Civil liberties are in jeopardy — ‘it happened to us.’
By on Aug 21st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Civil liberties are in jeopardy — ‘it happened to us.’
After being arrested, but not charged, on July 4, 2004 for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts at a rally for President Bush, Nicole and Jeffrey Rank of Corpus Christie, TX sued the federal government. Last week, they settled with the government for $80,000. The Ranks appeared on MSNBC’s Hardball last night, arguing that “civil liberties continue to be in jeopardy” and that they “didn’t realize it until it happened to us.” Crooks and Liars has the video here.
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jeopardy?? They’re gone. That doesn’t mean that all our rights are being abused.
The loss of liberty doesn’t come at the time of rights being violated, but rather – at the moment the power is created for politicians to abuse them….
It’s not the abuse of power we should be concerned with, but instead – the power to abuse.
Terrorists will never, ever destroy our way of life – that’s going to come from within – from politicians who love their power more than your rights.
Some reading on this:
“You Are Destroying America. Yes, You”
August 21st, 2007 at 1:32 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/you_are_destroying_america_yes_you
stopthecons: Nice post and unfortunately very true. All anyone need do is look at the scoreboard to see who’s harming the American way of life more. 9/11 = 2,974. Iraq War = 3,707. And that doesn’t even begin to address the number of civil liberties the neocons have destroyed to “protect” us from the terrorist influence.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:37 pmever since Padilla was sentenced , you can all be held for years without trial , you all LOST
August 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pmyeah, and Matthews gave the impression that the situation was so very “quaint”. I think you could still the dust on his mouth from Bush’s boots.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:43 pm$40,000.00 per T-shirt?
Just send the bill to the Pentagon, they won’t bat an eye.
sarc/off
August 21st, 2007 at 1:44 pmi think the problem isn’t as direct as it may seem. these hick cops probably just got angry, over-reacted, and hauled them away. they’re just like bouncers, you know. and then, they didn’t charge them, and they won the lawsuit.
sounds like democracy ran its course in the end…..
August 21st, 2007 at 1:44 pmi’m not denying that we have witnessed a serious erosion of civil liberties; i just think this was a poor example to prove it…..
August 21st, 2007 at 1:45 pm$40,000.00 per T-shirt?
Comment by Raven — August 21, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
How many similar T-shirts do you suppose we’ve bought over the last 6 years?
August 21st, 2007 at 1:47 pm40K for getting arrested? Where do I sign up for that?
August 21st, 2007 at 1:47 pm“Terrorists will never, ever destroy our way of life – that’s going to come from within – from politicians who love their power more than your rights.”
Comment by stopthecons — August 21, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
During the worst of McCarthyism in the early 50’s, Communism wasn’t nearly as big a threat to our lives as the fear of Communism was. Joe’s political star required Americans to be afraid of Communism in order to stay in the sky.
We transformed from a nation of freedom and a nation of human rights into a nation of fear, distrust, and surveillance. Neighbors and friends turned on each other. Careers and lives were ruined. To call somebody a “Communist” was to see that person assumed guilty until he was proved innocent.
It all sounds familiar.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:47 pmThanks dem congress for giving this nightmare some legs.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:48 pmGive me a break!!!! The left-wing needs to stop crying. You people have peddled hate and lies about our commander in chief for years now. You would gas conservatives if you could get away with it.
The only freedom under attack is that from the terrorists who wish to kill us and… those who enable them like TP.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pmNow take some of that money and give it to John Edwards for President!
August 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pm40K for getting arrested? Where do I sign up for that?
Comment by craig mack — August 21, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
If you read the article, you’d know. Go to a Bush rally, in Texas, wearing a T-shirt that is critical of Bush. Then, refuse to cover it.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pm$80K is quite an admission of guilt by the gov’t. I’m going to start sportin one of those shirts and see if I can get unlawfully arrested too.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pm#12 – John Edwards is a crook who owns stock in a company that foreclosed on black people in New Orleans.
John Edwards hates black people.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:53 pmTP (Think Progress has the same initials as toilet paper because both are related to base situations) totally mischaracterized the case of these anarchists, the Ranks, in another posting of total, partisan stimulation of its leftarded readership. What TP and the article failed to mention is that the Ranks were in absolutely irretrievable violation of a directive in something called the presidential advance manual. That manual clearly states that demonstrators should be removed from an event where the president appears. Further, the settlement DOES NOT mean or establish an admission of guilt on the part of the government, since this settlement is actually a favor to the Ranks, sparing them the bruising court battle and increased costs. The federal government could’ve easily won due to their reason of the presidential advance manual. Also, the ACLU doesn’t care about the Ranks’ “civil liberties”; rather, it acts wherever it can to oppose Bush.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:53 pm# 11 – you’re 100% right bud – it was us who gave the Iraqi insurgents a plane load of cash and 180,000 guns – how did you find out we were behind it??
