Fathers of soldiers killed in Iraq
By on Sep 12th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Fathers of soldiers killed in Iraq
hailed their sons for speaking out. The fathers of Omar Mora and Yance Gray, the two soldiers from the 82nd Airborne who drafted a New York Times editorial criticizing the rosy assessments of the war, said they were proud of them for voicing for their opinions. New York Times Deputy Editorial Page Editor David Shipley, who worked with the seven soldiers who drafted the op-ed, had this to say about them:
“They said from the get-go they did not want to be paid for this,” Shipley said, declining to reveal his payment scale, but said most freelance columnists are paid several hundred dollars. “It was a definite statement from them.”
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More soldiers need to speak out against this war. Speak truth to power, an INCONVENIANT TRUTH!
September 12th, 2007 at 2:53 pmUH OH! They better look out. Darth's Raiders will be goose-stepping into their towns REAL soon.
And , of course, we can depend on the trolls here to call them "TRAITORS" or "RAGHEAD LOVERS" or some such BS. The Big Flush in '09 can't come too soon! Just too bad we will let BushCo kill and maim another 1,000 or so brave troops before the swirling starts.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:56 pmBut the right will label them traitors for disagreeing with our king. I really wish we had a democracy.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:58 pmGodspeed and keep your heads up gentleman. Only Cindy Sheehan knows the hate and vitriol that will be flung your way in the coming weeks.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:59 pmHere's the absolute proof that these seven, rogue, renegade soldiers from the 82nd Airborne were nothing more than ideological liars who deceptively wrote an editorial to boost their anti-war, defeatist ideology. Their commander, Patreus, totally embarrassed, refuted and disproved these renegade seven with his congressional testimony over the past couple of days. This comes down to who the hell has got more credibility: a couple of breakaway renegades from a division who only make up .1% of the views of soldiers in Iraq, or Gen. Patreus, someone who has access to reports of progress from all over Iraq?? Unless you're a radically partisan, ideologue leftard who has no use for the truth, then you're going to agree it's David Petraeus hands down. The parents of these lying rogues are also villains who deserve condemnation because they're stupidly and blindly backing their kids without evaluating whether these kids have an anti-war, defeatist agenda, which they glaringly do!
September 12th, 2007 at 3:00 pmTom; watch how quick the Swiftboaters will come out to celebrate their deaths and smear their patriotism.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:01 pmMore soldiers need to speak out...
More Generals need to speak out to stop our ignorant, soulless F*ck-up-in-Chief from wasting more US soldiers just to save Bush's poor battered ego.
Did any other President lose two wars? I'm just askin'.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:02 pmNope, they are heroes in my eyes. The had the right to say what they wanted and had the guts to fight for it.
These two were soldiers unlike Sheehan who used her son's memory to push a personal agenda.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:03 pmhey, 82ndAirborne keyboarder; proof? Link or you are a LIAR!!!
I smell another cowardly chickenhawk @1500
September 12th, 2007 at 3:03 pmDid any other President lose two wars? I’m just askin’.
Are these wars lost?
September 12th, 2007 at 3:04 pmwow, that didn't take long....
there's a special place in hell for people who dance on the graves of people who gave their lives for what they believe in...
September 12th, 2007 at 3:04 pmTheir commander, Patreus, totally embarrassed, refuted and disproved these renegade seven with his congressional testimony over the past couple of days.
In your imagination maybe. Petraeus had to admit that Bush's invasion has NOT made America safer.
PS: When you write "leftard" it's like advertising you are actually a rightwing troll posing as a military man/woman. Shame on you, liar. May you rot in hell.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:05 pm82ndblahblahblah sez:
Indeed...who has more credibility? Some common soldiers who have no reason to lie, and every reason to keep their mouths shut, or Chimpy's very own hired gun?
LOL! What testimony were you watching? You're a damned joke.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pmTom; watch how quick the Swiftboaters will come out to celebrate their deaths and smear their patriotism.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Yes sir...They came out on post #5. Rather quick I would say. They sure hate freedom of speech, don't they? Geez, I miss America.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pmThese two were soldiers unlike Sheehan who used her son’s memory to push a personal agenda. -- Comment by Japaner
Sheehan's son died for Bush's lies. Unless you've made a similar sacrifice, shut yer repulsive, fetid maw.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pmComment by 82ndAirborneDivisionashamedofrogueseven — September 12, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
GEZUSS!
VV/MA that meth-induced post has raised (or lowered) even your own whacko-laced rants with that little ditty. Get some sleep ...... it might help.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:08 pmThese two were soldiers unlike Sheehan who used her son’s memory to push a personal agenda.
