Baird Turns To Conservative Media To Push New, Pro-Escalation Iraq Position
Baird Turns To Conservative Media To Push New, Pro-Escalation Iraq Position
Nearly two weeks ago, Rep. Brian Baird (D-WA), who voted against the initial invasion of Iraq, returned from a two-day trip to the war-torn country, proclaiming that “we’re making real progress” in Iraq and that the escalation should be extended “at least into early next year.” Baird expanded upon his new position in an op-ed for the Seattle Times.
As Atrios has noted, until he started supporting Bush’s escalation, Baird had chosen to stay out of the Iraq debate’s media spotlight. But now that he’s calling for “six to eight more” months of escalation, there doesn’t appear to be a camera or microphone that Baird will refuse to speak to.
Baird has engaged in a media blitz, giving at least five mainstream media interviews to promote his pro-war line, including two on national television:
“I have come to believe that calls for premature withdrawal may make it more difficult for Iraqis to solve their problems.” [The Columbian, 8/17/07]
“I think we’re making real progress.” [The Olympian, 8/17/07]
“There’s a long way to go but the progress is real.” [Seattle Times, 8/20/07]
Six to eight more months can make a “very important difference in the ability of the Iraqi government to resolve some of its difficulties.” [All Things Considered, 8/21/07]
“I think six more months of American troops can help stabilize and secure the situation.” [CNN's The Situation Room, 8/24/07]
Pro-war pundits and politicians quickly latched onto his comments. Baird reciprocated by granting interviews to three explicitly conservative outlets, helping to promote their agenda for an open-ended commitment in Iraq:
“A precipitous withdrawal at this point would probably be at least as big of a mistake as the initial invasion itself was.” [The Lars Larson Show, 8/21/07]
“My own belief is that we are making progress and that Ambassador Crocker, General Petraeus and the troops on the ground need time and breathing space.” [MSNBC's Tucker, 8/21/07]
“A six-month extension of this current troop strength is worth the risk, even though I know it’s uncertain and I know we will lose more good lives and more money.” [National Review Online, 8/25/07]
While the media has trumpeted Baird’s pro-war position, the war criticisms offered by Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) after she returned from Iraq — and those criticisms of members of the 82nd Airborne — have received comparably far less attention.
UPDATE: Jane Hamsher has more.
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172 Responses to “Baird Turns To Conservative Media To Push New, Pro-Escalation Iraq Position”
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Hope Baird's resume is polished up. He'll be looking for work in Nov 08.
August 27th, 2007 at 2:59 pmDid this guy fall and hit his head?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:02 pmWould you buy a used war from this man??
What a smug ass-faced smile that guy has!
Paying attention, Washington voters?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:03 pmMr. Baird, please contact Joe Liebermann for advice on how to become an independant.
You strayed from the democrat reservation and have become marked; your tenure as a dem has begun its final countdown, courtesy of the the frantically hysterical New Lib Base.
Good luck.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI support Baird's right to state his views on the subject of Iraq, even though they are wrong. Let him suffer the consequences at the next election. I don't support the media's intense focus on only Baird's viewpoint, neglecting the viewpoints of others. Even now, our media is complicit in the continuing debacle that is Iraq.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:04 pmCaption Contest:
"I went to Iraq and all I got was this lousy rug."
August 27th, 2007 at 3:05 pmBeing from Washington, he comes from a more conservative district in the south west corner of the state and is obviously pandering for conservative votes with his B.S. assessment.
He is a typical political operator who is simply lying for perceived personal advantage. In short, he is the worst kind of political scum who puts himself over truth and democracy. Wow he takes a 2 day guided tour of the Green Zone and gets what Bush Co. wants him to know and he's now a believer! What a stupid ass.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:07 pmSounds like what a GOPr would say. This is one of those make-believe DEMs I was talking about.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:07 pmWhat a smug ass-faced smile that guy has!
Well there ya go, he didnt toe the line and so gains the adolescent ire of the libs.
"Lookit lookit...he has a slightly receding hairline and what about that TIE?!"
Grow up, if Baird were howling that the war was lost you would be showering glowing accolades about his strong jaw and good-natured smile.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:08 pm..."premature withdrawal" ...
yea, i hate when that happens...
August 27th, 2007 at 3:08 pm...
He should join the Republican Party.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:09 pmHe should join the Republican Party.
I agree.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:11 pmDid he fall asleep near a giant green pod at some point in the recent past?
-GSD
August 27th, 2007 at 3:11 pmHe should join the Republican Party.
Comment by Administrator1 — August 27, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Assuming there is one left to join in 09.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pmok- the is a member of the house of representatives- correct? If that is so,where is Pelosi? The fool should be thrown out of the party. He should be notified that he is no longer welcome in and party caucus. He should be informed that he will no longer recieve a single cent of financial support as well.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pmToo Harsh? I don't think so.
"Comment by Cluster Bomb:Well there ya go, he didnt toe the line and so gains the adolescent ire of the libs. "
Unlike the treatment John Warner got from the wacko right?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pmAnother Pod person. Face it, the escalation is going to go on. September, then March then September again.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pmWell there ya go, he didnt toe the line and so gains the adolescent ire of the libs.
Yah and now Lieberman has gained the usual Jewish slurs.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:13 pmHey ThinkProgress,
You have a typo in this article. See the political designation for Baird. It should read:
Rep. Brian Baird (Fox News-WA)
• Detox from Fox: Starve The Beast
August 27th, 2007 at 3:15 pmIf that is so,where is Pelosi? The fool should be thrown out of the party. He should be notified that he is no longer welcome in and party caucus.
Yes, because you no longer want pols who make up their own minds. Nope, better to get orders from Politburo Chairman Pelosi on what to think.
But I agree also, demand that he withdraw from the DFL and become GOP. Please call your reps today and see it gets done soon.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pmUnlike the treatment John Warner got from the wacko right?
