the responsible thing to do would be to have just one pilot aboard in case there is a fatal misshap.
Comment by OxyCon
Yes, but these suckers are HUGE (twin rotors).
August 14th, 2007 at 3:51 pmComment by OxyCon — August 14, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Pat Tillman was also on board.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:52 pmDont you libs get anything this is a WAR people are gonna die. Your acting like this is the end of the world or something. ITS A FACT PEOPLE DIE IN WARS
August 14th, 2007 at 3:52 pmITS A FACT PEOPLE DIE IN WARS
Comment by gitMORules
We know, that’s why you should ENLIST…
August 14th, 2007 at 3:53 pmThis was a tragic occurance. But the truth is, it could have happened anywhere and it was not the result of enemy forces.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:54 pmThe deaths raised to at least 3,700 members of the U.S. military who have died since the Iraq
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/14/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Helicopter-Down.php
August 14th, 2007 at 3:54 pmthis is a WAR people are gonna die
That’s right, sweetpea, but you miss the point.
This is a pointless WAR; people are dying needlessly.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:55 pmyou guys think 3,700 is allot? thats nothing we were losing over 10,000 a day in WW2. By any measure casualties have been light. If there were 100 deaths you babies would be crying about it.
GET OVER IT
August 14th, 2007 at 3:57 pmCASUALTIES STARTING AUGUST 1st
August 14th, 2007 at 3:58 pmWednesday: 6 GIs, 1 Brit, 178 Iraqis Killed; 188 Iraqis Wounded
Thursday: 3 GIs, 116 Iraqis Killed; 76 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 3 GIs, 22 Iraqis Killed; 13 Iraqis Wounded
Saturday: 1 Marine, 38 Iraqis Killed; 26 Iraqis Wounded
Sunday: 4 GIs, 116 Iraqis Killed; 49 Iraqis Wounded
Monday: 8 GIs, 123 Iraqis Killed; 131 Iraqis Wounded
Tuesday: 3 GIs, 1 Briton, 63 Iraqis Killed; 50 Iraqis Wounded
Wednesday: 93 Iraqis, 1 Briton Killed; 63 Iraqis Wounded
Thursday: 3 GIs, 2 Britons, 46 Iraqis Killed; 21 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 81 Iraqis Killed, 89 Wounded
Saturday: 1 GI, 81 Iraqis Killed; 34 Iraqis Wounded
Sunday: 5 GIs, 1 Fiji Soldier, 57 Iraqis Killed; 37 Iraqis Wounded
Monday: 4 GIs, 41 Iraqis Killed; 20 Iraqis Wounded
10 more years! 10 more years!
August 14th, 2007 at 3:58 pmComment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
#
This is like saying the deaths from cancer are nothing, just look how many died from the plague.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:00 pmGET OVER IT
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
#
I dare you to walk up to a family at Arlington cemetery and tell them to get over it.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:01 pmMore people have died from cancer then the plague moron
August 14th, 2007 at 4:01 pmMore people have died from cancer then the plague moron
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
And more people have died from this invasion, than were saved. But don’t let a rational though corrupt your partisan irrational hate!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:02 pmyou guys think 3,700 is allot? thats nothing we were losing over 10,000 a day in WW2. By any measure casualties have been light. If there were 100 deaths you babies would be crying about it.
GET OVER IT
Comment by gitMORules
There were also MILIIONS of U.S. Soldiers in WWII, compared to the SAME 160,000 doing multiple tours.
Come correct or dont come at all
August 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pmPollution causes 40 percent of deaths worldwide, study finds
About 40 percent of deaths worldwide are caused by water, air and soil pollution, a Cornell University researcher has concluded.
Such environmental degradation, coupled with the growth in world population, are major causes behind the rapid increase in…
http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=1834314&Language=en
August 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pm“The deaths raised to at least 3,700 members of the U.S. military who have died since the Iraq
http://www.iht.com/ articles/ ap/ 2007/ 08/ 14/ africa/ ME-GEN-Iraq-Helicopter-Down.php
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 14, 2007 @ 3:54 pm”
Actually, the death toll is somewhere around 27,000……
Bush is not counting soldiers who die from injeries received in Iraq, but die somewhere else….. They only count those soldiers that die in country at that particular moment in time….
