Commanders convey concern about troop strain to Bush.
By on Aug 31st, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Commanders convey concern about troop strain to Bush.
Today, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Defense Secretary Robert Gates spoke to President Bush about their growing conern of the “strain on troops and their families from long and repeated combat tours.” Currently, many U.S. soldiers are serving 15-month tours of duty with just 12 months at home.
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then bush asked rove if it was time for a potty break….
August 31st, 2007 at 6:37 pmBUSH IS IN FACT A MASS MURDERER
“Bush has discarded habeas corpus and the Geneva Conventions, justified torture and secret trials, damned critics as anti-American, and is responsible, according to Information Clearing House, for over one million deaths of Iraqi civilians, which puts Bush high on the list of mass murderers of all time. The vast majority of “kills” by the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan are civilians.
http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=11533
30/8/07
===
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered Since The U.S. Invaded Iraq 1,028,360
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
===
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In America’sWar On Iraq 3735
icasualties.org/oif/
Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq
$447,304,180,745
See the cost in your community
nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
A report last month found that US and NATO troops killed more Afghan civilians in the first half of this year than the Taliban.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:39 pmhttp://rawstory.com/news/2007/Report_US_NATO_troops_kill_more_0706.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-civilian6jul06,0,2604638,full.story?coll=la-home-center
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2007/afghanistan0407/5.htm#_Toc163022674
The Bushies and the so called Joint Chiefs don’t care about the troops. Look how they are saying that the surge is working when it is a BIG ASS LIE.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:40 pmBush could care less about the troops. He skipped out so he wouldn’t have to protect the US. He was drunk all during college and his Daddy paid for his degree. CBS told the truth about Bush being drunk during his short stay in the Military so he really doesn’t know anything about what it’s like to be a soldier. To bad he can’t even ask his coward Vice President who hide behind his wife and his now famous 5 deferments.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:42 pmThe meeting concluded within five minutes — the upper limit of GDumbya’s attention span.
Everyone knew when the meeting ended as GDumbya said, “Git ‘er done. Now watch this drive.”
August 31st, 2007 at 6:49 pm“Unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.” His irresponible decisions/geo-politics have killed more innocent Iraqi civilians than Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda combined. Bush is the more prolific mass murderer of our time?
August 31st, 2007 at 6:49 pmAccording to U.S. government records, fewer than 100 National Guardsmen died in Vietnam, out of over 58,000 battle deaths. It’s simply the result of the fact that few were called up. The Guard was considered a safe place to be during the Vietnam War, the opposite situation of today.
http://www.archives.gov/research/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics.html
August 31st, 2007 at 6:51 pmMany of our troops will pay in pyschological anguish for the years of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld arrogant mismanagement.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:52 pmBush does not care > he wants Iraq’s OIL.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:53 pmI would like for all of you leftists to tone it down and be nicer to George W. Bush, your commander-in-chief.
He doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Another badly confused conservative. He’s not our commander in chief, CT, at least not those of us who are civilians. He is the CIC of the military. Do yourself a favor and take a Civics course.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:53 pmFu*k you and Bush.
ANd yes he does. His “You’re with us or against us” remark is what you fu*k heads took to be permission to trash Americans. So fu*k you traitor.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:58 pmWow, is P finally gonna get his GED? Good job!
August 31st, 2007 at 6:59 pmAnd it’s “fully American” to point out the truth that we are not succeeding in Iraq. I guess you just don’t understand that CT.
Oh by the way CT? Why is it that Bush has to rewrite the Petraeus report?
Is it “American” for the President to compile lies?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:00 pmand yet you pussy trolls have yet to enlist… better hurry, the big bad (favorite connie buzzword:) ISLAMOFACISTS are paddling their camels across the atlantic right now to KILL you and your families…. better hurry and enlist!
August 31st, 2007 at 7:01 pmBush has treated our military like a child plays with his toy soldiers; he doesn’t care if they get damaged, he just tosses them into a corner when it’s time for supper.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:02 pmCommon Dreams has reported there is a cholera out break in Iraq…..Shade’s of cowboy and indian’s I fear…..We know how that worked out….Blessings for us all to be free of the cancerious bush regime..
August 31st, 2007 at 7:03 pmComment by gummitch — August 31, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
You’re taking it much too literally. Nice try, but I’m not stupid.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
Words are important, and when you refer to the President as Commander in Chief you are not only inaccurate, but you are trying to bestow an honor that does not exist. It is extremely important that people know the difference because it is authoritarians who invoke “CIC”, as though the office of President has authority it does not have.
If you don’t wish to be perceived as stupid, try for accuracy.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:03 pmThat’s because telling the truth is the American thing to do!
Comment by Mr. President — August 31, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
Actually, Mr Pee, it’s the correct thing to do regardless of nationality. You should try it sometime, rather than posting your meaningless screeching.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:05 pmWords are important, and when you refer to the President as Commander in Chief you are not only inaccurate, but you are trying to bestow an honor that does not exist.
Actually he is the Commander and Chief for alot of us on this blog. Personal feelings aside that doesn’t change.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:08 pmHe doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Actually he does, through his actions. GWB has trashed the American public for over 6 years. He trashes the poor, the elderly & returning vets. The only people he is nice to & shows some respect to are those that are wealthy enough to be in a position to help GWB. He doesn’t give a shit about the average American or people of any other country. So we are showing GWB the same respect he shows the world. In fact we’re being much too kind as he still has all of his limbs, his children are healthy & happy and his parents don’t live in the streets.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:09 pmI would like for all of you leftists to tone it down and be nicer to George W. Bush, your commander-in-chief.
He doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.
Comment by CT_V1
Oh man. You got to be kidding, right? MY CIC? I think not. george couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag – or a scotch bottle. I am truly hoping you were kidding.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:11 pmAnd then Bush said, “too bad, so sad” and told them to get lost. Bush could care less what he is doing to our soldiers and their families. All he cares about is continuing this occupation as long as he can to enrich his friends and to hopefully be allowed to steal Iraq’s oil. Bush is a murderer, plain and simple. There is a special place in hell awaiting him.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:12 pmCIC, Because some of us said this at one point in our lives.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:14 pm“He doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.
Comment by CT_V1″
Why should we show him some respect. He has done nothing to earn it. As a matter of fact, he has done much to earn the scorn we feel for him. Try going back and reading post #2. I know it’s kind of long, but if you try really hard I think you can get through all the words. Then come back here and tell us all the wonderful things that Bush has done for this country to earn our respect.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:17 pmOur soldiers DESERVE the best. The best equipment, the best medical care but most of all the Best Leadership! They DESERVED a strategy that WORKED towards the goals they were told they were fighting for, the false story of bringing Democracy to Iraq is proven absolutely FALSE, they are now calling for the democratically elected official Maliki to be removed! So much for that lie. The biggest lie, that we went in there to protect the US from WMD shows even more dismal leadership. the Commander in Chief would not listen to even ONE General or Military advisor. Supporting our troops means DEMANDING that they are given a working strategy!!
August 31st, 2007 at 7:19 pmThese Neocon Rethugs don’t care HOW many American soldiers they kill and they are working them literally to DEATH.
Bush needs to RESIGN and the troops should all be withdrawn NOW. NO MORE WAR MONEY
“You’re taking it much too literally. Nice try, but I’m not stupid.
Comment by CT_V1″
Sorry, but there you are wrong. You are extremely stupid. You are just about the most stupid troll to ever post here. You are actually in a dead heat with Mr. Pee in stupidity. Keep it up and you may surpass him.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:19 pmI would like you to be nicer to me, Mr. Spudge.
I’m sure that if I saw you in person and you were to punch me in the face, I wouldn’t attempt to strike back. I may be unconscious, regardless, but I wouldn’t try to retaliate out of respect for a military veteran.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
And I would like for you people to stop making sh!t and talk about the topics at hand. But, I KNOW that you won’t so, I will not be any nicer. I have had it with you trolls. You wanna play nice, then give it a go. Otherwise, shut the fu*k up about me being nice to you.
If you want to have respect for a military veteran, then why don’t you try listening to one every now and then.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:21 pmOne can talk about his early days, but those days no longer exist as he is now the #1 man of our nation. That’s reality.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
There are a few realities you might want to consider. A) GWB is a shithead at best. He’s too good for war but insists that other continue to fight so he can feel like he won. The country has accepted that this war was ill-conceived & Iraqi polls show they’d like you to leave. He stays for personal reasons, not for America and B) Many posters here are not American and even if being President means something to you it sure all hell doesn’t mean anything to me. He’s just a terrorist, #1 serial killer, war criminal as far as I’m concerned. Maybe Inhofe can let GWB sit next to him next time he takes a flight, I like the potential.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:22 pmI love our mass murdering, liar in chief, and you lefties are dumb for not following him off the cliff that is coming up. Us righties are right because we think we are, no matter what the facts point to. Besides the million or so dead are just brown people, why should we care about them, brown people don’t count. And Bush supports our troops by giving them extra time to serve their country, deployment after redeployment.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:22 pmActually he is the Commander and Chief for alot of us on this blog. Personal feelings aside that doesn’t change.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
So you are active military? Otherwise, nope. You may want to think of him that way, but that doesn’t apply to anyone else but yourself. The separation between civilian and military is a critical component of the Republic.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:26 pm“Comment by Tom — August 31, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
We’ll, he is our President”
He may be your President, he isn’t mine. I have never recognized him as President and I never will. And he is not MY commander in chief and never will be.
I wonder how all those generals feel knowing that this pathetic human being has control over them and can tell them what to say and do. It’s no wonder that the military is losing officers at an unprecedented rate.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:26 pmTP should delete your projecting post, as it is a forbidden personal attack.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Beyond the hysterical irony of this comment, where is it “forbidden”?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:27 pm“TP should delete your projecting post, as it is a forbidden personal attack.”
Comment by CT_V1
It’s not a “personal attack,” as it’s true.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:27 pm“TP should delete your projecting post, as it is a forbidden personal attack.
Comment by CT_V1 “
Poor baby, you can dish it out but you sure can’t take it. Too bad, so sad.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:28 pmI’d like to wish all the nutters here at ThinkProgress a lovely Labor Day weekend.
Be thankful for your friends and family and don’t forget to pray for victory in the War.
See ya on Tuesday.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:28 pmBush Co and family have been selling America out for years and if that is not trash talking at the utmost nothing is. He has now killed 3735 of our military for oil and revenge for a threat for his dad. Our wounded military have to fight for medical care and benefits.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:30 pmBush has vowed to veto insurance for children, demolished our environment, just what would he have to do to convince some of you HE JUST DOESN’T CARE ABOUT AMERICA.
Comment by gummitch — August 31, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
Um no, I am a veteran, and as I said the oath above, it didn’t have a time frame I said at the end (And to my knowledge any one who said it had a time frame clause). If Hillary is President in 2008 then guess what she is the Commander and Chief.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:30 pmLike we don’t think your nuckin futz a$$ will be here for the rest of the night and tomorrow all the way through Tuesday.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:31 pmComment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
Don’t forget, Ringo, if it wasn’t for liberals there wouldn’t be any Labor Day weekend. Or Labor Day. Be sure to thank the union organizers that gave their lives for you.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:33 pmTundra, you are aware that george did in fact, disobey a lawful order,( flight physical,) would you care to comment on that for starters?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:35 pmUm no, I am a veteran, and as I said the oath above, it didn’t have a time frame I said at the end (And to my knowledge any one who said it had a time frame clause). If Hillary is President in 2008 then guess what she is the Commander and Chief.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
It doesn’t matter whether you want to think of yourself that way, we are governed by a system of laws. The President is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. Once you are no longer a member of the Armed Forces (and not in the Reserves, which I suspect you would have mentioned), he is not your CIC regardless of what you want to believe or pretend.
Unless you re-enlist, Hillary will never be your Commander in Chief.
Here’s an interesting note, though, from the Marine Corps Dictionary:
Ah, at least we don’t have to call him Caesar.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:40 pmLike we don’t think your nuckin futz a$$ will be here for the rest of the night and tomorrow all the way through Tuesday.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
——————————————–
Unlike you Spudgie, I have a life.
I only visit this site during the week days while I’m at work.
Maybe you should try giving your 24/7 rage a rest for a few days as well, you might feel better.
Dasvidanya.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:40 pmThanks Mr President.
Have a good one.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:41 pmComment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
Did Ringo forget to thank the labor organizers? Wow, that was inconsiderate.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:41 pm“A personal attack is a personal attack, regardless of whether you consider it to be true or false. You can’t redefine something by the minute as you see fit.”
Comment by CT_V1
The demonstrable truth IS a defense against charges of slander and libel. You’re the one trying to redefine the meaning of libel.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:41 pmThat’s right only we righties are true Americans, lefties aren’t. We righties are getting the government we want and deserve, we like borrowing our selves into the poor house, we absolutely love death and destruction, it makes us all a flutter. Everytime I see a bomb go off on the evening news I have a orgasim. You lefties should wake up and smell the willy pete.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:43 pmTundra, you are aware that george did in fact, disobey a lawful order,( flight physical,) would you care to comment on that for starters?
Comment by freder421 — August 31, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
Sure,
I will obey the orders of the President of the United States
I don’t see alot of grey area that says “Only if I like him/her”, or “If he/she does what I think they should do”
August 31st, 2007 at 7:43 pmDon’t forget, Ringo, if it wasn’t for liberals there wouldn’t be any Labor Day weekend. Or Labor Day. Be sure to thank the union organizers that gave their lives for you.
Comment by gummitch
August 31st, 2007 at 7:44 pm————————————–
Do not forget that without rich capitalists there would be no jobs.
Unlike you Spudgie, I have a life.
I only visit this site during the week days while I’m at work.
Maybe you should try giving your 24/7 rage a rest for a few days as well, you might feel better.
Dasvidanya.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
Be sure and thank the labor organizers, Ringo. They lay the groundwork that meant you could spend your work hours blogging instead of doing your job.
Hooray for the liberals!
August 31st, 2007 at 7:44 pmI’m sure the Commander Guy listened real careful. Sheeeat. The report’s been done for over a week. It says what the chimp wants it to say.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:45 pm892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
Any person subject to this chapter who–
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct
Tundra that is from the ucmj, take the phyiscal george, bottom line, if you can’t follow orders, how can you give them?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:47 pmHooray for the liberals!
Comment by gummitch — August 31, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Yay!!
August 31st, 2007 at 7:47 pm“Be thankful for your friends and family and don’t forget to pray for victory in the War.
See ya on Tuesday.
Comment by Ringo”
Since there can be no “victory” when it comes to an Occupation, I will pray for our brave men and women who are in that hell hole and pray for the families who will lose a loved one.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:48 pm933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct
Second violation by george Tundra
August 31st, 2007 at 7:50 pm“If Hillary is President in 2008 then guess what she is the Commander and Chief.
Comment by Tundra “
Will she be YOUR Commander and Chief? And you are correct, she would be the Commander and Chief over the military, not over civilians.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:50 pmCT_V1: “I would like for all of you leftists to tone it down and be nicer to George W. Bush, your commander-in-chief.
He doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.”
Yes, I’m sure you were deeply troubled when people were calling Clinton a murderer and a rapist. And, I’m sure that when Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, John Edwards or Bill Richardson assumes the office in 2009, you’ll just be full of respect.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:51 pmComment by freder421 — August 31, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
Regardless of my personal feelings for the man, I said something. Sure you may be able to say “Hey, I can get out of this because”. I don’t.
He has never given me an order, and I am pretty sure he or any future president ever will. But it doesn’t change the fact that I said I would follow any given to me by the president of the United States.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:51 pm“Poor baby, you should be banned. TP no longer needs your services.
Comment by CT_V1″
Wow, looks like I hit a nerve. The truth hurts, doesn’t it.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:51 pm934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
Third violation Tundra by george Tundra
August 31st, 2007 at 7:52 pmWill she be YOUR Commander and Chief?
Yes
August 31st, 2007 at 7:52 pmThanks Mr P for keeping the economy strong and keeping unemployment low.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:54 pmRingo: “I only visit this site during the week days while I’m at work.”
I’m sure your boss would be happy to hear about that.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:54 pmLets dicuss Tundra the facts, question, was george grounded or not?
He was grounded Tundra for disobeying a lawful order, I gave you the articles from the ucmj.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:54 pmRet. Col Jack Ripper,
Sir, would you please weigh in on the discussion I am having with Freder please. I value your opinion.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:55 pmLets dicuss Tundra the facts, question, was george grounded or not?
What Facts do you want to debate. I haven’t denied a single thing you have said. I did say I would follow orders by the president of the United States.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:56 pmWill she be YOUR Commander and Chief?
Yes
Comment by Tundra
If YOUR Commander and Chief gave you an order to drop a nuclear bomb on Canada, would you do it?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:57 pmIf YOUR Commander and Chief gave you an order to drop a nuclear bomb on Canada, would you do it?
Yes
August 31st, 2007 at 8:00 pmIf YOUR Commander and Chief gave you an order to drop a nuclear bomb on Canada, would you do it?
Yes
Comment by Tundra
You are a pathetic excuse of a human being if you would kill millions of people just because the person who holds the office of President tells you to. You would have made a very good Nazi.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:03 pmI assume that you are a adult Tundra, you posted the oath that we take as soldiers or service members. As a former NCO of the United States Army, I tell you Tundra, you cannot lead, by do as I say not as I do. Ask the Col., notice Tundra that george has lost the trust of the troops, it is coming out slowy. If you can’t follow orders you cannot lead Tundra, that is the fact I want to dicuss.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:03 pmYes I would love to hear from ret col jack the ripper
August 31st, 2007 at 8:04 pmWell, while the toll’s play around with loving a black hearted, dry drunk, druggie and bowing to this self proclamed, illegal presidency, no matter what this old woman follow’s the law’s of the land and bow’s to no man or woman….BTW all the administration is suposto be our employees, to bad the corruption has removed what should be and replaced it with pure evil neocon’s…..Blessings
August 31st, 2007 at 8:05 pmThe President is the Commander in Chief of the military. He is not a leader of civilians, he is a representative for civilians. In a representative republic, we elect representatives, not leaders. It may sound like splitting hairs, but it’s an important distinction.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:06 pmI did say I would follow orders by the president of the United States.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
But you’re no longer in the military, and no longer bound to follow orders given by a president.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:10 pmYou are a pathetic excuse of a human being if you would kill millions of people just because the person who holds the office of President tells you to.
It’s called being a soldier. You follow orders. You don’t question them you do them. When questioned later you tell the truth. I was Infantry and things may be a little different than some other MOS’s. The reason these rules are on place are quite simple.
Officer/NCO: “Take that hill”
Soldier: “Why, but you got an Article 15 because you didn’t follow orders once, I don’t have to listen to you”
Officer/NCO: “Cover Bravo team”
August 31st, 2007 at 8:10 pmSoldier: “But who are the people we may be shooting at? Are they true enemies or are they just protecting their way of life, perhaps we should have dialog with them sir. As a matter of fact I demand to know everything you know about this situation before I do anything”
“I would like for all of you leftists to tone it down and be nicer to George W. Bush, your commander-in-chief.
He doesn’t talk trash about all of you 24/7. Try to show the same respect.
Comment by CT_V1″
I’m sure this has already been said, but it can’t be said enough: nobody cares what you “would Like”. We’re all sure it involves a meeting in a public bathroom, you repbulican pervert.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:11 pmI’m sorry, Tundra. I only just now realized you were asking for my opinion on this Bush thing. That’s very kind of you to say you value my opinion. Thank you. I believe the evidence shows that Bush refused to take a physical. That IS, unfortunately, failure to follow an order from a superior. Let’s keep in mind that this was the “champaign squad” and was filled with people from “connected” families, so it’s not hard to understand why he didn’t get in trouble for this, but they did strip him of his right to fly over this matter. I have always thought that this and the fact that he was technically AWOL from his duty in Alabama, but still received an honorable discharge were simply indicative of the fact that he has led a life of priviledge. At the time, his grandfather was a former Senator and his father was in Congress.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:15 pmI thought soldiers were only required to follow lawful orders.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:16 pmCT: “That’s true, but couldn’t these same civilians be drafted!??!
”
Yes, of course, and if they are in the military, then the President is, technically their Commander in Chief. As civilians, though, he is the representative of all citizens in the country.
Keep in mind that at the time of the signing of the constitution, most of the Framers didn’t even think we should have a standing army in times of peace.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:17 pmEarth to Tundra, stop with the bs, do you remember the unit from South Carolina, that refused to deliver some fuel, because they said it had water in it? I think it was a reserve unit from York, SC, they did get article 15’s. It was about 3 years ago, that was mutiny. So Tundra be an adult and stop with the denial.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:21 pmActually sir, I guess the question I am looking for help on is:
Is there a time limit on the Oath of Enlistment? If not, is whatever sitting president the CIC of veterans?
Based on:
August 31st, 2007 at 8:22 pm“I will obey the orders of the President of the United States”
Tone down our critical thought’s and speech for the worst president in the history of our country.?…With my every breath and up to my last I will alway’s point out and expose this evil black hearted dumbass…He is hated around the world and at home for his war on Iraq and America…..There will be dancing in the street’s the day he and his evil companion’s are gone….Blessings to all but the troll’s.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:22 pmthey did get article 15’s. It was about 3 years ago, that was mutiny.
So based on your stance they should never be followed by anyone, because they broke rules they cannot lead ever?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:24 pmSo you give george, Tundra a pass on obeying the orders of the president, you cannot have it both ways. How many died, when george disobeyed that lawful order? I am done with you Tundra, you make no sense, you came to Think Progress, a site that tells the truth, and give us make believe.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:26 pm“Is there a time limit on the Oath of Enlistment? If not, is whatever sitting president the CIC of veterans?
Based on:
“I will obey the orders of the President of the United Statesâ€
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 8:22 pm”
YES…. It’s called a DD214 (Discharge)
Once you are no longer obligated to the military through your contract, then you no longer owe the President anything.
The Vet is just as much of a Civilian as YOU!!! Do YOU have to obey an order from the President????
August 31st, 2007 at 8:27 pmYes that is what I am saying Tundra, you are slow. And the facts back me up.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:29 pmComment by RemoveBush — August 31, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
Actually I would be the vet in question.
Ok starting over, When saying the following there is not a date stamp said at the end.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:30 pmTundra,
You only took that oath because of your military enlistment. Your enlistment had an end date. I admire your ability to respect this president, but I don’t think you continue to be bound by the oath. You are a private citizen.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:35 pmTundra, the DD214 has a separation date, that absolves you of further military obligations. How can you follow the orders of officers appointed over you in civilian life? Who would those officers be?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:38 pmI admire your ability to respect this president,
I respect the Office of the President of the United States.
How can you follow the orders of officers appointed over you in civilian life?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:42 pmIf there are none, then I would not receive any orders. I would still be following my oath.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
The CIC calls the constitution a goddamn piece of paper, why are you not defending the constitution?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:43 pmLet me ask this question, if gw bush, called for a draft, would anyone answer?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:49 pmLet me ask this question, if gw bush, called for a draft, would anyone answer? Comment by freder421 — August 31, 2007
Yes, I registered for a draft around 1978 when called to do so.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:55 pmTundra – I still can’t get over the fact that you would kill millions of people just because whomever is in the white house told you to. What if the person in the white house was insane? Don’t you have a personal moral code. Wouldn’t your moral code cause you to question “why should I drop a nuclear bomb on Canada…what have they ever done to us”? Apparently you put your loyalty to the President above any moral code and even above your humanity. As I said before, you would have made an excellent Nazi.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pmIf there are none, then I would not receive any orders. I would still be following my oath.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Follow whatever you like, I guess. I thought you were asking a technical question about the breadth of the enlistment oath, not a personal choice question. If that’s how you view your oath, then you are certainly entitled to it.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:09 pmWhy should Bush worry his pretty little mind over the hardships of the troops. They are seeing a different part of the world and killing people. They never could have done this without Georgie’s father-like guidance.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:10 pmComment by bilbogaggins — August 31, 2007 @ 9:01 pm
Ok, let’s check your moral compass.
You are on patrol in Haiti because your commander and chief sent you there. While on patrol you come to a small village where they are stoning a woman. Your linguist informs your squad that it was because she disrespected her husband. You call the incident in to the command center.
You are informed by your superiors that you are to stand down, because it is acceptable in that area and you would start an international incident by getting involved. Your rules of engagement are clear and your orders are clear.
What is it you do?
August 31st, 2007 at 9:10 pmComment by dlet — August 31, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Indeed. Remember, a 3.5% pay raise is going to be vetoed. Because 3% is sufficient. Yes, he cares.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:17 pm“Actually I would be the vet in question.
Ok starting over, When saying the following there is not a date stamp said at the end.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 8:30 pm”
Yes there is……..
It’s called a DD214!!!!!
Though, most Vet’s, including myself, respect the Oath through their lifetime. There is a DIFFERENCE between respecting it and being OBLIGATED to it.
The only part of that oath that I feel any obligation to is the part that says to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic”.
Other than that, my loyalty to that oath was over after my service was completed.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:23 pmComment by troqua — August 31, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
A reduced pay raise and an increase of a tour of duty from 12 months to 15 months. Still not enough armor and we are supplying the enemy with weapons that we can’t trace. Too bad the armed forces aren’t unionized.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:24 pm“What is it you do?
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 9:10 pm”
As an ENLISTED man/woman you “stand down”! However, as a CIVILIAN if you see this YOU DO WHAT YOU CAN!!!!!! You have NO OBLIGATION TO LISTEN TO ANYTHING THIS BOZO SAYS…….
If YOU as a CIVILIAN want to have the death of someone on your hands, that you could have saved, then that’s on you….
Especially since YOU do not have to listen to anyone in the WH for ANYTHING!
I don’t understand why you would place that much loyalty in a person who has shown utter disdain for the military and Americans?????
What respect should he be given???? Just him being the president is not enough. Respect is EARNED not just GIVEN.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:31 pmRemove Bush, thank you for your post’s…..Blessings
August 31st, 2007 at 9:35 pmTundra, you keep calling Bush “commander and chief” but the proper term is “commander in chief”. I think the term you use says a lot about your thinking processes. You really believe that he is your lord and master, your infallible leader. I feel sorry for you, you got a rude awakening coming, a real reality check, if we survive this moron!
August 31st, 2007 at 9:39 pm“What is it you do?
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007
The commander in chief is attacking the constitution. That what you took an oath to protect. You took an oath to protect the constitution NOT the CIC.
Respect is earned and not given!!
August 31st, 2007 at 9:49 pmNixon ended the draft in 1973, what country were you drafted in number 109? Check out the Cairns commision report. Tell us, what they said, and tundra keeps coming up with they call the ticking time bomb.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pmTundra you live in the world of make believe. Us service members present and pass live by the code of conduct. What you describe is against the code of conduct.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:56 pmTundra, if a american patrol came upon that scene you describe, in Hati, then that would mean that american law would apply. Marital law, please stop being childish. The make believe world of the neo cons is over Tundra.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:02 pmIn other words, Tundra, the words of Bill Kristol, Fred Kagean and the like have no meaning in the world today. What was your MOS, Tundra, mine was 21 Golf?
August 31st, 2007 at 10:05 pmSome like to call first, I call last
August 31st, 2007 at 10:23 pmRemoveBush does not deserve any respect. He has not earned it.
He’s a whack out 9/11conspiracy nutter, Truther, KOS “Screw Them” BOZO.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:24 pmStill not enough armor and we are supplying the enemy with weapons that we can’t trace…
Dems held up the armor and funding” Ask Them DEMS”
They are killing are troops.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:26 pmIts “Fully American” for CT_V1 and the rest of the Trolls to act like idiots.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:34 pmI believe we, the USA have created the fear from other countries due to our length of presents in the middle east and deaths, resulting in this mountain of chaos. It’s not too late to work it out. Silence is not golden. Get the word heard, peace will bring unity. Is unity a mission at all or who comes out first?
August 31st, 2007 at 10:54 pmAnd yes those troops do want to come home. They have been gone from their homes too long! When they come home they ride their bikes fast like no tomorrow. The sport their cars like the Indy 500. They shop till they drop. They were happy! They had their families to visit, they went to disney world! They want to come home to see their babies and better halfs.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:58 pmWhat makes me wonder is how two 12 month and tours and 9 months into an 18 month tour can be crammed into a 47 month period with two ‘12 month’ home rests. That is the experience of a neighbor. The new math is cramming 57 months into 47. The pity of it all is that his now exwife had to file for devorce in order to avoid absorbing the debts of his now failed but formally successful business.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:22 pmActually he is the Commander and Chief for alot of us on this blog. Personal feelings aside that doesn’t change.
Comment by Tundra — August 31, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
he’s CIC for active duty military
September 1st, 2007 at 12:13 amDo not forget that without rich capitalists there would be no jobs.
Comment by Bob — August 31, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
withput rich capitalists there would be thousands more better jobs. you have a 3-year-old’s understanding of how the world works. there is no need for rich capitalists; they are nothing but wastrels and sinkholes.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:14 amWhat the story doesn’t tell us is Bush’s reaction to Gates and the JCS. I’ll bet the little deserter just pulled down on his lower eyelid and asked if anyone could see one ounce of give a frack in his eye.
Had Bush actually served his military term as others had, he would have known about these things. BUt instead, he was too busy partying, helping out with political campaigns, and got an early out so he could get his MBA.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:13 amSo when Bush has to withdraw troops (by next April), will he call himself a Cut-n-Runner?
September 1st, 2007 at 2:23 amCould Bush be charged with “Dereliction of Duty”, Article 92, or any other violation of the Uniform Code Of Military Justice? Does Bush, when he’s acting as CIC, fall under the UCMJ ? Everyone else, from 5 Star Generals/ Admirals to Privates come under the Code,why not Gunga Din Bush?
September 1st, 2007 at 8:05 am> and don’t forget to pray for victory in the War.
Is it ironic if someone prays to god for victory in Iraq and allah ends up winning….
“No law shall contradict islam…” yes, boys thats the idea you want our troops to die for …
September 1st, 2007 at 10:07 amLooks like oficials who are heavily invested in this war are looking for a way out. Despite efforts to shift the goal posts on what constitutes “winning” in Iraq, a significant block of the war supporters are quaking . . . how can they get out without appearing to “flipflop” or exhibiting a “cut and run” mentality. Better to save American soldiers’ lives and limbs than to stand on implausable platitudes and falicies.
Get us out. It’s the only honorable, humanitarian solution.
It’s a religious, civil war. We cannot win. “Win” is word-speak for saving face. We cannot save face. We have lost. The best we can do is to get out and admit that where ethnic and religous differences divide a courtry that does not share our ethnicity and religious history, they must sort out their differences on their own.
It’s a loss for our country’s self image, not one our politicians has any right to fight. It’s a lesson for our leaders. Keep your fight to enemies that you understand. . . . otherwise, you are the enemy, to both your own people and to the people that you have so wrecklessly targeted.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:46 pm