Comment by Administrator1 — August 27, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
But But ...... that's DIFFERENT!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHe was right before he was wrong.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pmDems never win.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:17 pmSwifty!!!!!!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pmThis clownish posting by Toilet Paper is burdensome evidence that progressives are completely hallucinating and willfully oblivious to reality. There is no "conservative" media; that's just a forgery invented by progressives to insultingly cover-up how the MSM skews their way by about 9-to-1 as proven in many surveys and studies! Baird's case is despairing as it 100% proves how progressive fanatics will mistreat you if you DARE speak out against their party line ideology. In this fashion, progs and libs misbehave like Nazis and other totalitarians by ostracizing their own members for dissent. There is no media "blitz" covering Baird's comments as the five, pitiful papers mentioned by TP hardly qualify as widespread coverage, and Tucker Carlson doesn't count as a Repub because he's too limp-wristed and more closely resembles a lib girlie man. The reason the rogue soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division arent' given more exposure (yet being in the NYT is pretty high-profile exposure) is because ONLY SEVEN rogues opposed the surge.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pmYou and Bush getting tired of each other?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pmComment by Swifty the Boat — August 27, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
Got your Cheeto stash close by mr. p? How about that Mountain Dew?
Gonna be a long evening, I do believe!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmComment by Cluster Bomb: But I agree also, demand that he withdraw from the DFL and become GOP. Please call your reps today and see it gets done soon.
I don't blame you for wanting us to hurry. The Republicans are dropping like flies.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmprogressive fanatics will mistreat you if you DARE speak out against their party line ideology
----------
Exactly right!!!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmSwifty!!!
laptop juggling trooll...
August 27th, 2007 at 3:20 pmGonna be a long evening, I do believe!
Comment by upside00 — August 27, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
------
Today's the first day of RNC Training (Fall semester), I'll be back at around 7 or 8.
Swifty!!!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:20 pm#7-
Agreed. I have written to Baird on this subject and he claims that he must listen to the will of his voters which, as you point out, and as where I live, is predominantly conservative. People who have written in to the Seattle Times have been decidedly less sanguine about Baird. One letter writer correctly notes in today's Times that "He [Baird] was treated to a feel-good tour and came back with a feel-good story." One wonders if Baird would feel so upbeat if his children were old enough to be in Iraq and risking coming back from that slaughterhouse maimed and crippled for no justifiable reason whatsoever. One suspects that he would be whistling a different tune than the one that he is currently playing in front of the media.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pmpitiful papers mentioned by TP hardly qualify as widespread coverage,
100000000% True.
Swifty
August 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pmYou've got our attention...go on...you were saying...?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pmThis clownish posting by Toilet Paper is burdensome evidence that progressives are completely hallucinating and willfully oblivious to reality. There is no “conservative†media; that’s just a forgery invented by progressives to insultingly cover-up how the MSM skews their way by about 9-to-1 as proven in many surveys and studies! Baird’s case is despairing as it 100% proves how progressive fanatics will mistreat you if you DARE speak out against their party line ideology. In this fashion, progs and libs misbehave like Nazis and other totalitarians by ostracizing their own members for dissent. There is no media “blitz†covering Baird’s comments as the five, pitiful papers mentioned by TP hardly qualify as widespread coverage, and Tucker Carlson doesn’t count as a Repub because he’s too limp-wristed and more closely resembles a lib girlie man. The reason the rogue soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division arent’ given more exposure (yet being in the NYT is pretty high-profile exposure) is because ONLY SEVEN rogues opposed the surge.
Comment by Bairdshouldgointowitnessprotectinprogram — August 27, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
---------
Agreed!!!
Swifty!!!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pmSome clown attacking "rogue soldiers" who are on the ground and facing death everyday instead of attacking the rear echelon mofo's who arrange congressional trips from their air-conditioned rooms inside of Saddams' Palaces.
Funny stuff.
-GSD
August 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pmToday’s the first day of RNC Training (Fall semester), I’ll be back at around 7 or 8.
Swifty!!!
Comment by Swifty the Boat — August 27, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Take good notes, with the rover leaving, things will get rough .... no more group gope talking point meetings led by Karl and his main fluffer, Jeff Gannon.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmGSD
Comment by GSD — August 27, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
-------
Hello, Mr. Run-on sentence!!!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmSwifty! Clean up on aisle 12!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmBaird is not from a conservative district, but he is from a district that has a mix that makes it very different from Portland, which is right across the river. According to a local newspaper article, the district went to Bush in 2000 and 2004, but not by a wide margin. Baird is scheduled to do a town meeting tonight, I believe, and will get an earful from local activists.
I believe that this morning's article said Baird had actually been in Iraq for something like 13 days, not two, over the last few months.
The conservative press, of course, is using Baird to make it sound as if hordes of Democrats were coming back from their visits to Iraq supporting "the surge", but he is the only one actually doing so.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:24 pmComment by Swifty the Boat
How's the therapy coming along?
Try the meds, they're a bridge toward wellness, not to be relied upon for extended periods of time.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:26 pmIronically, one of the chief architects of the war [Vietnam] did not participate in the public relations blitz. Robert McNamara already had concluded that the U.S. public simply would not tolerate a prolonged war.-Jorge Mariscal
BTW, Where is sliderule Wolfowitz?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:26 pmNothing a little NSA-sponsored blackmail can't fix, right Bush-boi?!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:27 pmClearly, this idiot was bribed, bought off by a pro-war propaganda "think tank."
Either that or he knew he could get a lot of traditional media attention by regurgitating right wing talking points.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pm"Did this guy fall and hit his head?
Comment by blogenfreude"
No, but I expect that he has a cushy job lined up for himself after he is kicked out of office by the Washington voters. I heard him on Air America this morning and Carl Wilson, the host, pretty much gave him a free pass. The closest he came to challenging Baird was when he said that many people think the reason for the drop in violence in the areas he quoted was more due to ethnic cleansing than anything else. Most places where the violence has dropped have lost thousands of Iraqi's who have fled the cities.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pmIt is nice to see the elitist Bush trolls making fun of little weak punctuation.
Why are the elitist Bush fluffers against average Americans?
-GSD
August 27th, 2007 at 3:30 pmBalance in the media is important. Barry Baird's position will help create diversity in a homogeneous media culture that is all positioned to the left. It's not healthy to have the left dominating the scene.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:30 pmAnyone who strays from the liberal claim that Iraq is already lost will be publicly skewered..........regardless of ideology.........it's a lost-cause damnit.......don't argue with us. Aren't we glad libs weren't around with Washington in Valley Forge? They would have mocked him relentlessly.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pmBaird announced that there is a reason of hope in Iraq, and that the surge should have a chance to work, defecting from the Democrats on this issue. Baird also disagree's with the Democratic leadership in both the house and the Senate.
