Gen. Batiste’s Op-Ed That The WSJ And The Washington Times Didn’t Want You To See
Gen. Batiste’s Op-Ed That The WSJ And The Washington Times Didn’t Want You To See
Our guest blogger is Ret. Maj. Gen. John Batiste, the former Commanding General of 1st Infantry Division.
For my first post here at ThinkProgress, I thought I would share something a little different from what you usually read here — something from a conservative perspective. I think this is especially fitting, given the new poll of foreign policy experts by Foreign Policy Magazine and the Center for American Progress, which shows 64 percent of conservative analysts feel the so-called “surge” in Iraq is having no impact, or a negative effect.
The following is an op-ed I wrote two weeks ago, which neither the Wall Street Journal or Washington Times wanted to consider, so I’m posting it here…
Over a year and a half ago, I made a gut-wrenching decision to leave the Army in order to speak out about the war in Iraq. I turned my back on over 31 years of service and what by all accounts would have been a great career. I realized that I was in a unique position to speak out on behalf of Soldiers and their families. I had a moral obligation and duty to do so. My family and I left the only life we knew and entered the political debate. As a two-time combat veteran, I understand the value of thorough planning and deliberate execution. I understand what it takes to win. As a life-long Republican, I am prepared to carry on with the debate for as long as necessary. I have been speaking out for the past 17 months and there is no turning back.
As a conservative, I am all for a strong military and setting the conditions for success. America goes to war to win. I am not anti-war and am committed to winning the struggle against world-wide Islamic extremism. But, I am outraged that elected officials of my own party do not comprehend the predicament we are in with a strategy in the Middle East that lacks focus and is all but relying on the military to solve the diplomatic, political, and economic Rubik’s Cube that defines Iraq. Our dysfunctional interagency process in Washington DC lacks leadership and direction. Many conservatives in Congress have allowed the charade to go on for too long.
It is disappointing that so many elected representatives of my party continue to blindly support the administration rather than doing what is in the best interests of our country. Traditionally, my party has maintained a conservative view on questions regarding our Armed Forces. For example, we commit our military only when absolutely necessary. In the same way conservatives have always argued against government excess in social programs, the lives our young men and women in uniform, our most precious resource, are not to be used on wars of choice or for nation building. The military theorist Carl von Clausewitz taught us that wars are to be fought only as a last resort–the extension of politics by other means.
These principles are apparently not understood by many of the Republicans in our Congress. Besides the fact that many conservatives allowed President Bush to jump head-first into a war of choice, the bullheadedness of Congressional Republicans who argue for staying the course runs contrary to conservative values. Many politicians of my party continue to argue that we must liberally use up whatever our military has left. Bottom line, the Republican Congress of the last six years abrogated its Constitutional duty and share in the responsibility for the debacle in Iraq.
Our all-volunteer military cannot continue the current cycle of deployments for much longer. America’s national strategy in Iraq is akin to a four legged stool with legs representing diplomacy, political reconciliation, economic recovery, and the military. The glue holding it all together must be the mobilization of the United States in support of the incredibly important effort to defeat world-wide Islamic extremism. The only leg on the stool of any consequence is the military–it is solid titanium and high performing, the best in the world. After almost six years since September 11, our country is not mobilized behind this important work and the diplomatic, political, and economic legs are not focused and lack leadership. Most Americans now appreciate that the military alone cannot solve the problem in Iraq. In this situation, the stool will surely collapse.
Our military and our treasury are not unlimited resources. The war in Iraq is breaking our fine Army and Marine Corps, and we are perilously close to doing damage that will take more than a decade to fix. Our brigades and divisions in Iraq today are at near full strength because the rest of the force has been gutted. We cannot place America in a position of weakness as it just begins its long war against world-wide Islamic extremism. The Republican administration is bleeding our national treasure in blood and dollars with little to show for it.
The high price we are paying might be worth it if Iraq’s many factions were making meaningful progress to achieve political reconciliation. But, after more than four years, Iraqis are no closer to settling their differences and the sitting Shia government is ineffective. With insufficient coalition and Iraqi security forces on the ground, the myth of Sisyphus is playing out over and over again. The Iraqi Parliament goes on vacation instead of working, and every few months, it seems, another Iraqi political faction walks out of the process. To me, continuing to expend money and American lives on a nation that shows little drive to solve its own problems is the foreign policy equivalent of a welfare queen.
The only way to stabilize Iraq and allow our military to rearm and refit for the long fight ahead is to begin a responsible and deliberate redeployment from Iraq and replace the troops with far less expensive and much more effective resources–those of diplomacy and the critical work of political reconciliation and economic recovery. In other words, when it comes to Iraq, it’s time for conservatives to once again be conservative.
– Major General John Batiste, US Army (retired)
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Trolls, please read what this honorable, distinguished serviceman has to say. Take off the Neoturd blinders and witness reality, ignorant traitors.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:46 pmFiled under: Military, Republican, Shite
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmWell, he is on the right track – we need to get out of this mess – now.
Personally I support a full withdrawal – all the way back to the US, but if “redeployment” actually ends the murder of innocent Iraqis, that’s obviously a good move.
Will politicians follow this advice? Doesn’t appear that way. We’re going to have to end this war eventually – and more killing isn’t going to improve Iraq, make us safer, or anything else they promise us.
The time to end this insanity is now.
Some follow up reading:
“The Consequences of Staying In Iraq”
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/the_consequences_of_staying_in_iraq
kudos to general batiste and all-around slurs and epithets to the wsj and washington times for not giving him a voice…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmIsn’t Buttiste the traitor?
Comment by Makarios — August 22, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
What a typically conservative response. They love the men and women of our armed forces until they’re no longer on duty. Then they abandon them at Walter Reed, cut their disability benefits for PTSD and other injuries, and call them traitors for speaking their minds.
One would think people so willing to send our military into battle would have a bit more respect for the men and women in it.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:47 pmIsn’t Buttiste the traitor?
Comment by Makarios — August 22, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
*****************************************
Tell me you’re kidding…that you’re not the moronic simpleton your post suggests.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmThank you, General Batiste, for having the courage and personal integrity for saying what needed to be said.
I am a former active duty Marine, and I extend to you a heartfelt Semper Fi for your service to this country.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmWow, good on you General Batiste. Why don’t you send that op-ed piece to the Washington Post or the New York Times. I bet one of them would be happy to print it. Unfortunately you sent it to the two most conservative papers in the nation.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:49 pmBrave words, but I’m not sure redeployment is the fix. I’d rather just get out. Ethnic tensions have been bottled for too long; they’re going to find a way to kill each other no matter what. If Shiites want to form a pact with Iran there is nothing we can do to stop the new “sovereign” state. What’s more, I’d rather our military and corporate interests not inhabit the monstrously ostentatious embassy we’ve built with the help of slave labor and continue pressuring Iraq’s elites, whomever they may turn out to be, into signing our IMF-backed oil bill.
Sadly nothing will do more to prevent preemptive war than pissing away our billions.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pmlol he must mean the Democrat party.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pmseems Bush the decider was speaking to some Vietnam vets and made his mind up to stay
so will the democrats fall in line
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:51 pmMajor General John Batiste for President! Finally someone with some sense and first-hand experience of what damage Bush is doing to the world and especially America. Bush is destroying America.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:52 pmOh yeah, well if you don’t like the way the war is being fought why don’t you just leave the military!
Oh…wait…
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:53 pmReading Batiste’s unconvincing OpEd, one has to censure him for FAILING TO PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE BUSH STRATEGY, other than defeatism in the form of withdrawal. As such, Batiste is on the same, lowlife level as RINO Ron Paul (the mentally ill libtard masquerading as a Repub) because both dare call themselves Republicans while aggressively touting libtarded principles of surrender, withdrawal and defeatism. Batiste’s credibility (what an oxymoron) is totally destroyed because this chump actually served UNDER RUMMIE, and during that time never opened his mouth to complain about the allegedly appalling policies of Bush! If he would’ve done so then, he’d have credibility. However, he only “spoke out” when he was irrelevant–when he was retired and no longer had the necessary perspective of the war as an active general on duty. Rumor has it Batiste was resentful for not being promoted under Rummie as he expected. This is certainly the best explanation for Batiste’s mental illness.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmGeneral,
Thank you for your continued service to our great nation.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmWell, General, you draw the picture, color in all different parts, put it in a frame and hang it on the wall. And yet, you don’t state what is glaringly obvious between the lines of your post:
That the Republican Party since the selection of George Bush in 2000 has with venal disregard employed the US military post 9-11 against it’s fiercest adversary: the United States Democratic party.
Since the mid term elections in 2002 and the Iraq Resolution, any Democrat who has attempted to speak out against the Iraq War or any illegal conduct by the Administration in pursuit of the so-called War on Terror, have been shouted down as ‘against the troops’ or unpatriotic. The natural desire to rally behind the military in the field, no matter the mission, has been cynically coopted with one goal in mind: perpetual Republican majority.
Why don’t you just come out and say it?
Dwell on Teddy Roosevelt for a second:
“To announce there must be no criticism of the President, and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, it is morally treasonous to the American public.â€
– President Theodore Roosevelt
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmI applaud the sensibility of the article, though the reference to the mythical figure of a welfare queen stings. Iraq is destroying the budget of the USA in a way that welfare queens never would have if they had existed.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:54 pmWhat a pinko commie! Either you stand in solidarity with the republican brotherhood or you stand with the democrats and terrorists!
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:56 pmI’m surprised he hasn’t demanded the cessation of hostilities against a sovereign nation. But then that wouldn’t be profitable for the death merchants.
Apparently 1 MILLION dead isn’t enough.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pm“I thought I would share something a little different from what you usually read here — something from a conservative perspectiveâ€
No Gen. Batiste, we here often get a “conservative†prospective here —— just usually not an honest one!
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmIt seems that the big hold-up for our exit is getting the oil bill passed. Any Iraqi in his or her right mind will never pass the bill because it requires that Iraq effectively renounces almost all rights to any natural resource (mainly oil) income for at least the life time of the current people’s great-great grand children. Without that w, or his successor, will not leave. We are becoming bancrupt and losing an effective military, but the administration in DC will have nuclear bombs to fall back on.
In truth, the Iraqi people can’t solve their political problems until we get out, but a solution is not really our “leadership’s” desire. Solving the political problem will make them less likely to sign such an unfair and politically impossible to defend bill.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pmSatirical I’m sure, but makes my point:
What a pinko commie! Either you stand in solidarity with the republican brotherhood or you stand with the democrats and terrorists!
Comment by United Trolls of America — August 22, 2007 @ 3:56 pm,/em>
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:58 pmThank you General for speaking the truth. This is not a red or blue issue, it is an American issue. We have stepped too far away from the checks and balances our founding fathers built into the constitution and toward divisiveness and a ruling elite as a way of life. As a former Iron Ranger (1/16th INF) soldier I appreciate your candor and soldier’s viewpoint. Whetherr redployment or total withdrawal, there are some realities that our government created that we will feel the reprecussions of for decades to come.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:58 pmprospective = perspective
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:58 pmBush lost his mind long ago, Tobey. He’s trying to ride it out until he can go back to Crawford and clear out brush for the rest of his days.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 pmOr at least until the trials start…
This is certainly the best explanation for Batiste’s mental illness.
Comment by BatisteisaHERO— August 22, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Really? How so?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:01 pmGeneral,
You are wrong in saying the people in charge of this war don’t get what is really happening. They do.
They’re just making too much money for themselves and their cronies to give a damn about trivialities like our children’s blood and our national treasury.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:03 pmAh, that must be why Bush formed the Iraq Study Group: to author a defeatist strategy he would never vouch for (redeploying to Iraq) and pass the bill on to taxpayers for nothing by turning around and doing the exact opposite, creating the surge.
Brilliant!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:03 pmWith all due respect, General . . . some of us reached precisely the same conclusions you’ve come to. But we did it a very long time ago. Sadly, I’m afraid this is rather like closing the barn doors long after the horses have escaped.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:04 pmI would like the general to comment on the following;
did the majority of our generals advise against or for the invasion of Iraq?
we know the president ignored the plans if we were to invade so I would like a two fold answer to the following question if you don’t mind;
“would the generals have been for the invasion of Iraq if the existing plans for such an invasion were implimented?”
“if the answer is yes, werre they for the invasion if they knew the plans would not be implimented?”
obviously the second part can only be answered if the the first question is answered in the affirmative
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:05 pm*
thank you for coming to CAP/TP with you commentary, general…
i, myself, do no think conservatism excludes being progressive…
thank you, and your family, for choosing to do what is right,
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:06 pmfor speaking out, and speaking the truth…
…
Another patriot who’s walked the walk over there and has earned the right to be listened to — just like the soldiers from the 82nd Airborne.
Thank you, General. I agree that we have the best military in the world and it is being shamefully misused.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:07 pmBush cited a quote from Osama bin Laden today. Why do the Republicans continually cite Osama as a source? Is Osama a Republican pundit or is he just the Republican’s best friend?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:07 pmReading Batiste’s unconvincing OpEd, one has to censure him for FAILING TO PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE BUSH STRATEGY, other than defeatism in the form of withdrawal.
you are under some kind of depraved opinion that we are supposed to be in Iraq at all?
that there is some kind of victory to be had?
that this is not a civil war that we can do nothing about?
the war is over, the president initiated an attack that provoked a civil war, asking for an alternative to the failed “strategy” is like asking for an alternative to the sun rising
the sun rises, there is nothing to do about that, this president’s occupation is a failure, there is nothing to be done about that
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:08 pmI have seen the enemy, and it are us
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:08 pmWelcome to the Netroots Nation, General. Thank you for your service and thank you for your willingness to be honest with yourself the American people.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:09 pmOf course we can criticize the General for failing to state his position earlier. But I prefer to light a candle instead of cursing the darkness and this enlightenment from General Bastiste should be appreciated. This is a very courageous man who has anted-up everything he has to give including his very career in order to speak out for the good of America. This man is a patriot.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:12 pmThoughtful commentary, General. Thanks.
A study came out that shows liberals read more than conservatives, which might explain why the conservative papers declined your opinion piece. Too many hard words, too much reality, and too much common sense for their readers.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:14 pmIt’s simple really, most Republicans in power LOVE WAR now. They are enriching themselves greatly with the profits made from the war and oil machines. They have no reason to stop. Greed is now the driving force.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:15 pmThey have chosen money and Party over country and it is sickening.
The General’s service and comments are in the highest traditions of the military. As a soldier he did his duty and served with honor and courage. As an American he walked away from the military he loved in order to say what must be said. This is another example of a man following in the footsteps of George Washington. If only, as a nation, we drop the insane rhetoric of insults and partisan insanity. When liberals and conservitives can work together as Americans, then perhaps we can move the country back to where it belongs.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pmImpeach Bush, Cheney and Gonzales and Save the Constitution.
Thank you, Gen Batiste.
Have considered becoming an Independent?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:17 pmAlls I can say is..
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.
Thank you.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:18 pmIt is disappointing that so many elected representatives of my party continue to blindly support the administration rather than doing what is in the best interests of our country.
