Comments on: Webb: Unlike Vietnam, Iraq War’s ‘Strategic Objective’ Was Unrelated To Reason For Invasion http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:35:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: null http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4082510 null Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:15:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4082510 I think you have to blame the neo con artists behind Bush for this and now the war with Iran that they're clearly priming us for. Bush is just a puppet, as evidenced by his painfully awkward speeches. He definately doesn't come up with this stuff on his own. I think you have to blame the neo con artists behind Bush for this and now the war with Iran that they’re clearly priming us for. Bush is just a puppet, as evidenced by his painfully awkward speeches. He definately doesn’t come up with this stuff on his own.

]]> By: JengoPop http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4039753 JengoPop Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:17:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4039753 Do you think it is it time for the U.S. troops to leave Iraq? a) Yes, immediately b) Yes, by end of 2007 c) no, job not done Vote at http://www.pollicious.com Do you think it is it time for the U.S. troops to leave Iraq? a) Yes, immediately b) Yes, by end of 2007 c) no, job not done
Vote at http://www.pollicious.com

]]> By: Null and aVoid Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4038814 Null and aVoid Chocolate Jesus Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:05:34 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038814 >Why is the U.S. opinion regarding Maliki relevant? Why indeed. This is the jist of the question I keep asking the trolls around here that I NEVER get an answer to. Iraqi freedom means the freedom to pick leaders we dont like. Iraqi freedom means the freedom to have their government adopt policies we dont like...like becoming an islamic theocracy Iraq freedom means the freedom to support groups we dont like, like Hezbollah and Hamas. You'll never get a single troll to admit any of this, though... >Why is the U.S. opinion regarding Maliki relevant?

Why indeed. This is the jist of the question I keep asking the trolls around here that I NEVER get an answer to.

Iraqi freedom means the freedom to pick leaders we dont like.

Iraqi freedom means the freedom to have their government adopt policies we dont like…like becoming an islamic theocracy

Iraq freedom means the freedom to support groups we dont like, like Hezbollah and Hamas.

You’ll never get a single troll to admit any of this, though…

]]> By: blogbob http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4038748 blogbob Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:25:07 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038748 BUSH SHOULD BE WINDING THIS WAR DOWN NOT LEAVING IT TO THE NEXT PRESIDENT Comment by Tobey Tall — August 26, 2007 @ 11:47 am On the contrary, Chimpy has threatened to entangle us so far in Iraq that the next two presidents will not be able to get us out. How to do it? Easy....bomb Iran, anyone? --continued war in the region for the foreseeable future... --focus off our failures in Iraq... --an end to the calls for withdrawal from Iraq... --an excuse to rally everyone around the flag again, and call all them LIBERALS "traitors" again... --continued benefits to the contractors... --continued high prices in the crude oil markets... --an excuse to "take out" Iran's nuke program... Choose your reason. I'm sure Chimpy & Co. have plenty more where those came from. BUSH SHOULD BE WINDING THIS WAR DOWN NOT LEAVING IT TO THE NEXT PRESIDENT

Comment by Tobey Tall — August 26, 2007 @ 11:47 am

On the contrary, Chimpy has threatened to entangle us so far in Iraq that the next two presidents will not be able to get us out. How to do it? Easy….bomb Iran, anyone?

–continued war in the region for the foreseeable future…

–focus off our failures in Iraq…

–an end to the calls for withdrawal from Iraq…

–an excuse to rally everyone around the flag again, and call all them LIBERALS “traitors” again…

–continued benefits to the contractors…

–continued high prices in the crude oil markets…

–an excuse to “take out” Iran’s nuke program…

Choose your reason. I’m sure Chimpy & Co. have plenty more where those came from.

]]> By: blogbob http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4038730 blogbob Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:16:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038730 While it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it. Comment by Lora — August 26, 2007 @ 10:19 pm I heard earlier tonight that VA's other Republican senator, John Warner, is threatening to back Dem legislation calling for time lines for withdrawal from Iraq. The difference between Warner and most other Repugs? He actually served in a war. While it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it.

Comment by Lora — August 26, 2007 @ 10:19 pm

I heard earlier tonight that VA’s other Republican senator, John Warner, is threatening to back Dem legislation calling for time lines for withdrawal from Iraq. The difference between Warner and most other Repugs? He actually served in a war.

]]> By: blogbob http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4038722 blogbob Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:13:57 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038722 Let me get this straight... A guy who got into the ANG (and later deserted) to avoid being drafted and going to Vietnam, is now telling us that "we" (he really means "everyone but Dick, Karl, Dan Quayle, and I") should have stayed there longer? Whatta joke! Too bad the results (3600+ dead Americans, maybe a million dead Iraqis) are no laughing matter. Chimpy will be the first retired US Prez who cannot leave American soil for fear of being arrested for war crimes. Let me get this straight…

A guy who got into the ANG (and later deserted) to avoid being drafted and going to Vietnam, is now telling us that “we” (he really means “everyone but Dick, Karl, Dan Quayle, and I”) should have stayed there longer? Whatta joke!