As of August 24,2007, he is the only Democrat to break sides with the Democrats on Iraq, and take President George W. Bush's side.
Baird announced this after he returned from a trip to Iraq, saying there has been real progress militarily.
wikipedia
August 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pm"Dear MoveOn member,
Please note that the town hall meeting with Rep. Baird is on Monday, August 27th. All the information below is correct, except we accidentally indicated that Monday was the 28th. Monday is in fact the 27th of August and is the day of the town hall meeting. Here are the details again:
What: Town Hall meeting with Rep. Baird
August 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pmWhere: Fort Vancouver High School Auditorium
5700 E. 18th St., Vancouver, WA
When: 7:00 pm on Monday, August 27th"
Balance in the media is important. Barry Baird’s position will help create diversity in a homogeneous media culture that is all positioned to the left. It’s not healthy to have the left dominating the scene.
Comment by Tryon — August 27, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
Gosh darn, it's that ol' librul media again.
It's the myth that never dies.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pmAren't we glad Bush wasn't around in WWII because after Pearl Harbor he would have attacked Iceland and spent 5 years trying to unsuccessfully conquer and pacify it.
-GSD
August 27th, 2007 at 3:37 pmHe got a big pay day for that support and lie. The White House must be working overtime to spread the Taxpayers money around for elected officials to lie. Now we see with our own eyes what's happening yet we're to believe these suck ups. Will the White House or Media let the American people know the news about the Iran President's visit to Iraq at the request of PM Maliki. Yes history in the making it will be the first time ever that an Iran President visited a friend name PM Maliki. So all the money and lies in the world wont change the fact that the US will be kicked out of Iraq so all this talk doesn't mean anything.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pmComment by gummitch — August 27, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Sir, I'm sorry but it is not a myth.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pmI'm a Republican who doesn't think Hitler was all that bad.
At least you're an honest Republican.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pmActually, it was the liberals fighting the War. Those mocking Washington were the Conservative Tories loyal to King George. Ironic isn't it?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pmIt’s not healthy to have the left dominating the scene.
Comment by Tryon — August 27, 2007
I get so tired of hearing this debunked myth.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pmanyone from WA want to weigh in on what the bushwa is blackmailing him for? this is pretty funny
August 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pmWhy do these Rep posters comment on the reaction of liberals to Baird while ignoring the reaction of the cons to Warner? Neither party enjoys it when one of their own so publicly goes against the party line. And both parties jump up & down and yuk it up when someone does defect. But get real, it happens to both sides & the reaction is the same. So get over yourself.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pmComment by GSD — August 27, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Perfect retort, GSD! You've got it nailed right there.
Oh, and I like the indirect touch. He forgets that it is simply for what progressives stand for, you know - personal liberties and such, that permits this discourse where it becomes necessary to engage with his ilk.
Nothing personal, but I find it offensive that the GOPrs have been using the troops for political gain, and successfully I might add, and yet one of their chosen would have the scheming gall to come here and vomit his unsung proboscis denigrating our TROOPS as "rogues".
You are to be applauded!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pmWhat I find fascinating, about neocons, is their continual ranting that anyone with a differing opinion is "radically left". Have any of them bothered with examining what being "radially left" entails?
Radically left means, in simple terms, Marxism (not to be confused with communism) or socialism. I have yet to see a single, so called, "lefty" call for either of these solutions to the problems of governance.
Yet, the neocons keep on with their campaign. Does anyone, outside the brain dead 20+%, fall for this crap? Does the MODERATE MAJORITY buy it? I think not.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI’m a Republican who doesn’t think Hitler was all that bad.
Hitler not only used the unitary executive theory, Leadership Principle, to make himself a dictator, start WWII, which killed many Americans, and eventually got hso country destroyed. Not to mention the concentration camps.
And you don't think he was all that bad?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pmThe U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to provide anyone to discuss the allegations. An embassy spokesman, Noah Miller , said in an e-mailed statement that, "in terms of contracting practices, we have checks and balances in our contract awarding system to prevent any irregularities from occurring. Each contracted company is responsible for providing security for the project."
Providing that security is the source of the extortion, Iraqi contractors say. A U.S. company with a reconstruction contract hires an Iraqi sub-contractor to haul supplies along insurgent-ridden roads. The Iraqi contractor sets his price at up to four times the going rate because he'll be forced to give 50 percent or more to gun-toting insurgents who demand cash payments in exchange for the supply convoys' safe passage.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pmThis guy is from a conservative district but even they are starting to move away from Bush's war. The poll numbers against the war are not just from liberals. Seventy percent of the country is not on the left.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pmComment by Administrator1 — August 27, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Way to whack-a-troll! G1!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pmThe comparisons between Loyalists of the past to modern liberals are legion. Giving aid to the enemy, etc. Nice try Administrator 1........you can forget about revisionist history....or try it in Eastern Block countries where it was tried but failed......how is Administrator 2 doing? Tell Soros he's wasting his money for me. Thanks.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:47 pmI hope someone challenges him in the primary and that the netroots give the challenger their all out support.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:48 pmComment by gummitch — August 27, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Sir, I’m sorry but it is not a myth.
Comment by Tryon — August 27, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Sure it is, and the only people who believe in it are people so far to the Right that anything but Fox propoganda looks "left".
August 27th, 2007 at 3:49 pmThe comparisons between Loyalists of the past to modern liberals are legion. Giving aid to the enemy, etc. Nice try Administrator 1……..you can forget about revisionist history….or try it in Eastern Block countries where it was tried but failed……how is Administrator 2 doing? Tell Soros he’s wasting his money for me. Thanks.
You seem a bit flustered, lib. You are babbling.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:51 pmComment by gdm — August 27, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
"Seventy percent of the country is not on the left."
Oh, to wish for some fun times!
