U.S. Military Censors ThinkProgress
U.S. Military Censors ThinkProgress
ThinkProgress is now banned from the U.S. military network in Baghdad.
Recently, an avid ThinkProgress reader — a U.S. soldier serving his second tour in Iraq — wrote to us and said that he can no longer access ThinkProgress.org. The error message he received:
The ban began sometime shortly after Aug. 22, when Ret. Maj. Gen. John Batiste was our guest blogger on ThinkProgress. He posted an op-ed that was strongly critical of the President’s policies and advocated a “responsible and deliberate redeployment from Iraq.” Previously, both the Wall Street Journal and Washington Times had rejected the piece. An excerpt:
It is disappointing that so many elected representatives of my [Republican] party continue to blindly support the administration rather than doing what is in the best interests of our country. Traditionally, my party has maintained a conservative view on questions regarding our Armed Forces. For example, we commit our military only when absolutely necessary. [...]
The only way to stabilize Iraq and allow our military to rearm and refit for the long fight ahead is to begin a responsible and deliberate redeployment from Iraq and replace the troops with far less expensive and much more effective resources–those of diplomacy and the critical work of political reconciliation and economic recovery. In other words, when it comes to Iraq, it’s time for conservatives to once again be conservative.
Not surprisingly, both the National Review and Fox News are still accessible.
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Must have somthing to do with that low moral.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:56 pmWelcome to the Chinese Internet.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:57 pmwho wants to bet free republic doesn't have any problem reaching the troops?
August 31st, 2007 at 2:58 pmUnamerican and facist. Simply a disgrace. Why should we believe any poll taken to show opinions in the military when they are not subject to the same information as ordinary American citizens?
August 31st, 2007 at 2:58 pmWar is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. After 911 Bush said that the terrorists hate us for our freedom. Apparently, the only way to win is for Bush to take away our freedoms so that the terrorists cannont hate us for them any longer. Seig Heil Bush!!!
W = America's new swastika
August 31st, 2007 at 2:59 pmIt could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America's enemies.
August 31st, 2007 at 2:59 pmCan't let the troops seek the truth or think for themselves.
You're right, Ringo. This is the kind of thing that adds to that low morale. Treating the troops like they're stupid. But I'm sure you support that.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:00 pm"who wants to bet free republic doesn’t have any problem reaching the troops?
Comment by CD — August 31, 2007 @ 2:58 pm"
Or RedState????
August 31st, 2007 at 3:00 pmMust have somthing to do with that low moral.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
You've got that right!! Lots of evidence of low morals and propaganda these days!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:00 pmTP is bad for the morale of soldiers in the field. Never reporting ANY military achievements, TP's agenda is opposing this President and military policy, distorts the ENTIRE picture. Politics is a "power game" - and TP does it very well. But according TP, our military is just marching backwards with NO accomplishments - - but "You Support the Troops", right????
August 31st, 2007 at 3:00 pmCan’t let the troops seek the truth or think for themselves.
Comment by troqua
-----------------------------------
TP is pure Leftist propaganda.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:01 pmSo much for freedom of speech for our military.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:02 pmWe should all watch what we say on this website. One day in the not to distant future we will wake up in the middle of the night by stormtroopers and be led off to "re-education camps" for our unacceptable views. Think it can't happen?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:02 pmOr RedState????
Comment by RemoveBush — August 31, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
or any number of rightwing nut sites.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:02 pmOh no the mighty virus is here to lecture us about military matters.
I'm thinking that if I was stuck in the middle of a disastrous conflict that I might actually LIKE to hear about efforts to get me out! But that's just me.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:03 pmBut according TP, our military is just marching backwards with NO accomplishments - - but “You Support the Troopsâ€, right????
Comment by mighty aphrodite
PLease list all the accomplishments associated with specific goals stated by the President.
I think they are doing a good job just to function over there. They are not meant to do what they are being asked to do...whatever that is...
August 31st, 2007 at 3:03 pmMr. Bush, why do you hate the troops?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:03 pmSo much for freedom of speech for our military.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 31, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Aren't they over there DEFENDING OUR FREEDOMS? That's what they keep telling us anyway.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:04 pmIt would be interesting to know who is making the censoring decision. Where is it coming from? I mean Pace is talking about bringing troops back, Gate's is kept out of the inner circle. Who is in charge?
Could it be mad dog Cheney?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:04 pmIt could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America’s enemies.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Our Soldiers are not the enemy, Ringo!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:05 pmBTW - Some hard-Right sites have also been blocked. And Military bloggers have to have their posts reviewed.
This is all normal in a war zone, only in the past it was letters, magazines and radio broadcasts that were censored.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pmI sell Blue Coat technology. You can set filters on anything you want. Any organization has the right to censor what their members read. Especially if they are not paying for it. You can block under categories like Hate Web Sites, Gambling, etc. I think Think Progress would fall under the Wacko Websites by Left-Wing Conspiracist Nutjobs. It's a very small category.
Think Progress censors news like Hillary Clinton's shady connections with Norman Hsu. Not word one on the website after 3 full days. Kind of callling the tea pot black here aren't we?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pmGo to the source dlet Google, think, etc. Do not allow someone to think for you.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pm"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."
Voltaire
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:06 pmGEORGE ORWELL
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
fixed this for you:
It could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America’s Soldiers.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:07 pmTP is pure Leftist propaganda.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Why do you think the troops are not able to make their own choices? This seriously doesn't trouble you in the least?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:07 pm"It could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America’s enemies.
Comment by Ringo "
Oh come on Ringo. Do you really think that "america's enemies" read TP? And if they did, they would be laughing their asses off about what this site has become, pretty much nothing but inane posting by moronic trolls and people who I believe to be intelligent playing with the trolls.
If I was an alien and I logged on to this site, I would immediately decide not to bother with this planet because there is no reason to contact a planet full of 12 year olds. Because that's pretty much how most people on this blog act, like a 12 year old.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:07 pmSeems like the logical move when ramping up for an invasion. Isolate the soldier, feed him what you want to feed him and prepare him to attack Iran.
The military does have the right to limit information into it's ranks. I disagree with the radical right here but I see the rationale. I remember hearing a DI say "we (soldier's) will give up our freedoms so others may keep theirs." A soldier is govt. property so what did anyone expect from this administration. They are the injured beast trapped in a corner. This is when they are the most dangerous.
It's also why I will fight harder to end this conflict, expose this administration for the butchers that they are
August 31st, 2007 at 3:08 pmMargaret - If you were in the middle of a military conflict - IT would be disastrous. But TP highlights ONLY negative news from Iraq......hardly "fair and balanced"......
August 31st, 2007 at 3:08 pmIt's rather interesting to think that these soldiers are fighting and dying for democracy in Iraq... while the country that is sending them overseas to fight and die is denying them one of the pillars of a free society.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Bush
August 31st, 2007 at 3:08 pmWe should all watch what we say on this website. One day in the not to distant future we will wake up in the middle of the night by stormtroopers and be led off to “re-education camps†for our unacceptable views. Think it can’t happen?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:09 pm#15 - Margaret I totally agree, troops need to know that many of us are doing what we can to get them home.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:09 pmThe problem is, defense contractors need our military over there to protect the civilian workers. Why do you think we have so many bases built over there. Only marching in the streets will get our people back.
Ringo - National Review and Fox News is pure right-wing propaganda. Our troops deserve to hear ALL sides of the argument going on here, and judge for themselves. Frankly, they are in the best position to know the truth of how successful their efforts are over there, and WE need to hear more of their unfiltered comments. If the military is shutting down access to political/activist blogs and websites, what the hell are THEY so afraid of? And I'd like to know who, exactly, ordered this type of access shutdown.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:09 pmTP is as american as every other website in this country. TP has a right to voice it's opinions and it's valued by many as a place where voices other than the preapproved right can speak.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:09 pmBush-
August 31st, 2007 at 3:10 pmWe're censoring information over there so we can distort information over here.
Please pray for the troops.
Besides, after reading and responding to emails, how much time does one have in a 'war' zone to surf the net???
August 31st, 2007 at 3:10 pmCongratulations TP.
Now you know what it feels like to be banned.
Maybe you'll think about that next time you get ready to ban me again?
:D
August 31st, 2007 at 3:10 pmAnd meanwhile, each U.S. Marine was given a packet with a prayer book and tear-off pledge sheet to pledge their religious allegiance and asked to "Pray to George Bush".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/03/30/819685.htm
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pmComment by Ned — August 31, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
At least we'll all get to meet each other face to face.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pm"I think they are doing a good job just to function over there. They are not meant to do what they are being asked to do…whatever that is…
Comment by dlet "
That's the biggest problem affecting the morale of our troops today. They have no idea why they are in Iraq. They have no idea who the enemy really is. All they can do is concentrate on living from one day to the next. How would you like to wake up every morning not knowing if it would be your last, and not know why you are doing this.
And, please don't tell me that they are over there fighting "terrorists". A large majority of who they are fighting are insurgents, people who want us out of their country.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pmMighty Aphrodite:
I agree with everything you said about Think Communist except this statement. This website is not even a ripple in the ocean. It has very little effect. George Soros is wasting his money here thank God.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pmSo, m.a., if we all chipped in and sent you to Iraq------you would feel you were being "supported"?
There is no American military solution to this fiasco. How much evidence do you need?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pmJingo sez (emphasis mine):
Jingo speaks the truest words of the day...pity it was unintentional.
They'll revoke your troll license for certain for this, Jingo... ^_^
August 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pmThey did the same in 'Nam, opening packages from home & snooping.
They didn't want to 'politicize' the troops fighting a political war.
Hey W, getting kind of lonely up there by yourself?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:12 pmExcellent choice. This will help the military better defeat the enemy, rather than having a monkey on its back claiming they can do no right.
You've earned this, TP, never reporting the good that our troops are doing there. In effect, you have been bashing the troops.
Have some cheese with your whine.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:12 pm"NO accomplishments - - but “You Support the Troopsâ€, right????
Comment by mighty aphrodite"
3 of 18 goals were met.
Gonzo gone
Rove gone
Warner gone.
At least 3 accomplishemtns were met....not bad for one week.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:13 pmYou can't tell me that these 3 leaving doesn't Support the Troops!!!!!!!!
Let's see. The GAO report shows that the Iraqi government has failed ot meet benchmarks designed by the Bush administration. Violence is up in Iraq. Our troops are doing the best to keep themselves alive and keep Iraqi civilians alive. However, they are not trained for an insurgency/civil war.
It is possible to support the troops, to urge that they have adequate arms and armor, the best medical care and benefits, and still oppose a war based on either shoddy or cherrypicked intelligence. One can support the troops by portraying what is accurately happening and ask for a change in policy. Indeed, it seems thatthere are people who believe that supporting the troops is to support the policies of the administration without question. I failed to see the Republicans doing so in the wars in the Balkans when William Jefferson Clinton was president. Indeed, despite ethnic cleansing, rape, and murder, the cry from many on the Right was "No war for Monica." So, are people who are opposed to this war supposed to be silent and support censorship.
Also, reporting good news and bad news reflects reality. Thomas Jefferson said that democracy can only work for an informed citizenry. Yet we seem to have people who do not wish the troops to be informed, making me wonder if they agree with Thomas Jefferson's statement. To censor speech is usually a sign that someone is afraid of a message. I am one American who choses not to live in fear, nor do I with to see others silenced by those who fear free speech and informed citizens.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:14 pm# 28 - Do you really believe our military are so dumb they can't find lying conservative sites? Why like the Young Republican website manned by all those war loving young people who have "other priorities" but sure want others to bleed for them.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:15 pmNice. TP=DP...
August 31st, 2007 at 3:15 pm"But TP highlights ONLY negative news from Iraq……hardly “fair and balancedâ€â€¦â€¦
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:08 pm"
This IS NOT Fox News, where they MAKE UP the news.......
You may not like the TRUTH, but at least they are providing the TRUTH as best they can.........
You keep hiding under the covers with your hands over your ears yelling "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA"
August 31st, 2007 at 3:16 pmThey didn’t want to ‘politicize’ the troops fighting a political war.
Comment by Zimzone
No sh*t!
F*cking wingnuts know nothing but playing politics with everything, while claiming they're anti-government.
george W. bush and his supporters = H Y P O C R I T E S .
August 31st, 2007 at 3:16 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Good point. The troops in the field probably don't believe this to be groundbreaking. Thinkprogress.org thinks too much of its presence on the web, but in reality it doesn't hold a candle to the viewership of militarycorruption.com (NOT a loony-lefty website, may I add).
August 31st, 2007 at 3:16 pmCT_V1 sez:
Oh, yes...either that, or it will drive even more soldiers to suicide, because they believe (thanks to the government-controlled flow of information), that they are being abandoned to die for a country whose citizens don't give a shit about them.
Real nice, CT. Compassionate conservatism at its very best.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:16 pmNed, you've posted twice now a "warning" about watching what we say on this website. If you want to live in fear, knock yourself out. The reason we are in so much trouble in this country right now is because the fear card has been played endlessly since 911, and too many people have bought into it. I'm not one of them.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:17 pmGot proof of that? Which ones?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:17 pmIs anyone sure they can reach Right Wing Blogs like Redstate, or is it a bunch of assumptions based on zero fact?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:17 pmI heard TP has called Jane Fonda, Rosie O'Donnell and Sean Penn to strategize different ways to indoctrinate the sleeping populace since they've been banned from the view of the military. I heard George Soros is hopping mad and is now giving money directly to N. Korea and Iran. He needs more people to launder his money since Norman Hsu and the Paw families scheme has been uncovered.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:17 pm"I think Think Progress would fall under the Wacko Websites by Left-Wing Conspiracist Nutjobs. It’s a very small category."
So what. I think Faux News falls into the catagory of Neo-Facist Right-Wing Propaganda Nutjobs. Why support only one side?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:18 pmI'm always amazed at how easily the righties embrace such utterly un-American policies. We see who the true enemies of the American way of life are. Those who would applaud censorship of reading materials for the very people who are supposedly fighting to protect freedom of thought and discourse disgust me.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:18 pmMaybe the military looked at all the excuses being given for not signing up by conservative trolls on these message threads while urging our troops to keep dying in a hellhole that they thought THAT was bad for troop morale.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pmAll right wingers here who are supporting the censoring of TP should at least take note and offer a word of thanks that they aren't censored here.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pmWouldn't want the military to learn the truth about how badly they are being used.
Oh, wait, they already know. Too late.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pmct-v1 sounds like someone is forcing our soldiers to read TP. They aren't, it's called "freedom".
liberalismisdead sounds like he thinks he knows more about Iraq than Maj. Gen. John Batiste.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:20 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Ever come to grips that your posts say a whole lot of nothing?
Do yourself a favor and don't address me. It's not American of me to associate with leftist, communist, and posturing scum of the highest degree. Other posters, they're fine compared to you.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:20 pmYou tell 'em, Auntie Mighty Aphrodite!
Them soldiers participating in Our Glorious Leader's Great and Noble Cause shouldn't be reading progressive blogs. They should be out there KILLING! KILL! KILL KILL KILL!!
'Cause you and the rest of the Stateside Battalion just don't have the time to do it.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:20 pmThe greatest accomplishment would be Bush and Cheney leaving, today. Do the election this year, before the electronic machines can be rigged.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:20 pmWhat if they access the site through an anonymous IP site? Like Anonymouse?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:21 pm"Margaret - If you were in the middle of a military conflict - IT would be disastrous. But TP highlights ONLY negative news from Iraq……hardly “fair and balancedâ€â€¦â€¦
Comment by mighty aphrodite"
The using your rationale, the military should block Faux Noise from the military because they report only faux "positive news" from Iraq.....hardly "fair and balanced".
August 31st, 2007 at 3:22 pmSounds like the military is very, very afraid of websites that have a problem with the chymp. Very sad. Perhaps a sister site can be set up to shadow...??? ThankProfess???
August 31st, 2007 at 3:22 pm"I heard TP has called Jane Fonda, Rosie O’Donnell and Sean Penn to strategize different ways to indoctrinate the sleeping populace since they’ve been banned from the view of the military. I heard George Soros is hopping mad and is now giving money directly to N. Korea and Iran. He needs more people to launder his money since Norman Hsu and the Paw families scheme has been uncovered."
Either provide some links to these accusations or admit you're a lying sack or jesusshit.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:22 pmliberalismisdead sounds like he thinks he knows more about Iraq than Maj. Gen. John Batiste.
Comment by Keith — August 31, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
liberismisdead doesn't even know the most rudimentary history, military or otherwise.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:23 pm"Comment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Ever come to grips that your posts say a whole lot of nothing?
Do yourself a favor and don’t address me. It’s not American of me to associate with leftist, communist, and posturing scum of the highest degree. Other posters, they’re fine compared to you.
Comment by CT_V1"
Keep it up TripMaster, you've struck a nerve!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:24 pmAccording to the graphic provided by TP, it says the category "Political/Activist Groups; Blogs/Newsgroups" are being blocked. That should cover the wingnut blog sites as well. The trolls can get all snarky about TP being leftist propaganda, but it appears the filter affects all blog sites, so we can't take it personally or assume a bias on the part of the military.
It's a pity though -- it means that we won't get to hear the POV of the soldiers fighting over there.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:25 pmYou know if the soliders were not reading TP, then no one would have noticed the ban.
So for those of you cheering on this ban, keep in mind, you're cheering on the taking away of the soldiers right to read what they choose to read.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:25 pmWelcome to fascist America - where 160,000 Citizens! dont have a right to view news as it is reported.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:26 pmHas anyone noticed that since the first two incidents of fragging, we haven't heard of any other issues of the troops killing their commanding officers? There were a couple officers killed at that first one. years ago now. The military has effectively imprisoned our soldiers in a world they can't escape, and prevents them from communicating to the world over here. They write all that does get here. Correspondents are now, .... well, Michael Ware? Are there any more?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:26 pmsounds unlike our old country
I wonder if any of these same spineless gutter tripes (aka Trolls) could point out factually inaccurate information provided on this website.
Anyone of you nameless pissants care to show some evidence? Or are you comfortable with spreading fear without fact?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:26 pmPoll of our troops in Iraq February 2006 showed 72% thought all troops should be out by Feb. 2007. Nearly 90% had the false belief that Iraq was responsible for 9/11.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
August 31st, 2007 at 3:26 pmTo those who are anti-TP,
Has TP ever posted anything that was not true? There may be isolated incidents. Or do you just not like the FACTS that are being brought into the light by TP?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:26 pmThe timing is a bit suspect considering that it was just a week ago that Ret. Maj. Gen. John Batiste's post appeared here.
And might virus you're right about one thing - it would be disastrous if I was in a military conflict. But only disastrous for me because I'm sure I'd get killed in no time. No stomach for violence at all.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pm"It’s not American of me to associate with leftist, communist, and posturing scum of the highest degree. Other posters, they’re fine compared to you.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:20 pm"
YOU are CLEARLY not a TRUE American........
I remember something like "..... Justice for all", and "United States"......
Not Republican justice, and Republican states!!!
Even though I find you to be the enemy against the Constitution, sadly you are still an American for the moment......
That is the problem with you Right Wing NUTS!!!!! YOU think this country is YOURS and ONLY YOURS!!!!!!!