Comment by Japaner
I disagree. Sheehan used her son (Casey) to highlight the misguided war we are all involved in. It wasn't personal because WE ALL have to live with the idiot in chief. Why do some of you folks hate your fellow citizens exercising their right to free speech? What are you afraid of?
September 12th, 2007 at 3:09 pmAre these wars lost?
Comment by Japaner
Yep. Bush lost two wars. Got it? Good!
September 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pmSheehan’s son died for Bush’s lies. Unless you’ve made a similar sacrifice, shut yer repulsive, fetid maw.
No, you are about the last person in the world that I would ever take direction from, get that straight.
Casey Sheehan was a volunteer: not once, not twice but three times. No one held a gun to his head to make him re-enlist, ask for combat duty or volunteer to crew the mission which got him killed.
Cindy Sheehan used him to gain her fifteen minutes which she abused to the fullest.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pmRUN, CINDY, RUN!!!
Donate now: http://www.cindyforcongress.org
September 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pmHmm, did any other President lose two wars? Maybe there's some history buffs out there who can clarify that.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:11 pmYep. Bush lost two wars. Got it? Good!
They are not lost. Got it? Good!
September 12th, 2007 at 3:11 pmComment by 82ndAirborneDivisionashamedofrogueseven
What division and brigade are you with, troll?
And where are you currently stationed/deployed?
Your posting is pure crap.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:14 pmNo Ranger I know would ever post drivel such as you posted.
Cindy Sheehan used him to gain her fifteen minutes...
[Yawn.] Yer thoughts are still repulsive, your moth still fetid, and yer still a creepy, soulless smear artist. Why would anyone pay attention to a bilious, beetfaced screecher like you? Do you have a point? Other than the one on yer dunce cap, I mean.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:15 pmThey are not lost. Got it? Good!
Comment by Japaner
You just keep drinking the kool-aid and hiding under your bed. Let the strong and brave citizens of this great country get things under control. When we have done that, you can come out and play once more. BTW, the wars are lost. you know it, the historians know it, the planet knows it. The wrong group of people invaded the wrong country, at the wrong time, for all of the wrong reasons. I think you have a crush on little georgy boy!
September 12th, 2007 at 3:15 pmThey are not lost. Got it? Good!
Comment by Japaner
Oh, no... Even the Green Zone is attacked. But no...
September 12th, 2007 at 3:17 pmYep. Bush lost two wars. Got it?
They are not lost. Got it? -- Comment by Japaner
Rightwingers can't win wars. Never have, never will. Why? Because they don't have what it takes: regular contact with reality. They live in Fantasyland.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:18 pmOh, no… Even the Green Zone is attacked. But no…
Comment by Juan C
Thanks Juan, I forgot about that. I think even general P's office had some damage also from a rpg. Yeah, sure sounds like things are going swimmingly over there, huh? After all these years, the Green Zone isn't even safe. How do the trolls reconcile that fact?
September 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pmWar has never been declared.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pmI smell another cowardly chickenhawk @1500
Comment by Uncle Ho
Yep, notice the troll doesn't answer you or me.
These fascist bush worshippers are pure crap.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:20 pmI disagree. Sheehan used her son (Casey) to highlight the misguided war we are all involved in. It wasn’t personal because WE ALL have to live with the idiot in chief.
It may have started that way but it metastasized into something completely different. Code Pink scripting her media appearances, maps of an Israel-free middle east adorning her compound, a book that featured her and Martin Sheen on the cover but not her son; all the hallmarks of a personal agenda and need for attention. Casey who?
Id still like to hear Cindy's explanation of why there were regularly scheduled appearances of her touching and petting a little cross with her son's name on it.
Showtime!
September 12th, 2007 at 3:22 pm...
to the fathers, the parents, of the these heroes,
a heart felt THANK YOU, for raising those men
to do the right thing...
pray, wish, hope, PLEAD that more families
will find the strength and courage to speak out
and help put an end to this awful situation...
please...
September 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pm...
After all these years, the Green Zone isn’t even safe. How do the trolls reconcile that fact?
Trolls: "The Green Zone was attacked? It's Bill Clinton's fault!"
September 12th, 2007 at 3:24 pmId still like to hear Cindy’s explanation of why there were regularly scheduled appearances of her touching and petting a little cross with her son’s name on it.
Showtime!
