Report: Massive U.S. ‘Footprint’ In Iraq Conveys ‘Permanence,’ ‘Opposite Impression Is Needed’
Report: Massive U.S. ‘Footprint’ In Iraq Conveys ‘Permanence,’ ‘Opposite Impression Is Needed’
A report released yesterday by a 20-member commission, headed by retired Marine Gen. James Jones, reported it will be at least 12 to 18 months before Iraq’s army and police can take charge.
The New York Times reports that “allies of the White House are likely to point to the report as evidence of the dangers inherent in any rapid withdrawal of American forces from Iraq, and a Pentagon spokesman said today that the administration remained committed ‘to stay as long as it takes to get the Iraqi Army back on its feet.’”
But a closer inspection of the report reveals that the Jones commission is hardly in favor of maintaining the escalation in Iraq. On page 128, the report explicitly warns that the “massive” U.S. military occupation of Iraq is conveying the impression of “permanence.” The report goes on to recommend “significant reductions” in the “size of our national footprint in Iraq”:
Perceptions and reality are frequently at odds with each other when trying to understand Iraq’s problems and progress. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the impressions drawn from seeing our massive logistics “footprint,” our many installations, and the number of personnel (military and civilian), especially in and around the Baghdad region. The unintended message conveyed is one of “permanence”, an occupying force, as it were.
What is needed is the opposite impression, one that is lighter, less massive, and more expeditionary. The decision to occupy Saddam Hussein’s former palace complex with our military headquarters, while expedient in 2003, has most likely given the wrong impression to the Iraqi population. We recommend that careful consideration of the size of our national footprint in Iraq be reconsidered with regard to its efficiency, necessity, and its cost. Significant reductions, consolidations, and realignments would appear to be possible and prudent. [p. 128]
The recommendations of Gen. Jones echo the comments made by White House “war czar” Gen. Doug Lute prior to his appointment, when he said: “You have to undercut the perception of occupation in Iraq. It’s very difficult to do that when you have 150,000-plus, largely western, foreign troops occupying the country.”
Disregarding the advice and concerns of these generals, Bush has said he plans to largely maintain troop levels, and the White House has aggressively pursued the construction of an “embassy-fortress” in Baghdad. Constructed with slave labor, it is of the “largest and costliest” embassies in the world. “The 65-acre compound will be largely a world unto itself, insulated as much as possible from problems that plague the rest of Baghdad.” Photos of the $592 million embassy below:
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having a pool in a country whose capital city has trouble providing its citizens with clean drinking water is a really great idea.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:05 amWhy do the generals want reductions ? Are they cut and runners? :)
September 6th, 2007 at 10:05 amWhat’s one more report? September is a month of reports. Let’s wait and see what the generals on the ground have to say. blah blah blah. As you were, men. Surge on.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:06 ami hurt my foo foo.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:08 amAir Strike in Baghdad Kills 14 Sleeping Iraqis,
what a cowardly way to act, if your after someone go in there and get them DONT just bomb the whole street
September 6th, 2007 at 10:09 amIf you post pictures of the pool in the embassy, then (for some reason) you’re emboldening the terrorists… unless you invite them to a pool party.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:09 amIraqi army? doesnt exist… BUSH DISBANDED…. Iraqi police? doesnt exist CORRUPT TO THE CORE… BUSH DISBANDING.
is it impeachment:30 yet?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:13 amwaiting for the trolls to explain this one away….im sure they aren’t going to call generals the same names that they do those of us around here who advocate the same thing….
should bush listen to these general trolls? or is patraeus the only magic general?
I wander what methead meagan afrodite’s angry spacebar challenged rant is going to look like on this one…. “libsputswordsingeneralsmouthslikerepublicancongressmanputtheirpeepeesinthemouthoflittleboys…”
September 6th, 2007 at 10:14 amGuess Dubya wants to leave his feces mark all over Iraq, just like the Romans did when they invaded other countries. One difference is, some of what they left behind were positive and enduring. Dubya’s ………. Not so much!
September 6th, 2007 at 10:16 am>If you post pictures of the pool in the embassy,
> then (for some reason) you’re emboldening
> the terrorists…
Obviously you have heard of the horrible new WMD the terrorists have…pool toys made of C4…. Weapons of Mass Duckstruction.. QUack Quack..!!! hurk…
WILL ANY OF OUR POOLS BE SAFE?
(Nobody let the iraqis know it isnt a giant urinal)
September 6th, 2007 at 10:17 amThis is bullshit. It has been 12 to 18 months before the Iraq military can take command practically since the day we invaded. The Iraq military is never going to be capable of taking command as long as we are there to do the job for them. We need to leave NOW and let them work it out for themselves. A baby will never learn to walk as long as the parent picks them up and carries them.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:19 ami hurt my foo foo.
