Progress In Anbar Initiated Four Months Before Bush’s Escalation
Progress In Anbar Initiated Four Months Before Bush’s Escalation
The Bush administration is increasingly touting the reduced violence in the Anbar province as evidence that the President’s escalation policies are working. Last week, President Bush made a surprise visit to the region and used it to argue that the troop buildup should not be cut short:
In Anbar you’re seeing firsthand the dramatic differences that can come when the Iraqis are more secure. … You see Sunnis who once fought side by side with al-Qaida against coalition troops now fighting side by side with coalition troops against al-Qaida.
But as the Washington Post outlines today, the escalation has nothing to do with Anbar’s success. The Sunnis in the region had developed a bottom-up plan to start fighting the al Qaeda insurgents in 2006, at least four months before Bush announced his escalation:
More striking was the emerging shift in Anbar; al-Qaeda and Sunni insurgents had grown so dominant in the western province that military intelligence had all but given up on the area months earlier. Bush benefited from good timing. As he introduced his new strategy, Marine commanders had already made common cause with local Sunni tribal leaders who had broken with the Sunni insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq, also called AQI. […]
The sheik who forged the alliance with the Americans, Abdul Sattar Buzaigh al-Rishawi, traced the decision to fight al-Qaeda to Sept. 14, 2006, long before the new Bush strategy, but the president’s plan dispatched another 4,000 U.S. troops to Anbar to exploit the situation. As security improved, the White House eagerly took credit.
Even Gen. Petraeus has acknowledged that Anbar “was the result, not of military actions, certainly, alone. It was the result of, really, a political shift where the population led by the sheiks of major tribes decided to reject al Qaeda and its Taliban-like ideology, and the extremist behavior that they have come to associate with it.” Similarly, Defense Secretary Robert Gates recently admitted that the successes in Anbar were initiated by Iraqis, not U.S. troops.
Last week, CNN correspondent Michael Ware also noted that the Sunni insurgency in Anbar offered to work with U.S. troops — but not the Iraqi government — to fight al Qaeda in 2003, but the United States rejected the offer. Only “after four years of bloodshed” was the United States “finally ready to accept those terms.”
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George Bush’s photo op with a warlord who has the blood of American troops on his hands.
Nice work.
-GSD
September 9th, 2007 at 4:17 pmWe arm both sides of the conflict. Why not? This whole adventure is to “enrich the coffers” of the munition manufacturers.
September 9th, 2007 at 4:23 pmLies are all Bush and the Repubs have at this point…
Now if only the Dems would truly stand up to them…
September 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pmIs that what’s meant by ‘Kicking Butts’…?!!
September 9th, 2007 at 4:28 pmDenverOasis, how true…Blessings
September 9th, 2007 at 4:33 pm“KKKarl†“Blood on your hands††Repubsâ€
Comment by Recap, Leftist Talking-Points — September 9, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
–
Ditto
September 9th, 2007 at 4:46 pmfrom the article at CNN
the Sunni Baathist insurgency turned on al Qaeda and it offered America the same terms of negotiation that it first offered four years ago, in 2003, in that it was willing to work with America, but not with the Iraqi government. And America, after four years of bloodshed, was finally ready to accept those terms.
So does this mean that the Sunni’s are still not willing to work with the Iraqi Govt.? The Sunni’s did walk out, before the government went on vacation.
September 9th, 2007 at 4:56 pmThe surge’s goal was “breathing space” for the Iraqi Govt. With or without the Sunni’s apparently.
And I guess we can credit the “four years of bloodshed” to Bush’s skill as the “War President”.
Of course, it was but this fraud will take credit for anything possible. You can fool some of the people some of the time…..this is what he banks on - that people will believe the crock of crap he spews. Sorry but it no longer works.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pm#7 would be the rant of a clear egomaniac. Who cares what anyone posting of a fictional website like Konservo has to say?
September 9th, 2007 at 5:02 pmOk so yesterday TP posts a story that takes shot at Sheikh Sattar because “whose tribe is notorious for highway banditry, is also building a personal militia, loyal not to the Iraqi government but only to him.â€
And now they contend that there is “progress” and “success” in Anbar, but that it is not related to the surge.
Sounds like TP can’t get their story straight.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:05 pmBush conferring with tribal sheiks who are only interested in controlling their own little fiefdoms is pathetic.
According to Juan Cole, that dude (that looks like FZ from Sheik Yerbouti) who’s shaking Bush’s hand, is nothing more than the leader of a bunch of hi-way bandits.
On second thought, I guess that’s apropos.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pmSounds like TP can’t get their story straight.
Comment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
——-
Yep. That pretty much sums up TP for ya’!
;)
September 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pmSheik Yerbooty
September 9th, 2007 at 5:10 pmTrolls: there is no contradiction whatsoever between TP’s post yesterday on the highway bandit and today’s post based on a Washington Post story showing that the Sunni-on-Sunni fight between some sheiks (including the highway bandit) and Al Qaeda started before, and is not part of, the “surge.” None. The fact that you have not and will not provide evidence, proves it.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:12 pmWhat the hell am I talking about?
September 9th, 2007 at 5:18 pmWhat the hell am I talking about?
Comment by sponson — September 9, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
–
Ditto
September 9th, 2007 at 5:20 pmSo we depose a national war lord, Saddam, and then oversee the transfer of power to local war lords who have no intention of getting along with the national government.
Yup, great progress.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:20 pmI see no contradiction either. The Sunnis that attacked us on 911 (Al Qaeda) were fighting with the Sunnis that did NOT attack us on 911 ( the Bathists). Al Qaeda is Islamist…The Bathists are secular. Bush lumped them all together, called them all terrorists, and fought them to a bloody stalemate for four years, getting thousands of people killed. Now he is willing to make a deal with the Sunnis that didn’t attack us on 911, and is shoveling them duffle bags full of cash. What’s the contradiciton??
September 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThe Chimp will use anything (even lies) to try to make his case. Just like the photo op during which he never left the military base - what a joke! Everyone knew about the ethnic cleansing in Anbar well in advance of Bush’s infamous and futile “surge” so who’s he trying to kid?
September 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThe Chimp…
Comment by razzmatazz — September 9, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Ditto
September 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pmI see TP is desperately trying to resuscitate a lie that it tried to spread last week (Sept. 3rd) that the surge has had nothing to do with the successes in Anbar….This dishonest reporting TP was already discredited by several posters last week:
‘The tribal Sunnis were “cooperating†while the US forces were clearing AQ extremists and holding secured areas well before surge reinforcements arrived.
‘Robert Burns reports April 9, 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 04/ 09/ AR2007040900775.html
“The new cooperation has enabled U.S. forces in recent months to clear extremist elements from even the most violent areas, including Ramadi, and to put more Iraqi forces on the streets, Conway was told. Cooperation by the sheiks also has quickly created a Sunni police force in areas where none existed before.â€
TP marginalize the pre-surge 25,000 Marines that were engaging and killing AQ terrorists with the help of the Anbar Sunnis, claims Marines weren’t there.’
Comment by steed — September 3, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
A blatantly dishonest and misleading posting by TP. They don’t expect anyone to read the actual article. Instead, they distort (and let’s face it, lie about) what the article actully says and then hope nobody notices….Nice job catching them in their dishonesty.
“We have seen the fruit of that effort become more apparent in the last few months,†Gates said. In their meeting with Bush here, the local Sunni sheiks were explicit, however, he added, “that it was the presence of the additional U.S. forces - the Marines that came in - that helped cement the gains they felt they had made but were at risk.â€
Comment by Exley — September 3, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
Nice try, Tp. But your lies were caught last week and have been so again. Boy, TP is soooooooooo disappointed that the troops are succeeding in Iraq that they will continue to lie even when their lies have already been exposed and discredited.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pmHabalaarz?
Comment by Dean CT — September 9, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
Ditto
September 9th, 2007 at 5:29 pmI see TP is desperately trying to resuscitate a lie that it tried to spread last week (Sept. 3rd) that the surge has had nothing to do with the successes in Anbar….This dishonest reporting TP was already discredited by several posters last week:
‘The tribal Sunnis were “cooperating†while the US forces were clearing AQ extremists and holding secured areas well before surge reinforcements arrived.
‘Robert Burns reports April 9, 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 04/ 09/ AR2007040900775.html
“The new cooperation has enabled U.S. forces in recent months to clear extremist elements from even the most violent areas, including Ramadi, and to put more Iraqi forces on the streets, Conway was told. Cooperation by the sheiks also has quickly created a Sunni police force in areas where none existed before.â€
TP marginalize the pre-surge 25,000 Marines that were engaging and killing AQ terrorists with the help of the Anbar Sunnis, claims Marines weren’t there.’
Comment by steed — September 3, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
A blatantly dishonest and misleading posting by TP. They don’t expect anyone to read the actual article. Instead, they distort (and let’s face it, lie about) what the article actully says and then hope nobody notices….Nice job catching them in their dishonesty.
“We have seen the fruit of that effort become more apparent in the last few months,†Gates said. In their meeting with Bush here, the local Sunni sheiks were explicit, however, he added, “that it was the presence of the additional U.S. forces - the Marines that came in - that helped cement the gains they felt they had made but were at risk.â€
Comment by Exley — September 3, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
Nice try, Tp. But your lies were caught last week and have been so again. Boy, TP is soooooooooo disappointed that the troops are succeeding in Iraq that they will continue to lie even when their lies have already been exposed and discredited.
Comment by Exley — September 9, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
——-
Yep.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:31 pmExley….the troops are succeeding in Al Anbar. What about the Shiite provinces in the south. The Brittish are leaving….who’s in charge of Basra. And how will the Shiites react to America’s funding of their enemies….the Bathist Sunni’s that were Sadaam’s power base??
September 9th, 2007 at 5:33 pmDitto? Are you sure you mean that Ditto?
Comment by Dean CT — September 9, 2007 @ 5:33 pm
—
I don’t think these TP-dittoheads are sure about anything!!!
September 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmSo it’s a troll echo chamber. Our troops are dying in Iraq, officially, to give the Iraqis “breathing space” to reconcile, yet Bush is funding warlords who plan to fight the Iraqi government to the death if necessary rather than be controlled by them. This is not a “success” for our Marines, who are not responsible for what Bush has done to them, they just have to bear the horrible brunt of the stupidity of his actions.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmComment by Badger — September 9, 2007
Lieutenant Colonel Patrick Sanders, the commander of the troops who withdrew from Basra a few days ago, said that, lately, his soldiers had been fighting a “proxy war” against Iran. He claimed Iran had armed Shiite militias in southern Iraq.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:42 pmLIES LIES LIES LIES
Ramadi and Falluja have been under constant under seige for 4 months now , surrounded by US troops that use snipers to shoot anybody on the streets after 6 PM . NO cars , minimum food and water supplies , NO MEDICAL SUPPLIES , no electricity
PLEASE READ THE TRUTH
Curfew-Bound Fallujah On The Boil Again
http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/ hard_news/ archives/ iraq/ 000605.php
IN FACT READ THE WHOLE LOT ABOUT ANBAR
Samarra Under U.S. Attack
With Donkeys for Transport, All Is Well
Too Many Search Hopelessly for the Kidnapped
Children Starved of Childhood
Families of Detainees Losing Hope
Fallujah Finds a False Peace
Another U.S. Military Operation, More Unrest
Caught Between the U.S. and Al-Qaeda
Between the Two Rivers, Lack of Water Kills
A Little Easier to Occupy from the Air
Baquba Denied the Healing Touch
Living Becomes Hard in a Dead City
Mass Graves Dug to Deal With Death Toll
‘Arrowhead’ Becomes Fountainhead of Anger
http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/iraq.php
READ AND FIND THE TRUTH IN ANBAR
September 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pmHe claimed Iran had armed Shiite militias in southern Iraq.
Comment by troqua — September 9, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
What did he expect?. America is arming SUNNI militias in Al Anbar. I don’t like where this is heading.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pmBadger,
The British leaving Basra is problematic, no doubt (Although they did a pretty lousy job of getting the Shiite militias under control even when they were there)….Look, you are correct. This will all be for naught unless the Sunnis and Shiites learn to work together and there are still a ton of difficult issues to tackle in Iraq. But the first step is getting Al Qaeda in Iraq defeated…And the surge is working at getting that done. And it doesn’t do anyone any good for organizations like TP to derogate and belittling the accomplsihments of our troops in places like Anbar.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:49 pm250 troops to leave Iraq in four weeks
September 9th, 2007 at 5:52 pmBritain’s military deployment in southern Iraq is to be cut by 500 to 5,000 over the next few months, announces MoD.
What did he expect?. America is arming SUNNI militias in Al Anbar. I don’t like where this is heading.
Comment by Badger — September 9, 2007
Exactly.
But the first step is getting Al Qaeda in Iraq defeated
Comment by Exley — September 9, 2007
AQI constitutes no more than 2-4% of the problem in Iraq. But you probably think AQI and AQ are one and the same.
September 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmThe Sadr Movement in Basra is warning the US military not to try to come into the province
http://www.juancole.com/ 2007/ 09/ 22-million-internally-displaced-iraqis.html
September 9th, 2007 at 5:54 pmThe Sadr Movement in Basra is warning the US military not to try to come into the province to replace the departing British troops. Suspected Mahdi Army roadside bombs have inflicted unusually high casualties on British troops in the deep south this year.
IS THAT WINNING - - - NO
Sunday, September 09, 2007
September 9th, 2007 at 5:57 pmhttp://www.juancole.com/ 2007/ 09/ 22-million-internally-displaced-iraqis.html
the British are stuck at Basra airport with 36 motar rounds landing every week
September 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pmYour name… IS TOBY!!!!!
September 9th, 2007 at 6:04 pm#37,
Uh huh….Apparently, Juan Cole missed this from last week:
Iraq’s Sadr orders halt to attacks on US-led troops by Hassan Abdul Zahra
Wed Aug 29, 1:33 PM ET
“Radical Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr ordered his dreaded Shiite militia on Wednesday to stop attacks on US-led forces as part of a six-month suspension of the militant group’s activities.
The order came after fierce firefights left at least in 52 people dead in the Shiite shrine city of Karbala on Tuesday in violence witnesses said involved policemen and suspected fighters from Sadr’s Mahdi Army militia.
Sadr aides have denied any involvement in the fighting that sent hundreds of thousands of pilgrims fleeing from Karbala and led Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to slap an indefinite curfew on the city.
“I direct the Mahdi Army to suspend all its activities for six months until it is restructured in a way that helps honour the principles for which it is formed,” Sadr said in a statement issued by his office in the city of Najaf.
Sheikh Ahmed al-Shaibani, a Sadr aide who led a bloody rebellion against US forces in Najaf in 2004, said the suspension included a ban on any attacks on US-led forces.”
Of course, it is not surprising Cole got it wrong…This is the guy who once embarassingly wrote that the 9/11 attacks were partially in retaliation for the Battle of Jenin — even though the Jenin battler took place more than six months AFTER the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:05 pmexcellent post!
September 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmComment by Exley — September 9, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
And of course this isn’t mentioned:
Six terrorists killed, 25 suspects detained, al-Qaeda network disrupted
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/ index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13800&Itemid=128
September 9th, 2007 at 6:09 pmExley - Sadr is having a ceasefire to eliminate rouge elements in the Shiite militia - he also said if the US troops create trouble he WILL fight back
and TODAY not last week
Sadr is Saying the Americans had better not move into Tehran OOOps sorry I mean Basra
Basra is controlled by Sadr militia , British troops call Basra Little Tehran
September 9th, 2007 at 6:14 pmExley…I wouldn’t put too much faith in the statements of Moqtada al Sadr. And we need to worry about SCIRI, which is more influenced by Iran that Sadr’s militia.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:15 pm“Exley…I wouldn’t put too much faith in the statements of Moqtada al Sadr.”
Oh, Badger, believe me, I don’t! But that goes for Juan (When was the Battle of Jenin again) Cole, too….
We should have killed al Sadr a looooooong time ago!
September 9th, 2007 at 6:21 pm#43, Tobey
“Basra is controlled by Sadr militia , British troops call Basra Little Tehran”
I do not doubt that…Like I said above, the Brits did not do a good job in dealing with the Shiite militias in Basra.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:24 pmwhy doesn’t someone ask about Falujah? 200 vehicules per day. That’s how you win friends !!!!!!! Good old US Military!And try Ramadi for mor fun stuff!
September 9th, 2007 at 6:30 pmExcellent piece from Kevin Drum. War Hawks are now Chaos Hawks.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:30 pm“Like I said above, the Brits did not do a good job in dealing with the Shiite militias in Basra.”
Comment by Exley
What?
Like killing them and laying the city to waste?
Now for example Fallujah, there’s dealing with the militias, huh?
The city is a wasteland.
Stupid git.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:30 pmGive that warlord a long dark beard and he could pass for the actor in the latest bin Laden video.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmExley to control and occupy Basra the brits would have to quadruple their forces to pre-war levels of 45,000
Britain wants to leave and has been handing back territories slowly slowly
While America has been winding up the hornets nest and wants to stay to steal the Oil
at the Moment all along Anbar though the Euphrates River where the Sunnis are Ramadi , Falluja , these places are bogging down US troops by keeping them under siege for 4 months……… its a stalemate,,,, the minute the troops move its back to square 1
http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/ hard_news/ archives/ iraq/ 000605.php
read above link to find out whats going on
September 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmThe Iraqis have always been secular; inevitably, they would have fallen out with the austere Wahabism of the Salafist Al Qaeda.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pmLike I said above, the Brits did not do a good job in dealing with the Shiite militias in Basra.
Comment by Exley — September 9, 2007
The Brits have seen the writing on the wall. It’s over, they recognize it, and they won’t risk any more lives or treasure for a lost cause. That anyone would denigrate them or their service is pathetic. We are the fools, my friend, as we continue on this misadventure.
September 9th, 2007 at 6:53 pm“My palm is my pilot,
I shall not want…
it maketh me to bend over
porcelein fixtures,
to receive the blessings of
the Neo-Con my God”
Republican Liturgy
September 9th, 2007 at 7:00 pmYou blame Us , we blame you
The head of the British Army during the invasion of Iraq, General Sir Michael Jackson, has described former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld as a person who was “intellectually bankrupt” in planning the strategy for the offensive in that war-ravaged country.
General Sir Mike Jackson said: “All the planning carried out by the State Department went to waste,” and described Rumsfeld claim that US forces “don’t do nation-building” as “nonsensical”.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pmIt was interesting to hear John McCain on the talk shows today. He admitted that for the first four years, our stategy in Iraq was a failure, and layed the blame at the feet of Donald Rumsfeld.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:07 pmSounds like staight talk to me.
OT….Seattle 20 Tampa Bay 6….Another good game..Yippie!..Blessings
September 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pm[[[Like they do when they talk about bloggers: Irrational discourse]]]
Excerpted from: http://rawstory.com/ / news/ 2007/ GOP_Pollster_opines_divisive_angry_politics_0905.html
Well DUhhHHhhHH. Now wonder the conpervatives cant engage in rational debate [[[As See here on a daily basis]]] they are emotional projectionists parrots of irrational phraseology.
Explains our submissive (R) lemming psychology.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:15 pmAll Bush and Cheney have done is shift the front-lines westward from the front-line that existed in the 1980’s war waged along the border between Iraq and Iran.
Think about it.
By attacking Iraq and totally removing the Batthists from power, Bush and Cheney did what the Iranian ayatollahs had only been able to dream of doing for so many years…defeating and kicking out all of their hated Batthist foes in Iraq’s government…with the additional goal of establishing an Iran-friendly Shia-ruled central government in Baghdad.
Thus, the seeming disconnect between the Bush administration’s presumed pre-war plan of actually working with lower-level Batthists in Iraq, essentially keeping the Batthist bureaucracy (and security apparatus) in place while only removing top-level Batthists from office…and what someone (Cheney?) in the Bush administration ordered to be done after Iraq was invaded, that all the Batthists, no matter what position, were to be unceremoniously kicked out onto the streets, no jobs, no money.
This one decision is what has gotten so many of our soldiers killed, along with countless Iraqi citizens.
Once this supreme decision-making official in the Bush administration (Cheney?) decided to scrap the pre-war plan, the old front-lines between Iraq and Iran immediately shifted westward.
Once this Bush official (Cheney?) listened to and agreed with someone (Chalabi?) pushing the Iranian-backed post-war plan for the new, post-Saddam Iraq, the horrific chain of events that we’ve witnessed over the past four and a half years was set in motion. This was the “power vacuum” that could have been avoided. But this was also the exact “power vacuum” that was hoped for by the Iranians next door.
And all it took was for some crazed Bush official (Cheney?) to side with some Iraqi exiles (Chalabi?), angry exiles who had spent many years in Iran, plotting with their Iranian hosts and planning the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the removal of all Sunni Batthists from power, any power, in Iraq.
Thus, the initial plan pushed by relatively sane people in the Bush administration, which involved retaining Sunni Batthists and not firing all of them en masse, makes perfect sense from a post-war security standpoint…while the actual policy adopted was only meant to help the Iraqi exiles and the Iranians next door seize absolute power in Iraq.
This is why Bush’s democracy, nation-building experiment in Iraq was doomed from the very moment back in 2003 when all the Sunni Batthists were forced out. From that moment onward, the security situtation in Iraq deteriorated to where it stands today. And the front-line that used to be between Iraq and Iran along their shared border has now moved westward, and is now located in the Baghdad districts and Iraqi provinces surrounding the Green Zone. (Just as the Iranians and Iraqi exiles planned).
September 9th, 2007 at 7:29 pmComment by The Oracle — September 9, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Lay off the meth.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:33 pmTommorow’s post by another chris,
“TP said the sun rose in the east yesterday, and now today TP is saying it sets in the west. Keep your story straight!” Or maybe, TP said a tree fell in the forest but nobody heard it, how do they know a tree fell? TP needs to get it’s story straight!”
By the way Chris, why did you run away when Wayne cornered you on your lie about serving with the 82nd Airborne?
September 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmComment by The Oracle — September 9, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
You’re right, but you are leaving out the important part where the US maintains its “lily pads” in the Middle East to respond militarily anywhere in the future and the part where the Iraqis must give away up to 80% of their oil revenues to the top Western oil corps.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:37 pmHabalaarz/Makarios/Pee/DozensMore sure is accusing a lot of people of using meth lately. Funny considering he posts here 20 hours per day and frequently explodes.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pmWe libs can do no wrong. If we’re confronted with a legitimate complaint of wrongdoing, we will never take responsibility. I will spin my lies and defend the indefensible. It’s my schtick.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:46 pmAs usual Stamford Dean, tries a non-sequitor argument. This isn’t about what the soliders are or are not doing. They are following orders. This is about the liars who are giving them orders. Do you even read the articles before you post or do you just randomly pick a trolling point out the playbook and post?
September 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmDo I ever learn?
September 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pm“We libs can do no wrong. If we’re confronted with a legitimate complaint of wrongdoing, we will never take responsibility. I will spin my lies and defend the indefensible. It’s my schtick.
Comment by Bobwurst”
Well, it appears I’ve struck a nerve in the moronisphere. I must be doing something right.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pmPetraeus was also, at one time, charged with training ISF [[[Iraq Security Forces]]] and we got alot of misleading figures then as well, we would here X amount are trained only to find out later they were not trained. In 2004, Fallujah, they simply ran off when the shooting started.
Now, 2007 we find:
There are supposedly some 300 to 350,000 ISF, and still they cannot protect their own country. And likely will not be able to for another 18 months. I am not trusting of Petraeus reports.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmIt’s now time to consume my special milk. My farting regimen must go uninterrupted.
Bye friends.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmDean CT—-Do you agree that total deBathification was a mistake.?? Did the Bush administration NOT just accept the deal that the Sunni’s offered us in 2003.??? That four years of bloodshed was OUR troops bloodshed.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmComment by Dean CT — September 9, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Irrational Looney Luntz emotiona posting are not allowed, nor read.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmBobwurst,
I don’t remember him cornering me at all.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmAsk me anything you want about the 82nd.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmComment by Habalaarz — September 9, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
Irrational Looney Luntz emotional gibberish not allowed, or read.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmYou may as well quit Deano, once you people start name-jacking you’ve admitted you don’t have a defensible position.
September 9th, 2007 at 7:59 pmCongress expected to grill general on violence data
Another gop gay scandal
Oussama Bin Laden is impotent
Two officers killed responding to domestic call
Politicians welcome the kick-out of Eva Hermann
September 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmI said that they’re “not allowed,” but who am I? A prospective dictator?
Probably so.
And really, who gives two sh!ts what I read? Speaking of “emotiona posting,” I watch my leftist friends do their “State of TP” dramatic productions constantly. “I want the trolls gone, BLAH BLAH BLAH.” “I want my echo chamber, BLAH BLAH BLAH.” “I’m gonna leave and never ever come back, BLAH BLAH BLAH.” “I’m telling Faiz, BLAH BLAH BLAH.”
September 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmAsk me anything you want about the 82nd.
Comment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
Why wouldn’t the NYTimes publish the response to the 82nd from the members of “Vets for Freedom”?
September 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pm“Bobwurst,
I don’t remember him cornering me at all.
Comment by Another Chris ”
Then why did you disappear once wayne checked with his old commander in the 82nd who comfirmed that there are no units in Korea? And if you really are active duty how could you be so callous about the deaths of fellow soldiers?
September 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pmComment by Namejacked Bobwurst — September 9, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
Irrational Looney Luntz Emotional phraseology not allowed or read.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pmGeneral Petraeus published an op-ed article in The Washington Post, Sept. 26, 2004 (six weeks before elections) in which he claimed that there had been “tangible progress” in Iraq, and that “momentum has gathered in recent months.”
He lied and he did it to influence the elections.
[p.s. to morons: this is not a criticism of our troops]
September 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pmI haven’t even presented the first shred of evidence to refute anybody’s position. I just consider my personal opinion to suffice.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pmComment by Habalaarz — September 9, 2007
Off topic posts by Looney (R) Luntzes not allowed or read.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pmI left the 82nd in 2006 after 3 1/2 years. I’m moving to a different unit in Korea soon.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:04 pmIrrational Looney Luntz Emotional phraseology not allowed or read.
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As far as the response to the 82nd from the members of “Vets for Freedomâ€, you’d have to ask the NYTimes.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:05 pmDo I make the rules around here?
September 9th, 2007 at 8:05 pmAs far as the response to the 82nd from the members of “Vets for Freedomâ€, you’d have to ask the NYTimes.
Comment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
—-
I’ll give you a hint:
The NYTimes is part of the Main Stream LIBERAL Media!
September 9th, 2007 at 8:08 pmComment by Hijcked Vesica Piscium — September 9, 2007
DJKonservo namejackers are Looney Luntz Bloggers. DJK’s are Irrational and do not allow dissenting opinions. Their OT posts and OT opinions are invalidated.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:08 pmAnyway, the good folks at the Weekly Standard accepted the Vets for Freedom response, here it is:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/ Content/ Public/ Articles/ 000/ 000/ 014/ 006bzlfl.asp
September 9th, 2007 at 8:09 pmDo I make the rules around here?
Comment by name jakced Vesica Piscium — September 9, 2007
Looney (R) Luntz irrational discourse is off topic.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pmComment by Habalaarz — September 9, 2007 @
Radical Rightey Looney (R)Luntz irrational links are not read or commented upon.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmI’m not in a position to question your creds on this, all I know is that wayne posted some pointed questions and you disappeared. It may have been a coincidence, or not. I am curious why you were so callous about the deaths of servciemen in Iraq however. I work with veterans, many who have served in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and to a person, regardless of their political leanings or thoughts on the war in Iraq , they all take very seriously the death or injury of soliders.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:15 pm“This website sucks.
It’s full of Muslim loving traitors!
Comment by TO”
Feel free to leave and go join your klansmen at redstate. please.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:17 pmThe escalation has nothing to do with the Anbar region security. It was due to a political shift acoording to Gen Petraeus.
The Weakly Staineturd link is invalid and cannot be loaded.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:19 pmI left the 82nd in 2006 after 3 1/2 years. I’m moving to a different unit in Korea soon.
Comment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
I think yer a liar, but, hey, do whatyagotta.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:20 pmthey all take very seriously the death or injury of soliders.
Comment by Bobwurst — September 9, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
Yep.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:20 pmIrrational Looney Luntz emotiona posting are not allowed, nor read.
Comment by Vesica Piscium — September 9, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Does this person have any idea how badly they embarrass themselves when they post like this? Apparently not.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:21 pm“This website sucks -Comment by TOâ€
Anti-semite detected.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pmPlease bookmark this link for future reference.
The term “antisemitism” comes from the roots “anti” (against) and “Semite” (a term that applies to both Hebrews and Arabs/Muslims).
The Weakly Staineturd link is invalid and cannot be loaded.
Comment by Vesica Piscium — September 9, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
Try this:
September 9th, 2007 at 8:27 pmhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/ Content/ Public/ Articles/ 000/ 000/ 014/ 006bzlfl.asp
Comment by Habalaarz — September 9, 2007
radical righty links cannot be loaded into this browsers HOST file:
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP stack for Windows98 and many other OS.
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a ‘#’ symbol.
#
# For example:
#
# 102.54.94.97 weeklystandard.com # source server
# 38.25.63.10 x.acme.com # x client host
127.0.0.1 localhost
September 9th, 2007 at 8:38 pmComment by The Larrification of the Stall — September 9, 2007
Looney Luntz Irrational personal attack. Iggied. Kill File.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:42 pmWell I wasn’t trying to be callous about the deaths of servicemen. I was trying to point out that 2 incidents calmed the lives of those seven soldiers, and only 4 other soldiers were wounded the entire day. I was using this to make the point that overall violence is down.
Other people who post here took it as me being callous.
As far as “Stupidity” goes, you can believe what you want to. I doubt anything I say will convice you I served and am continuing to serve.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:42 pmand another chris disappears, again. If only jake was that easy…
September 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI’m still here Bratwust.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmTP - ‘mission accomplished’ - the degeneration of your threads has been completed. No means of discussion is possible. It appears your ‘filter/”censorship’ has slipped - allowing the juvenile antics of some through while deleting/censoring thoughtful posts.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmAgain, congratulations on your twisted understanding of the First Amendment - free speech but only if you’re under the age of 8.
I’m still here Bratwust.
Comment by Another Chris —
September 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmJeepers I’m cut to the bone with that one…So, why so little regard for your comrades in arms in harms way?
Did you just post Chris? I thought i saw something then it disappeared.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:00 pmBob,
See my explaination #105
September 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pmre #110,
my # 105 is me commenting on you disappearing, which doesn’t make sense on several levels.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmListen, fruitcakes. Give it a break and wait for the report. Then measure the results up against any decent summary of the surge (for instance, the one posted at Council of Foreign Relations).
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12446/
Then have an intelligent conversation about it. It’s that easy.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:05 pmWell folks, it’s been fun, but it’s time to read Ted and Fred Go Camping to my daughter. See you later. Chris, feel free to accuse me of being a cut and run democrat.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:05 pmSee ya Bob.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmThe Bush/Rovian crew has been stealing credit for stuff for quite a while while throwing people under the bus at a prodigious rate.
Comment by ebbAndflow — September 9, 2007
Naw, its pretty much always been this way ebb. The longer my posts were, written from my gut and with facts to back them, the more likely they were to get deleted. Perhaps they gather talking points and dont post those?
Who knows, the trolls here are lame, and offer no rational debate, they did at one time but lost debates time and again. They have little talking points left. Most today just thow insults.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmI doubt anything I say will convice you I served and am continuing to serve.
Comment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Yer a phony. You get called out on yer bullshit, and you back pedal, trying to appear “reasonable”. You were incredibly flip about soldiers’ deaths. Yer a liar and a PHONY!
September 9th, 2007 at 9:12 pmListen, fruitcakes.
Comment by localhost — September 9, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
“Fruitcakes…” Gee, that’s articulate and meaningful, D*ckbreath…
September 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmStupidity,
I am being reasonable. You just may not recognize it since it’s not very common on this sight.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:17 pmAnd explain how my response is back pedaling?
September 9th, 2007 at 9:17 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 9, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
Yeh I iggied that one as well. I have been reading the CFR site for some time. I see where some Generals are calling for an increase in violence due to the Ramadan, starting thursday TROS
September 9th, 2007 at 9:19 pmYou’re… a… PHONY.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:19 pmGo…F*CK…Yourself
September 9th, 2007 at 9:21 pmAnother Chris,
Don’t waste your time with the likes of:
“The Republic of Stupidity” and “Vesica Piscium.”
They are incapable of rational thought.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:21 pmThey are incapable of rational thought.
Comment by Habalaarz — September 9, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Riiiight, and posters like Mr P, who tried to claim Saudis aren’t Moslems, are the height of rationality, that is, until he goes totally bonkers and posts the same inane comment hundreds of times in a row.
Another Chris is a phony.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:22 pmAw… Chris… where’s your “reasonableness”???
F*CK… YOU… TOO! PHONY!!!!
September 9th, 2007 at 9:23 pmThanks Habalaarz, your right anyone with “Stupdity” in their name shouldn’t be taken seriously to begin with.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:24 pmThe deal is this guy (R) Pollster Frank Luntz has been known for years as a specialist in crafting words and phrases to evoke a strong emotional response and as an opponent of rational discourse in the Republican ranks, and thats why we see so little rational debate from the right wing pundits and posters today Chris.
Theu operate on emotions such as fear and hate and try to pin their views on others, they actually think they know what my view is based on their brainwashed Lunyzian one. The Republicans pundits and poster are, for the most part, unable to have a reasonable discourse with name calling, flooding, making threats or false accusations.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Another Chris — September 9, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
And you just agreed with one of the Luntzes, you must be a Republican, right?
September 9th, 2007 at 9:33 pmAdd another one to the ignore list TROS.
September 9th, 2007 at 9:34 pmSo therefore this is GREAT news as it shows that Iraqis are getting much better at taking care of their own problems which is what George Bush wanted from day one!! So this is a great success story, right libs???
September 9th, 2007 at 11:36 pmGlenn Greenwald at Salon:
…”huge majorities continue to believe that the war was not worth fighting (62-36%) and that the U.S. “is not making significant progress toward restoring civil order in Iraq†(60-36%). Only a small minority (28%) believe the Surge has made the situation in Iraq better, while vast majorities believe it has made no difference (58%) or has made the situation worse (12%). And a sizable plurality continues to believe the U.S. is losing the war (48-34%).
More significantly still, overwhelming numbers of Americans understand what the D.C. Establishment refuses to accept: namely, that even if there are marginal and isolated security improvements, there is still no point in continuing to stay in Iraq. Large majorities want the number of U.S. troops in Iraq decreased (58-39%); believe overwhelmingly that a decrease should begin “right away,†rather than by the end of the year or next year (62-33%); and favor legislation now to compel troop withdrawal by the spring (55-41%).”
September 10th, 2007 at 12:05 amLove all the “supposed” polling numbers but we all know what polls are all about! I could (if I wanted to spend the time!) show you numbers that would totally show yours are wrong but you’d accuse me of getting them from FOX or some “supposed” right wing source like you have just done from your left nut source SALON.
