Comments on: Cornyn Embraces Bush’s Plan For Iraq, Earlier Criticized Warner’s Same Proposal As ‘Curious’ http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:15:45 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: hterrya http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4079301 hterrya Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:23:48 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4079301 I am sorry to say that Cornyn is the Senator from my State, Texas. Hutchison is the other Senator, which means I am effectively unrepresented in the U.S. Senate. Sad. I am sorry to say that Cornyn is the Senator from my State, Texas. Hutchison is the other Senator, which means I am effectively unrepresented in the U.S. Senate. Sad.

]]> By: Lynne Kringler http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078772 Lynne Kringler Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:13:53 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078772 I was seeing C.I.A. reports, which were passed on to MI6, which had been extracted from the Uzbek torture chambers. I had been there for two or three months, which was long enough to know that, effectively, any Uzbek political or religious detainee is going to be tortured. There’s no question of definition here. You know, we’re not talking about ‘Is that or is that not torture?’ We’re talking about people having their fingernails pulled, having their teeth smashed with hammers, having their limbs broken, and being raped with objects, including broken bottles; both male and female rape, extremely common in Uzbek prisons. And from the security service, which was operating right alongside the C.I.A., we were getting this intelligence. Yeah keven and bigfoot, just like the witches iof Salem, torture them and they will confess and name any one you want. You are crazy and not realizing the dead that we have killed WITH TORTURE. You are also ignoring the fact that these are SUSPECTS not even indicted let alone convicted. No lawyer, no jury, no judge and no verdict. Some turned in by their enemies, some for bounty and some for petty feuds. An Iraqi general turns himself in to the Americans and is beaten, stuffed upside down into a sleeping bag and suffocated to death. What does the American officer get? 60 days 'in house' detention', after he turns on the Jimmy Swaggert tears and begs to be able to see his kids every day at home. Torturers ar chicken shit, crybaby, bullies. I was seeing C.I.A. reports, which were passed on to MI6, which had been extracted from the Uzbek torture chambers.

I had been there for two or three months, which was long enough to know that, effectively, any Uzbek political or religious detainee is going to be tortured. There’s no question of definition here. You know, we’re not talking about ‘Is that or is that not torture?’ We’re talking about people having their fingernails pulled, having their teeth smashed with hammers, having their limbs broken, and being raped with objects, including broken bottles; both male and female rape, extremely common in Uzbek prisons. And from the security service, which was operating right alongside the C.I.A., we were getting this intelligence.

Yeah keven and bigfoot, just like the witches iof Salem, torture them and they will confess and name any one you want. You are crazy and not realizing the dead that we have killed WITH TORTURE. You are also ignoring the fact that these are SUSPECTS not even indicted let alone convicted. No lawyer, no jury, no judge and no verdict. Some turned in by their enemies, some for bounty and some for petty feuds. An Iraqi general turns himself in to the Americans and is beaten, stuffed upside down into a sleeping bag and suffocated to death. What does the American officer get? 60 days ‘in house’ detention’, after he turns on the Jimmy Swaggert tears and begs to be able to see his kids every day at home.

Torturers ar chicken shit, crybaby, bullies.