Comment by Jake D.
And this person wants us to believe that he is a Stanford graduate and a qualified attorney in California. Sorry, I don’t buy it.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:20 amWhat bothers me about this is that Congress knows that a chunk of the money they are authorizing for Iraq is going to the monstrous embassy and to the permanent bases. If the Democrats in Congress truly want us out of Iraq, they should be refusing to allow one more dime to go towards the embassy and the permanent bases. They should come out and publicly state that they will no longer support any money for these purposes.
As long as we prove to the Iraqi people that we never intend to leave, they will continue to fight us to drive us out of their country. It is their country you know. We have no right to it and we have no right to establish permanent bases there. The purpose of these bases is to protect the oil fields once we take control of them.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:25 amHas anyone noticed that the insurgets got up and going right off the bat? But the army and police we’re traing has been 5 years and needs another year- year 1/2. WTF???
September 6th, 2007 at 10:25 amIs the full report available anywhere online?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:26 am>you’re emboldening the terrorists…
>unless you invite them to a pool party.
Right.. considering the people we are paying off not to attack us in Anbar are dyed in the wool saddamists, we pretty much ARE inviting a large percentage of the insurgents to a pool party..
maybe we can spring Chemical Ali from jail to keep
the pool chlorinated. :)
I think its hilarious, absolutely hilarious that Bush + Co are now crowing, bellowing, braying, that “we’re making progress in AL-ANBAR”… “we finally bribed the backbone of saddam’s regime to stop attacking us”…”finally, we are able to claim, with no small degree of irony, that the majority of casualities and attacks against us are coming from the shia we liberated from saddam!” yay! this is progress….
make no mistake trolls, if you went in to take out saddam, these guys were loyalists who had just as much blood on thier hands as saddam…
Do you numbnut trolls REALLY beleive that Saddam and his 3 wicked sons tyranized all of iraq by himself and everyone else was just being helplessly enslaved? nope.. not at all. these sunnis were saddam’s tribesmen, his enablers and supporters.. and now they’re our buddies again, just without a bad hollywood B movie dictator to make them seem more sinister…
some of them just got done shooting at us, ya know?
so I guess we DO negoatiate with some terrorists, huh?
can somebody please explain to me the criteria by which we determine which terrorists we should negotiate with and which we shouldnt?
is it in the playbook somewhere..
September 6th, 2007 at 10:27 amBut but but…I thought we couldnt trust the generals?
Poor Petraeus, shuffled to the back for a general that the libs like better.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:28 amHas anyone noticed that the insurgets got up and going right off the bat? But the army and police we’re traing has been 5 years and needs another year- year 1/2. WTF???
Because the terrorists dont need much training to drive car bombs into markets or hack off people’s heads; I dont think they are much concerned if their tactics kill innocents.
WTF indeed.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:30 amHas anyone noticed that the insurgets got up and going right off the bat? But the army and police we’re traing has been 5 years and needs another year- year 1/2. WTF???
Comment by Donald — September 6, 2007 @ 10:25 am
Short and simple answer: it’s a lot easier to knock the dominoes down than to set them up.
More complicated answer: insurgents only need loyalty to one faction or tribe. Police and soldiers need to be loyal to the nebulous concept of “Iraq,” no matter what their political or tribal background. And when they can make significantly more money setting up roadside bombs than they can being the targets, it’s easy to see wht so many Iraqi police and soldiers would defect.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:31 amGen. Lute states that “You have to undercut the perception of occupation in Iraq.” That perception can never be undercut as long as the U.S., as he puts it, has “150,000-plus, largely western, foreign troops occupying the country.” The general would be wise to realize that what he views as a perception on the part of Iraqis is very much a reality that they are faced with every day when they see an American soldier walking down their street in battle fatigues and carrying an assault rifle in his hands. One suspects Lute would feel a lot differently if over 150,000 foreign troops were occupying this country and that the presence of those foreign troops in the U.S. would be viewed as being definitely an occupation instead of a “perception.”
September 6th, 2007 at 10:32 amObviously you have heard of the horrible new WMD the terrorists have…pool toys made of C4…. Weapons of Mass Duckstruction.. QUack Quack..!!! hurk…
Comment by Chocolate Jesus — September 6, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Oh, that’s certainly some fowl play.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:32 am#17 – how many commanders has bushco shifted?
thought so….. why didnt you take the job as war czar?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:33 amPoor Petraeus, shuffled to the back for a general that the libs like better.
Comment by LibTeenie — September 6, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Try making a “real point” sometime, Libbi. You’ll find it to be a novel, refreshing experience, I guarantee.