Members of both major parties (and Joe LIEberman’s party) can sympathize with this statement.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:18 pmFirst, let me say it’s nice that there are still people who can be Republican and against the war (my dad’s on the list as well — he served in VietNam and saw this debacle coming a mile away).
But let me also say that, while I understand a Soldier’s job is to follow orders, it is not that Soldier’s job to follow false, flawed or bad-faith orders. In fact, as you well know, the military allows for such an exception.
So why did you not use that exception at the time?
Don’t get me wrong — I am quite glad you have decided to put your good name, career and knowledge into the effort to stop the Iraq disaster.
But the only thing that could have possibly kept you from doing so while still in uniform — when it could have made a much, much larger difference — is a fear of retribution in the form of no promotions or, worse yet, perhaps busting you down a rank or two.
So was it one of those, or were you just a bit late coming to the realization that this war is being ran by a bunch of people who lacked the testicular fortitude to serve (Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, etc.) and is being done so at great profit for themselves and their buddies (Blackwater, Haliburton, et al)?
Again, thank you for your insights, and I sincerely hope you respond to comments (at least those with responding to — please ignore the idiotic trolls).
.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:20 pmThank you General Batiste – I appreciate your demonstration that instant gratification was not a viable position in any of the wars we have fought, nor is it now. Senators and military personnel (of the day) are on record stating that the Japanese would be culturally unable to adapt to democracy. As that position regarding an old entrenched and foreign culture has been proven wrong, I am hoping you, too, will be proven wrong.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:20 pmWho cares what a conservative thinks? They’re the screw-ups.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:21 pmMy question is, with the newspapers slobbering all over each other to print O’Hanlon and Pollacks-to be blunt-crap, it’s AMAZING to me how quickly they run from a real war hero with a real story to tell…
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:22 pmAsk the trolls why so many officers down at CentCom immediately change their registrations from “Republican” to “Independent” once they are retired from the Service and are truly “free” to do so.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:22 pm“Since the mid term elections in 2002 and the Iraq Resolution, any Democrat who has attempted to speak out against the Iraq War or any illegal conduct by the Administration in pursuit of the so-called War on Terror, have been shouted down as ‘against the troops’ or unpatriotic.”
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
I don’t think it’s as bad as it used to be. First, that dog’s getting a little old to hunt anymore. Second, now that a majority of Americans disapprove of our involvement in Iraq, it’s getting tougher and tougher to make labels of “unpatriotic” and “traitor” stick. And third — since the Dems are the ones calling for withdrawal and the troops return home, for the Webb Amendment so soldiers can get a decent respite between deployments, for armored vehicles and body armor to protect them, and for decent pay — it’s become more obvious that it’s the Democrats who support the troops and it’s the Republicans who don’t.
Yes, there are still a few who try to hurl the “you don’t support the troops!” accusation at the libs, including many trolls on this site, but nobody really pays attention to them anymore. They’re like the armless and legless guy in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who is still trying to pick a fight.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:22 pmGeneral, I respect your perspective on the war in Iraq, but I do not agree with it. When you notice a problem, you fix it. Sadaam may not have had physical interactions with terrorists, but he funded organizations that supported the destruction of western civilization. For example, Michael Vick may not have physically tortured the dogs, but he funded the gambling ring (dog fighting), which is even more horric because the funding helped his associates purchase a home and equipment. Plan=money=logistics=personnel=attack. General, I am confident we have made the right choice. The problem was that we didn’t go into the war with a robust number of soldiers and equipment. If we would have inserted 150,000 troops at the beginning of the war, the mission would have been close to being accomplished by now. Secretary Rumsfield made bad choices and we are suffering because of him. General, we must accomplish the goal of securing Iraq so it can be stabilized. Conservatives have accepted the fact that a unified political government will not be established. Our goal is to stabilize the region and give them a reason to fight against terrorist organizations/countries like Iran, Syria, ect. General, I salute you for your service and I know that God will continue to be with you. Jesus is on your side, as well as the troops. God Bless!!!
Daryll
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pmWho cares what a conservative thinks? They’re the screw-ups.
Comment by Perry Logan — August 22, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
they don’t think, they do what they’re told. Once they start to think, they’re automatically liberals, like the General. Welcome to the Light, General, we’re glad you finally woke up to the true danger to the USA: rightwing morons.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pm“However, he only “spoke out†when he was irrelevant–when he was retired and no longer had the necessary perspective of the war as an active general on duty. Rumor has it Batiste was resentful for not being promoted under Rummie as he expected. This is certainly the best explanation for Batiste’s mental illness.
Comment by BatisteisaRINO — August 22, 2007 @ 3:54 pm”
I guess you missed this, or your comprehension is poor to NONE…..
“Over a year and a half ago, I made a gut-wrenching decision to leave the Army in order to speak out about the war in Iraq. I turned my back on over 31 years of service and what by all accounts would have been a great career. I realized that I was in a unique position to speak out on behalf of Soldiers and their families.”
Obviously, YOU have NEVER served!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One CANNOT speak out while wearing the uniform!!!!!!!!!!
So, in order to be more EFFECTIVE at protecting his men he left the military so he could NOT be stifled by Bush as to what he could say!!!!!!
In otherwords…….
He quit his position so Bush could not order him to say nothing or tell him what to say!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:24 pmThank you, General.
Personally, I think katy nailed it with this:
“i, myself, do no think conservatism excludes being progressive…”
Dead on, katy. I’m a fiscal conservative/social liberal that believes in keeping government as small as possible while still remaining effective in protecting and providing for its citizens and keeping it out of people’s personal business and lifestyles.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:25 pmComment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
What are you doing on this thread? It has nothing to do with homosexuality.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:25 pmMy question is, with the newspapers slobbering all over each other to print O’Hanlon and Pollacks-to be blunt-crap, it’s AMAZING to me how quickly they run from a real war hero with a real story to tell…
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 22, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Yeah, but the papers Batiste approached were a Murdoch rag and a Moonie fishwrap — both with agendas that Batiste’s piece didn’t fit. Bilbobaggins was right — he should have shopped it around to REAL papers.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 pmDaryll
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Daryll, you’re an idiot. The Saudis are the major funders of Islamic terrorism, and Bush kisses them on the lips and holds their hands on walks through the garden. Saddam was perfectly well-contained, and the only funding he was involved with was after the fact. The main reason for Islamic terrorism is American terrorism, and earlier British terrorism, and Israeli terrorism. it is their only weapon, and the only way to stop it is to stop killing them and stealing their resources and culture.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:27 pmFor example, Michael Vick may not have physically tortured the dogs, but he funded the gambling ring (dog fighting), which is even more horric because the funding helped his associates purchase a home and equipment.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
What is this an example of?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:27 pmThe problem was that we didn’t go into the war with a robust number of soldiers and equipment. If we would have inserted 150,000 troops at the beginning of the war, the mission would have been close to being accomplished by now.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Daryll wants a do-over. How many tries do you think the Iraqi people can stand? What happened to staying only as long as the Iraqi people wanted you to stay?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:27 pmBy the way, General.
Do you realize that the Washington Time is owned by Rev Sun Myung Moon? We call it the Moonie Times.
Just so ya know.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmThank you, General, for speaking up.
Now can you follow up with an assessment on the administration’s plans with regard to Iran? Note the very next article in thinkprogress.org from your Op-Ed, Bolton wants to go into Iran now.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmGen. Batiste I can’t thank you enough for your publicly denouncing Bush’s failed policies in Iraq.
I know more than a few conservatives who now think the war is wrong but were too ashamed to admit they made a mistake.
Since you started speaking out they too have started openly objecting to the war.
BTW is there any chance that Gen. Clark can be talked into running for vice president?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmFor those asking why he did not come out earlier, let me assure you that he did……
He appeared before a Congressional hearing with several other Generals and stated almost the same thing on CSPAN!!!!!