]]> By: Lynne Kringler http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078763 Lynne Kringler Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:02:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078763 CRAIG MURRAY: Well, the first thing I did was make a speech, openly pointing out the abuses, which hadn't been done for many years. When I arrived, one of the things you have to do as a new ambassador is call on your fellow ambassadors, pay courtesy calls. And I kept saying to them, you know, to the French, the German, the Italian: “This is awful. It’s terrible what's happening here. There are thousands of people being rounded up in prisons, tortured, killed, disappeared, and it all seems to have the backing of the U.S.A.” And they said to me absolutely straight, they said, “Yes, but we don't mention that. You know, President Karimov is an important ally of George Bush in the war on terror, so there’s an unspoken agreement that we keep quiet about the abuses.” I decided not to do that and so went very public, making a speech outlining the abuses and drawing international attention to them. I was seeing C.I.A. reports, which were passed on to MI6, which had been extracted from the Uzbek torture chambers. I had been there for two or three months, which was long enough to know that, effectively, any Uzbek political or religious detainee is going to be tortured. There's no question of definition here. You know, we're not talking about ‘Is that or is that not torture?’ We're talking about people having their fingernails pulled, having their teeth smashed with hammers, having their limbs broken, and being raped with objects, including broken bottles; both male and female rape, extremely common in Uzbek prisons. And from the security service, which was operating right alongside the C.I.A., we were getting this intelligence. AMY GOODMAN: Another country highlighted in the Human Rights Watch report is Uzbekistan, the former Soviet republic that sits in Central Asia, north of Afghanistan. The report accuses Uzbekistan of having a “disastrous human rights record.” Three weeks ago, the former British ambassador to the country, Craig Murray, defied Britain's Official Secrets Act by posting a series of classified memos that he wrote from his days in Uzbekistan, which up until recently was a close U.S. ally. Fearing that the British government would shut down his website, Murray encouraged other website owners to republish the materials on their sites. Hundreds have since taken up the call. In one classified memo from July 2004, Ambassador Murray wrote, “We receive intelligence obtained under torture from the Uzbek intelligence services via the U.S. We should stop... This is morally, legally, and practically wrong.” A summary of Craig Murray’s memos read, “The U.S. plays down human rights situation in Uzbekistan. A dangerous policy: increasing repression combined with poverty will promote Islamic terrorism.” In another secret memo, Murray estimated the Uzbek government was holding up to 10,000 political and religious prisoners. AMY GOODMAN: Boiled to death? CRAIG MURRAY: Yeah, it was one of the first cases I came across, back in August or September of 2002. Two Muslim prisoners in Jaslyk gulag, which is an old Soviet gulag in the middle of the Karakum Desert, a sort of forced-labor camp, a terrible place where people are sent to die, effectively, two Islamic prisoners were boiled to death. They died of immersion in boiling water. The mother of one of the prisoners received her son's body back in a sealed casket, was ordered not to open the casket, and just to bury it the next morning. Despite being in her sixties, she managed to get the casket open in the middle of the night, even though police were guarding the house outside. She got the body onto the kitchen table and took a series of detailed photos, which she got to the British embassy. I sent them back to London -- or, in fact, to Scotland, to the University of Glasgow, the pathology department. On the basis of these detailed photos, they did an autopsy report, in which they said that he had had his fingernails extracted, he had been severely beaten, particularly about the face, and he died of immersion in boiling liquid. And it was immersion, rather than splashing, because there is a clear tide mark around the upper torso and arms, which gives you some idea of the level of brutality of this regime. AMY GOODMAN: Did you have evidence of C.I.A. or other U.S. or British or other government officials in the torture chambers with the intelligence or prison officials in Uzbekistan torturing people? CRAIG MURRAY: No, I don't think they ever did that, and I think they carefully avoided it. There is a fabric of deniability over the whole thing. They don't go actually into the torture chamber. They receive the intelligence that comes out of the torture chamber, but they don't enter it. AMY GOODMAN: Now, you say that this president, President Bush's relationship with Karimov in the Uzbek regime goes way back, and one of the links is Enron. Can you elaborate more on this? CRAIG MURRAY: Yes. Enron cut a deal with Uzbekistan to exploit Uzbekistan's natural gas reserves. Central Asia has the largest untapped reserves of oil and gas in the world. Uzbekistan doesn’t have much oil; it has a terrific amount of natural gas. And Uzbekistan dominates Central Asia. It has half the population of the whole region. It has, by far, the biggest army and the most muscle. So Uzbekistan was key to the energy policy, and that's why Enron and Halliburton and all of the companies you very much associate with the Bush administration were in there plugging this policy of staying close to Karimov. And that’s why he was such a welcome guest in the White House. ............ But the wellspring of the whole policy of the United States was the ruthless pursuit of sectional oil and gas interests, and that originated with Enron. Obviously, once Enron collapsed, those interests passed on to other U.S. companies. AMY GOODMAN: Like? CRAIG MURRAY: Basically other major oil companies. But the sad thing, or the ironic thing, I suppose is the way to put it, is that ultimately the policy didn't work, because having given probably about $1 billion over a three-year period and having even supported the Uzbek government at the time of the Andijan massacre, when the rest of the world was expressing outrage. The Uzbeks eventually cut a deal with Gazprom of Russia, and the United States then got kicked out of Uzbekistan very unceremoniously. They didn't leave. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/19/1452237 CRAIG MURRAY: Well, the first thing I did was make a speech, openly pointing out the abuses, which hadn’t been done for many years. When I arrived, one of the things you have to do as a new ambassador is call on your fellow ambassadors, pay courtesy calls. And I kept saying to them, you know, to the French, the German, the Italian: “This is awful. It’s terrible what’s happening here. There are thousands of people being rounded up in prisons, tortured, killed, disappeared, and it all seems to have the backing of the U.S.A.”