August 27th, 2007 at 3:52 pmIs it not proof, of the neocons intelectual inability, that they deny the existence of the MODERATE MAJORITY? Seriously, how can extremes exist without a median?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:54 pmNo babbling here.........oh mighty Administrator. You've got your panties in a wad by being called out publicly about your disloyalty.....and now you're doing the typical liberal thing of avoiding the issue. You got worked buddy. I'm going to send a copy to Soros so he can see what a poor job you're doing for him.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:55 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Is moderation dead?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pmKerry won the district with 59% but , I found that result on Wikipedia which claims to cite the Almanac of American Politics. If someone could find a more reliable citation, that'd be helpful.
Anyway, this goes to show the need for primary challenges. Democrats sounding off Republican talking points are the last thing we need.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Tryon disagrees with you, he says the media is liberal. Bwah.
The fact is folks, [rattles newspper] the media is controversial, [pops pill] it is corporate, it is about profits. I, Lush Dimbulb, myself, [rattles candy bar wrapper, pops pill] profit off creating controversy, that is the fact folks, I profit off of your bias, your dislikes for my gain.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pmComment by Liberalismisdead No babbling here
Do you realize that you are making no sense at all? Read your comments. If you call them cogent, then that explains a great deal.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:58 pm.you can forget about revisionist history -LID
You mean like that VFW Vietnam Alden Pyle speech \/\/ made?
BWAHAHHAHA.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:58 pmAdministrator avoids the issue again.....lol........scoreboard.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:59 pmThe only "Red Menace" to freedom is the neocon movement.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:00 pmHe forgets that it is simply for what progressives stand for, you know - personal liberties and such
The Progressive Party stands for personal liberty? Interesting.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:00 pmIf you call Think Communist cogent then that might explain why you feel at home.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:00 pmState plainly your issue, Lib.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:01 pmThe only “Red Menace†to freedom is the neocon movement.
Comment by pete — August 27, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
And the trolls and ditto-heads who don't understand what neoconservatism or corporatism are but blindly support and ape the talking points.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:02 pmI am a hypocrite too folks, just like Lush Dimbulb.
Look, I sexually harassed a female co-worker over the phone. I also profit from controversy. Moral majority is a bunch of malarkey, just look at the moral majority being thrown under the bus or walking the plank into the seas of Mocha Rove Dick.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:02 pmAlready been stated. Libs = Loyalists. You know exactly the issue.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:04 pmComment by Filth O'Lielly — August 27, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Yes, but all that is what makes you so critical to the Repug movement. You show what family values that any good Repug should possess. You go, billo!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:05 pmThe Progressive Party stands for personal liberty? Interesting.
Comment by Tundra
I don't recall any Progressive ever calling the constitution a piece of GD paper. Then again maybe you think the mess the robber barons left behind was a good thing? You probably think slave wages, child labor, slums and prostitution are a good thing. Vitter(R) and Cunningham(R) certainly do.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:07 pmLibs love Neville Chamberlain and hate Winston Churchill. Libs hate America and love the UN. Libs would have mocked Washington at Valley Forge. Libs would have called all American Patriots like Henry and Hale radical extremists and warmongers. Libs love Sean Penn giving comfort to Chavez just like they loved Hanoi Jane taking pics with the NKorean commies. At least there is consistency.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pmAlready been stated. Libs = Loyalists. You know exactly the issue.
Comment by Liberalismisdead
It's a ridiculous premise. It completely misconstrues the meaning of the word "liberal." Etymologically speaking, "lib" is the root for liberty, liberation, etc. You are out of you league, Lib. I repeat, you're babbling.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:10 pmVitter(R) and Cunningham(R) certainly do.
Comment by Lush Dimbulb — August 27, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Don't forget Tommy Bug Man DeLay, saying his adultery was better than the Newter's who had his while driving the impeachment of Clinton.
Talk about two two a$$Klowns calling the kettle black. That may go down as one of the funnier "Family Values" skits the Repugs have ever put on.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:10 pmCons are only happy if someone is being killed or mistreated. If they can watch all the better (since they're too cowardly to act).
August 27th, 2007 at 4:10 pmI heard him on Air America this morning…
Comment by madcapdreamchaser — August 27, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Oops, this doesn’t fit the tone of the article, he’s preaching to “Right Wing Mediaâ€. Stick to the script!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:11 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
It's a very simple question. Is moderation dead? No need to provide proofs. An opinion will satisfy my curiosity on this point.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:11 pmBUSH KILLED MORE IRAQIS THAN SADDAM DID
Bush's director of National Intelligence, Mike McConnell, said “Saddam had killed 300,000 of his own countrymen.†See link...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19850951/page/3/
The British military admitted Bush killed 650,000 Iraqi civilians. See link...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2396031.ece
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032707P.shtml
Conclusion: Bush is a bigger tyrant than Saddam.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:11 pmCons are only happy if someone is being killed or mistreated. If they can watch all the better (since they’re too cowardly to act).
Comment by Dave C — August 27, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Don't forget the part where they can also make a sh!tload of money at the same time!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:12 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
So what are these Bush pioneers? Non-loyalists? I have carried water for the GOP for a decade, and what do I get in return? Mark Foley! Corruption! Prostitutes! Preachers with meth and male hookers! Men in public restrooms with 20 dollar bills, perversion and dishonesty! Why even the young republicans, such as Flory, a rapist! A men who wkaes up with his blanket around his waist with another College Republican smoking his pipe!
The fact is folks, the Conservative movement is dead, it is more liberal than the liberals liberal liberal!!!. Now I am gonna take some Viagra and go to Communist Cuba for a vacation.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:14 pmDon’t forget Tommy Bug Man DeLay, saying his adultery was better than the Newter’
They killed the conservative movement!! Traitors and they should be treated as such!! They should be sent to Cuba or to work in the Mariannas!!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:16 pmI don’t recall any Progressive ever calling the constitution a piece of GD paper. Then again maybe you think the mess the robber barons left behind was a good thing? You probably think slave wages, child labor, slums and prostitution are a good thing. Vitter(R) and Cunningham(R) certainly do.
Project much?
