The Way Out Of Iraq: How To Safely And Orderly Redeploy In A Year
The Way Out Of Iraq: How To Safely And Orderly Redeploy In A Year
Opponents of a sensible Iraq withdrawal strategy have tried to argue that a redeployment is unfeasible either because it will be occur too quickly or because it will take too long.
President Bush argued that “precipitous withdrawal from Iraq is not a plan to bring peace to the region or to make our people safer at home.” Defense Secretary Robert Gates argued that an Iraq withdrawal “will be a long process.”
A new report by the Center for American Progress, entitled “How To Redeploy,” states that “deciding between a swift or extended redeployment is a false dilemma.” An orderly and safe withdrawal is best achieved over a 10- to 12-month period:
A phased military redeployment from Iraq over the next 10 to 12 months would begin extracting U.S. troops from Iraq’s internal conflicts immediately and would be completed by the end of 2008. During this timeframe, the military will not replace outgoing troops as they rotate home at the end of their tours and will draw down force and equipment levels gradually, at a pace similar to previous rotations conducted by our military over the past four years.
Most analysts claim that a withdrawal will be a drawn-out procedure because they assume, that given the amount of military equipment in Iraq, the U.S. is capable of moving out only one brigade per month to Kuwait.
The CAP report accelerates the timetable by placing an emphasis on the troops over the equipment. “It matters more to get soldiers and Marines to safety in Kuwait than it does to ensure one unit’s equipment is shipped out before another’s is able to.” The report explains that, rather than risking the lives of troops or wasting financial resources to stay longer, certain “non-sensitive equipment — such as freezers, sinks, fuel, excess equipment, and x-ray machines” can be left behind.
The report, authored by analysts Lawrence Korb, Max Bergmann, Sean Duggan, and Peter Juul, offers a detailed tactical perspective on withdrawal. Among a host of strategic maneuvers, the plan involves “closing forward operating bases” in Iraq, not replacing units that are rotated out, and securing the routes out of Iraq to Kuwait.
When Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) recently asked the Pentagon about contingency plans for withdrawal from Iraq, Undersecretary of Defense Eric Edelman responded that she was reinforcing enemy propaganda. If the administration fails to take the initiative in planning for a drawdown, the report warns troops could end up “waiting for the helicopters on the embassy roof.”
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Just from looking at the map, it looks like the way out is exactly the same route they took in.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:06 amSound good to me. If only someone had some balls to initiate this plan…
August 29th, 2007 at 10:06 amUnder what conditions would the troops re-re-deploy back into Iraq?
If not, why not just bring them the Fu(k home??
August 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amWe don’t need to get out. We need to keep fighting the terrorists. We kill hundreds a week.
But I gues you coward libs don’t want to fight, eh?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:13 amwhy make it harder? just pack up and GET THE F*CK OUT!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:14 am#4 We don’t need to get out. We need to keep fighting the terrorists. We kill hundreds a week.
But I gues you coward libs don’t want to fight, eh?
Comment by firehead — August 29, 2007 @ 10:13 am
translation: im too big of a pussy to leave mommies basement and enlist.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:15 amThe Iraqis will rid themselves of Al Qaida foreign fighters as soon as they rid themselves of the other foreign fighters.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:16 amBut I gues you coward libs don’t want to fight, eh?
Comment by firehead — August 29, 2007
And you are posting from Iraq, right?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:18 am>We kill hundreds a week.
Uh huh… how many new terrorists do we create in the process by causing deaths of non-combatants and making “terrorists” out of thier family members?
Your hero rumsfeld even admitted we have no way of telling whether we are killing more terrorists than we are creating…do you have access to some secret “maths” that he doesnt?
By the way, any of you trolls have any SUBSTANTIATED sources regarding the percentage of iraqi insurgents that are Al-Queda?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:20 amIt’s painfuly clear why this bush war is and will continue untill we get the bush regime out of office…It will continue after the next election as well unless we get non enabeler’s in office….The war could last many more year’s because of the supplier’s….More palett’s of money, gun’s and pay off’s are promised and have been from the start, other wise we would of been out of this night mare already…The war monger’s and profateer’s will not let it end easily and they could care less about the loss of lives, here or over there…..It matter’s not graft’s and map’s…..Control and profit at any cost is all they are interested in.. Untill these nut cases see the public is up in arm’s like we were during Nam they will not stop this GD war….Blessings
August 29th, 2007 at 10:21 amLEAVE THE “EQUIPMENT” BEHIND.
building new “equipment” will provide jobs
here at home, where they are deperately needed…
the iraqis need such “equipment” for their own military,
since we destroyed what little they had…
APOLOGIZE AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:21 am.
I’m sure Bush will read the report cover to cover and implement it post haste!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:21 amThis story simply confirms what we already knew. When it comes to surrender the French can only bow to the American liberal.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:23 am#
I’m sure Bush will read the report cover to cover and implement it post haste!
Comment by blogenfreude — August 29, 2007 @ 10:21 am
—————
Hahaha, he definitely will!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:24 amNow we know why it’s taking so long to get MRAPs to Iraq,
August 29th, 2007 at 10:24 amsure wouldn’t want to leave THOSE behind.
By the way, any of you trolls have any SUBSTANTIATED sources regarding the percentage of iraqi insurgents that are Al-Queda?
Do any of you libs have any SUBSTANTIATED sources regarding the percentage of Iraqi insurgents that are willing to drive car-bombs into civilian markets and gatherings?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:25 amRight! The “cut and run” meme was always nonsense. Leaving US facilities and equipment there intact would be immediately practical, and leaving them to the Iraqis would give them something that works ( presumably), though I don;t suppose the Iraqis will see it as a gift–but let them do the dismantling if they want.
Once departed, the ocuntry will have to sort itself out ( no thanks to the US of course) but when a dominant power emerges then the US will have some relatively stable organization with which to deal.
Then maybe the US could ( and should) work to remediate all the damage and problems it has inflicted, such as cleaning up all the junk and sticking to direct practical assistance rather than interfering with the politics.
As long as the US stays, nothing will be accomplished.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:25 amFrom the LA Times:
A new generation. We must leave so this madness stops.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:27 amOff-topic but funny:
Two Boston boys were playing baseball in the street when one of them was attacked by a killer Rottweiler. The dog immediately locked his jaws on one the boy’s leg.
Thinking quickly, the other boy ripped a board off of a nearby fence, wedged it into the dog’s collar, twisted it and broke the dog’s neck.
A Fox News reporter, who witnessed the incident, rushed over to interview the boy.
The reporter began entering data into his laptop beginning with the headline: “Brave Boston Red Sox Fan Saves Friend From Jaws Of Vicious Animal.”
“But, I’m not a Boston Red Sox fan,” the young hero interjected. “I cheer for the Texas Rangers.”
“Sorry,” replied the reporter. “But since we’re in Boston, I just assumed you were a Red Sox fan.”
Hitting the delete key, the reporter began again, “Proud Supporter of our President Rescues Friend from Horrific Dog Attack.”
“I’m not a George Bush fan either,” the boy says.
The reporter says, “I assumed that you must like George Bush if you are a fan of his old baseball team.”
Hitting the delete key, the reporter begins again: “Arrogant Little Liberal Bastard Kills Beloved Family Pet.”
August 29th, 2007 at 10:27 amThis story simply confirms what we already knew. When it comes to surrender the French can only bow to the American liberal.
Though, in a strange twist, your post references a thread you will NEVER see on TP regarding Sarkozy’s threat about bombing Iran to gain their nuclear-issue compliance.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:28 amrdrr
August 29th, 2007 at 10:29 amThis story simply confirms what we already knew. When it comes to surrender the French can only bow to the American liberal.
Comment by Frank J — August 29, 2007 @ 10:23 am
What a silly, irrational comment. Meaningless.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:30 amNot only was that off topic but also about nine years old. Substitute ‘CNN’ or whatever for ‘Fox’ and you have the original incarnations.
You new to this internet-blog thingie?
zzzzzzzzzzz
August 29th, 2007 at 10:30 amBy the way, any of you trolls have any SUBSTANTIATED sources regarding the percentage of iraqi insurgents that are Al-Queda?