Why do “real points” hate America so?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:39 amPoor Petraeus, shuffled to the back for a general that the libs like better.
Comment by LibTeenie — September 6, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Many of the honest generals and Admirals have taken retirement because they couldn’t follow the Codpiece-in-Chief’s bidding.
The ones that are left are afraid for their jobs and want to survive long enough to get that other star before they retire.
Only those that are blind followers will be tolerated by Dubya and Darth’s little NeoCon Nation-stealing experiment.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:39 amThe occupation has always been permanent.
http://www.leftopia.blogspot.com/
September 6th, 2007 at 10:41 am>But but but…I thought we couldnt trust the generals?
Not trusting “A specific general” is not equivlanet to distrusting all generals.
Petraeus was used as a prop for the Bush admin for years, constantly talking about “progress” and “turning the corner”.. what possible evidence do we have that he’s dispensed with those pollyanish assesments and is actively seeking out different ideas?
Can you point to one statement hes EVER made that disagreed with something the administration believed? Can you distinguish ANY of his opinions or insights from those of the white haus? At least people like Gates had the b@lls to come out and say “we arent winning”..hes not my favorite guy but i credit him for having some degree of inpedence…..
Notice a pattern of turnover around here when it comes to high ranking miliary men? Generals that dont say the things bush + co want to hear get canned. It started with Shinseki. He very accuratedly estimated we needed alot more troops to secure iraq than rummy’s masterplan entailed. He got canned. I’m sure one of my fellow TP’s can run down some more generals who have publicly disagreed and then sudenly got dropped by Dumbya….
September 6th, 2007 at 10:42 amLibTeenie will not acknowledge any military opinion other than the one that’s scrubbed by the White House.
The mission is unclear. The objectives (benchmarks) are not being obtained. Our military is being viewed as occupiers. Billions in treasure and thousands of our bravest have been lost for what?
this administration is great with slogans like “The Surge, Cut and Run, Mission accomplished, War on Terror and GWOT to mention a few. But this administration is terrible with execution of plans and focus.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:42 amI dont think they are much concerned if their tactics kill innocents.
WTF indeed.
Comment by LibTeenie — September 6, 2007 @ 10:30 am
Sadly, the exact same statement can be made about Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et al. WTF, indeed, Li’l Libbi????
September 6th, 2007 at 10:47 amWhy is disaster in Iraq a threat to America when nobody’s concerned about the ongoing disasters in Sudan, Somalia, Kashmir, and the dozen other lawless places on Earth?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:51 amI know let’s sell corporate sponsorship to our embassies. How bout the Halliburton Iraqi Compound. Or maybe the Exxon Mobile Sunni Dome?
September 6th, 2007 at 10:51 amWe should compile a list of how many generals bush has gone through, so we can cut and paste every time a trolls says “b-b-b-u-t why dont you trust petraeus”?
And to be honest, when they come from the political party that equates dissent with treason, I consider the act of disagreeing very signifigant and very telling about a person’s character. imagine what kind of behind the scenes flak Bapstiste, a dyed in the wool republican, must have gotten from many of his former associates after writing that editoral and appearing in the votevet ads. Brave guy.. these days, being a republican and showing you have the courage to disagree with your fellow partymember is an act of courage unto itself…thank god some right wingers are brave enough to stand up and tell the emperor he has no clothes…
September 6th, 2007 at 10:52 amUS Military has never left Germany, and WWII has been over for over 60 years, so US government intends to stay in Iraq for many years until every last drop of OIL is sucked out of the ground.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:54 amComment by bilbogaggins — September 6, 2007 @ 10:19 am
#11
I completely agree. It’s always ‘12-18 months” before the Iraqi military and police can do the job on their own. It always WILL be. And yet we’re still there…waiting on them to get their sh*t together. Why the hell should they? We keep telling them we’re with them, we’re staying until they can do it on their own. Where’s the incentive in that for them to EVER do it on their own?
“Hey Joe, didja hear that? The Americans are staying until we do it for ourselves. What do ya say we just keep flubbing it and let THEM go out there and get blown up every day?”
“Gee Bob, sounds like a good idea to me.”
The Iraqi’s will NEVER choose willingly to do what they consider to be OUR bidding. It doesn’t matter how rosy a picture we paint about this being for their own good, they see US doing it and hey! They don’t have to.
Tough Love is what they need. Ok guys, we’ve spent 4.5 years taking away your weapons, giving them right back to you, and then teaching you how to use them…. and even taught YOU the tactics WE used to defeat you to boot. (brilliant fu*kin’ strategy! Job Security?)
Time to up & leave. Period. If they make it on their own, just think how proud we, as a nation, can be. Yay! (sarcasm) And if they fall flat on their faces….we can hold our collective breath as we HOPE they get up and try again…on their own. Why does this sound like teaching a kid to ride a bike? Hate to use the analogy, but I think it’s appropriate.
