Active-duty soldiers reject myth that escalation is working.
A group of infantrymen and officers of the 82nd Airborne Division write in the New York Times today that they are “skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable.” Reports of progress, they say, have “neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day.” They write:
The claim that we are increasingly in control of the battlefields in Iraq is an assessment arrived at through a flawed, American-centered framework. […]
In the end, we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect. They will soon realize that the best way to regain dignity is to call us what we are — an army of occupation — and force our withdrawal.
Until that happens, it would be prudent for us to increasingly let Iraqis take center stage in all matters, to come up with a nuanced policy in which we assist them from the margins but let them resolve their differences as they see fit. This suggestion is not meant to be defeatist, but rather to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.
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Well, Well.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:18 pmEveryone already knows the truth, yet they continue to act surprised. This is not news.
Mark my words: regardless of anything that happens, things will only get worse in Iraq. The situation cannot be unfu(ked.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:24 pmBravo, 82nd Airborne! Well done.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:26 pmAw, what do they know? They’re just soldiers. They’re so much lower in class than the enlightened, elite, wonderful spin-doctors that we are blessed with. Off with their heads!
August 19th, 2007 at 12:27 pmthey need to go a bit further, and call for mutiny, because this administration won’t stop.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:39 pmMakes me proud the 82nd still holding to principles and stating the truth not propaganda.
82nd is my old Division.
Hey, *Zooey/rose
Lost a post trying to reply to you.
Saw you tried to page “mongrel”. I put a reply at end of that thread this moring lol.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:49 pmOf course it’s an occupation. Do they really think we think it’s otherwise?
August 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pmKudos to the 82nd. It’s about time that the soldiers start speaking out. Unfortunately the consequences for them is going to be grim. They are risking their lives by speaking out. Remember what happened to Pat Tillman. Expect more “friendly fire” deaths in the near future involving the brave soldiers who choose to speak out.
The thing that galls me the most about the situation in Iraq is all the Sargents and Generals who keep sending their soldiers into hopeless situations where the chances are good that they will be killed. Don’t these people have any loyalty to their troops or has the Bush Crime Family so bastardized the military that all the officers must swear an oath to King George, their troops be damned.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:53 pmComment by Wayne — August 19, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
Hi Wayne, TP isn’t letting Zooey post this morning. Geez….
I though the 82nd was yours. Great guys!
Yeah, I called the airport and asked them to page “Dr William Dog,” it was very very important. He didn’t answer. Heh.
Have you jumped out of any airplanes yet?
August 19th, 2007 at 12:54 pmI salute the 82nd Airborne Division, both its current and past members. Thank you one and all. This country owes a huge debt of gratitude for what these brave men and women have done for us.
August 19th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThe thing that galls me the most about the situation in Iraq is all the Sargents and Generals who keep sending their soldiers into hopeless situations where the chances are good that they will be killed. Don’t these people have any loyalty to their troops or has the Bush Crime Family so bastardized the military that all the officers must swear an oath to King George, their troops be damned.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 19, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
I understand your frustration, but please keep in mind that military personnel are trained to accept one thing above all else: The mission comes first.
Your personal feelings cannot interfere with following orders, even if you know that you will die as a result. (That’s why they came up with the term “suicide mission”, because they knew that there would be times when someone would have to give his or her life in order to complete the mission.) If you have any beef at all, it should be with the president who ordered them on this mission, not the NCOs and Officers tasked with carrying out their orders.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pmHave you jumped out of any airplanes yet?
Comment by Rose Tyler
Tomorrow=)
eating in the hotel restraunt, then we are going sightsee the town a bit.
may be back on tonight, depends on how late we are out. =)
August 19th, 2007 at 1:03 pmthis story has been up for an hour at that stupid hot air blog, and there are four replies. so i guess all the trolls are awaiting fax/email instructions on how best to spin this one. notice the normally breathless trolls are silent here at tp, also. maybe they are all at church right now.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:04 pmmay be back on tonight, depends on how late we are out. =)
Comment by Wayne — August 19, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Have a great time, Wayne!!
August 19th, 2007 at 1:04 pmHave you jumped out of any airplanes yet?
Comment by Rose Tyler
Tomorrow=)
Comment by Wayne — August 19, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Oh, Wayne, please tell us someone is planning on sabotaging the plane so you have a good reason to jump out of it! :D
Enjoy your jump and have a safe landing (the most important part.)
August 19th, 2007 at 1:05 pmWhat do they know? They are just there, doing and seeing and responding in real time. Don’t they understand that the Cheney/Bush guided tours give a more credible picture of the marvelous improvements as a result of the surge? According to the rosy picture we get from hand-picked and closely-insulated observers, a Double-Surge would probably have all Iraqis converting to (fundie) Christianity, joining the Republic party, and watching American Idol every week.