I don't think personal liberty is the cornerstone of the progressive party though. As a matter of fact I have been looking through many of the state Progressive party sites and interestingly enough I am not finding it listed as a "Hot Priority"
Perhaps you should understand what the party is about before you run around championing it as something it is not. I am not insulting the Progressive movement, I am simply stating that Personal Liberty is not what the PROGRESSIVE PARTY is about.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:18 pmNice logic chimp. Yeah, Bush killed Iraqi civilians......it's so stupid it's funny. The only thing is you probably believe it's true. I'm sure your mainstream views are shared by maybe 150 people here on TP and that's about it. I'd like to see you spout that off on any Sunday talk-show......stay anonymous and unimportant....in your cage.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:19 pmComment by Lush Dimbulb — August 27, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Oh and throw your (R) 's around all you want. I am a Libertarian as many people on this site can attest. If you aren't sure what one is then look up Personal Liberties.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
It’s a very simple question. Is moderation dead? No need to provide proofs. An opinion will satisfy my curiosity on this point.
Comment by pete — August 27, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
Once again proving the point that trolls evaporate when asked a simple question. Sigh. At least Mr. Pus gets apoplectic. These trolls aren't any fun.
Later.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pmThis concept of a "PRECIPITOUS Withdrawel is a myth. There are 160,000 troops and all their equipment in a landlocked and hostile country the size of california. If the decision was made TODAY to begin an orderly withdrawel from Iraq...it would probably take a YEAR to complete it. And that's assuming the insurgents, masters of the IED and Ambush tactics, will not try to hinder our leaving.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:21 pmOf course we could just blow up our equipment, but unfortunately much of it is needed stateside by our National Guard.
Pete.....you're attaching me to some dialogue you're having with someone else.....no wonder they're not answering.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pmLiberalismisdead, I'll take your lack of response as surrender. Good day.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:23 pm#32
One wonders if Baird would feel so upbeat if his children were old enough to be in Iraq and risking coming back from that slaughterhouse maimed and crippled for no justifiable reason whatsoever. One suspects that he would be whistling a different tune than the one that he is currently playing in front of the media.
Comment by Erroll — August 27, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
Or if he would be proud that his children were serving their country in the military. I hate the scardy baby liberals who project their coddling fears on others. You have no basis to presume he would be whistling a different tune.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pmLibs hate America and love the UN. -LID
Without the UN/US resolution, the one the GOPIGS love, there would be no Iraq Freedom Operation. Seems to me YOU love the UN.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:26 pmanybody checked his bank account recently
August 27th, 2007 at 4:28 pmI hate the scardy baby liberals who project their coddling fears on others.- r
You mean that the smoking gun that may be a mushroom cloud Condi?
Bwhahaha. You hate yourself!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:28 pmAdministrator.........you kidding? You got skewered with #88.........we all figured you were licking your wounds. Tell Soros he's a loser with lots of money to waste.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:29 pmPoor widdle submissive Republican skeerdy reactionist lemmings always looking for fear and an authoritative daddy with a dress and lover leap to jump from!!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:30 pmTell Soros he’s a loser with lots of money to waste.
Comment by Liberalismisdead
You are an anti-semite, Soros is Jewish.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:31 pmI hate the scardy baby liberals who project their coddling fears on others. You have no basis to presume he would be whistling a different tune.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
Name one chickenhawk Repug who has a kid in Harms way right now? seems the NeoCon mantra is Fight that illegal war, but do it without MY kids getting involved.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pmIraq civilian deaths have DOUBLED during the “surgeâ€
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003631296
"The British have basically been defeated in the south," a senior U.S. intelligence official said recently in Baghdad.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/06/AR2007080601401.html?hpid=topnews
“British move out of Basra police center, Shiite militia moves inâ€
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/26/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Basra.php
4,000 Guardsman Give Standing Ovation to Iraq Withdrawal
http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=WORLD&ID=565075331141468233
IT'S OVER!
August 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pmLID you anti-semite!
Skewer yourself much?
August 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pmSpeaking of "lots of money to waste" ,the article in Rolling stone Magazine about the scandalous track record of private contractors in Iraq is a must read. Google "the great Iraq swindle" if you want to see how our tax money is being shamelessly wasted to the Detriment of our efforts in Iraq.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pmI would especially appreciate the reactions of some of the conservative posters who frequent this site. It seems to me that this issue calls for bi-partisan outrage.
LID you anti-semite!
Skewer yourself much?
Comment by CID — August 27, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
This is nothing compared to his late night rants about the "JOOOOOOOOOS" he spreads all over the threads like a howler monkey tossing his feces.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pmNice try with the ad hominem attacks. I don't post late nights and I'm Jewish. If you can't win the argument, just attack the person and hope he goes away. Liberal rule #6 in HOW TO ARGUE CONSERVATIVES WHEN THEY HAVE ALL THE FACTS
August 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pmName one chickenhawk Repug who has a kid in Harms way right now? seems the NeoCon mantra is Fight that illegal war, but do it without MY kids getting involved.
Comment by upside00 — August 27, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/89071-politicians-sons-serving-afghanistan-iraq-wars.html
August 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pmOr if he would be proud that his children were serving their country in the military. I hate the scardy baby liberals who project their coddling fears on others. You have no basis to presume he would be whistling a different tune.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
This is very true, since we have no data to work from. If we actually had some "conservatives" with kids in combat, we could take a survey. As it is, we have to guess.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pmAren’t we glad libs weren’t around with Washington in Valley Forge? They would have mocked him relentlessly.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
bush would have fired washington. Bush hates patriots.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pmLiberal rule #6 in HOW TO ARGUE CONSERVATIVES WHEN THEY HAVE ALL THE FACTS
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Again, we're in trouble because we have no data to support this. In order to complete our study, we will have to find instances when Conservatives have all (or any) the facts. To date, there are not enough such instances to provide a valid sample. Get back to us in about, oh, 50 years. Maybe by then we will have accumulated some.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pmIf we actually had some “conservatives†with kids in combat, we could take a survey.
Psssst 117
August 27th, 2007 at 4:52 pmThe Progressive Party stands for personal liberty? Interesting.
Comment by Tundra — August 27, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Thanks! I am glad you agree.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:52 pmIf we actually had some “conservatives†with kids in combat, we could take a survey.
Psssst 117
Comment by Tundra — August 27, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Pssst. That's not a valid sample size, but thanks for trying. Not counting Ashcroft (who is not in office), I count 8.
How about this sample: children of people working in the White House who are serving in combat, children of pundits who are serving in combat. Or, for that matter, either pundits or members of the Executive branch who ever served in combat themselves.