Comment by Japaner
I am presuming you don't have children. If your son or daughter were to be blown up, you would understand her motivation. I agree the media (both sides) pushed this down the road a little too much, but her pain was/is real and you should try and understand that.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pmComment by Japaner
Your petty attempt to derail the thread from the subject is disgusting.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pmOh, no… Even the Green Zone is attacked. But no…
Yes, and even though Germany was reeling in the winter of 1944, Hitler managed to mount a major attack on the western front and almost broke through. Kamikazes were sinking American ships almost to the last days of the pacific war.
If you want to claim a rocket attack in a war zone is evidence of defeat, then you might want to readjust your knowledge of war.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pm"Yep. Bush lost two wars. Got it? Good!
They are not lost. Got it? Good!
Comment by Japaner "
Define winning then. in concrete terms, bushisms.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:27 pmComment by Japaner — September 12, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Funny you should use WWII as an analogy. Japan and Germany did fight to the end....but that end happened sooner than this occupation has and it's just one country. Soounds like the plan sucked arse and those who thought of it didn't have a clue as to what reality would present them.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:30 pmIf you want to claim a rocket attack in a war zone is evidence of defeat, then you might want to readjust your knowledge of war.
Comment by Japaner
Sir, please try and keep up. 6 years, thousands of lives, 1/2 trillion in treasure and the President must continue to make 'surprise visits' to a place he claimed 'mission accomplished'. Now really, does that sound like progress is happening? If we cannot control Bagdad, we cannot control the outer reaches of the vast territory that is Iraq. It really is simple geo-political dynamics. Your attempt to massicely simplify the situation speaks volumes for your misunderstanding of these things. You are starting to embarrass yourself, once again.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pmI am presuming you don’t have children. If your son or daughter were to be blown up, you would understand her motivation.
Sure I can understand her motivation and I wont presume to take away her right to grieve, even in public if she so desires, but when Palestinian flags appeared in her compound and she started yelling through a bullhorn about Israeli abuses in Gaza, I figured that Casey become a sub-issue.
Sheehan isnt the only gold-star mother and they all dont agree with her, its the left who decided she spoke for everyone and that we better listen or else.
Again, I would like Sheehan to explain why she had regularly scheduled photo-ops of her sitting by the little Casey cross.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:32 pmThe parents of these lying rogues are also villains who deserve condemnation because they’re stupidly and blindly backing their kids without evaluating whether these kids have an anti-war, defeatist agenda, which they glaringly do!
Comment by 82ndNamepostedbyJokertoday
What?
This comes down to who the hell has got more credibility: a couple of breakaway renegades from a division who only make up .1% of the views of soldiers in Iraq, or Gen. Patreus, someone who has access to reports of progress from all over Iraq??
September 12th, 2007 at 3:33 pmThat's like saying the CEO of a major automotive company knows more about what goes on in the trenches (assembly lines) then the grunts (hourly factory workers). The CEO spends maybe 1 hour a week "observing" the assembly line's productivity, while the workers spend 8-12 hours there a day.
Who would you more trust?
!
casey did NOT "ask for combat duty", LIAR...
he requested, and was PROMISED, chaplain duties...
he was LIED to.
and he died for those LIES.
...
September 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pmDefine winning then.
First define 'lost'. I guarantee I can find a parallel situation in a past war that America won.
You are like tom, claiming a rocket attack on the Green Zone is proof that the war is lost and its time to run away. If that were true, every time a cop got killed in the U.S. it would mean we have lost the streets to the crims and we better leave it to them.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pmComment by 82ndAirborneDivisionashamedofrogueseven — September 12, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
No real soldier would make the comments you just did about fellow soldiers who have just died, or their grieving families. Poser.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:37 pmcasey did NOT “ask for combat dutyâ€, LIAR…
Wrong. He asked to accompany the mission on which he was killed, a combat mission going to the aid of another unit in trouble. Dont fool yourself.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:37 pmIt really is simple geo-political dynamics.
This concept is simple? Heh, so much for your self-professed knowledge of things which are definitely not simple.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pmIf you want to claim a rocket attack in a war zone is evidence of defeat, then you might want to readjust your knowledge of war.
-Japaner
When, where & with whom did you serve?
1. This is not a war, it's an invasion for the control of oil resources.
2. The 'Green Zone' is supposed to be safe.
3. No honor can ever be claimed from a dishonorable invasion.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pmJapaner, I'm calling you on it. You "guarantee you can find a parallel situation in a past war that America won."
Prove that.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pmIf that were true, every time a cop got killed in the U.S. it would mean we have lost the streets to the crims and we better leave it to them.
Comment by Japaner
Thats why all NY residents go shopping escorted by troops, humvees and choppers.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:46 pm"First define ‘lost’. I guarantee I can find a parallel situation in a past war that America won.
japner"
1-re-arming the sunnis mitlias that we kicked out of the army to begin with
2-Less electricity than before we invaded
3-More civilian casualites than before we invaded
4-More Iraqis wanting us to get the hell out of their country than want us to stay. by a long shot.
