Webb: Unlike Vietnam, Iraq War’s ‘Strategic Objective’ Was Unrelated To Reason For Invasion
Webb: Unlike Vietnam, Iraq War’s ‘Strategic Objective’ Was Unrelated To Reason For Invasion
In comparing the Vietnam and Iraq wars in a speech last week to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, President Bush implicitly acknowledged that the present course in Iraq bares similarities to the quagmire of Vietnam. Yet the lesson he took from Vietnam was that the United States withdrew too soon, using it as justification to stay the course in Iraq:
One unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America’s withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens, whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms, like boat people, reeducation camps and killing fields.
Today on ABC’s This Week, Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA), a Vietnam veteran who supported the Vietnam war, said that Bush’s conclusion is inaccurate. According to Webb, in Vietnam, the “overall strategic objective” was directly related to the reason for going to war — i.e. ensuring “South Vietnam not fall to communism.” But the “implementation became flawed” and the United States needed to withdraw. On Iraq, he stated:
In Iraq, we’re having a reverse situation. We have an overall strategic objective that was not directly related to what we were attempting to do in the war against international terrorism. We have good people implementing a bad strategy. It’s just not the same situation. … We’re not going to have stability in that region until the American troops are out of Iraq.
Watch it:
Last week, several prominent scholars — including one quoted by Bush — denounced the President’s misuse of history. UCLA historian Robert Dallek, who has written about comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam, said Bush was “twisting history.” “What is Bush suggesting?” asked Dallek. “That we didn’t fight hard enough, stay long enough? That’s nonsense. It’s a distortion.”
Transcript:
MORAN: Senator Webb, you’re a Vietnam veteran, won a Navy Cross there, and have made no secret over the years that you feel that America betrayed the Vietnamese people and abandoned them to a cruel fate. Isn’t that what the president is saying here will happen to the Iraqis if we withdraw?
WEBB: Well, I think I may be one of the few people in government who still on the one hand strongly believes in what we attempted to do in Vietnam, and on the other hand, from the beginning, strongly warned against the strategic blunder of going into Iraq.
They simply are not comparable. If you look at even the opinions of the American people, despite the way that the Vietnam War ended, eight years after the Gulf of Tonkin, in 1972, the American people, by a margin of 74 to 11 percent, still believed that it was important that South Vietnam not fall to communism. The overall strategic objective was strong; the implementation became flawed.
In Iraq, we’re having a reverse situation. We have an overall strategic objective that was not directly related to what we were attempting to do in the war against international terrorism. We have good people implementing a bad strategy. It’s just not the same situation. And in terms of the aftermath…
MORAN: Not that we’re there…
WEBB: In terms of the aftermath, no one in a responsible position in government is saying that we should pull the plug in Iraq and have a precipitous withdrawal. What we’re trying to do is to say, eventually we have to withdraw from Iraq, we have to draw down our troops. Even the military realities of the surge, which have upswung the cycles of deployment, are going to mandate that we reduce our troops, and eventually leave.
We’re not going to have stability in that region until the American troops are out of Iraq. We have to do it in a way that brings in the other countries around the region, allows us to focus on international terrorism, and does not destabilize the region. But it must be done.
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57 Responses to “Webb: Unlike Vietnam, Iraq War’s ‘Strategic Objective’ Was Unrelated To Reason For Invasion”
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The ONLY thing Bush/Cheney, et al about Vietnam was how to avoid going there themselves.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:09 amCall the BS, Sen Webb. Show Bush up for the lying bastard he is. Of course we didn’t go into Iraq to impose democracy, we went their to satisfy Cheney’s PNAC committment.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:11 amBla Bla Bla…
What Webb says is true of course
The neocons dont care……….
They want the oil and they want to kill more arabs to “help” Israel domuinate the mideast
Onward to Iran!!!!
We dont want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud!
There is no more “America”.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:15 amSo Bush wants us to “stay the course” until 53,000 American soldiers are dead? And that’s a good idea? The man is delusional.
There is one very big difference between Vietnam and Iraq. And that is that we were helping the South Vietnamese people at their request. We did not invade Vietnam. The South Vietnamese wanted us there to fight their war for them against an enemy, North Vietnam. We are not in Iraq to help the people of Iraq fight an enemy. We are they enemy! We did not occupy Vietnam, while we are occupying Iraq.
Iraq if an occupation of a foreign company and there is no way you can win an occupation, especially if the country you are occupying wants you out.
Bush’s last reason for our being in Iraq was to provide security so that the government could forge a coalition government representing Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. That isn’t going to happen as long as we are there. The only way the Iraqi’s are ever going to forge any kind of a coalition government is if they are forced to do so. And the only way to force them to do so is by our leaving.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:18 amWebb— 4 (gtrand slam!)