This is really not new news, unless you don’t watch CSPAN.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmComment by missmolly — August 22, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Yes maybe, but the damage was done a long time ago by the ‘you’re with us or you’re against us’ fascists. And you know, I don’t hear anyone with a shout at the WH in 2008 saying that the war itself was wrong, more that it was executed ‘incompetently’.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmI could agree that the war has been mismanaged but it is not a mistake to fight terrorism over there. Especially when our politicians are so timid about shoring up our borders and tracking terrorists back here.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:30 pmGeneral, I salute you for your service and I know that God will continue to be with you. Jesus is on your side, as well as the troops. God Bless!!!
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Give it a rest, Daryll.
Scroll on down, maybe there’s something about butt sekks.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:30 pmIsn’t Buttiste the traitor?
Comment by Makarios — August 22, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pm———————————–
A couple of the first posts reference this one by Makarios. What happened to the original post by Makarios??? I’ve had several posts disappear – none of them vulgar, and all of them progressive-leaning. Anyone know why so many posts on TP disappear? I’m beginning to wonder about TP…
I could agree that the war has been mismanaged but it is not a mistake to fight terrorism over there. Especially when our politicians are so timid about shoring up our borders and tracking terrorists back here.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — August 22, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
The terrorists did not come from Iraq! They were not funded by Iraq! They were not based in Iraq! Saddam would not allow those religious loonies in his country — it was his own loonie bin.
We attacked a country that did not attack us, and in the process we are less safe here, because by our presence in that region, we create more terrorists every single day.
Get it?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:34 pmI could agree that the war has been mismanaged but it is not a mistake to fight terrorism over there. Especially when our politicians are so timid about shoring up our borders and tracking terrorists back here.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — August 22, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Wow, those terrorists just sprang up out of nowhere after the US invaded, eh? I guess since “we’re already there, maybe we should keep fighting them, man – they keep on growing in numbers, why is that?”
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pmI’m beginning to wonder about TP…
Comment by Vet — August 22, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Makarios aka Mr Pee is probably in moderation, due to his habit of trashing this blog.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pmComment by Vet — August 22, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Yes, this thread is being censored. Try not to use the word ‘Israel’ in a point.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:36 pmThank you sir for speaking out. Please continue to do so.
Daryll, We did invade with over 145,000 troops. 5,000 more would not have achieved your revisionist historical inaccuracy.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:36 pmI can’t believe that this got rejected by WSJ. Any paper that even pretends to adhere to good journalism would have an obligation to print this.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:36 pmFor example, Michael Vick may not have physically tortured the dogs, but he funded the gambling ring (dog fighting), which is even more horric because the funding helped his associates purchase a home and equipment.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
What is this an example of?
Comment by Egreggious — August 22, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Individuals who play a financial part of violent crimes.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:37 pmMakarios aka Mr Pee is probably in moderation, due to his habit of trashing this blog.
Comment by Zooey — August 22, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
I never associate Mr Pee with moderation.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:37 pmIndividuals who play a financial part of violent crimes.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Ah you mean like the Administration funding Iranian terrorist groups?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:38 pm#68 – Or anything negative about Hillary!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pmhmmm. they(nurses and boss) just took my coworker to the ER.
hmmm.
:(
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pmI never associate Mr Pee with moderation.
Comment by Egreggious — August 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Luckily, TP does. :-D
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:40 pmWhat is this an example of?
Comment by Egreggious — August 22, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Individuals who play a financial part of violent crimes.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason, I was under the impression that it was an example of this:
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Thank you sir for speaking out. Please continue to do so.
Daryll, We did invade with over 145,000 troops. 5,000 more would not have achieved your revisionist historical inaccuracy.
Comment by hellinabucket — August 22, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
How do you know? Once Saddam was overthrown, we would have had more than enough soldiers to secure the region. Rumsfield failed us.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pmhmmm. they(nurses and boss) just took my coworker to the ER.
hmmm.
:(
Comment by whiteyfresh — August 22, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
What happened?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pmComment by whiteyfresh — August 22, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
I hope your coworker will be OK.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:42 pmThe terrorists did not come from Iraq! They were not funded by Iraq! They were not based in Iraq! Saddam would not allow those religious loonies in his country — it was his own loonie bin.
We attacked a country that did not attack us, and in the process we are less safe here, because by our presence in that region, we create more terrorists every single day.
Get it?
Well said Zooey.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmAsk the trolls why so many officers down at CentCom immediately change their registrations from “Republican†to “Independent†once they are retired from the Service and are truly “free†to do so.
Comment by Menehune — August 22, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
They aren’t allowed to change parties while they are in the service? Hunh, I didn’t know that.n That sucks.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmWe attacked a country that did not attack us, and in the process we are less safe here, because by our presence in that region, we create more terrorists every single day.
Get it?
Comment by Zooey
No, I don’t get it. How are we less safe here by preoccupying (and killing) the terrorists over there.
You assume there is a limitless supply of terrorists and that by fighting (and killing) them over there you create more.
So is the answer to pull back and hope they don’t attack us? Good luck with that strategy. We tried it in the 90’s. Led to 9/11.
Take the blinders off, Zooey
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmwell, he was FINE til about 4:05pm-stuck his head out the office,sd “I don’t feel well, can you call a nurse?” looked white as a ghost,which freaked me out(he’s black) and glazed over-nurses took him to back-sd had chest pains, took to ER.
freaky……
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmWell said Zooey.
Comment by JG — August 22, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
J, sometimes I think the top of my head is going to come off.
I should just do my reading for school. *sigh*
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pmIndividuals who play a financial part of violent crimes.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Ah you mean like the Administration funding Iranian terrorist groups?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Proof, TerrytheTurtle (please do not include posts from left wing news articles/webpages because their is a good chance that the information has been distorted).
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pmIndividuals who play a financial part of violent crimes.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Ah you mean like the Administration funding Iranian terrorist groups?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pmBasically the 80’s was Reagan funding muljihadeen in Afghanistan that becom the taliban which then funded al queda Reagan funding the contras in Iran and Reagan and Bush Sr. funding Saddam in Iraq. The current situation is cleaning up Reagan’s mess and they want to build a statue of the guy in Congress.
Zooey, I know what you mean..
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmKudos, General. Thanks for your service and for speaking out.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmI could agree that the war has been mismanaged but it is not a mistake to fight terrorism over there. Especially when our politicians are so timid about shoring up our borders and tracking terrorists back here.
Comment by Cynicon Implant — August 22, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
“Our” politicians? bush is entirely and completely reponsible for the failure to defend this country and 9/11 and subsequently. he is not “our” politician, he is a fake, a thief and a traitor. he is “your” politician. Fighting terrorism over there begets one result: more terrorists.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:45 pmI should just do my reading for school. *sigh*
Comment by Zooey — August 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
And have hot safe sex.
Sorry, Daryll.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pmProof, TerrytheTurtle (please do not include posts from left wing news articles/webpages because their is a good chance that the information has been distorted).
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Yes, distorted by those biases called reality and facts.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pmGeneral, I salute you for your service and I know that God will continue to be with you. Jesus is on your side, as well as the troops. God Bless!!!
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Daryl go look up what the Sermon on the Mount says then get back to me about the righteousness of starting wars.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pmAnd have hot safe sex.
Sorry, Daryll.
Comment by Egreggious — August 22, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Heh. I wish….
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:48 pmRumsfeld alone didn’t fail us. The president, the vice president and several other key players failed us.
The republicans failed us as the General points out. silent democrats failed us. News outlets failed us. All who follow the fools fail us. Daryll, you follow the fool.