This is how much of a WEASLE this administration is……
They can’t even provide ACCURATE tallies to the Amercian people because they are COWARDS and have to hide behind their lies…..
August 14th, 2007 at 4:04 pm4 also killed in a roadside Bomb and also another by sniper fire
thats 10 today
Comment by Tobey Tall
August 14th, 2007 at 4:04 pmAnd you never hear about those that died en route tot he hospital or after in the hospital. The Harring Report some years ago estimated the death toll is 8 times of that which is reported.
The 10 that died today will show up on the DAD icasualties.org only… no others. Another big LIE.
GET OVER IT
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
typical republican invoke the soldiers names to support your agenda then throw them under the bus.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI dare you to walk up to a family at Arlington cemetery and tell them to get over it.
Comment by Chris L — August 14, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
No i wont do that. Seeing how you missed the point 3,700 death is a drop in the bucket when it comes to a war. You libs have such a low threshold. 3,700 deaths to me shows that were winning. There isnt much of a resistance if all they got is 3,700 of us. Theres been a minute rise in violence cause the enemy is making a push to get us out of there. But its not much look at the numbers and compare them to any other war we’ve fought in.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:05 pmyou guys think 3,700 is allot? thats nothing we were losing over 10,000 a day in WW2. By any measure casualties have been light. If there were 100 deaths you babies would be crying about it.
GET OVER IT
Comment by gitMORules
Wow, that’s so few lives it doesn’t matter? Then you must think the WTC was no big deal, after all, it was less than 3700 – right?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:05 pmComment by gitMORules
Does that gaping hole where your heart should be hurt much?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:06 pmOnly neocon trash could be as heartless as you.
Come correct or dont come at all
Well then, that should be the last we hear from gitmorules. He lives in an alternate universe where up is down and black is white.
Anyone who is dumb enough to compare GDumbya’s dirty little avoidable war in Iraq to WWII cannot likely even put his Depends on without assistance.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:06 pmNo i wont do that. Seeing how you missed the point 3,700 death is a drop in the bucket when it comes to a war. You libs have such a low threshold. 3,700 deaths to me shows that were winning. Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
You forgot the tens of thousands of wounded soldiers that would have died without modern medicine.
There isnt much of a resistance if all they got is 3,700 of us. Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
That’s delusional.
Theres been a minute rise in violence cause the enemy is making a push to get us out of there. But its not much look at the numbers and compare them to any other war we’ve fought in.
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
A push that’s lasted the entire war? You’re delusional.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pm“No i wont do that. Seeing how you missed the point 3,700 death is a drop in the bucket when it comes to a war. You libs have such a low threshold. 3,700 deaths to me shows that were winning. There isnt much of a resistance if all they got is 3,700 of us. Theres been a minute rise in violence cause the enemy is making a push to get us out of there. But its not much look at the numbers and compare them to any other war we’ve fought in.
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm”
See my previous post…..
It is more like 27,000 that have died because Bush is such a pussy that he does not count soldiers who die from injuries sustained in combat in Iraq or Afgaistan, but die in Germany or the US from those injuries….
So does 27,000 fit your requirement of “sufficient” numbers for a death toll?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:08 pmMore people have died from cancer then the plague moron
Comment by gitMORules
Well, considering that the plague wiped off the third part of European civilization and it didnt have any treatment…
August 14th, 2007 at 4:08 pm- RemoveBush
August 14th, 2007 at 4:09 pmYour full of crap provide a link to your numbers. Or wait you dont have one cause all you do is make shit up.
No i wont do that. Seeing how you missed the point 3,700 death is a drop in the bucket when it comes to a war. You libs have such a low threshold. 3,700 deaths to me shows that were winning. There isnt much of a resistance if all they got is 3,700 of us. Theres been a minute rise in violence cause the enemy is making a push to get us out of there. But its not much look at the numbers and compare them to any other war we’ve fought in.
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
that is more because of the advancement in medicine there have been over 27,000 seriously wounded. The amount for the lifetime disability coverage for these individuals as not even been applied to cost of this war.
killed wounded
August 14th, 2007 at 4:10 pm2003 486 2408
2004 849 8002
2005 846 5948
2006 822 6398
2007 691 4430
Total 3694 27186
Your full of crap provide a link to your numbers. Or wait you dont have one cause all you do is make shit up.