Sorry for the snark-I marvel at these service-members’ courage in speaking out!
August 19th, 2007 at 1:07 pmI’m outta here for a while. I’ll check back later to see how well the trolls respect the troops. :-)
August 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmI’ll check back later to see how well the trolls respect the troops. :-)
Comment by Rose Tyler
They don’t/won’t, but their mommies sure let them sleep late on weekends…
August 19th, 2007 at 1:11 pmBut that’s not what O’Hanlon,Senator Lieberman(I),Pollack and Senator Graham(R) are saying…! They all said when they were there in Iraq,they went shopping rugs there,at a good price.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:14 pmYou know, just because they are active-duty, doesn’t automatically mean that they are correct. In fact, it’s safe to say that there are plenty of soldiers who are just plain wrong sometimes, they are only human after all.
Just sayin’
August 19th, 2007 at 1:18 pmWell, we all know that Betrayus’ report (written by the WH will totally refute this story………After all, they would have so much better intelligence (?) than anhyone actually on the ground, in harm’s way.
Chickenhawks are the most dangerous things that our troops are facing right now. It’s all about politics and money!
August 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pmHere in NC, we have high regard for our Fort Bragg soldiers, the 82nd Airborne. I’m more more inclined to believe with they have to say over the spin doctors and the people who have been to the neocon dog and pony shows.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pm“I understand your frustration, but please keep in mind that military personnel are trained to accept one thing above all else: The mission comes first.”
One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting a different result. So, are all these officers insane?
Somewhere along the line, these officers need to take personal responsibility for what they are doing. If they are ordered to keep performing the same mission over and over and over again, knowing that there is no way it can succeed, and that the soldiers they are in charge of are undoubtedly going to die, when do they say “enough is enough”?
That’s the point I was trying to make.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pmYou’re right Liberator, only Michael Yon is correct, cus he says the stuff that you already believe. You & Frank J are complete jokes. You only consider information that already supports your views, the rest you discard. Just sayin’.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:22 pmYou know, just because they are neoCONs, doesn’t automatically mean that they are correct. In fact, it’s safe to say that there are plenty of neoCONs who are just plain wrong sometimes, they are only human after all.
Just sayin’
There, I fixed it for you.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:23 pm“In fact, it’s safe to say that there are plenty of soldiers who are just plain wrong sometimes, they are only human after all.”
Franks, Rumsfeld, and Abizaid come readily to mind.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:25 pmAll’s I’m sayin’ is that no one is right all of the time, and just like Makros said, we shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a sort of “emotional blackmail.”
August 19th, 2007 at 1:27 pmThat’s the point I was trying to make.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 19, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
I understand, but that is not an option they have. For the sake of military discipline, all personnel must obey their orders. Enlisted people who sign contracts to serve x-number of years cannot simply “quit” without facing imprisonment. And officers may well be barred from resigning their commissions during wartime (I may be wrong about that, and I hope Wayne or some other vet could confirm or correct this). If they could, we wouldn’t have a military to defend this nation against other agressive nations. (We have police and the FBI to defend us against criminals like the perpetrators of 9/11.)
As heart-breaking and insane as it may seem, we need people who are willing to do dangerous missions and who will follow orders even if it means they may die. We can train them as well as we can to keep them from getting themselves killed through stupidity, but luck plays a huge role in who gets killed and who doesn’t.
They depend on us, the American people, to remove the leaders who make them do the unnecessarily dangerous missions. And we have been trying to get our Congress to recognize that the current “Commander-in-Chief” isn’t fit to lead a military parade, let alone a military.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:30 pmComment by bilbobaggins — August 19, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
A good officer won’t sacrifice his troops unnecessarily, and good generals won’t order good officers (or even not so good officers) to put their troops in the middle of a firestorm unless it’s the only way to accomplish a greater mission.
Seeing as how our “mission” has become so blurry that nobody quite knows what it is anymore (most suspect the mission has become “hang on until this can become somebody else’s mess”), we have a situation where good officers have to choose between sacrificing their troops for somebody’s political legacy or mutiny (which, during wartime, can be punishable by death, according to the UCMJ).
I suspect that some WILL say “enough is enough”, despite the penalty. But probably not many.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:30 pm“we shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a sort of “emotional blackmail.â€
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
We shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a reason not to listen to them.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:32 pmEmotional Blackmail? What kind of stupidity is that Lieberator? I’ll take the assesment and HONEST opinioin of the Groundpounders who do it Every Day over there, before I’ll listen to someone like Petraus or Gates.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:33 pmBesides, General Petreaus isn’t writing the report. The White House is. MOre wishful thinking and lies being tossed at us by the Dry Drunk in the Oval Office.
“we shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a sort of “emotional blackmail.â€
You also shouldn’t let the fact that they’re something you disagree with be your sole reason to dismiss them.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:34 pmWe shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a reason not to listen to them.