OMG, I could go on for hours here.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:55 amDuh Fuhrer listens to his generals.. and if he doesnt like what they say, he listens to them falling down his trapdoor, and then listens to a new one…
So its true.. he does listen to his generals. At least listen for them to hit the bottom…
September 6th, 2007 at 10:55 amGen. Petraeus designed “The Surge” and from what I remember about Generals during my time in the service is they are egocentric and hard headed. The Gen. wants his plan to work to prove to the world he’s right. He’ll push and twist information to show the best light possible.
The military success is only a portion of what needs to be accomplished to get Iraq on the correct path. The political process in Iraq isn’t seeing any real guidance. All sides are biding their time looking for their advantage over the others.
We could leave our military there for 20 years and there still won’t be stability. Gen. Petraeus will be long gone by then and our soldiers and marines will still be dying.
September 6th, 2007 at 10:59 amPerception is where is the money for America’s bridges, schools, healthcare for the children? Bush needs to take his family and relocate to his favorite place, Iraq. He needs to leave anyway, he is running out of people to blame for his insane incompetence.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:00 amI wrote the architects of the project to ask them if there were going to be torture rooms in anywhere in the embassy compound, but I never heard back. Here are the numbers, in case anybody else has better luck:
Berger Devine Yaeger, Inc.
3700 Broadway, Suite 300
Kansas City, MO 64111-2506
USA
Phn: 816-561-2761
Fax: 816-561-9222
marketing@bdyinc.com
accounting@bdyinc.com
Carl J. Yaeger
President
cyaeger@bdyinc.com
Patrick K. Lenahan
Vice President
plenahan@bdyinc.com
Robert E. Campbell
Vice President
bcampbell@bdyinc.com
Robert E. Smith
Senior Project Manager
rsmith@bdyinc.com
Max K. Roberts
Director of Marketing
mroberts@bdyinc.com
Jerry Adams
September 6th, 2007 at 11:11 amDirector of Operations
jadams@bdyinc.com
I’m trying to picture the poor schmuck who is serving in Iraq for the second time (or more) with insufficient stateside between the tours; his tour extended; his enlistment involuntarily extended by the “stop loss” and now seeing that Shrub plans a permanent “Surge”.
Bet he’s gonna be real anxious to sign the re-enlistment papers!
Also, by congressional definition from the past few days’ reaction to the GAO, anyone who opposes the Surge obviously has no military experience and cannot comment. By definition, General Jones therefore has no military experience.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:14 amOnly the decider will decide what will be done in Iraq. No one can tell him what to do or he will not take his nap. Can anyone get rid of this idiot before his term is up? Good grief we still have 502 days left !!!!
September 6th, 2007 at 11:30 amHere’s an ‘opposite impression’…
It has been proven before that that region has something, some weird resilience that prevents it easy annexation. One might be tempted to aver that it has something to do with the longevity of the collective-consciousness that persists there. Someone in some other thread pointed-out the failure of the British to annex the region earlier in the last century.
The soft-center would need to collapse before there can be any semblances of a constructive structure to spring from the ashes of it. Our current policy in Iraq, and any policy BTW, does not possess the wherewithal to stop this imminent collapse. Defeatist? Well…
The essential Iraqi Culture comprising of the various groups is by no means holding firm if we are to believe those sources we have been told to believe. My analogy of the new embassy building is akin to an ambitious builder who persists in the development of his ‘house on the hill’ right in the eye of a wild young-storm with the ground around him fast filling-up with water from the non-abaiting pelting-down deluge of rain.
Were the benchmarks, as they were initially codified met? According to the GAO, they were not met. Gen. Petraeus’s report is supposed to dispute the GAO. According to Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (GOPr-FL)’s grilling of the GAO, the ‘A’ in GAO should _only_ represent ‘Accounting’ as it relates to money. I agree with her a hundred that the GAO should be overseeing the disbursement of the resources of the Government. If your child comes to you several times within a short period for money, will there not come a time when you’d want to know what your child spends the money on? No? Oh, I forgot you’d just want your child to figure it out for themselves just as assignment in futility or for fun. Nice spreadsheet in the morning, pretty-charts galore!
Look, no American is cold-hearted as to want to see the endless destruction of Iraqi lives and property continue, no matter what the GOPrs might say. We however have to face reality. Do we throw more troops into Iraq, thereby annexing it for all intents and purposes? Or do we ‘hold’ with the same number of troops and keep the carnage going for a little while longer before even nothing can hold it from collapsing? How about pulling back?
Before accusations of ‘kooks’ start to fly, THAT IS THE ONLY OPTION WE HAVE NOT TRIED.