Sorry chump, but this VET says OTHERWISE!!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pmthe taking away of the soldiers right to read what they choose to read.
EXACTLY!
Bush looks down on EVERYONE, treats the troops like checkers, and will take away their basic rights faster tha-
August 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pmThinkprogress.org logic: Without our cutesy presence on any base and in any war, the, um, U.S. definitely definitely definitely loses.
Thinkprogress.org has a fine staff of political drama-queens.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pmCT_V1 sez:
That's your opinion. Given the opinions of most other people here, it would appear that your opinion is wrong. Come to grips with that.
Oh dear...am I on your 'ignore list' now?
You listen to me, you sniveling little toady. If you don't want me to address you, you're free to leave. But if you insist on posting your jingoistic bullshit here, I'm going to slap you down every day of the week. Count on it.
Clearly, you and I have a very different opinion of what is and what is not American, you goosestepping slime.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:29 pmLOL the Pentagon is scared of TP and the posts on the threads now.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:29 pmWingnuts are "loss-fixated" because they are so good at failing.
HECKUVA JOB, LOSERS!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:29 pmGo away CT_V1, we're all unamerican here, by your standard. Which means we're real Americans, not neofacist chickenhawk cowards.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:29 pmThey are desperate, and it won't work.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:29 pmI wonder if posts that mysteriously vanish are deleted by the Pentagon?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:30 pmComment by Bobwurst — August 31, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Sure, given the fact that you leftists shouldn't reside in this patriotic country, it'll strike anyone's nerve that people like yourself live here.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:30 pm#40 - Liberalismisdead - Leftards subscribe to the illusion that stateless enemies can be reasoned with. TP's delusions of importance overlook the fact that terror cells are alive and well in the US and the rest of the West - and progs contribute to the safe haven of our enemies.
When I last heard from my brother on July 27th, (he is an active duty Navy aviator) he was pleased with the efforts of the surge. Increased Iraqi intelligence has been beneficial for planners of the surge....not that you would know it from reading TP.....
Keep up the good fight!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:31 pmComment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
I think YOU are a drama queen
August 31st, 2007 at 3:31 pmwhat an honor to be called a Political/Activists - Our work is paying off then
I wonder what reaction i will get tommoro with my "troops Out" teashirt
August 31st, 2007 at 3:31 pmComment by Bobwurst — August 31, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Sure, given the fact that you leftists shouldn’t reside in this patriotic country, it’ll strike anyone’s nerve that people like yourself live here.
Comment by CT_V1
Seig Heil! Isn't it time for you to sodomize your mother's corpse again?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:32 pmFighting for fascism at home and abroad... Your Bush crime family hard at work destroying freedom in the USA and The Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere...
August 31st, 2007 at 3:32 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
A survey of one. And the one is the brother of m.a.
Well, you certainly know more than Mr. Zogby and his company (sarcasm).
August 31st, 2007 at 3:32 pmwe must be all be on that pentagon database aswell -
if your on the database does that mean you dont get drafted
August 31st, 2007 at 3:32 pmRepublicans don't want returning troops to be on guard when they use the bathrooms in airports.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:34 pmI retired from the military in 2000. Every facility I went into was tuned to FAUX news....and this was pre-chimpy.
These banned sites do not surprise me in the least. I bet you a dollar to a donut they can access redstate dot com.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:34 pmComment by CT_V1
Seig Heil! Isn’t it time for you to sodomize your mother’s corpse again?
Comment by Bobwurst
yes CT_V1 used to be a necrophiliac till some rotten C*nt split on him
August 31st, 2007 at 3:35 pmwe must be all be on that pentagon database as well -
Comment by Tobey Tall
And the cowardly trolls here too!
BE AFRAID!! BE VERY, VERY AFRAID!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:35 pmSure, given the fact that you leftists shouldn’t reside in this patriotic country,
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
Who needs mighty virus's U.S. "terror cells" when we can just fight amongst ourselves? At the rate we're going, thanks to Bush and Rove and all of the other "uniters" we'll just have our our little civil war here in the U.S.!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:35 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
Perhaps, Mr. Monkey, you don't know how to follow instructions...
You are effectively banned, barging in where you don't belong. I'm not banned, so you are the actual outcast here. So yes, I'm perfectly within my right to ask you not to address me, as you are that outcast.
I really must have struck a nerve. Couldn't have happened to a dumber monkey. Keep rambling like the anarchist, uninvited lefty you are.
Now run along, as TP instructed you to do long ago.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:36 pmI just wish Jeff Gannon Guckert the gay male escort which the Secret Service says entered the White House 196 times from 2004 to 2005 would give his opinion.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:36 pmMargaret - If you were in the middle of a military conflict - IT would be disastrous. But TP highlights ONLY negative news from Iraq……hardly “fair and balancedâ€â€¦â€¦
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
When exactly has TP ever purported to be "fair and balanced" , mighty hermaphrodite ?
And what in the hell makes you an expert on what is appropriate for those in the middle of a military conflict ?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:37 pmYou're a descendent of Patton's or MacArthur's ?
Remember Bagdad Bob? So.....Rush replaces him-and has an equally firm grip on reality. Our very own Tokyo Rose. Imagine what the average American would do if some country arbitrarily decided to put little boots out of our misery. That might be the one thing to save his sorry excuse of a self for the histoy books. This county has been blown to hell, it is in a civil war and all the bullshit in the world will not put it together again. The Iraqi people must do this for themselves. If they are waiting on the wisdom of W or the diplomatic skills of Condi, or the courage of Chickenhawk in Chief Cheney-God help them. Trolls are so funny-our fundamental freedoms themselves set down by the founding fathers only belong to sheep. Honesty and open debate=treason. Can't stand the heat, you don't belong in the kitchen.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:37 pmI’m at school right now, but I’ll be back to kick some leftist ass soon!!!
Comment by Mr. President — August 31, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Maybe the short bus will be on time today.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:37 pmI’m at school right now, but I’ll be back to kick some leftist ass soon!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Yeah, Right!! /snark
August 31st, 2007 at 3:37 pmToo bad you chickened out showing at the boxing ring, Dr Dog, err Mr Pee-pants. bahahahahahaha
Keith quotes an 18 month old poll by Arab sympathizer James Zogby and expects anyone to be impressed.....nice try.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:38 pmNot one of the blowhard chickenhawks have even attempted to show there are any untrue subjects within TP.
Not one can show any evidence to even support their twisted side.
Thanks TP for continuing to push for the Truth.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pmI guess the military doesn't read the trolls who post here. Instead of banning TP, they should have requested the personal information on the trolls so they could be recruited to serve in the illegal war conducted ( I use that term loosely) by the administration they love so much.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pmThere is success I tell you....lots of it.....somewhere.....here let me list all the success going on in Iraq.....( ) ( ) & ( ).
See just look at all that success.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pmSome of the comments here are reminding me of quotes from two great writers.
That man is little to be envied whose patriotism would not gain force upon the plain of Marathon, or whose piety would not grow warmer among the ruins of Iona.
- Samuel Johnson, Journey to the Western Islands (1775), Inch Kenneth
Some claim a place in the list of patriots, by an acrimonious and unremitting opposition to the court. This mark is by no means infallible. Patriotism is not necessarily included in rebellion. A man may hate his king, yet not love his country. - Samuel Johnson, The Patriot (1774)
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, The Live of Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775, p. 253.
“In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first.â€â€”Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary, at entry for patriotism, The Collected Writings of Ambrose Bierce, p. 323
August 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pmGood Morning Vietnam!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pmMilitary's Information War Is Vast and Often Secretive
By JEFF GERTH
"The media center in Fayetteville, N.C., would be the envy of any global communications company ...
"The center is not part of a news organization, but a military operation, and those writers and producers are soldiers. The 1,200-strong psychological operations unit based at Fort Bragg turns out what its officers call "truthful messages" to support the United States government's objectives, though its commander acknowledges that those stories are one-sided and their American sponsorship is hidden.
"We call our stuff information and the enemy's propaganda," said Col. Jack N. Summe, then the commander of the Fourth Psychological Operations Group, during a tour in June. Even in the Pentagon, "some public affairs professionals see us unfavorably," and inaccurately, he said, as "lying, dirty tricksters."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/politics/11propaganda.html?pagewa
August 31st, 2007 at 3:40 pmInstead of deleting lines coming off a telex machine they just block web sites.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:40 pmHey Bobwurst. Hate to ruin your idea that TP hasn't censored. Trolls are always getting censored and have to reinvent new screen names.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:40 pmSure, given the fact that you leftists shouldn’t reside in this patriotic country,
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
According to whom ?
Those that make up the most stupid minority to ever live here ?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:40 pmThe Chimpy Adoration Brigade ; where "patriotism" is those who believe unswervingly , the worst president in US history's every English-mangling speech filled with lies........
Comment by Mr. President — August 31, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Mr. President, good day!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see that in addition to your classes, you are taking on the development of two sites destined for world-wide viewing.
Keep at it, Mr. President. Now I'll read your newest site!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pmSo much for freedom of speech for our military.
Comment by bilbobaggins — August 31, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Freedom of speech is very limited for members of the military already, so why is this a surprize?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pmTP’s delusions of importance overlook the fact that terror cells are alive and well in the US...
Comment by mighty aphrodite
But Auntie Mighty Aphrodite! I thought the soldiers were fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here!?
Oh, now I remember! You and the rest of the Stateside Battalion are fighting the IslamoFascistHomoCommieHippieLiberals here!
Go get 'em, Auntie Mighty Aphrodite!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
Haven't seen this piece of sh!t traitor in a while.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pmSure, given the fact that you leftists shouldn’t reside in this patriotic country,
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
CT...you just quoted Hitler in the 30's and McCarthey in the 50's. Why do you repugs hate our freedoms so much you want to give them away?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pm"Pray to George Bush�/
Pray TO that bastard?
Chimpy thinks he;s God now
August 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pmOne way to look at the trolls, think how boring it would be if all 75% of Americans that want troops home were on this site. Got to have a few that would disagree just to disagree. Trolls love getting a rise out of anyone.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:42 pmApparently now TP doesn't think censorship is such a good idea - after all these months of deleting posts and banning people for telling the truth.
What goes around, comes around.
FREE SPEECH IS NOT NEGOTIABLE
August 31st, 2007 at 3:42 pmAt what point is Think Progress and all the other banned sites going to either file a lawsuit against the Department of Defense, or is going to demand Congress take a look at this issue? Don't you have an obligation to use your voice to allow our troops the same constitutional rights the rest of our citizens have?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:42 pmKeith quotes an 18 month old poll by Arab sympathizer James Zogby and expects anyone to be impressed…..nice try.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
Yeah , it is much more prudent to believe the worst president in US history who is a habitual liar , and who has been claiming for over 4 years how things are going great in Iraq......
August 31st, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by MCMetal — August 31, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Can you imagine what this country would be like if it was filled with just Bush-supporters?! Yikes! Sounds like the setting for a horror movie!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by ace — August 31, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
nail.on.head
August 31st, 2007 at 3:43 pmFreedom of speech is very limited for members of the military already, so why is this a surprize?
Comment by hacker bob — August 31, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Yes, keep in mind that this is our all volunteer slave army.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:43 pmS Korea criticised for hostage deal
Taliban received $2m for the release of 19 hostages, Japanese newspaper claims.
what a nice and caring goverment - your worth nothing being American or British
August 31st, 2007 at 3:43 pmFrankly, I prefer the trolls hang out here. At least they're off the streets and we're all much safer.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:44 pmWhen I last heard from my brother on July 27th, (he is an active duty Navy aviator) he was pleased with the efforts of the surge. Increased Iraqi intelligence has been beneficial for planners of the surge….not that you would know it from reading TP…..
Keep up the good fight!
Comment by mighty aphromethamphetamine — August 31, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
that's your proof of "positive news" in Iraq? A mythical communication from your mythical brother? All associated with your mythical life?
Dear hagette, although meth addicts do not suffer from hallucinations, it is common that they do have schizophrenic episodes. You, my dahlin', are constant schizo.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:44 pmMay I recommend a trip to your states Mental Health Program.
Zyprexa may be in tall order for you.
It could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America’s enemies.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Not intelligently, it couldn't.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:44 pmSay, any of you trolls seeking employment I heard there are several openings at George's house. Doesn't take a great resume either, just dollars or daddy's connections.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:44 pm"At the rate we’re going, thanks to Bush and Rove and all of the other “uniters†we’ll just have our our little civil war here in the U.S.!"
Comment by margaret
And with the number of lily-livered pacifists in your "camp" what do you think the outcome would be??
Seriously, I have a proposal. Lets' divide the country into Red and Blue. Lets allow people the opportunity to move to the region which best reflects their political and social philosophy. Let Blue States tax the hell out of themselves and Red Staters can go with a flat tax. We can be civil neighbours - I doubt we'll ever be allies. We will defend our border and should you suffer an attack you can lob marshmallows - daisies in rifle barrels will be a nice post-modern touch.....
August 31st, 2007 at 3:45 pmKeep at it, Mr. President. Now I’ll read your newest site!
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Simple pleasures for simple minds
August 31st, 2007 at 3:45 pmApparently now TP doesn’t think censorship is such a good idea - after all these months of deleting posts and banning people for telling the truth.
What goes around, comes around.
FREE SPEECH IS NOT NEGOTIABLE
Comment by ace — August 31, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
What the fu*k is wrong you you fu*king idiots.
THERE ISN'T ANYBODY DELETING ANYTHING AT THINK PROGRESS. IT IS A PIECE OF SOFTWARE YOU CAN'T SEEM TO FIGURE OUT. WHY IS IT THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS TELLING YOU TO GO FU*K YOURSELF MAKES IT THROUGH? BECAUSE I AM SMARTER THAN A STUPID PIECE OF SOFTWARE AND YOU AREN'T. MORONS.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:45 pmThink Progress censors news like Hillary Clinton’s shady connections with Norman Hsu. Not word one on the website after 3 full days. Kind of callling the tea pot black here aren’t we?
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
see, you dumb shit, that news you just delivered? Not censored. You are an idiot.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:45 pmThinkprogress.org = the monkey on the back of the U.S. Military
August 31st, 2007 at 3:46 pmKeith quotes an 18 month old poll by Arab sympathizer James Zogby and expects anyone to be impressed…..nice try.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
John Zogby is the pollster. James Zogby is president of the Arab American Institute.
Don't you people know anything?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:48 pmFeuding Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites meet at peace seminar in Finland
August 31st, 2007 at 3:48 pmRepresentatives of feuding Sunni and Shiite groups in Iraq were meeting at a seminar behind closed doors Friday to discuss ways of ending the bloodshed, conference organizers said.
Good
After months of banning me from responding to posters here that were using my Soldiers name as a moniker, disrespecting his service, his family, and his friends, I think that its just a case of Murphy's Law.
Banning those that have things to say that are relevant to a conversation, but allowing those who spew nothing but hatred on this site to continue posting is what TP has been about for months now.
So I have no sympathy.
Lets see if this gets thru.
RIP
August 31st, 2007 at 3:48 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
And with the number of lily-livered pacifists in your “camp†what do you think the outcome would be??
Seriously, I have a proposal. Lets’ divide the country into Red and Blue. Lets allow people the opportunity to move to the region which best reflects their political and social philosophy. Let Blue States tax the hell out of themselves and Red Staters can go with a flat tax. We can be civil neighbours - I doubt we’ll ever be allies. We will defend our border and should you suffer an attack you can lob marshmallows - daisies in rifle barrels will be a nice post-modern touch…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Where does an imbecile like yourself get the idea that those not insanely stupid like yourself that worship at the altar of the horseshit GOP , are "lily livered pacifists" ?
I got news for you , you ignorant skid mark ; there is no bigger bunch of pansies than the ones currently adorning the moniker "Repbulican".
August 31st, 2007 at 3:48 pmThey are all chickenshit chickenhawks , and would get their asses kicked by a Girl Scout troop
Freedom of speech is very limited for members of the military already, so why is this a surprize?
Comment by hacker bob — August 31, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Yes, keep in mind that this is our all volunteer slave army.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
so true, once you sign up, Uncle Sam owns you, lock stock and barrel, you are then US Government Property.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:49 pmmighty virus you really should seek help.
I was alluding to how divided we are and you just jumped right in like the eager beaver you are. Who would you spew your battery acid at if you only lived with violent people like yourself?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:49 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
You quote your brother and expect us to be impressed.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:50 pmFudgepacker Boy is living in a dream world. Maybe because you support TP???? Ever consider that numbnuts? Once you get tagged here, you have to change your screen name because it prevents you from posting. I used to be under the name "Eric" but can't anymore.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:50 pmThank you for correcting me, Troika! You will find that both John AND James very pro-Arab & Palestinian. (They are kind of like the male versions of Helen Thomas.)
August 31st, 2007 at 3:50 pmHey Hughjass...........TP censors it by not putting it as a story on this communist website. Are you really that stupid?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:51 pmNo wonder we can't do anything about the civil war in Iraq when the Bush/surge/insanity supporters have no idea how to bring people together. In fact they eschew dipolomacy so basically we screwed.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:52 pm"THERE ISN’T ANYBODY DELETING ANYTHING AT THINK PROGRESS. IT IS A PIECE OF SOFTWARE YOU CAN’T SEEM TO FIGURE OUT. WHY IS IT THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS TELLING YOU TO GO FU*K YOURSELF MAKES IT THROUGH? BECAUSE I AM SMARTER THAN A STUPID PIECE OF SOFTWARE AND YOU AREN’T. MORONS.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 31, 2007 @ 3:45 pm"
Spudge, if the posts are NOT making it to the thread then what do you call it????
Who cares if it is a SOFTWARE or a PERSON sitting there??????
If the posts are being sifted through and purged based on certain criteria, by DEFINITION that is CENSORING!
CALM DOWN!!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:53 pmCT_V1 sez:
Or, perhaps, I don't "take instructions" from subhuman slime such as yourself.
Wrong, loser. My ban was rescinded as of yesterday. Pity that that inconvenient little fact obviates your entire post.
From the tone of the posts here, it's plain to see which one of us is the 'outcast'.
I'm not going anywhere. If you can't handle me, I suggest you leave.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:53 pmAn old girlfriend serving in the Army in Iraq knows of the thinkprog anti-American defeatest (can't repeat what she really calls you). I just gave her the good news. "Good riddance" is the quote...minus the expletives. You liberal democrats sure know how to piss off the military. Keep it up! They can do without your "support".
August 31st, 2007 at 3:54 pmWe should all watch what we say on this website. One day in the not to distant future we will wake up in the middle of the night by stormtroopers and be led off to “re-education camps†for our unacceptable views. Think it can’t happen?
Comment by Ned — August 31, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
A little self-important, eh there, ned?
August 31st, 2007 at 3:54 pmmargaret, I said we'd be civil neighbours.....We would enjoy making jokes about you....all in good-natured fun.
BTW, you might want to use a pumice stone on those dirty, dry cracked heels showing from your Birkenstocks....soap and a lotion are miraculous.
Tooodles...........
August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pm#
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
You quote your brother and expect us to be impressed.
Comment by Keith — August 31, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
I don't believe she has a brother. She's been busted in so many lies, I'm
not sure why she bothers to post at all.