Again, not a valid sample. Like, uh, zero.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:57 pmGummitch logic.....wow.....horrible. If you are a leader, you must have someone in your family involved in whatever you are voting on. I suppose they must have family members on welfare, working minimum wage, without healthcare, have had a botched abortion, in order to vote on those issues. This is high school logic. Are you in the class of '08?
August 27th, 2007 at 5:03 pmSounds like Liberal hand wringing to me:
What about the US servicechildren in Iraq risking coming back from that slaughterhouse maimed and crippled for no justifiable reason whatsoever.
Comment by Erroll — August 27, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
In my opinion, you do the soldiers a disservice
August 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pmComment by gummitch — August 27, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Or you could take those 8 and divide the number of Republicans in the House and Senate and realize that it is a greater percentage than the children of the population as a whole. Of course that would ruin your partisan attacks.
For your second sample, if I provide you with a name to prove just how wrong you are (Shocking I know) again, will you admit that you are simply slamming people with absolutly ZERO knowledge of the subject?
August 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pmGummitch logic…..wow…..horrible. If you are a leader, you must have someone in your family involved in whatever you are voting on. I suppose they must have family members on welfare, working minimum wage, without healthcare, have had a botched abortion, in order to vote on those issues. This is high school logic. Are you in the class of ‘08?
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Working for minimum wage is the same as being sent into combat? You're in a weak position to lecture anyone else about logic if you can't even make that simple distinction.
This is the same limp comparison that Mitt Romney made, as though his sons' work on his campaign was equivalent to other young people being sent into harm's way.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:10 pmAfter respectfully listening to my former right of center and exceedingly affluent father-in-law yap about his service as well as a ton of conservative bs for far too long, I finally asked him why he had never encouraged his son to serve. I kid you not his answer was " I didn't work this hard to have my son's life put at risk" After that I pretended to respect him out of respect for his daughter. Wars have always been actually fought by the working class and probably always will be. The empowered find them dispensable and certainly are not interested in any activities which might jeopardize their status.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmBaird is obviously being paid for his new-found voice
August 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmon Iraq. The big question is who has bought him out.
Too bad we can't review his recent checking account
for recent deposits of CASH. Baird is obviously on the take.
Now I know how the Dixie Chicks feel!
(an unhappy Washingtonian...)
August 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmIt will be interesting to see if Baird gets on Bill Maher's show this Friday. Bill usually keeps an open mind when Reps speak, even if he ends up not agreeing with them, but he would be a good "liberal media" guy for Baird's views to get a fair hearing.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:12 pmTundra - please don't upset these folks with hard evidence. This website is about an ideology, not about facts. You will upset their comfort zone amongst fellow conspiracists. The majority on here are the 9/11 was done by Bush crowd. It is hard to present logic to those who despise it.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:13 pmDon't you just feel Rove&Co has something on this guy. Oppositional Research--Rove's true calling. Hell, maybe that's why the Dems are always caving and the Repugs always standing with Bush--he's got something on a whole bunch of them. Can you say "NSA at your fingertips"?
August 27th, 2007 at 5:16 pmOr you could take those 8 and divide the number of Republicans in the House and Senate and realize that it is a greater percentage than the children of the population as a whole. Of course that would ruin your partisan attacks.
For your second sample, if I provide you with a name to prove just how wrong you are (Shocking I know) again, will you admit that you are simply slamming people with absolutly ZERO knowledge of the subject?
Comment by Tundra — August 27, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
The population as a whole doesn't decide to send people into combat, so that kind of puts a dent in your partisan attacks.
If you think a single individual in the Administration who served in combat, or has a child serving in combat actually answers the issue you're even more delusional than you look at first glance.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:16 pmDo you still doubt my words that the MSM is creating an environment friendly to Hill'reh's candidacy, and hostile to Obama, Edwards and any other anti-war Dem candidate?
Why do you liberal netrooters keep supporting these Clintonistas, when they do so much to hurt you? You fight the good fight, they take the spoils and toss you away when you've run out of strength.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:17 pmSounds like Liberal hand wringing to me:
What about the US servicechildren in Iraq risking coming back from that slaughterhouse maimed and crippled for no justifiable reason whatsoever.
Comment by Erroll — August 27, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
In my opinion, you do the soldiers a disservice
Comment by r
In MY opinion, Bush USED the soldiers for his POLITICAL and monetary gain, and is guilty of WAR CRIMES.
And GENOCIDE.
God SEES and REMEMBERS...
Be VERY afraid, Bush supporters.
He sees YOU and what YOU have supported, too!!
August 27th, 2007 at 5:17 pmWars have always been actually fought by the working class and probably always will be. The empowered find them dispensable and certainly are not interested in any activities which might jeopardize their status.
Comment by dbadass — August 27, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
Possibly the most baseless generalization ever made here, and that says something. Libs just love a good stereotype.
The last presidential nominee the Dems put forth was a war vet. Working class, I don’t think so.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:17 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 27, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
I enjoy discussing issues with most Progressives. Some of the ideas are truly thought provoking and well thought out. Some have a large chance of actually working. People like Gum there make the rest of them look bad really. All they can do is spout false data, make outrageous claims and start name calling when called on it. (It's coming soon). People like him have no ability to actually research anything and their ideas are firmly given to them by someone else.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:18 pm"Or you could take those 8 and divide the number of Republicans in the House and Senate and realize that it is a greater percentage than the children of the population as a whole."
The people in the population as a whole who want us to stay in Iraq? I don't think so.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:20 pm"Seventy percent of the country is not on the left.
Comment by gdm"
They are to the left of a typical neoCON. Anyone to the left of them is a "radical" or a "lefty". Too bad for them that a large majority of the people in America are now lefties.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:22 pmGod SEES and REMEMBERS…
Be VERY afraid, Bush supporters.
He sees YOU and what YOU have supported, too!!
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 27, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
And forgives too. That's why I don't need to be afraid.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:22 pmso that kind of puts a dent in your partisan attacks.
Which part was partisan? When did I utter one bad thing about the Democrats/Progressives? Perhaps you need a dictionary because maybe that word doesn't mean what you think it does.
If you think a single individual in the Administration who served in combat, or has a child serving in combat actually answers the issue you’re even more delusional than you look at first glance.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:22 pmOh so your claim of Zero was another wrong statement? We aren't supposed to read what you write, but what you think you may mean?