And they said to me absolutely straight, they said, “Yes, but we don’t mention that. You know, President Karimov is an important ally of George Bush in the war on terror, so there’s an unspoken agreement that we keep quiet about the abuses.” I decided not to do that and so went very public, making a speech outlining the abuses and drawing international attention to them.

I was seeing C.I.A. reports, which were passed on to MI6, which had been extracted from the Uzbek torture chambers.

I had been there for two or three months, which was long enough to know that, effectively, any Uzbek political or religious detainee is going to be tortured. There’s no question of definition here. You know, we’re not talking about ‘Is that or is that not torture?’ We’re talking about people having their fingernails pulled, having their teeth smashed with hammers, having their limbs broken, and being raped with objects, including broken bottles; both male and female rape, extremely common in Uzbek prisons. And from the security service, which was operating right alongside the C.I.A., we were getting this intelligence.

AMY GOODMAN: Another country highlighted in the Human Rights Watch report is Uzbekistan, the former Soviet republic that sits in Central Asia, north of Afghanistan. The report accuses Uzbekistan of having a “disastrous human rights record.” Three weeks ago, the former British ambassador to the country, Craig Murray, defied Britain’s Official Secrets Act by posting a series of classified memos that he wrote from his days in Uzbekistan, which up until recently was a close U.S. ally. Fearing that the British government would shut down his website, Murray encouraged other website owners to republish the materials on their sites. Hundreds have since taken up the call.

In one classified memo from July 2004, Ambassador Murray wrote, “We receive intelligence obtained under torture from the Uzbek intelligence services via the U.S. We should stop… This is morally, legally, and practically wrong.” A summary of Craig Murray’s memos read, “The U.S. plays down human rights situation in Uzbekistan. A dangerous policy: increasing repression combined with poverty will promote Islamic terrorism.” In another secret memo, Murray estimated the Uzbek government was holding up to 10,000 political and religious prisoners.

AMY GOODMAN: Boiled to death?

CRAIG MURRAY: Yeah, it was one of the first cases I came across, back in August or September of 2002. Two Muslim prisoners in Jaslyk gulag, which is an old Soviet gulag in the middle of the Karakum Desert, a sort of forced-labor camp, a terrible place where people are sent to die, effectively, two Islamic prisoners were boiled to death. They died of immersion in boiling water. The mother of one of the prisoners received her son’s body back in a sealed casket, was ordered not to open the casket, and just to bury it the next morning. Despite being in her sixties, she managed to get the casket open in the middle of the night, even though police were guarding the house outside.