August 26th, 2007 at 11:18 amCorynin- 0
Please, please, don’t allow the trolls to dominate this thread like you have all the other threads for the last couple of days. It serves no purpose to respond to their idiocy unless the purpose is to entertain you and I’m getting the feeling that is what you want. How many of you would stay here if there were no trolls?
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. LET THEM TALK TO EACH OTHER UNTIL THEY GET BORED.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:21 ambilbo, or in Pee’s case, talk to themselves.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:23 amThe difference between the two wars is the difference between shooting yourself in the left foot and shooting yourself in the right foot - regardless of the differences, the similarities and results cannot be recommended.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:26 amKeep talking Sen Webb — LOUDLY.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:35 amMistress Z~
August 26th, 2007 at 11:36 amI thought youse was sleepin in?
UK pulls out of joint Basra headquarters
Britain has withdrawn its contingent from a joint headquarters it shared with Iraqi police in Basra as part of plans to pull its troops out of Iraq’s second city, the British forces say.
Britain, which has had control of security in Basra since it joined the United States in invading Iraq in 2003, has begun withdrawing this year and is expected to pull its forces out of their last base inside the town in the next week or two.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:38 amhttp://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=228468
August 26th, 2007 at 11:38 am3728
August 26th, 2007 at 11:39 amBares ? Bears……
August 26th, 2007 at 11:40 amIraqi prime minister’s isolation growing
Whether Maliki will actually be removed from office won’t be known until Iraq’s parliament comes back from its summer break next month. Replacing him may be difficult.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/19226.html
August 26th, 2007 at 11:41 amfor anyone to continue to assert that the “war” in vietnam was related to communism, one must assume your audience is ignorant beyond the assistance of education.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:42 amif anyone would go back a little bit farther than the concept, you might come to the conclusion that a president that wanted to stop it was killed, one that had the same conclusion chose to help people in this country and lose the power to be re elected, and the first president to resign was forced to stop it because the voice of the people meant something as we watched his criminal regime torn up.
honestly, for a politico to suggest that vietnam wasn’t completely created to benefit the people that make war toys is disingenuous at best.
why is it acceptable to change history? why do we not call such people for their lies? My but we have a lot of troubling, ignorant tools in congress. I would say idiots, but liars aren’t always idiots
Ever since we got bogged down in Iraq, this administration has scoffed at comparisons to Vietnam and suddenly they’ve, well, they’ve flipped and flopped.
The biggest difference between that war and this occupation is that Vietnam actually was a nation, with a common language and common culture. The North had been radicalized during the 20th century because the so-called democracies in the world refused to support them in their attempt to free themselves from French colonialism, but Vietnam existed as something more than lines on a map.
Iraq was an artificial construction (created by those same “democracies” during the same period of colonialism) that has only ever been held together by force.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:43 amWill those around the world ever forgive US for the slaughter and mayhem Bush has created? And as we are not out there protesting loudly as most do/would around the world, isn’t this also our war along with Bush’s?
August 26th, 2007 at 11:45 amNo WMD
No Saddam
looks like no democracy as Bush wants a dictator in there
Bush dont care about Iraqi reconcilliation
WHATS THE POINT apart from Oil
No GTFO
August 26th, 2007 at 11:45 amBUSH SHOULD BE WINDING THIS WAR DOWN NOT LEAVING IT TO THE NEXT PRESIDENT
August 26th, 2007 at 11:47 amWhy is the U.S. opinion regarding Maliki relevant? He was voted into office. The fact that he may be ineffectual & even reviled by his people is relevant to Iraq & should be dealt with by the Iraqis… much like the U.S. should deal with their revulsion of their own leader. Slowly the onion of bullsh!t is stripped away… the democracy pushed by the U.S. is revealed to be more of a supportive wing of the U.S. oil machine… the will of the Iraqi people becomes meaningless as the majority wishes the U.S. would leave. It’s as if the U.S. govt doesn’t give a shit about what the people of Iraq think. Imagine that.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:50 amWhy is the U.S. opinion regarding Maliki relevant?
Mr Bush is pissed at
1 / Norwegians have contracts for Kurdistan Oil
2/ Iraq is building a pipeline to IRan for them to Refine the Oil into petrol
3/ the only contract America has signed so far is a service contract for machinery
4/ Looks like Russia is getting a large contract for Oil
5/ France is getting a contract
GET THE PICTURE ???? OIL again
August 26th, 2007 at 11:54 amalso 27 existing fields will be owned by Iraqi Oil Companies , They can choose whoever they want to help
None are American
August 26th, 2007 at 11:55 amBush wants Maliki out before all the contracts are gone ????
August 26th, 2007 at 11:56 am16 oldtree
August 26th, 2007 at 11:59 amWell said…
That doesn’t explain why GWB’s opinion of Maliki is relevant.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:01 pmThe U.S. has been pushing for democracy in the Middle East and now they’re realizing that democracy can mean you don’t like who gets elected.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:02 pmOil is not the only plum on Bush’s tree. Half a trillion dollars has been transferred from US Taxpayers to PRIVATE CONTRACTORS. The fraud and abuse has been staggering….the oversite ineffectual.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:03 pmI just finished reading “The Great Iraqi Swindle” from Rolling Stone Magazine online. I can now see that one of Bush’s missions in Iraq is definately Accomplished. People from all political persuasions should be Outraged .
It’s like Hezbollah in Lebanon.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:03 pmMistress Z~
I thought youse was sleepin in?
Comment by RUCerious — August 26, 2007 @ 11:36 am
Sleeping until 8 is sleeping in. :)
August 26th, 2007 at 12:03 pmthe only reason dubya brought up vietnam was to stir up those vietvets who are still pissed off about “losing” that war…
August 26th, 2007 at 12:09 pmhoping to get their sympathy and provoke more divisiveness…
…
Webb is a conservative Republican.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:11 pmTP still eating up post’s….Guess your not fixing the problem…
August 26th, 2007 at 12:29 pmTP still eating up post’s….Guess your not fixing the problem…
Comment by Sharon — August 26, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
It looks like they cranked the filters up to 11 in order to cut down on trolls, which meant that almost nothing can get through.
Not such a great solution, TP.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:36 pmI am not able to post ANY on-topic comments, on ANY THREAD!!
F*CK TP.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmI am not able to post ANY on-topic comments, on ANY THREAD!!
August 26th, 2007 at 12:51 pmComment by Rose Tyler
Our mission in Vietnam was never great in its intentions only to become “flawed” later. It was always the desire to control that part of the world—and the wishes of the natives be damned. If any Vietnamese ever asked for our help, they were very few and irrelevant. Pentagon Intelligence said we must not allow the elections reuniting the country (which we had agreed) in 1956 because it was obvious Ho Chi Minh would win at least 80% of the vote. Intelligence also said the Domino Theory was not true. There are psycholgical defense mechanisms at work here preventing us from seeing the reasons for the killing of over three million people, including 58,000 of our own.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThe Vietnamese were fighting a war against colonialism. First against the French and then the Americans.
American intervention is South East Asia was flawed from the beginning, this talk about how the “implementation became flawed later” is, in itself, a rewrite of history and a distortion.
If Americans cannot get past the “implementation became flawed” mind set, more Vietnams, and Iraqs are likely to happen.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:11 pmRight on Gregor. I hate it when the MSM says our Iraqi intelligence “was flawed”. It achieved exactly what it was meant to achieve. That is called a “success”.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:17 pmIf any Vietnamese ever asked for our help, they were very few and irrelevant.
Actually one relevant Vietnamese DID ask for our help…a young HO Chi Minh. He asked for our help in preventing the French from reoccupying “French Indochina” after Ho and other patriots had fought the Japanese and forced them out during world war II. The United States, of course, sided with France and dismissed Ho Chi Minh. The rest, as they say, is History.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pmThat’s right, Badg, Ho admired the US, their revolution, and their fighting against the imperialist Japanese in IndoChina. He expected the Vietnamese would be allowed to run their country at the end of WWII—not have it given back to the French.
VP Nixon in 1954 advocated going nuclear against the Vietnamese when they defeated the French. Fortunately, he was overruled by Eisenhower. I believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:50 pmAmanda, shouldn’t that lead paragraph read that “Iraq BEARS similarity”, not “bares”?
August 26th, 2007 at 2:34 pmI believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971.
Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
And mr. p went uclear again last night on the Baird thread. He is reaching critical mass on a nightly basis now and needs SERIOUS help for his paranoiac meth rants. I feel sorry for all of N. Virginia with him residing there.
August 26th, 2007 at 2:54 pmLyndon Johnson gave the war lobby the escalation they pressed for.
August 26th, 2007 at 3:00 pmJohn Kennedy had plans to leave Vietnam. Couldn’t have that, could we?
Everyone is correct with this corollary.
Bush is feeding the pigs at Iraq’s expense. Who cares if the stuff gets built right?
It’s cheaper to build according to whatever is cheaper - materials, labor, whatever.
All the contractors are smiling, everyone is happy as long as it continues.
Defeat is loss of contracts, loss of oil deals.
Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It’s just another lie, more smoke, mirrors.
August 26th, 2007 at 3:16 pmThere are psycholgical defense mechanisms at work here preventing us from seeing the reasons for the killing of over three million people, including 58,000 of our own.
Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
… that, and so much more…
great statement…
August 26th, 2007 at 3:31 pmi have no doubt it is true, and has been for decades…
this is one huge reason why the http://www. is so valuable…
it’s harder that ever to hide the facts, the truth…
thankfully…
.