The last presidential nominee the Dems put forth was a war vet. Working class, I don’t think so.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Obviously it is a generalization but still one that taught me much about those whose mouths run faster than their deeds. Certainly exceptions occur but generalizations are generalizations by definition for a reason.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:24 pmThe people in the population as a whole who want us to stay in Iraq? I don’t think so.
Comment by J — August 27, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
I meant the children serving in Iraq/Afganastan as a whole. Politicians on Capitol Hill have a higher rate of having a child in harms way than the general population does (Statistically speaking)
August 27th, 2007 at 5:24 pmGod SEES and REMEMBERS…
Be VERY afraid, Bush supporters.
He sees YOU and what YOU have supported, too!!
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 27, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
And forgives too. That’s why I don’t need to be afraid.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007
Yes, God DOES forgive. But ONLY if you have REMORSE and are SORRY for what you have DONE.
Bush is NOT sorry for the WAR CRIMES he has committed. Forgiveness comes with REPENTANCE.
No REPENTANCE, no FORGIVENESS.
So, if YOU support the WAR CRIMES and GENOCIDE caused by Bush and his PNAC criminal cronies, and are NOT sorry for your sins,
you will NOT be forgiven.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:28 pm"progs and libs misbehave like Nazis and other totalitarians by ostracizing their own members for dissent."
There is a difference between what you label "dissent" and being just plain being wrong.
There are far more diverse views within the Liberal ideology than Conservatism. That's why you don't like it, I'm sure.
Ending our Occupation of Iraq should not be a bi-partisan issue. It is harming our and their country in literally countless ways and that should be a decision everyone can stand behind... Oh yeah, I forgot, everyone does except you, most Republicans in Congress and about 4 other people.
Wake up and get with it.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:28 pmThe population as a whole doesn’t decide to send people into combat,
Umm Just our representatives. Perhaps you need a class on how our country works or something. If you didn't get into it in High School alot of colleges offer them. Believe it or not ummmmm it wasn't a partisan choice (I know that will be hard for you to hear, but please try and stay strong)
August 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pmGod SEES and REMEMBERS…
Be VERY afraid, Bush supporters.
He sees YOU and what YOU have supported, too!!
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 27, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Unfortunately, there is no god - if there was then I wouldn't be too concerned with Bush and his imperial ambitions. It is those of us that are alive that have to make Bush pay for his gross misconduct. Waiting for god to punish Bush is a huge waste of time.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pmWars have always been actually fought by the working class and probably always will be. The empowered find them dispensable and certainly are not interested in any activities which might jeopardize their status.
Comment by dbadass — August 27, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
You stated it as fact. I pointed out that it was a baseless generalization.
Obviously it is a generalization but still one that taught me much about those whose mouths run faster than their deeds. Certainly exceptions occur but generalizations are generalizations by definition for a reason.
Comment by dbadass — August 27, 2007 @ 5:24 pm
You admit it was a baseless generalization, then preach that you’ve learned from others who run their mouths faster than their deeds.
Sometimes when you’re in a hole, you should just stop digging.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:34 pmSometimes when you’re in a hole, you should just stop digging.
Sure wish Bush would take this advise.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:38 pmI enjoy discussing issues with most Progressives. Some of the ideas are truly thought provoking and well thought out. Some have a large chance of actually working. People like Gum there make the rest of them look bad really. All they can do is spout false data, make outrageous claims and start name calling when called on it. (It’s coming soon). People like him have no ability to actually research anything and their ideas are firmly given to them by someone else.
Comment by Tundra — August 27, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Data, Tundra. Why not provide some data to refute what I've said, and which you claim is "false data"? And you might want to back off on the smarmy comments about "name calling" when you were the one who made rude comments about my education level and snide comments about "people like him". That's known as hypocrisy, Tundra, just in case your education didn't cover vocabulary words.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:40 pmSometimes when you’re in a hole, you should just stop digging.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Or you can just dig up especially if the hole is under a giant T.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:40 pmBush is NOT sorry for the WAR CRIMES he has committed. Forgiveness comes with REPENTANCE.
No REPENTANCE, no FORGIVENESS.
So, if YOU support the WAR CRIMES and GENOCIDE caused by Bush and his PNAC criminal cronies, and are NOT sorry for your sins,
you will NOT be forgiven.
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 27, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
You sound a little too pious for my taste.
WAR CRIMES, GENOCIDE, PNAC criminal cronies. Sounds like you’ve already done the judging.
I prefer not to put myself in Gods shoes (so to speak).
August 27th, 2007 at 5:43 pm"WArs is too vague a concept. Rich and poor all volunteered in World war II. In the Viet Nam War many took deferments like our vice president. For example...George Bush Sr. was shot out of the skies in combat....George W. guarded the skies over texas.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:43 pmAnd none of this really matters to the loved ones who open their door to grim faced soldiers bearing the ultimate bad news. Tears and broken hearts are non partisan.
My question for all...was George W. Bush carefull, did he take all facts into consideration...did he have a well thought out plan???
"I meant the children serving in Iraq/Afganastan as a whole."
Ah, got it. I'm on a "Congress doesn't represent the people" kick right now and read it w/ those glasses on.
I don't think you have to have served or know someone personally serving to make a decision to send troops where needed. I just think that with Iraq, it is a war of choice and this argument can be made (by others) much more easily because of that. A "well, you want us there, then you go" kind of thing and I think that's more the point that is being indirectly expressed through that argument.
A friend of mine was killed earlier this month in Iraq and even though I have been against the war from the first rumors of it, this now makes it A LOT more personal for me.
If it were a war of actual National Defense and not Ideology, or for resources, then leaders wouldn't hear as much criticism for having no personal involvement on the Operations end of it and I would not feel as if my friend's sense of duty had been used. He joined to fight Al Queda in Afghanistan after 9/11, but was sent, instead, to be bait in Iraq.
The bottom line is that ending the Occupation of Iraq is the number one moral issue going on in America right now and it can't possibly get enough attention.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:48 pmAh, got it. I’m on a “Congress doesn’t represent the people†kick right now and read it w/ those glasses on.
Yeah I reread it and realized it was worded poorly, My apologies for the confusion. Besides I am on that kick all the time as well, I don't trust any of them.
