Comments on: GAO Chief Suggests Administration Is Cooking The Books On Levels Of Sectarian Violence In Iraq http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:08:51 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Radio Head http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4063525 Radio Head Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:12:18 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4063525 Commenters seem to be missing the point here. Now that Dems have signaled that they're not going to hold anyone accountable, and will approve whatever funds are requested, Bush and Friends need to continue to find ways to humiliate them. Not even bothering to provide a long-promised report? Sounds to me like, "Hey, I double dare you to vote against me NOW, chumps." Count on them to always be liars and bullies and you can't go wrong, but you'll still misunderestimate what sociopahs they truly are. Commenters seem to be missing the point here. Now that Dems have signaled that they’re not going to hold anyone accountable, and will approve whatever funds are requested, Bush and Friends need to continue to find ways to humiliate them. Not even bothering to provide a long-promised report? Sounds to me like, “Hey, I double dare you to vote against me NOW, chumps.” Count on them to always be liars and bullies and you can’t go wrong, but you’ll still misunderestimate what sociopahs they truly are.

]]> By: Thomas http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4061899 Thomas Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:51:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4061899 What else is new. The shrub and gang have been cooking the books on every thing sense day one. What else is new. The shrub and gang have been cooking the books on every thing sense day one.

]]> By: Hans Ansgar http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4061843 Hans Ansgar Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:36:47 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4061843 This just goes to show that ALL of the networks are just hacks in the propaganda "catapult" machinery operating on behalf of the upper-eschelon-controllers. This just goes to show that ALL of the networks are just hacks in the propaganda “catapult” machinery operating on behalf of the upper-eschelon-controllers.

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4060842 JoeCaribe Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:42:35 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4060842 and soon as we have secured our interests in the region, we will be out! The sooner the better!!! Comment by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR — September 4, 2007 @ 7:13 pm Counting on the Oil Law being passed? Keep dreaming! and soon as we have secured our interests in the region, we will be out!
The sooner the better!!!
Comment by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR — September 4, 2007 @ 7:13 pm

Counting on the Oil Law being passed? Keep dreaming!

]]> By: Leon Bloom http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4059141 Leon Bloom Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:57:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4059141 The difference in the numbers is primarily due to the General using Baghdad only, while the other figures apply to the entire country. Read the statements carefully and you'll see what I mean. The difference in the numbers is primarily due to the General using Baghdad only, while the other figures apply to the entire country. Read the statements carefully and you’ll see what I mean.

]]> By: don siegleman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4058853 don siegleman Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:15:29 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4058853 While on the topic of John Demjanjuk, someone who went to bat for him is now in the slammer: James Trafficant: http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/ While on the topic of John Demjanjuk, someone who went to bat for him is now in the slammer: James Trafficant:

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/

]]> By: Todd Dugdale http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4058250 Todd Dugdale Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:23:10 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4058250 We are told that counting car bombings would 'hand the terrorists a big victory'. Why don't we also exclude anyone killed by bullets? We don't want to hand the terrorists a victory by counting people tortured and shot, or killed in drive-by shootings, do we? Why not employ the term "terminal lead-induced paralysis" instead? It sounds like an epidemic rather than a continuous massacre on a nationwide scale. We've already seen the "good" terrorists being re-defined as 'patriots'. Perhaps we can simply <strong>re-define</strong> the word <strong>'corpse'</strong> to mean "someone who is only temporarily dead until the Resurrection", or as "those who show deficient vital functions", or merely as "residing underground for an extended period of time". Those numbers are really down now! Corruption can be termed "enhanced private-sector participation". The Iraqi military's loyalty to the individual soldier's sectarian militia can now be called 'diversely robust allegiances'. Political collapse is only "an interim re-alignment to assess alternative solutions", and genocide can now be defined as " a comprehensive security dialogue". Problem solved. The surge has fixed everything! We are told that counting car bombings would ‘hand the terrorists a big victory’.
Why don’t we also exclude anyone killed by bullets? We don’t want to hand the terrorists a victory by counting people tortured and shot, or killed in drive-by shootings, do we? Why not employ the term “terminal lead-induced paralysis” instead? It sounds like an epidemic rather than a continuous massacre on a nationwide scale.

We’ve already seen the “good” terrorists being re-defined as ‘patriots’.

Perhaps we can simply re-define the word ‘corpse’ to mean “someone who is only temporarily dead until the Resurrection”, or as “those who show deficient vital functions”, or merely as “residing underground for an extended period of time”.

Those numbers are really down now!

Corruption can be termed “enhanced private-sector participation”. The Iraqi military’s loyalty to the individual soldier’s sectarian militia can now be called ‘diversely robust allegiances’. Political collapse is only “an interim re-alignment to assess alternative solutions”, and genocide can now be defined as ” a comprehensive security dialogue”.

Problem solved. The surge has fixed everything!

]]> By: Kyle http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057962 Kyle Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:35:15 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057962 Is Norm Coleman high? Oh, right. Is Norm Coleman high? Oh, right.

]]> By: Badger http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057954 Badger Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:32:56 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057954 Spacejam..you have an interesting take on the situation. It's a version of the "declare victory and leave" strategy. Clearly , Bush cares most about vindication. His 4 years of lethal incompetence and avoiding reality should be enough to destroy his legacy, regardless of the turn of events in Iraq....but with the right PR effort , America may forget . A lot will turn on southern Iraq. The Iraqi's will have total control, once the Brits leave. If there is minimal violence, and oil flows smoothly out of Basra, A case could be made that "our job" in Iraq is over. Bush claimed to attack Iraq to fight terrorists. For four years, he lumped all insurgents together....a losing notion since Iraqi patriots will fight against occupation. Now the progress...the surge working... is narrowed to just the foreign insurgents...Al Qaeda in Iraq. Now that Iraqi's are willing to expose these forces, we are no longer fighting an Invisible enemy. This fact, plus superior firepower is the reason you can walk the streets of Falujah. If Bush will settle for a victory over Al Qaeda, and set a timetable for withdrawal to calm the fears of the indigenous insurgents, we may have a way out of there without further disaster. If he just wants to play politics with things, and keep our bases in Iraq...then I see no way out until after he leaves office...sooner or later. Spacejam..you have an interesting take on the situation. It’s a version of the “declare victory and leave” strategy. Clearly , Bush cares most about vindication. His 4 years of lethal incompetence and avoiding reality should be enough to destroy his legacy, regardless of the turn of events in Iraq….but with the right PR effort , America may forget .
A lot will turn on southern Iraq. The Iraqi’s will have total control, once the Brits leave. If there is minimal violence, and oil flows smoothly out of Basra, A case could be made that “our job” in Iraq is over.
Bush claimed to attack Iraq to fight terrorists. For four years, he lumped all insurgents together….a losing notion since Iraqi patriots will fight against occupation. Now the progress…the surge working… is narrowed to just the foreign insurgents…Al Qaeda in Iraq. Now that Iraqi’s are willing to expose these forces, we are no longer fighting an Invisible enemy. This fact, plus superior firepower is the reason you can walk the streets of Falujah.
If Bush will settle for a victory over Al Qaeda, and set a timetable for withdrawal to calm the fears of the indigenous insurgents, we may have a way out of there without further disaster.
If he just wants to play politics with things, and keep our bases in Iraq…then I see no way out until after he leaves office…sooner or later.

]]> By: bilbogaggins http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057945 bilbogaggins Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:28:10 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057945 <em>Also, there has been progress on almost half of the GAO benchmarks in only two months since the full surge began. This is dramatic progress. No wonder the Dems are backtracking on Iraq. Comment by Brassmask </em> Brasshat, you are a broken record. Why don't you give it a rest. Most people here can do the math and know the facts. So your constantly repeating this garbage does nothing other than make you look like a very big fool. Also, there has been progress on almost half of the GAO benchmarks in only two months since the full surge began. This is dramatic progress. No wonder the Dems are backtracking on Iraq.
Comment by Brassmask

Brasshat, you are a broken record. Why don’t you give it a rest. Most people here can do the math and know the facts. So your constantly repeating this garbage does nothing other than make you look like a very big fool.

]]> By: bilbogaggins http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057926 bilbogaggins Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:20:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057926 <em>"While Walker wasn’t privy to the Pentagon’s information, Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN) said he recently met with Gen. Petraeus and was shown “the data in August.” Coleman said the data is “very clear about a reduction in violence. General Petraeus has those charts,” Coleman explained."</em> And Mr. Coleman doesn't wonder why, if the statistics he saw bolster the White House's contention that violence is down, they didn't give the information to the GAO? If the statistics were good, why would they withhold them. Norm Coleman is a fool and will soon be replaced by a comedian. Ironic, isn't it. “While Walker wasn’t privy to the Pentagon’s information, Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN) said he recently met with Gen. Petraeus and was shown “the data in August.” Coleman said the data is “very clear about a reduction in violence. General Petraeus has those charts,” Coleman explained.”

And Mr. Coleman doesn’t wonder why, if the statistics he saw bolster the White House’s contention that violence is down, they didn’t give the information to the GAO? If the statistics were good, why would they withhold them. Norm Coleman is a fool and will soon be replaced by a comedian. Ironic, isn’t it.

]]> By: Not Canadian http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057894 Not Canadian Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:04:52 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057894 Aw mr. p. Where's the hate for your muslim enemys? Now you're in a hurry to leave Iraq? Man, u r the definition of a FLAKE. Aw mr. p.
Where’s the hate for your muslim enemys?
Now you’re in a hurry to leave Iraq?
Man, u r the definition of a FLAKE.

]]> By: trollbuster http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057877 trollbuster Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:56:02 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057877 It is irresponsible to accuse the White House of "cooking the books" with respect to intelligence on any subject! I am outraged! Now... pass that crack pipe, Mr. Pee. It is irresponsible to accuse the White House of “cooking the books” with respect to intelligence on any subject!

I am outraged!

Now… pass that crack pipe, Mr. Pee.

]]> By: spacejam http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057837 spacejam Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:37:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057837 Who cares. If the administration needs to cook the books to say things are looking rosy.......I say let them. If it means we can start to withdraw that much sooner...then let them cook the books. They can't leave if we keep saying they have failed. We need to help them get out of there and if that means letting them tell tall tales well then let them. Lets ask them how much better it has to get for them to leave and encourage whatever it takes. I don't care how much they lie and how much we encourage that lie if it means we can leave now. Who cares.
If the administration needs to cook the books to say things are looking rosy…….I say let them.
If it means we can start to withdraw that much sooner…then let them cook the books.
They can’t leave if we keep saying they have failed.
We need to help them get out of there and if that means letting them tell tall tales well then let them.
Lets ask them how much better it has to get for them to leave and encourage whatever it takes. I don’t care how much they lie and how much we encourage that lie if it means we can leave now.

]]> By: BobsYourUncle http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057781 BobsYourUncle Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:16:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057781 <em>Things are looking better than ever in Iraq, and soon as we have secured our interests in the region, we will be out! The sooner the better!!! Comment by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR — September 4, 2007 @ 7:13 pm</em> Ah, you got into your dad's meth stash again, didn't you Mr. Pee? Things are looking better than ever in Iraq, and soon as we have secured our interests in the region, we will be out!
The sooner the better!!!
Comment by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR — September 4, 2007 @ 7:13 pm

Ah, you got into your dad’s meth stash again, didn’t you Mr. Pee?

]]> By: upside00 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057745 upside00 Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:56:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057745 Nice to see the GAO stand up to BushCo now but where were they when we "lost" 190,000 weapons and billions of dollars worth of palleted 100 dollar bills? Maybe this is considered collateral damage, just like all those brave men and women who lost limbs or their lives to fight this hideous occupation! Nice to see the GAO stand up to BushCo now but where were they when we “lost” 190,000 weapons and billions of dollars worth of palleted 100 dollar bills? Maybe this is considered collateral damage, just like all those brave men and women who lost limbs or their lives to fight this hideous occupation!

]]> By: Krazny http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057728 Krazny Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:45:29 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057728 It is real progress Col. Jack we went from 3 to 15 of the benchmarks met in a matter of minutes. ROFL It is real progress Col. Jack we went from 3 to 15 of the benchmarks met in a matter of minutes.

ROFL

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057725 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:43:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057725 The GAO starts with 3 out of 18 benchmarks met. After the administration cooks the book, it says 8 out of 18. Then, some Bush cultist exclaims on this board: 15 out of 18, this is real progress! Bush cultists are craaaazzzzzzzy! I don't think I've ever seen anything like them in all my years of watching elections and politics. If it wasn't so scary and disquieting, it would be very funny. The GAO starts with 3 out of 18 benchmarks met. After the administration cooks the book, it says 8 out of 18. Then, some Bush cultist exclaims on this board: 15 out of 18, this is real progress!

Bush cultists are craaaazzzzzzzy! I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like them in all my years of watching elections and politics. If it wasn’t so scary and disquieting, it would be very funny.

]]> By: Krazny http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057700 Krazny Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:32:09 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057700 See thread below Nell, where they are talking of the books being cooked to show how peachy everything is in Iraq. I suppose though if it is all beer and skittles over there, we can bring out troops home now then? See thread below Nell, where they are talking of the books being cooked to show how peachy everything is in Iraq. I suppose though if it is all beer and skittles over there, we can bring out troops home now then?

]]> By: Nell http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/comment-page-2/#comment-4057695 Nell Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:30:01 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/hiding-stats-from-gao/#comment-4057695 Deaths went down in Baghdad during August in part due to a strict vehicle ban imposed on the city during a major Shiite religious ceremony. Violence dropped dramatically during the Aug. 8-12 ban. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/iraq/2003865047_iraq02.html Deaths went down in Baghdad during August in part due to a strict vehicle ban imposed on the city during a major Shiite religious ceremony. Violence dropped dramatically during the Aug. 8-12 ban.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/iraq/2003865047_iraq02.html

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