“I don’t want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster.” Franklin Roosevelt
August 26th, 2007 at 3:34 pm20 years later…
More questions were raised when a consortium of which Brown & Root was a part won a $380 million contract to build airports, bases, hospitals and other facilities for the U.S. Navy in South Vietnam. By 1967, the General Accounting Office had faulted the “Vietnam builders” — as they were known — for massive accounting lapses and allowing thefts of materials.
40 years later…
The Bush administration’s lack of interest in recovering stolen funds is one of the great scandals of the war. The White House has failed to litigate a single case against a contractor under the False Claims Act and has not sued anybody for breach of contract
#
Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It’s just another lie, more smoke, mirrors.
Comment by Anon1 — August 26, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
I was there and saw firsthand what was going on and came home and joined VVAW and helped to end it.
Dubya and Darth, on the other hand, were too busy playing rich white boyz back here to be bothered by it, so they can’t remember too much (Wait …. maybe it was a drug induced memory loss for Dubya.)
August 26th, 2007 at 3:44 pmBush has writers who compose his speeches - but the boy-king tells them what to say — they merely dumb it down to the fifth-grade reading level for his benefit.
August 26th, 2007 at 7:34 pm(Notice how he often says, “in other words” as if he has to make it even dumber for the public to grasp.)
They should be embarrassed to admit they write his speeches - any one with a moral compass would have exited the first time he or she was asked to re-write history, or lie in a speech.
Grandson of Nazi Resigns From Serving Grandson of Nazi : So Karl Rove, the grandson of the man who helped build the Birkenau Death Camp and helped run the Nazi party, Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg and Reich-Statthalter (Nazi State Party Chairman for his region), is to quit the White House after faithfully serving the grandson of the man who helped finance the Nazi Party and facilitated Hitler’s rise to power. About time too, I’d say. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ archives/ cat_politicselectionscorruption.html#068985
August 26th, 2007 at 7:50 pmWebb is a conservative Republican.
Comment by Brassmask — August 26, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Which is, of course, why he ran against and defeated Sentaor George Allen, whom many neoCON pundits were hoping would run for president in 2008, eh? While it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it.
August 26th, 2007 at 10:19 pmLet me get this straight…
A guy who got into the ANG (and later deserted) to avoid being drafted and going to Vietnam, is now telling us that “we” (he really means “everyone but Dick, Karl, Dan Quayle, and I”) should have stayed there longer? Whatta joke!
Too bad the results (3600+ dead Americans, maybe a million dead Iraqis) are no laughing matter. Chimpy will be the first retired US Prez who cannot leave American soil for fear of being arrested for war crimes.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:13 amWhile it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it.
Comment by Lora — August 26, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
I heard earlier tonight that VA’s other Republican senator, John Warner, is threatening to back Dem legislation calling for time lines for withdrawal from Iraq. The difference between Warner and most other Repugs? He actually served in a war.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:16 amBUSH SHOULD BE WINDING THIS WAR DOWN NOT LEAVING IT TO THE NEXT PRESIDENT
Comment by Tobey Tall — August 26, 2007 @ 11:47 am
On the contrary, Chimpy has threatened to entangle us so far in Iraq that the next two presidents will not be able to get us out. How to do it? Easy….bomb Iran, anyone?
–continued war in the region for the foreseeable future…
–focus off our failures in Iraq…
–an end to the calls for withdrawal from Iraq…
–an excuse to rally everyone around the flag again, and call all them LIBERALS “traitors” again…
–continued benefits to the contractors…
–continued high prices in the crude oil markets…
–an excuse to “take out” Iran’s nuke program…
Choose your reason. I’m sure Chimpy & Co. have plenty more where those came from.
August 27th, 2007 at 1:25 am>Why is the U.S. opinion regarding Maliki relevant?
Why indeed. This is the jist of the question I keep asking the trolls around here that I NEVER get an answer to.
Iraqi freedom means the freedom to pick leaders we dont like.
Iraqi freedom means the freedom to have their government adopt policies we dont like…like becoming an islamic theocracy
Iraq freedom means the freedom to support groups we dont like, like Hezbollah and Hamas.
You’ll never get a single troll to admit any of this, though…
August 27th, 2007 at 8:05 amDo you think it is it time for the U.S. troops to leave Iraq? a) Yes, immediately b) Yes, by end of 2007 c) no, job not done
August 27th, 2007 at 3:17 pmVote at http://www.pollicious.com
I think you have to blame the neo con artists behind Bush for this and now the war with Iran that they’re clearly priming us for. Bush is just a puppet, as evidenced by his painfully awkward speeches. He definately doesn’t come up with this stuff on his own.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pm