My condolences to your friend and his family
I am against the war as well and agree that it needs alot of attention, I just think we need to start ditching all these politicians who haven't "represented" us and done what we ask. I'm not partisan though so listening to people say "It's all the republicans" drives me nuts.
August 27th, 2007 at 6:10 pmGummitch,
You are correct, my comments were rude and uncalled for. For that I am apologizing.
As far as Data goes, you stated that no republicans had kids in the war zone. I provided you with several. You then said you didn't like the data because out of the couple hundred in the house and senate I provided 8 (Plus a couple Dems as well). You then decided to say that look at staffers etc and that Zero of them were there.
You stated I was partisan attacking, I asked to see where? You did not provide that comment.
August 27th, 2007 at 6:16 pmThis weasel-punk bullshit artist should be made to give back the wealth he has exacted at the expense of selling out his countrymen, then dumped in the middle of the town square of Baghdad to fend for himself (something he knows precious little about). Not one more American soldier should die so this son-of-a-bitch can get richer. Wake up America, and wake up Washington State. This pig should be politically skewered and butchered next election (or sooner, Washington has a good recall system). Can't you find a good American citizen, from either party, to replace this self serving, waffling scum of a cull?
August 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pmThis dude's face has all the markings of a big old alcoholic.
He was probably so bombed while he was there he didn't witness any actual bombing.
jack jett
August 27th, 2007 at 7:19 pmhttp://www.YabbaDabbaHubbaDo.com
http://www.city-data.com/ forum/ politics-other-controversies/ 89071-politicians-sons-serving-afghanistan-iraq-wars.html
Comment by Tundra — August 27, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Thanks for the link, was good information. hs interesting is that most of the real gung-ho politicians on the Right (other than McCain and Hunter), are not among the list. And I am betting most of the posters here that are so supportive are the same.
August 27th, 2007 at 7:31 pmAh yes....Mr Baird....I have the unfortunate pleasure of living in the district he tries to represent. It is funny that all you folks here are so quick to "throw him under the buss". But if you needed his vote you would be playing "footsies" under the stalls in a minute.
August 27th, 2007 at 8:10 pmhere we go again with this "we're making progress" - what progress? - and where? - and for whom? - and how has all of this progress come about? - why don't any of these ass-clowns be specific when they use this phrase which has become as irritating as "if we leave they'll follow us home" and "we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here"
August 27th, 2007 at 8:25 pmthis phrase which has become as irritating as “if we leave they’ll follow us home†and “we’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them hereâ€
Comment by ipod — August 27, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
Right, because we know the head choppers won't try to fly our planes into our buildings.
Dill.
August 27th, 2007 at 8:39 pmRight, because we know the head choppers won’t try to fly our planes into our buildings.
Dill.
Comment by r — August 27, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
right - because they already did
August 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pmUnfortunately, there is no god - if there was then I wouldn’t be too concerned with Bush and his imperial ambitions. It is those of us that are alive that have to make Bush pay for his gross misconduct. Waiting for god to punish Bush is a huge waste of time.
Comment by yike
I won't wait for God to punish Bush.
The timespan before they MEET is very SHORT, indeed...
And when YOU say "make him pay", that becomes VENGEANCE, of which NO ONE is ever satisfied.
We need to bring him, Cheney and the rest of the
PNAC WAR CRIMINALS to JUSTICE...
Something that so far has escaped Libby (though close), Gonzo, Rummy, Bush, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz...
August 27th, 2007 at 9:20 pmYou sound a little too pious for my taste.
WAR CRIMES, GENOCIDE, PNAC criminal cronies. Sounds like you’ve already done the judging.
I prefer not to put myself in Gods shoes (so to speak).
Comment by r
Who CARES about "your taste". Bush and his criminals have committed WAR CRIMES.
The WORLD knows it.
Only WAR CRIME deniers like you REFUSE to see it.
I make NO JUDGEMENT.
But we SEE what Bush and his ilk have done.
So does the Almighty God.
Be VERY afraid for your SOULS if you support these MURDERERS...
August 27th, 2007 at 9:26 pmJust send your children or grandchildren to this bogus war and I'll believe you're sincere. Otherwise you're just a hack.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:03 pmTundra why dont you do the "the math" for us idiots to show us how wrong we are? My math makes the numbers come out about equal as opposed to the general populace. I'm guessing, in any case, these politicians children are most likely NOT the ones in the trenches, more likely military intelligence or something similar where there arent neary as frequently in the line of fire, or even in kuwait or something.
Also, care to do the the math about the dems vs. republicans as far as how many sentators/congressman have served in the military? And do you tend to notice the republicans who have served... Hagel, Warner, etc...seem to be the ones who seem to be coming to their sense the soonest?
August 28th, 2007 at 1:26 amAlso Tundra, do you think the average joe who didnt do anything to start or authorize this war, and in fact was given false information about the alleged WMD threat, has as great of an obligation to sacrifice for this war as the people who started and authorized it? appoximately 1 percent of the the us population is in the reserves or regular military (3 mil vs 300 mil)
August 28th, 2007 at 1:46 am> Today’s the first day of RNC Training (Fall semester),
ie. community college philisophy classes... have fun dogf#cker, you're going to have an interesting shock at some point..
August 28th, 2007 at 1:49 amTundra why dont you do the “the math†for us idiots to show us how wrong we are? My math makes the numbers come out about equal as opposed to the general populace.
35 and up is 50.48% of the population (this is based on in order for someone to have an 18 year old child they would have to be around 16 at the time of birth, Sure there are exceptions but for the sake of argument I am using that)
For sake of ease we will use your 300,000,000 Number for population data and drop off that pesky .48% and come up with 150,000,000 people are of age to have children in the military. Since you provided the 3,000,000 number we will use that as well. (Even though it included inactive reserves etc)
So for every 50 people in the general population we have 1 who's child is in the military.
Ok to Republicans on Capitol hill.
Chimpy and Darth = 2
Republicans in the House = 202
republicans in the Senate = 49
Total= 253
Republicans we know about who have children in the service =8
So that means that for every 31.65 of them 1 has a child in the military (And that was just the ones listed as Iraq vets, not total)
August 28th, 2007 at 2:51 am