I do know that she is one freaky little thing. I saw the myspace page.
yikes.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pmBlue Coat Systems, Inc., founded in 1996, (NASDAQ: BCSI) is a publicly-held company based in Sunnyvale, California. Blue Coat secures Web communications and accelerates business applications across the distributed enterprise.
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August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pmArchitect of the Capitol
Armed Forces Information Service
Army Internet Café MWR
Army Operations Center
CENTCOM
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services
Central Intelligence Agency
etc.
ace sez:
Amen, brother. Either speech is free for all, or it's not really free at all.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pmBush/Cheney = the 800 pound gorilla on the back of the U.S. Military.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pm"Leftards subscribe to the illusion that stateless enemies can be reasoned with."
And wingnuts believe stateless enemies can be dealt with by attacking states.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:55 pm#
An old girlfriend serving in the Army in Iraq knows of the thinkprog anti-American defeatest (can’t repeat what she really calls you). I just gave her the good news. “Good riddance†is the quote…minus the expletives. You liberal democrats sure know how to piss off the military. Keep it up! They can do without your “supportâ€.
Comment by steed — August 31, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Liar.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pmAnd meanwhile, each U.S. Marine was given a packet with a prayer book and tear-off pledge sheet to pledge their religious allegiance and asked to “Pray to George Bushâ€.
http://www.abc.net.au/ news/ stories/ 2003/ 03/ 30/ 819685.htm
Comment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — August 31, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Ha! This was one of the prayers they were supposed to say:
"Pray that the President and his advisers will seek God and his wisdom daily and not rely on their own understanding".
Looks like that prayer fell on deaf ears.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pmLOL the trolls have "other Priorities" much like Deadeye dick and Clueless George.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pmTP should not be barred for troops after all its only news with viewpoints
what the pentagon should do is grey out any Submit button
or should run another site without " post - I agree" so the soldiers can see that were trying to get them out just like the Military Covenant says
August 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pmHEY!!!!! Remove Bush is back. How many others on this loony website are going to come out of the closet and admit they think 9/11 was an inside job? Remove Bush at least had the courage to admit he believes that. Any others have the courage to go public? I know more than half believe it. This is a concentration of conspiracists who believe the government is inherently corrupt. This is the black helicopter crowd. Yikes.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:57 pmUpright left - not important at all actually. It was just a thought.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:57 pmComment by steed — August 31, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Your "old girlfriend" sounds like she's a real lady! I can see why you keep in touch with her.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:58 pmJust Wonderful!
Bush has said numerous times that freedom is God's gift to mankind. Freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom to assemble are basic human rights, and guaranteed in our own Constitution.
We're told our troops are fighting and dying in an attempt to provide freedom to an oppressed people, and yet our troops are denied the same freedom.
The Washington Post reports this morning that propoganda disparaging Democratic lawmakers is being distributed to our troops and Iraqi officials prior to those lawmakers visiting the green zone in Bhagdad.
When will Bush realize that it is this very same divisive partisan facist propagandist crap that has lost him America's, Iraq's, and the worlds support and only further contributes to the DISGRACE that will be his legacy?!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 3:59 pm"so true, once you sign up, Uncle Sam owns you, lock stock and barrel, you are then US Government Property.
Comment by Wayne — August 31, 2007 @ 3:49 pm"
To a large degree this is very true. However, the only thing BINDING them is a contract......
If that contract is BROKEN by either party, then the contract if VOID AND NULL......
So, even though they may "own you", you did sign up by agreeing to serve and give your time and x-time, but the govt. also agreed to do certain things too......
As a Vet, I know just what it means to sign those pieces of papers but that does not mean that they "own" me.....
Trust me...... I was a major thorn in the side of my leadership because I knew what the law stated and knew just what they could and couldnot do to me.......
So your statement, though as I said is largely true, is not completely accurate.
August 31st, 2007 at 3:59 pmWow Don. Good research. We already discussed that earlier. I wish I could sell Blue Coat to the companies TP conspiracists on here work for so they could get their as*es fired from their jobs. But then they probably have government jobs where they can't get fired.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:00 pm#
HEY!!!!! Remove Bush is back. How many others on this loony website are going to come out of the closet and admit they think 9/11 was an inside job? Remove Bush at least had the courage to admit he believes that. Any others have the courage to go public? I know more than half believe it. This is a concentration of conspiracists who believe the government is inherently corrupt. This is the black helicopter crowd. Yikes.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
typed up like a true strong man blowhard, captain courageous.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:01 pmComment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — August 31, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Where does it say that troops were asked to pray TO Bush?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:01 pmSeriously, I have a proposal. Lets’ divide the country into Red and Blue. Lets allow people the opportunity to move to the region which best reflects their political and social philosophy. Let Blue States tax the hell out of themselves and Red Staters can go with a flat tax. We can be civil neighbours - I doubt we’ll ever be allies. We will defend our border and should you suffer an attack you can lob marshmallows - daisies in rifle barrels will be a nice post-modern touch…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Seriously, let's do that. Then we'll know where to find you, and we will come and get you, and you will do nothing, as you've done against the islamic "menace". Don't kid yourself, you'd get the shit kicked out of you in a matter of hours. You've proven your rank cowardice for the past 6 years, and your ignorance would not stand you in good stead. You wouldn't last a day.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:01 pmEveryone knows that the facts have a liberal bias, and must be stopped - it's the fair and balanced thing to do.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:02 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Wouldn't it be great if you installed your own system on your own computer and you couldn't access this site?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:02 pmYeah, take that Remove Bush, just because so many facts coming out that do suggest that they knew about it and let is happen doesn't mean they did. I'm stupid and will believe any lie Bush and Cheney tell me.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmAnd just because Bush sat there while it happened and kept on reading the wonder book, My Pet Goat, doesn't mean that he knew it was gonna happen, I mean just because his travel there was public knowledge and there was an airport near by does not mean that he was in danger in anyway.
Liberalismisdead
Free speech is free speech. Even our leaders understand they are governing the protections established by the US Constitution's Bill of Rights and one of the most golden is the First Amendment, the freedom of speech.
...And if they don't? F*uck 'em because they can't take a joke and there's good reason for them to be on the defensive.
Until the First amendment of the US Constitution is abrogated like the Fourth Amendment, I will exercise my right to speak.
Impeach Bush and Cheney!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmI actually like MA's idea. I think the thing she overlooked, is that the "Blue" states oddly enough tend to be the economic engines that run this country. By jettisoning the "red" states we could at the very least reduce significantly the amount of money going to them. Add to that the "red" states can take the billions of debt Bush has built up to pay for his ego and we are set.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmHate to burst your bubble Tobey. TP is not news.....it is pure, unadulterated indoctrination sifted out by lackey's being paid by George Soros. Nancy Pelosi has distanced herself from you whackos.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmLiberalismisdead sez:
Answer me one question, LID:
How do you account for the quantities of molten steel found in the basements of the Twin Towers and WTC 7 weeks after the collapses?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pm#
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Wouldn’t it be great if you installed your own system on your own computer and you couldn’t access this site?
Comment by Andouille Adam — August 31, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
That would take courage!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmHeyyyy! Liberalismisdead is back! How many other idiots out there believe Iraq was involved in 9/11, was an imminent threat to the US, had WMD, and was working with al Qaeda?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pmBTW, you might want to use a pumice stone on those dirty, dry cracked heels showing from your Birkenstocks….soap and a lotion are miraculous.
Comment by mighty virus — August 31, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
What are you doing looking at my feet? Down girl!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pmI wish I could sell Blue Coat to the companies TP conspiracists on here work for so they could get their as*es fired from their jobs. But then they probably have government jobs where they can’t get fired.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Wouldn't it be great if you installed your own system on your own computer and you could get your own a$$ fired from your own job?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pm#172 - "Trust me…… I was a major thorn in the side of my leadership because I knew what the law stated and knew just what they could and couldnot do to me……."
Remove Bush - The thunderous applause when you left the military wasn't excitement displayed by Mom - your former 'brothers in arms" were cheering your departure!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pmHow about this...
F*ck supporting the troops.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pmRove says that history will be kind . . . well shut up.
As Rove and Bush miander into the sunset, loyal Americans are left faceless, without limbs or worse in grave yards. . . If you can't see it. you can forget it being the meme.
No, Bush is worse than Nixon. For Rove to compare Bush to Rosevelt, Eisenhower and Truman is the rank falsehood that he has been selling to the American People for years. Bush = Nixon but worse.
As the archtect of this travesty, Rove is definitely vested. But Americans don't buy it. The rest of the world sees that the emperor has no clothes . . . Americans are not idiots. (A wide stance in a public restroom . . . . please?)
Coke-head dubya . . . I am apparently a peon . . . Brittany Spears makes almost $780,000 a month and America elected a pea-head for presidentare.Good thing you got her endorsement. I am relentless. Obsessive compulsive and all of that. As you ride into obscurity, I rise. I will not forget. Rove, you're an infant savant . . . essentially an idiot. Meanwhile, I'm a product of the public educational system, got admitted to schools that denied you entry, am a certified genius with a memory that doesn't quit and far more energy and time on my hands than your ego can snuff.
Hubba hubba . . . let the games begin.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:05 pmAn old girlfriend serving in the Army in Iraq knows of the thinkprog anti-American defeatest (can’t repeat what she really calls you). I just gave her the good news. “Good riddance†is the quote…minus the expletives. You liberal democrats sure know how to piss off the military. Keep it up! They can do without your “supportâ€.
Comment by 'sheed of da pistons! — August 31, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Hey, another mythical contact of a mythical relationship.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:06 pmHere, let me play:
My mistress, Halle Berry, told me that McCain wore diapers on his last visit to Iraq, and that most of the NeoCon soiled their pants upon hearing "loud pops".
Of course, she told me this only after we spent 2 full days in bed! ;-)
508 days left of this regime, well unless George's reader quits then he will have to just ride his bike everyday with his many Secret Service people to protect him. Oh, wait he will have Dick to ride with, Dick got a new pacemaker in July he is raring to ride.
Again, Bush believer's there are many openings for you to serve with your President. Sign up quick. Only 508 days left.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pmSo far I think I only count one new conspiracist coming out of the closet: TripMaster Monkey. Alp3......can't tell. Same with Keith. Come guys, simple yes or no. The rest are chicken.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pm#176 - "..... You’ve proven your rank cowardice for the past 6 years, and your ignorance would not stand you in good stead. You wouldn’t last a day." Comment by ronjazz
That's not what my last shooting range target said......besides, you'd have to put the bong down....
August 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pmHow about this…
F*ck supporting the troops.
Comment by Joe — August 31, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
Hey Mr. P! Look! Someone wrote something nasty about the troops on TP! Now you can go post on your blog about TP doesn't support the troops! GOGOGO!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pmTP, HuffPo, Kos etc....Are today's version of Tokyo Rose, only they're worse because they are based here in the US.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:08 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
A History Channel special debunked all of your crazy leftist theories. Watch that.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:08 pmHeyyyy! Liberalismisdead is back! How many other idiots out there believe Iraq was involved in 9/11, was an imminent threat to the US, had WMD, and was working with al Qaeda?
Comment by Keith — August 31, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
I DO I DO!! I heard Faux NoNooz interviewing one of the Saudi hijackers after the attack from the wreckage and he said he was sent by Saddam, so it must be true!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:08 pmThat’s not what my last shooting range target said……besides, you’d have to put the bong down….
Comment by methamphetamine aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
"shooting range target"? Is that what you call your "kneeling" negotiations to score more meth?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:09 pmDidn't Senator Martinez (R-FL) and three others say there was progress in Iraq as their plane had to dodge rocket fire leaving Baghdad Airport?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:09 pmTroops can't access ThinkProgress, and they are handed propagandist lies and misrepresentations about the Congressional reps who visit. But they can hear Rush Limbaloney and Faux "News", and they get to go to fundamentalist, evangelical vaudeville shows that hand out t-shirts promoting indescriminate killing of Muslims...
Despite this brainwashing effort, most military members recognized they have been used and abused by this administration. Each effort to deceive them will translate into more votes for the Democratic candidates in '08. The liars will reap what they sow, and the Republican party will fade into oblivion.
Heckuvajob, Dubya!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:09 pmDon't worry about idle threats Mighty Aphrodite. Most on here are conspiracist whackos with their lips tightly locked around the governments welfare nipple. They don't compete in Free Enterprise system so they want to tear it down and socialize.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:10 pmBob is so right, Bob knows all, listen to Bob, Bob believes in Bush, Bob will do what ever Bush wants, Bob will think what ever Bush wants him to think.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:10 pmThink Bob think, think real hard Bob, it's hard work.
If you don't tow the line like Bob you are a Traitor.
"Spudge, if the posts are NOT making it to the thread then what do you call it????"
I call it a fu*k filter, because that is what it is. A filter, not censorship. See, I am smart enough to still be able to type fu*k, I just have to use an asterisk. If people aren't smart enough to figure out a way to post without their post disappearing, then that is not being as smart as a piece of software.
The d!ckhead trolls getting banned has nothing to do with free speech. Hate speech is not covered by the Constitution. You are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater and you can't be a dumb fu*k on somebody else's private property, which TP is.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:10 pm"Remove Bush - The thunderous applause when you left the military wasn’t excitement displayed by Mom - your former ‘brothers in arms†were cheering your departure!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:04 pm"
Just because someone is a FREE THINKER does not mean that they cannot do their job as they agreed to!
Unlike YOUR chicken $hit self, I actually served and I would have fight besides all and any of my fellow soldiers regardless of their beliefs........
Something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!!!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:11 pmand they get to go to fundamentalist, evangelical vaudeville shows that hand out t-shirts promoting indescriminate killing of Muslims…
Comment by Emerald — August 31, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
got a link for this?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:11 pm#193 Actually I don't believe Cheney, Bush are competent enough to coordinate 9/11. Maybe if they hired expert help. But when a crime happens look at who benefits.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:12 pmCT_V1 sez:
Oh, so now you're responding to me again, CT?
yes,m I saw that pathetic hit piece. It would have been funny were it not so fscking tragic that the History Channel was selling its credibility down the river. Shameful.
I personally could demolish every 'debunking' offered in that ridiculous attempt to shore up the tottering official mythology of 9/11.
So, since you're so interested, CT, perhaps you can answer the question that LID seems to be ignoring:
How do you account for the quantities of molten steel found in the basements of the Twin Towers and WTC 7 weeks after the collapses?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pmA Troll's Life / Part 1
Yawn. Shit! 8:30 already? I missed my bus to the RNC again. Oh well, I guess I can just steal that old lady's car again; she won't notice anyway.
11:30: Yawn. Hmmm, let's see what the RNC wants me to say today...'Good, TP banned from military. Cool! I can't wait to post this crap.
12:30: Wow, time for lunch already. Mmm, can't wait for a Big Mac & Fries.
Gulp, Gulp, Gulp.
2:30: Yawn. Well, that was a good day's work. I think I made over $30 today. I'll have to tell Mom when she gets home from her 2nd shift.
4:30: Yawn. Wow, where does the time go? I better get down to the bowling alley before all the guys get there & practice; they kicked my butt last time. Of course, they're all athletes. I wish they'd quit calling me pizza face, but they sure are cute.
6:30: Thanks, Mom, that was good meatloaf. Well, I'm going to go to bed early, Mom, I've had a hard day fighting for America's freedoms.
6:45: CT! What are you doing up there, the bed's shaking! What? But you're alone, who could you be playing with? Peter? Who's that? A new friend? Well, bring him down here so I can meet him. What? He just left.
7:30: Yawn. I'm bored. Think I'll go down to the public restrooms and play footsie...
August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pmI glad they did, you guys are horrible for moral
August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pmHow can the military continue to brain wash the military if the truth is exposed? No way. It has to continue: We are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here.... We are fighting those responsible for 9/11..... If the majority of troops realized they were fighting for control of oil, Bush's Hydrocarbon Oil Law may be gone for good. Hide the truth, make believe Bush supports the troops, let the troops die thinking it is for their country and all will be well and good.
And I do hope this sociopathic evil criminal filthy F'ed up product of what one calls a human being = Bush, goes to hell.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pmtexaslady sez:
Exactly. Cui Bono..."who gains"?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pmWrong, loser. My ban was rescinded as of yesterday. Pity that that inconvenient little fact obviates your entire post.
Comment by Mr. Monkey
Really? You've been posting prior to yesterday, so it's a little hard to believe that one. You'll need to prove that, such as providing the email from the TP staff notifying you of your supposed release.
If you can't, you're still barging in without an invitation.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:14 pmHearst owns The History Channel and Popular Mechanics. Hearst cheerled us into the Spanish-American War based on a lie. Remember the Maine.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:15 pmComment by Zimzone — August 31, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
*applause*
August 31st, 2007 at 4:15 pmI glad they did, you guys are horrible for moral
Comment by cindy — August 31, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Goodie. Another intellectual heavyweight from the right.
Is that you, Dana?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:16 pmOf course any of the trolls here saying a blog hurts troop moral are just proving that they have never served, because when you are IN the military a blog is the last thing on your mind. You are more focused on not dying. Because being dead or seeing your friend die is the greatest moral killer on the planet.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:17 pmDon’t worry about idle threats Mighty Aphrodite. Most on here are conspiracist whackos with their lips tightly locked around the governments welfare nipple. They don’t compete in Free Enterprise system so they want to tear it down and socialize.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
You have proof of this, of course, because you disapprove of misinformation. So, apparently, you have employment records for "most" of the people commenting here.
But it's odd, because the commenters who spend the most time on TP, and clearly do not have actual jobs, are the trolls. So, either they're independently wealthy or they're on the dole (or living in mom's basement).
What are the odds? Be specific.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:17 pmTripMaster Monkey is the King Conspiracist so far on TP. I thought RemoveBush had you beat. It's so weird to actually see one living and writing. I never really believed people like you exist but now we have two on this website that outright tell you they believe in that crap. I'm convinced more than half on here believe them, they are just too chicken to come out. Certifiable nutcase is a hard moniker to erase.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:17 pmCT_V1 sez:
Oh, so now you're ignoring me again? Make up your damned mind, CT.
And no, I have no need to prove anything to the likes of you. "Come to grips" with that.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:17 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
The History Channel is an official entity, an official source of credible information. You're just a propaganda humper who wants something to have happened just so you can bask in political gain. That's shameful.
Get over it, Monkey. You have no credibility, especially over the tried and true professionals who assembled that documentary.
Stop embarrasing yourself.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:18 pmAs more and more freedoms are being taken away from Americans, it becomes more and more obvious that the "terrorists" have won. Bring the troops home now.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:18 pmThat’s not what my last shooting range target said……besides, you’d have to put the bong down….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
You think I'm going to stand still like your paper target while you reload your Daisy Red Rider air rifle? You truly are as stupid as you seem. funny how you can't muster up the courage and patriotism to use your "skills" in Iraq.
Like I said, you won't last a day.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:19 pmDon't get too fired up dubya. Put the glock away, I'm also a tree huggin animal lover that likes to see bees swarming a shrug, not AK47s.
FYI
Always be on the lookout for those IED's . . . they can do a body proud. (word-speak, ya know)
August 31st, 2007 at 4:19 pm"The History Channel is an official entity, an official source of credible information."
Hmmmmm. That is either public television, which real consevatives hate or it is propaganda. Which is it?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:20 pmI was going to post a comment, but the tolls have been fed enough for one day.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:21 pmWow! cindy must be a right-wing "intellectual".
August 31st, 2007 at 4:21 pmCertifiable nutcase is a hard moniker to erase.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
You should know, whacko. You're a member of a small, ignorant minority that still believes the lies of Bushco. says it all about you, coward.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:21 pmComment by Liberalismisdead — August 31, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
So many words, and yet not one regarding my perfectly legitimate question regarding the molten steel found at Ground Zero.
You'd think if I was such a "nut", you'd have some sort of plausible explanation for this question (not to mention the hundreds of others).
But we never see even an attempt at rational debate from you "defenders of the faith', do we? just ridicule and insults, because you have nothing else to offer.
sad.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:21 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Isn't your doctrine all about providing the supporting evidence? You won't expect out of others what you can't provide yourself, so stop asking out of others. Prove your reinstatement, or else it's a lie.
More blubber from Mr. Monkey. It comes natural.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:21 pmWhat I don't understand, is why those who oppose TP's viewpoints waste their time posting comments here. You know deep down that it's ineffective, so why spend so much time doing it? It's like listening to a playground of bickering elementary school children.
Doesn't anyone read the hatred they write and feel the least bit ashamed, whether you're on the "right" or "left"? Isn't it common sense that this much negative energy is purely unhealthy and serves no constructive purpose?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:22 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — August 31, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
What the hell are you talking about?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:22 pmCT_V1 sez:
I can't help but notice that you have not answered my question, either. Isn't that interesting?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pmIf you can’t, you’re still barging in without an invitation.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
I trust you'll be saying the same to Mr Pee and Dr Dog.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pmIf you can’t, you’re still barging in without an invitation.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
says the useless traitor. Go suck on Craig, that's your job description.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pm#231 - Alex it is just a game for the name callers. They don't really want to discuss an issue and doubt if they even have strong beliefs. It is a way to avoid doing their homework, or dull job.
An intelligent fact driven comment is beyond them.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pmwhy is it that the Manchurian Candidate comes to mind?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pmBig hug going out to all of our soldiers.
We love you and want you home! :>)
August 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pm"...with their lips tightly locked around the governments welfare nipple."
Comment by Liberalismisdead
You are toooo funny!!
*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
August 31st, 2007 at 4:26 pmPlease list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Science only requires proof by evidence not proof by opinion. They can lie and lie all they want... and yet there is a very good reason why news anchors, citizens, fire fighters, cops, WTC employees, demolitions and explosives experts and many others all within the span of two or three days said... there were many many explosions... and the buildings came down just like they do with demolitioned...
There is a very good reason for it... because many explosions plus a "pancaked" implosion all points to only one thing known to man...
Their opinions mean nothing. Opinions and faith doesnt invalidate evidence.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:27 pmWell, I have to skate...gotta get home and take my best girl out for dinner and a movie. ^_^
RemoveBush, ace, ronjazz, Spudge_Boy, gummitch, troqua, and all the other fine TPers I failed to mention: always a pleasure.
CT_V1, LiberalismIsDead, mighty aphrodite, and all the other mouthbreathing neocon apologist trolls I failed to mention: always a pleasure (making you squirm).
Later, all! I'll be back sometime tomorrow afternoon.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:27 pmComment by Emerald — August 31, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
Still looking for the link to your claim....
August 31st, 2007 at 4:27 pm*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
Please list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
A war started by lies has ZERO positive accomplishments... just like RAPE...
August 31st, 2007 at 4:27 pmMore blubber from Mr. Monkey. It comes natural.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
jesus, p, can't you settle on one of your twisted personalities? you have n o creibility here, no matter what stupid bullshit meaningless handle you make up. you're not even an American, you're just a loser who cheerleads the death of the troops you too scared to support. your game is trite and boring, and you bring nothing but the stench of your piss-soaked panties to this discussion. buy a dog, or make an appointment with larry craig or some other republican pervert.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:27 pmNew Jersey Democrats to give away, return Hsu donations
By TOM HESTER Jr. The Associated Press
CAMDEN, N.J. - Gov. Jon S. Corzine, U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg and the New Jersey Democratic Party plan to donate to charity and return money given to them by a top Democratic fundraiser who had been wanted as a fugitive in California.
Corzine and Lautenberg each received $1,000 from Norman Hsu, a New York apparel executive who turned himself in Friday to face a grand theft charge. A warrant was issued for his arrest after he skipped sentencing for a 1991 grand theft charge.
The state Democratic Party has received $49,000 from Hsu since 2005.
Corzine received the money from Norman Hsu in June 2005, when Corzine was a U.S. senator then running for governor.
Corzine said he hasn't decided which charity will get the money.
"I'm just sort of getting caught up on the issue," said Corzine, who returned Thursday from a weeklong vacation in France
August 31st, 2007 at 4:29 pmReality =
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
August 31st, 2007 at 4:31 pmHave a good evening, TMM.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:31 pmPlease list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
why don't you? it would be much more appropriate, since you're convinced that we're winning. TP won't censor it, unlike FOX or any of your other fascist friends censoring anything that shows the truth of the Bush crime syndicate. Make that list, right now. Show us all of the "progress" for the people of Iraq, compared with their horrible plight pre-invasion. and, for extra credit, explain to us the great strebgth and wisdom of George Bush's failure to defend the USA on 9/11, or the anthrax attacks following, and show us your wisdom as to why Osama Bin Laden is still at large. Also, make a cogent argument justifying the off-the-books funding of the disaster In The Desert by the Deserter-In-Chief, and please include the esxplanation for the $9 billion in cash gone missing, and the 190,000 weapons.
we'll be right here..
August 31st, 2007 at 4:34 pmThe History Channel is an official entity, an official source of credible information.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Like the show they had a couple years back saying that LBJ had JFK killed?? Sounds like wingnut conspiracy to me.
You still haven't answered if you believe the conspiracies that Saddam was involved in 9/11, was an imminent threat to the US, had WMD in 2003, and was working with al Qaeda.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:34 pmHey, all you Trolls stay our of public restrooms this weekend, eh?
You already lost one Senator this week, so be careful out there!
Troll Motto: Only blow who you know!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:35 pmStart by signing up for Kindergarten, then go through high school, then follow that up with some college, then come back.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:37 pmHey Zooey. I feel sorry for CNN's Dana Bash. They have forced her to spend the past four days in Boise!! Sounds cruel to me. I've learned that not only do you have an Idahomo for Senator, but also a "C. Otter" for governor.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:38 pmAs I write this, "we love you and want you home," I'm faced with the reality that for many of us, this is a surreal situation. Me, in my own family, I have no-one serving. I am emotionally concerned about the wives, children, parents, husbands and families effected by this aweful disaster, but I am aware of the fact that people in my economic sphere are effected only by the benefits of the Halliburton contracts, the surge in oil prices and the tax cuts.
The loss in human capital, in moms, dads, husbands, fathers, etc. is largely not a factor in my own situatioin.
Then I read about GWB's decision not to touch down in NO in the aftermath of Katrina . . . and that that decision was dictated by Karl Rove, who felt that the pictures of black men stealing from stores would be enough to convince white racists to vote republican (it's a bit more complicated than that, but the bigoted mathmatical calculation is the same) - so you see blacks behaving badly (not to mention that they have no water, home or basic essentials necessary to maintian human life - these follks are dying and in their desparate attempts to salvage their own lives and those of their families, they are depicted as criminals, is in fact criminal.) Now, all of this coverage is uesed as grounds for a republican resuirgence in NO. Well, as a former NO resident and a member of the Human Race. Just say no!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:39 pmAs more and more freedoms are being taken away from Americans, it becomes more and more obvious that the “terrorists†have won. Bring the troops home now.
Comment by Why are Republicans destroying America?
Another screw job - Bush has been playing down the issue of a super highway...well tomorrow, a real slap in the face to America, the first day of Labor Day week end, Mexican truckers will be allowed to drive into the US.
http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=51779
This certainly will cause lost jobs, lower wages for the already struggling trucking industry, unsafe reads and I feel will be the birth to the super highway.
Screw America... just so corporations can gain.
Is the MSM reporting this?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:41 pm*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
August 31st, 2007 at 4:42 pmPlease list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Because being dead or seeing your friend die is the greatest moral killer on the planet.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Not knowing the real mission or who the real enemy is also.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:44 pmOccupations just plain suck.
multiple deployments and 15 mo deployments are not a real moral booster either.
#255 - Since you brought it up let's see what you can find. That wasn't the issue now was it? We were discussing censorship to the military. Try to focus. Too much sugar in your Kool-Aid ?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:45 pm"I call it a fu*k filter, because that is what it is. A filter, not censorship. See, I am smart enough to still be able to type fu*k, I just have to use an asterisk. If people aren’t smart enough to figure out a way to post without their post disappearing, then that is not being as smart as a piece of software.
The d!ckhead trolls getting banned has nothing to do with free speech. Hate speech is not covered by the Constitution. You are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater and you can’t be a dumb fu*k on somebody else’s private property, which TP is.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — August 31, 2007 @ 4:10 pm"
Spudge,
A "filter" is another term for CENSOR!
Also, this "filter" was blocking so many posts recently that I could not even post ONE line comments on it.........
If they are "filtering" that much, then it is CENSORSHIP!
I was on the verge of leaving because it was so bad about 2-3 weeks ago.
I'm not someone not familiar with softwar or "filters", but when they "filter" out one lines that are not contraversial and present facts then that is censorship regardless of who or how it is done.
I understand you point, but a filter should not prevent people from posting NON cursing or vulgar language posts.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:47 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
I'm POSITIVE we have killed one million Iraqis, made four million refugees, made Iraq the second-worst failed state in the world, will be spending over $2 TRILLION, and have created a hornest's nest that makes us less secure. It is a tremendous recruiting tool and training ground for the fundamentalist Islamists who Saddam was suppressing.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:50 pmhornet's
August 31st, 2007 at 4:51 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — August 31, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
That's because your question is not relevant. There was all types of rubble at the 9/11 disaster. You are simply looking for a political fight.
A stupid question (molten?) don't deserve a response, let alone an intelligent one. Your stuff is of no burning issue whatsover, just your conspiracy itch that needs some scratching.
Muslims attacked us on 9/11. Yes, a non-American committed the attacks, much to your dismay. Now, please return to your charity skate to support Islamoid causes. I'm sure you'll come around to reading this later.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:53 pm*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
Please list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by (Un)mighty aphrodite
Why don't you post any accomplishments from the Iraq war and leaving Afghanistan to Nato, abandoning finishing off the REAL Al Qaeda hiding there and in Pakistan?
I personally do not asee any accomplishments from the Iraq war, a war started over lies. Got WMD?
August 31st, 2007 at 4:54 pmComment by Spudge_Boy
One usually doesn't come across many veterans who actually despise their own military service.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:54 pmI’m not someone not familiar with softwar or “filtersâ€, but when they “filter†out one lines that are not contraversial and present facts then that is censorship regardless of who or how it is done.
I understand you point, but a filter should not prevent people from posting NON cursing or vulgar language posts.
Comment by RemoveBush — August 31, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
And that would be what I call a glitch in the software blocking everything. After all, this is a blog run on free software, not on the latest greatest available. You get what you pay for. In this case it would be $0.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:55 pmPlease list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
There have to be some positive military accomplishments before they can be reported on. Duh!
August 31st, 2007 at 4:56 pmComment by Spudge_Boy
One usually doesn’t come across many veterans who actually despise their own military service.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
One always comes across republican trolls that haven't even served.
Also, nothing in any of my posts even closely resembles despising my service. I loved it. It was like the boy scouts, but with rockets and bombs. It was great seeing pu$$ies like you get shredded by the drills.
Try again. Weak. Pu$$y.
August 31st, 2007 at 4:57 pmSubverting democracy should do wonders for military recruitment.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pmComment by Spudge_Boy — August 31, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
I know I would appreciate my service, if I ever served.
People like me? I'm not a third-world citizen obsessed with creating bombs to levy against the U.S.
Perhaps you should believe less of the lefty propaganda of these idiot posters, while spending more time realizing the significant good of your military service. These lefties only want you to admit your service if you can accompany that with a statement that it wasn't worth it.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:08 pmHey Zooey. I feel sorry for CNN’s Dana Bash. They have forced her to spend the past four days in Boise!! Sounds cruel to me. I’ve learned that not only do you have an Idahomo for Senator, but also a “C. Otter†for governor.
Comment by Keith — August 31, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Ugh, I can't stand Boise, either. :P
Idahomo -- that's clever, Keith! The preening plastic cut-out who is the Gov likes to be called "Butch." Heh.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:13 pmPerhaps you should believe less of the lefty propaganda of these idiot posters, while spending more time realizing the significant good of your military service. These lefties only want you to admit your service if you can accompany that with a statement that it wasn’t worth it.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Now I ask you what the hell you are talking about?
No one here, except for the trolls has questioned my service, put down my service or said that I served in any other way than as a patriot. So, until you can rein in your troll buddies, your remarks about my service and who I should listen to fall on deaf ears, pal.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:14 pmHeading back to #253, my own reflections . . .
If the people serving in this war were more dispursed over the economic and poitical landscape, the war would be over.
If Bush had to look at the twins werving.
War over.
FYI, The Bushs aren't immune to a little bloodshed or cash fallout. Laura T-boned her ex-boyfriend in a car wreck in which he died and in which she was completely exhonorated Post-Presidency, and regardless of the heartlessness in which your house is being foreclosed upon, back in the rock-roaring '90sm when Neil Bush was screwing investors right and left with Silverado, George Senior assurred investors that the US govt would put "the full faith and credit of the United States" behind the bailout. Cost taxpayors trillions, but Neil escaped unscathed.
Damn. This time around, no Bushies obviously invested.
They got careful. . . we just took one more time in the already puckered a ** with a little Karl Rove kiss to make it all better.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:14 pmOne usually doesn’t come across many veterans who actually despise their own military service.
Comment by CT_V1
Also, nothing in any of my posts even closely resembles despising my service. I loved it. It was like the boy scouts, but with rockets and bombs. It was great seeing pu$$ies like you get shredded by the drills.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
LOL
Yeah, I enjoyed my service. They paid me to shoot some really cool weapons ( example: SR-25 Stoner or M4A1 ), jump out of planes and blow sh!t up.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:15 pmHell, I still jump on vacations.
These lefties only want you to admit your service if you can accompany that with a statement that it wasn’t worth it.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one, CT.
We have several commenters here (non-troll types) who have served, or are currently serving, and I challenge you to find a single one of them who feels like they have to downplay their military service around here.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:16 pm"Actually I don’t believe Cheney, Bush are competent enough to coordinate 9/11. Maybe if they hired expert help. But when a crime happens look at who benefits.
Comment by texaslady — August 31, 2007 @ 4:12 pm"
Bush is not, but Cheney is......
Also look at who has benefited and then tell me that it is not Bush/Cheney??????
We still have no accountability for that 2.3 TRILLION dollars that came up missing on 9/10........
August 31st, 2007 at 5:25 pm'National Review is still available.'
Now that's just shameful.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:28 pmZooey:
I found this picture startling. Enough reason that this war should stop today.
http://www.jenbekman.com/artists/nina_berman/?gallery=current&image=nina_berman_marine_wedding
Please take a look and let me know your thoughts.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:29 pmI wasn’t questioning the validity of your military service, it’s just my belief that radicalized leftists on this site will use your proclamation of it to scribble on their political posterboard.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Your belief?
Now you're going to have to show some proof of said "scribbling."
August 31st, 2007 at 5:29 pmI wasn’t questioning the validity of your military service, it’s just my belief that radicalized leftists on this site will use your proclamation of it to scribble on their political posterboard.
Comment by CT_V1
Trolls are th only ones here that have demeaned my service
August 31st, 2007 at 5:30 pmYour logic is faulty on that CT
OMG Spudge_Boy!
I've been missing my political posterboard. !!! Where am I gonna scribble?
August 31st, 2007 at 5:31 pm"The History Channel is an official entity, an official source of credible information. You’re just a propaganda humper who wants something to have happened just so you can bask in political gain. That’s shameful.
Get over it, Monkey. You have no credibility, especially over the tried and true professionals who assembled that documentary.
Stop embarrasing yourself.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 4:18 pm"
Not when they SPIN information!!!!!
They had the so called "Experts" dressed nice in a nice enviorment, and had the "truthers" in dark places and dressed casual......
Their "experts" also were not "experts", except one or two...... Then even those are questionable.
But you believe what you want, and when YOU have lost all your RIGHTS and the country as we know it, then perhaps you will know the truth but I doubt it.
By the way....... The truth movement has provided MORE FACTS to 9/11 then the government or any other source has........
Such as the WTC investigation where NIST only look at the towers to the point that they were "poised" to collapse.......
Is that what we do now in investigations???? Look at something to the POINT that it happened?????
Imagine a murder case being looked at to the point that the person was killed???? Not at the information after that, like was the body moved and why?
Yeah, they did a bang up job of investigating 9/11, you MORON!
August 31st, 2007 at 5:31 pmSpudge_Boy !!!Spudge_Boy !!
I've got my crayon, . . . please . . . I really want to scribble something meaningful. I'm kind of thinking, after you lose a leg and have to get a prostetic leg, how do you kind of deal with that? When little boys ask you what happened, do you say that you lost it . . . . I really don't know . . . or do you show them that you can still kick a football . . . . You are good.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:36 pm#281 On many points I agree with you Cheney is as lousey as they come and both would have benefitted but when they can't do anything else competently doesn't it make you wonder how they could pull it off?
Plus with so many involved how is it kept quiet? I believe if they had thought of it they would do it. Nothing is beyond these two psychos.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:36 pmIt could certainly be argued that the Bush Administration and the cheerleaders of the Iraq invasion gives recruiting tools to America's enemies.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:38 pmPlease take a look and let me know your thoughts.
Comment by rockyroad — August 31, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
I've seen that picture before, RR. They both look like they're in shock, don't they? It's unforgivable....
August 31st, 2007 at 5:38 pmI support the troops by keeping them uninformed. War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:42 pmThe military accomplishments in Iraq took three weeks. Ran through Saddam's forces like a BernzoMatic through tissue paper. Rolled into Baghdad.
And that was it.
Because that was the end of the war, and the beginning of the occupation.
Wars have fronts. Wars have battlefields. Wars have physical objectives.
Wars have armies.
The last massed army the US fought went up in smoke in 2003.
The 'war' in Iraq has no advances and retreats, not battle lines, no fortresses, no bridges to be taken, no columns of armor to be neutralized, no battleships and no bombers to be blown up.
This 'war' is without a single military victory since 2003--and without a single military defeat, for that matter.
Our soldiers are great soldiers--but in a land where they don't speak the language, abysmal as cops.
An Iraqi who speaks English can call his obnoxious neighbor a terrorist to the Americans, and the Americans will obligingly shoot him and include it in a press release.
Within three weeks, United States Armed Forces controlled all of Iraq.
There are no more military targets in Iraq. No more military objectives.
All there is is nation building and police work.
And police work doesn't need howitzers--it needs Arabic. It needs familiarity with the culture. It needs contact.
Look at what they're talking about. The Surge is working because it's lowering crime statistics! The military crows because it captures a ringleader!
This isn't Omar Bradley explaining the relief of Bastogne, with its arows and fronts--it's the Chief of Police, tslking about the Long hot summer!
I'm sure the troops are dearly wishing for a real military actiom--when they aren't praying to go home. But all they're being given is driving around and being shot at, maybe by the man, woman or child who smiled at them yesterday.
And Iraqis get shot and die. And Americans get shot and die.
If you took General George S. Patton Jr. and showed him Iraq and called it a 'war'. He would look at you with a face full of appalled disgust.
I don't think he'd speak to you after that.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:45 pmI wasn’t questioning the validity of your military service, it’s just my belief that radicalized leftists on this site will use your proclamation of it to scribble on their political posterboard.
Comment by CT_V1 — August 31, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Well, I have been posting at this site under the same name since it first opened and I will repeat ONLY RIGHTIES HAVE SAID THINGS NEGATIVE ABOUT MY SERVICE. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS. NOT THE "LEFTISTS HERE." YOUR KIND, TROLLS, CONSERVATIVES, REPUBLICANS. WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT TO USE. YOUR SIDE IS THE ONLY SIDE NEGATIVE TOWARDS MY SERVICE AND I WILL NEVER FORGET IT.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:47 pmSo let's see. Those that are over there "fighting for our freedoms" ( Yeah, I know. It's all BS) are "fighting" for exactly what freedoms?
This admin is so totallt fubar. You can't make this stuff up.
August 31st, 2007 at 5:47 pmI consider this beyond the pale.
Big Brother has arrived.
The troops are the administrations pawns.
The administration needs to be examined by the court of the people.
The Court needs to speak on behalf of the people and their TROOPS.
The constable needs to administer the hand cuffs to the administration.
The Hague awaits!
August 31st, 2007 at 5:58 pm"Plus with so many involved how is it kept quiet? I believe if they had thought of it they would do it. Nothing is beyond these two psychos.
Comment by texaslady — August 31, 2007 @ 5:36 pm"
Look at history.....
I forget the entire town of about 25,000 that were building the first Nuclear Reactor in the west. They all kept quiet about it for years..........
If the people doing it don't believe at the time that they are doing anything wrong, or they are from another country, who is going to talk???? If they try afterwards, they simply get slammed and they shut up. Just look at all the whistle blowers who have been trashed for bringing wrong doing to light.
It is COMPELTELY possible to have thousands involved, just revisit history.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:07 pmAND they are fighting for what " freedom", even if you believe the "freedom conspiracy" or cover story and not the real reason to grab and control Iraq's OIL, this evens disproves what the official reason for OCCUPYING Iraq has been .
August 31st, 2007 at 6:15 pmWhile we suffer from the destruction of freedom, so have American troops with access to the internet being censored and it looks like everybody loses with the occupation of Iraq. U.S. Troops, U.S. people and the Iraqi people .
Only a few are benefiting from the occupation of IRAQ, Close friends of Cheney and bush, military contractors , bankers and big oil companies .
#281. All well and good, but why whon't you name "him"? I know who "he" is, you know who "he" is, why won't you name "him"?
Who are you protecting?
August 31st, 2007 at 6:22 pmDon't be so quick to congratulate yourselves, twits.
I'm well known to be a conservative Republican and supporter of the war effort, and I'm usually banned on government servers, too.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pm*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
Please list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
You do it, you lazy-assed b*tch.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pmZooey,
Thanks for letting me know that you've seen the pic. It's devestating. So many thoughts, so little . . . wow . . . no way to even . . . whatever.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:30 pmComment by Jason Van Steenwyk — August 31, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Probably because you go to someone else's "house" and call them twits. Or maybe cuz you make the troops feel all shiny and special?
Just guessing, of course.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:32 pm#294. Hey TWIT!! :>) All smiles and happiness. Kiss Kiss!
August 31st, 2007 at 6:32 pmThanks for letting me know that you’ve seen the pic. It’s devestating. So many thoughts, so little . . . wow . . . no way to even . . . whatever.
Comment by rockyroad — August 31, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
Those two have more to overcome than surface issues. It's going to be very difficult.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:33 pmOh the Twits . . . Monty Python used to have such a great contest. . . today, we could retrofit it . . . Senate pages, what you've got, how long can you go? . . . public restrooms in Idaho, what you've got, how wide is your stance . . . oh, those congressional pages and the places we'd go!!! hoo de hee! hoo de hoo! I -dee - hoo!
August 31st, 2007 at 6:36 pmZooey,
The surface is exactly that . . . however this works out, God must be with them both. It's just too painful to imagine on all sides.
God bless.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:39 pmZooey,
I must also point out that this did not have to happen. Our president, the chimpee in chief, decided that his grudge and misbegotten greed, propelled him into war. Even if I am wrong in my assessment of the reasons that we embarked on this disaster, I am not wrong in my assessment of the outcome.
Look at this picture. It speaks volumes. It says it all.
http://www.jenbekman.com/ artists/ nina_berman/ ?gallery=current&image=nina_berman_marine_wedding
I cry.
August 31st, 2007 at 6:45 pmDoes anyone else on this website have a thought? See the picture and post a thought.
http://www.jenbekman.com/ artists/ nina_berman/ ?gallery=current&image=nina_berman_marine_wedding
August 31st, 2007 at 6:50 pmyes, and on a related note, net neutrality, sure we can trust the big boys to stay honest on that one too...right? right?
August 31st, 2007 at 6:57 pmAs I stated earlier, our troops are plied not only with dishonesty and deceit regarding their Congressional representatives, but also evangelical vaudeville shows, (Operation Straight Up) which distribute not just t-shirts (described as homoerotic by many due to the over-muscled and half-naked depiction of dominionist warriors battering "non-believers"), with tag lines of "Bet You Can't Whip Me" and "Satan is a Punk", but these "road shows" also distributed Left Behind video games, which included scenes of end-timers killing UN peacekeepers. Check out the OSUtour. org website for more on these scary, Bush administration-sanctioned influences. No ThinkProgress for the troops-just end-time fun and games.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:05 pmIs this the "freedom of speech" my brother died for?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:11 pm"Unlike YOUR chicken $hit self, I actually served and I would have fight besides all and any of my fellow soldiers regardless of their beliefs……..
Something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!!!"
Comment by RemoveBush
Either you are fairly new here or the generous people at TP allow the postings of an idiot savant (your "special talent" must be banging away at a keyboard.)
I left the USN with the rank of LtCdr. after serving in JAG. My husband is a retired Marine Corps Colonel. So much for your trite and inaccurate musings.....
August 31st, 2007 at 7:27 pm*****A CHALLENGE TO PROGRESSIVES******
Please list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
You do it, you lazy-assed b*tch.
Comment by Zooey
Zoooette - You're just as eloquent as always!!! The military is well aware of the undermining negative affect TP and other anti-war blogs have on our troops. Why? Does TP lie? I don't think they lie about the brutality of war.....they lie by ommission and NEVER report any achievements our military accomplish. You may go back to ignoring me now.....
August 31st, 2007 at 7:32 pmIf this is so tis a grievious fault.
US Servicemen are US citizens... It would appear that the military is being used by the Republican Party to censor US citizen's access to news.
This also means that our tax dollars are being employed by the Republican party for partisan rhetoric (or lack thereof)
August 31st, 2007 at 7:34 pm"I left the USN with the rank of LtCdr. after serving in JAG. My husband is a retired Marine Corps Colonel. So much for your trite and inaccurate musings….."
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Actually, she left rehab just last week, but still harbors some meth-induced delusions.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:36 pmConservatives often point to polls of military personnel to make a point about who and what the people in the military support. But, how can anyone trust poll numbers identifying a given demographic which does not have access to the same information the rest of us have? And how much respect for the military do people really have if they think it's proper to deny soldiers the same access to information that the rest of us have?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:40 pmMust have somthing to do with that low moral.
Comment by Ringo
Exactly, low MORALS by Bush and the military who caters to the AWOL coward "commander-in-quagmire".
And Bush's LIES and sending them for POLITICAL REASONS (war of AGGRESSION rather than to protect the USA)
WOULD cause low MORALE...
August 31st, 2007 at 7:41 pm"Please list all the positive military accomplishments posted by TP of the US military in Iraq."
Comment by mighty aphrodite —
Here's your challenge: list all administration claims about Iraq that actually panned out
August 31st, 2007 at 7:53 pmExactly, low MORALS by Bush and the military who caters to the AWOL coward “commander-in-quagmireâ€.
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 31, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Are you accusing troops of having low morals?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:54 pmI can still get it in the Green Zone. Odd.
August 31st, 2007 at 7:55 pm“I left the USN with the rank of LtCdr. after serving in JAG. My husband is a retired Marine Corps Colonel. So much for your trite and inaccurate musings…..â€
Comment by mighty aphrodite
JUST FOR MA. PLEASE LET HER ANSWER ALONE
What are the punitive articles of the UCMJ and what it the maximum days of confinement that an NCO can issue?
August 31st, 2007 at 7:57 pmAre you accusing troops of having low morals?
Comment by hacker bob
Sadly for YOU, no...
I am accusing TRAITOR Bush and his PNAC WAR CRIMINALS of having LOW MORALS.
Along with any of the sycophant generals who KNOW that Bush is a WAR CRIMINAL, and still go along with it...
No, as far as the regular-guy TROOPS, I think they probably DO have LOW MORALE....
And who wouldn't with WAR CRIMINALS like Bush sending them as POLITICAL TOOLS for a WAR of AGGRESSION, and NOT defense???
So, NOPE.
I said TRAITOR Bush and his PNAC CRIMINALS have LOW (NO) MORALS.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:14 pmIn defense of DoD Networks, I would have to say you are offered no guarantee what sites you get to see while on them (most basic are 3rd party email providers), your only way to really get your own ISP is by going outside of their provided ISP, which may or may not be regulated. You are serving your country's interests from the Federal Party's chain of command.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:15 pmComment by Arn Gunnutes — August 31, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
OH, OK. The term "the military" is pretty all encompassing, so I figured I would ask instead of assume that I knew what you meant.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:17 pmBarfly - As the topic (from which you seem to deviate often) is TP whining about TP's unavailability to our troops, please list ALL positive info from Iraq which TP posts......I know it's difficult for people wanting to lose this war because they despise George Bush so fanatically, but.....
August 31st, 2007 at 8:18 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
Are you going to answer the question I asked in #317 or not. If you were a JAG, it would be easy
August 31st, 2007 at 8:19 pmBob - As I have absolutely nothing to prove to you, I will allow you to do your own research.
You can study the Punitive Articles to your hearts content in Art. 877.77
August 31st, 2007 at 8:35 pmArt. 815.15 thoroughly covers Non-Judicial Punishment. Have fun.
I am at Maxwell AFB, Alabama doing some NCO trainin. I checked and Think Progress is blocked here too.
Not Blocked:
Huffington Post
Drudge Report
Captain's Quarters
Blocked:
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Pharyngula
Crooks and Liars
All Blogspot to include Jesus' General
Livejournal
I just don't understand the spotty methods used. If it is political opinion they are trying to block, then they should also filter NYT and WSJ, right? They have op-ed pages in addition to reporting. That's the same thing the blogs do. Also, what about Senators' web pages? They are full of bluster and opinion as well.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:37 pmBob - Neither you or any of your Prog buds have noted ONE positive posting about the American military's Iraqi campaign by TP. No wonder military people hate this site........
August 31st, 2007 at 8:41 pmmighty aphrodite - I'm military and love this site. I am tickled by the irony that my post directly preceded yours.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:43 pmI don’t think they lie about the brutality of war…..they lie by ommission and NEVER report any achievements our military accomplish. You may go back to ignoring me now…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Ok, YOU tell us all the goods things happening in Iraq, since TP is falling down on the job. Go ahead, you'll have to use the Google.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:56 pmStupid ass liberals. This site sucks
August 31st, 2007 at 8:56 pmOK, MA, You are a complete fraud and a moron.
Art. 815.15 does cover Non-Judicial Punishment, that is true. But it covers the limits imposed on a Commanding Officer (as in a Commissioned Officer, not a Non-Commissioned Officer)
Art. 877.77 Covers Principals to an Offense, which has nothing to do at all with what I asked other than the fact it is only one of the punitive articles.
Punitive Articles are 877.77-934.134. NCOs (Non-commissioned Officers) are not authorized to issue confinement as they do not have Court Martial or Non-Judicial Punishment authority.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not trying to defend TP. I understand the constraints on the network in theater and I agree with the actions of the DOD. Just as I agree with them blocking hotmail, gmail, hot or not, etc.
Please point to where I was defending TP.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:58 pmYeah, doesn't surprise me. I work for Lockheed Martin and I cannot go to Al Franken's website, but I can go to Druggie Limbaugh's.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:59 pmWhen you censor the troops who might get at the truth or even a little glimer of it... and you put out Bios of Democratic Senators that are visiting the green zone that contain false or misleading information... I guess you're either just trying to "catapult the propoganda" or win the hearts and minds of your own troops.
If that doesn't work, you can always activate the caging lists for those voters that might disagree with your message...
Why oh why don't you just make them take off their thinking caps and use you as cannon fodder for an illegal war?
August 31st, 2007 at 9:00 pmComment by hacker bob — August 31, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Do you agree with them blocking TP?
August 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pmNo wonder military people hate this site……..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
Lest you forget that I am Active Duty USMC. Yep, I have been called out and questioned about it and have SHOWN that I am military. What about you, MA?
August 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pmDo you agree with them blocking TP?
Comment by Zooey — August 31, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
Yes I do. I also agree with them blocking hotmail, etc. Mine is a matter of network constraint, not content.
When I was there in '05, we fought hell just to keep the basic NIPRNET (unclassified internet) functions up, much less have the available for blogging.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:09 pmDo you agree with them blocking TP?
Comment by Zooey — August 31, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
Yes I do. I also agree with them blocking hotmail, etc. Mine is a matter of network constraint, not content.
When I was there in ‘05, we fought hell just to keep the basic NIPRNET (unclassified internet) functions up, much less have the available for blogging.
Comment by hacker bob
Then, do you also agree that Rush Limbaugh and his PROPAGANDA should ALSO be banned???
August 31st, 2007 at 9:11 pmThen, do you also agree that Rush Limbaugh and his PROPAGANDA should ALSO be banned???
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — August 31, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
Yep, I do.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:12 pmNotice the silence as MA slinks away after her scolding
August 31st, 2007 at 9:13 pmBob - If you consider eating dinner "slinking away", you prove yourself to be the snake I know you to be.
I don't believe you are active duty USMC. You sound more like a disgruntled draftee during Viet Nam. I do not have the time or inclination to read each thread, but I have never seen you exhibit any pride in the Marines. If I am incorrect, I apologize.
Well Bob, the Smedley Butler division is proud of you.......
August 31st, 2007 at 9:48 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 9:48 pm
I'm more of the Chesty Puller type
August 31st, 2007 at 9:55 pmI wonder if the 100,000 mercenaries can still get TP.. ??
August 31st, 2007 at 10:05 pmDon't know if it's already been posted, but Keith Olberman covered this story tonight.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:25 pmIt could certainly be argued that ThinkProgress gives comfort and encouragement to America’s enemies.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
So does that rightwing site Redstate.org, who encourages kidnappers in Iraq to continue holding their captives simply because they (Redstate) disagree with the captors' views on the "war."
Moron.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:28 pmMargaret - If you were in the middle of a military conflict - IT would be disastrous. But TP highlights ONLY negative news from Iraq……hardly “fair and balancedâ€â€¦â€¦
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Fox "News" hasn't exactly been flooding it's web site with good news stories, which, I understand from several soldiers in Iraq, number in the "thousands."
August 31st, 2007 at 10:34 pm"I’m more of the Chesty Puller type"
Comment by hacker bob
Uh-huh.....You wish.....However, I could see you spit polishing his boots.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:41 pmThe citizens of this country have to start pushing their representatives to stop the dictatorial policies and practives of Cheney and Bush.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:43 pmThey have pushed the envelope to the edge and if it is not stop now , there will be no return.
Cheney , Bush and the republicans have sold out every citizen of this country and giving it to the wealthy (themselves included) and Global Corporations.
The democrats seems not willing to push the issues and have to be pushed much harder. This seems like another reason they have pushed the elections up , so candidates with less money will get less exposure and have less of a change of getting their message to the citizens of this country.
We have only two candidates that this practive favors and are in a position to control and take most of the votes and we know whom they are.
Lord help us if we do not stop the elite control of our government and the changing of our policies.
Typical. I guess the difference between activism and news is in the eye of the beholder.
August 31st, 2007 at 10:50 pmUh-huh…..You wish.….However, I could see you spit polishing his boots.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — August 31, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
Uh- you don't even know me.
But then again, I do wear a uniform in real life, not pretend to have worn one on a blog.
Ever heard of "Stolen Valor" laws?
August 31st, 2007 at 10:54 pm> Chesty puller type
Yeah, you're pulling something, that's for sure.
Hey, what's that tapping sound?
August 31st, 2007 at 11:17 pmThink Progress censors too:)
August 31st, 2007 at 11:22 pmThe military really does seem to take care of its own. I guess they thought they were looking out for soldiers' well being....just like the patriot act keeps us protected back here in the US.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:33 pmBefore you go looking for bushmchilteraburton, consider the nutty fake reverend nutbag at http://www.hatewatch.blogspot.com/. They've been gaming popular internet filter software of late to cause these outages. A lot of sites. Can't say it is them just consider it's a vast nutbag conspiracy rather than and vast hellibacon. I'd say the Zieg Hiels and stuff qualifies you as a legitamte target. He goes after right wing sites most of the time. Congratulations on your newheadache. Some of out first reports were from military but reports from corporate users soon followed as the filters update.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:34 pmBob asserts, "Uh- you don’t even know me." I know you as well as you know me....but from what I know of you, I have no desire to further our acquaintance
But then again, I do wear a uniform in real life, not pretend to have worn one on a blog. Uh-huh......Whatever you say.....
Ever heard of “Stolen Valor†laws?" Sounds like something you might be guilty of.......
August 31st, 2007 at 11:37 pmHag,
*yawn*
We have seen your myspace, now you can look at mine.
I don't hide who I am. Anonymity is the mask of a coward.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:58 pmI see alot of people saying that TP is a left wing propaganda site - but what about RedState and Fox News. Can the same not be said of both of these. I'm not saying that either sides point of view is right or wrong - but in a FREE country we should have the right to access that information and publish our opinions. That is the danger behind this whole - "Your either with us or your a terrorist" mind set that Neo-Cons push on the general public. That attitude is very Un-American in my opinion.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:13 amEveryone knows that the liberal facts have a liberal bias, and must be stopped - it’s the fair and balanced thing to do.
Comment by Namtillaku — August 31, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Now that makes sense. ;)
September 1st, 2007 at 12:13 amI actually like MA’s idea. I think the thing she overlooked, is that the “Blue†states oddly enough tend to be the economic engines that run this country. By jettisoning the “red†states we could at the very least reduce significantly the amount of money going to them. Add to that the “red†states can take the billions of debt Bush has built up to pay for his ego and we are set.
Comment by Krazny — August 31, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
Unfortunately, the people who pay the majority of the taxes would be in the red states. You'd get all the folks who want to be taken care of from cradle to grave. Quite an expensive proposition.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:17 amThis shit has gone on long enough. Where do I sign up for the revolution? We all got to make a stand, and soon!
September 1st, 2007 at 12:37 amTP is pure Leftist propaganda.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Being on the so called "left" doesn't make one a Marxist, commie, or a bad American. You can be a decent Christian and be on the left, this ignorant attitude of right wing freaks needs a reality check.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:38 amHow about this…
F*ck supporting the troops.
Comment by Joe — August 31, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
C'mon, Joe, the libs here are working so hard to keep up the impression that they don't hate the military. Are ya trying to ruin everything for which they've worked? They've done an "unbelievable" job of sticking with the pretense. Help 'em out, bud! ;)
September 1st, 2007 at 12:41 amYou can be a decent Christian and be on the left, this ignorant attitude of right wing freaks needs a reality check.
Comment by StopNewYorkPolitics — September 1, 2007 @ 12:38 am
In order to be a Christian, you have to be nearer to the middle. Christ taught charity and brotherly love along with personal responsibilty and morality. That leaves out the far left. ;)
September 1st, 2007 at 12:45 amWhat's started in Baghdad is just the beginning. Thanks to the power behind your government the city I live in, Oakland, and so many others around the world, becomes steadily more violent, corrupt, and chaotic by the year. If you've got money, buy into one of the gated green zones being built near you now. Otherwise you better learn to drop and retun fire accurately. The shit is about to hit the fan, my friends.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:47 amMove on Move on, nothing to see here.
They have been doing this for a long time and it's for security reasons not to censor free speech. Service men and women can go to any site they want on their personal computers or the public ones provided at the library or internet terminals.
What Think Progress won't tell you is they sensor right wing sites as well like Malkin and LGF and Ace of Spades and....the list goes on. I know because I used to work on military networks when I was in the military and as a contractor.
T.P and the tin-foil hat brigade should try reporting actual stories and not hyperbole....
September 1st, 2007 at 1:00 amThe military people responsible for blocking Think Progress while allowing TREASONOUS PROPAGANDA like Rush Limbaugh and Fox "news" are
FVKTARD TRAITORS to the USA.
As are the ones who did the hatchet propaganda job on the Democratic Congresspeople.
These azzhole military coxuckers are WAR CRIMINALS will BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY along with TRAITORS Bush and Cheney...
September 1st, 2007 at 1:32 amKieth Olbermann reported it
U.S. Military Censors ThinkProgress
September 1st, 2007 at 1:36 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4pYFtjfKE
Here's a reality check for those of you who clearly have never served in the US Armed Forces:
1) Upon enlistment, commission, or conscription, you have no rights other than the right to vote. You are no longer a citizen, you are the property of the United States Government.
2) The government can, and often will, censor, redirect, delay, withhold, and block correspondence and communications deemed harmful to moral, mission, strategy, etc.
These are the facts of life in the military, and it can be used for legitimate reasons, or for political or other less honorable reasons. I guess if some of those that posted here served in the military, they would understand the necessity of such policies. Whether used for good or bad reasons, this practice of censorship is necessary in the military.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:40 amThis is very distressing that our military is expected to risk their lives and limbs to "bring freedom to Iraqi's" , but are placed in a controlled media?
Fox is only allowed because of a cheerleading role of lies and propaganda. If you think FOX can tell our troops that it is all just going greatt in Iraq when the troops are actually there in it. They have to be at their wits end. All the same. Our troops are creative and trained to overcome. They will find a way to get the media they want if they have to tinker with the satilite dish's themselves.
Been there and done that in Desert Storm when they tried to limit our media.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:48 amThere would be less death and mayhem if they took out FOX and Rush from the media in Bagdad. Know wonder why they are so fundamentally violent. Listening to that all the time ..................
I understand that Deborah, but why is it just liberal=progressive sites that get blocked?
And this:
September 1st, 2007 at 1:48 am
I understand that Deborah, but do tell why it's just liberal-progressive sites getting blocked?
September 1st, 2007 at 1:54 am
And this:
September 1st, 2007 at 1:57 am
What sort of victory do you suspect we'll have with a war based on lies? And will our enemy, who hasn't forgotten slights from a thousand years, embrace us in defeat?
I don't know the result will be, but I know the begining of the Administration's explanation: "No one could have anticipated...."
September 1st, 2007 at 1:57 amThis Marine would disagree with Deborah:
September 1st, 2007 at 1:58 am
Deborah, WAKE UP!! Our noble military has been politized.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:00 amoops, sorry for the double posting above. I waited at least 5 min after posting at 1:48 am and it still wasn't showing up, so I reposted it.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:01 amNice little threat at the end, too. Asswipes.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:10 amhttp://wonkette.com/politics/iraq/stop-abusing-our-marines-210428.php
A conservative former Reagan official called Bush a mass-murderer.The man is correct.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:19 amThat information has has probably been censored by the military as well.
OMG.....
I have never been a paranoid person but think I could easily become one if I thought this sort of behaviour would last for very long.
This is wrong on so many levels.
Maybe Bush finds these two word pornographic....THINK.......and ........PROGRESS.
jack jett
September 1st, 2007 at 2:31 amWhat a compliment, to be banned by a repressive regime.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:47 am>>>Welcome to the Chinese Internet.
Im posting from China, and Thinkprogress is not banned.
The PRC must be more liberal the US army!
September 1st, 2007 at 4:45 amWho can I write to complain?
September 1st, 2007 at 5:07 amUnder the Bush regime, the United Staes of America has lost its way! Bush is a treasonous traitor to the U.S. Constitution and all it stands for!
TIME TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!!!!. TIME TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!!!!, TIME TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!!!!, TIME TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL!!!!!
September 1st, 2007 at 5:45 amHello, I'm writer on advocacy.globalvoicesonline.org blog on online censorship. I blogged about this story and pick up your screen shot :-)
September 1st, 2007 at 7:57 am> OK, MA, You are a complete fraud and a moron.
Right.. looks like after repeatedly getting called out for a fraud and a faker,
she tried to use "the google" to answer Bob's question.
I myself have asked her to give some details of the exam she allegedly took to become a lawyer.. her response was "why, do you need a lawyer?"
She could have answered in less than one sentence, but no, she doesnt have to prove anything, neither does her hero george.
We've seen your myspace. Your not married, your not in the military, your not a lawyer. Your a hairy ugly methead with an eating disorder who hates the world and sees mindnumbingly horny soldiers as her last best attempt at getting laid.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:42 amWhile you idiots fight it out, here's a real solution to bypass the filter, use Tor (https://tor.eff.org). Enjoy.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:08 am"These azzhole military coxuckers are WAR CRIMINALS will BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY along with TRAITORS Bush and Cheney…"
Thus is the view of most of the left regarding the military, which is why I pray they never get a hold of this country. They either call them dumb or say they're killers and war criminals.
I wish the MSM would pick up what you people really say about our armed services, but alas they won't, they're liberal too....
September 1st, 2007 at 9:14 amLow MORALE, not "moral."
SIEG Heil, not "seig."
If you're going to criticize, please do so, but at least try to spell the criticisms properly!
September 1st, 2007 at 9:15 amand by the way Hermaphrodite, to answer the question you asked me instead of answering mine......even if i needed a lawyer, id get better advice by digging up the corpse of terri shiavo than by having your legal assistance... lol
September 1st, 2007 at 9:23 amBentley, you are not paying attention. There are active duty military people here. People like me. What you have cited is not the left's view of the military. The left IS the military, just as much as the right is. Our servicemembers are a reflection of our society. Stop conflating conservativism with serving our nation.
And don't worry, I am not just picking on you. No need to cry. This goes for everyone on all sides of any argument.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:59 amComment by mighty aphrodite
MA, you've made this challenge several times. Why don't you give some EXAMPLES of the positive military accomplishments that TP has been neglecting? How about some positive political accomplishments, given that without those, military accomplishments don't mean squat!
September 1st, 2007 at 10:27 amEven in the short run, blocking access to "leftist" websites will illustrate to our military personel whether they are "conservative" or "liberal" the true colors of our gov't, in that they talk the talk in regard to "freedom" but don't walk the walk, instead using CENSORSHIP when something doesn't suit their agenda. Go ahead, make it obvious jerkoffs, you are just showing your true stripes and they are not red and white like the flag, they are black and white, like a SKUNK.
September 1st, 2007 at 1:05 pmHeya, Active duty service member postng here from work (though I am stateside, which is likely why you are not blocked).
Needless to say, MA is as usual talking out of her rectal orifice in regasrds to 'thinkprogress hurts morale'. I know of none of my peers who would disagree with much of what can be found here and many that would agree.
Please do not buy into the myth of the 'conservative majority' in the military that the myopic likes of MA try to sell to the public. Most of my fellow troops are fairly described as being 'liberal' in their views and fairly disaproving of the political course we have been taking in the last few years.
Peace!
September 1st, 2007 at 1:39 pmAnd did you know that Think Progress is blocked in Iran?
Go figure.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:03 pm"TP is pure Leftist propaganda."
Mr. Ringo you may think and say what you will about anything you wish this is America. Think Progressive also has that right and that is what America is all about and what makes America a great country. Regardless of your opinion of the material being presented censorship has absolutely no place in a free and democratic society. Yes America is a democratic society and it is supposed to be free no matter who is in the oval office.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:05 pm"And did you know that Think Progress is blocked in Iran?
Go figure."
Hey Akbar...What happens in Iran isn't being paid for by taxes of a free America.
September 1st, 2007 at 2:07 pm"Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
"During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
MG Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC Ret. (died 1940)
September 1st, 2007 at 2:22 pmThe move is on to de-rail the Right wing express. Here is a idea that needs comments posted to do an end run for the constitution, the society, the troops and their families.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/bush-speaking-to-american_b_61953.html
September 1st, 2007 at 3:34 pmAccess Denied (content_filter_denied)
that's no 'error message'...
that was a 'warning shot'.
for the individual whose 'IP address' & 'Username' that was logged when they tried to access think progress - and - for the Republic. In a not to distant era it would have read:
Achtung!! * Zugang verweigerte * Achtung!!
The next step will be the same 'error message' popping up stateside.
Prepare yourselves, now!
Sich vorbereiten, jetzt!
September 1st, 2007 at 3:45 pmI guess they're not fighting for our freedom after all. Not only are they being asked to brave the streets of Baghdad in unarmored Humvees, they're being denied access to a free press. Ninety percent think Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Our troops have been duped for corporate profits. And the Democratic Congress is now complicit. Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich are the only ones I've heard make any sense on this matter. Bush/Cheney knew the result would be a quagmire (Seen the '94 Cheney video? Google it.) but their sole mission is to enrich war contracting conglomerates and Big Oil. They will keep our troops in harms way at all costs. Isn't it obvious by now? Why is Congress not acting? Shame on this once great nation.
September 1st, 2007 at 4:16 pmWe mirrored the TP page at:
September 1st, 2007 at 4:26 pmhttp://tinyurl.com/2mkp8y
Bentley --
most of the people who obsess about "burning in Hell" are on the Right side of the aisle. Believers on this side are more the Sermon on the Mount types.
September 1st, 2007 at 4:45 pmI so wish we had a draft. I know the full time military just hate the idea of a draft. They say the troops they'd take in are just not up to the job and so on. Funny thing is, WWII, you know, the Big One, 69% of the military were drafted. Yes, 69% were drafted. And yes, we won the Big One.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:09 pmThing about the draft it brings in those who'd never ever would serve. And people, ideally, from all walks of life would be taken into the military. That's why when I hear about some troop getting killed, and a Bush Bot says, "But they volunteered...." I just look at them like they're nuts. Yes, they volunteered to serve but not get in some frivolous war to make some clowns who got out of going to Nam fell good about themselves.
This "action" or "war" is only being supported by lip service. No one is asked to sacrifice anything. We're getting "guns and butter" at the same time. That didn't work with LBJ back in the 60's so I find it odd how the Bush people are trying to make it work now.
No one is asked to sacrifice. We're not asked to drive slower to conserve oil, or reduce our dependency on foreign fuels. We're not demanding windmill farms to generate electricity, or more fuel efficient cars or trucks. We don't even have a "War Effort".
Course, a draft won't help fuel usage, but it will bring those who support the war into the military. And those who don't. But, they'll both get to serve and share the risks involved.
And you'll also find out whose gay and whose not. Funny thing about the draft in Nam. A lot of people all of the sudden were gay, or quickly got married to avoid being drafted.
Yes, a draft is a great equalizer. So, let's equalize the "war" and have a draft. We'll bring in the rich, the poor, the middle class, the well connected and the un-connected.
You see, with a draft, like you had in WWII, it produced the "Greatest Generation" America ever had. So, let's have a "Second Greatest Generation" and have a draft.
BTW - Some hard-Right sites have also been blocked.
Comment by Ringo — August 31, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Talks cheap.
Please cites specifics and sources substantiating that claim.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:54 pmIt's absolutely absurd and more of our constitutional rights are being ripped-away; if the troops can see what has been said and can access the forum, then if they recognize that it's incorrect or have a different opinion, they are able to express it just as the rest of us do. They can join the military, risk their lives on a daily basis, but are denied the basic rights of those who aren't in the military???
Who else will the government decide is next to be censored for the "safety and welfare" of those who read it? I imagine the ACLU will jump on this, but will lose miserably, IMO. The courts are so stacked now I see little hope of a constitutionally correct ruling if it's brought before a federal court.
Just two days ago, Bush was accused of being a among the top historical "Mass Murderers", and I know that's a story they wouldn't want the troops to hear.
Former Reagan Aide Accuses Bush of Being a “Mass Murdererâ€!
I'm afraid to even speculate on what's next...
William Cormier
September 1st, 2007 at 9:17 pmI agree we need a draft, if all of the supporters of the war would volunteer, that would be unnecessary. It is much easier to back a war when someone else has to do the dying. We have extended the age of volunteers from age 35 to 42 years of age, and given a bonus of $20,000 and yet the military cannot meet it's quota's.
September 1st, 2007 at 10:27 pmI have read some of the things that have been posted and I agree
we are on a slippery slop and sliding fast. I remember where there
was a forum held for a major newspaper, I'm not sure excatly when.
Any how, Some of our troops where asking why they didn't have
better armour,personal armor and so on. I believe it was also
said that some of our troops were asking their family send them
things that should have been given them by our gov't.
Shortly after that they were NO LONGER able to voice their
options, our gov't said it was bad for moral. So like many
on this site, so much for freedom of speech...
One other thing while I'm on my soap box.... Why is it that when our
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:39 amTroops protect themselves they are put on trail for murder? I agree
that there were some that should have stood trail. When are our
people supposed to protect themselves and not worry about the
NEWSPAPERS looking over their shoulders? There has been
cases where there were reporters that were killed and some of our
Troops were too BUT only the reporters were mentioned..WHY?
It's interesting that while the left continually demands "the truth", they seem to practice the art of deception much more than those on the right, despite their claims to the contrary.
Doctored photographs ( Reuters, NYT), Fraudulent reports ( Jesse Macbeth, Micah Wright), fictional accounts published as war diaries (TNR), and now, misrepresentation by TP.
The article above makes it appear that soldiers are being denied access to "the truth", but this is not at all the case is it, TP?
How many of you that are so outraged at this censorship are aware that the military is only blocking sites on government computers, and that any soldier still has the ability to access these sites from personally owned computers and those privately used in internet cafes?
September 2nd, 2007 at 1:12 amHoly crap, you idiots! We've been accessing thinkprogress.org straight through!!!
I can only think that the "soldier" who sent you that message was either hoaxing you, or had a glitch that was cleared up.
Crap. The BlueCoat message goes out for tons of reasons. If you were "blocked" it would be by WebSense.
Check, next time. You all embarass me!
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:05 amI love the fact that complete and unfiltered Internet access is now considered a "right" of soldiers in the U.S. Armed Forces.
September 2nd, 2007 at 4:09 amAND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT...
...their Commander Guy is a former drunk drug-abusing animal torturer, a coward who evaded reporting for duty in Vietnam and subsequently went AWOL from his safe refuge in the Chickenhawk Air Guard.
Later, this Miserable Failure was Born Again... as a Miserable Failure.
A war criminal who shits on the entire planet even as he shits on his own country.
A gangster who helps only his cronies - fellow gangsters, propagandists and sociopaths - ruining the entire planet even as he ruins his own country.
And to hell with the miners, the drowning, the children, the environment, the blacks, the poor, the middle class, the world and the future.
And there's certainly to be no future for you, trolls. But then you dead-ender Nazi-loving freaks like the dirty ending in the sewer...
September 2nd, 2007 at 4:26 amIt is time to vote for Ron Paul. Liberals and Conservatives can probably agree that major problems can be blamed on the government departing from the Constitution. VOTE FOR RON PAUL! Even Republican hating liberals may want to register as Republicans (Must do it by Nov 07) to elect Ron Paul in the primary.
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:54 amRon Paul is the only candidate who has always been against war in Iraq. He is the only one we can trust to get us out of there. I would have said leave it to the soldiers to vote to stay or go, but clearly they have their information filtered and manipulated. He is also at low risk for corruption or integrity problems, since he has gone to great extremes to not accept government money that everyone is legally entitled to in this country.
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:04 amRead this gloids:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/09/military-censor.html
How does it feel to learn something?
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:27 am>Doctored photographs ( Reuters, NYT),
what, adding a few extra plumes of smoke to a picture of beirut burning? is that what you freaks obsess about? I love how you people have so little evidence to support your claims that you harp on the few same trivialities over and over and over again..
> Fraudulent reports
you mean like of saddam having WMD?
stfU hermaphrodite, the america media is run by big business, you think they are on the side of the little guy? lol... they will never show too much blood on the news, as they say....hard to sell toothpaste after people seeing footage likethat...
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:01 amReferman thats for HVAC/Refrigeration mechanic.It sounded like TP was cut off because it was taking up to much dish space,which means it was very popular overseas,not a political agenda.Was this war justified?Everybody voted yes!Were we lied to?Probably,but all envolved in the voting could have done their home work and voted diffrently.All the facts were there but our poloticians went with the majority,to save face and have a job next election.The disaster after Saddam was taken down,we now know,had not been forseen or even discussed..Was this a military blunder or political?Our military did exactly what our politicians asked take Saddam out of power (dead or alive) and they did.So when the flowers and hugs from the Iraqi people turned to stones,rpgs and ak47 fire our military sat in place and defended their selves and chased the scumbags out of areas and then returned to their base.But as our military leaders requested for another mission and a where do we go from here,and they told our politicians we cannot stay!Then we had a run on our Generals retireing,most probably were asked to retire,probably because of the difference of how to win the war and well they take orders from the white house and then gravity takes over and we all know chit roles down hill..With death tolls rising and our troops still in the middle politicians divide and the pelose,murtha and reids start spewing the war is lost and pull out.then the vietnam comparisons.The only similarities is the fact that politicians get our soldiers killed,you cannot run a war from behind a desk.War should be left to the professionals.When you go to war you will not get it exactly right,but you must have the ability to adapt to your enemies quickly.Now our politicians have changed sodes again and are using our soldiers as a political pawns.ITS REELECTION TIME
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:07 amPegH
He is in favour of eliminating the IRS, generally votes along with the Republicans on issues such as Gay marriage, Creationism in America's schools, and the worst of their "social conservative" excesses - all because they support low taxes.
Plus, to be honest about it he isn't the only one that was against the war from the start: Obama and Kucinich were both against the Iraq war from the start too.
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 amReferman thats for HVAC/Refrigeration mechanic.It sounded like TP was cut off because it was taking up to much dish space,which means it was very popular overseas,not a political agenda.Was this war justified?Everybody voted yes!Were we lied to?Probably,but all envolved in the voting could have done their home work and voted diffrently.All the facts were there but our poloticians went with the majority,to save face and have a job next election.The disaster after Saddam was taken down,we now know,had not been forseen or even discussed..Was this a military blunder or political?Our military did exactly what our politicians asked take Saddam out of power (dead or alive) and they did.So when the flowers and hugs from the Iraqi people turned to stones,rpgs and ak47 fire our military sat in place and defended their selves and chased the scumbags out of areas and then returned to their base.But as our military leaders requested for another mission and a where do we go from here,and they told our politicians we cannot stay!Then we had a run on our Generals retireing,most probably were asked to retire,probably because of the difference of how to win the war and well they take orders from the white house and then gravity takes over and we all know chit roles down hill..With death tolls rising and our troops still in the middle politicians divide and the pelose,murtha and reids start spewing the war is lost and pull out.then the vietnam comparisons.The only similarities is the fact that politicians get our soldiers killed,you cannot run a war from behind a desk.War should be left to the professionals.When you go to war you will not get it exactly right,but you must have the ability to adapt to your enemies quickly.Now our politicians have changed sIdes again and are using our soldiers as a political pawn.ITS REELECTION TIME..
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:09 amreferman
The enter key is your friend. Do not be afraid of the enter key, it won't bite you if you use it.
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:15 amSorry about the double post the 4 yr old wanted to play..TP seems to be a great place to discuss whatever no matter what side you reside.My point is all politicians are to blame for the dissaster that happened in Iraq,but they have redeamed theirselves by putting GEN P in charge.Things are looking better and although a few years late the COIN ops are turning this war around the IA is getting trained and are in alot of Iraq taking control.The provincial sheiks are turning against the brutality of Al Qaeda and are fighting side by side with IA and US forces.Yes im a vet,and I support GEN P and our soldiers. God Bless all our soldiers in harms way and their families thank you proudprimate Semper Fi
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:25 amAll you right-wing pukes can head for the shit-house and start tapping your feet.
September 2nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm“what, adding a few extra plumes of smoke to a picture of Beirut burning? is that what you freaks obsess about? I love how you people have so little evidence to support your claims that you harp on the few same trivialities over and over and over again..
> Fraudulent reports
you mean like of saddam having WMD?â€
No, I mean like adding a few plumes of smoke to a burning trash dump and then claiming it was a Lebanese village massacred by an Israeli jet strike. Reuters later withdrew all 920 images submitted by Hajj after it was discovered that many of them had been manipulated or completely staged, including the Beirut photo you are referring to.
Or like The Boston Globe’s photographs of American GI’s raping a woman, which later turned out to be vidcaps of a commercially available porn movie.
Or the NYT’s “Lebanese La Pieta†which appeared to be the body of a man pulled from the rubble after an Israeli jet strike but was actually staged using one of the workers clearing the debris.
And I mean fraudulent reports as in Jesse Mac Beth’s tale of massacres by the US Army rangers in Fallujah, Iraq which were touted as definitive proof of the barbarity of US troops, but turned out to be completely falsified by Macbeth, who had never been a Ranger, never been to Iraq, and only served in the Army for four weeks before he was booted out as mentally unfit for service.
Or Scott Beauchamp’s “diary†published by The New Republic. TNR was later forced to admit that one of the three incidents actually occurred in another country, at another time, and long before Beauchamp ever saw combat. Another was refuted by the manufacturers of the vehicles as being “impossible†and the representative TNR contacted claimed they misrepresented his information by only asking general questions then drawing their own conclusions without benefit of specifics.
Or Dan Rather/CBS’s use of crudely forged documents claiming Pres. Bush had received favored treatment while in the ANG. Apparently Rather was unaware that PC word processors were not used until well after 1968.
While we’re on the subject of Rather/CBS, I’ll mention 60 Minutes “The Wall Within†where he interviewed 6 “Vietnam vets†who told all the usual stories of murder and mayhem. Unfortunately for Rather, 5 of the six had never served in the military and the 6th was an equipment repairman who never saw a day of combat.
The there is Michael Isikoff/Newsweek’s reporting of an interrogator at Guantanamo flushing a Koran down the toilet. It never occurred. Newsweek later claimed honest error but that fact remains that they used a single unverified source (who later backed off on the claim) then ran with it.
Or virtually any of Micah Wrights first hand reports as a Ranger and combat veteran in his book “You Back the Attack! We’ll bomb Who We Wantâ€. Wright never served a day in the military; he lied to give his work credence.
That sort of fraudulent reporting.
Not the sort of fraudulent reporting you referred to, whereby old, tarnished WMD’s capable of killing only a few hundred thousand people don’t count, only shiny new ones that can kill millions do.
I presume you ARE aware, we’ve found over 500 of the old, tarnished ones so far. Ones still capable of doing immense damage in the wrong hands.
And there are more examples of the liberal penchant for fraudulent reporting, poorly researched articles, and doctored or misrepresented photographs used to support their position, many more. All of which , despite your claims to the contrary, are well documented and provable.
September 3rd, 2007 at 12:25 amOh, just checked and Adnan Hajj has indeed been blacklisted from Reuters as a photographer.
Micah Wright's book contracts were cancelled and his name more or less blacklisted after he admitted to lying to give his work credence (Note the contrast with Ann Coulter, who still sells books today despite the fact that she is a known liar.)
Scott Beauchamp’s stories: One was acknowledged to have occurred before Iraq, the other two were, via other sources, maintained to have happened during Iraq. Thus far not all the facts are in on it.
Okay, so so far I have checked your claims and I have come up with something startling: Unlike with Rightwing sources that have been shown to have been liars (EG: Ann Coulter's claims against the NY Times concerning a certain race-car driver) when Liberals lie about something on the news, it gets investigated and severe consequences ensue.
Indeed, unlike Fox News, which successfully made a case that as a news organisation they don't have to broadcast the truth in a civil case in 1998, the so-called liberal media has been shown to actually do something about false reporting.
September 3rd, 2007 at 4:45 amI guess the Pentagon fears soldiers who are not zombie like.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:20 amYour position seems to be a derivation of "two wrongs make a right". Just because one side is engaging in a deceptive practice does not excuse the other when they engage in the same, especially when your side has a long and established history of such activity.
I am not condoning misconduct on the conservative side, just pointing out that it appears to occur much more frequently on the left.
As to Hajj, Reuters had little choice but to black list him; he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Reuters is still at fault, at the very least, for failing to even make a passing attempt at verification before running with it. Simple journalism 101 says to second source something as inflammatory as his photo's. Just reviewing the sequence would have lead any reasonably competent photo editor to suspect foul play.
In the case of Micah Wright, he hasn't been blacklisted; just the opposite. His publishers simply re-issued the book omitting his claims of Ranger and combat veteran status. He hasn't even pulled down the site (although if you look closely he did mumble what amounts to an admission that he is a poser and a liar).
The facts are in on TNR's "Baghdad Diarist", and TNR is simply waffling about admitting they published fiction as fact. Their current excuse is that they won't back down until the Army releases all the details of Beauchamp’s sworn statement, knowing full well the Army is prevented by law from doing so. Beauchamp, OTOH, is completely at liberty to do so, but has so far refused to come forward.
The Army has issued a declarative statement, on the record, that his claims were investigated and found to be without merit.
The first allegation that TNR admitted to "discovering†was incorrect, after claiming they had "rigorously checked the facts", may not have even occurred. No has yet come forth to identify the woman, or to corroborate Beauchamp’s story. We have only TNR's "anonymous sources". And even if it did, it speaks not to how war degrades a man, but as to how degraded that man was to begin with.
The second one, the "dog" story, was also claimed to be verified by a manufacturers rep who wished anonymity. However, that rep had no problem identifying himself, or in clarifying that TNR's fact checkers misrepresented the nature of their questions, something that obviously casts doubt on Foer's integrity as it explains the real reason he was reluctant to identify that particular source.
You failed to address the other examples I mentioned, so I will assume you admit that these were either outright fabrications or that the media involved simply found something that suited their agenda and went to press without bothering to corroborate them. That is certainly the case with MacBeth, Isikoff, and Rather.
The NYT publication of the "Lebanese La Pieta" is even more problematic as it is clear that they must have known the photograph would be misleading; the same set showed the man working in the background, and those photographs were conveniently omitted.
And as I said, these are just a few, and I mean a few, clear cases where the liberal press has either failed to make the slightest effort to verify the facts before printing, or simply acted as co-conspirators in perpetrating the fraud.
If you want to make the claim that the liberal press is simply incompetent, and that time after time they are duped, but clean house when they discover they’ve been had, you might want to ask yourself why Maureen Dowd is still a columnist with the NYT. She got caught red handed, selectively cutting and pasting Pres Bush’s statements to make it appear that he said something he hadn’t.
The NYT has a long track record of this, going at least back to the 30’s when they wrote articles applauding Stalin’s Soviet Russia, while millions were starving there.
And there still hasn’t been a retraction on CBS’s “The Wall Withinâ€. You’d think that after trotting out six fake combat vets, and claiming it to be “the rebirth of the documentary†that CBS would at least mention in passing that they made a mistake. Instead they defended it, and still do.
Isikoff is still with Newsweek and now has a spot on MSNBC.
I’ll have to concede your point on Fox News, and it’s admission of bias. I’ll remember that the next time they broadcast another “Alien Autopsyâ€, or “Secrets of Al Capone’s Vault†and try not to take them at face value.
But since you brought up the subject of outrageous bias, you might want to consider Mark Halperin of ABC who wrote a memo to his news staff that it was expected they should hold Bush to a stricter standard than Kerry, even though Kerry regularly distorted the truth, took things out of context and made factual errors.
Recently Halperin has tried to distance himself from that statement, although I’m sure it is merely a coincidence that said distancing occurred just as he was accepting a position with the somewhat more conservative Time.
And in all of the examples you mentioned, action was only taken after it became obvious that damage control was necessary. Many of these liberal journalists had been fabricating stories, misrepresenting facts and submitting questionable photographs for years.
Barbara Stewart was canned in 2005 by the Boston Globe for fabricating stories, then picked up by the NYT where she still works as a columnist. In effect she got a promotion.
Jack Kelley got away with it for 13 years at USAToday, even though, as the editors later admitted, there were numerous complaints, warnings, and indications that he was misrepresenting the truth.
And I’m just getting warmed up.
If you want to take the moral high ground here, you’re going to have to at least show a better record than a three to one “fudge factorâ€.
September 3rd, 2007 at 9:36 amMBentley
There were two posts, the other one seems to have been blocked for some unknowable reason (It dealt to some extent with WMDs and just WHY the degraded ones don't count.) I'd like to know how you are managing to post such long posts though, whenever I go over a certain length the site blocks me.
Anyway my point isn't that two wrongs make a right, it is that when caught in a lie there are consequences for liberal reporters while there don't seem to be consequences for conservative ones - I would like to see more in the way of consequences for lying conservatives thankyou.
The thing of it is I work in the news industry and it isn't the liberal element that is out to get you. There is very little in the way of a real liberal media, or even much of a liberal bias in the media (You will note, the media went wild over what amounted to Clinton lying about getting a blowjob.)
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:38 amWhat there is, is a profit-driven media. The profit-driven media has cut funding to fact checking fairly drastically over the last few years in favour of trying to sensationalise non-stories in favour of higher profits. Thus you end up with a news service which largely reprints the US government's press releases and doesn't engage in much investigative journalism.
The investigative journalism that does end up in your paper is of a much poorer standard then that which is used elsewhere. Let me illustrate an example from my country (And from a related newspaper to the ones I work on.)
The Daily Dispatch in South Africa found out some startling news about Frere Hospital. Frere, had basically been run into the ground, and babies were dying. The Daily Dispatch, commonly called the Daily Disgrace up until the story in question, decided to investigate the numerous complaints that had come from this situation.
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:44 amNow, not a single claim that went into that story didn't have at least four sources behind it. The Dispatch felt that every single fact in there had to stand up in court, and that this was too important to allow errors to derail the story.
During the months it took for the story to be completed, a strike happened, and one of the journalists ended up volunteering to work in the morgue. (Needless to say, security wasn't exactly tight.)
There were hours of footage taken from that story that probably will never see the light of day - simply due to privacy issues.
Now contrast this to any of the stories you have highlighted, where a single source has been taken as being gospel, or any of a dozen examples of reports out of America's government which simply don't ask critical questions.
Where in South Africa you have a press core which is willing to take the time to get the story right, in America you have a press core in such a hurry that it takes the blogs to correct them. In South Africa you have a thriving news industry, in America your news industry is being suplanted by the growth of the same blogs which fact check them.
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:53 amOh, and if you want examples (Fairly researched and all of that) of the media going the exact opposite way:
Click on braindead media on this site under What We’re Fighting Against.
The American media isn't liberal, it is deeply flawed.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:38 amAs for the Prayer pledge for George W. -- The troops can ALWAYS use more toilet paper.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 amI can imagine this lunatic Left protesting censorship and "Loose Lips sink Ships" in the '40's........such droll little collaborators.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:44 amMr Gorton,
I took your advice and read the Braindead Media section, and with all due respect , I want the hour of my life back I spent backtracking cites. It is nothing more than a series of Op-Ed’s, the main brunt of which is a seemingly unending rant against Fox News. I got the point quickly: Dem peeples at FoxNews, dey be’s spinnin’ and spinnin’.
I did notice that the “truthiness†factor seems to be alive and well in at least one of the articles, specifically the one entitled “After Propagating False Iraq Intel, NYT’s Michael Gordon Now Echoing Bush Claims On Iran†where “Anonymous†claims that Gordon “casually dismisses contrary opinions as the complaints of some critics of Bush.â€. I checked the links and one was another article quoting Gen. Pace who stated that Iranians and equipment made in Iran had been captured in Iraq and, (while) “That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this,†Pace told reporters in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. “What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers.â€
The other “contrary opinion†(an article by Juan Cole) does not dispute that EFP’s of Iranian manufacture are being used in Iraq, only the number of soldiers actually killed by them and even in this he misquotes the article he is disagreeing with.
As to the existence of the EFP’s themselves, or the likelihood that they are Iranian in origin., there really isn’t much dispute. I have friends currently serving there, experts in the field who verify both the existence of them, the level of sophistication in their construction and the similarity to Iranian made weapons of like nature. Add to this the fact that caches of these devices are regularly found along the Iranian border and you have an excellent case that Iran is the point of origin. In short, it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, and looks like a duck.
But what I did not find was even one accusation against the conservative news media that rose to the level of misrepresentation in the few paltry examples I cited in my previous posts. Not one instance of doctored or misrepresented photographs, not one major author who had lied flagrantly about his bona fides, not one case where a conservative news story was made up from the whole cloth.
I don’t trust the conservative media for the simple reason I don’t trust any media source, but I don’t see where you’ve made your case by citing BDM. Spin/counter spin, and the reader left with nothing more than blurred vision and a queasy stomach.
Additionally, and perhaps more to the point, your claim that the liberal media lacks resources and time to adequately vet their product is almost laughable in its use as defense.
None of the examples I cited required anything more than basic fact checking (and perhaps a bit of professional integrity).
With MacBeth, a simple Google search would have immediately provided ample evidence of his fraud. There had been articles and photographs on the Internet for months showing that MacBeth was in the United States at the time he claimed he was in Iraq.
With Rather and the “Bush/ANG†story, one just had to look at the memo itself. It was composed on a word processor.
In the cases of Micah Wright and “The Wall Withinâ€, a $.39 stamp would have resolved the whole matter. Military records may be released under the FOI directly from the NPRC in Missouri.
In regards to the fraudulent photographs, it is even more obvious that lack of ethics, not lack of resources, was responsible. Any photo editor who actually took his job seriously would have spotted them. No doubt they did, but chose to go to print anyway.
With Beauchamp and TNR , their attempts at verification were so woefully inept one could not help but come to the realization that they had arrived at a conclusion then sorted the facts to fit their case, especially in view of the BFV rep’s statements. Rather than send him a copy of the article and ask for an objective analysis they chose to ask a set of general questions designed to give them the answers they wanted. Add to this the fact that Foer originally tried to keep this information out of the public eye under the guise of protecting a source.
And bear in mind, these are only a few examples. While the conservative right no doubt has it own share of spin doctors, I do not see wholesale misrepresentation on anywhere near the scale that I do on the left.
Since this will no doubt subject me to more ad hominem attacks such as the one posted by CMO and the tinfoil hat crowd, be advised I am not a Republican, a conservative, or even a Christian. I am a centrist, a strict constitutionalist, and an atheist.
As to the WMD’s and why they shouldn’t be counted I would appreciate it if you would post this information. As best I can recall, the ceasefire agreement specified “0 WMD’s†retained, not “Until existing supplies are exhaustedâ€. Not to mention that even in a degraded sate they are still capable of inflicting massive casualties.
September 3rd, 2007 at 9:53 pmJust why shouldn’t they be counted?
MBentley
First the found WMD's and why they don't count:
The weapons were degraded to the point of being almost worthless, mostly because they had been improperly disposed of.
IE: Iraq had tried to dispose of them but they had stuffed up.
Those that weren't disposed in this manner happened to have been found on the war front with Iran, and if you are going to count those you can proclaim that France has a huge stockpile of mustard gas.
Further the threat of war was based not on old stocks of degraded WMDs but on the threat that Saddam was manufacturing more of them. You are trying to move the goal posts on the case for war.
You know, take a look at O'Hanlon being called a war critic, he wasn't one. He has always supported the occupation, his trip to Iraq was sponsored and planned by the US Army (Note mentioned in his article) and nobody bothered to check anything about this up until Glenn Greenwald did.
The problem is not a matter of liberal bias, it is a matter of America's big corporate CEO's, who own the media, cutting funds to any fact checking at all.
Even a basic fact check will find a lot of errors in a lot of stories going both ways, BUT, there isn't even a basic fact check going on on most stories you read in the newspaper because funding towards that has been reduced repeatedly since the 1980's.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:09 amNote mentioned in his article
Should be
Not mentioned in his article
September 4th, 2007 at 3:31 amFrom Crooks and Liars:
September 4th, 2007 at 8:18 am"August was a disastrous month for Republicans and the Romney campaign took a huge hit when it’s national finance committee co-chairman, Alan B. Fabian was charged in a 23 count indictment, including charges of money laundering, mail fraud, perjury and obstruction of justice. It’s reported Fabian, a former Bush Pioneer, allegedly ran a scheme that netted him millions of dollars which were used to purchase beach front property and travel. The Romney campaign said they would return Fabian’s $2,300 campaign donation, but not funds donated by others through him. Fabian stepped down from Romney’s campaign shortly after his August 9th indictment — but you may not have heard much about this scandal."
Such as it is under totalitarian imperialistic regimes the empirical US is living under today...
September 4th, 2007 at 11:06 am“The weapons were degraded to the point of being almost worthless, mostly because they had been improperly disposed of.
IE: Iraq had tried to dispose of them but they had stuffed up.
Those that weren’t disposed in this manner happened to have been found on the war front with Iran, and if you are going to count those you can proclaim that France has a huge stockpile of mustard gas.
Further the threat of war was based not on old stocks of degraded WMD’s but on the threat that Saddam was manufacturing more of them. You are trying to move the goal posts on the case for war.â€
I must beg to differ with you here. In the first place the casus belli was violation of the cease-fire agreement, which specified ALL WMD’s, and all delivery vehicles exceeding certain terminal range parameters were to be destroyed, and Saddam Hussein’s continued refusal to allow unfettered access to confirm that this disarmament had indeed taken place. The only time the goal posts have been moved is when the liberal press pushed them further back.
Next, please show me where you obtained your information that the canisters found were disposed of in any way shape or form. Both Mustard Gas and Sarin are typically destroyed in high temperature incinerators so it is highly unlikely that those found were simply improperly disposed of (stuffed up as you say). Sarin may also be deactivated by the introduction of sodium hydroxide which renders it inoperable, but it is not a hit or miss affair.
The container (a 155mm artillery shell) detonated in Baghdad in 2004 was certainly not treated to any disposal procedure, stuffed up or otherwise. The only reason there were so few injuries was that the insurgents did not understand the binary activation procedure.
The term “degraded†is itself misleading. In binary form Sarin retains a 100% effectiveness rate for up to five years, and even at 50% (or even 20%) effectiveness it is still very deadly. A 155mm shell contains approximately 4 liters of agent. At 100% effectiveness .07 milligrams is an adult lethal dose. Do the math.
Your analogy of France is illogical, at least if you are referring to battlefield debris. Modern Sarin projectiles combine the binary agents in flight, and the agent breaks down in a very short period thereafter. The projectiles found so far in Iraq are unfired, still in binary form.
I want to make something clear here. I initially opposed the invasion of Iraq, but not because I felt Saddam was not a danger, rather because I believe it is a strategic mistake to open a war on two fronts unless one is forced into that position. I do not mean to sound callous, but it is less important to me if Saddam continued to oppress and murder his own people than to finish the job in Afghanistan first. Had Saddam remained in power, he would have provided a bulwark to check any Iranian desires toward asserting themselves as possible belligerents. I did not feel at the time that he had any meaningful connections with the muhabarin.
The revelation that he did in fact have ties to them (although he did not have any operational input into the events of 9/11) combined with the fact that he did posses at least some WMD’s put that position in a different light.
There is little doubt in anyone’s mind that sooner or later we would have had to deal with him; his aspirations were no secret. Should he have remained in charge, he could have, either in desperation or by design, transferred one or two of those canisters to the muhabarin, providing them with the means to conduct future atrocities against us, while at the same time affording himself plausible deniability in the matter.
I am also less than pleased with the poor performance of Phase IV. I consider this to be a major failing on the part of the administration. However, while I see much condemnation from the left over the conduct of the war, I have yet to see any reasonable alternative proposals from them.
Your statement that big media has all but cut off funding for fact checking is equally suspect. CBS, ABC, and the NYT all have a very large staff (according to their own statements) that do nothing but verify the accuracy of their reports. Even TNR has a full time staff of fact checkers. Elspeth Reeve, the wife of Scott Beauchamp, is one of them, and Franklin Foer publicly claimed that the material had been meticulously vetted prior to publication.
The same is true of 60 Minutes/CBS and CNN (in regards to “Wall†and “Tailwind†respectively). Both claimed exactly the opposite of your theory. Even were that not the case, verifying the military status of the “Wall†interviewees was pathetically easy; it is hard to believe their staff was so poorly funded they couldn’t afford a stamp, or so understaffed no one knew the address to NPRS. In the case of “Tailwind†CNN’s own military consultant objected strenuously to its airing, not because they did not have the resources to vet the material, but because they refused to consider the very valid evidence to the contrary that he provided. He later resigned in protest over the matter. CNN obviously managed to find considerable resources trying to extricate themselves after the event. Unfortunately for them, their own investigation showed where they had taken statements out of context, lead witnesses to remark in the abstract then stated those remarks as fact, used unreliable witnesses, and intentionally neglected to include the witness statements that did not corroborate their position.
In the case of the doctored photographs, no large (or even small) staff is needed; any news outlet that publishes has to have a photo editor, and all of the photographs in question would be reviewed by him (or her, as the case may be).
“You know, take a look at O’Hanlon being called a war critic, he wasn’t one. He has always supported the occupation, his trip to Iraq was sponsored and planned by the US Army (Note mentioned in his article) and nobody bothered to check anything about this up until Glenn Greenwald did.â€
Despite Greenwald's hyperbole, O’Hanlon had some justification for calling himself a critic. In 2005 he wrote a treatise on how the occupation had been badly mishandled once the Ba’athist regime was overthrown, using phrases like, “The post-invasion phase of the Iraq mission has been the least well-planned American military mission since Somalia in 1993…†, “…one of the most brilliant invasion successes in modern military history was followed almost immediately by one of the most incompetently planned occupations…â€, and ,†Unfortunately, in the Iraq operation, the U.S. defense planning system did not work. Indeed, it failed badly in planning for the aftermath of Saddam's fall from power.â€
Hardly a ringing endorsement of the administrations handling of the affair.
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/ohanlon/20050101.htm
Neither could his Op-Ed (with Jason Campbell, NYT, 2006) be called particularly enthusiastic.
O’Hanlon has also been critical of the administration demands for an increase in the military budget.
Frankly, most of the charges leveled in the opening of Greenwald’s piece could just as easily have been directed to Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry. Both of them enthusiastically supported the war in 2003.
But more to the point, this was not a matter of fact checking. Greenwald’s objection is merely a matter of semantics over how O’Hanlon characterized himself. That is quite a different thing from claiming to be a Ranger and combat veteran, to have witnessed atrocities that never occurred, or to have failed to do even the most basic verification of facts before publishing.
“The problem is not a matter of liberal bias; it is a matter of America’s big corporate CEO’s, who own the media, cutting funds to any fact checking at all.â€
On the contrary, in the examples I have shown it was more likely than not a matter of bias. In all the examples they knew, or should have known, that there were severe material flaws and they chose to rush to print anyway, then dissembled rather than accept responsibility.
And to get back to the original subject, the TP article whose comments section we are posting in is an example of bias. The article infers that the military is preventing soldiers from accessing the full spectrum of news, but this is not the whole truth. The government only blocks access on its own computers, and for a variety of reasons. Soldiers are still at liberty to view ( and comment on) sites through their own personal internet access and Internet cafes.
Speaking of censorship, what is the problem with this site? Twice now I've submitted posts only to have them disappear several hours later?
September 4th, 2007 at 5:52 pmComputer glitch, or commie conspiracy? You be the judge.
“The weapons were degraded to the point of being almost worthless, mostly because they had been improperly disposed of.
IE: Iraq had tried to dispose of them but they had stuffed up.
Those that weren’t disposed in this manner happened to have been found on the war front with Iran, and if you are going to count those you can proclaim that France has a huge stockpile of mustard gas.
Further the threat of war was based not on old stocks of degraded WMD’s but on the threat that Saddam was manufacturing more of them. You are trying to move the goal posts on the case for war.â€
I must beg to differ with you here. In the first place the casus belli was violation of the cease-fire agreement, which specified ALL WMD’s, and all delivery vehicles exceeding certain terminal range parameters were to be destroyed, and Saddam Hussein’s continued refusal to allow unfettered access to confirm that this disarmament had indeed taken place. The only time the goal posts have been moved is when the liberal press pushed them further back.
Next, please show me where you obtained your information that the canisters found were disposed of in any way shape or form. Both Mustard Gas and Sarin are typically destroyed in high temperature incinerators so it is highly unlikely that those found were simply improperly disposed of (stuffed up as you say). Sarin may also be deactivated by the introduction of sodium hydroxide which renders it inoperable, but it is not a hit or miss affair.
The container (a 155mm artillery shell) detonated in Baghdad in 2004 was certainly not treated to any disposal procedure, stuffed up or otherwise. The only reason there were so few injuries was that the insurgents did not understand the binary activation procedure.
The term “degraded†is itself misleading. In binary form Sarin retains a 100% effectiveness rate for up to five years, and even at 50% (or even 20%) effectiveness it is still very deadly. A 155mm shell contains approximately 4 liters of agent. At 100% effectiveness .07 milligrams is an adult lethal dose. Do the math.
Your analogy of France is illogical, at least if you are referring to battlefield debris. Modern Sarin projectiles combine the binary agents in flight, and the agent breaks down in a very short period thereafter. The projectiles found so far in Iraq are unfired, still in binary form.
I want to make something clear here. I initially opposed the invasion of Iraq, but not because I felt Saddam was not a danger, rather because I believe it is a strategic mistake to open a war on two fronts unless one is forced into that position. I do not mean to sound callous, but it is less important to me if Saddam continued to oppress and murder his own people than to finish the job in Afghanistan first. Had Saddam remained in power, he would have provided a bulwark to check any Iranian desires toward asserting themselves as possible belligerents. I did not feel at the time that he had any meaningful connections with the muhabarin.
The revelation that he did in fact have ties to them (although he did not have any operational input into the events of 9/11) combined with the fact that he did posses at least some WMD’s put that position in a different light.
There is little doubt in anyone’s mind that sooner or later we would have had to deal with him; his aspirations were no secret. Should he have remained in charge, he could have, either in desperation or by design, transferred one or two of those canisters to the muhabarin, providing them with the means to conduct future atrocities against us, while at the same time affording himself plausible deniability in the matter.
I am also less than pleased with the poor performance of Phase IV. I consider this to be a major failing on the part of the administration. However, while I see much condemnation from the left over the conduct of the war, I have yet to see any reasonable alternative proposals from them.
Your statement that big media has all but cut off funding for fact checking is equally suspect. CBS, ABC, and the NYT all have a very large staff (according to their own statements) that do nothing but verify the accuracy of their reports. Even TNR has a full time staff of fact checkers. Elspeth Reeve, the wife of Scott Beauchamp, is one of them, and Franklin Foer publicly claimed that the material had been meticulously vetted prior to publication.
The same is true of 60 Minutes/CBS and CNN (in regards to “Wall†and “Tailwind†respectively). Both claimed exactly the opposite of your theory. Even were that not the case, verifying the military status of the “Wall†interviewees was pathetically easy; it is hard to believe their staff was so poorly funded they couldn’t afford a stamp, or so understaffed no one knew the address to NPRS. In the case of “Tailwind†CNN’s own military consultant objected strenuously to its airing, not because they did not have the resources to vet the material, but because they refused to consider the very valid evidence to the contrary that he provided. He later resigned in protest over the matter. CNN obviously managed to find considerable resources trying to extricate themselves after the event. Unfortunately for them, their own investigation showed where they had taken statements out of context, lead witnesses to remark in the abstract then stated those remarks as fact, used unreliable witnesses, and intentionally neglected to include the witness statements that did not corroborate their position.
In the case of the doctored photographs, no large (or even small) staff is needed; any news outlet that publishes has to have a photo editor, and all of the photographs in question would be reviewed by him (or her, as the case may be).
“You know, take a look at O’Hanlon being called a war critic, he wasn’t one. He has always supported the occupation, his trip to Iraq was sponsored and planned by the US Army (Note mentioned in his article) and nobody bothered to check anything about this up until Glenn Greenwald did.â€
Despite Greenwald's hyperbole, O’Hanlon had some justification for calling himself a critic. In 2005 he wrote a treatise on how the occupation had been badly mishandled once the Ba’athist regime was overthrown, using phrases like, “The post-invasion phase of the Iraq mission has been the least well-planned American military mission since Somalia in 1993…†, “…one of the most brilliant invasion successes in modern military history was followed almost immediately by one of the most incompetently planned occupations…â€, and ,†Unfortunately, in the Iraq operation, the U.S. defense planning system did not work. Indeed, it failed badly in planning for the aftermath of Saddam's fall from power.â€
Hardly a ringing endorsement of the administrations handling of the affair.
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/ohanlon/20050101.htm
Neither could his Op-Ed (with Jason Campbell, NYT, 2006) be called particularly enthusiastic.
O’Hanlon has also been critical of the administration demands for an increase in the military budget.
Frankly, most of the charges leveled in the opening of Greenwald’s piece could just as easily have been directed to Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry. Both of them enthusiastically supported the war in 2003.
But more to the point, this was not a matter of fact checking. Greenwald’s objection is merely a matter of semantics over how O’Hanlon characterized himself. That is quite a different thing from claiming to be a Ranger and combat veteran, to have witnessed atrocities that never occurred, or to have failed to do even the most basic verification of facts before publishing.
“The problem is not a matter of liberal bias; it is a matter of America’s big corporate CEO’s, who own the media, cutting funds to any fact checking at all.â€
On the contrary, in the examples I have shown it was more likely than not a matter of bias. In all the examples they knew, or should have known, that there were severe material flaws and they chose to rush to print anyway, then dissembled rather than accept responsibility.
And to get back to the original subject, the TP article whose comments section we are posting in is an example of bias. The article infers that the military is preventing soldiers from accessing the full spectrum of news, but this is not the whole truth. The government only blocks access on its own computers, and for a variety of reasons. Soldiers are still at liberty to view ( and comment on) sites through their own personal internet access and Internet cafes.
Speaking of censorship, what's up with this site? Twice now I've posted comments that disappeared several hours later.
September 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmComputer glitch, or commie conspiracy?
You be the judge.
Was the PC blocked a "work" computer, or a MWR computer?
September 4th, 2007 at 6:31 pmApparently these are government owned "work" computers. I have a number of friends currently serving in both Iraq and Afghanistan and they cannot access certain sites on the government computers, but they have no problem with personal computers . The message would seem to indicate that as well.
September 4th, 2007 at 7:48 pmMBentley
Yeah, really critical when what he was calling for was a bigger invasion. He never questioned the rightness of the invasion, which means while he might have been critical of the handling of the war, he wasn't critical of the war itself.
Frankly, most of the charges leveled in the opening of Greenwald’s piece could just as easily have been directed to Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry.
In Hillary's case? She wasn't a war critic and she isn't a war critic. She didn't question the rightness of the invasion. In Kerry's case, he became a war critic - because people can be wrong and change their minds.
Further, it doesn't change the fact that O'Hanlon didn't mention that his trip to Iraq was planned, funded and run by the military. He was not independent in his assessment. There was nothing hyperbolic in Greenwald's assessment, it was an outright fact check that found O'Hanlon less than honest.
September 5th, 2007 at 4:19 amFurther, you are trying to use the UN to justify the invasion of Iraq when the UN did not sanction the invasion and the head of the UN at the time called it a violation of the UN's charter.
Further, you might not realise this, but the Gulf War, ended in 1991, the operational life, by your own figures, of those WMDs was 5 years - so assuming that the last shipment of them Saddam got was 1995, they would have been three years past their sell by date.
Further, had Iraq had WMDs he knew about he would have had to have been the most restrained leader on Earth because the stated aim for the invasion was to kill him, his family and his friends and...
HE DIDN't USE THEM.
As to evidence of how inferior news media fact checking can be in America: Stephen Glass, Jayson Blair, Janet Cooke etc... all went for a long period before being caught, because, you might not realise this but not every article gets fact checked, and not all of the false stories were even political.
September 5th, 2007 at 4:24 am"Can’t let the troops seek the truth or think for themselves."
NO! SOLDIERS DONT THINK THEY EXECUTE
September 7th, 2007 at 1:23 amMr.Gorton,
I don't believe you've thought through the implications of your position.
My roiginal statement concerned itself with the predomainance of less than truthful reports published in the liberal media. You're response was that they didn't have the money to check the facts.
In effect you are claiming that the liberal media does not have the ability to tell fact from fiction ( by reason of funding), placing them on same ethical plane as "The National Enquirer". Good job.
But it still doesn't explain the misrepresentations where little or no investigative effort was required, just simple verification of the basic facts.
Nor does it explain the incidences where the liberal media has claimed it perfomed extensive verifcation and still published articles which were more fiction than fact, or those in which it has been proven that they altered or ommitted highly pertinent data in order to mislead the public.
Why don't you focus your attention on this instead of trying to lead the topic adrift?
September 9th, 2007 at 10:16 pmDue to me noting the correction on the gay marriage thread I feel I can post here again.
Anyway:
MBentley
Except that the so-called liberal media doesn't exist. The Media isn't liberal in the least.
Take a look at the whole hoo-hah over Al Gore: He comes out with a successful lecture against global warming, succeeds in getting other countries to take it seriously, actually does pay over carbon offsets and makes sure that the campaign to promote An Inconvenient Truth is carbon neutral.
Then his son gets caught speeding in a frigging Prius and Gore gets called a hypocrite by the very same MSM you are claiming has a liberal bias.
Take a look at the reception CNN gave Moore's Sicko, with a 2 minute hitpiece in front of it that makes claims about things being said in the movie that actually don't appear in the movie to try and discredit the movie. He was angry in that Blitzer interview for a lot of very good reasons.
Take a look at the Patraeus worship the media is currently engaged in.
Take a look at the punditocracy, the fact that anybody ever pays the slightest bit of attention to Bill Kristol. Take a look at the whole thing surrounding Lieberman, which can easily be summed up as meaning people shouldn't fire their representatives for not representing their views.
Take a look at Time Magazine, normally on the top five lists most people mention as being a "Liberal" publication, and how it named GW Bush man of the year.
What you have noticed as being liberal bias is due not to liberal bias but due to the same perceptual error as people who claim that women can't drive suffer from: You only notice the bits that go against your ideology and you miss the stuff that goes the other way.
September 10th, 2007 at 8:50 amI guess that would depend on your definition of the terms “liberal†and “conservativeâ€. If your definition of the conservative press is any medium with a banner that doesn’t contain the words “Socialist Workers Partyâ€, then I suppose you are correct.
The NYT, TNR, and WaPo, among others, make no bones about considering themselves “Liberalâ€. CBS has had so many slanted articles that anyone to the right of Leon Trotsky would consider them liberal as well.
Still, you may be right. The liberal press may well have moved so far to the left that the word “liberal†no longer applies.
Other wise, I would say you have a healthy dose of the myopia you have accused me of contracting.
I cannot help but find humor in the fact that the example you lead off with is so illustrative of the liberal attitude.
Gore is a huckster, and his sole purpose in leading the fight against “global warming†is nothing more than a self-aggrandizing (if successful) ploy to gain national attention while at the same time fleecing the rubes who can’t be bothered with actually reading up on the issues. I notice even you have bought into his use of the term “global warming†instead of the correct (and much less misleading) “anthropogenic global warmingâ€.
Of course, "global warming deniers" makes for an excellent straw man, so I can see why, especially when "anthropogenic force" requires him to show specific evidence that man made pollution is the primary factor.
Under the circumstances, I can’t think of a more appropriate term than “hypocrite†for someone who demands the masses cut back on energy while at the same time living in a house that consumes enough to power a small village, flies to “green†rallies in a private jet, profits off of the production of persistent greenhouse gases, and claims he “offsets†them by taking money out of one of his pockets then placing it in the other.
September 11th, 2007 at 8:02 am