Rove’s atheism reconsidered?
By on Aug 14th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Rove’s atheism reconsidered?
Christopher Hitchens on Rove:
I know something which is known to few but is not a secret. Karl Rove is not a believer, and he doesn’t shout it from the rooftops, but when asked, he answers quite honestly. I think the way he puts it is, “I’m not fortunate enough to be a person of faith.”
Rove, addressing President Bush:
At month’s end, I will join those whom you meet in your travels, the ordinary Americans who tell you they are praying for you. Like them, I will ask for God’s continued gifts of strength and wisdom for you and your work, your vital work for our country and the world, and for the Almighty’s continued blessing of our great country.
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Those facing combat and Prison time are rarely atheists. you can guess which one Rove might be facing.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:33 pmRove lied — one way or another.
Gee, go figure. What a suprise.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:34 pm“I will ask for God’s continued gifts of strength and wisdom for you and your work”
- what a joker that God is….
August 14th, 2007 at 8:35 pmHe’s just the Repukes’ lead hypocrite. Since he has no soul, he doesn’t know or care about his own beliefs. It doens’t matter what he says, anyway, since he’s always calculating for political gain. Being beaten up by a little girl and having one of his parents commit suicide took away every shred of his humanity. He is a ghoul, a zombie.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:36 pmLying hypocrite.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:37 pmThis man will say/do anything. He would sell his mother if it meant it would play well in the polls.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:37 pmRove has no conscience. He has no sense of morality. No sense of responsibility. He uses whatever suits him at the moment to make whatever gain he can.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:39 pmMy bumper sticker reads “missin’ a conscience” with a picture of Bush — it could just as easily be Rove.
Playing it up to the hilt – to the end.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:39 pmThis is the heart of contemporary republicanism: if you say it you don’t have to live it. Rove (and Bush) is neither compasioniate or conservative. He values no one’s family but his own, he only cares about the propaganda value of pre-human cells. And he certainly doesn’t live by the precepts of Jesus. He is a fraud and the sheeple who continue to fall for it are fools.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:40 pmKeeps the 27%’ers thinking they’re men of god, almost everything you hear is well scripted before hand, and just as fake as the WWE. Which seems to have huge followings in red states as well. :)
August 14th, 2007 at 8:42 pmWhaaaaat?
KKKarl a hypocrite?? You expect me to believe that???
/snark
August 14th, 2007 at 8:44 pmWhat?!? Karl Rove said something that panders to the base?!?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:47 pmBush’s brain is an atheist. That explains everything.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:48 pmThat can’t be!
August 14th, 2007 at 8:49 pmI just heard on the “Librul” media that all the Librul presidential candidates are phonies when they mention God or their fath.
Bush’s brain is an atheist. That explains everything, the black holes, torture, poverty, war and carnage…
August 14th, 2007 at 8:50 pm“Those facing combat and Prison time are rarely atheists. you can guess which one Rove might be facing.
Comment by Krazny — August 14, 2007″
Which one and why?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:52 pm“Rove lied — one way or another.
Comment by attaturk — August 14, 2007″
He did? Explain?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:52 pm“Ah, practicing your 3rd grade grammar lesson again?
How many times have you failed, and repeated? Ah the joys of home schooling from a crack-ho mom!
Comment by HeyKKKarl_ValiantVenusShotFromUranus — August 14, 2007″
I take it that means you can’t answer the question?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:54 pmWhat are the Christians to think?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:55 pmRove took this massacre, our flag and draped it around the Christian’s cross.
“almost everything you hear is well scripted before hand
Comment by Dick Stalin Cheney — August 14, 2007″
Give us an example?
August 14th, 2007 at 8:56 pmA complex man like the Honorable Karl Rove will keep you Libs guessing for decades!
August 14th, 2007 at 8:57 pmmichael,
The fact that Rove billed Bush as a conservationist,or a uniter, or a Christian would give one a small inkling of his mendacity.
August 14th, 2007 at 8:58 pmMalicious,
August 14th, 2007 at 9:00 pmComplex, Rove? All you need to know is he’s a liar.
Before Rove ass even hit the W.H door he was lying. The leaving to spend time with the family bit was what Cheney told Paul O’Niel to say after they axed him. He told C No I won’t lie.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI think that’s called hedging his bets.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:05 pmI’m agnostic. Although I am not a believer, I would feel comfortable wishing the person who does believe continued blessings from his or her God; out of respect for their beliefs.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:10 pmHas anyone seen Jeff Gannon, or Mr President? Meeting both for a night of raunchy sex.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:12 pmKarl Rove spoke of god disingenuously? This is the least surprising thing I’ve read in my life.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:12 pmWho’s this KKKarl? Do we have an imposter?
August 14th, 2007 at 9:13 pmActually, I’m fagnostic for Ann Coulter
August 14th, 2007 at 9:14 pmWouldn’t it have been smarter to pander to the base before resigning?
—————————-
August 14th, 2007 at 9:14 pm- Help End Muslim Man’s Burden
I’m searching here for something about zebras and stripes…to coin a phrase, “I can’t recall.”
August 14th, 2007 at 9:16 pmI doubt he’s “leaving” anything. I think he’ll be working for whatever candidate emerges for the Republicans, probably someone stupid and easy to control (oh wait, they all qualify…but most likely Romney or Fred Thompson). He already set up all his partisan hacks throughout the federal government to help any candidate he works for. If it goes down to another Supreme Court decision like in 2000, it’s in the bag. The Dems would be wise to pursue charges against him before he can do any more damage to our country.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:17 pmDespite being a detestable weasel I think I may have to give Rove a pass on this one. I too am a skeptic with regard to all the faith hocus pocus but I can still offer kind words to those folks I know who find religion to be an important support in their worlds. There’s plenty of other bad karma for this fellow to have to contend with
August 14th, 2007 at 9:18 pmOk let’s bag on Hitchens…come on the guy is liquored up every time he goes on RealTime…it’s great! You gotta love this guy he is like an excessively drunk Poly Sci professor with an English accent. I bet he bags some major right wing hotties who think he is dangerous…
Anyway the point besides observing the obvious drunkard is that like a drunk he often has a blunt truth, does anyone with a brain buy that these Bushies are real religious types? I am mean come on they kill people with little remorse and lie like crazy. If there is a God, these guys are going to be in hell, hell, hell with some serious boiling oil. Me thinks Jesus isn’t all about forgiving people who utilize his name to basically do whatever they please at the expense of everyone else…of I forgot their Jesus forgives just them since they are the real Christians and smites everyone else…nice.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:19 pmSo someone explain to me just how crazy a person has to be to pray to a God they don’t believe in…
:|
August 14th, 2007 at 9:21 pmRove claiming to be an atheist is almost enough to make me turn Christian out of sheer disgust, and that’s saying a lot.
But then again, Rove is as relevant to atheism as Bush is to Christianity and Osama is to Islam. That is: not at all. They are simply repugnant examples of subhuman slime.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:26 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 14, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Rent “Elmer Gantry”.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:27 pmComment by ThinkProgressIsRadicalLiberalism — August 14, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
I myself try not to blindly believe anything. So if your ideas are true for the people you describe, how would you say that they compare to something more right of center. Let’s say… “Dittoheads”? Thanks.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:28 pm“As an example of this, take his latest book. In his latest book, he bases his thesis that all religion is poisonous on nothing except his bigoted, atheist opinion.”
Sounds like the opinion of a bigoted theist.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:28 pm“As an example of this, take his latest book. In his latest book, he bases his thesis that all religion is poisonous on nothing except his bigoted, atheist opinion.â€
Sounds like the opinion of a bigoted theist.
As is this:
“Many of the brain-dead posters here are so gullibly naive that they simple-mindedly believe everything that one of their liberal Fuehrers writes.”
Forgive me for not falling all over myself in deference to your clear-headed objectivity.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:30 pmBeing a hypocrite goes back to biblical times. The current religious right is making a redux of the Pharisees.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:33 pm“Those facing combat and Prison time are rarely atheists. you can guess which one Rove might be facing.
Comment by Krazny — August 14, 2007″
Which one and why?
Comment by michael — August 14, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Oh michael, if you’re not smart enough to deduce the meaning of my single sentence, perhaps this message board is a little to tough for you. Maybe go back to your GI Joes, and pretend you can beat the commies.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:37 pmRent “Elmer Gantryâ€.
Comment by WaltTheMan — August 14, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
August 14th, 2007 at 9:39 pmGreat movie ! Burt lancaster at his best. I always that sister Falconer was supposed to be Aimlee Semple Mc Pherson[sic] of the 20’s.
If anything, Rove HAS to be a man of God …
Only to look good, its a veneer. Rove wanted very low taxes and for the rich, even if it gave the US a huge deficit.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:44 pmRent “Elmer Gantryâ€.
Comment by WaltTheMan — August 14, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
I read Lewis as a young man.
Rove has some of his traits but Gantry could get poontang.
The only pusse Rove’s ever seen is when he looks in a mirror.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:45 pmAnd any hope Rove ever had of getting laid went out the door the minute the tape of him doing the “MC Rove shuffle” at the White House corrosponents dinner.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:50 pmRove HAS to be a man of God because of his solid belief in principles that are good for the US: a strong defense, less government, low taxes, sanctity of marriage, and anti-abortion to name a few.
Comment by ThinkProgressIsRadicalLiberalism — August 14, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
ah yes what commandment is that thou shalt bomb up thy enemies, the bible doesn’t even mention government except to say that it is the world of man and that it is controled by the Lucifer and refuses it when Lucifer offers it to him. Have you opened the bible or just listen to your local preacher. Some people would rather have someone think for them so don’t have to do the heavy lifting.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:53 pmIn a footnote on Wikipedia:
“However, in a discussion with members of the Junior State of America, Rove, when asked whether or not he is an atheist stated that Hitchens’ comments were misleading, saying, “I’m an Episcopalian … God’s chosen frozen”. Rove went on to state that sometimes his religion overly stresses the importance of moderation and that he “sometimes wish[es] [he] ha[s] as much faith as some of my colleagues”. Hitchens, Christopher. Interview with Borish Kachka. Are You There, God? It’s Me, Hitchens.. New York.”
Personally, I don’t believe there is a shred of truth in Rove or Bush’s supposed religious beliefs. They worship only one thing.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:55 pm““I’m an Episcopalian … God’s chosen frozenâ€.” – rove
Oh, thank Jeebus!! The pig is not an atheist.
Sorry, Christians, it looks like he’s one of yours after all.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:06 pmchad,
“Have you opened the bible or just listen to your local preacher. Some people would rather have someone think for them so don’t have to do the heavy lifting.”
Thats it. So when Rove tells all the fundie churches how to vote they obey.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:07 pmThese are the same two guys (Bush and Rove) overheard laughing and making jokes about how stupid and gullible conservative Christians are. Why would they stop playing that card now?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:08 pmThe only reason Rove and Hitchins get along is because Rove is always talking about someone getting bombed and Hitchins is always bombed.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:08 pmaccording to lt. col. ralph kauzlarich this means that when karl dies (as an atheist) he’ll just wind up being “worm dirt”.
trolls, your thoughts?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:13 pmkarl = wormdirt
– Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich
August 14th, 2007 at 10:14 pmRove.
Ick.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:18 pmWere all wormdirt after we die.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:18 pmThe good news is, when things die, worms get fat.
oh my, two cosmic conjunctions in the same day….
August 14th, 2007 at 10:20 pmwelcome back Zooey :)
Were all wormdirt after we die.
The good news is, when things die, worms get fat.
Comment by Raven — August 14, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
Why do the worms always get lead billing? Please don’t forget the numerous fungal and bacterial species. When things die, microbes divide!
August 14th, 2007 at 10:24 pmkarl = wormdirt
– Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich
Comment by joe cantwell — August 14, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
joe=wormdirt
August 14th, 2007 at 10:24 pmronjazz=wormdirt
Bush=wormshit
Rove=wormshiteater
Hello, Raven! :)
We must continue to meet like this….
August 14th, 2007 at 10:24 pmRove.
Ick.
Comment by Zooey — August 14, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
Come on. You mean you don’t like greasy palmed triple chin’d overweight balding neocon doughboys?
You’re not turned on by those beady eyes or that piglike snout adorned with the Ben Franlin spectacles?
Whats wrong with you?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pm(Hi Zooey)
Considering all the worms I’ve tortured to death, through my fishing obsession, I figure they deserve a shot at me when I’m dead.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pmYoud’ think women would appreciate a man who can wear polyester 7 days a week.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:27 pmYoud’ think women would appreciate a man who can wear polyester 7 days a week.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Because they don’t need ironing?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:32 pmWhats wrong with you?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 14, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
Heh. I must be crazy or shallow, but the doughboy look never really did it for me. :D
That wispy hair is mesmerizing……
August 14th, 2007 at 10:33 pmBecause they don’t need ironing?
Comment by Raven — August 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
That’s a rarity — a man who likes to be ironed….
August 14th, 2007 at 10:34 pmThat wispy hair is mesmerizing……
Comment by Zooey
Doesn’t it make you want to get the propane torch out,
August 14th, 2007 at 10:34 pmand just be done with it once and for all?
Comment by Raven — August 14, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
Oh god, yes. I bet it would melt like cotton candy — and smell like evil.
Geez……looks like I’m not allowed to address the B-person again.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:39 pmI probably shouldn’t even say this what with it being off topic and all but I once had a student who had watched her dad beat her mom then light her up with a propane torch. You can imagine it was hard. I am not sure if i did a good job or not. I wonder what happened to her
August 14th, 2007 at 10:43 pmis it being suggested that rove is a cynical manipulator?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pmComment by dbadass — August 14, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
That’s horrible! That poor girl, I hope she didn’t repeat the cycle. Sadly, that happens quite often….
August 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pmsorry, dbadass, it’s not the first time my fertile imagination has conjured up someones real life tragedy…
(If you even have the thought of wondering if you did a good job, you DID.)
Oh, and I agree, mycellium is the king of the forest!
August 14th, 2007 at 10:47 pmI hate to jinx it, but is it unusually quiet this evening?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:47 pmis it being suggested that rove is a cynical manipulator?
Comment by tr
Oh, goodness no!
August 14th, 2007 at 10:48 pmFar from cynical, he seems to be quite cheerful about it!
Weird thing about it was the mother told me about in an openhouse conference. Showed me the scares and all. It was so surreal. Anyway let’s move on now…
August 14th, 2007 at 10:51 pmAnyway let’s move on now…
Comment by dbadass — August 14, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
One more question — Was the father still in the home?
August 14th, 2007 at 10:57 pmkarl always reminded me of “fred garvin, male prostitute”.
don’t know why, but he did.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:58 pmOne more question — Was the father still in the home?
Comment by Zooey — August 14, 2007 @ 10:57 pm
No as there was none. They were in a shelter. It was a long time ago. I think he was in jail on other charges but I can’t be sure. It was a total freak show.
August 14th, 2007 at 11:03 pmWell, really now, what did you expect from a guy who worked for the AntiChrist?
August 14th, 2007 at 11:06 pmComment by dbadass — August 14, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
Even homeless is better than that situation. Like you, I hope it turned out alright. I bet you helped a lot more than you know.
August 14th, 2007 at 11:10 pmAnd Raven, that mycellium has some of the tastiest fruits ever, I picked about 30 pounds of great mushrooms last weekend and am going for more this one.
It’s cool to think that the rotting detritus can taste so good.
August 14th, 2007 at 11:12 pmMiss Piggy’s a whore-
August 14th, 2007 at 11:17 pmRove HAS to be a man of God because of his solid belief in principles that are good for the US: a strong defense, less government, low taxes, sanctity of marriage, and anti-abortion to name a few.
Comment by ThinkProgressIsRadicalLiberalism — August 14, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
I’m always reminded of a gag cartoon poster if Bush-Cheney ran against Jesus:
1. Jesus says: Give to him who begs from you – Jesus favors more welfare for lazy people
2. Jesus says: Judge not lest ye be judged – Jesus is soft on crime
3. Jesus says: Render unto caesar that which are caesars – Jesus will raise your taxes
4. Jesus says: do not resist one who is evil – …turn the other cheek – Can we trust Jesus in the war on terror?
Jesus: wrong on social services, wrong on crime, wrong on taxes, wrong on defense.
Jesus: wrong for America
Paid for by Bush-Cheney 2004
August 14th, 2007 at 11:17 pmso glad to see an athiest separating politics and religion!!!
August 14th, 2007 at 11:27 pmwtf??? kinda like Ken Mehlman being gay. I have no problem with gays or atheists … but I do have a problem with self loathing, deceitful people running the country. one can only help but wonder how things could have possible gone awry. maybe if Bush & Cheaney had actually given a s*&t about the Iraqi people, we wouldn’t be in such a quagmire there as well.
sorry for the rant, but unbelievable the hypocrisy.
August 14th, 2007 at 11:36 pmI noted the same thing to my wife. Why is Karl Rove getting all-choked up and saying that he will be praying to God when he is a self-described atheist? David Kuo, in his stint in the White House was very frustrated that Karl Rove thought so little of Christians, or any religious people, but was willing to use them for political purposes.
I wonder if Karl Rove ever has a genuine utterance. I don’t think so. I think every word that comes out of his mouth has been scripted and practiced for effect.
Well, almost every word. I still have to laugh at Karl Rove’s reaction when Sheryl Crow and Laurie David confronted him at the correspondent’s dinner about global warming. To paraphrase:
KR: “Don’t touch me – I work for the American People!”
Sheryl Crow: “You work for us – we *are* the American people”.
Ah, an unscripted moment! He got out of there really quickly. Evidently he is not quick-witted, or good on his feet.
Oh Karl, when you write your book and go on your high-paid speaking tour, please be sure not to miss the Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert shows. Start trembling now – you know your publisher will require it to promote your book.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:21 amOr, it could be that Christopher Hitchens was mistaken.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:23 amTerrytheTurtle said:
“Jesus: wrong on social services, wrong on crime, wrong on taxes, wrong on defense.
“Jesus: wrong for America
“Paid for by Bush-Cheney 2004″
That’s a really good one! Thanks!
August 15th, 2007 at 12:31 amThat wispy hair is mesmerizing……
Comment by Zooey — August 14, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
Which one?
August 15th, 2007 at 12:35 amwmholt:
I have never heard Rove say he was an atheist. Which “God” do atheists pray to? And, I’m not sure one is more out of touch. Sheryl “The best way to solve problems is to not have enemies” Crow thinking she and her friend assaulting Rove represent “the American people†or Karl Rove, who actually does have the support of 30% of the American people (90 million of us)?
August 15th, 2007 at 12:36 amKarl Rove, who actually does have the support of 30% of the American people (90 million of us)?
Comment by Jake D. — August 15, 2007 @ 12:36 am
LMAO. You guys should just try shutting up for a while so people will forget how stupid you are.
Thats 30 percent of the “VOTING” public, Einstein.
:|
30 percent of the VOTING public.
You should know to stay away from anything math.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:41 amAnd I doubt its that high.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:42 amDon’t they train you guys before sending you in here?
August 15th, 2007 at 12:44 amFor the record, Gallup polling has kept track of Presidential Job Approval ratings since 1945 and Truman — Gallup does NOT limit questioning to likely voters — the latest 31% rating was based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of 1,004 adults, aged 18 and older, conducted July 12-15, 2007:
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1723
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=28150
August 15th, 2007 at 12:50 amThey get their call sheets from voter registration rolls genius.
Keep googling.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:55 amBut if you think that 90 million Americans support Bush, then by your calculations, almost 200 million do not.
:|
Beat that with a stick.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:56 amBetter yet, let me beat you with a stick.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:57 amThat explains the evil of the past seven years, the brain has no morals.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:57 amI actually worked for Gallup once, and I know first hand that telephone numbers are NOT from voter registration rolls, genius.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:57 amOr you can beat yourself with a stick if you prefer.
That’d be fun too.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:57 amGo ahead. Paste us the quote from their webstie that says they don’t get their call sheets from voter registration records.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:02 amOnce you stop moving the goalposts, let me know, so I can comment for the record.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:03 amBush and Rove live in a bubble in which nothing bad happens. They both are so divorced from reality. The American people have given up on this president and his policies in Iraq. Their continued efforts to paint a rosy picture in Iraq hurts their own credibility. Their policies are bad for America.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:03 amFor the record, the D in Jakes handle stands for dumbass.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:04 am“That explains the evil of the past seven years, the brain has no morals.” – mikeh
That’s amusing, but I can assure you that atheists are as moral as anyone else. One’s morals do not correlate to one’s belief in supernatural fantasies.
Quite the contrary, the world is loaded with immoral slime who are Christians, Muslims, and other flavors of theist. I assume I don’t need to cite examples.
In any case, as noted earlier, Rove the Slug proclaims himself an Episcopalian.
We should be so lucky as to have a president with the guts to admit he/she believes only in reality, or at least keeps his/her supernatural beliefs private and disconnected from decision-making.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:08 amI didn’t move any goal posts you twit.
You provided links that do not say they do not draw their call sheets from voter registration lists. They simply said the subjects were “randomly” selected.
And anyone who’s done polling that these call sheets from which they randomly select voters are taken from voter registration lists.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:08 amLOL!!!
“In the case of The Gallup Poll, we start with a list of all household telephone numbers in the continental United States. This complicated process really starts with a computerized list of all telephone exchanges in America, along with estimates of the number of residential households those exchanges have attached to them. The computer, using a procedure called random digit dialing (RDD), actually creates phone numbers from those exchanges, then generates telephone samples from those. In essence, this procedure creates a list of all possible household phone numbers in America and then selects a subset of numbers from that list for Gallup to call.
It’s important to go through this complicated procedure because estimates are that about 30% of American residential phones are unlisted. Although it would be a lot simpler if we used voter rolls or phone books to obtain listed phone numbers in America and sampled from them (much as you would if you simply took every 38th number from your local phone book), we would miss out on unlisted phone numbers, and introduce a possible bias into the sample.”
http://media.gallup.com/PDF/FAQ/HowArePolls.pdf
August 15th, 2007 at 1:13 amWell at least he knows that it all a mith…..still hate the SOB though…..being an atheist does not mean you are on the goodside all the time….there is the darkside……Karl, I am your father……breath….breath…..breath….cough, cough
August 15th, 2007 at 1:15 am“I don’t know. Just get me a f—cking faith-based thing. Got it?â€
August 15th, 2007 at 1:15 amKarl Rove to David Kuo, Administrator in the White House Office of Faith-Based Initiatives (which had the sole purpose of motivating religious, conservative GOP religious voters at taxpayer expense), early 2001.
Rove also referred to evangelicals as “The Nuts” to Kuo.
I forgot their Jesus forgives just them since they are the real Christians and smites everyone else…nice.
Comment by Hitchens is a drunk — August 14, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Yeah, what’s up with God letting people perish just because they don’t believe in Him? ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 1:17 amTry reading your own material before quoting from it nimrod.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:21 amWhen the subject of the poll is part of the electoral process, pollsters normally draw their call sheets from REGSITERED US VOTERS and THEN randomize the list.
You’re just batting zero, huh?
August 15th, 2007 at 1:22 amUpright left; That is part of the evidence against the existance of God…it is all made up by primative humans….take 2 minutes of critical thought and it is all over for the God stuff……was smart enough at 12 years old to figure that out.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:26 amAnd yes I went to church with family every Sunday till I moved out (Vietnam service) out of respect for my family….just they were not smart enough to figure it out.
Either way you lost though. In fact, I like your numbers better.
By my standards, only about 75 to 80 million Americans want to run you out of town.
By your standards, almost 200 million Americans want to run you out of town.
:D
I’ll take your standard.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:26 amThat is part of the evidence against the existance of God…
Comment by Buck Fush — August 15, 2007 @ 1:26 am
God’s plan doesn’t suit ya, so it must be wrong? Well, fortunately, God allowed you to make that choice for yourself. Hope it works out for ya in the end. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 1:29 amSure does….what doesn’t exist cannot harm me…..and I am a better christian than any christian I have ever met by the way
August 15th, 2007 at 1:31 am“there is the darkside……Karl, I am your father……breath….breath…..breath….cough, cough”
Must be Darth Cheney talking…
August 15th, 2007 at 1:32 amSure does….what doesn’t exist cannot harm me…..and I am a better christian than any christian I have ever met by the way
Comment by Buck Fush — August 15, 2007 @ 1:31 am
God isn’t the one who will do the harm. If you’re last statement is true, you’ve only met people who call themselves Christians, not the real thing. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 1:35 amJust that I have taken in to my home many friends and others, who have fallen to drugs and booze, or have been stranded by the Iraq war and lost their way and they needed a hand….I don’t know ANY christians that have done that.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:41 amSo far 9 people that I have helped thru very troubling times and put them on the path to self reliance….without ever even asking for a thankyou….just us Atheist’s style of helping our fellow humans
Hope it works out for ya in the end. ;)
Comment by upright left — August 15, 2007 @ 1:29 am
Oh I’m sure.
I’m sure you hope it works out for your fellow bretheren in the end, with your little wink there.
I’m sure you have Chrisitianity coming out of your ears.
You probably crap crucifixes too.
But in case you haven’t bothered to read that book you carry around on Sunday to impress the chix with, try glancing over the sermon on the mount sometime, and see what your future holds.
See you at the fish fry jackass.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:42 amjust us Atheist’s style of helping our fellow humans
Comment by Buck Fush — August 15, 2007 @ 1:41 am
Agnostics are nice too.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:45 amComment by BARTLEBEE — August 15, 2007 @ 1:42 am
My future is grand, bartie boy, just grand! ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 1:47 amJust that I have taken in to my home many friends and others, who have fallen to drugs and booze, or have been stranded by the Iraq war and lost their way and they needed a hand….I don’t know ANY christians that have done that.
So far 9 people that I have helped thru very troubling times and put them on the path to self reliance….without ever even asking for a thankyou….just us Atheist’s style of helping our fellow humans
Comment by Buck Fush — August 15, 2007 @ 1:41 am
I assure you there are Christians doing the same thing, as well as building and/or remodeling homes and providing jobs for just such people. I just returned from a trip doing the same. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 1:51 amYes they are Bartlebee….all those people, of which one Iraq veteran that I helped thru 3 quarters of college and in the last 4 weeks got their own appartment and job to start a new life, I now have another person that had tried to move move to help their aging parents and the father was way too abusive (physical and vervbal), she was sleeping in her car, now she is staying with us till she can get an appartment…the list of people that my wife and I have pulled out of destruction is great….the 9 people I told of are people that spent at least 9 months to a year or more with us….we follow the words of Chirst but just don’t believe in God…..simple, treat your fellow man as you would yourself.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:51 amThat is good Upright left…just I have yet to meet one of you…..too bad really, I do so weap for the downdroden, and beaten. Just so you know that us Atheist are just like you, we love our fellow human also, just are much as you do.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:54 am“you’ve only met people who call themselves Christians, not the real thing” – upright left
Yeah, well, that’s part of the problem, isn’t it? So many Christians seem to think they have a lock on the ultimate definition on what is “the real thing”.
I think if you look a little more deeply, what you see is that good people aren’t good because they’re “real Christians”. If they happen to be Christian, that’s coincidental. Goodness stands all by itself, without sect or denomination. The traits that Christians generally attribute to “Christian behavior” are really humanist and pragmatic attributes. Caring about other people and the Golden Rule are certainly not Christian-specific.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:54 am“I assure you there are Christians doing the same thing” – upright left
No kidding – there are some Christians who are as good as atheists. All this proves is that there is not a correlation between Christianity and non-Christianity.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:57 amThank you Gorn by any other name…it is so often hard to explain that yes, us atheist or otherwise are also moral. Was gonna add more but that would be all ego..my bad….hard to hold the standard of humanity sometimes
August 15th, 2007 at 1:58 am“God’s plan doesn’t suit ya, so it must be wrong? Well, fortunately, God allowed you to make that choice for yourself.” – upright left
Incredibly arrogant to think you know “God’s plan” as well as God’s mind (”allowed you to make that choice”). All this from theology built on ancient middle eastern writings by human beings, full of human error and subject to human power/money/politics.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:00 amYeah, well, that’s part of the problem, isn’t it? So many Christians seem to think they have a lock on the ultimate definition on what is “the real thingâ€.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 1:54 am
The only “real thing” I mentioned is whether a person is really a Christian or just claims to be. I know very well that there many good people who are not Christians. Of course one doesn’t have to be a Christian to be a good person. What I responded to didn’t concern goodness, but deciding that God doesn’t exist or turning away from Him because we don’t think his rules are what they should be. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:04 amIncredibly arrogant to think you know “God’s plan†as well as God’s mind (â€allowed you to make that choiceâ€). All this from theology built on ancient middle eastern writings by human beings, full of human error and subject to human power/money/politics.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:00 am
Not arrogant at all. He made it clear to all who want to know. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:08 am“Was gonna add more but that would be all ego.” - Buck Fush
I know what you mean. I almost did the same thing, but thought better of it, since nobody would know if I was telling the truth or not.
It’s certainly a complex subject – too complex to dig far in this forum. For example, the point can be made that many hardcore Christian attributes lead to immoral behavior. The specific attributes and behavior depend on the sect. Some examples: child sexual abuse, murder of doctors, misogyny, group suicide, oppression, genocide.
There are those who will claim that without fear of God, humans will have no morality. The truth is, if you need the fear of eternal punishment in order to exhibit moral values and ethical behavior, there is something seriously wrong with you.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:12 am“Not arrogant at all. He made it clear to all who want to know.” - upright left
Unfortunately, your logic is entirely circular.
You have no evidence for this extraordinary claim other than your holy scriptures. In order to believe the claim you must believe the scriptures which are, in fact, full of unbelievable things, errors, and contraditictions. Tell me why I should believe the scriptures. (Hint: you can’t say because it’s God’s word – that would be circular.)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:16 amYeah, Gorn by any other name, I just seldom get a semi rational responce by any christian and Upright left was doing a good job not taken offence and going on the attack.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:17 amIt’s just that I get sooooo tired of some fundimentalist types going off about how we Atheists can not be moral….I follow Christs TEACHING of love and tolerance, I just don’t buy the whole God thing….just seems very made up and well, just not right.
My future is grand, bartie boy, just grand! ;)
Comment by upright left — August 15, 2007 @ 1:47 am
Yea. Grand.
Grand theft. Grand larsony. Grandstanding.
And you’ll probably be tossed in a pit as deep as the Grand Canyon.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:18 amThere are those who will claim that without fear of God, humans will have no morality. The truth is, if you need the fear of eternal punishment in order to exhibit moral values and ethical behavior, there is something seriously wrong with you.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:12 am
You have a seriously twisted view of Christianity there, bud. I know a lot of Christians and I can’t name one who refrains from child abuse and murder only because they are worried about going to hell. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:20 amAnd you’ll probably be tossed in a pit as deep as the Grand Canyon.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 15, 2007 @ 2:18 am
Why do so many folks around here get so testy on the subject of going to hell when they claim not to believe in it, bartie? It appears that maybe some folks aren’t quite as certain as they would like to believe. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:24 amNo heaven, No hell, you make you’re own heaven and hell while you are here on earth, make the best of it. We are all stardust in the end.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:26 amWe are all stardust in the end.
Comment by Buck Fush — August 15, 2007 @ 2:26 am
Won’t it be interesting to see who is right? I’m looking forward to it! ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:28 am“You have a seriously twisted view of Christianity there, bud. I know a lot of Christians and I can’t name one who refrains from child abuse and murder only because they are worried about going to hell.” – upright left
You aren’t making much of an effort to read what I am writing. Of course most Christians are good by nature. They are humanists. Humans are generally good (meaning getting along in their environment) without any divine intervention. That was exactly my point.
However, there are the hardcore types who will claim that only “through Christ Jesus” can there be morality. I run into these arrogant people ALL THE TIME. I see them preaching on TV. I see them whispering in the ear of politicians. The implication of this seriously twisted view is that without fear of damnation, there cannot be morality, and thus atheists must be immoral.
It’s total crap of course, to anyone with functioning neurons.
Please take more effort to follow my point, which is not at all what you assumed. Thanks.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:30 amBeen dead for 7 minutes……no light at the end of the tunnel……dream on UPleft…..you won’t be surpised when you die, you won’t know what happened at all, it just happens and it is over, just be good to everyone you can on the way out.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:31 am“Won’t it be interesting to see who is right? I’m looking forward to it!” - upright left
Whatever floats your boat, to be sure. Power to you.
Just remember that if your behavior here on terra firma is influenced by your belief in what comes after, then your earthly behavior is disingenuous (or in the case of Islamic suicide bombers, much worse).
Buck Fush chooses to be good without any expectation or promises of after-death reward. I hope you do the same.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:35 amWon’t it be interesting to see who is right? I’m looking forward to it! ;)
Comment by upright left — August 15, 2007 @ 2:28 am
You’ll never see sh’t, that’s the point you delusional lunatic!
August 15th, 2007 at 2:36 amYou have a seriously twisted view of Christianity there, bud. I know a lot of Christians and I can’t name one who refrains from child abuse and murder only because they are worried about going to hell. ;) Comment by upright left — August 15, 2007 @ 2:20 am
How do you know why they didn’t commit crime? More mind reading of the ‘6-more-months’ variety? Many christians claim that they turned away from murder, crime and even molesting little boys (Foley?) through religion. Your ignorance of that ‘fact’ just shows what an apologist you are.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:38 amI do truely do that too, that is the problem that I see with so many of the so called christians that I meet. How in the world can they be christian when they (rarely) follow the doctrine that their savor has preached, there is really very little in common whit Christs teachings and what so many Christians do. I deem it as a real problem with their religion in general.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:42 amIt brings the question in my life, why aren’t christians as loving and careing of their fellow man than I am? And yet the Christian Right and Right Wing propaganda says that I cannot possibly be more moral than them.
That is what burns my cake.
“Many christians claim that they turned away from murder, crime and even molesting little boys (Foley?) through religion.” – OHH
Yes, but those aren’t real Christians.
Circular logic can be so useful, can’t it?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:43 amOpps, had a little too much wine with the company tonight, not typing totally correct.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:48 amThe homeless woman and her sister, trying to work some sort of family support here, but the sister seems to be a crack addict or something, gonna have to dig deeper here, crap, I hate crack addicts. Not the women we are helping, the sister of…she is out of the house, wow, this is gonna be a problem case.
Please take more effort to follow my point, which is not at all what you assumed. Thanks.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:30 am
You are correct, gorn, that I didn’t follow your point. I didn’t assume you would be referring to the characteristics of a few misguided Christians in a discussion of Christianity in general. ;)
——
Buck Fush chooses to be good without any expectation or promises of after-death reward. I hope you do the same.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:35 am
Being nice to people doesn’t earn the reward.
——
Comment by OHanlonsHemorrhoid — August 15, 2007 @ 2:36 am
Well, you won’t, anyway, hemorrhoid! ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:51 amGood luck all, and love to all….and I mean all, Atheists, Agonistics, Christians, Budists, Musliems, etc. May your life and health be the best that you can have. May all your dreams come true, and your family have good health.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:54 amToo bad us Atheist are so immoral…..wait a-minute we are not…go figure.
Love to all…nighters.
Circular logic can be so useful, can’t it?
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:43 am
It’s interesting how liberals here shift back and forth from calling people false Christians when they want to slam a particular person and then acting like there’s no such thing as a false Christian when they want to slam the entire religion. That can be useful too. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 2:56 am“I didn’t assume you would be referring to the characteristics of a few misguided Christians in a discussion of Christianity in general.” – upright left
I’m trying to be nice and not yell at you for not following the thread.
My discussion was derived from the comment from one poster who essentially stated that Rove’s alleged atheism explains why he has no morals.
I was never talking about Christianity in general. I was responding to someone who was making generalized statements about atheists.
“Being nice to people doesn’t earn the reward.”
I am prepared to hear your explanation of what generates the reward, and give my viewpoint on it, if you like. I had previously asked you to explain a non-circular reason why I should believe that your scriptures represent reality, and you passed on that particular challenge. Maybe you missed it.
This is a golden opportunity for you to evangelize. Convince me.
But please do it quickly as I’m not going to stay on line for much longer.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:58 am“It’s interesting how liberals here shift back and forth from calling people false Christians when they want to slam a particular person and then acting like there’s no such thing as a false Christian when they want to slam the entire religion. That can be useful too.” – upright left
Now you’re just making stuff up as you go along.
First of all, why toss up the “liberal” canard. You know nothing about my political/economic leanings.
Second, I never call anyone a “false Christian”, which to me is a double negative and makes no sense. That was pure invention on your part.
Third, at no time did I slam “the entire religion”. At most, you might say I slammed the hardcore fringe, or in other ways, religion in general (not Christianity in particular).
One of the tenets of Christianity, enshrined in the Ten Commandments, is honesty. Go back and read all my posts and tell me where what you are claiming above is at all justified. Or, do the “Christian thing” and apologize.
I admit I’m not above ripping a theist apart in a debate. I’ve done it many times. But in this thread, I’ve worked hard to be polite and respectful to you. Please show me the same courtesy.
Perhaps it is normal for you to be selective in your readings and interpretations.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:03 amThis is a golden opportunity for you to evangelize. Convince me.
But please do it quickly as I’m not going to stay on line for much longer.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 2:58 am
I have yet to encounter a single person on this site with whom I would attempt a serious discussion of the basis of my faith. One quickly learns to tell the difference between those who ask because they really want to know and those are only out to ridicule faith at every turn. Guess where you fall? Oh, and remember what a good and moral person you are before you respond. Also, you addressed my post with a reference to something prior and then posted a less than kind response when I didn’t answer how you wished. Maybe you aren’t as quite nice as you think you are, buddy. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 3:10 am“shut the f up, you’re a moron” – sam, presumably a good Christian
Quite possibly, but why not enlighten me.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:12 amPerhaps it is normal for you to be selective in your readings and interpretations.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 3:03 am
You really do an excellent job of seeing things as you want them to be! I mention liberals because the vast majority of those slamming religion on this site are liberals. Obviously, my comment wasn’t just to you in particular, but to posters here in general. If you don’t know that my comment is valid, then you and I have definitely not been reading the same threads. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 3:15 am“One quickly learns to tell the difference between those who ask because they really want to know and those are only out to ridicule faith at every turn.” – upright left
If I ridicule it, I will at least give my reasoning. Let it stand or fall on merit.
What are you afraid of?
“Maybe you aren’t as quite nice as you think you are, buddy. ;)”
I try to be nice, but I won’t suffer fools gladly either.
Your disingenous winkies are getting old, by the way.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:16 amI try to be nice, but I won’t suffer fools gladly either.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 3:16 am
Ah, my liberal, atheistic friend, now we come down to it. You are nice to those with whom you agree. Your altruism fades slightly. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 3:21 am“Ah, my liberal, atheistic friend” – upright left
Oh, so I AM a liberal after all? Do you want to go back up a couple posts and explain how you were trying to claim that label wasn’t being directed at me?
“You are nice to those with whom you agree.”
No, I’m nice to everyone except raging a-holes. So far, you’ve not been a raging a-hole in this conversation, and I’ve been nice in intent (though sometimes text doesn’t come across that way). If you start going ad hominem on me, I’ll tear you a new one, that’s all I’m saying.
But seriously, if you want to have a real discussion on religion, for God’s sake, let’s do it. But hurry up.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:31 amUpright Left:
Why is it that you don’t mind dropping mysterious hints like “you are turning from God”, “you are ignoring God’s plan”, “God gave you the option to choose”, “He told you if only you will listen”, “they aren’t REAL Christians”, and “being nice isn’t what gets you into heaven”;
August 15th, 2007 at 3:32 am(continuing)
Evangelize me. Convince me that your flavor of religion is more Truth than any other flavor, and more sensible than non-religion.
I am clay ready to be molded. I’m not saying it will be easy. In fact, I fully expect it to be impossible. But don’t you think God would want you to try? Don’t you think he wants you to give more than offhand platitudes? Don’t you think he wants you to back it up and spread the Word?
Show me The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Have the courage of your convictions.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:36 amWhy is it that you don’t mind dropping mysterious hints like “you are turning from Godâ€, “you are ignoring God’s planâ€, “God gave you the option to chooseâ€, “He told you if only you will listenâ€, “they aren’t REAL Christiansâ€, and “being nice isn’t what gets you into heavenâ€;
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 3:32 am
Mysterious? I would think all those phrases are crystal clear. If you have a real interest in having that discussion, call your local Christian church and you will find people very willing to talk to you. I have neither the time nor the inclination to have that particular discussion with one whom I’m reasonably certain is just looking for another opportunity to slam a Christian. You let me now how it goes. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 3:42 amTime’s up. I hope you don’t die tonight or you might need to explain your refusal to do the hard work of evangelizing the unbelievers.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:42 amTime’s up. I hope you don’t die tonight or you might need to explain your refusal to do the hard work of evangelizing the unbelievers.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 3:42 am
LOL Actually, you ought to hope you don’t die tonight, bud! ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 3:44 amupright left and gorn. I can sense you bother need someone common to hate, so you can bond; (i.e. enemy of my enemy style).
So, I’ll say it. You’re both going to hell. All your big thoughts and fancy words can’t prevent that. So, give it up and go to bed. (They probably don’t let you sleep – when you’re in hell).
August 15th, 2007 at 3:46 am“LOL Actually, you ought to hope you don’t die tonight, bud! ”
I’m content with my life’s decisions whether I die tonight or not.
You had your chance at straight up discussion. Honest talk. Honest debate. You refused.
You haven’t been an a-hole, just a bit obtuse and tellingly evasive.
I’m out.
LOL. Wink.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:47 amComment by upright left
Comment by gorn by any other name
Let’s all agree with this: None of us care for the Bush regime.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:51 amPeople still believe in fairy tales like hell in the 21st century? In the age of nuclear bombs and mars rovers?
August 15th, 2007 at 8:08 amIn a little-known provision in the Patriot Act, the President has been given the authority to speak directly for God. In this role, he has already pardoned Mr. Rove for any “sins” he may have committed in the course of his duties.
August 15th, 2007 at 8:19 amThe Almighty, American as Nascar.
August 15th, 2007 at 8:29 amYou had your chance at straight up discussion. Honest talk. Honest debate. You refused.