August 21st, 2007 at 1:53 pmI’d love to hear how TP is enabling terrorists.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:55 pm#12 – John Edwards is a crook who owns stock in a company that foreclosed on black people in New Orleans.
Comment by Hillary Whacked Vince — August 21, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Where did you read they were all black people? I’d like to see that.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:55 pmThis isn’t the first time this has happened. Remember about 4 years ago when Bush appeared at Ohio State University? A handful of people in the audience turned their backs while he spoke. They didn’t say anything, they didn’t wear anything critical of Bush, they didn’t even move except they just turned their backs. Bush’s Secret Service arrested them and forced them to leave the premises.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pmTrolls like it. Trolls think it’s good. Lots of Germans thought the Nazis were good, too. Boy did they ever learn the hard way.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pmever since Padilla was sentenced , you can all be held for years without trial , you all LOST Comment by Tobey Tall
So can you Tobey.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pm#15
He owns stock in a company that forclosed on black people in New Orleans??
And this man is still walking the streets? After what the company which he owns stock in did???
August 21st, 2007 at 1:57 pm#16
August 21st, 2007 at 1:58 pmYou’re kidding.. right?
i think the problem isn’t as direct as it may seem. these hick cops probably just got angry, over-reacted, and hauled them away.
Comment by darla — August 21, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Darla, I would like to point out to you that Republican party operatives with no legal authority whatsoever have intimidated and “detained” people at Bush’s staged rallies. Don’t be naive.
Also, even what you call “hick cops” know better than this.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:58 pmIt’s outrageous that taxpayers had to pay an $80,000 settlement for the clearly illegal actions of a Bush political appointee and a network of “overzealous volunteers.” The Administration has a long history of these abuses. Some examples:
How the Bushies Protect their own (Atkiss):
Bush Staff: We decide who comes to taxpayer-funded events!
The type of person who runs the Advance Office:
Tale of a Smarmy Bush Appointee (with bonus tittilation!)
More on the coverup:
DENVER THREE – Case Moves Ahead Again
Other dirty tricks from Advanceland:
White House Advance Office – Lying and Shady?
American taxpayers, you’re paying for all of this.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:59 pmGive me a break!!!! The left-wing needs to stop crying. You people have peddled hate and lies about our commander in chief for years now. You would gas conservatives if you could get away with it.
The only freedom under attack is that from the terrorists who wish to kill us and… those who enable them like TP.
Comment by Hillary Whacked Vince — August 21, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
“You people peddled hate and lies” I think your name speaks for itself. Don’t discuss the idea throw terms like enabling the terrorists spewing hate everything but talk about the issue at hand. When will you learn you can not make people so fearful that they will give up reason that worked once as bush invoked 9/11 and support the troops to push every new policy and war he liked but never again not on my watch.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:59 pmThe federal government could’ve easily won due to their reason of the presidential advance manual.
Comment by Progsrelyonnamecallinginsteadofreason — August 21, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Could it be that the presidential advance manual is unlawful, and a “bruising court battle” could result it the court declaring it so?
August 21st, 2007 at 1:59 pmI’d love to hear how TP is enabling terrorists.
Comment by David Carlisle — August 21, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Oooo, boy, the trolls skipped right over the (R) guy going to court. How is wearing a T-Shirt gonna hurt you? Make you run and hide?
August 21st, 2007 at 2:00 pm#11, 15, 16, 22: Well, our frustrated little troll has shown up I see. Mom fixing lunch for ya’, hun?
August 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pmI’d love to hear how TP is enabling terrorists.
Comment by David Carlisle — August 21, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
The usual neocon digital logic – if you oppose the Republican al-Qa’ida, you are therefore a support of the real al-Qa’ida.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:03 pm#16
Are you thick? The ACLU is fighting that manual. Of course it says demonstrators aren’t allowed. Does that make it law? Nope. It’s just a manual… One that threatens liberties guaranteed in the First Amendment.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:03 pmZazzle lets you find shop and buy Anti-clinton T-shirts, Shirts, Posters, Mugs, Cards and other Products. Design your own personalized Anti-clinton products …
zazzle.com
Oh no! I am enabling the Clinton Derangement Syndrome terrusts with anti-president t-shirts!! Hide me Hide me!!
You reactionist types, David Carlisle, are such waffling hypocrites.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:03 pmThere also is the lawyer who bought an anti-war shirt in a shopping mall somewhere in the Northeast, then was arrested after a security guard told him to remove the shirt or leave the mall and he refused to do so on first amendment grounds.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:04 pm“Terrorists will never, ever destroy our way of life – that’s going to come from within – from politicians who love their power more than your rights.â€
Comment by stopthecons — August 21, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
worth repeating. For a democracy to work, all have to participate. That’s what neocons don’t want. The fewer the better for them.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:06 pmOh no! I am enabling the Clinton Derangement Syndrome terrusts with anti-president t-shirts!! Hide me Hide me!!
You reactionist types, David Carlisle, are such waffling hypocrites.
Comment by Zeppie! — August 21, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
Darn. I KNEW I was doing something wrong.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:08 pmVerbalKint, shopping malls are private property. They don’t have to insure freedom of speech.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:10 pmVerbalKint, shopping malls are private property. They don’t have to insure freedom of speech.
Comment by j swift — August 21, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
August 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pmYes, but it is still a violation of your first amendment rights if you are picking and choosing what types of speech to censor if you are having people remove both pro war and anti war shirts then you are right they can do that but if they are profiling anti-war shirts only then they are violating your rights.
Darn. I KNEW I was doing something wrong.
Comment by David Carlisle
Republicans wore plenty of them at one time. Go buy a dozen or two. Im not bothered by them.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:14 pmchad
Rephrase.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:14 pmHey TP
Its Corpus Christi not Christie.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:14 pmMeans “body of Christ”
chad, it is certainly hypocrisy to allow them to sold and not worn on their premises. Hell, the security guard could be some frustrated brownshirt wannabe who saw his chance but it does not the fact that the malls are not government and you have no constitutional protections from private individuals (i.e. corporations) from censoring you.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:16 pm#41 um, when you are on their property that is.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:18 pmchad
Rephrase.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 21, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
A mall can not profile what types of messages they choose to censor. If they want to not allow any political tshirts they can but they can not choose to simply censor one type of speech or message they choose to not agree with. This is a violation of your first amendment rights.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:18 pmthis settlement is actually a favor to the Ranks, sparing them the bruising court battle and increased costs.
Comment by Progsrelyonnamecallinginsteadofreason — August 21, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
I wish someone did me such a favour. Is it nice over there in lala-land??
August 21st, 2007 at 2:19 pmchad, it is certainly hypocrisy to allow them to sold and not worn on their premises. Hell, the security guard could be some frustrated brownshirt wannabe who saw his chance but it does not the fact that the malls are not government and you have no constitutional protections from private individuals (i.e. corporations) from censoring you.
Comment by j swift — August 21, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Interesting that is not my take on it. My wife is an attorney I will have to ask her take on it. So if you are right basically your freedom of speech only applies on public property.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pmthis settlement is actually a favor to the Ranks, sparing them the bruising court battle and increased costs.
Comment by Progsrelyonnamecallinginsteadofreason — August 21, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Funny I think most voters would have rather allowed them to attend the conference then pay out $80,000.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:22 pmI wish the trolls would stop enabling the terrorists.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:25 pmComment by Hillary Whacked Vince — August 21, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
Let me take your wild accusations one by one:
“You people have peddled hate…”
— Accusing us of peddling hate when an overwhelming amount of hatred and bigotry spews out at America from right-wing talk radio daily is pure chutzpah on your part. Please give examples of this “hate” we peddle — and don’t confuse it with honest criticism.
“…and lies about our commander in chief for years now.”
– Coming from somebody who signs himself “Hillary Whacked Vince”??? Again — back up this absurd statement with examples. Criticizing the actions and policies of a president is not the same as lying. I’m sure you didn’t think it was when Clinton was president.
“You would gas conservatives if you could get away with it.”
– No, we don’t advocate the elimination of people we disagree with. You have us confused with Ann Coulter, who says things like “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”
“The only freedom under attack is that from the terrorists who wish to kill us”
– So you don’t consider the loss of your free speech rights, the government spying on you, their right to toss you into a deep hole without habeus corpus, the right to arrest you without giving you any access to counsel a problem? You’re perfectly OK with that? You may not mind the loss of your rights under the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and eighth amendments, but what if it was your SECOND amendment rights the government was after? Oh wait — yes, you need your gun to nail all these terrorists who are after us, since they are the ONLY threat to our way of life and we must be afraid of them 24/7.
“…and… those who enable them like TP.”
August 21st, 2007 at 2:25 pm– What? You managed to decipher the coded messages? (removing tongue from cheek now) Unless you can provide a truly compelling case for how blog sites like this enable the terrorists more than they are already enabled, a comment like that is meaningless.
Okay, time to dispell some myths:
If you say something, you have the right to say it. The media has the right to cover it, or not cover it.
Blogs, like this one, have the right to delete comments, this is not infringing on your rights, because it is their site and they can have it say what they want it to say. While we all disagree with the way the rightwing blogosphere tries to stifle all dissent to provide a false sense of majority, we recognise that it is their right to be total wussies if they want to be.