So for an ‘opposite impression’, this is my theses!
September 6th, 2007 at 11:32 amThe pool would be a great place to hold conferences for the fantastic freedom institute that W is planning.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:32 amThe other problem is that the graphics rendering looks like Sims circa 1999.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:36 amThe other problem is that the graphics rendering looks like Sims circa 1999.
Comment by clb72 — September 6, 2007 @ 11:36 am
I thought the same thing. Either the company we’re paying to design the embassy doesn’t use its no-bid money to pay for a decent graphic designer or else the base was actually designed circa 1999 by PNAC and was just waiting for the right guy to put their plans into action!
September 6th, 2007 at 11:51 amHow is it that we could create a multi-million solider army out of nothing in both WW II in 12-18 months, but can’t create a much smaller Iraqi army in 4 1/2 years now?
September 6th, 2007 at 11:59 amThe other problem is that the graphics rendering looks like Sims circa 1999.
Comment by clb72 — September 6, 2007 @ 11:36 am
You mean there won’t really be a Baghdad arcology that can launch itself into space if the situation on the ground gets out of control?
Bummer!
September 6th, 2007 at 12:08 pmThis is a Republican…
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070905/i/r3125697393.jpg?x=220&y=345&sig=DB9Q9UI2PpUEoe2lZ_1mtQ–
September 6th, 2007 at 12:13 pmYou mean there won’t really be a Baghdad arcology that can launch itself into space if the situation on the ground gets out of control?
Bummer!
Comment by toasterhead — September 6, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Do you remember the time “Tracy” argued endlessly about the validity of putting a vast, shatter-proof, protective cover over the swimming pool?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:29 pm“is it impeachment:30 yet?
Comment by Fan_of_Man — September 6, 2007 @ 10:13 am”
Nope. There’s no talk of impeachment anymore…except for among the kook left.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:36 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — September 6, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Define “kook left” in exact terms, please, or are you goint to admit you have NO F*CKING IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT?
Wait, wait… just find some old stats and distort them. No one will believe you, but you’ll feel so much better about yourself!! ;-D!
September 6th, 2007 at 12:40 pm“We could leave our military there for 20 years and there still won’t be stability. Gen. Petraeus will be long gone by then and our soldiers and marines will still be dying.
Comment by hellinabucket — September 6, 2007 @ 10:59 am”
Baloney. We still have over 40,000 military stationed around Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. How long ago did WW2 end?
I would also say that Germany is pretty stable nowadays, and has been for many decades. Are you saying that Iraqis aren’t as good as the Germans, so the Iraqis don’t deserve our support?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:44 pmAre you saying that Iraqis aren’t as good as the Germans, so the Iraqis don’t deserve our support?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 6, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
Irrational, dishonest analogy, but hye, when did you EVER care about “the truth”?
Why does “the truth” hate America so?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:47 pmHow do we stop Bush from starting his new war on Iran?
Since the Democratic Leadership is 100% behind it, including Clinton and Obama plus all DEmocratic Santors, what can be done to prevent it?
September 6th, 2007 at 12:48 pmSince the Democratic Leadership is 100% behind it, including Clinton and Obama plus all DEmocratic Santors, what can be done to prevent it?
Comment by Comrade Rutherford — September 6, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
100%? A little valid substantiation please.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:51 pmBTW, what’s a “Santor”???
September 6th, 2007 at 12:53 pmI would also say that Germany is pretty stable nowadays, and has been for many decades.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
O.B.,
September 6th, 2007 at 12:54 pmWe’re still in Germany because of the logistical advantages. Being an ocean closer to the Middle East and the rest of the world cuts down on shipping costs. That’s just one reason off the top of my head, I’m sure there are others.
“Define “kook left†in exact terms, please, or are you goint to admit you have NO F*CKING IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 6, 2007 @ 12:40 pm”
I certainly know what I am talking about, but I feel no need to define “kook left”. I am pretty sure you know what I am talking about.
However, here’s a few key indicators of “kookiness” among the left:
Muttering “impeachment, impeachment” over and over ad-nauseum, until no one is listening anymore.
Desperately wishing for U.S. defeat in Iraq.
Bush Derangement Syndrome, which can easily by determined by folks who blame Bush and the United States for all the world’s problems. I.E.: Global Warming, hurricanes, terrorist acts by members of Islam, high gas prices, bird flu, Al Gore’s fall into obscurity, etc.
Blasting General Patraeus’ report before it’s even released, and calling him “Bush’s lap dog”, when he was unanimously approved by EVERY member of congress…Democrat AND Republican, liberal AND conservative.
Hoping for a government takeover of the medical system in the United States, at the very same time lambasting that very government as inefficient, corrupt, and ineffective.