The list goes on.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:49 pmBatiste attempted to get this piece into the Wingnut rags because the 28%ers are the ones who need to hear it the most.
Redeployment is THE first step toward total withdrawal which is the only solution to this stalemate.
Thank you General.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:49 pmBut your flag decal won’t get you
Into Heaven Anymore
They’re ALREADY overcrowded
From your dirty little war
Jesus don’t like killin’
No matter what the reason’s for
And your flag decal won’t get you
Into Heaven Anymore
–John Prine
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:50 pmRedeployment is THE first step toward total withdrawal which is the only solution to this stalemate.
Thank you General.
Comment by Not Canadian — August 22, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Good post, good points.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:51 pmRumsfield failed us.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
Our entire government failed us and civilization. Thanks to Bushco we live in a criminal nation. You know, a nation that invades others that HAVE NOT ATTACKED US!
You had better hope God forgives you ’cause humanity tends to be, a bit, judgmental.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pmBTW, you don’t get to decide about whether, or not, God forgives you. Assuming He exists, He makes that determination.
Proof, TerrytheTurtle (please do not include posts from left wing news articles/webpages because their is a good chance that the information has been distorted).
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/25/wiran25.xml
Daily Telegraph, St Darryl – right-wing Uk paper.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/17/iran.bombing/index.html
CNN lists more details of the attacks, and the innocent people hurt.
Or you can take it on ‘faith’….
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmProof, TerrytheTurtle (please do not include posts from left wing news articles/webpages because their is a good chance that the information has been distorted).
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
You mean as opposed to the outright lies of rightwing propaganda outfits? Y*ou don’t get to pick and choose where the facts come from, dildo. Go f*ck yourself, trash.
Comment by ronjazz — August 22, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
How about telling pundits in your party to cease transforming this war into a partisan issue. That is not the main objective of this war. Why does your party continue to dwell on the negative (deaths), instead of the positive (decrease in terrorist acts in Baghdad, etc.)? Your party aides terrorism and America knows it. This is the reason why the approval rating for the House and Senate is low. Keep blowing it Dems because 08′ will be here soon.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmComment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
What are you doing on this thread? It has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Comment by Egreggious — August 22, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
Men in uniform make Darryl horny.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmDaryll, what does God think of Allah?
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pmBTW, you don’t get to decide about whether, or not, God forgives you. Assuming He exists, He makes that determination.
Comment by pete — August 22, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Please don’t get Daryll started on the magical sky fairy!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pmDaryll, It was the republicans that painted anyone against this conflict as unamerican. All without evidence that would justify sending troops to die.
Questioning the rationale of this conflict isn’t partisan as the Gen. states above.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:57 pm“How do you know? Once Saddam was overthrown, we would have had more than enough soldiers to secure the region. Rumsfield failed us.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:41 pm”
WRONG!!!!!
According to all the EXPERTS, it requires 1 soldier for every 40 people…..
Bush did not even come close to that to make this quagmire successful.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:57 pmHow about telling pundits in your party to cease transforming this war into a partisan issue. That is not the main objective of this war. Why does your party continue to dwell on the negative (deaths), instead of the positive (decrease in terrorist acts in Baghdad, etc.)? Your party aides terrorism and America knows it. This is the reason why the approval rating for the House and Senate is low. Keep blowing it Dems because 08′ will be here soon.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Oh the irony!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:57 pmThank you for your service to our country Major General John Betiste…..May I suggest as some one else here did that you seek out other venues to print you article…Please Sir, also be prepared to duck often…As you know the present republican party does not take any dissent lightly…Possible point to make, Pat Tillman….Blessings to you and your family.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:58 pmHow about telling pundits in your party to cease transforming this war into a partisan issue. That is not the main objective of this war. Why does your party continue to dwell on the negative (deaths), instead of the positive (decrease in terrorist acts in Baghdad, etc.)? Your party aides terrorism and America knows it. This is the reason why the approval rating for the House and Senate is low. Keep blowing it Dems because 08′ will be here soon.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Dems (not my party, by the way, asswipe) didn’t start this disaster, Repukes did. Terrorist attacks are not down in Bagdad compared to 2001, before the idiot deserter Bush decided to put his dick where his brain should be. Your party IS TERRORISM, and the whole world knows it. That’s why, no matter what your polls tell you, the GOP is done, and will be buried very shortly.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:01 pmHow about telling pundits in your party to cease transforming this war into a partisan issue.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
You’re right about that. They’re are idiots on both sides of the aisle that refuse to bring this horrible travesty to an end.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pmPlease don’t get Daryll started on the magical sky fairy!
Comment by Zooey — August 22, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Sorry Z. But I can’t stand people using a mental illness (Radical, American, Evangelical, Christianity) as an excuse for killing people.
Also, as mortals, Daryll and his ilk can not know the mind of God. When they claim they do, by their own rules, they are “in sin”. I just can’t help myself pointing it out.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmOh the irony!
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Nice catch!
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmThey’re = There are
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:04 pmProof, TerrytheTurtle (please do not include posts from left wing news articles/webpages because their is a good chance that the information has been distorted).
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ news/ main.jhtml?xml=/ news/ 2007/ 02/ 25/ wiran25.xml
Daily Telegraph, St Darryl – right-wing Uk paper.
http://edition.cnn.com/ 2007/ WORLD/ meast/ 02/ 17/ iran.bombing/ index.html
CNN lists more details of the attacks, and the innocent people hurt.
Or you can take it on ‘faith’….
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
TerrytheTurtle, it’s called diplomacy. We are trying to prevent them from continuing to build nuclear capabilities. Money is the incentive.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmSorry, this war is an entirely partisan issue. Only Republicans are keeping it going, Republicans started it, screwed it up, and are still making billions in profits. War profiteering is treason, by the way. Don’t start this partisan nonsense if you don’t know the facts of the matter. th only good thing to come out of this mess is the final destruction of the GOP Treason Party. Good riddance.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmAlso, as mortals, Daryll and his ilk can not know the mind of God. When they claim they do, by their own rules, they are “in sinâ€. I just can’t help myself pointing it out.
Comment by pete — August 22, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
But Jesus actually told Daryll to nuke Iran.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmDaryll, what does God think of Allah?
Comment by hellinabucket — August 22, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Allah doesn’t exist. Allah is equivalent to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmThe numbers of soldiers needed that were being touted prior to the invasion was over 300,000. Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney and others didn’t want that number to be involved. thought we could rush in, destroy the 3rd world military, capture Saddam and whip some democracy on them and be out within one year.
They failed us all.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 pmWhile I agree with most of what the distinguished general says, he still doesn’t seem to get, what would the focus have been if it had been the right focus?
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 pmThere is no right focus for occupying Iraq for their oil…
Now focus, instead of fucus.
Thank you Sir!
Is it any wonder why the Plutocrats want to censor the Internet on the one hand while painting the information found here as “Conspiracy Theory” on the other.
This is one of the very BEST uses of new media that I have seen. A major public figure, with a tremendously important opinion to share with the people for who he works…that being the AMERICAN PUBLIC, and none of the Mainstream Propaganda Organs will publish it, because it’s TRUE!
Major General, THIS is demonstrative of how seriously our Republic has been over run by the media owners, most of who are more loyal to Israel and the AIPAC/JINSA-controlled Congress than the United States.
Media ownership study ordered destroyed
Sept 14, 2006
‘Every last piece’ destroyed
Adam Candeub, now a law professor at Michigan State University, said senior managers at the agency ordered that “every last piece” of the report be destroyed. “The whole project was just stopped – end of discussion,” he said. Candeub was a lawyer in the FCC’s Media Bureau at the time the report was written and communicated frequently with its authors, he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14836500/
“You can’t tell any more the difference between what’s propaganda and what’s news.”
FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein
15 August, 2006
WE HAVE A CRISIS.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmAccording to all the EXPERTS, it requires 1 soldier for every 40 people…..
Bush did not even come close to that to make this quagmire successful.
Comment by RemoveBush — August 22, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
I might add that disarmament is also key to a successful invasion. Heck, in WW2 we even confiscated bamboo spears from the Japanese. Bushco, on the other hand, seems committed to every man, woman and child in the Mid-East being armed to the teeth. What a bunch of rubes.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmAllah doesn’t exist. Allah is equivalent to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Exactly, except add your god into that mix and you got it.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmTerrytheTurtle, it’s called diplomacy. We are trying to prevent them from continuing to build nuclear capabilities. Money is the incentive.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
diplomacy with bombs? you are even stupider than you appear, and a Bush fellator par excellence. what a tool, what a lousy American you are.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmAllah doesn’t exist. Allah is equivalent to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Just like God, then. Very good.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pmDaryll, are you wise enough to know this. Or just hope that to be true. If God is all knowing he is certainly larger than anything us mere humans can contain in one book.
The major religions in the world overlap. It’s conceivable that us humans can only fathom the pieces that we are most comfortable with.
I know enough to know we don’t know.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmSir, it is an HONOR to read an article from a true conservative. While I may disagree with you on social issues, as I am liberal, I am so happy to see a conservative showing true “conservative colors” in an issue that is so important to the United States. I wish more “true conservatives” would speak out and take their party back from the so-called “neo-cons” who have put a stain on the reputation of all conservatives everywhere.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 pmBravo!, RUCerious,……Blessings
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 pmI have to laugh at the Repugs… they think if they win the argument in September they think that will be good for them… hahahaha it will mean the war will keep raging all through 2008.
Goodbye GOP.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pmAllah doesn’t exist. Allah is equivalent to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Comment by Daryll — August 22, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
So you’re an atheist now? You just said that God doesn’t exist.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 pmAlso, as mortals, Daryll and his ilk can not know the mind of God. When they claim they do, by their own rules, they are “in sinâ€. I just can’t help myself pointing it out.
Comment by pete — August 22, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
I understand completely. :)
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:15 pmComment by ronjazz — August 22, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Well that p*ssed on his bonfire, ronjazz. My comment was censored, although it was a simple clean sentence.
Well St Darryl is off topic and so am I. I’ve cleaned his clock twice already, there’s no more sport to be had. I’m not going to clog up the General’s thread further with troll remains.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:15 pmAt this point, Daryll, doesn’t make sense. Sounds like the Bush I mean the Chenney/Rove regimen.
At least the General is moving forward in reality with about 70% of the American people.
Thank you, sir.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pm“It is disappointing that so many elected representatives of my party continue to blindly support the administration rather than doing what is in the best interests of our country.”
Here’s an idea.. Try switching parties. This is why “my party” is such a dangerous frame.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:33 pmIt ain’t your daddy’s republican party anymore. The republicans are no longer the least bit interested in what is good for the country, but only what is good for their party. They have spent so many years now goose stepping to the whims of their leaders, not daring to express a disagreement for fear it would hurt the party, that they have no idea how to even think about the country first. Arlen Specter is a perfect example. He has some vague idea of what is right, but when push comes to shove it is always party above country.
I’m sorry to say Maj. Gen., but your party left you and those soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan (the forgotten war) behind a long time ago.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:33 pmAfter 911 the country COULD have been mobilizied… not via a draft… but by speaking the truth as Ron Paul does…. point out who really did what and that will show where we went wrong and where the arabs went wrong and what we need to do to fix it… as long as we live a lie in America the arabs will never be convinced and that only leaves quelling them through violence… an inhuman thing to do.
Stop the lies. Call out the arab leaders, religious leaders, Israel, and Americas own foreign policy for what they all actually are with no regard for Political Correctness… THEN we can convince America …and even many arabs that the killing of our children is inhuman and unacceptable.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 pmHere’s an idea.. Try switching parties. This is why “my party†is such a dangerous frame.
Comment by Drew
To which party? The democrats have went along and aided this entire game of the neocons… They were playing these games in the 1990s also… there is NO party that can claim a safe haven from stupidity…. only those that obviously speak the truth despite being booed can be believed any more.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 pmDear Gen Batiste,
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:49 pmYou said as a conservative you are all for a strong military. Let me say that as a liberal, I am for a strong military. Maybe more than you.
Thanks General!
We you and ever other military officer and enlisted-men to stand 24-7 and shout how the GOP is destorying the American military, America, and American values.
Everytime the newtworks cover entiantment and not the importants of your views and opinions is another destruction of America. Please stand up to the GOP organized crimes.
Thanks!
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmIt’s a bit dissappointing that several of my posts today stated how the republicans are destroying this country only to have them blocked.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:54 pmSorry to burst your bubble Daryll, but Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews. They even consider Jesus to be the 3rd prophet of God. The do not consider him the son of God. If you feel that I am wrong, consider that the tomb of Abraham is one of the most holy sites in Mecca, for Muslims.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:55 pmThank you for thinking instead of being another lemming!
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:01 pmComment by Krazny — August 22, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Nice try Krazny, but we have all tried to reason wiith Darryll on his weird religious concepts ,,,, as you can see, to no avail. So he just blindly goes about his plodding way, wandering through his version of reality.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:02 pmThanks Krazny. Your posts won’t change Daryll but I don’t care about that. You show there is so much more out there than what that televanglesist is pushing into Daryll’s brain.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:06 pmThere is no reasoning with today’s republicans. It is not a party, it is a cult. “Loyal Bushies” know the objective is to rule the county, not lead it. Anything, anything that cuts at their meeting that objective is to be destroyed. Dissent? Wear an anti-Bush t-shirt and go to jail. Protest Republicans? Get rounded up and arrested by the dozens. Quit thinking that “republicans” have any concerns for true democracy (verifiable votes- who needs them). They want to rule. They must support their leader or they are admitting they are all wrong. If Bush put an applesauce label on a jar of crap the Base would eat it up and tell you it was the best applesauce they ever tasted. There is no conservative movement. It was, and remains, a cult.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pmComment by Krazny — August 22, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:30 pmIf Bush was going to succeed in Iraq, he would have done it by now.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:32 pm“seems Bush the decider was speaking to some Vietnam vets and made his mind up to stay”
I don’t think so. I think it is just the latest talking point being floated. Last week was we had to stay otherwise it would be genocide. This week it’s “repeat vietnam”. Who knows what it will be next week.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:34 pmSo is the answer to pull back and hope they don’t attack us? Good luck with that strategy. We tried it in the 90’s. Led to 9/11.
Take the blinders off, Zooey
Comment by Cynicon Implant
WOW. Gonna have to file this one in the troll-o-dex. By ‘pulling back’ [cut and run] your basically describing (R)Bush Seniors choice to not go into Baghdad because it would destabilize the region.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pmSo, CI thinks that (R)Bush Seniors decision is responsible for 9/11. Thanks CI for that bit of ‘blinders off’ rational.
As a conservative, I am all for a strong military and setting the conditions for success. America goes to war to win.
As opposed to the dirty libs who are for weakening the military and getting the country bogged down in an unwinnable fiasco of a war.
…Oh, wait.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pmBravo General. Well done. I’m sure it was a difficult piece to write. Please don’t stop. Try to get on some of of the conservative talk shows if you can. I’ll bet if you called up the Michael Medved show, he would have you on. Maybe you could hook up with the seven soldiers who wrote an op-ed in Sunday’s NYTimes.
Phylo out
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pmThe General is correct that we should not use our troops for nation building and the trolls here are calling him a traitor [as they do anyone whos not a lemming as them]
George espoused this very view:
Now, trolls, you know who you are, is this not what Batiste is saying?