Comment by Null and aVoid Chocolate Jesus — August 29, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Seven percent, according to the New York Times. And Juan Cole estimates that a large portion of those are probably not affilliated with al-Qa’ida at all, but are simply using the term to make their captors think they’re tougher than they are.
http://www.juancole.com/2007/08/who-is-us-fighting-in-iraq.html
August 29th, 2007 at 10:31 amYep! Good one tom,….Very true….LOL…..Blessings
August 29th, 2007 at 10:31 amFrank J…
Ah yes liberals and fFrench always surrender! The Iraqis however do not appear to have surrendered to the US. So I guess you admire the Iraqis for not surrendering. Which logically then means you want them to keep on killing American troops.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:31 amI say we take off and nuke the place from orbit–it’s the only way to be sure.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:34 amHow many of you have actually READ the CAP report?
I am working my way through it and looking at the holes in the plan. It is built on a “perfect world” scenario, I can tell you that much.
I was in Kuwait for the initial withdrawal in summer 2003 (not spring 2004 as the report states) and just to get the Marine Corps personnel and equipment out took just over 6 months. That is before we fortified areas, established infrastructure, and we had less “rollingstock” on the ground. It is not as easy as just throwing it all on planes and ships.
There are also limitations as to how many ships and planes can be brought into “theater” at a time before you have a bogging down effect. Don’t forget about weather conditions like hurricanes, shamals, and such.
The CAP report may have some merits, but it also has many holes.
And also notice in the plan, there are extensions of unit tours and NO PLAN LISTED to extract the Marines they place in the Kurdish region.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:34 amThis story simply confirms what we already knew. When it comes to surrender the French can only bow to the American liberal.
Comment by Frank J — August 29, 2007 @ 10:23 am
That’s because the French learned about 200 years ago how moronic it is to invade and occupy the Middle East. American liberals have always known it was a bad idea.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:35 amI have a better idea. Whoever is in command of our forces in Iraq, if anyone is in command, needs to call a general meeting. At this meeting he orders all troops in the country on XDay (for extricate) to start converging on the route shown on this map and fight their way all the way to Kuwait. Destroy anyone who does not clear out of their path, then get them on ships, and bring them home. To hell with the equipment. we have blown more money on contractors than the equipment we would leave behind.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:35 amRighties still can’t get the disctinction that Al Qaeda in Iraq and Al Qaeda of bin Laden are not affiliated. And that Iraqis use the term Al Qaeda generically, to mean any group that engages in insurgency activities. So it’s pretty hard to put a a percentage on something that doesn’t really exist in Iraq.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:35 amI say we take off and nuke the place from orbit–it’s the only way to be sure.
Comment by Lt. Hicks — August 29, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Go back to GBS
August 29th, 2007 at 10:36 amThanks, Sharon. I thought it was funny (and true) too.
Apparently, Gil doesn’t agree with us. He probably believes today’s headlines in Murdoch’s newspapers: “Republican Senator Victim of Police Abuse After His Arrest for Tap-Dancing in a Restroom Stall”. Or “Senator Craig: ‘I am Not Gay’”. Or “The Surge is Working in Iraq”.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:36 am…
but TP did post this, in the FAST thread, on monday:
In his first major foreign policy address, French President Nicholas Sarkozy called for a timetable to withdraw foreign troops from Iraq. “The Iraq tragedy cannot leave us indifferent. France was, thanks to Jacques Chirac, and remains hostile to this war,†said Sarkozy.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/27/thinkfast-august-27-2007/
so, whyever would sarkozy make a “threat about bombing Iran to gain their nuclear-issue compliance.” ?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:37 am…
I don’t know Bob, I do know that moving 150,000 troops plus equipment takes time, and isn’t that easy. I think that was why after Japan surrendered to the US, they just dumped everything in the ocean, and brought the soldiers home.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:37 amComment by Krazny — August 29, 2007 @ 10:37 am
Explain the 60 years we have been in Japan, the bases on Okinawa…
A far cry from “dumped everything in the ocean, and brought the soldiers home”, ain’t it?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:39 amI say we take off and nuke the place from orbit–it’s the only way to be sure.
Comment by Lt. Hicks
They’re coming to pick you up in 3 days, go out to that field they told you about, and wait till just before dark.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:40 amMake sure you wear the orange hat, and have an (unopened) beer in each hand, so that they know for sure it is you.
See you on Ursa Major D431.
Just leave the equipment. We’re gonna send it to them eventually anyway, and it would be more economical to leave it there rather than bring it home and send back new stuff. Rebuilding our military will be a big jobs booster.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:40 amNot discussing Japan or Okinawa, I know we have had troops there for some time. I was referring to many of the smaller islands that we fought over in the Pacific. Besides I was agreeing with you. There is no easy solution for Iraq. The proverbial rock and a hard place come to mind. I do expect that it will take around 10 years for Iraq to stabilize, and I don’t think whether US troops are present or not will reduce that number.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:44 am>Seven percent, according to the New York Times.
any trolls want to dispute this number? Lets say sunni nationalists make up another 50 percent of the insurgency. So does anyone dispute that we are now arming and supporting half the insurgence in order to help get rid
> So it’s pretty hard to put a a percentage
> on something that doesn’t really exist in Iraq
right… its the whole “idealogical franchise” thing the righttards have a hard time grasping..there is no formal membership roster, master list, or membership requirements… these days, if you hate america, you just say you are in the #1 “I hate america club”, which is currently Al-Queda.
these righttard idiots think jihadis come to iraq, fax thier resume to pakistan, pay an appilcation fee, and wait and see if they get accepted and get their offical “allah rulez, crusaders droolz” ski mask and matching gun belt
August 29th, 2007 at 10:44 amLt. I forgot to tell you — I’m an idiot.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:45 amhacker bob, we decimated all of Japan. Fire Bombed them for months before obliterating 2 cities with 2 bombs. We killed 100,000’s of people and commited 100,000’s of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. We had our entire country focused on the war and winning it at all costs. We had rationing that limited food, gas, nylon and metals. We had air raid drills. The entire country went to war.
This president didn’t bother mobilizing the country. He thought fear alone would be enough. He thought hired guns and private companies could do better. He thought there was no need for more soldiers, more equipment or any long term plan.
This president failed us in so many ways. Wake up.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:45 am>in order to help get rid
of 7 percent…. sounds like arming sunni insurgent to fight al-queda is some serious “voodoo math”
August 29th, 2007 at 10:45 amthese righttard idiots think jihadis come to iraq, fax thier resume to pakistan, pay an appilcation fee, and wait and see if they get accepted and get their offical “allah rulez, crusaders droolz†ski mask and matching gun belt
Comment by Null and aVoid Chocolate Jesus — August 29, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Yup! And foreign fighters are even less of a percentage – just 1.1%.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:48 amLt. I forgot to tell you — I’m an idiot.
Comment by Raven — August 29, 2007 @ 10:45 am
Namejack
August 29th, 2007 at 10:48 am#
I have a better idea. Whoever is in command of our forces in Iraq, if anyone is in command, needs to call a general meeting. At this meeting he orders all troops in the country on XDay (for extricate) to start converging on the route shown on this map and fight their way all the way to Kuwait. Destroy anyone who does not clear out of their path, then get them on ships, and bring them home. To hell with the equipment. we have blown more money on contractors than the equipment we would leave behind.
Comment by Jack — August 29, 2007 @ 10:35 am
That is the worst idea I’ve heard in a long time, and I can’t believe I’m somewhat dignifying it with a response.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:49 amThe founding fathers warned you.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:49 amhttp://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07353/founders-big.jpg
Frankly the Presidents invasion plan was in a perfect world situation as well. “greeted as liberators”, “throwing flowers”, “war will over in 3 weeks”. Did I miss any other good quotes?
August 29th, 2007 at 10:50 amThat is the worst idea I’ve heard in a long time, and I can’t believe I’m somewhat dignifying it with a response.
Comment by Francois — August 29, 2007 @ 10:49 am
True – there’s no reason to call a meeting for that. They could totally do it by videoconference.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:51 amOh Raven, I only filled in the blank for you. I’m a fellow progressive commentator here, and I think you’re writing doesn’t hold up to standards.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:53 amComment by Hellinabucket — August 29, 2007 @ 10:45 am
I am not disagreeing with you on any of that. What I am saying about Iraq is just what Kranzy said, it is not as simple as some would make it seem.
My point in the Japan comparison was that we did did not just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home. That is all.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:53 amFrankly the Presidents invasion plan was in a perfect world situation as well. “greeted as liberatorsâ€, “throwing flowersâ€, “war will over in 3 weeksâ€. Did I miss any other good quotes?