Shall I continue? I have more…
September 6th, 2007 at 12:57 pmWe’re going to be there forever, and as long as propaganda like this continues there will indeed be ‘no end in sight’
Look at this offensive nonsense from last night! Unbelievable…
Freedomswatch.org Iraq Ad
http://beta.redlasso.com/Community/ClipPlayer.aspx?i=d71ed277-a8f7-49cf-90cf-418956923f9f
Freedomswatch.org Iraq Ad #2
September 6th, 2007 at 12:57 pmhttp://beta.redlasso.com/Community/ClipPlayer.aspx?i=3bf073fc-93bd-46d2-8824-421254789dda
certainly know what I am talking about, but I feel no need to define “kook leftâ€. I am pretty sure you know what I am talking about.
Thank yu for acknowledging that. You don’t know what you’re talking about. it’s about time you owned your own ignorance!
I wish we could impeach the lyin’ little SOB too, but as long as the GOOPers in Congress are willing to abet the monster, it ain’t gonna happen. I still want it to happen, and will continue to do so. How are the Neuticlesâ„¢ workin’ out fer ya?
September 6th, 2007 at 1:00 pm“O.B.,
We’re still in Germany because of the logistical advantages. Being an ocean closer to the Middle East and the rest of the world cuts down on shipping costs. That’s just one reason off the top of my head, I’m sure there are others.
Comment by SGT Higgins — September 6, 2007 @ 12:54 pm”
Agreed. And having a buffer against the then-Soviet Union and it’s Berlin Wall was probably another reason. And considering the current Russian sabre-rattling, keeping our military there is probably wise.
Long term, taking into account that the current terrorist threat is primarily of middle-eastern origin, having the same logistic advantage there sounds like a good idea also.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:03 pmhaving the same logistic advantage there sounds like a good idea also.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 6, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Riiiight… stop the guys w/ BOXCUTTERS over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:09 pmI am watching this jerk on CSPAN, and he seems to be the new mouthpiece for Bush. Why does everyone Dem or Repukes spend half their alloted time kissing ass, saying how much they appreciate their work, how they admire the troops, blah blah blah….and then they run out of time to get to any important point.
jack jett
September 6th, 2007 at 1:09 pm“100%? A little valid substantiation please.”
The vote on the Lieberman bill was 98 – 0 in the senate.
Both top democratic front-runners advocate aggressive postures against Iran, despite Iran being within the law in it’s actions regarding nuclear materials. (There is no basis in law for attacking Iran.)
No one in any position of leadership in the Democratic Party is saying or doing ANYTHING to counter Bush’s imminent attack, any comments made by and Dems is only to agree that Iran is a target.
Do you have any “valid substantiation” that any Democratic Leader is against attacking Iran?
Didn’t we used to hang Nazi’s for starting illegal wars of naked aggression, just like we used to hang Japanese military for waterboarding prisoners?
I accuse the Democratic Leadership of assisting the GOP in turing the US into a fascist police state. The evidence of this is Empirical, just look around the nation.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:09 pm“We’re still in Germany because of the logistical advantages.”
We are still fielding our miltiary around the world simply for war profiteering.
More than 50% of the US budget is welfare for military hardware manufacturers, and yet I still see uninformed GOPers sporting those ‘millions on wlfare depend on you’ bumper stickers, when social welfare is such a miniscule part of the entire budget.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:13 pm“Thank yu for acknowledging that. You don’t know what you’re talking about. it’s about time you owned your own ignorance!
I wish we could impeach the lyin’ little SOB too, but as long as the GOOPers in Congress are willing to abet the monster, it ain’t gonna happen. I still want it to happen, and will continue to do so. How are the Neuticles™ workin’ out fer ya?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 6, 2007 @ 1:00 pm”
No ignorance here, and you already know that. However, I will acknowledge my superior intellect, and any time you feel the need to avail yourself of it, just ask. I will be more than happy to give you the truth any time you need it, if I am around. I’ll try to not to crush you, excessively.
However, it’s also good to know that you own up to your membership among the “kook left”. It’s time for more of you to “come out of the closet”, as it were, an acknowledge your “kookiness”. It’s good to not take yourselves too seriously, and good to sometimes tilt at windmills.
As far as President Bush being impeached: You are correct. There will be no impeachment, since President Bush has broken no laws, and has been an honorable and upstanding President, which has been a welcome change from the previous 8 years. A “breath of fresh air” so to speak, to have a President who stands his ground, and believes in what he is doing, regardless of whether I agree with every point or not.
But don’t give up your dreams! We could all use a little “daydream believin’”, eh?
September 6th, 2007 at 1:17 pm“I accuse the Democratic Leadership of assisting the GOP in turing the US into a fascist police state. The evidence of this is Empirical, just look around the nation.
Comment by Comrade Rutherford — September 6, 2007 @ 1:09 pm”
You were presenting a good, albiet faulty, arguement there, until you got to the part above…then you merely joined the ranks of the “kook left”.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:21 pmI guess if jews can steal/occupy someone else’s land. So can the U.S.
Israel=9/11
September 6th, 2007 at 1:32 pmthen you merely joined the ranks of the “kook leftâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 6, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Sorry, he’s one of yours, part of the “kook right”!
September 6th, 2007 at 1:40 pmI’ll try to not to crush you, excessively.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 6, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
And an overly active fantasy life, to boot!
Gonna whip out yer… distorted statistics for us, *sshole?
September 6th, 2007 at 1:41 pmJeebus, I am so getting tired of the comparisons of our Iraq occupation and our military basing in Germany and Japan. There is no validity to this position.
We aggressively invaded Iraq and have now occupied the country for four plus years. We have tried to redo their economy by taking over industries and replacing existing infrastructure/technology with that of US Corporations. (Violating articles of the Geneva Conventions relating to occupations) We are trying to take over the oil industry, but are meeting stiff resistance to this effort.
Iraq has a long and storied history of throwing out foreign armies that have attempted to do what we are doing. They will throw us out as well. It’s just a matter of time, treasure and US military lives and limbs.
I say, get out while we can, before we have to fight our way to Kuwait and leave billions in military hardware behind.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:55 pmNeo-cons wants a pool, the neo-cons get a pool. Only Israel benefits from these endless Middle East wars. Iraq is the beginning. As we commit war-crimes in Baghdad, the US gov’t commits treason at home by opening mail, eliminating habeas corpus, using the judiciary to steal private lands, banning books like “America Deceived” from Amazon and Wikipedia, conducting warrantless wiretaps and engaging in illegal wars on behalf of AIPAC’s ‘money-men’. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran.. Then we’ll invade Syria, then Saudi Arabia, then Lebanon (again) then ….
September 6th, 2007 at 3:17 pmFinal link (before Google Books bends to gov’t demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)
That new embassy with its fancy-schmancy swimming pool and other goo-gaws looks like it will be a fine place…to run and seek cover from incoming mortar rounds. All that money (over)spent on froo-froo stuff destined to be pocked or rubbled with 80mm and 120mm mortar shells into the foreseeable future.
Criminals and idiots designed that monstrosity.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:37 pmDidn’t I see that place on MTV ‘Cribs’ recently.
BLING-BLING!
September 6th, 2007 at 4:27 pmFor those of us who are fans of Science Fiction, the parallels between the Bush administration’s giant pool in Iraq and the Nazi-esque Harkonnen botanical garden on Arrakis in Dune is nothing short of extraordinary.
This is a deliberate provokation and overt symbol of white power domination of Mesopotamia.
Not surprising coming from the grandson of Nazi collaborator Prescott Bush.
Peace
September 6th, 2007 at 4:49 pmNothing here but unhinged liberal bias and hate.
September 6th, 2007 at 6:43 pmWhen I said, “I accuse the Democratic Leadership of assisting the GOP in turing the US into a fascist police state. The evidence of this is Empirical, just look around the nation.”, I was then accused of being a ‘kook’ of either the left or the right.
But what I said is entirely true.
Why else does the Border Patrol stop every car on the interstate within 100 miles of the border? To get people used to police check points on the roadways.
Why does the NYC police patrol Times Square with assault rifles? To get the populace used to seeing heavily armed police everywhere.
Why does the NYC police search every single subway rider? To get the most liberal city in America used to invasive searches with no cause or warrant, to get Americans to forget their sacred rights under the Constitution.
Why does Bush makes up lies to start illegal and immoral wars of naked aggression against civilians of far away lands? Besides providing war profiteers with unlimited welfare checks, it’s to get the US citizenry used to having a dictator in control.
Why are anti-war press confrerences broken up by police on horseback charging into the audience and arresting reporters? To make sure those reporters don’t report reality and the truth, to terrorize citizens, and make sure that no one dares questions the authority of the Executive.
The evidence is all right in front of your eyes! Apparently people would rather believe the lies promulgated by the strictly controlled media and the GOP and Democratic leadership, rather than use their critical thinking skills to debunk the lies and look for a more plausible motives.
Sure we are nominally allowed to gather, but in ‘free press zones’.
Sure we are allowed to travel freely, for now. The airports are the test bed for getting the populace used to surrendering all rights when they travel.
It’s not a fascist police state yet, but I said ‘turning the US into a fascist police state’. The ONLY difference between the Dems and the GOP is how fast to institute martial law.