She got the body onto the kitchen table and took a series of detailed photos, which she got to the British embassy. I sent them back to London — or, in fact, to Scotland, to the University of Glasgow, the pathology department. On the basis of these detailed photos, they did an autopsy report, in which they said that he had had his fingernails extracted, he had been severely beaten, particularly about the face, and he died of immersion in boiling liquid. And it was immersion, rather than splashing, because there is a clear tide mark around the upper torso and arms, which gives you some idea of the level of brutality of this regime.

AMY GOODMAN: Did you have evidence of C.I.A. or other U.S. or British or other government officials in the torture chambers with the intelligence or prison officials in Uzbekistan torturing people?

CRAIG MURRAY: No, I don’t think they ever did that, and I think they carefully avoided it. There is a fabric of deniability over the whole thing. They don’t go actually into the torture chamber. They receive the intelligence that comes out of the torture chamber, but they don’t enter it.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, you say that this president, President Bush’s relationship with Karimov in the Uzbek regime goes way back, and one of the links is Enron. Can you elaborate more on this?

CRAIG MURRAY: Yes. Enron cut a deal with Uzbekistan to exploit Uzbekistan’s natural gas reserves. Central Asia has the largest untapped reserves of oil and gas in the world. Uzbekistan doesn’t have much oil; it has a terrific amount of natural gas. And Uzbekistan dominates Central Asia. It has half the population of the whole region. It has, by far, the biggest army and the most muscle. So Uzbekistan was key to the energy policy, and that’s why Enron and Halliburton and all of the companies you very much associate with the Bush administration were in there plugging this policy of staying close to Karimov. And that’s why he was such a welcome guest in the White House. …………

But the wellspring of the whole policy of the United States was the ruthless pursuit of sectional oil and gas interests, and that originated with Enron. Obviously, once Enron collapsed, those interests passed on to other U.S. companies.

AMY GOODMAN: Like?

CRAIG MURRAY: Basically other major oil companies. But the sad thing, or the ironic thing, I suppose is the way to put it, is that ultimately the policy didn’t work, because having given probably about $1 billion over a three-year period and having even supported the Uzbek government at the time of the Andijan massacre, when the rest of the world was expressing outrage. The Uzbeks eventually cut a deal with Gazprom of Russia, and the United States then got kicked out of Uzbekistan very unceremoniously. They didn’t leave.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/19/1452237

]]> By: the Nutty Crunch Christ http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078159 the Nutty Crunch Christ Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:31:48 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078159 >Who is against fighting AQ in Iraq anyways? If we executed everyone who lived in a trailer park (like many Bush supporters), there would be less incest in america. Who is against less incest in america, anyway? > And most of what Khalid Sheik Mohammed > has given his captors turned out to be good info that > saved lives, period. Whose lives? What attacks? Cite? All the people that Padilla was planning to irradiate with the stuff scraped off 1 million glow in the dark watches? lol! In any case, these "ticking timebomb" scenarios are so ridiculously rare that bringing them up serves no purpose but emotional blackmail to try and convince people we should torture first and ask questions later. Torture should be illegal, period. In the ultra-rare hypothetical case that someone does truly save many lives by torturing someone, what jury is going to convict the torturer? They arent. Period. This wonderful and wholly legitimate concept of jury nullification serves as a legitimate way for "just torturers" to escape punishment for what would otherwise be an illegal act. In all honesty, you probably couldnt even find a prosecutor to prosecute such a hero. The legal defense known as "necessity" could also be legitimately raised, unless the person was tortured to death. However, if torture is legalized as a general rule, then leaders can order it at the drop of a hat, and soon people are being tortured for nothing resembling a good reason. If you make torture illegal, those who order it would be jailed for criminal conspiracy if they begin to abuse the practice and start torturing everyone will nilly, as was done in abu gharib. If torture is in any way legal, a goverment policy of torture can be enacted and carried out with impunity. They can start a policy that says "torture everyone we have suspicions about" and nothing could be done about it. Legalizing something allows leaders to make it an institution instead of the rare but necesarry exception.... However, I dont expect ignorant rednecks like yourself to be able to get you mind around concepts like jury nullification and its place in our judicial system.... my advice to spend less time breeding and more time thinking but im sure that advice will fall on deaf ears.. >Who is against fighting AQ in Iraq anyways?