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:43 pmComment by Krazny — August 22, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.
Comment by blackball — August 22, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
one I never said they did, read my post carefully. I said they consider Jesus the 3rd prophet of God, and two Jews don’t believe in the Holy Trinity either, but the Christian God and the Jewish God are the same.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:46 pmMighty Aphrodite: “Senators and military personnel (of the day) are on record stating that the Japanese would be culturally unable to adapt to democracy. As that position regarding an old entrenched and foreign culture has been proven wrong, I am hoping you, too, will be proven wrong.”
This is an absurd, tortured comparison. How many American soldiers were killed by Japanese insurgents? None.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm“No, I don’t get it. How are we less safe here by preoccupying (and killing) the terrorists over there.
So, are you saying that all the people in Iraq are terrorists? Because we sure do kill a lot of people there and many of them are innocents.
You assume there is a limitless supply of terrorists and that by fighting (and killing) them over there you create more. “
That is a true statement. Every time we kill an innocent in Iraq or Afghanistan, we create new terrorists. The families of the people we killed now hate us even more than they hated us in the beginning for destroying their country. They may be able to tolerate our destroying their country, they won’t tolerate our destroying their family.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:53 pmYeah, I saw this on Fox earlier.
August 22nd, 2007 at 6:57 pmComment by Krazny — August 22, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
I understand that, however that is a superficial similarity and it can not be used as a serious argument. There is more to religion than just claiming to be decended from Abraham. The differences are so fundamental, that in the eyes of muslims it is sacrilege to worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This is obviously not compatible with the Christian faith.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:00 pmit is sacrilege to worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This is obviously not compatible with the Christian faith.
Comment by blackball
To evangelicals it is sacrilege to worship false idols like the catholics do… i.e. saints…
Those types of differences have nothing to do with the supposed love for god… which is the same god and yet they kill each other… they are all hypocrits that dont really care about god but only their own egos (but that sounds bad so they call it god)…
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:04 pmGeneral Batiste,
Welcome to Think Progress and thank you for your service.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:15 pmI guess Batiste doesn’t understand the Digby principle of Conservatism:
“only those who conservatives agree are conservative are allowed to be conservatives.”
The second a conservative voices opposition to current conservative group-think, s/he is deemed to no longer be a conservative. Hence, regardless of Batiste’s conservative credentials, he is no longer a conservative for having publicly voiced opinions inconsistent with current conservative talking points. (BTW, by the same principle, bush is no longer a conservative.)
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:23 pm.
I have to admit, it is fun watching the wingnut party come apart at the seams like a slow motion train wreck.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:28 pmpluege, another principle is that you support the troops ONLY if those troops support the president’s policies.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pm(sic>This is obviously not compatible with the Christian faith.
Comment by blackball — August 22, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
whether Islam and Christianity are similar is a very different argument. And one I am not trying to make. The point I am trying to make, is that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are one and the same God. Just some vast differences in how we believe, and how we worship.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:44 pmas a voter, i could care less about the grave implications and dire predictions right wingers say would result from an immediate withdrawl of u.s. troops from iraq. indeed, for me the paramount issue right now is neither one of legality, though the war is illegal, nor humanity, though the war is an aberration to human decency. rather, it is simply the fact that we can not afford it. on that basis alone, the wisest course of action would be to get out immediately lest the nation be bankrupted. we can not continue to borrow from china to occupy iraq. of course, one might also reasonably suspect that this particular outcome, like the continuing and insoluble violence in iraq itself, has been a deliberate goal of this nefarious administration from the very beginning.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:47 pmComment #27, from Rick, hits the nail squarely on its pointy little head:
General,
You are wrong in saying the people in charge of this war don’t get what is really happening. They do.
They’re just making too much money for themselves and their cronies to give a damn about trivialities like our children’s blood and our national treasury.
this is why even partial ‘re-deployment’ is an incomplete solution. the Powers That Be (ie, people in charge of this war) intend a permanent occupation, a permanent war, a permanent de-stabilization in Iraq and the region…
why oh why does the traditional media NOT cover those 4 gi-normous bases we’re building?
is it a secret?
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — August 22, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Heh, heh, heh. Some libs can’t even disgusie their loathing of the military when it suits their purpose. ;)
——
I applaud the sensibility of the article, though the reference to the mythical figure of a welfare queen stings.
Comment by jeff — August 22, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Knew that one would get ya. ;)
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 amSo was it one of those, or were you just a bit late coming to the realization that this war is being ran by a bunch of people who lacked the testicular fortitude to serve (Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, etc.) and is being done so at great profit for themselves and their buddies (Blackwater, Haliburton, et al)?
Again, thank you for your insights, and I sincerely hope you respond to comments (at least those with responding to — please ignore the idiotic trolls).
Comment by MD — August 22, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Ya just had to take a shot at him, eh? Kind of makes your thanks sound insincere. ;)
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 amAfter more than sixteen years of sustained effort by the United States to destroy their country (the Gulf War, extremely harsh sanctions and bombings during the interim, and the current U. S. occupation of their country), what possible reason could the Iraqis have to perform like a circus dog (i.e., permanently handing their most precious resource, oil, over to multi-national oil companies) just to please their cruel, imperialistic occupiers?
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:03 amWelcome, General Batiste!
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:09 amSenators and military personnel (of the day) are on record stating that the Japanese would be culturally unable to adapt to democracy. As that position regarding an old entrenched and foreign culture has been proven wrong, I am hoping you, too, will be proven wrong.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 22, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Mighty Hypocrite/VapidVenus
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:54 amThe Senators and military personnel of the day who, you claim, went on record stating that the Japanese would be culturally unable to adapt to democracy obviously knew nothing about Japanese history. Japan, like Germany, had experience with a parliamentary democracy before fascist/militarist coups d’etat in the 1930s. Thus, those who back then (as you claim) and those nowadays who try to use the case of Japan and/or Germany to make comparisons with Iraq do not know what they are talking about, and that includes you dearie.
Toodles.
Makarios please do us a favor, pull your head out of your backside!!!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:24 amGeneral Batiste, I served with you and 1 ID, I am so proud to know you and knowing you are doing just what you think is right, I agree with you whole heartly!! THANKS FOR A JOB WELL DONE, DUTY FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/22/iraq.democracy/
August 23rd, 2007 at 6:50 am” But for the first time, exasperated front-line U.S. generals talk openly of non-democratic governmental alternatives, and while the two top U.S. officials in Iraq still talk about preserving the country’s nascent democratic institutions, they say their ambitions aren’t as “lofty” as they once had been. “Democratic institutions are not necessarily the way ahead in the long-term future,” said Brig. Gen. John “Mick” Bednarek, part of Task Force Lightning in Diyala province, one of the war’s major battlegrounds.”
I’ve always belive an officers duty is to the men under him and his country, the general in his oped stated very well that duty. What amazed me were some of the comments by some people who berate him for telling the truth, these people are not the one’s who have to spill blood or be away from home and family. This war is a carbon copy of the one I was in 38 years ago, it took 50,000 names on a wall before that war was stop I wonder how many names it will take for this one
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:47 amAfter more than sixteen years of sustained effort by the United States to destroy their country (the Gulf War, extremely harsh sanctions and bombings during the interim, and the current U. S. occupation of their country), what possible reason could the Iraqis have to perform like a circus dog (i.e., permanently handing their most precious resource, oil, over to multi-national oil companies) just to please their cruel, imperialistic occupiers?