And I love the total complete lie that libs have been trying to make the American public believe - that the Nov elections were a “referendum” and that the voters agreed that we should get out of Iraq! Of course there was NO SUCH “referendum” and now you libs are starting believe your own lies with of course the help of the lib media!
Nice try!
September 10th, 2007 at 12:17 amSince his only real reply to a hell of a lot of empirical evidence was “nice try”—-it must be Karl Rove or Mr. Pee.
Only three of the eighteen benchmarks have been met after FIFTY-FOUR MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not “great”. This is “poor”. The reason is the Iraqis do not want to collaborate with the illegal foreign occupiers who want to control that part of the world and take their OIL.
September 10th, 2007 at 12:22 amOnly three of the eighteen benchmarks have been met after FIFTY-FOUR MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Keith — September 10, 2007 @ 12:22 am
–
The surge has only been going on for a couple of months. And, no, that was not me.
Nice try.
September 10th, 2007 at 12:25 am.
This is the third “surge”. Fool.
September 10th, 2007 at 12:47 amGeneral Petraeus published an op-ed article in The Washington Post, Sept. 26, 2004 (six weeks before elections) in which he claimed that there had been “tangible progress†in Iraq, and that “momentum has gathered in recent months.â€
He lied and he did it to influence the elections.
[p.s. to morons: this is not a criticism of our troops]
Comment by Keith — September 9, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
September 10th, 2007 at 12:52 amSo, Mr. Pee/Habalaarz, that was not you—-you just have this supernatural radar where you instantly know whenever you are mentioned on the worldwideweb? B.S.
September 10th, 2007 at 1:13 amWashington Post/ABC News Poll, Sept 4-7 1002 adults, margin of error +-3.0%:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-srv/ politics/ polls/ postpoll_090907.html
September 10th, 2007 at 1:20 amSo, Mr. Pee/Habalaarz, that was not you—-you just have this supernatural radar where you instantly know whenever you are mentioned on the worldwideweb? B.S.
Comment by Keith — September 10, 2007 @ 1:13 am
——-
Yeah, that’s it.
Lib.
September 10th, 2007 at 2:58 am> But the first step is getting Al Qaeda in Iraq defeated…
Blah Blah Al Queda Blah Blah..
Exley is there a membership list of whose in AL Queda in Iraq somewhere?
Do think anyone is every denied entry into Al Queda in Iraq ? Who do think gives the thumbs up or thumbs down?
So basically what I asking is, how do you think we should be able to tell who “al queda” is? and how can we tell them from the “insurgents fighting beside them”? (who are apparently ok to negotiate with)
September 10th, 2007 at 3:20 amis it just me or does that new friend of dubbya’s look suspiciously like borat?….QUICK!! - peace loving peoples of glorious nation kazakhstan,run for your lives!!!
September 10th, 2007 at 3:55 amThe Bush administration through the military has been paying blackmail payouts to this Sheik for him to “fight” against “al Queda”.
Last week, in a surprise meeting, the Sheik told George Bush, “we’re running out of money”. The Washington Post said George Bush “empathized” with the Sheik, saying he asks for money from the congress but doesn’t always get what he asks for.” (since when)!!!!
This was no just a commiseration by this Sheik. It was nothing less than what could be termed a “Sheik” Down!!!! “If you don’t give us more money, al Queda might just reemerge in Anbar”……..
There has been no surge in Anbar, just an ordinary blackmail scheme, that we are paying for.
September 10th, 2007 at 6:46 amSo, let’s recap: From this article it appears the previous strategy in Iraq was working, under Donald Rumsfeld’s leadership…
Yet liberals were not satisfied, so they ranted and raved and threw their political hissy-fits until they got a Democrat congress, which forced the change in strategy and Rumsfeld’s ouster, those same Democrats unanimously approved of General Petraeus’s leadership of the new strategy, and that new strategy has screwed everything up in Iraq?
It appears some folks need to get back on their Ritalin, and get back into mental focus.
If we were experiencing the progress prior to the change in military leadership and tactics in Iraq, why push for the change, libs?
September 10th, 2007 at 11:52 am>If we were experiencing the progress
> prior to the change in military leadership
> and tactics in Iraq, why push for the change, libs?
Lets see if I got your question right.. because we we were already bribing saddams former henchman not to attack us, but many many other facets of Iraq were still a mess, why did we elect people who wernt the ones who got us into this mess to begin with?
Maybe because people are irritated at the idiots who sent our soldiers to die and our coffers to be drained so that Iraqis could have the freedom to democratically transform into an islamic theocracy…
Hey Bigtwat, you agree with your right wing pal Upright Cleft who thinks that if the Iraqis democratically choose to become like Iran, that we should just bomb them all?
September 10th, 2007 at 3:27 pmAll that one really needs to know is contained in the previous Draper story. The Prez doesn’t know any thing because The Prez doesn’t want to know anything. “Really? They’re killing Sunnis in Bagdad? Well, Gauuuullieee Sarge”. This is even worse than when he copped a feel on that woman in Germany.
September 10th, 2007 at 7:48 pmfootsore