Comment by Krazny — August 29, 2007 @ 10:50 am
Nope, I think you got ‘em all. You are right, it was a perfect world scenario for the invasion as well.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:55 amI have vivid memorie’s of our beloved president being shot, marcher’s, Kent State, chopper’s swooping to roof top’s in Nam, shocked women and children spattered in blood in Iraq, service men and women killed or maimed, innocent people in Lebanon being blown up and poor citizen’s dieing and being abandonded by our own in N.O….My life has seen the best of time’s and the absolute worst of time’s and all was caused or ignored by man kind…The Peace was short lived in every case…..The war’s need to end and just as quickly as they started…It will not, I know, but it could and should…Leave all but the troop’s behind…Just end the madness……Blessings
August 29th, 2007 at 10:56 amUnless we can figure out a way to stuff all their oil in our suitcases we won’t be leaving until at least 1.20.09
August 29th, 2007 at 10:56 amOh Raven, I only filled in the blank for you.
Comment by The Namejacker
I missed you to.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:58 amWait a minute… That arrow isn’t pointing towards Kuwait.. It’s pointing towards IRAN! ZOMG!!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:59 amby “redeploy” do you mean send our soldiers back to Afghanistan and into Darfur?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:02 amMy point in the Japan comparison was that we did did not just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home. That is all.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 10:53 am
of course, we weren’t getting our ass kicked by camel-jockets, either.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:03 amCamel-jocket? If you’re going to use a slur at least get it right, you ignorant moron.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:05 amNo intervention in Dafur.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:06 amIt’s not in our interset!
No more war!
Camel-jocket? If you’re going to use a slur at least get it right, you ignorant moron.
Comment by Francois — August 29, 2007 @ 11:05 am
Well, I make typos, and you are irony-challenged.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:07 amI would like to see US troops head home Bob, no secret on my part. I have a friend who is in his second tour flying Blackhawks around Iraq, and he has already been shot down once. Every time I hear of a chopper going down my stomach does flip flops.
The situation should never have been gotten into. It is apparent from Cheney’s statements even in 2000, that he knew it was a bad idea. And yet 5 years, thousands of lives, and billions of dollars, here we are. I don’t have a solution. I don’t think anyone really does. We have screwed the pooch so hard on this one, that it will take a decade or more before the damage is repaired.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:08 am#
This story simply confirms what we already knew. When it comes to surrender the French can only bow to the American liberal.
Comment by Frank J — August 29, 2007 @ 10:23 am
#
How dare we “surrender I raq to the Iraqi people”.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:08 amIrony-challenged.. I’m quite sure.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:09 amHow dare we “surrender” Iraq to the Iraqi people.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:09 amcamel rockets
August 29th, 2007 at 11:09 amIrony-challenged.. I’m quite sure.
Comment by Francois — August 29, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Sorry. I meant stupid.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:10 amFrank! Have you enlisted yet? Let me guess…
August 29th, 2007 at 11:12 amYes, stupid.. I’m sure I am, especially compared to you.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:12 amronjazz,
I never saw a camel race in Iraq (but I did in Kuwait), so they are not camel-jockeys, as you (mean to) say. (nice racial slur, by the way)
August 29th, 2007 at 11:13 amWell, I make typos, and you are irony-challenged.
Comment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Besides – there aren’t too many camel-jockeys in Iraq. Camel-racing is more of a gulf thing, and in Qatar and other states they’re using robots instead: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7705
August 29th, 2007 at 11:13 amFrankly the Presidents invasion plan was in a perfect world situation as well. “greeted as liberatorsâ€, “throwing flowersâ€, “war will over in 3 weeksâ€. Did I miss any other good quotes?
Comment by Krazny — August 29, 2007 @ 10:50 am
Iraqi oil will pay for it all.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:14 amYeah, we’re getting off topic. There was no need for a racial slur, that was the real point. Of what race are you? I’d like to use one against you in similar fashion.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by Krazny — August 29, 2007 @ 11:08 am
ding…ding…ding….
Give the man a cigar! He hit the nail on the head.
I would like nothing more than to have everyone home (out of Iraq), but I also can see where logistically and politically it is difficult. If not done correctly, we can do MORE damage at a time we need to minimize it.
Best wishes for your Blackhawk flying friend.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:18 amI was, of course, for the irony-impaired, quoting rightwing morons who have always referred to any desert peoples as camel-jockeys. Knowing that Iraq is the cradle of civilization is usually part of liberal awareness. Knowing that I frequently parody rightwing BS was too great an assumption on my part. Right, Frenchie? Relax.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:19 amYeah, we’re getting off topic.
Comment by François
Oh, I think we may have something here,
August 29th, 2007 at 11:19 amlike ICD’s to help fight the war on terra’
(Improvised Camel Devices)
The troops should not be forced to drive out of Iraq to Kuwait. Better to have them all fall back to 4 to 6 bases and then be flown out with their equipment. Some vehicles and tanks can be left behind for Iraqi army.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe whole idea of surrender is a ridiculous red herring, since there is nobody to accept a surrender. This is because it’s not a war; it is a Bushco Enrichment Program, and Bushco places little-to-no value on the lives or families of the troops they have enslaved and used as pawns. Nobody was happier with Bush’s failure to defend the USA on 9/11 than Bushco and PNAC traitors, not even Bin Laden. Al Qaeda’s strongest allies occupy the White House.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:24 amComment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Well, if you are quoting someone, then you would not mind providing a link to the quote, would you?
Otherwise, please refrain from the slurs. It is beneath you.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:24 amIf its gonna take a year then start NOW that way when the democrats take power they dont have to clean arsehole Georges shit
August 29th, 2007 at 11:25 am#
Right, Frenchie? Relax.
Comment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 11:19 am
#
Know why they call the French Frogs?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:26 amThey’ll jump on anything.
Oh, I think we may have something here,
like ICD’s to help fight the war on terra’
(Improvised Camel Devices)
Comment by Raven — August 29, 2007 @ 11:19 am
We did see a DMDS (Donkey Missile Delivery System) once. They would lash a shoulder fired missile to the side of a donkey and once they got close enough to the target area, they would reach under the blankets and fire it.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:28 amIf I can find the picture I will post it.
Comment by Jay Randal — August 29, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Good Idea, now define all the logistics involved. Do not forget to include temporary housing, ground and air transportation required for the relocation, maintanance time and costs for the aircraft, etc.
It just ain’t as easy as that.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:32 am#1 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#2 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#3 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#4 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#5 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#6 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#7 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#8 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#9 Impeach Bush and Cheney
#10 Impeach Bush and Cheney
Follow these steps faithfully, and the white house would be cleansed for the new President not to have to start a fresh tenure dealing with Iraq.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:37 amIf I can find the picture I will post it.
Comment by hacker bob
Was this during the Afghani insurgency against the Soviets?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:40 amI believe I remember….
That would be one bad ass ass
August 29th, 2007 at 11:41 amIf I can find the picture I will post it.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 11:28 am
I remember that. It was in 2004 I think. It was horrible – the poor thing had half its’ skin burned off by the rocket exhaust.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:41 amI remember that. It was in 2004 I think. It was horrible – the poor thing had half its’ skin burned off by the rocket exhaust.
Comment by toasterhead — August 29, 2007 @ 11:41 am
I saw it in 2005, but it may be a page out of the “Insurgency Handbook”.
That would be one bad ass ass
Comment by Raven — August 29, 2007 @ 11:41 am
We refered to it as the DMDS of a hot piece of ass!
August 29th, 2007 at 11:46 amWe don’t need to get out. We need to keep fighting the terrorists. We kill hundreds a week.
But I gues you coward libs don’t want to fight, eh?
Comment by fathead — August 29, 2007 @ 10:13 am
lol. And who exactly are you fighting skippy?
Other than your mom over who does the laundry?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:47 amHah, Frenchie! Love it!
August 29th, 2007 at 11:48 amMy point in the Japan comparison was that we did did not just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home. That is all.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 10:53 am
Thats because the Japanese citizens weren’t shooting at us pinhead.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:48 amFollow these steps faithfully, and the white house would be cleansed for the new President not to have to start a fresh tenure dealing with Iraq.
Comment by James Saville Row — August 29, 2007 @ 11:37 am
I like that 10 step program.
Lets recommend it to congress.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:50 amComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Well, Hurrah for the day!
August 29th, 2007 at 11:52 amThats because the Japanese citizens weren’t shooting at us pinhead.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Intelligent people have already discussed this and put it to the side. The point was about logistical movement not manuver warfare.