Comment by missmolly — August 19, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Tell that to Makros.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pmIf you read the entire article, notice how at the end they, too, feel they have to cover their collective a$$es: “This suggestion is not meant to be defeatist, but rather to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.”
They know all too well that the right will jump on this as “defeatist,” “unpatriotic ,” “un-American,” and “not supporting the troops.”
I love you guys. I will continue to write and contact my so-called representatives to bring you home, or at least send you to the right battlefield. You have gone well above and beyond your duties. Thank you for your service and your letter to the Times
August 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pmOf course these soldiers cannot possibly know as much about the progress of the war they are fighting as our own heroic War President and his veteran combat-tested Vice President. Our medal-studded War President listens to his Generals and takes inspiration from them and lets them write their own reports, as opposed to letting political hacks write them in order to set political policy.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:36 pmThem troops is COMMUNISTS! TERRIST SYMPAMATIZERS!
August 19th, 2007 at 1:38 pmIt really is too bad that GDumbya and Darth Cheney are not war veterans. It’s not because they would be better at conducting the Iraq fiasco today. It’s because they both would have been fragged within a day of arriving in-theater back then . . . and their stupidity would not be imposed upon us today.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pmWhy do our troops hate our troops?
August 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pm“we shouldn’t let the fact that they are military be a sort of “emotional blackmail.â€
Comment by Liberator
That’s rich.
The invasion of Iraq was based on emotional blackmail; and after all which has gone (predictably) wrong, you’re now carping about a few soldiers’ attempts to balance the Pentagon’s “all is well” smokescreen?
Hoo boy!
August 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pmI think the Troops and Officers of the 82nd Airborne as well as the vast majority of the Troops understand tha quandry that they are in. This might be just the first expression of it that we will see in the future from them.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:44 pmIt will serve as a needed counterweight to the Report coming out of the White House in Sept. that will no doubt paint a glowing assesment of our “Progress” in Iraq. It will bear no relation to the reality that the 82nd and the rest of the Troops deal with every day.
The ultimate in emotional blackmail is having the chicken-hawk neocons pissing and moaning that those who question GDumbya’s dirty little avoidable war in Iraq “don’t support our troops”.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:45 pmAccording to Liberator the “progress” in Iraq is limited to the execution of Saddam. Not much to report on since that day.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:45 pmWayne, my fax machine is on.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:52 pmtom, I’m sure you were the first to enlist after 9-11. (chuckle)
August 19th, 2007 at 1:53 pmThe New York Times must also now allow the overwelming number of troops who realize the progress being made in Iraq to publish their editorial. They are making the contributions, and they deserve their voice.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:56 pmThe 82′nd Airborne is one of the most widely recognized and highly decorated combat divisions in the US. Their nickname (look at their shoulder patches) is ALL AMERICAN.
And now active duty soldiers in the 82nd Airborne are willing to speak out publically, voicing the truth over the Bush administrations lies?
Heroes to the end.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:58 pmcomment by Liberator @1:18 pm
Gee Liberator; why don’t you enlist, do 3-4 tours in Iraq and tell us how right you are?
August 19th, 2007 at 1:58 pmAdam Selene;
August 19th, 2007 at 2:00 pmBETTER RED THAN DEAD!!!
why don’t you enlist, do 3-4 tours in Iraq and tell us how right you are?
Comment by Uncle Ho
Follow your own advice, hypocrite.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:00 pmI don’t think Dr. Dog read the same Op-Ed that I did.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:02 pmI’ll say this about it. It is one helluva piece of writing by these men (And I wish a speedy recovery to Sgt. Murphy). It is a damming indictment of our Political Leadership and the strategy for this Occupation. And thats what this is now. It is not “the War on Terror”. Lets call a spade a spade here folks. And we are paying a very dear price in blood and treasury for it.
Liberals claim to support the foundations of this country. It’s time for them to enlist in the military.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:02 pmJim, the New York Times has to go out of their way to find a handful of troops to support their agenda. Time to allow the other 99% to have their opposite say.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:04 pmLets start with you Dr. Pee.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:04 pmYou first, you hypocritical lib.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:05 pmAnd how do you know that 99% have the opposite point of view? Clarvoyience?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pmI see that Dr. Dog waited for Wayne to leave before showing up. Maybe he knows that he was thoroughly busted yesterday and that everyone here knows he never showed up for his bout with Wayne.
Dr. Dog has his tail between his legs.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pmComment by Jim Wolf359
He’s gonna be humpin’ your leg all day…
August 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pmOr is it that over active imagination that you and the other Trolls and Wing Nuts have?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:07 pmLiberals claim to support the foundations of this country. It’s time for them to enlist in the military.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
I already did, so STFU!
August 19th, 2007 at 2:07 pmYeah, he might be barfly. Cept’ I won’t be here all day. Just long enough to administer the beat down the Mutt deserves.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pmI already did, so STFU!
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
You weren’t in combat. Liar.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pmWayne must be jumping out of an airplane. (snicker)
August 19th, 2007 at 2:12 pmI never said I was in combat, ‘weed. You said “Liberals claim to support the foundations of this country. It’s time for them to enlist in the military.” You said nothing about combat. I already served my country for more than five years.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:12 pmJunior lost this thing long before “Mission Accomplished”.
He lost it almost before he went in simply because Iraq under Saddam was a secular levy holding back the spread of militant Islam from Afghanistan to the Mediterranean. By breaking that levy, Junior gave that country to Iran and there’s nothing we can do about it now. That, incidentally, is the exact time we lost the War-On-Terror too because we took our eyes off Bin Laden.
He lost it when he went in with too few a number of troops, he lost it when he protected the oil infrastructure and stippled the priceless museum artifacts while allowing everything else to be looted.
He lost it when he destroyed the infrastructure and told the Iraqis to go fu#k themselves.
He lost it when he disbanded the Iraqi Army and let them join the Iraqi resistance.
He lost it when he not only refused Iranian and Syrian help in bringing Iraq under control, but told them that they were next on our list. A perfect way to make friends and influence people.
All that remains is the acknowledgment and acceptance of that loss. Because we cannot be defeated on any battlefield, we have to decide many more lives and how much more money are we willing to throw down this, now bottomless, pit.
If the Democrats and the Republicans are the only ones going to decide this, I’m afraid our losses have only just begun.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:13 pmI already served my country for more than five years.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Proof?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:13 pmAnd how do you know that 99% have the opposite point of view?
…
Comment by Jim Wolf359 — August 19, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
I’d say that 99% is a good estimate. Considering that it is the same percentage as that of civilians who support the troops and don’t want to surrender. If you figure that military is somewhat representative of all Americans, then you get
August 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pmis the exact time we lost the War-On-Terror too because we took our eyes off Bin Laden.
Comment by Arby’s
Clinton was offered OBL from the Sudan. He turned down the offer.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pmI already served my country for more than five years.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Proof?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
The key difference between me and you is that I am who I say I am.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pmWhats new is that they are forming alliances (by necessity) with the minority Sunnis to fight the Insurgency. They also make a point of noting how deeply fractured the Maliki Government is and how that does not help our (their) cause and mission.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:16 pmThe key difference between me and you is that I am who I say I am.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Jane saying you served does not count.
Do you have proof that you served? If not, it’s a lie.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:18 pm“Liberals claim to support the foundations of this country. It’s time for them to enlist in the military.”
I already did, so STFU!
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
You weren’t in combat. Liar.
Comment by Dr. Dog
First he claims none served and then he changes it to served in combat.
He reminds me of the Monty Python & Holy Grail’s knight; armless and legless, still trying to start a fight.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:18 pmI say who I am too. I’m Dr. William Dog.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:18 pmFirst he claims none served and then he changes it to served in combat.
Comment by barfly
We are at war. Why don’t you enlist, big mouth?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:19 pmThey also make a point of noting how deeply fractured the Maliki Government is and how that does not help our (their) cause and mission.
Comment by Jim Wolf359 — August 19, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Yeah! It seems like those Iraqis don’t want to win! Maybe they will surrender, just like the Dems want to do!!!
August 19th, 2007 at 2:19 pmI’m Dr. William Dog. Coward.
Comment by Dr. Dog
Fixed it for you.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:20 pmThe Dems want to surrender to Al Qaeda because they are afraid of them.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pmIf you served, you could lecture. But you were too much of a coward, barf fly, to serve.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:22 pmDo you have proof that you served? If not, it’s a lie.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Is that how you define what is a “lie”? Just because I have no internet links to provide you that verify what I have been saying, YOU claim that I am lying? That’s pretty ignorant.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:22 pmMore nonsence from Lieberator. Try again bub.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:22 pmreally, people…
arguing with a dog?
focus… F O C U S …
August 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pm.
Dr. Dog, you established yesterday with real evidence that you were both a coward and a liar.
You have zero credibility and, really, no one here gives a sh!t what your opinion may be.
Oh, well, maybe Mr Pee cares because he’s desperate for friends.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pmI say who I am too. I’m Dr. William Dog.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Really? Then why didn’t you answer your page when you were supposedly hanging out at the airport in Austin?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pmWe are at war. Why don’t you enlist, big mouth?
Comment by Dr. Dog
Another big thinker of the right, who changes the rules because he can’t debate fairly.
Typical.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:24 pmI don’t fear Al Qaeda Dr. Mutt. What I do fear is the current occupant of the White House losing it and taking it out on another Country. Like Iran.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:24 pm“I say who I am too. I’m Dr. William Dog.”
And what appears when you Google his name?
Nada.
I’m guessing he’s a “doctor” of divinity; he seems the hypocritical sort, to advocate death and destuction, from behind the safety of some feel-good pastorship.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:30 pmIt is kinda creepy the way the 29 percenters smear active servicemen. To deny reality in order to prop up a failed policy (and failed administration) is the height of unpatriotic absurdity!
The sooner our occupation ceases, the sooner we can get back to the real necessities of the 21st century. Osama is on the top of that list, but Cheney/Bush has screwed up so royally, there are true crises all over the middle east that we will have to mediate.
I thank the military personnel who have borne the brunt of this misadministration’s stupid policies-and I hope as a nation we can correct our misdirection, and never misuse them again.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:31 pmJust because I have no internet links to provide you that verify what I have been saying, YOU claim that I am lying?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
No proof, it’s a lie. Very simple.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:33 pmThen why didn’t you answer your page when you were supposedly hanging out at the airport in Austin?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
I don’t believe anybody paged me.
It’s a large airport. I left from gate 12 on the west corridor. Did you page there?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:34 pmI’m guessing he’s a “doctor†of divinity;
Comment by barfly
I hold three doctorates.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:34 pmWayne must be jumping out of an airplane. (snicker)
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
How do you like squatting to pee. You know real men lift their legs at the hydrant.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:34 pmNo proof, it’s a lie. Very simple.
Comment by Dr. Dog
Just what kind of Doctor can’t be found on Google?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pmI’d say that 99% is a good estimate. Considering that it is the same percentage as that of civilians who support the troops and don’t want to surrender. If you figure that military is somewhat representative of all Americans, then you get
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Why don’t you enlist and then you can find out first hand.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pmIt is kinda creepy the way the 29 percenters smear active servicemen.
Comment by Emerald
Bush’s approval is up to 37%. The Dem congress is down to 14%, and only 3% on the Iraq issue.
I only call on the NYT to now publish an op/ed from the 99% of the troops who support what we are doing in Iraq. Not only give voice to the small handful of dissenters.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:36 pmI hold three doctorates.
Comment by Dr. Dog
Then why can’t I locate you on Google?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:36 pmI hold three doctorates.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
No proof, it’s a lie. Just like you lied yesterday about showing up at Wayne’s gym.
The only paper you’re holding is the newspaper you pee on.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:36 pmI do fear is the current occupant of the White House losing it and taking it out on another Country. Like Iran.
Comment by Jim Wolf359
The Dems will probably vote to use force against Iran just like they did when they controlled the senate for Iraq.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pmClinton was offered OBL from the Sudan. He turned down the offer.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
When he went after OBL the Republican congress accused him of trying to divert attention from the “homeland security threatening” sex investigation the hypocrites were conducting.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pmWhy don’t you enlist and then you can find out first hand.
Comment by shane
You claim to support the foundations of this county, but you never enlisted, coward.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:38 pm….and never misuse them again. comment by Emerald
That’s what we said after Vietnam. Look what happened.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:38 pmProof?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
My fax is on, why don’t you send me a copy of yours.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:38 pmThe Dems will probably vote to use force against Iran just like they did when they controlled the senate for Iraq.
Comment by Dr. Dog
Busted. He’s now changing the subject when I ask why he can’t be located on Google.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:38 pmWhen he went after OBL the Republican congress accused him of trying to divert attention from the “homeland security threatening†sex investigation the hypocrites were conducting.
Comment by shane
That doesn’t explain why he turned down the offer from the sudan to turn over OBL to us.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:39 pmYou claim to support the foundations of this county, but you never enlisted, coward.
Comment by Dr. Dog
And neither did you chicky.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:39 pmThe Dems want to surrender to Al Qaeda because they are afraid of them.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
The only thing we’re afraid of is Bushco and their illegal use of powers not really granted to them.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pmMy fax is on, why don’t you send me a copy of yours.
Comment by shane
I do all my business by certified mail.
You could never send me your release papers, because you were too much of a coward to serve.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pmI don’t know what Dog is, but he sure ain’t no doc.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pmTRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT tip of the day:
August 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pmPunch a hippy for the GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR!!!
Punch a hippy for the GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR!!!
Comment by Liberator —
And get your cowardly ass handed to you…
August 19th, 2007 at 2:42 pmThat’s a lie that has been debunked countless times but you’re welcome to your faith.
Personally, I couldn’t give a flying fu#k about Clinton if I tried but use your head for a second - even if that lie was not a lie, even if everything IS Clinton’s fault, how does that help us get out of the pickle we are in today?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:43 pmAnother day another thread filled with troll garbage.
Clean up the sh!t Think Progress.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:43 pmAnd get your cowardly ass handed to you…
Comment by barfly
By who? No show Wayne?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:44 pmPersonally, I couldn’t give a flying fu#k about Clinton
Comment by Arby’s
Well, you should. If he accepted that offer from the Sudan, there would have been no 9-11.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:45 pmComment by Abby — August 19, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Clinton lied while under oath about oral sex with an intern!
August 19th, 2007 at 2:45 pmYou claim to support the foundations of this county, but you never enlisted, coward.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
How dumb does somebody have to be to expect people who are against the war to sign up to fight it, Dr. Dung? Nevermind, we know they have to be about as dumb as you.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:45 pmComment by Dr. Dog
Doggy ain’t no doc, because he can’t prove it.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:46 pmBill Clinton tried to destroy America, and he let over 1,000,000 innocent people die in Rwanda!
August 19th, 2007 at 2:47 pmfollow your own adivce-comment by cowardly yellow cur.
You are about 40 years too late. WTF is your excuse?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:47 pmHow dumb does somebody have to be to expect people who are against the war to sign up to fight it, Dr. Dung?
Comment by shane
It’s not a matter of supporting the war. It’s a matter of supporting the foundations of this country. If you did, you would have enlisted at sometime in your lousy life.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:48 pmWell, you should. If he accepted that offer from the Sudan, there would have been no 9-11.
Comment by Dr. Dog
And if Reagan hadn’t sold weapons to both sides of the Iran, Iraq war, conservatives couldn’t have later whined about all the dead as an excuse for invasion.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:49 pmYou are about 40 years too late.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Proof or it’s a lie. Your choice.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:49 pmconservatives couldn’t have later whined about all the dead as an excuse for invasion.
Comment by barfly
Most Dems voted for the invasion.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:50 pmDr. Dog sez:
And does that sweeping judgement apply to the chickenhawk members of our administration as well?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pmYou could never send me your release papers, because you were too much of a coward to serve.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
I never served, I am a female not drafted near the end of the Viet Nam war. I will give you a fax number to send me proof of your service, do you want it now?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pmThat doesn’t explain why he turned down the offer from the sudan to turn over OBL to us.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
A long ago debunked right-wing talking point perpetrated by NewsMax. Sudan never offered to turn OBL over to us. Clinton pleaded with the Saudis to accept Sudan’s offer to turn OBL over to them, but they refused. As for the 9/11 Commission Report’s findings on this (also cited by your friends at NewsDistortionToTheMax), they had this to say:
Of course, none of this has anything to do with the op-ed piece written by the 82nd Airborne Rangers, which is the real topic of this thread.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pmClinton lied while under oath about oral sex with an intern!
Comment by Liberator
Indeed.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:52 pmThat doesn’t explain why he turned down the offer from the sudan to turn over OBL to us.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Do you have a link for this, if not it’s just a lie.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:52 pmIf you did, you would have enlisted at sometime in your lousy life.
Comment by Dr. Dog —
really funny coming from a liar like you.
Why can’t I find you on Google, if you’ve submitted three dissertations for doctorates? All other “doctors” records can be found on Google (I know, because I once had to locate certain faculty’s records at my community college.) So where’s your records, and why can’t they be found, Doggy?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:52 pmI will give you a fax number to send me proof of your service, do you want it now?
Comment by shane
Yes.
Also, give me your phone number because I want to ask you out on a date.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:53 pmPunch a hippy for the GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR!!!
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Like you know how to throw a punch, fatass pansy.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:53 pmStill waiting for your answer, Dr. Dog…
August 19th, 2007 at 2:54 pmAll the liberals who post here do nothing but give aid and comfort to our enemies, terrorists, and al-Qaida!
August 19th, 2007 at 2:54 pmHey Dog,
I just had you paged at the Austin-Bergstrom airport. Why didn’t you answer?
Comment by Zooey
After I got to the airport I heard 2 pages for Dr. William Dog. He never went to the desk for the pages.
This is just hilarious.
I am still lmao over this.
recap:
I arrived at Bruce’s at about 11, worked out till 1ish when Dog was supposed to be there. He never showed.
Find out Dog was posting, claiming he was on a fantasy wireless connection sitting in Bruces at 1pm Eastern time, by the time stamps.
Katy called Bruce’s, Talked to Bruce, verified no wireless, asked for me, talked to me there at about 1:00. Dog was not there.
Zooey paged Dog and probably someone else did because I heard 2 after I got there. Dog was not there.
Freaking unreal that a troll can be that stupid and think people can not verify things fairly easily.
Comment by Wayne — August 19, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Got anything else to say Lying Dog?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:54 pmBy who? No show Wayne?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
Wayne was called by another poster and he was at the gym at the appointed time. You are the NO SHOW liar.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:55 pmC’mon doggy, surely you can tell me why I can’t locate the “Doctor William Dog” that you claim to be on Google?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:55 pmWayne was called by another poster and he was at the gym at the appointed time. You are the NO SHOW liar.
Comment by shane
The phone at Bruce’s is in the back office. Bruce does not work on the weekend. There is no paging system at the gym. Katy lied when she said she called there.
I waited about 2 hours for “Wayne” to show up. He never did.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:58 pmClinton lied while under oath about oral sex with an intern!
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Every man in American has lied about getting oral sex or not getting oral sex at some time. Except you, obviously, fatass.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:58 pmI waited about 2 hours for “Wayne†to show up. He never did.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Prove it, or you’re lying.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:59 pmWell, you should. If he accepted that offer from the Sudan, there would have been no 9-11.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
———————–
What do you propose, turn back time? Like I said, even if this is all Clinton’s fault, it does not matter now. If it’s all Clinton’s fault, try him and execute him but I still don’t see how saying “Clinton, Clinton, Clinton” over and over again gives us a victory in Iraq or gets us out safely. What’s your proposal?
I thought you were with the “looking forward” Party. You have to look forward to more than just more crime, corruption and pedophilia.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:59 pmComment by Dr. Dog
Still waiting to find out why “Dr. Dog” apparently doesn’t exist…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:00 pmEvery man in American has lied about getting oral sex or not getting oral sex at some time. Except you, obviously, fatass.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Prove it, or you’re lying.
Your choice.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pmEvery man in American has lied about getting oral sex or not getting oral sex at some time.
Comment by shane
Except Clinton lied while he was being deposed is a sexual harrassment lawsuit. He violated the law and hindered the young woman’s claim.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pmProve it, or you’re lying.
Comment by Rose Tyler
What is your fax number?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:02 pmExcept Clinton lied while he was being deposed is a sexual harrassment lawsuit.
And Doggy lied when he claimed to be a doctor…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:02 pm“On this day in 1953, Royalist Forces acting on behalf of Reza Shah Pahlavi, with the aid of the U. S. Central Intelligence Agency, overview Iranian Premier Mohammad Mossadeq.”
August 19th, 2007 at 3:02 pmThere by starting a chain reaction of events that have led us to where we are today. No wonder the Arabs and Muslims despise us.
Bill Clinton tried to destroy America, and he let over 1,000,000 innocent people die in Rwanda!
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Funny, like you care about brown people. Why are you not complaining about all the brown people dying in Darfur while Bush is president. Well over a million, where’s your outrage? Complaning about the past while doing nothing while you can. Plus the people of Darfur are being killed by Muslims, it seems like somebody who hates them as much as you do would want to go fight the Janjaweed.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:02 pmWhat’s your proposal?
Comment by Arby’s
Iraqstat, as proposed by America’s Mayor, Rudy Giuliani.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:03 pmStill waiting for a response to my earlier question Dr. Dog. Do you think you could take a break from your apocryphal claims long enough to respond?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:03 pmLiberals claim to be Pro-America, but then they defend a CRIMINAL like Bill “Slick Willy” Clinton (known sex offender) and slander the US troops!
August 19th, 2007 at 3:03 pmDr William Dog does not exist outside of Thinkprogress.
Imagine that.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:03 pmComment by Dr. Dog
Shouldn’t the Dr. part be in ironic parenthesis, as he isn’t really a doctor?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pmIt’s not a matter of supporting the war. It’s a matter of supporting the foundations of this country. If you did, you would have enlisted at sometime in your lousy life.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
You’re probably right. That’s why we need the draft NOW to ensure that people properly support the country. When did you serve?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pmshane would NEVER be hard up for a date with the likes of cowardly yellow-cur.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pmWhat is your fax number?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
I don’t have a fax machine. What’s your fax number?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pmDr William Dog does not exist outside of Thinkprogress.
Imagine that.
Comment by Rose Tyler
Link, or ADMIT YOU LIED.
Your choice, perky tits.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:05 pmOops, that’s “ironic quotation marks” not parenthesis.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pmHey, Dr. Dog. I’m STILL WAITING, jackass.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pmI don’t have a fax machine.
Comment by Rose Tyler
What is the Kinko’s near you? I will fax my evidence there.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pmHey, Uncle Ho.
Zooey :)
August 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pmWhat is your fax number?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Fax number: 323-876-9447
Let me know when you have sent proof of service and/or proof that you’re a doctor.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:07 pmDr William Dog does not exist outside of Thinkprogress.
Imagine that.
Comment by Rose Tyler
—
Dr. William Dog fixed my hand after I broke a bone punchin’ hippies! He’s not only real, but he is a damn good doctor!
August 19th, 2007 at 3:07 pmLink, or ADMIT YOU LIED.
Your choice, perky tits.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
Link what, jackass?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:07 pmComment by Dr. Dog
All anyone need do is google the name. He’s a fiction.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pmLiberals claim to be Pro-America, but then they defend a CRIMINAL like Bill “Slick Willy†Clinton (known sex offender) and slander the US troops!