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
Projection.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:10 pmComment by Just Checking — August 14, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
You really should do a little checking. At 10,000 KIA per day, one year of WW2 would be 3.6 million KIA in one year.
In four years, the total would be 14.6 million KIA.
Do you really believe that over 14 million Americans were killed in WW2?
August 14th, 2007 at 4:11 pmDont you libs get anything this is a WAR people are gonna die. Your acting like this is the end of the world or something. ITS A FACT PEOPLE DIE IN WARS
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
this is not a war. It is an illegal occupation. You are wrong, but that’s to be expected from ratwing cowards sitting at home instead of defending their president’s oil profits.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pm2.87 troops a DAY on average is a lot
also 28,308 troops injured with 68 percent of all U.S. soldiers wounded in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts are a result of extremity injuries…
basically broken ankles
This was a needless war ,,,,,,,,, Saddam would have died in another ten years of natural causes anyway
August 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pmits not much look at the numbers and compare them to any other war we’ve fought in
So says pantload gitmorules.
When this idiot gets lost, he just proudly claims that he’s “making good time”.
What an idiot.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:13 pmPoor gitmorulesthebraindead doesn’t realize that war is between armies, and doesn’t describe an occupation. These wingnuts really have no grasp of the english language. Must be the inbreeding and homeschooling.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:13 pmMore people have died from cancer then the plague moron
Comment by gitMORules
Prove it, you traitorous idiot. Why haven’t you enlisted, coward? Why? Whya re you a coward, coward? Then the insurgents could get a bead on that bright yellow stripe down your back, and blow you into pieces, like you deserve.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:15 pm1 dead soldier is too many in an illegal invasion for oil profits, gitmoRULES. I hope you end up in Gitmo, i really do. Then y8ou’ll see what rules. sissy.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:17 pmheres an interesting fact I found
Pollution causes 40 percent of deaths worldwide, study finds
WASHINGTON, Aug 14 (KUNA) — About 40 percent of deaths worldwide are caused by water, air and soil pollution, a Cornell University researcher has concluded.
Such environmental degradation, coupled with the growth in world population, are major causes behind the rapid increase in…
send link after
August 14th, 2007 at 4:19 pmhttp://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/Categories.aspx?Language=en&id=100
August 14th, 2007 at 4:20 pmviolence is a sign of immaturity ( work it out)
heh hem Gitmo
August 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pmVery interesting numbers here:
http://www.nationalww2museum.org/education/education_numbers.html
August 14th, 2007 at 4:22 pmGitmo is proof of immaturity on the right. neadertals and chimpanzees over there. subhumans. unevolved.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:23 pm“Your full of crap provide a link to your numbers. Or wait you dont have one cause all you do is make shit up.
Comment by gitMORules — August 14, 2007 @ 4:09 pm”
Here you go fuitcake….
http://www.williambowles.info/iraq/2005/us_casualty_figures.html
By the way….. I will conceed that it is not 27,000, but no ONE really knows what that number is…….
So my statements still stand…..
If this war is “noble”, then why not HONOR every soldier????? Why FUDGE the numbers to make yourself look good?????
August 14th, 2007 at 4:24 pmGitmo is proof of immaturity on the right. neadertals and chimpanzees over there. subhumans. unevolved.
Oh, gitmo has evolved alright . . . from an inert mineral (rock) to a gaseous substance (a fart in a windstorm).
August 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pmso the 10,000 a day in WWII would have been eclipsed in 29 days
August 14th, 2007 at 4:29 pmTotal Americans killed 292,131.
The same types who use “It’s war – people are going to die” tripe were the same types who foamed at the mouth regarding Clinton and the 17 Rangers who died in “Blackhawk Down” incidient. KIA during a Democratic President – bad, under a Republican President – OK.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pmso the 10,000 a day in WWII would have been eclipsed in 29 days
Total Americans killed 292,131.
Comment by chad — August 14, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
just proof that gitmoLIES, like all ratwingers.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:36 pmNot to mention the latest estimates of Iraqi dead are now at 1 million.
-GSD
August 14th, 2007 at 4:38 pmAs for the comment up early about why 5 soldiers were on board on an MTF, on a Chinook you typically have two pilots, and two crewmen. The fifth could have possibly been a TI (Technical Inspector). Number of crewmen on an MTF varies, depending on the reason behind the MTF.
