Excellent, thoughtful post, Dan!

Frank J, do you even know what the term fascist refers to? Obviously not because you have bought in to the spin terminology of KKKarl Rove. Fascism is defined as corporate governance so you see, by definition there is no such thing as an Islamo-fascist. Last time I checked these people seem to be religious zeolots who would like for their country to be ruled by their religion. They may be crazy fanatics but I don’t think they want to be ruled “Godless” corporations. Now George Bush on the other hand…well maybe you should know what the hell you’re talking about before you speak. As it is you are only pointing out your own massive ignarance.

Comment by missmolly
If Gore was sworn in as president as he was supposed to be, I really doubt if we would have had a 9/11. And if by chance we did, Iraq certainly would not be in the picture. Bin Laden would be captured, brought to justice and that would be that. Gore is not an oil man or part of the PNAC crowd or into empire building. If the constitution was properly followed, which it hasn’t been starting in 2000 up to now, we would not be in this downward spiraling mess.

If it was president Gore, America’s airlines would have put in place the anti-terror measures proposed by him as part of his campaign platform.

Plus chances are, with Gore’s focus on the environment, the levees in New Orleans would have been upgraded as per the recomendations of America’s civil engineers.

Actually, I think they would be yelling: “Why are you getting bogged down in Iraq??? Why not concentrate on al Quida and the ‘War on Terror’ in Afghanistan!”

Well, IF it was Pres. Gore, he would have acutally listened to the report on “bin Laden to attack in US” and there would be 3000 more citizens and a standing World Trade Center rather than a toxic hole in the ground and first-responders dying from asbestos poisoning.

Don’t forget, it was during Pres. Clinton’s term that the Millennium Bomber was captured BEFORE he bombed anyone!

that was cleaner and more concise than mine, i’d love to have someone like you be my secretary.

however, I still think its important to mention that Mr. P was the kid in kindergarden who ate bugs for money (and attention)

Another soldier’s relative trying to figure out why nothing ever changes about ‘old men sending young men out to die, to die for politician’s lies’ (Mike Harding).

Comment by veritas — August 31, 2007 @ 7:39 am

You’re wrong. They’ll spin it as an attack that was repelled. The very picture of progress. They’ll also use it to point out the threat that could be coming to a town near you if you don’t support Bush.

MissMolly, you make a good point. When the facts refuse to support the right-whiners bias, ignore the facts and continue to ask for them.

First of all, I still don’t understand how someone could think that the country they love is under such a threat. That even their FAMILY is imminently threatened by these “Islamofascists” and not join the fight against them. The military is stretched to the breaking point – there is no debate about that; and yet healthy military aged men and women who justify this occupation on the basis of the great threat will not fight to help us win. I don’t understand. I have said it before, I can only see 3 reasons for this:

1. You don’t think this country (and based on your threat analysis, your family) is worth fighting for.
2. You don’t truly believe what you are saying.
3. You are a coward who’s opinions are irrelevant because you are making your judgements irrationally based on fear.

I hear excuse after excuse, and every day I am bothered by the majority of people that go about their day as if nothing is happening. No one in this country is asked to sacrifice. The people supporting this occupation are not even willing to discuss a draft to get the military the bodies to fill the ranks that the military needs. Hell, they aren’t even willing to raise taxes to pay for it. However, they are willing to cut veterans benefits and give these patriots substandard care.

I am willing to listen to good arguments, but I haven’t heard any. At least none based in any fact. Do people actually think that I want our country to fail? Do people actually think I like seeing flag draped coffins? I am losing hope and starting to question why I care so much for this country if its own people are willing to believe a lie simply because it is more comforting.

Comment by michael — August 31, 2007 @ 12:26 am

Jack —

Funny thing about proof, an argument can be made that it’s truly a subjective thing. Despite a mountain of evidence that the earth is round (including some rather impressive pictures taken from outer space), there are people who still believe it’s flat. No amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.

As it is with the Iraq war. To “sell” the idea of the invasion, and the subsequent sustained occupation, we have been given conjecture, exaggerations, and outright lies. We have been told that A) Saddam had WMD’s, B) that Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda, C) that Saddam was getting yellowcake from Niger for a nuclear weapons program, among other things.

The link that you posted (http://thinkprogress.org/cincinnati-bungles/) debunks these lies and cites sources (there are plenty of lists like this one, but this one is well organized and easy to understand). People like michael will not accept this, because it doesn’t fit the cast-in-stone image of the situation as they see it, and it disrupts their constant drumbeat that “their guy” is right. Michael won’t offer any intelligent rebuttal of the information in the link, he’ll just dismiss the whole thing out of hand, claiming that it isn’t proof of anything (as well as throwing in a baseless wingnut attack about supporting bin Laden).

To Michael, the earth is flat. To try to convince him otherwise is a waste of time.

Let us not leave out the unanswered page from the airport that Zooey made.
Credibility and Mr Pee Dog have never met. Complete strangers.

Comment by Frank J — August 31, 2007 @ 12:26 am

What? You don’t like it when people object to you using soldiers as disposable martyrs?

Yeah.. he claimed it was a gym that had wireless internet (why would anyone at a gym need the internet?), but apparently had no access to a working phone on the weekends, in case someone injured themselves..
Barbell fell on your neck? Oh gosh, Bruce leaves the only phone locked up
in the office on weekends, sorry we can’t call an ambulance for you…

OH.. and the best part.. he didnt even know the time in the state he was supposedly in. TP’s time stamp is eastern time, and I guess Dr. Dog didnt see a clock anywhere that would have told him he was an hour early since TX is on central time.. that was the best!!! hahaahh.

Yeah, it’s so much better for the right to use dead soldiers to support the deaths of even more soldiers for a failed war of occupation and oil. Typical.

Comment by Sonny Red — August 31, 2007 @ 1:06 am

Not according to the half dozen or so other posters who verified Wayne’s story he wasn’t. There was Wayne, waiting patiently for your boy to show up, and there was your guy nowhere in sight.

Then Dr Dog further discredited himself by getting the layout of the Gym totally wrong – which was revealed by yet another poster.

Of course, the truth was never Dr Dog’s/Mr Pee’s/Sonny’s strongsuit.

any idiot can get on TP and say anything they like. the fact that you and every IP address at your moms house and your community college havent been banned on this site is proof of that.

its called an “open forum”. there are venomous people on the left and the right. im a venomous one myself, but i dont pretend to speak for anyone but myself. if a plane full of flaghumping “iraq is like indiana so keep sending your sons to die here” senators got taken out by a rocket, the only thing I’d be vaugely saddened by was the deaths of pilots who probably just thought they were avenging 9-11.

so congratualations, your desparate attempt to fill your bloated, pockmarked life with meaning is about as successfull as this “surge” your heroes undertaking.. all you have to do is beleive its true, and it will be.

for christ sakes man, wash your face, stop playing world of warcraft, and go ask that chubby but cute girl in Introduction to Philisophy 101 out on a date. It might just give more meaning to your life than the internet obviously does.

your the kid everyone remembers, the one who used to eat bugs for a dollar in kindergarden, and other than your bizarre and ever growing infatuation with the pedophillic culture of ancient greece, you really havent grown up much since then.