And yes, Malls have the right to dictate to some extent what gets sold on their premises – IF that right is included in their contract with your shop.
What they don’t have the right to do, is stifle the free speech or expression of their customers, so if you show up dressed in a anti-Bush T-Shirt, there isn’t a lot they can do to you.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:25 pmWhat they don’t have the right to do, is stifle the free speech or expression of their customers, so if you show up dressed in a anti-Bush T-Shirt, there isn’t a lot they can do to you.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — August 21, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
Since you seem to know something about this I’ll ask you. What if they state that your shirt is causing a distrubance and upsetting people or inciting a riot do they have right to ask you to leave or remove the shirt?
August 21st, 2007 at 2:34 pmThe city name is spelled: Corpus Christi,TX
No e at the end.
-Tejas Resident
August 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pmYes, and it means body of Christ, not Balls of Bush.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pmTo the posters who would give up our civil liberties in order to feel safer from terrorists:
August 21st, 2007 at 2:46 pmYou are cowards. Plain and simple.
Civil Liberties? No, they were a threat to the President as they intended to be!
August 21st, 2007 at 2:48 pmNEIL – YOU’RE A COWARD and a traitor. YOU PIG. Stop cheering and helping America’s enemies on the WOT and then calling those who question you a coward. I would beat the crap out of you if I ever met you.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:55 pm“Interesting that is not my take on it. My wife is an attorney I will have to ask her take on it. So if you are right basically your freedom of speech only applies on public property.”
LOL, Chad, I may be wrong. The point I made, I remember reading many years ago. But yeah, the point I am making is that private property rights trump speech, even if you open your private property up to the public to do business. That may have changed or I suspect there maybe exceptions.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pmever since Padilla was sentenced , you can all be held for years without trial , you all LOST
So can you Tobey.
I live in Scotland I must be charged within 6 hours OR let go , And my trial must be ready to start in 100 days OR Im set free
August 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pmThis administration does not care about our safety
from nuclear accident: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/nuclear_secrets;_ylt=Asjcrv8ytVC6VVg7CDeyqSRhr7sF
from work hazards: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/connect-the-dots-karl-ro_b_61175.html
from natural disasters: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/
from war: http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/08/17/bush-iraq-congress-cz_0820oxfordanalytica.html?feed=rss_business
environmental hazards: http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2005.asp
health care : http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80266.php
You name it and Bush has failed.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:02 pmWe transformed from a nation of freedom and a nation of human rights into a nation of fear, distrust, and surveillance. Neighbors and friends turned on each other. Careers and lives were ruined. To call somebody a “Communist†was to see that person assumed guilty until he was proved innocent.
It all sounds familiar.
Comment by missmolly — August 21, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
Why is Mc Cartyism always viewed as a bad time in our country. It opened our eyes to the dangers of communism in our own country. Peoples lives have been destroyed for far worse things than being labeled a communist, yet this is a rally cry for the left.
I was at an Al Gore fundraiser when he was running for president. There were some protesters carrying simple slogan signs against him. ” Gore Is A Flopper”, with flip flops painted on the signs. His goons came out and ripped the signs out of their hands and started breaking them. When one of the protesters started filming, they broke his camera and left. The police did nothing because the didn’t see the altercation. But there were plenty of witnesses. The A.C.L.U didn’t return their calls because they were to busy. They were given nothing for having their civil rights violated and their property damaged. It happens all the time, whomever is in office!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 3:04 pmYea Johnny Swank. Nice “story”.
Too bad it never happened, huh?
August 21st, 2007 at 3:07 pmHis goons came out and ripped the signs out of their hands and started breaking them. When one of the protesters started filming, they broke his camera and left. The police did nothing because the didn’t see the altercation. But there were plenty of witnesses. The A.C.L.U didn’t return their calls because they were to busy. They were given nothing for having their civil rights violated and their property damaged. It happens all the time, whomever is in office!!!
Comment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Got some REAL validation, or is this just nonsense? Just asking.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:09 pmHey folks. Lets just all accept Johnny Troll here’s word that HE, was at an AL GORE fundraiser.
:|
Well I’d love to stay and chat but I’ve gotta get to a John McCain pep rally.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:09 pmAt what point did it become “treasonous” to wish we had a different President?
August 21st, 2007 at 3:10 pm#
At what point did it become “treasonous†to wish we had a different President?
Comment by pete — August 21, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Ever since George became King!
August 21st, 2007 at 3:13 pmNEIL – YOU’RE A COWARD and a traitor. YOU PIG. Stop cheering and helping America’s enemies on the WOT and then calling those who question you a coward. I would beat the crap out of you if I ever met you.