As for all the comments about the war, I would have to say NO ONE has a valid opinion unless they have been there themselves. So all of you need to think twice about sharing your “opinions”. BTW, I have two tours in Iraq….and I do NOT support the war there.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:43 pmBTW, I have two tours in Iraq….and I do NOT support the war there.
Comment by deadhorse
My tour to Iraq happened in Desert Storm. I also was in several other “actions”, some public knowledge, some not.
I have family currently in Iraq. I do not support Iraq, especially since the Bush Administration lied about the wmd threat to start it.
Let’s not call someone’s opinion valid or invalid just because they didn’t serve or serve in the current conflict. Go after the merits or the reasoning behind the opinion, rather.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:01 pmThe big difference is our military volunteered, unborn babies didnt have a choice when a dr vacuumed them out
August 14th, 2007 at 5:22 pmI say people should serve in the AOR prior to submitting an opinion because how could one logically have a valid opinion on an experience/action/event without having been a participant? I am against our incursion in to Iraq because it was unnecessary at the time of the invasion. We have a valid fight in Afghanistan, so there was no need to open a “second front”. The affects of doing so can now be seen in A-stan. The bottom line is, regardless of whatever particular political view someone believes in, I find it hard to accept any opinion regarding the war or the troops concerned because they have no actual experience to base the opinion on. But regardless, all of this moot and redundant because it is MY OWN opinion after all. I just wish individuals could take an opinion based from the view of us former and current grunts on the ground. That’s all I want for X mas…
August 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pmNot gonna happen, deadhorse. We are caught in the middle of this political facade, like it or not. Several people who make policy that govern my (Active duty)actions have never worn a uniform, and no clue what hell must be unleashed to get the job done (nor do they care). On the flip side, the people who cry for our return haven’t been there either. I respect both sides, and really thank those who want to bring us home, but I am smart enough to know that I’m a pawn in the game, regrdless of who the winner is.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:06 pmIt says here that the Chinook has a three man crew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-47_Chinook
Why were five people on board during a “routine post-maintenance test flight”?
Even though the Chinook has a three man crew, that is for a flight mission, not a test flight, so there still should have been only the test pilot on board.
August 14th, 2007 at 6:44 pmThe big difference is our military volunteered, unborn babies didnt have a choice when a dr vacuumed them out
Comment by tony
Volunteer to protect their country, not to steal other´s people resources.
Unborn babies? I think thats a new medical term. Good thing we have geniuses here.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:17 pm“4 also killed in a roadside Bomb and also another by sniper fire
thats 10 today
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 14, 2007″
Wanna “cut & run”?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:51 pmhey michelle,
wanna enlist?
then YOU stfu, CHICKENHAWK.
you’ve already CUT-N-RUN by joining the neoturd, keyboard commandos! congrats, LOSER!!!
“coward-lame-p*ssy-a$$-f*ggot” – willie d., geto boys
August 14th, 2007 at 9:56 pmMe likey play pretend soldier from behind keyboard and mouse.
Me feel all grown-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 10:54 pmThe Chinook is a huge aircraft. It is 100 feet long, rotor tip to rotor tip. One pilot cannot fly it alone (one person cannot reach all the emergency flight equipment). Thus two pilots are required. Typical flight requires a crew of 4 for standard flight, not 3. Two additional crew members in the back to monitor systems (it has two hydraulic systems, two engines, five transmitions, etc.) and watch the rear of the aircraft. In a combat environment, you would have an additional crew member to man an extra gun. For a “test flight”, which is required after ANY maintenance work, depending on the testing required, you may have additional crew members/mechanics aboard.
NR (former Chinook pilot)
August 14th, 2007 at 11:33 pmVolunteer to protect their country, not to steal other´s people resources.
Unborn babies? I think thats a new medical term. Good thing we have geniuses here.
Comment by Juan C — August 14, 2007
we havent taken any of the iraqi oil JUAN, but based on your name I assume you came over the border and stole our resources
August 15th, 2007 at 12:12 am>The big difference is our military volunteered, unborn babies didnt have a >choice when a dr vacuumed them out
neither did the iraqi fetuses we killed along with their host. at least those fetuses had mothers who wanted them.
tony, are you equating embyros smaller than the period at the end of a sentence with a human life? if you could run into a burning building and you can either save a baby or a dish of embryos, which would you choose?