5-American causaulites at near record levels
6-no clear mission defined
You can claim that the war isn't "lost" until we leave, but that's like saying the titanic wasn't sinking until the the tip of the mast went under the water.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:47 pm"If that were true, every time a cop got killed in the U.S. it would mean we have lost the streets to the crims and we better leave it to them.
Comment by Japaner"
If criminals had killed 3000 cops in the last four years, we would, as a nation, change our aproach to crime fighting. we certainly wouldn't be saying that we're winning the war on crime. at least the rational thinking among us wouldn't be. I have no idea what you would be saying.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:52 pmJapner probably thinks that we "lost" the Vietnam war when the last helicopter left the embassy in 1975. He also blames jimmy carter and possibly bill clinton for the loss.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:54 pmNo real soldier would make the comments you just did about fellow soldiers who have just died, or their grieving families. Poser.
Comment by troqua — September 12, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
That is just what is the case. That is a troll here who rants and raves and then disappears. About a 22 Y/O with no military experience, no morals and no life. And it worships Tranny Anny Coultergeist, to give you some additional perspective.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:55 pmAfter so many years of blind devotion to this administration, the trolls cannot let go. They are so heavily invested in this thing, their heads would explode if they even hinted at questioning 'dear leaders' plan for victory. I guess we must destroy democracy to save it, huh?
September 12th, 2007 at 4:23 pmjapaner: "its the left who decided [Sheehan] spoke for everyone and that we better listen or else.
More straw-dog arguments from the rightwing blowhards: show me who on the left ever said she "spoke for everyone."
You can't. What a whiny, lying tapeworm you are.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:24 pmCindy Sheehan speaks for Cindy Sheehan. She has a right to speak out at what she sees as wrong. She lost her son and I won't begrudge anyone in that situation.
Japaner, I'm still waiting for your "guarantee" of a similar situation.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pmPeople, please ignore the trolls. I don't know what's going on with TP these days, but the troll infestation is getting worse and their postings more bizarre.
It's weird; TP will delete posts from responsible posters but leave slimy smelly troll droppings for all to see. My theory: the TP mods have discovered that troll stupidity drives up comment traffic, and they're liking their enhanced numbers. Enjoy it while it lasts, TP.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pmHere’s the absolute proof that these seven, rogue, renegade soldiers from the 82nd Airborne were nothing more than ideological liars who deceptively wrote an editorial to boost their anti-war, defeatist ideology.
Comment by 82ndAirborneDivisionashamedofrogueseven — September 12, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
Wrong assh0le. What that was is absolute proof that you're a low life inbred peice of sh1t that needs his head kicked in. These two young men are dead. Get it? Dead.
They JUST died. And they did it in the service of their country. Agree with them, don't agree with them, but don't ever make the mistake of disrespecting them or their lives on this earth. Their families have just begun to grieve and here you are, a low life peice of coward stateside chickensh1t scum, desecrating them and insulting them following their deaths.
I hope you get every thing you've got coming to you you miserable peice of inbred dogscum.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:41 pmAnd I hope all service men and women, and those considering service in the military, are seeing yours and other RIGHT WINGERS comments, mocking, desecrating and ridiculing our soldiers who give their lives for their country.
You have provided absolute proof, that the right wing cares nothing about them, does not honor them, and only supports the troops who submit to your will. You're your own worst enemy.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pmThe trolls who post here are taking their marhcing orders from the hate-filled vile, venom-spewing people like Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh. Ignore their poisonous words.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pmThey can all burn in the hell that their god has waiting for them.
The trolls should be addressed. Not with the same type of name calling, but of calling out to prove what they say. I'm probably more guilty than most with troll bashing but I've been making a concerted effort to quell the competition to out insult them. I'm questioning them while solidifying my beliefs.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:12 pmThe trolls are a small but noisy portion of the "other" side. These are the people that need to be stood up to but also attempt and discuss with them their views.
It's happened several times that after the fires die down, more common ground is found between us.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:13 pmOk. I'll try to do better. But I can't think of anything lower than mocking the deaths of 2 guys serving their country in a foriegn land just because they voiced an opposing opinion. But I guess at the end of the day, it doesn't really require a response. His statements in and of themselves show everyone, especially the soldiers, what the right wing REALLY thinks of the troops.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:21 pmI can only assume that TP scrubbed my...
...fraggin?
...comment...
...because the thought of fratricide among American troops...