Comment by Hillary Whacked Vince — August 21, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Bush and Cheney are the leading supporters of Al Qaeda. And you couldn’t beat the crap out of your own micro-dick. Coward sissy.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:20 pmI live in Scotland I must be charged within 6 hours OR let go , And my trial must be ready to start in 100 days OR Im set free
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 21, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I’m moving to Scotland.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:22 pmhey were given nothing for having their civil rights violated and their property damaged. It happens all the time, whomever is in office!!!
Comment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Excellent, do you get the fascist bullshit koolaid injected directly, or do you drink it voluntarily? what a pack of lies and crap. You were probably at a Bushnazi rally, just too drunk to remember.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:23 pmI would beat the crap out of you if I ever met you.
Comment by Mommy Whacked Meoff — August 21, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
You mean you’d beat him off, then eat the crap out of him?
Thats what you meant to say, right?
August 21st, 2007 at 3:24 pmGot some REAL validation, or is this just nonsense? Just asking.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 21, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
The story was later written in The Times Picayune newspaper. I will find it, and post it. I was there, and there is no denying it happend. Do you honestly believe that only republicans are capable of this? They all are!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 3:33 pmExcellent, do you get the fascist bullshit koolaid injected directly, or do you drink it voluntarily? what a pack of lies and crap. You were probably at a Bushnazi rally, just too drunk to remember.
Comment by ronjazz — August 21, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
I expect an apology after I show you how your party works, as well as the other party. The sad thing about you is, “They don’t do this, not my beloved democratic party!!!”. LOSER!
August 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pmThe story was later written in The Times Picayune newspaper. I will find it, and post it. I was there, and there is no denying it happend.
Comment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Sure there is.
Theres lots of denying it happened.
Whats that you morons always say? Oh yea.
LINK or admit you’re lying.
August 21st, 2007 at 3:59 pmI expect an apology after I show you how your party works, as well as the other party. The sad thing about you is, “They don’t do this, not my beloved democratic party!!!â€. LOSER!
Comment by Johnny Stank — August 21, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
A. I’m not a democrat.
B. If you thought it was wrong, you wouldn’t try to find a partisan occurance and use it to validate the practice.
C. You’re probably too inbred stupid to understand A and B.
August 21st, 2007 at 4:03 pmComment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
You better go a library – one that didn’t flood – to find that article. I don’t think the New Orleans Times-Picayune on-line archive goes back 7 years.
Isn’t it rich that proof of a supposed crime committed AGAINST Bush supporters may require evidence that was likely destroyed in an actual crime committed BY Bush supporters?
August 21st, 2007 at 4:04 pmA troll must be someone who does not tow the democratic party line 100%.
You must drink the democratic koolaid everyday and never question those who control you. You must love all democrats and share their views on everthing they do. Your job is to attack and deny any speech other than ours. You are to stand up for and deny any wrongdoing amongst us. You can never, ever, give credit to G.W.B. for anything he does. If you get caught in a lie, lie your way out of it. If you begin to lose a dedate on facts, call them a Nazi or a facist. If that doesn’t work, call us; we know how to handle those people. If someone has evidence indicating wrongdoing on our part, attack their credibillity on all fronts. If they are women, call them whores and enablers. If they are men, dig up their back ground and use anything the New York Times will run. And most important; indoctrinate the young! Start early. When junior is cutting his first tooth, sing the “I hate George Bush and all republicans” nursery song. Teach him to hate republicans, and fellow Americans who sympathize with the republican party, like Joe Lieberman. You have done your job and part for the democratic party. A donation is mandatory if you are true progressive. Your anger is truly appreciated. Regards
August 21st, 2007 at 4:33 pm“You would gas conservatives if you could get away with it.”
Maybe one day you will realize that we are fighting for your Freedom of Speech, too.
August 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmIsn’t it rich that proof of a supposed crime committed AGAINST Bush supporters may require evidence that was likely destroyed in an actual crime committed BY Bush supporters?
What are you trying to say Bienville? If you live here like I do, you know the levee system is to blame for what happend. The levees were built defective for over fifty years. The Army Corps of Engineers is to blame along with a lack of proper funding and management by the federal goverment, state goverment, and local. GWB did not cause the levee failures Bienville, and you know that.
I went to the on-line archives; one of the worst search engines i have encountered. I will find it. One of the local TV news stations did a story on it as well. Happy hunting!
I still find it amusing that some of you can’t believe this could happen. Their politicians!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 4:44 pmA troll must be someone who does not tow the democratic party line 100%.
Comment by Johnny Crank — August 21, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Nope.
A troll is like you. Someone who no matter what the topic on the board, has to come in and defend the right wing.
Today the topic is our civil liberties in jeopardy. And do you come in like a good American and defend the concept of civil liberty?
