Comments on: High school student criticizes McCain on gay marriage. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:28:01 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Julia http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-3/#comment-4064940 Julia Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:33:10 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4064940 i'd like to think my post was one of the more diplomatic and unaccusing in this discussion, and thought maybe, being from concord high, i would be met with a little bit of interest because im pretty sure i was the only one in here who was there. i didnt come here to discuss the issue of gay marriage and its legality, my intent was to point out that i personally thought the student was rude, it was an embarrassment to our school, and we very well may have lost a valuable experience that we've taken pride in for a long time. i’d like to think my post was one of the more diplomatic and unaccusing in this discussion, and thought maybe, being from concord high, i would be met with a little bit of interest because im pretty sure i was the only one in here who was there. i didnt come here to discuss the issue of gay marriage and its legality, my intent was to point out that i personally thought the student was rude, it was an embarrassment to our school, and we very well may have lost a valuable experience that we’ve taken pride in for a long time.

]]> By: AlanDownunder http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-3/#comment-4062680 AlanDownunder Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:51:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4062680 Since when, in what boasts to be a free democracy, did 'not normal' equate to 'must be illegal' and 'can properly be the object of hypocritical dog whistle electioneering by closet gay GOP congressmen and their multiply-married colleagues, (eg McCain)'? How, among the hundreds of problems we need conscientious politicians to address, does what people do with their private lives that has no effect on others rate near the top of the list? Julia, you're talking as if the US is a place where differing views are openly and civilly shared, attended to, and considered. That is counter to this administration's (and its party's and its tame media's) play book. So extreme and out of whack are defenders of an administration that deserves the most strident of criticism that civility itself has become the last refuge of the scoundrel (patriotism is still up there though - in spades - with McCain prominent). When an unprecentedly secretive administration with untold lies and mistakes to its name admits to just one of them *and* honestly and rationally addresses how they happened and won't be repeated, a start will be made to a return of civil democracy. But don't hold your breath. Meanwhile, your well-meaning words might as well just be more GOP spin (and, this being the web and the GOP being the GOP, I can't even be sure that they aren't just that). The only way not to play into the hands of this mob is to call them out for all that they are. Honestly held views backed by rational argument can be civilly debated; electoral hate-mongering can only be addressed the way your class mate did - both during the session and afterwards. The issue with McCain was not the wrongness of his position; it was the dishonest adoption for electoral purposes of a position that he knows is both wrong and destructive of the civil society that you wish to revive. Since when, in what boasts to be a free democracy, did ‘not normal’ equate to ‘must be illegal’ and ‘can properly be the object of hypocritical dog whistle electioneering by closet gay GOP congressmen and their multiply-married colleagues, (eg McCain)’? How, among the hundreds of problems we need conscientious politicians to address, does what people do with their private lives that has no effect on others rate near the top of the list?

Julia, you’re talking as if the US is a place where differing views are openly and civilly shared, attended to, and considered. That is counter to this administration’s (and its party’s and its tame media’s) play book. So extreme and out of whack are defenders of an administration that deserves the most strident of criticism that civility itself has become the last refuge of the scoundrel (patriotism is still up there though – in spades – with McCain prominent).

When an unprecentedly secretive administration with untold lies and mistakes to its name admits to just one of them *and* honestly and rationally addresses how they happened and won’t be repeated, a start will be made to a return of civil democracy. But don’t hold your breath. Meanwhile, your well-meaning words might as well just be more GOP spin (and, this being the web and the GOP being the GOP, I can’t even be sure that they aren’t just that).

The only way not to play into the hands of this mob is to call them out for all that they are. Honestly held views backed by rational argument can be civilly debated; electoral hate-mongering can only be addressed the way your class mate did – both during the session and afterwards. The issue with McCain was not the wrongness of his position; it was the dishonest adoption for electoral purposes of a position that he knows is both wrong and destructive of the civil society that you wish to revive.

]]> By: Julia http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-3/#comment-4062572 Julia Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:41:23 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4062572 i'm 17, i GO to concord high school and was present when this happened, about 15 feet away actually. granted, i dont agree with senator mccain and his policies either, but i thought the student was extremely rude and disrespectful, as did most of our staff and student body. it was, quite frankly, embarrassing to have him represent our school in this way. concord high has been a popular stop for presidential candidates in the new hampshire elections...we had 7 come last school year alone, and we were fortunate enough to have senator mccain with us just 3 days into this school year. we value these candidates' visits and it's definitely a source of pride for us. typically when we host candidates we have a session at the end of the presentation where students can ask any questions they may have, which of course was when this all occurred. usually the students' questions are well-thought out and respectful, i can assure you this is the first time that anything like this happened. senator mccain was very polite and respectful to the student, saying "that's what america is all about, you have the freedom to say that" etc. after the presentation is over, students have the opportunity to meet the candidate, shake hands and address any further questions or comments. mccain actually went to find the boy and extended his hand for a handshake saying "you did a good job up there, i respect your views" and the student refused and said "i'm NOT shaking your hand." the kid had the right to express his views, yes, but he did so in a way that was uncalled for and would be considered rude to do to any person, presidential candidate or not. our phones have been ringing off the hook, and our principal is getting hate mail asking what kind of school he's running, etc. it's doubtful that we'll get any more candidates to visit, because administration is worried that kids will see the media attention this student got, and be eager to make more provocative and inappropriate statements. i can vote for the first time in next year's election, so the visits were really valuable to me, as well as my classmates. i think it's really sad that such a great opportunity has to be lost because of one person's thoughtlessness. i’m 17, i GO to concord high school and was present when this happened, about 15 feet away actually. granted, i dont agree with senator mccain and his policies either, but i thought the student was extremely rude and disrespectful, as did most of our staff and student body. it was, quite frankly, embarrassing to have him represent our school in this way. concord high has been a popular stop for presidential candidates in the new hampshire elections…we had 7 come last school year alone, and we were fortunate enough to have senator mccain with us just 3 days into this school year. we value these candidates’ visits and it’s definitely a source of pride for us. typically when we host candidates we have a session at the end of the presentation where students can ask any questions they may have, which of course was when this all occurred. usually the students’ questions are well-thought out and respectful, i can assure you this is the first time that anything like this happened. senator mccain was very polite and respectful to the student, saying “that’s what america is all about, you have the freedom to say that” etc. after the presentation is over, students have the opportunity to meet the candidate, shake hands and address any further questions or comments. mccain actually went to find the boy and extended his hand for a handshake saying “you did a good job up there, i respect your views” and the student refused and said “i’m NOT shaking your hand.” the kid had the right to express his views, yes, but he did so in a way that was uncalled for and would be considered rude to do to any person, presidential candidate or not.

our phones have been ringing off the hook, and our principal is getting hate mail asking what kind of school he’s running, etc. it’s doubtful that we’ll get any more candidates to visit, because administration is worried that kids will see the media attention this student got, and be eager to make more provocative and inappropriate statements. i can vote for the first time in next year’s election, so the visits were really valuable to me, as well as my classmates. i think it’s really sad that such a great opportunity has to be lost because of one person’s thoughtlessness.

]]> By: dreaminginthedeepsouth http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-3/#comment-4061042 dreaminginthedeepsouth Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:11:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4061042 Politicians, like standup comedians , need to learn to think on their feet and maintain sense of humor and sense of the high ground. It's not that hard to disarm a prickly questioner if you're not defensive. It's not hard to disarm, and even to get a hostile crowd on your side. Really. Interesting that the Republicans like the scripted/no questions allowed "photo ops" -- they have gotten very bad at the quick witty comeback. It's called "laziness" -- They are -- you know -- PUBLIC officials. The public goes with the job. The idea that these gas-bag politicos should be listened to in worshipful silence makes no more sense than listening to a standup comic in worshipful silence. Really. What is wrong with this frickin country? Ever watch McCain, Rudy , Bush,and others of the thin-skinned tribe try to take a VAGUELY difficult question? You can just feel the "HOW DARE YOU???" flare behind their nostrils. The hostility with which they take any question no matter how respectful. The rest of the world leaders take a lot of heat at home, and rightly so. Watch old footage of Tony Blair taking questions. It's great. I don't agree with him much, but he was a master of the comeback remark. McCain could have taken some lessons.............. Politicians, like standup comedians , need to learn to think on their feet and maintain sense of humor and sense of the high ground. It’s not that hard to disarm a prickly questioner if you’re not defensive. It’s not hard to disarm, and even to get a hostile crowd on your side. Really. Interesting that the Republicans like the scripted/no questions allowed “photo ops” — they have gotten very bad at the quick witty comeback. It’s called “laziness” — They are — you know — PUBLIC officials. The public goes with the job. The idea that these gas-bag politicos should be listened to in worshipful silence makes no more sense than listening to a standup comic in worshipful silence. Really. What is wrong with this frickin country? Ever watch McCain, Rudy , Bush,and others of the thin-skinned tribe try to take a VAGUELY difficult question? You can just feel the “HOW DARE YOU???” flare behind their nostrils. The hostility with which they take any question no matter how respectful. The rest of the world leaders take a lot of heat at home, and rightly so. Watch old footage of Tony Blair taking questions. It’s great. I don’t agree with him much, but he was a master of the comeback remark. McCain could have taken some lessons…………..

]]> By: Ira Einhorn http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4060578 Ira Einhorn Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:44:27 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4060578 Hey Billy Hill, put down that bottle of Jack Daniels, get off your sister and let's talk about leadership. The kid was right...McCain is a wannabe, not a leader. A leader wouldn't have gone all kisseeface with Bush after what Bush said about him,... Hey Billy Hill, put down that bottle of Jack Daniels, get off your sister and let’s talk about leadership.

The kid was right…McCain is a wannabe, not a leader. A leader wouldn’t have gone all kisseeface with Bush after what Bush said about him,…

]]> By: WC http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058849 WC Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:10:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058849 <em>Comment by Sparhawk — September 5, 2007 @ 8:12 am</em> Good questions. Another one for any heterosexual spouse here who opposes gay marriage: how does gay marriage affect or destroy your marriage to your significant other? Do you feel that your relationship with your husband or wife is threatened by gay marriages? How and why? Comment by Sparhawk — September 5, 2007 @ 8:12 am

Good questions.

Another one for any heterosexual spouse here who opposes gay marriage: how does gay marriage affect or destroy your marriage to your significant other? Do you feel that your relationship with your husband or wife is threatened by gay marriages? How and why?

]]> By: Sparhawk http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058830 Sparhawk Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:12:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058830 Can anyone who is opposed to civil unions help me out here....I got married outside a church, by a JOP, there was no mention of GOD in my ceremony, no prayer and no religious blessing..however, I was still required to go the the town gov. and apply for a LEGAL license so that my wife and I could have a say in the care and future of each other should one of us become incapacitated. You know simple little things like hospital visitiation rights, health insurance coverage, future of our "estate", custody of any potential future grandchildren, etc.... I fail to see how religion should prevent me and my wife from enjoying these LEGAL rights as we were given these rights by the State when they granted us a license to get married. However, this is where those asked can help me. 1) Am I really married ? ( I mean there was no GOD involved) 2) If yes, and based on the above scenario (all 100% true) do you truly advocate witholding these same rights from your fellow Americans because of your personal/religious beliefs about homosexuality ?? Can anyone who is opposed to civil unions help me out here….I got married outside a church, by a JOP, there was no mention of GOD in my ceremony, no prayer and no religious blessing..however, I was still required to go the the town gov. and apply for a LEGAL license so that my wife and I could have a say in the care and future of each other should one of us become incapacitated. You know simple little things like hospital visitiation rights, health insurance coverage, future of our “estate”, custody of any potential future grandchildren, etc….

I fail to see how religion should prevent me and my wife from enjoying these LEGAL rights as we were given these rights by the State when they granted us a license to get married. However, this is where those asked can help me.

1) Am I really married ? ( I mean there was no GOD involved)

2) If yes, and based on the above scenario (all 100% true) do you truly advocate witholding these same rights from your fellow Americans because of your personal/religious beliefs about homosexuality ??

]]> By: Trojan John http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058803 Trojan John Wed, 05 Sep 2007 08:12:08 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058803 <blockquote>What, are we going to cross the line between church and state...</blockquote> I take it you recently moved to the U.S., yes?

What, are we going to cross the line between church and state…

I take it you recently moved to the U.S., yes?

]]> By: DreamCrusher http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058671 DreamCrusher Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:36:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058671 Since when did marriage or a civil union become a right under the US Constitution? What, are we going to cross the line between church and state and force churches to give marriage to gays? Silly, silly students that have no clue. Since when did marriage or a civil union become a right under the US Constitution? What, are we going to cross the line between church and state and force churches to give marriage to gays? Silly, silly students that have no clue.

]]> By: BatJack http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058615 BatJack Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:30:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058615 Ha HA. So much for a conservative future. As the homophobic older generation dies off, the future looks brighter indeed. I say thank-you little progressive. The conservatives have already lost and they know it. They have lost the future and they are scared. I have read most of their post and they reak of fear; no plausible arguments only name calling and fear. Keep fighting the bad fight, you cannot win when the future is already against you. Ha HA!! Ha HA. So much for a conservative future. As the homophobic older generation dies off, the future looks brighter indeed. I say thank-you little progressive. The conservatives have already lost and they know it. They have lost the future and they are scared. I have read most of their post and they reak of fear; no plausible arguments only name calling and fear. Keep fighting the bad fight, you cannot win when the future is already against you. Ha HA!!

]]> By: Dennis http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058568 Dennis Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:58:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058568 I think Billy just needed another website to use that 'totally sweet middle finger' he found somewhere in the tubes of the world wide web. I think Billy just needed another website to use that ‘totally sweet middle finger’ he found somewhere in the tubes of the world wide web.

]]> By: mighty aphrodite http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058537 mighty aphrodite Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:50:17 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058537 While you can spin homosexuality as a normal life style, I doubt you know one heterosexual parent who, having their son or daughter prance out of the closet, leap for joy and start planning the commitment ceremony. Do they still love their child? Of course. Are they disappointed? You bet. While you can spin homosexuality as a normal life style, I doubt you know one heterosexual parent who, having their son or daughter prance out of the closet, leap for joy and start planning the commitment ceremony. Do they still love their child? Of course. Are they disappointed? You bet.

]]> By: WC http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058377 WC Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:03:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058377 <em>Look at you libs defend a brainless high schooler. Take away rights? No right to take away…….they don’t have them dumbsh.. Now wipe your nose and start studying your history books. What a complete fool. Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm</em> They certainly won't have any rights if idiots like you continue to be afraid of homosexuals and what their gay marriages or civil unions might do to your own marriage. Look at you libs defend a brainless high schooler. Take away rights? No right to take away…….they don’t have them dumbsh.. Now wipe your nose and start studying your history books. What a complete fool.

Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

They certainly won’t have any rights if idiots like you continue to be afraid of homosexuals and what their gay marriages or civil unions might do to your own marriage.

]]> By: WC http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058367 WC Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:01:06 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058367 McCain: <em>“I do not. I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.”</em> Oh, Bull Sh*t. The status and sanctity of my heterosexual marriage is not in any way going to be impinged upon because of the fact that the couple down the street are homosexual and seek a civil union or gay marriage. And if the a*hole had been confronted with a "please explain that statement," he wouldn't be able to. McCain: “I do not. I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.”

Oh, Bull Sh*t. The status and sanctity of my heterosexual marriage is not in any way going to be impinged upon because of the fact that the couple down the street are homosexual and seek a civil union or gay marriage. And if the a*hole had been confronted with a “please explain that statement,” he wouldn’t be able to.

]]> By: phaedra http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058343 phaedra Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:53:04 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058343 I wish the Washington Post would hire that kid! I wish the Washington Post would hire that kid!

]]> By: dbadass http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058287 dbadass Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:34:02 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058287 Another PROUD prog NEA/AFT member……. Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2007 @ 10:27 pm two out of four isn't too bad I suppose when your quessing Another PROUD prog NEA/AFT member…….

Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 4, 2007 @ 10:27 pm

two out of four isn’t too bad I suppose when your quessing

]]> By: mighty aphrodite http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058266 mighty aphrodite Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:27:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058266 "It’s these kids which keep me teaching" Comment by dbadass <em>Another</em> PROUD prog NEA/AFT member....... “It’s these kids which keep me teaching”
Comment by dbadass

Another PROUD prog NEA/AFT member…….

]]> By: tr http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058219 tr Wed, 05 Sep 2007 02:12:50 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058219 in order to become a p.o.w., you must surrender. in order to become a p.o.w., you must surrender.

]]> By: dbadass http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4058158 dbadass Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:52:25 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4058158 "When the kids are united, they will never be divided" Sham 69 It's these kids which keep me teaching “When the kids are united, they will never be divided”

Sham 69

It’s these kids which keep me teaching

]]> By: BobsYourUncle http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/comment-page-2/#comment-4057878 BobsYourUncle Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:56:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/04/high-school-student-criticizes-mccain-on-civil-unions/#comment-4057878 <em>Look at you libs defend a brainless high schooler. Take away rights? Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm </em> We're not defending you, brainless high schooler. <em>No right to take away…….they don’t have them dumbsh.. Now wipe your nose and start studying your history books. What a complete fool. Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm </em> Poor little dumbass doesn't even know what rights he has! Another reflection of the republicans read less... Start studying, son, you sound retarded! Look at you libs defend a brainless high schooler. Take away rights? Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

We’re not defending you, brainless high schooler.

No right to take away…….they don’t have them dumbsh.. Now wipe your nose and start studying your history books. What a complete fool.
Comment by Liberalismisdead — September 4, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

Poor little dumbass doesn’t even know what rights he has! Another reflection of the republicans read less… Start studying, son, you sound retarded!

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