...is too odious to consider...
...might I remind you that the Tillman situation...
...has yet to be resolved...
September 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pmHang in there, big papa.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pmMy bad TP...
...it's on another thread...
...the one reporting the deaths of those American Patriots...
...profund apologies...
September 12th, 2007 at 9:53 pmYes, and even though Germany was reeling in the winter of 1944, Hitler managed to mount a major attack on the western front and almost broke through. Kamikazes were sinking American ships almost to the last days of the pacific war.
If you want to claim a rocket attack in a war zone is evidence of defeat, then you might want to readjust your knowledge of war.
Comment by Japaner — September 12, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Except that these attacks are on the enemy's HQ in the area!
This would be the equivalent of the Japanese managing to bomb the Pacific Fleet HQ, or the Germans blowing up the Allied Command HQ in England in late 1944. If that were to happen, the war would have been certainly not "going well" at that point.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:24 amFirst define ‘lost’. I guarantee I can find a parallel situation in a past war that America won.
Simpe: the stated military and political objectives were not achieved and are not achievable with available resources and within given constraints.
Knowing that, the warmongers have changed the objectives, repeatedly, in an attempt to redefine "victory".
That is what "lost" means in this context.
You are like tom, claiming a rocket attack on the Green Zone is proof that the war is lost and its time to run away. If that were true, every time a cop got killed in the U.S. it would mean we have lost the streets to the crims and we better leave it to them.
Comment by Japaner — September 12, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Firstly, there is no "war" in Iraq, it is an occupation. The US centurions are simply attempting to create conditions favourable to exploitation of the locals and their resources for whatever economic/strategic aims were envisioned by the centurion's owners. The locals are nearly universally rebelling and using the opportunity to settle local scores. It is as simple as that.
If the situation were to be tranposed on to the US police/crime dynamics, it would require something like 10 million US citizen dead in the conflagration, good 50 million dispossessed and running to Canada/Mexico, major cities burned to the ground etc. If that were to occur I assure you that not only people would be rightfully calling for an end to such idiotic "war on crime", loooong before those numbers were reached, but they would have strung the politicians responsible for it from the nearest available lamp post.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:41 am>Here’s the absolute proof that these seven,
> rogue, renegade soldiers
shut up you scum addled herpe ridden bedsore of a troll,. mighty methhead meagan.. more proof your support of the troops is predicated on thier agreeing with your deluded fascist idealogy... got WMD? agree with Bin Laden that taxes are too high?
find it ironic that 70 percent of attacks against our troops are now coming from the segment of the population that we liberated from mean old saddam, and that now we are bribing saddams former henchmen not to attack us? I guess there ARE some terrorists we negotiate with , huh babe?
here she is folks for you to heap your scorn upon.
http://www.myspace.com/79943506
"Just because I call you a dumbass doesn't mean that I am drunk"- brilliant quote dear, is that plato?
September 13th, 2007 at 5:51 amHas anyone speculated that the death of these men may have been not-so-accidental at all?
September 13th, 2007 at 6:46 amWill we learn later that there were more mysterious circumstances that led to this tragedy, along the lines of Pat Tillman?
KKKarl Rove had some guy arrested this week who MOONED him at an event almost a year ago.....this bunch does NOT take criticism well....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070913/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
These are the people you guys "liberated" from mean old saddam. Why are they firing rockets at us? Saddam was the bad guy, these guys were fighting him, so they must be good guys, right? So why are the good guys firing at us...?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:08 am> Has anyone speculated that the
> death of these men may have
> been not-so-accidental at all?
You mean like damaging the breaks or something? Gosh, no, this administration isn't vendictive or petty toward people who embarras them publicly.
Sadly, much like the Tillman case, I'm sure that there we will be no investigation to determine whether this was an unfortunate accident.
It is an awful big coincidence, but without more facts, I can't do anything but speculate..
Much like the Tillman case, perphaps we will see army lawyers congratulating each other that no criminal investiagation was launched.
Can anyone dig up details of this supposed accident?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:14 amA war is lost when your military is not allowed to capture OBL but instead OBL is allowed to escape. OBL was ready to commit suicide and our military was ordered to stand down. Bush ?
September 13th, 2007 at 10:11 amA war is lost when the citizens of the ruined country beg you to leave. 71 % Iraqis want us out.
Honor is saving the rest of our military from the greed and corruption of Bush and his supporters.
#5, Betraeus, the general who commands after every other general who exhibited common sense and a willingness to speak their mind was fired? The general called by his superior an "ass-kissing chickensh*t"? More credibility? You make me sick, scumbag.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:28 pm