I think everyone who supports abortion would agree that the embry should be removed from its host as close to conception as possible..
> More people have died from cancer then the plague moron
And more people have tied from slipping in the bathtub than from terrorists.
So what, that doesnt keep people from freaking out about “terror”…
August 15th, 2007 at 1:46 amBush needs to set a date to get all our troops out of Iraq. We can no longer win this civil war. Maliki is unable to make any political progress in Iraq. We can’t afford to lose any more troops there. They should be brought home soon. The Iraq experiment has failed.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:23 amNR, we said the SAME thing! Being former aviation myself, we still don’t know as much as wikipedia, or other SME’s around these parts, I guess! wtfever, lol.
Craig Mack, I understand your point. When it comes to politicians, I gave up long ago. Too bad a mandatory military service term isn’t a requirement for running for public office. As for the sides of those that opposose the war/troops and those that support them, I just don’t know. I feel that as both sides “battle” each other, it just complicates things further. While I appreciated my immediate family and friends’ support on my various tours and endeavors, I would have then, and still now, prefer that people do NOT speak for me. I didn’t enjoy my time on ground in Iraq, but I definitely didn’t want anyone demanding my, or our return, because it just takes focus away from our work at hand. It is all a distraction. I know some people mean well, but after all the experiences I have been though, I take offense to anyone who implies to know what is best for ME, when they have not walked a yard in my boots. I am no longer in the Army, but I know that when I was, I didn’t give a sh*t what anyone had to say on the other side, as long as I was still right there next my brothers(and Sisters) in arms.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:30 amFive personnal is standard in Iraq, two pilots, two crew chiefs, and a gunner. And they are not wasted. I’m Chinook pilot and I’ve been to Iraq to defend this country. What we do over there is for the good of the US and the world.
I am grateful that men like that lived and were willing to serve their country.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:15 pmWhether 5 were needed or not, whether they volunteered or not, regardless of the complexities of the debate, these were still 5 human beings. One of them was my nephew.
August 16th, 2007 at 9:50 amThe war came home to me in a very real way today. I got a call from my son in Iraq. His first words were ” Noah and I are OK”. Sadly, five of his friends are dead.
A CH47D Chinook crashed yesterday while leaving the base. All aboard were killed. Several of my son’s friends witnessed the crash. It is under investigation now.
http://armyaircrews.com/chinook.html
All were my son’s friends. The Chinook community is pretty small (this unit is about 80 guys), and these guys were in Alaska until July 7th. My wife and I were in Fairbanks visiting from June 12 thru July 1. They left for Kuwait on July 7th and just got into Iraq a few weeks ago.
I just spoke with my son again briefly, he was on duty and told me about the aircrew site. One of the KIA’s, Fisher (Fish age 19) was married just before he left.
Let’s keep them and the famlies in our thoughts and prayers.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:40 pmI just spoke with my daughter-in-law returning from the McFarland’s
visiting with Jackie’s wife. The McFarlands have two kids age 3 & 7.
There are 5 famalies that will never be the same.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:56 pmThe aviation community in the Army in general is small and tight knit. I also have lost friends in the community in Iraq. Regardless of what a servicemember does, it’s tough for everyone when they give their all in combat. It’s just that much more difficult in aviation because we all know each other…..my prayers are with the crew and their families.
August 17th, 2007 at 9:00 amHell, we fit our entire company on a chinook coming from biap to our fob. that was the crew, including 29 people with full gear, two duffles and ruck each. all on one chinook. but according to wikipedia, a chinook only has three people on it at any time. go figure.
August 18th, 2007 at 3:49 amOk, I know that 3700 is a lot of people, we won’t argue that. We didn’t find out until 2 days later that my brother wasn’t on this helicopter. I have close family over there. He is doing what he loves. He wasn’t forced to join the Army, it was his choice. Yes, I think Bush is a moron, but I will always stand behind the soldiers. Everyone knows the risk when they sign up for the military. They do it because it is what they want and believe they can make a difference. So, quit arguing about what is right and wrong, and start supporting the people who have died to give morons like you all the right to be such idiots in public.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm