Comment by DanCaveman — September 7, 2007 @ 11:14 am

Dem Soldier and Dan,

I find it amazing how the trolls here can pick the “flavor (reason) of the day” for our invading and occupying Iraq, then will use arguments that have no bearing on reality. Just something they can hang on to as they see their Party slipping down the slippery slope of defeat and destruction.

Kinda like building your new $600,000,000 Embassy on a bed of qucksand. Takes about the same level of planning that went into this illegal and immoral action.

I have stopped pointing out hypocrisies, it does not seem to phase those supporting this administration.

Good catch though.

#125 – “We are a sovereign country the UN is a useless institution to whom we need not go asking permission to act in our interest.” Comment by Troll — September 7, 2007 @ 11:00 am

I think these two posters need to get their talking-points in order before they begin shooting themsleves in the foot.

Then we can not use the UN resolutions as a justification to invade if we are not going to abide by the rules.

Germany was a sovereign nation too. Does that me they were perfectly justified to invade multiple countries?

You are making wonderfully off topic posts – still dodging the actual issue about troop draw down and the disastrous mistake we made.

Not to mention the only way to keep up our current levels is to institute a draft – unless all the brave keyboard warriors that are eligible and support this was finally walk down to a recruiters office and sign up for the Army or Marines. Of course, I forgot, this Occupation is SOOO important – as long as someone else is fighting.

In addition to you off topic post, it does not address the fact that our conflict in Iraq has made the US LESS SAFE, increased international terrorism, cost hundreds of thousands of lives, raped our treasury, and squandered any good will and credibility that the US carried throughout the world.

Focusing on whether you think the invasion was “legal” is irrelevant to whether it was best for the US or the world. All evidence shows that the Iraq quagmire was a mistake that has put our country in more danger than ever from enemies foreign and ESPECIALLY domestic.

But there is no “winning” a civil war, unless you take one side, and we don’t know whcih side to take, as there is no “right” side, only a sectarian battle we have no reason to be in. — I agree. I think the reason we went there (removing Saddam) wasa good reason. He’s gone…we should be leaving now.

Comment by upside00

The UN Security council did not agree to our case for invasion. We were using a UN resolution as our basis for invading Iraq, but when the UN refused to give us the green light we said we would go in anyway. We violated the will of the UN and were in just as much violation as Iraq by ignoring international precedent and law.

Sovereignty is not a sacred cow which must be worshipped unconditionally.

Yes, I have said since before the illegal invasion of Iraq and the continuing occupation, that this was another VN, and no one listened, until recently. The parallels are creepy!

The major difference is that we are fighting more factions here than we did in VN. But in both cases the population wanted us gone, with the exception of the rich, and some of the poor folks caught in the middle.

But there is no “winning” a civil war, unless you take one side, and we don’t know whcih side to take, as there is no “right” side, only a sectarian battle we have no reason to be in.

Comment by Troll — September 7, 2007 @ 10:28 am

WTF does this mean? Invade a sovereign country and say, since we didn’t obliterate it, we are benevolent invaders?

You sound more like a Hitler apologist on every post. Must come from your “Fearless” “Leader”, huh?

Comment by upside00

Upside,
if that’s true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then this is even more like VN than I ever could have suspected. See, I’m thinking that the best thing to do is leave…and let them stand or fall, but stand or fall on their own.
After watching the ARVN fail to stand on their own (and after what you witnessed, I assume there wasn’t a whole lot of surprise on your part) and watching the north move in, would you still choose to withdraw from Iraq now?
I would, honestly. I mean, stand or fall, it’s theirs to defend or surrender, not mine. Call me an uncaring SOB, but frankly…my own country’s got enough problems of it’s own that we can’t fix, why are we trying to fix someone else’s who doesn’t give a rip if it’s fixed or not?
Your thoughts?

Comment by ronjazz — September 7, 2007 @ 10:05 am

No it is you who has not the faintest idea. We could have leveled Iraq in about three weeks and had this over with but instead put our own in harms way in an attempt to minimize civilian casualties understanding the political cost associated with such a strategy. That is honor.

Practically speaking, we are clearly “at war” (in a state of international armed conflict) and have been since the initial invasion. Technically, we are still “at war” in Korea too. If anyone NOT on the “Ignore List” has a question about any of that, please let me know.

Comment by SGT Higgins — September 7, 2007 @ 10:11 am

I agree with you on this point. Just like welfare and the proposed UHC.

Which is exactly why they have no incentive to stand on their own!
“Hey, they’re gonna stand with us….until we stand on our own…..so why should we stand on our own again?”
Comment by SGT Higgins — September 7, 2007 @ 10:11 am

This was just like in Vietnam, where the ARVN only fought when we were in charge and reinforced their ranks, as they had no incentive to do anything as long as we were there. I watched them during fire fights, hiding, having a smoke while the US troops did most of the fighting.

Why doesn’t BushCo read any history? Oh, that’s right, they rewrite it to match their needs. I got it.

When I was there, our BTN was able to work with each of the companies occupying significantly less space and having a significantly smaller “footprint” in the area we worked in. Each of our line companies took a neighboring city (and established a small base of operations no larger than a police station) and head quarters stayed at an existing forward operating base with our other support units.

The Green Zone, BIAP, and the atrocious embassy we are building are daily reminders to the people that a foreign force has invaded their country and intends to stay. Although, it makes the time easier for those staying in Baghdad, it is unnecessary and counter productive to have Walmart like stores, Burger King, etc.. as well as the staff to run them all locked into this mini city that does nothing but insult the local Iraqi population.

I want to get us out as soon as possible; however, if we truly wanted to fight this insurgency correctly, it has to be done from within the communities with our forces spread out and having more interaction with the local Iraqi people. The only way to beat the insurgency is to EARN their trust and respect – that is something you can’t TAKE from them by military force.

To bad all the commanders that understood that have resigned in protest, been forced out, or too low level to have input in the situation.

Which is exactly why they have no incentive to stand on their own!
“Hey, they’re gonna stand with us….until we stand on our own…..so why should we stand on our own again?”

You came in and blew them up without regard for guilt or innocence, man, woman or child, Muslim or Christian, so don’t even try to present that bukllshit. Honor! You haven’t the faintest idea. and the “Dem” Congress is still being stonewalled and obstructed every step of the way by the surrender-monkeys of the GOP, who have put party above god and country.