Too bad the results (3600+ dead Americans, maybe a million dead Iraqis) are no laughing matter. Chimpy will be the first retired US Prez who cannot leave American soil for fear of being arrested for war crimes.

]]> By: Lora http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-2/#comment-4038458 Lora Mon, 27 Aug 2007 02:19:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038458 Webb is a conservative Republican. Comment by Brassmask — August 26, 2007 @ 12:11 pm Which is, of course, why he ran against and defeated Sentaor George Allen, whom many neoCON pundits were hoping would run for president in 2008, eh? While it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it. Webb is a conservative Republican.
Comment by Brassmask — August 26, 2007 @ 12:11 pm

Which is, of course, why he ran against and defeated Sentaor George Allen, whom many neoCON pundits were hoping would run for president in 2008, eh? While it is true that Webb served under Reagan and has conservative leanings, it is also true that the currently G(reedy)O(ily)P(erverts) is so whacky and extremist that level-headed conservatives have been abandoning it.

]]> By: Thetruth http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4038274 Thetruth Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:50:42 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038274 Grandson of Nazi Resigns From Serving Grandson of Nazi : So Karl Rove, the grandson of the man who helped build the Birkenau Death Camp and helped run the Nazi party, Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg and Reich-Statthalter (Nazi State Party Chairman for his region), is to quit the White House after faithfully serving the grandson of the man who helped finance the Nazi Party and facilitated Hitler's rise to power. About time too, I'd say. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_politicselectionscorruption.html#068985 Grandson of Nazi Resigns From Serving Grandson of Nazi : So Karl Rove, the grandson of the man who helped build the Birkenau Death Camp and helped run the Nazi party, Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg and Reich-Statthalter (Nazi State Party Chairman for his region), is to quit the White House after faithfully serving the grandson of the man who helped finance the Nazi Party and facilitated Hitler’s rise to power. About time too, I’d say. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_politicselectionscorruption.html#068985

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4038244 Marie Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:34:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4038244 Bush has writers who compose his speeches - but the boy-king tells them what to say -- they merely dumb it down to the fifth-grade reading level for his benefit. (Notice how he often says, "in other words" as if he has to make it even dumber for the public to grasp.) They should be embarrassed to admit they write his speeches - any one with a moral compass would have exited the first time he or she was asked to re-write history, or lie in a speech. Bush has writers who compose his speeches – but the boy-king tells them what to say — they merely dumb it down to the fifth-grade reading level for his benefit.
(Notice how he often says, “in other words” as if he has to make it even dumber for the public to grasp.)
They should be embarrassed to admit they write his speeches – any one with a moral compass would have exited the first time he or she was asked to re-write history, or lie in a speech.

]]> By: upside00 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037916 upside00 Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:44:40 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037916 <em># Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It’s just another lie, more smoke, mirrors. Comment by Anon1 — August 26, 2007 @ 3:16 pm</em> I was there and saw firsthand what was going on and came home and joined VVAW and helped to end it. Dubya and Darth, on the other hand, were too busy playing rich white boyz back here to be bothered by it, so they can't remember too much (Wait .... maybe it was a drug induced memory loss for Dubya.) #

Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It’s just another lie, more smoke, mirrors.

Comment by Anon1 — August 26, 2007 @ 3:16 pm

I was there and saw firsthand what was going on and came home and joined VVAW and helped to end it.

Dubya and Darth, on the other hand, were too busy playing rich white boyz back here to be bothered by it, so they can’t remember too much (Wait …. maybe it was a drug induced memory loss for Dubya.)

]]> By: Badger http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037902 Badger Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:34:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037902 "I don't want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster." Franklin Roosevelt 20 years later... More questions were raised when a consortium of which Brown & Root was a part won a $380 million contract to build airports, bases, hospitals and other facilities for the U.S. Navy in South Vietnam. By 1967, the General Accounting Office had faulted the "Vietnam builders" -- as they were known -- for massive accounting lapses and allowing thefts of materials. 40 years later... The Bush administration's lack of interest in recovering stolen funds is one of the great scandals of the war. The White House has failed to litigate a single case against a contractor under the False Claims Act and has not sued anybody for breach of contract “I don’t want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster.” Franklin Roosevelt
20 years later…
More questions were raised when a consortium of which Brown & Root was a part won a $380 million contract to build airports, bases, hospitals and other facilities for the U.S. Navy in South Vietnam. By 1967, the General Accounting Office had faulted the “Vietnam builders” — as they were known — for massive accounting lapses and allowing thefts of materials.
40 years later…
The Bush administration’s lack of interest in recovering stolen funds is one of the great scandals of the war. The White House has failed to litigate a single case against a contractor under the False Claims Act and has not sued anybody for breach of contract

]]> By: katy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037892 katy Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:31:29 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037892 <em>There are psycholgical defense mechanisms at work here preventing us from seeing the reasons for the killing of over three million people, including 58,000 of our own. Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 12:55 pm</em> ... that, and so much more... great statement... i have no doubt it is true, and has been for decades... this is one huge reason why the www. is so valuable... it's harder that ever to hide the facts, the truth... thankfully... . There are psycholgical defense mechanisms at work here preventing us from seeing the reasons for the killing of over three million people, including 58,000 of our own.
Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 12:55 pm

… that, and so much more…

great statement…
i have no doubt it is true, and has been for decades…
this is one huge reason why the www. is so valuable…
it’s harder that ever to hide the facts, the truth…
thankfully…
.