If we executed everyone who lived in a trailer park (like many Bush supporters), there would be less incest in america.

Who is against less incest in america, anyway?

> And most of what Khalid Sheik Mohammed
> has given his captors turned out to be good info that
> saved lives, period.

Whose lives? What attacks? Cite? All the people that Padilla was planning to irradiate with the stuff scraped off 1 million glow in the dark watches? lol!

In any case, these “ticking timebomb” scenarios are so ridiculously rare that bringing them up serves no purpose but emotional blackmail to try and convince people we should torture first and ask questions later.

Torture should be illegal, period. In the ultra-rare hypothetical case that someone does truly save many lives by torturing someone, what jury is going to convict the torturer? They arent. Period. This wonderful and wholly legitimate concept of jury nullification serves as a legitimate way for “just torturers” to escape punishment for what would otherwise be an illegal act. In all honesty, you probably couldnt even find a prosecutor to prosecute such a hero. The legal defense known as “necessity” could also be legitimately raised, unless the person was tortured to death.

However, if torture is legalized as a general rule, then leaders can order it at the drop of a hat, and soon people are being tortured for nothing resembling a good reason. If you make torture illegal, those who order it would be jailed for criminal conspiracy if they begin to abuse the practice and start torturing everyone will nilly, as was done in abu gharib. If torture is in any way legal, a goverment policy of torture can be enacted and carried out with impunity. They can start a policy that says “torture everyone we have suspicions about” and nothing could be done about it. Legalizing something allows leaders to make it an institution instead of the rare but necesarry exception….

However, I dont expect ignorant rednecks like yourself to be able to get you mind around concepts like jury nullification and its place in our judicial system…. my advice to spend less time breeding and more time thinking but im sure that advice will fall on deaf ears..

]]> By: bernarda http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078131 bernarda Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:12:54 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078131 Cornyn is another typical Rethuglican Chickenhawk. He was born in 1952, so he was 18 in 1970. No mention of him joining Richard Nixon's "surge" in Vietnam. Though they are total reactionaries, about the only Republicans who have any credibility for their stand on the Iraq war are John McCain and Duncan Hunter(my nomination for the dumbest Rep congressman). They both actually served and have sons serving. Cornyn is another typical Rethuglican Chickenhawk. He was born in 1952, so he was 18 in 1970. No mention of him joining Richard Nixon’s “surge” in Vietnam.

Though they are total reactionaries, about the only Republicans who have any credibility for their stand on the Iraq war are John McCain and Duncan Hunter(my nomination for the dumbest Rep congressman). They both actually served and have sons serving.

]]> By: O. Bigfoot http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078103 O. Bigfoot Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:45:18 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078103 "The purpose then in torturing would be in gathering useful intelligence that furthers the efficacy of the process of preventing terrorist activities. It doesn’t. I can hook you up with any number of military or intelligence professionals that will tell you that the person being tortured will say ANYTHING to make it stop. Remember Khalid Sheik Mohammed? He confessed to everything from the Kennedy assasination to the Death of Disco.... Comment by Gregg aus Austin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:56 am" And most of what Khalid Sheik Mohammed has given his captors turned out to be good info that saved lives, period. Proper interrogation techniques work, and any number of military and intelligence sources will confirm that. What you consider torture: Loud music, sleep deprivation, extreme room temperature, even waterboarding, are really psychological in nature. There is no real physical harm done. I suppose we can always leave the interrogation of our enemies to our middle eastern allies, if you can live with the idea of a lot of folks walking around sans an eye, finger, hand...or simply dissapearing forever. That is where our information will be coming from if the bleeding heart libs have their way. Then we can all feel good about the fact that the United States doesn't use any methods of forced interrogation, and simply try not to think about where our intelligence comes from. “The purpose then in torturing would be in gathering useful intelligence that furthers the efficacy of the process of preventing terrorist activities. It doesn’t. I can hook you up with any number of military or intelligence professionals that will tell you that the person being tortured will say ANYTHING to make it stop. Remember Khalid Sheik Mohammed? He confessed to everything from the Kennedy assasination to the Death of Disco….
Comment by Gregg aus Austin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:56 am”