No.
Instead you once again try to make it a partisan issue, and show examples of where democrats did it too.
THATS what makes you a troll, troll.
August 21st, 2007 at 4:45 pmComment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Nah — those are tactics of the right. Hate isn’t our shtick. I haven’t called anyone a Nazi (unless, of course, it was somebody who really WAS a Nazi — complete with swastika).
August 21st, 2007 at 4:53 pm“You can never, ever, give credit to G.W.B. for anything he does. ”
Wrong, it is G.W.B. who is unable to accept credit for the things that he has ruined… I mean “done”. Hell, his VP doesn’t even want to admit what branch of Government he works for.
I challenge you and any of the remaining five Bush supporters to please name one (1) good thing that Bush has done for our country. If you think you can, I guarantee that I can provide at least ten (10) reasons that it has hurt us even more.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:01 pmA troll is like you. Someone who no matter what the topic on the board, has to come in and defend the right wing.
Today the topic is our civil liberties in jeopardy. And do you come in like a good American and defend the concept of civil liberty?
No.
Instead you once again try to make it a partisan issue, and show examples of where democrats did it too.
THATS what makes you a troll, troll.
Comment by LIL SERF — August 21, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
I never once supported or defended the right wing. If you read my first post, I pointed out that civil liberties are not just a republican problem. I also pointed out, in regards to civil liberties, that we as citizens of this country, are arogant to think and believe that we are being mistreated by our goverment when the people they are after are not citizens of America, but are either known our unknown foreign people of interest. . I ask the question again; Hands up America if you have been denied your civil rights guranteed by the Constitution??? I see a couple of hands out of the three hundred million peoples that live here, wait you don’t count, your not a U.S. citizen. Only legal citizens are afforded the rights of the constitution!
I posted earlier detailing my beliefs on civil liberties, but it was removed or made to much sense and I deleted it.
You defending civil liberties? I think you love the fact that Bush haters got paid and made him look bad. Are you for the fairness doctrine. If so, isn’t that denying someone their free speech? Denying their civil liberties, and denying them the right to earn a living doing what they love to do?
August 21st, 2007 at 5:09 pmI challenge you and any of the remaining five Bush supporters to please name one (1) good thing that Bush has done for our country. If you think you can, I guarantee that I can provide at least ten (10) reasons that it has hurt us even more.
Comment by J — August 21, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
He gave more money to fight A.I.D.S. in Africa than the two previous presidents before him combined!
August 21st, 2007 at 5:14 pmI challenge you and any of the remaining five Bush supporters to please name one (1) good thing that Bush has done for our country. If you think you can, I guarantee that I can provide at least ten (10) reasons that it has hurt us even more.
Comment by J — August 21, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
He joined his father and Bill Clinton to raise money for the tsunami and hurricane victims. Together they did a great job. W’s idea! Now name ten reasons that hurts us? And also A.I.D.S relief in Africa. Even Bono praised W.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:18 pmAre you for the fairness doctrine. -Swank
I used to be for the fairness doctrine as it was before cable and other information services became available. The Airwaves were [supposedly] public property. The FCC fined people for cursing even on CB radios and transmitting without a license. Cable came along, with subscription services and changed that as a paid service the fairness doctrine no longer applied, people wanted MTV and other specilaized entertainment.
As it was the Republicans first fought hard for repeal of the Fairness Doctrine under Reagan, it became so for a few reasons I wont mention. Political pundits arose, News shows, such as 60 minutes actually, for the first , time became profitable. Controversy sold, made big bucks.
And with the rise of pundits we had alot of disinformation [Opinion radio] circulating. Corporations funded pundits to help pass, or kill, complicated legislation in their/not in their favor. Polticians had a new avenue for smear campaigns.
Yes I am for the fairness doctrine in public airwaves. I am aganst the fairness doctrine in paid subscription services.
The Republicans leapt out ahead with their brand of political marketing and ministry attack methods. Fair enough. Now the people have figured out the game and the Republicans are quickly losing the advantage. Rovian politics have disintegrated, we move on.
WHat bothers me about the multitiude of information is the ubelievable amount of bias. Moral and Poltical, which should not be confused. As it stands, yes we have access to alot of knowledge, but not wisdom. People MUST learn how to sift the wheat from the chaff. Its the Chaff that rubs the wrong way, so much hate being sent across the tubes, for someone you, or I , do not know, but only think we know. There is a danger in that, a divisive danger to our Country. and thay is what we must be fully aware of.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:38 pmI’m not sure that tsunami relief or money for fighting aids (even if it is tied to “abstinence only” programs) are relevant to a debate about civil liberties.
However, I do have a question. How many U.S. citizens are being held, without council, charges or trial, in Gitmo or other prisons?
August 21st, 2007 at 5:40 pmWhere is J? That’s a tough one, huh? You made the challenge and can’t ride to the challenge. Us inbreds is good!
Our civil liberties are not in jeoprady. If you are a bad guy, then they are. If you are citizen of the U.S., you are fine. If you are not, and conduct activities that are harmful to the U.S., look over your shoulder. I also believe that complete searches of grannies on walkers in our airports is close to criminal, while Asad goes right thru.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:45 pmTechnically I said “for our country”, meaning the United States.
Why do you both value other nations over our own.
Not to mention Bush pledged more money, but ended up cutting it, most notably, the funding for condoms to emphasize abstinence, which so far is hurting the Africans by decreasing the availability of condoms.
Bono took back his praise and has since said that he is “depressed” at the lack of response.
Try again.
On topic:
“If you are citizen of the U.S., you are fine. ”
This thread is about U.S. citizens in TX. In addtion, Bush has admitted to spying on American citizens without warrants what do you mean “Our civil liberties are not in jeoprady.”?
You are a parody poster, right?
August 21st, 2007 at 5:50 pmI’m not sure that tsunami relief or money for fighting aids (even if it is tied to “abstinence only†programs) are relevant to a debate about civil liberties.
However, I do have a question. How many U.S. citizens are being held, without council, charges or trial, in Gitmo or other prisons?
Comment by pete — August 21, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Look at his question or challenge of me! It is not linked to civil liberties either. I however have been posting about civil liberties.
How many U.S. citizens are being held and refused council or trial Pete? The key question is United States CITIZENS. Not foreign citizens.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:50 pmSwank:
Jose Padilla, for one. He is an American citizen. He was held without consel for years as an “enemy combattant” until the Bush Administration could not legitimately call him that anymore. Oops, their mistake.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:55 pmI never once supported or defended the right wing.
Comment by Johnny Skank — August 21, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
Sure you did troll.
The minute you walked in and started saying “so, democrats did it too”.
Stupid troll.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:57 pmLook at his question or challenge of me! It is not linked to civil liberties either. I however have been posting about civil liberties. -Swank
He limited it to Bush [Jr] and what he has done for America. IE not Clinton and Bush sr or Tsunami relief, which is a good deed, but didn’t really help everday Americans. Such as I take the challenge to be Swank.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmTechnically I said “for our countryâ€, meaning the United States.
Why do you both value other nations over our own
This isn’t good for our country J? To help stop the spread of an apparent epidemic? Isn’t it good to help our friends J? Isn’t it good that by sending money to our friends, they may be able to come up with a cure? Maybe show us how to deal with this problem on a wide spread solution? Of course it is. I don’t value other nations over mine. I gave you two examples. I did not get ten reasons it hurt our country. And what about pairing Bush Sr. with Clinton; was that not good for the Gulf Coast residents who were affected by Katrina and Rita? They raised millions to help my community. Sad thing is, it’s all of ours, but who cares J. You wanted to play a game. I played, and you can’t fulfill the ten reasons you claimed you could. Lesson: Don’t shoot your mouth off if you can’t give up the goods. Have a nice day!
August 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmI think that holding U.S. citizens, like Jose Padilla, for years before charges are levied is a clear violation of civil liberties. One of the greatest things about our country is that accused criminals are protected by law. Secret prisons work against this.
To answer my own question: we have no idea how many U.S. citizens are being held. We know of, at least, one.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pm“How many U.S. citizens are being held and refused council or trial Pete? The key question is United States CITIZENS. Not foreign citizens.”
Oh, so you do know the difference…
August 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmOur civil liberties are not in jeoprady. -Swank
Are you a gun owner?
August 21st, 2007 at 6:03 pm[tihis is not a L, C, R question]
Jose Padilla is a terrorist by the way!!! Not Joe Blow supporting his family. He admitted he wanted to kill Americans by any means. He also has really bad connections. Are glad he is not going to try and blow anything up anymore? Our are you so worried that someday, you the good American is going to spied on for no reason. Your arrogant to think that your rights are being violated when they are not.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:06 pmJose Padilla is a terrorist by the way!!!
Comment by Johnny Swank — August 21, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
Yea?
What did he blow up?
August 21st, 2007 at 6:10 pmhttp://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=28456
Democrat Congress Approval Rating Matches Historical Low
August 21st, 2007 at 6:10 pmSwank:
My rights as an American to good grammar and English-speaking fellow citizens are being violated by you and your mess of syntax and misspellings. Please return to your native Redneckistan.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:11 pmThe challenge is Swank to name a [one] good thing Bush has done for America.
That could be tax cuts, or labeling Padilla a enemy combatant, or Amnesty for drug companies, or hiring Karl Rove, or regime change in Iraq, or going into Afghanistan, etc etc
The Challenge is to pick one Swank. The rest is up to J.