But, for your sake, the Japanese citizens were also not getting assistance of the Filipinos and VOLUNTARILY DISARMED as a condition of surrender.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:57 amBut, for your sake, the Japanese citizens were also not getting assistance of the Filipinos and VOLUNTARILY DISARMED as a condition of surrender.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Thats because on September 2nd, 1945, on board the USS Missouri, the Japanese formally surrendered to the allied forces.
On what date did the formal surrender or Iraq occur?
Pinhead.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:02 pmThe only similarity between our unrighteous invasion of Iraq and the war with Japan, is that our unwarranted “sneak attack” could be likened to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
We came like theives in the night, and bombed their civilians and homes, murdering thousands of them in their sleep.
Theres your comparison to WW2, Macarthur.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pmWell, if you are quoting someone, then you would not mind providing a link to the quote, would you?
Otherwise, please refrain from the slurs. It is beneath you.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 11:24 am
How PC of you!
August 29th, 2007 at 12:06 pmOf course, based on our subsequent invasion following the bombing, our assault on the helpless citizens of Iraq would better be likened to the Nazi invasion of Poland, where German armour crushed the technologically inferior Polish army in a matter of weeks, and rolled into Warsaw to occupy it, only to meet with never ending resistence from the Polish people, who used “improvised explosives” to blow up German personnel carriers as they patrolled the Warsaw ghetto.
THATS the closest comparison you can draw to WW2, and our invasion of Iraq.
In other words, we’re the Nazi’s, and Bush is Hitler.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:09 pmGreat article in MSNBC on msn.com money section about who’s profiting from the war
It’s no surprise that KBR Inc. (KBR, news, msgs), a division of Halliburton (HAL, news, msgs) during the years we examined, tops the first list, compiled by Eagle Eye, with $17.2 billion in Iraq-related war revenue for 2003-2006. KBR is one of the largest construction and energy field-service companies in the world. It has a long history of collaborating with the U.S. government on war-related construction.
In Iraq, KBR has been working on base construction and maintenance, oil-field repairs, infrastructure projects and logistics support. KBR got about a fifth of its revenue from the Iraq war in 2006, according to our calculations.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/WhosProfitingFromTheIraqWar.aspx
August 29th, 2007 at 12:10 pmComment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Sorry, even when I was shooting at them (and them at me) I never used terms like that. Only a moron judges a man by his skin and nationality.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
9 months of building forces on their border is hardly “sneeking in like a thief in the night”
August 29th, 2007 at 12:11 pmIn other words, we’re the Nazi’s, and Bush is Hitler.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
Well, Hitler was a combat-decorated veteran. Bush is more like Goerring, with his catapulting the propaganda.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:12 pmWell, Hitler was a combat-decorated veteran. Bush is more like Goerring, with his catapulting the propaganda.
Comment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Goerring was a decroated Air pilot in WW2. In fact he was famous for flying an all White Fokker D7 biplane in which he saw combat.
Guess we’ll have to keep looking for someone as cowardly and chickenhawk as Bush and Cheney, huh?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:16 pmCorrection.
Goerring was a decroated Air pilot in WW1.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:17 pmThats pretty bad when you can’t find a leader in the Nazi party as chicken and corwardly as Bush and Cheney, huh?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:17 pmSorry, even when I was shooting at them (and them at me) I never used terms like that. Only a moron judges a man by his skin and nationality.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
9 months of building forces on their border is hardly “sneeking in like a thief in the nightâ€
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Are you deliberately obtuse or truly stupid? I was making fun of wingnut racists with the term camel-jockey. and you were shooting at them. So who’s the moron?
And Shock & Awe was one of the supremely embarrassing moments in world history, in which the world’s biggest, richest nation killed thousands of civilians and destroyed the infrastucture of one of the world’s great cities, AND LOST THE WAR! hacker, we don’t belong there, we never should have gone there, and if we have to pay a high price for getting out, so be it. Bush has dug us in so deeply, it will be extraordinarily difficult, granted. But we are wrong, and we need to correct the course, starting with getting out. anything else is just an excuse for Bushco to keep financially raping the working and middle classes, their original goal to begin with. This war is against US as well as the fictional Al Qaeda, wholly a creation of the GOP.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:18 pm“We don’t need to get out. We need to keep fighting the terrorists. We kill hundreds a week.
But I gues you coward libs don’t want to fight, eh?
Comment by firehead”
No, us libs want to do the sensible thing, bring our troops home. For every 100 “terrorists” we kill, we create another 150. It is a losing proposition and can never be “won”. You can’t “win” an occupation. The only way you can “win” an occupation is the complete subjugation of the population. Is that what you want to do?
The fact is that we won the “war” a long time ago. Now we are in a quagmire of occupation like we were in Vietnam. Do you want us to lose 53,000 American lives for a lost cause?
BTW, why are you not in Iraq?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pmThink you meant WWI Bartlebee, I doubt Goering flew a bi-plane during WWII
August 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pmComment by ronjazz — August 29, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
I know what you were attempting to do. All I asked is that even in jest, that no one use those terms.
As far as me being a Moron because I was shooting at them. Sorry pal, when rounds are aimed at my head, I will act accordingly. But it is nice to see your view of military personnel. We are just morons to you.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm“The Iraqis will rid themselves of Al Qaida foreign fighters as soon as they rid themselves of the other foreign fighters.
Comment by RUCerious”
You forgot the “us” on the end of your sentence. It should have read:
“The Iraqis will rid themselves of Al Qaida foreign fighters as soon as they rid themselves of the other foreign fighters, which would be us.”
August 29th, 2007 at 12:25 pmOur invasion of Iraq is quite similar to Hitlers invasion and subsequent occupation of Poland.
Even though Hitlers army with its advanced technology easily descimated the Polish miltitary (remember the famous Polish calvary charge against the German Panzers?), the technologically superior german army was unable to defeat the imbedded Polish “insurgency”, which stabbed at the German troops at every turn, using HOMEMADE bombs, and small arms. Just like the Iraqi people.
In fact, the CIA reported that prior to our 2003 “blitzkrieg” against the civillians in Iraq, that Saddam Hussien was reading books on the Warsaw Ghetto, and the resistence put up against the Nazi occupiers by the Polish citizens.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:29 pm“waiting for the helicopters on the embassy roof.â€
Well it’s a huge palacial embassy we’ve built there. It can hold 20,000 employees. So the roof will be amply suited to waiting for helicopters.
However, Clinton turns my stomach. She’s a carpetbagger first and foremost.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:32 pm“Explain the 60 years we have been in Japan, the bases on Okinawa…
A far cry from “dumped everything in the ocean, and brought the soldiers homeâ€, ain’t it?
Comment by hacker bob “
Wow, we have been occupying Japan for 60 years! I bet Japan would be surprised to hear about that.
We have bases in Japan with the permission of the Japanese government.
So bob, were you home schooled? Because your knowledge of American history is seriously lacking.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:33 pm“….Our invasion of Iraq is quite similar to Hitlers invasion and subsequent occupation of Poland…..”
Funny you should say that. I find the Reichtag fire to be curiously similar to 911 as well as the rise of the police state in the US spawned out of fear, just like Hitler.
It is a historcal fact that Prescott Bush was a Hitler supporter. Seems his grandson has been using his play book.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:34 pmComment by bilbobaggins — August 29, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Wow, did I say occupying?
Your reading comprehension sucks.
We did not bring all of our equipment home then send it back to Japan.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:37 pm“Yes, stupid.. I’m sure I am, especially compared to you.
Comment by Francois “
Gawd, talk about acting like a two year old. “I’m rubber and you’re glue”.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pmFunny you should say that. I find the Reichtag fire to be curiously similar to 911 as well as the rise of the police state in the US spawned out of fear, just like Hitler.
Comment by Amerikagulag — August 29, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Thats exactly right, and I was including that in my assessment, although one would have to be historically educated like you clearly are, in order to get it. Hacker Bob is not.
Hacker Bob does not see the amazingly obvious similarities between Hitlers use of what HE called a “terrorist attack”, and Bush’s use of 911. Hitler, like Bush, told the people of his country that the Polls and the Jews were responsible for the attack, and that unless he launched an immediate invasion into Poland, more “terrorism” would occur. Bush of course told the people that it was “muslims” we had to kill, and since “they all look alike”, lets start in Iraq.