I will be surprised (and happy) if there even is an election in 2008. I suspect that Cheney will not relinquish the extreme power he has garnered to himself.
It might happen soon, within the next few months, after Bush uses nuclear weapons on his attack against Iran…
September 6th, 2007 at 8:24 pmNothing here but unhinged liberal bias and hate.
Comment by Gary Ruppert
Where? What I see are liberals trying to figure out how to defend themselves against the bloodlust of rednecks that are urged daily by media outlets to slaughter people like me and my two young children.
I see plenty of hatred against me from the right. I hear almost every day on all forms of media about how much my people (liberals) are hated and should be rounded up. I never hear any liberal saying such things. I hear us saying, ‘Can’t we all just get along’. To which the GOP says, ‘Die, liberal scum!’
September 6th, 2007 at 8:28 pmThink of it as a HOME INVASION.
Bush’s military busted down the door based on lies, and took over the kitchen, took over the living room, killed the brothers and gave the father a 100 bucks, the infants will get a free soccer ball, so famously handed out by staged military photo ops, if they live that long.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:11 amRemaining family lives in the attic, and when they need to get any kind of water, they must dodge the bullets flying from the living room, and if they get any water, it’s contaminated.
Father needs to go the bank and make a withdrawal to leave the Iraq , because it’s become too dangerous to leave. He finds out at the bank it’s now owned by an American bank, because bush ordered BremmER to change their banking laws, so that 100 % of any bank, can be foreign owned.
Father is killed on the way home, because he couldn’t read English and came ” too Close” to a check point manned by U.S. marines, and his wife is notified 7 days later and told where to pick her husbands body.
She returns home to find out, her cell phone doesn’t work and is told they were bought out , by an Israeli telecom company (fact, not talked about in U.S. media Israel is making big bucks in Iraq by selling telecom service, armored vehicles, bullet proof vests, and =other products).
She plans her husbands funeral, and heres Bush voice on her radio, saying ” things are getting better”, she breaks down and cries, her kids try to comfort her. Rather than starve to death, the eldest daughter suggests, that she work at the new Embassy, and says she was told ” we plan on being here a long time”. Mom screams, no the Americans killed your father .
Marines rush up stairs and tell her she must leave, what remains as her home, will be taken over by U.S. military and converted to a outpost .
“However, here’s a few key indicators of “kookiness†among the left:
Muttering “impeachment, impeachment†over and over ad-nauseum, until no one is listening anymore.
Desperately wishing for U.S. defeat in Iraq.
Bush Derangement Syndrome, which can easily by determined by folks who blame Bush and the United States for all the world’s problems. I.E.: Global Warming, hurricanes, terrorist acts by members of Islam, high gas prices, bird flu, Al Gore’s fall into obscurity, etc.
Blasting General Patraeus’ report before it’s even released, and calling him “Bush’s lap dogâ€, when he was unanimously approved by EVERY member of congress…Democrat AND Republican, liberal AND conservative.
Hoping for a government takeover of the medical system in the United States, at the very same time lambasting that very government as inefficient, corrupt, and ineffective.
Shall I continue? I have more…”
1
Well, I don’t read every comment on every blog, but I’ve never heard any of my friends wish for defeat in Iraq. Find me quote that says, in no uncertain terms, “I hope we lose in Iraq”. And then you will have one person out of the 200 million of us who disagree with you about the war and went too far in a comment. A kook. That leaves 199,999,999 of us who aren’t kooks. I’ll bet I could find plenty of racist comments on right wing web sites. Does that make you all racists?
2
We wish for Impeachment of Bush, but you sought Impeachment of Clinton, so I think we”re both unhinged by your standards. By the standards of the rest of the civilized world, of course, having consensual sex does not = killing tens of thousands of innocent people in a war of choice, but OK, I’ll call it even on that one.
3
We don’t blame Bush for those things, we criticize his response to them. Remember, like you guys criticised everything Clinton did? If you think it’s not OK for us to criticise what he did, you should move to Iran or someplace where your views are more in line with the government.
4
We would like to see some improvement in the health care system. Again, if you think our right to express our opinion on this is out of bounds, you’re living in the wrong country. Having an opinion about health care or anything else that differs from yours does not make us kooky. Claiming to worship American ideals while denying your fellow citizens the right to express perfectly legitimate opinions is kooky.
Try arguing with something we’ve actually said or done, not what Rush tells you we think.
September 7th, 2007 at 2:28 pmThis is the Jones report i was referring to. In many ways, it is encouraging – especially if we can have some diplomatic success. He suggests that a draw downs in troops is not far fetched.
He was the lead story with Tim Russert on Meet the Press as well. It is worth checking out. MM
September 9th, 2007 at 3:40 pm