And most of what Khalid Sheik Mohammed has given his captors turned out to be good info that saved lives, period. Proper interrogation techniques work, and any number of military and intelligence sources will confirm that.

What you consider torture: Loud music, sleep deprivation, extreme room temperature, even waterboarding, are really psychological in nature. There is no real physical harm done.

I suppose we can always leave the interrogation of our enemies to our middle eastern allies, if you can live with the idea of a lot of folks walking around sans an eye, finger, hand…or simply dissapearing forever. That is where our information will be coming from if the bleeding heart libs have their way. Then we can all feel good about the fact that the United States doesn’t use any methods of forced interrogation, and simply try not to think about where our intelligence comes from.

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078100 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:20:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078100 Cornyn doesn't realize that there are more of US than Him! Cornyn doesn’t realize that there are more of US than Him!

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078095 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:59:55 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078095 Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that? Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:28 am Ok, so the paradigm is Radical Islam. How did we get to that point? Of course, by following the instructions of the Zionist Radical Right which is interested in cultivating hatred against Muslims. You know what: FU, I'm not buying! Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that?

Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:28 am

Ok, so the paradigm is Radical Islam. How did we get to that point? Of course, by following the instructions of the Zionist Radical Right which is interested in cultivating hatred against Muslims. You know what: FU, I’m not buying!

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078082 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:07:47 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078082 get rid of the 20 million iillegal in the country so that more jobs are available Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:54 am The jobs that they do you would't even dream of doing. When was the last time you picked tomatoes and carrots, cleaned toilets or spent 8 hours under the sun fixing a roof? If you kicked them all out, you wouldn't be able to survive, stupid. What's wrong with a chance to become regular citizens? They pay taxes anyway. What's the matter? Don't you like the sound of Spanish? It was here before Americanish, learn your history! get rid of the 20 million iillegal in the country so that more jobs are available

Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:54 am

The jobs that they do you would’t even dream of doing. When was the last time you picked tomatoes and carrots, cleaned toilets or spent 8 hours under the sun fixing a roof? If you kicked them all out, you wouldn’t be able to survive, stupid. What’s wrong with a chance to become regular citizens? They pay taxes anyway. What’s the matter? Don’t you like the sound of Spanish? It was here before Americanish, learn your history!

]]> By: Gregg aus Austin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078079 Gregg aus Austin Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:56:56 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078079 lynne you are an idiota. torture is a good thing, do you really think if we never tortured anyone that this would prevent a terroist from not torturing an american- this is naive. Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that? Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:28 am No, Kevin you are an idiot. You are a perfectly tragic example of how debased we have become. For the sake of argument let's assume that torture actually works. The purpose then in torturing would be in gathering useful intelligence that furthers the efficacy of the process of preventing terrorist activities. It doesn't. I can hook you up with any number of military or intelligence professionals that will tell you that the person being tortured will say ANYTHING to make it stop. Remember Khalid Sheik Mohammed? He confessed to everything from the Kennedy assasination to the Death of Disco. What you are illustrating to everyone by saying, "torture is a good thing," is an inherent cowardice and sense of blind vengeance better suited to those you profess to be your enemies. Torture is licking the boot of evil. And you should crawl into a corner in shame if you truly believe that it is a "good thing." And stay out of our way while we make things right again. Dumbass. lynne you are an idiota. torture is a good thing, do you really think if we never tortured anyone that this would prevent a terroist from not torturing an american- this is naive. Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that?

Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:28 am

No, Kevin you are an idiot. You are a perfectly tragic example of how debased we have become. For the sake of argument let’s assume that torture actually works. The purpose then in torturing would be in gathering useful intelligence that furthers the efficacy of the process of preventing terrorist activities. It doesn’t. I can hook you up with any number of military or intelligence professionals that will tell you that the person being tortured will say ANYTHING to make it stop. Remember Khalid Sheik Mohammed? He confessed to everything from the Kennedy assasination to the Death of Disco. What you are illustrating to everyone by saying, “torture is a good thing,” is an inherent cowardice and sense of blind vengeance better suited to those you profess to be your enemies. Torture is licking the boot of evil. And you should crawl into a corner in shame if you truly believe that it is a “good thing.” And stay out of our way while we make things right again. Dumbass.

]]> By: kevin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078078 kevin Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:54:11 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078078 Those who would not: Are they trying to work but no work is available? What do they do? get rid of the 20 million iillegal in the country so that more jobs are available Those who would not: Are they trying to work but no work is available? What do they do?

get rid of the 20 million iillegal in the country so that more jobs are available

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078074 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:36:22 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078074 –Thomas Jefferson Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:16 am Those who are willing to work: if they have a job and it if has not been outsourced in order to make make MORE money for the Corporation. Those who would not: Are they trying to work but no work is available? What do they do? Jefferson was right! –Thomas Jefferson

Comment by kevin — September 15, 2007 @ 12:16 am

Those who are willing to work: if they have a job and it if has not been outsourced in order to make make MORE money for the Corporation.
Those who would not: Are they trying to work but no work is available? What do they do?

Jefferson was right!

]]> By: kevin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078072 kevin Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:28:23 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078072 This list just about says it all. They have no humanity or shame. Just like their ‘decider’. They agree with everything bushco does because it makes them very wealthy and when you sell your soul to the devil, it’s all about money and power. Comment by Lynne Kringler lynne you are an idiota. torture is a good thing, do you really think if we never tortured anyone that this would prevent a terroist from not torturing an american- this is naive. Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that? This list just about says it all.
They have no humanity or shame. Just like their ‘decider’. They agree with everything bushco does because it makes them very wealthy and when you sell your soul to the devil, it’s all about money and power.

Comment by Lynne Kringler

lynne you are an idiota. torture is a good thing, do you really think if we never tortured anyone that this would prevent a terroist from not torturing an american- this is naive. Radical islam says convert or die, do we want to live in a society like that?

]]> By: kevin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078066 kevin Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:16:45 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078066 The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
–Thomas Jefferson

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078057 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:04:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078057 God help us get of the Hell he’s created….. Comment by Gregg aus Austin — September 14, 2007 @ 11:36 pm The first people getting off that Hell he's created will be 20, 30+ American soldiers, just like my sons and nephews. Yes, I'm all for it! God help us get of the Hell he’s created…..

Comment by Gregg aus Austin — September 14, 2007 @ 11:36 pm

The first people getting off that Hell he’s created will be 20, 30+ American soldiers, just like my sons and nephews. Yes, I’m all for it!

]]> By: big papa http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078054 big papa Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:55:55 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078054 The privilege of the few... ...is made possible ONLY... ...through the complicity and subornation of many... ...the criminal Bushite junta and their kind... ...thrive because sociopathic, psychotic, demonic White male hegemonists/supremacists, their lowly subordinate females... ...self-loathing ill-educated minority wannabes, and greedy international profiteers... ...aid and abet their inhumanity, hypocrisy, and insanity... ...profiting off the suffering of others... ...the Hindu believe that we are in the Age of Darkness... ...where only thieves, murderers and liars profit... ...seems they may have something... The privilege of the few…