You seem to be picking the Padilla case Swank.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:12 pmDemocrat Congress Approval Rating Matches Historical Low
Comment by noname1234
It will rise just as have Bushes low numbers. =)
August 21st, 2007 at 6:14 pmPlease return to your native Redneckistan.
Comment by ptf — August 21, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Actually I think he comes from Inbredistan.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:15 pmActually I think he comes from Inbredistan.
Comment by LIL SERF
Lets raise the bar a bit, eh?. I say Nashville, okay I’m joking.
WHat have one have you picked Swank. Choose carefully.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:18 pmOn topic:
“Your arrogant to think that your rights are being violated when they are not.”
Bush admitted that they are. Keep up.
Back off:
I think it is good to give to other nations and I am glad that you do too, but the burden is on you to prove how exactly this has helped our country.
None of the money has gone to research for a cure and no cure has been found.
Not to mention the glaring difference between pledging money and actually sending it.
The Tsunami aid was good for the victims, but the debacle and embarrassment of the initial pledging of only $15mil backed him into that corner, you know… after he decided to come back from vacation.
Again, name one good thing Bush has done for our country… that is, besides his inadequacies as President making a record number of citizens more politically aware…
There, I gave you one.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:22 pmAgain sorry this is off topic:
But I would like to note that 1hr and 32min. later, the only thing a Bush supporter can come up with that Bush has done for this country has to do with Katrina with Bush Sr. and Clinton doing all of the work.
August 21st, 2007 at 6:38 pmThis settlement money should be paid by…
…George W. Bush or HIS agents…
…NOT taxpayers…
August 21st, 2007 at 9:13 pmJohnny Swank
You cannot credit Bush for what his father and Bill Clinton did. Bush is not his father and he certainly isn’t Bill Clinton.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:07 amIn regards to the mall case as mentioned, constitutional rights can only be violated by state actors (FBI Agents, Cops, etc)
A mall has no obligation protect freedom of speech. However, where this case becomes constitutional is when arrest is involved. The Security guard would have no power to arrest the shirt wearer, so if the wearer was arrested, it was by a government actor, the police, hence that is where it becomes a constituional issue (to take up with the police)… The security guard trying to detain the shirt wearer simply for wearing a shirt would likely be guilty of unlawful detention, false imprisonment, or similar state statute, but that claim isnt a constitutional issue.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:11 am>That manual clearly states that demonstrators should be removed from >an event where the president appears.
Sorry, can you please explain to us how “a manual” trumps constitutional rights? I guess I didint get the memo.
>Further, the settlement DOES NOT mean or establish an admission of guilt >on the part of the government,
true but its a STRONG INFERENCE
>since this settlement is actually a favor to the defendants, sparing them >the bruising court battle and increased costs.
hahaahahah! hahahaahah. why oh why would the government want to do that? do you have inside information about the case?
>The federal government could’ve easily won due to their reason of the >presidential advance manual.
I’m sorry, which law school did you graduate from again, spammer?
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:16 am>removed from an event
oh yeah.. and even if the manual had ANY legal weight, which it doesnt,
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:17 amremoving someone is not equivalent to arresting them.
Their T-shirts were an implicit threat of violence against the President of the United States and any reasonable person would see it that way. I am very disappointed the state or federal government did not pursue criminal charges against these folks. I am sure that a jury of their peers would have found them guilty in no time at all. Paying them one red cent, let alone $80K, is a monstrous perversion of justice.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:12 amComment by nabalzbbfr — August 22, 2007 @ 9:12 am
I assume you had your sarcasm on when you wrote that. If you meant it seriously, you have a very odd view of what constitutes a “threat of violence”.
Yes, it’s against the law to make threats of violence against the president (or of anyone else, for that matter), and threats must be taken seriously. But seeing these t-shirts as threats of violence — implicit or otherwise — is a major stretch. You see that “any reasonable person” would see them as threats — I disagree.
But “regime change begins at home”??? The only precedent we have in this country for domestic regime change (or attempted regime change) by violence are the American Revolutionary War and the Civil War. All other regime change has been done at the voting booth. There is no valid reason to assume that “regime change begins at home” is a threat of violence.
The other shirt, which said “Love America, Hate Bush” is not violent. It’s not a threat to state what you love and what you hate.
If we pursue criminal charges for these t-shirts, we are no better than Argentina under Juan Peron — or any other dictatorship ruled by a despot.
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:00 am> I am very disappointed the state or federal
> government did not pursue criminal charges
> against these folks.
Hahahaha. Sorry, I’m reasonably sure the state or federal government has at least a few lawyers who understand the 1st amendment.
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 am