]]> By: Anon1 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037871 Anon1 Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:16:12 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037871 Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It's just another lie, more smoke, mirrors. Bush has NO understading of history, vietnam, or the grave situation in Iraq. That speech was written for him. It’s just another lie, more smoke, mirrors.

]]> By: batbird http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037847 batbird Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:00:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037847 Lyndon Johnson gave the war lobby the escalation they pressed for. John Kennedy had plans to leave Vietnam. Couldn't have <em>that</em>, could we? Everyone is correct with this corollary. Bush is feeding the pigs at Iraq's expense. Who cares if the stuff gets built right? It's cheaper to build according to whatever is cheaper - materials, labor, whatever. All the contractors are smiling, everyone is happy as long as it continues. Defeat is loss of contracts, loss of oil deals. Lyndon Johnson gave the war lobby the escalation they pressed for.
John Kennedy had plans to leave Vietnam. Couldn’t have that, could we?
Everyone is correct with this corollary.
Bush is feeding the pigs at Iraq’s expense. Who cares if the stuff gets built right?
It’s cheaper to build according to whatever is cheaper – materials, labor, whatever.
All the contractors are smiling, everyone is happy as long as it continues.
Defeat is loss of contracts, loss of oil deals.

]]> By: upside00 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037835 upside00 Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:54:52 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037835 <em>I believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971. Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 1:50 pm</em> And mr. p went uclear again last night on the Baird thread. He is reaching critical mass on a nightly basis now and needs SERIOUS help for his paranoiac meth rants. I feel sorry for all of N. Virginia with him residing there. I believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971.

Comment by Keith — August 26, 2007 @ 1:50 pm

And mr. p went uclear again last night on the Baird thread. He is reaching critical mass on a nightly basis now and needs SERIOUS help for his paranoiac meth rants. I feel sorry for all of N. Virginia with him residing there.

]]> By: JosephW http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037811 JosephW Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:34:31 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037811 Amanda, shouldn't that lead paragraph read that "Iraq BEARS similarity", not "bares"? Amanda, shouldn’t that lead paragraph read that “Iraq BEARS similarity”, not “bares”?

]]> By: Keith http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037776 Keith Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:50:11 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037776 That's right, Badg, Ho admired the US, their revolution, and their fighting against the imperialist Japanese in IndoChina. He expected the Vietnamese would be allowed to run their country at the end of WWII---not have it given back to the French. VP Nixon in 1954 advocated going nuclear against the Vietnamese when they defeated the French. Fortunately, he was overruled by Eisenhower. I believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971. That’s right, Badg, Ho admired the US, their revolution, and their fighting against the imperialist Japanese in IndoChina. He expected the Vietnamese would be allowed to run their country at the end of WWII—not have it given back to the French.

VP Nixon in 1954 advocated going nuclear against the Vietnamese when they defeated the French. Fortunately, he was overruled by Eisenhower. I believe Curtis LeMay of the Air Force wanted to go nuclear in about 1971.

]]> By: Badger http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037757 Badger Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:28:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037757 If any Vietnamese ever asked for our help, they were very few and irrelevant. Actually one relevant Vietnamese DID ask for our help...a young HO Chi Minh. He asked for our help in preventing the French from reoccupying "French Indochina" after Ho and other patriots had fought the Japanese and forced them out during world war II. The United States, of course, sided with France and dismissed Ho Chi Minh. The rest, as they say, is History. If any Vietnamese ever asked for our help, they were very few and irrelevant.

Actually one relevant Vietnamese DID ask for our help…a young HO Chi Minh. He asked for our help in preventing the French from reoccupying “French Indochina” after Ho and other patriots had fought the Japanese and forced them out during world war II. The United States, of course, sided with France and dismissed Ho Chi Minh. The rest, as they say, is History.

]]> By: Keith http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037740 Keith Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:17:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037740 Right on Gregor. I hate it when the MSM says our Iraqi intelligence "was flawed". It achieved exactly what it was meant to achieve. That is called a "success". Right on Gregor. I hate it when the MSM says our Iraqi intelligence “was flawed”. It achieved exactly what it was meant to achieve. That is called a “success”.

]]> By: Gregor Samsa http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-4037732 Gregor Samsa Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:11:56 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/08/26/webb-vietnam/#comment-4037732 The Vietnamese were fighting a war against colonialism. First against the French and then the Americans. American intervention is South East Asia was flawed from the beginning, this talk about how the "implementation became flawed later" is, in itself, a rewrite of history and a distortion. If Americans cannot get past the "implementation became flawed" mind set, more Vietnams, and Iraqs are likely to happen. The Vietnamese were fighting a war against colonialism. First against the French and then the Americans.

American intervention is South East Asia was flawed from the beginning, this talk about how the “implementation became flawed later” is, in itself, a rewrite of history and a distortion.

If Americans cannot get past the “implementation became flawed” mind set, more Vietnams, and Iraqs are likely to happen.

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