…is made possible ONLY…

…through the complicity and subornation of many…

…the criminal Bushite junta and their kind…

…thrive because sociopathic, psychotic, demonic White male hegemonists/supremacists, their lowly subordinate females…

…self-loathing ill-educated minority wannabes, and greedy international profiteers…

…aid and abet their inhumanity, hypocrisy, and insanity…

…profiting off the suffering of others…

…the Hindu believe that we are in the Age of Darkness…

…where only thieves, murderers and liars profit…

…seems they may have something…

]]> By: Gregg aus Austin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078049 Gregg aus Austin Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:36:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078049 Comment by JoeCaribe — September 14, 2007 @ 11:10 pm Hey, no problem. Apology accepted. I understand. It's hard to not have palpable disgust with any and everything associated with that sorry sack o' shit. Just remember we've had almost 14 years down here looking at that damn smirk. God help us get of the Hell he's created..... Comment by JoeCaribe — September 14, 2007 @ 11:10 pm

Hey, no problem. Apology accepted. I understand. It’s hard to not have palpable disgust with any and everything associated with that sorry sack o’ shit. Just remember we’ve had almost 14 years down here looking at that damn smirk. God help us get of the Hell he’s created…..

]]> By: JoeCaribe http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078048 JoeCaribe Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:34:47 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078048 and when you sell your soul to the devil, it’s all about money and power. Comment by Lynne Kringler — September 14, 2007 @ 11:16 pm Agreed! Is that all there is to it? Do we give up without a fight? Tell me, please. and when you sell your soul to the devil, it’s all about money and power.

Comment by Lynne Kringler — September 14, 2007 @ 11:16 pm

Agreed! Is that all there is to it? Do we give up without a fight? Tell me, please.

]]> By: ipod http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078045 ipod Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:31:21 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078045 roger roger - please tell me why people like you are so gullible now that when you hear the word iraq,you have visions of al qaeda as a force of millions?? - you really have swallowed everything bush and co have forced down your throats haven't you? - iraq=alqaeda=9/11 and round it goes - and you can bet that like inhofe and cornyn,every repub in the nation will be lining up heaping praise on bush over the next month or so ( no surprises there ) and people like roger roger and jake et al will keep on lapping it up.....idiots roger roger – please tell me why people like you are so gullible now that when you hear the word iraq,you have visions of al qaeda as a force of millions?? – you really have swallowed everything bush and co have forced down your throats haven’t you? – iraq=alqaeda=9/11 and round it goes – and you can bet that like inhofe and cornyn,every repub in the nation will be lining up heaping praise on bush over the next month or so ( no surprises there ) and people like roger roger and jake et al will keep on lapping it up…..idiots

]]> By: Lynne Kringler http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/comment-page-2/#comment-4078035 Lynne Kringler Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:16:49 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/cornyn-warner-iraq/#comment-4078035 Bush did a signing statement that says that he will continue to torture if and when he wants to. These senators wanted to continue torture. Stevens (R) AK Sessions (R) Ala Allard (R) Colorado Pat Roberts (R) KS Bond (R) MO Cochran (R) MS Colburn (R) OK Inhofe (R) OK Cornyn (R) TX This list just about says it all. They have no humanity or shame. Just like their 'decider'. They agree with everything bushco does because it makes them very wealthy and when you sell your soul to the devil, it's all about money and power. Bush did a signing statement that says that he will continue to torture if and when he wants to.

These senators wanted to continue torture.

Stevens (R) AK
Sessions (R) Ala
Allard (R) Colorado
Pat Roberts (R) KS
Bond (R) MO
Cochran (R) MS
Colburn (R) OK
Inhofe (R) OK
Cornyn (R) TX

This list just about says it all.
They have no humanity or shame. Just like their ‘decider’. They agree with everything bushco does because it makes them very wealthy and when you sell your soul to the devil, it’s all about money and power.

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