Comment by gorn by any other name — August 15, 2007 @ 3:47 am
Heh, heh. Ya know that apology you requested? I’ll go ahead and apologize in advance now. I apologize profusely if I’m mistaken. I hate to even suggest this, but I’m just the least little bit suspicious about your offer of “honest discussion, honest debate.” “Pardon” me if I’ve misjudged you, though. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 9:01 amTo be fair, I don’t understand why anyone listens to Christopher Hitchens, a drunk has-been war supporter who was never a good writer anyway.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:03 amThank you, John. That was my original point.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:39 amDoes is really matter whether Rove calls himself a Christian? Is that all it takes to be a true Christian??? Look at the policies of Bush that Rove created. They don’t want to help the tens of millions of sick who have no health coverage. They reduced spending on food stamps to help feed the poor. They engage in war against a nation that never attacked us. They condone torturing other human beings. They arrange their economic policies to help the most wealthy and ignore the poor. The gap between rich and poor is larger than ever. They left all the Katrina victims to die in New Orleans while Bush vacationed. They have money to spend destroying Iraq, but they ignore our infrastructure at home. They ruined the lives of people like Valerie Plame, who was serving her country honorably fighting nuclear proliferation. I could go on an on.
No matter what they label themselves, they are obviously NOT following the teachings of Jesus Christ.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:45 ambrianS
Does is really matter whether Rove calls himself a Christian? Is that all it takes to be a true Christian???
Pretty much. Hitler’s Germany was a highly Christian nation, and they stuck babies in gas ovens. The Pope at the time was highly Christian, and he declared the Catholic Church neutral to Nazi Germany.
Before that, you had Christians burning people at the stake, and it wasn’t just the Catholics doing that either.
Currently you have Christian priests who have a rather twisted view of what Jesus meant when he made that “Suffer the children” speech.
Christianity doesn’t exactly have stringent rules for people wanting to join up, or even be a leading light. You just have to say you believe and not think about it overmuch.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:52 ambrianS:
If the U.S. Constitution PROHIBITS the federal government from spending on such health coverage, food stamps, etc., you are saying a “Christian” cannot follow the Constitution? Try reading the Book of Romans someday.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:53 amBruce Gorton:
Actually, you DO have to believe and accept Jesus, not just say you do: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
August 15th, 2007 at 9:56 amIronically, Mr. Rove’s middle name is “Christian” ; )
August 15th, 2007 at 9:57 amThe only “requirement” I am aware of (from Romans 10:9):
“. . . if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
August 15th, 2007 at 10:00 amJake D
Humans can’t read other humans’ minds. We have to go on what someone says they are.
Besides that, the examples I listed really did believe that they were Christians, really did accept Jesus into their hearts and the whole bit, and they really did kill people for thinking differently to them.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:05 amThat said I must also point something out here:
Rove may well have converted under the influence of President Bush. It isn’t all that unlikely, you do get atheists who convert to Christianity.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:11 amPerhaps you missed the whole Old Testament where God directed the Israelites to kill men, women, AND children?
August 15th, 2007 at 10:23 amJake D.
Maybe there are still some Amelkite’s in need of killing in the Middle East?
I’m an Atheist, in part because I read the books.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:26 amMaybe — also, I’d wager I’ve read more books than you ; )
August 15th, 2007 at 10:44 amJake D.
Doubt it.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:48 amHumans can’t read other humans’ minds. We have to go on what someone says they are.
Besides that, the examples I listed really did believe that they were Christians, really did accept Jesus into their hearts and the whole bit, and they really did kill people for thinking differently to them.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 15, 2007 @ 10:05
We can’t read each others minds, yet you KNOW that Hitler truly accepted Jesus rather than just saying he did for the value that being considered a Christian offered him?
August 15th, 2007 at 10:59 amupright left
1: I didn’t say Hitler. I said Hitler’s Germany.
2: Hitler’s own words were highly specific on his religion, stating that he was a Christian most emphatically before and during his whole career. Mein Kampf is extremely clear on what Hitler thought of himself as being.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:09 amRove is no genius, evil or saintly.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:05 pmRove was nothing more than a back-room thug, a hatchet man for a crime boss.
Rove was good at cheating and stealing, that is all.
He was a chump at the top.
Stalin “I’m an Atheist/Seminarian” killed plenty 20 million plus.
Lowered the Soviets “carbon footprint”.
Stalin was ahead of his time. Atheist are good people.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:34 pmHitler was a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:35 pmWhy do so many folks around here get so testy on the subject of going to hell when they claim not to believe in it, bartie? It appears that maybe some folks aren’t quite as certain as they would like to believe. ;)
Comment by upright left — August 15, 2007 @ 2:24 am
Who said I didn’t believe in it “uprighty”?
August 15th, 2007 at 12:50 pmIn fact, you’re living proof that the devil exists.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:50 pmBob
Stalin, industrialised Russia. He enlarged Russia’s carbon footprint.
And frankly, I accept Stalin was an Atheist, why can’t you accept that your Christian monsters, weren’t?
August 15th, 2007 at 12:54 pmIn fact, you’re living proof that the devil exists.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 15, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
That really stings, bartie. Glad to know you are counted among the believers, though. ;)
August 15th, 2007 at 4:55 pm“I accept Stalin was an Atheist.”
Ditto. However, the comparison is meaningless. Stalin did not murder people in the name of atheism, as Hitler murdered for God.
Both awful people of the worst magnitude, but let’s compare apples to apples.
I’m not aware of anyone who has ever committed murder for the cause of atheism, but it’s quite a regular occurrence for the cause of one religion or another.
That has to mean something.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:02 pm“I hate to even suggest this, but I’m just the least little bit suspicious about your offer of “honest discussion, honest debate.†” – upright left
Well, you’re mistaken.
In any case, you did’t have much to lose. This is a discussion forum on a blog, and an anonymous one at that. Worst case, you could have shown me to be a liar and that’s the end of it.
The upside would have been a saved soul, an accomplishment that (I suppose) would improve your selection for heaven.
As I said, I don’t suggest your upside would be easily achieved. I’d be quite impressed if you could succeed. But who knows?
Oh well, I guess I’m just doomed to hell thanks to your fear of evangelization. *sniff*
August 15th, 2007 at 9:09 pm,
August 17th, 2007 at 8:04 am