Comment by curmudgeon — August 23, 2007 @ 2:03 am
Yeah, who did the U.S. and the coalition think we were liberating Kuwait and using sanctions to try to get Saddam to treat his people humanely and stop terrorizing folks. No one wants them to hand over their oil. Oil companies do expect compensation for helping them get their industry up and running. Imagine that! ;)
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:28 pmThe only real choice is Ron Paul in 08, we dont need the same political rhetoric that both sides have been giving the American people for decades. There empty promises of this Utopia from the left or there attempt to legislate morality on the right is just not working. Both sides playing up the the corporate welfare schemes. Ron Paul, the Doctor, the Economist understands this and has provided a simple solution. Just follow the constitution the only oath these wind bags take when they are elected. We wouldnt be in this mess if they would have just done there spelled out function as laid out.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmThank you, General Batiste. I felt very fortunate to have read this here today. Please keep up the good fight.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pmM
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 pmThank you Major General Batiste.
Strange times make for strange bedfellow.
As a “liberal,” I would hasten to point out that many of the values ascribed to “conservatives” are, in fact, common to every person of conscience, crossing all political boundaries.
Perhaps if we could set aside the rhetoric and emphasize our commonalities as humans, we could get back to worrying about and working toward the American Dream, rather than the Iraqi Dream.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:31 amThank you Sir, for your service to your country. The Bush doctrine of preemption has failed and Iraq is its chief casualty. Our brave troops have done a wonderful job, but now is the time to bring them all home. We can no longer win in Iraq militarily. Neither can we force the Iraqi government to make political decisions it no longer wants to make. Changing the leadership in Iraq will only undermine their authority. The surge was a bad idea. Sending more troops into the civil war was a poor idea and it hasn’t worked.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:11 amMany military conservatives were voicing their opinions against the Iraq invasion prior to Feb. of 2003.
In many ways, this is not a new view from the military conservatives. The key difference is that the military conservatives presenting their doubts prior to the invasion were already retired and Gen. Batiste left active duty to speak out.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:32 amThe military conservatives who were against or at least very skeptical of the Iraq invasion include:
Retired Army General Norman Schwarzkopf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52450-2003Jan27?language=printer
Retired Air Force Lt. General Brent Scowcroft
“Scowcroft was a leading Republican critic of U.S. policy towards Iraq before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, which war critics in particular have seen as significant given Scowcroft’s close ties to former President George H.W. Bush. [1] [2] [3] [4].
Scowcroft supported the invasion of Afghanistan as a “direct response†to terrorism.”
(1)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0805-02.htm
(2)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/scowcroft.html
(3)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36644-2004Oct15.html
(4)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54680-2005Jan6.html
August 24th, 2007 at 8:33 amRetired Air Force (Chief of Staff) General Tony McPeak
“In 1996, McPeak served as Oregon state chairman for the Bob Dole for President campaign. During the presidential election of 2000 McPeak endorsed George W. Bush and served as co-chairman of Oregon Veterans for Bush.”
“As the military and foreign policy of the Bush administration coalesced, however, McPeak expressed strong objections, especially with regard to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
McPeak later openly campaigned for Howard Dean’s nomination, and when Dean withdrew, acted as an adviser for the John Kerry campaign.
He was also one of twenty-seven signatories to the statement of the “Committee of Diplomats & Commanders for Change” calling the Bush Administration a failure at “preserving national security” and calling for Bush not to be re-elected.”
August 24th, 2007 at 8:34 amRetired U.S. Army General John M. Shalikashvili – former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Former Military Leaders Urge Caution on War With Iraq
By David Stout
New York Times
Monday, 23 September, 2002
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — Former high-level military commanders told Congress today that the United States should go to war in Iraq only as a last resort, should continue to press for United Nations support in dealing with Iraq and “not be too quick to take no for an answer,” as one of them, Gen. John Shalikashvili, put it.
“We must be very, very careful about going to war, and to do so only when all other attempts to resolve the threat to us have failed,” General Shalikashvili said, “and to do so only with the support of the United States Congress and the American people.”
Shalikashvili later left the Republican party and spoke at the 2004 Democrat Convention.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:35 amThank you General. You will not find much disagreement with your findings here in the “reality-based” blogosphere.
I hope that you are bringing your perspective to those who can make a difference. The people who are enabling the neocons to stay “veto-proof” are the guilty parties, and they are supported mostly by people who have lost track of what is going on.
You may come to the same conclusion that most of us have. Impeachment is our last remaining option.
August 24th, 2007 at 9:14 amWHAT ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION?
I have read that officers like General Batiste take this oath or one like it when originally commissioned and when advanced in rank.
“Officer Oath: I, A.B., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
Officers do not swear or affirm to obey the orders of the president nor do they swear allegiance to the president. According to the supreme law of the land, the invasion and occupation of Iraq was a violation of the Constitution. Those in command had the duty to resist the order and its execution. Since the enlisted personnel’s oath includes in major part the duty to obey the commands of the president and their superior officers in addition to defending the Constitution, they had no recourse other than to rely on the loyalty of their officers to their sworn commitment. The officers did not and are not complying with their oath to protect and defend the Constitution by continuing the war, win, lose, or draw. Additionally they have the continuing duty to protect the troops from needless death or injury due to orders that violate our Constitution
August 24th, 2007 at 2:40 pmWHEN IS A WAR A WAR?
General Batiste said, “I am not anti-war and am committed to winning the struggle against world-wide Islamic extremism.”
It seems to me I have heard that song and dance before war – war against drugs, war against terrorism, and now war against Islamic extremism. Only Congress has the power to declare war but those who are framing the debate are willing to declare war against anything and everything.
Wars are between nations. A nation cannot declare war on a religion or a division thereof. Our military forces exist to defend this country from an imminent attack by a foreign nation. Ideologies, religions, and other belief systems are not nations. The military-industrial complex and the media that publishes their propaganda generally ignore the Constitutional definition of war, particularly the restrictions on the use of our armed forces.
Our military is not to be used other than as permitted by the Constitution. Our armed forces are not to be used to enhance the wealth or power of special interest groups or private enterprises. The refusal of a nation to accept our dictates is not an act or war. The use of armed forces does not make a police action a war.
Acts of terrorism do not make terrorists a nation. If terrorists or extremists are sponsored by a foreign nation are committing acts of war posing and imminent threat to the security of our country, ask Congress for a declaration of war and accept their decision.
So called wars against criminals or criminal activity or anything else Bush chooses to call evil will keep our armed forces in a state of “war†until we run out of men or credit, a no-win situation for the People notwithstanding the propaganda of the neocons and corporate America to the contrary.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:35 pmActs of terrorism do not make terrorists a nation. If terrorists or extremists are sponsored by a foreign nation are committing acts of war posing and imminent threat to the security of our country, ask Congress for a declaration of war and accept their decision.
So called wars against criminals or criminal activity or anything else Bush chooses to call evil will keep our armed forces in a state of “war†until we run out of men or credit, a no-win situation for the People notwithstanding the propaganda of the neocons and corporate America to the contrary.
Comment by Robert Castle — August 24, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
So if no nation claims the terrorists, we can’t go after them? Ya think that’s what the founding fathers intended? Or perhaps they didn’t know what the world would be like in few hundred years and they assumed we would adapt to changes and act accordingly. There weren’t any terrorists flying planes into buildings in George Washinton’s day, now were there? ;)
August 26th, 2007 at 1:56 pmShutting down this site as a result of the General’s comments is one giant step backward for freedom of speech, and the democratic way of life we are suppose to spread around the planet.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:24 pmWITH ALL ITS GUNS AND ALL ITS BOMBSD, THE ARMY IS SCARED OF YOUR WEBSITE!!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 10:56 pmWITH ALL ITS GUNS AND ALL ITS BOMBS, THE ARMY IS SCARED OF YOUR WEBSITE!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 10:56 pm