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
Proof? He was found not guilty of being a sex offender.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pmThat’s why we need the draft NOW to ensure that people properly support the country. When did you serve?
Comment by shane
We need a draft to ensure that liberals actually serve their own country, instead of laying in bed.
If you give me your fax number, I will fax you papers.
Also, if you give me your phone number, I would like to ask you out on a date.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pmWhat is the Kinko’s near you? I will fax my evidence there.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
I don’t have a Kinkos near me, fax your proof to Shane.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:09 pmDr. William Dog fixed my hand after I broke a bone punchin’ hippies! He’s not only real, but he is a damn good doctor!
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Like I said earlier, Mr Pee is desperate for friends, even online faux friends, so we can expect him to make up sh!t in support of Doggy.
How did the hippies get into your mom’s basement, anyway? It sounds like you stole this from an episode of South Park.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pmEvery man in American has lied about getting oral sex or not getting oral sex at some time. Except you, obviously, fatass.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Prove it, or you’re lying.
Your choice.
Comment by Liberator — August 19, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
REAL MEN know this is true. Thanks for taking the bait.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pmAlso, if you give me your phone number, I would like to ask you out on a date.
Comment by Dr. Dog —
And next come the ruffies…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pmWell, well, well. It appears that “Dr. Dog” is too terrified of me to even respond.
Imagine that.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pmTrolls don’t answer questions they ask them. Ignore them & they’ll look more foolish… if that’s possible.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:11 pmdog thinks the Austin airport is big.
mr. p is scared of hippies.
we’re dealing w/ one small sniveler here.
ahhhhh…..
the sickening smell of suck that emanates from a sad and lonely
August 19th, 2007 at 3:12 pmyoung republican get together.
Poor doggy. When Mr. P gives you a testimonial, you know you’ve hit rock bottom.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:13 pmAlso, if you give me your phone number, I would like to ask you out on a date.
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
My husband doesn’t like me to date other men.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:13 pmREAL MEN know this is true. Thanks for taking the bait.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
–
Prove it. It sounds more like YOU’VE been lied to, honey!
August 19th, 2007 at 3:14 pmWhat association do you have with Oakwood Apartments?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Could you let me know when you send the fax. I’m not hanging around the machine like Wayne did the gym yesterday.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:15 pmComment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Is that your own personal information you posted there or someone else’s?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:15 pmLiberator wants proof of how real men behave. Ha ha ha. He’s doing research I guess.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pmIs that your own personal information you posted there or someone else’s?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — August 19, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
I posted a fax number and Dog posted the rest. He could have just faxed the papers.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:17 pmI posted a fax number and Dog posted the rest. He could have just faxed the papers.
Comment by shane
A fax number? Or your fax number?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pmIs that your own personal information you posted there or someone else’s?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Best guess is “someone else’s.” Google should have revealed his so-called doctorate thesi, but nada.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pmI posted a fax number and Dog posted the rest. He could have just faxed the papers.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
That’s not his own information?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pmDr. William Dog, ronjazz has ODed on meth on the top thread.
It is called:
“Cooper Contradicts Rove: He’s ‘Dissembling’ With ‘Nonsense’ About The Plame Leak”
When you have a chance, he requested that you make him look like a foolish liberal.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pmA question for TP regulars. Does Shane live anywhere near California?
August 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pmA fax number? Or your fax number?
Comment by Dr. Dog — August 19, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
The fax number I use. I don’t need my own fax machine, obviously.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pmA fax number? Or your fax number?
Comment by Dr. Dog
The smell of desperation…
August 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pmShane:
Check your FB.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pmStill no response…but we’re supposed to believe that a person too cowardly to answer a question put to him on a blog has the stones to travel to another city to engage in fisticuffs with another poster.
What a joke.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:20 pmA question for TP regulars. Does Shane live anywhere near California?
Yes.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:20 pmThat’s not his own information?
Comment by Rose Tyler — August 19, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
Nope, it’s from the fax machine I use.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:20 pmNope, it’s from the fax machine I use.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Dr Dog will disappear for that. Thanks, shane.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:21 pmI posted a fax number and Dog posted the rest. He could have just faxed the papers.
Comment by shane — August 19, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
From the Terms of Use agreement. (The link is below for those who want “proof”.) If it was you that posted it, shane, then there is no violation. Did you give “it” permission to post your personal information? (You do not have to confirm or deny the accuracy of what he posted, simply whether or not you gave him permission to do so.)
August 19th, 2007 at 3:22 pmDr Dog will disappear for that. Thanks, shane.
Comment by Rose Tyler — August 19, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
–
Dr. Dog is with another patient right now, so you’ll have to wait for a nurse to fax the documents.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pmI don’t need my own fax machine, obviously.
Comment by shane
OK, I caused documents to be faxed to that number.
August 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pmOK, I caused documents to be faxed to that number.
Asked your mommy did you?