Hitler also introduced the “Enabling Act”, which limited civil liberties and gave the government increased powers of arrest, surveillance and interrogation. Just like Bush’s “Patriot Act”. The circumstances and events are amazingly similar.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pmWe did not bring all of our equipment home then send it back to Japan.
Comment by jacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Once more for the Pinhead.
Thats because the Japanese citizens were not shooting at us.
Pinhead.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:43 pmIt is a historcal fact that Prescott Bush was a Hitler supporter. Seems his grandson has been using his play book.
Comment by Amerikagulag — August 29, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
I don’t know about that, but he did make a fortune off the German comapny, Farber, that built the death camps that gassed millions of Jews.
Hows that for a family legacy?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:46 pmIn fact, the Bush’s ARE Germans.
Thats right. Their name is spelled BUSCH.
Not Bush. BUSCH.
They drooped the c during the war, to hide their Germanic origins.
And Prescott’s company’s assets were SEIZED by the FBI, for TRADING WITH THE ENEMY.
There some real Americans, those Busch’s, huh?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:48 pmA German family, comes to America, and during WW2 trades with the Nazi’s, illegally, and then their son becomes President. Then HIS son becomes President, and launches an all out war against the Muslims, killing , torturing and imprisoning hundreds of thousands of them.
Just like Hitler and the Jews.
Heil Busch!
August 29th, 2007 at 12:52 pm“Your reading comprehension sucks.
We did not bring all of our equipment home then send it back to Japan.
Comment by hacker bob”
Your writing skills suck. If that is all you meant, than that should have been what you wrote. What you wrote said that we are still there 60 years later. That implies an “occupation”.
Also, how do you know that we didn’t dump what equipment we left behind and then at a later date when we established military bases in Japan, with the permission of the Japanese government, we then sent new equipment?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:55 pmWon’t it be impossible to evacuate all those flowers and candies?
What if it falls into the hands of our enemy?

August 29th, 2007 at 12:56 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
You obviously have not seen me post much. Do I think that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11? No. Do I agree with all of the provisions of the Patriot Act? No. Do I subscribe to the “Muslims did it so kill all Muslims” mentality? No. I have friends and neighbors that are Muslim.
Iraq and Al Qaida are two different matters. Should we aggressively pursue AQ? Yes, I believe we should. Should we get out of Iraq as soon as possible? Yes we should. Should we take unnecessary risks in getting out of Iraq? No.
Thats because the Japanese citizens were not shooting at us.
Pinhead.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
Comparing post WW2 Japanese citizens to Modern Iraqis is a false comparison. You are trying to compare a war with a National Military that is equiped by the state and uniformed to a war-in-name-only with an insurgency that is not state run or funded and not uniformed that is easily absorbed into the local population.
Just so you know, it is not a large percentage of the Iraqi citizens shooting at us. It is not like the entire nation is shooting at us.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:56 pmComparing post WW2 Japanese citizens to Modern Iraqis is a false comparison. You are trying to compare a war with a National Military that is equiped by blah blah blah
Comment by Pinhead bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
No moron.
You are.
You’re the idiot who brought up our post war occupation of Japan.
Pinhead.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pmComment by bilbobaggins — August 29, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Where are the records or accounts of us dumping the equipment?
August 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pmJust so you know, it is not a large percentage of the Iraqi citizens shooting at us.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Sure it is numbskull. Who do you think is planting the thousands of IEDS?
Who do you think keeps a look out while they do?
Who do you think is launching the literally THOUSANDS of daily attacks?
From the safety of your keyboard you’re quite the warrior.
A mouth warrior.
Busy cheering on the killing of other people, as long as its not you.
Puss.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:01 pmWhere are the records or accounts of us dumping the equipment?
Comment by inbred bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
Look at the stupid troll.
In one sentence he proclaims you can’t compare our post war occupation of Japan with the Iraq, and then in the next sentence he’s comparing our postwar occupation of Japan, with Iraq.
He’s such a committed liar that he can’t even keep his own schtick straight.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm“Where are the records or accounts of us dumping the equipment?
Comment by hacker bob”
I don’t know, where are the records or accounts of us NOT dumping the equipment?
Is it possible for you to make an intelligent statement or to say anything without throwing straw men in the way?
I doubt it. From what I have seen thus far, your critical thinking skills are on the par of an 8 year old.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:04 pmJust from looking at the map, it looks like the way out is exactly the same route they took in.
Comment by Raven — August 29, 2007
—————
Raven,
It’s interesting that you’ve noted the route out, is the same as the route we took in. I’d noticed that myself some time ago, because it reminded me of how our troops were sitting in a gridlock of traffic of our own making, because of all the equipment…tanks, humvees, guns, lots of people, and all the other stuff you bring to fight against whomever it is that you’re gonna fight.
So the cruel irony always pops up in my mind, anytime I hear of routes out of Iraq. It seems like the common sense way would be the same way we went in.
But, back then, obviously nobody was shooting at us, or even doing much to defend themselves against our assault. The troops were like sitting ducks on the route going in, except that they were safe enough, since there was no “enemy”, and none of the people had any weapons of their own to do anything to us.
Now 5 years along, the route may be the same, but the ‘conditions’ have surely changed into the disaster of our own making as well.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
We are talking about EQUIPMENT, not comparing Japanese citizens to Iraqis. Can you see the difference?
All that was being discussed was what the US did with their equipment in the Pacific theater of operations after the surrender of Japan. The fact that we have had bases in Japan for the past 60 years would lead to the natural assumption that most if not all of that equipment was used to establish those bases.
You are the one that brought up the false argument of “Thats because the Japanese citizens were not shooting at us.”
You should really use your energy to re-enforce your argument instead of resorting to name calling. It makes you look childish.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pmFirst, Pinhead Bob said…
My point in the Japan comparison was that we did did not just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home. That is all.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 10:53 am
And next Pinhead Bob said….
Comparing post WW2 Japanese citizens to Modern Iraqis is a false comparison.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
He’s so stupid, he just compared Japan in WW2 to Iraq, and then in a follow up comment, declared that his own comparison was false.
Whats that the one redneck comic says? You can’t “fix stupid”?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:09 pmAll that was being discussed was what the US did with their equipment in the Pacific theater of operations after the surrender of Japan.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
So?
The fact is inbred, that the reason we didn’t worry about a fast exit from Japan was because THE JAPANESE PEOPLE WERE NOT SHOOTING AT US.
So any comparison of the proposed leaving equipment behind now, and what we did in post war Japan is moot.
The Japanese people were not shooting at us, and the Iraqi people are.
End of discussion.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:12 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
look at the two subjects being discussed. EQUIPMENT and CITIZENS.
The discussion is about the gear, not the people of Japan or Iraq. I was discussing what the US did with its equipment, you brought up the citizens of Japan.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pmBut you do make a good little cheerleader Bob.
Just like your divine leader, the “little Fuhrer”.
You both know how to cheer and dance for the troops, like the good little girls you are.
But God knows you want nothing to do with the actual combat. You leave that to other peoples children, while you sit on the sidelines and shake your pom poms.
:|
Ra Ra Ra
August 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pmUh, Bartles, Bob has served, In Iraq.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:16 pmThe discussion is about the gear, not the people of Japan or Iraq. I was discussing what the US did with its equipment, you brought up the citizens of Japan.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
So?
Whats your point then inbred?
You were discussing what we did with equipment when we left Japan. You pointed out that we didn’t just abandon our equipment in Japan.
I pointed out that was because the Japanese people were NOT SHOOTING AT US.
My point was clear, and accurate.
Your point has yet to be made.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:17 pmUh, Bartles, Bob has served, In Iraq.
Comment by RUCerious — August 29, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
No he hasn’t. Bob is one of several troll handles in here, and he is another Messiah U graduate sent in here by the late Jerry Falwell (may he rest in hell) to disrupt left wing blogs and push his right wing propaganda.
The closet this guy came to the Iraq war was watching it on TV.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:19 pmBut you do make a good little cheerleader Bob.
Just like your divine leader, the “little Fuhrerâ€.
You both know how to cheer and dance for the troops, like the good little girls you are.
But God knows you want nothing to do with the actual combat. You leave that to other peoples children, while you sit on the sidelines and shake your pom poms.
:|
Ra Ra Ra
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Would you like to see my Service Record Book? Or the Navy/Marine Corps Commendation Medal and the Navy Marine Corps Achievement Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Global War on Terror Medals (both service and expeditionary)? See, I haven’t sat on the sidelines, I was there.
I am an active duty Marine. 14 years of service. SSgt (E-6) MOS 3537 with background as a 3533. Google me if you doubt me. SSgt Robert Perkovich. You will probably find hit from when I was a recruiter
August 29th, 2007 at 1:20 pmThanks RUC,
I think BARTLEBEE assumes that this is Mr.P or someone like him.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:22 pmI am an active duty Marine. 14 years of service. SSgt (E-6) MOS 3537 with background as a 3533. Google me if you doubt me. SSgt Robert Perkovich. You will probably find hit from when I was a recruiter
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
Bullshit. The only thing active in you is your herpes infection.
Sgt Rober Perkovich is a name you googled, and then attached to yourself.
The only thing military about you is your GI JOE collection, troll.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:23 pmI think BARTLEBEE assumes that this is Mr.P or someone like him.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
No.
BARTLBEE KNOWS you’re Mr P, or someone like him.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:24 pmRead the report everyone. It discusses the “equipment” that would go and what would stay.
This is the most comprehensive guideline I have seen about withdrawal. It states it’s not the manual but can be the groundwork for a solid plan.
Read it and then discuss, don’t jump like this administration without understanding the complexities. That’s what a bully does.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:24 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Umm…. OK, I pulled that name out of my ass.
It is SSgt not Sgt.
I have never had herpes
Use the google, go to my myspace page (myspace.com/rmperkovich), check the military locator ( am I now stationed at Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo.)
And DON’T make fun of my GI Joes!
August 29th, 2007 at 1:28 pmBARTLBEE KNOWS you’re Mr P, or someone like him.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Then BARTLEBEE will owe hacker bob an apology when proven wrong.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:30 pmam I now stationed at Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo.)
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
Where you sit in a blog all day and cheer on the war, right?
Wrong.
You’re in your moms basement (or some other family member) and you’re a military buff, like most right wing nutjobs, and the closest you came to serving anything was burgers at the local Wendy’s.
I don’t believe you for one second. Not one second.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pmBARTLBEE KNOWS you’re Mr P, or someone like him.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Judging by the rampant typos and lunacy in your current line of questioning, I think it’s more likely that you’re actually Mr. P, namejacking BARTLEBEE’s handle to make us all look like we hate the troops, or at least derail a potentially good discussion on the logistics of a withdrawal from Iraq with a non-sequitir non-issue. Any comparison of Iraq with Japan is ludicrous from a tactical, political, geographic, and cultural standpoint.
If this is BARTlEBEE, please stop flaming. We don’t defeat the trolls by becoming them.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pmThe only thing military about you is your GI JOE collection, troll.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
What’s the big deal, maybe he outgrew his Barbie collection.

August 29th, 2007 at 1:35 pmSee Bob, you have zero credibility. Want me to demonstrate?
YOU stated that we didn’t just abandon our equipment in Post War Japan, criticizing the plan in this thread to leave certain equipment behind.
Then, when I pointed out that the reason we weren’t in a hurry, was because the Japanese people were not shooting at us.
You responded by indicating that we could not compare the Japanese people with the people of Iraq, which I was not doing. I was accurately identifying the CIRCUMSTANCES of Post War Japan to counter your argument where you used the Post War Japan to discredit a good plan of withdrawal from Iraq.
In other words, you’re just another TROLL.
Zero credibility. Zero intelligence. Just a lot of right wing babble.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Actually, I am in my living room on convalescent leave after a hernia operation.
If you do not believe me, fine. Nothing I do on the net will show you otherwise.
Personally, I think you are a 12 year old goat with 7 legs. Prove me wrong.
There are several people that post here that can vouch for me.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pmUhh Toasterhead? It was lamebrain Bob who made the comparison to Japan. I merely challanged it.
Try READING before attacking me next time.
And yes, I AM BARTLEBEE.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:37 pmPersonally, I think you are a 12 year old goat with 7 legs. Prove me wrong.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
I may be. But you’re no Marine.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:38 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
I didn’t completely discredit the plan. I said it had merits but it also has many holes.
If you think it is the perfect plan, then you do not understand military logistics.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:42 pmI may be. But you’re no Marine.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
You know, I realize this is a moot point, but what would you accept as proof that I am a Marine?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:44 pmI didn’t completely discredit the plan. I said it had merits but it also has many holes.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
And you compared it to our not abandoning equipment in Post War Japan.
And when I pointed out that that was because the Japanese people weren’t shooting at us, you responded by saying that was a false comparison.
Do you see your credibility problem here “bob”?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pmYou know, I realize this is a moot point, but what would you accept as proof that I am a Marine?
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Shoot me your email. If you’re active duty like you claim, and are a staff sgt, stationed on base, then you’ll have a .mil address.
If you don’t want to post it publically then shoot it to bartlebee222@yahoo.com.
If I receive it and mail you, and you respond, then I’ll recant and apologize.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pmBart, Kranzy stated that he thought that the US basically dumped their equipment overboard after Japan surrendered and brought the troops home. I stated that we did not, we have had bases in Japan for 60 years and that the logical assumption was that the equipment was used in establishing those bases. So really, neither of us brought up the Japan arguement, it was Kranzy.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:49 pmSo really, neither of us brought up the Japan arguement, it was Kranzy.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
I wasn’t responding to Krazny. I was responding to your statement that we didn’t abandon our equipment in post war Japan.
I pointed out that was because the Japanese were not shooting at us, and you replied by stating the Japan comarison was a false one.
Thats where you credibility fell apart.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:52 pmAnd I’m still waiting for that email.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
You’re absolutely out of your mind, if you even have a mind in place.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmSee? Bob magically becomes “statistico” and the email never arrives.
The only thing govt issued to Hacker Bob, is Cheese.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:55 pmI didn’t completely discredit the plan. I said it had merits but it also has many holes.
If you think it is the perfect plan, then you do not understand military logistics.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
I’d agree with you. One glaring omission, though I suppose it’s really outside the scope of the report, is that it doesn’t touch on the political side. A 10-12 month withdrawal will only work if we are talking with SIIC — and by extension Iran — and as-Sadr to (a) allow us safe passage through southern Iraq and (b) get them both to the negotiating table. The announcement that we’re leaving can be the catalyst for an cease-fire, at least in the Sunni-Sunni/Shi’ite-Shi’ite conflicts.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pmYou guys will have to pardon Hacker Bob.
He’s off calling all of his military friends right now to see if one of them will use their .mil address to email me so he can continue mascarading as a Marine.
August 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pmDude, You should be receiving the e-mail any second now. It will come from a us.army.mil address. I had to log in a type the damn thing.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:01 pmOk. I just got an email from Bob from an Army address. He said the reason he didn’t use his Marine address is because of a security issue, and while I’m confused why a Marine would have an Army address, (Marine is a branch of the Navy), I will accept it, and apologize.
Bob, I apologize. I am a little suspicious about the source of the email, but I will take your word for it at this point.
You are a marine, and I am a fool. Sorry for doubting you.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:03 pmBARTLEBEE,
OH BART WHERE FOR ART THOU
August 29th, 2007 at 2:03 pmI’m right here.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pmThe drawdown offered in this thread is a rational and feasible guideline. as far as equipment goes a cost analysis would be conducted to determine the value and it’s cost effectiveness versuses the lives of our troops.
This guide needs to be pushed as a viable solution.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pmThanks Bart. As I tried to explain inthe e-mail, I am currently stationed on an Army base. As well as several people from the Navy and the Air Force. It is a consolidated training facility. I am unable to access the the USMC server because of something called PKI certification. You have to have software and a reader for you ID card in order to log into your USMC account from a remote terminal.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pmBut you’re still out there on the Japan thing.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pmOK, Japan, history.
Lets focus on Iraq. Where did I discredit the plan?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:10 pmI am unable to access the the USMC server because of something called PKI certification. You have to have software and a reader for you ID card in order to log into your USMC account from a remote terminal.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
No that makes sense. I can see that. I’ve worked on several US bases (Tyndall, Laughlin, Andrews, Bolling, etc) and I’m familiar with the encryption requirement.
Once again, I apologize for doubting you. Your using a JapanWW2\Iraq comparison in one sentence, and then denouncing it in another, made you look like just another troll in here, and I mistakingly lumped you in with them. I am sorry for that. I don’t agree with you, but I’m sorry I doubted you.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:11 pmLets focus on Iraq. Where did I discredit the plan?
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Sure. Right here.
My point in the Japan comparison was that we did did not just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home. That is all.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 10:53 am
To anyone other than the most doltish of readers, your stating that we did not “JUST ABANDON” our equipment and bring the troops home, in a thread that recommneds “abandoning our equipment and bringing the troops home”, would appear to be criticizing the plan.
See where your credibility issue comes in?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pmBart, no harm done.
Please, do not lump me in wiht Mr. P and the like. They irritate me as well.
I think there may have been confusion between what I said and what I ment.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pmYou said that. Then I pointed out the REASON WHY we didn’t “just abandon our equipment and bring the troops home”.
You responded, by stating a comparison of the Japanese people and the Iraqi people was a false comparison, which was in itself, a false statement.
I wasn’t comparing the Japanese people with the Iraqi people, and you knew that. I was accurately responding to your critique, that we didn’t just abandon the equipment.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
I criticized a part of the plan. But I also said part of it has merit. And the plan does not call for abandoning all of the equipment. Just some of it.
Someone said we dumped all of the equipment after ww2 and I said that I did not think we did. That is all. Yes, the Japanese were not shooting at us. No not all of the Iraqis are not shooting at us. Some are, not all. If that were the case we would be fighting a Nation, not an insurgency.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI think there may have been confusion between what I said and what I ment.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Well that goes without saying.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pmOf course, Mr P spells “Meant” “ment” too.
Hmmmmmmm
August 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pmLets focus on Iraq. Where did I discredit the plan?
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
You didn’t. Though I’m not sure where the logistical difficulty would arise in having too many vehicles in theater if the drawdown is over a 12-month timeframe.
Also – why go all the way to Kuwait when there’s a deep-berth port at Umm Qasr? Is it because we need to break down and sanitize all the equipment and vehicles before loading them on ships as per USDA regs?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
nope, I am just a bad speller. I am in no way Mr. P
August 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmAlso – why go all the way to Kuwait when there’s a deep-berth port at Umm Qasr?
The idea is to get all US forces out of Iraq first, then out of the region. Plus Kuwait has much more port space for larger ships and holding areas for the equipment that is awaiting shipment.
Is it because we need to break down and sanitize all the equipment and vehicles before loading them on ships as per USDA regs?
Comment by toasterhead — August 29, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
That is a large part of it. It takes a long time to wash down and then inspect all of that equipment.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pmI criticized a part of the plan. But I also said part of it has merit.
You said that LATER.
Someone said we dumped all of the equipment after ww2 and I said that I did not think we did. That is all. .
No. You didn’t say you “think” we didn’t. You said we didn’t. And you said it in such a way as to criticize the current plan on this thread. You said….
we didn’t “just” abandon our equipment and bring the troops homeâ€.
Anyone reading that would see that as a critique of the current plan, which it was. Anyway, we’re straining at a gnat now. The best thing I guess would be for you to clairfy your intent, and for me to say ok and move on.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:30 pmnope, I am just a bad speller. I am in no way Mr. P
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
I know. I was kidding.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:30 pmBARTYBEE is not too bright.
The battery pack in Bartlebee robot is overcharged.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pmMy intent in post 36 was just to discuss what we did with our equipment after WW2 in a response to post 35. I was not trying to compare the CAP plan with our actions after WW2. It was not meant to imply that the CAP plan was calling for us to abandon equipment in place. The post WW2 discussion was not meant to take away from the CAP plan. It was just to discuss what we did after WW2 only.
is that clarification enough?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:40 pmNot really but it will have to do.
See, your use of the word “JUST”, illuminates the intent, not to mention you are in a thread that advocates abandoning our equipment and pulling the troops out.
When you point out that “we didn’t just abandon our equipment and pull the troops out” referring to our post war occupation of Iraq, then that doesn’t leave much ambiguity as to the purpose of the statement.
But if you say you didn’t mean that, then who am I to doubt you? I’ll accept thats what you meant, and move on.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pmCorrection. That should have read “referring to our post war occuption of Japan”.
Anyway I’m ready to move on.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:47 pmok Bart, lets move on.
I am still looking at the CAP plan. Were is the extraction of the Marines they leave in the Kurdish area? What is the course if there is an escalation in violence against our troops while in egress? What is the “fudge factor” as soon as shamal season hits? What do we do if there are hurricanes that prevent of damage shipping? If a Unit in the Kurdish area needs additional support, what it the TOS (time on station) for the strike fighters coming out of the Gulf?
In short, academically it looks great, what are the details?
You have worked with the military before so you know it is not as easy as just throwing everybody on a plane and leaving.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:53 pmOf course its not.
A. We’re leaving out Bahrain as a location for redployment.
B. We should have thought of this when we went in.
C. Soldiers are being killed every day while we stay. Leaving may be equally as dangerous but thats the price of admission. You can’t come into your neighbors house, screw his wife, kill his dog and then expect to not be shot at when you’re making for the door.
D. We don’t know what will happen when we leave, anymore than we knew what would happen when we went in. For all we know, they might find those flowers to toss that everyones talking about.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:00 pmjust heard -
AP Radio News just announced THIS story
from the Center for American Progress…
kudos!
August 29th, 2007 at 3:03 pm.
One things for sure though. We never should have went in, and occupying the place is a bad way to fly.
The Iraqi army has 250,000 well trained (4 years worth, courtesy of Uncle Sam), well armed (once again, thank you Uncle Sam) troops, and if they can handle their own countries security.
The fact that they don’t, is a testament to our absolute stupidity in going in in the first place.
Everyone told the right wing that exactly what is happening now, would happen, if we went in. And they were right.
We KNEW the Iraqi’s would resist. We KNEW they’d fight a house to house campaign. We KNEW they’d launch an insurgency. But Bush and the right wing ignored this, and now our soldiers are paying the price.
Leaving is the only solution. Leaving well may be the best solution, but it may not be an option at this point. One things certain though, if we don’t get out soon, we won’t have to worry about HOW to leave. The international community will help facilitate that.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:05 pmIf we stay much longer, we may not get to dictate the terms on which we will leave.
China and Russia are not holding cricket matches over there. They’re gearing up to repel us from the middle east. And anyone who doesn’t see that is as dense as those who thought the Iraqi’s would greet us as liberators.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:07 pmA. We’re leaving out Bahrain as a location for redployment.
Look at a map, Bahrain is impractical.
B. We should have thought of this when we went in.
That is obvious.
C. Soldiers are being killed every day while we stay. Leaving may be equally as dangerous but thats the price of admission. You can’t come into your neighbors house, screw his wife, kill his dog and then expect to not be shot at when you’re making for the door.
Risking the troops lives in order to save the troops? Sounds like fu(king for virginity to me.
D. We don’t know what will happen when we leave, anymore than we knew what would happen when we went in. For all we know, they might find those flowers to toss that everyones talking about.
This we agree on.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:08 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
I am not disagreeing that we need to leave. I am just saying that how we leave is importand in order to minimize the loss of life for bothe US forces and Iraqi citizens. We tried to leave in 2003 and got sucked back in and bogged down.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pmI am still looking at the CAP plan. Were is the extraction of the Marines they leave in the Kurdish area? What is the course if there is an escalation in violence against our troops while in egress? What is the “fudge factor†as soon as shamal season hits? What do we do if there are hurricanes that prevent of damage shipping? If a Unit in the Kurdish area needs additional support, what it the TOS (time on station) for the strike fighters coming out of the Gulf?
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
It’s entirely possible that sandstorms and hurricanes could cause delays – that’s a given. The bigger issue you cite is what to do with the Marines once they’re in Kurdistan. This is where the diplomatic part of the withdrawal has to come into play. We need to be talking with Turkey, Iran, and Syria while we’re withdrawing. If we can refocus the PKK from a military to a political force, we can keep Turkey and Iran from invading and turning the north into just as much of a mess as the south.
As for an escalation of violence along the Tampa route, it’s a possibility, but who will be behind it? The Mehdi army is on hiatus, and they want us out badly. IAI wants us out. The Badr brigades and ISI might start something, if only to keep us from leaving. Again, during the 10-12 months (personally, I say 18) of drawdown we need to also be working towards political solutions, bringing the Sadrists and the Sunni walkouts back to the GOI.
And we need to give up on the hydrocarbon law and let Iraq nationalize its oil for a while.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:18 pmLook at a map, Bahrain is impractical.
I have. And its not impractical. In fact, Cheney recommeneded it at one time.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:29 pmRisking the troops lives in order to save the troops? Sounds like fu(king for virginity to me.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Really? As opposed to ensuring they will keep getting killed by staying?
I am not saying do it dangerously. I am saying that there is an inherint risk with any withdrawal. We knew that when we decided to occupy the place. Using that risk as an excuse for not leaving (which I am not accusing you of) is not valid.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pmI am not disagreeing that we need to leave. I am just saying that how we leave is importand in order to minimize the loss of life for bothe US forces and Iraqi citizens.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
I couldn’t agree more.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:33 pmWe tried to leave in 2003 and got sucked back in and bogged down.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Oh yea? And when was that? What date exactly was that pullout order given?
August 29th, 2007 at 3:34 pmBahrain is 620 miles to Baghdad. A distance that can be covered in a few hours if we need to return to add support to the Iraqi army. Bahrain is a good location for redeployment, especially if the Kurds don’t want us in Kuwait.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:41 pmComment by toasterhead — August 29, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
Nice post. I give you extra point or naming the MSR.
——————————————————————————————
Oh yea? And when was that? What date exactly was that pullout order given?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
I spent June-October 2003 at Camp Fox, Kuwait as part of a Special Purpose Marine Air Ground Task Force (SPMAGTF) who’s purpose was to move all of the Marine Corps Assets out of Iraq and the Theater of Operations. Army units were doing the same. Our only interest was supposed to be helping the Iraqis with reconstruction.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pmBahrain is 620 miles to Baghdad. A distance that can be covered in a few hours if we need to return to add support to the Iraqi army. Bahrain is a good location for redeployment, especially if the Kurds don’t want us in Kuwait.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Ok, I thought you meant re-deployment as in an area to stage for deployment back to CONUS. I did not know you meant to redeploy TO Bahrain, like a “fall back” position.
August 29th, 2007 at 3:50 pmBahrain is 620 miles to Baghdad. A distance that can be covered in a few hours if we need to return to add support to the Iraqi army. Bahrain is a good location for redeployment, especially if the Kurds don’t want us in Kuwait.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Bahrain’s a good place to unload some equipment that’s choking up the ports in Kuwait, but you still have to get the gear there. And any equipment and vehicles would have to be cleaned before they leave port in either Iraq or Kuwait. I doubt the Bahrainis want any Iraqi foot-and-mouth disease entering their country.
Nice post. I give you extra point or naming the MSR.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
Thanks! (It was in the CAP report…)
August 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pmAs for support to Marines in the Kurdish region, what about Incirlik AB? I know Turkey didn’t want us using it for the initial invasion, but do you think they would allow us to use it to support Marines functioning essentially as peacekeepers in northern Iraq? Yes, it puts us in the awkward position of taking both sides in a regional conflict, but that’s nothing new…
August 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pmoh my… i took a break around the #100 post… jumped in to post #187…
then back to pick up where i left off … and there’s BARTLEBEE and hackerbob in a pissing match! … am i ever glad they got that figured out!
yes, bartlebee, i can also vouch for hackerbob…
whew!
August 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pmand, bob, i asked weeks ago, but didn’t see a reply…
August 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pmnow that it’s out there (where you are located) -
HOW DO YOU LIKE OUR SUMMERS HERE IN THE CENTRAL STATES???
EH??? HOT AND HUMID ENOUGH FOR YA?
or could it BE worse than lejeune/carolina?
i just quit doing augusts… not worth the effort…
ugh…
Iraq is landlocked, hostile, and full of germs. Any planning to extricate ourselves will be a “best guess estimate”. We are fools not to be seriously making plans for our exit, despite Bush’s rhetoric.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:23 pmWhat we can do….is knock down the notion of a “Precipitous withdrawal” . The is republican political straw man rhetoric, and they need to be called on it. Especially the GOP presidential candidates.
What we can do….is knock down the notion of a “Precipitous withdrawal†. The is republican political straw man rhetoric, and they need to be called on it. Especially the GOP presidential candidates.
Comment by Badger — August 29, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Agreed. Though Iraq is not actually landlocked. They have a teeny bit of coastlne at the mouth of the Euphrates.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:25 pmOK mostly landlocked.. Who drew the borders anyhow??? looks like something the british would come up with.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:28 pmI spent June-October 2003 at Camp Fox, Kuwait as part of a Special Purpose Marine Air Ground Task Force (SPMAGTF) who’s purpose was to move all of the Marine Corps Assets out of Iraq and the Theater of Operations. Army units were doing the same. Our only interest was supposed to be helping the Iraqis with reconstruction.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
Thats great, but I didn’t ask you any of that.
I asked for the date that the pullout order was given.
I am not surprised by your answer however, since everyone knows no pullout order was ever given, and per the White House, never intended.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:40 pmI asked you when
and there’s BARTLEBEE and hackerbob in a pissing match! … am i ever glad they got that figured out!
yes, bartlebee, i can also vouch for hackerbob…
Comment by katy — August 29, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
After the last few months of “disguis-o-trolls” I made the mistake of assuming this guy was one of the legion. We emailed each other however and I have since recanted.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:43 pmJudging from the board, I’d say almost everyone except for the far right wingnuts, are for pulling the troops out, and bringing them home in as safe and sensible a manner as possible.
I think everyones pretty much on that page.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:52 pmComment by katy — August 29, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
I did not mean to dismiss your question. My apologies.
I think that Mo. summers are as bad as NC. My wife thinks that the sun seems more intense here, but NC has worse humidity and mosquitos.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:59 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — August 29, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Can I give a specific date? No. I just know the mission that was in front of us.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:01 pmOh NO!!!
You mean they published a map showing Al Kidda how to follow us home?!?!?!
We’re doomed.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:45 pm“Opponents of a sensible Iraq withdrawal strategy have tried to argue that a redeployment is unfeasible either because it will be occur too quickly or because it will take too long.”
Anyone who has studied management 101 would be able to organise a safe witdrawal of the troops in 3 months.
Any talk along the lines “we can’t do it” is a confession of unintelligence.
But I’m not sure they should be withdrawn. What would happen to Iraqis?
August 29th, 2007 at 7:40 pmCan I give a specific date? No. I just know the mission that was in front of us.
Comment by hacker bob — August 29, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
Sorry Sarge, but that dog won’t hunt.
If your mission was to “pull out”, then who gave the order? Where was it recorded? Because none of us civies heard nothing about any pullout in 2003. And that revelation that eluded every news channel, newspaper, imbedded journalist, stateside journalist and press release for the last 4 years.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:13 pmWhat would happen to Iraqis?
Comment by Martin Gifford — August 29, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
I think the real question is what would happen to the Sunnis, and the other smaller sects. The Iraqi army has 250,000 men who have been trained by the US for the last 4 years. And they have our weapons, and not just the ones we wanted them to have. But the Iraqi army is mostly made up of Shiites. (you might say the Iraqi army is full of shiite). That means that the smaller sects are going to suffer, while the Shiites massacre them with our weapons, and the tactics we taught them.
:|
Great work if you can get it.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:18 pmYou mean they published a map showing Al Kidda how to follow us home?!?!?!
We’re doomed.
Comment by Bruno Hauptmann — August 29, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
Yup. And we’re really in trouble once they build some boats.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:20 pmGood plan and one wishes that the current administration would agree to follow a good plan for a change. But if the US pull all its troops out of Iraq and leaves all its equipment behind won’t that mean that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and you’ll have to start the whole thing over again!!!
Also there’s a thread in this “discussion” (which appears to have degenerated into a lot of name calling and insult hurling – some of you need to read/re-read TP’s Terms of Use agreement) that’s been lost.
Comment #27 (quoting from the movie Aliens for you boobs who thought the writer was serious – sorry for the insult, joke, joke) should have suggested an alternative to the current stalemate. Just drop 100 or so Ripley/Alien clones (from Alien Resurrection) into Iraq and let them take care of the problem. After all “President” Bush/Busch did refer to the need to prohibit cloning human-animal hybrids during his 2006 State of the Union speach so the government is obviously working on developing them.
Oh no that wouldn’t work either because after eliminating everybody in Iraq and the Middle East the Ripley/Alien clones would follow “us” back to the US. What was the name of the “evil” corporation that wanted to profit from “weaponizing” the alien – Haliburton, no Weyland-Yutani.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:06 pmThe question is, is democracy worth fighting for…at all?
September 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm